Latest / Beheaded / "The Most Wretched of All" | Robert Devereux, 2nd Earl of Essex

Transcript

"The Most Wretched of All" | Robert Devereux, 2nd Earl of Essex · Beheaded

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to Beheaded.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to season three, episode nine.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Megan Moore.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm Elizabeth Black.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Elizabeth is freestyling it.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: I knew.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: No, let me explain.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: I knew you were going there.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: You explain, I'll explain.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: You have no notebook.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's not true.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: A, I have a laptop in front of me that is full of notes.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Many more notes than I could have taken by hand.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: And she's just covering up the fact that I already took notes on this episode.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: We recorded the episode, and someone in this room, not named Elizabeth, deleted the episode.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: So you told me we were gonna be cool and we weren't gonna bring this up.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: I did, but you went there right away, so now I'm going there right away.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: This is the second go at this episode.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: We already finished this episode.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be better the second time.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: And why do we have to do it again, Megan?
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I deleted the file.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Mmm, cool.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: But to be fair, this is season three, episode nine, and she's never done that once before.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: That was the first time, and it was because I think you got a new computer at work, right?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: I did, and we did updates and something, and I like wiped it and blah blah blah.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: And the cloud and the metaverse and the virtual reality, and you know, Elon Musk, and yeah, I get it.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it's gone.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, it's good because I've had a really crazy busy work week this week, and so I was like, you know what?
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's good to do a one I've done already because I'm prepped, even though Megan doesn't think I'm prepped.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Second go-around.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: I am not I'm not just free walling it here.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: I literally have notes in my computer right next to me.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be good.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: I just this is our first time in three seasons.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: You haven't had the handy dandy notebook.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I think Aunt Marie Antoinette I also did not have a notebook.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Neither did you.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think we just went.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Our first one that we did on a guitar hero microphone.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: On a glass table.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: We knew No, we put a blanket down.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: We knew we knew that much, but it was a very echoey room, and the green chilies were going.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Our first episode, glass table, hardwood floor, so guitar hero microphone, so just echoey.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then, yeah, you decided I'm gonna make my famous hacked green chili recipe, and we're both coughing from how spicy the room was.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: No, they're gonna be that spicy that evening.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: That was brutal.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was a wild episode.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Terrible first episode.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: But we we were proud of it.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, hey, that wasn't so bad.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: We like sent it to people we knew, you know, because we weren't like a thing yet, and we're like, Do we like this?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Is this a good first episode?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's like, Oh, yeah, this is great.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: They're making fun of us, like these loser, like just tell them nice things, just say the quality's really good.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, we've come a far way.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, all that said, the fact that after three seasons, this is the first time we've had to redo an episode because of technological failures, as in me, as in Glitch in the Matrix Megan.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Not so bad.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: No, not so bad at all.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, when she told me, I think she was like really nervous to tell me.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, she called me.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't even a text, it wasn't like a text, it was like a hey.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I started off like I have bad news.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, I thought something really serious like death had happened.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, really?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: I did because I was that remorseful.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, I was just nervous.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh man, this is gonna be heavy.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, I don't know what happened to the file, and as soon as she said file, I was like, oh, I was like, so the episode's gone.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, Yeah, and I don't know, and I'm sure we can get it back, and I don't know.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: I tried, I talked to IT, and I was like, it's fine.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: It was like we can do it again, like we have the notes, you know, even though they're not with me.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: And here we are.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: We have the notes, we're great, we're fine.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I was a little worried.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: And he's a relative of mine, so I think this whole thing is cursed.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: It kind of is.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: What happened again?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: We tried to record and it wasn't recording it.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: What?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, where sound check just wasn't recording.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you don't have your lucky notebook.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Don't even say that.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Just don't say that positive thoughts.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um before we get into We went to the Renaissance Festival.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: We did.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: We saw the most beautiful Anne Boleyn dress at uh Pendragon, which we've talked about.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's where you got your dress, Megan.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Her costume maker Pendragon.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: Shout out to Laura, who every single time I visit, she helps me re-tie my corset because I don't know, I'm really challenged when it comes to tying up my corset.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: She doesn't like the perfect.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's hard to do it on yourself.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: You kind of have to like bend over, like get the girls up.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: As we say, get the girls up.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: She always says, get the girls high.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she's so cute.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: So Laura fitted me for my dress about 10 years ago.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's I think it's like nine years at this point.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think I got it in two.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's great.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's getting a little tight.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you just had the short string versus the long string.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: After nine years, I mean it's not terrible.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: But she still is there every season.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: And last year we didn't get to go because of the pandemic, it was all shut down.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: So it was really fun, like going back and seeing old friends and we call them friends.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: We do, like at this point, we've now met the same vendors several times.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we hate you though, if you're the one who ratted us out and got us arrested last time.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: But if you didn't talk about it, cool.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: For those who didn't listen to that episode two years ago, right before the pandemic really went down, we went to the Renfair and may have been arrested for solicitation for trying to endorse the beheaded podcast.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Solicitation sounds like prostitution.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: We were just simply talking to some folks and giving out our business cards.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't know that wasn't allowed because we thought we were all, oh, we're all where's the sign?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Where's the sign that says they don't inform you of that?
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: But we had security escort us out.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: Take us out.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: So refer to that.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I don't know.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: I guess no season one?
