Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 376 - And The Redbird Sings...

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JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 376 - And The Redbird Sings... · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, May I have your attention please? The
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: show starts in five nine eight seven, six, five four
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: three two one Gothy Juice.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Tear Up, the True Down and Raishole Brother junis the Mom,
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: David Barry up, mister Woods in a pure whennessy.
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: It's riding night shell, the lights, the recrsault step, wind
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: of the basting you and the ban for your from
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: to see night saying.
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: And here we go. Oh my damn, right off the bat,
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: Joe and you got me off guard, Buddy.
• 2:13
  Speaker 5: Welcome in, folks. This is the Lone Guman Podcast with
• 2:16
  Speaker 5: Triple B and Joe B and of course Brandon.
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: Our Man.
• 2:24
  Speaker 5: Has gifted some memberships.
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: Joe Man with a wedding plan.
• 2:29
  Speaker 5: Oh now you right?
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: No, he invirolved Us both. Oh yeah, yeah yeah. He
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: gifted five Lone Gunman Podcast memberships.
• 2:41
  Speaker 5: We got Joe Facetious getting one. Your Favorite Girl nineteen
• 2:46
  Speaker 5: ninety nine got one, Clay and Tennessee got one. Uh
• 2:53
  Speaker 5: I guess that's Cowboy Man seventy seven and the Love
• 2:59
  Speaker 5: of Lovely and Gorgeous Rachel Sullivan got one as well.
• 3:03
  Speaker 5: Congratulations people, And not only that, a big fat super
• 3:09
  Speaker 5: chat from the double B. Happy New Year, sir, Thank
• 3:15
  Speaker 5: you sir. We glad to see you here. And real quick,
• 3:18
  Speaker 5: before we get started, Joe. I know we said we're
• 3:20
  Speaker 5: gonna skip. Welcome to some folks in here, but uh,
• 3:25
  Speaker 5: stick around, sir, that's all I'm gonna say.
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: We'll get there, don't go anywhere.
• 3:33
  Speaker 5: I have something you sent me, oh very nice.
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: And before we get started, Rob, do you know what
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: I have in my hans y'all?
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Uh?
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: Some weed?
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: Nope, oh, opposite Italian seasoning, Italian crush, red pepper. So
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: I brought back peppers from Italy a couple of years ago.
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: I gave him to my boy. He made a ton
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: of them, and Bro, I put some on this. I
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: use it a lot, but you have to like open
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: it and then like go use a spoon, wash your
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: hands right after your eyes or nose are gonna burn
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: if you don't wash them. And our boy at Silk City,
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: mister Jeff, has these seeds and is currently in the
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: process of growing them for our own Longe Government podcast.
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: Hot Sauce name to me, We're gonna have a six
• 4:30
  Speaker 5: strain for you guys. Gonna light a mouthal fire.
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: Bro, It's like you have to be careful, like I'm
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: literally like it's it's I have a tolerance for this.
• 4:42
  Speaker 5: I need to and I love crush red peppers and
• 4:45
  Speaker 5: ship I put it on pizza, yeah, pasta, I mean
• 4:49
  Speaker 5: you name it.
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: I'm a fan.
• 4:51
  Speaker 5: Anything I need to, so mix it in with some
• 4:55
  Speaker 5: ground beat, you know, just everything anything. Yeah, that's good news,
• 5:01
  Speaker 5: good news.
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe we can make our own Silk City crushed
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: red Joe spreading his Trey comment of the night so far.
• 5:10
  Speaker 5: Hey, Jeff Current doesn't offer like crushed red peppers, you
• 5:17
  Speaker 5: know in a little jar.
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: That is true? Look at that.
• 5:21
  Speaker 5: Yeah hevid fairies, crushed nuts, crush nut milk.
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, name is a work in progress. No, actually I
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: don't have a name unfortunately, but uh, South to West
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: got the gold medal. I'll just give him that. He
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: was first today. How are you, sir? Happy New Year
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: and happy new Year to everyone who was joining in.
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: We got a banga for you.
• 5:48
  Speaker 5: Get big show. So we're gonna skip uh introductions tonight
• 5:52
  Speaker 5: and welcoming everybody in because you know, you're all welcome
• 5:55
  Speaker 5: here anytime, and it's normally you know, the usual crowd,
• 6:02
  Speaker 5: the usual suspects, but we will be keeping an eyeball
• 6:06
  Speaker 5: in the comments section. All show, for sure. But Joe,
• 6:09
  Speaker 5: let's get into it, Bud. Why fuck around. We've got
• 6:13
  Speaker 5: a lot to talk about and let's get right into it.
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: Let's do it. So I want to talk about our
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: discovery last show, which kind of happened a little organically, right.
• 6:30
  Speaker 5: It dawned on me in situ.
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: Yes, you, I pulled up the document, you go, whoa,
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: We'll go back to the last slide. And then we
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: had an assist from Sally who pointed out that initially
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: when Lee was arrested in Dallas, he gave a conflation where.
• 6:57
  Speaker 5: She said he lived at six twenty one Marsala Street,
• 6:59
  Speaker 5: and thinking back to the addresses of Oswald and Marina,
• 7:04
  Speaker 5: and I'm like, he never lived at Marsalas Street. I
• 7:06
  Speaker 5: didn't even think about the rooming house before Beckley, right,
• 7:10
  Speaker 5: the one with lights on the bus. Yeah, that was
• 7:13
  Speaker 5: the six twenty one Marsalas Street.
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: Right with the ten twenty six North Beckley address. Well,
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: it's the ten number is part number, right.
• 7:25
  Speaker 6: That's right?
• 7:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And so this absolution of the two, this is
• 7:30
  Speaker 5: a yeah merging if you will. And my theory was
• 7:35
  Speaker 5: that he was trolling the cops at first when they
• 7:37
  Speaker 5: were first interrogating him, when they first got him back,
• 7:41
  Speaker 5: because you can see Lavelle as an investigating officer. He's
• 7:45
  Speaker 5: always said that he uh, he interrogated Oswald as soon
• 7:48
  Speaker 5: as they got him back, and it would be a
• 7:52
  Speaker 5: little later until three fifteen or so until a book
• 7:55
  Speaker 5: out and hosty shows up. Now, when book out and
• 7:58
  Speaker 5: HOSTI show up, that's probably when Oswald said she shit
• 8:05
  Speaker 5: gigs up. They know, they know, they probably know where
• 8:10
  Speaker 5: I really live, or something to that effect. And then
• 8:13
  Speaker 5: because in Fritz's notes it says it gives the edge
• 8:16
  Speaker 5: of ten twenty six North Beckley and Ohle, Right, yeah,
• 8:21
  Speaker 5: I mean he started toning them the truth after hosting
• 8:23
  Speaker 5: book House showed up, right, So very interesting.
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And of course, as one does, one consults probably
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: the foremost expert on Oswald these days, mister Larry Hancock.
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: And he gave me permission to read his bookly and
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: his thoughts, and I figured that'd be a good talking
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: point to start, because guys, we break shit every week
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: on TLG.
• 8:54
  Speaker 5: And we figured we'd let Larry know because their last book,
• 8:57
  Speaker 5: The Oswald Puzzle, kind of really is a magnifying glass
• 9:04
  Speaker 5: on trying to figure out exactly what Leov Oswald was
• 9:07
  Speaker 5: thinking when he was doing stuff and his actions, Like
• 9:12
  Speaker 5: when he h got arrested in New Orleans and he
• 9:17
  Speaker 5: asked for the FBI agent and quickly shows up and
• 9:20
  Speaker 5: he tells quickly all kinds of shit, lies, blatant lies,
• 9:25
  Speaker 5: misc misconstruations.
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: If you will, Martello too, I believe he.
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: Wasn't honest to them. Now, why would you ask for
• 9:34
  Speaker 5: the FBI and then tell him a bunch of bullshit?
• 9:38
  Speaker 5: I don't get it.
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: I don't either, man. That's that's why this case is
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: so interesting.
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: So h this is we were his you know, they
• 9:46
  Speaker 5: asked him something about his was his right wife Russian
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: or something? He said, no, no, she was born here.
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: Just the If you haven't read the Quigley Report, I
• 9:57
  Speaker 5: highly recommend you go find it in the documents and
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: give it a read, because it will give you an
• 10:02
  Speaker 5: insight of Oswald trolling the FBI. And you got to
• 10:07
  Speaker 5: ask us, so, why is he doing this? Why is
• 10:09
  Speaker 5: he doing this? And then he's arrested in Dallas and
• 10:14
  Speaker 5: he starts to do it again, yeah, real quick once
• 10:19
  Speaker 5: the FBI shows up. So yeah, about it a.
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: Very Oswalt like thing to do, right, So I sent
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: him this and he goes, that's new to me, Joe,
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: and very interesting. Here's my pure guess on my part,
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: I think Oswald did feel that he was just being
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: arrested because he had been in Russia and working on
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: the TSBD, which is literally what he said, right, they
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: aristed me to the Soviet Union. I suspect it was
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: a case of thinking it was round up the usual
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: suspects type of thing, which ironically you use that term
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: or two ago, which once again suggests to me he
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: had no idea how badly he had been set up
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  Speaker 4: and how solid the frame was with his weapon. Obviously
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: he knew the FBI knew where Marina was, right because
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: of the hosting letter that they destroyed. Talked about this
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: a couple weeks ago. But he had protected his location
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: to give him more freedom. Apparent apparently he had diverted
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: the FBI in New Orleans and that worked. In this instance.
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: He might have just been trying to buy some more
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: time by spreading confusion, he could get released and still
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: heads out on time, which is going to be a
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: nice segue into Redbird Airport. But by the time he
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: began to figure out what was going on, it was
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: not going to be that simple, and decided to play
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: it straight with a true address, just a guess from
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: trying to get inside Lee's head. Larry Handcock.
• 12:01
  Speaker 5: Hm, So you would say that the Triple B's analysis
• 12:05
  Speaker 5: was pretty much spot on with that of Larry Hancock.
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: I would say so, yes, yes, great minds think.
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  Speaker 5: Of like Hancock's up here. I'm like right here, but
• 12:14
  Speaker 5: I'm I'm slowly catching up.
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, no, I mean I I think. I mean, listen,
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  Speaker 4: you had other people six four crew being rounded up
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: to right, it might not have dawned at him immediately.
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: So very very interesting something we figured out kind of
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: by accident actually, And just want to thank Sally for
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  Speaker 4: her assist on the matter because she was the first
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  Speaker 4: one to point out that six twenty one Marsalis Marcellus
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: not North Okay Marcellus was he kind of you know,
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: combined the addresses and numbers there. So interesting stuff here, man,
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: What the hell was Oswald thinking in his head? I mean,
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: that's an impossible thing to try to figure out.
• 13:13
  Speaker 5: Like I said, I don't know. I think he was
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: in a bad I think he knew he was in
• 13:17
  Speaker 5: a bad spot. And you know, when you're first arrested
• 13:22
  Speaker 5: for things, not that I would know by personal periods
• 13:28
  Speaker 5: or anything like that, but you know, you might want
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: to try to wiggle your way out of things by lying,
• 13:32
  Speaker 5: you know what I mean, Like, yeah, you know, what's
• 13:36
  Speaker 5: your address? Uh ten twenty six North Marcellus. All right, good,
• 13:45
  Speaker 5: check that. Sorry, but that's not a real address. Try again,
• 13:49
  Speaker 5: you know everything, But let me take him a while
• 13:51
  Speaker 5: to figure out it, did you know? And at that
• 13:56
  Speaker 5: point he's, oh, Lee, but they got his wallet. They
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: might have two wallets that have a real name and
• 14:03
  Speaker 5: his alias in there. So at some point you got
• 14:07
  Speaker 5: to realize you're fucked and you got to start telling
• 14:10
  Speaker 5: the truth or just choose not to talk at all.
• 14:14
  Speaker 5: It's probably a better option, right, Like what he said
• 14:17
  Speaker 5: on the way in to the car, you figured out,
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: mister detective.
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: You're the detective, right, you're the detective.
• 14:25
  Speaker 5: You figure it out.
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: That's true. That's a good point.
• 14:29
  Speaker 5: You know, he didn't have to talk. They weren't torturing
• 14:33
  Speaker 5: him or anything as.
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: Far as we know. Yeah, I know, well, I mean
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: he did get punched in the face, even though, which
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: burrows as we discussed last week, said I did not
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: witness that, so you never know. I mean, listen, this
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: whole case is a hell of a mess and a mystery,
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: and that's why we try to kind of parse it
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: out here.
