Latest / Deadly Intentions / Vault 7: How Joshua Schulte Stole the CIA’s Secret Hacking Tools

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Vault 7: How Joshua Schulte Stole the CIA’s Secret Hacking Tools · Deadly Intentions

• 0:01
  This was the most devastating leak in American history.
• 0:07
  He's already transferred everything over to Wickley. 34
• 0:09
  terabytes of pretty much every in and out the CIA's ever
• 0:13
  planned or thinking about planning.
• 0:14
  His actions cost the agency hundreds of millions of dollars.
• 0:17
  They characterized it as a digital Pearl Harbor.
• 0:24
  Joshua Schultz was assigned to the CI as operation support
• 0:33
  branch. And this is an elite unit that
• 0:39
  to the extent there's guys that are, you know, quintessential
• 0:42
  James Bond Q division where they come up with like really clever
• 0:45
  type by hacking type tools. This is this is those guys.
• 0:51
  This is. I know that you have not seen
• 0:53
  it, but this is right up. What there's a there's a there's
• 0:56
  a series called Lioness and it's kind of it's off.
• 1:00
  It's all built upon the most elite division of the CIA or
• 1:04
  they even are like at at times deputize deputized by the FBI.
• 1:09
  They can be an FBI agent, they can be ACIA agent like the.
• 1:13
  Normally, people will associate generally referred to as like
• 1:16
  signals intelligence with the NSA.
• 1:19
  You know, it was Edward Snowden, who was a contractor for the
• 1:21
  NSA, who had leaked the disclosure of a program that the
• 1:26
  numerous programs the NSA were running where they were
• 1:28
  essentially intercepting every communication in the world, like
• 1:32
  every e-mail in the United States, every phone call, every
• 1:35
  text. We have that.
• 1:36
  I mean, we have. Well, sure, that's what Snowden
• 1:38
  revealed. Now, of course Snowden did.
• 1:42
  So irrespective of how you view what he did, it was from his
• 1:45
  perspective a principled disclosure.
• 1:48
  He's saying, hey, looking like the American public needs to.
• 1:50
  Know they need to know this. Because they don't.
• 1:52
  They didn't know this. And he revealed something that
• 1:54
  to create a constitutional crisis, saying, hey, look,
• 1:57
  there's massive spying going on, and obviously he didn't want to
• 2:02
  go to prison. He fled.
• 2:04
  Is he still in London? Or no, he's in Russia.
• 2:06
  He's in Russia. That's.
• 2:07
  Right, so he. He well, well Russia takes note
• 2:09
  and said come on in bro, come on in.
• 2:12
  Well, and they can't touch him in Russia, can they be?
• 2:15
  We can't get in there. No.
• 2:16
  And so now the the notion of the principled disclosure, the
• 2:24
  leaker is something that is not uncommon.
• 2:26
  You know, earlier, a couple generations ago, we had Daniel
• 2:30
  Ellsberg with the New York Times and Washington Post leaking at
• 2:33
  the Pentagon Papers letting the American public know that, hey,
• 2:36
  the government's lying about the war in Vietnam.
• 2:38
  And so we've had instances where you had principled individuals,
• 2:42
  they may have been misguided. But they always came from the
• 2:45
  journalist side, right? They never came from the within
• 2:48
  side or they did we ever have some guys within like this guy
• 2:51
  is Acia well. Sure.
• 2:52
  No. Snowden himself was a contractor
• 2:54
  with the NSA, OK, And Ellsberg himself was involved with
• 2:59
  whatever division he was in. But he actually had access to
• 3:01
  this classified information that he leaked.
• 3:04
  And so the government only will prosecute these individuals for
• 3:07
  leaking the information. That's not Schultz.
• 3:12
  Schultz was with respect to the CIA, you had this division where
• 3:17
  you have the science and like Technology Directorate and
• 3:21
  within there you've got different bureaus and he was
• 3:24
  part of what was referred to as the OSB, which is the operation
• 3:26
  support branch. So while the NSA is intercepting
• 3:28
  signals electronically, these are the guys that create the
• 3:34
  hack, what they refer to as exploits for human based
• 3:39
  operations. So for instance, if you wanted
• 3:41
  to get into a general's computer, like not hooked up to
• 3:46
  the Internet, referred to as air gapped, well, you're going to
• 3:49
  have to have an asset. Maybe the guy's chef, maybe the
• 3:52
  guy's driver, maybe the guy's security.
• 3:54
  Personnel. Somebody who's going to be able
• 3:56
  to take what's effectively like a thumb drive, load up the
• 3:59
  malware and. Put it in.
• 4:02
  Yeah, little load it up, two seconds out, boom, gone.
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  So now. Like you said, it could be a
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  chef, it could be a gardener, it could be a security personnel.
• 4:09
  Sure. And so there was numerous
• 4:11
  different hacking. These are like the cyber
• 4:15
  offensive arsenal. Now, what type of training would
• 4:18
  a guy like Schultz have to go through in order, like, to be a
• 4:21
  part of the CIA with a deep, deep, deep, you know, he.
• 4:24
  Was an electrical engineer with a specialty in computer
• 4:30
  engineering so he started off as a software programmer and he was
• 4:34
  ultimately college obviously certainly yes and he ultimately
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  he was promoted to being a systems engineer so he had what
• 4:42
  are referred to as administrator privileges.
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  And so he's going to have access to everything within her
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  developmental network referred to as Devlin.
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  And so by having this by, you know, he's obviously entrusted
• 4:57
  with a tremendous amount of responsibility.
• 4:59
  And this is where later on when the whole thing blew up, the CIA
• 5:04
  had to go back. Conductor after action report.
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  How many years did it take the CIA to investigate?
• 5:10
  This they didn't even know that he had looted the material.
• 5:13
  Well, First things first, he with respect to the CIA, they
• 5:20
  had this specific operation support branch that created all
• 5:24
  these gizmos essentially for their hacking exploits.
• 5:28
  Now you're essentially talking about young guys, like when he
• 5:32
  went to work for them, he was a 22 year old kid.
• 5:34
  Right, he's a young guy. By by by by 24, he's already
• 5:40
  advancing. He's already almost a senior
• 5:45
  level operative at the age of 27.
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  And So what you have is. A well plus, I mean, I'm
• 5:52
  assuming if you're that sharp and you have that skill set that
• 5:56
  you can quickly escalate within the government, you know, they
• 5:58
  know we got a good one here. Like we know we got a pretty
• 6:02
  sharp 1 here. And he was.
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  He was perceived as being one of their most sophisticated
• 6:06
  programmers. So with that, you probably get
• 6:08
  escalated pretty quickly, you know?
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  Everybody in that division. So I'm assuming that that that
• 6:14
  that Joshua is, you know, brilliant when it comes to the
• 6:18
  skill skill set of being a. But again.
• 6:21
  Now would he be considered like a hacker or more of a spy or
• 6:23
  kind of? Well, certainly.
• 6:25
  Well, he's on the technical side, so yes, he'd be, well,
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  what they would characterize as the systems engineer, but in
• 6:32
  reality, he was essentially a hacker.
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  And the CIA bought into the Silicon Valley myth that often
• 6:44
  times the most talented programmers, and this is
• 6:47
  actually true. These are guys who tend to be a
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  little bit on the spectrum, people who have an element of
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  neuro divergent. Neuro diversions.
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  It's a Pete word for you. Neuro diversions for us stupid
• 7:03
  guys. What does that mean, Pete?
• 7:05
  People that are on the spectrum and so like I'm on the spectrum
• 7:10
  with on the Asperger's side, but there are as it progresses and
• 7:15
  so is. That what makes you so
• 7:17
  brilliant, Pete, is that you're just you.
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  Know No, because I miss I miss a lot of social cues.
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  But there's other things that you're honed in on that sure, of
• 7:25
  course every person is not. Yeah, your ability to focus and
• 7:28
  get deeply into something, whereas I couldn't, I couldn't
• 7:33
  change oil on a car for parole. Yeah, for parole.
• 7:37
  I bet you if they said, Pete, you're done with parole
• 7:40
  tomorrow, if you can change your soil, you'd be on YouTube with,
• 7:43
  with, with a, with a Crescent Ridge figuring it out.
• 7:46
  I promise you that bro. And so they bought into that
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  myth, you know, because in Silicon Valley, of course, it's
• 7:51
  famous that they'll have like rock climbing walls and
• 7:54
  meditation rooms and 20 minute nap rooms, little yeah, power
• 7:57
  nap rooms and stuff like that. And so like aromatherapy, they
• 8:00
  wanted to 1 be able. These are individuals who have a
• 8:03
  high skill set, so they could easily be recruited or any one
• 8:06
  of these other companies. And so they had to compete in
• 8:08
  the marketplace, and so they had to.
• 8:10
  And it's, it's high paying too. I mean, it's not, you're not
• 8:12
  talking about, you know, 15 an hour here.
• 8:14
  No, these guys are starting at, you know, 200,000.
• 8:17
  That's that's a good job you. Know and start start at 200
• 8:20
  starting at 200 G that doesn't and drug.
• 8:22
  Dealing might be better, but not.
• 8:24
  Mine that doesn't include all the perks.
• 8:25
  Well, you'd have to worry about the 30 piece hanging over your
• 8:28
  head and so but so. The CIA was tolerant.
• 8:31
  It wasn't a very professional environment.
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  It was more like a frat house and this provides the context.
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  Like all these guys would give themselves nicknames.
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  Like he assigned himself the nickname Badass which a.
• 8:45
  Little narcissistic. He's a little right.
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  Yeah, of course. I might name myself, you know,
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  chubby or, you know, yeah, fatty or you know, something self
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  deprecating. This is a little bit of a
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  projection on his part, whereas so.
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  He was. I'm a badass, but it my name is
• 8:57
  badass. Yes, we got the little name tag
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  or the little desk plate. Badass and like nobody else
• 9:02
  called him badass. They called him Voldemort.
• 9:04
  Apparently he's a character from Harry Potter story.
• 9:07
  I'm not familiar with it, but the other nickname he had was
• 9:10
  Nuclear Option, and he had that that nickname because of his
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  inability to deal with normal disputes, whether it's technical
• 9:21
  disputes. Personal.
• 9:22
  So like maybe just day-to-day disputes.
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  He couldn't deal with that. Yeah, he just, he would go
• 9:26
  Richter. So they called him nuclear
• 9:29
  because here's. The nuclear option because he
• 9:30
  would just go from zero to 100. Right off the deep end.
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  Yes, and so. That's what the Co workers.
• 9:35
  That's what. Yes, that wasn't.
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  That often describes what you really are about.
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  Sure, of course. You know, like the boys, they
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  don't play, they just. That's the consensus of
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  interacting with this knucklehead and so.
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  Where was he based out of peak? Well, the this particular
• 9:48
  division of the CIA was located in Northern Virginia, right
• 9:51
  outside of DC. Quantico where all that?
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  They never really disclosed the location of the building, they
• 9:55
  just said it was in a. But it was a division of the
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  CIA, yes. And it was, you know,
• 9:58
  nondescript building, the armed guards, you know, it looked like
• 10:03
  a just a regular office park. But then when you go, once you
• 10:06
  got inside, it was multiple key cards.
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  You have to go to the biometrics.
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  You have to go past security. It was face recognition.
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  Hold on. They did that.
• 10:13
  This is like the most sensitive of the US government's cyber
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  arsenal. This is essentially the crown
• 10:22
  jewels. And it was all under the CIA
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  umbrella. Sure.
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  Because the CIA is responsible for gathering intelligence from
• 10:28
  foreign countries, utilizing human assets, whether it's our
• 10:34
  guys going in there and operating in an undercover
• 10:36
  capacity or turning people from the other side to become spies.
• 10:40
  Essentially. It's distinguished from the NSA,
• 10:45
  which is much more technical. Now, this was the guys who said,
• 10:47
  OK, well, we got to get into that president's computers.
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  So they create a tech. And so one of the programs they
• 10:54
  had would turn a Samsung television into a.
• 10:59
  They would essentially convert the speakers into television,
• 11:05
  into microphones, and then they can transmit it.
• 11:09
  Like so when they were had a target.
• 11:12
  Sure. So let's say you had the the,
• 11:13
  you know, attorney general in Honduras has a television in his
• 11:17
  office. You make you somehow get in
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  there. Sure.
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  Well, he, like I said, he was an electrical engineer who was very
• 11:22
  talented with respect to programming.
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  And so now let's say the. Intel so he can build it and and
• 11:28
  and digitally make it so that only, you know, a guy just needs
• 11:31
  to put it install. It well, yeah, he whether he
• 11:35
  actually constructed it, he understood at a abstract level
• 11:39
  what would need to go into it, and then he would also create
• 11:41
  the code. This was the most devastating
• 11:45
  leak in American history. The CIA submitted a packet with
• 11:52
  respect to the guy sentencing, most highly classified, of
• 11:55
  course, but here's the cover letter.
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  And it says, as the criminal trial established, this is from
• 12:00
  the deputy director of CIA. Mr. Schultz is directly
• 12:03
  responsible for the largest data breach in CIA history and one of
• 12:06
  the largest unauthorized disclosures of classified
• 12:09
  information in the history of the United States.
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  His actions cost the agency hundreds of millions of dollars,
• 12:14
  degrade its ability to collect foreign intelligence against
• 12:17
  America's adversaries placed directly at risk CIA personnel,
• 12:20
  programs and assets, and jeopardize US National Security
• 12:23
  by degrading CIA's ability to conduct its mission.
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  In short, Schultz actions inflicted heavy cost on the
• 12:30
  United States. The.
