Latest / Constellations and all that... / 45. A Couple’s Journey into Family Constellation Work with John Palairet & Jo Amrein-Palairet

Transcript

45. A Couple’s Journey into Family Constellation Work with John Palairet & Jo Amrein-Palairet · Constellations and all that...

• 0:00
  Kia everyone.
• 0:01
  Welcome to Constellations Kia, everyone to Constellations.
• 0:04
  This is the first time I've done this two.
• 0:07
  This is the first time Ive done this.
• 0:08
  Actually having two people on this conversation.
• 0:10
  I could have something InApp.
• 0:12
  I didn't, I could have said something.
• 0:13
  So welcome Joe and John.
• 0:16
  So welcome Joe, and for you to both to introduce yourselves and a little bit about, uh, a little bit about you, where you're from, uh, what you do, you first.
• 0:27
  Okay.
• 0:27
  So I'm Joe Am Ryan Pal.
• 0:30
  I was born in Topo.
• 0:32
  Um, my ancestors came out to, in the early 19 hundreds.
• 0:37
  I have two siblings.
• 0:40
  We at the present moment live in Toga in the lower Kama.
• 0:44
  I moved up to Mount Monga when I was 11, um, and rode horses and had the best life up here.
• 0:54
  And I have three children.
• 0:57
  I have a baby in spirit.
• 0:59
  And I have Emily, who is 23, and Ben who's 33.
• 1:05
  And this is John, my husband.
• 1:07
  Hi, I'm John Re um, I was, um, born and raised near here, near where we live now.
• 1:16
  I've sort of always lived about an hour from here, so this is very much home for me.
• 1:20
  My ancestors came from England, Ireland, Scotland, and from Arto, New Zealand as well.
• 1:28
  So, um, yeah, I have connections all over the world.
• 1:32
  I, I have not visited my, my ancestors homes on the other side of the world.
• 1:38
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:38
  Um, actually, sorry, I have ancestors in France as well and we did visit that area one time, but it's for England and I haven't been so something yet to come.
• 1:47
  Hmm.
• 1:47
  Beautiful.
• 1:48
  And um, so for those who dunno who are listening to this and maybe you're on the other side of the world where Joe and John is are located, is on the east coast of the North island in the most amazing place of the part of the bay of Plenty where there's lots of great surf, um, lots of sunshine and um, really cool people to be honest.
• 2:09
  Yeah, it's a great place to hang out, especially when I was a teenager.
• 2:12
  I still love going there.
• 2:14
  It's one of those places.
• 2:15
  It's a very, it is a very beautiful place.
• 2:17
  It's very relaxed, has a relaxed feel about it.
• 2:20
  I, I often think that, um, living here is like winning the lottery, you know, of all the places you could live in the world.
• 2:26
  I think this has gotta be one of the best.
• 2:28
  So yeah, we, we feel very lucky.
• 2:30
  That's cool.
• 2:31
  Mm, it's very cool.
• 2:32
  And you guys are kind of up and I, before we started recording, I said you were up in the, up in the clouds and you said, yeah, pretty much today.
• 2:40
  So you've got some clouds in the sky that are hanging around.
• 2:44
  Yeah, we, we look down the valley to the ocean and we can see the, sort of the rain coming up the valley.
• 2:50
  There's, there's showers down there by the looks of it at the moment.
• 2:52
  So, yeah, it's beautiful.
• 2:54
  Amazing.
• 2:55
  Thank you.
• 2:55
  So, um, I know, uh, I know quite a bit about you both, but for those who don't know and you can take, decide who goes first.
• 3:06
  Share with me a little bit about how you, how you got into constellations, what brought you, when did you meet it?
• 3:13
  So I found Constellation work about five years ago.
• 3:17
  No, it was more than that actually, probably seven years ago.
• 3:20
  But I was, I was soul searching and I was delving into lots of different modalities and then would back out of them pretty quick.
• 3:28
  Like, no, that's not for me.
• 3:30
  Um, I ended up doing Reiki training and um, yin yoga for my own personal healing.
• 3:37
  And then I found family Constellation work and I. I couldn't believe it.
• 3:42
  I went and sat in a circle and.
• 3:46
  It was like changed my life completely from one constellation and I became super addicted to it.
• 3:52
  And I'm just like, okay, I can't wait for the next one.
• 3:54
  When's the next one?
• 3:56
  And what I discovered that there were for me in this work, it was like, oh my God, there's things out there that it's.
• 4:02
  Way bigger than me.
• 4:04
  And I was able to kind of like the onion layer, I was just sort of like, that's not even mine.
• 4:09
  And, but giving it a beautiful place behind me and honoring where I'd come from.
• 4:13
  And, um, so that's how I found the work.
• 4:15
  And I'm a school teacher, um, by trade and I, I worked with special ed for many years and I actually left the classroom and trained in this work and was like this, we need this here.
• 4:28
  So, yeah, that's how, that's how I found it.
• 4:31
  Mm-hmm.
• 4:32
  And I've never looked back.
• 4:33
  So for, for me, Tracy, I found the work.
• 4:36
  Joe introduced me to the work, basically.
• 4:39
  Um.
• 4:41
  She might've been going to, um, constellations for maybe a year or something, something along those lines.
• 4:46
  And, and then said, look, there's one, there's one locally.
• 4:49
  Why don't you come along and have a look?
• 4:50
  And, um, so I actually went to a few of those, but it took me a long time even to get up as a representative.
• 4:55
  I was mm-hmm.
• 4:57
  I, I sat back, I was, um, just fascinated in the way things were unfolding, but I, I wasn't sure if I wanted to be.
• 5:05
  Um, a part of it yet, you know, I was sort of just waiting and then one day I got dragged into it and, and, and felt into, um, you know, as somebody's ancestor.
• 5:14
  And it was just magical.
• 5:15
  I thought, wow, this is, why did I wait so long?
• 5:18
  It's, yeah.
• 5:19
  Um, so that was my introduction.
• 5:22
  I then, uh, went on to do some training as, as well.
• 5:25
  And, um, I'd like to spend much more time doing this.
• 5:29
  I, I have a day job.
• 5:30
  I'm a carpenter as a, during the week.
• 5:33
  That takes a lot of my focus, a lot of my time and energy.
