Latest / Being Different Together / #42 - How Physics Explains Traditional Chinese Medicine with Becky Rubright, AP

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#42 - How Physics Explains Traditional Chinese Medicine with Becky Rubright, AP · Being Different Together

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome to Being Different Together, the podcast for people who want to make the world a better place, but no they can't do it alone.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'm Dr.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_03: Kelly Brady, acupuncturist, psychotherapist, and certified dialogue therapist.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm Nissa Hanger, massage therapist, aromatherapist, coach, and real dialogue specialist.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: Together we'll explore how conversations can improve relationships, make work more joyful, and spark healing for ourselves and our communities.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_04: And listen, we don't shy away from the hard conversations.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_04: In fact, we welcome them.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_04: This isn't about being right.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's about being different together.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_04: Hello, hello.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome to episode number 42 of being different.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_04: Together.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_04: And we are here together with not one, not two, but three of us with our lovely friend, Becky Rubright.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Hello.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome to our podcast, Becky Rubright.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_04: I'm very excited.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_04: Or should I say Rebecca?
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_04: I see this on your paper right here.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_04: So Becky and I go way back.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_04: Way back.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_04: The way, way back.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_04: She knew me when I was uh a young 18-year-old Bebe.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_04: Bebe.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_04: And um she's also a licensed acupuncturist here in our beautiful neighborhood of Seminole Heights.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_04: She owns Living Harmony Healing Center.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_04: And we wanted to have her on the pod because she's doing something pretty awesome.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_04: She is doing something pretty awesome.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_04: She's lighting up the awesome fire.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_04: She is.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_04: She doesn't even know what that means.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_04: We're gonna find out in this podcast right now.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_04: So Becky.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_04: We wanted to have you on to talk about this academic paper you just wrote.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_04: I know.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_04: For this conference.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_04: So exciting.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_04: In Paris.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_04: It's so exciting.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_04: A physics conference.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_04: It's crazy.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um who would have thought?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_04: I know.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_04: So um where can I where shall we begin?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: How did you guys meet?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, how did we meet?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we met through our mutual friends, Jill and Jeff.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't remember how you met them.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think something about USF.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_04: I met them at the bull market uh at USF.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_04: They had a little uh weekly market on Wednesdays, and they were selling hemp clothes.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_04: Of course they were.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_04: And I I made a beeline straight for the people selling the hemp clothes.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_04: Of course you did.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_04: In my barking stacks.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: In this desert, hippie desert you lived in.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_04: Totally.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_04: And yeah, I got on their um email list.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I got on their email list.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_04: They sent on an email.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_04: They were gonna have a they were gonna have a hemp party at their house on uh Fern Street over there by um the school.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_04: And I said, Hey mom, there's this, you know, this cool couple, they have a hemp, they're gonna have a hemp party.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_04: You want to go?
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_04: And she was like, I was living at home at the time.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_04: She was like, Yeah, so we drive down there.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_04: We're the only two people that show up.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_04: So we're basically just hanging out with them.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_04: Right, right.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_04: Jeff played records, you know, it was made he made uh uh garlic, roasted garlic hummus, the chef that he is, and um yeah, and then I met um their friend Penny, your friend Penny.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember we met, they had a party Christmas that year, and you and Penny had gone to the performing arts center.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_04: Y'all were dressed up, you had just gone to the performing arts center for, I don't know, the nutcracker or something.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_04: I don't remember.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_04: And y'all came and we hung out and they had that singing bowl, and I was obsessed with that singing bowl.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_04: And you were like, You've never had an acupuncture needle?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_04: And on their couch, you gave me my first, you're like, it's fine, it's thinner than a hair.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_04: Like, here, give me your hand.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_04: Boom, boom, boom.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_04: And then voila, I had my first acupuncture treatment.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_04: Very nice.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: Does she cry like a baby?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_03: I don't remember.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_04: No, I only do that for you.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_04: She does have much chat.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_04: She does.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_04: And I also worked at Becky's place for years.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_04: So if you saw me back in the early parts of my career.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_04: And I lived at Becky's history.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so there's a long history.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_04: There's a long history.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_03: And also it's full transparency.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_04: And here we sit in a house that you bought from Jeff and Joe.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's right.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_04: Pen Penny and Becky and I came to their house blessing after they bought this house, and I rolled up to this house, and I was like, dang, I want to get a house like that someday.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_04: Literally, I had that thought.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_04: And and now we are in the living room.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_04: It's always been a great house.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_04: Where we did a house blessing right there.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: Even when I pulled up, I was like, oh, this house.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_04: It's a good house.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_04: It is.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_04: It's cottage.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_04: Totally.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_04: All right, but this podcast is not about our the riveting history of our friendship, although we could totally do a podcast on ours and synchronicities and all of that.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um I do feel like that's been a big part of it.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_04: But we are here to talk about.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_04: What are we here to talk about?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_04: You want to give us like a basic introduction?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Sh well, I mean, this came about because I am going to Paris for the first time ever in uh just less than two weeks to talk at the Constructail Law Conference.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so the Construct Law Conference.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's the 16th year of it, but the Constructable Law was articulated 30 years ago this year by a professor at Duke, Dr.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: Adrian Bijan, who actually escaped communist Romania and went to MIT.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, he escaped communist Romania through the basketball team and then uh then like went to MIT and like has numbers named after him.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is a real scientist.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_04: Numbers.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like he's written so many books about thermodynamics.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: So he's he's a professor of thermodynamics.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um which I suspect is part of why uh I mean, I don't know.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder it's I wonder how many like scientific, you know, some scientific breakthroughs take a long time to become established and accepted.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so 30 years isn't that long in that context.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Got it.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: But because he's not a physicist or if you know, that's not he doesn't come from that field, posture uh articulating a new law of physics is like they're like, yeah, sure.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: But um it's because he comes from the world of thermodynamics, and so that's where oh that's why I got there.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: He's written tons of books about thermodynamics.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: He's incredibly um cited because that field is very specific.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um, how did you get involved?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_04: So I feel like it was like you you stumbled across this idea.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, well, speaking about flow, so uh really quickly for your audience, I guess I'll say what the construct a law is, which and I'm gonna paraphrase, I think, uh, that the idea is that any system that persists through time must find greater and greater access for what flows within it or through it.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um my goodness.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's a law because that's just stated simply, and obviously it can get complicated really quickly when you do the math.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_04: Um I actually have this in here, if I may, read that.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_04: It took me a couple times to be like, okay, wait, what is this saying?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_04: So you write in this paper that the constructural constructal law states for a finite size system to persist in time, meaning to live, its configuration must evolve in such a way that provides easier access to the currents that flow through it.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_04: And you later go on to say that this design this design features that design features morph and evolve to allow for greater access to its currents.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_04: Correct.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_04: What does that mean?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like well it's I mean, uh without getting into like the the math, because that's not what I do, but the the concept is part of it's why um it's really the first scientific reason we have for what people originally want to call intelligent design.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because it is because of the nature of physics, the things that flow, and this the the law um applies to uh animate and inanimate systems uh because both of those things have flow, but it's why um a river delta looks like a circulatory system, looks like a tree branching, looks like you know what I mean, like the whole fractal nature of the universe is that what you're doing.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: And not just that, but the the literal constraints of physics force things to flow in such a way that it finds the easiest path.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: And for the greater and like when you think about like a river delta, again, that is not a static thing, it's not a series of poured concrete canals.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's constantly flowing to find the best way to flow.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's that design is always evolving.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: And the same is true with like so urban planning, right?
