Latest / WoT Spoilers / The Last That Could Be Done & A Warp in the Air - The Gathering Storm chapters 22 & 23 - EP525

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The Last That Could Be Done & A Warp in the Air - The Gathering Storm chapters 22 & 23 - EP525 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers Podcast.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: All right, well, let's let's dig into this chapter because
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: these these are some exciting chapters.
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: I think, yeah, it's a little little peak darth Rand
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: or nay, dear darth Rand.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, this is I almost want to go
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: like deeper than darth Rand, because darth Rand was like,
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: you know, I need to be hard. I mean, to everybody,
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: this is truly just like evil Rand. Right, this is
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: like Evil Rand doppelganger.
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: Well, this is a descent into that, right, this is
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: where he goes from Steel to Quindiar. This is the
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: last that could be done. But yeah, yeah, maybe this
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: is the the end of darth Rand in the beginning
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: of something even worse.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Because like, yeah, I feel like darth Rand. I mean,
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: there's is some like he's redeemed at the end in
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: the same way that Darth Vader was.
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: I mean, I've always just assumes darth Rand was his
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: end state. But you know, maybe there's another fandom we
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: can bring in as an analogy.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying, we've been calling Rand up to this
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: point darth Rand, and now he transitions into something else.
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: Maybe we were applying the title too early.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because we were kind of thinking from like when
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: he got his hand burned off.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: I've been calling him darth Rand since the Box.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that's fair, Emperor Rand. He's been Emperor Ran
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: for a while.
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he was Emperor Rand up until the Box, and
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: then after the Box I think of him as darth Rand.
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: But like, yeah, it's this is such an important transition.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: It's kind of like we really should have slightly more
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: other fandom crossover gradations.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, he's calling the Senate, sure, but yeah.
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: This is this is the last that could be done
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: and its immediate fallout. We're doing two chapters today, but
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: it really is just one event, just with a pu
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: V switch to kat Swain at the end.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's a short chapter and there's already a
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: POV switch here in the beginning. I don't understand why
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: they didn't just get crunched together into one chapter, So
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: this one definitely makes sense to do all together.
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for sure, And there's a lot of it's
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: an action scene, but there's also questions that I have
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: about plot, things that I don't know if are answered.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: So hopefully we'll have more than an hour's worth of
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: content at the end.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: Of this, I actually do have quite a bit of
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: things I can say, and some questions to ask, and
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: some things the tangent on. So I think we're we'll
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: go for a while on this one.
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: All right, Well, I guess it's my reading.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: Because it's yeah, you get some wrong now.
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: It's kind of a long reading because we don't get
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: to be in her head very often, and this is
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: our last chance, so we're going to savor it today.
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: We're doing to start with chapter twenty two, the last
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: that could be done. And the symbol is the for
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: snake in even though it's more.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: Of a a for snake in.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a snake and there's four loops on it,
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: so it's a for snaked.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: And it does usually represent forsaken in a chapter. It
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: is a forsaken symbol.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: Yep, yep, yep. Samarag sat alone in the small room.
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: They had taken away her chair and given her no
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: lantern or candle blast this cursed age and its cursed people.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: What she would have given for globulbs on the walls
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: during her days prisoners hadn't been denied light. Of course,
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: she had lost several of her experiments away in total darkness.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: But that was different. It had been important to discover
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: what effect the lack of light would have on them,
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: These so called eyes Sadai who held her. They had
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: no rational reason for leaving her in darkness. They just
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: did it to humiliate her. She pulled her arms closer,
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: huddling against the wooden wall. She did not cry. She
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: was of the chosen, So what if she had been
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: forced to abase herself? She was not broken, but the
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: fool eyes to die no longer regarded her as they
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: had Semarog hadn't changed, but they had somehow In one swoop,
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: that cursed woman with the perallus net in her hair
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: had unraveled Samarog's authority with the entire lot of them.
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: How how had she lost control so quickly? She shuddered
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: as she remembered being turned over the woman's knees and spanked,
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: and the nonchalance of it they on. The emotion in
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: the woman's voice had been a slight annoyance. She had
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: treated Samarag, one of the Chosen, as if she were
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: barely worthy of notice. That had galled more than the blows.
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: It would not happen again. Samarog would be ready for
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: the blows next time, and she would give them no weight. Yes,
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: that would work, wouldn't it. She shuddered again. She had
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: tortured hundreds, perhaps thousands, in the name of understanding and reason.
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: Torture made sense. You truly saw what a person was
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: made of in more ways than one when you began
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: to slice into them. That was a phrase she'd used
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: on numerous occasions. It usually made her smile. This time
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: it did not. Why couldn't they have given her pain?
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: Broken fingers, cuts into her flesh, coals in the pits
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: of her elbows. She had steeled her mind to each
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: of these things, preparing for them. A small, eager part
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: of herself had looked forward to them. But this being
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: forced to eat food off the floor, being treated like
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: a child in front of those who had regarded her
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: with such awe. I will kill her, she thought, not
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: for the first time. I will remove her tendons, one
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: at a time, using the power to heal her so
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: that she lives to experience the pain. No, No, I'll
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: do something new to her. I'll show her agony that
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: hasn't been known to anyone in any age. Samarag A whisper,
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: I just I like that. I like the the whole
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: bit of her crying to herself and thinking about all
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: her thoughts and then and then it just.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: You know how you get a little creeped out when
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: I read crazy male characters and evil winds and stuff
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: like that. That was a little too good for samarag
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: a little too zealous in the right spots, a little
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: too Yeah, I'm not I'm gonna avoid any dungeons with
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: you in the future that time. Fraid you'd be like,
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: h see what you're made of?
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: Twice Alice into it makes sense.
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: I've always said it.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: I've always yeah, I've heard, I've heard, you know, people
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: have been saying that, You've always said it.
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and nn talk is right. I would invite you
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: to a cave, not a dungeon.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: Obviously obviously, but you know the cave would have chains, right,
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: like you know at that point, is it a dungeon?
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: Is it a cave? Yeah?
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: Like that's true. And if you have to be lunk
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: to get there, isn't it a dungeon? Yeah?
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: Right, right, That's what I'm saying, because.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: There would be hard hats involved in the transit to
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: the dungeon m M.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: And safety is important when it comes to torture.
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you don't want to get hurt on the
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: way to the torture place.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: That's just yeah, I mean it invalidates the whole system, right, like,
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: because then you have an injury and pain that isn't
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: part of the system that you have to treat before
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: you can really start torturing them. And then that changes
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: the whole dynamic of the nurse victim mentality, like you
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: really really need a healthy victim if you're gonna do.
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: Torture, right yeah, anyway, okay.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Anyway disturbing.
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: I do think it's interesting the line about how she
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: had actually looked forward to medieval torture because she had
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: just built it up in her mind. Was like, a
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: medieval torture is gonna be such an interesting experience to observe.
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: And I've never been so powerless that I couldn't help
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: but be torture, so this will be interesting. Like I
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: do like that little insight into her that she's so
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: fascinated that she's not even afraid of it happening to
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: her per se.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Good God, is this what I've been doing to people?
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: Come on, so I'm wrong? Like, what do you think
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: like it's not pleasant, you know, and I don't know,
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: but there is that challenge, right, like can I stand
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: the pain? Would I be better than the people who
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: I've been torturing? Like I get where she's coming from,
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: But for her, that's the challenge. And this is this
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: insight helps me a little bit with floor beans, right,
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: because she doesn't really concentrate on the spanking. She's just like,
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: I've been treated like a child and that feels like shit,
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: and that for some reason broke me. I just I
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: don't know. I wouldn't spank a child the way she
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: was spent.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a different, right, But no, I do think
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: it is weird how she's like, I'm gonna be ready
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: for the blows next time. Also I was ready for
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: cold in the pits of my elbows, like I'm I
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: guess because what she thought she was going to be
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: holding out against was sharing information, not choosing to eat beans.
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: But yeah, no, it is nice to get the insight
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: on her and that kat Swaine read her correctly and
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: did in fact deliver the impact that she was looking for,
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: agreed Vucie, exactly. She's a statist who's a little macha
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: wasn't curious.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: So incomes shot Ahran, right, aka the avatar of the
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Dark One.
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: Basically, yeah, yeah, the literal hand of the.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: Shadow Sanderson likes to again, he's hammering it over and
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: over again. Right, It's a taller, much more important murdrawl.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: It's the only murdrawl that's ever smiled. You know, it's
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: probably something more than a murdraw in intent. Intent. I mean, like,
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: this is the Great Lord, his presence in the world.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: Whatever hole he's made through the seals by breaking four
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: out of the seven, he's able to infest this particular fade,
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: who we already know exists somewhat outside the pattern, as
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: all fades do, and so somehow he's made that connection.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: And these little bits of the fade that are different
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: are obviously just the Dark One has a sense of humor, right.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: The Dark One, of course, is the dark One is
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: obsessed with height. His whole thing about this cave that
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: brushes your head and makes you bow right like, oh,
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: he's obsessed with height, Yeah.
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, Yeah, this is this is the Dark One.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: Sock puppet.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, these aren't these aren't even organic floor beans,
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: them toxics. I like that idea that like, it's not
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: necessarily that the floor beans, it's that like they were,
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: you know, shitty floor beans. If they've been nice floor beans,
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: I can't believe they're making me eat like Kirkland brand beans.
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: God yeah, yeah, but yeah. Shadow Horan is here to
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: scold Samarag for nearly killing Rand, basically kind of expressing
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: a lot of Mordon's angst. He's delivering a memo, so
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: to speak from Morton, like what the fuck was that?
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you fucked up. You took his hand, which you
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: weren't supposed to do. You nearly killed them what you
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: weren't supposed to do, You got captured what you weren't
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: supposed to do, and now you're broken, which is something
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: that the Dark One does not like. He kills most
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: of his followers who break like that, or brings them
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: in for torture.
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: And you know Kosuvra all right, but usually he brings
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: them to her for torture. So what are you gonna
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: do when the torturer herself is the wand that fucked up?
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: It's a little of a bit of an administrative pickle.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: You give her one last chance. But I mean, so, okay, debate,
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: do you think that the bail fire, the embracing of
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: the true source, try the true power, the embracing of
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: the true power, the breaking of the collar. Do you
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: think the Dark One and Chatahran intended that? Do you
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: think they set Samarag up to die?
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: I don't see how they set her up to succeed.
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: I can't imagine how this setup was going to work
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: out any other way. Because the Dark One chooses who
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: to give access to the True Power to.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: See that is okay? Then I have another debate for you.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: Does the Dark One choose to give it to rand
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: or is the Dark One only giving it to Morodin?
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: And because of the crossing of the streams, he's able
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: to access the True Power through Morodin, And that is
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: not under the Dark One's control, because once he's granted access,
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: he doesn't necessarily have control over what is done with it.
