Latest / PNW Haunts & Homicides / The Normandale Park Shooting: Pt. 1

Transcript

The Normandale Park Shooting: Pt. 1 · PNW Haunts & Homicides

0:00
[MUSIC]
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>> Dacia reflected that it seemed like he was trying to manufacture a
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standard ground type scenario.
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>> I was gonna say I've been thinking it just seems like he just wants,
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he just wants something bad to happen.
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>> Mm-hm.
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>> With statements like, make me and let's do this.
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>> They're saying no, let's not do this.
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>> Yeah, literally.
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>> She said, it really, it just felt to me like he was a bomb.
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[MUSIC]
0:39
>> Hi Cassie.
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>> Hi Caitlyn.
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>> Hi Creepy people.
0:43
>> Hello.
0:44
>> Hello.
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>> This is PNW Haunts and Homcides,
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where we chat about true crime,
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the paranormal and all things,
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spooky in the Pacific Northwest or the PNW.
0:57
>> It's the nasty.
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>> And we do terror reading at the end of every episode for
1:03
a little deeper insight into our topic.
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>> That's a thing.
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>> I said that really fast.
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It kind of sounded like it's a tarot reading for a terror reading.
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>> We do tarot cards.
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We do witchcraft here.
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If you don't like it, it's cadetto.
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>> Boy.
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>> We also slip into English accents that are probably terrible,
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but we can't help it.
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>> Sometimes I think that we get a little bit confused because
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there are so many parts of the world that
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speak with some iteration of a British accent.
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>> Yes.
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>> You know, and we're not making fun.
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We're appreciating.
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>> No, we love it.
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>> So anyway.
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>> Any who's all.
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Benjamin Jeffrey Smith was born on November 28th, 1978,
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in Concord, Massachusetts,
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and grew up in Indiana before relocating to Portland, Oregon as an adult.
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>> Ah, the PNW.
1:57
>> Was he nasty?
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>> He was, yeah.
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>> Mm-hmm.
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>> Yeah.
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He's pretty nasty.
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>> Oh.
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>> Around that same time is when he began getting involved in the furry community.
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>> Hold up.
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>> What?
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>> Yeah, I wouldn't get excited about it.
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>> I want a furry episode.
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>> Eat, I mean.
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>> This is so interesting.
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>> Yeah.
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>> I mean, we're only going to talk about it for like five seconds.
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>> Man, I got so invested.
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>> I know.
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>> Adopting the persona of a small male bunny and the nickname PolyBun or Polyhead,
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according to a tweet posted by Drake Dushype by The Alias.
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>> Okay.
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>> PolyBun was one of the original founders of the #BabyFurIRC channel
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on Furnet.
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>> Oh, I don't know if I like that.
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>> It's a whole string of words that didn't mean a lot to me at the start of this.
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Had to do a little bit of digging.
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>> I would imagine so.
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>> Yeah.
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>> Yeah, I don't know what any of that means.
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>> Yeah.
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>> Mm-hmm.
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>> Yeah.
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>> As a gay man and practicing furry, he's probably one of the last guys you'd expect
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to get red-pilled.
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But from there, it's a pretty predictable tale of misogyny and hate in the most heinous
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forms.
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He also felt down the rabbit hole of COVID conspiracy theories and became staunchly anti-mask.
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>> Wait, did you do that on purpose?
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>> Why?
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>> We felt on the rabbit hole because he dressed like a bunny.
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>> Oh, I didn't.
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I think rabbit hole is just plain.
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>> So, it did just mean?
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>> Yes.
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>> It's so extremely associated with this case.
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I feel like in ways that aren't going to be clear at this point other than the obvious.
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>> That's pretty funny, though.
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>> Okay.
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>> Throughout lockdown, he was chronically online complaining about the Black Lives Matter
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movement and Antifa and spewing anti-Semitic rants.
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>> My favorite.
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>> He was enraged by protests in the city of Portland.
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According to a former roommate, he believed that extreme violence rather than peaceful protest
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was the only way of making one self-heard.