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Those designs are always evolving, and yeah, ideally you're doing this with intentionality, and um but yeah, so it's so right, it's broadly applied, and that's kind of what's interesting with the conference because it started within the realm of thermodynamics, the those are the first people that adopted it.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a very science-heavy field.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: But as but because it is universal, more and more fields like the conference has grown every year as more and more fields are like, oh, you could look at my thing from this point of view.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so now you've got people looking at like planning, but I mean there's still plenty of the thermodynamic stuff.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm taking all of Tuesday off the conference because I don't need any of that.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, shout out to your day.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, like I don't need anything about like cooling chips and you know, real real thermodynamic engineering.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: I call that day for you, the Red Beret Day.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: I actually already have an appointment to get my hair blown out the day before my presentation.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: So nice.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, my point is is like people are there from economics and urban planning and education and even historical things.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like at one of the one of the so in my presentation, uh, I talk about the three different ways to construct.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: That blew my mind.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and so historical development is one of them.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: You can look at anything.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Last year at the conference I went to, um, somebody presented a paper about the flow of the Jewish diaspora as you know, and so right, so it it continues to grow.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_04: So geo geographically.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and the forces that like also different constraints that force different things to flow in different ways, and there are consequences to that everywhere.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's really interesting stuff.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_03: So what was the moment when when you were like, holy shit, this is tr this is traditional Chinese medicine?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's right how I first started about the flow thing.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, and how traditional Chinese like how did you Well, so funny enough, and that is why I was like, speaking of flow, um I had had brain surgery.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I was literally having a flow issue in my brain that was fixed with surgery.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I was laying on my mom's, I spent a month at my mom's recovering, and I have tons of science books or science magazines, and I was reading one of them.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: I read a review for his book at the time, which was The Physics of Life that had just come out.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: And um was like, oh my god.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think I read an interview with him about the book.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just like, oh my god, this is what I've been talking about, with you know, everything's connected with the flow.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: And for to me, because this is the first real Western science to hang what we do on, what you can hang Chinese medicine on, um, but but only partly because obviously it's about flow.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's no question this is a parallel thing.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and at the time I got really excited about, and this part I'll just really briefly because you know some of the story, but I got super excited about this idea after my brain surgery because when we talked about like re-establishing flow, I was just like brimming with like ideas and excitement after having been very suppressed for a couple of years through creativity.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_04: I remember that time.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_04: That was terrible.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um but and then also in the process of like getting deeper into the idea of like I was like, I'm gonna write a book and I'm gonna do all this thing.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: And um, but then realized like, oh no, I need to really actually get more of my body.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: I've been in my head long enough.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: I do not need to be more in my head right now.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: Let's get, you know, we'll put this aside.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Even though I had reached out to Dr.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Bajan and like we had had, I'd even gone up to do to spend a day with him talking about his ideas, and he was very encouraging to he should write and all this sort of stuff.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um so when I decided not to do it, I not to write the book not write the book.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of had that moment of like, is this gonna nag my, like nag me in the back of my head why I should like should I should do this?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's some flow that needs to happen.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: At the time I was like, no, I'm I'm okay with that.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's fine, like I'll let it go.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: But nevertheless, I had left a little inbox in my uh email that had that was called Book Stuff where all of the exchanges I had had with Dr.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: Bichan were um and so this passed set like a year ago in September when I got back from Belize after deciding I was gonna move there, I got into real declutter mode and was like going through everything and that included my inbox.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so I opened this this file and I'm looking through these emails.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: And um back in 2018, he had sent me this link to the conference at the time, but it was in Boogrest.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, I'm not going to that.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I clicked on it last September to just piped and like, oh, you know, am I gonna do anything with this anymore?