• 14:57
  Speaker 5: That's right. So before we get to Redbird Airport, which
• 15:03
  Speaker 5: is what we're going to be focusing on here tonight,
• 15:07
  Speaker 5: what did I do? Oh sorry, I wanted to read
• 15:14
  Speaker 5: you guys some highlights and whether or not this is
• 15:20
  Speaker 5: a true account, I don't know. I mean, it sounds legit,
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: but again, how much can you trust a former CIA
• 15:30
  Speaker 5: officer to tell us the truth?
• 15:33
  Speaker 7: Now?
• 15:35
  Speaker 5: Great assault, Yeah, and this is from the book Betrayal
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: by Robert D. Morrow, and it is a reconstruction of
• 15:44
  Speaker 5: certain clandestine events from the Bay of Pigs to the
• 15:47
  Speaker 5: assassination of John Kennedy. And that's what I wanted to
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: highlight here first. And I've mentioned it in the podcast
• 15:55
  Speaker 5: before when we're talking about this book about how the
• 16:01
  Speaker 5: first chapter has a really really harrowing retelling of being
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: on a David Faerry mission during the Bay of Pigs
• 16:15
  Speaker 5: to Cuba sponsored by the CIA. Of course, now that
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: you'll hear some interesting names pop up here. First, one
• 16:27
  Speaker 5: being General Charles Cabell, Deputy director of the CIA, who
• 16:33
  Speaker 5: allegedly handpicked this guy Robert D. Morrow and David Ferry
• 16:40
  Speaker 5: for a mission during the Bay of Pigs. My introduction
• 16:45
  Speaker 5: to Cable came after I had been recruited for a
• 16:47
  Speaker 5: special mission by a man who introduced himself to me
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: as Ed Kendricks. Apparently this is Cable's pseudonym.
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: Okay, Like most of.
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: The senior people in the covert arm of the company,
• 16:59
  Speaker 5: Ed used a cover name in all of a CIA operations.
• 17:02
  Speaker 5: He had supplied me with one two and the ID
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: card to my wallet, said Robert Porter, male hair, brown eyes,
• 17:09
  Speaker 5: blue height, six foot weight, one seventy six, aged twenty six,
• 17:13
  Speaker 5: employer com Cores Incorporated, So he had he had his
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: own CIA cover as well. Now Kendrick said that Cabell
• 17:25
  Speaker 5: had picked me for the mission because of my association
• 17:27
  Speaker 5: with the major Cuban exile leader, Mario Coley, Sr. And
• 17:31
  Speaker 5: because of my experience as an electronics expert in the
• 17:33
  Speaker 5: aerospace industry, including the CIA sponsored com Core firm. He
• 17:38
  Speaker 5: didn't tell me that my skills, those of an engineering
• 17:41
  Speaker 5: specialist in jamming and coding techniques, were to be employed
• 17:44
  Speaker 5: in circumstances vastly different from any that I'd ever been
• 17:47
  Speaker 5: involved with before. So let's skip ahead here a little bit.
• 17:52
  Speaker 5: Kendricks and I were joined at the briefing that day
• 17:54
  Speaker 5: by a pilot named David Ferry, who would fly the
• 17:58
  Speaker 5: mission I was to undertake. Standing in front of a
• 18:00
  Speaker 5: large wall, map Cable spoke to us in a tone
• 18:03
  Speaker 5: so matter of fact that it was almost monotonous, but
• 18:05
  Speaker 5: his message was electrifying. Here's their mission, Joe. Your destination
• 18:11
  Speaker 5: will be the Camagui Mountains, where you will be met
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: by some of your friend Mario Coley's gorillas. You will
• 18:17
  Speaker 5: fly due south from the mouth of the Caloosahatchie River
• 18:22
  Speaker 5: at an airspeed of one hundred and sixty knots for
• 18:24
  Speaker 5: fifteen minutes, then onto a heading of one hundred and
• 18:26
  Speaker 5: twenty eight degrees, at which time, if you were in
• 18:29
  Speaker 5: your proper position, you should pick up the Key West
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: beacon twenty five miles to your left at two hundred
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: and twenty two degrees. At your altitude, Key West will
• 18:36
  Speaker 5: not be visible. Maintain your one hundred and twenty eight
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: degree heading for another ten to fifteen minutes. Then you
• 18:41
  Speaker 5: should pick up the gorilla radio beacon located on the beach.
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: If you don't pick it up within eighteen minutes, scrub
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: the mission and return home. You'll be flying beneath the
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: range of Castro's radar as well as ours at Guantanamo
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: if you don't exceed in altitude of one hundred feet,
• 18:56
  Speaker 5: which one hundred feet off the ground is pretty fucking low.
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: That's pretty long. I mean, that's really flying under the
• 19:03
  Speaker 5: radar for miles and miles and miles. Like you better
• 19:06
  Speaker 5: hope you don't hit a hill or building.
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, run into some fog and you're done.
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: Yeah, let's see. So that's now, he said. Now comes
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: to clincher. It's likely no one will detect you because
• 19:22
  Speaker 5: we have arranged a sizeable diversion. Two gorilla assault forces,
• 19:25
  Speaker 5: one staged and launched from Central America and the other
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: from the Florida Keys, will be going ashore about an
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: hour before you take off. One will land approximately fifty
• 19:37
  Speaker 5: miles south of your beacon station across the island at
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: a place called Bahia Kuchinos, the Bay of Pigs by
• 19:45
  Speaker 5: Hiak Kachinos. The other will land near Guantanamo at Pinar
• 19:50
  Speaker 5: del Rio. If all goes is planned. The affairs should
• 19:53
  Speaker 5: keep the Cubans busy while you complete your mission. Pick
• 19:56
  Speaker 5: up a passenger, turn tail and get the hell out.
• 20:01
  Speaker 5: So they have a mission to complete. They are picking
• 20:04
  Speaker 5: up a passenger, so they have to land in Cuba
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: and turntail and get the hell out. Neither Ferry or
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: I said anything. He continued watching us intently to be
• 20:17
  Speaker 5: sure we were reading reading him. Once you have passed
• 20:20
  Speaker 5: over the locator beacon, it will be turned off. You
• 20:23
  Speaker 5: should then spot an arrow shaped line of smudge pots,
• 20:25
  Speaker 5: which will give you your first overhead landing. Now, smudgepots
• 20:29
  Speaker 5: are basically smoldering remains of fires in pots that are
• 20:34
  Speaker 5: undetectable by the naked eye at a ground level, but
• 20:39
  Speaker 5: from the air you can still see faintly burning embers,
• 20:44
  Speaker 5: you know, basically dim lights to you know, plot out
• 20:52
  Speaker 5: their landing strip. So they go through all this, and
• 20:58
  Speaker 5: then he says, I don't know how long the strip
• 21:02
  Speaker 5: will be. Well, we're making sure there'll be more than enough.
• 21:05
  Speaker 5: And Fairy interrupted, well, how much is enough? In general?
• 21:09
  Speaker 5: And Cabo chuckled as he said, We'll try to give
• 21:12
  Speaker 5: you eighteen hundred feet to stop. Eighteen hundred feet is all.
• 21:19
  Speaker 5: You get to land that plane in the dark, very low.
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: In Cuba, with embers lighting your flight, your runway.
• 21:37
  Speaker 5: It says, hooray. Fairy burst out sarcastically, awed by the
• 21:41
  Speaker 5: risks of the flight. I was annoyed by his nonchalance.
• 21:44
  Speaker 5: Cowboy ignored it and came to the point. The purpose
• 21:46
  Speaker 5: of your mission is twofold. For some time, Guantanamo has
• 21:50
  Speaker 5: been monitoring the unusual pulse transmissions that appear to be
• 21:54
  Speaker 5: coming from the Camagui. They are too weak to be
• 21:57
  Speaker 5: identified by Guantanamo, but we suspect there sort associated with
• 22:01
  Speaker 5: guidance systems for drone aircraft and similar devices. Your job, Robert,
• 22:06
  Speaker 5: will be to try and recording to analyse those transmit
• 22:09
  Speaker 5: analyze those transmissions and identify their precise function and hopefully
• 22:12
  Speaker 5: their source. You will also bring out one of Mario
• 22:16
  Speaker 5: Coley's principal lieutenants, Emanuel Rodriguez, who may have some additional information.
• 22:22
  Speaker 5: So that's the mission. So here we go. April seventeenth,
• 22:31
  Speaker 5: nineteen sixty one, three forty five am. David Ferry, a
• 22:36
  Speaker 5: contract employee of the CIA, was at the controls of
• 22:39
  Speaker 5: the beach. In civilian life, he was an Eastern Airlines pilot,
• 22:42
  Speaker 5: but there was no FAA prof flight plan for the
• 22:45
  Speaker 5: mission we were on. We had now been airborne for
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: about fifteen minutes, and he concentrated on recasing the gyro
• 22:52
  Speaker 5: compass before taking a one hundred and twenty eight degree heading.
• 22:55
  Speaker 5: So now they're flying for Cuba. Right, they're headed there.
• 22:59
  Speaker 5: I'm not going to read every little detail, but now
• 23:05
  Speaker 5: they're getting close. Soon as I stared out the cockpit window,
• 23:08
  Speaker 5: I began to see the phosphor and glow of the
• 23:09
  Speaker 5: surf breaking the beach about seven miles in front of us.
• 23:13
  Speaker 5: Off to our right and barely discernible on the horizon,
• 23:15
  Speaker 5: I could detect tiny flashing pin points of light, indicating
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: that our covering AsSalt force was already engaged on the ground.
• 23:24
  Speaker 5: I was grateful not to be one of those poor
• 23:25
  Speaker 5: bastards slashing through the water toward hostile guns on the
• 23:28
  Speaker 5: beach at the Bay of Pigs. So, now, without changing
• 23:33
  Speaker 5: power settings, Fairy pulled up the nose of the beach
• 23:35
  Speaker 5: and took up took us to two hundred and fifty
• 23:37
  Speaker 5: feet leveling off, we spotted slightly to the right of
• 23:40
  Speaker 5: our nose, the faint glow of flickering lights in the distance.
• 23:44
  Speaker 5: Soon we swept over a crude arrow made up of
• 23:47
  Speaker 5: about twenty smudge pots pointing approximately thirty degrees to our left.
• 23:53
  Speaker 5: As Fery executed the sharp left bank, the lights disappeared
• 23:56
  Speaker 5: beneath our wings and were promptly extinguished. As we flew inland,
• 24:00
  Speaker 5: we repeatedly spotted other groups of smudgepots. Just today, it
• 24:03
  Speaker 5: has been described by Cabal. So now they're going into land,
• 24:08
  Speaker 5: all right. Dave cut the power and we rode eight
• 24:12
  Speaker 5: hundred feet to a gentle stop. He had made it
• 24:14
  Speaker 5: seem as simple as a landing at National Airport. Within
• 24:19
  Speaker 5: seconds we were surrounded by a group of bearded men
• 24:21
  Speaker 5: in battle fatigues, all with Thompson submachine guns slung over
• 24:24
  Speaker 5: their shoulders. For a wild moment, I thought they might
• 24:27
  Speaker 5: be Castro forces. Then Ferry shouted anxiously out his window,
• 24:31
  Speaker 5: for God's sake, Pepe, keep them back till the prop stop. Man,
• 24:36
  Speaker 5: What game you go? Pepe was a short, tough looking Cuban,
• 24:40
  Speaker 5: distinguished from the others only by a pair of captain's
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: bars pinned casually to the collars of his fatigues. I
• 24:48
  Speaker 5: was to learn that Pepe Arnez, a Cuban born American citizen,
• 24:51
  Speaker 5: had held the rank of US Marine a captain during
• 24:53
  Speaker 5: the Korean War, but had left the Corps to go
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: back to his homeland when Batista was ousted. So now
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: it's time for the mission, Joe. And so they do
• 25:03
  Speaker 5: their thing. They do their mission, and here's where it
• 25:10
  Speaker 5: gets Here's where it gets good. So of course things
• 25:16
  Speaker 5: start to go wrong a little bit. Madre de Dios,
• 25:21
  Speaker 5: I think we may have been discovered. Pepe says, I
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: can see a men, a line of men, moving down
• 25:28
  Speaker 5: into the canyon, about three miles from your plane. They
• 25:30
  Speaker 5: must be government troops garrison at Puerto Mara probably heard
• 25:36
  Speaker 5: the plane and took them mountain highway toward Victoria de
• 25:38
  Speaker 5: la Tunas, hoping to spot something. And they talk about
• 25:41
  Speaker 5: how far they are away, and blah blah blah, how
• 25:43
  Speaker 5: much time they have to They say, what time is
• 25:50
  Speaker 5: sun rise around here? At six o'clock, but it will
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: be late before then. So now they're all in. Ask
• 25:58
  Speaker 5: Pepe and how it hit the bottom of the canyon
• 25:59
  Speaker 5: unless in fifteen minutes after leaving the jeep unscathed except
• 26:03
  Speaker 5: for our brush burned hands and faces. As we stopped
• 26:07
  Speaker 5: to catch our breath. I saw Ferry standing next to
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: the beach, looking at his watch. I didn't blame him
• 26:12
  Speaker 5: for being restless. It was twenty five minutes to six,
• 26:14
  Speaker 5: and the sky was beginning to brighten. As we approached
• 26:17
  Speaker 5: the plane, I saw that the truck and three soldiers
• 26:19
  Speaker 5: had disappeared, and that the stranger was waiting with Ferry.