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He hated protests about racial violence and injustice in particular.
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>> Why?
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>> Remember how we talked about the red pill?
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The city of Portland made headlines all over the country for a number of them that took
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place during the pandemic.
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And you may have heard the city being mentioned again recently by the Cheeto and Chief.
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>> Oh, I hadn't heard.
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>> It's a lawless place.
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>> Yes.
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>> So, let's talk about public demonstrations, dissent, particularly those aimed at peaceful
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community action.
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Corking is the practice of protecting marchers from traffic by placing one's car, bike, or
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body to create a physical barrier near intersections and cross streets.
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>> Okay.
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>> I was able to observe several minutes of footage with detailed explanations of how
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the practice is designed to keep the community moving safely.
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Corking, it's important to note, is a volunteer action for protecting those participating
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in peaceful protests or demonstrations.
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Both words are used interchangeably.
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In some contexts, I feel like it can be helpful to say demonstration as opposed to protest
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because the connotation just can be very different.
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>> Right.
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>> But I digress.
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The term should not be confused with cuddling, a police crowd control tactic where officers
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surround and contain a group of demonstrators.
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That brings us to my new hyper focus and obsession, forensic architecture.
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And I promise there's a good reason I'm talking about it because I'm going to talk about it
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for a minute and you might think that I've gone insane.
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And you're not entirely wrong.
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But I do have a good reason.
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>> Just, you just felt on a rabbit hole.
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It helped me out.
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>> It's a rabbit hole thing.
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>> The forensic architecture is a research agency based at Goldsmiths University of London
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that investigates human rights violations using architectural and media analysis.
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The organization has received awards like the right lifelihood award, otherwise known
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as the alternative Nobel Prize and a Peabody Award for co-creating an entire new academic
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field and emergent media practice.
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>> That sounds super impressive.
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>> Pretty much is, their apartment smells of rich mahogany and many leather bound books.
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>> I like the alternative Nobel Peace Prize.
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>> Their work has even been admitted as evidence in legal processes in various jurisdictions,
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including the US, UK and other parts of Europe as well as Israel and South America.
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>> Wow.
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>> Yeah.
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>> They've got a lot of really interesting stuff coming out of Israel and Ukraine right now.
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>> Oh.
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>> So I bet.
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>> Yeah.
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>> Wow.
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>> Really, really highly suggest.
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Obviously, for the purposes of time management and adulting, I've only been able to dive
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into so many of their different resources and but really, really highly recommend if you're
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interested in checking it out that you do.
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They're basically a badass, lobe trotting organization that uses digital 3D modeling for
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human rights, investigation and documentary purposes.
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>> Ooh.
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>> That's cool.
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>> Yeah, so you know when you see those shitty 3D model reenactments in, I mean, all kinds
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of documentaries and these are not that.
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They are impressive and I was pretty fucking excited.
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As an organization operating in a highly sensitive area, they have faced criticisms regarding
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their methodologies and potential bias, particularly in context of political conflicts.
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And I think that's fair.
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We should examine organizations in these types of spaces critically.
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>> Yeah.
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>> Yeah.
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>> Though in this case, such criticism has largely come from NGO Monitor, which has itself
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been criticized by academic figures, diplomats and journalists for allowing its research and
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conclusions, speech driven by politics, for not examining far-right NGOs, which is
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a string of words that you shouldn't, they don't, I didn't like it.
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>> Nope.
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>> And for spreading misinformation.
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>> NGO Monitor is a Jerusalem-based organization that promotes largely pro-Israel viewpoints.
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The leader of the organization has ties to the Israeli government, having served as a consultant.
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Curiously this and other similar information has been omitted from his official profiles
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that are published in English.
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>> Of course.
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>> And I'm done obsessing over.
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I had to really look into this because I was like forensic architecture is so cool.
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>> That is really cool.
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I need to know what is the legitimacy of this.
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Because the last thing that I want to do is think that I've come across something that
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is shining a light and it's really just like, you know, shitting into a, I don't know.
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>> I don't know.
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>> I don't even know.