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Was that season one?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, that was season two.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: But last year we didn't go.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: We had business cards.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was season one.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: We were amateurs, yeah.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: Last cables and trying to figure it out.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're one of those Rennies that ratted us out, hey, maybe rethink what you did, but we're still here.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: These girls know about torture methods and execution, so that sounds like a threat.
• 6:33
  unknown: I like that.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but shout out to Laura, shout out to Pendragons and tell them about the dress.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so this dress, and when I first thought of like an ambolin dress, I was like, oh, it's probably a beautiful green.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's like, okay, and I'm gonna sound stupid because now my brain's playing tricks on me.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Was it blue or purple?
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: It was purple.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was like a dark plum.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like a plum, yeah.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's beautiful.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a dark plum, and it was like the big, um, what do you call the draped sleeves?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: How you say uh draped sleeve?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're called the like they're called flared, right?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Or something.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like the big draped sleeve, um, and then it's the French hood, and it's the very specific neckline that she has in her like iconic photo.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: Square, very French style.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: I said photo, portrait, you know what I mean.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: I guess so.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was so nice.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: And literally, Megan stopped and was like, oh, she's like, I have to get this.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, what if we even like just share it?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what if like we go in on it halfsies and like we're roughly the same size?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we could just make it work for both of us.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: What if we start a GoFundMe and get two of them?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: We could do that.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe the executionados want to see us in matching Anvelyn dresses.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: I can't even.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we even said we're like, okay, if we actually for real went halfsies and like bought this dress, we would just be so jealous of the other one whenever she wore it.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like be like that wearing this beautiful dress.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Getting all the compliments.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know if we can handle that.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: It might break us apart.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's$600.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, that's a lot of money.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: So that is a lot.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: We can start a fundraiser.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think we need it.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I can, in my mind, do a fundraiser with the actual fundraisers for refugees right now.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh shoot, yeah.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, not to like cloud.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: I do want to talk about worldly stuff sometimes.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know, we're not as you know, we're not current events specialists, we don't know a lot about all these things, but we we're people who live in the world with feelings.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: We do have a lot of European listeners, and we just want to let all of our friends know that we are supportive for anyone who has friends, family, loved ones, any connection whatsoever to the Ukraine.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Our hearts are out for you, we support you, and it's just really tragic.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's so sad.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't believe that we would have seen this in our lifetime.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, here we are.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Here we are.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so hopefully everyone you personally know is okay, and you know, things like this are never obviously easy, and you have a lot of annoying people out there on social media who are excited to live through something historic and be on their soapbox and talk about whatever things, but it's like, no, these are real people in real lives that are being affected.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: So this is stuff none of us would ever want to go through or see family go through.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: So we're our hearts are with you.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: On that note, um, we did go to the dungeon museum.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Is that a terrible transition?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh um, yeah, the torture museum's great.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: I posted some pictures of it.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Did you already?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: I've been off of social media because I've been like strapped to my job right now.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: But I will go on and I will like all of them and I'm excited to see them.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: You can't like stories, but things are you can now.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think they changed that.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: You can like them, but they're gone, so I can't see them.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: But if you put what if you put them on a highlight?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: What if you do like a Renfare highlight?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Come on.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: You've had enough Renfare content to do a cute little highlight thing.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, do it or not, I want to s I would like to see them.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I know.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: I have a couple pictures too.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: I I need to post.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: I posted a or not posted, I had, they took some cool ones of the museum.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: And not like not just like the actual things happening, but just like the corridors and the very spooky looking.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: You never take pictures of like really big attractions, just of like the aesthetics of I really do like this corner.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: I have a I have a thing where I get fascinated with like little nooks and crannies, and I'm like, everyone's gonna want to see this.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: What the hell is this album of?
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry, but I just I have a thing.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: I like it.
• 10:39
  unknown: That's good.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, so we've had lots of good things.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: We've had the Renfair.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: We've had what else?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: You ran a marathon.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, that was just um again, took free.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Took pictures and probably should post them too.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because we went to school cool places like speakeasies and stuff in Atlanta.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um anyway, but the Atlanta marathon was really hard, very hilly.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and like at this point, I've run 13 marathons, and so I feel like, oh, I can handle whatever.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: And there was literally a lady running in front of me, and I wasn't listening to music because my music shut off.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great race, all in the rain, cool.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but this lady was like, Oh, she was telling the guy next to her, she's like, you know, I've run 13 full marathons, and I was like, Oh, that's weird, like so have I.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, and I would never run this full.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, I'm running the half today.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I'm like, I wish I wouldn't have heard that, and that was at mile like two.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, it was it was hilly, it was hard.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, not my best time, but not my worst time.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you have number 14 in like what a couple weeks.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: I have number 15 in two weeks.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Wait.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: That was 14.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: That was 14.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so she had ran 13, I had ran 13.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: That was our 14th.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Now you're running 13.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm running 15.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: You really need to slow down.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like tired though.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, not even no one's forcing you to do this.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: I am forcing me.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: I need to get these done.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: I need to do all 50 states in the next like 10 years, and I'm just gonna power through them.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: You are one of the most self-disciplined people that I know.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: I cannot even wake up with my alarm, let alone.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's hard.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's a whole nother 13 marathons.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's a whole nother ordeal.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't claim to be an early riser.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Ugh, it's disciplined nevertheless.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: So stay tuned with my next one.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: I do want to post actually some pictures of some cool places I went in Atlanta.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, as Megan said, they're just gonna be aesthetic photos, but they're cool.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Look at this fork I found.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm gonna be like, look, look at this ceiling.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be like, look at the phone booth that leads to the speakeasy that you should know about.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and maybe if you DM me, I'll give you the phone number how to get into the phone booth into the speakeasy.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: So isn't that lame?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: As people are like, okay, it's fine.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna sip my wine and um you lead us off with who we're doing today.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to interject with how I'm related to this person.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: I know you do.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's been a while, but we have a tutor execution for you.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um tutors are always our favorites.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: And we've been trying to sprinkle them throughout, and we've had a lot of unique ones this season.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: We've taken a few different angles on things, but we're getting back to what we're good at, if we can call it that.