• 26:22
  Speaker 5: Pepe said, good manually made it, and I was quickly
• 26:26
  Speaker 5: introduced to Manuel Ronriguez, one of Mario Cully's principal lieutenants.
• 26:31
  Speaker 5: Did you get the data he went for, Fairy asked,
• 26:32
  Speaker 5: I sure did. It appears the transmissions are coming from
• 26:35
  Speaker 5: very near here. Peppe says there's some type of construction
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: going on about seven miles southeast. So he said, Ferry
• 26:41
  Speaker 5: is like, all right, let's get out of here and
• 26:44
  Speaker 5: Kendricks can fill you and when we get home. So
• 26:46
  Speaker 5: Ferry hit the starter. The starboard engine kicked over almost immediately,
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: but the port engine wouldn't catch. As the starter labored, Pepe,
• 26:56
  Speaker 5: who had been standing about twenty feet away looking skyward
• 26:59
  Speaker 5: its suddenly lowered them and gestured wildly, then stretched his
• 27:02
  Speaker 5: arms straight out to emulate an airplane mother in heaven,
• 27:06
  Speaker 5: that's all we need. Fairy yelled, This engine picked one
• 27:08
  Speaker 5: hell of a time not to start. You start pumping
• 27:11
  Speaker 5: the fuel pressure pump. I'm gonna put the starboard engine
• 27:13
  Speaker 5: up to fifteen hundred revs and hope the generator will
• 27:15
  Speaker 5: juice up the starter enough to crank the living be
• 27:17
  Speaker 5: Jesus out of it. We must have filed a plug
• 27:20
  Speaker 5: with the high manifold pressure and rich mixture coming in
• 27:23
  Speaker 5: the engine ground over, and a moment later, the powerful
• 27:26
  Speaker 5: roar of a twenty five hundred horsepower of Bristol Centaurus
• 27:29
  Speaker 5: engine streaked by overhead before it turned and disappeared over
• 27:33
  Speaker 5: the rim. I could see it was one of Castro's
• 27:35
  Speaker 5: old World War Two British Sea Fury fighters. Jesus, I
• 27:39
  Speaker 5: thought with a jet we might have had a chance,
• 27:40
  Speaker 5: but it was not likely against the slower, more maneuverable
• 27:44
  Speaker 5: prop fighter. He must have seen us. I could barely
• 27:47
  Speaker 5: hear Dave over the war of the engine. It's unbelievable.
• 27:50
  Speaker 5: Why didn't it fire, Fairy yelled back. He probably saw
• 27:52
  Speaker 5: we're in trouble and he's setting us up like a
• 27:54
  Speaker 5: sitting duck. With that, the Port engine spluttered into life
• 27:58
  Speaker 5: for a few seconds and then died again. Damn, damn, damn.
• 28:02
  Speaker 5: Fairy pounded, pounded the steering wheel. We've got a gambo,
• 28:06
  Speaker 5: I said, we're pointing into the wind. Can we take
• 28:08
  Speaker 5: off with one engine? We'll have to, Fairy replied, I
• 28:11
  Speaker 5: don't want to die here now. The fighter reappeared, flying
• 28:15
  Speaker 5: down the canyon toward us as much as with much
• 28:19
  Speaker 5: reduced air speed. We could see him clearly against the
• 28:22
  Speaker 5: lightning sky, preparing to make a strafing pass. When he
• 28:26
  Speaker 5: was with two hundred yards, he dropped the fighter's nose
• 28:28
  Speaker 5: slightly and loosed a volley of three h three caliber gunfire. Terrified,
• 28:34
  Speaker 5: I could see the lattice trace along the ground in
• 28:36
  Speaker 5: tiny puffs's dust as the bullet swept up to the
• 28:38
  Speaker 5: front of the beach and suddenly seemed to stop. Miraculous,
• 28:42
  Speaker 5: I thought. My eyes followed the plane as it circled
• 28:45
  Speaker 5: off to the left and then banked sharply out of
• 28:47
  Speaker 5: the canyon. Turning back to Dave, I noticed that his
• 28:49
  Speaker 5: hand was no longer on the starter switch, but was
• 28:51
  Speaker 5: grasping his left shoulder. He was gritting his teeth and
• 28:55
  Speaker 5: swearing under his breath. One of the heavy slugs had
• 28:58
  Speaker 5: evidently ricocheted off a rock right through his open window.
• 29:02
  Speaker 5: Now I really started to panic, and as I began
• 29:04
  Speaker 5: to get out of my seat, fairy, yell, sit your
• 29:06
  Speaker 5: ass down, Porter, and do what I tell you. Start
• 29:08
  Speaker 5: cracking the engine over. That would give you enough oil
• 29:10
  Speaker 5: pressure to feather it. Unless you want to die in
• 29:13
  Speaker 5: this miserable valley. You're going to take us out of
• 29:14
  Speaker 5: here with the one engine. And with that he closed
• 29:17
  Speaker 5: his eyes and fainted. Oh Christ, I thought, I've never
• 29:20
  Speaker 5: flown one of these from the right hand seat. Then
• 29:24
  Speaker 5: instinctively I reached over and hit the starter. It half
• 29:27
  Speaker 5: sputtered into life. Quickly adjusting the mixture to medium lean,
• 29:30
  Speaker 5: I started easing to throttle up. The engine kept running
• 29:33
  Speaker 5: half heartedly, pushing hard on those toe brakes. I gave
• 29:35
  Speaker 5: her a hard right rudder and got the engines up
• 29:38
  Speaker 5: to their maximum twenty six hundred RPMs on the starboard,
• 29:41
  Speaker 5: and they said seventeen hundred on the port. I knew
• 29:44
  Speaker 5: that I must be well up over the thirty one
• 29:45
  Speaker 5: inch danger line on the starboard engine, but it was
• 29:47
  Speaker 5: the only chance we had. So now they're taking off
• 29:53
  Speaker 5: and they somehow make it out of there with fairy
• 29:58
  Speaker 5: injured as we touched down at six forty two am
• 30:02
  Speaker 5: a waiting CIA crew rush ferry to Lee Memorial Hospital
• 30:07
  Speaker 5: in nearby Fort Myers, Florida. I was told later that
• 30:09
  Speaker 5: a splinter of rock over three eights of an inch
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: in diameter had been removed from his upper left shoulder,
• 30:15
  Speaker 5: just a fraction of an inch below his neck. The
• 30:18
  Speaker 5: doctor in the er accepted the explanation that the splinter
• 30:21
  Speaker 5: had been kicked up by a passing truck along the
• 30:23
  Speaker 5: tema mile trail. Was very incapacitated. I was the one
• 30:27
  Speaker 5: who climbed to Border National Airlines jet for Washington with
• 30:30
  Speaker 5: the pulse train film taped to my belly I always had.
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: I also had, courtesy of the agents who had met us,
• 30:36
  Speaker 5: a brand new Walter PPK automatic and a spring holster
• 30:39
  Speaker 5: tucked away under my left armpit as well for the ride.
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah, again, this is from the book Betrayal. I don't know,
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: I mean, this could be a true story. It sounds
• 30:53
  Speaker 5: pretty harrowing, it's very exciting, it's very sketchy.
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: It's descriptive too, it's very I mean, you know, the
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: guy who wrote that is a pilot. That is what
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna say, I.
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: Mean, that's that's the dude. Wow, Robert D.
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: Morow.
• 31:12
  Speaker 5: But yeah, I just wanted to read that and give
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: you a harrying account of an actual bay of pigs
• 31:19
  Speaker 5: mission flewn by David Ferry, who apparently almost died. I mean, wow,
• 31:28
  Speaker 5: you know he got strapped an inch under his neck
• 31:31
  Speaker 5: and his shoulder and then fainted like a little bit
• 31:34
  Speaker 5: in the airplane and making this other guy take off
• 31:37
  Speaker 5: and fly back to Florida.
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: Well do you remember when on Members Only I was
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: telling you how when I flew Cessna's that there were
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: you know, two handles right, so like the person on
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: either side could fly the plane right, so that like
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: the instructor could take over or if I screwed up
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: type of thing, right. Yeah, So it seems like it
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: was like one of those type of prop planes, and
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: Trey just wound uped himself with the common of the night.
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: I don't think it's going to be beaten pun intended.
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: He's a good guy. He he loves tight spots.
• 32:17
  Speaker 6: He was a good guy.
• 32:18
  Speaker 5: He loves getting into tight spots.
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: Oh man, that is so interesting, you know, because some
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: of the people were going to be talking about tonight
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: that are possible candidates for the pilot that worked with
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: Wayne January at Redbird Airport repairing the plane that departed
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: on eleven, twenty two sixty three were Bay of Pigs
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: pilots as well. And we'll get there.
• 32:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's why I wanted to to bring that up
• 32:54
  Speaker 5: because it kind of ties in with everything, these small
• 32:56
  Speaker 5: prop planes, Bay of Pigs, Antiicaster, Cubans, human exiles, the
• 33:01
  Speaker 5: whole nine yards. Ye, So let's get into Redbird Airport
• 33:05
  Speaker 5: and mister Wayne. Now, before you start talking about Wayne January, Joe,
• 33:13
  Speaker 5: I was looking for a picture of the man and
• 33:18
  Speaker 5: I couldn't quite find him. Maybe I did, maybe I didn't. Anyway,
• 33:25
  Speaker 5: this is the picture I found. Now he's the right age, allegedly.
• 33:36
  Speaker 5: I mean, we don't know exactly how old Wayne January
• 33:38
  Speaker 5: was in nineteen sixty three, but this guy was born
• 33:42
  Speaker 5: in thirty seven, Okay, died in twenty twenty four, So
• 33:47
  Speaker 5: he lived a long ass life, right, little chubby fella.
• 33:51
  Speaker 5: But you know, I was reading his obituary looking for
• 33:58
  Speaker 5: any mention of of course alice or something like that.
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 34:06
  Speaker 5: The problem is, h it only mentioned Mississippi.
• 34:15
  Speaker 6: M H.
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: Too below to be exact and but you know, said
• 34:26
  Speaker 5: he was born in Chicago. It says he was a
• 34:32
  Speaker 5: gifted musician, an accomplished pianist, organist, and accordinist, but his
• 34:37
  Speaker 5: passion for music was only was matched by his skill
• 34:39
  Speaker 5: as a master mechanic, always eager to solve a problem
• 34:44
  Speaker 5: or tinker with an engine.
• 34:46
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 34:47
  Speaker 5: He was also an avid toy training enthusiast, and a
• 34:50
  Speaker 5: devoted animal lover, sharing a special bond with his beloved
• 34:53
  Speaker 5: Jack Russell.
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: Jack Russell terrier.
• 34:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so this could be him. It could not be him.
• 35:02
  Speaker 5: I don't know. Maybe he moved to Tupelow after Dallas
• 35:05
  Speaker 5: and lived out his life, you know. Yeah, but yes,
• 35:08
  Speaker 5: Nazy's a little fella. Yeah, a bundle of joy.
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, you're certainly right, sir. He did repairs at Redbird.
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: He acquires an.
• 35:21
  Speaker 5: Owner of American Aviation, right, which you know implies some
• 35:25
  Speaker 5: totally different profession. But I just thought it was interesting
• 35:28
  Speaker 5: that there's somebody with his name kind of the same profession,
• 35:34
  Speaker 5: kind of the right age, close to where he should be.
