Latest / Diogenes Club / Diogenes Club | E28 - The Doctors Are In The House with Dr. Angela Rasmussen

Transcript

Diogenes Club | E28 - The Doctors Are In The House with Dr. Angela Rasmussen · Diogenes Club

• 0:00
  [music]
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Good afternoon, everyone.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome as you start coming on in.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Nick Paro,
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: joined by my good friend, Dr.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Eric Lulove,
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: and soon to be joined by his good friend and someone I'm very excited to meet,
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Dr. Angela Rasmussen or Doc Angie.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Eric is going to introduce her here in a couple of minutes,
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: and then we'll pull her on once she's available.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Before the show,
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: the last thing I heard before we went live was Eric saying Saskatchewan Time got me.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're going to have we're going to have Doc Angie here in a couple of minutes.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Eric, how are you, my friend?
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic, my friend.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: How are you?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing really I'm I'm doing well today.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: I am doing well today.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Had a really good conversation with the angry male vet not too long ago
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: where we were talking masculinity, better humaning.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Getting out to vote and the actions and what it feels like to vote and
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: to participate in civics and how to let yourself enjoy that feeling of positivity.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: What it's like to go touch grass and actually meet people in real life
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: and do those things in real life and what it does for you.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: How are you doing today?
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm good.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: We had a pretty big primary day here yesterday.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, on Tuesday here in Florida.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: And unfortunately,
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: our two good friends of my relationships here within Substack,
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: you know, John Lencion in Florida 13, which is Pinellas County.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then everybody who's watched the interviews with me, with my friend,
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: Victoria Doyle,
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: who fell short against Lois Frankel,
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: who's a seven term incumbent in my county who's going to be turning 80.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know,
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: the thing with the turnout was very low here in Palm Beach County just
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: because it's Lois is on the ballot because she's such a,
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: you know, it's like kind of like an automatic.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's like,
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: it's just it's that that people have the name recognition of the incumbency,
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: which is why term limits are so important.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, no U.S.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: Congressman, anybody in elected office should be there, you know, for more than 12 years.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I just think 12 years is enough as a sitting U.S.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: Congressman or two terms as a U.S.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: Senator.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's enough for public service.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, listen,
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: Victoria was I was at the campaign party with her and her team in Lake Worth Beach
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: on Tuesday night.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: And and I posted her I posted her concession speech.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: She's just she's just very magnanimous and she's very humble and she's just
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: a really she'll be the front runner for 2020 if she wants the seat.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: But I will say two things.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: What she was able to accomplish in her race on Tuesday is something
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: that never has happened to Lois Frankel ever.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: She made Lois spend almost two million dollars of her pack money
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: and her fundraising money to defend the seat,
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: which she's never had to do in 14 years.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: And Victoria got 23% of the vote,
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: which almost doubled that of any other previous challenger to Lois.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I think even though Lois won 73% of the vote,
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: Tuesday it was 57,000 ballots and it's a plus 24 district.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I think the message is being sent.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think they're getting it.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: And congratulations to Angie Nixon for for beating Alex,
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: Alex, Colonel Vindman in her election run.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: So it's,
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: it's Florida is really what I mean,
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: they elected a former Republican to be the Democratic nominee for governor for
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: the state of Florida and David Jolly.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: And congratulations to the representative, the congressman for his his win on Tuesday.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: So he'll be running against Byron Donalds.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: And then and congratulations to Angie Nixon for, you know, so.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: Florida elected a DSA borderline left progressive senatorial candidate to run
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: against Ashley Moody and a former Republican,
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: moderate conservative, kind of a moderate conservative to be governor.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: Florida is like three different states, right?
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Florida is a weird place.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: I love Florida, but it's a weird place.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's a very weird place.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's a weird place.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: But we've got two doctors in the house today.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Eric, do you want to introduce our guest this morning?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Will we bring her on today?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you want me to bring her on as you're introducing her?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think we should bring her on as she's getting out of Saskatchewan time.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, she's in the background with us.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: We can bring her in and then I'll do the biography and I'll embarrass her a little bit.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: Good.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: Doc Angie.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's wonderful to meet you and have you on with us today.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's really good to meet you too, Nick.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I have to apologize because Saskatchewan time did get in my way.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: They are freedom-loving Canadians in this province
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: and they don't like things like time zone changes or daylight savings time.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm always like an hour off and I'm often an hour late.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so today you're getting au naturel, Angie.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: I hadn't put my makeup on yet.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't put mine on either, so we're both.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I just did my toner
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: and my facial stuff this morning,
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: so I'm the only one that kind of-
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: You didn't put as much eyeliner on as David has.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: Angie, thanks so much for coming on today.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: Listen, you and I have been colleagues and friends for a number of months now.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: We met through Substack,
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: and we always had great dialogues,
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: and I truly enjoy our collegial relationship that we have.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: And for everybody that does not know who you are,
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: so- Let me introduce everybody to Dr. Angela Rasmussen.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: She is a PhD virologist.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: She's a professor at the University of Saskatchewan,
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: previously, I believe, at University of Washington, I believe.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: I was at, yeah, there and at Columbia, actually, in between.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: And at Columbia, correct.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: So, but what Angie's really known for these days is she is the science chair of
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: the Save America movement and is doing a lot with our friends,
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: Dean Blundell and Steve Schmidt on that level.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: Angie's back and forth across the border and has been a proponent against
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: the ACIP committee changes,
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: the vaccine changes that are being done at CDC,
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: and a lot of the things that this administration and a lot of what RFK Jr.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: has been doing to our health system and our science systems
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: and what Russell Vogt attempted to do with the OMB with some of this,
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: and thank God that didn't go through,
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: and Just a lot of the changes that Angie and I deal with on a policy side
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: that does not always filter down to the American people.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: We're on the front lines fighting this stuff.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: Me on the healthcare policy side and Angie doing it on the virology laboratory science end.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: So here he is and everybody here is Dr.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: Angela Rasmussen with us front and center in Diogenes today.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: So thanks for joining us today.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks so much for having me.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I really enjoy our collegial relationship too.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Eric likes to call me when he's going to the farmer's market or something and has
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: a science or health care issue to vent about.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we really kind of look at two different sides to the same thing.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: I also do look at a lot of clinical and public health policy just because even
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: though I'm not a clinician, I'm also the co-editor in chief of the journal Vaccine.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it's sort of part of my job to keep an eye on all these vaccine policy changes
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: and You know,
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't blame people when I talk to you,
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: Eric, like you talk about the health care system.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: And even though it's like science adjacent, it's completely unfamiliar to me.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: And often it's really boring,
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: because it's all this policy stuff about Medicare Part D and like all
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: of these things that most people just don't have any idea how to deal with.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the same thing on like the public health policy side of things.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that's by intention.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: And this is why I was really glad to come and talk to you about this, Nick,
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: because I know that you've Really been paying a lot of attention on the effect
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: that this is having on like American health.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean,
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: I really think that all of these policy changes are meant to be boring
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: because they're actually really effective.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like they are effective in preventing people from getting vaccines.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: They're effective at preventing people from getting access to health care.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: And they're very effective at like having people not really fight back because
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: who wants to talk about policy number,
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, or this part of the code of federal regulations.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just really boring for most people
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: unless it's something that's really affecting their lives.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: And the problem with a lot of the health stuff is
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: that it will profoundly affect people's lives, but not immediately.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: So people can't actually see the damage while it's being inflicted.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I really,
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: really appreciate having this opportunity to come on and talk about it
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: with you guys,
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: because I know you guys have really been digging into different aspects of this
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: than me.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's all important.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you, and I'm really glad you're here with us.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Before we get into any real discussion,
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: we have a great initial question for you in the chat,
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: which is,
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: is there a centralized website or place where people can find what you are,
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: your expertise and what you discuss?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean,
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: they can definitely go to rasmussenretorts.substack.com,
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: which is my Substack newsletter.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I talk about a lot of- What's that?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Make it longer?
