Latest / The Living Waters Podcast / Ep. 188 - How to Interact With a Child, Relative, or Friend Who is a Member of the LGBTQ Community

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Ep. 188 - How to Interact With a Child, Relative, or Friend Who is a Member of the LGBTQ Community · The Living Waters Podcast

• 1:05
  Oscar Navarro: I want to know what you would think, because there's two questions.
• 1:07
  Oscar Navarro: Do you use the name?
• 1:08
  Oscar Navarro: Do you use the Preferred pronoun?
• 1:11
  Oscar Navarro: That's two different questions.
• 1:13
  Oscar Navarro: I think I would consider it two different.
• 1:15
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, how would you do that?
• 1:16
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, I mean with my child, absolutely not.
• 1:19
  Emeal Zwayne: With a friend, absolutely not.
• 1:21
  Emeal Zwayne: You know, I may meet a stranger, I may not know what they fully are, and they, they give me their name.
• 1:26
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean a name is a name in the sense that you know Someone can say Terry, and Terry is interchangeable male and female, you know, um.
• 1:34
  Ray Comfort: Diana's not.
• 1:34
  Emeal Zwayne: Morgan is interchangeable.
• 1:36
  Emeal Zwayne: You know you have different names.
• 1:37
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, diana's not.
• 1:37
  Emeal Zwayne: But I'm just saying, like you know, it could be a tricky situation with an unbeliever, but with a someone that I know it absolutely not.
• 1:47
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, again, we're talking about Extrapolating and saying, well, what about this, what about that?
• 1:52
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, what if someone changes their name to I hate God and they want me to call them that?
• 1:56
  Emeal Zwayne: I think you know like, of course not, I'm not gonna do it.
• 2:00
  Emeal Zwayne: There are those, those situations where we have to step back and say, no, I'm gonna.
• 2:04
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm gonna sit down with my child and I'm gonna say I love you with all that there is within me.
• 2:09
  Emeal Zwayne: The worst thing I could do for you is play along.
• 2:13
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm not gonna give in to this insanity that the world has adopted as reality and and contribute to your deception.
• 2:22
  Emeal Zwayne: I love you and because I love you, there's no way I'm gonna call you that.
• 2:27
  Emeal Zwayne: You're my, you're my child.
• 2:28
  Emeal Zwayne: And you may think I'm unloving because you think I'm saying, oh, I don't want to have Contact with you.
• 2:35
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm telling you I want to have all the contact in the world with you.
• 2:37
  Emeal Zwayne: It's good, but I'm gonna continue to call you what I named you and I'm gonna continue to use the pronouns that belong to you.
• 2:44
  Emeal Zwayne: We have seen iguanas on shoulders.
• 2:50
  Emeal Zwayne: We've seen snakes around the necks, we've seen falcons on wrists, but as a first-ever in human history, friends, ray Comfort has decided to live life with a dog on his head.
• 3:05
  Ray Comfort: Well, you've seen that picture oh yeah.
• 3:07
  Ray Comfort: Picture it looks like a living wig right.
• 3:10
  Emeal Zwayne: What in the world is with you and Lucy On your head?
• 3:14
  Ray Comfort: every night, almost every night, she comes running up, runs up the back of the seat and climbs over and just lays on the head, with her head down in front of my eyes, and I I actually like it.
• 3:24
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, I have, it makes me feel like Davey.
• 3:25
  Ray Comfort: Crockett or something.
• 3:28
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, you sent one the other day and I thought first I was thrown off.
• 3:31
  Emeal Zwayne: I thought this is a very bizarre ugly, dirty wig.
• 3:37
  Mark Spence: If you want to see it right, it's on Ray's Twitter page, is that right, ray?
• 3:41
  Mark Spence: Where did we see that?
• 3:42
  Ray Comfort: I think it's on my Twitter page, yeah yeah.
• 3:45
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, ray, why you live in your life this way with a dog on your head.
• 3:48
  Emeal Zwayne: Have you met Ray Comfort?
• 3:49
  Emeal Zwayne: You know what, ray?
• 3:51
  Emeal Zwayne: For years you've been trying to figure out how to draw crowds.
• 3:54
  Ray Comfort: This is it.
• 3:54
  Emeal Zwayne: The old dog on the head.
• 3:55
  Emeal Zwayne: Just strap Lucy permanently to your head and that'll get Billions of people to look at you.
• 4:01
  Oscar Navarro: We went to the dog store where you're like, um, what kind of dog you live from what?
• 4:04
  Oscar Navarro: What would be on my head?
• 4:07
  Mark Spence: To pay dog to pay dog.
• 4:09
  Emeal Zwayne: So okay, when you see someone with a snake around your neck, your neck, their neck, when you see someone with a snake around their neck, is that I mean it's gotta be for attention?
• 4:19
  Emeal Zwayne: Why in the world would anyone put a snake?
• 4:23
  Ray Comfort: around that.
• 4:23
  Ray Comfort: It's a potential interview.
• 4:25
  Ray Comfort: That's what I see.
• 4:25
  Ray Comfort: It's all Ray sees Uh-huh wait mark.
• 4:28
  Emeal Zwayne: Didn't you witness to it?
• 4:29
  Emeal Zwayne: Someone with a snake?
• 4:30
  Mark Spence: I did to the snake, I witnessed to the snake and they listened in.
• 4:33
  Mark Spence: Was that a Satanist you witnessed?
• 4:34
  Mark Spence: Yeah, there were two Satanists, and the one guy, the husband, was a pro-life.
• 4:41
  Ray Comfort: She was a Satanist.
• 4:42
  Ray Comfort: Oh, that was a.
• 4:43
  Mark Spence: And the other one was yeah, that's on our YouTube channel.
• 4:46
  Mark Spence: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but she changed her mind.
• 4:48
  Mark Spence: That was really neat.
• 4:49
  Emeal Zwayne: That was a really good idea.
• 4:51
  Mark Spence: No, the woman.
• 4:52
  Mark Spence: Oh, sorry yeah.
• 4:54
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, I mean you know persona, right, Like when I see someone with a Just a massive pit bull and they've got the spikes around its neck and the thing just looks it's like that.
• 5:05
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean I'm trying to imagine someone doing that with a snake around their neck and a dog I'm saying at the same time and a dog on their head.
• 5:12
  Emeal Zwayne: I think the dog on their head would eliminate the whole thing.
• 5:15
  Ray Comfort: I would never like a snake, a remnant.
• 5:17
  Ray Comfort: I mean just the thought of the snake thinks I've had enough of you, I'm done, I'm just gonna squeeze yeah squeeze and I kind of Ray speaking of parrots, that's legitimate.
• 5:32
  Emeal Zwayne: Okay, ray, you got bitten by a parrot once.
• 5:35
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, it was Humiliating, was actually a crowd watching because this guy was homeless.
• 5:41
  Ray Comfort: My heart broke from me.
• 5:42
  Ray Comfort: Listened to the gospel, I think.
• 5:43
  Ray Comfort: Um, he did.
• 5:44
  Ray Comfort: And then I said can I pray for you?
• 5:46
  Ray Comfort: And he said yes.
• 5:47
  Ray Comfort: I put my hand on his shoulders a big parrot there and I didn't think the parrot would say to herself lunch.
• 5:52
  Ray Comfort: So served up lunch a little.
• 5:54
  Emeal Zwayne: What are you?
• 5:54
  Ray Comfort: gonna pray for him or something.
• 5:56
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, I put my hand on the shoulder to pray for my start of praying, and that's when the parrot bit my finger.
• 5:59
  Ray Comfort: I heard.
• 6:01
  Emeal Zwayne: I parent forget.
• 6:02
  Emeal Zwayne: Charlie parrot bit my finger.
• 6:04
  Emeal Zwayne: You know, I used to have a parrot named Bart.
• 6:08
  Emeal Zwayne: You did not, I did.
• 6:09
  Ray Comfort: I had a goat named Abraham.
• 6:11
  Emeal Zwayne: Did you really?
• 6:12
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, yeah, bart, and I used to stick Bart's head in my mouth and it would peck my teeth.
• 6:19
  Oscar Navarro: What's wrong with you?
• 6:20
  Emeal Zwayne: I have no idea, but it was a cool thing.
• 6:22
  Emeal Zwayne: I have a picture somewhere of his head in my mouth.
• 6:24
  Emeal Zwayne: Was he like picking off the food?
• 6:25
  Emeal Zwayne: I don't know what he do, but he loved it, he wanted.
• 6:27
  Ray Comfort: he wanted to be a dentist.
• 6:30
  Emeal Zwayne: Dentist parrot.
• 6:31
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, I was doing my dentist the other day and he said he absolutely loves every minute of what he does Looking down human drain pipes.
• 6:40
  Emeal Zwayne: It really loves a dream and I just said.
• 6:43
  Ray Comfort: I, I thank God we're all different, because I couldn't think of anything worse.
