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Driving Change: The Green Grand Prix at Watkins Glen · BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show

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Grand Touring Motorsports started as a social group of car enthusiasts,
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but we've expanded into all sorts of motorsports disciplines, and we
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want to share our stories with you.
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Years of racing, wrenching, and motorsports experience brings
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together a top notch collection of knowledge and information
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through our podcast, Brake Fix.
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Their mission for the last 17 years has been to increase
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awareness of energy efficient and environmentally friendly vehicles.
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The Green Grand Prix's goal is to work towards making the Northeast a center
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for advanced vehicle technologies.
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This STEM program has brought in over 150 high school and university students from
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all over, and the focus is on technology, innovation, and new collaboration in
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the field of alternative vehicles.
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Fueled vehicles with us tonight are Robert Gillespie and Jason Kellogg
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from the Green Grand Prix to share the evolution and future of this
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program and how you can get involved.
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So welcome to break fix gentlemen.
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Thank you.
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Thank you.
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Good to be here.
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So like every good break fix story, there's always an origin.
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So tell us about the history of the.
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Green Grand Prix, as we said in the intro, it's been around for 17
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years, but many of us are hearing about this for the first time.
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So where did the idea come from and how did the program get off the ground?
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That's a great question because there's another little factoid.
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It's very much unknown and that is that the world land speed record was battled
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for back in 1899 by two electric cars.
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It ended up with the winner being Camille Jeannette, say, and he had.
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A car that was shaped like a torpedo, totally electric, two electric motors
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went 65 miles an hour, just astounding.
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So the green Grand Prix started before other forms of Grand Prix racing.
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I suppose, as far as I'm concerned, the idea came from a national SCCA sports
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car club of America champion, his name is Oscar Kowalewski, very well known.
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I do artwork of the Watkins Glen races.
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I had shown my artwork regularly at the track.
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Everybody meets Oscar.
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He was very congenial.
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He would come up and he knew that I was a retired teacher.
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And he says, Gillespie, you're a teacher.
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What are you doing for the kids?
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Well, I was just selling my artwork trying to make a few bucks, and
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he kept saying this every year.
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Then there was an event in Saratoga called the Tour de Seoul.
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That was a mini version of a road rally done around a park that had electric
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vehicles and alternate fueled vehicles.
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It went belly up back in 2004.
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Well, I was a volunteer on the last Tour de Seoul.
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When that was canceled the following year, I thought, well, you know, maybe I could
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do something like that at Watkins Glen.
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Maybe I could bring together some organizations.
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I knew a lot of people, people in the Sports Car Club of America, people at
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the International Motor Racing Research Center, later the Seneca Lake Pure
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Waters Association, which was a charity, knocked heads together and we decided
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that we could put together an event.
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Which actually it started out being a static car display on
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the Watkins Glen courthouse lawn.
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We had five vehicles on display and we were talking about doing laps
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around the old Watkins Glen circuit.
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Well, that never happened, but we began by having a road rally around the perimeter
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of Seneca lake, which was about 80 miles.
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And we ran that for a few years.
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And then I think it was 2014, we were invited by the racetrack
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to come up and hold it there.
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So everybody was delighted and thanked them very much.
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They charged us nothing to use the track.
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By the way, they still do.
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We're very appreciative of them.
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Toyota is our major sponsor.
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They've been absolutely wonderful.
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So we moved up to Watkins Lennon International about 2014.
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It has kept evolving since then.
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So Bob, one of the other things you mentioned in all this is your artwork.
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So little known fact, you're actually responsible for a lot of
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the murals in downtown Watkins Glen?
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Yes, all except one.
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There's a NASCAR mural that was just done last year or the year before.
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I didn't do that one.
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That's.
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Kind of like a beer commercial or something, but that's not mine.
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I did the one that's got the Cunningham and the Ferrari.
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And then I did the one of Bill Milliken's Bugatti, which is on
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the building just south of it.
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So Jason, how about you tell us how you got involved in this origin
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story of the Green Grand Prix.
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How do you play into this?
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I actually work for Alfred State College.
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2016.
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And about that same time, we also started an autocross event on the track.
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So the morning is a rally, the afternoon is an autocross event.
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So we're doing what we can to get students involved, experience alternate
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fuel, electric, hybrid vehicles, learn the technology they're going
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to be working on in the near future.
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And there's another component to the history of the Green Grand Prix, and
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that's in the story behind Doris Bovet.
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So why is she so important to this event?
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Doris Bovet.
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Was a Glen region, SCCA member.
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She was a faithful rallyist and she was a teacher.
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She worked in a public school.
