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Mike Williams: Hungry Alligators or Cheating Wife? Who Hid Florida Hubby in Watery Grave? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. It took fifteen years of
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: his mother begging for justice, literally standing at intersections with
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: a poster stating, my son was murdered. Please help me.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: She called state reps, she called congressmen, she called senators,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: She called everybody she could. She contacted local law enforcement.
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  Speaker 1: She begged, she pleaded, she showed up. Nobody would listen
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  Speaker 1: to her. Her son disappeared. Okay, it took the mother
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  Speaker 1: fighting all those years for a real investigation to go down.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Then her son's body was fished out of a local lake.
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  Speaker 1: It was determined to be a quote accidental really b s.
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  Speaker 1: Because of Mike Williams's mother, Sheryl, a road to justice
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  Speaker 1: was paved. Denise Williams, Mike Williams's wife, and her lover,
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  Speaker 1: Brian Winchester aka Mike Williams's best friend, murdered him in
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  Speaker 1: the last days. Wait for it, the entire horrific saga
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: unfolds on of course, a made for TV murder series. Yeah,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: she gets her own series on Hulu called Mister and
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  Speaker 1: Missus Murder. Cosh talk about glorifying murder. Okay, you know
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: what this is what really happened, don't fall for some
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  Speaker 1: glamorous actress and actor playing the part of the killers.
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  Speaker 1: They are nothing but satan and Bill's a up. This
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  Speaker 1: is what really happened Segment two.
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  Speaker 2: Alton Renu and David Barnett were among the first law
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  Speaker 2: enforcement officers to get a call about a missing duck hunter.
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  Speaker 3: What we thought had happened is that he possibly fell
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  Speaker 3: out of the boat or capsized.
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  Speaker 2: Early the next morning, there was a break. Mike's boat
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  Speaker 2: was found. On board were some decoys and his shotgun,
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  Speaker 2: but no sign of Mike himself.
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  Speaker 1: What happened? Out duck hunting husband Mike Williams goes missing
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  Speaker 1: near Tallahassee, his body believed to be in the water.
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  Speaker 1: But oh at a tangled web we weave when first
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  Speaker 1: we practiced to deceive Nancy Grace here Crime Stories, thank
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: you for being with us. Straight out to John Limley,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter John Limley, how did
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  Speaker 1: this guy, an experienced hunter, fall overboard? I mean, what
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  Speaker 1: does buddy say about how he fell overboard?
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  Speaker 4: It was a complicated story, to say the very least.
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  Speaker 4: As Denise Williams begins the tale to police on the
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  Speaker 4: morning of December sixteenth, her husband woke up early, leaving
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  Speaker 4: their house on Centennial Oak Circle well before dawn. Bowt
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  Speaker 4: in tow to go duck hunting at Lake Seminole. This
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  Speaker 4: is a large reservoir just west northwest of Tallahassee. The
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  Speaker 4: couple actually had plans to celebrate their sixth wedding anniversary
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  Speaker 4: that night in Apple at Chicola at noon.
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  Speaker 1: Denise, stop right there, John Limley, investigative reporter. Or have
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: you ever been to Appalachicola?
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  Speaker 5: I have not.
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  Speaker 1: Actually, it is some of the prettiest beach I've ever
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  Speaker 1: seen in my life. Nobody seems to know about it.
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  Speaker 1: And in Appalachicola, I'm telling you, you can get the
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  Speaker 1: best oysters in shrimp at this little place called Boss Oyster.
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  Speaker 1: And I have a very strong suspicion they may have
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  Speaker 1: been going there to celebrate. I mean, Ashley Wilcott. This
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  Speaker 1: is on the Panhandle and it is beautiful. It's really
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  Speaker 1: the salt life. Everybody has a boat, whether it's a
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  Speaker 1: little skiff or a big, beautiful expensive thing. Everybody has
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  Speaker 1: a boat, even if it's tiny, and they are out
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  Speaker 1: on the water. They are fishing. They are living the
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  Speaker 1: salt life. I'm telling you Ashley, you know about the Panhandle, right.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah, I've been and I agree with you. It's absolutely gorgeous.
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  Speaker 6: It's a whole different attitude because it is the soul life.