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: I respect the effort. I mean, I don't know, but
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: I tried. I think it's possible. I think it's definitely possible. Absolutely,
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: I mean, who knows, thirty seven, forty seven, fifty seven,
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: he would have been wont like twenty five ish, yeah, yeah.
• 36:00
  Speaker 5: To be an airplane mechanic, I mean I don't know. Yeah,
• 36:05
  Speaker 5: he could have had one fucking plane and then said
• 36:07
  Speaker 5: I own this company Americans my plane. Right.
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: Well, we'll get into the documents really soon, sir, all
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: the documents, and unlike some skafuzas that we talk about,
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: he actually contacted the FBI a couple of days after
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: Lee was killed, and we have the I'm going to
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: go through the whole chain of documents.
• 36:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah, just to sin just to set the scale here.
• 36:36
  Speaker 5: Redbird Airport was I guess, founded in nineteen forty four
• 36:41
  Speaker 5: by the City of Dallas, some six miles outside of
• 36:45
  Speaker 5: downtown Dallas at the time. Of course, Dallas has since
• 36:49
  Speaker 5: grown then. It's often referred to as the oak Cliffe
• 36:52
  Speaker 5: Airport now, and I believe it is now called the
• 36:55
  Speaker 5: Dallas Executive Airport. He's changed its name in two thousand
• 36:58
  Speaker 5: and two from Redbird.
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: Yes, I think I have the picture of what it
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: looked like in sixty three up right now.
• 37:06
  Speaker 5: But it only has two runways, and it still only
• 37:11
  Speaker 5: has two runways, but it's more of a like rich
• 37:15
  Speaker 5: business executive type to fly their lear jets in and
• 37:19
  Speaker 5: you hop right in their cars and ship on the
• 37:21
  Speaker 5: tarmac and not fuck around with having to go to
• 37:23
  Speaker 5: like love Field, all right, exactly Worth International.
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, you're you're not going to either fly out
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: Lee if that was the plan, or fly out the
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: assassins at Dallas Fort Worth.
• 37:39
  Speaker 5: Right, yeah, on an Eastern airline's you know plane or something. Yeah,
• 37:44
  Speaker 5: although well wasn't working there anymore than sixty three, so.
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: No, no, he needed a job. So this is a
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: good picture I found. I think it was from Larry's
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: and David's article, which we will put in the description
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: here if it's not already there. But let's go as
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: we like to. Actually, I'm going to actually let's do this.
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: I am going so I was going to lay the
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: background and as I was listening to part of Larry
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: and David's presentation on this to Deally Plaza UK about
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: three years ago, he put it perfectly. Because the research
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: was started by a researcher named Matthew Smith who will
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: befriended Wayne January, and Larry Hancock was in contact with
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: him for more than twenty years and kind of picked
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: up and took it to the next level type of thing.
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: And I was going to explain it, but I found
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: a three minute clip from this Daly Plaza UK YouTube
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: page and he can explain it much better than I
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: explain it, much better than I can. So let me
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: know if you have any issues hearing it.
• 39:21
  Speaker 7: And just to give a little backstory, Neil and I
• 39:23
  Speaker 7: talked about this a little bit at the very beginning.
• 39:27
  Speaker 7: Everyone should realize this is all due to Matthew Smith's
• 39:32
  Speaker 7: original research Rest in Peace, he is deceased, going to
• 39:38
  Speaker 7: Dallas contacting Wayne January. At first, it's interesting the reason
• 39:45
  Speaker 7: that Matthew showed up in Dallas talking to January has
• 39:50
  Speaker 7: nothing to do with this specific lead we're talking about.
• 39:53
  Speaker 7: It has to do with lead number two that we'll
• 39:56
  Speaker 7: get too later on in the presentation on record of
• 40:01
  Speaker 7: going to the FBI and talking about a visit by
• 40:06
  Speaker 7: some people trying to rent a plane, and that was
• 40:09
  Speaker 7: in the records, that's covered in you know, an FBI report,
• 40:13
  Speaker 7: and that was Matthew's stimulus to go to interview Wayne January,
• 40:18
  Speaker 7: and so they talked about that. It was only after
• 40:21
  Speaker 7: a considerable period of time a number of years that
• 40:25
  Speaker 7: January became comfortable enough to Wayne to talk to him
• 40:29
  Speaker 7: about this lead that we're getting into here. So it
• 40:32
  Speaker 7: wasn't It wasn't the starting point. And it's important to
• 40:36
  Speaker 7: remember that Matthew and Wayne got to know each other
• 40:40
  Speaker 7: over a period of years to build this confidence level
• 40:44
  Speaker 7: to even produce what we're talking about in these leads.
• 40:47
  Speaker 6: It wasn't.
• 40:49
  Speaker 7: It certainly wasn't their first meeting. It certainly was more
• 40:52
  Speaker 7: than what January had told the FBI, because part of
• 40:58
  Speaker 7: the backstory is that January thought this incident was important
• 41:05
  Speaker 7: enough and significant enough to take to the FBI. In
• 41:09
  Speaker 7: the FBI interview which Matthew obtained, you can see they
• 41:14
  Speaker 7: are very much not interested in what January has to
• 41:19
  Speaker 7: say about these visitors, even though he does identify one
• 41:24
  Speaker 7: as resembling Lee Oswald. In fact, Matthew himself told me,
• 41:30
  Speaker 7: and we worked on this over many years, that January
• 41:34
  Speaker 7: was scared off almost immediately because what the FBI agents
• 41:38
  Speaker 7: wanted to talk to him about is whether or not
• 41:41
  Speaker 7: he had been to the Carousel Club, whether he knew
• 41:44
  Speaker 7: Jack Ruby, whether he was a friend of Jack Ruby.
• 41:48
  Speaker 7: And it's quite interesting if you review the FBI reports
• 41:53
  Speaker 7: from this period of time, which within ninety days of
• 41:57
  Speaker 7: the assassination.
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: And we will go to all these FBI reports on
• 42:02
  Speaker 4: your screen in a.
• 42:04
  Speaker 6: Couple of minutes.
• 42:05
  Speaker 7: Whenever they go to interview someone in Dallas who supposedly
• 42:10
  Speaker 7: had seen Lee's Oswald going in for a job appointment,
• 42:14
  Speaker 7: an interview, you know, at the car, they immediately start
• 42:19
  Speaker 7: talking about Jack Ruby, and that pushes people away because
• 42:23
  Speaker 7: it's like they're trying to suck these people in as
• 42:27
  Speaker 7: being suspects. And that's the way January told Matthew that
• 42:32
  Speaker 7: he felt, and he just basically stopped talking to them
• 42:36
  Speaker 7: after it appeared to him they were interested in connecting
• 42:40
  Speaker 7: him to Ruby more than anything else. And it became
• 42:45
  Speaker 7: even more interesting when Wayne showed when Matthew showed Wayne
• 42:51
  Speaker 7: a copy of the FBI interview and showed him that
• 42:54
  Speaker 7: the FBI had totally misrepresented what January had said about
• 43:00
  Speaker 7: when this visit happened. They had backdated it six months
• 43:05
  Speaker 7: to spring and it had actually occurred like three days
• 43:10
  Speaker 7: before the assassination. And when he saw that, January was again,
• 43:15
  Speaker 7: you know, impressed by the fact that clearly they didn't
• 43:19
  Speaker 7: want to have to react to a lead that he
• 43:21
  Speaker 7: had given them. So I think that's that's an important
• 43:25
  Speaker 7: part of the backstory to this in terms of the
• 43:29
  Speaker 7: way Matthew got into it, the bond that he built
• 43:32
  Speaker 7: with January, and the work that he originally did that
• 43:36
  Speaker 7: we're carrying on, and that quite frankly.
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: All right, So that is the backstory. And mister Boylin
• 43:52
  Speaker 4: and mister Hancock wrote a fifty seven page paper.
• 43:58
  Speaker 5: And Joseph read it all.
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: No, I'm going to read about the first couple paragraphs
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: and we will let you read the rest of it.
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: But in the early nineteen sixties, Wayne January operated an
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: aircraft servicing and sales company at Redbird Airport in Dallas.
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: During nineteen sixty three, he was involved with a few
• 44:28
  Speaker 4: multi engine transport transport aircraft which were being sold to
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: third party company associated with the Houston Air Center. January
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: was responsible for servicing, checking and making any fixes for
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: buyers required before accepting the aircraft. The last aircraft being
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: sold was actually World War II troop transport which had
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: been heavily modified, having all the seats removed and reconfigured
• 44:54
  Speaker 4: as a cargo carrier. Two men arrived to take possession
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: of this aircraft. January only saw one of the two
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: briefly at the time. He was smart and well dressed
• 45:05
  Speaker 4: and appeared to be a military man. The second individual
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: was in charge of accepting the aircraft overseeing any required
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: corrective maintenance work. He worked with January during that week
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: and identified himself as a Cuban they were doing repairs.
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: He spoke English with a little accent, and was familiar
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: with the transport aircraft, stating that he had worked with
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: similar planes inside Cuba when an officer when an officer
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: in the Cuban Air Force. January described him as a
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: younger man his late thirties, well bolt and muscular. He
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: had short, neat brown hair, and was of medium weight
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: and height. Again descriptiveness. He told January after he had
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: come out of Cuba in opposition to the Castro regime regime,
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: he had joined the Cuban skipping a little bit. The
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: Cuban became comfortable with January after working with him for
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: several days, and spoke further about his experience. He was
• 46:03
  Speaker 4: particularly outspoken in relating that his friends had died during
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: the Bay of Pigs landing because JFK had not delivered
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: the promised air cover for them during their conversation, as
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: talk of the President coming to Dallas apparently agitated gave
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: him ajita the Cuban. He told January that JFK would
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: be killed in revenge for his Cuban's comrade's deaths, and
• 46:31
  Speaker 4: this was three days before the JFK assassination. He stated
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: that they were also going to kill RFK because he
• 46:39
  Speaker 4: had convinced his brother not to send planes to support
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: the landings at the Bay of Pigs. At the time,
• 46:45
  Speaker 4: January felt the man to be quite sincere in his remarks,
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: but assumed he was simply speaking from emotion. No more
• 46:53
  Speaker 4: was said about the subject until the early afternoon of
• 46:56
  Speaker 4: November twenty second, Whyane January talked to the Cuban for
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: only a few moments after hearing the news of the
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: President's shooting. The Cuban stated that events were happening just
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: as he said earlier. In the shock and excitement of
• 47:10
  Speaker 4: the afternoon, January did not speak to the Cuban again,
• 47:14
  Speaker 4: nor observe him aboard the aircraft or depart it. So
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: is Wayne January lying, what's going on with him? Well,
• 47:26
  Speaker 4: we have the reports, rob and on November twenty seventh,
• 47:30
  Speaker 4: nineteen sixty three, which would have been about three days
• 47:34
  Speaker 4: after Lee was shot. Twenty fourth, mister Wayne January is
• 47:39
  Speaker 4: an FBI report. American Aviation Company, Redbird Airport, Dallas, Texas
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: telephonically advised Special Agent John V. Almon he had information
• 47:51
  Speaker 4: which you believed to be a pertinence to this case,
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: and requested that he be contacted personally. So unlike someone
• 48:00
  Speaker 4: like what's the guy's name? Ed the guy in the bridge,
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: the mute ed Hoffman ed Hoffman right, that waited a
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: couple of years. We have documentary evidence that January was
• 48:19
  Speaker 4: so alarmed that he called the FBI. Okay, So, of
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: course two days later, this is now the twenty ninth
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: after he called him on the twenty seventh. The following
• 48:33
  Speaker 4: interview was conducted by special Agents Kenneth B. Jackson and
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: John V. Alman, who he called November twenty ninth. Wayne January,
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: owner American Aviation Company, Room one oh one Terminal Building,
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: Redbird Airport, advised that from February through April nineteen sixty three,
• 48:53
  Speaker 4: and this is what Larry was talking about and how
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: they kind of backdated it. He together with several friends
• 49:02
  Speaker 4: on occasion, frequented the carolcol Club in Dallas, which he
• 49:06
  Speaker 4: understands is owned by one Jack Ruby. So I think
• 49:11
  Speaker 4: they're putting this in here because I don't think he
• 49:13
  Speaker 4: knew Jack Ruby, but who knows everyone.
• 49:15
  Speaker 6: Knew Jack Ruby.
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: January later stated to Matt Smith that they backdated it.
• 49:22
  Speaker 4: That's what that was what mister Hancock was talking about.
