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#2018 Your Operating Manual - Dr. Cam McDonald · The You Project

0:00
Speaker 1: I'll get our team.
0:01
Speaker 2: It's it's doctor Cam, It's Doctor Tiff, and it's Fatty Harps,
0:04
Speaker 2: It's Jumbo, It's Craig Anthony Harper from fucking La Trovlli,
0:07
Speaker 2: originally from the thriving metropolis of Ballarat.
0:10
Speaker 1: Did you know that, Tiff? Did you know? I was
0:12
Speaker 1: born in Ballarat?
0:13
Speaker 3: I actually did not.
0:15
Speaker 1: Nineteen sixty three.
0:18
Speaker 2: I was one of many spent a whopping two years there,
0:22
Speaker 2: so the memories are limited, but shout out to all
0:26
Speaker 2: my homies in Ballarat. I've spent one, yeah, one thirtieth
0:31
Speaker 2: of my life there.
0:32
Speaker 1: So and I went up there the other day and
0:35
Speaker 1: did a little bit of a gig.
0:36
Speaker 2: At the RACV gold Fields and a truck threw up
0:42
Speaker 2: a rock on the window of my new vehicle and
0:44
Speaker 2: fucked up my screen. But anyway, it did not it
0:47
Speaker 2: did not feel like home, but it felt nice.
0:52
Speaker 1: It's a nice part of the world, I reckon. I
0:55
Speaker 1: like the country.
0:56
Speaker 3: I like country places, getting out of the hustle and bustle.
1:00
Speaker 1: Well I grew up.
1:00
Speaker 2: I grew up around cows and shit, so literally shit
1:05
Speaker 2: and paddocks and forests and Australian paper.
1:09
Speaker 1: Mill and all of those.
1:10
Speaker 2: Did you grow up in the rural confines or more
1:13
Speaker 2: in the urban environment, Doctor cam.
1:17
Speaker 3: I was not too far from Baleratte. Considering all things,
1:21
Speaker 3: I was in gunder Guy. Okay, so yeah, the only thing,
1:26
Speaker 3: the only memory I have of Balarat is Sovereign Hill,
1:29
Speaker 3: which is where you go gold mining and amazing stuff.
1:33
Speaker 3: But a gunder guy has a thriving population. I was
1:38
Speaker 3: gonna say metabolism of twenty four hundred people, and that
1:43
Speaker 3: number has not changed in my forty years of life.
1:48
Speaker 2: I wonder if that's the actual number or they just
1:50
Speaker 2: haven't updated it because Jan's been busy.
1:53
Speaker 3: That's true. Actually I'm working on zero data, but I
1:56
Speaker 3: just feel like it hasn't grown at all. A guy,
2:02
Speaker 3: I've never thought to question the data. That's so interesting.
2:05
Speaker 3: It's just a bit if it hasn't changed.
2:08
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what was a good story, the one
2:09
Speaker 2: that you told us off air about what you're doing
2:12
Speaker 2: last night.
2:12
Speaker 1: But we'll keep that off air. You're very welcome.
2:15
Speaker 2: He was working, he was studying, he was researching everyone,
2:18
Speaker 2: that's what he was doing.
2:20
Speaker 1: He's like, that's all good, that's all good. What goes
2:28
Speaker 1: on in Vegas stays in Vegas. Pre show is known
2:31
Speaker 1: as Vegas. How have you been? What's new?
2:34
Speaker 2: Tell me about firstly, maybe we should do this. We
2:38
Speaker 2: haven't done it for a while, but we're constantly getting
2:41
Speaker 2: a turnover of listeners and new listeners coming in. So
2:45
Speaker 2: for the people who have never met you, give them
2:47
Speaker 2: a quick however long you want snapshot of your work,
2:52
Speaker 2: your organization and what you do. Because I want to
2:55
Speaker 2: dive in a little bit into a few things today
2:58
Speaker 2: relevant to that.
2:59
Speaker 1: So he SETI no pressure, go very good.
3:02
Speaker 3: Grew up in gunder Guy and my dad was a dentist.
3:05
Speaker 1: What's a population in gunder Guy.
3:07
Speaker 3: About twenty four hundred give or takes checking give will
3:10
Speaker 3: take zero coli. So me and the other twenty three
3:16
Speaker 3: hundred nine people we spent a good. Mum was known
3:19
Speaker 3: as the pink Witch at home because she was She
3:22
Speaker 3: owned the healing center in Gundergo. We had all of
3:24
Speaker 3: the healers from various places come through and she would
3:28
Speaker 3: facilitate clients for them. And then dad was the local dentist,
3:32
Speaker 3: had a really really great dental practice, does a whole
3:34
Speaker 3: lot with byte structure and saw some amazing anyway, it
3:40
Speaker 3: did some really cool stuff, sort of a bit left
3:42
Speaker 3: of field dentistry and anyway, long story short, ended up
3:47
Speaker 3: doing X FIZZ and dietetics, exos physiology and dietetics. Wanted
3:51
Speaker 3: to save the world and fixed diabetes. By the end
3:53
Speaker 3: of exos physiology, thought I could do that with dietetics
3:56
Speaker 3: as well nutrition. Went into a PhD looking at both
4:01
Speaker 3: and how we could reduce breast cancer like poor breast
4:06
Speaker 3: cancer outcomes with a Mega three excite. That was interesting
4:08
Speaker 3: and what I found from that this is where things
4:12
Speaker 3: really change. Because I was working in private practice at
4:14
Speaker 3: the same time, and I was I'd have people coming
4:17
Speaker 3: in and I'd saying, I'm going to reverse your diabetes.
4:19
Speaker 3: That's what I was telling all of the gps that
4:21
Speaker 3: I was working, I'm going to reverse their diabetes. And
4:23
Speaker 3: some people, genuinely, I would see dramatic shifts in their
4:26
Speaker 3: blood sugar levels, and other people I would see no change.
4:29
Speaker 3: And I would be thinking, well, you're lying to me,
4:31
Speaker 3: You're not doing it properly, you're not telling me the
4:34
Speaker 3: truth about your diet history and your exercise. There's got
4:38
Speaker 3: to be a problem with you. And after a couple
4:40
Speaker 3: of years of the most dedicated client I ever had,
4:42
Speaker 3: where I threw everything that I could at her and
4:45
Speaker 3: no change, like she lost negative one centimeter on her
4:48
Speaker 3: waist after two years. I was thinking what is wrong
4:52
Speaker 3: with me rather than what's wrong with you and your adherents.
4:55
Speaker 3: So I started looking at personalization. At the same time,
4:58
Speaker 3: I was doing my PhD, and I was looking at
5:01
Speaker 3: different bodies and how they respond to X and OMEGA three.
5:04
Speaker 3: And as it turns out, there was a cluster of
5:07
Speaker 3: two or three people in my trial that just got
5:09
Speaker 3: the best results ever. And they were like Tiff, so
5:11
Speaker 3: they were sure athletic, amazing, just general superstars, and they
5:16
Speaker 3: just saw this most incredible change. And then the majority
5:19
Speaker 3: of my study population was not designed for the intervention
5:23
Speaker 3: that I was running. I was asking them to do
5:25
Speaker 3: five meals per day and different types of exercise training
5:28
Speaker 3: that didn't really suit them, and AMEGA three wasn't as
5:31
Speaker 3: big a deal for them as far as their need
5:33
Speaker 3: their micronutrientl or macro micro macro nutrient needs. So I
5:39
Speaker 3: started questioning, I can't just be giving everyone the same advice,
5:44
Speaker 3: and so I started looking into personalization. I started looking
5:47
Speaker 3: at genetics. I found you know, they were about six
5:51
Speaker 3: years into their data collection at this point, an organization
5:54
Speaker 3: called Shay Group, but they had zero health professionals practicing
5:59
Speaker 3: with it outside of the pilot group over in Europe.
6:01
Speaker 3: But they collected ten thousand individuals and followed them for
6:05
Speaker 3: five years with this really hyper specific data collection of
6:11
Speaker 3: we're going to measure every nook and cranny of this person,
6:14
Speaker 3: and then we're going to see what happens to them
6:16
Speaker 3: over five years, and we're going to start doing something
6:18
Speaker 3: with that data. Where now at three million human years
6:21
Speaker 3: of data with this very very bespoke data set, as
6:24
Speaker 3: it's grown into hundreds of thousands of individuals, and the
6:26
Speaker 3: whole idea is, we want to eliminate chronic disease and
6:29
Speaker 3: pain by the year twenty fifty. And the only way
6:31
Speaker 3: that you can do that is by having every person understood.