• 5:36
  Um, so even I'm, I'm sort of working on a transition at the moment, sort of trying to spend more time in the, in the world of constellating and Yeah, and a little less time in a carpenter.
• 5:50
  So, yeah, it's nice.
• 5:52
  What, what have been some of the, um, changes or the, yeah, maybe the changes that you've noticed in yourself that you fit, may feel comfortable in sharing?
• 6:01
  Have you noticed any big shifts?
• 6:03
  Uh, I think, well, I could st I think for me, um, we have a daughter who has a disability and so we've really advocated really strongly for her and a lot of my decisions were made around my intuition and even though I was really stuck in a world of this is how we do it, when it came to our daughter, I was, I really.
• 6:27
  Just new and I'd never question it.
• 6:30
  And so then for me it was, I, I remember, I won't say her name, but our daughter, she said to me, she was about 14 or 15, and she said to me, I just need you to back off and let me live my life.
• 6:43
  'cause I was really, it was really about keeping her alive.
• 6:46
  Yeah.
• 6:46
  And then I had to kind of go, okay.
• 6:49
  And so I. I had to start looking at myself, and that was super scary.
• 6:54
  And so when I found this modality, I remember, I, I didn't realize I had so much grief.
• 7:00
  I lost my mom when I was 14 and I didn't realize I was so angry with her and I was holding it really deep in my bones.
• 7:07
  Like it was something that I didn't even realize until I had to start looking at me.
• 7:13
  And this work, I was able to.
• 7:16
  Make peace with that and, and actually my mom's, I was able to just give her so much love and instead of so much anger that I didn't even know I was holding, you know, we're talking like 25, 30 years later, I didn't realize it was so much grief for me, for me.
• 7:33
  And so, yeah, it was really profound for me being able to, someone represented my mom and I was able to.
• 7:40
  Gently, but fiercely let her tell her how it was for me, and then being able to realize that I wasn't alone and, and she was there with me and I was, I was blocking her to walk with me.
• 7:53
  You know?
• 7:53
  And, um, and just being able to stand in front of her, you know, when you go into that field of the constellation.
• 8:01
  And, um, and having my mom stand behind me, a representative of my mom.
• 8:06
  Um.
• 8:06
  I was really life changing and from that day on, she's just totally walked with me instead of me constantly banging a wall around my mom, which I, you know, and I, and I, and I didn't even know, it, didn't even realize it until I had to really start looking at myself.
• 8:25
  Yeah.
• 8:25
  When we, when we're not allowing that flow that could, that.
• 8:30
  Flow of love life can be a bit tricky.
• 8:33
  Yeah.
• 8:33
  Yeah.
• 8:34
  We could create all sorts of situations and scenarios for ourselves.
• 8:38
  Unconscious.
• 8:38
  Yeah, totally.
• 8:39
  Totally.
• 8:40
  I thought, and I thought I'd grieved for her, you know, I thought, you know, but then I became a mom really young as well, and I just put all my energy and life into that.
• 8:48
  And then having a child with a disability, I just put all my life and energy into that.
• 8:53
  Mm.
• 8:54
  And then, and then being told to.
• 8:56
  Back off mom.
• 8:58
  I had to start looking and yeah.
• 9:00
  So I am so grateful for this modality and this work because I, I was in a really dark place.
• 9:06
  Yeah.
• 9:06
  And just weaving through it.
• 9:08
  Yeah.
• 9:09
  So it was, yeah, so that's probably really was really profound for me when I got to really look at my mom and be with my mom.
• 9:17
  Beautiful.
• 9:19
  What about you, John?
• 9:20
  I think for me, the, um, the things that I've noticed that, or the changes I've noticed, um, have been the subtleties and it's, it's, it's not always about me too, you know, it's, it's the, I notice shifts in others, you know, my system, my family system, you know, just little, little things that sort of are connecting or resonating or, um, just the little shifts, you know, the beautiful little shifts I find.
• 9:45
  I find I'm now.
• 9:47
  A much more accepting human being I think of, of just what is, you know, it's, yeah, I'd like to say without judgment, it sounds, um, but it's, it, it really, it is what it feels like, you know, it's just, I can just really accept things for, for what they are.
• 10:03
  Not that things, you know, bad things have to stay the way they are, but, but, you know, I can see things for what they are perhaps in a different way now, which has been really freeing.
• 10:11
  Do you think that this work allows you to, yeah.
• 10:14
  Not sweat the small stuff, but yeah.
• 10:16
  See, as you said, seeing things in a different way.
• 10:19
  Mm-hmm.
• 10:20
  Yeah, I, I guess there's just, um, you're seeing in so many different perspectives, you know, well, it gives you that ability, you know, to, to look at problems from so many different angles or so many different, um, lifetimes.
• 10:33
  You know, the problem, the problem's, not just.
• 10:35
  Often not, not about our lifetime at all.
• 10:38
  It's, it's, you know, it can be multiple lifetimes back in our system or, yeah.
• 10:43
  It's fascinating.
• 10:44
  I think there's something really interesting for, for us, um, you know, when my ancestors came, well, actually I'll start it with when, when we had, Emily was the first thing they said to us, were we related?
• 10:56
  And I was like.
• 10:57
  No, I don't, not that we're aware of.
• 10:59
  But then when you, when we started doing this work and having a, an understanding of, um, what kind of sits behind us and, and this is genetics really like, and it was kind of, you know, we don't know for a fact, but my ancestors could have, um, attacked John's ancestors and there could have been.
• 11:19
  They might not have attacked, but they might have got married.
• 11:21
  Or who knows, like we're going back over a hundred years ago.
• 11:23
  But when all those things happened back in those days, you know, so many generations later, we have a child with this super rare condition, only one in the world.
• 11:33
  And it's, and you know, and the first thing is, are you guys related?
• 11:36
  Huh?
• 11:37
  You know?
• 11:37
  And so by doing this work, it's helped us understand that.
• 11:41
  Maybe there was something that there was a trauma that happened back in, you know, with our ancestors, who knows?
• 11:47
  But we've been able to give it a place, really, and acknowledge it.
• 11:51
  And yeah.
• 11:52
  So it's just for clarification, we're not related.
• 11:56
  Oh, we're not related.