• 12:32
  And so the So when you said we don't really understand how
• 12:38
  deep, like, look, this is as deep as it gets.
• 12:40
  They developed the capacity to take over a person's vehicle and
• 12:45
  so all of a sudden you could be driving and they hijacked
• 12:48
  control of the car and just drive you right off a bridge or
• 12:52
  slam you into a center divider. Or your brakes don't work.
• 12:55
  Or your throttle is stuck. Or yeah.
• 12:57
  That's the level of technical proficiency is stunning what
• 13:02
  they were able to achieve. So what was his first if we were
• 13:06
  to, if we were to start like how did he actually get to that
• 13:09
  spot? So.
• 13:10
  We had the frat house mentality, a bunch of young guys in their
• 13:14
  20s. And the rules are far different
• 13:17
  from them, yes. Yeah, the the normal officers
• 13:20
  don't get to operate in this type of an environment.
• 13:22
  This is the elite of the elite with with secretive like.
• 13:26
  Sure. And so.
• 13:28
  Like I'm you think Joshua walked around even with AC?
• 13:30
  Like he was probably so deep undercover that he didn't even
• 13:33
  have any credentials necessarily outside of getting inside of a
• 13:38
  facility. But the way he rolled around, he
• 13:39
  didn't have a badge or. Anything.
• 13:41
  No, he these are, they weren't allowed to discuss any aspect of
• 13:43
  it. And I've known several of these
• 13:45
  men because they've come through the Veterans Directory program
• 13:48
  at the prison. One of them was CIA, couple of
• 13:52
  them were NSA guys. And we can discuss their
• 13:54
  personal quirk later on also, because they're very similar to
• 13:57
  him. There's like a, there's a common
• 13:59
  denominator that I've noticed, which is why I was interested
• 14:01
  when we were having this conversation off air last week.
• 14:04
  Like, you know what? We may have to focus on this
• 14:06
  case because not only is it interesting technically, but it
• 14:09
  dovetails then with my own personal experiences interacting
• 14:12
  with. These you've had interaction
• 14:13
  with these sort of people in these positions and you probably
• 14:17
  have some, there's some common denominators.
• 14:19
  You know. Even with this guy, like the
• 14:22
  people that you met? Wow.
• 14:24
  So it's just you got to be a certain way to be on this level
• 14:27
  of. You know, I'm, I'm nearly
• 14:31
  completed writing a manuscript for a book I've been working on
• 14:34
  and I had to do essentially a deep dive into various
• 14:40
  subcultures within Silicon Valley, one of which is
• 14:43
  generally referred to as the rationalist movement.
• 14:45
  Another one is for the last decade referred to as the Grey
• 14:49
  Tribe, and he's a classic Grey tribe.
• 14:52
  Is that like a sub cult within the Silicon Valley from all the
• 14:56
  code writers and all the real smart?
• 14:57
  Dudes, yeah, it's the, you know, the.
• 14:59
  Like can a guy from Google be a friend from a guy from Apple?
• 15:02
  And sure, that's. Got nothing to do with it.
• 15:04
  This is more of political persuasions.
• 15:05
  Oh, OK. And so there was, you know,
• 15:07
  generally there's a perception that the country's divided
• 15:09
  between the conservatives and the liberals, the red and the
• 15:12
  blue. Well, these are the individuals
• 15:15
  that don't fit comfortably within the red tribe or the blue
• 15:18
  tribe. They call themselves the grey
• 15:19
  tribe. And so they have a tremendous
• 15:23
  amount of power within Silicon Valley.
• 15:25
  And so these guys are having this rat house type environment.
• 15:29
  And they're based out of somewhere outside of.
• 15:30
  Virginia in Virginia, Northern Virginia outside of DC.
• 15:33
  And where every federal agencies?
• 15:35
  And so, you know, they're having rubber bands.
• 15:38
  How many, how many people are in this elite group with?
• 15:41
  With he disclosed that it was going to be anywhere from 100 to
• 15:43
  200. In his little.
• 15:46
  In his space operation support branch, yes and so.
• 15:50
  That's a lot of people. Sure, of course then then.
• 15:54
  But here's The thing is so you've got this collection of
• 15:57
  young guys, they're having rubber band fights they have
• 16:00
  they bring nerf guns to to work, they're shooting each other all
• 16:02
  the time. And so things escalate.
• 16:05
  But. Things that young smart dudes
• 16:06
  would be doing, Nerds. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 16:09
  Yeah. And there's nerds gone wild
• 16:10
  predicting because they have. Nerds gone wild.
• 16:12
  Yeah, it's essentially. They're not out weightlifting
• 16:14
  and and doing what I mean. They're they're shooting, you
• 16:16
  know, the Nerf guns I mean. These are the guys that have
• 16:19
  essentially unlimited budgets and so.
• 16:22
  And not probably and probably P not to interrupt you, but
• 16:25
  probably not necessarily an an overall supervisor at at at the
• 16:30
  facility that's saying, OK, guys, knock it off, you know
• 16:33
  like. There is.
• 16:34
  There was a supervisor. The problem is the supervisors
• 16:36
  aren't competent to manage. These are guys like herding
• 16:43
  cats, essentially. Feral cats.
• 16:45
  Yeah. So like you bring in someone who
• 16:46
  comes in from any other division and they don't understand what
• 16:51
  the kids are talking about. Like you're there to make sure
• 16:54
  that everybody's on time and the projects are being going.
• 16:56
  Do you call them in? And we're where we at and our,
• 16:58
  you know, you make sure you're hitting the metrics, but you
• 17:01
  kind of have to just relinquish. Like just got to do what they
• 17:05
  want to. Do sure.
• 17:06
  And so he ends up having a personal dispute where he
• 17:09
  started out with the rubber bands, the Nerf guns.
• 17:11
  Then it gets to they were sabotaging each other's desks,
• 17:14
  like trashing each other's stuff.
• 17:17
  It escalates into him getting into a physical altercation,
• 17:19
  like him and Michael come to blow at work, at work.
• 17:22
  With one of his fellow. Agents.
• 17:23
  He was one of his colleagues. His colleagues.
• 17:24
  Excuse me, yes. And so these guys are not
• 17:26
  agents. They're like tech related
• 17:30
  officers. They don't actually use the term
• 17:32
  agent. And so it's more for FBI, I
• 17:34
  guess. Yeah, the FBI are special
• 17:37
  agents, whereas these guys are officers.
• 17:39
  And so the they call the agents, the assets, the people that you
• 17:46
  recruit from the foreign country is the agent, the officer does
• 17:49
  the recruiting essentially. And so the knuckleheads here,
• 17:53
  Schultz and Michael get into a physical altercation.
• 17:55
  So who's? He getting in a fight with.
• 17:56
  A guy named Michael, Michael called colleague.
• 17:59
  So it gets it goes up the chain. You know, obviously you know,
• 18:02
  the supervisors have to step in like, hey, knock it off.
• 18:05
  Well, he has a subsequent. While this is going on, he
• 18:08
  develops a problem with another worker, a mall Amal.
• 18:12
  So now. He's got Michael and Amal that
• 18:14
  he's got. While he's going through this
• 18:17
  disciplinary type administrative review with Michael, things
• 18:20
  escalate between him and Amal and they go Richter like he goes
• 18:24
  and reports to his supervisors a false claim that Amal had
• 18:27
  threatened to unalive them and so now.
• 18:31
  That's pretty major More. Certainly, yes.
• 18:33
  And the problem for Scholter is by this point his reputation was
• 18:39
  already well known throughout the office and the
• 18:42
  administrative staff are like, OK, well you know what, you're
• 18:45
  the common denominator between all these issues.
• 18:47
  So what we're going to do is we're going to separate you and
• 18:52
  put you. So they move his desk
• 18:53
  assignment. Just he goes nuts now at this
• 18:55
  point because he loses his spy. He's got a windowless office.
• 18:58
  And for insecure men who particularly don't interact well
• 19:04
  with others, very poor problem solving skills when it comes to
• 19:09
  interpersonal relationships. He of course gets deeply
• 19:13
  offended. So now he's got problems with
• 19:15
  his colleagues, problems with his supervisor.
• 19:17
  In fact, at one point he actually filed in civil court in
• 19:21
  Virginia a request to get a restraining order from his Co
• 19:25
  worker. You can't be filing papers in
• 19:28
  court. You're you're on.
• 19:29
  When you're on this elite of a undercover Willie, you can't put
• 19:33
  this shit out in the public sector because over hurt
• 19:36
  Felioma, right? Yeah, that's exactly what it
• 19:38
  was. And so now so.
• 19:39
  He starts. So now he starts establishing
• 19:40
  that he is the fucking problem. He is the problem, and so did
• 19:44
  the administrators said. You know what?
• 19:46
  We're going to segregate the individual, and we're going to
• 19:49
  strip him of the administrator privilege that allowed him to
• 19:55
  have essentially complete access to their developmental network.
• 19:58
  They call it Devlin, And so he gets infuriated.
• 20:03
  Not only have they moved his physical relation of his food,
• 20:06
  but now they're taking various accesses that he has to.
• 20:09
  No, they did so because it wasn't punitive.
• 20:12
  It's like, OK, you're no longer working on this project.
• 20:14
  Everything's compartmentalized. Preventative you.
• 20:18
  Can't give him that much credit. It was prevented and it was, but
• 20:21
  they were trying to. They assigned him to a different
• 20:25
  project, therefore he no longer had necessity to have access to
• 20:30
  this particular. To the other project.
• 20:32
  And so now you're going to focus over here.
• 20:33
  Well, he of course takes umbrage.
• 20:38
  He now go particularly because he felt, you know, personally
• 20:41
  invested and so he was able to bullshit one of the other
• 20:45
  individuals saying hey look, I got word from the one of the
• 20:48
  supervisors I got access again. So he reinstates his access into
• 20:51
  each other developmental network and while doing so he creates
• 20:56
  back door for himself. So he gets ended up, they end up
• 21:00
  catching. Because he's that guy.
• 21:01
  Yeah, he's that guy. Shit.
• 21:02
  So he's a it's a few days later and they discover, hey, like,
• 21:04
  what are you doing? You're not allowed to have
• 21:05
  access over here. It's like, OK, they find out
• 21:08
  about. It So yeah, they find out about
• 21:09
  it like OK, OK, OK, you're right.
• 21:12
  And so I got into my feelings. I'll disable everything.
• 21:16
  Of course he did. Of course.
• 21:18
  And so now, now at this point, he's developed a tremendous
• 21:21
  amount of animosity and becomes consumed with vengeance.
• 21:28
  Does it become like a personal vendetta?
• 21:31
  Specifically at those two dudes and the agency.
• 21:34
  Or just kind of superior at the superiors like the two guys were
• 21:37
  personal disputes. This was he perceived it as a
• 21:40
  personal betrayal and he was abandoned by his supervisors
• 21:45
  which suppose to show you just how distorted and what the lack
• 21:51
  of perspective this individual shows.
• 21:52
  Now, at the end of the day, would this be the president at
• 21:56
  the end of the day, the commander in chief, he's in
• 22:00
  charge of everything. Would this have been anything
• 22:03
  that the president of the United States would have been briefed
• 22:06
  on? I mean, whatever, whoever was
• 22:08
  the president during the majority of this Tom foolery,
• 22:11
  would that have, do you think the president of the United
• 22:14
  States, whoever it may have been during this, these acts, was up
• 22:17
  to speed on this? With respect to the office
• 22:21
  dispute. No, but like the.
• 22:22
  Technical capacities. Once it started escalating to
• 22:25
  when they were really looking into him for some really bad
• 22:28
  things. Once the well, once the
• 22:32
  information was leaked, certainly.
• 22:35
  What president would have that been?
• 22:36
  It was a Mr. Obama. So it would have been under
• 22:39
  Obama. Yes, this happened under his.
• 22:41
  Well, he was sentenced just two years ago.
• 22:43
  Well, yeah, but that but the. Underlying machinations occurred
• 22:46
  while Obama was there. For the eight-year term that
• 22:48
  Obama Yes, so. And so.
• 22:51
  When did they first arrest him? He was arrested in 2017.
• 22:57
  OK. And so, and the office disputes
• 23:03
  occurred in 2016. And so things came to a head in
• 23:08
  March. A month later, he decides he's
• 23:12
  going to access the information which was essentially to crown
• 23:15
  jewels. And he had an because of the way
• 23:21
  the the Devlin network is set up, it's what was referred to as
• 23:26
  air gap. So it's not accessible to, it's
• 23:29
  not hooked up to the Internet and.
• 23:31
  That's why it's called air gaps and it's how do they access it?
• 23:35
  Well, he would have a code to be able to access it.
• 23:39
  And that's a bad part of the problem.
• 23:40
  It wasn't a backdoor traffic. It was essentially this is be
• 23:43
  they operate under the assumption that because it
• 23:46
  wasn't accessible that it was secure, never thinking about
• 23:49
  someone on the inside doing the leaking.
• 23:52
  And so when later on after this matter came to head and they had
• 23:56
  their after action investigation, it turns out that
• 23:59
  these guys were having like the passwords on post it notes on
• 24:02
  their computers. Like everybody had acts like
• 24:07
  everybody out of the 200 men in the unit, everybody had a
• 24:09
  complete access. There was no effort to
• 24:11
  compartmentalize. There was no effort to like
• 24:14
  limit on a need to know basis. They were simply just trusting
• 24:18
  the kids to go wild. And and so when they accessed
• 24:25
  the network to retrieve the information, he was able to
• 24:28
  download the entire archive. It's basically built on similar
• 24:32
  to like GitHub where the entire history is available, so you got
• 24:37
  all the manuals along with all of the source code, along with
• 24:41
  all of the revisions. Now, what was the particular
• 24:44
  project that they were working on that he accessed that end up
• 24:48
  being so problematic? Every project, the entire
• 24:53
  archive, every target, every cyber offensive capability that
• 24:58
  CIA had developed or we're in or we're in the process of
• 25:03
  developing, we're accessible. So any Intel?