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know- Oh,
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: I hit Eric.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Wrong one.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's what happens when you make fun of me.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Just kicking Eric off the chat here.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Get out of here, Eric.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: You need to learn how to spell Rasmussenretorts.substack.com.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: No, I thought I was being very clever six years ago when I started my Substack
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: and didn't write anything for six years.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know,
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: there's this Republican,
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: like, highly right-wing anti-vax polling firm called Rasmussen Reports.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, oh, yeah, I talk back.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, Rasmussen retorts.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be great.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm just like, shit, my last name is nine letters long.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Substack is there.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm too lazy to, like, change it to just one URL.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's awful.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: I like you're just running with it, Angie.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: You're just kind of just running with it.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, you got to run with it, right?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so, one, I'm really excited to have this conversation because there's a lot.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking forward to what we can talk about today because especially over
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: the last few weeks,
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Eric and I have been talking a lot about the public health side and the impacts
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: that RFK Jr. and the
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Anti-vax,
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: or as we are now calling it,
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: the gene pool management government,
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: because we got kicked off of,
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: I got a warning on TikTok because we said eugenics and they don't like that word
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: over there.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: So we're calling it gene pool management so that they're less likely to kick us off
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: of TikTok for clips.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: I already know what Amy's thinking.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: I already got something that she's already formulating in a response in her head.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: You can just see it.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't understand how eugenics became a bad word.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's an accurate word.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: I got in trouble for saying the F word too many times,
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: both telling fascists to fuck off,
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: but also calling people fascists, even though they are.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: I like to say words mean things.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: And when we use the right words at the right times, they mean really important things.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like talking about eugenics and or gene pool management is really important.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Calling people fascists when they are being fascists is really important
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: and not using it as hyperbole, but using it as a statement of fact.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm a parent and I've got two young kids and I live in Arkansas.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: I live in the South and I live in a place
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: where gene pool management is probably like a standard policy more often than not.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: They are trying to hurt our children in various ways.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: And one of those is with these new vaccine mandates to split the MMR
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: and other vaccines and loosen restrictions and requirements.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I was reading a report the other, I think it was this morning or the other day that vaccine
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Coverage for new students is at an all-time low,
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: especially in states like Arkansas and Florida and those in the South.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: What can we do as parents?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: What does this impact really mean for parents?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: And what can we actually do?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, these are,
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: this is exactly why this executive order that just came out is so insidious because,
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: and I actually was finishing a Substack article that I was going to promote on here,
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: but I still will.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be out right after this episode because of Saskatchewan time.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: But it's kind of explaining the implications of this executive order.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: And the main thing that people and parents especially should know
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: about this thing Is that they can safely ignore it and they they probably should.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: But if they engage with it, there's some stuff they should know about it.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, the president does not have the power to make immunization recommendations at all.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: So like the whole thing is void because federal law actually states that is
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices that has
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: to make vaccine recommendations based on evidence that's run through the CDC.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: The CDC director then has to approve those.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Now, a new CDC director just started,
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: but the ACIP is not meeting because it was stayed by a federal judge in March due to
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: the AAP's lawsuit, the American Academy of Pediatrics lawsuit against Kennedy.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason for that was the judge Ruled that effectively the ACIP,
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: which was composed entirely of anti-vaxxers almost,
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: there's a few non-anti-vaxxers on there,
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: but most of them are bad people acting in bad faith that were put there by Kennedy.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: And the judge declared that since their appointment, no decisions have been valid.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: So all of the stuff that they did last year to vaccines is now out the window
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: and we're back to using the 2025 schedule,
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: which was developed by The actual ACIP who are vaccine experts and parents can rely
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: on those.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one thing I do want to tell people.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: If you're confused about which vaccines you should get for your kids,
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: go to the CDC's website actually.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't always say this about vaccines,
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: but in this case I do because the current vaccine schedule that is on there is one
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: that has been developed based on evidence.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: So parents can feel confident using that vaccine schedule for their kids.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the thing about this executive order,
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: as you pointed out, Nick,
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: is that it follows on Trump's insane press conference from last year about Tylenol,
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: where he was.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: Wait, wait, wait, which insane press conference?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you got to be more specific.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: There's been maybe I think there's only been like, I think two or three hundred.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: They all are.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: But this one this one just strikes out like sticks out to me
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: because Trump was screaming, break it up.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: He was telling this story about Babies frying and this beautiful baby
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: that was boiling up and had a 108 degree fever.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: All this just made up stuff that Trump was saying.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember when he started screaming, break it up, break it up.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh my God, that's how they're going to shit can the MMR.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because the MMR vaccine,
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: the measles, mumps,
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: rubella vaccine,
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: which is,
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: by the way,
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: 97% effective, has been administered to billions of people and is very safe.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: So you should absolutely get that vaccine for your kids and yourself if you haven't gotten it.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: But the MMR vaccine has been used since 1970, 1961, sorry, was when it was combined.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: 55 years of evidence-based vaccine mandates.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's correct.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know,
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: he Kennedy,
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: the whole purpose of making it monovalent,
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: which is what it's called when you split it up into three different shots instead of
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: the combined shots, is you get six shots instead of two for your kids.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: But there's no monovalent vaccines that are currently licensed by the FDA.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: So Trump has ordered Kennedy to make these available by November.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: There are no clinical trials for these things because they discovered in 1961,
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: and as Eric pointed out,
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: have all the evidence since then that they work just fine as a combined shot.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what everybody wants.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: So no manufacturer is going to make monovalence because we don't need them
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: and there's literally no demand for them.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: And the process, because it's so ancient science, right?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: That they literally would now have to refile with the FDA under a new drug pathway.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: They'd have to do a new clinical trial.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: They have to do a phase one proof of concept trial.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: They have to do a phase two laboratory trial.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: Then they have to do the phase three clinical trials,
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: which will have to involve well over 25,000 people.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: And cost hundreds of millions of dollars, which will cost more because it's the FDA population.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the average new drug clinical trial
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: Has a minimum lifespan run of seven to eight years.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean,
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: there's no way,
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: there's no way that this would be feasible by November or actually ever because,
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: who pays for clinical trials too are manufacturers and they're not going to make
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: a product that is already not profitable that people don't want.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that is the goal of this executive order.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: And that is if parents take anything from it, That is what they should take from it.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: This thing is lying to you to make you doubt the combined MMR vaccine.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know,
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: when people get in a situation where they're like, well,
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: the MMR, I guess, is OK. Like people are saying that and there's measles everywhere.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: But the president is saying that this is terrible and I should be waiting for these monovalence.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: What should I do?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: Chances are most people are not going to go get a vaccine.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: And in the face of doubt, people are going to stay home.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so one thing I tell parents is that the thing that they can do first
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: and foremost is to make sure their own kids and their own families are up to date on
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: the schedule.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's the best way to protect your family.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: But also when people,
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: when their friends like have questions about this stuff,
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: like, I don't know, I think maybe I should wait for these single shots.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's,
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's important to let people know these single shots are never coming
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: and you don't actually want them because it just means more shots for your baby.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: Not the amount in a soda bottle, but still it's six shots instead of two.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then when you start adding in, let's just say all of this does come to fruition, right?