• 6:47
  Ray Comfort: We've all got a friend here who loves looking at warts and things like that.
• 6:50
  Ray Comfort: Oh, oh, helitosis.
• 6:52
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, seriously like, how do you deal with that?
• 6:55
  Emeal Zwayne: You just finished lunch.
• 6:56
  Emeal Zwayne: You come, someone opens their mouth and they have the worst Hello toast is imaginable.
• 6:59
  Emeal Zwayne: You drop something down.
• 7:00
  Oscar Navarro: Let's get Rachel on the lion and ask her deals with it.
• 7:05
  Ray Comfort: Halsis is a good word because it begins with the right wording.
• 7:08
  Ray Comfort: Hello.
• 7:09
  Emeal Zwayne: No hell.
• 7:12
  Ray Comfort: So okay, you guys mentioned.
• 7:14
  Emeal Zwayne: Ray, you're talking about a snake and all that good job.
• 7:15
  Emeal Zwayne: So would you rather be eaten by a lion or squeezed to death by an anaconda?
• 7:22
  Ray Comfort: I'd rather be squeezed to death.
• 7:23
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, anaconda, I think, because the lion might say I'm gonna stretch lunch out today.
• 7:27
  Ray Comfort: I'll start with a leg or something.
• 7:30
  Oscar Navarro: Oh, I feel like for the line I feel like you're gonna pass out before you feel most of the pain, torture and death with the Snake, the lion.
• 7:37
  Oscar Navarro: I don't yeah to your point.
• 7:39
  Oscar Navarro: I don't want to sit there and watch him just eat my insides.
• 7:41
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 7:43
  Ray Comfort: You know what to do if we're all thrown into a big lion's den.
• 7:45
  Ray Comfort: I've told you what to do.
• 7:46
  Ray Comfort: No, I should.
• 7:47
  Ray Comfort: I've told you before you run at the wall with your head down.
• 7:54
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, knock yourself out first.
• 7:56
  Emeal Zwayne: All right friends, and up of all that stuff.
• 7:59
  Emeal Zwayne: This Podcast is no.
• 8:02
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm gonna give a comment.
• 8:03
  Emeal Zwayne: Why don't I always want to go to the resource?
• 8:04
  Emeal Zwayne: This is from Bre tall white.
• 8:08
  Emeal Zwayne: Welcome to a friend group to glean wisdom.
• 8:11
  Emeal Zwayne: I've been listening for a couple of months now and love this podcast.
• 8:15
  Emeal Zwayne: All four men take their walks with the Lord seriously, with Thanksgiving and joy.
• 8:19
  Emeal Zwayne: This is displayed through the friendship on Display, as well as their convictions on each topic.
• 8:24
  Emeal Zwayne: I recommend every time I'm around someone, my dad and I like to start our texting or in person conversations with all right friends.
• 8:32
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, you're now my best friend, bre.
• 8:39
  Ray Comfort: Out of the end.
• 8:40
  Ray Comfort: Thanks for reading this white rick's?
• 8:42
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, we have no idea what we're doing.
• 8:43
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and this podcast, friends, is brought to you by the gospel of John Million.
• 8:51
  Emeal Zwayne: Is that what we call, that thing?
• 8:53
  Emeal Zwayne: Million dollar gospel of John.
• 8:54
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, there we go.
• 8:55
  Emeal Zwayne: Million dollar gospel of John and Ray.
• 8:57
  Emeal Zwayne: Where did that idea come from?
• 8:59
  Emeal Zwayne: By the rain, I just thought of it.
• 9:02
  Ray Comfort: It was in the pack files and I pulled it forward it just came out.
• 9:05
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, I'm trying to remember, ray.
• 9:07
  Emeal Zwayne: When was the first time we did something with currency?
• 9:12
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, it was head Bill Gates on it.
• 9:13
  Ray Comfort: It was a million dollar.
• 9:15
  Mark Spence: Oh yeah and I put them in a pad.
• 9:17
  Ray Comfort: So that you'd rip one off.
• 9:18
  Ray Comfort: There were actually the hundred and I got the Put two in the pad, but that didn't work, because every time you gave someone a million dollar bill, there's this gooey, sticky substance on my knee that you get when you rip things off like that.
• 9:29
  Ray Comfort: Yeah it was a ripoff.
• 9:31
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and then, and then we went from that to the first million.
• 9:37
  Emeal Zwayne: We just did a million did a million and then it's it actually evolved.
• 9:41
  Emeal Zwayne: Little by little little by little then we went to the billion, then we went to the trillion and we wanted to do a Brazilian, just just.
• 9:48
  Oscar Navarro: Brazil.
• 9:49
  Oscar Navarro: How many, how many million dollar bill tracks are we giving out?
• 9:53
  Ray Comfort: hundreds of millions, I think.
• 9:54
  Ray Comfort: I mean it's our number one.
• 9:55
  Oscar Navarro: It's over 200 million now.
• 9:57
  Emeal Zwayne: How many which track?
• 9:58
  Emeal Zwayne: He said million dollar bill track.
• 9:59
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, so many.
• 10:00
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, I need to get things over 200 million, which, yeah, one one, it's just one like trying to reach.
• 10:08
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, it's, it's our number one selling tract and it's just been amazing how I get, when I give one out.
• 10:15
  Ray Comfort: I think everyone's got one of these.
• 10:17
  Ray Comfort: This person gonna say what is it?
• 10:18
  Emeal Zwayne: I've had six of these?
• 10:19
  Ray Comfort: what are you doing?
• 10:20
  Ray Comfort: But they, there must be new, these new babies coming along, yeah, and the applications we've had for it.
• 10:24
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, we've done them for Halloween, christmas, we did them for the Coronation.
• 10:30
  Emeal Zwayne: There's just so many people, just they love them and we're doing them for the Olympic outreach.
• 10:34
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, what Ray?
• 10:36
  Emeal Zwayne: What are we gonna do when the world goes cashless and there's no more currency and there's nothing we could replicate it after?
• 10:43
  Ray Comfort: We do a nothing tract.
• 10:45
  Emeal Zwayne: Nothing.
• 10:46
  Emeal Zwayne: Mark of the beast track yeah.
• 10:49
  Emeal Zwayne: Million dollar.
• 10:51
  Emeal Zwayne: Mark of the barcode track yeah, yeah.
• 10:52
  Emeal Zwayne: All right friends, so make sure to check that out.
• 10:55
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, by the way, the million dollar Gospel of John is also associated with something we call the vault.
• 11:03
  Emeal Zwayne: The vault, that was brilliant, ray, the only brilliant idea I think you've ever come Know the vault was was really really good.
• 11:15
  Mark Spence: So, mark what is the ball?
• 11:16
  Mark Spence: Oh, there you go.
• 11:17
  Mark Spence: Mark, what is the way?
• 11:18
  Mark Spence: Or.
• 11:18
  Emeal Zwayne: Oscar Navarro go ahead.
• 11:20
  Mark Spence: Oscar Navarro, the explainer, the vault is it's about?
• 11:23
  Oscar Navarro: it's a little bit.
• 11:25
  Ray Comfort: Easy, would you?
• 11:25
  Ray Comfort: There's one behind you give it a Oscar, so he's not running blind.
• 11:29
  Oscar Navarro: The vault is a little bit bigger than the size of an average shoebox and it is designed to look like a bank box.
• 11:36
  Ray Comfort: What size shoes do you not not to?
• 11:39
  Oscar Navarro: it's about 15 inches long.
• 11:40
  Oscar Navarro: It designed to look like a bank vault.
• 11:44
  Oscar Navarro: You can buy one of these and when you open it up You've got a giant supply of 100 of.
• 11:50
  Oscar Navarro: Is it a hundred?
• 11:51
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, it's a hundred.
• 11:52
  Oscar Navarro: I have Gospel of John.
• 11:54
  Oscar Navarro: Million dollar bill booklets.
• 11:56
  Emeal Zwayne: Mark seems to doubt it's a hundred.
• 11:58
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm starting to think it's 50.
• 11:59
  Mark Spence: I'm gonna look it up, should we not know our resources here?
• 12:01
  Mark Spence: I think it's a hundred.
• 12:02
  Emeal Zwayne: I think it's a hundred Anyway.
• 12:04
  Oscar Navarro: Well, there's only one way you can find out.
• 12:05
  Oscar Navarro: That's by going to livingwonderscom and picking one up yourself.
• 12:08
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and friends, don't forget the mug, the mug, the mug is still selling the mug People are getting the mug with our mugs on it, and I don't mind you to pray for us, and yeah, pray for us.
• 12:20
  Ray Comfort: Mass confirms a hundred.
• 12:22
  Mark Spence: It is 100 copies of a conveniently sized Gospel of John that uses a very eye-catching cover to stir curiosity, designed after our best-selling Gospel track.
• 12:31
  Mark Spence: It's a sure way to get the world's attention.
• 12:33
  Mark Spence: Yeah, just make that up Just like that.