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Should I look at this?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: And the link to the cop was like, What where's the conference this year?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: I clicked on the link, and it was in Miami in like a month.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_04: Right, yes.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh shit, obviously I'm supposed to go to that talking about synchronicities.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I go and just as a private citizen, even filling out the registration form was funny because they're like, What who are you with?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, me.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: And um and just went and listened.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: But that's where um Dr.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Miller introduced the biogenic principle for the very first time.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that made me feel like without this piece, like the last 10 years were not for nothing.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't have done this without this piece.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because before this, the construct a law, while and uh in my paper and in my presentation, it's always it conforms to or it adheres to or it reflects because it's all a metaphor and analogy because we don't know how to measure qi yet.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: But just because you don't know how to measure qi doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: Do you think qi and flow are synonymous in this model?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yes.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh in this model, but that doesn't mean that's the only thing either one of them are.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_03: So then do you think do you think that you had a flow established that was associated with the the energy of this paper, for example?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like if we were to just sort of like analyze that.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, interesting, yeah.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_03: The energy of the paper that was within you.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: This is part of why I'm here.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like what is it?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and how and how then somehow you get this idea just to clean out your inbox.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's like the flow didn't stop, right?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: So it reminds me of the thing.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and actually to me, it's more like dormant, because it wasn't like pushing at me.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_04: It was just waiting for that moment to Well, and like if the inbox is full, then you wouldn't you might not have seen the thing.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_04: So it's like you had to clear out the inbox to see that.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_04: I know.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_04: I'm talking about myself.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, yes, yes.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_04: I'm I'm giving myself a pep talk to clean out my inbox, which I literally put on my list this morning.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_04: But just as a as a like, it's like things were cleared out.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like sometimes when we clearly, yeah.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's it's kind of like uh what we've been doing in the house with moving sh the great stuff shuffle, as I call it.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: But I guess what I was wondering is is it possible that the energy, like let's just say the energy of the paper, the qi of the paper, was lying dormant, gathering strength.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know what I mean?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, building totally.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's just it's just an obvious way my brain thinks, right?
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like kind of like like um when I was in TCM school, um, my teachers were all from China, and they'd love to use the word carbuncle.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: Carbuncle.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: Carbuncle instead of pimple or whatever.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_03: They use the word carbuncle.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_03: And so it makes it sound much harder.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: It does.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's not just a zit, right, right.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's a carbuncle.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: But anyway, you know that whole process where like that is blocked, and then the body creates this pressure behind it.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_03: Or like if you have a splinter and it's blocked, you know.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_03: I've had a splinter in the bottom of my foot, it my my body will push it out.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: It can literally create material to push it out.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, when I eat things that upset my stomach, I have mechanism.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing is not flow.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Everything is flowing.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: Everything is flow.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like, you know, when you have uh upside-down qi, you you qi qi reversed and you vomit, right?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_03: That is because your qi's supposed to go down, but there's something that's blocking that, that's poison or the Rebellious chi.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: Rebellious qi.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: Your chi's like, fuck you, I'm coming out of your nose now.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, but it's actually not even so much fuck you, it's that something has disrupted the popper way of that chi's flow.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's like, mm-hmm, I'm building up.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: More like fuck this.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's like fuck this, I'm going out the other way.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it's choice.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: I have to move somewhere.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_03: So maybe it's not personal, which is which is a which is a really interesting sort of statement immediately about like.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: Don't take your chi personally.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_03: Well, right, about like not self and how it ends up.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_04: Well Yeah.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_03: So then so then the pressure builds up.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: You look in the inbox, and then and then it the and then it's in Miami.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: And so the the energy's like, that's where we're going.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Just it's all flowing together.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_03: As long as I keep listening and sh to what shows up, then so that synchronicity then is uh is a is an exp is a is a moment where the the energy of the flow is manifest in the physical world.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but it also takes you have to be receptive to it too.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's only meaningful to you.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_03: It wouldn't have been meaningful to somebody else.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_03: It would have been.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well not only that, but I also had to respond to it.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like I could have been like, eh, I can I don't have time.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_04: Is that part of that two-way thing that you talk about on the bio?
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so this is what's fun about this idea to me is that especially in Dr.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: Miller's The Biogeneric Principle, this is strongly scientific.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like there is this is not a metaphor in any way, shape, or form.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: But it certainly could be the way we can make this a metaphor across the board, sure.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_04: Well, this is why this really fits with the series that we're doing currently with the body, where we're talking about different parts of the body and you know, certain certainly physical parts of those, but then also the metaphor symp symbolic parts of them.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um so just to just to like circle back and make sure our listeners are are following along.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_04: We've got these two it from what I can tell, it's like first you have two ideas, yes.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, the constructal law, and you're like, huh.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_04: This is a big idea.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_04: This sounds really similar to Chinese medicine.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_04: And also um we're still in a phase with Chinese medicine in the West where like we're trying to figure out how it works.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean if you're trying to look yes, I'll just say it's a good idea.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_04: And there are some you point out some problems where where not not problems, but it's like it the science hasn't been doing that quite yet, and this is a way that that we can.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean so it has its own explanation in its own framework.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: But everybody from a Western scientist's point of view, whether you're in China or here, doesn't know how it works yet.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_04: So we've got the constructal law, and then we've got this biogenic principle that we'll talk about in a minute.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_04: I want to circle back to a question that I had about the constructal law, which is this idea of flow.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_04: Where is it in my notes?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so this relationship.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_04: So the constructal law works both physiologically, like these things in the body that are creating flow.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_04: But then you also have this part in here about there's emotional and intellectual flows, um, flows that what we're expressing or trying to suppress, which relates to a lot of the things we talked about in episode 39, I think it was, about trauma in the body.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_04: But it this idea of also uh you say fittingly, we are most fulfilled when our energy flow when our energy flows are directed towards meaningful personal connections, expressing our creativity and giving back to the world around us.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_04: You just cited Becky to Becky.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah, that's my plan.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: But but what what I want to kind of I'm getting here to find the person you actually cited.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's number two.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's number three.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Number three, okay.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, that's not a quote of something you wrote, it's a quote from somebody else that you that was in the paper.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: I see.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I see.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's number three who is uh that comes from and actually I met Kim Kingsley last year at the conference in Miami.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_04: We'll um include is this a book?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's the energy wellness blueprint.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: We'll include that in the show.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's a fantastic book, especially because you're right, it's using the idea of the construct law, construct a law and flow, and she's actually a psychologist, so she's gonna she speaks to it far better than I could in a way that's like you coherent.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: What's the name of that book again?