6:36
Speaker 3: You can't give running to everybody because fifteen percent of
6:39
Speaker 3: people get less fit when they run, and no one
6:43
Speaker 3: talks about these statistics. Twenty percent of people will lose
6:46
Speaker 3: muscle when they do resistance training in a randomized control trial,
6:50
Speaker 3: you see these non responders. You'd send people out for walks.
6:53
Speaker 3: Thirty eight percent of people don't get any benefit from
6:56
Speaker 3: the walking, but sixty two do, so you can't just
7:00
Speaker 3: give everybody the same intervention. Mediterranean diet doesn't work for everyone,
7:04
Speaker 3: Paleo diets doesn't work for everybody. And your environment affects
7:08
Speaker 3: your health, Your social life affects your health, The way
7:11
Speaker 3: that you put your brain to work affects your health.
7:13
Speaker 3: And so they quantified and measured all of these different
7:16
Speaker 3: things about what actually drives difference for your body and
7:21
Speaker 3: what's the ultimate environment that you need. And now we've
7:25
Speaker 3: got fifteen to twenty years of research under our belt
7:31
Speaker 3: of this incredibly complex data set, we've layered it all
7:35
Speaker 3: in with the evidence space so that each thing that
7:38
Speaker 3: we're looking at has evidence space sitting behind it, and
7:40
Speaker 3: then AI kind of brings it to life. We've been
7:42
Speaker 3: doing AI since twenty eleven, and the whole idea is
7:45
Speaker 3: we want the right information to hit the right person
7:47
Speaker 3: at the right time. And I've in my practice, I've
7:50
Speaker 3: seen reversal of diabetes, reversal of cardiovascular disease, MS Parkinson's,
7:58
Speaker 3: like some really really things using a combination of all
8:02
Speaker 3: the things that we do in the organization. And now
8:05
Speaker 3: we're applying that to health professionals training them, and that
8:08
Speaker 3: to be part of my job is trained health professionals
8:11
Speaker 3: running corporate well being programs where the individuals actually looked
8:14
Speaker 3: at and provided support for. Same with schools and understanding
8:19
Speaker 3: different types of learners and how that your behavior and
8:23
Speaker 3: your learning style is actually driven from your genetics and
8:25
Speaker 3: your biology, and that can help you understand things like
8:27
Speaker 3: neurodivergence and a whole lot of different things things. So
8:30
Speaker 3: we wanted to find the individual, and we want to
8:32
Speaker 3: treat the individual and bring them to their happiest place.
8:35
Speaker 3: So it's been a two decade effort and I feel
8:38
Speaker 3: like I've definitely found my life's purpose in it all.
8:42
Speaker 1: So not much. So you haven't been doing much.
8:44
Speaker 3: They've been doing a lot. I just appear on podcasts
8:47
Speaker 3: and don't do much, you know what I mean.
8:48
Speaker 1: I just don't know you want to? You just sworn
8:51
Speaker 1: around like the pretty boy spokesperson. That's what you do.
8:54
Speaker 3: That they're looking for someone pretty day, to be honest,
8:57
Speaker 3: this is all you are, very very pretty.
9:00
Speaker 1: That's fascinating.
9:00
Speaker 2: It's it's very much at odds with the typical model,
9:05
Speaker 2: isn't it The traditional model of you know, five blokes
9:10
Speaker 2: go in with high blood pressure and they all kind
9:12
Speaker 2: of kind of are about the same height and weight
9:15
Speaker 2: and symptoms, and so we give them all the same
9:18
Speaker 2: medication at the same dose. And it works for one great,
9:23
Speaker 2: it works kind of for another one, it totally doesn't
9:26
Speaker 2: work for two, and who knows about the last one.
9:30
Speaker 2: But I mean it is I think people don't realize
9:34
Speaker 2: how much prescribing medication, prescribing nutrition, prescribing education, sorry exercise,
9:43
Speaker 2: even prescribing education.
9:45
Speaker 1: But prescribing all of these things is in many ways.
9:50
Speaker 2: High level guessing, you know, because it depends on how
9:54
Speaker 2: much you know about the individual. But I know if
9:57
Speaker 2: I book in with a GP today, and this is
9:59
Speaker 2: not a refle election on the ethics or morality of
10:02
Speaker 2: any GPS, but more a reflection.
10:04
Speaker 1: Of the busyness and the demand and the system.
10:06
Speaker 2: But if I book in and I go and see
10:08
Speaker 2: a GP who's never met me, he or she will
10:11
Speaker 2: ask me a bunch of questions. They'll quickly fill out
10:14
Speaker 2: some shit while I'm sitting with them. They probably won't
10:17
Speaker 2: look at me much because they're filling out so much stuff.
10:19
Speaker 2: And I'll go, I've got high blood pressure. I think
10:21
Speaker 2: they'll check my blood pressure, go yep. Then I'll go
10:25
Speaker 2: I'm a bit short of breath and I've got all
10:26
Speaker 2: this and then they'll prescribe something and I'll be in
10:29
Speaker 2: and out in about twelve to fifteen minutes. And then
10:32
Speaker 2: that medication could be a ten out of ten for me,
10:35
Speaker 2: it could be a two out of ten for me,
10:37
Speaker 2: or it could be a five. And so there's this
10:41
Speaker 2: the way that our individual physiology interacts with all of
10:44
Speaker 2: these different things that we do too or for our body.
10:49
Speaker 2: But that's you know, that's not really spoken about a
10:53
Speaker 2: lot in mainstream medicine. And even you know, like even
10:57
Speaker 2: the idea of I'll shut up.
10:59
Speaker 3: Go on, I don't know, I agree.
11:01
Speaker 2: I was even going to say with things like group training,
11:04
Speaker 2: like I love group training, but when you've got thirty
11:06
Speaker 2: people doing basically the same workout in the same room
11:09
Speaker 2: on the same equipment, there's going to be various levels
11:12
Speaker 2: or varying levels of benefit, and of course the other variabilities.
11:15
Speaker 2: People can manipulate their own intensity within that set structure.
11:20
Speaker 1: But again, you know, that's why I.
11:22
Speaker 2: Guess part of what you do, even what Tiff does,
11:25
Speaker 2: what I do, is trying to teach people to understand
11:29
Speaker 2: how they work individually, and you know, like like what
11:35
Speaker 2: does your body tell you when you sleep this way,
11:37
Speaker 2: or when you move that way, or when you eat
11:39
Speaker 2: that way, or you drink that or you don't drink that,
11:42
Speaker 2: or you know what happens when you have booze? What
11:44
Speaker 2: happens when you don't have booze? Because our body is
11:47
Speaker 2: trying to teach us, I guess, and I've.
11:50
Speaker 3: Got some fun little statistics on that. Like, probably the
11:53
Speaker 3: most widely prescribed medication for diabetes is met forman, which
11:57
Speaker 3: is a great jug for doing. What it does is
12:00
Speaker 3: it is effective in sixty percent of people. That's a
12:03
Speaker 3: really big percentage of people that don't get a big
12:05
Speaker 3: improvement in their blood sugar levels. But it also says
12:07
Speaker 3: there's a lot more to it. The same thing. You
12:09
Speaker 3: can literally strap people to a bed and inject them
12:12
Speaker 3: with blood pressure medication and still one in eight people
12:16
Speaker 3: will not change their blood pressure. This is where it's
12:20
Speaker 3: not even a matter of do I take the drug
12:21
Speaker 3: or not. People's bodies just respond. Why we have blood pressure.
12:25
Speaker 3: For example, one person, it could be their nervous system
12:28
Speaker 3: that's just on and driving a sympathetic response throughout their body.
12:32
Speaker 3: Another person, we know there's individuals with actually skinnier archrees
12:37
Speaker 3: and so the pressure in those arteries is higher and
12:40
Speaker 3: that naturally creates a blood pressure, whereas somebody else who
12:43
Speaker 3: gets forgotten altogether the way that their arteries are, they
12:47
Speaker 3: get low blood pressure and they go great, you're fantastic.