• 12:35
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, no credit.
• 12:36
  Oscar Navarro: And what's cool is you can keep the vault, which is a box that looks like a vault, and then revolt when you're done Right, or you can put your shoes in it, or, if you're ready, you can put three pairs of shoes in it.
• 12:45
  Ray Comfort: Actually Sue, and I live in a shoebox.
• 12:49
  Emeal Zwayne: All right, friends.
• 12:50
  Emeal Zwayne: There you have it.
• 12:50
  Emeal Zwayne: Don't forget to have an evidence study Bible at livingwaterscom.
• 12:54
  Emeal Zwayne: All right, a very important topic to discuss today.
• 12:59
  Emeal Zwayne: It's one that is becoming more prevalent.
• 13:01
  Emeal Zwayne: This would have been irrelevant if we go back.
• 13:03
  Emeal Zwayne: What A?
• 13:04
  Ray Comfort: two-weeks.
• 13:05
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, decade or two, definitely three or four.
• 13:08
  Emeal Zwayne: And today we're going to talk about how to interact with a child meaning your child, a relative or a friend who is a member of the LGBTQ community.
• 13:18
  Emeal Zwayne: Guys, it seems like almost every week the LGBTQ agenda is advancing and I remember years ago when certain things were starting.
• 13:34
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, okay, homosexuality, obviously we know it's been along for a long time.
• 13:37
  Emeal Zwayne: I remember when I was a kid there was a drama we used to watch as a family called Dynasty.
• 13:42
  Emeal Zwayne: You guys remember Dynasty Ray.
• 13:44
  Oscar Navarro: Mark.
• 13:45
  Emeal Zwayne: I know, oscar I was praying and fasting.
• 13:47
  Oscar Navarro: Was this on?
• 13:48
  Emeal Zwayne: Lebanese television.
• 13:48
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah.
• 13:50
  Emeal Zwayne: On Habibi Huka and Shawarma TV.
• 13:53
  Mark Spence: You never watched it?
• 13:53
  Emeal Zwayne: No, sorry, we didn't get that channel.
• 13:54
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, but no, it was a famous, it was a really famous show.
• 13:59
  Ray Comfort: Was it like Dallas?
• 14:01
  Emeal Zwayne: Yes it was.
• 14:01
  Emeal Zwayne: It would be equivalent to Dallas.
• 14:02
  Emeal Zwayne: It was this wealthy family in Denver.
• 14:04
  Emeal Zwayne: Anyway, their husband came out as their husband, their son came out as homosexual.
• 14:09
  Emeal Zwayne: But I remember as a kid seeing that and back then it was like what you know?
• 14:13
  Emeal Zwayne: And the response was like but they were slowly starting to bring it in Like you know, I still love you, you're my son, but this is you know.
• 14:19
  Emeal Zwayne: But to me, when the transgender thing hit, I didn't even pay attention to it because it was like, yeah, whatever you know people dressing up like women and men.
• 14:31
  Emeal Zwayne: It was just you know.
• 14:32
  Emeal Zwayne: And then, before I knew it, it was like overnight it became like something that was being legitimized.
• 14:39
  Emeal Zwayne: It was like wait, wait, wait, hold on, slow down.
• 14:41
  Emeal Zwayne: This was.
• 14:42
  Emeal Zwayne: It seemed like it was just becoming something that went from people that put on wigs and like to act like they're women to like people saying no, I am a woman.
• 14:50
  Emeal Zwayne: And then society jumping on the bandwagon and saying, yes, they are a woman, they are a real woman.
• 14:56
  Ray Comfort: And it's the emperor, has no clothes.
• 14:57
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, the emperor, yeah Well.
• 15:01
  Ray Comfort: I don't know whether it'd be male or female, so I put the emperor the emperor.
• 15:05
  Emeal Zwayne: Empress, yeah.
• 15:06
  Emeal Zwayne: And now, guys, it's become.
• 15:08
  Emeal Zwayne: All of this stuff has become so mainstream.
• 15:10
  Emeal Zwayne: There's a new letter that's added, it seems like every day, to the LGBTQ.
• 15:15
  Emeal Zwayne: What, what, what, plus, plus.
• 15:17
  Emeal Zwayne: I just don't even know what it is anymore.
• 15:19
  Emeal Zwayne: And we've talked time and again about the importance of compassion, even in this.
• 15:25
  Emeal Zwayne: So we can't step back as Christians and be like, oh right, I mean, obviously we should be grieved and vexed by the wickedness associated with it, but there are lost people behind it, and I know people listening have friends, family members that are in the homosexual, bisexual, transgender and whatever else is out there now.
• 15:45
  Oscar Navarro: I love what you just did there, easy, in case anybody didn't pick up on it.
• 15:48
  Oscar Navarro: Essentially what you did was you looked at it from a cultural perspective about.
• 15:53
  Oscar Navarro: You used phrases like the agenda, and all those things are really important.
• 15:56
  Oscar Navarro: I think we need to be educated as voters, as citizens.
• 15:59
  Oscar Navarro: Even though we are here in Babylon as exiles, we are still in a call to participate, as voters and citizens, in understanding what the agenda is.
• 16:09
  Oscar Navarro: When we look at it from that perspective, the temptation is to then take our personal interactions with friends and family members in the LGBT community and treat them as a byproduct of the agenda only, and I love that you started there but then you shifted into.
• 16:28
  Oscar Navarro: We have to still consider our compassion, and the title of this is how to interact which is personal.
• 16:34
  Oscar Navarro: It's moving away from the political and into the personal, because if we treat the individuals in our lives as a representation of the agenda, we're going to miss the opportunity to be compassionate towards them.
• 16:49
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah Right, we don't minimize sin.
• 16:51
  Oscar Navarro: We understand how we got here, but now you're face to face with a person and that looks a lot differently.
• 16:58
  Oscar Navarro: So I just I really appreciate that you sort of defined those two things.
• 17:02
  Emeal Zwayne: Thank you, Mark.
• 17:03
  Emeal Zwayne: You look like you were going to say something.
• 17:05
  Mark Spence: No, the whole thing is a bit confusing to me as well.
• 17:09
  Mark Spence: We can't define what a woman is anymore.
• 17:13
  Mark Spence: We put a woman on the Supreme Court who can't define what a woman is because she's not a biologist.
• 17:18
  Mark Spence: We say that men can have a say about abortion because they don't have a uterus and, at the same time, men can be women even they don't have a uterus, and genitalia has nothing to do with gender.
• 17:29
  Mark Spence: At the same time, someone who's in that position, who was born biologically a male, will cut off genitalia in order to now identify as a female.
• 17:38
  Mark Spence: So all of a sudden, it does have something to do with that.
• 17:40
  Mark Spence: So there's just been a mass area of confusion that is attached to this.
• 17:46
  Mark Spence: We understand that.
• 17:48
  Mark Spence: At the same time, now we need to progress to exactly what Oscar's saying here.
• 17:52
  Mark Spence: There's people in our families, in our neighborhoods, friends, people that we work with, that are struggling, that have adopted that.
• 18:01
  Mark Spence: Our YouTube video array that we uploaded Victor or Victoria you know it's moved from cross dressing into just craziness, and we are the intolerant ones if we do not just accept this.
• 18:13
  Mark Spence: But we need to move from being accepting to these things to celebrating.
• 18:17
  Mark Spence: They want us to celebrate the LGBTQ community.
• 18:21
  Mark Spence: So now, how do we, as Christians, how do we deal with our son who comes to us and says Dad, I think I'm gay, or, dad, I'm getting married, I want you to be there, I want you to be my best man?
• 18:33
  Mark Spence: How do we deal with these things?
• 18:35
  Mark Spence: And that's what this topic is about.
• 18:37
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and Ray, I want you to just kind of give us some clarity on this.
• 18:42
  Emeal Zwayne: You go out, you encounter people within the LGBTQ community all the time.
• 18:47
  Emeal Zwayne: We just released another video recently where you talked to a gentleman named Carlos, who is going by the name Diana, I believe Diana.
• 18:56
  Emeal Zwayne: And then we had the Victor Victoria thing, like you said, and especially with this recent one, ray, it was just so touching because Carlos started out talking about you know who he was and all that.
• 19:09
  Emeal Zwayne: By the end of the discussion, I remember you asked him what's your real name and without skipping a beat and I texted you about this after I watched the video he goes my name is Carlos, and it was almost like to say, yeah, I'm done with the silly stuff, kind of thing.
• 19:25
  Emeal Zwayne: And so we want to work toward the family, because there's a unique aspect there, because you finish witnessing that person, you move on, you don't see them again.
• 19:34
  Emeal Zwayne: But you have people.
• 19:34
  Emeal Zwayne: Some have people they have to live with, interact with, and there are critical decisions they have to make in those interactions.
• 19:41
  Emeal Zwayne: But generally speaking, ray, what's your approach with those in that community?
• 19:46
  Ray Comfort: Well, let me give some details.