• 11:57
  No disclaimer at the bottom.
• 11:59
  We are not related.
• 12:00
  Thank you, Tracy.
• 12:02
  Whoever wants to ask this, answer this one first.
• 12:05
  How would you describe Family Constellations when you've gone to a Barbie and.
• 12:10
  You're at the cafe and you meet someone for the first time, how would you describe constellations?
• 12:16
  Do you want me to explain that first?
• 12:18
  Yeah, you, yeah.
• 12:19
  It's always very tricky.
• 12:19
  It is, it is a tricky one.
• 12:21
  And, and do you know if, I think, and maybe it shouldn't be this way, but I think it's, um, it depends who's asking the question too, you know?
• 12:28
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 12:29
  Because I, I consider it energy work.
• 12:32
  So perhaps if that person is not in tuned into energy work, then, then it'll be, uh, more, um, a therapy, a type of therapy, which, which, you know, I guess it is, and I'll explain on one level, it's, it's about recognizing patterns and recognizing, um, traumas that you're noticing in your life or, or your family system.
• 12:55
  And, and we just find those.
• 12:57
  Search those out and, and give them a place in our, in our system.
• 13:01
  Um, acknowledge or give them a place in our system.
• 13:04
  Some people may ask that question and, and I would come at it from a slightly different angle, you know, and it's about, I would talk about a connectedness, um, on an energetic level.
• 13:14
  Yeah.
• 13:15
  And, and similar but just with a, with an energetic twist on it, I guess.
• 13:19
  Yeah.
• 13:19
  That's, that's how ha.
• 13:21
  Have you ever, have you ever been asked by any of your chippy buddies or your Sparky buddies?
• 13:26
  So what are you doing this weekend, John?
• 13:28
  And you've said, I've gone to a family constellation workshop.
• 13:30
  And they go, what?
• 13:31
  Yeah, they do.
• 13:32
  They do say that.
• 13:34
  Yeah.
• 13:34
  I say, um, why don't you come along?
• 13:38
  Yeah.
• 13:39
  That's what Constellating is like though, isn't it?
• 13:41
  It it, it really is.
• 13:43
  Um, it's not coming from the mind.
• 13:45
  It's, it's really tapping into what's, what's around you, what needs to be said, what needs to be shown.
• 13:50
  Um, yeah.
• 13:52
  You know, any movements that need to be made, they don't, yeah.
• 13:55
  They're not a conscious that, that's what I find anyway.
• 13:57
  They're not a conscious effort.
• 14:00
  So Beautiful.
• 14:01
  They just appear.
• 14:02
  And what about you, Joe?
• 14:04
  Yeah, it's an interesting one 'cause I always, I always say, you know, the best thing is to come along and have a look.
• 14:11
  But, but then I'll, I'll say, well, it's funny, I try not to get into too much story about it and I'm just like, just imagine if something that's happening for you in your life today is way bigger than you.
• 14:24
  When you come and sit in this work, you get to acknowledge it, give it a place.
• 14:30
  Becomes a beautiful resource and then you, you feel so much lighter and it's completely freeing.
• 14:36
  So I, I, so yeah, I keep it really simple and I think, and people come because of just keeping it nice and simple.
• 14:46
  Um, but, and then they'll, and then they, I think for me, they just trust, okay, well, we'll just trust what she said.
• 14:52
  You know?
• 14:52
  And we've got a retreat coming up soon, and there's a few women that are coming that have never done any.
• 14:58
  Anything of anything for themselves, you know?
• 15:01
  And, um, and I, so I always, always say, just, just come and you don't, you can just sit back and relax and, um.
• 15:09
  There'll be something in there for you.
• 15:10
  You know, you just, and the field is pulling you in there.
• 15:12
  Your ancestors are giving you a nudge.
• 15:14
  Totally, totally.
• 15:16
  That's interesting because my, I've got a retreat coming up soon too, and there's a huge chunk of people that are coming that have never done any constellation work.
• 15:24
  So there's something happening there, shifting in the world.
• 15:28
  People are starting to get curious or, or, and, you know.
• 15:32
  Yeah, people are ready.
• 15:34
  I think, you know, talk therapy is amazing and there's so many incredible modalities out there, but this one, it just kind of, it really brings light to it and understanding and acknowledgement and freedom and quite quickly too.
• 15:52
  Yeah.
• 15:53
  Yeah.
• 15:53
  I think that's the, that for me, that's the real difference I think with this, with Constellation Therapy is that.
• 16:00
  Um, the magic happens so quickly, you know, these things just unfold effortlessly, and you don't even need to get up on the field.
• 16:08
  You can just, you don't even need to represent.
• 16:10
  You can just sit back and just be open and, and you, and, and I get it all the time, it's like, that was my family system that I just witnessed.
• 16:20
  And, you know, there was something like, it blows people away.
• 16:25
  So, so answering that question, I try and keep it really simple.
• 16:29
  Come and have a look.
• 16:29
  You, you both are doing something.
• 16:32
  Um, you've got your niche, would that be the word?
• 16:37
  You're doing something different to, uh, um, other facilitators as far as you are quite focused on relationships.
• 16:45
  We live it with a living proof of.
• 16:48
  Um, a really beautiful, functional relationship.
• 16:51
  And I think, and we haven't had it easy.
• 16:54
  We've had a, you know, we've been together 28, 29 years, married, 21.
• 17:00
  It hasn't been easy, but we've.
• 17:03
  We've navigated it so beautifully together, and I think so because our, because we've had that experience together.
• 17:10
  It's like relationships don't have to be hard, you know?
• 17:13
  We are like our worst enemies in our, in relationships and we punish ourselves and each other for no reason.
• 17:20
  So, yeah.
• 17:20
  So that is something we do offer, which, and I'm super passionate about it because we are kind of, we are living proof of it, but also.
• 17:30
  It's for the next generations and it's for our children because if we can get it right for our children, that's gonna be life changing for the world if we can really, so yeah, so I, I have a, personally, a real passion for relationships and, and our, our future generation, our children.
• 17:46
  'cause if we can get it right as mom and dad.
• 17:49
  You know, our, our kids are gonna be good.
• 17:51
  And we are living proof of that.
• 17:53
  Our children are really good, you know, and we've got a daughter that's got so many hurdles.