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Energy Wellness Blueprint.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_04: So what this reminded me of Kimberly Kingsley.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_04: What this reminded me of is this quote I just heard recently from Maya Angelou, who says that you can't use up creativity.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: The more you use it, the more you have.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: Hell yeah, that makes sense to me.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just that relate.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_04: And so I don't know.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_04: I find that just so compelling.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's like if if there's flow there and you make more space for flow, then then more comes in.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_03: Then then more flows.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and honestly, this part of the the It's like self-generating.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, to me, it's it's very obvious how there are physical systems in your body that flow that need to be flowing constantly to make sure you're alive, your heart, your limbs, everything.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, peeing.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: But that 100%.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and so right, and an example of how this also applies to our psychology and our emotions and everything.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's everything is flow.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that applies there too.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_04: So here you got a law of physics, this new law of physics that's affirming what you already know through Chinese medicine.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_04: Correct, yeah.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_04: You see a problem that we're that the Western world is trying to um we don't know, yes, prove solve, figure out.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, that's the nature of scientific inquiry.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: What is the nature, like what is the truth, and how does this actually work?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so even though I come from a science background, like as a family, I wasn't raised with religion or anything, the philosophy of Chinese medicine is extremely compelling in terms of the nature of biological or nature of well, nature, period.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: So the nature of nature.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, right.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it I mean if you know anything about Taoism, it is it is awesome.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say that just sounds like Taoism.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_04: Actually, I wrote that the one the the one becomes two, becomes the many.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_04: So somewhere in the sun here.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh, that's a one becomes the two, becomes the three, becomes the ten thousand things.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_03: Something like that.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_03: Somewhere I wrote that in here.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_03: I forget where.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's like one thing I think just to summarize this in a way for for myself, is that what I'm picking up is that it's like ancient Chinese medicine observes something very accurately.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_03: But we don't have the modern vocabulary.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_03: Correct.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, I mean it's it's for explaining it.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: They're the how close they got to reality is incredibly impressive, especially using.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_04: What do you mean who's they ancient Chinese scholars?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's fascinating too.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: The the the origins of Chinese medicine are all really murky, like in terms of how like yin yang really emerges out of like primitive clan culture philosophy.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: It is very nature-based and phenomenology-based.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's no gods, you're just watching how things flow and evolve or un evolve.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_04: You're just observing, yeah, noticing.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's no uh like judgment or whatever else that would go along with it.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's really just observational.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I forget where was going on with that.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh in terms of like what things really are.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think there's this this difference between experimental science and experiential science.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like the experiential sciences of basically Asia, right?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's like what people in in China were realizing, what what was being realized in India is kind of simultaneously.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_03: These yogis were hanging out, right?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_03: Paying a lot paying very close attention to their body, to the nature of reality.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_03: And they were paying attention to the nature of reality because they wanted to be closer to reality.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: They wanted to understand the truth.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: For their own really for their yeah, for their own spiritual reasons.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_03: And then it's so cool to me how ethics get involved in Confucianism and the culture gets involved.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's like you talk about the flow in the beginnings of it, there's this kind of shamanistic, we're observing the energy, the dragon, you know, right.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the first when I mentioned like the historical development, the first like archaeological stuff are like markings on tortoise shelves.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_03: You know, yeah.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it's it's so cool.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_03: And then how, as civilizations are growing, and I mean China's like the it's amazing to me when I look back at the history.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, China had had a booming restaurant culture six thousand years ago.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's like there's so much history from the east.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that this is, I mean, just on an off topic in terms of flow, it's like all that information's been sitting over there, and then the internet arrives, and it's like, sorry, that's probably gonna sound terrible on the thing.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_03: But you know what I mean?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's like the internet arrives, and now it's like the the democratization of this information from the other, you know, from the east.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_03: We're really getting a lot of things.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I went to school with kids wearing a yin-yang symbol on their shirt.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's like a fire hose.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: They'll have a tattooed on their bodies all over the place.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: It's like a fire hose now.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we it's it's like yeah, yeah, it's it's it's like it it's coming.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, you're right.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and is that is that part of this constructor law?
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_04: Is that dissemination of information?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um again, you can look at that's the crazy thing about it.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: You can look at anything through this lens.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_04: Amazing.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, without forcing it even.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_04: What has what has spending time thinking about this lens and looking at things through this lens taught you about your own life?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_03: That's a great question.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just thinking about what it what it w how has your experience of your own life shifted or changed?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, not dramatically, but in the sense that it does feel very um validating in a way that I mean I've always been interested in these really esoteric topics and like just for my own interest.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: And yet at the same time, I don't know anybody else that I interact with socially that reads anywhere near as much science as I do either.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so you smart if that's just it's just well, it's just an intersection of my two favorite topics.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so it it's like, oh, okay, well, that makes more sense why I've been because this also does feel like this is what I've partly here to do.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like as far as I can tell on the internet, I might be the first person who's ever put acupuncture in the constructor law together.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_04: And that that's that and that Which is crazy.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_04: Is yeah, that just to be clear on like what you're doing with this paper in this presentation.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_04: You're you're not like, oh, here I have proved acupuncture.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_04: It's more of like, here's I have an idea about how maybe we could.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, guess what, guys?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_04: Here's uh somebody else, uh, step in.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_04: I did the legwork for you.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: But look, these things are connected.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and actually in my presentation at one point when I would talk about the um so in the constructor law, and I encourage anybody who's really interested to read more about it because I am not the best ambassador for the real science of it.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the math and all that beyond me.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I'm just told like how our thermo how does this relate to thermodynamics?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you're able to give Well, thermodynamics is really just environmental flux, like hot and cold.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_04: Oh.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: And the different forces that are at work in our pl in our lives.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: So when I say thermodynamics, the engineering a lot of that has come from like trying to figure out how to make things that get too hot cooler.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_04: Uh-huh.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: How to cool a car engine.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: Or a computer chip.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_04: Or like, or like when you're in a data center.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_04: You can't put all that in the pan.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_04: You're crowding the pan, it's everything's not gonna cook evenly.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I'm assuming that's thermodynamics.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_03: Don't crowd the pan.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Especially the cast iron.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I believe that.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not fucking with that at all.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_03: You want something nice and brown.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_03: Don't crowd the pan.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm now thinking that would that would restrict the flow.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_04: And once you show it, I start to think about it.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's everywhere for sure.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like everything is about like, is it flowing properly?
