Latest / Abbey the Podcast Lady / Podcast Website Tips from Podcast Hall of Famer Dave Jackson

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Podcast Website Tips from Podcast Hall of Famer Dave Jackson · Abbey the Podcast Lady

0:05
Hello, and welcome to another episode of Abby
0:07
the Podcast Lady. I am super excited to be sharing
0:12
a very special guest with you today. We're really
0:15
getting into kind of how to grow your visibility
0:17
for your brand, for your podcast, for your business.
0:20
And I think Dave Jackson is going to have some
0:22
really great insight for us. So Dave, welcome
0:25
to the show. Thanks for being here. Abby, thanks
0:27
for having me. I'm looking forward to this. Give
0:30
us like a 10 ,000 foot overview. Who is Dave?
0:33
What do you do? What's your role in this podcasting
0:35
space? Yeah, I've been podcasting since 2005
0:38
when we like hammered them out of rock and chisel.
0:41
It was, I'm a 2018 Podcaster Hall of Fame inductee.
0:46
That was, that still surprises me. And I've been
0:48
working at Podpage now after working eight years
0:51
at Libsyn. I am now the head of podcasting at
0:53
Podpage. It's wonderful. Okay, before we get
0:56
into pod page, which is really what we're here
0:58
to talk about today, I would love to kind of
1:00
rewind on all that you just shared because I
1:03
think it's really valuable information for people,
1:05
especially just starting out to show how you
1:07
can start in the podcast space and become a Hall
1:09
of Famer. So let's start there. What got you
1:13
to be a podcasting Hall of Famer? How'd you get
1:17
that title added to your name? One, I didn't
1:19
quit, but I literally in 2005, here's the fun
1:23
part, 2004, bankrupt and divorced. It was a banner
1:27
year, 2004. And my brother said, hey, you're
1:30
going to come live with me. And I'm like, no,
1:31
no, I'm going to get an apartment. He's like,
1:32
you're coming to live with me. You have lawyer
1:34
bills coming. And so I was in my brother's basement.
1:38
I have a picture and I just lugged all my stuff
1:40
into this room. And it's just an absolute disaster.
1:43
And I always tell people, I go, that's where
1:45
I started. I go, I was literally next to a water
1:47
heater. I had a flush pipe behind me, hoping
1:50
nobody would flush the toilet. You know, and
1:52
the furnace was in the corner. So waiting till
1:54
the furnace was off and the hot weeders. OK,
1:57
I can record now, you know. And so nobody has
2:01
to pee. Yeah, exactly. Oh, my favorite was the
2:05
screams of Uncle Dave because I'd gone over and
2:09
opened the dryer door because they were drying
2:12
clothes at night. And so they're ready to wear
2:14
their favorite outfit to work. And I forgot to
2:16
go for restart the dryer. and it was like uncle
2:19
dave so uh yeah so i did that and i had a website
2:23
for musicians my my original podcast was for
2:26
musicians and i was writing blogs and all this
2:29
other stuff and i had written a book and i and
2:31
a friend of mine came back and said hey you know
2:34
and again this makes me sound like i'm four million
2:36
years old he goes you know how you missed the
2:38
myspace boat and i go yeah yeah don't rub it
2:40
in he's like well i've seen the the next big
2:42
thing and i go what is it he goes podcasting
2:45
and i went to google And I searched it and there
2:47
was one and a half pages. And I was like, wait,
2:50
how do you spell this? He's like, how do you
2:52
spell it? It's P -O -D casting. And I go, dude,
2:54
I think we broke the internet. And so I saw like
2:58
the few articles there and I pieces parted one
3:00
together. And what got me into it was I had uploaded
3:04
a file and you were kind of hand coding your
3:07
RSS feed back then. And I saw it come down into
3:11
this archaic old podcast software. And I was
3:14
like, oh, wait a minute. And so I turned what
3:17
was a blog into a podcast. And within like two
3:20
weeks, I got a voicemail from Michael Van Laar
3:23
from Nuremberg, Germany. And I remember I was
3:26
in Magador, Ohio. Everyone together. Where? Yes,
3:29
exactly. It's me and the cows. And some guy in
3:32
Germany found my, not only found my show, but
3:34
liked it and sent me a voicemail. And that's
3:36
when I just grabbed the flag. And I'm like, I
3:38
claim podcasting in the name of Dave. And so
3:41
that's what really got me when I realized. It's
3:44
funny because if you give a podcast to a salesperson,
3:47
they want to sell. You give a podcast to a teacher.