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>> Shitting into a 3D model?
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>> Yeah, shitting into a 3D model.
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>> Yeah.
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>> Yeah.
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Exactly.
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But I'm providing so much context on the background of the organization and maybe it's overkill,
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but it's because I think not only is what forensic architecture doing really remarkable,
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but their resources were so helpful.
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It was invaluable to me.
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>> Oh, nice.
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>> In the research for this case.
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>> I'm trying to talk about the 3D rendering of and/or they have actual footage.
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And that's a lot of what that documentary piece is based on.
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They have actual, you can describe it like body cam footage.
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>> Oh, okay.
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>> Yeah, I'm interested to see what is this because I don't exactly know what this is yet.
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I want to see how is it used?
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>> I really think I would really like actually for the two of us to watch a portion of it.
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>> Okay.
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>> And you're going to already know the case.
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So we don't even have to watch the whole thing.
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Although it's only like, I think, 36 minutes.
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I only say watch part of it because it's not an easy watch because of the body cam footage.
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And they've done really well to kind of clip in places where it's based on what's occurring.
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It's graphic and it's violent, but it's not gratuitous.
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It's all done very clearly to make the details clear and to drive home certain points,
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but it's all done in a way that it's not like a secretuitous.
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But yeah, the further you get into it, the harder it gets to watch.
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>> Yeah, I can imagine.
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>> Yeah.
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On the evening of February 19th, 2022, there was a demonstration scheduled to take place
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starting off at Norman Dale Park in Portland.
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That evening, a group of support workers were gathered on the west side of the park in
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preparation for a Black Lives Matter March.
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They were helping to coordinate.
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The demonstrators were marching in recognition of the deaths of a mere lock of Minnesota and
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Patrick Kimmins from Portland, Oregon.
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A mere lock was a 22 year old black man who was shot and killed by a Minneapolis police
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officer executing a no-knock warrant, though a mere was not the subject of or named in the
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warrant.
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>> Okay.
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>> They no longer do that type of warrant in Minnesota anymore.
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>> I can't imagine why.
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>> Yeah.
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>> On face value, you can understand the benefit of executing a warrant and not letting
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that person.
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It's like when police show up at a scene without sirens.
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>> Okay.
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>> You have a tactical advantage there, but once you breach dwelling or other bills,
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you're not holding that person.
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For all they know, they are literally having to take their own life, their own self-defense
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into their hands.
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>> Yeah, I was going to say that just seems like a good way to get shot.
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>> Yeah.
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>> Yeah.
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>> And unfortunately, that is proven to be the case over and over and over and over again,
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actually.
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Patrick Kimmins was a 27 year old black man killed by Portland police during a 2018 altercation.
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The circumstances of that shooting have at times been hotly debated as part of an intense
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discourse about policing and racial injustice.
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Forensic architecture used a 3D model of the Normandale Park and surrounding neighborhood
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to illustrate the events of that day.
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Their models are intended to be measurable by the millimeter.
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>> Whoa.
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>> So, I'm just going to jump into a series of events and introduce the people involved
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based on the timeline of the night.
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>> Okay, I'm going to get cozy here.
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Get cozy.
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>> Not because I'm comfortable with what's happening, but because I need to be comforted.
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I need to be comforted.
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>> Yes.
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>> I'm not comfortable.
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I need comforted.
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I need comforting.
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>> Yes.
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>> Yeah, no, that's fair.
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Pilton arrived at 7 p.m. at Normandale Park, followed by Deja, who got there at approximately
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715, and the crowd really hadn't begun to gather yet.
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By 724, another corker named Dague arrived and parked next to June's car.
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>> The protective people.
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>> Mm-hm.
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>> Yes.
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So, for ConTech.
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>> For ConTech.
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>> Kettling Pat.
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>> Yeah.
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I mean, I'm sure in some context that Kettling can serve a purpose, but I just felt like
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in the context of this case, it's important that we create distinctions between certain groups.
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>> Okay.
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>> So, for ConTech, all of these kind of support workers related to the demonstration, they were
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on the opposite end of the park from where all of the marchers were going to be.