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  Speaker 6: They are on the boat, they're enjoying life. They're out
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  Speaker 6: in the beautiful weather, beautiful beaches, beautiful fishing.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: Let me tell you a little story, Ashley. My dad who
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  Speaker 1: you know, don't tell my husband, but I still say
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  Speaker 1: he was my soulmate. It is from a little city
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  Speaker 1: called well, it's not really a city called hay Cody. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: it's really a place hay Cody. I think that's an
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  Speaker 1: Indian name. And it's near to give you a perspective,
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  Speaker 1: it is near Mobile. Okay, it's near Sampson, which is
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: near Mobile. That's how you have to find it. So
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  Speaker 1: long story short, it's the Panhandle, Alabama, Florida Panhandle. And
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  Speaker 1: he grew up crabbing and fishing, and I remember going
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  Speaker 1: to these exact spots as a little girl, and my
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  Speaker 1: sister and I were supposed to watch the crabs not
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  Speaker 1: get out out of the net, and of course they would,
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  Speaker 1: and we'd run away from the crabs. Okay, but the
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  Speaker 1: beaches are so deserted you could get them right back in.
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  Speaker 1: That's where they were. They were all along the Panhandle,
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  Speaker 1: but they were on Lake Seminole. All right, sorry, John Lanley,
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  Speaker 1: I digress, Go ahead, back to the store.
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  Speaker 4: Absolutely well, it was at noon that same day that
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  Speaker 4: Denise calls her dad to let him know that Mike
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  Speaker 4: had not come back. That's when her father hopped in
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  Speaker 4: his car drove with Mike's best friend, Brian Winchester, to
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  Speaker 4: the areas of the lake where they knew Mike Williams
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  Speaker 4: frequently went duck hunting. They were able to find his night.
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  Speaker 1: Wait a minute, Wait a minute, the wife goes with
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  Speaker 1: the friend to look for him. It wasn't the friend
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  Speaker 1: with him when he fell in the water or.
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  Speaker 4: No, Well, this is later in the day that Brian
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  Speaker 4: Winchester goes with them with the dad where they knew
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  Speaker 4: that he went duck hutting, and that's when they found
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  Speaker 4: the nineteen ninety.
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  Speaker 1: Five You're so not answering my question. I'm asking you,
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  Speaker 1: John Limley. Did the victim in this case go with
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  Speaker 1: his longtime high school friend, Brian will Winchester duck hunting?
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  Speaker 1: And absolutely why were they? Okay, they were duck hunting
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  Speaker 1: out on a boat. Correct, So you go out into
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  Speaker 1: the water to scare the ducks up out of stumps
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  Speaker 1: that are are swampy area? Is that why they were
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  Speaker 1: out on the water shooting guns?
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  Speaker 4: Right, usually go into an area that is camouflaged by
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  Speaker 4: a lot of vegetation.
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  Speaker 1: Do you know that, John Lemley, You've never really struck
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  Speaker 1: me as a hunter or out in a swamp.
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  Speaker 4: I try to research, well.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so you don't know firsthand? No, I do not, okay, Bober,
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  Speaker 1: doctor Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist. I don't really see you
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  Speaker 1: as the type out in a uh uh no, not
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  Speaker 1: out in a boat and a swamp with a gun
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  Speaker 1: shooting at ducks. Yes, no, maybe doctor boat okay, boating
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  Speaker 1: or hunting, it's probably not me, okay, all right, So
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  Speaker 1: I'm down to Karen Smith. Karen Smith, you actually seem
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  Speaker 1: the most likely to go duck counting of this bunch.
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  Speaker 1: Does that make sense to you what they're saying?
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  Speaker 7: I have no idea. I have never duck hunted either.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, So it's on me, all right, Actually,
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  Speaker 1: I guess you know there's a lot of stumps and
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  Speaker 1: growth and trees out in the middle of swampy area.
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  Speaker 1: So I guess the ducks are hiding there and you
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  Speaker 1: scare them up and shoot them. That's my guess. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: I didn't see a gun or touch a gun until
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: I was a prosecutor, contrary to everyone's beliefs about the
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  Speaker 1: south Land. So they're out in a boat. Let me
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  Speaker 1: make it get back to you, Limbley. They're out in
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  Speaker 1: a boat. They're shooting ducks. And this is what I
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  Speaker 1: don't understand. The high school friend, I mean they're grown now,
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  Speaker 1: is out fishing with I mean shooting with him. Why
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  Speaker 1: are you telling me Limley that they go back to
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  Speaker 1: where they think he was? Doesn't he know where he was?