12:50
Speaker 3: As I know, this is diabolical because this can be
12:54
Speaker 3: really bad at the other end as well, And so
12:56
Speaker 3: we forget about the range first and then we look
13:01
Speaker 3: at There was a really great study looking at at
13:04
Speaker 3: systematic review in two twenty nineteen looking at the effectiveness
13:08
Speaker 3: of hit training and it's it was thought to be
13:10
Speaker 3: the panacea. Yeah, we're going to fix everything with hit training.
13:15
Speaker 3: Thirty thirty three percent are likely to get a result,
13:18
Speaker 3: thirty four percent are uncertain to get a result, and
13:23
Speaker 3: the difference thirty three percent are unlikely to get a
13:27
Speaker 3: result with it. So it's literally a third or third
13:29
Speaker 3: or third for uh. You look at a cycle class
13:33
Speaker 3: and you know who's going to get the benefit. We
13:35
Speaker 3: don't know. Everyone feels exhausted and feels like rewarded afterwards.
13:39
Speaker 3: But if if you're doing it in the morning, it
13:42
Speaker 3: could be that your body doesn't tolerate stress that well
13:44
Speaker 3: in the morning and it actually creates a greater stress
13:46
Speaker 3: response for the rest of the day, you're completely exhausted
13:48
Speaker 3: by lunchtime and you don't recover. I've had c C
13:52
Speaker 3: Suite people that I've taken through a bit of a
13:54
Speaker 3: program stop training in the morning and get four hours
13:57
Speaker 3: of productivity back in their day because they're not exhausted
14:00
Speaker 3: from their training. They train in the afternoon and they
14:02
Speaker 3: get two to three times the benefit. So that level
14:05
Speaker 3: of nuance, the timing, the type of training that still
14:08
Speaker 3: applies to foods, and the timing of foods, when you
14:10
Speaker 3: should eat your foods, when your biggest meal should be,
14:12
Speaker 3: the types of nutrients that you're more likely to need
14:14
Speaker 3: right through to you know, we had one individual with
14:19
Speaker 3: a very complex case of like nosebleeds, headaches, dizziness, just NonStop,
14:26
Speaker 3: and it turned out that the profile actually said you
14:28
Speaker 3: should not live it altitude. You need to move down
14:31
Speaker 3: to the bottom of the mountain. And she'd been doing
14:34
Speaker 3: everything for ten years, seeing every specialist that she gets there,
14:37
Speaker 3: and literally she had to remove kale and moved to
14:40
Speaker 3: the bottom of the mountain and all of her symptoms
14:43
Speaker 3: resolved in two weeks.
14:45
Speaker 1: It was just fucking amazing.
14:47
Speaker 3: And no one's talking about that stuff. But we all
14:49
Speaker 3: know that we go to an environment. Oh yeah, I
14:51
Speaker 3: just feel so good in this place. We will test
14:55
Speaker 3: things out, Like someone with rheumatoid arthritis lived in a
14:59
Speaker 3: humid environment, sent them to a dry, warm environment for
15:04
Speaker 3: their holiday, and then gave them some foods that also
15:07
Speaker 3: support with the same sort of process to amplify it.
15:11
Speaker 3: Symptoms went away, a rumored to arthritis went home. Yeah,
15:14
Speaker 3: the symptoms came back. And so this is when we
15:16
Speaker 3: look at disease. We forget, We're forgotten completely about who's
15:21
Speaker 3: the person with the disease. Because somebody who needs a
15:23
Speaker 3: dry environment that treats them, a person who needs a
15:27
Speaker 3: human environment that's going to treat them, a person that
15:29
Speaker 3: needs three meals per day that's going to treat them.
15:31
Speaker 3: But if they're and so this is where you know,
15:34
Speaker 3: Hippocrates said this two and a half thousand years ago,
15:37
Speaker 3: and lots of people have said it in different ways.
15:39
Speaker 3: There is no such thing as disease. There's a person
15:42
Speaker 3: with a disease and if you understand the person, and
15:46
Speaker 3: this you know, comes into the nearer divergence here as well.
15:50
Speaker 3: If you put a child into an environment that makes
15:53
Speaker 3: them happy, they don't have neurodivergent symptoms anymore. In some
15:56
Speaker 3: instances they behave really well, they focus really well, but
15:59
Speaker 3: you put them into an environment that doesn't match them,
16:01
Speaker 3: and their symptoms erupt, and so understand the person then
16:06
Speaker 3: we can start to understand the disease process. But it's
16:09
Speaker 3: it's been I mean, it's been the best journey for
16:11
Speaker 3: the last ten years. And I could talk about it
16:13
Speaker 3: for hours, but I'll stop there for the moment.
16:16
Speaker 2: Truly, truly, your stuff fascinates me. And I just think,
16:20
Speaker 2: and you know, and Tiff knows, like I don't. I
16:23
Speaker 2: don't say stuff I don't mean, but I just think
16:25
Speaker 2: it's the future. I think it's the way. Is this,
16:27
Speaker 2: you know, like personalized medicine, personalized exercise programming on a
16:31
Speaker 2: high level, personalized nutrition of course, of course, because it
16:35
Speaker 2: just like why wouldn't it, like we people instinctually or
16:40
Speaker 2: instinctively I should say no that what works for me
16:43
Speaker 2: might not work for you. You know, like someone has a
16:47
Speaker 2: handful of almonds, it's a healthy snack.
16:49
Speaker 1: Someone else has.
16:50
Speaker 2: One armand and they die because they have an anaphylactic
16:52
Speaker 2: reaction or something.
16:54
Speaker 3: But it was good for their heart, you know, Yeah,
16:57
Speaker 3: it was going to be good for their heart.
17:00
Speaker 2: Here's my little anecdote. So I was in Queensland on
17:03
Speaker 2: the weekend Thursday to Saturday night, and I generally only
17:08
Speaker 2: eat breakfast and dinner, and I may have a snack
17:10
Speaker 2: through the day, but usually like a tub of yogurt
17:14
Speaker 2: or forty of the aforementioned almonds without the reaction. But
17:19
Speaker 2: you know, either nothing through the day between kind of
17:22
Speaker 2: eight and seven or a small snack but definitely not
17:24
Speaker 2: a meal.
17:25
Speaker 1: But anyway, so Saturday, I was in Surface and Surfers.
17:32
Speaker 2: Paradise and I was just I ate an early breakfast
17:35
Speaker 2: but not big and it was about three two o'clock
17:39
Speaker 2: and I had to present from four to five thirty,
17:42
Speaker 2: so I had to talk for an hour and a half.
17:43
Speaker 2: Then I had to go to the airport. Then I
17:44
Speaker 2: did it, and I thought, well, it's going to be Firstly,
17:48
Speaker 2: I don't know what i'll be able to get at
17:49
Speaker 2: the airport. I don't know what time that'll be, and
17:52
Speaker 2: I was mildly peckish. I thought, you know, i'll go
17:55
Speaker 2: and i'll get myself a coffee at seven to eleven,
17:58
Speaker 2: which I know is not the high watermark for but
18:00
Speaker 2: fuck it, that's what I did, and while I was
18:02
Speaker 2: in there, I went, I might grab one of these.
18:06
Speaker 2: In hindsight, bad decision. Chicken wraps. I'm like, it's just
18:11
Speaker 2: a chicken wrap, like chicken and salad. Can't be bad.
18:16
Speaker 2: I didn't read the box anyway, got out, had a bite,
18:18
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, I don't know. I don't know anyway,
18:21
Speaker 2: So I ate this wrap. It was only like maybe
18:23
Speaker 2: four hundred and fifty calories or something, but I don't
18:26
Speaker 2: know what the fuck was in that, but it made
18:29
Speaker 2: me feel sick until last night, like I just there
18:33
Speaker 2: was something where it was margarine, whether it was I
18:36
Speaker 2: don't know what it was.
18:38
Speaker 1: And it's very unlike me not.
18:40
Speaker 2: To be particular, but I just thought, I'm going to
18:42
Speaker 2: eat this thing because I'm not going to eat much
18:43
Speaker 2: for the rest of the day.
18:45
Speaker 1: And so that was Saturday.
18:46
Speaker 2: Afternoon and yesterday was Tuesday, and it took me until
18:52
Speaker 2: about lunchtime Tuesday before whatever that was was.
18:56
Speaker 1: Kind of out of my system.