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: I had never considered that. That is a very interesting
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: question because I assume that the Dark One is omnipotent,
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: all knowing, all powerful, and so clearly everything is planned
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: and no, but the crossing of the streams really does
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: bend the cosmology of the world pretty hard. You're really
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: not supposed to have bailfire hitting bailfire even within the
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: cosmology of this world. So like, if anything was going
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: to put events outside of the Dark One's control, it
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: would be that.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: And the reason I say that is because in the
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: last battle there's a line where Rand says he's pulling
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: the true power through Mourdent. Right. I think he's using
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: Mordan almost like an ingrill to pull the true power
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: from the Dark One.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: I always thought that was once the sword was in
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: the picture, but I don't. I don't know.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: But he's using the sword as an angrill to amplify it, right.
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: Okay, I thought the sword was that gave him access
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: to Morodin, but I might be wrong about that.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: The women controlling the sword, right, So Mordan picks up
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: the sword, he is then channeling through the sword. It
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: has the flaw that if you're channeling through the sword,
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: you can be taken control of without two women also
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: in it. Right, Rand is prevented from being vulnerable because
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: he has two women. Right, they're sort of filling the
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: vulnerabilities without those two women. If you're using calendar, you
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: can be sees control of so at that point they
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: sees control of him more at it and so the
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: Dark One has and that's where I think. Then Rand
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: uses Morgan because they have control of him to pull
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: the True Power.
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: Right, so that none of that is applicable here is
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: my point?
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: No, right, right, So.
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: And Morten's not even in the same room.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: No, but there is a moment where he does inhabit
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: Morgan's body right before he uses the True Power. We'll
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: get to it in this scene. In this scene.
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, okay, Well, this is all something I've never contemplated,
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: so I don't have a solid answer yet. We'll work
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: through it as we get through the chapter.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: But I honestly think that this is and that's where
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: I'm wondering if this is what the Dark One intended, right,
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: because in a lot of ways, it does break Rand.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: It does break him and makes him the last that
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: can be done has been done, and he is then
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: ready to destroy the world, right, And that is exactly
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: what I think the Dark One wants. On the other hand,
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: I do think the True Power was used without his permission.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Hmmm.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: I mean, in so many ways, it's the killing of men,
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: you know, the near killing of men, the act of
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: trying to kill her. That is the last that could
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: be done. Like, I question how much accessing the true
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: power makes it worse, you know, like because if he
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: had an access the true power, he would have completed
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: killing her right right, So like he's at this point,
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: like the that threshold has been crossed over and then
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: kind of however the situation falls out either way, he's
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: crossed the line that's going to make him screwy. But yeah,
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: I just I don't see the dark one setting up
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: Sammara on a path to success here. I feel like
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: more than access to the collar would have guaranteed her escape,
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: you know, the caller feels like a trick to get
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: her to take herself out usefully.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: And I would say Rand has crossed the line into
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: feeling like Mordon, and that's why he's able to access
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: the true power.
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: But Mordan doesn't care about anybody exactly.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: That's the line that Rand crosses. After he that's the
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: last that can be done to him. He reaches that
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: point of not caring about anything anymore, but.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: He does still care. That's why it's the last that
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: could be done. Is because he cares about minso much,
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: Like the pain of hurting her is what drives him
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: to that line. And I don't think that's how Mordon
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: got there. I don't know.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: There's this line. Well, we should talk about it more
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: when we get to those lines, because I want to
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: use evidence.
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: Okay, all right, So shout at Hern tells Samurag you
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: have one last chance, and then she goes out and
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: runs into Elsa, who is like, hey, I have compulsion
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: on my mind. You should take it out and then
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: I'll be your little minion. And also here's here's the
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: sad bracelets in the collar. So Sammarag's like, all right, sweet,
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: I can do this. This is gonna be awesome. Also,
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: I get a little entertainment watching Elsa twitch in the
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: throes of compulsion being removed.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Question, what compulsion is that on Elsa? Is that Varren's
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: compulsion or is that the compulsion of shadow Haran on
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: her to go do these things?
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: You know, I've I was wondering that, and I completely
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: forgot that Varren had compulsion there because I was like, yeah,
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: I guess Shada Haran gave her compulsion, but I don't
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: see why, because she's already a dark rand. You'd think
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: that shadow Kuran could just command her. But oh my god,
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: I bet it totally was Varren, because I bet that
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: Varren's instructions included protecting Rand mm hmmm, right, m hm,
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: like in some convoluted way, but you know, making sure
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: he makes it to the last battle, et cetera, et cetera.
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I I never thought of that, but I
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: bet you're right. I bet it is Varren's compulsion being
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: identified by the Dark One and being you know again,
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: like the dark One knows things and it is just like, hey, Sammarak,
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: why don't you just LODDI do all your way into
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: a spectacular death.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Well, and the compulsion was put there by dark friend, right,
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: it was right? So did Varon report that? Like, what's this?
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: Are they suspecting Varren? Like what's going on here?
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: I bet Shadow Horan just has spidy senses for knowing
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: when someone's mind has been altered, like the fact that
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: leaves on her head, right, because they like itch when
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: they feel channeling. So I bet that Shadow Haran has
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: like extra you know, night vision for leaves or whatever.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: The three guards on the ground, one of them is dead.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: She looks and says, oh, three corpses, but actually only
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: one out of the three is dead.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, two of them are knocked out, and then yet
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: Diaigion is killed. I don't know why they killed her
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: or not going to kill the other two. It seems
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: like you could have just knocked all three of them out,
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: But I guess any less channelers is good for the
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: dark one.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, the reason they didn't kill the other two,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: they say, is because they had warders and that would
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: have alerted them. So it seems like they're just like
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Dark Friend's default is killed them. But oh, if we
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: kill these two, the warders would know that their sister
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: has been killed, so they would have alerted.
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but they still got to kill as many as
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: possible exactly.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: Well, that's just, of course, that's default. You're a Dark Friend.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: Bodies are a whole different kind of complication. Seems like
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: three knocked out people would be just as effective as
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: two knocked out people and one dead person whatever.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: I'm not arguing with you on that one. Whatever they
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: took out then isid Eye though, right, she is the
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: weakest I sid Eye. She's the lowest of all the
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: I sid Eye on the power scale, the least.
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: A threat, the least of a threat to all of them,
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: because you know her brain couldn't possibly factor and only
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: her power level. She was an ally to Katswain, who's
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: about to get thrown out on her ass.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: So there's that about time.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: Oh we get a little clue here that the domination
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: Eman part of why Samarog knows about it is because
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: it was crafted during the breaking. Oh no, that she
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: wouldn't have known about it because she was locked up
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: before the breaking. This is one of those things, right
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: that's always confusing, is like how did they figure out
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: a bunch of technology that happened after they were sealed away.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: I mean it's imagine if you see the iPhone like
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: twenty you'd be like, oh, yeah, that was totally made
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: like right after the Age of Legends, and you see
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: like it's corrupted. You're like, oh yeah, that's that's totally
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: made during the breaking, right, Like yeah, sure, you know
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: you can recognize technology. It's related to what you were doing,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: but maybe more advanced or altered in some way or
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: corrupted in some way, right, Like it's why they're able
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: to understand calendar really well, or you know, these things
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: were all made during the breaking and also right like
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: they weren't sealed up until after the breaking, well beginning
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: to breaking, You're right, right, right, right, But during the
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: War of Power there was they were. They weren't sealed
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: up until the very end of that, right, so they were.
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: It does seem to like the domination bands are something
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: that would have been invented to try to deal with
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: mad mail channels, right, It wouldn't have There wouldn't have
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: been that need.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Before exactingly, and my head canon that the dominion bands
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: existed first and the a doms were poor copies of those.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: Once the concept of controlling male channelers was out, it
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: was like, well, we'll be good to control female channel
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: or exactly still on the.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: Table, that's we could try that.
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I totally agree with that had canon order
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: of events because.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: We know right that sean chan I said I invented them,
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: But where did she get the idea?
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: Right right right? Yeah, one assumes from the shattered fallout
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: of the Breaking that was being carried over to shan
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: Chan or whatever, or was already in shawn Chan, because
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: we don't mean there was clearly stuff going on before
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: ARDA Hawking showed up Arda Hawking's Sun.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: Sorry, And it's canon that there are copies of this
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: thing made right. This is we don't even know if
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: this is the original, this could be a copy of
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: the original.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: I believe that we've gone over this. Yes, so yeah,
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: Simmarrock's happy. Now she's got one last chance and a
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: pistol with one bullet in it. She's good to go.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: And so we pov switched ruand obviously probably some time later,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: a few minutes later, really right, like somewhe wrong has
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: put on a costume. She's the cleaning lady going around
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: in the background.
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: Well, we start out out in the field. He's riding
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: a urse around with the generals first, so yeah, this
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: is more or less contemporaneous. But yeah, they're out there.
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: Rand and Loose there and are just sort of sharing
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: his head very like fifty to fifty. But also Italda
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: and Bashir are there, and Rand is touring the blight
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: to show Ieralda what the blight is, and I Terialda
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: and Bashi are like, you sure you want us policing
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: each other's countries? You sure that's the most efficient arrangement,
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: And Rand's like, for cold, terrible political reasons, yes, this
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: is the most efficient.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: Well, it's what he did with the Kyriene and the
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: Andorance and the tyrants. Right, is he like put them
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: all in each other's territory because they were all going
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: to betray him? Right? They were all this this pack
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: of nobles who he couldn't trust, and so he put
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: them all in each other's territory in order to isolate
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: them and make them not a threat. Did it work? No,
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: But he's doing it again, and these, unfortunately, are people
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: who are much more dedicated to him and much more
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: willing to fight for him. And it seems like it's
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: almost paranoia at this point rather than common sense.
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: And megalomania too, right, because I Toyralda says, you do
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: realize that, like taking fifty thousand foreign troops into a
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: country without permission is kind of like an act of war.