• 19:47
  Ray Comfort: With Carlos, it was just this last Monday I went to.
• 19:50
  Ray Comfort: I go to school twice a day on my electric bike and because there's some sort of spring break at the moment, it's very sparse, so sometimes I go around the whole college and there's nobody there.
• 20:00
  Ray Comfort: This was a day like that.
• 20:01
  Ray Comfort: I was about to say, okay, I'm going back home, lord, there's nobody here.
• 20:04
  Ray Comfort: I prayed, but and suddenly I see the six foot person with eye makeup on, walking towards me.
• 20:10
  Ray Comfort: Six foot four.
• 20:11
  Ray Comfort: Six foot four I'm sorry, six foot, yeah, makes a difference.
• 20:14
  Ray Comfort: Six foot four, huge with breasts, if I may say that on a program with five o'clock shadow and eye shadow very thick around the eyes.
• 20:22
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, so six foot four.
• 20:23
  Oscar Navarro: For those who don't understand, that's about six feet taller than Ray.
• 20:26
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, it's huge.
• 20:27
  Ray Comfort: I was just looking up to this person and I said would you like to interview?
• 20:31
  Ray Comfort: And he said yeah.
• 20:32
  Ray Comfort: The person said yeah, and so I said what's your name?
• 20:35
  Ray Comfort: And he said Diana.
• 20:36
  Ray Comfort: And I thought okay, this is going to be very interesting.
• 20:39
  Ray Comfort: So we sat down and we just talked about different things and I said do you believe in God's existence?
• 20:43
  Ray Comfort: And he said yeah, but I, you know, I said no, what, what?
• 20:48
  Ray Comfort: What are you talking about?
• 20:48
  Ray Comfort: He says I'm trans.
• 20:49
  Ray Comfort: I don't think God is happy with that part of my life.
• 20:53
  Ray Comfort: And so I did what I normally do just overlook that whole trans homosexual thing and look at, look at, remember 1 Timothy, chapter one, verses eight through 10, which says the law was made for, and it gives us a list and in that list it says homosexuals.
• 21:07
  Ray Comfort: So if you want to witness to a homosexual, don't downcry his, his, his pet sin, because he's got his boxing gloves on.
• 21:17
  Ray Comfort: He's expecting you to do that as a fundamentalist, bible basher and intolerant person.
• 21:21
  Ray Comfort: Just take him through the law and show him that he sinned against God and that he's in big trouble with his creator, despite a sexual orientation.
• 21:29
  Ray Comfort: And that happened with Carlos.
• 21:31
  Ray Comfort: I went through the whole thing.
• 21:32
  Ray Comfort: And then I said have I offended you?
• 21:34
  Ray Comfort: And he looked at me and said not at all.
• 21:36
  Ray Comfort: You've spoken the truth.
• 21:38
  Ray Comfort: And he said I got to tell you.
• 21:39
  Ray Comfort: I was on my way home today to commit suicide and you stopped me today.
• 21:43
  Ray Comfort: And I was very, very moved and I said can I give you a hug?
• 21:47
  Ray Comfort: And we had a hug and I told him that I loved him.
• 21:50
  Ray Comfort: And then I said you want to pray and get right with God?
• 21:53
  Ray Comfort: And I said watch it, watch your real name.
• 21:55
  Ray Comfort: He said Carlos.
• 21:56
  Ray Comfort: And it was like you said.
• 21:57
  Ray Comfort: It was just like let's run all this junk away and I'm going to be honest before God.
• 22:02
  Ray Comfort: And so the same principle comes into play.
• 22:05
  Ray Comfort: When you've got a family member, you don't want to get caught up on the branches when you need to go to the root.
• 22:13
  Ray Comfort: And so take them through the commandments, show them they condemned before God, despite what they imagined them to be, their own sexual orientation.
• 22:20
  Ray Comfort: And it really is there.
• 22:23
  Ray Comfort: I mean, you say to anyone could you be a woman?
• 22:26
  Ray Comfort: You know if your imagination could say oh, that would be interesting, I'd like to give it a try.
• 22:31
  Ray Comfort: And suddenly you're into the demonic realm and you're possessed by a feminine spirit.
• 22:34
  Ray Comfort: You sound like a woman, a feminist and characteristics, and so you need to go to the root of the problem.
• 22:38
  Ray Comfort: So you've sinned against God.
• 22:40
  Ray Comfort: You need to save you, because if you die in your sins tonight, you're going to be damned by God and end up in hell, and that don't want that to happen.
• 22:46
  Ray Comfort: That's going for the root.
• 22:48
  Ray Comfort: Now we're going to talk about what happens if that person doesn't come to repentance.
• 22:51
  Ray Comfort: How do you handle it?
• 22:52
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, what I love about you, ray and I've seen this over and over again when you're talking to people in the LGBT Q community is you reject the idea that their identity is caught up in their sexuality, and that is a rarity in our culture today, because the LGBTQ community believes that their identity is in their sexuality.
• 23:15
  Oscar Navarro: I am trans, you are straight, and that is an anomaly in human history.
• 23:20
  Oscar Navarro: We have never directly drew a direct line between who we are and our sexuality, and yet our culture does that today and unfortunately, there are many conservatives that will often do the same thing.
• 23:35
  Oscar Navarro: They will look at somebody in the LGBTQ community and they will treat them as their primary identity, as a part of their sexuality.
• 23:44
  Oscar Navarro: They just do it from a different perspective and when you talk to these individuals, as you just pointed out, you treat someone who's transgendered in the same one that someone who confesses they've stolen, as someone who confesses they've had pyramidal sex.
• 23:58
  Oscar Navarro: You treat them as image bearers and you proclaim the gospel to them.
• 24:02
  Oscar Navarro: You don't allow them to prioritize their identity into their sexuality, and I just think it speaks volumes of your love for them and your understanding of the issue.
• 24:13
  Ray Comfort: That's very kind.
• 24:14
  Ray Comfort: That video was called.
• 24:15
  Ray Comfort: Diana was going home to commit suicide when God intervened Wow.
• 24:20
  Ray Comfort: So if anyone wants to, it's very, very moving.
• 24:23
  Emeal Zwayne: You know, mark, you mentioned the aspect of the world wanting us to celebrate this lifestyle, and that's what it is.
• 24:30
  Emeal Zwayne: People like to say, oh, I'm a homosexual, I am bisexual, I'm transgender, and in reality, rather than giving people these labels, I think we need to view it from the perspective of you choose to live a certain way and do certain things, but as soon as people legitimize a sort of a category or a title, then they begin to associate it with this is who I am, because this is how I was born, instead of no, you're choosing to do certain things.
• 25:00
  Emeal Zwayne: But now it comes to family, it comes to our children, to our relatives, and they want us to celebrate it too, in the sense that they want us to accept it and go on like life is normal, at the very least Right.
• 25:15
  Emeal Zwayne: And in fact, I've heard of someone recently who got very offended that their family, who they knew, is totally opposed to that lifestyle.
• 25:23
  Emeal Zwayne: They were offended that they didn't congratulate them when they got engaged to another man.
• 25:28
  Emeal Zwayne: And so how do we deal with that?
• 25:30
  Emeal Zwayne: How do we communicate to them that, no, we love you, but we can never and will never celebrate this, you know, and I would equate it to like someone wanting you to celebrate the fact that they are being adulterous.
• 25:46
  Emeal Zwayne: Hey, aren't you going to congratulate me, right?
• 25:49
  Emeal Zwayne: Because again, that is immorality, even if the adultery was warranted and that not warranted, but even if it was something that was permitted.
• 25:59
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, my husband said I can be adulterous, it's fine, celebrate it with me.
• 26:02
  Emeal Zwayne: We can't do that.
• 26:04
  Mark Spence: We absolutely cannot do that, right.
• 26:05
  Mark Spence: The commandments of the Lord are not burdensome, neither are the rules of my house.
• 26:09
  Mark Spence: If I had one of my kids come to me and said, dad, but I was born this way, and I would say, well, that's why you need to be born again.
• 26:16
  Mark Spence: And somebody says, well, I am born again.
• 26:18
  Mark Spence: And I said, well, we have a problem, right.
• 26:20
  Mark Spence: So we handle this issue in two different ways.
• 26:24
  Mark Spence: If somebody claims to be a Christian, I'm going to handle it different than somebody who does not claim to be a Christian.
• 26:28
  Mark Spence: If somebody's attending my church and they say that they are in a lifestyle that is practicing homosexuality, I would approach them.
• 26:36
  Mark Spence: It would be a Matthew 18 approach.
• 26:38
  Mark Spence: If they don't listen, I'm going to bring two or three other people with me.
• 26:41
  Mark Spence: Then it goes before the elders and then it enters into a place of excommunication because they claim to be a Christian.
• 26:47
  Mark Spence: That we hand them over to Satan for a season and then we have nothing to do with them.
• 26:52
  Mark Spence: If we do have any interaction with them, it's a call to repentance.