• 17:58
  Her life isn't easy, but she, she is really good and she belongs, and she knows her mom and dad have got her back.
• 18:06
  Absolutely.
• 18:07
  Yeah.
• 18:07
  So we, yeah.
• 18:09
  So, so yeah, as far as relationship goes, it's kind of fun.
• 18:13
  We kind of, sort of work together in that, especially in our retreats and, and we actually feel like we're on retreat together, don't we?
• 18:19
  That's right.
• 18:19
  Yeah.
• 18:20
  And, um, and so, yeah, we have a really nice time.
• 18:23
  Yeah.
• 18:23
  Beautiful.
• 18:24
  So tell us a little bit more about the, you've got this retreat coming up in.
• 18:28
  Somewhere, uh, is it South Oakland or, yeah, midway West on the coast at Wai.
• 18:33
  Yeah.
• 18:34
  Beautiful.
• 18:35
  Yeah, it is.
• 18:36
  Um, it's at, it's at Cooler, um, which is a beautiful building, um, opens out to the view of the ocean.
• 18:44
  It's just, it's a stunning location.
• 18:47
  Um, beautiful space.
• 18:49
  This is our third one.
• 18:50
  John was like, is this our second retreat?
• 18:52
  And, and I'm like, no, this is our third.
• 18:55
  So we attract couples, we attract just parents, single parents, you know, and even, you know, um, navigating, you know, single, uh, separated parents like that in itself.
• 19:06
  The children carry so much.
• 19:08
  So if we, if we can get it right.
• 19:10
  Even if one parent comes in and they can set a beautiful example of how we're gonna show up and as parents navigating in different homes, you know, um, so yeah, we have all sorts of people.
• 19:22
  Yeah, and, and, and saying that too, showing up when you're talking about single parents, you know, like showing up and being able to see the other person if they were to do some work or, or maybe that drops in or not, around seeing the other person and the system that they come from.
• 19:39
  You start thinking about those sort of things, doesn't it?
• 19:41
  Yeah.
• 19:42
  I think about where I would be or what would be different in my life if I had found this work earlier.
• 19:49
  Obviously wasn't to be, I know I always, I always, because I do tend, we do tend to attract people in their t you know, their twenties and thirties.
• 19:57
  So kind of the younger generations, not, not always, we have a beautiful mix, but I'm just like, man, you know, to be, to be in our twenties or even our early thirties.
• 20:06
  This work.
• 20:06
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 20:09
  But I guess that, you know, somebody has to lead this, you know, somebody has to show the way and, and we are here at the right time doing it.
• 20:17
  Absolutely.
• 20:18
  The retreats are just such a beautiful way, you know, because typically we'll go to a constellation, um, or a, a workshop or something for the day, you know, a number of hours, and it's a beautiful experience.
• 20:30
  And then we all leave.
• 20:32
  Um, but to, to come back, you know, or for, to do a longer day and then come back for a second day in the field, is it sort of cements everybody together as a, um, as a group just in such a beautiful way we connect and, um.
• 20:47
  Yeah, it's, it's not that we become lifelong friends after that, but there's just a beautiful, uh, level of sharing and appreciation and just an amazing feeling of generosity.
• 20:57
  All, all these beautiful things that come out of it.
• 21:00
  Um, and it feels like, you know, like we'll have a shared meal after the, you know, after the work, after the day's work and what have you, and or even at lunch and e everybody's just.
• 21:10
  Chatting and friendly, and it's almost like they're supporting each other, you know, with whatever's happening in their lives.
• 21:16
  It, it's, it's fascinating to watch, isn't it?
• 21:18
  It's, it's what you asked the question before about, um, me, I'm, you know, I'm a carpenter and, and do my builder mates come along to any constellations or any workshops.
• 21:28
  I wish they would.
• 21:30
  Um, you know, and it is offered, I think, but when people do show up, even people that haven't been before, they do show up for a workshop in a couple of days and, and they leave looking like different people.
• 21:41
  Mm mm Is what I see.
• 21:43
  Anyway.
• 21:44
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 21:44
  Yeah.
• 21:44
  Yeah.
• 21:45
  It's the, the shift is phenomenal.
• 21:48
  Yeah.
• 21:48
  And there's more and more, I think, well, there's more and more men starting to come to the work as well.
• 21:53
  Mm-hmm.
• 21:54
  Slowly.
• 21:55
  Most modalities, you'll find the majority, 80%, 18, maybe 90% of it is women.
• 22:01
  But I'm noticing in the last, maybe the last 18 months, more men are showing up to different things that I'm attending, which is great because I think people are just tired of, of the same old, and it's, and it's not working right?
• 22:17
  COVID opened the doors to so many things for people to go.
• 22:20
  Actually, I don't want my life to be the same.
• 22:23
  I wanna do things differently.
• 22:25
  And then when the world opened up, people just kind of went, oh, reset back into automatic some, not all, but some.
• 22:31
  Mm-hmm.
• 22:31
  So, and there are still some that are finding their way back in and, and maybe they'll open the doors for others to find their way too, but mm-hmm.
• 22:39
  As, as a male, like I'm very much an apprentice in this work, you know, it's very, it's, it feels very new to me.
• 22:46
  I, the way Joe and I work together, I like to.
• 22:50
  I like to be in a support sort of a role, and I love, she's in, in the thick of it, doing the work and, and the getting the technical aspects right and, and you know, finding the shifts that need to happen.
• 23:03
  And I find myself often on the periphery looking for, again, the subtleties.
• 23:09
  Um, you know, and trying to, trying to feel into the specific energy of a, of, of a, of a issue within a system.
• 23:19
  I've actually been trying to, um, I keep doing it in different books, so, so I lose it, but I've been trying to catalog the different feelings, um, of the, these traumas that we all, all our systems seem to hold somewhere or, or virtually.
• 23:32
  Everybody's system seems to have very similar issues.
• 23:36
  Subtleties, of course, you know, differently, but, but within systems.
• 23:39
  So feeling into those is, is quite amazing.
• 23:42
  I, I'm very interested in trying to find a little bit of new ground where perhaps we could move things even quicker and, and perhaps some for more people at once kind of thing.
• 23:52
  So, and you've been doing some one-on-ones though, haven't you?