• 25:07
  Any. Everything any took some several
• 25:10
  dozen like over 30 terabytes of data I.
• 25:13
  Think you said 34. And there was. 34.
• 25:17
  Terabytes, over 8000 documents along with millions of lines of
• 25:21
  the actual source code all. Right.
• 25:25
  So he, he, he. Downloads all of this
• 25:26
  information and of course he does it in such a manner where
• 25:28
  he goes back, he eliminates the logs, like the key logs where
• 25:34
  he's able to cover his tracks. He used an operating system that
• 25:39
  only prints the RAM, therefore it's not going to leave an
• 25:41
  imprint on the actual hard drive.
• 25:44
  And then he transmits it using Tor.
• 25:46
  So he uses the tail operating system, the Tor network to
• 25:48
  transmit the information and he leaks it to WikiLeaks.
• 25:52
  Now WikiLeaks, of course, at that point had already achieved
• 25:55
  a measure of fuckery. Well yes, on the one hand they
• 25:58
  were highly esteemed, on the other hand, from the American
• 26:03
  intelligence community perspective, a lot of fuckery.
• 26:06
  He takes the entire archive. And and he's still not caught.
• 26:10
  Right. No, at this point CIA has no
• 26:12
  idea any of this goal. He's still rolling around.
• 26:14
  And so he does the exfiltration, transmits it to wiki to wiki.
• 26:21
  Now, to follow up the point on WikiLeaks, you know, they had
• 26:24
  achieved, of course, even before Snowden, a significant level of
• 26:31
  prominence because they were responsible for the disclosures
• 26:34
  of the information related to the war in Iraq.
• 26:36
  And the Hillary Clinton and the Hillary Clinton Benghazi.
• 26:39
  Yeah, sure, a little bit on the road, but that came from Wiki,
• 26:41
  right? Sure, and you.
• 26:42
  So yes, Wiki leaks did achieve an even greater level of
• 26:45
  notoriety when during the 2016 presidential campaign, Trump
• 26:49
  would always get it at his campaign rallies.
• 26:51
  I love wiki leaks. This just came out.
• 26:57
  This just came out WikiLeaks. I love WikiLeaks.
• 27:01
  That wasn't the sentiment shared by the American intelligence
• 27:05
  community. And so particularly after the
• 27:09
  Snowden disclosures and shortly before the Snowden, shortly
• 27:14
  before Schulte, there was a separate disclosure from the
• 27:17
  NSA. So they a.
• 27:19
  Whole nother shitstorm. Or the shitstorm and so.
• 27:21
  So it came. It came Wiki with Snowden.
• 27:26
  Fought out with Iraq. With with with Iraq.
• 27:29
  And then with Snowden. And Snowden.
• 27:31
  Then Hillary. But no, there was another
• 27:32
  incident before. Before Benghazi.
• 27:34
  Then there was another NSA issue, then the Democrat DNC,
• 27:39
  Hillary emails, and then Schultz.
• 27:45
  Now where does Schultz rank amongst all?
• 27:47
  That the worst Extraordinary by far, by far.
• 27:49
  Schultz revealed the specifics of how we were doing something
• 27:52
  that everybody already understands because they're all
• 27:54
  doing the same thing. So like when you heard the US
• 27:56
  government saying, well, we don't want, you know, Huawei
• 27:59
  routers being imported from China because they can use it
• 28:02
  for this, That's because we're already doing that.
• 28:06
  And so. We don't want anybody else.
• 28:08
  It's OK for us to do it. When somebody else starts doing
• 28:10
  it, then it's a shit show. Well.
• 28:11
  Yeah, because they understand what the capacities are, because
• 28:15
  they've got units like this particular OSB branch that are
• 28:20
  dedicated to identifying the weaknesses that they could
• 28:27
  exploit in any particular system in order to turn it into an
• 28:30
  intelligence gathering now. With regards to these special
• 28:34
  divisions of various agencies that are like what we're talking
• 28:37
  about here with Schultz, are there, I mean, does China have
• 28:40
  this, this these type of agencies within their Intel does
• 28:43
  Russia, yeah, yeah. Do all the major players have
• 28:46
  the the MSS is famous for their and are they where do we stack
• 28:51
  up with regards to effectiveness?
• 28:53
  Are we the best? Are we kind of the best, are we
• 28:57
  or is there other countries as good of us there's?
• 28:59
  No, there's no. There's no way to to.
• 29:02
  To to evaluate the metrics, however, look the I had to do I
• 29:09
  prepare show notes for a friend a few years earlier when I was
• 29:12
  at the halfway house because he was interviewing the NSA guy
• 29:15
  formers hacker worked for NSA, worked for CIA.
• 29:18
  Then he went into the providing cyber defenses and you know our
• 29:25
  mutual friend and he doesn't know anything about anything
• 29:28
  related to text. So I had to break down like this
• 29:30
  is what the Chinese do. This is what the Russians do.
• 29:32
  This is what the Koreans do, and this is what the Iranians do,
• 29:34
  and this is what the Israelis do, and every one of them have.
• 29:39
  A similar division. It's extraordinary capacity.
• 29:42
  I mean, there's only so much gadgetry and gimmickry that you
• 29:46
  can come up with. Well, somewhere.
• 29:49
  They all have probably the same skill set.
• 29:51
  So with regards to Schultz? So things have escalated with
• 29:55
  Schultz. He's exfiltrated the
• 29:57
  information. He's got all the library he's
• 29:59
  already. Transferred everything over to
• 30:00
  Wickley. 34 get terabytes of of pretty much every fucking in and
• 30:05
  out the CI as ever planned or thinking about planning to wiki.
• 30:09
  The cyber offensive arsenal has been taken worth 100.
• 30:13
  They they invested hundreds of millions of dollars in building
• 30:16
  out this capacity. The price tag was essentially
• 30:20
  you couldn't put a price tag. It's billions of dollars worth
• 30:22
  of. All the man hours and all the
• 30:24
  connects and Intel. He could have.
• 30:27
  He could have contacted the Chinese and offer to sell and
• 30:29
  they could give him a billion. No big deal.
• 30:32
  Like this is the kind of thing that I mean.
• 30:35
  So the Intel he had was potentially worth like a billion
• 30:38
  dollars billions to a guy like to to China.
• 30:42
  So what kind of weapons did did did WikiLeaks kind of exposed to
• 30:48
  the world? And at that point is, is the
• 30:50
  world looking at us and be like, really, motherfucker, you had
• 30:53
  this and this and this and this and this plan against me.
• 30:56
  Is that the problem? Well.
• 30:57
  Here's The thing is the after the Snowden disclosures a few
• 31:02
  years earlier, everybody was already looking people at a
• 31:06
  sideways because it wasn't so much the spying on, you know,
• 31:11
  China or Russia like adversaries.
• 31:13
  People expect that because they're doing the same with us.
• 31:15
  Where it became an issue was it was like, well, we're recording
• 31:18
  all of the phone calls of the German Chancellor like we're
• 31:21
  spying on our allies. And Germans like what the fuck?
• 31:24
  No, she was actually like, OK, let him listen.
• 31:27
  Like, you know. Well, that has to be the
• 31:29
  response, but you know, behind. You're like.
• 31:32
  Motherfucker, what? You know, let's blow a call into
• 31:34
  the president or let's call. Do you think that governments
• 31:37
  blue calls into Obama or? I have no doubt that there were
• 31:41
  at some level diplomatically objections raised and so, but
• 31:48
  that's so I don't think it was going to change how other
• 31:53
  countries thought. What was important about this
• 31:56
  disclosure? Well, at this point it hadn't
• 31:58
  been yet publicized, so it gets disclosed to WikiLeaks.
• 32:01
  He continues working for the next 6 months as CIA and
• 32:06
  administrative problems don't really get resolved.
• 32:08
  He's continuously making accusations against people.
• 32:10
  He wrote one famous memo. So even after his WikiLeaks, he
• 32:15
  still stayed employed with the CIA.
• 32:16
  For another six months. At this point he's complaining
• 32:19
  on other employees. Now he's complaining morally
• 32:23
  against the does. He know that the gig's up.
• 32:25
  Does he know that? Like at that point when he's
• 32:27
  still employment, when he releases to WikiLeaks the 34
• 32:30
  terabytes, the entire library of this whole secret division of
• 32:34
  that, We don't want anybody to know the most secret thing going
• 32:36
  on to the point of we're going to turn countries against us.
• 32:40
  When that happens, how long does it take for us to discover the
• 32:44
  source? Well, WikiLeaks revealed it.
• 32:48
  They published it a year later, but they sat on it for
• 32:52
  essentially 12 months. Did they know he was going to
• 32:54
  be, for lack of a better term, a dead guy?
• 32:56
  I mean dead guy walking with regards to the minute that the
• 32:59
  people know his. Because he was very successful
• 33:02
  in concealing the manner in which he did the extraction.
• 33:07
  So wiki could just be like this comes from the CIA doesn't just
• 33:10
  say who from where. When they made their public
• 33:12
  disclosure, they refer to it as Vault 7.
• 33:15
  It was true disclosures. I was wondering how it was.
• 33:17
  So that's where Vault 7. Sure.
• 33:18
  They called it the Vault 7 disclosures.
• 33:20
  Like Vault 7 was essentially the manuals, the disclosure of all
• 33:25
  of the programs and Vault 8 was the disclosure with respect to
• 33:31
  what's the actual was referred to as the Hive, which is
• 33:36
  basically all of the source code.
• 33:37
  Like it's one thing. And this is where WikiLeaks then
• 33:40
  gets this identified as a non state hostile intelligence
• 33:45
  service by the CIA. They went through they were
• 33:47
  going to go on a live to the head of WikiLeaks.
• 33:49
  Snowden. Oh no, no, not Snowden, Julian
• 33:52
  Assange. That's.
• 33:53
  What I meant, that's what I meant, yes.
• 33:54
  No, they they got to the point where they go, go get this.
• 33:56
  Out he was in. At this point he was in London,
• 33:58
  he was taking up, he was. Telling me he was dating Pamela
• 34:01
  Anderson. He wanted asylum.
• 34:04
  He was a being afforded protection in the UK Ecuadorian
• 34:09
  embassy in London. Correct?
• 34:11
  Like the CIA was actually developed developing plans to
• 34:13
  send hitters into the embassy, snatch the guy up and take him
• 34:16
  out. And then highly illegal.
• 34:19
  You have no idea this, this was that magnitude of a disclosure.
• 34:23
  Point where they were going to actually send in operatives to
• 34:27
  to storm another embassy. Storm the embassy and snatch
• 34:29
  this guy up in another. Country and fucking what happens
• 34:32
  happens yeah kill him on on alive him.
• 34:35
  Yes, this. Here's the thing.
• 34:38
  On on on Assange. Yes, because.
• 34:41
  He's the one that invented WikiLeaks, right?
• 34:43
  Yes. Assange, yes, he was an
• 34:44
  Australian national. And, you know, here in the
• 34:47
  United States, a lot of people were saying he's a traitor, he's
• 34:51
  not American. He has no loyalty to our
• 34:53
  country. He just exposed our dark side.
• 34:55
  Yes, well, what and. And none of it was not true,
• 34:59
  correct? Well, it was disingenuous on his
• 35:02
  part only because up until even Vault 7, if it when if he had he
• 35:08
  limited to the disclosing the existence of the programs and
• 35:11
  like these are the manuals. That's one thing.
• 35:15
  He actually published code that the CIA had generated with
• 35:22
  respect to these projects. But now you're arming adversary
• 35:26
  countries. So now the Iranians and the
• 35:30
  Russians and the Chinese had this capability.
• 35:34
  So it's not you saying like in the Snowden context, you know,
• 35:38
  Snowden had a disclosure whether it's misguided or not, but it
• 35:42
  was principled in that he wanted to bring the light this to
• 35:45
  create a but. Bringing the lights one thing
• 35:48
  showing the code. That's arming the adversaries.
• 35:53
  That's given your that's given your adversaries a machine gun.
• 35:56
  That's like, that's where he crossed the line.
• 35:59
  Assange did, where the CIA director at the time, Pompeo,
• 36:02
  said. OK, we're going to go get this
• 36:03
  son of a bitch. So how close were we at one time
• 36:06
  of getting Assange? And he was in the Ecuadorian
• 36:10
  Embassy within London. And in London, and they didn't,
• 36:13
  you know, they were relying more on diplomatic pressure, like
• 36:17
  they ginned up a, well, allegedly ginned up a case
• 36:20
  against him in Sweden and then indicted him here in the United
• 36:26
  States. And so he was able to litigate
• 36:29
  for years, but the guy ended up spending years trapped inside
• 36:31
  his. What, what?
• 36:32
  What? Of all countries, Why Ecuador?
• 36:35
  Was it because they didn't have any extradition?
• 36:37
  Well. Ecuador at the time was.
• 36:39
  And it's in Great Britain, so Ecuador, the Ecuador embassy in
• 36:43
  London. In London, Ecuador at the time
• 36:45
  had a very not anti American but just a strong and bias against
• 36:55
  American, what they perceived as America as imperialism.
• 36:58
  Who was that guy? I.
• 36:59
  Don't forgot the name of the Ecuadorian president, but there
• 37:01
  was a. That was all he was Snowden.