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  Speaker 4: Well, that's where the stories begin to get really tangled
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  Speaker 4: and confusing, because one story is being told by Denise,
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  Speaker 4: another by Brian. He comes back into the city and
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  Speaker 4: is now helping the dad look for his best friend,
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  Speaker 4: and so the timelines very clearly do not match up.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I don't see a problem so far. I don't
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  Speaker 1: even know what you're talking about, John Lemley, because you're
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  Speaker 1: saying the friend Brian Winchester, goes out with Mike. They
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  Speaker 1: go duck hunting out in Lake Seminole. He falls overboard,
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  Speaker 1: the friend comes back, and then the wife gets involved.
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  Speaker 1: I don't see the inconsistency with that. Am I missing
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  Speaker 1: something because that's all I've heard from you so far.
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  Speaker 4: Well, the story at that point was that he didn't
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  Speaker 4: know fully what happened to his friend Mike. They were
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  Speaker 4: looking for for what happened to him.
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  Speaker 1: He's sitting in the boat and then he disappeared. You
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  Speaker 1: know what, That reminds me of Ashley Willcot. That reminds
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  Speaker 1: me one of my favorite shows, Bewitched. He actually just disappear,
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  Speaker 1: But that was a TV show, Ashley. People don't just disappear.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah. See, you can tell already the story's a little flimsy.
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  Speaker 1: And he said some stinks.
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  Speaker 6: Who fell overboard and then he was gone.
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  Speaker 4: It stinks.
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  Speaker 6: That's exactly right.
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  Speaker 1: Listen to our friend at CBS forty eight hours, Mike
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  Speaker 1: Slushians are talking with Alton Ary, Me and David Arnie.
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  Speaker 3: We're done a grid search, very slow, meticulous grid search,
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  Speaker 3: back and forth over.
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  Speaker 2: The search area, and what began is a search and
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  Speaker 2: rescue soon turned into a search for a body. Cadaver
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  Speaker 2: dogs were brought in while teams scoured the murky bottom
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  Speaker 2: of Lake Seminole in a gruesome search for Mike's body
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  Speaker 2: that was high intensity and low tech.
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  Speaker 3: That was that was actually one of the poles.
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  Speaker 2: And all you do is put it in the water
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  Speaker 2: and see if you feel anything.
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  Speaker 3: If it's a log, it's kind of a thump, kind
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  Speaker 3: of a hard thump. If it would been her body,
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  Speaker 3: you hit it, it's kind of like a pillo.
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  Speaker 2: Did you feel something ever on the bottom that felt
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  Speaker 2: like a never never?
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  Speaker 7: Maybe he just a man in his family or something
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  Speaker 7: like that.
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  Speaker 3: That was the strongest scenario of everything that we had.
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  Speaker 2: It was did you believe that?
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  Speaker 5: I mean, did you think that was possible? I thought
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  Speaker 5: that was possibility.
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  Speaker 4: What did you think?
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  Speaker 8: We knew Mike could not run off. I mean, he
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  Speaker 8: loved his family and he adored his daughter, adored her.
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  Speaker 8: So Mike did not run off. This was not some
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  Speaker 8: elaborate ruse.
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  Speaker 2: Soon there was another explanation offered for why Mike's body
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  Speaker 2: could not be found, that he had been snatched by
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  Speaker 2: an alligator.
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  Speaker 1: What happened to husband and father Mike Williams He goes
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  Speaker 1: out duck hunting and never comes back. Was it an
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  Speaker 1: elaborate ruse to get away from responsibility. Was he held
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  Speaker 1: by his high school friend Brian Winchester longtime best friend
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  Speaker 1: from high school? Or is he a fatality? Was his
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  Speaker 1: body at the bottom of Lake Seminole being stored by
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  Speaker 1: an alligator dismembered Joining me Ashley Wilcott, judge lawyer. You
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  Speaker 1: can find her at Ashley Wilcott dot com. Karen Smith,
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  Speaker 1: renowned forensics expert, doctor Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist, and joining
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  Speaker 1: me right now Crime online dot Com investigative reporter John Limley.