• 13:17
  unknown: I don't know.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: So good, we're doing it twice.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: We like variety, and yes, this one is time two.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: I wish we had the first one just to compare and contrast.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think this one will be better.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: The good thing is we did it a few weeks ago, so I quite frankly don't remember.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: So it does feel new.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that funny?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes when I do listen to an old episode, I'm like, I don't remember any of that information.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's not me.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's not me.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: I would never say that.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: I blacked out.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: We are going to talk about Robert Devereux, the second Earl of Essex.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: He was in Queen Elizabeth I's court.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: He was a lover, he was a courtly man, and he was executed by Queen Elizabeth I.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: She never executes anybody.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: What?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: She does.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: I know that's what I'm saying.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: She's got Henry VIII blood.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: She executes papal.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, and just a quick side note before Megan starts on his early life.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he is related to moi.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um what?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: I know, because he is actually the great-grandson of Mary Boleyn.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: And as we've talked about, uh Mary Boleyn is my 16th grandmother on my father's side.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: So just like order of operations, like order of family tree.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: It goes Mary Boleyn, and then her daughter, Catherine Carey, and then Catherine's daughter, Latisse Knollys, who, fun fact, married Robert Dudley.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll kind of talk about the parallels uh as we get into the story.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then again, what Robert Dudley was not the father of Robert Devereux.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: His father was Walter Devereux, correct?
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: That was his name.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: He's the stepson of Robert Dudley.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so Robert Devereux is the stepson of Robert Dudley.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so he is the uh son of Latisse Nolys and Walter Devereaux, which actually makes him the first cousin twice removed of Queen Elizabeth I, even though he's 34 years younger, and we'll get into all the dynamics of their juicy relationship.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Such a good relationship.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, so go ahead and kick it off with his early life and upbringing.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Alright, so Robert Devereux was born November 10th, 1565, in Herefordshire, but he was brought up in Stratfordshire and Wales.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: His father, as you mentioned, um, Walter Devereux, he died pretty early on in his life in 1576.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: He was only like, what, 11 years old?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's 11.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: Shortly after, his mother married Robert Dudley.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Robert Dudley was Queen Elizabeth I's lover.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: It was kind of like the marriage that never happened.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Robert Dudley was obviously married in his own way and all of that, but Elizabeth basically could never marry her lover because she was the queen and she couldn't take on his a lower status like that.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly a queen marrying an earl is like unheard of.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but Robert Dudley was um childhood friends with Elizabeth too.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: They also were in the Tower of London at the same time, arrested together at the same time, which kind of like helped them fall in love.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: So they had a very long history with each other, and there's a lot that you can get into about Robert Dudley.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's like it wouldn't be an execution story, but it that is like a story story on its own.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but Robert Devereux, our guy of the evening, he's the stepson, which is just so interesting to me.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: I know so funny.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: 1590, Robert Devereux marries Francis Walsingham, who's the daughter of Sir Francis Walsingham.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like Francis, like the female version, then Francis the E and the I are the different versions.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: E and the eye, exactly.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um and he comes to court.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: He loves court life.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: He loves dressing up and being flashy, he loves just kind of showing off and you know, the big balls, I guess.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: They weren't really balls.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: What were they?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: They did have big balls.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like I want to say the dances.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: What was the word I'm trying to say?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I can't approach it.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: I know there's a specific word that they always use, and I can't think of it.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: The um pageants?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: They're not pageants.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, like the get-togethers, go-downs, the um the sock-offs.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: He loves the court.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: He catches the eye of Elizabeth I, and he has a lot of enemies as well because he's kind of an asshole.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: He's young, he's only 23 years old, and Elizabeth I at this time is 55 years old, so they are 34 years apart.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: And she really just kind of indulges in him.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think she thinks it's amusing, and you know, she kind of laughs at him, but he's also very good looking and very handsome and quite young and feisty, and so there's a lot of people who don't like him, and then a lot of the ladies who do like him, including Elizabeth.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, and they say too, because of his relationship with Robert Dudley, that sometimes Elizabeth looks at him and thinks, like, oh, like I see the same spirit as Robert Dudley.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he is kind of just a little bit, I guess, you know, reckless and fun, and you can see a lot of the same qualities that really drew her to Dudley now and his stepson.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: And also her family member, which is creepy.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but overall, his behavior lacked a lot of respect in the court.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Very like cavalier.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, arrogant.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a snot.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, 1593, he becomes a member of the Privy Count Council.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he was also replaced as master of the horse, which is very amusing because that was the same title as Robert Dudley.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: So he's pretty much replacing his his stepfather, and it's almost like, as Elizabeth just said, our Elizabeth, that Elizabeth I, the queen, um, yeah, she was kind of like in her own mind trying to make it her new Robert Dudley, but living in her life 30 years ago.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like a mentally like if she were to have a therapist, I'm sure that therapist would have been like, okay, like I see what you're doing, ma'am.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Lizzie.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: Best.