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: Is it but it's also, I mean, there's so many layers of it.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, whether it's timing too.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I didn't feel any pressure building in my inbox or that that folder on my inbox.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: This is where I think it comes together.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_03: I have pressure building in my inbox.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_03: I'm at 90% capacity.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, Gmail tells me every day.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_03: Pressure building in my inbox is a really interesting euphemism for all types of things.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I I think that um it's like uh last year I had a root canal.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, like this infection must have been brewing.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_03: It was for a long time than before I felt it.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: And then when I first felt it, I was like, it's gotta be this new mouth guard.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_03: It can't possibly be the tooth itself.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I I I misattributed it.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: In the meantime, the pressure continues to build.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_03: So that by the time I get in to the endodontist and he and he's in there with the drill, he's going, zzz, zzz, and then he goes, zzz, and then he goes, Oh my god.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: Just an abscess or something.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: Huge abscess.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_04: And then we got you got in on a pride.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_04: He was like, You would not have lost it.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, you would have ended up in the ER.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_03: I could have been skeptic.
• 31:11
  unknown: Yeah.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_03: But I wouldn't have known it.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean, it's so interesting how pressure can be felt but not known, or known but not felt, how it's in the unconscious.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: Cool.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: And the whole thing about the unconscious in general and flow, that's kind of where I was going with this whole thing about the synchronicity.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_03: And how the synchronic like it kind of just this this works with Jungian theory in a way, because he talked about like synchronicity as this moment where the psychoid level, which is the unconscious, like breaks into our current consciousness in a way that is only meaningful for us.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's what he said a synchronicity is.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: Where two things come together that don't.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you turn on the radio and it's the song.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_04: And that song may not be a good idea.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: And synchronicity obviously have to be personal.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: So technically, you going into your inbox wasn't so much as the synchronicity as it was a resonance.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_03: And so there's something about resonance and flow and synchronicity and the unconscious mind that all kind of go together.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I would not recommend an abscess tooth to learn that lesson.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so I mean that makes me think about again, all right, so we're also getting to the biogenic principle part of it.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because that, I mean, the the construct a law as a metaphor and an analogy that you can see all over the place is very simple.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: Flow, is it flowing or not?
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: It blocks, like that you can find that everywhere.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: The biogenic principle, so it is it's it's it's interesting to me because it's stated the way he states it, Dr.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: Miller, uh, is that there is no such thing in biological systems, there's no such thing as a unilateral flow of information.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_04: What would be an example of a unilateral flow?
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: It just goes one way, and it just goes one way, right.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually asked him, I was like, what do you why is it phrased like this?
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I suspected, and I was right.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that the answer is that it's a counterargument to the current state of evolution dogma about evolution, which is that our DNA and RNA are one-way uh uh uh uh flows of information from uh gene to expression that only change over long periods of time through random mutation.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that is the that is the current and that's never really made any sense.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why would it be random mutation?
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's never made any sense to me.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: Instead, uh incognitive so the idea is that the cell is the basis of cognition.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: And and I do say in my presentation that like information theory is beyond the scope of my presentation.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually beyond the scope of me talking about it right now either.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I hope anybody who is really interested, um, Dr.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Miller's book is cognition-based evolution, and it's uh incredibly layman-friendly if you at least have a passing understanding of some science literature kind of thing.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it does a really good job of explaining why the cell becomes the first basis of cognition, and it's all about the ambiguity of information.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: A cell has to assess the information it gets, uh-huh, decide if it's worthwhile or not.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to differentiate between noise and valuable information.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then you have to make choices, you have to evaluate those choices and continuously, forever.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then you responding to those choices is part of the the evolution of your design.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: You are literally making yourself as you go.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so if that works on us, so this argument and all the science again has been done about I mean it's a theory still, but it makes a lot of sense to me.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um it starts with the cell, but uh then you could take it metaphorically, in my opinion.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like this still works as a metaphor, it goes all the way up to like, or not even it doesn't even have to be a metaphor.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: I need to learn a lot more about it.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_04: It sounds like that sounds like the nervous system.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_04: You know, the nervous system is continuously taking in a bunch of information from the environment.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_04: Where you know it it's deciding or something is deciding what to bring into my consciousness.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and so the argument is that a cell is where this starts because once it makes this information, then it has to create a memory about it.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: And all of this information is self-generated, even in a cell.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so you are forming, so even the cell is forming its own definition of reality based on the experience it's having, and then building upon that.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: Its own self-referential, constantly reciprocating experience.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: They're such narcissists, aren't they?