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: And RAN'SI, well, it's not an active war. If I'm
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: the dragon to be born and I'm fighting the dork one,
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: then it's fine. It's like, AD don't feel like that
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: was the most efficient way to handle this. Dude, like
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: he's kind of giving it. It's not breaking the law
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: if I'm saving the country kind of vibes you know,
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: like yeah, I don't like, yes, there's we haven't made
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: proper contact with Tanobia. The whole Borderlander situation is kind
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: of weird, but like there's there's some paranoid megalomania going
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: on with how he's just moving the little toy soldiers
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: around the board. At this point, I wanted.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: To talk a little bit about him getting sick when
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: he seizes the one power, right, because this is related
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: to the crossing of the streams. Right, This sickness started
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: when he crossed the streams with Mordon, but it ends
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: when he reintegrates. And I've always I've been thinking about that,
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, why does it end when it reintegrates.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: It doesn't make a lot of sense to me because
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: they seem unrelated to the crossing of the streams. But
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: today later when I think he sort of gets into
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Morden's body, I had a thought, he's very close to Morden.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: Him and Morden are the same pattern. Their souls are
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: kind of touching. Whatever it is. He can move sideways
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: into Mordan's body.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: Very easily, quantum entangled.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: And so every time he goes to seize the power,
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: he is fighting whatether you want to call it, himself
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: or our ltt the voice in his head. He's fighting
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: and in a lot of ways kind of repelling off
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: of himself and kind of bouncing, and that sort of
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: bounces him out of his body, and he sort of
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: vibrates into Mordan's body and then back into his own
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: as he's fighting himself for control of the power. Once
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: he's no longer fighting himself for control of the power,
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: he's much more solid in his body, and he doesn't
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: do this reverberation with Morodin anymore.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: M harmonic oscillation. That just is disturbing.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm thinking, is just because he himself is
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: so out of harmony, he's resonating with Moradin and that's
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: causing this vibration and nausea and sickness and stuff like that.
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: He's cross faded too many personalities, no.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Shit, he's got too many people in his head, right
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: and now he's got too many heads right literally right? Yeah, yeah,
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: So like there's this I think there's this weirdness where
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: he crosses over and I want to see it when
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: we get there.
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot of LTT ranting. None of
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: the men who can channel can be trusted. We should
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: never let them get so close to us. And then
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: you know, Rand, the mad man had trouble with other
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: men who could channel. And I always think in these
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: sex situations the madman is Rand talking about himself because
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: he is a mad man.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, the mad man hissed, sputtered and yelled. There's
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: all these little lines are like hand.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: You know, he's.
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: Thinking, the most dangerous enemies were those you assumed you
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: could trust. That's not in italics, Rand, No.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: The things Lewis Thearren says are almost the more sane
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: things that Ran thinks.
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: They're both pretty bonkers at this point. They're both having
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: a bad day right now.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: The night where he had dreamed of Morden, there have
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: been no Lewis then in his mind, right. We talked
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: about that. That was when he was in Lewis Thearren's
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: head completely. He had gone over into his dream. So
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: then there was no taint in his body, right, So
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: here's no sanity.
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was going to point out
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: the next line like that he does still have fear
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: and connection to his human emotions, because it twists his
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: belly to note that his dreams aren't safe anymore. It's
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: like I think of him as being so frozen and cold,
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: and it's like, no, he's admitting to having like internal
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: fear and anxiety because his dreams had been a refuge.
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: He does still have a sense of there's a refuge
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: for me, it is my dreams. I can at least
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: have that, and like that it is upsetting to him
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: to lose that, as like, oh, yeah, there's one last
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: little shred of humanity. Bye bye.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Still yeah for now, yeah, till the end of this chapter.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: And then the next thing I've got is he's thinking
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: about men and how she wants him to be, you know,
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: soft and kind, and he thinks, could a man who could.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: Men didn't want him to be hard?
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: I mean, she wants him to be hard, but like
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: not for more than four hours.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: If your emotions turned to gwendyare for more than four hours,
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: you may want to see a psychiatrist.
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: Basically, the next thing I wanted to talk about is
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: could a man who could laugh also be the man
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: who could face what needed to be done at Shale? Cool?
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: This is a really critical thing, right Kad Sawayne thinks
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: exactly the inverse of what he's thinking here, Right, Rand
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: thinks a man who can laugh can't possibly do what
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: needs to be in a show Gool kad Swain and
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: everyone else who reads the prophecies are saying, you have
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: to be the kind of man who can laugh in
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: order to do what needs to be done. At Shildgool,
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: if you're allowed to drive this ship, you're going to
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: drive us straight.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Into the ground, one hundred percent right. You need that
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: ability to be empathetic to be because like, think about
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: what the last battle for him ended up being. It
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: ended up being a contest of wills about the good
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: in humanity and why they deserve to live. And if
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: you can't laugh and see that laughter isn't a huge
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: port part of why we deserve to live, you're not
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: going to win that battle.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: No, If you don't value laughter and joy and love,
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: if you don't personally value and experience those things, you're
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: gonna choose the nihilistic path when the dark one offers
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: nothing as an alternative to struggle, Like, if you don't
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: value laughter, if you can't experience laughter, why would you
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: pick anything other than nothing?
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: No, Rand, Oh.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: God, here's one thing that I didn't I don't think
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: I ever grasped before. Is Rand's interpretation of the line
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: to live you must die the answer one of his
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: three questions, right, and we always know that, Oh yeah,
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: to live, you've got to go through and like defeat
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: the dark one and have your blood on the rocks,
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: and your body has to die. And then we find
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: out what that means. Here he thinks in order to live,
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: in order to have a living legacy, basically in order
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: for humanity to continue. And remember you you have to
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: die at shale Ghul to preserve everything.
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: I mean, if the dragon is one with the land,
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: and the land is one with the dragon, then the
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: land continuing to live means he lives. Right. It's not
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: the worst interpretation from where he's sitting.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: True, true, but yeah, but he's still in this mindset
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: of I will die. It's just I will hopefully have
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: some sort of legacy. But then he sets himself out
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: and is like a there is no point in thinking
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: beyond the last battle. Whatever happens happens, despite the school,
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: despite his you know, making everybody sign peace threats, Well,
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: that happens later, but for now the fact that he's
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: trying to keep all the people alive and create peace
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: with Sean Chan.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: Right, yeah, because I mean, ultimately, once you sort out
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: the slavery thing, you are going to have to coexist
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: with these people. You don't want to all be dead,
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: you want to be alive and coexisting. That is the
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: long term goal.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, when one people comes back to what they would
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: call their ancestral land and attempt to live on it,
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: when another people already occupies that space, it really creates
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: some political drama that can cause and like, you really
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: don't want to wipe out one of those people. You know,
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: you really need a state right of the shan Chan
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: and the state of Ran. We're going to call it
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: this two state solution, which is probably better than what
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: we have going on right now.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: And I think the branding needs a little work. Yeah,
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: rand as a state out on I don't.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Know, well, rand Land is a state, and I.
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: Don't know if we need one. One man's personality stamped
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: quite so hard on everything, but go off.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: I guess fine, a lane Land, A lane Land, Yay equality.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: She leads the coalition at the end of the in
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: the last Yeah.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: I like in a Vianda's vision the name it's like
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: the Pact of the Griffin. Like that's that's some good branding.
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: Packed to the Griffin is some good branding. Yeah, so
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: then loose Thearren does some ranting about how men is
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: pretty and correct both the same time. Yeah. Randers basically
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: has a whole muttered conversation with Louce there and doesn't
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: even think about how it's affecting everyone around him, Like
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: he's so deep in his own madness at this point.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: And this is where he gets a couple of clues. Right,
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: he gets one he confirms the idea that you do
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: have to break the old seals in order to have
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: to sweep way the rubble, right, in order to break
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: create the new ones. And you get the clue that
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: you can't touch the dark One with sidine or and
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: then he logically concludes sidar right, because you're just gonna
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: taint whatever you touch him.
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: With critical information.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: Critical information, which then leads to him channeling the one
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: thing that he can't touch the Dark One with, which
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: is the dark One himself. It's like, why are you
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: punching yourself? He just takes the Dark One's own power
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: and like hits him in the face with it, right,
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: And that's how he's able to clog up the hole.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: Which makes no sense to me. That feels like a
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: self defining definition, you know.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: But whatever, So okay again, this is where I come
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: back to the fact that the Dark One is not
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: willingly giving Rand access to the True Power. He's giving
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: it to Morden. And because of the Bronze Dagger. The
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: Bronze Dagger is really important here. He doesn't realize how
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: it's being used. He thinks Morden is using it against
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: Rand in the battle because.
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: He could have withdrawn it if he'd known.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: That's what I think. Yes, he knows it's.
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: Rand now because Rand doesn't have the Bronze Dagger yet.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Well, yes, And that's where I'm wondering if maybe this
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: whole thing was set up to drive him over the
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: edge and to grant him access to to take Darth Rand,
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: turn him over Darth, and give him access to the
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: one thing that was locked up from him. He didn't
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: have access before the Children Call.
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: He didn't need the True Power to have access to
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: the Children Call though.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: No, but giving him access to the True Power, which
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: gives him despair, giving him access and makes him basically
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: betray his whole purpose of you know, an avatar or
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: the Great or whatever right he shouldn't be touching that power.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: Sure, sure, Jesus should not be channeling Satan's powers.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right, making him despair, doing the last that
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: can be done, and giving him access to the power
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: to destroy the world. Right, that's the whole thing up
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: in veins of gold. Is he destroys the children call,
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: he's going to use it to take out the world.
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: Like, Oh, you're a nihilistic enough to be trusted with
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: this loaded gun. That could also so like seal me
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: away forever.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: Right, So I'm you know, but I but I like
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: your point that maybe the Dark One didn't want to
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: give him access to the true power. He wanted to
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: give him access to everything else.
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. It's because rand does need something
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: more powerful than the regular one power to destroy the world, right,
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: Like an army of Madman could only rearrange the continents
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: and raise mountains, right like, they couldn't destroy the planet.
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: So one man is going to need something a bit
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: stronger if we want to end the world. So you
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: do have to prepare him to point that nuclear option
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: in the right direction.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: Right, But the children Call certainly fulfills that as the
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: you know, world ending nuke it certainly has enough power
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: to do that by itself.
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but he has to choose to do that, and
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: having access to the dark One's power does definitely. It
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: just escalates his higher sense of his options, right, Like
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: his whole Overton window of acceptable options kind of cranks.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: Up right right. And he also ends up carrying around
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: the children call as an alternative to the true power.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: He's like, well, yeah, I could either have world just
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: ending power on my left hand or you know, sole
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: ending power on my right hand, and if I can't
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: decide between two of them, I'm not going to use either.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: It's how I use my Amazon cart, right, Like, I
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: just put a bunch of stuff in my cart, and
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: if I can't decide between them, I don't buy anything.
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: It's great, Yeah, I've done that. Yeah, it's complicated cosmology
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: going on here.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: You know. He talks a little bit about his emotions.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: He curses the voice because it doesn't have the solution, right,
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: you don't actually know. You still have to think about it.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: He hasn't figured out about this third power yet. I
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: think it's interesting. He thinks about tam.
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, he thinks about home and how like he's
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: so many emotions that like maybe the facade is real
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: and like, oh man, he wants to see Tam so bad,
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: but it would be bad. It would be really bad
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: if he saw Tam. And I'm just like Kat Swayne,
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: for all her flaws, knows that you really want to
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: see your dad. She knows that you need a big
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: dad hug. She's figured that much out.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if she figures it out or
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: if she tries it out of desperation. I mean, by
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: the end of this chapter, she really has no idea
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: what's going on.
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: Right for the wrong reasons or wrong for the right reasons.