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Let's honey.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Why you got this young man.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, and obviously she's making great attempts to make herself feel younger, right?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you know anything about Elizabeth I, you know she wears the heavy white makeup and the big red wigs, and like a lot of her life, you know, being the Virgin Queen is kind of trying to still have this youthful image.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I'm sure in a way he makes her feel young.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she gets to stay up late and drink with him and gamble with him.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, uh he is a favorite.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: So um I think before I honestly I did this podcast, like when I heard favorite, I just assumed that meant in a very like professional courtly way.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't really realize that you had very intimate moments with these people, and you would again like keep them in your bedchambers, like, and you'd like you know, divulge crazy secrets.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: And again, like I mean, like we're all adults here, you probably slept together.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that's far fetched.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: The Virgin Queen.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: The Virgin Queen may or may have not had slept with Robert Dudley, may or may not have slept with Robert Devereux.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think we can all say that was a thing.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's fair.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think my favorite representation of Robert Devereux, if you love this episode and you really just want to see who he was like more as a person, is the HBO series, mini-series called Elizabeth with Helen Miren.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: I've brought it up before.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of parts in that whole show.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's a two-part series.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Each episode is like almost two hours long, so it's basically like a long version of Titanic, yeah, with an intermission in the middle.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but almost the whole second part is about her relationship with Robert Devereaux.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: I want to say like the part one is her and Dudley and Mary Queen of Scots, and part two is a basically this whole story.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it kind of like the way that they portray him, you you get it.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, yeah, I mean, he's a flirt, he's cute.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: He's uh Eddie Redmain's also in it.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: He's so cute with his stringy hair and it's like I mean this came out in I think like 2004.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: This was actually one of the shows, too, that kind of kicked off my whole interest in all of this.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like one of them.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: I was, I think 14, 15 when it came out.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: And um you saw Eddie Redmain.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: That was my first over and then my life ended.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Anyways, um, I highly recommend it.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's if you have HBO Max is still on there, I'm sure it's on like Amazon Prime, you can buy it or whatever.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: Quick side note Fantastic Beast must have blown your mind.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like when you saw your two great loves converge, it's like you see the wizarding world and then like not to get sidetracked.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, imagine maybe.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: In love with Eddie Redmain, Johnny Deff, Hufflepuffs, Harry Potter, um Yeah, Jude Law.
• 22:10
  unknown: Oh yeah.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: And Jude Law.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: They just threw all of it into all of it.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost it's overwhelming.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Anyways.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think my brain can quite grasp it even yet.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: I can't.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: I cannot.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: And there's another one coming out soon.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, wait, when does it come out?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: May.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: I digress.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Robert Devereux.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: What were we talking about?
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he's also dashing.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of dashing men.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: Good transition.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so throughout all of this, uh, he's not just a guy in court, he's actually a military man.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but he has a pretty spotty military career.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, he has some some uh successes, but most of the time he's really just defying the queen's orders, which goes to show again that he kind of is uh a little ungrateful for his relationship with the queen.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: He's taking it a little too lightly and like, oh, me and the queen are pals, like she'll understand if I do what I have to do.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: So we just have a few examples here um of of kind of how far he took it in some of these things.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: But so in 159 or 89, um he sailed to Spain uh with the intent of defeating the Spanish Armada.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um and the Queen had told him at no point to partake in this, but he just thought, I'm gonna go and try and have some success defeating the Spanish Armada.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't quite get anywhere there, and it wasn't until uh about seven years later, 1597, 1596, that he finally distinguished himself by capturing the city of Cadiz, which is a city in Spain.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: So he's like, again, wasn't really even supposed to be there.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Finally, he has some success to people like, okay, like I guess he's a good military leader, a good general, like maybe we should listen to him.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: But only a year later he defies her orders again by pursuing a Spanish treasure ship.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: So he's supposed to be defeating the Spanish Armada when she kind of buys into this whole thing, and he goes after the Spanish fleet.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: But instead of defeating the Armada, he goes and he just pursues some pirate ships, some like big treasure ships, um, and and tries to attack those.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: So she's already like, okay, he's a child.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: He's a child, he's a little boy who's excited when he gets to go to war.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's a dog chasing cars.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: He's just kind of like, Well, I want to go here, well, I want to do this.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: And she's really not signing off on this, or again, sometimes he's blatantly defying her.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: And there was an interesting thing that happened also in uh 1597 after the whole Spanish uh treasure incident.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the third Spanish Armada was trying to come at England, so they were right off of the coast of England, um, ready to like set sail and like get on the coastline of England.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: And he was off at sea, like the whole coast was undefended, even though he's supposed to be there, that's his job to protect England.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: He's off gallivanting, who knows what he's doing.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, panic was starting to really build up.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: People are seeing these Spanish ships.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and again, it really further damaged the relationship between him and the queen because he was told, Okay, we kind of trust you with the Spanish Armada thing, but here he is, just again, not doing his job.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: He got very, very lucky because there was a storm that came over the coast and it really dispersed the fleet.