18:57
Speaker 2: That sounds disgusting, but I could fear all like my
19:01
Speaker 2: body wasn't the same. It was like my body, my
19:04
Speaker 2: body was just saying to me, what the fuck did
19:06
Speaker 2: you do? Like, what was that because I don't eat
19:09
Speaker 2: things like that generally. But it's amazing when you get
19:12
Speaker 2: out of because I know exactly what works for my
19:16
Speaker 2: body with everything, with food, with sleep, with supplements, with rest,
19:20
Speaker 2: with recovery, with socialization, with time alone, with time with people,
19:25
Speaker 2: with stress, with calm, with and then I just chuck this.
19:29
Speaker 2: And you wouldn't think one little thing could have such
19:32
Speaker 2: an impact, but it.
19:33
Speaker 3: Can absolutely And it's just even a lot of people
19:38
Speaker 3: walk around in their life with a baseline level of earth.
19:42
Speaker 3: Most of the time, they don't realize how good they
19:45
Speaker 3: can feel like. That's what's and we aren't taught at
19:48
Speaker 3: all to investigate the feelings that we're getting as children. Oh,
19:53
Speaker 3: how does it feel when you eat that? How does
19:55
Speaker 3: it feel when you give that? How does it feel
19:57
Speaker 3: when you connect with your mum that way? You know,
19:58
Speaker 3: we never ask those questions. People don't get any kind
20:01
Speaker 3: of barometer about that, and then you end up sort
20:06
Speaker 3: of masking what life could feel like, or masking the
20:09
Speaker 3: amount of pain in your body with caffeine and busyness
20:12
Speaker 3: and alcohol and whatever it may be. You know the
20:16
Speaker 3: number of people that I know that go home and
20:18
Speaker 3: just have a glass of wine to take the edge
20:20
Speaker 3: off it as opposed to you know, what is actually
20:22
Speaker 3: creating the edge, you know, And even that question, I
20:25
Speaker 3: just prefer to wake up a little bit more sluggish
20:27
Speaker 3: and I'll just have another coffee and then I'll be fine.
20:31
Speaker 3: It's we are supported by our society to live like that, caffeinated,
20:39
Speaker 3: masking the real signals that are coming from our system.
20:43
Speaker 3: The effort to be more mindful is great. But even still,
20:45
Speaker 3: and this is probably what the most exciting stuff about
20:48
Speaker 3: the work that we do is when you get a symptom,
20:52
Speaker 3: we can now say, well, this is why that symptom
20:56
Speaker 3: is there. You know, if Tiff goes, oh, I've got
20:58
Speaker 3: a bit of a headache or whatever it might be,
21:00
Speaker 3: I could say, well, these are the three things that
21:02
Speaker 3: are going to be most relevant for tif based off
21:04
Speaker 3: what we know about her body as far as headaches
21:06
Speaker 3: are concerned. My headaches for a body like Tip, a
21:08
Speaker 3: lot of it's actually muscle tension and stretching appropriately actually
21:12
Speaker 3: makes a big difference. But for somebody else those headaches
21:15
Speaker 3: is because they've eaten their meat too quickly and it's
21:18
Speaker 3: digesting poorly, and that's creating a headache. That's the most
21:21
Speaker 3: likely reason for example. So it's not just identifying the symptom,
21:27
Speaker 3: but then actually being able to navigate to cause. And
21:29
Speaker 3: that's what the data and the AI actually allows us
21:32
Speaker 3: to do now, is to say I'm feeling like this.
21:34
Speaker 3: We actually had an individual she was using the app.
21:37
Speaker 3: She had burning tongue or something like that. I'm not
21:40
Speaker 3: too familiar with it, went to the doctor and you
21:43
Speaker 3: know rightly, so six minute consultation got some nonstroileni in
21:46
Speaker 3: flams happy days. She then went home and asked her
21:50
Speaker 3: digital twin essentially and said, like, I've got burning mouth
21:53
Speaker 3: into well for your body, it's likely related to your
21:56
Speaker 3: mental stress, So do this breathing exercise, avoid these three
22:00
Speaker 3: foods or whatever it might be. Three days it was resolved.
22:03
Speaker 3: It was really fascinating to see if you understand cause
22:06
Speaker 3: and you make the right treatment, then all of these
22:09
Speaker 3: alternative things actually become very very powerful when they're precise.
22:13
Speaker 3: So yeah, this is definitely the thing that we're trying
22:17
Speaker 3: to do is raise everybody's knowledge about well, what do
22:20
Speaker 3: I actually need to do and then assess how does
22:22
Speaker 3: my body feel when I do that? Because that's going
22:24
Speaker 3: to be a more true measure.
22:27
Speaker 2: I think like reconnecting with our body. I could be wrong,
22:31
Speaker 2: but my guess is that our ancestors were way more
22:37
Speaker 2: integrated with their biology than we are, you know, way
22:41
Speaker 2: more aware, way more instinctive and intuitive because I guess
22:45
Speaker 2: they didn't have the access to the stuff that we have.
22:48
Speaker 2: You know, we can push the dopamine button whenever we want,
22:51
Speaker 2: so to speak, but they couldn't do that.
22:53
Speaker 3: You know, It's interesting because they only live till thirty,
22:57
Speaker 3: So you can do a whole lot of bad stuff
22:58
Speaker 3: to your body over thirty years to not really feel it.
23:01
Speaker 2: Well, that's because they got a tooth fucking infection and
23:04
Speaker 2: they died. Yeah, that's because there was no antibiotics.
23:08
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, up until that though were brand new. I
23:12
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you. I want to circle back to
23:14
Speaker 1: where you were.
23:14
Speaker 2: You were talking about how you know, some people run,
23:17
Speaker 2: they don't get fitter. Some people if weights, they don't
23:20
Speaker 2: get stronger. Explain to me how twenty percent of people
23:24
Speaker 2: can lift weights and not get stronger or not build muscle.
23:28
Speaker 3: So, muscle growth requires activation of your muscle protein synthetic pathways.
23:36
Speaker 3: So and if everyone's fill without the m tour pathways
23:38
Speaker 3: and various things like that that requires a stimulus. It
23:42
Speaker 3: also requires appropriate nutrition, it also requires good sleep, and
23:49
Speaker 3: it also requires a reduction in stress levels, because if
23:55
Speaker 3: you're stressed all day long, you'll just be catabolizing muscle.
23:59
Speaker 3: So it's this is one of the issues with randomized
24:02
Speaker 3: control trials is I want to test this one thing,
24:05
Speaker 3: and yes, I'll try and control for all of these
24:07
Speaker 3: other things. But there's there's a real development and evolution
24:11
Speaker 3: that's coming to the way that we're going to interpret
24:13
Speaker 3: research like that. But I won't get into that too
24:14
Speaker 3: much unless we unless we do. But so let's say
24:18
Speaker 3: that you've got a person and they're a night owl, okay,
24:21
Speaker 3: and so night owls are people that not that they
24:24
Speaker 3: have to wake up late. But if you stress them
24:27
Speaker 3: in the morning, if you give them some sort of
24:28
Speaker 3: stress loud pitch, noises, lots of mental activity, physical intensity.
24:33
Speaker 3: If you give them a stress in the morning, their
24:36
Speaker 3: body goes WTF and it says, my village must be
24:40
Speaker 3: burning down. I need to be on high alert now.
24:43
Speaker 3: And what we see if you put an individual through
24:49
Speaker 3: high intensity training, their cortisole levels will go up and
24:53
Speaker 3: they'll stay up for longer. Now, cortisole is one of
24:56
Speaker 3: those chemicals that actually contributes to muscle loss. You go
25:00
Speaker 3: and find muscle, you break it down, and you turn
25:03
Speaker 3: it into fuel so that you can keep going because
25:05
Speaker 3: your body goes I'm in stress. I've just got to
25:07
Speaker 3: keep going right now. I'm not going to worry about
25:08
Speaker 3: anything else. I'm just going to survive. Whereas, if you
25:11
Speaker 3: take an early bird and you get them to do
25:13
Speaker 3: that same training first thing in the morning, their cortisole
25:15
Speaker 3: levels go up and then they return to normal within
25:18
Speaker 3: fifteen minutes. So what you've got is two people doing
25:21
Speaker 3: the same training. They've been given the stimulus, but then
25:26
Speaker 3: one person's been exposed to so much more stress hormone
25:29
Speaker 3: as a result of that training that they don't get
25:32
Speaker 3: to a crue muscle for that period of time. They
25:35
Speaker 3: don't get the synthetic response, or at least it's been
25:37
Speaker 3: negated somewhat by cortisol. So and then it may disrupt sleep.