• 37:04
  I'm sorry Assange was allowed to be in the Ecuadorian embassy
• 37:07
  because this president was very anti.
• 37:09
  Yeah, essentially assigned assess gave him asylum in the
• 37:13
  embassy, but he couldn't leave the grounds.
• 37:14
  Yeah, like if he would leave the property, he was he, they, they
• 37:17
  probably had people 24/7 ready to go the minute he hits that
• 37:22
  sidewalk. Well, we were even planning an
• 37:25
  attack, maybe. Well, you're unalived a guy, or
• 37:29
  like we were talking about with the cartel matter.
• 37:31
  If you take him back, just snatch him up, take him outside
• 37:35
  and throw him over the fence because the US government
• 37:38
  doesn't care how the guy gets into our.
• 37:39
  Court System Vault 7 was the first dump that wasn't as bad.
• 37:43
  It was over and they did it very dramatically.
• 37:47
  They did it. Yeah, WikiLeaks did like a 24
• 37:49
  point, a 24 part drum essentially.
• 37:53
  Like a part every day. Or like over the course of a six
• 37:55
  month period and so. That was Vault 7.
• 37:59
  Yes. And so when he leaves, you know
• 38:03
  he does the exfiltration. Six months later he leaves.
• 38:06
  He gets a job working for Bloomberg doing tech related
• 38:09
  work. So he moves to Manhattan.
• 38:10
  Oh, Schultz does. Schultz does.
• 38:12
  So he leaves the DC area. Moves to New York.
• 38:14
  Does he get fired from the CIA? He will fully resign.
• 38:17
  Yeah, he steps away. He just takes his job in the
• 38:19
  private. Sector and at this point when he
• 38:21
  when he steps away from the CIA, he has no idea.
• 38:23
  Well, do they even have no idea? Nothing, nothing.
• 38:26
  Where this where Vault 7? And they have no idea that any
• 38:30
  of this is taking place. And or that he was behind it.
• 38:33
  They're probably good riddance. Get out of here, not here.
• 38:35
  Fucking so then he. Leaves six months later after
• 38:37
  the theft, transmits it to WikiLeaks six months later, He
• 38:40
  leaves Six months later, WikiLeaks publishes, blindsides
• 38:44
  the CIA. And so now this is where the
• 38:51
  absurdity starts coming in. Because on the one hand, they're
• 38:53
  trying to figure out who in the hell did this.
• 38:55
  So they had to bring in the FBI. But the FBI, you know, the CIA
• 38:59
  didn't want to acknowledge that this information was legit.
• 39:05
  Because it was so fucking undercover.
• 39:06
  They don't want to take onus of well.
• 39:08
  Because here's the thing. They were agreed.
• 39:09
  Yes, well. Right.
• 39:10
  I mean, they're like, sure. And this is so fucked up that
• 39:13
  we're going to be like, we don't even know where this shit came
• 39:14
  from. Though they're not going to
• 39:15
  confirm or deny, they're not going to take the, we don't know
• 39:18
  where it came from. They're just not going to
• 39:19
  acknowledge. And so they maintain the
• 39:23
  classification level. So here you've got FBI agents
• 39:27
  not able to access the information as CIA because
• 39:31
  they're not cleared. They're literally having to go
• 39:34
  like buy just, you know, a laptop and swing by the local
• 39:38
  Starbucks and go on to WikiLeaks to examine them information they
• 39:41
  can. They can't get from internal.
• 39:44
  No, it's just the entire. Because internal so say
• 39:46
  secretive, that they don't want their own government agency to
• 39:51
  be able to look into the breach because it's so secretive the
• 39:55
  shit they're dealing. With.
• 39:56
  So now the government who's investigating this leak has to
• 39:59
  actually go to WikiLeaks. To try to start running this
• 40:02
  down as a consumer, yeah. The org yes and then they had to
• 40:07
  take that laptop and then secure it in a skiff like the the
• 40:09
  entire process kind of just. And Schultz is in in the
• 40:13
  private. Sector He's in the private
• 40:14
  sector in New York. And they probably have no idea.
• 40:17
  Well, once the leak happens, you have 7.
• 40:20
  Or 8/7/2017 No Vault 7 or 8. It's Vault 7.
• 40:24
  Vault 7, yeah. So you had the 24 releases for
• 40:27
  Vault 7. Vault 8 was the last one, which
• 40:30
  is the actual source code. Which was the biggest shitstorm
• 40:33
  of all. Which is the one that was, well,
• 40:35
  at that point, everything was a shitstorm.
• 40:36
  But of course, this is it's one thing to disclose the money's
• 40:40
  counterfeit. It's another thing to teach them
• 40:41
  how to do it, how to do it. Right.
• 40:43
  You know, yeah. And so this.
• 40:45
  And that only validates your, your initial claim.
• 40:48
  You know, OK, not only do we claim this, but here's how they
• 40:51
  did it and here's how we did it. And so.
• 40:54
  And here's how you guys can do it.
• 40:55
  That's that's where the problem comes in.
• 40:57
  Yeah, that's what gets the guy the bounty on his head.
• 41:00
  And so when the FBI, they start interviewing everybody at the
• 41:03
  office and he immediately come upon Schultz.
• 41:06
  Yeah, because the common denominator is, man, let me tell
• 41:08
  you something. Biggest fucking weirdo of all.
• 41:09
  So not even here anymore, but you guys should.
• 41:11
  Look at this dude, the disclosure although what
• 41:14
  happened a year later? The most recent update.
• 41:19
  Like the guy did the exfiltration in April, the most
• 41:23
  recent update was in March. So they were the information
• 41:26
  that was disclosed. The WikiLeaks was the March
• 41:29
  revision. At 7:00.
• 41:31
  And so the first seven, yes. And so they were able to say,
• 41:34
  OK, well, it happened prior to this.
• 41:38
  Date. They knew that kind of the date.
• 41:40
  Yes, there's someone who was working after March in the next
• 41:45
  12 month period. So it could be someone currently
• 41:47
  employed or someone who was there.
• 41:49
  So they're like, hey, well, we had this guy who was a fucking
• 41:52
  headache, blah, blah, blah. So Schultz becomes immediately a
• 41:56
  person of interest and it just so happens that he was getting
• 42:01
  ready to, here it is now, March, He's getting ready to go with
• 42:03
  his brother down to Mexico to go on spring break, Schultz.
• 42:07
  And so the FBI is like, uh oh, they don't know if he's going to
• 42:10
  pull a Snowden. And.
• 42:12
  Trying to get the hell out. Of here get out of the country.
• 42:15
  So they go, and they snatch him up.
• 42:16
  Schultz Schultz in New York. In New York, no.
• 42:19
  They they grab him before he's flying out, presumably.
• 42:23
  Grab him at the airport or grab him on his way to the airport.
• 42:26
  And so when they snatch him up, he had his CIA.
• 42:31
  The the individuals associated with intelligence agencies are
• 42:36
  provided a black passport as opposed to our standard Blues.
• 42:40
  Well, he never turned in his passport.
• 42:44
  And so when they apprehended him, he was traveling under a
• 42:48
  passport. He was no longer issued issued
• 42:51
  so he was able to. They didn't arrest the guy but
• 42:54
  like that probably the basis to stop him from traveling.
• 42:57
  That was the red flag to make initial contact.
• 43:00
  Well, there was a black passport.
• 43:01
  Yeah, they'd already, it was the basis to say you're not getting
• 43:04
  on this flight. And so they they didn't arrest
• 43:08
  them. So they stopped the individual
• 43:10
  from leaving, Schultz from leaving.
• 43:11
  Meanwhile, they raid his place in Manhattan and of course he's
• 43:17
  got all his tech there, his computers, and he had his one of
• 43:22
  his servers where the FBI brings in their tech specialist and he
• 43:30
  has a virtual machine embedded within his network.
• 43:34
  And so they're able to like they penetrate through 1 encrypted
• 43:38
  device and they penetrate to another level of encryption and
• 43:41
  another level of encryption. And this is our guy, our FBI.
• 43:43
  Yeah, the FBI guys at this point and so, and they're looking for
• 43:46
  evidence of Schultz having anything to do with this
• 43:49
  WikiLeaks. And at this point, he's already
• 43:52
  in trouble because he had been doing a lot of searches on
• 43:58
  WikiLeaks with respect to the disclosures.
• 44:03
  And so it was like he was trying to kind of stay ahead of it a
• 44:05
  little bit as to who's searching what.
• 44:07
  He was like the the go go beach guy following the doing the
• 44:10
  Google searches to see what's the article saying about him.
• 44:13
  Like a lot of these nutjob. What's the What's the
• 44:16
  scuttlebutt amongst the ethosphere, if you will?
• 44:19
  Yes, they derive a sense of satisfaction, or they want to
• 44:25
  read about themselves and how clever they are and how.
• 44:29
  Almost a form of narcissism or almost kind of like that.
• 44:31
  Remember how like I know that you know this too.
• 44:34
  They say a lot of times with serial unalivors that they'll
• 44:39
  actually be come back and be a bystander on the scene during
• 44:45
  the investigation. Like so when the police have the
• 44:47
  police tape up and they got, you know, and they're investigating
• 44:50
  all these unalivings and stuff like that, the sometimes the bad
• 44:54
  guy will be in the crowd of the onlookers kind of blend into the
• 45:01
  crowd on the onlooker, onlookers almost kind of to have a
• 45:05
  satisfaction that he created that much drama and there's that
• 45:08
  much attention to his crime. So is that, is that a thing,
• 45:11
  Pete, where it's not uncommon for a person to sometimes try to
• 45:15
  be a a witness to their own crime?
• 45:17
  It's a malignant narcissism. He was monitoring the
• 45:21
  developments and he kept, you know, the search queries were a
• 45:25
  strong indication like at that point that information is easily
• 45:28
  retrievable. And they detained him.
• 45:30
  Yes, they were detaining him for.
• 45:32
  The black passport with. A black passport while the
• 45:35
  search is taking place, and so they now.
• 45:36
  They can probably only hold him a certain right when you detain
• 45:39
  somebody, Pete. What's the rules on that?
• 45:41
  Yes, you're going to have a like, they can either arrest the
• 45:46
  guy or slow walk him essentially.
• 45:50
  OK, we're going to have to take this passport, we're going to
• 45:52
  have to go through the administrative process, We're
• 45:53
  going to confiscate this. And so it's enough you're able
• 45:57
  to delay the process enough to allow the search to take place
• 46:00
  because before they raid, but he's.
• 46:02
  Probably after apprehended for the black passport, he's
• 46:05
  probably not allowed to go back home, right?
• 46:07
  Because the FBI is raiding. Correct.
• 46:09
  So the FBI is raiding the house. They're slow playing them.
• 46:12
  They're slow playing administratively, detaining him.
• 46:15
  And questioning him once they they had to release him.
• 46:18
  So he goes and grabs a hotel room.
• 46:20
  Was smart enough not to go back home well.
• 46:22
  He couldn't go to the FBI There you saw that the FBI search in
• 46:24
  your place. As they're detaining him,
• 46:25
  they're like, hey Schultz, not only will be tainting you,
• 46:27
  asking you some questions, but the feds are currently.
• 46:29
  But that means that they already had enough evidence to establish
• 46:32
  probable cause the raid. You think at that point he knew
• 46:35
  he was fucked? I think at that point he thought
• 46:38
  he had sufficient leads here. 16.
• 46:40
  No, no, this is 1818. Excuse me, this is 17. 17.
• 46:45
  Yes, April 17. And so I'm thinking that I
• 46:51
  believe that at this point, he looked one of his
• 46:53
  characteristics. He always thought he was like
• 46:55
  the smartest guy in the room and he was very dismissive of people
• 47:04
  without that technical level of proficiency.
• 47:07
  Everybody else is stupid. Yeah, no, he and he and this go
• 47:10
  back to his days in college where he was just obviously, you
• 47:18
  know, programming prodigy. But he made very disparaging
• 47:22
  comments, like most Americans already and normal people, just
• 47:26
  like very highly critical statements, which indicates A
• 47:30
  profound lack of humility. Like it's one thing to be
• 47:33
  bright, but it's another thing to think you're going to be
• 47:37
  smarter than everybody. That's usually when you're, you
• 47:39
  know, going to break it off in your rear end.
• 47:41
  You can have a problem at that point and so.
• 47:45
  I'm sure always somebody bigger, stronger, smarter, richer, like
• 47:48
  there's always somebody and you know, some of the most
• 47:50
  successful people are humble enough to know that.
• 47:54
  Well, it's not just humble. It's so much of what happens are
• 48:01
  determined by luck. You know, there's a level of
• 48:04
  randomness that most people don't appreciate.
• 48:08
  And so, and this is a word, the trap he fell for because he had
• 48:13
  multiple layers of encryption. And look, he had done an
• 48:17
  extraordinary job covering his tracks.
• 48:22
  But when at this point, this is probably the most significant
• 48:26
  federal law enforcement investigation in the country,
• 48:29
  and when you've got the full resources of the FBI they bring.
• 48:34
  And they got the resources of any other agency.
• 48:36
  Particularly in something of this nature, it is because
• 48:38
  understand when they made this disclosure, it compromised every
• 48:42
  ongoing operation. More importantly, it allowed for
• 48:47
  every other intelligence operation, intelligence agency,
• 48:52
  whether it's the MSS from China, FSB from Russia, all these
• 48:56
  groups to be able to say ha, ha, well, we recognize that there
• 48:59
  was a an exploit, but we didn't know who did it.
