Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Si Hart about his choice of Before the Flood

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Talks to Si Hart about his choice of Before the Flood · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:33
Hamster with a blunt pen knife and do it quicker, quicker,
0:41
quicker. Hello, and welcome back to a
0:43
hamster with a Blunt pen knife, the Doctor Who Science Accuracy
0:48
Podcast. My name is Professor Joseph
0:52
Ford. I am here with my glamorous
0:55
assistant, Simone Hart. How are you, Simone?
1:00
I'm very well, thank you. Now, Simone, do you know what a
1:05
bootstrap paradox is? No, tell us.
1:11
I am, and I most certainly will not be consulting the online
1:14
resource Wikipedia, so I never. Doubted it.
1:21
A time travel paradox in which the consequences of an event in
1:25
the future travel back in time and cause an event in the past
1:29
or present, which in turn is among the causes of the first
1:33
event, forming A causal loop in which each event is caused by
1:37
the other. Oh, that makes it quite clear.
1:40
Thank you. You know, if that had the
1:43
synopsis of a Stephen Moffett script, I don't know what is.
1:48
What the fuck does that all mean?
1:51
So basically. Imagine imagine Beethoven's
1:56
Fifth. Yeah, Okay.
1:59
Okay. And someone is a big fan of
2:01
Beethoven, who goes back into the past to talk to Beethoven
2:05
and finds that there was no Beethoven, right?
2:08
And so, because he's such a big fan of the music and he's got
2:12
the music with him, he then becomes Beethoven.
2:18
Because someone has to create the music and then fiction
2:21
stories like this okay. Exactly.
2:23
And this is actually what what the Doctor says in this episode.
2:26
So someone comes back and says, well, Beethoven must have
2:31
existed because I've got the sheet music, but no one here
2:34
knows about it. But I've got the music, so I
2:36
brought it back and got someone else to to play Beethoven and be
2:42
Is it a bit like when Captain Benjamin Cisco goes back in time
2:47
in past tense and becomes that fella of the Bell riots?
2:52
Yes. Oh no, because he dies, doesn't
2:54
he? So he just takes his place.
2:56
Yeah, but it's a sort of similar thing that, yeah, something
3:00
happens and so you become that person.
3:02
And so how does that occur in this episode?
3:05
Because. They go back to before the
3:08
village was flooded and deal with the Fisher King, which then
3:14
sets emotion. All the things because they take
3:18
away the Power Pack, yes, to blow the dam up.
3:22
So that's why the Power Pack is missing that they're
3:24
investigating in part one we see, and the dam floods the
3:30
place, which is why they're underwater in the first episode.
3:33
It's very clever it. Is.
3:37
It's quite mind blowing, actually.
3:39
Maybe because I was so dense was why I didn't enjoy this episode.
3:42
Because now you've explained it to me often.
3:43
That's quite clever. I now retract the statement I
3:47
made at the beginning of this episode.
3:49
I'll start again. Welcome back to A Hamster with a
3:53
Blunt Penknife, the Scientific Accuracy Podcast with Professor
3:58
Simon Hart and his family assistant Josephine Ford.
4:06
I know. I'm just the dumb assistant.
4:09
We've done it. We've done it.
4:10
We've done it. We've done it.
4:13
We've fucking cracked this episode, though.
4:16
Oh wait, we haven't started it yet.
4:18
No, we haven't. And we've got one of one of this
4:21
era's sort of defining things is Peter Capaldi talking to the
4:26
audience. I don't like it so much.
4:29
Do you like it? Well, I don't.
4:34
It's. He does it so well that it's
4:39
quite likeable, but it's very different Doctor Who to any.
4:46
This doesn't happen anywhere else other than Tom looking at
4:49
down the camera and saying even the Sonic Who driver would Get
4:52
Me Out of this one. It's another factor of the year,
4:56
though, is that the cliffhanger isn't resolved and we pick up
5:00
somewhere completely different. Yes, I find that very annoying.
5:05
Yes, because that's not what we're used to.
5:09
It can work really well and there are sometimes when Moffett
5:13
does it particularly well. But then when everything goes
5:17
down that route, you're like, I do just want a linear story
5:20
sometimes. And and it's interesting, isn't
5:25
it, that other writers in the Moffett era pick up on that
5:30
Moffett thing and end up doing that and.
5:34
Sometimes you wonder how much Steven has been involved in
5:39
plotting of these stories with the authors, with the other
5:42
authors, because it ends up being like that, or whether the
5:46
other authors are doing it so that it keeps Steven happy.
5:50
Yeah, because I noticed with who wrote the girl who waited.
5:56
That is, that was someone has written before, isn't it?
6:02
Yeah, it was the oh, what's his name?
6:04
Who did Rise of the Cybermen? Oh, Tom McRae, yeah.
6:08
Tom McRae and Wit House as well, and I think all of these they
6:11
adopted, stop. The one person who doesn't is
6:13
Mark Gatiss. I think Margate is just right.
6:15
It just writes Mark Gates is Doctor Who, which is why they
6:17
feel like these weird traditional episodes amongst all
6:21
this madness. But in but the Peter Cabaldis
6:26
Dr. addressing the audience. What I feel is like it's a very
6:32
Sherlock thing isn't it? Of Sherlock Hut's in those shows
6:39
talking, looking down the camera and talking at you and being
6:42
very clever and being just as insufferable when Benedict
6:45
Cumberbatch does it to me as well.
6:48
So, and it's a level of artifice, because who's he
6:51
talking to? Well, yeah.
6:56
Or is he talking to himself? But, but we get it because it
7:02
works so well at the start of listen that they then do it
7:04
again. And again and again.
7:07
Yeah, and to the point where it's at its most insufferable,
7:11
That agonizingly long speech in the TARDIS before he regenerates
7:15
avocado pears and all that bullshit.
7:19
Just get on with it. Why don't you just die?
7:23
Mind you, I felt that way about tennity.
7:25
He's my favorite. Yeah.
7:26
Well, yeah. On and on and on, and then came
7:30
back twice. Yeah, it's not getting bad
7:34
smell, the dog said. It never goes away really well.
7:39
Look, Okay, shall we go into episode two?
7:41
I think there might be some interesting things to unpick
7:43
here. I think there might be.
7:45
And the, you know, the third love of our life, Fraser
7:48
Gregory, has got some questions. He's going. 20 questions,
7:51
They're 20. No, not quite.
7:54
On this there's a lot. Is there a snog memory?
7:58
Yeah, Okay, let's play and do that one first.
8:02
Okay, right. So I came to see.
8:04
Yes, please. Let's see, 54321 let's go before
8:12
the floods. It's a bit of previously going
8:17
on here. The nice thing about this
8:20
episode being so different from the first is it doesn't fall
8:24
down that Moffett trap of the previously on spelling out the
8:29
conclusion. No, because you don't know where
8:32
this is going at the wedding of River Song.