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>> Okay.
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Because typically, you have your corkers, they're kind of a big part of the support team.
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They're kind of on the back end.
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>> Okay.
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That makes sense.
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>> Yeah.
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Because what they're trying to avoid is what has happened in some of the worst viral videos
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about protests where people just come up behind a group that's marching and just plow
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through them, that type of thing.
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>> Yeah.
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I hate that.
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>> It makes a rival was shortly followed by another fellow corker, Hank, at 728, who was
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among the last of the group to arrive, and Parknext to June's vehicle on the opposite side.
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I just thought it was really funny, Hank was like, now I was like one of the last show up,
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because I'm always late.
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>> No.
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>> It sounds like us.
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>> Yeah.
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>> By 731 PM, a crowd was gathered on the opposite side of the park for the march scheduled
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to begin at 8 PM.
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Smith, who we introduced at the very top, first approached the group of corkers at around
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731 PM.
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He asked a strange question.
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How long are you going to be here?
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He wanted to confirm the itinerary presumably, which when he was informed that the march was
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scheduled to begin at 8, he checked the time and walked away from the group.
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Cass, a street medic amongst the group, said their pre-meat for the march was at around
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740 PM.
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Hope a volunteer armed guard said he wasn't aware of anyone else on the organizer team that
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was openly carrying that night.
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Hope said they were specifically wearing a badge indicating their role as another street
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medic.
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So openly carrying in the sense that they were in no way openly carrying and their duties
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were clearly designated as a medic.
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At the pre-meat, Deja informed the group of a change in their route, taking them past
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unhoused neighbors.
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And I love this nomenclature because why can't we use language to lead with love?
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Their intention was to keep things relatively quiet in the neighborhood.
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Right as the group was embarking on the march, Deja and Pilton shared a heartfelt moment.
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This was just such a close community of people.
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Todd and Hank were talking as they were preparing to leave and that's when they saw someone standing
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by a street light that was out.
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Just creepy, like super ominous.
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The single, creepy as visual that I can summon at the moment.
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The man appeared unhappy about their presence.
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The group on the opposite end of the park was alerted by organizers that the march was
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beginning.
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Hope stowed their weapon in the trunk of their vehicle as they began hearing raised voices.
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Enter an angry, swearing, caveman who was informed that the group was leaving.
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The organizers leading with attempts to de-escalate any brewing situation.
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So they're like, "We're dead.
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We're leaving.
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We're out of here.
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It's all good."
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He responded, "If I ever see you again, I'm going to shoot you in the head."
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Jesus.
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Deja reflected with the forensic architecture team that she shared with June's wife.
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She knew basically immediately this was not an individual that could be de-escalated.
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That individual was Benjamin Jeffriesmith.
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She began recording after about 20 to 30 seconds of the situation, seemingly beginning to
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quickly escalate.
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Okay.
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That's a good idea, right?
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Like, get that shit recorded?
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Absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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And I think normally once they actually take off on the march, she typically did just run
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her camera.
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Oh, okay.
20:25
Yeah.
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A lot of stuff.
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She was prepared.
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The forensic architecture piece then shows some of the footage she captured that evening
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beginning at 7.57 pm.
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Smith then begins to exhibit more physical force in the conflict, beginning by aggressively
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approaching one of the organizers and then fully charging at them.
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Geez.
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He has worn off.
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He has a salt and I don't want to fight with you.
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Just go home.
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Remember that he's already been informed that they are leaving and the organizers already
21:05
beginning to posture to file out as they were literally scheduled to do.
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Deja reflected that it seemed like he was trying to manufacture a standard ground type scenario.
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I was going to say I've been thinking it just seems like he just wants something bad
21:23
to happen.
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With statements like "make me" and "let's do this."
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They're saying "no, let's not do this."
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Yeah, literally.
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She said, "it really, it just felt to me like he was a bomb."
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She called, say, "Wakitakis."
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She called, "we need de-escalation on the corner of the park, immediately where the cars
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are parked, immediately."