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  Speaker 1: So John the friend Brian Winchester. I would have hooked
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  Speaker 1: him up to a polygraph pronto to figure out if
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  Speaker 1: he helped Mike Williams, you know, take a powder crap
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  Speaker 1: out on his wife and family. So the wife is
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  Speaker 1: in hysterics, Denise Williams. You can't find Mike Williams anywhere,
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  Speaker 1: not his jacket, not anything belonging to him. Brian Winchester
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  Speaker 1: is the last one with him out in the middle
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  Speaker 1: of Lake Seminole on a boat. And then you get
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  Speaker 1: the final decision by the police. Will and alligators dismembered
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  Speaker 1: him and is storing him for when he gets the
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  Speaker 1: munchies in about six months. So that's what we know, So,
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  Speaker 1: John Lumley, what happens next? Did any part of the
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  Speaker 1: body ever surface or was there a sighting of Mike Williams.
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  Speaker 4: There was no body parts or no sightings at all. However,
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  Speaker 4: within days parts of his clothing started showing up along
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  Speaker 4: the shore in different places. The initial search was handled
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  Speaker 4: in a way that they were viewing it as a
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  Speaker 4: missing hunter, and the agency handles those cases in a
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  Speaker 4: completely different way, focusing on search and rescue or recovery.
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  Speaker 4: So in their minds, they're looking for a living person.
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  Speaker 4: But when these pieces of clothing began popping up, that's
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  Speaker 4: when investigators began to think they're dealing with something else.
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  Speaker 1: Well, not everybody bought the alligator story. Take a listen
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  Speaker 1: to Telehouse Democrat reporter Jennifer Portsmouth reporting on Mike's mother.
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  Speaker 9: She never ever believed that her son was in the lake.
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  Speaker 5: Not from day one. Not from day one did she
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  Speaker 5: think of that.
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  Speaker 9: She didn't know. All she knew was that her son
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  Speaker 9: was not in that lake. She just knew it, like
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  Speaker 9: a mono, something just deep inside of her, and she
• 15:02
  Speaker 9: was absolutely committed to finding out what happened to him.
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  Speaker 10: It's never out of my head. Where is this child?
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  Speaker 10: He maybe did, but he's not in that lake. And
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  Speaker 10: if somebody did hurt my child, I want them found out.
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  Speaker 10: I want them hunt.
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  Speaker 1: Karen Smith, forensics expert. If they have the boat, what
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  Speaker 1: if anything could that prove?
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  Speaker 7: Well, it could prove a lot of different things. Nancy.
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  Speaker 7: Did the boat have water in it? Was it completely dry?
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  Speaker 7: You know these small boats they tipped, they're going to
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  Speaker 7: have water in it also. But it's clothing. You know,
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  Speaker 7: alligators at that theory pans out, they're not delicate eaters.
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  Speaker 7: Where their rips were their tears? Was the clothing indicative
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  Speaker 7: of a gator attack? Was there any other forensic evidence
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  Speaker 7: within that clothing? You know, the boat itself, was his wallet,
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  Speaker 7: there was his information? There was there other indicators. Was
• 15:55
  Speaker 7: his gun still laying there? Was his gun missing? If
• 15:57
  Speaker 7: he was duck hunting? All of these things are going
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  Speaker 7: to play into a timeline, and it's going to play
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  Speaker 7: into what really happened.
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  Speaker 1: So as one piece of clothing after the next starts
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  Speaker 1: floating up to the surface, everyone's looking for Mike Williams.
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  Speaker 1: Did he just leave town or did an alligator devour him?
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: How did he get in the water to start with
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: to John Limley, what can you tell me about his background?
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  Speaker 1: For instance, how did he meet his wife Denise?
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  Speaker 4: Well, Denise and Mike were actually high school sweethearts. It's
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  Speaker 4: that great old story that we hear so often and reality,
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: you know, most of the time it's not true. In
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  Speaker 4: this case, it is. They met at North Florida Christian
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  Speaker 4: School in Tallahassee, and most details from their early lives
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  Speaker 4: to the couple's college days at Florida are interchangeable. Both
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: were active in extracurriculars through high school. Mike was a
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: promising football player, voted best Personality. His wife, then known
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  Speaker 4: by the maiden name Denise Merrill, was a cheerleader for
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: the North Florida Eagles. Former classmates and even then current
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  Speaker 4: friends of Mike say he was very well respected, then
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: at private school, then in business, where he excelled in both.