25:43
Speaker 3: It may reduce their sleep quality because their rhythms now
25:45
Speaker 3: out and their cortisol's fluxing all over the place. It
25:48
Speaker 3: could disregulate some of their appetite as well. It might
25:52
Speaker 3: reduce some of their activity later on in the day,
25:54
Speaker 3: because they're now a lot more tired and wiped out
25:57
Speaker 3: because they did that training. So there's a whole lot
25:59
Speaker 3: of different factors that can come into this that then
26:03
Speaker 3: mean that you don't get a net growth of muscle
26:06
Speaker 3: over time. But obviously it's multi factorial. But then for
26:09
Speaker 3: the early bird, you know, it's like geez, I feel
26:12
Speaker 3: so great after that, and they eat well, they sleep well,
26:15
Speaker 3: you know, the recovery is better. So you know, it's
26:17
Speaker 3: not just the training, obviously, it's all of the systemic
26:21
Speaker 3: effects that happen after that training and when that training occurred.
26:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so interesting.
26:26
Speaker 2: I've the amount of the amount of people that I've
26:29
Speaker 2: seen over the years that I've worked with that are
26:32
Speaker 2: perplexed by why they're not building muscle, And apart from
26:37
Speaker 2: all the things you spoke about, I'm like, well, like
26:41
Speaker 2: you're probably expending two and a half thousand calories a
26:44
Speaker 2: day and consuming twenty four hundred, so just that you know,
26:50
Speaker 2: you can't build muscle because there's no petrol in the tank,
26:53
Speaker 2: you know, there's and then as you said, you throw cortisol,
26:57
Speaker 2: which is catabolic into the mix, you know, and all that,
27:01
Speaker 2: then people start to get stressed around what's not working.
27:05
Speaker 2: They kind of throw fuel on the non muscle building fire. Yeah,
27:11
Speaker 2: that's that's just such an interesting thing because trying to
27:15
Speaker 2: get especially young men and teenage boys and women as well,
27:20
Speaker 2: But it seems to me to be more blokes and
27:23
Speaker 2: boys to understand that you're not building muscle in the gym.
27:27
Speaker 2: You're just creating a stimulus that might lead to that
27:30
Speaker 2: if the other things are okay, you know, if you
27:34
Speaker 2: get the rest, if you get if you get the recovery,
27:37
Speaker 2: if you get the nutrition, if you harmonially are in
27:40
Speaker 2: a good place. Yeah, just trying to because all you're
27:42
Speaker 2: trying to do in the gym is to stimulate your
27:44
Speaker 2: body to respond a certain way.
27:46
Speaker 1: Which may or may not depending on the other variables.
27:49
Speaker 3: That's right. Yeah, and yes, it's just when you start
27:53
Speaker 3: thinking about, like, we do too much of our research
27:56
Speaker 3: in like one intervention in isolation, and I know that's
27:59
Speaker 3: the scientific method of you know, if we do this
28:02
Speaker 3: one thing to one thousand people, what happens. And this
28:05
Speaker 3: is a bit of a trap actually for it impedes
28:09
Speaker 3: our ability to be personalized because when you say, oh,
28:13
Speaker 3: there's a study with a thousand people and on average
28:18
Speaker 3: and this was actually this is done in the nine nineties.
28:20
Speaker 3: This is what's so crazy about this is this incredible
28:23
Speaker 3: guy took five hundred individuals from about one hundred and
28:28
Speaker 3: thirty different families and he made them do aerobic training,
28:33
Speaker 3: so on the bike, forty five minutes being supervised on
28:36
Speaker 3: the bike. And what they found is, firstly, your genetics
28:39
Speaker 3: determine your baseline VO two, like how fit you are
28:42
Speaker 3: is very much based on your VO two on your genetics.
28:47
Speaker 3: And secondly is that there were the super responders. In
28:50
Speaker 3: every study, there's a super responder, the twenty percent of
28:53
Speaker 3: people that just skyrocket their results, and then there's the
28:56
Speaker 3: other twenty percent that get a negative result. He showed
28:59
Speaker 3: that even people with good training or no training didn't matter.
29:02
Speaker 3: There were specific families where they would get no response
29:06
Speaker 3: or a negative response from three times a week, forty
29:08
Speaker 3: five minutes of cycle training at seventy five percent of
29:11
Speaker 3: their max. But it says the study, if you look
29:14
Speaker 3: at you know, if you look at this amongst other studies,
29:16
Speaker 3: you'd say, on average, everybody improves by this much. And
29:21
Speaker 3: it's immediately inaccurate for most people, because some people improved
29:25
Speaker 3: twelve hundred. The average was four hundred and some are
29:27
Speaker 3: negative five. And that has been repeated that study so
29:31
Speaker 3: many times. And then when people try and say, oh,
29:35
Speaker 3: non responders to exercise don't actually exist, they're just not
29:38
Speaker 3: training hard enough, what they try and do is they
29:41
Speaker 3: just bump up the volume so that everyone's doing five
29:45
Speaker 3: hours of really intense exercise per week. And what they
29:48
Speaker 3: find is that the people that are superresponders don't actually
29:51
Speaker 3: respond that much more. They get the same result that
29:53
Speaker 3: they got it two and a half hours. And the
29:56
Speaker 3: people that didn't respond to two and a half hours
29:58
Speaker 3: of this really intense exercise, they get a three percent
30:02
Speaker 3: improvement in their fitness and they go, great, see there
30:05
Speaker 3: that guy, whereas another person's getting a fifty percent improvement
30:09
Speaker 3: in their fitness. So all you've got to say to
30:11
Speaker 3: the population now of Australia is, hey, everybody can get
30:14
Speaker 3: a result, and you can get a three percent improvement
30:16
Speaker 3: if you do five hours at seventy five percent per week.
30:21
Speaker 3: You know, we can't even get Australia off the couch
30:24
Speaker 3: for the most part, or definitely and there's other countries
30:26
Speaker 3: like this too, to say, oh no, you're going to
30:28
Speaker 3: get virtually no response after five hours of training. It's
30:32
Speaker 3: not about non response, it's about people are different. And
30:35
Speaker 3: there was another great study just looking at if you
30:38
Speaker 3: give a power athlete power training, they get more powerful
30:43
Speaker 3: and they get more aerobically fit. If you give endurance
30:46
Speaker 3: genes endurance training, they get more aerobically fit, more endurance,
30:52
Speaker 3: and they get more powerful. But if you switch the
30:54
Speaker 3: modality and make the think about this. You take a
30:57
Speaker 3: high jumper and you make them train the world's strongest man,
31:01
Speaker 3: what's going to happen to that high jump? They're going
31:02
Speaker 3: to break in half because they're this delicate little string
31:05
Speaker 3: bean that's designed for jump really high heights. They aren't
31:09
Speaker 3: designed for that kind of strength. But if you train
31:12
Speaker 3: them in their strength, in their strength, which is endurance,
31:15
Speaker 3: I guess you know high jumpers are quite powerful, but
31:18
Speaker 3: let's talk ultra marathon runners or something like that. You see,
31:22
Speaker 3: when you align the training with the person, you get
31:25
Speaker 3: the response. And that's the same thing with food. Some
31:29
Speaker 3: people metabolically need three meals per day and a light dinner.
31:32
Speaker 3: You align the fuel intake for that person based off
31:36
Speaker 3: their digestive function, and their body starts getting better and
31:40
Speaker 3: that might resolve. I've seen sleep, app noir, diabetes, weight problems,
31:45
Speaker 3: fluid retention, just by having the right timing of meals.
31:48
Speaker 3: But you take another person, they need six meals per day,
31:52
Speaker 3: like Tip is a five to six meals per day.
31:54
Speaker 3: Give her a snack or she starts hitting screens, you know,
31:57
Speaker 3: maybe biting chairs. It might be some people need the
32:02
Speaker 3: regular consumption and if you provide that, their mood improves
32:06
Speaker 3: and their metabolism improves. But that's same six meal per
32:09
Speaker 3: day on the three mil a day person makes them
32:11
Speaker 3: more sluggish and hold more weight. So if you give
32:13
Speaker 3: the body what it needs, what it's designed to do,
32:16
Speaker 3: align the treatment with the person, that's when you see
32:18
Speaker 3: the diseases start to improve. And that's that's what we
32:21
Speaker 3: don't do. We're working symptom symptoms in rather than person out,
32:26
Speaker 3: and that's what needs to change.