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: You're asking families to take more days off of work,
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: to take their kids to more doctor's appointments, right?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: And exposing these kids to more trauma with already a needle that they're not going
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: to want to take, okay?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then you're asking these parents to have additional co-pays, more out-of-pocket expenses.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: It just, this is not, it's not even a fee.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's a reason why the trivalency of the vaccine was so,
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: and if you notice, Angie, they don't do this with the flu vaccines.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: And remember,
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: so when you get a flu vaccine,
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: everybody, you're not getting just the season's flu vaccine.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: You're getting ones that they have already given.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: Plus additional potential strains that might mutate for that season.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: So when you get the recombinant flu vaccine,
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: the Recombivax,
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: that's like, I think it's like anywhere between four to seven different strains.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's actually, it depends on which vaccine formulation you're getting.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: They usually do,
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: most flu vaccines usually only have the new strains for the new season
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: because those strains will actually boost your immunity from last year too.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: There's usually Yeah, it
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: depends really on the type of vaccine.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: You're talking about recombinant vaccines.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Still to this day,
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: most of the flu vaccines that are actually administered are inactivated vaccines.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: So they're made with whole virus.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: And for those ones, they're a lot harder to grow.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: They grow in eggs a lot of the time.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so they don't want to make more viruses than they have to because they have
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: to actually make
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: The problem with that now is the eggs have salmonella
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: because they're not being inspected by the FDA.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, salmonella and cyclospora.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: So one thing.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: You can't have jalapenos.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: You can't have eggs.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: You can't have peppers.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: You can't have lettuce.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: But those are the things that RFK is trying to promote through his new cooking show
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: that he wants to do.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of public health,
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: he wants to do a cooking show for food that you can't buy because it's all disease.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I hear rotting bear carcasses are still okay.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: They're okay wrecking penises as well,
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: and the price of beets going through the roof,
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: so we got to get creative with our protein sources here.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is something that I've really also been taking a look at,
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: like with one of the things I'm working on for the Save America Movement as
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: the science chair,
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't just like talk about science,
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm actually doing some science,
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: and one of my areas of expertise is using AI
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: and machine learning classification models to predict disease outcome
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: for different viral infections.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm actually kind of trying to do that at
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: a national scale using some standard epidemiological approaches and trying
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: to put other types of data in.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things I am looking at is how funding cuts.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: Have impacted things like food safety inspections.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: And oh, guess what?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like they've lost FDA and USDA food safety inspectors in all of the states
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: that currently have an ongoing cyclospora outbreak.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: I actually,
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: I tried to get Steve and Dean to show data when I went on their show like
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: a few weeks ago, but they didn't.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't want to see my graphs.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: If you've got graphs you want to share, I'll put them up.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: I love putting up graphs.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to come back again too and just basically have a show of graphs
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: that you can talk over and talk about,
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: Eric and I have done that a couple of times with things that he's put together.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think they're important because seeing the data is really powerful
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: and seeing what it actually means is really important, especially for parents.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: And like I'm a parent and I've got two kids and I don't want my children getting sick.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: We just got health care back for my children because my wife finally is in a job
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: that offers health care.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: And we can now ensure that our kids are safe.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: But what do you say to parents and how do you help parents or even just anybody,
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: but how to specifically for parents,
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: because that's a lot of what I talk about is like in terms of like Health
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: for our kids and stuff is how do you ensure that we get good information?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: And what are you doing with, say,
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: the Save America Movement and your role there as the science chair to ensure that
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: that type of information is really well promoted and seen for others?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always trying to do more in that department.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I am just one person,
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: which is one reason why I'm really glad to work with the Save America Movement.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: I also, full disclosure,
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: the executive director of the Save America movement who co-founded it
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: with Steve Schmidt is my very, very good friend from college.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that was originally how I got involved in it.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: And because it's my friend, I don't want to look bad in front of her.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I really wanted to do stuff with Sam that would make an impact.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that means both doing stuff like this.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I would love to come on and have a graph show.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: I would love actually for us to talk about to take a problem
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: that we haven't really thought about as a public health problem,
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: maybe necessarily one example.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this is it started off as a public health problem.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: I gave a talk at the Vaccine Congress last year about the effect of U.S. policy,
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: and I tried to estimate how many cases of vaccine preventable diseases we'd have in
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: the U.S. within the next 10 years.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: And just using standard epi tools, it was shocking to me.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're talking over 3 million measles cases cumulatively over the next 10 years.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that, to me, is just mind-blowing and insane.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the kind of thing that I think parents really maybe would think about
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: a lot just because those kind of numbers are really scary,
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think, for a lot of people.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: But then I started thinking,
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: How does this affect other things that we're facing as a society right now?
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I started thinking about this in the context of the measles outbreak
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: that occurred at the Dilley Detention Center in Texas,
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: where ICE is taking a lot of kids and they are not offering them measles vaccines.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: They're not offering them any kind of medical care.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: How does this affect the community around those facilities?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: So questions like that, where it's like, we're talking about measles and immunization.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: And the things that parents are worried about,
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: but what are some ways that this affects our communities in other ways
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: that we don't necessarily see, but that are really important?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm also looking at the effect of infectious disease outbreaks on elections
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: and election turnout.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's going to be very important too,
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: because one thing that you always talk about using the E word,
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: whatever, what was your name?