3:49
I was like, oh, we're all going to learn from
3:51
each other. This is going to be amazing. I'm
3:53
going to learn about different cultures and blah.
3:55
So it's been fun to watch it, you know, kind
3:58
of grow because the first five years were just
4:00
brutal because you had to be kind of a nerd to
4:03
even get into podcasting. And so, yeah, but the
4:06
bottom line is I didn't quit. There were times
4:09
that were there times that I thought nobody's
4:11
listening. Sure. Were there times when I was
4:14
kind of like, I don't really want to talk about
4:15
podcasting today. And that's where I always,
4:18
anytime I have that eureka moment and you're
4:21
like, oh, that'd be a good episode. I learned
4:23
early, write that down. Because if you're like,
4:25
oh, I'll remember it. No, you're not. And so
4:28
that way, anytime I'm like, I don't know what
4:30
to talk about this week. I will go to my, I use
4:33
a thing called NoteJoy, but you could use Apple
4:35
Notes, whatever you want to use. And I'll go
4:36
in like, oh, I totally forgot about this one.
4:38
Yeah, we're going to talk about that this week.
4:40
Yes, that is so crucial. I literally right before
4:44
I was about to fall asleep last night, I had
4:45
an idea for an episode. I'm like, if I don't
4:47
write this down, I'm going to wake up tomorrow
4:49
morning mad at myself. So I open up the notes
4:50
app, get that blast of blue light in the face
4:53
right as I'm about to fall asleep. But I'm glad
4:55
I wrote it down because I'm going to record it
4:57
later today. So there's so much to be said for
4:59
that. And it's just a case where your podcast
5:01
leads to relationships. Your relationships lead
5:04
to opportunities. And those opportunities give
5:07
you a chance to talk about your podcast in front
5:08
of more people. And it just, it's not 10 ,000
5:11
downloads overnight. I wish there was. I'm still
5:13
looking for that switch where you could just
5:15
go boop and then just, you know, this mountain
5:17
of downloads comes. But I just actually just
5:20
did an episode where I talked about, it's not
5:21
really about the 10 ,000 downloads. It's about
5:23
getting the right people listening to your show.
5:26
But it's just one of those things where, for
5:28
me, about the time I'm thinking, is this even
5:31
working? Something will come along. And somebody
5:34
will say that really helped or whatever it is.
5:36
So I always tell people, if the next time you
5:38
listen to a good podcast, please let the podcaster
5:40
know because that puts so much gas back in their
5:43
tank. So if you've been listening to, you know,
5:45
Abby for a while, just say, hey, podcast lady,
5:47
that was amazing. Thank you so much. And that
5:49
will keep her going for quite some time. Yes,
5:52
it really does. So fast forward a little bit.
5:55
How did we get to the point of being a Hall of
5:57
Famer? Really? It sounds stupid. because it messed
6:02
with my head. When I got home from the Hall of
6:04
Fame, I started to record and I was like, is
6:06
that Hall of Fame material? I'm like, no. And
6:08
I really, like, it really jerked my head around.
6:11
And I was like, wait a minute. How did I get
6:13
voted into the Hall of Fame? I don't know. I'd
6:15
just been being me for, you know, 20 years. So
6:19
just be you. So that's part of it. And it's,
6:22
I will credit my niece when she was three. And
6:27
I was still living in my brother's basement.
6:29
Walked by and I heard this glorious sound of
6:31
a three -year -old doing a belly laugh. Nothing
6:33
better than that. And I said, Emily, what are
6:35
you doing? And she said, Roger Rabbit is teaching
6:38
me reading. And I was like, she doesn't even
6:41
know she's learning. She's having so much fun.