• 26:55
  Mark Spence: That's how you deal with the believer inside the house, right?
• 26:58
  Mark Spence: If my child claims to be a believer, I'm going to painstakingly and longsufferingly sit down with them, show them what scripture has to say, demonstrate that scripture alone is our source of authority and our foundation for all practices.
• 27:11
  Mark Spence: And now if they say, well, I guess I'm not a Christian, then I'm going to handle it differently.
• 27:16
  Mark Spence: I am going to show more deference, I'm going to be more respectful in my approach to allowing them to work through different things.
• 27:24
  Mark Spence: As a Christian, it's just more of a call to repentance If they do not claim to be a Christian.
• 27:30
  Mark Spence: I might use a little bit of philosophy and a little bit of science in the midst of it as well.
• 27:34
  Mark Spence: What is right, what is wrong?
• 27:35
  Mark Spence: You say that you want to live this life.
• 27:37
  Mark Spence: Well, would it be okay if I had a relationship with an animal?
• 27:40
  Mark Spence: Are you okay with that?
• 27:41
  Mark Spence: If not, why not?
• 27:42
  Mark Spence: Where do we now get our source of right and wrong from?
• 27:46
  Mark Spence: If it is up to each person individually, I'm going to try to reason with them, the same way you just did about the adultery when, hey dad, I just robbed a bank.
• 27:55
  Mark Spence: Aren't you going to celebrate with me?
• 27:56
  Mark Spence: No, I'm not going to celebrate with you.
• 27:58
  Mark Spence: There are rights and wrongs and you have a set of values as well.
• 28:02
  Mark Spence: Where do you base what do you base those on, all the while being respectful and slow to speak and quick to listen.
• 28:09
  Mark Spence: You know it's put by God's grace that we ourselves, individually, are not in that same boat.
• 28:15
  Mark Spence: So my heart breaks for any parent that is inside that position, but it's not something that we need to lose heart or grow weary over.
• 28:22
  Mark Spence: Paul Washer said the only reason why there's not more Adolf Hitler's in the world because we all have it within us to be an Adolf Hitler is God's grace.
• 28:31
  Mark Spence: So nobody's better than the other.
• 28:33
  Mark Spence: He may be in a better off position, but that doesn't make you better than so.
• 28:37
  Mark Spence: We need to see these people as individuals created in the image of God, always show dignity, always give hope and always be respectful in our interaction with them.
• 28:46
  Mark Spence: Amen.
• 28:48
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, oscar, the pendulum swings, doesn't it?
• 28:49
  Emeal Zwayne: To one extreme or another.
• 28:51
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, there's this sort of perspective of either we're just totally accepting and affirming or we're irate and angry and flying off the handle with people we can walk even our children, our family members, our relatives through this in love.
• 29:09
  Emeal Zwayne: And it is a unique situation when it comes to our family members because there are a lot more interactions and different scenarios, whether it's they're living with us or we're seeing them at gatherings, or they're inviting us to their gay wedding, or they want us to call them now he when it's a woman, and vice versa, right?
• 29:32
  Emeal Zwayne: So what are your thoughts on that?
• 29:36
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, I think.
• 29:36
  Oscar Navarro: I think when we're displaying the love of God and we're communicating the truth of God, the world is simply not gonna know what to do with us.
• 29:46
  Oscar Navarro: Which reminds me of the story that I heard, rosario Butterfield.
• 29:50
  Oscar Navarro: She was a lesbian living with her Life partner, owned a home together.
• 29:55
  Oscar Navarro: She was a professor teaching at a, a respected college on LGBT plus Q.
• 30:02
  Oscar Navarro: She was on the board of many nonprofits that were pro-LGBT Q.
• 30:08
  Oscar Navarro: She had regular gatherings I mean, she was in it and she communicates it every time.
• 30:13
  Oscar Navarro: She wrote for the New York Times or the Atlantic, something pro-LGBT Q that she would get a flood of letters and she said that she would get.
• 30:21
  Oscar Navarro: She had two piles, that she had a hate mail pile and a love pile of people that were Affirming what she did.
• 30:27
  Oscar Navarro: So she'd open the letter and she'd read it hate mail, love, hate mail, love.
• 30:31
  Oscar Navarro: And she gets one by a Presbyterian pastor that is in her neighborhood and she reads it and she says I Didn't know what, what category to put it in, I wasn't sure what pile.
• 30:44
  Oscar Navarro: So she says that she leaves it on her desk and like, goes home and it's just like trying to think through what was that letter.
• 30:50
  Oscar Navarro: And she comes back and she rereads it and she sends the guy an email because he invited her for a conversation.
• 30:56
  Oscar Navarro: And he invites her over for dinner with his wife, there in their home.
• 31:01
  Oscar Navarro: She meets their kids and he just starts asking her questions and he presents the gospel and he opens God's Word and he reads her scripture and he he says like, hey, would you do me a favor, would you consider reading I can't remember what gospel that he asked her to read and let's, we'd love to have you over for dinner again.
• 31:19
  Oscar Navarro: So they end up in this ongoing conversation, this friendship.
• 31:23
  Oscar Navarro: He'd send her emails and pray for her.
• 31:25
  Oscar Navarro: They'd have her over for dinner on a regular basis.
• 31:28
  Oscar Navarro: Now she is saved and Married to a Presbyterian pastor homeschooling three kids, and so the point that I'm making here is what?
• 31:38
  Oscar Navarro: What did that pastor do?
• 31:39
  Oscar Navarro: Rosario Butterfield say that he did three things.
• 31:42
  Oscar Navarro: First, he showed her hospitality.
• 31:44
  Oscar Navarro: He gathered with her regularly.
• 31:46
  Oscar Navarro: He invited her into gospel community, she says, be a community where everyone is repenting of something all the time.
• 31:54
  Oscar Navarro: She said that she witnessed them repenting and apologizing of these little things and it made her feel comfortable, like there wasn't a facade, like these weren't morally righteous people that felt like they were better than her.
• 32:06
  Oscar Navarro: She says that he got away from the culture war and just practice daily, ordinary, radical hospitality.
• 32:13
  Oscar Navarro: So show hospitality.
• 32:15
  Oscar Navarro: The second thing she said he did is he did not downplay sin.
• 32:19
  Oscar Navarro: He did not downplay sin.
• 32:22
  Oscar Navarro: No, that wasn't something that he held back as the reality of sin.
• 32:25
  Oscar Navarro: And third, he preached the gospel to her.
• 32:28
  Oscar Navarro: He presented what God has done for her so that she can be free and invited into what she would call a new kingdom, a kingdom that she did not know existed.
• 32:38
  Oscar Navarro: And so what can we do for our friends, family, loved ones?
• 32:41
  Oscar Navarro: We can show hospitality.
• 32:42
  Oscar Navarro: We don't downplay sin and we preach the gospel.
• 32:46
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh man, you know, ray, it's perceived to be love when we go along with everything that someone wants, and so the conclusion, though, is never drawn out right.
• 33:01
  Emeal Zwayne: So it's like, hey, if your son wants you to start calling him Cindy and he wants you, he wants you to start calling which son.
• 33:11
  Emeal Zwayne: Would it be he wants you to start calling him she?
• 33:14
  Emeal Zwayne: You know you you're supposed to do it because that's a kind loving thing to do, right?
• 33:22
  Emeal Zwayne: What would you do?
• 33:23
  Emeal Zwayne: And let's talk is we may even have differences in how we approach this.
• 33:25
  Emeal Zwayne: I want to tease us out.
• 33:27
  Emeal Zwayne: I have my perspective.
• 33:28
  Emeal Zwayne: You guys might say, no, I would do this, I wouldn't.
• 33:29
  Emeal Zwayne: What would you do, seriously, if one of your kids said a dad Call me Cindy, one of your sons call me Cindy and you start using my pronoun?
• 33:37
  Ray Comfort: She say it's Daniel.
• 33:37
  Ray Comfort: I just say call me Sunday.
• 33:40
  Ray Comfort: It gives me three days of rough to deal with us.
• 33:43
  Ray Comfort: You know, when I was Speaking with Carlos last Monday, I called him Diana probably eight times and I did it for the sake of the gospel, but I don't think I do that with one of my kids.
• 33:56
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and that was my whole point, because you this is a stranger, you're not gonna be seeing them all the time.
• 34:01
  Emeal Zwayne: You did it tactfully and at the end you brought it back.
• 34:03
  Emeal Zwayne: I said what's your name?
• 34:04
  Emeal Zwayne: Like you're breaking through on real name, your real name, right?
• 34:06
  Emeal Zwayne: So so, yeah, yeah, so.
• 34:09
  Ray Comfort: I wouldn't, I wouldn't, wouldn't do that with my kids.
• 34:11
  Ray Comfort: I'm not gonna play that, that game, and pretend that he's a girl and that his name is Cindy.
• 34:17
  Emeal Zwayne: No.