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Gene pool management.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: Gene pool management.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think that is one of the points of gene pool management.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's so that we won't show up to participate in our democracy.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: We won't fight back when people try to take it away from us.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that showing the data to people is really important.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the big thing I'm trying to do with the Save America movement.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Also, you talked about this just now in Arkansas.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's a state where a lot of people are losing health care,
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: where a lot of people don't have access to the services that they need.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: What can Save America Movement do to partner with other organizations
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: or even local public health organizations to provide better access to people,
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: to help them get better information?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: The information landscape right now is a terrible place.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's terrible for people who just want basic information because like I said,
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't wholeheartedly recommend the CDC's website for vaccine information.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: I definitely think people should go to places like the Vaccine Integrity Project.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: They should go to the American Academy of Pediatrics,
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: the Infectious Diseases Society of America.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: These professional societies do have this information.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: But it's hard when you're giving people a grab bag of professional societies
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: that they should go look at.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's easier if they just hear it from somebody like,
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: you know, Angie,
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: who didn't get a chance to finish putting her TV makeup on because I feel like.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I'm trying to do for the Save America movement is just tell people,
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: like answer their questions.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: So next Tuesday, actually, great opportunity to promote stuff.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not very good at this.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: Anita Patel,
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: who is a double board certified critical care pediatrician and has been really,
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: really outspoken about especially children in ICE detention,
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: and I are going to do a Q&A,
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: a live Q&A at 12 Eastern Time on Tuesday through Save America Movement's channel
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: and our own answering people's questions about the executive order and
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: about vaccines.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I love that.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: And just for everybody,
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: just for everybody's refreshing,
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: Kavita Patel was actually part of the Biden administration's health policy.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, this is Anita Patel.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, Anita Patel.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: I do know Kavita too, but this is Anita Patel.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so let me scratch that.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: Two massive errors I've made on this show.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: No worries.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: The first one was showing up with Angie.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: I was going to get a word in today,
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: but I mean, I'm
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: glad you texted and you're like, we're in studio.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: Where are you?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, shit, I was about to put on my foundation.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: So like there's a lot of like when we talk about public health policy
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: and I everybody kind of talks about public health from a medical standpoint.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: But what we what I want to try to impress
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: upon everybody who's watching is it's not just about the medical services
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: that you're getting.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's also the vaccine services, the public health epidemiology analyses.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's the governance of surveillance data that's missing.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: We all saw the news with the outbreak of the measles in certain parts of
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: the country, in Texas and South Carolina and Eastern Virginia.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: And all of these things did not exist two years ago.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: No, and you know, Eric, I mean, this is a really good point.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people keep saying,
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: oh, well, it's not, it's not just because of Kennedy, like this happened before.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: And they're right,
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: you know, Nick,
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: you mentioned that the way that that vaccination uptake is measured by the CDC
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: and public health organizations is by how many kindergartners have been vaccinated
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: before they start school.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why they're always talking about like the number of kindergartners
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: who are vaccinated.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: It has been falling steeply.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: And of course,
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: in places like Arkansas and red states,
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: places that have less funding for education,
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: places that have less funding for health care,
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: all of those places, vaccine rates are going down for a variety of reasons.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: And some of them are not Robert F.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: Kennedy Jr.'s fault,
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: but many of them are because before he became the HHS secretary,
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: He was America's most famous anti-vaxxer,
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: and it is his relentless propaganda that he put out for decades,
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: and I should add,
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: made a very large amount of money on,
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: is what has persuaded people that vaccines maybe are unsafe,
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: maybe they're not effective.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: people start listening to what the anti-vaxxers say and thinking
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: about it critically,
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: they will realize that a lot of what they say contradicts itself.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times those messages are so tailored to hit a particular thing
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: that one person wants to hear because they're actually political messages
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: and not health messages.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: But that is what convinces people, I think, to not get vaccinated.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that is the role that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is serving in this administration.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: It is to intentionally make kids more kids sicker by driving down the immunization rates.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: And just for every reference, I mean, I know the answer, but I want everybody to hear this.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: What should be the national vaccination rates for, say,
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: varicella,
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: for measles, mumps,
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: rubella,
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_02: for influenza,
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: across the board when we're talking about immunity and protecting society?
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so these are all different vaccines.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the MMR works differently for measles than, say, the influenza vaccine.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: But...
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: The reason why people need to get the MMR vaccine is that it is 97% effective,
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: but measles is the most contagious virus that we know of.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: And you need to have 95% of the population or more vaccinated against measles
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: to prevent measles outbreaks.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: So in all these places where it's like, oh, it's not that bad, it's only 92%.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, you're one Case away from having that take off in your community.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why we're seeing a pattern of measles outbreaks that we're seeing now.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's because in these local clusters,
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: these are community groups and some of them are religious groups, some of them.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know,
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: the Mennonite faith is not actually anti-vaccine,
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: but in a particular part of this Mennonite community,
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: they had a lot of issues with the government and government overreach.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why they were refusing vaccines.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: Other communities might have actual religious reasons to do it.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Other people may just not know what to think.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so they're not going to go get vaccinated until they understand what's going on.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: But in those communities, those local centers, that's how measles outbreaks happen.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's not one big measles outbreak across the country.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why it's not going to be going away anytime soon,
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: because as these groups swell and you get sort of a critical mass of kids
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: that are susceptible,
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to have a measles outbreak,
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: then you're going to have immunity in that community,
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: but it's going to move somewhere else
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: because we just keep making more susceptible kids.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: So for families who are looking or possibly planning to have children,
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: how do you see this impacting them, pregnancies?
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: I know in Arkansas,
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: there was an article that just came out saying that In almost every county of
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: the state,
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: you have to go out of county to get pregnancy care,
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: to get an OBGYN because there are so few left in our state.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: How do you see these types of like vaccine quote mandates?
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because executive orders are not law.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: They're just an executive order saying this is what I want to have become law
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: or this is how I want it to be done.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: But it's not really law.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: But how
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: do we help parents find the right resources and even find OBGYNs or pregnancy health?
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: And how is this going to affect moms or soon-to-be moms or women who want to be mothers?
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: How is this all going to affect them?
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is such a great question because the past week or so, Time is a flat circle.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: Did it happen two weeks ago?
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: It was last week.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: There was this misinformation that essentially
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: the COVID vaccine caused 82% miscarriage rate in pregnant people who got it.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that's obviously untrue.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if that happened, like there would be no babies being born.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: We'd know it if eight out of every 10 pregnant people we ever met had
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: a spontaneous abortion or miscarriage.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's not something that you could cover up and hide,
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: but it's a great example of how this type of misinformation spreads
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: because you have Maria Bartiromo reporting it on Fox News and looking very serious,
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: and people will believe that.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I understand completely why pregnant people,
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: especially those who can't access prenatal care or pregnancy care or even any kind
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: of reproductive health care, We'll have a lot of questions about that.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: One thing that I'm actually incredibly worried about is rubella virus,
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: because in particular,
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, people haven't ever seen what a rubella epidemic looks like.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: That will cause massive spontaneous abortion in pregnant people,
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: and it will cause babies that are born to mothers who have rubella virus
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: To be born potentially with very severe intellectual and sensory disabilities.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it is a particular virus that has a big impact on pregnant people.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: But the problem is the vaccine is a live attenuated vaccine.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: So pregnant people cannot get the vaccine.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: You need to get vaccinated or get your titers checked before you get pregnant.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: And in a place where you have to go out of county to even get any kind
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: of basic care, How are people going to even be aware of that?