6:44
And so before I was a podcaster, I taught in
6:46
the corporate world. I taught a lot of Microsoft
6:48
Office and QuickBooks. And so I've always tried
6:51
to make, I called it edutainment. I don't think
6:55
I coined that term, but I use it a lot. So I
6:57
always try to make it fun. And so really that's
7:00
just, it's just me. And I realize that some people
7:03
might tune into my show and go, and this guy's
7:06
weird. Okay. You're not my target audience, but
7:10
enough people, when I see people and they go,
7:12
oh, I listen to your show. And I'm like, great.
7:14
Why do you listen? They go, well, I always learn
7:16
something. And I don't know, you're, you're kind
7:17
of funny. And I'm like, okay, looks aren't everything,
7:20
but I'll take that, you know? And really that's,
7:23
I think that's it in just a matter of. I'm not
7:26
afraid to look stupid. I grew up kind of poor.
7:29
So, you know, I went to school with some very,
7:31
shall we say, interesting outfits because we
7:34
didn't have the money to buy more stuff. And
7:36
so I'm okay with people not liking me and I just
7:39
do what I do. And if you like me, great. If you
7:41
don't, you know, here, go listen to Abby, go
7:44
listen to David. There's a million people talking
7:46
about podcasting. And so I think that's it. And
7:49
just always trying to make sure you walked away
7:52
with some sort of takeaway. Not just inspiring
7:55
people is great and people do need inspired,
7:59
but also like, what can you actually do when
8:01
you get done listening to this episode? And then
8:04
I think the other one is, I mean, it's kind of
8:06
a joke, but it's not. I have a website, podcastsaboutpodcasting
8:10
.com, and it is the never ending list of podcasts
8:13
about podcasting. And at the bottom, you will
8:15
see all the ones that started and quit. And so
8:18
a lot of times people will, you know, I'm going
8:21
to do a show about. you know, whatever. And they
8:23
type it and they go like, oh, there's, you know,
8:25
there's 17 shows about this topic. I'm too late.
8:27
I'm like, go in and see when was the last episode.
8:30
Because so many times, especially so many shows
8:33
were started in 2020 during COVID and then they
8:36
quit in 2022. So, you know, and there are, if
8:41
you think about how many books come out every
8:42
year in January about how to get fit and yet
8:45
every year they put out new books. So as much
8:48
as people love to say it's crowded. You know,
8:51
it's really just keep going is really it. And
8:54
so I still to this day, I remember Gary Leland,
8:59
who was a friend of mine called and because the
9:02
year before they had tagged me to induct somebody,
9:05
Dan Klass. And I don't know if that got people
9:08
like, hey, why isn't that guy in the Hall of
9:10
Fame? But it was just a case where Gary called
9:12
me and he goes, hey, we're going to need your
9:13
help again. with the Hall of Fame. And I'm like,
9:16
oh, great. Who am I inducting? He goes, oh, you're
9:18
not doing the inductor. You're the inductee.
9:21
And I was like, wait, what? So it's hard to make
9:24
Dave Jackson speechless, but that worked pretty
9:26
well. That's amazing. I think there were so many
9:29
little beautiful golden nuggets in there that
9:32
people need to hear. It's not too crowded. You
9:35
just need to keep going. And being yourself is
9:37
the most important part. I went to college to
9:41
be a radio DJ. which was the equivalent of clown
9:43
college. But they said on day one, do not go
9:49
into one of our little practice radio booths
9:52
and pretend to be someone you're not because
9:54
you cannot hold that up for the rest of your
9:56
career. The best thing you can do is go in there
9:59
and just be you. Because you have your experiences.
10:04
No one else does. But there will be people that
10:06
relate to it or think you're insane for it. And
10:08
either way, they're still listening. Yeah. And
10:10
it's one of the things I always try to figure
10:11
out is who my audience is. And I just I like
10:15
to take podcasting out of podcasting and putting
10:17
it into something else. And I go, so if I had
10:20
a dinner party, I would want to know, is anybody,
10:22
you know, glucose intolerant or are they a vegan
10:25
or whatever? So I can make a meal that's going
10:29
to that everybody's coming is going to enjoy.
10:31
And so really podcasting, a good podcast boils
10:35
down to knowing kind of what your strengths are.