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: It's fine, it's fine.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: It works. It works, it.
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: Works because that's what Randy's rand really needs, a big
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: old hug from his dad.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: Oh. Also, like Hal, he says at the last battle,
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: he would not be able to lean on anyone other
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: than himself. And think about except you know, Moran and
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: Ninive in the cave with you.
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: Right, and also Tom guarding the entrance, and also Paren
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: and Gall in the dream. Like there's so many people
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: dedicated to helping you get through the literal last battle,
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: like aside from fighting the battle, Like, there's so many
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: people in your orbit cifically protecting you, like, sir, sir, sir, sir,
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: Toxic individualism is not going to do it. You need
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: a community, you need community care, you need friends, you
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: need support. You cannot do this on your own.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: So they're still at Lord Tullane's place, and he's complaining
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: about the smoke because of the bubble of veal. That
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: dude who exploded into black.
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: Tar, this Adrin the lava man.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he turned into lava. So RAN's compensating in for
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: the smoky smell apparently.
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's the burned building. I think
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: it's the repair of the part of that because if
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: there's just a tarp in the place of the front door,
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: like the building is trashed.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: Oh, I had a coworker's house caught fire recently. Yikes,
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: maybe don't include all those details. I don't have his
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: permission to share that story for public consumption.
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: We can say house fires, even small ones that get contained,
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: can really trash a lot of stuff. So Lord Tulay
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: and being like, can I have some insurance to like
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: clean my house that can never be cleaned and like
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: rebuild the entire front foyer, like please, Ran through the
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: dragon reborn can I have a little insurance pay.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: Out and you don't know what was in that Dark
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: One tar smoke, right, that was some toxic shit that like,
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: that's not normal bad firehouse burning.
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm assuming some like heavy metals, like some serious carcinogens.
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: Like it was bad. It is bad. That was bad stuff.
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: I gave a little talk the other day at a
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: little rant to some friends about very specific volcano in
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: Iceland and a very specific eruption, and it was particularly
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: toxic fumes that came out of that one, Lots and
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: lots of fluoride. So I'm imagining that the Dark One
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: was doing some really toxic lava, Like there's there's more
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: and less toxic lava. I'm assuming that this was like
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: eleven out of ten on the toxic scale, like people
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: are getting floridos. It's just from looking at it, you
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: know it's bad.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: I feel like the next couple of pages is mostly
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: him thinking about living after the last battle and his legacy.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: He's starting to sort of get more memories of the past.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: He can almost remember the desperation of trying to seal,
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: the making the decision to seal the Dark Ones bor
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: without the female half.
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well him on this there, and the veil is
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: getting very thin. Yes, it's really eroding. With every subsequent
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: time that they're sort of switching back and forth, like
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: the veil's getting thinner.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you'd think that he would stop getting more insane
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: with the taint pleans, but it feels like he's just
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: wearing away, and like that veil is getting thinner, and
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: his memories are getting clearer, and like, yeah, something's still happening,
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: and if.
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: That integration happens badly, he's going to be two people
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: at once. Right, it happens in a good way where
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: he synthesizes them, but like otherwise he could just be
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: two people at the same time. We've also got the
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: introduction of a very Sandersonian thing, very Mormon thing.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: Oh bring it up, fall.
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: Still voice, the small still voice inside, that's actually his voice.
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: It's like I read a bunch of Mormon literature for
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: a while, just because cultural Safari stuff. And the still
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: small voice is such a phrase. It's such a phrase.
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: It gets used all the time in all of their
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: little stories that confirm their faith in their little magazine,
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: and it's just such a not Robert Jordan Turner phrase.
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: And it's such a Mormon thing, and it just fits
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: so well into how rand Like moves through the Darth
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: moves through the LTT.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: Where's the phrase? Still, small voice, what can you give
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: a context on that?
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: And will you have no legacy other than that? A
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: voice whispered in the back of his mind, not loose
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: there in but his own thought, A small voice, the
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: part of him that had prompted him to found schools
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: and Kyrie and andor it comes up again and again
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: when he's doing his veins of Gold thing, or when
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: he I think, when he throws tam to the ground
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: before veins of Gold like. The small voice goes silent,
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: like it's just an interjection of the new author vibe.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: I sure, well, I can defend it in the idea
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: that now essentially ran his flipped right. The part of
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: him that is the farm boy, the part of him
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: that was that young kid, the part of him that
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: wasn't insane is still there in the back of his head.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: But he's really just this insane dictator.
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: Now right, Yeah, no, for sure, for sure.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: And the small voice is being like, hey, you wouldn't
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: have done this five years ago, buddy, Like you really
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: shouldn't be being this terrible, and Rand's like, no, but
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: this is what I have to be. This is what
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: I have to be. Shut up. And so from that
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: perspective where we've sort of seen this flip and this
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: transition where Farmer Rand was the voice up front and
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: what you heard was this insane ranting in the back
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: of his head that scared you. Now, really the person
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: up front is the person who's insane.
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, no, for sure. It fits in the cosmology.
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: Just agree, And like, certainly I have like a thousand
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: voices in my head yelling at me about things all
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: the time, so like, I get it. But it's just
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: it's just a little mechanic that I've noticed fair enough.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I mean, and it's something I've seen other
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: authors use. But that's I didn't realize it was Mormon
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: coded for you.
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I just spent a few years, was really like
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: reading their stuff and it was just like that was
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: a very recurrent piece of their storytelling toolkit. So it
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: stands out. But like you said, it really fits into
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: the cosmology of this character too.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: And I do feel like it's something I see a
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: lot in fantasy literature that there's this introspective voice that
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: it's like, what are you doing, buddy? You really shouldn't
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: be using that magic Wand but I get it anyway,
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: you know, like, yeah.
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: Sure, we get a mention of snakes and foxes, which
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: is fun, just reminding us of the rules. As a
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: Matt slowly creeps towards the Tower of Genji.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: Mmmm, you got a time that, right? I can't rescue
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: her too early. We can't have too many scenes with
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: Moraine in these books.
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: That would be terrible.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: Well, he has no idea how to write her, so
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: that yeah.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: From there we get into him talking to him in
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: and having a real good heart to heart and thinking
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: that maybe he's gone too far, while this serving woman
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: just sort of bustles in the background and it's really
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: annoying and ca'd she hurry up? And like why is
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: she getting so much screen time? I'm trying to have
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: a heart art with my wife over here, And then click.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah no, And there's a moment right before he
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: gets called where she's like, She's right, I've grown too harsh.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: What will become of me? If I grow suspicious of
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: those I know love me, I'll be no better than
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: mad Lewis Thearren and it's like, yeah, that's where he's going,
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: and like she was pulling him back from that, they
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: had a chance to stop him from going super dark,
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: and then essentially events transpired where he jumped off the
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: deep end.
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, Samarog really couldn't have picked a more perfect
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: last moment at which to create stick this stick in
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: the spokes you know, taverin Yeah, tavern. But like dark
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: and U, it's a bad time's a bad time.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: And what proceeds is kind of a I would almost
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: call it an action scene. There's some stuff I do
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: want to talk about though, but like, oh man, it's
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: definitely an action scene.
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: Things are moving fast for the next couple of pages.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, The next couple of pages portray what thirty
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: seconds in actual time.
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: As many as fifty yeah, right, yeah, yeah, it's very
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: quick because there's the moment where like, you know, oh,
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: els is gonna save us. Oh shit, El's is actually
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: a bad guy. Like there's a few things transpared, but yeah,
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: shit's happened fast.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: So she clicks on I love men's reaction and immediately
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: throw a dagger at the forsaken as fast as you can.
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: You know she's from nearby to the Two Rivers. She's
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: definitely of these throw things, asked questions later school of thought.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: And so she gets her second cut in on Zamara,
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: which you know it makes her more badass.
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: Well and also known as a cut on Semarrog's face,
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: which just makes her even more scary hot.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm Nope, I'm sorry.
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: The scary ladies exciting, but now she's got the cheek,
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: the cheap thing, and it's you know.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: The cheap thing in a domination band? Is that really
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: what you're into?
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: Look, everyone knows cheeks scars are hot. Okay, I don't.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Make the rules, my brain does, though.
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: I do love Min's boldness though, just being like anyone
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: attacking rand throw knives. Don't care who they are, don't
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: care how powerful they are, I don't care what their
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: reputation is.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: Knives first, which makes a lot of sense considering the
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: amount of time she trains and how much she has
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: them in her sleeves. Like it gets it's you know,
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: Chehov's knives, right they Yes, Jordan talks about them constantly,
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: and it's nice to see her actually throwing them every once.
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: In a while, right mm hmm, Yeah, finally, finally, and
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: she manages to like hurt a Forsaken at all, like
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: big points to her as a non powered mirror mortal.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: So yeah, Elsa walks in looking pretty rough because she's
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: had the compulsion taken off of right, right, Yeah, but
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: now she's pissed because I think she was compelled to
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: protect Rand.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean.
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: It was all still for her own reasons, but yeah,
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: she's tagging along with Samarag going I definitely signed up
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: for this. This is what I expected being a dark
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: friend to be.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, you gotta admit. There's a moment where she
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: is pretty like, oh fuck, yeah, I just took grand prisoner.
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: We are going to I'm gonna be like top notch
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: new Forsaken, right Like, I'm going to get all the
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: accolades for that. And then Rand starts getting tortured and
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: she starts realizing she's in way over her head.
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she's like ooh, oh that's what we're doing.
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: Oh and then she's snuffed out of existence.
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she doesn't have long to regret her decision. But yeah,
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: Rand has the very like terrible, horrible experience of being
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: like trapped in his own body. He even has a
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: moment where he thinks like he's trapped, like loose there
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: and has been trapped right just riding along as a
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: passive passenger in someone else's head. And like, yes, pretty horrifying,
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: even before you get into the torturing other people with
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: your body that you can't control.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: Right, And they go into how the Dominion band is
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: different than the ADAM in that this just takes your
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: free will away. It doesn't deter you with pain, It
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: doesn't use nausea. You can give pain, for sure, but
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: it does not. You just lose free will and total
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: control over the nerves in your body. I feel like
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: the ADAM is uh because there's two types of nerves, right,
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: the ones that feel and the ones that control mm hmmmm,
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: And so I feel like the ADAM can only really
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: affect the ones that can feel, and so what it
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: does is provide crippling pain when you try and do
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: anything it doesn't want you to do, whereas the black
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: ADAM is able to control both and can actually control
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: your movements and stuff like that.
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: Right, which makes sense, right if the ADAM is a
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: knockoff downgrade from the Domination Band because of you know,
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: technology decay over the decades that it took to sort
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: out the breaking, it makes sense that it would be
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: less total than the earlier technology. So yeah, lois there
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: and RAND kind of merge together with a PTSD flashback
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: in the middle of all this torture, like, oh, we're
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: in the box. This is worse than the box. This
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: is the box.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: I don't know who I am, but I'm not gonna
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: scream anymore because the cup is officially overflowing and there's
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: no point anymore.