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it only gets worse from there as it gets and so multicellularity then occurs as you are trying to maximize the flow of information.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that's right.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: In the biogenic principle, this idea of dual flows in the constructive law, you have everything is subject to the constraints of physical the physics.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like you throw the in the environment, everybody you're forced by nature.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: For a biological system, you have to manage the dual flows of both the thermodynamic flux of the environment and biology, but also the cellular need to maximize the flow of information.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: So the cell always needs more information, and then it needs to check that information, and multicellularity then occurs as we're like, hey, what's your information?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then you start getting together.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: Cells get smarter.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: Cells get smarter and build networks to get more accurate information, and then that just builds from there.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_03: So maybe that's what acupuncture channels are.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so think about the meridians of G.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, not just that, but so it's two different things.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think um, I mean, I don't know if you saw a bunch of people sent me this article that the uh research just came out this past summer about the interstitium.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: And oh let's talk about that.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my phone blew up.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: Blew up.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: See, this is why what you do are.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: And we're all like, yeah, we know.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, you might know.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: But between that and the fascia, I I think it's just because it's not easily monetized, is why these things aren't getting more attention.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: But the fascia and the interstitium seem like very obvious avenues for physical substrates of the acupuncture meridians.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: They seem like analog analogous systems overlapping, and we're just calling them different things.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas then the biogenic principle offers you a conceptual framework for the informational processes that create acupuncture's biomechanical effects.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: So these are two separate things, but together might actually finally offer a big picture explanation of Chinese medicine, which is what we don't have.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I talk about this in the paper.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: We have, you know, acupuncture research mostly falls into two categories either finding out if it helps a particular issue, of which there are mountains of evidence for whatever you want to look for, or how it what what kind of biomechanical effects happen from receiving acupuncture, which are all downstream.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's what happens after.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: And uh actually uh this just this past year, recently, very recently, um a group of research universities in China suggested making acupuncture biomechanics its own interdisciplinary field so you can start to systematically clarify the how acupuncture-induced biomechanical stimuli propagate through tissues and then the distinct cell populations that mechano-transduce those signals.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_03: So, in other words, how can putting a needle in somebody's toe web between their big toe and second toe, for example, right, help them with a headache when that part is very far away from their head.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_03: And as of right now, we cannot tell you.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_03: That's exactly what you're talking about.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, is that that it would that would answer that question?
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's the other one.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_03: It could, it could, yeah.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_03: It could, it could explain how those cells in the toe are intelligent about pain in the head.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_03: And it has to do with the the generative flow and the way that the flow of energy within the body has created that body that you're that is currently laying on the table.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_03: And so then what you talk about next, and I'm just trying to paraphrase you in a very simple way, because I I I think it's really cool.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's a very, very cool way of thinking about it.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_03: I'm digging it.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_03: So then in that way, then you talk in the paper about the needle becoming like an in an an inf information.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's a form of information, yeah.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: In the same way the body knows how to do something with that we don't understand why or how it knows how to do that.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: Is it but we don't know what it interprets that as, but it interprets it somehow, and then effects happen.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_03: Right, and that was and there are different kinds of biomechanical effects all over the place.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_03: Right, which was discovered experientially, if I if I remember correctly.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's like started with acupressure, and then there are these early.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: There are these early stone needles.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I remember seeing series where you know these early stone, you know, kind of like pressurized and truthfully, we don't really know how all these things like we like it could be experience, it could be somebody went deep in a meditated trance and saw that sort of realized who knows.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: Also, it's probably built up over thousands of years.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_04: Like I mean, we have like the So that's a collection of information and the it's like the biogenic effect.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I know that's there's that metaphor part of it.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you know, yeah.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_04: The subtle the subtle body is what this is the metaphor.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_04: And that's been explained.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I was thinking more historic that the the history can be also be a metaphor.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_04: This is the biogenic principle is a metaphor for the history of the development of acupuncture in the same way that you're talking about the constructional law shows these geographic um developments of movements.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I don't know.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know, but it's like I just keep thinking of like layers of metaphors in the entire thing.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: The thing that's interesting about the information idea, and again, that's why I'm like, I am not an expert.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: I can tell that just by doing like I a year ago, this paper was not even an idea.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: So like I'm gonna be learning about all these things for the foreseeable future.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um but the the idea that so the cell's genome, which is like basically this its surface external apparatus for assessing its immediate environment.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_04: That creates it's is that like a part of the cell wall?
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like literally it's all the stuff on the outside that's like doing all the cell or whatever.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's all kinds of proteins and whatnot doing all sorts of stuff out there.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: And deciding what it wants to accept or not, or whatever it's gonna do.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so the genome is what he's I mean, these are all theoretical ideas, but he's called it the genome, is that external apparatus that creates what he's calling the pervasive information field around the cell.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: But then that overlaps with other cells' pervasive information field.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: And what you have is this aggregate system for communication and exchange that gets larger and larger, and then again, theoretically, that becomes an organism-wide epicenome.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's nothing to say that energetically this doesn't then overlap with yours.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: And before you go, where does it stop?
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't, right?
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: The ten thousand things.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_03: The ten thousand things.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_03: One becomes the two, the two becomes the three.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_03: That's exactly it.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_03: As I was listening to your own.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so it could even become like a scientific explanation for like psychic phenomena, technically.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and that's what I was kind of thinking because you'd also have to you also have to be a vessel that's receptive to the information that's around you.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_04: Well, that goes back to my interest in creativity.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_04: Also.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_04: If you're an opening, you know, to be an open an open vessel so that that that can flow.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it has the ability and time and space and the privilege and all that kind of stuff.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_03: Totally.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_03: Totally.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_03: I know a lot of I mean, I know we've been talking about Jung a little bit.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_03: I just was remembering something, and then some some I have a copy of Jung's Red Book on in my office.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's the the first edition one, and it has all these amazing pieces of art that he did, and his handwritten calligraphy, and this was his confrontation with the unconscious.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's a very, very cool book, you know.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_03: And it's all of this amazing work that he did in the body of, you know, just in a couple years when he was in his mid-30s.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's incredible how prolific he was.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_03: And a client of mine recently said, you know, where did he find the time?