8:34
Earlier. Earlier, sorry.
8:36
Earlier this week, and I'll tell you now, the pre titles was all
8:39
the test select to this. The test select to that.
8:42
When it came to you know, how did the doctor not die?
8:45
Well, it was pointed out in the first 30 seconds.
8:51
OK, are you gonna do his snob marry voice?
8:53
OK, so snob marry a snob marry trick into standing underneath
9:00
and exploding. Damn, who's Fisher King?
9:04
Terry Gilliam's Fisher King or Beatrix Potter's Jeremy Fisher.
9:09
He's so good at that. He is.
9:12
I don't know who the other two are.
9:15
Oh, I'm going to oh, it's a terrible costume.
9:18
So I'm going to put Doctor Who's Fisher King in front of the
9:20
water as he is. He sort of wobbles as he walks
9:23
about. He's too, too.
9:25
The costume is too tall for the actor.
9:28
Enid Blyton. I'll snog.
9:30
And Terry Gilliam, I'll marry. Yeah, well, Terry Gilliam's
9:34
Fisher King was a great film, so I haven't seen that for years.
9:37
I should watch that again. Who was that Fisher King?
9:41
Can't remember who was in that field.
9:43
I haven't seen it for a very long time.
9:45
I remember liking it at the time.
9:46
Will assume that anyone in a Nina Blighted book is just love.
9:50
Is Beatrix Potter? Oh, even Beatrix Potter.
9:53
Even better. Oh my God, Peter Capaldi is
9:58
looking straight at me. He is right into your eyes.
10:03
That's scarier than the Cliff. So what do you think of the
10:07
guitar? Why do you ask me questions like
10:10
that? Because I want to say I really
10:15
don't like it. Neither do I.
10:17
I'll tell you something, right? Yeah.
10:18
When my marriage came to an end, I effectively had my midlife
10:23
crisis. Yeah, I had 2 1/2 years where I
10:26
shagged every single bloke I possibly could in the planet.
10:28
That is what Peter Capaldi is doing in series nine with his
10:32
shades and his guitar and all of this.
10:34
It's midlife crisis, Doctor. But the.
10:38
The guitar in this theme makes it so much better and they
10:42
should have kept it. Oh, I don't remember it being
10:45
there, do you know? Oh yeah.
10:46
Oh no, no, it's really, it's much better.
10:49
But because we've got the but you know what?
10:52
One thing I don't think Doctor Who should deliberately do is
10:55
try to be hip. No.
10:58
Like, I feel like some people are just effortlessly cool.
11:01
Yeah, Judy Gatwa. Every single scene with him will
11:04
be effortlessly cool because he exudes it.
11:08
I told you now he's an amazing actor.
11:11
He is not cool. You know he's not with it.
11:16
No. So you didn't like him standing
11:19
on a tank playing the guitar? That for me is some of the worst
11:23
scenes in the new series. It is.
11:29
It's just a load of quirky shit to prevent the plot actually
11:33
starting in that episode. I want to look we're on
11:39
location. We are.
11:41
Look, we're outside. It's very blue.
11:43
I see what you mean about the grading.
11:45
It doesn't. It is very, very Gray and grim.
11:48
And isn't it supposed to be in the Soviet though?
11:50
No. No, no, it's actually in
11:52
Scotland and it's it's even worse.
11:56
The Scotland's not like that. Excuse me, I've been to Scotland
12:00
five times. Every single time I was there,
12:03
it was raining. Oh, when I when I went in 2012
12:07
it we had a freaky wave. Scotland is sunny to me and
12:12
beautiful. The weird thing about it, that
12:15
sort of rugged landscape in Scotland, is that it doesn't
12:19
matter if it's raining is beautiful.
12:21
Yeah, exactly. Everywhere you go is beautiful.
12:23
However, I do believe this might be Cardiff.
12:27
It's definitely Wales, which is as grim as Scotland.
12:33
Scotland. Do we even go to Scotland?
12:36
Doctor Who has Well, it's been to Scotland, but it's never
12:40
filmed in Scotland. You've been to Sussex, Scotland.
12:43
You've been to hardith Scotland in tooth and claw.
12:48
I think Mark Doddick and Dave Rennie must be feeling a bit
12:51
pissed off. They must be, yeah.
12:53
They need Doctor Who locations to go and visit.
12:56
Finally Scotland's in oh wait, you're not gonna.
13:01
I think it's just too expensive to get there, you know?
13:03
Yeah, it's a long way. So.
13:07
So what is this base then? So this is so we're in 1980.
13:13
It's the height of the Cold War or at least some Cold Warish.
13:16
So they've created a village that looks like a Soviet
13:19
village, sort of get in the mindset of Russians, I think
13:24
and. So use it sort of almost like an
13:28
Army base where they could go in and sort of potential attack.
13:31
It's a very sort of New Avengers kind of thing where they would
13:35
have a village that sort of was used for army practice and spy
13:41
practice and things like that. Bloody Love the first series of
13:44
the New Avengers when she was in that window and her pajamas were
13:50
falling down. That's all the best.
13:53
He's biggest offer now music. Yeah, the.
14:04
Eagle's Nest is one of my favorite episodes of The
14:06
Avengers. That that's like the one with
14:08
the giant rat Norse. Yeah, That's great.
14:10
Do you remember the one with the birds?
14:12
Cat amongst the pigs? Oh yes, in the table and they're
14:15
poking some scissors through it. Amazing.
14:20
Oh, sorry. Back to before the flood.
14:22
It's Paul Kay who's? So he was.
14:26
He was. He was a comedian for a while,
14:30
so he played a character called Dennis Pennis.
14:34
Oh, is he? Yeah.
14:36
Who used to turn up at film premieres and annoy people.
14:39
And yeah, I remember he can't really tell underneath all that
14:43
latex. No, he's actually turned out to
14:46
be a really great actor. I think that's terrific makeup.
14:50
Yeah, it's really, really good, isn't it?
14:52
I do like the fact they've taken that very scary Undertaker ghost
14:58
and then made him a comic character in this, so that's
15:01
quite nice. Exactly.
15:04
So he's a Tivoli. And again, as we discussed in
15:08
the last episode, like David volumes his character in the God
15:12
Complex. So it's Toby wit House bringing
15:13
his creations back again. How we ever hear from them
15:17
again, though, do we? I don't think so, because Toby
15:19
Wit House doesn't do another story with them.
15:21
So yeah, that's there's only a few that stick, isn't there, in
15:25
the new series. Yeah.
15:26
You the Angels, Did you do? Yeah.
15:32
Oh. So basically, Rosty Davis here.
15:34
A monster. Yes.