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Other organizers were approaching from the opposite side of the park in response.
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It was almost immediately after that that he brandished the weapon, quickly firing multiple
22:02
shots on the group at close range.
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Calls went out to others in the group.
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Gunshots, gunshots, gunshots.
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It was at 758 that Deja called for de-escalation then within a matter of seconds he fired several
22:21
shots.
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And in the interim, June had stepped up to him.
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She was probably one of the oldest in the group and she had physically put herself between
22:38
him and several others and just was like, "this is done.
22:47
We need to just go home."
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The guard within the organizers was able to return fire within seven seconds of the gunman's
22:55
initial shot.
22:56
So remember, this is, he's literally put his weapon in the trunk of his vehicle.
23:04
At this point, I'm through 23 minutes of just under 37 minutes in total that have been
23:12
a very difficult watch.
23:15
The guard hope fires twice in response.
23:19
The shots of the two weapons were indistinguishable to those present at Northeast 55th and Haselow Street
23:27
at the southwest corner of Normandale Park that night.
23:31
Smith responded to the armed guard hope when questioned about the whereabouts of his gun
23:36
in the aftermath, pointing toward his left ankle as he lay on the ground and stated,
23:41
"It's right there, but I wish I still had it so that I could put it in my mouth."
23:46
You should have done that first.
23:47
That would have been super a lot better for a lot of people, hoping sure that the weapon
23:54
was removed from his immediate access, cast quickly began rendering aid to Deg and Pike,
24:01
another medic who stated he'd been shot in the head.
24:08
She was shocked to realize when she looked up that there was a hole in his beanie and she
24:12
thought to herself, "So you have."
24:16
And obviously that poor medic was bleeding pretty profusely.
24:21
When police arrived at the scene, the mood was very tense.
24:26
Understandably, I think it was a Black Lives Matter protest.
24:33
The street medic cast spoke with officers stating, "I'm an EMT.
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Six people have been shot.
24:38
Can I go back to treating my patients?"
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Video footage of deja screaming at the officers that they needed help.
24:47
This is the part that I started really ugly crying.
24:53
It's pretty heart-wrenching.
24:55
That was at about 8.10 pm.
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Police was given the go-ahead to continue trying to administer aid to the injured.
25:03
Officers approached Ali who had been shot multiple times, asking questions as she sat
25:08
likely in shock in every sense of the word, still seated in her vehicle.
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Cast told officers, "She's been shot four times.
25:20
You don't need to interview her right now.
25:22
She needs medical attention."
25:24
It's not uncommon for them to try to interview up until the point that EMS arrives and they're
25:31
just trying to get as much information as they can.
25:34
That's understandable to a point, but when you see it from the other side, of course, it feels
25:40
very dispassionate.
25:42
Especially when someone's been shot that many times.
25:44
They're hurting.
25:47
My mind doesn't even work.
25:51
I'm just frustrated right now.
25:53
Just the idea of the situation is enough to make you just go nonverbal and just like,
26:00
"Ugh."
26:01
You just need to comfort somebody in that state.
26:05
Maybe sit there and talk to them.
26:07
Maybe not just bombard them with questions.
26:09
I don't know.
26:10
Yeah.
26:11
It's tough because you got to thread the needle.
26:16
Especially someone that's been shot multiple times.
26:18
You're like, "Well, we want to get the information so that we can find the person that did
26:22
this."
26:23
Yeah.
26:24
I mean, and that's an awful thought in that moment.
26:29
Well, I just feel like there's some way for training to happen to where these things can
26:34
be possible for like sensitivity and getting information.
26:38
Like, you don't think there's some sort of way?
26:43
Maybe.
26:44
Maybe.
26:45
I don't know.
26:46
I'm not a professional.
26:47
Yeah.
26:48
Whatever.
26:49
Yeah.
26:50
There's a lot of whatever.
26:52
The first ambulance arrived at 8.14 p.m. and Cass attempted to share what she had observed
26:58
so far in terms of those that were injured.