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: And he he remembers killing himself, which always think is
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: an interesting point because you know the desperation, you're in
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: the mindset of the person who has killed themselves out
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: of desperation, and like remembering that death, and also like
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: how important it is, I think to Veins of Gold
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: that he remembers killing himself and goes, killing myself wasn't enough.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: I'm back right, suicide, very Morgan. Suicide doesn't stop the experience,
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: And if you can remember killing yourself, you know that
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: that's not the end, right.
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: Right, miss Yeah, definitely is part of how a Shamo
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: ended up where he was at. So yeah, samarag is
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: a little bit frustrated and confused that Rand is denying
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: that she can do anything more to him, and then
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: she's like, I am the lady of pain. You really
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: think you can ultimatum me like that, let me do
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: literally one thing and immediately break you, right, because Rand's like,
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: I'm so tough, I don't care about anything. The second
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: that hert and and turns to men, he's like, back
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: to being normal, Rand and.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: Well, and he keeps saying, no more can be done
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: to me, no more can be done to me, And
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: it's like you said that once and then more was
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: done to you, and then you're saying it again, which
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: I think is like, in a lot of ways, yes,
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: it is the no more can be done to him moment,
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: but also like it never ends. There's always more people
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: to hurt, there's always more death, there's always more pain
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: that he can go through. And so in a lot
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: of ways, this this kind of proves that it doesn't
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: matter how much you go through, you still need to
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: be a good person. Right. Being bad doesn't fix any
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: of this, and it doesn't stop people from being hurt.
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know the fact that he thinks he's reached
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: the end of it, and I'm like no, no, no, no, no, no,
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: you can you can definitely still be hurt, Like yeah, yeah.
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: Maybe maybe be a little bit more cautious with those
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: ultimate statements.
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: But this so this is the first of two times
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: he says it right in this chap.
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, right, because he's like, yeah,
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: then that's that could be done. And then in later
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: chapters he's like, why am I still so angry? I
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: thought the last that could be done had been done.
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, no, the human capacity for suffering is
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: actually pretty much infinitely.
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: Expanded, just like our imagination.
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, brain plasticity is unfortunately a tool that cuts
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: both ways. So yeah, she tortures men and Rand with
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: torturing men, and they sort of iterate on that for
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: a bit and then Sammarag's like, I'm going to use
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: you to get out of here and it's going to
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: be fine, and RAN's like, oh no, I'm going to
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: literally be the tool that destroys my own armies. This
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: is going to be terrible, right.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: They're not gonna be able to kill me because I'm
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: the only one who can save the world, and they're
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: gonna worry that killing me will doom them, but they're
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: doomed anyway. Because I'm captured, right, yeah, all that kind
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: of stuff.
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: Right, So it's all cascading into one thing. And oh yeah,
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: and then he has to kill men, even though he
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: begged not to, because why would Samarack keep her promises?
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: You didn't.
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: She's like, oh yeah, I mean I considered your request
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: and I decided not to, like you know, I'm Samarog whatever.
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: And then she uses a slowly descending trap which he
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: cannot escape and turns her back. I just the I
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: don't know, is she he could have you know, had
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: her had him barbecue me in in half a second,
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: and he couldn't have done this thing and reacted. But
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: the slow death, the slow torturous death, gives him time
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: to flail about and find something in order to attack her.
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: When the villain gloats at the end, that's when the
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: hero wins.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this is really her mistake. He caught him
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: on a log.
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: Villa never gloats. Yeah, exactly exactly. The evil monologue like,
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: come on, Summarog, I know you're evil. I know you're
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: twirling your mustache, but like be smart. But no, she
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: is not smart.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: And uh, visually I always think of it with two hands,
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: but he only has one hand to choke her out with.
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it's and and the writing is very good.
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: Whoever was doing the editing on this went through with
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: a fine tooth comb and made sure I had reference
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: to one hand. I didn't spot any errors on that. Yeah.
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: And then he's so desperate that he somehow breaks through
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: the barrier between him and Morden and grabs a hold
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: of the dark one.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he grew cold. Then that coldness vanish and he
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: could feel nothing, no emotion, no anger. In a lot
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: of ways, this is the opposite of the flame in
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: the void. This is the frozen in the void.
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: This is like instead of feeding his emotions into a flame,
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: he's freezing them away. Yeah, and you know, like freezing
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: and burning creates a lot of the same effects. But
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: this puts him at a point, This coldness puts him
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: at a point where I think he's in the same
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: mind frame as Mordan, Right this, no emotions, feeling nothing,
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: feeling cold like Mordan just wants to die. He has
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: no emotions other than that. Yeah, and so at this point,
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: I think that's where the next sentence, At that moment,
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: he grew aware of a strain force It was like
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: a reservoir of water boiling and churning just beyond his view.
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: He reached toward it with his mind. A clouded face
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: flashed before Rand's own, one whose features he couldn't quite
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: make out. It was gone in a moment. So as
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: he's reaching for the true power, he's basically reaching through
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: Morden's face face. He sees Morden's face as he's reaching
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: for that power, he's reaching through Mordan's body for that power.
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: So do you think that that also helps disguise his
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: activity to the dark? Wendy absolutelyns knife in the picture, because,
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: like Morden is the point of contact.
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmmm, he's feeding the power to Mordon, who's in
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: that place and time, and that's all he knows.
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, that does definitely seem like there's some
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: Moredon getting immeshed into that signal.
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: The clouded face has to be Mordan, right, That's the
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: only faces, no other faces that he's seeing, right, like
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: the repeatedly the two men merging into one, he thinks
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: it's ltt, it's not.
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: It's Morden, right, Yeah, no, yeah, I totally agree. Yeah,
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: there's no other face that flashes before his eyes, and
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: Morden's the only one with access to the power and
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: I do.
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: And it's between him reaching for the power and him
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: filling himself with the power. He sees the face like
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: paragraph one reaching face filled with power.
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I've always mentally pretzeled myself
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: so hard trying to figure out how the Dark One
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: was for d chessing by intending this to happen. And
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: it's so much simpler to just be like, nah, the
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: Dark One is in fact fallible and the Mordon bail
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: fire stream crossing, like actually, just that's such a simpler
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: explanation than all the pretzels I've been trying to run
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: myself through, Like, nah, let's just go with the simple
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: explanation that the Dark One literally had the situation get
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: away from him, because.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: Who, there's no way to foresee the crossing of the
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: bail fire streams because that's weirdly outside the pattern and
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: cause the pattern to do something that it wouldn't normally do,
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: which is overlap two threads.
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: Well, and also like you have two things that are
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: pushing backwards in time at the same time, so it's
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: like can it even exist on the timeline at all. Right,
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: the echo, the hole itself never existed, Like, very hard
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: for a temporal reality to grasp that. Even though the
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: Dark One is outside of time, he's pretty connected to
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: time also, so like it's a weird blind spot on
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: the radar because the whole.
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: Thing is he's trapped by the wheel. He experiences time
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: even though he's outside of it, and so he hates that.
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: Right, So like bailfire on biolfire kind of creates a
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: timeless hole that would be hard to grasp the implications
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: of I like it, light blinded fool in the chat,
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: Rand strangling men makes him harder. Thanks Brandon, even Archie
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: didn't go there. I made the choice to read that
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: into the recording.
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: You did, you certainly did so. Rand embraces the true power.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: I love Louis Terren's reaction, Oh, light loose thereon suddenly
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: scream that's impossible. We can't use it, cast it away.
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: That is death. We hold death and betrayal. It is him, right,
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: they're holding the Dark One's power. Yeah, and Louis that
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: reacts appropriately. I think in this case, yeah, no loose.
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: Aren's reaction is rational. I would say, m yeah, I
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: really like your idea that this is the opposite of
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: the flame, like it's cold. It's the same thing, but
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: just from the other end of the temperature spectrum. It's
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: just that that mirror inversion is that's just really perfect
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: for this, especially with the way that loose Thearon is like, Look,
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: I might be insane, but I know not to fuck
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: with that.
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: Like, and that's the different way of either way. You
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: have to burn away your motions. But whether you put
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: them in the cold or whether you put them in
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: the flame, lets you embrace one or the other.
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: M hmmm. And yeah, the true power is to the
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: one power, what the one power is to regular life.
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: It's more, bigger, better, extra jumbo supersize. Reality is more.
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: It is more.
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: Someone discovered he liked pain in a different kind of way,
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: which is very appropriate for the semarog chapter. Yeah, but right,
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: he screamed in both rapture and rage.
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: As painful as it was, it was also pure ecstasy.
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's uh. You know, the Dark One and Samarrock
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: have more in common than the Dark One and some
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: of the other For a second, you know, they have
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: a couple of extracurricular interest overlaps. I don't think the
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: Dark One's much for music, you know, like, but the
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: Dark One clearly likes the pleasure pain thing. I just
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: don't see the Dark One having a lot.
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: No, are you saying Asmodium is not the Dark One's favorite.
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: Asmodian's nickname is musician. Okay, he doesn't have a cool name,
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: he doesn't have a cool reputation. He was just like,
• 58:53
  Speaker 3: you know, the the strata vary of of their world.
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: Like that's it, you know.
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: And as far as i'm a he is the only
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: Forsaken that isn't bail fired. Well, we can argue whether
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: or not he was bail fired, but he was the
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: only Forsaken who wasn't ever given a second chance, who died,
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: who didn't die by like ran bail fire or marine
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: bail firing them right, Like all the other Forsaken that
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: died were given a second chance.
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: He was deemed having had one chance too many. Oh yeah, yeah,
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: I just I don't think the Dark One was big
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: on music.