15:37
The silence. No.
15:40
Well, there was 1 appearance in that prison, wasn't there in?
15:42
There was Yeah, that's right. But that's not really much, is
15:46
it? No.
15:47
I would have liked the patina to go on and on.
15:53
Put in Nibbler from Futurama and Doctor Who.
15:56
Going So, Fraser asks, should director Daniel O'Hara have
16:02
returned for another story? I don't think so.
16:06
No, I do. Like, I imagine this being
16:10
directed by Harper or Talayle or something like that.
16:14
I think we keep using that competent.
16:16
It is well directed but I think it could have been brilliantly
16:21
directed. It's nothing special, is it?
16:24
He's good on the pace and there isn't much pace to it.
16:28
There's there's a couple of running around teams, but
16:31
there's a lot of talking as well.
16:33
Yeah. But there's nothing outstanding
16:37
here. I mean, I'd just go go as far as
16:40
to say I think the lighting is better than the direction.
16:42
The lighting does a lot. Yeah, lighting is really, really
16:45
good. And like again in comparison
16:49
with The Impossible Planet, which was directed by James
16:53
Horse James. Strong, James, Strong, Sorry.
16:55
What is it you call it? Reassuringly expensive.
16:57
James Strong, who can find the most expensive way to shoot
17:00
something. And I just remember lots of
17:02
edits, lots of cuts in the scenes, you know?
17:05
This is much slower. It always felt positive.
17:09
We can pacey in that. Whereas yeah, you're right this
17:13
it's sedate. Yes.
17:17
I'm not sure a thriller should be sedate, you know?
17:21
Yeah, it's it's it's atmospheric but it's not it's not top, it's
17:28
not top flight direction. This trouble is I think you can
17:31
sort of point at anything. Like I just saw amazing low
17:33
angle shot of Capote with that. Brilliant central console
17:37
ceiling behind it, and that's a great shot.
17:41
But I think, I think, I think does.
17:43
Does individual shots make a fantastic hole?
17:47
Not really, no. But it's weird, you know,
17:51
because you look at what it's time, and apart from Tullele and
17:56
a few others, no one really sticks.
17:59
No, the What's his Name? Who directs the God complex?
18:03
Is it Nick Haran He does 3 or 4 doesn't?
18:06
He Yeah, he. And he does The Day of the
18:08
Doctor, which is very, very well directed.
18:12
Belaru does. Pandora opens, Big Bang.
18:14
And Chris? Cody Haynes?
18:16
Then he's Dom. Yep, and Soul Metstein.
18:20
And he can only get to Layla a couple of times a year, so he.
18:23
He gets the big story, yeah. Can he?
18:26
He can't quite keep them. No.
18:28
Well, it's think of Brussels time.
18:30
Urus Lynn Graham Harper. Who else?
18:33
James Strong. Oh, and in the first year,
18:37
What's his name in the first year, darling, you know.
18:41
And James Halls, So the ones that are there, they're in it,
18:43
you know they're. Yeah.
18:48
And then there are a lot of one shot directors as well, like the
18:51
feller who did nightmare in silver or feller who did widow
18:56
in the wardrobe and the rings of akatin, you know where they just
18:59
do one or two. Yeah.
19:01
And they yeah. Just just don't come back.
19:07
It's like J&T now. J&T just kept all the old farts
19:13
around, didn't he? Ron Jones and people like that.
19:19
Okay, What else have you got for us?
19:21
Come on all. Right.
19:23
What have we got? Can you do it in a Fraser
19:27
accent, please? No, because it can kill me.
19:33
Okay. Where does this rank with Toby
19:36
Whithouse's other stories for Doctor Who?
19:40
I think we sort of covered that last episode, didn't we?
19:43
Yeah. Where it's sort of somewhere mid
19:46
table for me. I've the top tier is a draw 3
19:51
way draw school reunion, A Town Called Mercy the God Complex and
19:57
then everything else. Oh sorry.
20:01
Lie at the lads, right at the. Bottom right at the bottom.
20:03
And yeah, Vampires of Venice and this sort of mid table.
20:07
Yeah. Yeah.
20:09
I think that's fair. You know this whole thing about
20:12
the Doctor being a skeleton? Yeah, yeah.
20:17
Is that a trick? Yes.
20:19
Well, he never was, no. Is it just a projection then?
20:24
Is it? Yeah, he it's a it's a hologram
20:27
projected by the Sonic Sonic glasses.
20:31
And he's actually in the freezer.
20:33
Satisfying. Well, it's clever.
20:38
Actually, when I was watching it earlier in the week, I've I've
20:41
gotten that twist and so I thought, well that's quite good
20:45
isn't it? It doesn't mean the cliffhanger
20:46
means nothing though. Doesn't it?
20:48
Well, that's always a problem. There's so many cliffhangers
20:51
that mean nothing, but it's a good, it's a good image that
20:56
stays in your mind for the the whole week.
20:59
Doctor Who as a ghost. I could see it in my mind's eye,
21:07
and if there were any children watching at this point in the
21:10
show's history, then I'm not sure they were then that would
21:14
be a memorable image, I think, from this era.
21:18
Their parents got to don't cremate me and went no, no, in
21:22
fact, Fraser's. 3 anchors got to into the Dalek and she said no.
21:29
It was telling people off, I think, not the fans.
21:32
I think the fans got gobbled. This stuff.
21:34
I think the fans love this. I see so much so many people who
21:40
who absolutely adore this era, sort of above all the others, I
21:45
think, because it is, as we said in the first episode, people
21:48
want Doctor Who to be dark. But The thing is, something very
21:51
pertinent that Gary Russell said in one of my commentaries is you
21:55
don't want to fit, please, just the fans.
21:57
Because that is about 50,000 people exactly do not want an
22:01
audience of 50,000. You want an audience of sort of
22:04
5 million, you know, and this is one of the things I think
22:08
sometimes the makes of Doctor Who forget is that every so
22:12
often I think we've touched on this or someone has touched on
22:15
this on a hamster because you've done so many someone's bound to
22:17
have said this. You need to remember that every
22:20
sort of three or four years you've got the next intake of
22:23
children. And so you want a Doctor Who
22:26
that will appeal to them. And what are you doing to bring
22:29
the children? And this is something that that
22:32
that sometimes 80s Doctor Who forgot was that you need to do
22:37
something, something that brings the next generation right in.
22:42
And they're they're becoming fans.
22:43
And I think the Doctor Who through the 60s and 70s was very
22:47
good at having those stories or or eras where it was a jumping
22:53
on points. That was a perfect place to
22:55
start. And I'm not sure the Capote era
23:00
was a place for new children to start watching Doctor Who at
23:03
all. To have terrible nightmares,
23:05
maybe. I think terrorist Dick said it
23:07
best, didn't he? I comment what commentary is on.