27:01
At that point, she was grabbed by an officer who responded, "I don't care," when she said
27:06
she was an EMT.
27:09
This is a homicide investigation.
27:11
If you don't get off the scene, you're going to be arrested.
27:14
Only people actively treating, actively engaged in medical treatment can be on here.
27:20
And she was escorted away.
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It wasn't that what she was doing or no.
27:24
I mean, it was.
27:25
Okay.
27:26
It was to that point.
27:29
So yeah, it's hard to say.
27:32
June T. Rex Knightley.
27:34
T. Rex.
27:37
Who was shot in the head at close range died on the scene that night as a result of her injuries.
27:44
Others that were wounded received medical attention in the wake of the emergency response
27:49
to the horrific shooting, including none other than Smith himself who had been shot in both
27:56
the lower abdomen and bowel.
27:58
He's the shooter, right?
28:00
He sure is.
28:01
And I got to say, for my money, hopes a good shot.
28:07
Yeah.
28:08
He fired two shots and they both landed.
28:12
Oh, yeah.
28:14
I really hate that this is where part one ends.
28:18
Oh, I told you it was going to get a lot worse.
28:23
It's hard to say that because nothing about this is good and I hate to even try to like
28:30
categorize, but I want to know what happens to everybody else.
28:37
Yeah.
28:38
So June passed.
28:40
June passed away at the scene.
28:42
And she was the elderly woman.
28:44
Yes.
28:45
Yeah.
28:46
She actually became involved with the group and started quaking after she saw a BLM march
28:59
coming through her neighborhood.
29:02
And she decided to get involved.
29:03
Gosh, she took her job so seriously that she did.
29:07
She stepped in front of a gun for people.
29:10
Yeah.
29:11
At that point, she was not aware that this man was armed, but I mean, somebody behaving
29:17
erratic and violent.
29:18
There's always a chance.
29:20
There's always that possibility.
29:21
And if it's not a gun, it could be a knife or she was quaking, protecting.
29:27
Yeah.
29:28
And I have a feeling that she's maybe not the only person.
29:33
Yeah.
29:34
Well, join us next week for more devastating fucking news for Caitlin.
29:38
That's so sorry.
29:40
I know.
29:41
We always say it though, it's really important to talk about these things.
29:43
So that's why we research it and present it to you in a form that maybe hopefully you
29:48
like to listen to.
29:50
Yeah.
29:51
So you get the info.
29:53
Yeah.
29:54
And hey, I did lead with the, you know, the stuff about the bunny or whatever that's
30:02
worth.
30:03
I was really excited when you started talking about Furious.
30:06
I was like, Furious crimes.
30:07
Here we go.
30:08
Let's go.
30:09
Yeah.
30:10
I can take a run at finding something maybe a little bit more lighthearted.
30:16
I want some furry.
30:17
I want some furry shenanigans, okay?
30:20
I'll see what I can do.
30:22
Covered lubu furies.
30:24
That's got to be a thing.
30:25
There already is a little bit of furry.
30:27
I was like, that's got to be a thing.
30:30
I mean, there already is puddles already.
30:32
Don't.
30:33
Come on, man.
30:34
Give us the times.
30:36
Puddles are feathery and a furry.
30:39
Yeah.
30:40
Well, should we do our tarot?
30:44
Yeah.
30:45
For Pup.
30:46
All right.
30:47
We've got kind of an autonomy pumpkin evil for the alter.
30:57
And this is for part one.
30:59
And we've already shuffled the deck and put our powers that be into it.
31:05
And I'm going to guide cute ones little thingies with my mind here.
31:08
She's going to pick the perfect card.
31:11
Feel my mind in your mind right now.
31:13
You know, the cards feel like a different temperature vibrate.
31:17
Yeah.
31:18
That's what I thought too.
31:20
Oh, really?
31:21
Yeah.
31:22
Oil.
31:23
I mean, who would know if I was full of shit?
31:28
King of cards.
31:29
Okay.
31:30
That's not when we get all the time, but a freak won't hear.
31:32
Do you want me to set it out on the alter?
31:34
Oh, yes.