32:29
Speaker 2: It's so interesting that thing where in research, of course,
32:32
Speaker 2: and naturally it has to operate. That why because we
32:34
Speaker 2: can't have twenty variables otherwise we don't know what's working
32:37
Speaker 2: and not working. But I always say tell people that
32:42
Speaker 2: you know, it's like the human systems, it's integrated, like
32:46
Speaker 2: it's psychology, it's emotion, it's physiology. It's sociology, it's spirituality
32:51
Speaker 2: maybe depending on like, it's this integration of all of
32:55
Speaker 2: these things. That's not a standalone single thing. And you know,
32:59
Speaker 2: you have a thought and depending on the thought, well,
33:01
Speaker 2: there's a physiological consequence to that thought.
33:04
Speaker 1: There's you know, you.
33:07
Speaker 2: Catch a ball, there's a psychological consequence to catching that ball.
33:11
Speaker 2: You lie on the ground with tiflies on the ground
33:14
Speaker 2: with our animals, and there's an emotional and a psychological
33:17
Speaker 2: benefit to doing that physical thing. Right, all of these
33:21
Speaker 2: things are intertwined and interconnected, and trying to understand that,
33:26
Speaker 2: you know, for some people think about this like one
33:29
Speaker 2: person gives you a hug, and it puts your body
33:31
Speaker 2: in a great state. Another person gives you a hug
33:34
Speaker 2: puts your body in a stress state. It's the same thing,
33:38
Speaker 2: but from a different person. And it's probably not even
33:42
Speaker 2: so much about that body touching my body as much
33:45
Speaker 2: as it is how I feel about that fucking body
33:48
Speaker 2: touching my body. So in other words, I'm actually creating
33:52
Speaker 2: this physiological negativity as my interpretation of old mate hugging me,
33:58
Speaker 2: who I don't want to hug me?
34:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, And and.
34:03
Speaker 3: What I'm going to say to that is, this is
34:05
Speaker 3: where the future of it's going, well, not the future,
34:07
Speaker 3: this is where it's at right now. It's just and
34:10
Speaker 3: truly with the augmented reality goggles that are coming out everywhere,
34:15
Speaker 3: like the glasses that you can wear, it is going
34:17
Speaker 3: to completely change the game. And this has been part
34:19
Speaker 3: of our roadmap for the last ten years long as
34:21
Speaker 3: I've known the organization. Actually we're at the point now
34:24
Speaker 3: where it is exactly about all of those things, and
34:28
Speaker 3: AI allows us to actually understand all of those things
34:31
Speaker 3: in real time about the person. So research is going
34:34
Speaker 3: to move from a randomized control trial meta analyses model,
34:37
Speaker 3: which is the meta analyses is the average of the averages,
34:40
Speaker 3: which is even less specific for the individual. It is like,
34:44
Speaker 3: oh no, on average, this works some of the time,
34:47
Speaker 3: but not it doesn't anyway, won't get it that The
34:49
Speaker 3: future is personalized algorithms, which is, this person has woken
34:54
Speaker 3: up at this time, They've had this particular amount of work,
34:57
Speaker 3: this type of work in the morning, and that's created
35:00
Speaker 3: this heart rate variability for them. And then they had
35:02
Speaker 3: a cup of tea, and that cup of tea seemed
35:04
Speaker 3: to normalize the heart rate variability. Then they had to
35:06
Speaker 3: hang out with John, and John seemed to normalize their
35:09
Speaker 3: heart rate variability and help them into a recovery phase.
35:11
Speaker 3: Then they had a call from their partner and their
35:14
Speaker 3: heart rate variability went wild, and their skin conductance went
35:17
Speaker 3: all over the place, and then their fatigue levels, their
35:20
Speaker 3: productivity went down, and then they had a bit of
35:22
Speaker 3: food here or whatever. It might be, so much so
35:24
Speaker 3: that the way health will be really in the next
35:29
Speaker 3: five years, definitely the next ten years. It's all about
35:32
Speaker 3: standardization of augmented reality goggles. You'll be walking down the
35:37
Speaker 3: street it'll say, oh, harps mate, I know that you're
35:41
Speaker 3: trying to do your best to recover. You've been in
35:43
Speaker 3: a slightly sympathetic state, or your heart rate's been up
35:46
Speaker 3: a little bit for the last hour. You've got three
35:49
Speaker 3: meetings for the rest of the day coming up. I've
35:52
Speaker 3: ordered a green tea on the way to that. It's
35:55
Speaker 3: going to be ready for you to pick up for
35:57
Speaker 3: you to consume. But also listen to this music as well,
36:00
Speaker 3: because we need you to return back to this baseline
36:02
Speaker 3: to catch some rest so that you can go back
36:05
Speaker 3: into that anabolic state. And oh, you know what, we
36:09
Speaker 3: listened to that song at that time it didn't work,
36:10
Speaker 3: try this song instead, and then it auto populates the
36:13
Speaker 3: next song that then does get you into the right state,
36:15
Speaker 3: whatever it might be. Like, this is where we'll well,
36:19
Speaker 3: we'll start to really see it in real life. What
36:22
Speaker 3: are the various cues of what brings us into our
36:25
Speaker 3: best health, down to the vegetable, down to the way
36:29
Speaker 3: that we move our body. It's going to be a
36:30
Speaker 3: completely different world when it comes to health. The health
36:34
Speaker 3: without Thinking is the tagline, but the idea of it
36:37
Speaker 3: is that once you've been exposed to these things, once
36:41
Speaker 3: you go, oh, the green tea did really help? Then
36:43
Speaker 3: how was I feeling at that time? I was feeling
36:45
Speaker 3: a little bit off? That's weird, Okay, have that granted.
36:47
Speaker 3: What happens over multiple exposures to that is you start
36:50
Speaker 3: actually getting real cues for oh yeah, actually no, I
36:54
Speaker 3: beat my alarm to it. I knew it was going
36:55
Speaker 3: to tell me my heart rate was a bit off
36:57
Speaker 3: because I felt it before it came up, because the
36:59
Speaker 3: last three time I felt like this, and then I
37:01
Speaker 3: got the alarm on my watch or the alarm on
37:02
Speaker 3: my goggles, whatever it might be. So it actually allows
37:05
Speaker 3: us to use AI to re educate our very specific cues,
37:09
Speaker 3: but then it goes so much further, I think, than
37:12
Speaker 3: what we could do in the past, because we have
37:16
Speaker 3: this incredible understanding of the differences between individuals, of how
37:19
Speaker 3: people can find their purpose and do all of these
37:21
Speaker 3: incredible cognitive exercises in improving the health and well being.
37:24
Speaker 3: So it'll include all of that. So it is a
37:28
Speaker 3: truly exciting time to be alive. There's no doubt about it.
37:32
Speaker 1: It is.
37:33
Speaker 2: It is Sometimes I listen to you and I just
37:35
Speaker 2: get engrossed and I don't even have a question. I'm like, yeah,
37:38
Speaker 2: go on, keep talking. But the other day I did
37:41
Speaker 2: a podcast TIF did you do that one with me?
37:45
Speaker 2: Where we're talking about the impact of work, like our
37:47
Speaker 2: relationship with.
37:48
Speaker 1: Work or is that just me?
37:50
Speaker 3: Yeah?
37:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're talking about even down cam to like I
37:55
Speaker 2: talk to people about among many other things, but we
37:59
Speaker 2: talk about the the impact.
38:00
Speaker 1: Of work on their health.
38:03
Speaker 2: So where they work, culture environment, what they wear to work,
38:07
Speaker 2: travel time, the physical office or the physical space that
38:12
Speaker 2: they work in, and how that affects everything from their
38:15
Speaker 2: heart rate to their recovery, to their cognition to their
38:18
Speaker 2: nervous system. To know how they feel in that space
38:22
Speaker 2: and one of the best things I ever did was
38:27
Speaker 2: I built this office that I love where I'm just
38:31
Speaker 2: looking at all these trees and my office is nice
38:34
Speaker 2: and comfy, and when I come in to hear I
38:38
Speaker 2: feel more creative and more focused and more calm than
38:43
Speaker 2: any other room in the house, in fact, any other
38:46
Speaker 2: I don't think you could put me in a workspace
38:48
Speaker 2: where I would feel better.
38:49
Speaker 1: Than the space that I'm in right now.