23:10
He goes you don't want to make it for the fans because they're
23:12
going to watch it anyway. Exactly.
23:14
You make it for everybody else and you know, I'm going to say
23:16
something quite broad now, then you might disagree with this.
23:19
I think Russell did that brilliantly.
23:21
I think he made the show accessible for children while
23:23
still being very dark at times. He didn't forget the sort of
23:27
puerile comedy that kids loved. You know, the fans hated it, but
23:31
the kids loved it. I think.
23:36
Remember I was speaking generally.
23:37
This isn't everybody. I think Moffett did lose the
23:39
kids and then I think lost more. I think they brought in
23:45
different audiences though. I think Moffett brought in those
23:48
that liked initially like the fairy tale stuff and then people
23:51
that like the darker stuff. And I think Chiba's era
23:54
certainly brought in a higher question of women.
23:59
Yeah, so there was, there was new people coming to those eras.
24:02
I'm wondering if this next era will be when a lot of the kids
24:07
come back. I still love a farting alien.
24:15
I still love a burping bin. Oh, I roared with laughter at
24:20
that in the first I went online and everyone was cringing about
24:24
that and I just remember, Oh no, I loved it.
24:26
I thought that was perfect. But like, the idea is they win
24:31
back politicians. That's the idea, Absolutely.
24:34
I was like, is this all going over your heads, people?
24:38
I do like these locations that they've got here.
24:41
It's good, isn't it? It's a a good location for
24:44
hiding and things being yeah, and being round corners and
24:50
monsters coming round the corner.
24:52
It's a house set up in a distressed building, so there's
24:57
like a discordance to it, isn't there?
24:58
So if, yeah, and a sort of tired industrial area is a good
25:04
setting for a Doctor Who adventure.
25:07
Look at me. I'm about to follow a compliment
25:08
with an insult, so I don't know who that woman is.
25:11
Who is that woman? That's one of the women from the
25:14
base. You don't know who she is?
25:18
No what. Even before, very tellingly
25:21
before the episode, we we we started the commentary.
25:26
I got IMDb up because I couldn't remember the names of the
25:30
characters because apart from Cass who's the only one, and
25:34
Princess who was the the undertaker and the others, I
25:39
have no idea what the names are. How many names of the characters
25:42
in The Impossible Planet? Oh Zachary cross flames Scooty,
25:48
the other woman whose name is now escaped me.
25:50
But who was really lovely. I just got Mr. Jefferson.
25:54
Your favorite? The sexy one?
25:55
Yeah. Toby Z.
25:56
There you go. I know them.
25:59
Yeah. Instantly, I could tell you the
26:00
names of all the characters in The Waters of Mars, you know?
26:02
Yeah. So there is a skill to this, I
26:05
think. Yeah, and the because the
26:08
characters are are quite generic and samey, none of them stand
26:14
out and so the the ones who do stand out are the ones who are
26:18
are slightly different. Do you know I'm going to throw a
26:21
compliment now Dave Rennie's going to get a hard on listening
26:24
to this if you're there. Dave, prepare yourself for this.
26:27
All right, it is. I could name every character in
26:31
the gang as two-part and they are vividly drawn.
26:34
I don't like any of them. I think they're all no, you
26:36
don't have to like them, but they're all well.
26:38
Drawn. I remember them, though.
26:40
That horrendous woman with an elongated head, the Scottish
26:45
feller who went on to for Big Finish.
26:47
You know, all of them, Yeah. There is a skill to this, yeah.
26:53
And again, they're all very well played.
26:58
They're all good actors, no one is bad, but none of them are
27:02
particularly memorable. I think you see what we're
27:06
saying here, isn't it? He just said I'm changing
27:09
history to save Clara. That's going to become very
27:12
important this season, it is. You know, which leads me to to
27:16
another question from Fraser. Oh, go on it says.
27:29
Yes. Moffett tends to have layers
27:22
with his series. I E Series eight, we have The
27:24
Tragedy of Danny Pink as the Ark with the Am I.
27:29
Tragedy that he existed in the 1st place with the Am I a good
27:34
man as an overall theme. If the hybrid is the ark of
27:37
Series 9, what do you think the theme of series 9 is?
27:42
I think it's the danger of traveling with the Doctor.
27:49
And that becoming addictive? No, that's that's what Fraser
27:53
says. For me, it's the Doctor faces
27:54
the consequences of his actions and Clara finally becoming the
27:58
Doctor. Yeah, my trouble with it is it
28:01
doesn't feel seeded. We've had no hint of it before,
28:05
and I honestly don't really believe that Clara would be that
28:08
person, no. So it doesn't work, but it
28:13
that's the thing. But it is there, yes.
28:15
Yeah. What?
28:16
And then do you know what I really hate?
28:17
Sorry, I'm sorry. I'm going back on sort of
28:19
Conversation Series 9. Now, what I really hate is the
28:22
perverse characterization of the Doctor in hell.
28:26
Ben, who's willing to tear down the entire universe to save
28:31
Clara fucking Oswald. Like there was a time when
28:35
Companions died and he went, oh, that's really sad.
28:38
Let's go to the Great Exhibition, yes.
28:41
How did we get from there to exactly?
28:44
And how is this a better approach?
28:48
It's not, it's no. And this is the reason why
28:51
people have an issue with their companions in the Chibbers era.
28:54
It's because everything was taken so fucking operatic before
28:58
that actually. You just want to bring it down
29:00
and they're just ordinary people who are traveling with the
29:04
Doctor. And it's almost like going back
29:07
to the classic series where it's ordinary people that the Doctor
29:10
meets who he or she happened to quite like.
29:15
Belief in it. It's like, yeah, what it is.
29:18
But I just don't understand how the Doctor would ever get into
29:23
the mindset of saying that the universe is less important than
29:28
Clara. Yeah, it's.
29:34
I love my mark, yeah. I love him to pieces.
29:37
But you're not going to tear the universe down.
29:39
I would. Blow up the world.
29:43
Get everybody. It's this thing of the Doctor
29:50
being a mythic, epic character. I think that's it.
29:55
And you know, I've said it before, and I'll people said I
30:01
preferred it when the Doctor was a talented amateur who ran away
30:04
from Gallifrey because he was bored, Because Time was bored.
30:08
Improviser, Yeah, And muddled through, and I think that's far
30:14
more satisfying than a lonely God or the I like him being.
30:19
The last of the time was I loved him tearing down Doctor Who
30:22
mythology. But then that becomes a burden
30:24
as well because you end up being I'm just the last that I'm but I
30:30
was a God and my people were were mythical and and all of
30:33
this and I think it's just. It's hard in it.
30:36
And then you get you usually get the best of these new serious
30:39
doctors when they push away from that bullshit.