• 49:05
  Or how it was done. So now it was able to for them
• 49:07
  to reverse engineer and say, OK, it's the Americans and this is
• 49:11
  how they did it. The Americans don't know that
• 49:14
  we're this fucking shady. The average American thinks that
• 49:16
  we're, you know, Johnny Baseball, apple pie, ho hom
• 49:19
  yapo, You know, America, we're the greatest.
• 49:22
  I mean, like, you know when we are the greatest, but you know,
• 49:23
  we would never do anything wrong and we're not shady.
• 49:26
  Well, particularly it was one of the projects was called
• 49:28
  Umbridge. And this was particularly
• 49:31
  damaging because it was a archive where we had compiled
• 49:38
  the signatures used by foreign and intelligence gathering
• 49:44
  operations, whether it's the Chinese, the Russians, the
• 49:46
  Iranians, the the French. And we had created this archive
• 49:51
  where we would embed it into ours.
• 49:55
  And so for instance, say it's going to be, we're going to spy
• 49:57
  on India. What is going to be like 1
• 50:01
  little errant code where there's a mistake in that there's going
• 50:06
  to be Chinese characters or it's going to be in Cyrillic.
• 50:14
  Like they missed the when they did their review, their audit,
• 50:18
  they missed this one little telltale signature.
• 50:21
  And so now it creates the impression like, aha, now the
• 50:23
  Indians are mad at the Chinese. Right, you stir up shit.
• 50:27
  And so not only did we steal their information, but we framed
• 50:30
  the other people. Stole it, framed innocent people
• 50:35
  on their intelligence and then stepped back?
• 50:36
  We don't know. What's going on exactly?
• 50:39
  So probably one thing that Schultz miscalculated is that
• 50:42
  there's somebody that's as good and as smart.
• 50:45
  As you are when you do that, you have looked at it's the complete
• 50:49
  cyber arsenal. They characterize it as a
• 50:51
  digital Pearl Harbor. They were just completely
• 50:54
  blindsided. It was catastrophic and it
• 50:57
  allowed what's referred to as attribution.
• 51:01
  And so all these other agencies who previously had discovered
• 51:05
  that someone had compromised one of their systems or one of their
• 51:07
  network were able to say, ha, ha, you guys did it and you
• 51:11
  framed Iran. I mean just total fucking bad
• 51:14
  guy shit. Like just really not cool.
• 51:17
  So when they when they are raided his apartment.
• 51:20
  So they're going through all these levels of encryption,
• 51:23
  looking for evidence of the WikiLeaks connection.
• 51:26
  They get down like 4 or 5 levels of.
• 51:29
  Encryption, yes. They discover a trove of
• 51:36
  material involving minors being abused.
• 51:40
  Children children's stuff preteen on Schultz's 7 layers
• 51:45
  deep, they find this so not only not only is he not only is he
• 51:50
  the a. Piece of shit.
• 51:51
  A piece of shit. Fucking traitor.
• 51:52
  Piece of shit traitor that's trying to fuck with our
• 51:55
  potential safety of of our country but now he's a chomo.
• 51:59
  He's a Cho on top of it all. It doesn't and and on the look
• 52:05
  all chose are obviously bad. But on the spectrum of chose.
• 52:09
  Oh, he has to be dangerous. He's he's a terrible fucking
• 52:11
  Cho. Not only is he a dangerous Cho,
• 52:13
  but he's also maybe one that can be.
• 52:15
  Discovered over 10,000 images and videos.
• 52:21
  He has and. With his technology savvy, it's
• 52:23
  hard telling who. And he is sort of compiling just
• 52:26
  while he was in college. He's been a a lifetime show.
• 52:29
  So he's been a show, not just like this.
• 52:31
  Is other than a recent show? This is a lifetime show.
• 52:34
  A lifetime show. He was accessing this material
• 52:39
  through what's essentially the dark web, and he had amassed
• 52:43
  this archived as library of thousands of these images and
• 52:46
  what's bad? And you're like, it's all bad.
• 52:48
  But these are like. Preteen.
• 52:52
  Yeah. Like kids.
• 52:53
  Like, like kids. Like like in the sentencing
• 52:57
  memorandum, the government discusses some of this.
• 53:01
  Which we'll get into. Well, and just so like on one of
• 53:04
  them, it's going to be, you know, they had specifically 3400
• 53:07
  images and videos. And so like with respect to this
• 53:13
  one over here in one of the videos and imagine being the FBI
• 53:17
  agents. So you're looking for all this
• 53:20
  espionage related material. When you get into this file
• 53:23
  after multiple layers of encryption, you think you found
• 53:25
  your. Jackpot.
• 53:26
  You're already dealing with the complete biggest asshole ever to
• 53:28
  exist digitally. And what pops up?
• 53:30
  A video of a 2 year old tied up getting abused and it's like Oh
• 53:41
  yeah this guy at this point. We're dealing with a fucking.
• 53:45
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean it, it, it, it, it.
• 53:47
  And there's, you know, a second video was a, a 12 year old
• 53:52
  that's bound by ropes and cables and you have an, an adult male
• 53:58
  one with a 2 year old with one video a 12 year old had forcing
• 54:02
  her to perform acts on a dog. It's like like what the and he's
• 54:09
  got a like and he's got commentary notes.
• 54:12
  And so now, of course, from the FBI perspective, it's like what
• 54:15
  we're looking for evidence really into this espionage
• 54:18
  investigation. As if you know that's not bad
• 54:20
  enough. Now we got this fucking weirdo
• 54:22
  doing yeah. Oh yeah.
• 54:24
  Yeah, at a high level of of encryption and a high level of
• 54:27
  secrecy, you know, like some of these chomos are just fucking
• 54:30
  stupid. And you know, the local agency
• 54:32
  gets them wrapped up in a hey, Will.
• 54:34
  You say 1 of the undercover things, Yeah.
• 54:36
  Grady Judd gets them and, and and that's great, and I want
• 54:39
  them to get all of those people. But then there's got this.
• 54:41
  This guy's probably so sophisticated that he slipped
• 54:44
  through every potential, you know, local agency.
• 54:47
  Yes. And he's, like I said, he
• 54:48
  compiled this, what the government characterized as 3400
• 54:52
  independent files. And videos.
• 54:55
  And videos, yes. And it's just just just
• 54:57
  horrific. So now the FBI, but they don't
• 55:00
  charge him. For the chomo stuff because?
• 55:03
  They don't want to let him know that he got they gotten through
• 55:06
  his encryption. So it's kind of a cat and mouse,
• 55:09
  yeah. Like they don't.
• 55:10
  So he did. They let him know.
• 55:12
  OK, all's clear. We confiscate your servers.
• 55:14
  We confiscate your computers. And they continue to detain him
• 55:17
  they had. No, they let him go without or
• 55:20
  watching him. Who does he contact They.
• 55:22
  Were never going to let him out of the country though, probably.
• 55:24
  No, no, I'm sure at this point just got under 24 hour
• 55:26
  surveillance, right. And so they they just, they've
• 55:28
  got the. But they know the chomo, but he
• 55:30
  they. Got the Cho.
• 55:32
  He doesn't know that they know. Right, they got the Cho.
• 55:34
  It's the ultimate wild card trump card.
• 55:37
  Like if necessary, we could drop the hammer on him at any time on
• 55:39
  the Cho, but keep the investigation going because
• 55:42
  we're trying to determine the evidence with respect to the
• 55:44
  espionage. And so for the next 6 months
• 55:47
  they watch in the sky and finally they're like, you know
• 55:50
  what, just to charge him on the Cho.
• 55:52
  We at least get him for that. Yes, but now they hold him that
• 55:55
  way because when he was when they raided, they they notified
• 56:01
  the attorney like, hey, look, he was able to go get an attorney
• 56:04
  and you're under your subject of an investigation with respect to
• 56:08
  this, you know, this leaks. And so the attorneys are like,
• 56:11
  hey, look, charge, you know, charge him or get off the pot.
• 56:15
  Shit or get off the pot I. Don't know if I could say that,
• 56:18
  yeah. Yeah, you can shit or get out
• 56:19
  the pot. And.
• 56:20
  So that's if you got a big sling and Dick attorney, that's what
• 56:22
  he comes out with usually, right I.
• 56:24
  Don't know who the original attorney was, but they're making
• 56:28
  demands saying, hey, look, you're, you've, you've got this
• 56:31
  suspicion hanging over his head and it's impacting his life.
• 56:36
  Charge them or don't charge him. You've got the evidence.
• 56:38
  Let's move forward so. The feds go OK, well guess what
• 56:41
  buddy? OK, we're going to drop the
• 56:42
  hammer on them, use them to use the Cho to Cho to hold them.
• 56:46
  So now. Which, you know, by public
• 56:50
  sentiment is like, you know, the worst ever.
• 56:52
  Like his espionage was probably next level shit and so bad for
• 56:57
  our country and so bad for us. But.
• 56:59
  The shows the. Show is what gets America all
• 57:01
  lathered. Up, sure.
• 57:03
  And so they arrest. They charge him on the Cho
• 57:05
  charge. Which is significant.
• 57:07
  Now he being a tech prodigy was able to say well hold on a
• 57:12
  second. First of all, that hub was
• 57:16
  accessible to multiple people. He's like that wasn't his, like
• 57:24
  they didn't access. Yes, there's a it's a virtual
• 57:30
  subset within his net servers. Like it wasn't on his.
• 57:34
  It was accessible through. He was.
• 57:37
  Like he wasn't hosting. It so 1 of dozens of people
• 57:39
  could potentially have access to this and so the judge gives them
• 57:42
  bail. Really.
• 57:46
  Yeah, he gets these guys get bail.
• 57:48
  They don't. They don't give drug traffickers
• 57:49
  bail, but they give these guys. Right.
• 57:50
  They don't give a guy sling a little bit of crack bail, but
• 57:52
  they give this motherfucker that's Chomo Willy with a
• 57:55
  fucking espionage kicker and go ahead, buddy.
• 57:57
  Fucking go ahead. Live your life.
• 57:59
  We're going to maybe, maybe we'll come get you.
• 58:00
  I don't know. Fuck it.
• 58:01
  So they let the scumbag out. Oh yeah, but what does the worst
• 58:04
  scumbags go? And.
• 58:06
  With the restrictions, so like of course he's part of his
• 58:08
  conditions was you cannot access the Internet.
• 58:12
  And kills him right there. And so.
• 58:14
  But that's not going to stop. Him that doesn't stop.
• 58:16
  Him because he thinks, well, you may not think I'm fucking
• 58:18
  accessing the Internet, but I'm so fucking good that I can
• 58:21
  access the Internet and you not know about.
• 58:22
  Well, not just that it's he can say, OK, well, I'm going to go
• 58:25
  to my cousin. Hey, Jimmy.
• 58:27
  Get on. Do this search for me like I'm
• 58:30
  not doing it Jimmy and SO. And you're looking over Jimmy's
• 58:34
  shoulder. Sure, of course.
• 58:35
  And so and he has Jimmy accessing the information via
• 58:39
  the Tor network. So then he's doing searches
• 58:43
  vicariously through another person.
• 58:47
  And then, of course, being the Cho that he was, for his own
• 58:52
  personal gratification, he was accessing another Cho archive.
• 58:58
  Others, so not only the one he dabbled in, but otherwise.
• 59:01
  Supplemental Cho archives so he's while out while out on
• 59:06
  bail. With a no Internet Willy.
• 59:07
  With a no accessing more Cho materials and so are.
• 59:13
  The feds laying on them, they do.
• 59:14
  They know. Well, sure, because they're not
• 59:16
  only not only do they ultimately snatch him up for accessing.
• 59:22
  More tro. More troll material.
• 59:24
  But when they did so, they grabbed his cell phone.
• 59:28
  This is like the guy's super bright.
• 59:30
  He's a fucking Jackass. Why he's so narcissistic?
• 59:33
  He thought he's on. Touch and so he when they access
• 59:37
  his phone they discovered photos.
• 59:41
  He had a female roommate and there was an incident where she
• 59:45
  was incapacitated saying drunk or whatever and came home drunk
• 59:49
  as all fuck. Well there's photos of on his
• 59:54
  phone of her passed out while he was essaying her.
• 1:00:02
  He's assaulting her. Assaulting her, yes.
• 1:00:04
  And they didn't have a picture that she's unconscious.
• 1:00:07
  She's unconscious. Blacked out, whatever.
• 1:00:08
  Blacked out cold and you know, there's photos of his hands
• 1:00:11
  touching areas which were inappropriate.
• 1:00:15
  So now, so now. They have that too.
• 1:00:16
  FBI goes and they they go talk to the girl like.
• 1:00:19
  She probably like I had a guy I had.
• 1:00:20
  No idea what the Hell's going on.
• 1:00:22
  So now they charge him in state court for the assault.
• 1:00:27
  SA in state court. So now they have a basis to
• 1:00:29
  revoke the bail. We put them back in federal
• 1:00:33
  detention. Hopefully the fucking liberal
• 1:00:35
  ass judge didn't let him out on bail again.
• 1:00:37
  So yeah, I don't know who the judge was.
• 1:00:39
  But I'm just saying. Yes.
• 1:00:40
  And so he didn't. Well, the Bail Reform Act have
• 1:00:46
  certain criteria. I'm sure that the judge just
• 1:00:49
  applied the law. Correct.
• 1:00:51
  You know, like I said, these guys get treated in the system a
• 1:00:53
  lot better than drug traffickers.
• 1:00:57
  For whatever reason. Yeah, and so the but they revoke
• 1:01:01
  his bail, put him in custody. He's infuriated now, like you
• 1:01:08
  would. Think at this point he feels
• 1:01:09
  he's above being a cursor. Not just that, it's just it's,
• 1:01:13
  you know, when you're in a hole, stop digging.