31:35
Sorry.
31:36
I'm a tight-to-tool.
31:37
You look at it real quick.
31:38
It's a sea turtle.
31:40
Europe.
31:41
I love that it's got like purpley, purpley vibes.
31:44
It matches kind of like our coloring.
31:46
You've got like blue and green and I've got purple and green.
31:50
Oh, yeah.
31:51
You pulled it in the upright.
31:52
It looks like to me.
31:54
Yeah.
31:55
Okay.
31:56
So, King of Cups, keywords are benevolence, culture, creativity, emotional warmth and protection.
32:05
Oh, protection.
32:08
And all I can think is what you said about, "I'm going to be thinking about June for part
32:15
one."
32:16
100%.
32:17
What was thinking about June?
32:18
In many decks, this King sits on a throne and wears rich garments and a crown.
32:24
He usually appears as a benevolent authority, a father figure, who rules kindly and fairly.
32:32
And in reading, the King of Cups may signify an actual person when he does it's generally
32:38
a mature man who's cultured and knowledgeable in the arts.
32:42
And we've talked about this before in tarot.
32:45
They say like man and woman, they really kind of mean like a male energy or a female energy.
32:51
Yeah.
32:52
And I don't.
32:53
I was June a female.
32:54
I don't really know if you speak technically.
32:56
Maybe who knows what they would buy it really in their heart.
32:59
Yeah.
33:00
You don't really know.
33:01
So, but I kind of was getting like a more of a male vibe from June, like a protector sort
33:07
of vibe, not to say like, I don't know.
33:10
Yeah.
33:11
You guys get what I'm trying to say, like a masculine.
33:14
This is so interesting.
33:16
When the King of Cups appears upright, he represents strong emotions and creative talent.
33:23
If he represents a real person, it's someone who wants to be loved and admired.
33:29
He may go to great lengths to gain your attention and affection.
33:36
Although he's easily hurt, he may not show it and can hold a grudge.
33:41
He can be rather indulgent and controlling, but his friends can count on his support and
33:47
protection.
33:48
Who part of that though kind of reminds me of like the bad side of that?
33:53
Yeah.
33:54
It's kind of almost like the flip side.
33:55
Although I could see someone who's like kind of the oldest person in the group kind of
34:02
being like, we're going to do it this way.
34:03
Yeah.
34:04
A little bit.
34:05
And like controlling doesn't necessarily have to be like abusive.
34:08
No.
34:09
For a planner.
34:10
Yeah.
34:11
But I'm also thinking about it as it like in terms of the, it can be representing energy for
34:16
more than one person.
34:17
Yeah.
34:18
Like the man who was being aggressive and things like feelings easily hurt, could hold a grudge.
34:24
If you're not like a good positive person, like maybe June was, you could have these similar
34:29
vibes, but like you could be totally different people.
34:32
Yeah.
34:33
Like the outcomes are totally different.
34:35
One's a protector and one is a murderer.
34:38
Right.
34:39
One of you is June and one of you is BJ's.
34:41
One of you is a piece of shit.
34:43
BJ's.
34:44
Literally BJ's.
34:45
Blowdrops.
34:46
Benjamin Jeffrey Smith.
34:48
Oh.
34:49
That's too nice of a thing for him to be named after.
34:52
I think it good vibes when I hear BJ.
34:55
I don't want to think about this guy.
34:57
And I have to be graphic or cruel.
35:00
But he, that, that may have, it could be that his current role in life has a lot to do with
35:10
that.
35:11
Oh, okay.
35:12
Enough said.
35:13
Interreading about money, the king can mean receiving money through a creative venture.
35:20
Or it may suggest your emotions are influencing a financial matter.
35:26
Sometimes it represents a financial backer.
35:29
If the rating is about your job, the king can describe a creative occupation.
35:34
However, he may indicate you're longing for something better.
35:39
Perhaps you've grown complacent.
35:42
In a question about love, this card represents a deeply emotional, committed, and romantic
35:48
relationship.
35:49
It can suggest jealousy and possessiveness.