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  Speaker 4: It wasn't unlike Mike to step into the role of
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  Speaker 4: a protective older brother and to look over younger friends
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  Speaker 4: and family members. Mike and Denise graduated in nineteen eighty eight,
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  Speaker 4: alongside classmates Brian Winchester and his future bride, Kathy Aldridge.
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  Speaker 4: The two couples remained close as they each married in
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  Speaker 4: nineteen ninety four and had children.
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  Speaker 1: So those coach couples became very best friends. They're all
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  Speaker 1: they go way way back. Now. As a matter of fact,
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  Speaker 1: William's the victim. As a matter of fact, Mike Williams
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  Speaker 1: and Brian Winchester, hey gone duck hunting that day and
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: then somehow he disappears. Everybody has to the lake together
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: with their boat to start searching, and they search in
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  Speaker 1: the dark hours and hours and hours until Winchester and
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: his dad stumble on Williams's motorized canoe and it was
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: kind of uptouching the lake shore. They found his Ford
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: Bronco about seventy five yards away, abandoned, and that's all
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: they found. But eventually, after they searched, they found at
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  Speaker 1: the very bottom of Lake Seminole, his hunting license, his jacket,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: his waiters. Investigators convinced Williams was eaten by alligators. Crime
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace, The brutal murder of a loving
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: husband and father Mike Williams is now the subject of
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: a brand new docuseries called Mister and Missus Murder. If
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: it had not been for Mike Williams' mother ryl. This
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: would never have been uncovered, and Denise Williams and Brian
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Winchester would be skipping along their merry way laughing at
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: not only dead Mike Williams, but everybody else, including the
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: justice system. This is what really happened. In the weeks
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: and months that follow nobody finds them, but then Denise
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: the wife goes broke.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: And Scott Dungee says, now that Denise was a single mom,
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: money was getting tight.
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: I was helping her.
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  Speaker 11: With some of the items that needed to be sold
• 19:56
  Speaker 11: to generate some cash until the insurance money came, and.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: There was a lot of insurance money involved. Williams had
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: three policies worth more than one point seventy five million dollars.
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  Speaker 9: While the search itself is still going on, while he
• 20:13
  Speaker 9: is still actively missing, they're still actively searching for him.
• 20:17
  Speaker 9: She is going and filing a claim against his life insurance.
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  Speaker 2: According to Florida law, since there was no proof Williams
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: had died, he would not be declared dead for five years.
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  Speaker 4: How much time did.
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: It taken this case?
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: It took six months.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: That's because Denise's attorney argued to a judge that the
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: waiters the vest and the hunting license were proof enough
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: that Williams dead. The judge agreed and issued a death certificate.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: Cause of death accidental drowning while duck hunting on Lake Seminole.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Straight out to John Limmley, investigative reporter with Crime online
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: dot Com, John Limley, the facts to me are very confusing.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: Let me understand this. Did he go out originally alone
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: on the boat or was he with the high school friend.
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: They allegedly chose December ninth as the day Winchester would
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: take Mike on a duck hunting trip, knock him overboard,
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  Speaker 4: and stage his death as a boating mishap, But the
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: morning of the trip arrived and Mike called Winchester to
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: back out. Winchester invited Mike to go on another duck
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: hunting trip, but it seems no one else in Mike's
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: family knew that he was meeting Brian. So it was
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: in the early morning hours of December sixteenth that the
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: two pals launched their boat out into Lake Seminole. When
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: they reached a landing down from where they parked their vehicles,
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: Winchester got Mike to stand up, and that's when he
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: shoves him overboard. After that, Mike takes off his jacket,
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: takes off his waiters. Was in an absolute panic, and
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: Winchester says he was driving the boat, didn't know what
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: else to do, and then ends up shooting his best friend.