• 23:55
  Yeah, very new at it, at one-on-ones.
• 23:58
  Um, yeah, so I'm, I really am trying to find my, my way, um, in, in all of this as a, as a male.
• 24:05
  So I would like to open it up for more males to, to join in.
• 24:11
  The women should only have to do so much of the work.
• 24:13
  You know, the men need to turn up and, and do work as well.
• 24:16
  I believe so I'm in the work observing right now, thinking, yeah, just quietly planning, figuring out how, how to.
• 24:24
  How to bring more males in and, and, you know, everybody benefits really.
• 24:29
  I, I think leading by example and the both of you working together is such a beautiful blend as well.
• 24:34
  Yeah, yeah.
• 24:36
  Now, Joe, you, I know you went back and you did a counseling degree last year.
• 24:41
  I did.
• 24:41
  It's so much going on.
• 24:43
  And in the middle of all of that you did a counseling degree?
• 24:47
  I did.
• 24:48
  Mm-hmm.
• 24:48
  I, um, I did my postgrad in counseling and guidance and it was really spontaneous.
• 24:54
  I was kind of, um, I think for me, now that I think about it and having that experience completing it, I really got to feel the culture of ROA and the land that we're on.
• 25:06
  And as much as, you know, I'm a paha woman walking on this land.
• 25:10
  I've always respected it and I've always respected who has come before me, um, and the people of the land.
• 25:17
  And I think what it did for me was it really gave me a beautiful understanding of the culture here.
• 25:26
  Um, and I really love, you know, the family systems.
• 25:29
  I mean all parts of that degree for me, some of it was quite boring, but I really loved.
• 25:36
  The family system part of it.
• 25:38
  And I use that a lot.
• 25:39
  And I actually weaved in a lot of my assignments, family constellation therapy, you know, and then the, having just my knowledge, becoming more appreciative, um, of.
• 25:52
  Of the culture here, you know, the Maori culture and the, and the land, and help me understand it more.
• 25:57
  And I think doing this work is such an honor, you know, and especially here in, um, it just helped me, it just cemented it for me.
• 26:08
  Yeah.
• 26:09
  Yeah.
• 26:10
  It was a, it was big, it was a challenge and it was big.
• 26:13
  I, you know, I got my teacher's degree years ago, and then, yeah, I'll go do a postcard.
• 26:17
  That's easy.
• 26:18
  Oh my gosh, what am I doing?
• 26:20
  Um, but it was beautiful, beautiful parts of it.
• 26:22
  And, and the highlight for me was the culture and the people of this land.
• 26:27
  Are you still running workshops at your place or, 'cause I know you've been doing some down in Pap moa.
• 26:33
  Yeah, I do.
• 26:34
  Um, I don't run them up here anymore.
• 26:36
  Um, I do run, we, John and I, we run them, I mean, I lead them, um, John and I run them together down in Pap Ma.
• 26:44
  Um, at a little venue down there again, it's great.
• 26:47
  You know, it's, um, it's interesting you have like a little community.
• 26:51
  I don't know if you find that.
• 26:52
  And you have your, your little community and everybody turns up and then there'll be new people that come and we've actually got a workshop on Sunday and um, we've got a quite a handful of men coming, which is amazing.
• 27:04
  I don't know who they are.
• 27:06
  John being one of them.
• 27:06
  I know him.
• 27:07
  Fantastic.
• 27:09
  I had a question then, and it's just popped right outta my head.
• 27:12
  Where did it go?
• 27:12
  Question.
• 27:13
  Where'd you go?
• 27:14
  Who's your favorite const?
• 27:15
  Who's your favorite facilitator?
• 27:17
  Do you have any that you admire on afar or, you know, I'm actually, I'm actually doing some training at the moment for a year.
• 27:25
  Um, with a, a facilitator, uh, from New York, uh, Lisa Mu, and, um, I've done a lot of work with her off and on over the years.
• 27:36
  I love her work and I love how she facilitates and I would love to be in person with her one day.
• 27:42
  Is it all online?
• 27:43
  There's no in person.
• 27:44
  Yeah.
• 27:44
  Yeah, she does in person, but it's in New York, so, um.
• 27:49
  She does, she runs workshops and all sorts of stuff over there.
• 27:52
  But mine would ha you know, I think I, Lisa's definitely, but I think locally, if I think down here in and Australia, it would have to be Susan.
• 28:03
  Yeah.
• 28:03
  I think, um, but there's also Maria, I don't even know if I can choose.
• 28:07
  That is a really tough question.
• 28:08
  Yeah.
• 28:09
  Because there's so many incredible facilitators out there, but I think, um, Maria and Susan are probably my two.
• 28:16
  I've learned so much from them, and I've, and I've had, you know, been in person with them has been, um, I think, 'cause then you, you kind of get that really beautiful connection.
• 28:27
  And I've done, you know, I've done, um, Susan's, well John and I did it together.
• 28:31
  We did, um, her training last year.
• 28:34
  Yeah.
• 28:35
  So I just, I think, yeah.
• 28:37
  What about you?
• 28:38
  Yeah, those two as well.
• 28:39
  But, you know, I think it, it's, it's almost any or every time I go.
• 28:46
  S you know, witness a constellation.
• 28:48
  I, I'm in awe of whoever the facilitator is at the time.
• 28:51
  I think just watching the unfolding.
• 28:54
  Yeah, so I'm often, I'm often in awe of, of whoever it is.
• 28:59
  That is so, that is so true.
• 29:00
  We were in Topo and there were, we were, um, two facilitators that trained under you, Tracy, and we got to witness them doing the work, you know, facilitating and they were incredible.
• 29:13
  Like just the learning that we, you know, you learn and the, the gentleness and just everything.
• 29:19
  So you are right.
• 29:20
  I think anytime you get to sit in the field of this work.
• 29:24
  It's just, it's magic, whoever it might be.
• 29:27
  Great answers, guys.
• 29:29
  Um, and and you are off to Mexico to present?
• 29:35
  Yeah.
• 29:36
  Yeah.
• 29:37
  We're off to Mexico to present.
• 29:38
  You're quite right with you.
• 29:41
  Yep.
• 29:41
  We're both gonna be doing that or all three of us, but at different time.
• 29:45
  Very exciting.