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: So they had to go back, they had to withdraw.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, a few of them tried to touch land and they were very, very close.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but he got so lucky that this storm was the reason why they left.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: But again, nothing to do with him.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't really do anything.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so he kind of is just like, oh, okay, well, rolling with the punches, seeing what happens, like I'm not in trouble yet.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: So um at this point, we're up to 1599.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: So 1591, again, spotty military career, maybe he's had some success, mostly justifies orders.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: But they think, okay, if you're going to prove yourself, here's what we want you to do: we want you to go to Ireland, where Ireland, as throughout the last few hundred years, has been known for its rebellions against um you know, English rule, against the English crown.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: And Ireland is Catholic, England is Protestant right now with Elizabeth I.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: Think Elizabeth Ambolyn, Protestant.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: Protestant, exactly.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: So in the mid- they're already in the middle of what's called the nine-year war with Ireland.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so he decides, you know what, yeah, 1599, I'm gonna go into Ireland.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be there quick, like as quick as possible.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go back to England, uh, you know, as a as a war hero.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna crush the rebellion.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's not gonna be super hard.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: And his main opponent in this is um the rebel earl Tyrone or Tyr Tyrone.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Tyrone.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Tyrone?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Tyrone.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: We'll call him Tyrone.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so You did good.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: You done did good, kid.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so so he goes and he thinks this is gonna be easy.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and this is in April 1599.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, by September 1599, nothing's happening.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: He keeps going to the wrong part of the country to fight battles.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: He's going to the south.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile, losing battles where the actual battles are happening because his army isn't there.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: He's also in charge of 16,000 troops.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's wild.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: And doesn't know where to put them.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: And these guys are just dying for him.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like they don't know where to go or what to do.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: And when they do face anything, they're not great.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: So just wasting money.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, wasting people's lives, wasting money, like trying to figure out what to do.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: He's just generally lost here.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so he gets frustrated by September 1599, and he says, Okay, I got the solution, guys.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: Don't you worry.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to strike a truce with the rebel earl.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna strike a truce with Tyrone.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: So he like does this truce, zero authority to do so.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing, you know, is ever told to him about a truce.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: He was in there with the expectation of just crushing the rebellion.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's this is the beginning of the end for him, really.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: This is the final straw.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: He's already been so defiant, and then now he's blatantly um doing something completely against the queen's orders, like right behind her back with one of their greatest rivals.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: So in September 1599, after he does this, he goes back to England, and the first thing he does is he it's like early morning hours, and he just runs to the Queen's chambers, like runs into her dressing room.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: What so so excited to show her, like, look, I fled my post.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I wasn't aren't you happy?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm alive.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't, she didn't even want him to leave Ireland, he wasn't supposed to be in London.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: No, so she had no authority to do this truce, no authority to come back, nothing.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: And he kind of comes back like, Hey, I need to speak with you, like, look at what I've done, you know, and again, aren't you happy that I'm alive?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: And she is in no makeup, no wig, no proper clothing, and this is just a huge sign of disrespect.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's one thing to gamble with the queen to late hours when she's ready for you and wants that company.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: You fly into her chambers at well, I don't know, let's just pretend it's 5 a.m.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: and like you know, sun's barely rising.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: You don't walk in on any woman at that hour.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, she will bite your head off.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: It kind of reminds me of that scene from Bridesmaids when she tries to sleep-the very opening scene.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: She tries to slip out of bed and like put on makeup.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, I just woke up like this.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then she puts herself in a very specific pose and then she kind of wakes him up and he's like, You look beautiful.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, Oh my gosh, I just woke up.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure she woke up.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, I messed.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's what a woman wants.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: They want you to see them like that all the time.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: For you to barge in unexpectedly.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: Also, at this time, this is 1600.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: This is 1599, so it's more years before her death.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: Elizabeth dies in 1603, so she's not like a young, cute chicken right now.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: She needs her makeup.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe when you're 20, you can kind of get away with it.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: Pull it off.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: All right, I just woke up like this.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: No, she needs her makeup, she needs her wig.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you can tell she was furious.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, um, and again, speaks to his cavalier nature, and he just thinks, Oh, I can I can do this.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm Robert Devereux, I'm her favorite, I can just barge in.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but this is when, again, things really turn and she's not happy.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: So he gets put on trial.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: And the first thing that he's really charged with is desertion of duty.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: They say, Hey, again, not only are you someone who didn't really do what you're supposed to do, but you completely deserted your post.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: You were given no allowance to come back.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: I have a really funny quote.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: Tell it.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: So in this trial, they're kind of like explaining the whole shit show that went on in Ireland, right?