• 49:26
  Speaker 4: January stated that during February sixty three, he received an
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: anonymous telephone call from a man who offered him the
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: sum of five thousand dollars, which is over fifty grand,
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: to fly to Laredo, Texas and back today and back
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: with no questions asked. January said that he surmised that
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: this individual plan to transport narcotics to Dallas, and for
• 49:55
  Speaker 4: this reason, he declined the offer. January further stated that
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: during March sixty three, he received a second anonymous telephone
• 50:04
  Speaker 4: call for a man who wanted to fly twelve million
• 50:11
  Speaker 4: as you could do the math worth of gold dust
• 50:14
  Speaker 4: to Mexico City gold dust, yeah, sure, where he was
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: to pick up currency and return it to Dallas. He
• 50:22
  Speaker 4: stated that this individual offered him four hundred thousand dollars,
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: which is more than four million, to make this flight,
• 50:30
  Speaker 4: which He also declined, so what does this sound like
• 50:34
  Speaker 4: to you?
• 50:36
  Speaker 5: To me, it sounds like he's making up some bullshit.
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: It sounds like McEwan's offer.
• 50:43
  Speaker 5: Well not quite. I mean you're talking millions and millions, Yeah,
• 50:50
  Speaker 5: you know.
• 50:51
  Speaker 4: Not as much, but still much above the standard rate.
• 50:57
  Speaker 5: Right, this outrageously standard rate. Right.
• 51:01
  Speaker 4: But again, this is an FBI report, so take it
• 51:05
  Speaker 4: with a grain of salt. January stated that during the
• 51:07
  Speaker 4: latter part of July sixty three, a man and woman
• 51:10
  Speaker 4: who he had never seen before contacted him at his office,
• 51:14
  Speaker 4: at which they inquired about chartering a plane for a
• 51:16
  Speaker 4: trip to Old Mexico. January stated that when he asked
• 51:20
  Speaker 4: this man questions essential to such a flight, he was
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: definitely evasive in his answers. January explained this individual did
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: not appear to know exactly where he desired to go
• 51:33
  Speaker 4: in Mexico. We'll get there, but said something about the
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: West coast. Furthermore, he did not appear to know when
• 51:43
  Speaker 4: he desired to return or exactly how many passengers could
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: be expected on the flight. Wayne January said that this man,
• 51:51
  Speaker 4: after stating that he did not wish to make the
• 51:53
  Speaker 4: flight for a couple of months, that he would consider
• 51:57
  Speaker 4: the information which January had given him and let him
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: know at a later date. He said that when the
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: couple left, he observed a third man pay attention to
• 52:10
  Speaker 4: folks who had been waiting in their automobile during the
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: entire conversation, and after observing the photograph of Lee Haoffrey
• 52:17
  Speaker 4: Oswalt on television, it now seems to him that this
• 52:21
  Speaker 4: man somewhat resembled Oswalt, although he was not definitely sure
• 52:26
  Speaker 4: in this respect. January was unable to offer any additional
• 52:31
  Speaker 4: information which might be of assistance in identifying the man
• 52:34
  Speaker 4: a woman who acquired about the flight to Mexico. He
• 52:37
  Speaker 4: said that they did not appear to him to be
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: persons of sufficient financial means to charter pretty much a
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: private jet trip at the time, a trip much as
• 52:48
  Speaker 4: the one discussed. January reiterated the fact that the man
• 52:52
  Speaker 4: accompanied by the unidentified woman who made inquiries concerning a
• 53:00
  Speaker 4: charter flight to Mexico was not lehar Vy Oswalt, and
• 53:04
  Speaker 4: said that he has no records nor any other method
• 53:09
  Speaker 4: of identifying the persons who contacted him during the latter
• 53:12
  Speaker 4: part of sixty three and granted remember January claimed when
• 53:18
  Speaker 4: he was finally shown this report that he was shocked
• 53:24
  Speaker 4: that they had changed it so much. Right they did
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: not want to deal with this accusation. January further commented
• 53:34
  Speaker 4: that he never visited the Carousel Club, when he did
• 53:36
  Speaker 4: not observe several when he did not observe several playing
• 53:42
  Speaker 4: clothes officers, and when a friend of his attempted to
• 53:45
  Speaker 4: date one of the performers, Kathy k, she informed this
• 53:49
  Speaker 4: friend that she had to go with another man, whom
• 53:52
  Speaker 4: she identified as a plane clothes officer. Interested. January concluded,
• 53:58
  Speaker 4: and again this is eleven nine, and this is not
• 54:01
  Speaker 4: long after the assassination. This is a week after. January
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: concluded with the opinion that Jack Ruby was not the
• 54:07
  Speaker 4: type of individual who would have killed or attempted to
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: kill anyone charged with the assassination of the president. He
• 54:13
  Speaker 4: said that he does not think Ruby would care that much,
• 54:16
  Speaker 4: even about his own mother. I guess he did not,
• 54:23
  Speaker 4: So I found this rob And this is from P. L.
• 54:27
  Speaker 4: Newman of the UPI United Press International. This is December
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: twenty sixth sixty four advised that the story concerning an
• 54:40
  Speaker 4: unnamed operator of the Dallas Flying Service who reported that
• 54:44
  Speaker 4: he was approached last summer by a man who looked
• 54:46
  Speaker 4: like Lee Harvey Oswalton, who inquired of concerning a chartered
• 54:49
  Speaker 4: flight to the Mexican island of Cozumo. I say that
• 54:56
  Speaker 4: right was was based upon information furnished by Wayne January.
• 55:05
  Speaker 5: All right, so.
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: Actually it says sixty four here. That's a typo because
• 55:10
  Speaker 4: it's dictated sixty three. So this is a month athlete.
• 55:13
  Speaker 4: That's assassination.
• 55:15
  Speaker 5: Right, So Wayne must have told his story to the
• 55:18
  Speaker 5: FBI and then told his story to the press.
• 55:23
  Speaker 4: Yes, And that's an.
• 55:25
  Speaker 5: Interview with a member of the press who says that
• 55:28
  Speaker 5: the information he got about this was from Wayne January,
• 55:31
  Speaker 5: which the FBI already knew. Okay, so.
• 55:36
  Speaker 4: This is not trick question, Rob, Do you know where
• 55:40
  Speaker 4: the Mexican island of Kozomel is? And I did not
• 55:44
  Speaker 4: know before I Google maps it. But what is your
• 55:48
  Speaker 4: best guess?
• 55:50
  Speaker 5: Well, west coast, west coast of what Mexico?
• 56:00
  Speaker 4: Mm? Hmm, east coast?
• 56:09
  Speaker 5: Oh, east coast.
• 56:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I have this big red bulging arrow pointed to
• 56:18
  Speaker 4: it right very close to Cuba. So you know we're
• 56:24
  Speaker 4: going to get to Lee and possibly wanted to get
• 56:29
  Speaker 4: to Cuba in a little bit. This is the far
• 56:31
  Speaker 4: out version pretty close. Of course, Dallas is above here.
• 56:38
  Speaker 4: I cropped it out too much. But this little island
• 56:46
  Speaker 4: right here he was trying to get to allegedly, I.
• 56:50
  Speaker 5: Love it, Gulf of America golf.
• 56:53
  Speaker 4: Oh they changed it on Google Maps, so like what
• 56:58
  Speaker 4: an idiot?
• 56:59
  Speaker 5: I love it.
• 57:01
  Speaker 4: All right? And you know, we do have an interview
• 57:06
  Speaker 4: of Wayne January, owner of American Aviation Company. So they
• 57:11
  Speaker 4: go back to him. Remember he contacted them on the
• 57:15
  Speaker 4: twenty seventh of November. They interviewed him on the twenty ninth, Right, yep,
• 57:23
  Speaker 4: So they go back to him because this article is
• 57:26
  Speaker 4: produced and I could not find the article because old
• 57:29
  Speaker 4: newspaper articles are extremely hard to find.
• 57:32
  Speaker 5: I tried, yes, unless you.
• 57:36
  Speaker 6: I know, I don't say.
• 57:41
  Speaker 4: Wayne January, owner Aviation American Aviation Company, blah blah blah.
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: Was it reinterviewed? So it was the second interview December
• 57:51
  Speaker 4: twenty six sixty three. Right, who approached him last summer
• 57:55
  Speaker 4: resemble Lee Harvey Oswalton who wanted to chart our flight
• 57:58
  Speaker 4: to the Mexican island of Kuzma Kuzmo as it appeared
• 58:03
  Speaker 4: in the news media. So we've talked about this before
• 58:07
  Speaker 4: something comes up in the press. There's all this internal
• 58:11
  Speaker 4: document bantering back and forth. Right, and look who it is,
• 58:18
  Speaker 4: John v Ollmen, the same guy who interviewed him the
• 58:23
  Speaker 4: month before.
• 58:24
  Speaker 5: Right, Well, that's not out of the ordinary.
• 58:27
  Speaker 4: No, no, has appeared in the news media, was inaccurate,
• 58:35
  Speaker 4: and many of the facts in the story were the
• 58:37
  Speaker 4: conclusions of the reporter who interviewed him. January reiterated the
• 58:42
  Speaker 4: fact that the man who approached him last summer regarding
• 58:47
  Speaker 4: this charter flight to Mexico was definitely not Lee Harvey Oswalt.
• 58:51
  Speaker 4: We know that we'll get there in a second, because
• 58:54
  Speaker 4: Lee Harvey Oswalt was allegedly possibly in the car. He
• 59:00
  Speaker 4: stated that when this man and his female companion were
• 59:03
  Speaker 4: leaving his office, he January noted another man who was
• 59:06
  Speaker 4: waiting outside in an automobile. He stated that this man,
• 59:10
  Speaker 4: from a distance appeared to somewhat resemble Oswalt as he
• 59:14
  Speaker 4: later appeared in local television, although he cannot be definite
• 59:20
  Speaker 4: in this respect as he never personally met Oswalt. January
• 59:24
  Speaker 4: pointed out the fact that he was viewing this man
• 59:27
  Speaker 4: from a considerable distance and was inside an automobile at
• 59:32
  Speaker 4: the time. Right, with reflections and mirrors and all that stuff.
• 59:37
  Speaker 4: So interesting. So unlike Hoffman, right, who goes years later,
• 59:44
  Speaker 4: we have.
• 59:49
  Speaker 6: Oh sorry, I went too far.
• 59:52
  Speaker 4: We have proof January reached out a couple days after
• 59:59
  Speaker 4: to the special age in charge, So not oh sorry,
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 4: what are we doing here wrong? Button?
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 5: Sorry, yeah, sorry for that, folks, We had to Yeah,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 5: we need to fix that.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: Now.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 5: My point is this, Now, of course, January is in
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 5: later years state that he fell to the FBI changed
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 5: his timing of things m.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 4: Hm, which we have heard before allegations off.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 5: Right, But again, this report from January doesn't really it's
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 5: not really inflammatory in any way. He's stating that some
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 5: guy that may have resembled Lee Harvey Oswald was sitting
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 5: in a car some distance away. I mean, that's easy
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 5: enough to write off on its own as okay, buddy,
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 5: thank you for your information. We'll be in touch type
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 5: of thing. No big deal. And you have to remember, too,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 5: these FBI reports were sent up the chain of command
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 5: to the top. Now, to be caught lying or purposely
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 5: changing these things, we'll get you in a lot of
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 5: hot water at the FBI. You have to remember, Joe,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 5: nobody they never planned on anybody from the public seeing
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 5: any of these reports true. So to insinuate, I mean
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 5: there's a lot of insinuations of the Warrant Commission going
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 5: back and changing people's testimony, right, Not so much the FBI.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 5: You know, you just have inconsistent reports when it comes
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 5: to FBI, and like DPD for instance, you know things,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 5: you have inconsistent reports, not so much claims of outright
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 5: saying well they you know, they changed this and they
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 5: changed that. I mean, I can't think of any other
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 5: instances where the FBI was accused of out blatantly changing
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 5: a report, especially if something is innocuous as this from
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 5: a couple of days before the assassination to last July.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 5: I mean, what does that matter? Really? Was the matter?