10:38
So for me, I'm a little goofy. So I don't try
10:40
to be, you know, I don't try to be the serious
10:43
podcaster. And on this show, that's just not
10:45
me. And I also, I hang out a lot in Reddit and
10:49
Facebook groups and Quora and all these other
10:52
places trying to see what are people struggling
10:54
with. So I'm not guessing. do people need to
10:57
know about this? I can see, no, people are confused
10:59
on what the heck is an RSS feed or whatever it
11:01
is. And so I'm always trying to figure out what
11:04
does my audience want and then give it to them
11:06
in a fun and entertaining fashion. I love that.
11:08
And entertaining is huge and just being something
11:11
that they want to listen to. Because I think
11:13
everyone's definition of entertaining is different
11:15
too. Like I am a huge diehard Taylor Swift fan.
11:19
My husband is not. We are not entertained by
11:22
the same things. So I think there's something
11:24
to be said for when you find how you're good
11:27
at entertaining, just like really lean into that
11:30
lane because your audience is going to resonate
11:32
with it. Well, I got a really interesting comment.
11:35
I recently did an episode because for years I
11:39
am. I love Spotify as a. music service but as
11:43
a media host I have not liked them since 2015
11:45
when they lied to their quote partners and kind
11:49
of stabbed a bunch of people in the back they
11:51
love to do things like oh you can play music
11:53
in your podcast and then you read the small print
11:55
only in the app not on the website only for those
11:57
people that paid for it and only after we approve
12:00
every single episode and so you start your music
12:03
podcast and then they cancel it you know six
12:05
weeks later And so people are like, Dave, what's
12:09
your beef with Spotify? And I was like, all right,
12:10
I should probably just do an episode where I
12:12
talk about this. And it was really boring. It
12:14
was just a history of like, they did this and
12:16
then they turned that off and the who cares and
12:19
blah, blah. And I was like, okay, how do I tell
12:20
the story of Spotify? And I was like, oh, it
12:24
is a story. And I was like, hmm. And then I,
12:26
this is just Dave being weird. My brain went,
12:29
what if you told it like a children's story and
12:32
then had like Mr. Rogers neighborhood kind of
12:34
music and I can go to. ai and make some ai children
12:38
that go hello mr dave you know but mr dave what
12:40
about the people that were using the service
12:42
you know that kind of stuff and i had a friend
12:45
of mine say dude this is why i listen to your
12:47
show because ai would never say let's do the
12:50
history of spotify screwing podcasters as a children's
12:53
story because that is so dave jackson and if
12:56
somebody said where did that come from i go Route
12:58
43, driving west. I was just sitting there and
13:01
went, huh, what if we could do this? And so that's
13:04
just me leaning into being me. And I just thought,
13:07
I just knew it was boring as I was kind of thinking
13:10
about it in my head. I'm like, this is just facts.
13:12
And that's, you know, after a while, you're like,
13:14
yeah, we get it. Spotify is bad. And I'm like,
13:16
but how can I make it entertaining? So that's
13:18
always just something I try to do. Yeah, that
13:21
is genius to go from basically a timeline of
13:24
grievances to children's book like that is. And
13:27
what an easily digestible way to do that as well.
13:30
Like everyone and their mom has been read a children's
13:34
book at some at some point. And everyone can
13:37
just like they immediately know how they're supposed
13:40
to feel, what they're going to walk away with
13:42
from a children's book experience like that is
13:45
absolutely genius. Applause, my friend. Thank
13:48
you. Originally, I was going to have the kids
13:50
drop F -bombs just for the shock value. And I
13:53
went, no, because my show's clean. And I was
13:55
like, no, even if I bleeped them out, I'm like,
13:57
yeah, that's a little too far. Yeah. Got to reel
13:59
it back sometimes. Sometimes. That's amazing.
14:02
OK, so then you went to work for Libsyn. Yeah.
14:05
So what was your role with Libsyn? Yeah, I started
14:08
off as just a tech support guy. But here again,
14:11
your podcast leads to relationships. So I had
14:15
known Rob Walsh, who at the time we had done
14:17
a show with Gary Leon, who I just mentioned,
14:20
and Paul Culligan called This Week in Podcasting.