30:41
Like 10 in in the Unicorn of the Wasp who just blazes in.
30:45
That is brilliant. No hint of that last man safe in
30:49
the doctor's wife, you know? Absolutely.
30:51
When there's there's none of that and it's it all stems from
30:56
the 1990s and the new adventures where that where a.
30:59
Lot of damage, yeah. Where where the fans who were in
31:03
their 20s who were writing Doctor Who were I think slightly
31:07
embarrassed that it was Doctor Who that they loved.
31:10
And so they had to recreate the the Doctor into this mythical
31:15
character who was tearing down time and was times champion and
31:20
all of these big things that the Doctor had never been based on.
31:23
A couple of lines that were throwaway lines to create a bit
31:26
of mystery in the McCoy era. And then suddenly that sticks.
31:30
Did you like any of that? At the time?
31:33
I bought into all of that because I was.
31:36
I was what the new adventures came out sort of for me, between
31:41
the ages of 16 and 22 or whatever, you know?
31:46
And that's the perfect time for all of that guff, you know, And
31:51
you buy into all of that because, yeah, because this is
31:54
what you want Doctor Who to be like.
31:55
You want it to be like everything else.
31:57
And then suddenly you forget that.
31:59
Actually, Doctor Who is far better when it's when it's just
32:04
Doctor Who. See, I I hated it and I I I put
32:09
books down like warlock and things like that where and
32:13
damaged goods and things where the doctors treating his
32:15
companions like employees. And is doing terrible things and
32:21
and and actively sort of torturing people and all this.
32:24
I'm like what is this? I rejected it out.
32:28
I've got back to it now and I recognize it influences a lot of
32:30
this in the new series in a positive way as well.
32:34
Let's not forget that, because a lot of those new adventures
32:37
stroke Big Finish writers sees series one in a very positive
32:43
way. Yeah, but it's that was that
32:47
whole thing I think also of sort of the need that sometimes you
32:53
equate drama with being miserable and they and so many
33:00
of the books went out and out to make ex companions lives the
33:04
most miserable thing after the Doctor had gone.
33:08
Even Joe Grant got a miserable divorce and it was awful.
33:15
Why? Why can't you let people be
33:17
happy? That's why, and I know it appals
33:19
some people. That's why I love it in the
33:21
Vanquishers, where Jody Whitkins staring this watch in the face
33:26
and it's like it offers all this angst and drama and all of this.
33:30
And she goes, I like it. Why?
33:33
Fuck it. I'm going to go and have some
33:35
adventures, yeah. I think that is a really great
33:39
piece of writing, to be honest, because it keeps it there
33:44
because the minute you open it then all the mystery's gone, you
33:49
know? But it's also very telling that
33:50
we're not discussing the story that we watch.
33:53
It's Fraser's question that took us here.
33:55
You know it is, yes. I blame you, Fraser.
33:58
I'm going to say two things then to you.
33:59
One, I'm going to say there was a brilliant jump scare a minute
34:01
ago where Clara was looking out of the window.
34:04
A porthole and a ghost popped up and that was a good jump scare.
34:09
And dogs who don't usually get a lot of those, right?
34:11
So that was great. My second thing is this Fisher
34:14
King right? In silhouette, in the dark.
34:18
Bravo, don't show it. When he comes out into the light
34:24
and. It's the worst costume in the
34:28
new series, I think, and and they get Britain's tallest man
34:32
to play him. I know, but it's like, why
34:35
didn't someone say to drink? No, no, keep him in the dark.
34:37
It's working exactly. And that's the mark of a good
34:41
director who could recognize that and say, well, actually
34:44
we'll just show bits of this and we don't need to ever sit quite
34:48
see the whole thing. Have we gone past the best
34:51
sequence of the whole thing yet where the ax is scraping along
34:54
the floor? I don't know.
34:57
I can't remember where that happens.
34:59
I think we might have had that. A lovely deaf lady can't hear
35:02
it. Yeah, I remember watching that
35:03
and screaming at the telly. It's behind you.
35:05
Me too. Yeah.
35:07
So there are things this gets right.
35:09
Yeah, that's where you're engaged.
35:11
Oh my God, look at these 3 ghosts.
35:16
All getting very close. Great.
35:18
Hot man, Because that's exactly what I'll be doing as well.
35:22
You know, you've noticed he's got some sort of hair poking out
35:25
of his tshirt. Yeah, I've just seen that.
35:27
And he's a bit sweaty and a bit. I'll tear that tshirt.
35:30
Oh, sorry, go ask the question. So Fraser also asks who gives
35:37
the best turn as the Fisher King.
35:39
So we've got Peter Sarafinovich as the voice.
35:43
We've got Neil Fingleton as the body and we've got Corey Taylor
35:49
from Slipknot as the role. Is that right?
35:54
Yes. Three people doing that.
35:56
So what? The voice, the role and the
35:59
body? I think the body fails because
36:04
even if he is Britain's tallest man, it still made the costume
36:07
too tall. I mean, I think the role is
36:11
quite effective, isn't it? Yeah, I think so.
36:15
Well, good and pizza. Sir Finovich is is brilliant,
36:18
but he does great voice work. I seem to remember it's a very
36:21
deep voice. Sign does, yes, very deep.
36:26
Can I ask you, what's the Fisher King up to then?
36:28
What's he doing? What's he want?
36:30
What's his motive? Right, they're just explaining
36:36
it on screen now. Why?
36:38
He just wants to survive. And you will do nothing to stop
36:42
this. The mask is pretty good, yeah.
36:46
See, the costume is good, but it's just a bit.
36:50
Like many a classic Like the Ergon, yeah.
36:54
Don't move. You know, you look it, it looked
36:58
really it was, I think it was at the Worlds of Wonder exhibition
37:03
in in Edinburgh that I went to at the start of the year and
37:07
it's a really impressive costume but just doesn't quite work on
37:12
location. You and I saw the Garm in that
37:15
we did see the Garmin. Yes, and lit in that scary
37:19
lighting in sort of, yeah. I mean, you look a bit pot
37:23
bellied. But you look scary, yeah?
37:26
You know, now Fraser's got a hard on we're making everyone
37:29
turned on in this one. But this, this conversation here
37:34
where he's talking about the where the Fish King is talking
37:36
about the Time Lords. It's basically reprising what
37:40
Mr. Finch says in in School reunion, where it's like Time
37:46
Lords. I thought they were dusty
37:48
senators, but you're something different.
37:51
It's exactly the same. But I I think an actual actor
37:55
saying the lines versus an immobile costume saying that.
38:01
You can get a relationship with another actor I that that scene
38:05
across the swimming pool is phenomenally good, and it's two
38:09
actors who know exactly how to do this facing off against each
38:14
other. I did that one with Lucy McCall.
