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S2E45 - "Stay With Me!": Parenting Through Bedtime Battles with Confidence—Without Becoming the Crutch · Play Therapy Parenting: Real Parenting Questions Answered by a Child Therapist

• 0:02
  You're listening to the
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  Play Therapy Parenting Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.
• 0:09
  Hi,
• 0:09
  I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,
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  The Kid Counselor.
• 0:11
  This is the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast where I give you insight,
• 0:14
  awareness,
• 0:15
  and enlightenment about your parenting
• 0:17
  and your relationship with your kids.
• 0:19
  Today's episode,
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  I am answering a question from another Whitney.
• 0:22
  That's not even a common name,
• 0:23
  y'all,
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  and I've had two Whitney's email me in close proximity to each other.
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  So,
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  hello to you,
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  Whitney's out there.
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  One of my very good friends is Whitney,
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  but I only have one.
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  So
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  there's a very small group of you all and thank you to two of you for emailing me.
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  Brenna is another one,
• 0:39
  you know,
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  I've only met maybe 10 or 11 brenna's in my whole life,
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  so it's always fun when you have a unique name and you meet someone else.
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  So Whitney meet Whitney,
• 0:49
  and this is a different one than the one I answered a couple times ago.
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  This one is about bedtime struggles
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  and specifically
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  how to handle when the emotions get so high
• 1:02
  and feeling like there's an insensitivity there.
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  So,
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  Whitney #2,
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  I really appreciate this email because this
• 1:09
  is not just a question about how to handle it,
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  it's actually how to use these child-centered play therapy parenting approaches
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  with the wrestling of,
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  but is this actually helpful and and my feelings around it.
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  So
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  I think this is gonna be really helpful for all of us.
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  So let me read parts of the email and then we'll dive in.
• 1:28
  Over the past 5 months,
• 1:30
  my daughter has made enough progress to go to bed and allow me to go
• 1:33
  downstairs or go to bed if I meet up with a friend in the evening.
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  She still gets worried,
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  but she's able to handle it herself.
• 1:40
  However,
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  there are still nights where she gets overtired,
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  can't fall asleep,
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  and then begins to worry and comes to me to help her out.
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  She won't stay in her room,
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  but if I tell her that she's supposed to,
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  it exacerbates the issues because she feels locked in and then panics.
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  Without me,
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  she hyperventilates,
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  sobs,
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  and make makes big statements like I wish I weren't alive so I wouldn't feel this way.
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  Thank you for your podcast on those types of statements.
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  You're welcome,
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  Whitney.
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  I'm usually very consistent and clear.
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  I'm not one of those parents who gives in or gets embroiled in power struggles.
• 2:10
  I'm well informed and reflective,
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  and I'm still struggling with this because of this one thing.
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  I'm worried that setting limits in a certain way in
• 2:17
  this scenario is somehow punishing my daughter for her emotions.
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  She's at the point where she believes that she cannot calm down on her own.
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  I don't know how to help her get unstuck from there.
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  Once she's at an 8 or more on a 1 to 10 scale,
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  she seeks me out relentlessly.
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  She says she's scared and doesn't know why.
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  She sometimes says she's sad and overwhelmed.
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  I reflect her feelings.
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  I gently encourage.
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  I use choice language.
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  I remind her in the daytime when she's not flooded with
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  fear that she can't lean on me all the time.
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  And I still end up feeling like walking away from her
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  when she is so clearly out of control is insensitive.
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  And then I get frustrated in the moment because I'm not sure if
• 2:56
  staying or going will further the larger goal of her confidence and independence,
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  not to mention the fact that I usually go to bed at 9 and her
• 3:03
  problems seem to start then when I am at my most tired and least patient.
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  All right,
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  Whitney,
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  thank you so much.
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  So let's kind of make sense of this.
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  So first and foremost,
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  this is a very common
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  scenario,
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  so keep in mind kids have control over a handful of
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  things and they all fit on one of your hands,
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  not two.
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  So
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  sleeping is one of those
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  5 or less items.
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  And when we were just talking about toileting last episode,
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  right,
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  so toileting and sleeping are two of the majors.
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  In her case,
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  Yes,
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  this is a power grab.
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  Yes,
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  this is her fight for control,
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  but not in the truest sense.
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  This is something that I think is going to be really helpful for all of us.
• 3:49
  When
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  kids or adults,
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  it doesn't matter,
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  when humans
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  have super high levels of anxiety,
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  unmanageable levels of anxiety.
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  Everything feels completely out of control
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  and you feel completely powerless.
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  So the unconscious says
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  take control over something,
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  grasp for power in some way.
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  So in your daughter's case,
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  Whitney,
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  this is more of a means to an end.