• 34:18
  Ray Comfort: Daniel, he's a boy, and that's all there is to sorry, daniel, he's an illustration.
• 34:23
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, there's, no, there's no.
• 34:25
  Ray Comfort: I'm not gonna compromise in any way.
• 34:26
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, I love him.
• 34:27
  Ray Comfort: I'm not gonna play.
• 34:28
  Ray Comfort: Play silly games.
• 34:30
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, I want to know what you think, because there's two questions.
• 34:32
  Oscar Navarro: Do you use the name?
• 34:33
  Oscar Navarro: Do you Use the preferred pronoun?
• 34:37
  Oscar Navarro: That's two different questions.
• 34:38
  Oscar Navarro: I think I would consider it two different.
• 34:40
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, how would you do that?
• 34:42
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, I mean with my child, absolutely not.
• 34:44
  Emeal Zwayne: With a friend, absolutely not.
• 34:46
  Emeal Zwayne: I may meet a stranger and I may not know what they fully are, and they give me their name.
• 34:53
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, a name is a name in the sense that you know, someone can say Terry, and Terry is interchangeable, male and female, you know.
• 35:00
  Ray Comfort: Diane is.
• 35:01
  Emeal Zwayne: Morgan is interchangeable.
• 35:02
  Emeal Zwayne: You know you have different names, yeah, but I'm just saying like it could be a tricky situation with an unbeliever, but with a someone that I know, absolutely not.
• 35:13
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, again, we're talking about Extrapolating and saying, well, what about this, what about that?
• 35:17
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, what if someone changes their name to I hate God and they want me to call them that?
• 35:22
  Emeal Zwayne: You know?
• 35:23
  Emeal Zwayne: Like, of course not, I'm not gonna do it.
• 35:26
  Emeal Zwayne: And so there are those, those situations where we have to step back and say, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna sit down with my child and I'm gonna say I love you.
• 35:35
  Emeal Zwayne: With all that there is within me, the worst thing I could do for you is play along.
• 35:40
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm not gonna give in to this insanity that the world has adopted as reality and and contribute to your deception.
• 35:49
  Emeal Zwayne: I love you and because I love you, there's no way I'm gonna call you that.
• 35:54
  Emeal Zwayne: You're my, you're my child.
• 35:55
  Emeal Zwayne: And and you may think I'm unloving because you think I'm saying, oh, I don't want to have contact with you I'm telling you I want to have all the contact in the world with you, but I'm gonna continue to Call you what I named you and I'm gonna continue to use the pronouns that belong to you.
• 36:13
  Mark Spence: Yeah, as a man, I feel exactly the same way.
• 36:15
  Mark Spence: I mean, that was so well, so well put.
• 36:17
  Mark Spence: I especially liked that.
• 36:19
  Mark Spence: That one example that you gave about what, if they change the name to I hate.
• 36:24
  Mark Spence: God, yeah, or Jesus, is a yeah, an expletive right.
• 36:27
  Mark Spence: No, I, I'm not going to do that.
• 36:30
  Mark Spence: In the same way forward, I meet a stranger and their name was was that?
• 36:33
  Mark Spence: I wouldn't do that, I would just Avoid it all together yeah, exactly.
• 36:37
  Oscar Navarro: I have a little bit of a different perspective, mostly agree with you.
• 36:41
  Oscar Navarro: No, and here's, here's where I'm coming from.
• 36:43
  Oscar Navarro: I think if there's relational value in history there and it makes sense, then you, then I would agree with you.
• 36:50
  Oscar Navarro: So in other words, like I don't think Bono's dad or mom Calls him Bono, right, I don't think Madonna's mom or dad, if they're still alive, calls her Madonna.
• 36:59
  Oscar Navarro: They probably call her by her given name there in that sense.
• 37:04
  Oscar Navarro: And in that sense I would agree with you.
• 37:06
  Oscar Navarro: I think you, you have ready relational value and currency with your children and if they're changing their name, there's precedence there to call them by the name that you've always known them.
• 37:14
  Oscar Navarro: However, names are fluid and the proof of that is I've never called you by your born name.
• 37:20
  Oscar Navarro: I've always called you easy right.
• 37:22
  Oscar Navarro: I've called you by the name that you've chosen to go by and I honor that.
• 37:26
  Oscar Navarro: It's not a lie.
• 37:28
  Oscar Navarro: It's that you've chosen to go by that name and so that's the relation.
• 37:32
  Oscar Navarro: Maybe your parents or maybe some some of your siblings still call you the original name.
• 37:35
  Oscar Navarro: They have relational value, currency in history there and it makes sense for them to do that.
• 37:39
  Oscar Navarro: But I honor your request by calling you the name that you go by now and in that same way, my variation to what you're saying and again, I mostly agree with you I don't want to participate in a lie.
• 37:49
  Oscar Navarro: I I have deep conviction about pronouns.
• 37:51
  Oscar Navarro: I cannot participate in a lie.
• 37:53
  Oscar Navarro: I feel like I'm joining you in lying if I'm calling you a pronoun that is anything but how God you created you to be.
• 37:59
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, and I will avoid that.
• 38:01
  Oscar Navarro: People who?
• 38:02
  Oscar Navarro: There are people in my life that I see on a regular Basis that go, that would prefer going by a pronoun that is not the pronoun that God gave them, and I don't participate in that lie.
• 38:11
  Oscar Navarro: But there are also people in my lives that I don't have relational currency or history with, and I've only ever met them or known them as their new name, and I have chosen to use that name with them in hopes to To honor their they're asking on something that that is, I think, a gray area and hopefully to gain relational currency with that person.
• 38:33
  Oscar Navarro: So that they feel like I'm a trusted individual that can then participate in having, you know, having doing life with them.
• 38:39
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, and so I think this is a gray area, for sure I think it's by actually gray area Let me take that back because that's that makes it sound subjective.
• 38:48
  Oscar Navarro: But I will say I think that we have a certain freedom in Christ to lead by our own convictions in this space.
• 38:53
  Emeal Zwayne: As it pertains to names, yeah, I think pronouns is pretty clear in my in up, in my opinion, but names, I see the argument on both sides is essentially, I'm saying yeah, and and again, like I was saying, if it was a stranger that I met, and just like Ray, with Diana or Carlos you know he was, he was using tact in that regard yeah, and I think yeah, there could be, I would still struggle, to be honest.
• 39:15
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, if it's a, if it's a clearly a guy and he's telling me call me Jennifer, which is, in our culture, a very, you know, clearly it's a, it's a clearly feminine name, I would really, I don't know, I would struggle.
• 39:28
  Emeal Zwayne: I would try to, like Mark said, I would try to avoid the use of the name.
• 39:31
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, I think I speak to someone for now without using the name and yeah, love and kindness.
• 39:36
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, yeah and so so I think you know it's, it's definitely touchy, but Well, let me say this too for those, for you guys, honestly, not for those listening before you guys, I, these, I.
• 39:48
  Oscar Navarro: This is one of the reasons why I love you guys.
• 39:50
  Oscar Navarro: It's because I have a great deal of respect for you, a great deal of respect how you've studied and known God's word and in all three of you have been following Jesus longer than me, and so I Love hearing your perspective because because it makes me reconsider and challenge where I'm at currently.
• 40:05
  Emeal Zwayne: So I appreciate conversations, yeah, no for sure, you know I get to you gotta work through it and there's times where you think, oh, this is definitely the way to do it.
• 40:13
  Emeal Zwayne: Someone says, well, like this because of this, and it's like, ah, okay, you know, I can, I can see that you know, and so so, mark, you know.
• 40:22
  Emeal Zwayne: Another thing is like now, weddings and Engagement parties and you know things like that where, where people are expecting family to participate in it and to Normalize it.
• 40:35
  Emeal Zwayne: So there.
• 40:36
  Mark Spence: There is no way I would attend my son's wedding if he was going to marry Another guy, the.
• 40:42
  Mark Spence: The most loving thing I can do, remember, love is giving somebody what they need, not what they want.
• 40:46
  Mark Spence: Yeah, and love is a verb, which means love is an action.
• 40:50
  Mark Spence: Right, when people say I've fallen out of love with you, you're saying I've chosen to no longer love you.
• 40:56
  Mark Spence: Yeah, right, so I'm not going to choose to turn a blind eye to sin.
• 41:02
  Mark Spence: I cannot do it.
• 41:03
  Mark Spence: And the example that we we've used time and time again dad, I'm gonna go rob this bank and would you just mind hanging out in the car.
• 41:11
  Mark Spence: You know it's full proof.
• 41:12
  Mark Spence: We're don't worry, we're not gonna eat arrested.
• 41:14
  Mark Spence: I want you to see how easy this is.
• 41:16
  Mark Spence: And then we're gonna have a barbecue at my house.
• 41:17
  Mark Spence: You know with it, you know with the money and the spoils, and we'll even give you a cut, whatever it may be.
• 41:21
  Mark Spence: No, it's ridiculous.