14:23
And so I knew Rob and he was kind of like the
14:26
Mac guy and I was the PC guy and we knew of each
14:29
other. And so when I lost my teaching job, I
14:32
was like, man, I would really love to get a job
14:34
in podcasting. And I'm like, where would I want
14:36
to work? And at the time it was Libsyn. And I
14:39
was like, well, I know Rob. So I called up Rob
14:41
and I said, hey, dude. And he's like, hey. And
14:43
I go, I got good news and bad news. Which one
14:46
do you want first? And he goes, all right, I'll
14:49
play. What's the bad news? I go, I just lost
14:51
my job. And he goes, OK. And the good news is,
14:54
I go, I'm available to work for you. And I said,
14:57
I told you this might get awkward. He goes, no,
14:59
no. He goes, what are you doing right now? And
15:01
I go, I literally just lost my job, probably
15:03
laundry. And he's like, well, let me see if I
15:06
can get the president of Libsyn to call you back.
15:08
And 20 minutes later, I'm talking to the president
15:10
of Libsyn. And she's like, would you be willing
15:12
to do like level one tech support? And I go,
15:15
does it come with health benefits? And she said,
15:16
yes. And I said, yes. And so over the years,
15:20
they just kept saying, oh, we could use you over
15:22
here. Oh, we could use you over here. And I ended
15:24
up being the head of podcasting, which had me
15:27
working with like the head of Campbell Soup's
15:29
marketing department and things like that. And
15:31
I did webinars and all sorts of stuff. And part
15:34
of that was I'm a bit of a nerd, right? I know
15:37
the tech side. but I can also talk. And so many
15:40
times you get really nerdy guys that can only
15:42
talk to their shoes. And I'm like, yeah, you
15:45
need to come out of that bubble a little bit.
15:47
And so, yeah, I did that for eight years. And
15:49
I still have people over there I'm really good
15:52
friends with, but Libsyn had just changed. They
15:54
were a little more of an advertising company
15:56
focused than a media host. And there were just
16:00
some things that they have now changed. But at
16:02
the time, like we had apps and our apps were
16:06
just kind of a nightmare. behind the scenes.
16:08
And I was like, hey, this is not good. And they
16:11
didn't seem really in a hurry to fix them. Now
16:13
they have since just moved away from the apps.
16:16
They've moved away from basically all the things
16:17
that were really a thorn in my side. But I had
16:20
in 2020, I had been hired by Brendan Mulligan,
16:24
the head of Podpage. And he just wanted to talk
16:26
to me and said, do you think anybody would buy
16:28
this? And literally, I still have the Zoom meeting.
16:31
The first thing out of my mouth was. Please tell
16:33
me you have an affiliate program, which actually
16:36
kind of got me in trouble at Libsyn because Libsyn
16:38
owned a web hosting company. And I was telling
16:40
people, you know, this WordPress is great, but
16:42
I really like this pod page thing. And so over
16:45
the years, I would just go back to Brennan and
16:47
go, this is really cool. Can you get it to do
16:49
this? Can you get it to do this? And I was one
16:51
of his top affiliates. And so in 2024, he's like,
16:55
hey, if you're happy at Libsyn, stay there. I'm
16:57
just letting you know, if you ever want to work
16:59
over here, there's a chair with your name on
17:01
it. And so in 2024, I was kind of, like I said,
17:06
Libsyn really wasn't what the company that I'd
17:08
been hired in at. And so I jumped ship. I think
17:12
it is so valuable. the listeners are like, okay,
17:15
I'm like looking for a hosting platform. I'm
17:18
just getting started. I think it's so valuable
17:20
to hear things like this, that there's actually
17:22
real humans behind the scenes working at these
17:25
hosting platforms. Because I know when I started
17:27
my show and knew nothing about podcasting, knew
17:30
nothing about anything. And I'm like trying to
17:33
find a hosting site. There's 18 of them on page
17:36
one of Google. And I'm like. Are these real?
17:39
Is there someone that's actually going to be
17:40
there to help me fix a problem if I encounter
17:42
a problem? Is there actually going to be someone
17:44
that answers an email if I have a question? Like,
17:46
it's so valuable to know that there are real
17:48
humans working behind the scenes that care about
17:51
the industry. Yeah, that's really it. I know
17:53
people still go, what AI tool did you use to
17:56
make a video? Because if you sign up. for a 14
18:00
-day trial at Podpage, you're going to get a
18:02
video from me going, hey, thanks so much for
18:04
giving Podpage a try. If you have any questions,
18:06
support at podpage .com. And people are like,
18:08
that was cool. What did you use to make that?