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  This is not truly a power and control thing.
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  This is,
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  I am so anxious.
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  I just want to feel like I have control.
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  So what can she control
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  insisting that you're in there with her.
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  And here's what I suspect happened.
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  I think this was an original
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  organic
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  true moment where you helped her feel better.
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  In other words,
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  she got so overwhelmed,
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  she was so disregulated,
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  her anxiety was so high,
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  you came in,
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  you were able to help her calm down.
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  So she associated you in that very original organic moment as mom makes this better.
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  That's the way that typically patterns begin.
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  It happened in a raw real way the first time,
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  first few times maybe.
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  So she associated,
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  mom makes this better.
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  Well,
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  now this has become a hat,
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  a habit,
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  and a pattern.
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  So now,
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  You said she believes that she cannot calm down on her own.
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  That's maladaptive and it's misinformed,
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  but she's been conditioned to think
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  that you are the security blanket,
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  you are the crutch,
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  you are the way that helps her feel better.
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  So she is capable of calming down on her own,
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  but she's never proven that to herself.
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  What has been proven is when you're there,
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  she feels better.
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  So you can see how this becomes a cycle and it started in a very real way.
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  I'm really scared,
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  Mom,
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  please stay.
• 5:45
  You did,
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  she felt better.
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  Great.
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  Well now
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  it's,
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  I need you here because you are what makes me feel better.
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  So that's kind of the undercurrent of what's going on
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  and that's often the way patterns develop with children.
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  It happens naturally at first and then it becomes conditioned.
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  So when
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  she gets this overwhelmed
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  and you are returning responsibility to her and you're reminding
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  her that she needs to stay in her room,
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  etc.
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  she's grasping at power because that is the antidote to anxiety.
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  It's fascinating to think about this.
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  This is kind of a a sidebar related aside,
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  but important.
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  We cannot simultaneously feel fear and anger at the same time.
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  So one strategy,
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  I'm not saying you should teach this to your child,
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  because kids aren't rational.
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  I'm just letting you all know,
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  kind of as a public service announcement,
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  it's helpful to recognize that fear and anger cannot coexist.
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  And one of the things that often happens is
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  kids will get angry
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  about something because it takes away the fear.
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  So when kids are highly anxious,
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  they will all of a sudden get mad or they'll
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  yell or they'll seem really aggressive and you're like,
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  what in the world is going on?
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  It's actually their way of coping with the fear.
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  So just wanted to throw that in there as well.
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  But
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  as far as your daughter goes,
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  Whitney.
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  When she is trying to get rid of this anxiety,
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  she's gonna grasp at any measure of power and control that she can get
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  because that reduces anxiety.
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  I don't feel powerless,
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  I don't feel out of control
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  if I
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  can insist upon something.
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  She's insisting on you.
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  And there are times when her anxiety is probably less.
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  And those are the times when you said she can handle it,
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  but you already acknowledged it,
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  she gets over tired.
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  We go back to the podcast in season one ages ago.
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  What are natural causes of issues for children,
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  they're tired,
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  they're hungry,
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  they're bored.
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  So she gets overtired.
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  She has no bandwidth left.
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  She's not cognitive and rational anyway.
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  So emotions are going to be bigger,
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  anxiety is going to feel worse,
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  everything's going to ramp up and escalate,
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  and then she's at the mercy of all these big feelings.
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  She doesn't have abstract reasoning.
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  So of course,
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  if she's overtired,
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  everything gets worse.
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  And keep in mind too,
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  anxiety
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  is always the worst at night.
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  Across the board for every age.
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  During the day you have distractions.
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  During the day you can be busy doing other things,
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  thinking about other things,
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  ignoring it,
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  avoiding it,
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  whatever.
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  You lay down at night,
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  it's dark,
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  it's quiet,
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  and all you have are your thoughts.
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  So almost always anxiety rears its head
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  in the biggest ways
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  at night.
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  That's a standard.
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  So we,
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  we kind of have perfect storm,
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  right,
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  Whitney,
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  of all of these things.
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  And so when you said I'm worried that setting limits in this
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  way in this scenario is punishing her for her own emotions.
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  I understand why you feel that way,
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  but
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  that's absolutely not going to happen if this is executed
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  with
• 8:59
  Accurate wording
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  The whole premise of limit setting
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  is you give your daughter alternatives
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  to get her original needs met.
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  So,
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  if her need is,
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  I want you in here.
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  But that's not part of the choice because A,
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  it's your bedtime too,
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  B,
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  you can't be her crutch forever.
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  C,
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  she goes to bed by herself,
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  you go to bed by yourself,
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  and that's the expectation in the home.
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  Therefore,
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  how do we provide alternatives
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  that allow her to get her need met
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  while still complying with the limit?