• 41:22
  Mark Spence: We do not celebrate sentiment or the outcome of it.
• 41:26
  Mark Spence: So the most loving thing I could say is no, I'm not going to do that.
• 41:31
  Mark Spence: I'm not going to give a gift and you are welcome inside my house.
• 41:36
  Mark Spence: If they were to call, go through and and have a and get so-called get married in.
• 41:41
  Mark Spence: Bear in mind they're not getting married.
• 41:43
  Mark Spence: Yeah, I don't know what you want to call it, but they're not getting married because Marriage has already been defined as a man and a woman by the only person who can define it, which is God.
• 41:51
  Mark Spence: Yeah, so now, if he says he's gonna go through with this civil union and he gets married, and now he wants to come and hang it up my house, they would not be able to stay inside the same room.
• 42:03
  Mark Spence: I would not allow that.
• 42:04
  Mark Spence: I would have to think through whether or not both can be inside my house.
• 42:08
  Mark Spence: You know I haven't crossed that, but if they did, if I did acquiesce and say, yeah, you guys can be inside my house, they definitely will not be in the same room that night.
• 42:16
  Mark Spence: Yeah, you know they will.
• 42:17
  Mark Spence: That will be two separate rooms.
• 42:18
  Mark Spence: So there's no way.
• 42:19
  Mark Spence: There's no way I would be a part of that.
• 42:21
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and Ray, that brings up in other scenario, right, so you have.
• 42:25
  Emeal Zwayne: I've never seen such a dejected look.
• 42:29
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm feeling I want to talk about.
• 42:32
  Ray Comfort: Physically sick and the thing to myself, the way to handle this whole thing, is moved to a far country.
• 42:37
  Emeal Zwayne: So your relatives, yeah, no, I mean it's difficult, but man, we got to work through these things, you know.
• 42:44
  Ray Comfort: But but yeah, you know you know, I was just thinking okay, they got a sleep in separate rooms and I was in there holding hands during yeah.
• 42:50
  Emeal Zwayne: So that's what I want to talk about, because this is the thing, right, normalizing it.
• 42:54
  Emeal Zwayne: You've got that there are all these repercussions that end up being related to it.
• 42:59
  Emeal Zwayne: So then you have kids, you have younger children in the family.
• 43:02
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean you've got, if you've got multiple kids, they've got cousins and you know, and you've got other other younger relatives or whatever.
• 43:07
  Emeal Zwayne: So they come over and then now they want to hold hands or they want to be affectionate not acceptable.
• 43:13
  Emeal Zwayne: Or they want to.
• 43:13
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, so stuff like that.
• 43:15
  Emeal Zwayne: You know so great.
• 43:16
  Emeal Zwayne: What do you think of this?
• 43:17
  Emeal Zwayne: My perspective is this I have no problem befriending a homosexual couple that don't know the Lord.
• 43:24
  Emeal Zwayne: They're not related to me and I've entered their lives and my.
• 43:28
  Emeal Zwayne: My attempt is to seek to reach them for the gospel.
• 43:30
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm not going to their wedding, I'm not pretending like they're married, but I'm just.
• 43:34
  Emeal Zwayne: I want to reach them for the gospel.
• 43:35
  Emeal Zwayne: I think it's a different scenario when it's your own Family members and children.
• 43:41
  Emeal Zwayne: So, which means like, okay, because we have the perspective of I want to reach this person for the gospel, right, but my let's say, god forbid, one of my sons.
• 43:47
  Emeal Zwayne: Hey, dad, I have a boyfriend now, so I don't feel comfortable to ever enter into a relationship with that person.
• 43:54
  Emeal Zwayne: That they have now to normalize it.
• 43:56
  Emeal Zwayne: It's like, okay, bring them around, let's meet them.
• 43:58
  Emeal Zwayne: But I'm not.
• 43:58
  Emeal Zwayne: I just feel like saying, hey, that can never have a connection with our family, so I'm not gonna.
• 44:03
  Emeal Zwayne: It's not gonna be.
• 44:03
  Emeal Zwayne: You guys are gonna come and hang out.
• 44:04
  Emeal Zwayne: It's not gonna be.
• 44:05
  Emeal Zwayne: You're gonna come to family events together and just hang out and we're gonna pretend like it's normal.
• 44:10
  Emeal Zwayne: I don't feel right about what?
• 44:11
  Mark Spence: about your neighbor, your two neighbors across the street and you're having a barbecue and you're getting no different people and they come over for the barbecue and they're holding hands.
• 44:18
  Mark Spence: How do you do with that?
• 44:20
  Mark Spence: And you have your kids there.
• 44:21
  Mark Spence: Yeah, that's a good question.
• 44:23
  Mark Spence: Is it different if they, if you have your kids there, or if you don't have your kids there?
• 44:26
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, I think, okay, look, in our society, there comes a time where we have to start, like, obviously Equipping our kids for this and letting them know these are the sorts of things that are gonna happen.
• 44:37
  Mark Spence: Totally it's different when it's an occasional, like you're gonna see a neighbor or whatever Versus your family and at all events, and coming over all the time, and so I don't know, right, I mean Oscar, has Oscar test told us that he's got a couple neighbors that are very outgoing it's like everybody in the neighborhood, if I remember correctly, really likes this couple and they're kind of winning the neighborhood over through their charisma, mm-hmm yeah.
• 45:02
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, we see, we see them interact with them.
• 45:04
  Oscar Navarro: Often We've also trained look our kids, I think.
• 45:07
  Oscar Navarro: I think before the last 20 years we acted as though Christians living in a Judeo-Christian culture got to approach culture as chaplains, defend orthodoxy like we understood culture as Judeo-Christian.
• 45:21
  Oscar Navarro: So we acted as chaplains towards culture.
• 45:23
  Oscar Navarro: But we are no longer in a Judeo-Christian culture.
• 45:26
  Oscar Navarro: We are in Babylon.
• 45:28
  Oscar Navarro: In Babylon, we don't act like chaplains, we act like missionaries, and so in my context, in my perspective, I do not expect my neighbors to act like Christians.
• 45:38
  Oscar Navarro: Right, that would be foolish of me, absolutely.
• 45:40
  Oscar Navarro: But, I also do not raise my children pretending like they are living in a Christian society.
• 45:45
  Oscar Navarro: So my children are well aware of the context that they are growing up in.
• 45:50
  Oscar Navarro: They are well aware of how we treat our neighbors who are in the LGBTQ community.
• 45:58
  Oscar Navarro: We treat them with love and compassion, but we also lovingly disagree with them, and so, yeah, I just think in general when it comes to raising, because you brought up like having your kids there, man, if you're not telling your kids about the LGBTQ community, like you're setting yourself up for failure.
• 46:12
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, of course we have to.
• 46:13
  Emeal Zwayne: And you know our kids, of course they fully understand it, know it, they've interacted with people in a loving way in that regard.
• 46:19
  Emeal Zwayne: But I think there's a fine line where exposure at a young age with people that are admired and that are charismatic, and can we just have to be careful, you know, I mean, Ray, what do we do, seriously, when I Ray like Every time you come to me, I think he's trying to hide, I know, and then Ray keeps getting rescued.
• 46:38
  Oscar Navarro: He's literally Mark.
• 46:39
  Oscar Navarro: Mark, You're rivelling up, Okay.
• 46:41
  Ray Comfort: Mark, Mark, I have your back.
• 46:44
  Emeal Zwayne: Okay.
• 46:44
  Emeal Zwayne: But seriously though, like again we're talking about drawing things out Like remember that plus and the LGBTQ plus man, it's got so many other things associated with it, so your neighbor is a furry.
• 46:54
  Emeal Zwayne: Okay, what A furry Remember we talked about the furries.
• 46:57
  Ray Comfort: We did an episode on these.
• 46:58
  Emeal Zwayne: That they they claim to be animals.
• 47:00
  Emeal Zwayne: Okay, okay, no, but seriously.
• 47:02
  Emeal Zwayne: So he's a furry and he wants to come over with his partner, who's dressed up like let's say his name is Mark Spence.
• 47:07
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, he's a furry and and his partner is a normal person, but they want to come over and he wants to come over on a leash, dressed like a dog.
• 47:13
  Emeal Zwayne: You know what I'm saying?
• 47:15
  Emeal Zwayne: Or your child wants.
• 47:16
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm just saying like there comes a point where you look and you say you have to say that's that's not-.
• 47:21
  Ray Comfort: No, it's just a little sign that said COVID's back, and I put it in the front of the house that takes care of it all.
• 47:27
  Oscar Navarro: I think the balance for me to get into the detail easy is if somebody comes over to my house who are, I know, are not married and they're living together, I don't look at them and go oh, you're having perma-metal sex, you can't have a barbecue with me.
• 47:43
  Mark Spence: Yeah.
• 47:44
  Oscar Navarro: However, if they're participating in sin in my backyard, I feel very comfortable asking them to leave.