• 1:01:17
  And he just couldn't stop. Couldn't stop digging like me
• 1:01:20
  and Pringles. Once I eat one I can't stop.
• 1:01:22
  I got to have half the fucking can Or Oreos same way.
• 1:01:25
  So he. Just I understand sicknesses
• 1:01:27
  like that I can't stop on Oreos or Pringles.
• 1:01:29
  So he decides, you know what, he's going to declare war
• 1:01:32
  against the government. With this fucker.
• 1:01:34
  Who's fucker? Against the What do you mean
• 1:01:37
  declare war? Yes, well the the within the
• 1:01:43
  federal system there are contraband cell phones in
• 1:01:49
  facility. Burners.
• 1:01:50
  And so. Right burners.
• 1:01:52
  He had became buddies with a white collar offender, and the
• 1:01:56
  white collar offender knew a Latino drug trafficker man named
• 1:02:03
  Luna who had paid thousands of dollars to get a contraband cell
• 1:02:08
  phone smuggled into the institution.
• 1:02:09
  Did the you know, the people he's hanging out with in prison
• 1:02:11
  know he's a chomo? Because usually those guys don't
• 1:02:14
  make it. Yes, but here's the thing, he
• 1:02:17
  was under investigation for the espionage, so I'm sure he didn't
• 1:02:24
  say anything about each other. He's like, he has his FBI search
• 1:02:27
  warrant saying, yeah, they're fucking rating me for they think
• 1:02:29
  I leaked this stuff to Wickley, but I did.
• 1:02:31
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Liberty like, oh.
• 1:02:32
  They say I'm a chomo and I no. They didn't have to say anything
• 1:02:35
  about the chomo, right? He wouldn't.
• 1:02:36
  He would. Just credit the espionage.
• 1:02:38
  Yeah, he would just say that, yeah, they got me fucking
• 1:02:40
  espionage here. Here's the search warrant.
• 1:02:41
  They're gonna see the search warrant.
• 1:02:43
  It's gonna say, okay, he's targeting for leaking
• 1:02:46
  confidential CIA information. He can say he's the CIA officer.
• 1:02:49
  You can tell he's a fucking nerd.
• 1:02:50
  Just probably. Yeah, they're like, OK, guy's
• 1:02:51
  just the CIA guy who who leaked information.
• 1:02:53
  He at that point he wouldn't have had any problems.
• 1:02:56
  Correct SO. And so now he declares war on
• 1:03:02
  the government at this point. From jail.
• 1:03:03
  From jail and so he gets access. Which is stupid move #1.
• 1:03:08
  Like here's the thing, you get the cell phone, but the cell
• 1:03:11
  phone, it's challenging to recharge it.
• 1:03:16
  Yeah. Yeah, but he's an electrical
• 1:03:18
  engineer, so he rewires, breaks, you know, gets into one of the
• 1:03:24
  lights and rewires the lighting to be able to draw the energy to
• 1:03:27
  recharge the phones of. Course.
• 1:03:30
  Wow, so now he's in the loop. Yeah, so you got the narco who's
• 1:03:34
  got the phone, but he needs the nerd to recharge it.
• 1:03:38
  So like, he's going to get free access.
• 1:03:42
  The middle man, the white collar guy, he's, I'm sure going to get
• 1:03:44
  free access. So like I'll get 3 hours a day,
• 1:03:47
  you get 3 hours a day, and then Arco gets 10 hours a day.
• 1:03:50
  However it. However the breakup is going to
• 1:03:52
  be, he's going to be given an allotment.
• 1:03:53
  But they need the nerd to charge it.
• 1:03:55
  They need the nerd to charge it, and so he now has access to the
• 1:03:58
  phone. He starts creating various
• 1:04:00
  Twitter accounts. He starts creating very
• 1:04:02
  encrypted e-mail accounts. His Twitter handle was a free
• 1:04:06
  Jason Bourne. And so how fucking brazen.
• 1:04:12
  Like this knucklehead. So while he's in pretrial
• 1:04:15
  custody again for his own personal gratification, he
• 1:04:18
  starts accessing yet another Cho archive.
• 1:04:22
  From the phone. From the phone in jail.
• 1:04:24
  But he also starts leaking other confidential information.
• 1:04:31
  So now he contacts reporters for The Washington Post in The New
• 1:04:34
  York Times, pretending to be a family member and sends them the
• 1:04:38
  search warrant application. Then he creates another account,
• 1:04:42
  and there's a hacking collective known as Anonymous familiar with
• 1:04:47
  that. OK.
• 1:04:47
  And so? They scare me actually, very
• 1:04:50
  scared of them. Yeah, I've known several of
• 1:04:51
  them. Anonymous guys in prison.
• 1:04:53
  And so he claims to be Anonymous, a hacker associated
• 1:04:58
  with Anonymous and he starts leaking information.
• 1:05:01
  How does that piss off Anonymous?
• 1:05:02
  Because Anonymous don't fuck around.
• 1:05:03
  Well, anonymous, but there is no structure to it.
• 1:05:06
  Anybody can be anonymous, sure and so but the fact is his he's
• 1:05:11
  representing yourself to be anonymous yet continuing to leak
• 1:05:15
  information. CI as going fucking nuts.
• 1:05:19
  Like where? Where's this shit coming?
• 1:05:21
  Yeah, because it's also creating a defense for him.
• 1:05:25
  He's like, you guys got me in custody.
• 1:05:26
  Someone else is leaking. It's not.
• 1:05:28
  I'm not doing it. It's.
• 1:05:29
  Not you have another person, you have.
• 1:05:30
  Like almost you're almost prison as your alibi.
• 1:05:32
  That's his alibi. I'm in prison.
• 1:05:36
  Yes, but his malignant narcissism is driven because the
• 1:05:39
  guy's got a journal and he's documenting in his journal like
• 1:05:43
  his plan. So he's leaking this
• 1:05:46
  information, leaked that information, and he actually has
• 1:05:52
  a his journal indicates that his plan was to blackmail the US
• 1:05:56
  government for $50 billion. Say I will release all this,
• 1:06:01
  this this this. So he tries to ransom he.
• 1:06:07
  Tries to ransom the government, yes.
• 1:06:09
  So that's the plan billion, billion because he says he's
• 1:06:11
  aware of as a senior level systems engineer, he's A and
• 1:06:16
  aware of much more information that would disrupt the US
• 1:06:22
  diplomatic relationships with numerous other countries
• 1:06:25
  compromise all this other information.
• 1:06:27
  So this is like his plan. Well, what he doesn't
• 1:06:31
  appreciate, and just so people see, like, here's a photograph
• 1:06:35
  of Schultz in prison using a cell phone.
• 1:06:40
  Oh yeah, see. He's hiding behind a locker, but
• 1:06:43
  that's like in case the officer were to walk by, he's the
• 1:06:47
  locker's open. So you're just behind a locker.
• 1:06:49
  The Walker walks by. He isn't like at a minimum in
• 1:06:52
  the cell, you're going to have your cellmate posted up at the
• 1:06:54
  door. Watch to make sure he doesn't
• 1:06:56
  come out of the office. If he's out of the office, at a
• 1:06:58
  minimum you're going to be hiding behind a locker.
• 1:07:01
  Does your, does your Sally at that point just give you like a
• 1:07:04
  like, you know, just a, some kind of signal for you?
• 1:07:07
  To let him know, hey, the guy's out of the office.
• 1:07:09
  Well, at this point he's got this cockamamie idea.
• 1:07:11
  Oh, 50 billion? Free Jason Bourne.
• 1:07:13
  He's got this campaign, Anonymous.
• 1:07:15
  He's leaking information. He's literally in the process of
• 1:07:18
  trying to leak the discovery because he's receiving
• 1:07:20
  information from the government to repair his defense.
• 1:07:24
  Well, this is all confidential material.
• 1:07:27
  He's in the process of sending this stuff to WikiLeaks.
• 1:07:31
  All from prison. And so where he made his huge
• 1:07:36
  mistake was Luna the narco Is this guy's a get out of jail
• 1:07:44
  free card. Oh yeah, it's a huge play, Luna
• 1:07:47
  the narco can say. Listen, motherfucker, what Mr. I
• 1:07:50
  can serve this guy up on a platter.
• 1:07:51
  For so like, you know, this is what the CIA guy.
• 1:07:53
  And they're all cons because so, so you, you can't like, that's
• 1:07:57
  what Luna should be doing. Well, with respect to a show,
• 1:08:00
  yeah, no question. Yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't,
• 1:08:04
  I don't besmirch Luna at all. Now what year is that?
• 1:08:06
  Approximately this is 2000, between 2000, probably about
• 1:08:10
  2019. Yeah.
• 1:08:13
  'Cause his first trial was in 2020.
• 1:08:15
  OK, so he's in pretrial. Status.
• 1:08:17
  So he's being held here? Yes, at the Manhattan
• 1:08:19
  corrections scene. And he's doing the, you know,
• 1:08:22
  Operation Free Jason Bourne. He's got another one of them,
• 1:08:25
  but it was called Fuck Your Top Secret.
• 1:08:29
  Oh, as a Twitter account? Yeah.
• 1:08:31
  Now, are any of these accessible now?
• 1:08:32
  They've all been taken down. I don't know if they're I didn't
• 1:08:36
  haven't checked right. And so once he leaks the
• 1:08:41
  information, that's going to lose its classification.
• 1:08:44
  But this is where like he starts discussing the particular
• 1:08:47
  division he's working for. It was 200 guys.
• 1:08:50
  Like he's giving out information that any foreign adversary can
• 1:08:55
  use to deconstruct the operation.
• 1:08:59
  You take this little piece of information, these little
• 1:09:01
  tidbits of data put together what's referred to as a mosaic,
• 1:09:05
  right? And he'll give you an A sense of
• 1:09:07
  the the scope essentially. All right, so he's, he's
• 1:09:11
  preparing. So he's preparing for first
• 1:09:13
  first trial circa 2019. Yes.
• 1:09:15
  And so he has that's. Where the picture of him being
• 1:09:17
  in the MCC? And so then Luna picks up the
• 1:09:20
  phone, calls the government through, afraid of Luna I'm
• 1:09:24
  sure. Calls his attorney's attorney,
• 1:09:25
  contacts the government. 50 FBI agents raid the fucking prison.
• 1:09:29
  Because they want to talk to Luna now.
• 1:09:31
  Well, no, they want to search because they knew about the
• 1:09:33
  phone and they brought in a canine that was trained for.
• 1:09:37
  Electronics. Detecting phones.
• 1:09:40
  And of course, they probably find.
• 1:09:41
  It right, they find the phone. Now, can they reverse engineer
• 1:09:44
  it from that point as to what's been on that phone, what's been?
• 1:09:47
  Yes, because he, well, first of all, he had, like I say, it's
• 1:09:50
  hidden in his cells. Like you're hooked, you're done.
• 1:09:53
  And so they were able to, although he was able to clear
• 1:10:00
  the digital log on a number of his communications, he hadn't
• 1:10:08
  completed doing so like, and his notes is like go back and clear
• 1:10:11
  this, clear this. Well, he just hadn't gotten
• 1:10:13
  around to doing it. Yeah, 'cause he never thought
• 1:10:15
  he's gonna get caught so he can do it in a week or.
• 1:10:17
  Two, yes. And so sure enough.
• 1:10:18
  So they end up getting this information now.
• 1:10:20
  Now the government goes nuts. They take him from being
• 1:10:25
  pretrial in general population. They put him in the shoe.
• 1:10:28
  No, the secured housing unit. All by yourself.
• 1:10:31
  All by yourself, which is by President Sanders.
• 1:10:33
  I've I the worst the. Worst.
• 1:10:36
  So no. He gets put in his shoe, but
• 1:10:38
  they put him under what's called Sam.
• 1:10:40
  These are special conditions. So he was in a cell where the
• 1:10:44
  lights never came off and he was not allowed to have any contact
• 1:10:48
  with anybody else because he could still relay information
• 1:10:51
  either through his family or through other inmates.
• 1:10:54
  So they had him lock the lock. Down with white noise being
• 1:10:58
  pummeled into the into the cell. They'd have shit like that.
• 1:11:02
  Like, Oh, yeah, he was allowed to have no contact with any
• 1:11:06
  other inmate and he was not allowed to listen to anything
• 1:11:09
  else taking place where you couldn't even hear the officers
• 1:11:11
  talking to each other because they pipe in white noise or some
• 1:11:14
  bullshit. Oh yeah, yeah, he was he.
• 1:11:16
  He became. They say down at Guantanamo Bay
• 1:11:19
  that they pipe in like rock music and Metallica all hours of
• 1:11:23
  the night with the lights on, that you think that stuff
• 1:11:26
  happens. Yeah, of course I have.
• 1:11:27
  No question they do. Wow all.
• 1:11:28
  Right. So and so, yeah, yeah, they.
• 1:11:29
  Put him in Sam. Yes.
• 1:11:31
  And so now he's he's paralyzed. Well, not just that, he now he's
• 1:11:37
  just behaving in a manner where like he refuses to participate
• 1:11:42
  in programming. He'll take him to court and
• 1:11:44
  he'll shit in a holding cell, like just drop his pants,
• 1:11:47
  trousers and take a dump right in the middle, you know, And so
• 1:11:52
  like in this kind of information, like again, the
• 1:11:53
  guy's just digging a bigger hole.
• 1:11:55
  That information gets shared with the judge like, hey, he's
• 1:11:57
  in there. He.