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because again,
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: we haven't had major rubella epidemics in this country because just like measles,
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: we eliminated it with vaccination.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know the answer to this problem, Nick,
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: because the healthcare access issue is one that is going
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: to be extremely community specific.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: And this is gonna be an extremely unsatisfying answer,
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: but what can pregnant people do Listen to people like us who are going
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: to give them accurate information,
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: get as much health care as they can, and we'll keep figuring out ways to do that.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: But also, this is my strong belief about everything.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's this trend now of like,
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: we're going to befriend all the Maha people,
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: and we need to listen to them,
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: and we need to hear their concerns and understand where they're coming from.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'm down to do that, but guess what?
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm not that concerned with that.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to preach to the converted.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: I need to get the people who are on top of that movement the fuck out of their positions.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I'm focusing on.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I'm telling pregnant people and parents that I'm focusing on.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'll give you good information and I'll transfer you to people who have information
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: about stuff that I don't know about, who you can rely upon.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think our network of people Are really committed to that,
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: making sure people do have that good information.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: But in the meantime, I think it's on us.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: And by us,
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean people in the public health space,
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: people who are fighting for democracy to get these guys out of there.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why elections matter, everybody.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: There you go.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to circle back.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: I want to circle back real quick to the to the measles thing with the Mennonite community.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: So if everybody remembers back, I believe it was I think it was in February and in April.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: There was the three-year-old and the eight-year-old,
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: and they're both from the same county, and they both occurred in Texas.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: It was Gaines County,
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: and there was a heavy Mennonite community, and that's the one we were referring to.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_02: But the other problem here,
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: both Angie, Nick,
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_02: and everybody watching,
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: is that when you start having exceptions increase because states allow parents
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: to accept, to do exemptions from the vaccines.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: On religious reasons, we see this in New York State.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: In the Orthodox community,
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: we see it in Gaines County with the Mennonite community and just whatever it is.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: But the biggest thing for me,
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: it's not so much it's not in as much that the vaccination rates are going down
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_02: as rapidly.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's the exception rates are going up exponentially.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: It went from like two and a half percent to four point two percent in under a year.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's that's like an 80 percent increase in exceptions and exemptions.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_02: Excuse me.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: And that's to me is the bigger problem on messaging about the public health On
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_02: the need to vaccinate,
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: and that's, to me,
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_02: that's the bigger number is,
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_02: yes, we've seen like the 95% herd immunity number that we want dropping to 92.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: And that's been a slow kind of shizzle away over the last 10 years with the anti-vax movement.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: But the exemption rate has doubled in under a year.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: And that's more concerning as a healthcare provider.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: Because now you've got people deliberately looking for Reasons to not get it and
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: then use religion or whatever as a meaningful purpose to not vaccinate their kids,
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_02: which puts the entire community at risk.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: Remember,
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: I think I even wrote this,
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think in one article on the measles outbreak,
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: that one measles case in a high school can wipe out or even
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: an elementary school can wipe out the entire district in a week.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, measles is incredible.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: We're talking a whole district, not just one school, the whole district.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think I don't think that people recognize I'm really worried about something else.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that is just the fact that school is starting again,
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: because I don't think people realize,
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: you know, so much of this stuff is at community level.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: You're talking about exemption rates and exemptions oftentimes are determined
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: by state law, and sometimes they are allowed by local laws as well.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: So if you have a community that ends up being very anti-vax and ends up having
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: a significant number of people who are part of an anti-vax movement,
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: you end up with more exemption laws and then other people take advantage of those
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: or they avail themselves of those.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so this really is, it does become a community issue.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: Just like measles outbreaks happen in communities,
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: they spread within communities like schools,
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then they spread to other communities, but they are not an even thing.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: This has to be dealt with at community level.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so again, Nick, to come back to, I'm so full of unsatisfying answers for parents.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: I always have an answer.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you really have answers though on this.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: Even if they're unsatisfying,
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: having information and having answers is really important
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: because having knowledge is power, but focused knowledge is real power.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so I want to follow this, what we've been talking about up with.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: We haven't even gotten to the full effects of what
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: the big billionaire bullshit bill is going to do to the healthcare systems.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: We have not seen the manipulation.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: The big bullshit bill that has already started decimating public health,
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: but is going to Further decimate after the election.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: And most of the major cuts are coming after the midterm elections
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: because Republicans wanted to sneak them in after Democrats came into power
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: because they knew they were going to lose a year ago to the Democrats.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so they're going to find a way to blame it on Democrats because
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: the big bullshit bill does not come into effect until 2027.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: How are you...
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: Helping approach this to spread the right information and not disinform
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: or misinform people on what's going on.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: How are you using the Save America movement,
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: your platforms,
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: other professionals like Doc Eric and others in the fields to spread the right type
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: of information to people so that they know, one, there's more damage coming.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: And two, who's actually responsible for that damage?
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad you asked this because now this gives me a chance to talk about all
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: the science stuff I get to show off.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_02: This is why I brought you on the show.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_02: Finally, it took 43 minutes.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: We finally got here.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, trying to not misinform people, that's just my training as a scientist.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I bet Eric is similar.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I know from reading his material that he is like,
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: cite your evidence,
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: cite your sources, like Don't just tell people like this is the way it is.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like actually give people something.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: Also give them something they can access.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes that's like a peer reviewed published paper.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes that's a table with the data source cited.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like you got to not only give people good information,
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: but you have to give it to them in a way that they're actually going to want
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: to absorb it and like take it in and engage with it.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I really do work a lot on that, but as part of this big AI project.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I kind of started thinking about all of this stuff as in line with what I do.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: So my research studies the role of the host
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: in determining how sick basically you get if you get infected with one
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: of these emerging viruses.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: So Ebola, flu,
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: whatever,
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: what happens is the virus infects you,
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: but it doesn't just make you sick by killing your cells.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: Elicits all these different responses,
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: inflammatory responses,
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: antiviral responses, immune responses, all sorts of things, changes your metabolism.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: This is probably where long COVID comes from,
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: is essentially the virus is reprogramming the host, and that can be residual.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of post-viral infection syndromes, for example.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: We don't really know a lot about it,
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: but boy,
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: does this seem like something that's just perfect for my area of expertise,
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: because what I do is use AI To start untangling these really complicated problems.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I do it usually with gene expression sequence data.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: But why can't I do that with government data about the U.S.?