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 5: The information in there is still the same that when
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 5: they reinterviewed him, he said, well, yeah, like I said,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 5: the reporter made up. Was the other shit? I said,
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 5: I saw a guy sitting in a car way across
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 5: the parking lot. He might have looked like Lee R.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 5: Y Oswald means nothing. So ultimately, That's why I've never
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 5: really paid Wayne January story too much credence. If you will. Now,
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 5: of course, you know you have this random person Matthew Smith,
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 5: who supposedly had a twenty year relationship with Wayne January.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 5: We don't know that. We don't even know if they
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 5: knew each other. We don't even know if he interviewed
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 5: him on tape. We don't know. I don't know. Larry
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 5: might know, but those are things that I would want
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 5: to know before I put too much credence in this.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 5: He said, She said bullshit, right, especially with people to
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 5: change her story so many years later. And remember, folks,
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 5: this is where Judy Baker got her little fantasy ending
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 5: to the whole me and Lee's story that they were
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 5: gonna fly out of Redbird Airport and meet up in
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 5: Cozumel or Plya del Carmen or Acapulco, wherever the fuck
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 5: they were going to meet down there in Mexico and
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 5: live together forever in peace and love and blah blah
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 5: blah blah happily. Ever, at the fairy tale ending, this
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 5: is where that comes from. So when Judy Baker clips
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 5: clamps her hand onto something and puts it in hers
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 5: makes a part of her story. I don't know, bro, Yeah,
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 5: I don't know. I don't know.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 4: I don't either. Obviously, wasn't there just saying that.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 5: I mean, proponents are Systerio're gonna say, oh, if you
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 5: all went back and changed, well, I mean did they,
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 5: I mean they checked out a lot of shit.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 4: Joe, Yeah, they definitely did.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 5: I mean they even reinterviewed the guy. M you know,
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 5: after all this came out, and he still says last July.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 5: You know, thirty years later he can say no, I'm
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 5: pretty sure I told him November. But and the only
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 5: reason Judy Baker co ops his story is because it
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 5: says July, her and Lee left New Orleans and went
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 5: to Dallas or whatever and went to the Redbird and
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 5: talked to this guy and she's the woman in the
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 5: story and blah blah blah. I don't know who the
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 5: who the guy was.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 4: But yeah, yeah, no I I I hear you, and
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 4: and I haven't made up my mind, like always right,
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 4: and James says, Max, skepticism is always in order in
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 4: this case. Yeah, for sure, nothing, especially when it comes
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 4: to witness testimony, can be trusted. But who the hell loves?
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 5: Like I said, dude, it's a good story, but there's
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 5: not much meat on the bone at this point really,
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 5: apart from what this guy says thirty years after the fact.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 4: Well, let's see what mister Wesley Leeber has to say
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 4: about it, Sir or Wesley Leibler. Leebler, Yes, sure, let
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 4: me get back to this. I got you February twenty ninth,
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 4: nineteen sixty four. This is buried in the key Person
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 4: files and the Warrant Commission regarding possible attempt by Oswald
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 4: to arrange airplane transportation from Dallas to Mexico. I assume
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 4: that you are familiar with the items set forth at
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 4: page two eighty four of the Gimberlings Report of December
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 4: twenty eighth, nineteen sixty That must be a type of
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 4: Commission document number two five, which I just showed and read,
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 4: which indicates that mister Wayne January, owner of the American
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 4: Aviation Company at Redbird Airport, stated that two people approached
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 4: him concerning the charter of an aircraft to fly to Mexico.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 4: January stated that there was a third person in the
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 4: automobile driven by the above two, which possibly resembled Oswalt,
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 4: although he was not definitely sure in that respect. So,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 4: same kind of thing that we've been talking about, right,
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 4: but problematic enough that a labeler web is writing memos
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 4: about it.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: This is.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 4: The only article I could find on Mary Farrell. I
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 4: don't think this is the one in nineteen sixty three.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 4: I think this was written by Sylvia Mahr. Two days
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 4: before the assassination, three people spoke to Wayne January, manager
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 4: at the Redport Airport in Dallas, about renting a plane.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 4: They told him they would want to be flown to Yucatan,
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 4: pol Peninsula peninsula. On November twenty second. After the assassination,
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 4: January told the FBI that he was convinced that one
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 4: of the three persons was Oswalt. Again, that's a little
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 4: stretch there. January later stated he suspected the threesome might
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 4: want to hijack his plane and go to Cuba, and
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 4: thus decided not to rent them the plane.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 5: So and real quick. Another reason not to not to
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 5: put much faith into the fact that this was done
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 5: a couple of days before the assassination. The assassination occurred
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 5: on Friday, November twenty second. Lee Oswald was at work
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 5: every motherfucking day that week. I mean, we have nothing
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 5: stating that he wasn't. His time card said that he was.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 5: He was paid. That's so he was. So Again this
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 5: whoever was there wasn't Oswald, even if it was a
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 5: couple days before the assassination.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I'm just reading the docs,
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 4: I know, and I'm just yeah, no, I respect it.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 4: I respect it.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 5: I put this shit out there without stating the obvious
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 5: that just because and look, I'm not shitting on Larry
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 5: Hancock's research or anything like this. I think every story
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 5: should be thoroughly checked and vetted and told, but not
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 5: just the good parts. You also have to throw in
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 5: the problems with the story as well. You can't just
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 5: tell the story and leave out the parts that don't
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 5: jive with what you're saying. You know, this is this
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 5: type of shit Loane Nutters do. They're very cherry picking
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 5: in their things, and I just don't like that. This
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 5: is so cherry picked and not really checked, you know
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 5: when it comes to dates and logical things that would
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 5: basically preclude this from being Oswalt. But go ahead, okay.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 4: One of the pilots that Larry and David possibly identified
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 4: was Manny Chavez pseudonym Russell Samborda alias Miguel Gomez and
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 4: Major Gomez aka the Mexican. He was from New Mexico
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 4: was assigned to JM Wave to support Amworld effort on
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 4: October twenty ninth, nineteen sixty three. He had been at
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 4: the Miami station with David Morales on the Cuba projects
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 4: in nineteen sixty Chavez, Jake Estraline, and Morales had previously
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 4: served in Venezuela together before assignment to the first Cuba project.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 4: Estraline had been CIA's station chief in Caracas. Chavis had
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 4: trained as a pilot and flew during World War Two
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 4: with the Army Air Force if CIA officer may and
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 4: Chavez had indeed been the colonel sent to handle the
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 4: transfer of Redbird at Redbird of the Redbird Airport. Sorry,
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 4: it seems likely that the second individual involved in the
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 4: assignment would also have been working with CISJM Wave group
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 4: in nineteen fifty three. After considering all the remarks reported
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 4: to Wayne January, the following individuals appeared to be likely
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 4: candidate for I have carried out with the assignment which
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 4: many Chavas in August fifty nine to Cubano.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 5: Just a reminder, this has nothing to do with the
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 5: oswald slighting. This is something totally different that supposedly happened
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 5: at Redbird.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 4: Yes, this is background.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 4: And in August fifty nine to Cuban leaison officers attached
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 4: to the Cuban embassy in Mexico City began the process
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 4: of defecting from the Castro regime. Manuel Villa Fauna, which
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 4: I know I've heard on on Quick Hits and the
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 4: Dallas Action, the Cuban air attache to the Mexican Air Force,
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 4: expresses dissatisfaction with the Communist influence over the Castro government.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 4: CIA officer has Litt talked with Villa Fauna and a
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 4: Cuban Navy at and both men agreed to remain in
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 4: their current positions while cop cooperating with the CIA on
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 4: intelligence collections on the new Castro regime. He was assigned
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 4: the CIA crypt of l I taint one.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 5: I tell my kryptonim that's son of a bitch.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 4: He was recruited in August fifty nine, But that is
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 4: Jesus Christ for her actual counterintelligence work in Mexico City.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 5: I screwed him.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 4: Villafana recruited Cubans inside Mexico for penetration and harassment operations
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 4: against Castro Cuban Castro Revolutionary Embassy staff in Mexico City
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 4: beginning in fifty nine continuing into nineteen sixty. Blah blah, blah,
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 4: blah blah. After serving as a counterintelligence role for several months,
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 4: on April twelfth, nineteen sixty, Villa Fauna was flown to
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 4: San Antonio, Texas. He traveled by a private plane arride
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 4: arranged by l I Envoy, which of course was the
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 4: code name for the Mexico City Station surveillance group. Following
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 4: his rival in the United States, has worked with the CIA,
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 4: was managed by the Field Miami Field Office. And I'm
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 4: just jumping ahead here to Marina Oswalt's HCA report, And
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 4: of course it says, missus porter, what did he say
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 4: to you, mister McDonald, who I don't know who he is? Well,
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 4: Marina says, he asked me for my cooperator. I can't
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 4: do this the Russian accent, can you?
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 5: Well, he asked me for my cooperation to help him
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 5: hijack at plane. And the response was so that I
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 5: could not speak English, how can I force somebody or anyway?
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 5: I just laughed at the whole matter.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 4: What do he want you to do?
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 5: Mexican accent?
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 4: But sorry, that's okay. That's all same.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 5: Well, it was so ridiculous it is even embarrassing to
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 5: mention it right now. He told me he would teach
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 5: me what I'm supposed to say. Maybe hold the gun
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 5: and tell the people, you know, get your hands up, motherfuckers.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 5: This is a takeover. This is takeover hijackie. I forgot
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 5: what really I am supposed to do?
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 4: How did the discussion come about regarding hijacking the plane?
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 4: In other words, how did he approach you? And what
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 4: did he say?
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 5: I am sorry, but I do not remember the conversation
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 5: word to word right now.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 4: Did he mention any particular airline or any particular flight, No,
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 4: it was just.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 5: The general idea he was toying with.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 4: Did he mention where he wanted to hide the plane
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 4: to what country?
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 5: No, pardon me, to Cuba.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 4: Did he mention using his rifle and his handgun?
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 5: Yes, he did, modern day Bonnie and Clyde. What did
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 5: he say, Well, with the gun, he can persuade the
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 5: pilot to fly the way he would tell him to.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 5: What did he want you to do, just to hold
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 5: another gun or something like that?
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 4: You know, what did you say in response to all
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 4: of this?
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 5: First of all, I refused. I tried to make him
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 5: see how it would look very funny to people here.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 5: I was pregnant with the child. You know, it doesn't
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 5: look very scary.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 4: This happened after the Walker incident. You were in New Orleans.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 5: It was in New Orleans.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 4: Yes, sir, did you tell any one of his suggestion
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 4: to hijack a plane?
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 6: I think that's it?
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 4: Then no, you did not tell any relatives or friends
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 4: or James from Wharton?
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 6: No?
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 4: No, no, no. Do you think he was serious? Do
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 4: you think he was going to carry out such a plan.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 5: I really cannot say. I don't know.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 4: When did you first learn of his plan trip to
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 4: Mexico City? When did you first know about that? This
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 4: is an interesting question.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 5: Shortly before I left for Dallas with Ruthpaine, how did
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 5: you learn of this? He told me about his plans
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 5: to go to Mexico City and visit the Cuban embassy
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 5: over there.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 4: Hmm, that's it. Well, like always, I throw my hands up, Uh,
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 4: not planned. But Rob is always on the point with
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 4: the accent. But I mean, I listen, I I'm going
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 4: to say this. I think Lee did want to go
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 4: to Cuba. The wedding ring thing. Of course, Marina's story
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 4: of hijacking the jet the McEwan incident. His socialist tendency
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 4: is going back to early teenage years. You know, you
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 4: have corroboration for marine buddies like Nelson Delgado. I think
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 4: back in what fifty eight, fifty nine, fifty seven, maybe
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 4: when he came back on leave and Carlos said, did
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 4: you or Lisa, did you go fight in this ra
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 4: with Castro? It lines up a little bit. I think
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 4: the plotters, whoever they were, recognized this and took advantage
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 4: of the useful idiot, which was Lee first being tested
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 4: out by Carlos Kroga going over to his place posing
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 4: as a procast or supporter. I don't know, man, I
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 4: think Lee might have fucked around and found out. I
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 4: don't know.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 5: That's you know, two To imply that this scenario is
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 5: real at Redbird Airport, you're you're also implying that Lee
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 5: had some kind of knowledge or foreknowledge about the assassination
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 5: taking place.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 4: Not necessarily well.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 6: You are.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 5: If you're trying to say that this happened two d
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 5: a couple of days before the assassination, you're you're implying
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 5: what he's implying there if if that's what he saying,
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 5: that Lee is kind of orchestrating his own escape from
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 5: Dallas a much likelier scenario. Because if that's what you're saying,
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 5: then that Oswald knew what was going to happen and
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 5: knew that he needed to get the hell out of there.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 5: I mean, that's and that's implying that you're in the
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 5: know of what's going to happen and you're also going
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 5: to get away. I mean, to pull this off is
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 5: one thing, but to get away unscathed and escape the
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 5: country as a whole other thing.