• 1:11:58
  Just took a shit. Yeah, the judge finds out.
• 1:12:01
  The judge is like, and so he's getting ready to go to trial and
• 1:12:08
  his first trial to 2020 trial, he had a a, you know, a federal
• 1:12:12
  defender and most people you know, federal defenders are
• 1:12:15
  actually very good attorneys. They actually handle more trials
• 1:12:21
  than most lawyers because most, no, of course, they handle an
• 1:12:23
  enormous number of plea bargains.
• 1:12:25
  And he had turned down a plea offer.
• 1:12:26
  They offered him 10 years. Oh my God, yeah, 10 years. 10
• 1:12:30
  years. What you if have you have been
• 1:12:33
  as counsel to advise Take that, take the fuck you got a chomo
• 1:12:36
  with an espionage kicker. Get the take the 10.
• 1:12:38
  Fucking 10. Because 10 is what, 8?
• 1:12:40
  Yeah, he'd be out in 8 1/2, and at that point he'd already been
• 1:12:43
  down for two. You're going to be out in 6.
• 1:12:45
  Time served right, So. In six years, I mean, it's, you
• 1:12:49
  know. Said he got We're going to get
• 1:12:52
  what? He got Yeah, because the
• 1:12:53
  government got his logs, his, his journals extort the
• 1:12:56
  government for 50 billion. This is what I'm going to do.
• 1:12:59
  It's like they got your notes out of your fucking cell.
• 1:13:01
  They got the cell phone out of your cell.
• 1:13:03
  You got the narco Luna saying yeah, I hooked up the phone and
• 1:13:09
  I gave it to him and he's using it.
• 1:13:12
  They got the chain of command on the phone.
• 1:13:13
  They got the charging deal to. Show how you model.
• 1:13:16
  You're the one. You're the electrical engineer.
• 1:13:17
  It's not the narco. The guy with the 3rd grade
• 1:13:18
  education who rewired the fucking phones.
• 1:13:20
  Yeah, no. And so the you just I.
• 1:13:23
  Mean he's done. He's done.
• 1:13:25
  He turns down to 10 because the Government wanted to condition
• 1:13:28
  his plea on waiving all appeal rights and for some reason.
• 1:13:34
  He, well, he's narcissistic and he thinks that he's the he's the
• 1:13:37
  smartest guy in the room. So he thinks that he probably
• 1:13:40
  thinks, and he probably thinks Pete in a fucked up way, he
• 1:13:42
  might be able to beat this shit. Well, he's probably thinking
• 1:13:45
  that he's going to be able to suppress the evidence.
• 1:13:49
  And you know, fourth of our claims are notoriously very,
• 1:13:53
  very difficult to sustain. And so particularly in a case of
• 1:13:58
  this gravity. With a chomo.
• 1:14:00
  Well done. Not.
• 1:14:01
  Not just. Yeah.
• 1:14:02
  Well, again, you know the with the Tromo.
• 1:14:06
  Yes, but the Tromo wasn't caught on his servers.
• 1:14:11
  It was accessible through his servers on a central repository
• 1:14:15
  off site. So he had a little bit of an
• 1:14:17
  alibi there. Yeah, little bit.
• 1:14:19
  But we know he's a dirty. Fucking yeah.
• 1:14:21
  You don't know because when they got the cell phone Cho, now they
• 1:14:23
  got oh additional Cho. Right.
• 1:14:25
  So you're like, OK. Now you're just dead to rights
• 1:14:27
  on the. Choke.
• 1:14:28
  Now you're using yourself this cell phone to go to Chobo and.
• 1:14:31
  So now, but the the public defender did an extraordinary
• 1:14:34
  job and she got the cases, the charges severed.
• 1:14:37
  So that meant he was going to go to trial on the espionage
• 1:14:39
  charges and then the Cho charges.
• 1:14:42
  That way, the espionage jury isn't tainted.
• 1:14:45
  Tainted by the OK. By the Cho allegation, which?
• 1:14:47
  Is price smart? Oh yeah?
• 1:14:48
  So she maneuvered. To separate them, to separate
• 1:14:52
  them, try them. Try them separately.
• 1:14:54
  And, you know, the the government had an incentive to
• 1:14:59
  plead a case out because no one looks good coming out of this
• 1:15:03
  situation like the CIA. And the more you get into it,
• 1:15:06
  the more discovery and you could really start.
• 1:15:10
  Just validating some of this people understand.
• 1:15:13
  So now the supervisors have to come in and testify.
• 1:15:16
  They don't want to disclose these individuals and they don't
• 1:15:19
  want to have to acknowledge just how woefully and adequate.
• 1:15:23
  Well, and how complex they really, really are.
• 1:15:25
  The inner workings of what they do is exposed in court through
• 1:15:28
  discovery, whereas if we just plead it down or whatever.
• 1:15:31
  Yeah, he had his defense. The attorney crafted was
• 1:15:35
  essentially A scapegoat defense because remember early on when
• 1:15:38
  he had his original dispute with Michael the nerf gun rubber band
• 1:15:42
  slap fight guy? Well, it turns out that Michael
• 1:15:45
  had subsequently been himself identified as someone with poor
• 1:15:52
  work habits. He received like essentially.
• 1:15:56
  Demarcations and he's trying to use Michael.
• 1:16:01
  To fade to say look here you've got someone who himself is
• 1:16:05
  engaged in inappropriate conduct, who himself was
• 1:16:12
  identified as needed to be removed off this project to put
• 1:16:17
  him over here. So he essentially he's
• 1:16:20
  projecting to Michael everything he felt, but it creates A
• 1:16:24
  scapegoat defense. So he turns down the 10 year
• 1:16:28
  offer, goes to trial in 2020 under the espionage charge.
• 1:16:34
  The public defender hangs the jury.
• 1:16:36
  For real. No.
• 1:16:39
  She she hung the jury. And it's extraordinary because
• 1:16:42
  look, when the when there's a case of this magnitude like the
• 1:16:45
  US attorneys, the the assistant US attorneys that are the actual
• 1:16:48
  prosecutors in the courtroom, these are the best.
• 1:16:51
  This is this. This isn't the B team.
• 1:16:53
  This is not yeah, this is the guys that are the.
• 1:16:55
  The sharpest of the. Sharpest of the.
• 1:16:57
  But this sensitive information that you have to navigate
• 1:17:01
  through. Yeah, the prosecution team was
• 1:17:03
  the best of the, you know, the. Exactly the governmental dream
• 1:17:07
  team. Yeah, it was the Jordan Bulls
• 1:17:09
  era team. Because again, like you said,
• 1:17:10
  you're going against the best and the of the DOJ.
• 1:17:12
  Yeah, the the best FBI investigators, the best that are
• 1:17:16
  tech support. And so the.
• 1:17:18
  Hung, hung. And so at this.
• 1:17:20
  Point. So now all they got is chomo.
• 1:17:22
  Well, no, they're going to retry him on the espionage.
• 1:17:24
  Oh, that's right. You know the footed.
• 1:17:25
  Right. He's a hung.
• 1:17:26
  He was a hung jerk. So they're like, OK, we'll take
• 1:17:28
  a second shot at. This like a shot at this.
• 1:17:30
  What is the percentages of when the prosecution gets a second
• 1:17:34
  bite at the apple like the Melendez brothers, You know,
• 1:17:36
  they were it hung or they when they retried it the second time
• 1:17:40
  for the guys out in California. Of course, the the judge was
• 1:17:43
  different. He didn't allow stuff that the
• 1:17:45
  first judge did. And and what have you is there
• 1:17:48
  are the, are the odds skewed like for instance, the Lindsey
• 1:17:51
  Clancy stuff? Well, of course it's going to be
• 1:17:53
  skewed in favor of the prosecutor.
• 1:17:55
  Prosecutor, they've seen your defense.
• 1:17:57
  So now at this point, normally there's a going to be a
• 1:18:00
  settlement offer because at this point you've got leverage to
• 1:18:05
  negotiate a more favorable deal. This Jackass squanders that
• 1:18:11
  opportunity and as if he couldn't make the situation
• 1:18:17
  worse, he decides to fire the attorney so that he could
• 1:18:25
  represent himself. Pro Southeast.
• 1:18:26
  Pro Southeast. It's Abraham Lincoln that says
• 1:18:29
  only a fool has something like only a fool represents
• 1:18:33
  themselves. Only a fool has themselves as a
• 1:18:35
  as a client or something like that.
• 1:18:37
  And so you. Know, meanwhile, she's a rock
• 1:18:40
  star. She fucking did the win against
• 1:18:43
  against the biggest monster you can go against the federal
• 1:18:45
  government with unlimited resources and she hung it.
• 1:18:49
  And so if you would be cool to her, she could probably
• 1:18:52
  negotiate you a pretty damn good.
• 1:18:53
  Deal. Yeah, at this point he could
• 1:18:54
  have. Probably.
• 1:18:55
  Because the feds don't want to go through tattletale #2 right?
• 1:18:58
  Well, not only that, because they had to bring in Michael,
• 1:19:00
  they had to bring in them all. They had to bring in all the
• 1:19:02
  supervisors. You had to bring in.
• 1:19:03
  You know they'd have to close the courtroom for a lot of the
• 1:19:06
  testimony because the information is still classified.
• 1:19:09
  In camera all the. Kind of things.
• 1:19:11
  So do you have logistically a very challenging proceeding and
• 1:19:17
  likelihood of information getting disclosed?
• 1:19:20
  So if they offered you 10 and you turned it down and you hung
• 1:19:22
  them, and again, we're just arbitrarily predicting here, you
• 1:19:27
  got to think that your attorneys got some pretty good leverage.
• 1:19:30
  You could, you know, hard for seven.
• 1:19:32
  You could and they probably say OK, but we still got the chomo
• 1:19:35
  charge, so. Well, The thing is, I'm sure it
• 1:19:38
  would have been a package deal. Oh, so she could have kind of
• 1:19:42
  OK. No the problem for him is like
• 1:19:44
  I'm not familiar with the chomo charges but there may be a
• 1:19:46
  mandatory minimum like he maybe they couldn't have gone below
• 1:19:50
  10. Right, with regards to the
• 1:19:52
  mandatory minimums. Yes, and so.
• 1:19:53
  But you're in a far better position of negotiation when you
• 1:19:56
  hung them and you hang on to old girl because she's a fucking
• 1:19:58
  rock star, of course. And then the most foolish thing
• 1:20:01
  you'd. Ever fucking do.
• 1:20:02
  Ever did? Ever.
• 1:20:03
  Ever. Even you being absolutely one of
• 1:20:05
  the smart, you would never represent yourself.
• 1:20:08
  Would you not in a trial like No, of course not.
• 1:20:09
  No, no. Ask yourself questions and
• 1:20:12
  answer them. No, I mean it's like how?
• 1:20:14
  Does that happen when a guy goes pro SE and he wants to ask
• 1:20:17
  himself a question? He can't.
• 1:20:19
  He can't get any. But he's able to communicate
• 1:20:21
  with the jury through his interactions with the witnesses,
• 1:20:26
  so it's going to give you a level of familiarity that you're
• 1:20:28
  never going to be able to achieve.
• 1:20:31
  With with an attorney. Because essentially you're
• 1:20:32
  questioning provides them with your view.
• 1:20:39
  The problem is, you know, the application of the rules of
• 1:20:43
  evidence are very technical, and if there's one thing you know
• 1:20:48
  any scumbag prosecutor is going to be able to do is manipulate
• 1:20:51
  the rules. Sure, especially if they've had
• 1:20:53
  a lot of practice at it and and. These guys are the guys, like I
• 1:20:56
  said, the guys on this team are just the.
• 1:20:58
  The Schultz at this point is just a smart code guy.
• 1:21:02
  He doesn't. He's not an attorney.
• 1:21:04
  No. And or does know the procedures
• 1:21:07
  and? The thing that he has however,
• 1:21:09
  by going pro southeast, means he has to be allowed access to
• 1:21:14
  discovery to discovery, which meant he had to be given a
• 1:21:17
  laptop. They had to give him a fucking
• 1:21:22
  laptop. This motherfucker, this guy's a
• 1:21:26
  motherfucker. I know he doesn't stop.
• 1:21:29
  So yeah, yeah, he could have gotten 7 years maybe.
• 1:21:33
  Yeah, maybe. If there was a if there wasn't a
• 1:21:36
  mandatory minimum, I'm sure with that he probably could have
• 1:21:39
  gotten to seven pieces. So we go to trial 2 pro SE,
• 1:21:42
  representing himself, all the insurance and outs of getting a
• 1:21:45
  laptop, discovery, whole 9 yards.
• 1:21:47
  How does he present in front of the jury?
• 1:21:49
  The jurors? Well, they hang them.
• 1:21:54
  He gets convicted on the second round on the pro SE and like one
• 1:21:57
  of the jurors juror #4 who later on was interviewed publicly in
• 1:22:01
  an article in The New Yorker. So like at 1?
• 1:22:04
  Point. He laid him out.
• 1:22:04
  Oh, yes, like at one point the judge was actually, you know, in
• 1:22:09
  a future life, you may have a, a career as an attorney.
• 1:22:12
  It's like. Shut the fuck up.
• 1:22:14
  Like, yeah, easy savvy with respect to the technical aspect,
• 1:22:18
  and he could probably run circles around the individual.
• 1:22:22
  He could hold his own with the FBI tech specialist, sure, but
• 1:22:27
  you come off an extraordinarily condescending manner.
• 1:22:32
  And. So they so juror 4 was being
• 1:22:34
  interviewed, you said we got. Yes.