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: How oh wait, I think I remember this.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: Is this the knight quote?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like he's he's not a fighter, he didn't tell us what to do, but he was knighting people left and right.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, like half the knighthood comes out with a knighthood.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: Someone says one of the rebel, or um I don't know if it was a rebel or he was on the rebellion, maybe they said he never draws swords but to make knights.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like he's a pussy.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: He never actually fought, he never drew his sword just to actually fight, but he would just like for the glamour of it all, and knight people and he likes the title and he likes the authority, but he doesn't like to make friends, yeah.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: And he does, but he doesn't actually do the job.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is a great quote, too.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so he obviously did nothing except for knight people, try and make friends, not really fight, and then make a truce.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: Make a truce, which was not part of the plan, and then desert his post.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, free.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: So he is lucky that he was of such high status and that again he was in such favor of the queen.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because at this point, they just say, Okay, we're gonna put you under house arrest.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Easy.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: So he's under house arrest.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, terrible.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: In their vast estates.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: In his house of Essex.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, shame.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Full shame.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so he's he's under house arrest, but by June of 1600, they they want to take it a little more, a little further.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: So they officially kind of deprive him of his post.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: And this is when um they they say, Okay, we've been giving you all this this money, this passive income from your sweet wine monopoly.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: So we're and I think that there's about like 10% of all sweet wines or something went to Robert Devereux.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: Can we just call it wine?
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's the thing?
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why it's sweet wine.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: Is that like port wine or like no?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like England drank a lot of wine, though.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: So earn 10% of the taxes on that.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's a lot.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: What did he do?
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's just a gift.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's just like a little carrot that Elizabeth gave him.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what you do when you favor people, as we've learned throughout all these stories.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, all of a sudden when you're in favor with a king or queen, you just are bestowed lands and titles and you know, taxes from other people giving them to you, you know, and I just don't get why you would deserve the tax from but I guess that's yeah, that's royalty.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: Royalty.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: Get it?
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: So he's already up on his first trial, which by the way was a five-hour council that he had basically with his peers, but all his peers hate him, so that didn't work out so well.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: No, gets put on house arrest, he finally gets released, and you would think that he would just play nice.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: You would think he would be humble and realize the position he was in.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: And he was really walking on thin ice and he got away with it.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: He was forgiven.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: He had house arrest, a slap on the wrist.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: He yeah, he lost some of his titles and his privileges.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: But if he had really begged, got like literally gotten on his knees and cried to Queen Elizabeth and said, I was a fool, I'm so sorry.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: I've learned my lesson.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: He could have lived his whole life.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: Did he do that?
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: No, he did not.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: And side note, men who listen to this podcast, that's what you need to do all the time.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Just ask for forgiveness.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: Just beg.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: All a woman wants is to see you beg and be sorry for something.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you don't believe it, you gotta do it.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta do it.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: He makes matters worse.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: He starts to gain followers, tries to like make a whole reasoning for himself of he just can't admit that he was ever wrong.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: And he wants to get all of these friends, so-called peers, who um put him on trial and gave him house arrest.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: He wants them all to be impeached.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the goal of the rebellion.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: He gains followers, they storm into London.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: On February 8th, 1601.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: The issue is, is the Londoners are like, ooh, I don't know if this is a good idea.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: And most of them kind of like Queen Elizabeth.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: They're not really ready for a coup.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: Essex has really no good reason to like Elizabeth's cool.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no one really wants this.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: The funny part is, too, in retrospect, looking at history through this lens, a lot of these people who actually do go with him to March on London and to March on the Queen, they were also involved in the gunpowder plot.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: Circa Guy Fawkes.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: Great sense of judgment, these people.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: So they I think they're just looking for some fun.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: They're looking for some riots.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like they just like some like chaos happening.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: He starts getting into London though with his so-called followers, and he can see London, the Londoners just shutting down.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, nope, I don't want anything to do with this.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna get involved.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm shutting my windows and have fun.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so his little army, shall we call them, starts disbanding and they kind of start like, yeah, yeah, you're you're on you're on your own with this one.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, buddy.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: I thought this was a good idea, but now that we're here in the moment, we're in London, like, eh.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um I have to go to the bathroom.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to the pub.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be back.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: They instantly have to surrender.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like they did not stand a chance.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: They go in hot and it barely lasts not what hours of that.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even think so.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think upon sight they were like, okay, it was a joke.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: He had no ground and no reason to go in and try to start this rebellion against his queen who just favored him, like who just got him off on a slap on the wrist.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: So he's arrested.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: And this is the actual Yeah, I think you I think what was it you said earlier?
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: You said something like this was the final straw.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but like this was the final straw.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: This was the actual like when Elizabeth likes somebody, she's like, This is it.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm warning you.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, this is the last straw.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: No, this is the actual last draw.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, but this is the really fun.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: You can't start a rebellion.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: Come on.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: No, this is the the end.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was a very easy decision that him and his co-conspirators were all guilty of treason.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: High treason.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: He was sentenced to the death of high treason, which as we know is drawn and quartering.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's a traitor's death.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's when you're hanged for just a little bit so that you're half dead, not quite dead.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just just to make it uncomfortable.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then they make sure you don't die.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then they open you up, they disembowel you disembowel you, they take out all your insides.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then they burn your insides in front of you.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you see.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: And if you start to pass out, they will throw water on you to make sure you're watching all of this, and then they inevitably just um will cut off your head, your arms, your legs.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's limbs first, isn't it?
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, is it?