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: No, I'm I'm highly convinced that. Like, he wasn't even
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: bail fired. He was just killed, and the Dark One
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: was like, oh yeah, there he goes. Anyway, God, we're
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: done with that, right, the same thing he did when
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: Agenor was killed the second time when when he got
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: you know, barbecue does along with the hilltop. The dark
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: one didn't was like, oh, let me grab that soul
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: really quick. Also he was in the middle of the
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: battle Rand, but like he wasn't like, oh let me
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: grab that one really quick. He was just like, yeah,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: that's that was pretty useless, but you can keep on going.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like I had a couple of fresh ones
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: lined up to take new those slots at anyway, We'll
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: just we'll just let that one go.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: Oh no, that was in the last battle, that was
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: during the cleansing. Yeah, and he totally could have grabbed
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: them at that point, and that we could have got
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: him come.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: Back and didn't care to.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: No, didn't care to, no need because he was kind
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: of useless as a spy against Rand, right, like he
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: never did anything of any importance.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I had no influence with anyone, much less Rand.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: So Simrock has a moment to realize that she's been
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: betrayed before Rand true power bail fires her, and then
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: and Elsa has a second to start running before he
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: true true power bail fires her as well.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I like how he goes from I won't kill
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: women to I will kill Elsa as she runs away.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: Just watch she held the other handle of the collar.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: She was controlling him.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: Sure, but she's like terrified not taking action and then
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: turns to run and he without.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: He's like, no, dark friends gone, yeah.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: Double taps both of them like out, like literally as
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: he was about like as he was going to kill men,
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: He's like, I'm not gonna kill a woman, and like
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: thirty seconds later he's like, no, both of these bitches
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: are done.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm. No, he's he's gone through transition for sure.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: He's like he's gone to a deeper level of willingness
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: to kill women.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and way beyond what loose there and can comprehend
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: LuSE there and is like I would have rather killed
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 3: my wife again than done that.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Well, I think he's talking about embracing the
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: true power.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: Exactly exactly, like that's what but that's what Rand had
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: to do to be able to kill them. Was like
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: embrace the true power and loose there and is just like,
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: oh yeah, the killing women thing is nothing against the
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: power we're using to do it, like oh god, no, no.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: No, yeah. So he loses the true power and that
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: leaves him numb. No, okay, he says, Oh no, the
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: numbness had nothing to do with the power he held.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: That numbness is sort of him breaking that that's the
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: last that could be done. That's the coldness he gets.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: That's the idea that he has to be numb to
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: embrace the true power, not the other way around.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: And also just the numbness of like I can't be
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: soft for men, I can't even protect men, right, Like
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: this is him crystallizing from steel to Queendyar. It's like
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 3: that's the numbness. Quindyar does not have a nervous system.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: Apparently stealed it, but Quindyar doesn't.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: And I'm convinced at that moment, Morgan's sitting there going
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: what the fuck just happened?
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, no more definitely like dropped his cup of
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: tea right like yeah.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: Like it was just like, holy shit, I feel like
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: I'm channeling right, like something was going on with him,
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: probably got more saw in his eyes stuff like that.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, totally totally, Like I mean, because you know the
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: other people who are bonded to rand All felt something right,
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: like a Vianda's the one who raises the alarm because
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: she was like, that nightmare feels way too real, like right,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: because we get with her later and she thinks that
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: she had a small amount of toe for not realizing
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: what was happening, because she just assumed it was a nightmare,
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: and then it turns out it was really But she's
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: the one that raised the alarm, So one assumes that
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: Mordon also felt something if a Vianda felt something, particularly
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: with the touching of the dark one, Like, I don't
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 3: see how Morden could possibly have been ignorant of that
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 3: as it happened, Yeah, exactly. Morton suddenly realizing that he's
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: an access key. Yeah, well we have the slow motion
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: falling cup shot and it shatters on the ground and
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: the tea goes everywhere and like and yeah. Then rand
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: looks at men and says, sorry, babe, I'm gonna have
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 3: to be the worst.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he would be hard. Now he understood how where
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: he'd once been steel, he would become something else. From
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: now on, he was quendy are. He had entered a
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: place like the void that Tam had trained him to
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: seek so long ago. But within this void, he had
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: no emotion none at all. They could not break or
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: bend him. It was done.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: Turns the page to the next chapter, because it is
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: in fact not done done yet. We have a whole
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 3: ass another book to go through, two books to go through.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: It's not done.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: So yeah, the next chapter is uh Cot Swayin's pov
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: so and the symbols of.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: The Dragon A warp in the air, Yes, that's the dragon.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so the warp in the air is the darkness
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: around him that she sees out of the corner of
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: her eye, which is his connection to the dark One,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: his taint of the dark One, his use of the
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: true power. What do you think.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: I think it's kind of like the thing that lets
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: is side or channelers feel like shadow spawn. I think
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: it's something like that. He's sort of giving off shadow
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: spawn energy, like the vibes on the metaphysical level that
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: channelers are able to just sort of pick up on.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: I remember that Tame has been teaching a weave like
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: this to his people, like a menacing weave that's in
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: the Ashaman tool kit for a while. It's like Rand
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 3: just has that on constantly.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 5: Now.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so we joined Kat Swayn and she's asking what
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: the hell happened and what happened to the sisters guarding
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: the cell? And we get the information that only one
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: of them died that we talked about in the last chapter.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: And here's here's something I wanted to ask you about.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 3: Kat Sway nodded Crossley, of all the knights to be
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: out visiting the Wise Ones in their tents, of all
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: the knights to be visiting the Wise Ones in their tents.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: There's no way that's a coincidence. And shod Huron just
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 3: happened to pick that by coincidence, right, Like Katswyn had
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 3: to have been invited off site in a way that like,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: like that had to have been deliberate, right.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: Why would he care about killing cod swayin.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 3: Like killing Godswain? What Katswain's not dead?
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, but like why would they Why would
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: the Dark One arrange to have her outside the tents
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: or wait until why wouldn't you just come in? And
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: why wouldn't the Shadahran kill her like he killed the
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: other two or other one?
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 3: I guess because her paralys net has unknowns on it.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: Maybe yeah, like maybe she's got powers that they don't
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 3: know about, and they just decided that it would be
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 3: much easier to pull this off if she was not
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 3: on site.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: I think it's I do think it's just a coincidence.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: I think that she just no, you okay, why not?
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: Why would it be a how severian?
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 3: Really? You think that Saveria made it just a coincidence?
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: I got nothing, I got nothing, I got no way
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: to justify that she they waited. Why would they wait
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: until she was out of the tent. That doesn't make
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: sense to me, Like why would she I feel like
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: she went out to consult about like what to do
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: now that she's broken Samarak.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I guess what it is is. I've always
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 3: wondered if there was if sore Lea was actually a
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 3: dark friend, like this is a seri for a long time,
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 3: and this has always been the strongest piece of evidence
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: for me, because she's not a dark friend by all accounts.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: But like, why the hell was kat'swaying not on site
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 3: this one night? The only wise one she respects is
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: sore Leah. Either it's just a coincidence, which don't happen
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: in these books, or someone made sure that she wasn't
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: going to be in the building when rand was getting attacked.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: Coincidence happened all the time. They just say it's because
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: Tavern and move on and keep going and don't call
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: it coincidence.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: I don't like it.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: And also, like the the Black Ajock clearly had no
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: knowledge of what was going on inside the Wise Ones.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: You think there would be some knowledge transfer if there
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: were dark friend Wise ones.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: You what, but why?
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 3: I just it seems like it was very convenient that
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 3: she wasn't in the building when Sammarrog was getting let out.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: I don't know, Maybe she's hanging out with Vannon, who's
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: actually DEMANDRD.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 3: Vandon's not here.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: I got nothing, I got nothing. I don't know what. Yeah,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: I don't think there are any dark friend Wise ones,
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: so I can't help you out there. There's certainly dark one,
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: I yell, But I really do think that it was
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: just cod Swain going to consult with Cyrillia now that
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: she's broken Samarrock and wanted like, hey, what do I
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: do now? What do you think? Like? Also, RAN's going nuts? Help?
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 3: I mean, I agree, that makes sense. I just don't
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 3: believe in coincidence in these books.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: Do you believe in magic?
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: Because I hope you do that you are right, that
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: like it would make sense that kad Swain would be
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 3: going to the wise ones for advice now that she's broken.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 3: Samarog that the timing of that does make sense. I
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 3: just want there to be an a fairy bousness is
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 3: very ne fauriousness.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: The fairy eye, I believe would.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 3: Be anyway, whether or not that was a deliberate thing
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 3: or not. Kat'swin's annoyed about it, and she goes into there,
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 3: does a head count and wonders where else it is.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 3: Where's Elsa? Where's Elsa? We all know where Elsa is.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 3: Elsa is not here?
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: Particulate tiny, She's, well, no, you know, that's a question.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: What happens to the atoms when they get bail fired.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: Is this just like bail fired out of existence or
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: are they because they kind of do that invert and
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: then motes thing. Is it possible that they turn to
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: dust and float away and turn into like gas basically,
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: or do you think it's an actual elimination of the
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: matter from existence.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's a conversion to energy situation. There's
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 3: no matter left. Doesn't really make sense with the physics
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 3: of the thing, because that would like blow the whole
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 3: room up whatever.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: It's magic.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 3: The whole beam of liquid fire thing is like, I
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 3: just I think they're being vaporized down to the down
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 3: to the quarks, okay or beyond. I mean true negation
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 3: would be just like an absolute transfer to energy, right,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 3: and that.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: Would be the year seeing the inverse energy right that
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: cancels out everything in there right right.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 3: The little notes are just kind of basically a visual
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 3: artifact if that happening. I don't think there's actual dust,
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 3: because what would allow certain particles to get let through
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: in other particles to get destroyed, Like it's not real fire,
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 3: it's magic fire.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: They speculate someone must have been a dark friend, and
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: that was of course Elsa. There's some evidence that Shadah
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: Haran was controlling her and working through her, and that
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: evidence is Brandon Sanderson speaking, which I don't like that
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: he talks about these books outside the books, but sometimes
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: he says stuff like that.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 3: So yeah, you don't get to have the word of
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 3: God now that you've put the pen down, sir.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: Just like to bring it up for the people who care.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 3: No, also was a dark friend. She worked for shadow
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: her on because dark friend odes that's all you need.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: The trance is broken. The other two fall unconscious, so
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: I guess they're just tired. But they seem to be fine.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: They seem to exist later on in the series and
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: do stuff with other groups of ice die. Nothing I
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: found that was particularly interesting on either of them.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: They should have been like poison pilled somehow. That would
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 3: have been smart. Manchurian candidate is is to die so Rand.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Rand's voice sounds cool, right, because he's embraced the
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: cold side of the power.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, He's got a strange, dark sort of serenity
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: that's not at all the serenity of someone who's channeling
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 3: the power normally. Yeah. He tells her the danger has
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 3: been dealt with. What the fuck are you doing here?