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: Winchester then allegedly dragged his friend's body to the shore
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: put him in the back of his Chevrolet Suburban. He
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: then pushed Mike's boat back out into the water and
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: headed back to his house, where his wife Kathy was
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: still asleep. Kathy, of course, knows nothing about any of this,
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: and Winchester says he got undressed, got back into bed,
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: and pretended that he.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: Just woke up as usual. It's not all as it seems.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: I want you to listen to high school friend Brian Winchester.
• 22:28
  Speaker 5: We launched the boat. It was just like a hunting
• 22:30
  Speaker 5: trip was supposed to be.
• 22:33
  Speaker 11: The plan that was discussed and come up with was
• 22:38
  Speaker 11: that he was going to be wearing waiters, and leef
• 22:44
  Speaker 11: was somebody falls in the water with waiters, you're.
• 22:47
  Speaker 5: Going now, So we went out like we were going hunting.
• 23:00
  Speaker 11: Got to the area where his waiters and jacket were found.
• 23:07
  Speaker 11: I got him to stand up and I pushed.
• 23:12
  Speaker 5: Him into the water.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: You are hearing longtime high school friend Brian Winchester describing
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: breaking down crying he pushed his friend from high school
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: into the muddy waters of Lake Seminole Ashley Wilcott. I mean,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: from the very beginning his story didn't make sense to me,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: but to push somebody into the water. But you know what,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Ashley hold on. I want you to hear this.
• 23:41
  Speaker 12: He got his jacket off and his waiters off, and
• 23:52
  Speaker 12: he was in a panic.
• 23:53
  Speaker 5: Obviously, I was in a panic. I was dropping the.
• 24:02
  Speaker 13: Boat and I didn't I didn't know what to do,
• 24:16
  Speaker 13: and I ended up shooting him.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: I ended up shooting him. To ash will court judge,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: lawyer or at as she will caught dot com as
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: she will caught, it's like he didn't do it himself. Well,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: I ended up. And I've seen that so many times
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: when defendants give statements or they're you know, stupid enough
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: to take the stand where they just going the gun
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: went off, No, you pull the trigger. What happened, Ashley
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: is he tricks his friend Mike Williams into standing up
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: in the boat, okay, the little skiff. When he stands up,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: he pushes him in the guy can swim he's an athlete,
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: all right. Remember captain of the football team, Hunter Fisher.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: The works. The guy swims to a swamp, a stump
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: or something in the water, and he's not dead, he's
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: not drowning, even with the waiters on. He gets his
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: jacket off, he gets his waiters off. So what does
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Winchester do. He starts circling him in the boat. Can
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: you imagine Mike Williams clinging to a stump in the
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: middle of Lake Seminole and his best friend is circling
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: him in the water and finally gets close enough and
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: shoots him multiple times. That's what happened, Ashley.
• 25:35
  Speaker 6: That's exactly what happened, Nancy, And that's horrific.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: And think about this.
• 25:38
  Speaker 6: There's also testimony by Mike that he had to take
• 25:41
  Speaker 6: time to load his gun. So not by Mike, I
• 25:43
  Speaker 6: apologized by Brian Winchester. So Mike's in the.
• 25:46
  Speaker 14: Water, really literally hanging.
• 25:49
  Speaker 6: On to life on a tree and he has to
• 25:52
  Speaker 6: watch his quote unquote friend load his gun to circle
• 25:56
  Speaker 6: around to then shoot him.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: You know, it's to doctor Daniel Bober, forensics psychiatrist, this
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: is not a stranger on stranger attack. This is his
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: high school friend. They're grown now, they're both married with families,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: and his high school friend, his best friend for twenty years,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: shoots him dead. How does that happen?
• 26:21
  Speaker 7: You know, Nancy, I don't know.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know how he could have thought he was
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: going to get away with this.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's just a you know, there's like a lot,
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: It's like a trail of breadcrumbs.
• 26:29
  Speaker 7: Given these connections of all these people, it just seems
• 26:32
  Speaker 7: silly to me that they thought the story would be
• 26:34
  Speaker 7: plausible at.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: All, you know, when you get right down to it, though,
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: doctor Bober, I've been asked so many times about motive.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: The state, of course doesn't have to prove a motive
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: for murder, but it always boils down. Aren't money, sex,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: slash love, revenge? Anger? It's it's always one of those four.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's got to be one of those for
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: doctor Bober, agree or disagree?