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 4: Right, But I'm not saying that Lee knew what was
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 4: going to happen.
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 5: No, you're not. But Wayne January is that's what he's
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 5: insinuating in his statement or else his story means nothing.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 5: If it wasn't Oswald, then it's a nothing burger, right
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 5: I do. But if.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 4: Lee was really convinced that he was gonna get to Cuba,
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 4: and if his Mexico City attempt was actually real, and
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 4: I'm not saying it was, I'm just I'm playing devil's
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 4: advocate here, all he would need to see was the
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 4: plotters and the possible woman who I know you're gonna
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 4: talk about next had the intention of getting him there?
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but again, why I go to Mexico? If Oswald
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 5: had just been in Mexico and been denied a Cuban
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 5: visa and being told by the Russians that they had
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 5: to go through the proper channels to get him his
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 5: visa and then it would take a while, why then
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 5: are you gonna fly back to Mexico when you have
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 5: no idea or not whether or not your visa is
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 5: gonna be approved. Why wouldn't you just charter a flight
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 5: to Cuba, pay some skufuza like David Ferry to fly
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 5: to Cuban drop you off.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I think he had a couple of
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 4: attempts to get to Cuba. I don't know. I really
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 4: don't know the answer, man, I'm just kind.
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 5: Of you start tearing into the story a little bit,
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 5: the logical part of it starts falling away from me. Okay,
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 5: that's fair enough, That's all I'm saying.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 4: No, it's a fair fair point.
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 5: I mean, these are things that I would have to
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 5: be convinced of before I buy this story, Like things
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 5: like I told you before, When is a proof Smith
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 5: talk to January. Is he on tape saying this? Do
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 5: we have a transcript of it? I mean, anything something
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 5: other than Larry's saying why I talked to this guy?
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 5: And he said he talked to this guy for twenty
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 5: years and this is what he said. I mean, it's information,
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 5: it's a story. It's interesting, but really is it true?
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 5: Does it mean anything? Is there anything there?
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah? I mean we go through stories every week that
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 4: are interesting, right.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 5: I mean, for all we know Wayne January because I
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 5: couldn't find the real one. He could have died in
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 5: nineteen seventy one, you know, and whoever Matthew Smith is
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 5: could have figured that out and said, well, I'm gonna
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 5: break this case wide oversay. I found this guy and
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 5: talking to him for twenty years. This is what he
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 5: told me. He is changed his whole story and now
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 5: he says this.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 4: Well, just to be clear, Larry and Matt Smith had
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 4: been talking for twenty years. I believe Matt Smith was
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 4: the one that had the direct contact with January. Just
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 4: too not that that means anything towards your point, but.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 5: It doesn't. It's a telephone game of telephone and is
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 5: there any hard like is this guy on tape. Anybody
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 5: you can say, anybody say to something. Yeah, I'm just
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 5: saying you.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 4: Can go to the Oswalt interrogations. Where's the tape on that,
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 4: you know what I mean? There was just we're just
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 4: playing guessing games here, and.
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 5: We have contemporaneous notes taken, and you're you're you're taking
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 5: the you're taking the veil of conspiracy to the extreme.
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 5: You know, when you're saying that that Captain Fritz and
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 5: Jim Lavelle and these and all these guys from the
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 5: FBI and Harry Holmes and we're all in on this
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 5: and Oswald really said something else and they just took
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 5: all these fake notes down.
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 4: That's not my position.
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 5: That's what you're playing. No, you're comparing that to this
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 5: something that we know happened. We know Oswald was arrested,
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 5: we know he was interrogated, we have the documentation for it,
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 5: we have the contemporaneous notes from the people that were there.
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 5: This is something totally different.
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 4: Joe, Okay, do you think I understand your point? Do
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 4: you think Oswalt actually wanted to get to Cuba, considering
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 4: he tried communism in Russia, was obviously disillusioned with their
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 4: version of communism. We know he was interested in Cuba
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 4: since late nineteen fifties. Do you think he wanted to
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 4: go to Cuba? And I'm not trying to like, no,
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 4: we're playing Devil's autocate, you know what I mean. It's okay,
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 4: this is a great conversation.
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 5: Not initially. You got to remember the letters that we
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 5: have that he was writing to the Russian embassy all
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 5: through nineteen sixty three, him and Marina both. We're trying
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 5: to get them back to Russia, not Cuba. Russia. Now
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 5: this all changed after Oswald supposedly goes to Mexico and
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 5: gets denied a visa because you know, you can't just fly,
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 5: apparently from Mexico to.
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 4: Russia right by way of Cuba.
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 5: You have to go via another communist country apparently. I
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 5: don't know. I don't know the rules. I mean, I
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 5: know you could, you couldn't for many years and I
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 5: don't know when the embargo started, but you know you
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 5: couldn't fly from LaGuardia to Havana direct.
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 4: You could not. I don't think you still can.
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 5: You know, you have to go somewhere else first and
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 5: get a visa and then go. I mean, I don't
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 5: know how all this works, but I think that after
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 5: that incident in Mexico City, whatever it was, right or
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 5: even if it even if it wasn't, you know, they
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 5: weren't really getting anywhere writing the Russian embassy in Washington,
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 5: d C. I don't know what he thought the difference
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 5: was going to be going to Mexico, which was further
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 5: away than the embassy in Washington for him, I think,
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 5: or was it closer?
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 4: Probably was closer.
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 5: But Google, Uh, Dallas, Texas to Mexico City.
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 6: Okay, one second, let's see.
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 4: To Mexico City.
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's where he went.
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 4: No, I know it is nine hundred and thirty miles
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 4: for the typical.
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 5: And how long of a drive is that?
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 4: The driving distance this is according to rock driving distance
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 4: along common road routes example Laredo and Monterey is approximately
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 4: one thousand, one hundred twenty five miles with an estimated
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 4: driving time of around eighteen nineteen hours without stops.
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 5: Right, so now is nineteen sixty three Mexico on fucking
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 5: shitty dirt roads Pottolefield, you know.
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 4: Over over a day at least right now to.
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 5: Dallas, Texas to Washington, DC.
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 4: It's approximately eleven hundred and eighty four miles with a
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 4: drive time of approximately one three three three miles estimated
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 4: arriving time around nineteen twenty hours.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 5: So they're basically the exact same from each other.
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they're very close, with the.
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 5: United States having a much better road infrastructure at the
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 5: time than Mexico.
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, so they're about the same. Okay, again, I
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 5: don't know what this all means. Why Oswald would choose
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 5: to go to Mexico City to the embassies instead of
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 5: going to Washington, apart from the fact that he thought
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 5: that he could get an immediate visa via the Cuban
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 5: embassy to Cuba and then ultimately to Russia, whereas if
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 5: he goes to DC, you still can't fly out of
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 5: the United States to Cuba or Russia.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 4: But I mean, I showed you that document of the guy.
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 4: I said he was trying to get to that island
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 4: that's right next to Cuba. So I mean, I don't know,
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 4: I really don't know.
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 5: I'm just whose city is in the southern part of
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 5: Mexico in the eastern part, you know.
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but the flight distance wouldn't matter. What is relevant
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 4: to me?
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 5: Visa first right.
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 4: But the relevant part to me is that this guy
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 4: tried to say he wanted to go to the island
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 4: that was super close to Cuba. I showed you that.
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 4: That's all I'm saying, Like, I don't know if he's
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 4: making it up. I have no idea what that guy.
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 5: Is on a shitty boat and going to Cuba from there,
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 4: I don't know either. I'm just listening that.
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 5: He would be entering Cuba illegally without a visa. So
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 5: what are your shots? I mean, you might get there,
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 5: but Casher would be like, maybe he was playing this
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 5: a lot of pines, asshole.
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, he would definitely have been in the Aisle Pines.
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 4: I don't know, I mean less. I'm just like reading
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 4: the documents and and some analysis, and as always, we
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 4: kind of throw our hands up and leave it to
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 4: our good audience to kind of make their own.
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah, we're not here to promote a theory or be
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 5: an echo chamber for anybody. No, this is this is
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 5: why I'm asking these.
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 4: Questions a little skeptical. I listen, I I.
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 5: On this show. We're not having Larry do it. You know,
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 5: this is something that's been around for twelve years or
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 5: more or more much more. Yeah, I mean this is
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 5: old research, but it's a theory. It's been thrown out
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 5: there and we figured we'd look into it. And what
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 5: other than you know, I think I've read Larry's paper
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 5: many many moons ago, you know, but nothing really stood
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 5: out to me as being, oh my god, this is
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 5: this is the answer, you know type of thing.
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 4: No, I I I one here. You just going through
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 4: a couple of comments, and I'm going to hand it
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 4: back over to you, sir. Uh, Tiny says I don't
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 4: know what you're talking about, but I made it neither,
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 4: do we?
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 5: Come on? Come on, Tiny, I mean, look at.
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 4: There is a red bird a cardinal.
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 5: Look. I put red bird into Google and I hit
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 5: images and nothing but cardinals fucking showed up. So do
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 5: you know the good bird?
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 4: Do you know the the town or the high school
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 4: logo of my town is Greenwich Cardinals?
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 5: Yeah? My state bird is a cardinal.
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 4: I did not know that.
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 5: I see many of them in my backyard all the time.
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 4: Do you feed them? Do you have a bird fear? No?
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 4: I don't, just a burn pit for your documents.
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah? Do you have a bird bath in my backyard
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 5: for them to take a bathroom, but I do not
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 5: feed them.
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 4: Well, Timothy Ryan has a red bird occasionally too, and
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 4: you got a nice tremendous Mexican accent, even though it
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 4: was supposed to.
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 5: Be a Russian, broken Russian, come on all the same. Yeah,
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 5: it does sound like this. You have sometime Marina sounds
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 5: like this.
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean listen, like we we really everything in
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 4: this think me, we go America. Everything in this case
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 4: is uh.
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 6: Uh, what is it?
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 4: Enigma wrapped in a riddle? Blah blah blah whatever. The
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 4: not enough gas to get all the way to Cuba.
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 4: You can't get the Cuba well, I mean only by
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 4: boat from from Cosm Cosmo.
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 8: Oh, let's see anything else. Yeah, here we are down
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 8: the rabbit hole again with no flashlight. That's not inaccurate
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 8: to me.
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 5: And again a better Eskate plan for Lee Harvey Oswald
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 5: given what we know is if Oswald can make it
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 5: away from this thing, un skate, he goes back to
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 5: New Orleans, meets David Ferry, and David Ferry flies into Cuba.
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 4: Boom via shreport.
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 5: No via.
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, the Vermilion Way to Cuba. Hey, opto the Vermilion
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 4: flycatcher is a redbird too interesting? All right, that's all
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 4: I have, sir. I'm gonna hand it off to you.
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 4: But I just thought i'd highlight some of that shit. Sorry,
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 4: I took.
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 5: So long, that's all right. So long you did.
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 4: You did the same thing last week.
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 5: You were like researcher found a document that Joe did
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 5: not find it on mean in January, oh well, twenty
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 5: three and much to the point that I was making
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 5: earlier Joe, that these reports go up the chain of command.
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 5: All right, this one and that I'm holding in my
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 5: hand from twelve.
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 4: The FBI chain of command. Yeah, Tulsa Tulson no.
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 5: Has dated twelve, twenty three, sixty three, went up from Brannigan.
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 5: Uh well, I went up to mister Stokes, mister Brannigan,
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 5: mister Sullivan, and then to mister Belmont.
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 4: Okay, from who number three.
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 5: And the high and then you got Tulsen and and Hoova.
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 4: I'm saying, what was it that Alton guy? No, Okay,
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 4: that's what I was asking.
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 5: This is a memo from Brannigan to Sullivan, got it.
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 5: But included are the person below Brannigan and the person
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 5: above Sullivan, who is Belmont and Stokes and it's basically
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 5: a memorandum report. And this is what they're saying. So
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 5: instead of sending sending up you know, every report done
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 5: by what was the guy's name again? Uh, Alton Ryan
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 5: or Avion or Alton Alton let.
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 4: Me let me chuck John V. Almont A L M
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 4: O N.
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah. So instead of setting up a bunch of reports
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 5: from Almond, I guess his boss is sending up a
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 5: summarized memorandum of this investigation up the chain all the
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 5: way to Belmont number three. On eleven, twenty seven, sixty three,
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 5: Dallas was advised by Wayne January of the American Aviation
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 5: Company that, in late July sixty three, a man and
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 5: woman he had never seen before inquired about chartering a
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 5: plane to Old Mexico. The male was evasive and did
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 5: not appear to know exactly where he desired to go.