18:10
I go, well, it's Loom. And they're like, yeah,
18:13
but what's the AI? It's not AI. It's me. I go,
18:16
it takes 30 seconds to record a video and go,
18:18
thank you. And so we at Podpage, we kind of,
18:21
we turned on the AI tool because we use Intercom
18:25
for our tech support. And it was, I mean, I spent
18:28
a while training this stupid thing. And in the
18:30
end, we're just like, nah, like we actually,
18:33
number one, we, I'll give you an example. This
18:36
rolled out two weeks ago. Somebody said, I'd
18:39
love pod page. You guys have all these features.
18:41
And I know I can go to the front end of my website,
18:44
like a visitor, and I can use the search there.
18:47
Is there any way we could search in PodPage to
18:49
not only search our episodes, but like, what
18:51
if I'm looking for that coming soon switch? Where
18:54
is that again in PodPage? Well, now there's a
18:56
search box in PodPage and people are like, oh
18:58
my God, that's so great. And I'm like, we, Brendan
19:01
has always built this the same way I advise people
19:04
to build a podcast, which is listen to your audience,
19:07
find out what they want and then give it to them.
19:09
And so somebody said, is there a way we could
19:11
get a search in the back end of PodPage? And
19:14
he looked at it and was like, oh, that's not
19:15
that heavy of a lift. And like, you know, four
19:18
days later, here it is. So it's been a lot of
19:20
fun. That's amazing. I remember the very first
19:23
pod page website I've seen. And it was last year,
19:26
I think it was December -ish, I had Andy Lyons
19:30
from Don't Be Caged by Your Age on my podcast
19:32
to talk about podcasting later in life. And I
19:35
was doing my research on her, prepping for the
19:37
interview, and I get to her podcast website.
19:40
And I'm like, wow, this is a beautiful website.
19:42
And I'm scrolling through and I get to the bottom
19:44
and I see the pod page logo on it. And I'm like,
19:48
PodPage. I remember getting fed ads for these
19:51
people. I remember hearing about them at PodFest
19:54
last year. And it's crazy because I'm a total
19:57
podcast nerd, hence the name The Podcast Lady.
20:00
But the fact that I can remember the first PodPage
20:03
website that I saw. That's pretty impressive
20:05
because I see a lot of websites every single
20:07
day and I don't necessarily always know who makes
20:09
them or where they came from. Well, that's the
20:11
thing. If I have somebody ask me about it at
20:13
a conference, I'll be like, do you have like
20:15
three minutes for a quick video or a quick, you
20:18
know, tutorial? And I'll just open up my laptop.
20:20
You can go over there's if you go to podpage
20:22
.com slash preview, you can actually look up
20:24
your show. And in about, I don't know, 10 clicks,
20:27
have a working website. And I was like on click
20:29
three. And the person I was talking to, she said.
20:33
well, this already looks better than my website.
20:35
And I'm like, we're not even done yet. So yeah,
20:38
it's something that he, Brendan used to work
20:41
at Google. So there's a lot of built -in SEO.