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: I forget the order because it's been a while since our Braveheart episode where we describe this in detail.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: William Wallace was drawn in quarters.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I think it's yeah, like each of your limbs and then the head is last kind of thing.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: So you're supposed to be as alive as you can be through most of this.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: Speaking of Elizabeth, the movie, the one that I just sorry.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I can't do air quotes.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: They can't like air quote on a podcast.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: Speaking of the HBO show show, Elizabeth, yeah, there's a very, very graphic scene of drawn and quartering.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: If you ever want to know what it looks like, like there's people like throwing up and like it's really bad.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's gotta be so gross.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to go for that.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: After I've had all my cheese and meats just yeah, I'll show you.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um luckily though, Elizabeth has a soft spot.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: Queen Elizabeth.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, so sweet.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: And me.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I was mostly referring to Queen Elizabeth, but she has a soft spot.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like we've heard this so many times.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like this happened with Sir Thomas More also.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: They also, I think there's like this scare factor when they're in the court and they go, You will be hanging, drawn, and quartered.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then they just like turn pale.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're like, that's the worst of the worst.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then like, okay, we'll just be heady.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: You're just gonna take off your head, which we think is a simple task.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let me tell you.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: February 25th, 1601.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost 8 a.m.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: And this is on Tower Green of the Tower of London.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: So uh our our friend, Mr.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: Robert Devereux, at this point is wearing a black velvet gown and a black hat.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: Gown?
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: I put gown.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: Cloak.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: You wore a gown.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: Fetch me my cloak.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: Ensemble.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: Ensemble.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: I wrote gown, but you're right, it's probably cloak.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: He's not wearing a dress.
• 39:37
  unknown: I hope not.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's late.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: My eyes are heavy.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, no, but so he he goes up to the scaffold.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he is first and foremost, he's professes his thankfulness to God.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: He actually says something along the lines of the sins of my life are more a number than hairs on my head.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: I have the quote.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what say the exact quote.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: This is his final execution speech.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like it.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: You are right with that first line.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: Hold on.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my sins are more in number than the hairs on my head.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: I have bestowed my youth and wantonness, lust and uncleanless uncleanliness?
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uncleanness.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uncleanness.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: Not familiar with that word.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's in the Bible a lot, I think.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: I have been puffed up with pride, vanity, and love of this wicked world's pleasures.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: For all which I humbly beseech my Savior Christ to be a mediator to the eternal majesty for my pardon, especially for this my last sin.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: This great, this bloody, this crying, this infectious sin.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: That was nice.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's my bedtime alarm.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say, I was like, is that my phone?
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm just duolingo telling me to practice French.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: Where was I?
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, infectious.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: I beseech God to forgive it us and to forgive it me, most wretched of all.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: Most wretched of all.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: This is why I'm not allowed to read things because I I get overly dramatic, I get distracted, I get Well, your phone.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: I can't I can't read things.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: I can I know.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, I I wing it a lot when I read out loud because as I know when I know I'm fucking up when I'm reading out loud, I just kind of change it so it makes sense with what I already said.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, is that the strategy?
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't work all the time.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say, not in this instance, anyways, but if I'm reading a novel out loud, I'm just like and then and then they all went to the pond.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: So he has this elaborate speech.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: Elaborate speech where he admits his vanity and his arrogance, his puffed up pride.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then he takes off his gown slash cloak.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: Megan's laughing.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because she's imagining this very large gesture.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm also laughing about how he just admits his pride, and then what does he do?
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is the best.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I have a coat on, so I'm gonna take it off, and I hope you hear it.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: But he's like, he's like, I'm sorry, I'm so prideful.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: Then he just goes and he looks the audience in the eye.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: And he's wearing a waistcoat that's scarlet, it's red, which is the color of martyrs.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: So he's already making this big statement like I'm martyr.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: Prideful, also, I'm a martyr.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: Take my head.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: Mary Queen of Scots also wore a scarlet dress.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, a few a few years before him, and he goes, Executioner, strike home, which quite quite the drama queen, I think, personally.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: And quick side note too, I like that he says executioner strike home.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because when Megan and I were at the Ren Fair, um, her husband Jake got like one of these coins that is pressed via this big, like massive iron, I want to say, that just drops down on the coin and just goes boom, like just smashes it so it impresses a little emblem.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: And there's this lady who I'm sure she has no job other than to sit there with her cool hat, like her like pirate hat that has all these like little coins on it, and she just goes, Good strike, my lord.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: She doesn't move, she's like this dinosaur.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: She just goes, Oh, good strike, my lord.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I just imagine like this executioner, someone like his little his little squire next to him, like the good strike my lord.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: Speaking of the executioner, the executioner's name was Thomas Derrick.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: In the words of our Elizabeth.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: Fun fact.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: Fun fact.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: Thomas Derrick was actually pardoned by Robert Devereux for rape.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: So he was trying.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Guilty of rape, he was pardoned.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: And Robert Devereux said, I will only pardon you.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: Also, what power does he have to pardon people?
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: But sure.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I didn't even know he had that authority.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't have any authority to do anything.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, truce, pardon, knighthood.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: You get a knighthood.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: You get a truce.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: You get a pardon.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: He just makes up his rules as he goes along.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then Elizabeth's like, what are you doing?