• 26:58
  Speaker 5: No, I totally agree.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: I think that pretty much encompasses all the motivation.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends. At forty eight hours.
• 27:06
  Speaker 9: She wrote the governor a letter every day.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: For nine years.
• 27:10
  Speaker 8: She was absolutely possessed with finding this out.
• 27:14
  Speaker 5: What had happened to mine and your God?
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Tells me in my honor that that childish dad I
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: cannot hear us looking for crime stories with Nancy Grace,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: a brand new docuseries is handed over like a silver
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: platter after Denise Williams and her lover aka her husband's
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: best friend. Wow, some friend murder Mike all raised in
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: deeply Christian households. What went wrong? How long story short?
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: I guess what you have to do to get a
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: TV documentary is to murder your spend or something equally
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: as horrible. Mike disappeared after going on a duck hunting
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: trip Lake Seminole that's a little north of Tallahassee. When
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: he didn't return, a search ensued. His boat and car
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: were found, but not his body. Believe it or not,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: many assumed, I wonder where this rumor started that he
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: had been eaten by alligators. Right blamed the alligator, but
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: his mother Cheryl never believed it. Now a series on
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: Hulu does it glorify the killer killers? This is what
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: really happened.
• 28:50
  Speaker 7: This man was murdered, and they blamed it on alligators.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: For seventeen years, many a murderer has been blamed on
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: an alligator. But that's exactly what did not happen in
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: this case. As a matter of fact, what we learned
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: was happening is that after many many double dates together,
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: Brian Winchester falls in love with Mike Williams's wife, Denise Williams,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: and on one of their double dates, they start kissing
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: after a discussion about six Wow, what a surprise. So
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: now we see it's not an alligator wanting a snack.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: It's a love triangle, Ashley Wilcott.
• 29:33
  Speaker 14: Absolutely love triangle. Not only that, but it comes out
• 29:37
  Speaker 14: they were having an affair before they before the victim
• 29:42
  Speaker 14: was shot in the face of murder.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, they go on and they
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: married John Lemley. How long after Mike Williams is shot dead?
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: To the two Mary, it was just a year and
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: a half before they married.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: As the years dragged on, it looked like the mystery
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: of what happened to Mike Williams might never be solved.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: If Brian and Denise knew anything about Mike's disappearance, they
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: weren't talking and no one could make them. By Florida law,
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: as long as they stayed married, neither could be forced
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: to testify against the other. But behind the scenes, Denise
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: and Brian's marriage was disintegrated.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Wow, can you imagine that? So Mike Williams is gunned down,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: his widow, Denise Williams, gets that life insurance policy over
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: a million dollars and marries the high school best friend,
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: Brian Winchester. You know, are you surprised, Ashley that over
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: as time passes, the two start hating each other, the
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: high school friend and the widow who are now married
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: and joined at the hip and bound together by murder.
• 30:48
  Speaker 14: No, I'm not at all surprised. There is such a
• 30:50
  Speaker 14: concluded web as you already alluded to. Oh the tangle
• 30:54
  Speaker 14: web we weed and it was. There were multiple affairs
• 30:57
  Speaker 14: by different partners in these two marriages that led to this.
• 31:02
  Speaker 14: And Nancy, let me add this to your little food
• 31:04
  Speaker 14: for thought. There were three life insurance policies that amounted
• 31:08
  Speaker 14: to one point seventy five million dollars, and guests who
• 31:12
  Speaker 14: who wrote put together two of those policies? You got it?
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: Brian Winchester.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Okay, So John Lumley and investigative reporter Crime online dot Com.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: The two wouldn't talk. How was the case cracked?
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: Well, a story emerges of Brian actually kidnapping Denise. This
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: is such a bizarre twist to the story. Denise and
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: Brian separated in twenty twelve, reportedly due to his sex addiction.
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: She filed for divorce in twenty fifteen.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: So he's a killer and he has a sex addiction. Absolutely, okay,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: go ahead.
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: Denise tells the Leon County Sheriff's Office that on an
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: August afternoon, the day when the appraisal of their home
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: had been filed with court, she left her house to
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: drive to her at Florida State University. While she's on
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: the phone with her sister, she sees someone climb over
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: the back of her car, and it turned out to
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: be Brian. He takes her phone away begins yelling directions
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: to her. She didn't comply until he shows a gun.