20:44
He did this similarly before podcasters. He did
20:47
this for musicians because musicians were in
20:49
the same boat. They were spending too much time
20:51
on their website and not enough time on their
20:53
music. So he was like, hmm. And so he just kind
20:56
of tweaked it and made it for podcasters. And
20:58
now podcasters can go back to podcasting and
21:01
quit worrying about your website. I think that
21:03
is a big hurdle that I deal with with a lot of
21:05
my production clients is when they're getting
21:08
started, they're like, well, I need a website
21:10
and I need to build SEO and I have all these
21:13
things that I need to do. And I'm like, okay,
21:16
well, first of all, you're putting the cart before
21:18
the horse because you haven't even recorded the
21:19
intro to the show yet. But secondly, there are
21:24
tools out there to make this easier so you don't
21:26
need to be spending every free second you have
21:28
learning how to code or learning how to build
21:30
something on WordPress. There are resources like
21:34
Podpage out there to make this easy. And that's
21:36
the whole point. Yeah, I was a huge WordPress
21:38
fan. They used it for years and they had changed
21:42
their builder and they changed a couple other
21:43
things. And it's funny because I do the website
21:45
for my church that I go to and they're still
21:48
using WordPress. And when I log in, I'm like,
21:50
like, I need to update 17 plugins and, you know,
21:53
this backup. And then I'm just like, I need to
21:56
create a podcast for my church so we can use
21:58
Podpage. So yeah, so it's fun. It's really made
22:04
for podcasters. And what we do is, Like we're
22:07
not trying to be MailChimp or ConvertKit, but
22:10
we can integrate with those. We're not going
22:11
to be Patreon or PayPal or something, but we'll
22:14
integrate with those people. So we always say
22:16
we build beautiful websites for podcasters that
22:19
don't want to learn how to code. And then we
22:21
just integrate with everything else. And that
22:24
way, because some people are like, well, you
22:26
should build it in. I'm like, well, okay, but
22:28
what if there's something that's better? Let's
22:30
say we build a tool for e -commerce and then
22:32
somebody goes, yeah, but you're not as good as
22:34
Shopify. Well, OK, that makes sense. So why spend
22:37
all that time developing something when you can
22:39
just integrate with these other tools that have
22:41
been doing it for 20, 30 years? You're like,
22:44
well, we're never going to outdo, you know, ConvertKit.
22:46
So what's the point? So we just integrate with
22:49
everybody. That's amazing. And I think it is
22:53
easier than ever to integrate with the MailChimps,
22:56
with the Shopify's, with whatever you're trying
22:58
to do. Like the Internet has become a playground
23:01
for everyone. And there is a way to make it work.
23:04
It might take a little bit longer sometimes,
23:06
but there's ways to make things work. That's
23:08
incredible. Okay, so to kind of wrap up here,
23:11
I would love for you to expound on the virtues
23:13
of podcasters having a website because I think
23:16
this is something that even my own roster of
23:20
clients, I'd say about 60 % of them actually
23:22
have a website and are using it and updating
23:25
it. The other 40 % are not. So please expound
23:28
on the virtues so I can clip this and send them
23:30
to them. Yeah, the first thing is, if nothing
23:33
else, have a domain name. Because when you say,
23:37
oh, go to podpage .com slash try dash and dash
23:41
spell dash this, nobody's going to that website.
23:44
So have a domain and point it at whoever you
23:46
are using. And then my favorite thing is, could
23:50
you imagine Amazon without a website? Like, why
23:53
do they have a website? Well, because you want
23:55
people to go there and do stuff. And so one of
23:57
the best things you can do if you really want
23:59
to. get an engaged audience is build an email
24:02
list. Why? Because when you have their email,
24:04
then you can say, oh, click here to follow the
24:06
show. Because one of the things PodPage does
24:08
is we put all your Apple and Spotify and all
24:10
the, on a single page. There's voicemail. It's
24:13
made to interact with people. And if you don't
24:16
have a website, where are you going to tell them
24:17
to go? Like one of the things that drives me
24:19
crazy and a single tear will come out of my eye
24:23
when you hear somebody say, just find me wherever
24:25
you find your podcasts. So first things first.
24:28
Why is your podcast lost? Why are people going
24:31
to find it? No, because I have two videos in
24:34
Spotify where I'm typing in the exact name of
24:36
the show and it's not showing up. Whereas you
24:40
could go find that link, put it in the pod page.
24:43
We'll make that follow link for you. And there's
24:45
a slash voicemail and there's slash contact.
24:48
And we have a built -in survey. Why isn't my
24:50
audience growing? Maybe you should ask them slash
24:53
survey. We have a built -in survey. The other
24:56
thing is I, a lot of people like, well, I have
24:57
a link tree. There is zero, almost negative SEO
25:01
for that. You got, they have to find you before
25:03
they can, you know, hear you or watch you or
25:05
whatever it is. And my favorite story, which
25:08
again, makes me sound like I'm 4 ,000 years old,
25:10
but there was a website called mp3 .com. And
25:13
it was like way, way, way, super gigantic. Everybody,
25:17
in fact, musicians would put their music on there.