• 29:46
  Yeah.
• 29:47
  We haven't really be given it much thought.
• 29:48
  It's funny, it's funny with life.
• 29:50
  Hey, how you, it's just like you just.
• 29:54
  Okay, we've gotta do this and get organized for this and, but it's gonna be such an honor to be over there and be in that field with all those, there's some incredible expertise that are gonna be there.
• 30:05
  So we feel, we feel like the Apprentice going over there.
• 30:08
  We're the little ones, eh, we're the little one.
• 30:10
  We're gonna get to mingle with some, um, some of the elders in the field and, and then bring our knowledge back to Arta and share it with our, our community here.
• 30:20
  And yeah, that's gonna be so cool.
• 30:23
  And even how beautiful taking Arto, you know, taking a bit of the magic from here over there too, which is, um, is, is an honor for us.
• 30:33
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 30:35
  Mm. And we had Alexandra at your place making a drum up at the top of the, um, gosh, what was that, 18 months ago?
• 30:43
  Was that 18 months ago?
• 30:44
  Maybe three years ago?
• 30:46
  Yeah.
• 30:46
  Yeah.
• 30:46
  April 24.
• 30:47
  Yeah.
• 30:48
  23. Yeah.
• 30:49
  Four.
• 30:50
  Oh yeah.
• 30:50
  Sorry.
• 30:51
  Yeah.
• 30:52
  Feels like a bit longer ago.
• 30:53
  It does.
• 30:54
  Almost a lifetime ago.
• 30:55
  Really.
• 30:55
  Eh, there been a lot's happened in between that.
• 30:58
  Do you have any memorable experiences or constellations that you feel that you could share without divulging anyone's confidentiality?
• 31:09
  Confidentiality or, or something that you've witnessed that has really made you go, wow, this work is, I mean, I know that we experience a lot when we do this work.
• 31:19
  Sometimes there are some that really stand out.
• 31:21
  I could talk about one for myself.
• 31:24
  Yeah, a personal one that I, a piece of work that I did, I've always had this, um, fear of, of water contained water, specifically dams, water tanks, that sort of thing.
• 31:35
  Um, I don't know what, you know, where that comes from.
• 31:39
  I won't go into the specifics, but, but it, it, it turned out that perhaps there was a, um.
• 31:45
  My family came from a ship building background and, and then, you know, there may have been an incident back there and a drowning was really fascinating.
• 31:54
  There was two facets to this piece of work.
• 31:58
  One of them was the, this fear of water and perhaps that drowning, um, was around that.
• 32:02
  But then the, the gift of, um, my, my woodworking skills.
• 32:08
  It appeared to come from this person.
• 32:11
  So there's this really, um, within that piece of work, there was a, um, an amazing acknowledgement.
• 32:17
  And, and so it was fascinating.
• 32:18
  But anyway, the, at the time this piece of work came up because to get to my job every day, I was crossing a dam, driving across a dam Wow.
• 32:27
  Every day.
• 32:27
  Which, which, you know, over the years it's gotten much easier, you know, 50 something now, and it's gotten much easier to do that.
• 32:35
  And so on Friday, I crossed the dam as usual.
• 32:38
  You know, my usual, um, let's just hope we get across okay and nothing goes wrong.
• 32:42
  And then did a piece of work on Sunday around this fear of water.
• 32:46
  And on Monday morning crossing the dam, I imagine myself being able to just dive in and float through the gates and, and down this canal, you know, which was.
• 32:58
  My worst nightmare only Wow.
• 33:01
  The Friday before.
• 33:02
  Yeah.
• 33:02
  So for me that was, that said it all, you know, it was just it.
• 33:07
  It was virtually instant for me.
• 33:09
  So.
• 33:10
  Yeah, that's, that's one that I often think of that just showed the work so clearly.
• 33:15
  And we, we'd go biking because we'd do, you know, there's lots of rides around here and you sometimes we'll have to cross a dam on your bike.
• 33:22
  And I would go and have a look over it, especially if the dam's been opened up and John's just like, what are you doing?
• 33:29
  But now I think, uh, the last time we wrote over a dam, he's like, this has nothing on me.
• 33:34
  And he came up really close.
• 33:35
  I'm like, whoa.
• 33:36
  You're nice and close.
• 33:37
  Yeah.
• 33:38
  Wow, that's really cool.
• 33:40
  Yeah.
• 33:41
  Fascinating.
• 33:42
  Eh, I think for me, I witnessed, I was a witness and there was a guy that came and he never acknowledged his, his father line and, but he was just really struggling and it was the most simplest piece of work, but he was told to go.
• 34:04
  Go home and, and, you know, and research your father and, and find out more about, he knew his father was where he was from and, and all of that, but he only acknowledged his female line.
• 34:15
  And so I got to witness that and it was beautiful.
• 34:18
  And he was like, okay.
• 34:19
  Really reluctant, but okay.
• 34:20
  And, you know, and had like a, kind of like a, okay, I need to do this if I want more balance in my life.
• 34:27
  And, and then I went, I went back to this constellation again and he was there and he had done some research on his, on his father and his life just got so much easier.
• 34:41
  He says, I feel whole now.
• 34:43
  Like being able to, you know, and so I think for me, that that has always stood out for me, the importance of acknowledging where we come from, you know, both lines, whether we know them or not.
• 34:57
  So he was kind of the proof of the, the pudding for me.
• 35:00
  It was like, wow.
• 35:01
  'cause it was kind of a guy that was pretty, you know, he was pretty staunch about no, I, my father's this and that, rah.
• 35:08
  You know, and I don't wanna, it was really reluctant.
• 35:11
  Yeah.
• 35:11
  Um, and then just the softness and the, the feeling of, oh wow.
• 35:16
  I feel completely different now.
• 35:17
  But, so yeah.
• 35:19
  So that was a. That was really cool to experience and I was just a witness.
• 35:23
  It's a little bit like what you said earlier about you not allowing the, the love, the connection, the flow with mom, you know?
• 35:30
  It's absolutely, isn't it?
• 35:32
  Yeah, totally.
• 35:33
  That balance of our, our masculine and our feminine science.
• 35:37
  Yeah, yeah, totally.
• 35:39
  And it's interesting, and I think that's one of the magical things about this work is we get to look at it differently.