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 3: It's very The words are intense, but the tone is chill.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: So he calls and reach Over shows him bail fire
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: and basically says, you know, share this anyway. This is
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: how we're gonna kill forsaken. So this is a weapon
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: we all need to have at our disposal, and he
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: bail fires an old cloak or an old but is
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: his coat.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 3: I think the coat that he was in like while
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 3: he was killing men. He's just like that bad memories.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 3: Get rid of that coat. Yeah, And Katswayne tries to
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 3: do her domain nearing you can't do that, and Rand
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 3: just like completely cuts her off, completely overrides her, like,
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 3: this is what we gotta do in order to deal
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 3: with the fort second. Otherwise they keep coming back. I
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 3: have decided it is not forbidden. Get with the program.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: I feel like there's some symbolism in him destroying his coat,
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: right this whole, Like Rand's fancy red coat was this
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: big deal. It was this big thing that he put on,
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: this distinctive thing that made him like the hero that
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: came through and became the emperor, right like, but that
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: red coat was always identified him as like who he was,
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: and so him destroying that with bailfires feels a very
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: symbolic moment of destroying his past, destroying the innocent hymn
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: who came up and and was, you know, thought he
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: could do things the right way.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 3: Well, I think also too, like Moraine put him in
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 3: that coat. Yeah, and here he is cutting kadsawayin off,
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 3: right like, that was that coat was him accepting eyes
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 3: to die management to some extent, and now he is
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 3: completely not accepting eyes to die management whatsoever, while also
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 3: kind of assigning it to himself, right, because he has
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 3: his first loose there in line here of being like
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 3: not first loose theren but his first the first vibe
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 3: of his integrated loose there unself of if you call
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 3: me a child kat Sawain, then what are those of
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 3: you who are thousands of years my junior? Right, Like
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 3: he says stuff like that after he goes zen, Rand like,
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 3: this is part of where he's at now.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's remembering things. He's remembering the last battle and
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: not the last battle. He's remembering the battle of power, right,
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: the war of power.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he's remembering cities burned away by bailfire. He's remembering
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 3: the forsakens, personal traits. He's like, Kaswayne, stop thinking that
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 3: you know the most in the room. I know the
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 3: most in the room.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: And he's right, but he's threatening her with it, right.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: It's a different Rand who goes up and comes down
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: and is like, no, I remember how old I'm wise?
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: Because here he has the memories of violence and trauma,
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: but he's not old and wise, right, he hasn't experienced
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: those things in the way that he does after he's integrated.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 3: Well, he's also like so reactive here, he's very much
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 3: still trying to prove something Oras. Once he comes down
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 3: from the mountain, he's solid in himself. He knows who
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 3: he is and what he's doing, and he doesn't need
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 3: to prove it to anyone because he knows. But right
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 3: now all he knows is the PTSD loops. There's really
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 3: not even much of a p in that.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: He brings up the box that the bracelets were stored in,
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: that also had the children Call stored in it, right,
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: and there's a line, did al Thora now have the
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: access key or had the statuette been taken by samarag
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: And it's really important, right it was not taken by
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: shot At Haran or samarog right right right, Rand has it.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 3: It was left in the box in the room for
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 3: Rand to pick up if and when he survived the encounter,
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 3: and the.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: Fact that could have been taken very easily by shout
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: At Haran tells you that they the dark One wants
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: him to have the children call right now, which is terrifying.
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 3: Because you need that much oomph to destroy the world.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: So then he, you know, he accuses God's waye of
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: you know, fucking it up, which she did, right, Like, I.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 3: Don't know if there was anything that would have kept
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 3: shouter her On.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: Out true, right, Yeah, it's like she doesn't have the skill.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know why she thought she could keep him out.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 3: No one anticipated that shadow her On existed. Nobody knew
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 3: that the hand of the Dark was a factor to
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 3: plant for So I don't really blame her, because Shida
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 3: hern can just wave his hand and make all leaves
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 3: go poof if he wants.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: So, is that what you think happened? Is that how
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: you think he got into it through the words? Yeah?
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 3: I think just he can just negation beam those things
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 3: out of there. And like nobody knows that Shio her
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 3: On exists except for like half the Forsake, and the
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 3: other half don't even know. I think so, like.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: Because he really does break the rules of reality, right,
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: Like he can't you shouldn't be able to poof wards.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: But like that's what's happening in the White Tower, that
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: the words aren't working anymore.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 3: That's what the dark One can do. That's what is it.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 3: A Grandall says. The only the closest thing she holds
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 3: to a sacred truth is that anything the Creator can
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 3: make the Dark one can unmake that's what the dark
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 3: One does. So like it's not Kat Swayin's fault that
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 3: she doesn't have like protection against that Rand is being unreasonable,
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 3: But nobody knows that shadow her on as a factor.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 3: Right Even in this, everyone assumes that it was all
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 3: Samarog that made this happen, and maybe there was a
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 3: dark friend that helped, But no one's assuming that the
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 3: Dark One has a whole other tier of monster to deploy.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: And then there's the whole you don't but you don't
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: kill women. Uh, actually I just vaporized a couple of them,
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: so look out, I.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 3: Have been forced to revise that particular inclination. I love
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 3: it when people use big words to cover up how
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 3: traumatized they are.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: And then this is great. I think this is one
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: of the fan favorite moments when Rand just schools Codswain
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: and puts it in her place, using essentially his powers. Right, Like,
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of frustration with Cod swayn I feel
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: like out there and to him, just be like, listen,
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: cod Swain, do you believe I could kill you right here,
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: right now without using a sword of the power. Do
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: you believe that if I simply willed it, the pattern
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: would bend around me and stop your heart by coincidence.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: And like, I think it's a famous moment, both because
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: frustration with godswayn but also because it's such a debatable point. Right,
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: do you think he has that kind of control over
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: the pattern? Do you think he has that kind of power?
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 3: And I mean the trippy thing about it is that
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 3: like by framing it that way, you loop in the
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 3: placebo effect, right, Like, if you believe that, it becomes
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 3: like fifty percent more true just because of you, You
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 3: yourself have now opened yourself up to that being true.
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 3: It's a it's a great the top spinning at the
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 3: end of inception kind of like uh uh.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: And I think there is there's some truth to the
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: fact that Rand is the balance for the Dark One.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: When he is in tune, When he is in balance
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: right and the Dark ones putting his foot on the scale,
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: Rand gains a lot of powers.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 3: When the Dark One affects the world, Rand necessarily gets
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 3: powered up as well.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: And when Rand is out of balance, he I think
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: causes bad things to happen. He supports he doesn't balance
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: out in the Dark One. And so there's this moment
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: where you know, they're like, oh, all those bad things
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: are happening, those weird, out landish things are happening around Rand,
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: but what about the good ones? And they go, no,
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: there are no more good ones, right, there are no
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: more good random things happening around Rand until he goes
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: up to the veins of Gold and rebalances himself because he's
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: fully being corrupted by the Dark One at this.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 3: Point, right, And then after that he's doing nothing but
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 3: good stuff wherever he goes, because that's how balance gets
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 3: brought to everything, right, right.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: Because he's balancing it on the Dark One, who's putting
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: his foot on the scale right right, right, Rand has
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: no powers if the Dark One isn't free in that situation, right,
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: because he's balancing out that at least this the severe
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: in part of him. Right. That's why for most of
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: the series, everything that all the extreme chances to him
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: happen in balance. When good things happen, bad things also happen.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: But now that the Dark One's free, it's not in
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: balance anymore. And Rand's not in balance.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 3: Right, And I do think that there is something to
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 3: him being able to direct his will to this point,
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 3: because it does help curb get the words a naturans
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 3: barrow out after nineve you know, lobotomizes him post grand all. Like,
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 3: clearly Rand is able to exercise some kind of force
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 3: because he's leaning in, right. I mean, we've known this
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 3: about Tavere and Fate for a long time. If you
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 3: fight it, you have no control. If you lean in,
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 3: you get the tiniest little bit of control.
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: That's why Leans into his luck and he gets some
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: control over that. That's when Rand really wants people to
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: do the things that he needs them to do. He
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: gets them to say and do things that they wouldn't
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: normally do. It's why Paren is able to be a
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: leader even though he's a terrible leader, and get a
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: bunch of people behind him.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Paren doesn't really lean in, but once he does, man,
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 3: things go really well for him, exactly exactly well. The
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 3: second he decides to lean in, Bam bam bam. Everything works.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: Once he decides he's an actual anime character, Like he
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: really gets those teleportation and powers quick.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah and so yeah it short of of kat Swan's
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 3: heart stopping, Rand simply exiles her from his site. He
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 3: very specifically says, never let me see your face. Again,
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 3: she eyes to die, lawyers it and he allows it
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 3: later on. But the point is he needs some space.
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 3: He needs space, he's feeling a little confined.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: But this idea that he doesn't have emotions is ridiculous.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: He is completely trapped by his emotions in the laps
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: and completely affected by them. Yeah, like he's not done
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: with his emotions at.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 3: All, in every sense of the word. He has not
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 3: done his shadow work. He has not beaten the shadow
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 3: quite literally, nor has he dealt with any of his
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 3: internal trauma and drama.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: So yeah, we see the darkness emanating from him out
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: of the corner of her eye, which I think is
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: the connection to the dark one. The channeling of the
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 2: true power has affected.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 3: Him, and Nieve sees it too later, only out of
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 3: the corner of her eye. I think it's definitely like
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 3: a passive sensing ability that channelers have.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: Same thing, Yeah, same thing hurt here with God swayn
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: where she's only seeing it out of the corner of
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: her eye. Could also be an effect of one of
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 2: the paraous net on Greel, because both of them have it.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: If ninive and God swayin, yeah, we'll see if anybody
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: else sees it.
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I don't know, or maybe it's only like
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 3: really powerful channelers have that level of like detect threshold. Yeah,
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 3: that's uh basically all I got.
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: Mm hm. Prepare yourself in your army. As author said
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: to those who remained, voice echoing in the room behind,
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: I intend to be gone by week's end. God. Swayne
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: raised a hand to her head and leaned against the
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: hallway outside, the hallway wall outside, heart thumping, hand sweating.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: Before she had been working against a stubborn but good
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: hearted boy. Someone had taken that child and replaced him
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: with a man, a man more dangerous than any she
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: had ever met. Day by day, he was slipping away
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: from them, and at the moment she hadn't a blasted
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: clue what to do about it.
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 3: Go get his dad. His dad will talk some sense
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 3: into him. Actually he won We'll just trigger a breakdown.
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, right, but in this case, he respects his father.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you need to get an adult to your
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 3: adult that he actually respects. And I would argue that
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 3: Tam is in fact an adult year adult. He puts
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 3: Kadswayn in her place in a way that only sore
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 3: Leah could have done before and.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a chapter, and that was a super short chapter.
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 3: So short. Yeah, I'm glad we bundled those together. It
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 3: really is just the epilogue to the first chapter.
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmmm hmm. But yeah, I think that's all I
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: had to say about that one. That was fun. That's
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: such a good I like that chapter a lot.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I do like that event. It has a
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 3: lot of like the way it concludes with the exile
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 3: reminds me a lot of do my as wells with
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 3: like Neil or you shall be knelt, Like you just
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 3: feel this awful and terrible threshold getting crossed. Yeah, something
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 3: you can do about it, Like, oh no, we're entering
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 3: a new paradigm of bad things.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: Because like he's he's using the true power, right, and
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: that's just so ominous and so bad.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, and going against a vision of men's right
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 3: to exile. CAD's swaying is to say men's vision doesn't
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 3: hold weight, which makes sense because he just was like,
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 3: oh man, I'm gonna be friendly. Oh no, now I
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 3: have to be terrible, Like he's now rejecting men's vision
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 3: advice as well as her.