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: She said later that he claimed that this was necessary
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: since she was not taking his calls and was blocking
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: his text messages.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: Well, and the whole time she knows he's already killed.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Once listen to Denise Williams in her own words, he's
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: reading and.
• 32:30
  Speaker 5: I'm just like shaking and people are going to notice that.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: Denise reported her kidnapping to the Leon County Sheriff's office.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: I was like, are you planning on you know, any
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: both of our last day or mine?
• 32:43
  Speaker 5: I'm planting on mine. And then you said I want
• 32:45
  Speaker 5: to kill my hest just said.
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: Many times I want to kill myself.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Brian Winchester was soon arrested and charged with the kidnapping
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: and aggravated assault of his wife.
• 32:55
  Speaker 8: I was just kind of agreeing with whatever he was saying,
• 32:58
  Speaker 8: and as I know that you.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Love, police quickly realized that the rift in Denise and
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: Brian's marriage presented an opportunity.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: So after she then Karen Smith goes to police saying
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: she's being kidnapped. I guess she had no idea that
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: everything she was saying was breaking the husband wife privilege.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: But how can you back up her story?
• 33:23
  Speaker 7: That's a really good question other than words at this point,
• 33:26
  Speaker 7: because they don't have forensics, they don't have the gun.
• 33:30
  Speaker 7: All they have is what Denise is telling police at
• 33:33
  Speaker 7: this point.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: So John Lumley, after she goes in on the kidnapped,
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: the alleged kidnap, how did they get the truth out
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: of her?
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: Well, the case really, as you mentioned, really cracked open
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: with this break in their bond, the marriage bond legally
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: and he began to tell investigators details as well. This
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: is during the investigation of the kidnap and in December
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: twenty seventeen, Winchester was sentenced to twenty years in prison
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: for the kidnapping. Now, no mention was made of the
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: Williams case at Brian Winchester's sentencing. However, there was some
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: sort of deal that was reached that would reduce his
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: sentence for information in the case, specifically what happened and
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: where the.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: Well hold on. Let's go to Ashley Wilcott judge and lawyer.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: Didn't he get immunity?
• 34:27
  Speaker 14: He sure did, Nancy, he did get immunity, and they took.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: Life in prison off the table for the kidnapping charge.
• 34:34
  Speaker 4: He got both.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: So how long is he's a sugarman? So in order
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: to testify against his new wife, Mike Williams widow, how
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: much time is he going to get?
• 34:44
  Speaker 14: He gets none for killing. He got immunity, so he
• 34:47
  Speaker 14: gets none for killing. Now the only caveat is they said,
• 34:51
  Speaker 14: if there's any new evidence discovered outside of your version
• 34:55
  Speaker 14: of what happened, we could prosecute.
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: On the new evidence.
• 34:58
  Speaker 14: But he told the whole shebang, the whole story, So
• 35:00
  Speaker 14: I cannot imagine that happened.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: So on twenty years, we'll probably do about ten. Yes, okay, man,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: you're not kidding. A kidnapping, a murder, a cold blooded
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: murder Denise Williams. The jury return a verdict guilty on
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: all counts. A TV series glamorizing a cold hearted killer
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Mike Williams's wife. What really happened is that his best friend,
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: who was sleeping with his wife, takes Mike on a
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: trip to Lake Seminole. They take the boat to a
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: deep part of the lake. Winchester pushes Mike in the
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: water with hopes he would drown. He didn't drown, he
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: had to kill him. The two killers stated they preferred
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: the idea of drowning because it would quote make them
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: quote feel better about ourselves if there was a chance
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: he can make it out of it. It will be
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: up to God what happens, not us. It won't be murder,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: it will be an accident. Really, you're trying to drag
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: God into this. Mike was an excellent swimmer, and he
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: removed his jacket and waiters in the water and last
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: onto a floating tree. Winchester loads his gun, drives over
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: to Mike and shoots him.
• 36:28
  Speaker 7: In the head.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's what happened. Then these two pieces of crap Mary.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: After murdering Mike, we wait as just as unfalls. Goodbye,