25:20
And instead of getting a domain. They'd be like,
25:23
oh, just go to mp3 .com slash Dave. And people
25:26
would go there and they could get their music
25:28
and they would build their audience. And then
25:30
because it's the internet, people started uploading
25:32
things that they didn't have the rights to do.
25:34
So they're uploading illegal music. They got
25:37
sued. They got shut down. They got sold. They
25:39
got sued. They got shut down. So mp3 .com goes
25:42
away. And all these people that just said go
25:45
to mp3 .com slash Dave, their audience had no
25:48
way to contact them. So I would say your website,
25:52
that's your main host. And then your Instagram
25:56
and your TikTok and your Facebook and your X
25:59
and whatever else you're using, those are little
26:01
satellites that float around that. And that way,
26:03
if for some reason you get kicked off of a platform,
26:06
everybody goes, oh, I'll just go to their website.
26:08
I'm sure there's something there on it. So it
26:10
is your home base. And if you want your audience
26:13
to do anything, if you want them to be a patron.
26:16
Don't say patreon .com slash Dave Jackson. Go,
26:19
hey, you know, go to, you know, askthepodcastcoach
26:23
.com slash awesome. And that way later when you
26:26
find out, wait, Supercast is actually kind of
26:28
a better deal than Patreon. You can update that
26:30
link and not have, you know, 15 episodes with
26:34
the wrong link in it anymore. You can make what
26:36
we call a short link. So there's so many things
26:38
you can do with your website just to, you know,
26:41
build that community, get that email list, get
26:43
more followers. and be found in Google that when
26:46
somebody goes, do you really need a website?
26:48
I'm like, only if you want people to find you.
26:52
Yes. And I always love, like, one of my biggest
26:55
cringes is I'm listening to the end of a podcast
26:58
and it was a great interview with someone and
26:59
I'm like, oh, I would like to go follow them.
27:01
And they list off 18 different places to go follow
27:03
them. Just send them to the website. Just send
27:06
them to the website. Go to the one place that
27:08
you own and send them there. Yeah, absolutely.
27:12
There are times, because it's hard to do a single
27:14
call to action. That's where your website, I
27:17
would say, do the website sandwich. So you're
27:20
like, hey, if you'd like to join the newsletter
27:22
or maybe you want to buy my book or whatever
27:25
it is. First, I'd go, if you want to, you know,
27:27
join my email list, it's podcastconsultant .com.
27:30
It's all there. The newsletter, the book, the
27:33
blah, blah, blah, the blah, blah, blah. It's
27:34
all there. And then you say your website again.
27:37
Because so many times I hear people with 18 calls
27:39
to action and I'm like, do you really think I'm
27:42
still listening after call to action number four?
27:44
But if you put those between a website sandwich,
27:47
you might get more people to at least check out
27:51
your site. Exactly. I love that. A website sandwich.
27:54
That's like going to be in my head. I might make
27:57
a sticker of it and slap it somewhere. That's
27:59
it. It's my bumper sticker. Yeah. I love it.
28:02
Well, Dave, this has been... Fabulous. So call
28:05
to action time. What do you want people to do?
28:07
What's their next step? Go to podpage .com slash
28:10
preview. And if you want to check out my shows,
28:13
they're all, here's, I just said, don't have
28:15
a Linktree site. This is the only time you can
28:18
use Linktree. And in my case, I'm using a thing
28:20
called switchy .io. If you go to powerofpodcasting
28:23
.com, that's all of my stuff. And that's when
28:26
people go, where can I find all of your stuff?
28:28
That's the only time I say that. Otherwise I'd
28:30
give you 17 calls to action. So I'm giving you
28:33
one. Thank you so much for being on the show
28:35
today. There are so many wonderful standout moments.
28:39
So if you're sitting here and you're thinking,
28:41
man, that was a lot. I'm a little overwhelmed.
28:42
Just start the show over. Listen to it again.
28:45
Listen to it a third time because there is going
28:47
to be something that you're going to get from
28:48
it every time you listen to this episode. Dave,
28:51
you are wonderful. Thank you so much. And we'll
28:54
have to do this again soon. Absolutely. Abby,
28:57
thank you so much.