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She was a lifetime educator and she was also an environmentalist.
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I found out about that foundation, found out about Doris Bovet.
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Through a great friend of mine, his name is Dave Davies
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and he's in the Glenn region.
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So they have been sponsoring us forever.
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We continue the things that she cared about because the event has
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evolved to serve auto tech students.
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It's environmentally minded and we have a rally.
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All the things that represented Doris.
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Do you both personally own or drive an alternative fuel vehicle?
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I got a 2018 Prius and I've had three Prii and I've put 240, 000
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miles on my first two Priuses.
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I got about 85, 000 miles on this one now, but I plan to
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drive it for the next few years.
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I do not own one yet, but like I said, I do teach it.
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I'm also a GM tech for the last 20 years.
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I have been trained in the dealership.
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I've worked on them in the dealership.
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I've serviced quite a few of them.
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I teach them and work with this event.
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So I appreciate the technology.
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So what's the overall.
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Expectation, expect the students, have they been working up to
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this throughout the years?
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Is there some sort of curriculum that backs this up?
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Obviously this is grounded as a STEM program, so are there hands-on exercises?
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Are there things they're working on?
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What's the takeaway here for people that maybe wanna try this for the first time?
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My class is senior automotive students getting ready to graduate in May.
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And with newer technologies, I mean, they're going to be working on these cars
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in the field as soon as they graduate.
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I actually have a four week course that I teach where students learn the
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safety aspects of the vehicle, all of the high voltage issues, proper safety
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gear, all the way to removing the high voltage batteries, putting them back in.
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That's taking the drivelines apart.
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So in class, in the fall semester, they've learned how to work on the
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cars, and this event gives them an opportunity to drive them on the road.
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Say two thirds of my students, three quarters of them,
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have never driven a hybrid.
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Probably 90 percent have not driven an electric car.
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So this gives them a chance to experience a little bit more than normal, what
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they're going to be working on.
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I've had faculty from other schools that have competed saying that they use
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this really as kind of a hot dog to hang in front of the wagon in their course.
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They tell them, you know, in the spring, you're going to be able
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to go to the Green Grand Prix.
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And so you need to learn this and learn that.
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And our students attend the event, compete with it.
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And our students assist running the event.
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Our students act as tech inspectors, transponder workers,
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autocross workers, et cetera.
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So we compete in it and we help run it.
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And, uh, they all look forward to driving.
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I mean, everybody wants to drive on the Waukensland track.
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And somebody who gets to drive for an hour and a half or two hours,
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how can it get any better than that?
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Within the next month, my students will be going through all the cars we have.
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The building that I'm working in, we have three classes, 15 students a class.
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Each class is going to have two cars a run, and they're going to go through
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a car prep before we get there.
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So be checking the vehicle condition, making sure it's
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safe, performing alignments, maximizing angles, stuff like that.
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That and they're learning that he can't just show up the track and compete.
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We have to make sure we're going to pass tech inspection for the morning
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event tech inspection for autocross.
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We've got to make sure we're legit.
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Nelson's going to fail.
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As we talk about the evolution of the program or the 17 years,
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you keep mentioning the rally.
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Jason briefly talked about the autocross, but it's held at Watkins Glen.
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So how does this all work?
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Is there a rally at the track?
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Are they doing laps of the track?
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Obviously there's autocross lots at the track.
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So how does.
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This event play out over the course of the weekend.
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It was just a road rally and we figured out a way to do
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it on the racetrack itself.
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It's interesting because it's a road rally time speed distance event that is
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run on a world famous Grand Prix circuit.
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Usually takes place on opening weekend of walk ins Glenn on a Friday before
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opening weekend, the morning event, basically 10 to noon is a on track event.
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It's time distance.
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It's about 80 miles.
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Give or take we're on a track for two hours and there's different
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classes for different vehicles, four cylinder hybrid, six cylinder.
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You know, different alternate fuels, different versions of Toyota Priuses.
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Students are timed on our laps.
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So the drivers with the most number of perfect laps will win
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certain categories and best fuel mileage wins other categories.
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So it's not truly bumper to bumper racing.
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It's time distance.
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And it's got that fuel economy aspect.
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So we judge these vehicles on two sets of rules.
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One is.
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How consistent their lap times were, we hang transponders on the cars.
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And so we know their times down to a thousandths of a second.
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And then also we can monitor their fuel economy.
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Most of the cars that are in the event have onboard computers
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that tell them miles per gallon.
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But if a car does not have an onboard computer, then we require them
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to top off their tank before and after the event, we can measure how
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many miles they traveled and then.
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From that, we get to their fuel economy.