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm studying the pathogenesis of fascism as well as the pathogenesis of emerging viruses.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: And as part of that,
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: my colleague at the Save America Movement,
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: Jonathan Wilson Hartgrove,
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: He approached me and asked if there were ways that we could apply statistical
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: and Bayesian modeling techniques to tracking policy.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so the policy that he would like to track is the One Big Beautiful Bill Act.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: And what he specifically would like to track is its impact on health care.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I have downloaded all of that data from CMS,
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: as well as a lot of other data that will be very relevant in terms
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: of OMB expenditures,
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: in terms of Different block grants to states and different programs that that funds.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to be trying to actually quantify policy impacts going forward to
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: the point where perhaps we could even forecast some
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: of those impacts more accurately.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know if it's going to work.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: And this is a totally new sort of direction for me to go in scientifically.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: But my husband changed careers.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: From a proteomics guy to a data scientist a couple of years ago,
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: and his attitude about it was it's all the same math.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's just different data.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm confident that I'm going to at least find some interesting stuff,
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: even if I can't solve the whole problem with AI and machine learning.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: But stay tuned is the long or the short answer to that question,
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: because I will actually hopefully have Some numbers
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: of those policy impacts specifically on the health care system
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: for individual states all the way down to individual counties.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's fantastic.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's information like that could and will be probably a lifesaver to many people.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: What I'm hoping is that I'll be able to distribute it to individual communities.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, I should have silenced my phone.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: I will be able to,
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: we'll be able to actually send this out to individual communities
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: so people can know like which issues are going to affect them and impact their lives
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: the absolute most.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: How do you, because there's a lot of distrust with AI.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I understand like I, I have a lot of distrust with certain aspects of AI.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: I use AI myself for some things.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really great assistant and tool that can be used
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: to augment what you're doing,
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: your research, the coding and development and different things.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_01: How are you going to ensure that people trust the data?
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: That you're going to be providing out of this because knowing that they'll know
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: that there is an AI model that has supported the creation of it.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: How do you build trust for that information so people don't just dismiss it as like
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: as AI drivel or nonsense?
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: This is something that I'm really now I've realized I need to start communicating
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: to people better.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: There are so many different ways to use AI.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: And when I say I'm using AI to predict the outcome of a viral infection,
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not like, hey, Claude, what's going to happen to this patient?
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even use generative AI to actually do any kind of predictive work.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's standard Bayesian.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, technically it is AI, but it's not generative.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: Machine learning classification methods and different types
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: of Bayesian modeling methods These are standard statistical approaches.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: Where AI comes into the equation is I used to have a bioinformatician writing code
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: for me, and now I have my extremely toxic and manipulative collaborator, Claude.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so AI is actually not doing the predictions.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's still me who is tracking this.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: AI is my slave and is writing code for me.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a great Differentiator in what you're talking about.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: And to me,
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_01: that builds trust as someone who uses AI for as a tool as what it's supposed
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: to be is it augments my work capabilities and helps me do more in less time.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: But it doesn't do the math for you.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's you doing the math.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's you doing the modeling.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's really important to keep that differentiation and distinguisher
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: because there is a lot of distrust with AI.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: But there's less distrust with standard statistical modeling.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, you know, the thing is, it's like any type of science experiment.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_00: Before we had AI,
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: we used to talk about p-hacking,
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: which is the process of manipulating your statistical tests so that the outcome of
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: that,
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: which is called a p-value,
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: is lower than 0.05,
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: which is sort of the default standard for statistical significance.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: So if you,
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: tweak one of these parameters here and then all of a sudden your p-value is 0.049.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, look, it's a statistically significant result.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_00: But that's called p-hacking.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that's,
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: a no-no because it's actually massaging and manipulating your data
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: to make it say something that it actually doesn't.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: One thing that I really try to communicate to people a lot,
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: and this has to do with my involvement in all of the COVID origin stuff,
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: the lies that people are saying about Tony Fauci is that he said stuff privately
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: that he disagreed with in public or he later said something different to the press
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: than he was saying to Francis Collins.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: And they've said this about me and a lot of my collaborators, too, based on our old emails.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's the reality of the scientific method.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: We get new information and sometimes it disproves what we thought before
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_00: and we change our minds.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just really,
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: really trying to communicate this to people that it's actually normal
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: to say this was wrong.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: We need to do it this way.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, with with AI, I have to keep Claude.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: I spend so much time keeping Claude from doing its own modeling.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: From not running controls,
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_00: from not reading the data files before it sticks them in the model that I've told it
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: to run.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I have to keep my foot on this thing's proverbial neck that doesn't exist.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really challenging.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: But because I am a scientist and because professionally I have standards
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: for reporting my results,
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: My intention is that as I share these things,
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_00: people will have full access to the data sources.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm using government data that's publicly available,
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: so it's not secret, and I will make all of my methods freely available.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's the only thing that I find Claude useful for writing.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: Write what you did, Claude.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: Include all the mistakes that you made.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate that you're You're as a scientist,
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_01: you're putting the effort in to ensure that the data and that you are not trying
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: to massage or manipulate it into the results that you want,
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: but you're actually just providing the data because that's the important aspect is
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_01: the data.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: And what does it actually mean?
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: And how do we get something useful out of this data?
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for putting Those efforts out there because this information is going
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: to save lives.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to help parents save their children's lives.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to help parents save their own lives.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to help us be healthier.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I appreciate the efforts that you're putting in.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's all I want.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's really heavy living with the knowledge of what's going to happen because of
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: the immunization stuff alone.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then like,
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: I can scare the shit out of everybody by talking about what happens if H5N1 makes
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: the jump to becoming human to human transmissible.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we are looking at potential just absolute disaster,
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: but I think we're looking at disaster sooner than that with stuff that's
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: a lot more routine.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_00: What's gonna happen if there is an influenza outbreak In a small community
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: that has had their health resources cut where there's already a measles outbreak.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: And Eric can speak more than me since he actually treats patients.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, there's only so much equipment.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_02: Which part of shit and show do you want to form into one?
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's a it's a huge risk to that community's health and their children.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's also a huge national security risk because what happens
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_00: when our health systems start failing around the country?