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Yeah, his wife was the second richest woman in Switzerland.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_03: That's why.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: He did not wash his clothes.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_03: He didn't know.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_03: He didn't wash his clothes.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_03: He didn't do his dishes.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_03: He wasn't.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_03: Never did he make a meal.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: Boil an egg.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think so.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I I know he did like to go to Bollingen and cook his own food.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: He chop his own wood and make his own eggs and he was doing that's it.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_03: He was doing it on purpose.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's an experience, not a necessity.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_03: So he's for fun.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_03: Back to back to your whole thing about having the time, the energy, and the privilege to engage in creativity.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it it's like it is a thing.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: When I look at the program for this conference coming up, everybody on this program is like from a university or an institute or whatever.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just sometimes extra time in my own little office to.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: But that's I mean, but that's how actually that's how a lot of artists happen.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: They're just somebody like who's like, I've got an idea.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_03: You're totally Matt Damon and Goodwill hunting in the M.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: not go that far, but again, as long as you don't give me any map.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: You're sneaking in there solving the equations.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it is surprising to me that nobody, especially in China, has I mean, again, I it just it more than anything, it speaks to me about the fact that like scientific ideas take time to spread.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: And especially if they're not monetizable, even harder harder.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's it.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_03: They're busy building robots.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and listen, no, I mean figuring out why Chinese medicine doesn't work.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_03: In China, they're just like, we know it works.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_03: So it's freer?
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_03: Who gets it?
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_03: We know it works.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_03: They don't have to figure it out.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: Although they are doing a lot of actual research there for sure.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:47
  unknown: Yeah.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I wouldn't even be know how to begin to suggest a study for what I've suggested.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_03: I have a feeling.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_03: No, but I think I have a feeling someone will.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think that's all I'm doing.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_04: You're building this from other papers, but I'm thinking about this in terms of and I don't want to necessarily go on an AI tangent, but it's like I I do the more that AI is in our lives.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_04: The more that AI is in our lives, the more the AI is in my lives.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_04: I'm thinking about it.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um and it's like there are there there are pluses.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_04: I have found pluses with AI.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_04: But also we need freaking humans thinking about things.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like I mean, personally, I want AI to be my Star Trek computer, that I just go computer, and otherwise it can shut off.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean, Earl Grey Hot.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_04: Like that would be really nice.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_04: Why do we not have that now?
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_04: Well, that's a whole problem.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_04: We need some thermodynamics to be able to figure that out.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_03: Well, but I mean, this comes the I mean, what you're talking about is you know constraint the law.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_03: Constraint is part of it constraint is the law.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_03: Just to bring it back to construct a law.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: You had no constraints, you'd just be a blob.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_03: Chicken farm.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_04: That relates to creativity for me too.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what type of chicken farm?
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: That character.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: I love that cartoon.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_02: All these like spluted out chickens, you know.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: They are not experiencing any stress, no.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they are.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, there's lots of inflammation happening, probably.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_03: But I mean, things will constrain AI.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it might be that the entire planet blows up and that's the end of it.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_03: But I mean, if we pull the plug, it'll restrain AI.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: We could constrain AI ourselves.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: We'll just choose to do that.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: If you well, if will the constructal law come into place here?
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: What we're what was she saying?
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_03: If you apply, then it will be constrained.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: Not necessarily.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: It could have could have its own flow that I mean I don't know.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: It could be a flood.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it yeah, it well if it's Maybe it's gonna be the next flood.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean we just keep making ourselves stupider.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_04: Well, yeah.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean solving all our problems for us.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: Eventually it yeah.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and that's why I feel like it's a lot of people.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_03: So you think we would have to constrain it?
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's not gonna constrain itself.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: What was the last time a reg a corporation regulated itself?
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's not a good idea.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: Did the cops do an investigation of their own behavior and found they were did nothing wrong?
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: By the way.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: We did look into myself and it turns out I was fine.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: It turns out I'm amazing.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: It turns out I was killing it.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's all your fault.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, whatever.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_03: Turns out it's all your fault.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_04: I have this um freewheeling is what we're calling this.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_04: I have this other I want to go back to this idea of the the greater access.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_04: So this goes back to um with the definition of constructal law and how um I'm I I'm gonna try and paraphrase it as best as I can, but um, I want to say natural phenomenon, let's say in a very broad term, that natural phenomenon follows this constructal law where it's going to uh morph and evolve to allow greater access to what flows within it.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_04: And then you say something over here around, and maybe this is a quote, or maybe I think it's you nothing persists over time if it doesn't find greater access for what flows within it, in this case, useful medical knowledge that facilitates better human lives.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_04: So you were saying that this is part of the that's the beginning tie to traditional Chinese medicine and construct a law.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just really struck, and this is maybe a poetic understanding of what you're saying, but this idea of greater access I'm really struck by seeing greater access and then useful medical knowledge that facilitates human lives.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_04: What do you think Western medicine can learn by providing greater access for medical knowledge that better human lives?
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_04: Like, am I just making a crazy sort of like weird connection?
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_04: But I'm just like, I think there's some gold in here.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what can we learn from this?
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we could learn to remove some blocks and end the private insurance system.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_04: I mean that that's exactly where my mind goes, is like it's like wow, we're like, Why don't we take out the middleman who's taking all your money?
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_04: Totally.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_04: And then you have more money to like pay for things that insurance won't pay for.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, why mean why is insurance not paying for it?
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because some new dude needs a fourth house.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_03: I just heard recently that there have been less insurance claims filed this year in general.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like insurance claim uh it's it's down by 2030.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: I would compare that to how many people have lost their insurance.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's why it's because people it's because people lost their insurance, but it's but it's also that they have new plants that they don't understand and they're not so right, this whole issue is.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and I know this has gotten kind of like cynical, but there's plenty of reason to be.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_04: And there's plenty of reason to be, but there's something about the construction to construct a law on it phrase like that just kind of gives me a little bit of hope.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_04: Well I mean a little bit of hope that like greater access will prevail somehow, some way.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: No, well, I mean it's never somehow, some way.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's always through a lot of hard work and effort and some sacrifice.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I mean, the other thing is too, I I think I I I was I was starting to make an assumption that everything that flowed was positive.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_03: Ah Not necessarily.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: There's the road.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I guess it depends on what's going on.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_01: How are we defending, right?