• 1:22:35
  And Juror Force is like, he's totally arrogant.
• 1:22:38
  And I mean, we got the notes. And the trial was federal, so it
• 1:22:42
  wasn't televised. It was artist rendering.
• 1:22:44
  That's during the that's pro Southeast.
• 1:22:47
  Pro SE getting ready to get set, but at this point, he's the
• 1:22:49
  sentencing. We don't know if he was pro
• 1:22:50
  southeast at sentencing. He was pro southeast at trial,
• 1:22:52
  at trial, even at trial, there's stand by counsel.
• 1:22:56
  Yeah, yeah. Because you have to have someone
• 1:22:58
  at the table, but he essentially is responsible for driving
• 1:23:03
  because the prosecutors won't talk to.
• 1:23:05
  Him So when the verdict come down 2020 232023 this thing runs
• 1:23:11
  itself through the through the court system first trial.
• 1:23:14
  I think it was 2020 acquittal, hung jury, 2022 conviction on
• 1:23:18
  the espionage, 2023 conviction on the Cho.
• 1:23:21
  He goes to the second trial. Does he pro say himself on Cho
• 1:23:24
  or does he get a attorney for? That I didn't delve into the Cho
• 1:23:28
  aspect of it only because we're focusing more on the espionage
• 1:23:30
  and so, but yeah, he gets convicted on the 23 Cho charge
• 1:23:34
  and then in 24 he gets sentenced.
• 1:23:37
  And that's where we get the headline here from The New York
• 1:23:40
  Times. CIA computer engineer who leaks
• 1:23:42
  secrets and sentenced to 40 years.
• 1:23:44
  Yes, well he ends up getting 33 years on a espionage.
• 1:23:47
  Now the government wanted life and by all accounts he should
• 1:23:51
  have got life. I would think.
• 1:23:53
  Because he was I. Mean just.
• 1:23:55
  The the the level 51, it doesn't matter if you're a first time
• 1:23:58
  offender, that's that's life. Anything over Level 42 is life
• 1:24:02
  absent A statutory maximum amount of charge.
• 1:24:05
  The only thing that saved him from the life was the conditions
• 1:24:09
  of confinement, pretrial with respect to being in the shoe
• 1:24:13
  with the, you know, the special conditions, the lights never
• 1:24:15
  turning off, the white noise. Oh, that helped him.
• 1:24:18
  Yes, that was essentially the, the conditions were so arduous
• 1:24:22
  that the judge says, you know what, I'm going to give you a
• 1:24:25
  variance. So although your range under the
• 1:24:28
  guidelines is level 51, which was subjected to a life sentence
• 1:24:32
  under Booker and the 3053 A factors didn't give him a
• 1:24:35
  variance, took him down to 33 for.
• 1:24:40
  The espionage for. The espionage.
• 1:24:42
  Then he threw on A7 year kicker. 6 1/2 Well, 33 1/2 for the
• 1:24:45
  espionage and then 6 1/2 for the Cho.
• 1:24:47
  And now that I now that he got 6 1/2 on the Cho, that means there
• 1:24:49
  wasn't a 10 year mandatory minimum.
• 1:24:51
  He probably could have gotten to seven, you're right.
• 1:24:53
  You're you're showing now that you know that it got 6 1/2.
• 1:24:55
  There's no mandatory minimum. He probably in his best day with
• 1:24:59
  that big badass defense attorney woman that he had probably could
• 1:25:03
  have got. 7. Yes, that and the government
• 1:25:06
  probably would have taken that all day because we don't want to
• 1:25:08
  go do this again. It's just a cost.
• 1:25:11
  Associated with the trials are enormous.
• 1:25:13
  And it's just peeling off the Band-Aid that we don't want
• 1:25:15
  anybody. It's it's tough that we don't
• 1:25:17
  want to necessarily pound our chest on and defending yes,
• 1:25:22
  'cause we fucked up. Sure.
• 1:25:23
  And like nobody came out of this looking good.
• 1:25:26
  Whether? Did, did, did.
• 1:25:28
  Did it ever roll uphill? So to speak?
• 1:25:31
  As we're wrapping this up, did it ever roll uphill?
• 1:25:34
  The CIA director did it. Did he?
• 1:25:35
  Did he take any shit for not being?
• 1:25:38
  Able to. I guess it was so far.
• 1:25:42
  Removed from the crime and two probably 2 administrations from.
• 1:25:45
  Well, The thing is the the the program itself, like the unit
• 1:25:50
  was disbanded. They had to stop all the
• 1:25:52
  projects that were ongoing and the administrators.
• 1:25:58
  Had all timed out probably. Those that I'm sure they were
• 1:26:00
  close to retirement are just going to take their.
• 1:26:02
  Retirement or with the new administration, because you got
• 1:26:04
  the Obama administration, then you got the Trump
• 1:26:06
  administration, then you got the So he was under 3 presidents the
• 1:26:09
  whole process. The whole process and look at
• 1:26:12
  any bureaucracy. The guys at the top aren't
• 1:26:15
  taking the heat, they're going to shit on some mid level
• 1:26:19
  bureaucrat and I'm sure the people that respect the woman
• 1:26:21
  that oversaw the OSB program she probably got.
• 1:26:24
  Early retirement. Or not just that.
• 1:26:26
  Or maybe she was in charge of national parks.
• 1:26:28
  From now on you go handle that. Yellowstone National Parks.
• 1:26:32
  She's running, camping you. Run.
• 1:26:33
  You run the CIA operation. Is that the fucking right?
• 1:26:37
  And so that's how the. So this guy will be.
• 1:26:41
  Will he go to this? 40, Pete.
• 1:26:43
  Now there's 40 in today's world being 40.
• 1:26:45
  Well, he's going to have to bring the he got a 40 year
• 1:26:50
  consecutive, so he's going to do the 33 1/2, then he's got to do
• 1:26:53
  the 6 1/2 and of course he's in a terrible spot because.
• 1:27:00
  He's 35, he's 35 now, and he's 3530.
• 1:27:02
  Five, he caught the charges when he was, I mean, he'll probably
• 1:27:09
  do 34. So he'll be in his mid 60s when
• 1:27:14
  he gets released. You would think that he should
• 1:27:16
  never be fucking. No, I mean look.
• 1:27:19
  That's how fucked up the system is, Pete.
• 1:27:21
  They made you almost do every fucking day of your shit.
• 1:27:23
  And you're I mean, you're you're you're you got a popsicle stand
• 1:27:26
  compared to this guy. Yeah.
• 1:27:28
  I mean, you're selling fucking. You're selling ice cream cones
• 1:27:32
  out the side of a truck compared to this motherfucker.
• 1:27:34
  Yeah. And so this and you know, God,
• 1:27:37
  the nature of his charges are bad only particularly because he
• 1:27:40
  has the enhancements put him in a separate category now like
• 1:27:44
  he's at ADX right now. He's at Super Max, right?
• 1:27:46
  He's at the Super Max so. He's in there.
• 1:27:48
  I in fact I just saw a documentary on ADX and where
• 1:27:51
  they're in there 20 it's like a 7 by 11 cell you are in there 23
• 1:27:56
  1/2 hours you have. 23 hours a day.
• 1:27:58
  Yeah, 0 interaction with any other prisoners at all and any
• 1:28:02
  other any movement at all is belly change, leg shackles and
• 1:28:06
  the and the. Black and multiple staff of
• 1:28:08
  course, and but there's as you progress.
• 1:28:10
  So let's say you get for the first seven years you're going
• 1:28:13
  to be in those conditions and then there's there's a step down
• 1:28:16
  program where they're going to let you start interacting with
• 1:28:19
  other inmates that are already progressing as you make your way
• 1:28:22
  from the ADX down to a standard maximum security.
• 1:28:25
  In his particular circumstance, he's prohibited from having
• 1:28:29
  contact like this may be his whole bid.
• 1:28:31
  Yeah. Because he's already indicated.
• 1:28:35
  That he can't go to prison under normal circumstances, he cannot
• 1:28:38
  be. He can.
• 1:28:39
  Just talk to an inmate and say, hey, you know what, send out a
• 1:28:41
  letter. To get me a cell phone.
• 1:28:43
  Well, yeah, well, you're gonna have a hard time getting a cell
• 1:28:45
  phone at ADX. But even if it's just
• 1:28:47
  correspondence, like he can mail out letters.
• 1:28:50
  Hey, tell your cousin to call this person.
• 1:28:52
  You can read the messages through phone calls.
• 1:28:54
  And we're not dealing with the average cookie.
• 1:28:55
  Here, no. And so, yeah, he's going to have
• 1:28:58
  a particularly challenging sentence and.
• 1:29:03
  Do you got, do you got other inmates when he starts getting
• 1:29:05
  more freedoms? Do you got other inmates that
• 1:29:07
  know what he did and you know? That's when he's also going to
• 1:29:10
  be kept in those kind of a circumstances for protective
• 1:29:12
  custody purposes, like he could walk the line at a standard no
• 1:29:18
  maximum. Security purpose.
• 1:29:19
  He'd be done. Now he could maybe get to like
• 1:29:20
  Tucson, which is the high security level place for chose.
• 1:29:26
  But the choke, his choke shit. Yeah, his chose.
• 1:29:29
  The guys at Tucson are even worse than him.
• 1:29:32
  There's some life for them to take this guy out.
• 1:29:33
  And well, he's he was a within the Cho community, they call him
• 1:29:38
  a picture show because he was watching images, whereas they
• 1:29:43
  seem to distinguish themselves between picture shows and what
• 1:29:46
  they call hands on. Oh, something like a person that
• 1:29:49
  actually, yes. So I guess probably within the
• 1:29:52
  Cho world, a picture Cho isn't as bad as a hands on Cho, but a
• 1:29:56
  fucking Cho's a Cho. Yeah, the.
• 1:29:57
  Normal guys don't recognize. If you get turned on by an
• 1:30:00
  image, you're. Just a Cho, you might as well.
• 1:30:02
  We don't, we don't, we don't distinct Cho's a Cho.
• 1:30:04
  Yeah, we don't, we don't, we're not breaking that up.
• 1:30:06
  And so, but yes, so he is going to be segregated at least at
• 1:30:12
  least I would assume at least 20 years before his information
• 1:30:15
  would be of no no value because you know 20 years from now
• 1:30:19
  everything is so far progressed. Right, so people.
• 1:30:21
  Are like, well, as of now, like he poses a threat to national
• 1:30:25
  security. Well, he poses a threat to a lot
• 1:30:27
  of different shit, you know, so they got to lock him down.
• 1:30:29
  Hey, man, what a great episode, Pete.
• 1:30:31
  It was. It was as exciting and dark and
• 1:30:35
  deep as you had, as you had, as you had said it was going to be.
• 1:30:38
  You're like when I was talking to Pete and getting some of the
• 1:30:40
  notes, He's like, man, wait till you fucking hear about this
• 1:30:43
  dude. This guy might be worse than
• 1:30:45
  Ramirez. Like this guy's bad.
• 1:30:47
  Well, you know the the serial guys are terrible, but they
• 1:30:51
  don't. But their harm is the individual
• 1:30:53
  that they. Or the geographical area that
• 1:30:56
  they. Live in that they terrorize like
• 1:30:57
  this guy. Literally.
• 1:30:59
  The world was his with regards to his being hooligate effect.
• 1:31:04
  Yes, it was a deliberate effort to harm the country.
• 1:31:10
  And then you throw the Joe. Because he's a, you know,
• 1:31:13
  because he, he lost the slap fight and some guy shot him with
• 1:31:16
  a nerf gun. Like, are you fucking crazy?
• 1:31:19
  And that's kind of the the the basis of a lot of this.
• 1:31:22
  It's all personal vendetta, Yeah, based on this inability to
• 1:31:27
  resolve a dispute. You know who would be a great
• 1:31:30
  interview? Pete, if we could get it, would
• 1:31:32
  be the defense attorney, The woman, I don't know if she would
• 1:31:35
  grant an interview, but it would be.
• 1:31:36
  That would be a great. Oh, yeah, that'd be a great
• 1:31:38
  interview. Yeah, to give you the inner
• 1:31:40
  workings of her defense and how. Everything would be much of
• 1:31:43
  that. Was classified or you could
• 1:31:46
  probably get into how disappointed like what was his
• 1:31:48
  mindset when he fired you? Like you know what?
• 1:31:51
  Whatever the attorney-client what it what it be?
• 1:31:54
  She couldn't say why I recommended.
• 1:31:56
  Well, it's obvious what she recommended.
• 1:31:57
  Sure, you could just say like I, I as a standard recommendation.
• 1:32:00
  I guess she could. Get to file and just go through
• 1:32:02
  some of her brilliant pleadings and some of the stuff that she
• 1:32:05
  got. Oh.
• 1:32:05
  Yes, yeah. I mean, if you wanted to do a
• 1:32:07
  deeper dive, like I just pulled the sentencing memorandums, I
• 1:32:10
  pulled the correspondence from the CIA, She.
• 1:32:12
  Needs to go into the oh, she probably is not just a defender,
• 1:32:16
  a a a federal defender. She's probably in practice.
• 1:32:20
  Yeah, this is the kind of case that was land her at Williams
• 1:32:23
  and Connolly or one of them taking Gump exactly law firm of
• 1:32:26
  that nature because at that point, like she's earned her
• 1:32:29
  chops. Deadly Intentions, me and Pete
• 1:32:34
  please. Pete and I please follow us.
• 1:32:36
  Subscribe, tell your friends we do one a week.
• 1:32:39
  They drop on Thursdays and we appreciate you letting us
• 1:32:43
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