38:51
Speaker 2: Yes, And it's like I consciously did that because the
38:55
Speaker 2: room that I'm in I didn't have it the way
38:57
Speaker 2: it's set up, and it was okay, and then I
39:00
Speaker 2: ended up just creating, creating something that for me works perfectly.
39:06
Speaker 2: And Yeah, when you think about, for example, among many
39:11
Speaker 2: other things, how long you spend at like for us,
39:15
Speaker 2: like Tiff, for you or me, how long I spend
39:17
Speaker 2: at a computer or at this desk or on you know,
39:20
Speaker 2: in zoom calls, or on podcasts or reading fucking papers
39:24
Speaker 2: or writing papers or answering emails, It's like, well, if
39:28
Speaker 2: you're going to spend a lot of time in that space,
39:31
Speaker 2: in that position, you might want to make it a
39:34
Speaker 2: really nice space to be in because that's good for
39:37
Speaker 2: your body and your emotions. And your cognitive function, but
39:40
Speaker 2: also you know, just for your happiness level. And I
39:45
Speaker 2: don't think most of the people that I talk to
39:48
Speaker 2: they don't think about their work environment in terms of
39:51
Speaker 2: the relationship that it has or the impact that it
39:54
Speaker 2: has on their health.
39:57
Speaker 3: And I mean I've had I've got some really beautiful
39:59
Speaker 3: cases it, and the data is profound. There was a
40:03
Speaker 3: one example around weight change. For example, they looked at
40:06
Speaker 3: a population. This is a study done in two thousand
40:08
Speaker 3: and six. They looked at if you're in high job
40:11
Speaker 3: stress with low control over your job, so you don't
40:15
Speaker 3: feel like you're in charge and you're stressed in it.
40:18
Speaker 3: If you were if you had a BMI that was
40:20
Speaker 3: twenty seven or above, you would gain weight in that environment.
40:24
Speaker 3: If you had a BMI that was twenty two or below,
40:27
Speaker 3: you would lose weight in that environment. And this is
40:29
Speaker 3: because a bigger body naturally has a more anabolic free
40:34
Speaker 3: disposition to stress. So that is, I'm going to grow
40:37
Speaker 3: in stress, I'm going to get bigger in stress, whereas
40:40
Speaker 3: skinnier bodies they have a catabolic response to stress, and
40:43
Speaker 3: that is I'm going to waste away. And so this
40:46
Speaker 3: is where so where people started and this is just
40:50
Speaker 3: from work. This isn't the food that they're eating, this
40:52
Speaker 3: is the environment that I'm in at work. And then
40:54
Speaker 3: we had a really fascinating experience. We run a bunch
40:57
Speaker 3: of worldness programs and one that really sticks out in
41:00
Speaker 3: my mind. She was actually the BMI of twenty two
41:02
Speaker 3: or below and her we do a depression anxiety stress
41:06
Speaker 3: scale that's twenty one. It's a well validated tool for
41:08
Speaker 3: general population and mental.
41:10
Speaker 1: Health and in my research, oh good stuff.
41:14
Speaker 3: So the the what we saw is I saw the
41:18
Speaker 3: highest DASH scores ever I saw on this individual at
41:23
Speaker 3: the start of the program, so she was pretty much
41:26
Speaker 3: topping out both scales. The change that we made to her,
41:30
Speaker 3: we knew that her body, based on the way that
41:32
Speaker 3: she was built, she was highly responsive to lots of noise,
41:36
Speaker 3: lots of light, lots of people because her nervous system,
41:39
Speaker 3: her ascending reticular activating system, is much more awake, and
41:45
Speaker 3: whenever she gets any kind of neural input, any kind
41:48
Speaker 3: of sensory input, it goes to her amigdala, which is
41:51
Speaker 3: her sort of stress response center, and then for her
41:55
Speaker 3: it goes up to her brain, whereas other people it
41:58
Speaker 3: goes down into their system, and they get and they
42:00
Speaker 3: want to punch stuff for her, she processes all of
42:03
Speaker 3: her stress cognitively, and so she was in an open
42:07
Speaker 3: plan office with air conditioning, bright lights, lots of people
42:10
Speaker 3: talking all of the time, in a really active culture.
42:14
Speaker 3: We moved her just based on the basic recommendations in
42:18
Speaker 3: her environment. We moved her to a quiet room where
42:21
Speaker 3: she could control the lighting and the temperature and didn't
42:23
Speaker 3: have anyone around her. In three weeks, her dash scores
42:27
Speaker 3: went to zero. It was truly, my nervous system is
42:32
Speaker 3: completely overwhelmed. I cannot get out of my head and
42:35
Speaker 3: what is.
42:36
Speaker 1: Wrong with me?
42:36
Speaker 3: That was her story.
42:38
Speaker 1: Two.
42:39
Speaker 3: I am so calm, I am so clear in my mind,
42:44
Speaker 3: I feel so good, and I'm getting so much done.
42:46
Speaker 3: It had nothing to do with her food, nothing to
42:49
Speaker 3: do with her exercise. It was literally where she was
42:51
Speaker 3: sitting in the office. And this is no one talks
42:55
Speaker 3: about it. Everyone gets annoy lafe. Whenever I do a talk,
42:57
Speaker 3: I'll say, who hates air conditioning? Every time there's a
43:01
Speaker 3: third of the room that put their hand up saying
43:02
Speaker 3: I hate it, And how does it feel when you
43:04
Speaker 3: have air conditioning? It's like, ah, just agitated. It was like, great,
43:09
Speaker 3: who's had an interaction with John where he's been agitated?
43:12
Speaker 3: Your hands go up, you go great, did you ever
43:15
Speaker 3: think that it was the air conditioning? All you guys
43:16
Speaker 3: are thinking John's a terrible bloke. It just turns out
43:19
Speaker 3: the firmo stat was to play and these things we
43:22
Speaker 3: just we don't put together. We're not thinking of them
43:24
Speaker 3: as contributing to our health. But if you submit yourself
43:26
Speaker 3: to that experience, you go, I hate this job, I'm out,
43:30
Speaker 3: when in fact I hate this room is actually what
43:33
Speaker 3: you mean. The work is fine, the team is fine,
43:36
Speaker 3: but we have to create a narrative out of what
43:39
Speaker 3: we feel. And often that narrative is the thing in
43:43
Speaker 3: front of me. Work is the problem, when in fact
43:45
Speaker 3: it wasn't at all. So it's the idea of place
43:49
Speaker 3: is so fascinating.
43:51
Speaker 2: That is so interesting, dude, That is so interesting now
43:57
Speaker 2: other than you know, thy six and we're going to
44:00
Speaker 2: steer people there anyway. But people that are listening to
44:03
Speaker 2: this thinking there are so many variables, There are so
44:06
Speaker 2: many factors that are going to impact how I look, feel, function,
44:10
Speaker 2: experience life, do.
44:12
Speaker 1: Life, sleep, etc. Is there a way that.
44:15
Speaker 2: They can you know, just is it me going all right,
44:18
Speaker 2: is it me just paying more attention? Is it me
44:21
Speaker 2: being present? We're going to steer people towards the assessment that,
44:26
Speaker 2: but just in general terms, for people listening to this,
44:29
Speaker 2: maybe we just don't pay attention to what's going on
44:34
Speaker 2: around me and how that correlates to what's going on
44:37
Speaker 2: within me. It's just not an awareness that we have.
44:40
Speaker 2: I feel like, sorry, I'll shut up after this. I
44:43
Speaker 2: talk about this a lot. How I feel like a
44:46
Speaker 2: lot of us live unconsciously. And that's not an insult.
44:49
Speaker 2: It's just how I see things in that we kind
44:52
Speaker 2: of get out of bed and we get back into
44:54
Speaker 2: the canoe on our river, and it's our life has
44:57
Speaker 2: already got momentum and fly, and we kind of just
45:01
Speaker 2: step back into that momentum and we do what we
45:05
Speaker 2: did yesterday the way that we did it yesterday, the
45:07
Speaker 2: day before.
45:08
Speaker 1: The month before, the year before, even though it wasn't
45:10
Speaker 1: really optimal.