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the other part that most people don't understand.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_02: I wrote on this too when Casey Means was going through her confirmation hearings as
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: the Surgeon General,
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_02: was that our public health policy is one of our national security pillars.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like when you start eroding public health and you make the population susceptible to
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_02: a airborne biological weapon in the form of a disease or a viral infection
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_02: that can spread through the community, And spread through a population.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_02: Now you don't even have a community epidemic.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_02: You have a countrywide pandemic on top of the potential of holy shit moment.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_02: And we don't have a pandemic task force.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_02: Trump wiped it out again.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_02: He did it in 16 when he got elected after he wiped out Obama's pandemic task force,
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_02: which is why Zika virus did not come to the United States.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_02: And Ebola the first time around did not come to the United States.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it did, but it didn't spread.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_02: But it wasn't spreading.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_02: But in a thing like in a country like we are today,
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_02: where all it takes is one person to hop on an aluminum sardine can and fly
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_02: from rural Wyoming to major Denver International Airport and start spreading
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_02: a disease.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it doesn't take much.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_02: And and like.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_02: From a public health perspective, it's vaccines and handwashing.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't get much more so.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're sick, stay home.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like I understand you have to go to work and you need to make money,
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_02: but if you are legitimately sick and you're prodromal and you're feverish
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_02: and you're sweating, you're seeding virus or bacteria.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_02: You are a threat to your coworkers and other people.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_02: And this is where kind of common sense needs to play in everybody.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you're just that sick, Stay home.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_02: If you're running a high-grade fever, that's usually a bacterial infection, not viral.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_00: Most viral infections,
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_02: and it depends.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_02: But the majority of common viruses,
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_02: influenza,
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_02: rhinovirus,
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_02: are going to be low-grade fevers,
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_02: except in children, where they're going to run higher.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not uncommon for infants and toddlers to run 102,
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_02: 103, 104, because they don't have a phenomenal immune response yet.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know,
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_02: so this is why you talk to your family physicians,
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_02: you talk to your interns, you talk to your pediatricians.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know,
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_02: you are referencing specialty websites like the American Academy of Pediatrics,
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_02: the Infectious Disease Society of America.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_02: Rasmussen Reports.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_00: Rasmussen, but everybody calls it Rasmussen, so it's fine.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_00: But that's the way the bad Rasmussens pronounce it that way.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_02: Right, the bad Rasmussen.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_00: Rasmussen Reports, Rasmussen Retort.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean,
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_02: but this is where as patients and we're all patients,
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_02: like we all have seen a physician one time in the last three to five years.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_02: Makes you a patient.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_02: You have a relationship with your physicians.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's okay to ask questions.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_02: I want you to ask me the questions because the only dumb question is the one you don't ask.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_02: And if I don't know the answer, I will get you the answer.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_02: At least that's what good physicians do is they don't want you leaving the office
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_02: with more questions than answers.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're getting that,
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_02: and then the other thing that I want to just touch upon is we were talking
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_02: about like the Medicaid cuts that are going to come next year.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_02: Think about how many rural hospitals have closed in the last two years because of
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_02: the funding cuts in this administration.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's brutal.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_02: I have Substack creator friends of mine on here who live in rural parts of
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_02: the country where they have to drive an hour just to go get medical care.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's not acceptable.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_02: And when you start tacking on CDC cuts, FDA cuts, NIH cuts,
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_02: Medicare cuts, Medicaid cuts.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_00: And they're going to try to sneak the OMB stuff back in.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, absolutely they are.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_02: Especially in the lame duck session.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_02: I expect the SAVE Act to pass.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_02: They're going to sneak that shit through.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_02: They're going to sneak in probably OMB policy issues.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_02: And don't forget everybody, we're still going through rulemaking.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_02: Thank God that we have a rulemaking process in this country because it's
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_02: the only thing that has stopped this administration From really putting through
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_02: a lot of the shit that they're supposed,
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_02: that they wanted to put through in Project 2025.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why this was an executive order,
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_00: by the way, because they can't get around the rulemaking requirements.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_02: Can't get around the rulemaking.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_02: And the biggest one right now,
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_02: that's the three things that are sitting right now at Medicare and HHS is
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_02: the outpatient prospective payment system,
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_02: the inpatient prospective payment system,
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_02: and the physician fee one, which they are just wiping out the physicians.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_02: Certain specialties go up, some go down, but for the most part, ENTs, dermatology, podiatry.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's one other one that are getting massively cut.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is a good point, Eric,
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: to say also that for the people watching who might be like,
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_00: oh, Eric just wants to get paid more.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the people who say that, oh,
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_00: she just wants more of that Fauci grant money, like to just make it rain on her lab.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_00: And, um, No,
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_00: like people actually things cost money,
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_00: including like salaries and like our mortgage payments and stuff.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_00: So like people need to get paid a living wage and that includes doctors.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I do want people to understand that this is not just Eric sad because he's going
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_00: to get a little bit of a pay cut.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_00: This makes it impossible for people to be doctors financially.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_02: Let me put this in perspective for everybody.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_02: So when we look at hospitals,
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_02: hospice,
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_02: home health,
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_02: They statutorily under the Social Security Act get a 2.4% raise every fiscal year.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_02: Physicians haven't gotten that since 2001.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_02: Physicians have not been adjusted for inflation.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_02: If we were, there's a thing called the conversion factor.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_02: So every procedure code,
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_02: even an office visit has a specific value unit that gets multiplied by
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_02: that conversion factor.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_02: And that equates out to what the fee schedule is.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_02: So For example, an office visit might have a work unit of say like 3.5.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_02: So you multiply that by the conversion factor.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_02: So this year it's $33.65.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_02: If we adjusted it for inflation,
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_02: everybody,
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_02: and keep in mind that physicians have not had a raise in the conversion factor
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_02: since 2001.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_02: If we adjust the conversion factor for inflation,
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_02: my conversion rate based on the work value Should be at $65.16.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm getting $33 today.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_02: So don't complain about the physicians.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's not the physicians making all the money.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's the hospitals.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's the pharma companies.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's the CEOs of the health insurance companies and everybody else
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_02: that has their hand in the cookie jar on the Part A hospital facility side
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_02: of medicine.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's not the Part B outpatient stuff.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's not your community level physician.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's all going to the facility.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_02: And this administration shifted a lot of money back to the hospitals.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you to the American Hospital Association and their lobby group and
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_02: the American Pharmaceutical Association and their lobby group
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_02: for buying Mar-a-Lago memberships and shifting money back into the facility.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_02: And they cut NIH, they cut CDC.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_02: There is literally zero funding now for independent research
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_02: at university level labs, where new drugs, new devices, innovation.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_02: We have no innovation going on right now from
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_02: a medical laboratory development standpoint,
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_02: unless there was stuff that was already in the pipeline,
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_02: but there is literally going to be zero innovation.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_02: This president and this administration have killed the scientific innovation
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_02: That is what allowed this country to develop the robotic prosthetics
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_02: for Nick's fellow veterans at the VA. That money's gone.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_02: Team pool management.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they are.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_01: I lost when the big, beautiful bill first happened.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_01: I lost my provider of multiple years,
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_01: and I am thankful that I had finished going through The diagnoses
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_01: and screening process for fibromyalgia and that I had been diagnosed
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_01: before I lost my provider because my new one doesn't give shit.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_01: My new one doesn't care because they can't because they're overburdened
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_01: because my VA is at a quarter staff.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it's going to get worse.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_01: This is genocidal eugenics.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, gene pool management, genocide in slow motion.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's what they've done.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_00: back in October when Russell Vogt implemented the reductions in force at the CDC,
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_00: that was the point when I was like,
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think the agency is going to actually be able to function at all.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what's happening across
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's the plan.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_00: Everywhere.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, at the VA.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it's going to be the same thing with Medicare providers,
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_00: with Medicaid providers.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same thing at NIH, the CDC.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_02: Paralyze the agency.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know why?