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So are you using Watkins Glen full course, the NASCAR variant?
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How is the rally laid out if you're using the track itself?
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For years, we used the NASCAR short track.
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Last year we used the long course.
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Of course, that's got all the elevation changes and it introduced a new challenge.
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This year, we're going to use the bus stop also.
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So we'll be using the whole thing.
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So is the idea then.
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To maximize the fuel efficiency by, let's say hypermiling or something like that.
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I'm trying to figure out what the perfect lap is.
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You guys mentioned that a couple of times.
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So how do you qualify that?
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For example, the average speed is limited to about 45 miles an hour.
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And the last few years we've been announcing at the event, what the
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speed's actually going to be to throw another challenge into it.
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Well, the elevation changes, you're allowed about a 10
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mile an hour range difference.
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You can go uphill a little bit slower, downhill a little bit
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faster to gain speed to work your fuel mileage to your advantage.
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But we have to keep the lap times perfect.
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The morning event, we have a driver and a co driver in the car.
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The co driver can use a stopwatch fixed points around the track
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to help calculate their time.
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Try to ensure the perfect lap.
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All of this has to be done on a single tank of fuel?
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Like, there's no pit stops here, right?
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But they're still running for two hours straight.
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Well, they do have one pit stop, but that doesn't involve refueling.
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It's basically a potty break.
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But that pit stop has to measure four minutes exactly, from the time they enter
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the pits until they're at the pit exit.
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Even the pit stop is a challenge.
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It's got to be done just right.
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Let's dig a little deeper now.
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So you talked about the cars themselves.
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Now, are these cars that are provided by, let's say, Toyota, are these cars
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that the students have built sort of like a Formula SEAE type of program?
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So most of these cars are stock cars supplied by whoever's going to drive them.
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You know, if they can borrow 'em from their parents, if
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the school has 'em, whatever.
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For example, I'm representing Alfred State.
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We bring six cars that are street legal.
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We bring three Chevy Volts, 2012 to 2013 Toyota Prius, about 2010, a Ford
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Fusion, about 2009, and a Honda Insight.
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This year we're trying to borrow a 2022 Rivian from a local person to run.
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So, you know, whatever.
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Every get your hands on in the past.
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We've had modified vehicles, different aero packages, other items, but
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usually lately they've been mostly stock EVs, hybrids, alternate fuels.
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What do you consider alternate fuel?
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Is it a hydrogen car?
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Is diesel considered an alternate?
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What's in that list?
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When we used to run the cars around the lake, I think in the final year we had it.
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There were eight different fuels that our entries had.
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I think that was the record, possibly nine.
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So we had a Stanley steamer.
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He didn't go the whole distance around the lake.
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He went maybe 20 miles and we had a solar car, same story there.
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They didn't make it very far, but we said, sure, come on.
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And it'll be a photo op, you know, and then you can explain your
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project car to all the students.
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Because really one of our goals was and is.
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To expose the students to as, as many different technologies as possible
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and get them really interested in all kinds of things that might be
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considered offbeat right now, but who knows what the future holds, we
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did have a hydrogen powered Toyota Prius from the Vermont department of
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conservation that worked on bottled EVs.
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Vegetable oil powered diesels.
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We had a wood chip car, but we had to blackball him early on
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because he was stealing the show.
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Nobody else wanted to know anything else.
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He was a magnum.
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He provided the eye candy.
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This wood powered car was very interesting and very entertaining,
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but totally impractical.
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Then there has to be some sort of limitation to this.
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Let's call it competition.
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It's not a race.
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It's sort of a rally.
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Let's call it a competition.
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Let's say I've got a diesel, even if it's lowly VW diesel, something
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like that from 20 years ago.
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If I set the cruise control, the diesel is super efficient.
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It's like barely running at 45 miles an hour.
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And even on the hills of Watkins Glen with an automatic, the diesel is just
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going to build boost with the turbo and it's still pretty efficient.
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So how do you do let's what we would call in the racing world.
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Some sort of balance of performance.
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Are there things that the drivers aren't allowed to do?
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What are some of the exceptions to the rules here?
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One thing is like for diesels, we have different classes.
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So if we did have a diesel four cylinder, that'd be in its own class.
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It's not directly competing with a gas.
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Or an electric for fuel mileage.
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And there are rules.
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The events is designed lately for students, educate them about the vehicles.
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And most of the students, this is their first time on a track.
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So there's no drafting, stay in the right hand lane.
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If you're passing, pass on the left hand side.
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Don't just take all the apexes, you know, respect traffic.
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So how are passes handled?
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Are they point buys?