38:16
You know, that would have had a perfect one for you and me.
38:20
Oh well, we'll do it again. I listened to Lucy talking about
38:23
that. I love that.
38:25
That was a really great commentary.
38:26
Hello, Lucy. She's always.
38:28
Hello, Lucy. Well, we should do that as a
38:30
prelude to The Sarah Jane Adventures, shouldn't we?
38:33
That's a good idea. I know we've done the pilot
38:34
already, but we go back in time and do it before we've done it.
38:40
Great recording as well, Paul. Clara now has just lost amongst
38:44
the corridors. She ain't got much.
38:46
She's having a bit of a companion moment of I was just a
38:49
bit where she's going to hit where we can't hear the axe.
38:53
Yeah, and there's no music, so no.
38:56
And that someone's turned Murray Gold off.
38:58
The the scraping of the act. Yeah, here we go.
39:01
Yeah, we've got the metallic scraping.
39:03
The subtitles say now, so. And they wisely chose this
39:06
actor, the guy in the tank top, the muscles.
39:09
He's physically imposing. Yeah, and you know, and she
39:13
looks genuinely scared. Yeah, it's really, really well
39:18
done. Yeah, you could almost.
39:19
You always want to take this scene out of this, yeah?
39:23
And so this belongs in something better because this is really
39:28
good. Yeah, I mean, look at that in
39:30
silhouette. Capaldi and the creature?
39:32
Oh no, now he's walking, but it's struggling.
39:35
Those scenes of Capaldi looking up.
39:38
I'm just demonstrating this on camera.
39:41
And I'm demonstrating taking a picture now because there's
39:43
photographs of that. That silhouette of great image
39:46
isn't? It, yeah.
39:48
And I even quite like his gaping Moors opening.
39:50
You know what they're called? What's these called?
39:56
Face flaps. Disgusting, didn't it?
40:03
So what? So he's a refugee, is he?
40:05
Or he's just there, waiting for his people to come pick him up.
40:08
I think they thought he was dead because it's a hearse, isn't it?
40:16
But he wasn't dead and he's come back to life or see.
40:22
I don't know. I don't know.
40:25
It's not. Good.
40:25
And yet, if I asked you to detail the plot of The
40:27
Impossible Planet, you could tell me that it was a prison for
40:33
the devil creature and he's trying to escape.
40:36
Nice and simple. Yeah, well, the Doctor saying
40:39
here, you bet the rules of life and death.
40:42
So he's obviously pretended to be dead and it wasn't really.
40:46
Was he on the run from his people then?
40:47
Was he? I'm sure he's just if you if
40:53
you've know the plot of this story, please write in on
40:55
Twitter and tell us, because we don't know.
40:58
And I've seen this about five times.
41:00
I know that that's the worst way I've watched this, more than any
41:02
other story this year. And I still don't know it.
41:05
I. Think some plots stick, don't
41:07
they? And others, yeah.
41:08
And some, just a bit, yeah. Classic who we know inside out
41:11
and back to front because we've been examining those for years.
41:13
The new series, I think, is the one who love unknowable stuff.
41:19
Absolutely. Oh, there we go.
41:23
Act scraping time. Yeah, this could be in a horror
41:27
movie, couldn't it? It could.
41:28
It's, yeah. It's right behind you.
41:31
Don't stop the clever. She can feel the vibrations and
41:36
so she's using her skills. And then they it's really great.
41:42
That's brilliant. I love that.
41:46
That's that's. It just gives her massive agents
41:52
and it allows her to use her disability as a huge strength
41:57
and she is one of the few characters from that that team
42:03
in the base who's actually got any agency and character.
42:07
How? Brilliant, would it be right,
42:10
say the the deaf lady and the interpreter then went on to be
42:15
the companions. Yeah, wouldn't that be brilliant
42:18
that now that's proper representation.
42:21
And then tell a story that really leans into that, like
42:25
Buffy's Hush, where you can talk and it's all about communication
42:30
or something like that. Now that would just be something
42:32
really bold, wouldn't it? Absolutely.
42:34
I mean that's like I always thought sort of one of the the
42:40
great things big finished it in that that early Doctor Who range
42:43
was doing a story about an audio monster because that made
42:46
perfect sense because you're listening and you're having to
42:49
pay attention and an audio monster that is editing the
42:53
audio around you is a great. The sad truth about They Finish
42:56
is they very rarely do stories that could only be told on
43:00
audio. That's exactly what they should
43:03
be doing. Yeah, they could do more of
43:05
that, and you could do some really clever.
43:09
Things because novels. Sigh.
43:10
We've been to Big Finish. We've been everywhere today
43:13
except. You know, I've got to say, you
43:16
ever been to, you know, those people that sort of get dressed
43:18
up in outrageous Dungeons and Dragons costumes and things like
43:21
this and go out into fields and fight each other?
43:24
Yeah, my, my best friend Gareth does that.
43:27
Well, that's what this fellow looks like here.
43:29
It's exactly the same kind of costumes.
43:33
Oh, this is quite spectacular. This is good, isn't it?
43:35
Yeah, this is nicely done I think.
43:38
It reminds me of the end of Doctor Who The Burning though,
43:41
which I've recently read. Oh yes, with a dam bursting with
43:44
the water to solve the problem. And actually, I hate to say it,
43:49
but I think it was used better there.
43:52
Yeah, well, you you've got the water against the fire, which
43:55
makes perfect sense. It's elemental.
43:57
Sigh. Poor old May Smith.
44:02
Oh, that's right. They all get in the coffin,
44:03
don't they? No, no they don't.
44:05
Because it opens and the there's someone in it who we're not.
44:11
Expecting, I do think, all CGI dates.
44:14
However, I do think that is spectacular enough to tell this
44:18
story. Pretty good still, doesn't it?
44:20
Yeah, I think it's when when it pushes him over, it's very
44:24
funny. Watch this.
44:25
Oh my God it. Gets wept away.
44:32
Dear God, I'm not sure the most fierce and monster in the story
44:35
is supposed to be that funny. Oh dear God, that was hilarious.
44:41
That was the funniest bit in the story.
44:42
There's not a lot of humor in this story.
44:48
That was fucking hilarious. That was uncanny.
44:57
Well done. Oh my God.
44:59
You got anything else from Fraser?
45:01
Oh yeah, probably. I'll get through them all.
45:08
Oh, is this a massive step forward in disability
45:12
representation afforded by Cass Sophie Stone?
45:16
Is it undone by turning her into Daredevil at the end?
45:21
Daredevil. I'm not quite sure what he
45:25
means, but. Right.
45:28
So what do you mean it? Is a massive step forward for
45:34
representation. Yes, we need some more, less.
45:37
Make them the companions. There we go.