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_02: Paralyze the agency.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_02: You paralyze the agency so it can't function.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_02: Thereby, the government has no other alternative than to privatize the agency.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_00: And guess who's going to be first in line for all of those private contracts?
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, right.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_00: The people who are all buying memberships to Mar-a-Lago and whatnot.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's- Billionaire bullshit billionaire class.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_02: And it's, I mean, we all get- We didn't talk about it.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_02: If everybody notices, here's the other thing I was going to bring up.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_02: We were talking about FDA and food supply,
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_02: and I forgot to make this comment earlier,
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_02: but how many times now have you gone to the grocery store
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_02: and you're seeing more seedless fruit and vegetables?
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_00: I live in Canada, so I can't.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, you have that fine.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_02: But like, I mean,
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_02: the issue of continuing to have lab grown fruit with no seeds means
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_00: that they're not lab grown, though.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they're just hybrids that don't produce seeds.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_02: They're hybrids, but if you're not getting the seeds, you can't plant in your own garden.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, but do you get seeds from like grocery store watermelons to like planting?
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I live in Saskatoon, so I don't grow a lot of vegetables.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's like the caribou tundra up there.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_00: You should see this.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_00: You see that?
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's like Tuscany out there.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_00: I got some Canadian grapes that can survive minus 40 temperatures.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_00: My neighbor,
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_00: who I don't like,
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_00: has a bunch of this tacky Virginia creeper that everybody likes here.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I got grapes, and I'm like an Italian person.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_00: This is my villa.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we are at the top of our hour, just a little bit over.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_01: And Angie,
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_01: I want to give you a moment here to be able to promote your work and also to just,
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_01: again, thank you for being here, being on with us, coming to talk with us.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd love to have you back for more and bring all the graphs you want
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_01: and send them to me and Eric and I will put up all the graphs that you want.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_01: Make more room for the graphs if I do this.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_01: We'll make all the room for the graphs so that they can all be up because those are amazing.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_01: So please,
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to put up your QR code here and then promote yourself
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_01: and how people can find you and the work that you're doing.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, awesome.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Nick.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so in addition to being the science chair for the Save America movement,
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_00: and you can always follow them and get back to me that way,
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm at Rasmussen Retorts on Substack, rasmussenretorts.substack.com.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_00: Rasmussen has no ass in it.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_00: R-A-S-M-U-S-S-E-N, and it's S-E-N, the Norwegian way, not S-O-N, the Swedish way.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_00: Anyways, that's where you can find me.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_00: Stay tuned and subscribe to me.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_00: I guess I'm really bad at this part,
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_00: but please do subscribe to me because I am building this large model.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_00: That we can use to ask all sorts of interesting questions.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_00: Using my expertise at studying viral pathogenesis to study the pathogenesis of
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_00: the disease that is afflicting our society,
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_00: I am able to answer specific questions and I will be doing more Substack Lives.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_00: I used to have my own daily Substack Live show,
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_00: but it was too much work and I just don't have it in me right now.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm trying to rethink about how to do that most effectively.
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_00: But you can see me on Tuesday on the Save America Movement's channel or
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_00: at Rasmussen Retorts with Dr.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_00: Anita Patel answering all of your vaccine questions at 12 noon.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Doc, Angie.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Nick.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you, Eric, for introducing me, introducing us and inviting me on.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_00: This has been a lot of fun.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_02: So for those of you that have seen my last show on DiGenes,
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_02: because I will be replaced by Dr. Angie in the near future.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_02: So you guys can reach me here on Substack at Dr.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_02: Eric Lulove, at Dr. Lulove on Substack.
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_02: You can also find me through Blue Ant Media with my writings and my posting
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_02: through Blue Ant Media.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_02: Again,
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to take anything less from our phenomenal guest today who is just
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_02: A plus spectacular.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm so glad that I thought of the idea to have you come on today because A,
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_02: we've been talking about doing a show for a while,
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_02: but I'm like, let's do this with Nick because I know Nick will get up.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_00: This is fantastic.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_00: Not that I don't want to discuss space and stuff.
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we had talked about science shows and stuff,
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_00: but I think that I love talking about science.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what?
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_00: I also really love talking about science in this context because I think it's
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_00: so important right now.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I really want to thank you again.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_01: And Doc Eric,
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_01: I want to thank you,
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_01: too, for always coming on and teaching me a whole bunch of stuff, too.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_01: Finally,
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_01: come support us here at Sick of this Shit Publications so you can just suck less
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_01: because he does this every week.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_01: We've got our big water bottle of just suck less with Sick of this Shit Publications.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_01: We're also doing a end of August heat wave sale here on the network
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_01: with 50% off forever membership at Sick of this Shit Publications.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_01: We also have our shop, which is sickofthisshop.com.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_01: Sick of this shop dot com where you can get your water bottle because it's hot
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_01: and you need some water.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_01: So drink 40 ounces of water at a time and tell those around you to just suck less.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_01: Not so subtly, especially at airports.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_01: They are TSA compliant, so you can bring them through an airport.
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_01: And if you see a member of ICE or some asshole who's at the airport.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_01: Just take your water bottle and remind them, just suck less.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_01: And if you need to,
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_01: pour some water on those gloves that they're wearing because you don't know
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_01: if they're shock gloves nowadays.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_01: I've got a really good straw in here too.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_00: It wouldn't surprise me if they used poorly insulated wiring for those.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah,
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_01: those shock gloves,
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_01: they do have a failure point of There have been a
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_02: couple stories that have come out
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_02: and we do need to talk about the shock gloves by compliant technologies.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_02: They have been used in prisons for a while now and there
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_01: is a case from 2024
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_01: that has alleged that the
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Gloves were used inappropriately for anywhere between 19,
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_01: like it was like 35 and 50 some odd or longer seconds being held on somebody,
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_01: which helped lead to their death in the prison.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_01: There have been,
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_01: there were two incidences in an Omaha school for disabilities,
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_01: school for children with disabilities.
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_01: There were two incidences where they're claiming that the, it was,
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_01: They're very low on the details on this right now on what happened in those schools.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_01: But there were two incidences at one Omaha school for special education for kids
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_01: with disabilities and needs where the shot gloves were used.
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_01: And if you are a resource officer who is using a shot glove on a child,
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_01: you're abusing that child.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_00: How is that not assault?
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't understand.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_01: And if you are an adult who works in a school and is not stopping somebody
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_01: from laying hands on a child like that, you are wrong.
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_01: You're wrong.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_01: You're wrong.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_01: My mom is a retired school psychologist, a very slight woman.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_01: She never needed to use a freaking shot glove to get a child under control.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that's And we need to be talking about that.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_01: So that'll definitely be something we're going to be bringing up.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_01: I do have to go.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm getting a call.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_01: I got another show I got to jump to.
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for being with us.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_01: And as I always say, we're done being sick of this shit.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_01: So now we're doing this shit.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Have a great one, y'all.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody have a great day.