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I know you talked about get in the right lane, pass on the left, but are you
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using like typical, almost HPDE style passing rules or how does that work?
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Basically since we.
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I started running the boot last year.
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We have a standing rule, the boot's narrow with all the hills,
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there's no passing in the boot.
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Turn one, we want single file also, but pretty much
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everything is fair for passing.
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To include the uphill S's from two to four?
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Uh, they usually don't there.
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I wouldn't race car, but you know, hey.
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And you've got to watch your mirrors also because none of these cars have roll bars.
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They're just street legal cars.
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And this is a full SCCA time, speed, distance rally, and it's
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insured and sanctioned by the SCCA.
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Those are concerns we have to deal with.
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There is a tech inspection.
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The car is basically have to have safe tires, proper air pressures,
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lights, windshield wipers.
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For a stock class, there's a maximum limit on tire pressure, obviously higher
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pressure, less rolling resistance.
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You can't run four spare tires.
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It got to be street legal, you know?
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So we do have some rules, but we do have people.
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And, uh, modified class run different aero packages, you know, they'll add
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parts of the car, tails, whatever, trying to, uh, increase aerodynamics
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and some have done that with success.
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And we do a little bit pickup trucks.
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So, you know, high center of gravity, no motorcycles, stuff like that.
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So there are some rules for safety SUVs are allowed, not normally,
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but this year we're going to try to run one of the Rivian SUVs just
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came out that has air suspension.
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And with a low center of gravity of the battery and a floor that
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can drop right to the ground that has 15 inches of suspension travel.
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So as long as he's all the way down, We have had SUVs before, mostly hybrids.
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For example, the, uh, Toyota RAV4 Prime got incredible fuel economy last year.
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I think I got something like 70 miles to the gallon off an SUV.
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That's unheard of.
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Of course, they were driving 45 miles an hour, but still they're going uphill,
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down, and they had to manage everything just right in order to get that.
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And it becomes a game because you get instant feedback from these hybrids
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with the monitors that they have.
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It helps you drive it for maximum economy.
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So it's a challenge.
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So, you know, when I'm there, I bring a...
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College 15 passenger van.
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And I give students that are watching rides around the track during the
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event, staying out of people's way.
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So I think I get the worst fuel mileage.
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How many cars are entered in an event?
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When we run a track event at the Glen, there's usually a equation
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of how many cars per mile.
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Usually it's between 40 and 45.
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50 cars is really pushing it.
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We don't want a crowded racetrack.
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That's not bad at the Glen being three and a half miles.
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You're doing better than, you know, 20 cars per mile.
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So that's pretty good.
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You'll still have trains either way because you don't have closing
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rates and things like that.
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So you do, let's say 80 miles of Watkins Glen.
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There's gotta be some sort of break in there, lunch, maybe some
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sort of tech talk, and then the autocross is in the afternoon.
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Is that how the rest of the day plays out?
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Yes.
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Lunch is at noon.
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And we have a seminar, which is going to be live streamed this year.
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Then in the afternoon, we're going to have some mock pit stops by the Alfred
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Motorsports Department on their EBSRs.
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It's a sport racing car that's all electric.
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And then also Cornell University is bringing their SAE Formula
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car, which is all electric also.
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And they're going to do two different talks on their car.
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One in the morning, one in the afternoon, but the autocross I think starts.
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About 1 45 and runs until maybe 4 o'clock, 4 15, something like that.
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And that's done with the same cars that were used for the on track
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exercises, or are there a different dedicated set of cars for the autocross?
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Same cars, but we do have different rules.
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So the morning event.
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is alternate fuel.
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You can have fuel efficient gasoline vehicles, diesel, electric or hybrid.
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The afternoon event, we narrow the field down.
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It's strictly only for electric cars or hybrid cars.
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And then you just score that on best run or whatever.
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Is that how it works?
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Just regular SCCA.
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We got a time and the students have the opportunity.
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They can run 15 runs throughout the day.
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They really have a lot of fun.
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Are they jumping between cars, trying different ones?
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What I do with my students, um, I'm going to be bringing about
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45 students from Alfred state.
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I have six dedicated drivers.
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I let them try five or six times to do the best I can.
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Then we'll start giving other students rides in the front seat as a passenger.
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Then they'll let the passenger try it.
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So a lot of students get an opportunity to try it and sometimes they'll swap cars.
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Just to get the experience, I want to know the inside baseball here.
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I want to know those super secrets.
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What are some of the things that people can do to maximize their competitive
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advantage when they're out there on the tracks, or there's some things
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you can share some tips, or maybe even the pre brief that you guys
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give to folks that might be helpful.