45:12
Speaker 2: And sometimes we've almost got to get out of that
45:14
Speaker 2: river to be able to see what's going on. We've
45:16
Speaker 2: got to get to the side of the metaphoric bank
45:18
Speaker 2: or the side of the river, to get on the
45:20
Speaker 2: bank so we can be more aware of what we're
45:23
Speaker 2: doing and how we're doing it, because it's very difficult
45:26
Speaker 2: to be objective and aware about the thing that you're
45:29
Speaker 2: in the middle of, you know, so being able to
45:32
Speaker 2: try and step back and go what is going on
45:34
Speaker 2: and when I'm in that environment, or when I sleep
45:37
Speaker 2: with the air on or the air off, or two
45:40
Speaker 2: blankets or one blanket or all that kind of stuff.
45:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the first thing that I would get people
45:47
Speaker 3: to do is to think about the place and people
45:52
Speaker 3: an environment that makes them most happy. Right, And the
45:56
Speaker 3: really important thing is for me, when I'm doing work
46:01
Speaker 3: and I'm doing it productively and with a great schedule
46:04
Speaker 3: and a great priority, my whole outlook on life just
46:09
Speaker 3: improves dramatically. I feel more love for my kids, I
46:11
Speaker 3: feel more love for my friends. I feel like the
46:14
Speaker 3: day is actually worth living, Whereas if I don't do
46:17
Speaker 3: that work, or if I'm miss or disorganized, that actually
46:20
Speaker 3: creates strength to me, but for somebody else's. I just
46:24
Speaker 3: love having my family over and cooking them a meal,
46:28
Speaker 3: and I love the idea of us connecting together. There
46:31
Speaker 3: is nothing more grounding and peaceful for me than that,
46:35
Speaker 3: you know, another person is I just love getting into
46:38
Speaker 3: nature and immersing in nature and going for a walk
46:42
Speaker 3: and just listening to the birds and being connected to nature.
46:45
Speaker 3: Another person says, I just love being in my hit class,
46:50
Speaker 3: trying to beat all of those other people in the
46:52
Speaker 3: class and just winning. I hate not winning, and I
46:56
Speaker 3: feel so good when I can compete and win and
46:59
Speaker 3: I'm in some sort of challenge or excitement or doing
47:02
Speaker 3: a different thing, experiencing a different place, doing a different adventure.
47:05
Speaker 3: Another person's like, I just love being around my best friends.
47:08
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter what we're doing, it's social so and
47:11
Speaker 3: the reason why I share those and it can be
47:13
Speaker 3: I just like time by myself in a nice quiet
47:15
Speaker 3: room where I could just be completely with my own thoughts.
47:17
Speaker 3: And the reason why I share that is because everyone's
47:20
Speaker 3: searching for what should I start with first? Is it exercise?
47:23
Speaker 3: Is it food? Is at sleep? Is it whatever? But
47:26
Speaker 3: what we know from the work that we've done, we
47:28
Speaker 3: know that there is a different People have a biological
47:32
Speaker 3: mandate for their top priority. And for me, the way
47:36
Speaker 3: that my brain rewards itself, it's productive work makes everything
47:40
Speaker 3: cycles around that, and if I get that right, it
47:42
Speaker 3: works for somebody else it is is my family safe.
47:46
Speaker 3: The third is Is it just my group of friends
47:48
Speaker 3: and spending time and having fun? Is it or a
47:50
Speaker 3: sense of freedom if somebody else is a challenge. And
47:53
Speaker 3: this is where if you think of it that way,
47:57
Speaker 3: rather than oh, I need to get things right, that
47:59
Speaker 3: you can start with what are the environments that just
48:01
Speaker 3: make me feel fantastic? And my suggestion is to just
48:04
Speaker 3: incorporate more of those things into your life rather than
48:08
Speaker 3: trying to look for every little nook and cranny and
48:10
Speaker 3: every little variation of exercise, whatever it might be, Just
48:13
Speaker 3: go what is going to make me feel amazing? What
48:15
Speaker 3: kind of weights do I really like to lift? Kind
48:19
Speaker 3: of cardio do I absolutely love doing? And when you know,
48:22
Speaker 3: if I had the choice on the weekend, when would
48:24
Speaker 3: I do it? What would make me feel like I'm
48:26
Speaker 3: not rushed in the morning and I could wake up
48:28
Speaker 3: and just do it in my own time and really
48:30
Speaker 3: enjoy it. Who would I be with? So I would
48:34
Speaker 3: make a do a bit of an audit of when
48:36
Speaker 3: do I feel at my best? And is it the people?
48:39
Speaker 3: Is that the place? Is it the activity? Is it
48:42
Speaker 3: the food or is it not the food? Is it
48:44
Speaker 3: just the people? Is it the solitude? Is it the
48:47
Speaker 3: work orientation? And actually have. And normally, you know, culturally
48:53
Speaker 3: we're rewarded for working really hard, but then culturally we're
48:57
Speaker 3: punished for putting work over our family, in friends or
49:00
Speaker 3: whatever it might be. So there's this total tension that's
49:03
Speaker 3: happening all the time, and people think that, oh, me
49:05
Speaker 3: looking after my family's not enough. You know, me just
49:08
Speaker 3: wanting to spend time with my friends, it's not enough.
49:10
Speaker 3: That's not a good enough reward. And what I would
49:12
Speaker 3: really encourage you to do is actually just think what
49:15
Speaker 3: is my favorite thing to do, and then bugger what
49:17
Speaker 3: everybody else thinks, and just think I love that that
49:20
Speaker 3: makes me turn up as my best I'm going to
49:22
Speaker 3: do more of that. And that in itself is a
49:24
Speaker 3: recovery that in itself is eliciting flow and reward. And
49:29
Speaker 3: because in those times you actually feel, you look at
49:32
Speaker 3: your physiology, it's focused, rewarded, and calm, and that is
49:36
Speaker 3: the signature of health. So if you've got that, you
49:39
Speaker 3: are maximizing life in that moment. That's all life's about,
49:42
Speaker 3: pretty much, that combination of things. I've got focus, I'm calm,
49:45
Speaker 3: and I'm feeling rewarded. If we could all be in
49:47
Speaker 3: that space all the time. Life's a breeze, and those
49:51
Speaker 3: things come from things that align with us. So I
49:53
Speaker 3: would look beyond the normal scope and I would look
49:56
Speaker 3: for things that truly make you feel inspired. That's where
49:58
Speaker 3: i'd start.
50:00
Speaker 1: Is there a pill for it? Well?
50:03
Speaker 3: I mean not yet, not yet.
50:06
Speaker 1: I love that.
50:07
Speaker 2: I love that, mate. You know what I want to
50:09
Speaker 2: I was going to, but I'm not going to. You
50:11
Speaker 2: know what I want to talk to you about one day?
50:13
Speaker 2: I want to talk to you about one day. We
50:14
Speaker 2: don't have time because we're going to wind up. But
50:17
Speaker 2: how goods in early morning? Pooh like a great pooh?
50:20
Speaker 1: Oh my god? Doesn't that set you up for a
50:22
Speaker 1: great day?
50:23
Speaker 2: Anyway, Let's talk about that next time. Maybe everybody has
50:26
Speaker 2: just gone thank god they didn't talk about it this time.
50:30
Speaker 2: How do people find you? How can people steer them
50:34
Speaker 2: towards your website and you? And doctor Cam does corporate work,
50:40
Speaker 2: he works with schools, He is available for all.
50:43
Speaker 1: Kinds of shit.
50:44
Speaker 2: So follow him and connect with him and maybe maybe
50:47
Speaker 2: even get him into your organization.
50:48
Speaker 1: How do people do that? Mate?
50:50
Speaker 3: I just google doctor Cam McDonald and then share group
50:54
Speaker 3: shae group, and you'll find a web page with all
50:57
Speaker 3: of the various links that you need to get started.
51:00
Speaker 2: Perfect ideot any final thoughts of wisdom, tiff did you
51:04
Speaker 2: glean anything? Yes?
51:05
Speaker 3: I do. Actually, in twenty twenty one, the population of
51:09
Speaker 3: Gundagey was twenty and fifty seven. Doctor Cam, gone down.
51:13
Speaker 3: It's gone down with Jan.
51:19
Speaker 1: Did you tell Jan? Well done? That's hilarious. That's hilarious.
51:24
Speaker 2: Well I might just call this episode gunder Guy. Population
51:28
Speaker 2: twenty and fifty seven. We'll say goodbye affair, but Doc,
51:35
Speaker 2: Doctor Tiffany, Doctor Cam.
51:37
Speaker 1: Thanks guys, thank you you