45:42
Well, I think it's amazing because we're going to get, I
45:44
want to call her Hebe because that's who she plays in The Big
45:46
Finish or Ruth Madly in the new series.
45:51
And she's obviously a wheelchair user and she's going to have a
45:54
big role. So I feel like there's going to
45:56
be some really great representation coming out.
46:00
Across the board as well, I think Russell Davis knows he
46:03
can. He can do it all now, you know.
46:06
He can do whatever he wants. You know, he wasn't bold enough
46:10
to have two men, two smoking hot men, snogging in the TARDIS, was
46:14
he? No.
46:15
No he wasn't. And to make them a fairly normal
46:18
couple. I love that part of the episode.
46:23
Any thoughts from him? That's it.
46:25
We've done all his questions well.
46:27
Thank you. Fraser, you thank you as always.
46:30
As ever, your questions are the highlight of any recording and
46:37
what's occurring now. So now UNIT are going to collect
46:42
the Faraday cage and drop it into space.
46:45
That's lazy. I'm sorry, that is that unit
46:47
coming in to say today is a bit lazy and they'll eventually
46:54
dissipate. Yeah.
46:59
So, but we get some relationship stuff now, don't we?
47:01
We do. Yeah.
47:02
So. So he's mourning the woman that
47:04
he loved that is dead. O'Donnell Okay.
47:12
And so. But then he's going to force the
47:17
other two, Cass and and Lun, to to talk to each other and tell
47:23
her. He's got to tell her that he's
47:25
in love with her. And how's she gonna react?
47:29
It's just that ROM com moment of is this gonna go wrong?
47:33
Is this gonna go right? So is this the best example of
47:36
this? Well, it.
47:40
It does work. It does.
47:42
Is this is this better than what happens in love and monsters?
47:47
What with the pavement slab? Well, no.
47:49
When just that sort of acknowledgement of people
47:52
falling in love who won't admit it.
47:55
What? Is this supposed to be a thing
47:56
between Clara and this fella here?
47:57
Because they both look at each other, don't they?
47:59
No, no, no. I think it's.
48:01
I think Clara is sort of telling him that he needs to because she
48:06
said because she's been through the stuff with Danny Pink the
48:09
year before and you can't let your grief sort of let you down.
48:13
You've got to go back and live again.
48:15
She's a love expert now, isn't she?
48:17
She is. Well, she is.
48:18
She's had a great relationship and she's loved and she's lost,
48:22
so she knows about Greece. Did you say grace or grace?
48:27
I did say grace, and I meant grief.
48:34
You can have that one for. Free.
48:35
I don't even want to know what she knows about grief.
48:38
All right? I'm sure she's well lubricated.
48:43
Bless you. I would.
48:44
He's explaining the plot. He's explaining that he's done
48:47
the bootstrap Bootstrap paradox. With you?
48:51
I don't know. I can't talk now.
48:54
Oh, you're very bootstrapper. You are.
48:56
Oh dear. I do wonder, though, if you need
49:03
an explanation at the end of the story.
49:07
Has the story been clear enough for you?
49:09
What exactly? And that's it?
49:15
Well, yeah. Have they been too clever?
49:18
But I I quite like him, sort of questioning why he's done what
49:23
he's done. Yes, that's good because it's
49:26
like, did I have this idea or did I or did I not?
49:30
And I love this last shot of him.
49:33
That's really good. If you ask me, that's scarier
49:37
than the cliffhanger. Oh look, the Next Time trailer
49:42
for the SHIELD episodes. So I do like the next one I do,
49:48
you know, I think I need to watch that one again and
49:50
reevaluate that one because I didn't like it the first time I
49:54
saw it. It is the only episode this year
49:56
having fun. Yes, only one.
49:59
Well, some people think the tank and the guitar is fun, but not
50:03
me. It's not fun, although it's
50:07
hampered by the fact that Brian Blessed was supposed to play the
50:10
God and he didn't. No, we could have had him come
50:13
along, couldn't we? I can't.
50:15
You come on us for the content. Well, look, I'll tell you what
50:20
you know, we watched a fairly average Doctor Who story there.
50:23
I had great fun. Well, we had a lot.
50:26
There was a lot to discuss there.
50:28
And take that as the greatest compliment I can give you.
50:31
You make even average Doctor Who?
50:36
I'll take that. That's fine.
50:38
But as and I don't think this is going to be hard because we
50:40
have. Managed to pick out positives as
50:43
we've gone along as well. I've got a great one as well.
50:46
I hope you don't choose it. You go 1st and I'll follow you
50:52
Okay. Well, I am going to pick the
50:54
scene with Cass and the Axe and I think that is the best scene
51:02
of the story. I think that is absolutely
51:04
brilliantly done. There's really great direction.
51:06
It's tense. It's using what could be seen as
51:13
a disability in an interesting way.
51:15
I'm making it something that is actually becomes a positive
51:20
because the character is positive and works out a way to
51:25
use different a different way to find the solution to this.
51:29
And I think just generally, Cass in general is the best character
51:33
in the story and it's a really great thing.
51:39
I don't want to say the fact that she's deaf means that
51:44
there's a hook, no. But it does stand out.
51:49
And but it stands out not because it's a hook, but because
51:52
it's satisfying. It's refreshing.
51:54
And also the fact that the character is deaf, but also they
52:00
cost a deaf actor. I think makes it as well,
52:03
because if you'd had someone who could hear play that, I don't
52:07
think it would have been played in the same way.
52:09
Which is why sometimes you do need actors who are sort of
52:16
affected that way. And I don't know the right way
52:19
to say that without sounding awful and patronizing, but you
52:22
need that representation, and you need those actors to do
52:25
that. What it does is it leads to
52:27
characters like die in flux, yes.
52:31
Who, despite the fact that she does have one on missing, she's
52:34
a kick ass character. She's going through those
52:37
passenger landscapes and showing Vindo is supposed to be the
52:41
action here. What's what?
52:43
That's great stuff. Well, OK, I'm going to choose
52:45
this now because I'm scared you can choose it.
52:47
It was the biggest laugh of the whole story.
52:49
But it's the sequence where the Fisher King gets dramatically
52:53
swept away by an enormous body of water and turns to the camera
52:58
and wobbles in a very comic way and goes and do you know what?
53:03
I don't think it's supposed to be funny.
53:05
I think it's supposed to be. But it is one of those moments
53:08
that just transcends. It's one of those wonderful
53:09
Doctor Huey moments, isn't it, where it's not, you know, what
53:14
they're doing, but they haven't quite pulled it off and it just
53:17
becomes funny because of that. It's one of those times where
53:20
it's so operatic. It's hilarious.
53:23
Yeah, exactly. It's so over the top.