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  So you're going to say something like you'd really like me to stay in your room
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  or you'd really like me to be with you,
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  or you feel like you need me to help you calm down,
• 9:48
  OK,
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  whatever it is,
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  those needs are going to change depending on the moment.
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  Whatever the need is,
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  but the limit is.
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  But I'm not for being in your room when it's bedtime.
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  Or
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  Your bedroom is for you to be in when it's time to go to sleep,
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  not me,
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  whatever,
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  however you want to phrase that.
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  So that is the A and the C,
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  acknowledge the need,
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  feeling,
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  desire,
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  wish,
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  and then communicate the limit.
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  OK.
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  So we've tackled the first two steps.
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  The third step is crucial here,
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  Whitney,
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  because
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  this is how she doesn't feel punished.
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  You give her alternatives that you're OK with,
• 10:28
  that she's OK with,
• 10:29
  and that meet the need.
• 10:31
  So,
• 10:32
  she really wants you to help her calm down.
• 10:34
  So maybe the limit becomes you can choose for me to stay in here for
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  2 minutes or you can choose for me to stay in here for 5 minutes,
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  which do you choose?
• 10:42
  She wants you to stay in the room until she falls asleep,
• 10:46
  maybe.
• 10:47
  You can choose for me to stay in here for 2 minutes or
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  you can choose for me to stay in here for 5 minutes.
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  She wants you to
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  make her feel better.
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  You can choose for me to talk to you,
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  or you can choose for me to sing to you.
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  Which do you choose?
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  Whatever the need,
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  desire,
• 11:03
  intent,
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  or feeling is,
• 11:05
  the alternatives
• 11:07
  meet the need.
• 11:09
  While making sure that the boundaries are in place.
• 11:12
  You're not going to stay in there
• 11:15
  for the rest of the night.
• 11:15
  You're not going to stay in there when it's your bedtime.
• 11:18
  You're not going to be responsible for
• 11:20
  herself calming down.
• 11:23
  So you're going to have to set
• 11:24
  small choices in here.
• 11:26
  Why?
• 11:27
  Let's think about this.
• 11:28
  Let's go back.
• 11:29
  High levels of anxiety
• 11:31
  creates need for power and control.
• 11:33
  When you provide alternatives in a limit,
• 11:36
  you're giving children measures of control.
• 11:39
  She has a choice,
• 11:40
  she has power.
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  So that's not insensitive at all.
• 11:44
  It's actually empowering her.
• 11:47
  It's helping her solve her own problem.
• 11:49
  And she naturally has buy-in when she says I choose
• 11:52
  for you to stay in here for 5 minutes.
• 11:55
  She has solved her own problem,
• 11:58
  so you stay for 5 minutes and then you say you chose for me to stay in here for 5 minutes.
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  The 5 minutes are up.
• 12:04
  I love you,
• 12:05
  and you walk out of the room.
• 12:06
  And if she goes,
• 12:07
  Hold on,
• 12:07
  no,
• 12:07
  you can't leave yet.
• 12:09
  You'd really like me to stay,
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  but you chose for me to stay in here for 5 minutes and the 5 minutes are up.
• 12:15
  No,
• 12:15
  no,
• 12:16
  no,
• 12:16
  no,
• 12:16
  no,
• 12:16
  you'd really like me to stay,
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  but you chose 5 minutes.
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  And I'll,
• 12:22
  you can choose that again tomorrow.
• 12:25
  So the goal is small incremental shifts.
• 12:29
  Now,
• 12:30
  if she's so disregulated
• 12:32
  that even after the 5 minutes,
• 12:34
  it just ramps up again,
• 12:36
  you might end up giving new alternatives.
• 12:38
  So you will not stay in the room anymore because
• 12:41
  she's already chosen that in 5 minutes you leave.
• 12:44
  So then maybe the choices become,
• 12:46
  you can choose for me to sit outside your door,
• 12:50
  or you can choose for me to stay in the hallway
• 12:53
  for 5 minutes,
• 12:53
  which do you choose?
• 12:56
  And no notice you're no longer in the room
• 12:59
  because she already chose for 5 minutes and 5 minutes are up.
• 13:03
  So you're choosing for me to stay in the hallway and then here's what I would add in.
• 13:08
  But after this next 5 minutes,
• 13:10
  if you choose for me to be outside your door or if you choose for me to be in the hallway,
• 13:14
  when those 5 minutes are up,
• 13:16
  I'm going to my bedroom.
• 13:19
  So you can choose where you'd like me to stay for the next 5 minutes,
• 13:22
  but in 5 minutes
• 13:24
  I am going to my room.
• 13:26
  Set very clear expectations.
• 13:29
  It's not insensitive.