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: Love, right, right, that's a good point, yeah, because that
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: whole reason he kept Catt swaying around is because he
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: believed in men's vision. And now he's like, no, whatever,
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: if it happens, it happens, but I'm not worrying about it.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a paradigm shift. Rand is yeah, beyond Darth
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 3: at this point, or Darth is only just now kicking
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 3: in and we've been mislabeling it before. I don't know.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 3: Either way, the nomenclature has to upgrade.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Ebony, ebony, RAND, I don't know. I think something
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 2: was darker.
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, black hole, Rand Horizon.
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: If you've read the Dark Jewels trilogy, ebony is blacker
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: than black in that series. So that's sort of where
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: my mind went. But that is a niche fantasy series
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: for those of you who read it was.
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 3: I was just watching some cool YouTube videos about black
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 3: holes last night, so that's definitely where my mind is at. Is, well,
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 3: black holes are black, you know, it's like, oh, they're
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 3: not really black, they're it's blacker than black. Black is
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 3: a color. This is absence. That's what a black hole is.
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 3: But you know, it was actually science stuff about the
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 3: accretion ring and the emissions that it was putting.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: Off, which is actually one of the brightest things in
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 2: the universe, which is really funny that you have a
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: black hole right next to often one of the brightest
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 2: things in the universe, and they're usually very very close together.
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, it was actually really cool. It was
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 3: a video about our Milky Way or our black hole.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 3: The center of the Milky Way has like spent some
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 3: really epic imaging from JWST, specifically actually looking directly at
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 3: our Sagittarius a star and seeing the flares coming off
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 3: of it, and it's just it's so wild that we
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 3: can do that. It's really really cool, really neat science.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 3: Can you hear that fucking phone call coming in?
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: Uh?
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 2: Just barely? Oh all right, I think that's all I got.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 3: We'll be back next week for another double or triple header,
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 3: continuing to do support group on Thursdays. The TV show
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 3: does premiere this month on March thirteenth. That's very exciting.
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: I hope'es for season three.
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 3: I guess yeah, I'm excited. I'm very excited. I'm very
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 3: much enjoying all the people who are engaging with the
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 3: pre release hype. I am not personally engaging with the
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 3: pre release hype. Directly, but I'm very much enjoying the
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 3: secondary hype that's rolling off of all the people who
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 3: are that's great. I'm basking in that.
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 2: And guess what we do in two weeks what Hinderstap.
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's exciting. That's very exciting.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: Zo.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, can't wait to do that. Can't wait to see
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: you guys next week and the week after.
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, everyone keep coming back for more exciting gathering Storm chapters.
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 3: We are definitely getting closer and closer to the sander Lanch.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 3: Now, it's a good time to tune in.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: Yep. I would say that that certainly starts as calls
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 2: the beginning of the sander Lanch, right, and we got
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: a little bit of a hole and then we're just
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: Hinderstap and from then on out just bang bang bang
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: bang bang, right right up until Vane's Gold.
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 3: Very exciting, very exciting. Well, thank you everyone for showing
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 3: up today. Really appreciate it, and thank you everyone out
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 3: there for listening and donating and sharing and engaging in
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 3: all the ways that you do. It's fantastic.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 5: And uh, yeah, see you next week, see you next week.
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 2: Either way, you know, the recording will sound great. It's
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: just why they're not the few live people get to
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: hear robotica a radio and hopefully.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 3: It'll sound better than last time I was here, because
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 3: I'm actually using a USB mic instead of my Bluetooth headphones.
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: So yeah, Bluetooth is always a little sketchy to record over.
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I just just forgot to bring the USB mic
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 3: last time because I was working. Yeah, just whatever. Technology
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 3: on the go is a pain.
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, technology at home is a pain. Today. I
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 2: had about a forty minute scare. I sat down early
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: for once, got my notes ready, and I was like,
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: why can't I hear anything through the microphone. I can
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: hear myself through the microphone, and it's powered, but the
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 2: computer's not communicating with it, diagnosing, reinstalling software, trying drivers.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: It just says it's not connected, but it's getting power.
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 2: Can't tell, it can't tell. Finally, replace the cord. Everything
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: starts working and I start tracing the old chord and
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: what do I find about? You know, three cord. It's
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 2: a long cord and it's like in channels and stuff
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 2: like that. There's some cat tooth marks in one of
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 2: the ye not puppy tooth. Good guys, little gin but
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 2: actual this is the chef is a cord chewer. He
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: likes to when he gets frustrated that no one's paying
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: attention to him. He knows we don't like it when
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: we choose his tooth chords, and he punishes us by
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 2: finding a chord and chewing it. So every once in
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 2: a while, it's not very often, but once every couple
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: of weeks, I go to use a chord and charge
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: something and it doesn't work, and I followed along and go, yep,
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: there's the they're the teeth marks.
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 3: I'm offended, Chef, because I put your cute little cat
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 3: snores at the beginning of the last recording for everyone
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 3: to hear before anything else happened. There was cute little
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 3: cat snores, and how have you repaid us? Ungrateful?
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 2: He probably woke up and had a snack, That's what
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: I'm saying. But yeah, so that cord has been replaced
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 2: and everything should be working good. But yeah, other than that,
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: things are going good. Puppy update. He is getting better
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: by the day, Still lots of energy, still wants to
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 2: play all the time. But no more real accidents inside, well,
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: not many more accidents inside. No more nipping and biting,
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 2: much more calm rade other people, very good on walks.
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: We've taken him to the dog park. He's been great
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: off leash. He's played great with other dogs, and he's
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 2: done the thing that I really appreciate where he's matched
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: the other dog energy. If the other dog is like,
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: you know, mouth open jumping playing, he does that. If
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 2: the other dog is more of a chase dog, he
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 2: does that. If they're more of a calm dog, he
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 2: does that. He'll like turn his butt towards them. The
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: one thing he will do is like knock over the
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 2: calm dogs with his butt. To try and get him
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: to play with them a little bit, he kind of
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: gives them the button, then runs away a little bit,
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, come on, man, let's settle down a
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 2: little bit. But so far, no humping, no aggressive behavior,
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 2: no frightened behavior. Yeah. No, I've been really really happy
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: with how he's doing so far. Terrible recall, absolutely terrible recall.
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 2: So that is something that we need to train. He
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: doesn't run away from me, he just doesn't really come
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: to me unless he wants to. Fortunately, there is a
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 2: fully fenced dog off leash dog park minutes away from
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: where I'm currently living. So we're getting all of that
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 2: training done and we're working on the recall. It is
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 2: one of the I won't say it's the harder, but
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: it's getting the circumstances right to train. It is kind
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 2: of hard. I need to get a we have a
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 2: long leash, and I need a space with not a
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 2: lot of other dogs to start training the recall. So
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 2: we're working on it. There's lots of training going on,
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: and we can't train everything all in the same first.
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: You know, we were at six weeks now.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 3: So right, yeah, now there's a progression. You're gonna have
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 3: to work iteratively through.
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 2: The to do list exactly exactly exactly. And because we
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 2: didn't get him as a young puppy, we got him
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 2: in eight months, there's some bad habits that we had
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 2: to unteach him with. You know. Unfortunately, we did have
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 2: to resort to a spray bottle for a couple of
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: behaviors because he was like because I wouldn't normally do
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: that with a young puppy, but he's old enough now
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: that he's learned the behavior and there has to be
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: some sort of like way to besides just yelling no
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: at him, because then he's just like starts sparking because
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: he thinks we're all barking together.
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I actual negative feedback that he sees as negative.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 2: Which is unfortunate because I try not to use negative feedback.
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: But there's you know a little bit of a spray
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: bottle when he's you know, harassing the cat or chewing
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 2: on furniture.
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 3: You know, a spray bottle is it's a harmless enough
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 3: deterrent for like, no, these were actual problem behaviors, right,
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 3: Like you know, hitting is never good, yelling is middling effective,
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 3: but a spray bottle very effective, and it does no
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 3: harm at all.
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: It's just water.
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: Nope, And now I just get up and go pick
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: up the spray bottle and he stops slippers. I haven't
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: had to spraym since like day two.
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 3: I had cats who were sprayed a lot, and you
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 3: could just make finger guns and a spray annoys at
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 3: them and they would move like they knew. They didn't
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 3: want to wait around for the actual to test if
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 3: there was water or not.
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 2: But other than that, other than that, mostly positive reinforcement.
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 2: And he's been doing great, But boy, were his personality's
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 2: coming out and he has he's got one for sure. Well,
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 2: well I'll update you on that more as it happens.
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 2: That's awesome, But you know, six weeks is still pretty early,
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: pretty quick. He's mostly in his fear response and then
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: sort of just settling in and is this is this
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: normal response? I think one of our biggest, one of
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: the biggest helps has been doing a walk that's just
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: the same every day m hm.
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 3: Routine.
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 2: Routine. Yeah, routine is the biggest help for sure. Uh yeah,
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I can talk about the dogs all day,
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 2: like he hot the dogs.
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 3: I do not yet have a dog, though. Brandon has
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 3: officially sent me a picture from a local business that
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 3: like has a foster in the lobby of the business
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 3: for the day to like, you know, try to get
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 3: people to adopt sort of things. And he's like, hey,
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 3: look at this one. This one's really cute. I'm not
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 3: saying we should get but he looks really cute, and
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 3: I'm like, so it begins. Yeah. The most the most
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 3: responsibility I have for anything right now is we put
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 3: garlic in the ground over the weekend and some kale.
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 3: It's time to start trying to garden for the year.
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 2: It's time to kill some plants before you figure out
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 2: when it's actually time to play well.
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 3: Garlic and kale are both plants that ostensibly you can
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 3: basically grow year round where we are, so you know,
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 3: we're trying to get a go at that get started
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 3: on it because we eat a lot of garlic, like
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 3: so much garlic, and it's supposed to be really easy
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 3: to grow. And then we had store garlic that was
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 3: all sprouting, so it's like, all right, fine, go in
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 3: the ground to do something useful with yourselves. And yeah,
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 3: we're trying really hard to get some get some more
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 3: serious gardening happening this year, because yeah, gardening seems like
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 3: a practical thing to really cracking up at this point
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 3: in the timeline.
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 2: I put some kale in the ground a couple and
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: when I first moved to the Portland and was quickly
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 2: overwhelmed by the amount of greens I had to eat,
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: it was so much all the time, constantly. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 2: they're just like whoa, let's grow.
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 3: Thank you for listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 3: Please rate and review us on your podcast app and
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 3: consider supporting us on Patreon for ad free episodes. Watts
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 3: Spoilers is a production of Fox and Raven Media. For
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 3: more podcasts from Fox and Draven Media, visit our website
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 3: at Foxendravenmedia dot com