• 35:46
  Like, you know, you just don't.
• 35:47
  You.
• 35:48
  Yeah.
• 35:49
  It's like, and even with my own person and my own clients, they're like, I never thought to even look at it that way.
• 35:55
  You know?
• 35:55
  And it's just a really simple conversation and it, and it's completely life changing.
• 36:00
  Hmm.
• 36:02
  Yeah.
• 36:02
  Yeah, yeah.
• 36:03
  So really, really good.
• 36:05
  I think, I was just thinking as we, as you were talking about that, that gentleman, you know, I often see with prostate problems and um, and things like that, that often it's because the, the men aren't connected to their fathers or their fathers are disconnected to their fathers.
• 36:22
  You know, they might be, have some sort of relationship with their father though, but there's a, there's a disconnection somewhere in the lineage and that's, there's nothing flowing to them.
• 36:31
  So.
• 36:32
  That's the importance of that, isn't it?
• 36:34
  Yeah.
• 36:34
  Really, really, really a really beautiful way to, to look at it and acknow it.
• 36:40
  It's so freeing.
• 36:42
  So where do you see, see yourselves going with this, with your Constellation work?
• 36:48
  What are your plans?
• 36:49
  Do you have any goals that you, you've set for this where you are just flowing with the field?
• 36:55
  A bit of both actually.
• 36:56
  Eh, we, we are, um, you've actually raised a good point.
• 37:00
  We've got a, we've, we've scheduled, well, we've a couple of times now, we've scheduled a goal, um, setting, meeting around, around where we want our work to go.
• 37:09
  Yeah.
• 37:10
  With family balance and what that looks like as a couple.
• 37:13
  Yeah.
• 37:14
  Moving forward, I think at the moment, yeah.
• 37:17
  We, we haven't made any firm plans, but we have ideas.
• 37:21
  Yeah, we'd love to see it progress and, and like Joe was saying earlier, really focusing on, um, or one of the focuses would be on younger generations and yeah.
• 37:32
  Helping, like we said, helping people earlier in life, giving them, you know, just such a Yeah.
• 37:37
  Easier ride.
• 37:38
  And in your younger days, from what I understand, John, you were quite a bit of a, an athlete.
• 37:44
  Yeah.
• 37:45
  Yep.
• 37:46
  Um, yes.
• 37:48
  It's an, it feels like another life away really.
• 37:50
  It's, it's an, it's an angle I'd, I'd like to explore too within, um, constellating actually, you know, peak performance.
• 38:00
  Fantastic.
• 38:01
  Yeah.
• 38:01
  Something, something different.
• 38:03
  So yeah.
• 38:03
  We've got so many little ideas.
• 38:05
  We, yeah, but I, I was actually, but, but I think for me, um, I, I think I was talented.
• 38:12
  There was something about competition though, strangely, that, that, um, I, I didn't sit that well with me.
• 38:19
  Yeah.
• 38:20
  So, so it was, it was interesting.
• 38:22
  Mm-hmm.
• 38:23
  Sometimes our, our loyalty to our families.
• 38:27
  Or our families, um, who've lost everything or, you know, our mothers who couldn't go and do her, her, her dream of becoming a teacher 'cause she has a stay at home mom or those sort of things.
• 38:39
  They keep us unconsciously, keep us from, from living our full potential, don't they?
• 38:44
  So many reasons.
• 38:46
  That's right.
• 38:46
  Uh, yeah.
• 38:47
  For me it would've been a lot of that.
• 38:49
  Um, also, also we talked earlier about a connectedness and energetic connectedness, and I mm-hmm.
• 38:55
  Competition didn't really always fit in that for me.
• 39:00
  Yeah.
• 39:00
  I'm wanting to ask about your animals.
• 39:02
  That's what the field's just asked me.
• 39:04
  Oh, okay.
• 39:05
  What do they want me to ask about the animals?
• 39:08
  About, do they play a part in your work?
• 39:11
  Yeah.
• 39:11
  Yeah.
• 39:11
  Well, we've got three dogs and a cat.
• 39:13
  Um, one dog is ours and the rest belong to our daughter.
• 39:17
  But they all live with us.
• 39:19
  They all live with us.
• 39:20
  And Emily's left home.
• 39:21
  It's interesting you, you say that.
• 39:23
  We do have one particular dog here that likes to be in, in it completely.
• 39:29
  If we shut the dogs away, if we do run a workshop here, we've got a Safari tent.
• 39:33
  And if we do run something here, he'll complain.
• 39:36
  And he's like, I need to be in this.
• 39:38
  Um, but it's interesting.
• 39:40
  You, you say this, I was when I was a little girl.
• 39:42
  Um.
• 39:44
  I think I was, and this, and I've just been writing about it, so it's fascinating.
• 39:48
  When I was about 10, I had an accident on my horse and it was the first time, and I didn't know at the time, but it was one of the fir, well it was the first time that I experienced grief.
• 39:59
  Um, she didn't get put down.
• 40:02
  Thank goodness my parents supported to keep her alive, but she.
• 40:06
  Sprained her ligament.
• 40:07
  So she needed to be turned out and, and, um, luckily she didn't break it and it was that first time.
• 40:13
  For me, it's those little griefs that, that, and it doesn't have to be a human right.
• 40:20
  And, and so for me, the grief around that.
• 40:23
  And I feel it now.
• 40:24
  It's like a piece of work for me moving forward.
• 40:27
  Just that little bit of grief that I've never really dealt with.
• 40:30
  'cause it would traumatize me, you know, like, oh my gosh, my horse.
• 40:34
  And it was a, at a big competition and people are yelling, stop that horse.
• 40:38
  And she still kept going and I didn't even know she was lame and, you know, and then I, and then I jumped off her and she fell and she fell on me.
• 40:45
  And we were both laid on the ground and, you know, and so, so it's those little griefs that.
• 40:51
  Sit in us around that, you know, with our animals and even losing our animals.
• 40:55
  So, yeah.
• 40:56
  So it was interesting that you brought up animals, even though we do have our little circus here.
• 41:01
  But that was, um, quite a big thing for me and something that I, I feel it in my body that it's something that, that little grief, that's actually a big grief.