35:53
However, or a need for more trust and openness.
35:57
I feel like there needs to be more trust and openness with the police and the protesters
36:04
and things like that.
36:06
You know, it's funny though, because like the first part of that actually makes me think
36:11
of June and her partner, just in terms of the deeply emotional, committed, and romantic
36:18
relationship.
36:19
Listen, people are complicated mammals and some of them are good and some of them are less
36:31
so.
36:32
I think it makes sense.
36:36
Yeah.
36:37
I think that was good card.
36:40
Yeah.
36:41
I think what you said to about like being complacent, like maybe just, you know, kind of what
36:47
we were talking about, like it doesn't affect you.
36:50
So, you know, right.
36:51
First they came for.
36:52
Completely.
36:53
Yeah, exactly.
36:54
You knew what I was talking about.
36:56
Mm-hmm.
36:57
Yeah, we had a little bit of an off mic conversation about.
37:00
Oh, I thought that was on mic.
37:02
It wasn't.
37:03
Oh, I'm getting on.
37:04
I'm getting my life mixed up.
37:07
That was that was during their snack break.
37:09
Oh, well, we were talking about complacency.
37:11
Yeah.
37:12
A little bit.
37:13
And fascism and Nazi Germany.
37:15
A little light snacking conversation.
37:18
Just like a super light combat.
37:20
That's funny that I like didn't even realize.
37:23
Oh, wait.
37:24
Those were two server conversations.
37:26
It's ties in.
37:27
Yeah, it does.
37:28
Afereless.
37:29
It's so seamless that, yeah.
37:31
I mean, like these people who are organizing protest and demonstrations, like they're not
37:37
being complacent, right?
37:39
And they're a lot of the like creativity.
37:42
We still need like a lot of creativity to organize those things.
37:45
Yeah.
37:46
Absolutely.
37:47
Yeah.
37:48
Just tying more shit into the card.
37:50
Yeah.
37:51
I don't know.
37:52
Part of me was nervous about this case a little bit because certainly it centered around
37:57
more than one politically charged topic, but I feel like, I don't know, hot take here.
38:05
Maybe don't kill people on the street for no reason.
38:10
On either side.
38:11
Yeah, just just probably don't do that.
38:14
Can we not shoot people anymore?
38:17
Can you not?
38:18
Go away.
38:19
Goons are bad.
38:20
I'm okay.
38:21
Oh, come on.
38:22
Yeah.
38:23
Wait, we need to do the outro.
38:28
We don't have an outro.
38:29
Oh, it's kidding.
38:31
I forgot.
38:32
Okay.
38:33
I'm a human being.
38:34
Go.
38:35
Have a creepy ass day.
38:36
We'll see you next Tuesday.
38:37
We'll see you next Tuesday unless you're fucking murder.
38:42
Yeah.
38:43
And then we'll see you never loser.
38:45
Get the fuck out of here.
38:47
You're not going shopping with us.
38:50
On Tuesdays, you were orange because you're in prison.
38:55
Jump suit.
38:56
Get it?
38:57
I thought that was pretty clever.
38:59
Whatever.
39:00
What does Red Pill mean?
39:06
Red Pill is like when people go all right, psycho misogynist.
39:10
Okay.
39:11
I just want to double check.
39:12
You said it to me earlier and I assumed that's what I meant.
39:14
Yeah.
39:15
And then like now you're saying it and I'm being recorded.
39:16
So I just want to say it.
39:17
Yeah.
39:18
No, that's fair.
39:19
You cut that out, they let you go.
39:20
You did.
39:21
You did.
39:22
Sometimes I think about that though.
39:24
I'm like, oh, like I wonder if, but I'm like, if I stop to explain every, I'm like,
39:31
I feel like it's like in the zeitgeist.
39:33
Yeah.
39:34
When you're the person that's like, where the one's talking about it, it's like we
39:38
should be on the same page.
39:40
Like if they don't get it, they can Google it.
39:42
Yeah, you don't know.
39:43
Yeah.
39:44
All right.
39:45
[laughs]