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As far as driving tips go for hybrids, it's really the same for any car.
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I remember when I was a kid, I read a book by Sterling Moss and he said,
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a lot of people can drive fast, but very few drive fast smoothly.
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It's all about smooth driving and being easy on the car, using all
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the road when possible, just evening everything out, back off a little
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bit on the hills, but you can make up for it on the downhill sections.
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Hypermiling stuff, but not extreme because you don't want to drive in a
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dangerous way, but you just want to be consistent and even on the throttle.
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It's just good advice anyway.
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Actually, the event is kind of unique because the morning event
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is designed for maximum fuel mileage and efficient driving.
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But if you know what autocross is, fastest car wins.
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So that's the opposite use for a hybrid.
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Fuel mileage doesn't matter.
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Tire wear doesn't matter.
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Drive it.
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You know, and we actually have our students practice
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a little bit ahead of time.
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We do a mock event and then there's an awards dinner in the evening.
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So it's kind of an all day affair, right?
20:43
Yeah, we, we try to do it all in one day as we kind of, let's
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say, wrap up the thought on this, how can people get involved?
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How can they help?
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What kind of help do you need?
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Do you need volunteers even looking to next year's program?
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You know, there's a lot of logistics.
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Even after 17 years of repetitive success, there's a lot that goes into this.
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So how can people get involved and what can they do?
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I would say that if listeners know someone that's an educator, either in a
21:09
high school or at a college, tell them about it, direct them to the website,
21:14
have them watch the live stream.
21:16
It's something that we want as many schools as possible to compete.
21:20
It would be great if we had no room for private owners and it was all just.
21:25
Entries from schools right now, as it is, I think we've got maybe two thirds
21:30
of our entries come from schools and one third private owners of unusual vehicles.
21:36
So gentlemen, as we wrap out here, any final shout outs, promotions,
21:40
or anything else you'd like to share that we didn't cover this far.
21:43
There's one big thing I'd like to mention, and that is that
21:46
this is an event that could be replicated throughout the country.
21:49
But what would be needed is a Sports Car Club of America chapter that's
21:54
near a racetrack that has a good relationship with them, a university
21:59
or college nearby that has an auto tech program that's interested.
22:04
And then you have to have a charity because this is an SCCA charity event.
22:09
It's a charity road rally and SCCA allows.
22:13
Every region to have one charity road rally per year.
22:17
This is it for us.
22:18
And it's the same throughout the country.
22:20
The Doris Bove Memorial Foundation sponsors our event along with the
22:26
Upstate Toyota Dealers Association.
22:29
Is our primary sponsor and has been for years and years, and we are very
22:33
grateful for their constant support.
22:36
We're also very thankful for Watkins Glen, giving us a use of the truck.
22:40
Just watch for the future because I think it's going to continue to grow.
22:44
I hope it will be replicated and it's an awful lot of fun.
22:48
The Green Grand Prix is an annual event that showcases and
22:51
promotes environmentally friendly and fuel efficient vehicles.
22:55
The event typically includes demonstrations and competitions
22:58
that test the fuel efficiency and emissions of vehicles, as well
23:01
as seminars and exhibits on green transportation and related technologies.
23:06
The Green Grand Prix aims to raise awareness about the importance
23:09
of sustainable transportation and to encourage the development and
23:12
adoption of clean, efficient vehicles.
23:15
To learn more, be sure to log on to www.
23:20
greengrandprix.
23:20
com or follow them on social at Green Grand Prix Corporation.
23:24
on Facebook, Jason and Bob, I can't thank you enough for coming on break fix and
23:29
sharing the history of the Green Grand Prix, getting people excited about this.
23:33
I'm looking forward to being at this event in person and being able to relay
23:37
back some of the stories and the antics and things that are going on with this.
23:40
So very excited to be a part of this this year and looking forward
23:43
to seeing what happens next.
23:45
Well, thank you very much.
23:46
It's great to have you promoting our event.
23:49
And this is something that people need to know more about.
23:52
It needs to be discovered.
23:54
All right, gentlemen.
23:54
Thank you so much.
23:55
Thank you, Eric.
23:56
Thanks.
24:02
If you like what you've heard and want to learn more about GTM,
24:04
be sure to check us out on www.
24:06
gtmotorsports.
24:08
org.
24:09
You can also find us on Instagram at GrandTouringMotorsports.
24:12
Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can
24:16
call or text us at 202 630 1770 or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.
24:24
org.
24:24
We'd love to hear from you.
24:26
Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here.
24:29
We really hope you enjoyed this episode of break fix, and we wanted to remind
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