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, I am a virus.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I'm trying to spread to as many people, then huzzah.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, I'm coming at you know.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_04: No math, no process.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_03: You just busted out a huzzah.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: I did.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't break any glasses though.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: So good.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_03: Or, you know, I mean, just think about it.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: Or well, misinformation, misinformation is a form of information flow.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and actually, well, you then right, God, that'd be another interesting way to examine any of this, like the velocity of misinformation versus truth.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: And if you look at that from a construct a law perspective, probably find misinformation travels much faster, I bet.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_03: What I would imagine is that I don't know if this is true, but I kind of imagine based on my own relationship with my body, like when I have a positively charged emotion.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_03: Jack's being he's a mean kitty.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_03: He's a mean kitty.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_03: Becky's like, get off the table.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_03: I will not tolerate it.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_06: I would not take cat face.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_03: This cat's been intimidating me for the last eight years.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_03: So well, but it's um talking about it.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what if Okay, so you know how things are have positive emotional charge?
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like you I'm I'm thinking and feeling positively and grateful about something, or something has a negative emotional charge, I'm thinking and feeling negatively about something.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_03: And how that emotional charge sometimes I mean, is that part of what affects flow?
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_04: Uh huh.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_04: Cause you talk about like expressing or suppressing.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_04: So I mean, I'm more likely to express a positive emotion, I'm more likely to suppress a negative emotion.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: But then does a negative emotion then hurt any more because you have suppressed it?
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's just it's I mean, I think so.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's so nuanced.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's gonna be situational too.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like I mean, I mean, sometimes it's good not to blow up at somebody.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: But that doesn't mean it's a clean fuel source for all the things that are.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: It can also be violent.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: Or like empathy gone too far becomes, you know, pity, self-sacrifice or martyrdom or something.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so then it becomes about the right the way, the middle path.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_04: The w the way.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_04: So there we go.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_04: Back to Buddhism.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: Harmony.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: Harmony.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_04: Harmony.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then that's always like fluctuating.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I think is interesting about the well again about Chinese medicine.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I I do say this that it's I mean, uh the idea I have to go back to the idea of thermodynamic flux.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: It really isn't as complicated as it sounds.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_01: It is just environmental heat exchange and and the pressures that things experience.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: But um that idea just flew right out of my head.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's totally okay because I can riff on it for a second, which is that in terms of thermodynamics, one of the things in in traditional Chinese medicine we talk about is that if um like let's say qi sits and stagnates for too long, it creates heat.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's right.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_03: And if and if the heat stays too long, it turns into its opposite.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, or dryness first.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean all kinds of although how much damp do you have in your body, but it's all it's all super nuanced.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, I don't remember where I was going.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_01: It'll come back to me.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_01: Or it won't.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I think we uh we wrap it up here.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_04: Because yeah, we could go on and on.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean, we could totally go on and on.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna propose that maybe we do a part two after you come back.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_04: And you can give us like a report.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_04: I want the croissant report.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my goodness.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_03: I really do think you'd look amazing in a red beret.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_03: I just I'm not fooling around.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_04: Like I don't know.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_04: Purple, maybe.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_04: Do you want the striped shirt and the little handkerchief?
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we want to go full on French.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_04: So um, where can people find you?
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, um.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_04: What's your website?
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't really do that.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want to be able to do that.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: Becky Rubright.com at Becky.com.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Becky Rubot.com.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: You might have Living Harmony Healing, but it's not really anything I do anything with.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's just I mean it's your practice.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't I don't have that presence.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not really an online person.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care about it.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they can they can email her.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: You can email me or call me on my phone.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_04: All right, I'm gonna link her.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna link whatever information I can get out of her in the show notes.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_04: I'll just put your put her number.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_04: You could call her text.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: Becky.rubreit at gmail.com.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_01: Becky.com.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_03: So from my experience, all good accu most of the best acupuncturists I've ever known have been quite feral in this way.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I I don't like that.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_03: We don't like I don't like our flow to be constrained by something like a website, you know, with all this magical energy.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_04: No.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_04: And is um is your paper something that could be available or well I'm gonna see first.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure what the published understanding.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think the conference decides if they if they want to publish it and if they don't like it or want to put a journal to it, right?
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think they submit it to a journal, and then if they decide not to, then I can do whatever I want with it.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_04: Totally.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_04: We'll see.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_04: Well, this has been entirely fascinating.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you so much.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, thank you for breaking my podcast, Cherry.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah, it's a virgin! It was so fun.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_04: It really was.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, good.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_04: Good.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_04: Uh well, thank you all for listening.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_04: And if you're new here, if if uh Becky's podcast brought you here, please make sure that you subscribe.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_04: And we are always looking for new ratings.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_04: So if you enjoyed this, please leave us a rating on Apple Podcasts and um share it with your friends, because that all helps, right?
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_06: Oh hell yeah.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_04: So we will see you all here next time on Being Different together.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_01: Although also, while we're talking about topical stuff, uh when the White House released their official we're calling it SI now instead of AI, he put he misspelled United States.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_04: I saw that.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_01: Incredible.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_04: What's the S stand for?
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_04: Sucker.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh super intelligence.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, okay.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_04: I think we were just going.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_04: So we were on the fast.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, sucker intelligence.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_04: Sucker fast.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_04: That's the track.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I think.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_03: The idiocracy.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_03: Sinister.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_03: Silly puss.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_04: Sucker and succotash.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: Suicidal.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: What would you get to talk talk about?
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_03: Alright, so I'm sorry, I'll be serious.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, no, don't be serious.