• 47:50
  Ray Comfort: So what's sin in the backyard Holding hands kissing?
• 47:52
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, yeah, yeah, because, oscar.
• 47:55
  Emeal Zwayne: The difference is, though.
• 47:56
  Emeal Zwayne: The difference between that is, you can have a heterosexual couple, that may be fornicating and private, but that's not.
• 48:03
  Emeal Zwayne: It's not detected or known or sensed right.
• 48:06
  Emeal Zwayne: But if you have two men in your home and they're holding hands and being showing PDA in front of your kids, that's an advertisement, that the whole scenario is wrong.
• 48:17
  Oscar Navarro: I get that, and that is the space where I feel comfortable saying, hey, that's where you draw the line.
• 48:21
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, I mean I actually, as a prime example, we I had a family member who's going to stay the night with us and we were actually on vacation together.
• 48:29
  Oscar Navarro: They came up to our cabin and they wanted to bring their boyfriend and we were like, hey, we'd love to meet him and get to know him.
• 48:35
  Oscar Navarro: But, just so that it's clear, like we don't feel comfortable you sleeping in the same bed or even in the same room, in that matter.
• 48:40
  Oscar Navarro: But man, we're really excited that he's because I've never met the guy, I barely know him.
• 48:44
  Oscar Navarro: I mean, why wouldn't I want him around?
• 48:46
  Oscar Navarro: I want to be able to get to know him and preach the gospel to him.
• 48:48
  Oscar Navarro: We're going to be spending three days together and they decided not to come because I asked them not to sleep in the same bed and those and those are the, those are the prices we, we should be willing to pay.
• 48:57
  Emeal Zwayne: Right In terms of Mark, social interaction.
• 49:01
  Emeal Zwayne: There are people that are going to cut us off as friends or family.
• 49:02
  Emeal Zwayne: You don't ever want to talk to us again, but I mean, we have to remember scripture has principle in terms of like believers, for example, to to not associate with one, to give them over to Satan right to excommunicate them.
• 49:14
  Emeal Zwayne: We would think that's a logical you got to keep them around so you can influence them.
• 49:17
  Emeal Zwayne: But there are principles that apply to hey, we're not going to accept this and maybe there's, there will be a sense ultimately, and this crosses over into even our children, who are in that lifestyle to where they realize, wow, I can't live comfortably in this.
• 49:30
  Emeal Zwayne: This is wrong and and those who love me have drawn a line, don't you think?
• 49:35
  Mark Spence: Oh, that's it Right, I mean things.
• 49:37
  Mark Spence: Things may seem to be getting a little bit crazier to make decisions, but it really is not that complicated, and we must always remember to seek wisdom.
• 49:46
  Mark Spence: You know, there's wisdom in the multitude of counselors.
• 49:48
  Mark Spence: We're not looking to get somebody to agree with us.
• 49:50
  Mark Spence: We're looking to surround ourselves with godly men and women who are running the same race, people that we want to emulate, perhaps, and unashamedly.
• 49:59
  Mark Spence: Make your decision and remember, when you make your decision, make sure that your, your voice is seasoned with soul, that you are respectful, that you do connect with them on any level that you possibly can.
• 50:12
  Mark Spence: And we have a fly in here.
• 50:13
  Mark Spence: How is that possible?
• 50:14
  Mark Spence: It's possible.
• 50:17
  Oscar Navarro: That was like at the same time.
• 50:20
  Ray Comfort: I want to.
• 50:20
  Oscar Navarro: I know we're coming to a close.
• 50:21
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, we got to wrap up Before you say this.
• 50:23
  Ray Comfort: could I just say something?
• 50:23
  Ray Comfort: We've got a member of our staff that's very close to us, that's been fighting this dilemma for years.
• 50:27
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, I don't want to mention them, but what we're talking about is very relevant.
• 50:32
  Oscar Navarro: Well, I mean, I'm living in it.
• 50:34
  Oscar Navarro: I have neighbors who are part of the LGBT community.
• 50:37
  Oscar Navarro: I have a family who's non-family member, that's non-binary One of my closest friends.
• 50:41
  Oscar Navarro: Two of their kids are a part of the LGBT community, and so I'm.
• 50:45
  Oscar Navarro: I'm also living it and and my you know I take a lot from Rosario Butterfield.
• 50:50
  Oscar Navarro: What she said is show hospitality, don't play down sin and preach the gospel.
• 50:52
  Oscar Navarro: And there are some people that are going to I'm.
• 50:55
  Oscar Navarro: I'm worried for the day that I am told I'm not welcome in some of my friends and family members homes anymore, and if and if that happens, the thing that Ray had a fly on Mark's head.
• 51:10
  Emeal Zwayne: Sorry, just so listeners have context.
• 51:12
  Ray Comfort: Is there really a fly there?
• 51:13
  Ray Comfort: No, no, no no, sorry Oscar.
• 51:15
  Emeal Zwayne: That was a really important point.
• 51:16
  Oscar Navarro: Keep going, sorry I love these people in my life Sincerely.
• 51:21
  Oscar Navarro: I love them, I love spending time with them.
• 51:24
  Oscar Navarro: I pray for them often, and if there is a day that they tell me I'm not welcome in their home anymore, I will mourn that day, but I will find comfort in knowing that the part of me they are rejecting is the part that's in Christ.
• 51:38
  Oscar Navarro: Oh man, that that'll be my comfort in that moment.
• 51:41
  Oscar Navarro: I don't want that to happen, but if it does, that's where I'll find comfort.
• 51:45
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and again, I hope that the major consolation to us comes in the form of us having the testimony that we did it in love.
• 51:55
  Emeal Zwayne: We were compassionate, we were gentle, we were tender Friends.
• 51:59
  Emeal Zwayne: Scripture is clear on these lifestyles.
• 52:02
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, you know Romans 1, 24 to 26, and I'm giving you these to check out on your own time 1 Corinthians 6, 9, race-sided it earlier.
• 52:10
  Emeal Zwayne: 1 Timothy 1, 9 to 11.
• 52:12
  Emeal Zwayne: Look at those things, Examine what scripture has to say on the reality of homosexuality and things related to it, and walk in love right.
• 52:22
  Ray Comfort: Matthew 5, 10, 11,.
• 52:23
  Ray Comfort: Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness.
• 52:27
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, and that's what we're talking about.
• 52:29
  Ray Comfort: We're making a stand for righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
• 52:32
  Ray Comfort: Blessed are those.
• 52:32
  Ray Comfort: Blessed are you when men insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
• 52:38
  Ray Comfort: And it's because we love the Lord that we make this stand.
• 52:42
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, and Jesus divides.
• 52:43
  Emeal Zwayne: We can never forget that he brings a sword and there will ultimately be division and it's going to be over him and everything related to him and what he says and what he teaches.
• 52:52
  Emeal Zwayne: So I think you know we've thrown out different perspectives, different thoughts.
• 52:57
  Emeal Zwayne: Friends, those of you listening, I love what Mark said in a multitude of counselors is wisdom and their safety there, and so so seek that out, seek God in prayer, examine the word, glean from other believers, but whatever you do, compose yourself in a way that says I'm willing to lay my life down for you.
• 53:16
  Emeal Zwayne: Let that come through the way you interact with people.
• 53:19
  Emeal Zwayne: I consider you more important than myself.
• 53:21
  Emeal Zwayne: All of this comes out of a deep well of love, because I care for you and I would say, for those that are close family members, children and relatives.
• 53:32
  Emeal Zwayne: It is unique, it's different and you have to navigate that with wisdom, but I think you got to make sure that love is shining clearly.
• 53:39
  Emeal Zwayne: Amen, all right, friends.
• 53:42
  Emeal Zwayne: That concludes this episode.
• 53:44
  Emeal Zwayne: We hope it has stirred your heart and soul and provoked you to seek God.
• 53:49
  Emeal Zwayne: On the matter, Don't forget to check out the Gospel of John Million, the vault, where you get a hundred of them in there Living Waters, mug, the evidence, study Bible, all livingwaterscom.
• 53:57
  Emeal Zwayne: Send in your comments to podcasts at livingwaterscom and your thoughts.
• 54:01
  Emeal Zwayne: Don't forget to give us that rating and remember to join us again, boy, we've got a lot of these.
• 54:07
  Emeal Zwayne: Now, guys, we're getting close to 200.
• 54:09
  Emeal Zwayne: Unbelievable, as always.
• 54:12
  Emeal Zwayne: Thank you for joining us, we'll see you here, next time on the Living Waters podcast, where we have no idea.
• 54:19
  Emeal Zwayne: That was a week.
• 54:19
  Emeal Zwayne: Let me try that again.
• 54:21
  Emeal Zwayne: Podcast, still a week.
• 54:23
  Emeal Zwayne: I give up.
• 54:23
  Emeal Zwayne: You're losing his touch.
• 54:25
  Emeal Zwayne: Very evident that we have no idea what we're doing.