53:25
And in a story where we haven't had much as over the top like
53:28
that, it's wonderful. I'm going to say for my second
53:31
choice, the early scenes of episode one under the Lake,
53:36
where the Doctor and Clara come out of the TARDIS and are just
53:39
exploring, and it's a bit of a mystery.
53:41
And we've only got like 5 minutes of that before they meet
53:46
the crew. But it's a great 5 minutes and
53:48
it's a very Doctor Who thing to do and it just makes the
53:53
characters come alive for a bit, just doing standard Doctor Who
53:58
things. It's no insult to that material
54:01
to say that. You could interchange any Doctor
54:04
and companion because it means they're getting the sort of the
54:07
quintessence of Doctor Who, right?
54:08
Doesn't it? Absolutely, Yeah.
54:10
And that's basic meat and veg. Doctor Who that is.
54:13
You land somewhere, you don't know where you are, what's
54:17
happened here, and you want. Doctor and Perry Doctor, what is
54:23
this forbidden language that we can't understand?
54:25
You know exactly. And you can hear Sarah Jane
54:28
saying that. Or Romana.
54:30
Or or Tegan. Or anyone doing those lines with
54:35
their respective doctors God. Imagine William Hartnell with
54:38
the cards Dodo going. Come on, get the cards.
54:43
Amazing. What's up, my child?
54:46
I'm very sorry. I'm very sorry about the law.
54:50
Yeah, as well. The Hartnell and Barbara.
54:53
But even better, my second one is also going to be from under
54:59
the lake and it's a water gushing in baby.
55:03
A lot of the water on the water. But it I feel like the middle of
55:09
Under the Lake gets a bit talky, and so suddenly there's this
55:14
massive injection of action towards the end of the episode
55:17
and there's just something tense.
55:19
About being trapped somewhere filled with water.
55:21
It's not a way I'd want to go if I want to.
55:23
No, no, no. It's not a nice way to go at
55:25
all. And I think it works visually,
55:28
and I think it gives the episode a shot in the arm right at the
55:30
last minute. Yep, OK And my last one will be,
55:35
I think the design of the ghosts is really good and it's a love,
55:38
a really eerie image. And that's the image that has
55:41
stayed with me after this episode of the ghosts in the
55:45
water or walking through the corridors with their eyes all in
55:50
black and holler, almost hollered out, and the strange
55:54
sort of smoky effects that they have, whether or not quite
55:57
there, I think that is really great effect and that stands up
56:01
really, really well. My last thing, then, is going to
56:06
be I love, through this review, Stephen Moffatt, who.
56:12
I'm sure has peripheral involvement with this, but what
56:16
I like is wit. House is trying to write to his
56:19
style, especially in episode 2. And I don't really like how the
56:24
Bootstrap paradox is portrayed and explained, because I don't
56:29
think you should need both. And you certainly shouldn't need
56:32
it explained at the beginning at the end of the episode, because
56:35
then you've done something wrong in the middle.
56:38
But. Introducing high concept science
56:41
fiction ideas to children or just to the audience in general,
56:45
to what I consider to be a fairly lobotomized television
56:48
audience these days. I think that's something that
56:51
should be encouraged. And it happens a lot in
56:53
Moffett's time. And I think that's one of the
56:56
biggest strengths of his era. Is big ideas.
57:00
Yeah, absolutely. And it takes complex ideas and
57:03
does them in a complex way. Just not here because or too
57:08
complex that it needs explaining twice, Yes.
57:13
So I don't. I'm overall, I don't think
57:15
that's necessarily a triumph of a story, but it's good.
57:20
Yeah, we could come back to the word competent, don't we?
57:23
Yeah, And I think that is right from the start.
57:26
I think that is absolutely the right, right thing.
57:30
As we said, this is average Doctor Who, and that's fine.
57:34
You need lots of average Doctor Who.
57:36
Hang on, it's average Doctor Who.
57:38
Anywhere else, Yeah, it's above average.
57:41
And this is, unfortunately, we're in a season where
57:44
competent is a high bar. Yeah, exactly so.
57:49
And I realize that's subjective and people might say that to
57:52
People will love this and will disagree, and I'd love to hear
57:55
your arguments. I know Fraser loves the which is
57:59
familiar and the magician's apprentice.
58:00
I know Luke Malloy loves, heaven sent and Hell Ben.
58:04
I like Joe Short. Loves sleep no more.
58:06
Sleep no more. Yeah, and I'm sure there are
58:08
people who love the shield of stories.
58:11
But I think if you look at certainly, and I think you have
58:15
to use those polls as a fair gauge to the overall, it's not.
58:21
And none of that's subjective and none of it's our opinion,
58:24
but it's the collective opinion writ large, cause I'm sure
58:28
there's probably about 50,000 people.
58:30
Doing that part I don't. Think we DWN these days when
58:34
David Tennant's face is on the cover at least 50,000.
58:37
You know, that's why it's so many.
58:40
But if you look, a lot of Series 9 is low, yeah, And there is a
58:45
reason for that. I don't think it's a popular
58:48
year. It's not, you know, people don't
58:50
celebrate it alongside four and five, do they?
58:53
No, I did did read someone who said it was his favorite year of
58:57
Doctor Whoever, so you know. I've heard a few people say
59:01
that, you know, and that just goes to show there is something
59:04
for everyone. Well, so as I always ask you at
59:09
this opportune moment, where are we going next?
59:13
Well, you know, we keep talking about the Day of the Doctor, but
59:17
that's for the anniversary, which is coming up shortly.
59:21
So we should probably do that. But I did throw another story at
59:25
you recently that we almost did tonight, and it's classic series
59:32
and it's a base under siege and it's the arc in space.
59:37
Yes. What is it about you choosing
59:40
these stories with no humor? I know.
59:43
Well, I've done lots of stories with humor, so.
59:46
Yeah, we don't want to say you're a one trick pony.
59:49
Oh, that would be gold, wouldn't it, Ashley?
59:51
There is a lot of younger than that.
59:53
It's just subtle. So yeah, I think that will be to
1:00:00
compare it to this one. I'm going to break it to you
1:00:02
though. Yes, we are going to do the
1:00:04
arching space and we are going to do Day of the Doctor and you
1:00:08
and Fraser and I are going to finish up Planet and Spiders.
1:00:11
We're also going to do the 10th planet.
1:00:14
And the five Doctors and five Doctors.
1:00:16
And you and I are going to do The Sarah Jane Adventures.
1:00:19
We are, yes. Yes, we are.
1:00:21
The conclusion I'm drawing is we've got many adventures ahead
1:00:25
of us. Yeah, we've got we've got many
1:00:27
behind us and we've got loads more to come.
1:00:31
Well, should we go and get on that path and have those
1:00:34
adventures? Yeah, well, you know, Joe, life
1:00:37
on Earth can be an adventure too.