• 13:31
  It's boundaries.
• 13:32
  It's for your sanity's sake.
• 13:33
  You already said I'm at my most tired and my least patient.
• 13:37
  One of the things that we always ask ourselves what in this
• 13:40
  moment will most preserve the relationship or do the least harm?
• 13:45
  You don't want to be intolerant,
• 13:46
  you don't want to be impatient,
• 13:47
  you don't want to be frustrated,
• 13:49
  you don't want to be angry and feel bitter that she's keeping you from going to bed.
• 13:54
  So you have to have parameters and be really clear on expectations.
• 14:00
  It's not insensitive at all
• 14:02
  to make it known what's going to happen,
• 14:04
  and then that happens.
• 14:06
  She will get through this,
• 14:08
  just like I mentioned in a podcast a couple times ago,
• 14:10
  this too shall pass.
• 14:11
  This is not a forever issue.
• 14:14
  She has super high levels of anxiety right now and she's been conditioned
• 14:17
  that it gets worse at night and she thinks she needs you.
• 14:20
  She will learn that she doesn't reduction of anxiety,
• 14:24
  increase in coping skills,
• 14:26
  she will naturally sort this out.
• 14:28
  I don't know if you've pursued it already,
• 14:30
  but
• 14:31
  finding a child-centered play therapist would really help in this scenario
• 14:35
  because your daughter could work on this in the playroom
• 14:38
  as well as at home.
• 14:41
  The goal is that you remain adherent to the model
• 14:45
  so that she knows what to expect.
• 14:47
  And you said you're very consistent,
• 14:48
  so I think you already have that pattern established,
• 14:51
  Whitney.
• 14:52
  We want to always be really clear,
• 14:54
  clear is kind,
• 14:55
  truthful is kind.
• 14:57
  This
• 14:57
  is what's going to happen.
• 14:59
  And you may even want to set that expectation
• 15:01
  earlier in the day.
• 15:02
  You said you already do it when.
• 15:05
  You know,
• 15:05
  it's,
• 15:05
  it's calm and it's not in the moment.
• 15:09
  Do the same thing.
• 15:10
  I want to let you know that tonight
• 15:12
  the bedtime routine
• 15:14
  is going to be 15 minutes or less.
• 15:18
  Because it's my bedtime too,
• 15:19
  and I'm tired.
• 15:20
  So,
• 15:22
  regardless of what happens,
• 15:24
  15 minutes is the bedtime routine tonight.
• 15:28
  And then you move on with your day.
• 15:29
  You've set an expectation.
• 15:32
  She will learn
• 15:33
  that
• 15:34
  there are boundaries,
• 15:36
  and here's
• 15:37
  the alternative.
• 15:39
  And this is what actually often happens
• 15:42
  when a child becomes really overwhelmed and anxious,
• 15:45
  and it becomes a pattern of behavior.
• 15:48
  Everyone in the family starts to concede
• 15:51
  and tiptoe and walk around on eggshells and everything
• 15:55
  becomes about making sure that it doesn't escalate.
• 15:58
  Everything becomes about making sure that it doesn't blow up.
• 16:01
  Everyone is always like,
• 16:02
  well,
• 16:02
  we don't want this to happen,
• 16:03
  we don't want this to happen,
• 16:04
  so
• 16:05
  the whole family changes.
• 16:08
  Because of a highly anxious child.
• 16:12
  The goal is
• 16:13
  the child learns to change.
• 16:15
  The child learns to regulate,
• 16:17
  the child learns to control emotions.
• 16:20
  Reduction and anxiety will only come
• 16:23
  from being forced to learn to cope.
• 16:26
  If all we do is create an environment where someone can avoid their fear.
• 16:30
  The fears get bigger and bigger and bigger.
• 16:34
  If we create an environment where a
• 16:36
  child knows there are expectations and boundaries,
• 16:39
  and they have to confront some of those fears
• 16:41
  and conquer them,
• 16:43
  fears get better.
• 16:45
  It's not insensitive at all
• 16:47
  to provide alternatives that you're OK with and that she's OK with
• 16:50
  and still operate within boundaries.
• 16:52
  So I hope that's encouraging for you all.
• 16:54
  I know many of you have sleeping issues.
• 16:56
  I know many of you have highly anxious kids.
• 16:58
  So Whitney,
• 16:59
  thank you so much for the email.
• 17:00
  I feel like that was really helpful.
• 17:02
  If you want to reach out,
• 17:03
  please do brenna@thekidcounselor.com
• 17:06
  and
• 17:07
  otherwise,
• 17:07
  have a great week.
• 17:08
  We'll talk again soon.
• 17:09
  Bye.
• 17:10
  Thank you for listening to
• 17:11
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• 17:15
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