• 41:11
  Big grief that's sitting in me, that needs needs, that needs a place.
• 41:15
  'cause it, it was traumatizing.
• 41:17
  What does turned out mean?
• 41:20
  So they, um, they retire.
• 41:23
  Oh, right, okay.
• 41:23
  Yeah.
• 41:23
  So she, yeah, sorry.
• 41:25
  So they don't get put down or anything like that.
• 41:27
  She just, um, and she ended up going, getting put into fall, but we gave her back.
• 41:31
  I, we gave her back to her old owners.
• 41:34
  I got, we owned her, but, um, just, yeah.
• 41:37
  So I had to, but I, luckily I had such supportive parents.
• 41:40
  'cause, you know, it was, we need to put this horse down.
• 41:42
  It's like, no.
• 41:43
  Yeah.
• 41:44
  So it's those little griefs in there that, um, that can have such an impact on us.
• 41:49
  Our everyday life.
• 41:51
  Hmm.
• 41:51
  Yeah.
• 41:53
  Yeah.
• 41:53
  I remember it.
• 41:54
  Don't we feel so, yeah.
• 41:57
  So, so the, but the animals don't really have an other than buddy who likes to come out into a space when we're working.
• 42:03
  Um, they don't really play a big part in the work, but, but I think, I think they, from my perspective anyway, that I see the animals as almost teaching people how to love unconditionally.
• 42:15
  Mm-hmm.
• 42:15
  Yeah.
• 42:17
  The, the love that they, they can give and feel from an animal without, without any complications, you know, is, um, you know, for a lot of people that, that might make all the difference in their world.
• 42:29
  Yeah.
• 42:29
  So animals, yeah, they're amazing.
• 42:32
  They play all sorts of roles in their lives.
• 42:34
  Yeah, that's a good point.
• 42:36
  That's a really good point to make, John.
• 42:37
  'cause sometimes when we're working and we're inviting people to maybe.
• 42:43
  The meditation part of it, we might be inviting them to feel unconditional love and, and they might not have ever had that in their human experience with other humans, but I invite people to, sometimes I say, you know, maybe there's an, uh, a baby when you have your babies or there's an animal that you have this love with, and, and you can just see people relax because that's what they teach us.
• 43:05
  You right.
• 43:06
  Absolutely.
• 43:08
  Yeah.
• 43:08
  Yeah.
• 43:09
  I personally, for me, animals played a big part of my life.
• 43:14
  That was my, um, my safe place was to always, and you know, as a little girl I would.
• 43:22
  I tried everything dancing to, oh my gosh, everything Highland dancing.
• 43:27
  And you know, back in those days it was, mom was always, you need to be doing something.
• 43:32
  And I'm just, and I just didn't like anything.
• 43:34
  And then she said to me, would you like a horse?
• 43:37
  And I'm like, okay, if you want me to.
• 43:39
  And my life changed.
• 43:40
  I actually had something that I unconditionally love and it loved me back.
• 43:46
  It was in, yeah.
• 43:47
  And my whole life was around my horse.
• 43:49
  It was beautiful.
• 43:51
  And as a child, I never bless my mom and dad.
• 43:53
  They were incredible.
• 43:55
  Um, but I had a brother that was really unwell, so they, their focus was on that.
• 44:00
  But I, I got to be with my horse every day.
• 44:04
  Yeah.
• 44:04
  Animals are amazing.
• 44:07
  Well, if someone wants to get a hold of you, I know we're gonna put your contact information in the thread below, but I always, um, invite people to share because some people are audible and they like to hear things rather than see it written down.
• 44:20
  How would someone get in touch with you?
• 44:22
  Well, we've got a website, um, www family balance nz.com.
• 44:28
  Um, but we're also on social media.
• 44:32
  Or under Family Balance nz and I mean on our website there's a phone, phone number you can ring, um, text.
• 44:41
  Beautiful.
• 44:41
  And you guys are part of Anki as well, which is, uh, um, and New Zealand Constellation Association.
• 44:48
  So they can always find you on that website.
• 44:51
  Oh, totally.
• 44:52
  I was gonna talk about that when John talked about, you know, the day, the, the day and night retreats.
• 44:57
  Like Anki, I mean the, the intent of that, you know, that the six days, the six days, it's just.
• 45:04
  We get to hang out and you get, you know, it's an incredible, and even I think when we're in Topo the other day, um, at the girls workshop and we all just wanted to stay for a sleepover, you know, it's just kind of, and, and it's just, yeah.
• 45:18
  So.
• 45:19
  Just saying if you wanna come and experience this work, our retreats, if you just wanna do one night, but Anki for six days.
• 45:27
  Yeah.
• 45:27
  And you'll, you, you'll both be presenting at that as well.
• 45:29
  Yeah.
• 45:30
  In April, 2026.
• 45:32
  Yeah.
• 45:33
  Fantastic.
• 45:35
  And yes, we had our first one in and then last one and we'll be back there again.
• 45:42
  It's, um, it's way bigger than we could ever have imagined.
• 45:49
  Uh, Anki has become, yeah, it's just incredible.
• 45:53
  Yeah, I remember when I was mentioning it to you, Joe and Fiona, and Rochelle saying, this is what, you know, I wanna do a intensive, I wanna do, have a conference here.
• 46:02
  And never realized the doors that I'd be opening with that conversation.
• 46:07
  So really grateful that, um, both you and John have been on board in supporting us and, and being part of the journey as we move forward.
• 46:16
  Yeah.
• 46:16
  Amazing.
• 46:17
  And how lucky are we to be held by this beautiful land of, and the culture like we, it's such an honor.
• 46:26
  Hey, we are just, yeah.
• 46:27
  It's incredible.
• 46:28
  Absolutely.
• 46:29
  Yeah.
• 46:29
  Thank you so much guys, for coming along.
• 46:32
  Thank you, Tracy.
• 46:33
  Thank you.
• 46:34
  Been lovely to chat.
• 46:36
  Yeah.
• 46:37
  It's took a little while to get you here.
• 46:39
  We had a few, uh, we had a few, um, things that stopped this from happening, but really glad it's the, it's lined up now and it's, it's a perfect time.
• 46:49
  Trust the field.
• 46:49
  Trust the, yeah, totally right.
• 46:53
  Thank you guys.