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, oh, no, I not allowed to do that.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: Anyways, he pardons his own executioner, Thomas Derrick, saying, I will only pardon you if you agree to be an executioner.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: Talk about the irony.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: He's now executing him.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's a lot of irony.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure he in that moment would have liked to have any other executioner but Thomas Derek.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: Thomas is like, sorry, bro.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: So he um removes.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: I also wrote the word gown.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: See, thank you.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: He had a fucking gown on, okay.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: He removed gown.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: He said the Lord's Prayer.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he said two verses of Psalm 51.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: He said he prayed a lot.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: He stretches out his arms.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: He kind of like was done with praying.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: He stretches out his arms and he and like you say he goes, executioner strike home.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: How many blows?
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: Not one blow.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: Not two.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: Three blows of the axe.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: Which means there are two blows where you are not dead yet.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: That means that is not a good strike, my lord.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: And he missed twice.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: Pew.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: And like, do you think he did that on purpose?
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because he's like, you made me become an executioner, so you're gonna really feel it, or is he just bad at his job?
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think it could go either way.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: He's not a really a trained executioner.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like most executioners-like you said it's in their family.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's inherited like a like a trade down into them, and they learn from their father.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: He's just thrown into this job.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: A, he probably doesn't like it.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: Did we read how many executions this guy's had?
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: Wasn't it something like 3,000?
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: Let me just click on his name on Wikipedia and it will tell me everything I need to know about him.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: Derek had executed more than 3,000 people in his career.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: So for not being a, you know, quote unquote, like you know, like growing up with the trade and your family, he did pretty good.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I guess he even created a beam that had like a lift and pulley system for hangings instead of the traditional just like a rope over the beam method.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's pretty impressive.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: He, you know, he was an entrepreneur.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe he did like it then.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe he did okay.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: He invested some new ideas and wanted to make improvements and processes and SOP and interesting.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: Listen to this though.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: It even says, according to Wikipedia, it's You're ignoring all my jokes.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I got all your jokes.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: KPIs and metrics.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, standard operating procedure.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: No, but this is this is in line with that.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: It says the word Derek became an eponym for the frame from which the hangman's noose was supported and through the usage um to modern cranes.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: So Derek became some sort of like name for the whole frame of the hangman's noose kind of thing.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_00: Which is crazy.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: So he is.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe he should have been better at his job.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, maybe that was later in his career.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe this is early stages when he's just getting used to it.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe he needed like a summer internship.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: Does this say when he was born?
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: 16 No.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: You're looking at the wrong.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: This says yeah, this says English executioner circa 1608.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: So it doesn't say when he was born.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: He's too lowly to know his birthday.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: It says Yeah.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, here you go.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: In English history, executioner was not a commonly um chosen career path because of the risk of friends and families of the deceased knowing who the executioner was and where to find them.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: Executioners were sometimes coerced into the role.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: Derek, in particular, had been um convicted of rape but was pardoned by the Earl of Essex on the condition that he became the executioner at Tyburn.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it doesn't say anything about his date of birth.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: They're saying, though, that he was executioner around 1608.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: Get it more accurate.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, it was at least 1601.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, but whatever.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: But maybe again, maybe that was very early in his career.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it was like So maybe he was still pardoned.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: Pardon, you're an executioner, your third execution is the Earl of Essex, and then you go on to kill, you know, over 2,000 people.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: He had to have done all this within the past 10 years, which is when Essex was in favor and had the ability to pardon.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're thinking about this too much.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, fascinating figure, this this Thomas Derrick fellow.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: All in all, um three blows.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: Three blows.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: His co-conspirators were hanged a few weeks later, March 13th.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um which I have a question on that.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: So apparently Robert Devereux was the last person to ever be executed at the tower.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: So where were his co co-conspirators killed?
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, on a lawn just outside.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, on the grassy knoll south of the tower.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: Overlooking the city.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: That worked, that checks out.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, but that is a fun fact.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: Fun fact um is that Robert Jever was the last person to ever be executed at the tower.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: It was kind of wild.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like I you would think it would go on longer than that.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: I find his his story just to be he's just such an idiot.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like he had everything.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: He had the favor of the queen.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_01: He got off once, he messed up many a times, got off pretty easy, and then just made it worse for himself.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like if you're in those families, you know, like the Boleyns or the Seymour's, like you've seen this story play out before.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can't just gain favor and stay in favor.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't happen.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_00: You fall out of favor very often.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: So you don't look at your grandparents and you're like, oh, wait, how did Auntie, you know, Anne Boleyn die?
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, he was obsessed with her, and then one day he decided like he wanted to move on.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: You have to be a little more careful.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like all these people in this court at this time, you should really know better.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: They all think it's not gonna happen to them.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, which is the ego, right?
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like everyone thinks, like, oh, not my story.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: But hey, sorry, sorry, Robert Devereux, it was your story.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's it.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's all we got.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good one.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: The second time around.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: We actually learned more the second time around.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: We did, and we continue to learn in the middle of the episode.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: We did.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: We went deeper on this Derek fellow.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: Do a whole nother episode on him.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: That'd be fun, actually.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_00: We talked about doing some sort of off-season thing where we we talk about just execution methods.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: Or torture methods, torture methods, yeah.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: Big hits.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, that is very and executioners.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: If you had a you know, weak stomach going into the Roman Coliseum episode, you probably won't like our execution slash torture method episode, but that'd be a fun one.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh yeah, and maybe executioners would be good, like famous executioners.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: I like oh Elizabeth, I want to keep eating this cheese sitting in front of us.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to continue to eat the cheese now.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_01: Really quick, any final words?
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, I gotta eat cheese.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.