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 5: He said it would be a couple months before he
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 5: might make the flight. Upon the couple's leaving, January observed
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 5: that a third man was waiting in the car. He
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 5: believes that the man in the car somewhat resembled Oswald.
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 5: He is not definite in this respect. It appears unlikely
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 5: that the third party could be Oswald because he was
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 5: in New Orleans during all of July nineteen sixty three.
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 5: So see, even they are poo poohing the Wayne January
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 5: story at this point because they know Oswald was in
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 5: New Orleans all during July sixty three at least that
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 5: they know about. And he was definitely employed at the
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 5: Riley Coffee Company up to a certain point I think
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 5: July nineteenth.
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, midje.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 6: Yeah, something like that.
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 5: And then also in July Oswald went to that college,
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 5: you know, with part of his family and to give
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 5: that speech to the Juguar College.
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, just what college college out?
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm sure he went to the unemployment office or whatever.
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 5: I'm just saying.
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 5: The United Press on December twentieth of sixty three carried
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 5: a report than an unnamed operator of a flying service
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 5: in Dallas reported he was approached last summer by a
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 5: man who looked like Oswald. This man wanted to fly
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 5: out of Mexican island of Cozomeo, located off the east
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 5: coast of the Mexican Peninsula of Yucatan. The up release
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 5: said that the man appeared to be Oswald. Wanted to
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 5: charter a plane to fly five passengers. The unnamed airline
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 5: reporter our operator repeatedly reportedly got the impression that the
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 5: man wanted to travel in September or October. The flight
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 5: never came about. While the up release differs from the
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 5: information reported by Dallas, it is likely that the up
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 5: source is January. Dallas does not contemplate further investigation concerning
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 5: this information they reported receiving from January. So again they
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 5: didn't think I FBI didn't think there was anything to this.
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 5: I don't think there's anything to this. It may be
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 5: a nothing slider maybe I don't know. Now, before we
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 5: get into another incident, it supposedly happened at Redbird Airport
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 5: in sixty three. Again, you have to imagine if this
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 5: supposed interaction with somebody who looked like Oswald happened in July.
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 5: They don't even know the President's coming to Dallas at
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 5: this point. Nobody does, you know, Nobody, maybe an insider
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 5: or somebody does, but it's not out in the public.
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 5: So they couldn't obviously know without some serious inside information
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 5: that the President planned on making a trip to Dallas
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 5: in November. I agree, not in July so, and again
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 5: you're he's putting a date on here, you know, sometime
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 5: in September October, you know, wanting to go to Mexico. Well,
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 5: that does line up with Oswald's trip to Mexico for sure.
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 5: But again, he wasn't in Dallas at this time. He
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 5: was in New Orleans. And if you're in New Orleans
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 5: and you know pilots of small aircraft that could take
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 5: you to Mexico, you'd probably call Dave Ferry from the
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 5: CAP Squadron, or he'd have some kind of connections that
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 5: he could run down to get this done instead of
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 5: somehow making his way all the way to Dallas to
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 5: talk to some skufuza at redburd Airport about it.
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 4: Sally asked, wasn't it announced in April. It might have been,
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 4: but I don't think the exact dates were. You know,
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 4: it might have been like the Southern leg type of thing,
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 4: like it's gonna come to Texas.
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 5: I think in April, like higher ups, like the people
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 5: immediately surrounding them, right, And I think it was announced
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 5: in September October. And then of course the final plans
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 5: were you know, laid out in the paper of the
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 5: motorcator route and everything a couple of days before the assassination.
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 5: But m hm, but before we got here, I came
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 5: across an interview with somebody who has a story, Joe,
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 5: and I will preface this by saying it is a story,
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 5: m but it is also a story from a guy,
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 5: a real guy, who went on tape and was interviewed
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 5: by a news organization, namely a local news organization in
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 5: New Orleans. And it goes a little something like.
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 4: This, when when what when was this interview?
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 5: Oh, that's a good question. Sorry, November twelve, twenty nineteen, Okay,
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 5: by the Conroe News Organization, And I guess it was
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 5: one hundred and twenty five years of their news service
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 5: being in business, So you know it's a legit news organization, okay.
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 5: Jesse Berwick now ninety one, was an air traffic controller
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 5: at the New Orleans Lake Front Airport at the time
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 5: of JFK's assassination. Meaning Hammond, no New Orleans lake Front.
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 4: Airport, Okay, different than Hamond, got it?
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Hammond is another city in Louisiana, got it? Where
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 5: Clay Shaw's from, Where David Ferry slept over the College
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 5: of Boys.
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, where he flew that the manifest that we talked
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 4: about during the general Walker.
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 5: Yes, yes, Now, the the the Lakefront Airport also known
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 5: as that I guess I think it was known as
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 5: the Moissant Airport, was where he used to do his
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 5: CAAP activities, his squadron meetings. So this guy obviously knew
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 5: Dave Ferry. But this is what he says. He and
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 5: his supervisor and other people working at the airport were
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 5: quote connecting the dots and came to some conclusions that
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 5: he wants to share with all those interested in the
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 5: events on that faithful day in Dallas. Quote Lee Harvey
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 5: Oswald was not supposed to get caught or killed in
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 5: Dallas after he shot President Kennedy. According to the scenario
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 5: that Berwick and his friends at New Orleans Airport had
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 5: figured out, we thought a pilot we knew was waiting
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 5: for Oswald to get away to New Orleans so he
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 5: could be flown to Cuba. Berwick remembered, quote, there was
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 5: an airport boom that used to hang around our lounge
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 5: in the air traffic Control center at the New Orleans Airport.
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 5: He was a freelance pilot and a friendly type of guy.
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 5: Sound like anybody you know. You had Joe, Yeah, good guy,
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 5: good guy, even if you never had any money, and
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 5: always bummed cigarettes and coffee from us when we were
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 5: on brakes, said Berwick.
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 4: Those are the worst type of people that just bumped
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 4: SIGs from you, me a coffee.
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 5: And let me get a cigarette.
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 6: Roan.
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 5: The only name we knew him by was Butler. Everybody
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 5: knew him and liked him. He even slept on a
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 5: couch in the lounge, and when we were on an
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 5: early shift at seven am, he would be waking up
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 5: and have a cup of coffee with us. The New
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 5: Orleans Air Traffic Control Center had widespread radar and was
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 5: responsible for any air traffic in the northern Gulf of
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 5: Mexico before Houston International Airport was built and everyone moved
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 5: to the area. Customs and Border Patrol had offices in
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 5: the basement of their building and used their radar conduct
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 5: their business as well. Excuse me, they were especially interested
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 5: in flights from the United States to Cuba after the
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 5: embargo took effect. Okay, a couple of months before the
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 5: JFK assassination, we noticed that Butler again. A couple months
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 5: before the assassination, we noticed that Butler.
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 4: This is Ed Butler, right, the inca.
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 5: Guy, No, this is just a guy said his name
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 5: was Butler.
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 4: Oh this is the Butler. Bum Butler, Yeah, Bum Butler.
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 5: Butler didn't show up, and we wondered where he was
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 5: remembered Burt. Then we read a big headline in New
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 5: Orleans newspaper with the headline that a pilot had been
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 5: caught selling guns in Cuba and was in prison. The
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 5: picture in the paper was our guy. We knew his Butler,
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 5: so we knew where he was. Just a few days
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 5: before the assassination. A few days before the assassination, Butler
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 5: shows up at the air traffic controller's lounge again, only
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 5: now he had lots of money and was wearing a
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 5: real flight jumpsuit like the Russian aviators wore, instead of
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 5: his usual jeans and plaid shirts. He said that Castro
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 5: had led him out of prison and allowed him to
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 5: come home to New Orleans. The air traffic control guys
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 5: thought that it was strange, but didn't really question Butler
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 5: about his streak of luck. Of course, no one knew
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 5: what the future hell, but apparently the event had been
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 5: planned in advance. We knew he was an awfully good
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 5: pilot and were not surprised that he came back from Cuba.
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 5: He knew enough about the Golf of Mexico now Golf
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 5: of America in our radar system that he could quote
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 5: fly under the radar if he wanted to avoid detection,
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 5: and we were actually surprised that he got caught, Berwick said.
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 5: Berwick and his supervisor were shocked just like everyone else
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 5: when we heard the news that President Kennedy had been
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 5: shot and later died at Dallas Hospital. When Oswald was
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 5: shot and killed by Jack Ruby, it was even more shocking.
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 5: When Oswald was shot, Butler flew away and never returned,
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 5: and Berwick and his supervisor started connecting the dots about
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 5: the connection between Butler and Oswald, especially the timing. We
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 5: called the FBI with our conclusion that mister Butler had
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 5: been hired by the Castro government and while he was
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 5: in prison, was hired to fly back to New Orleans
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 5: and meet Oswald and fly him back to Havana as
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 5: part of a plea bargain. Berwick stated, the FBI as
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 5: just listened to our theory and we gave them our
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 5: phone numbers and they never called us back. But I've
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 5: always thought this was the plan to get Oswald out
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 5: of the US and into a friendly country. Hearing the
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 5: recent news about Oswald going to the Russian embassy in
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 5: Mexico City and flying to Cuba made me think about
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 5: this strange event. It was widely known that Oswald was
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 5: a Communist, so it wasn't a stretch that he wouldn't
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 5: want to live in the US much longer. The Cubans
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 5: hated the Kennedys, especially after the Bay of Pigs, and
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 5: wanted revenge.
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 4: That's true.
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 5: Jesse Berwick is a native of Louisiana and obtained his
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 5: pilot's license when he was sixteen years old. He was
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 5: always interested in aviation, and after serving in the Air Force,
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 5: joined the Air Traffic Control and served for thirty seven years.
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 5: His family came to the Conroe area with the opening
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 5: of Houston International Airport in June of nineteen sixty nine.
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 5: So again, you have an Air Force veteran and a
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 5: veteran of the Air Traffic Control Service for thirty seven
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 5: years coming out the story. Now, is this guy full
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 5: of shit? I don't know, I don't know, could be,
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 5: But again, your night, Dude's ninety one years old now
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 5: and telling his version of what he experienced now was
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 5: butler David Ferry.
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 4: I don't know it would be an appropriate name, you know.
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 5: In the article it says that they had the picture
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 5: of the guy was in the newspaper, and I wish
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 5: that mister Berwick had remembered his real name and said
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 5: it in the article, but he didn't. So for now,
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 5: it's just an interesting story. Could mean something maybe maybe
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 5: not what.
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 4: A butler, but be an appropriate name for Fairy Tray.
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 4: You still have the common of the night with the titles,
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 4: but little butt play.
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 5: Yeah, oh, let me pop this up. Norman says that
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 5: Daniel Hopsticker theorized it was Barry Seal, who was at Redbord,
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 5: who was the Redbord Redbird Airport pilot. Seal, by the way,
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 5: was a cadet with Fairy Lee, Harvey Oswald and Bird's
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 5: outfit long before. Yeah, I mean there's all kinds of stuff.
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 4: Didn't he fly for? Uh uh? That drug dealer, the
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 4: big one, Ferry Seal? What the fuck is his name?
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 4: I'm blanking on it.
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 5: I'm sure he did Narcos.
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 6: What's it?
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 4: Uh? Oh, goddamn it, I'm blanking on it.
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 5: I don't know. He was one of those uh you know,
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 5: double agents that he was working for the CIA and
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 5: the fucking narcos.
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 4: He was born in Louisiana, drugs, small smuggling with uh,
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 4: goddamn it, Mediane Cartel. What's his name, goddamn it, I'm
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 4: blanking on it. Pablo Escobar, she'sus Christ I'm gonna do it. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 4: I think yeah. I think he got popped doing that
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 4: later on.
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 5: Sorry, quite possible. Now let's move on to another Redbird
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 5: airport accusation. Okay, that is not in Larry's uh presentation.
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 6: Mm hmm.
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 4: By the way, Rob, I ordered this book today.
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 5: Oh did you? Yes?
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 4: Mary haverstis a woman I know right. Oh, look at
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 4: you with the hardcover smoke us that I know.
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 5: The Joe story.
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 4: Spoken us say, that's pretty gangster.
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 5: Your confirmation picture will be on the cover.
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 4: Oh my god. Become a member to see my confirmation in.
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 5: This book was sent to me by our buddy John
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 5: here in the chat. That's why I told him to
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 5: stick around. He was nice enough to, ah, buy it
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 5: on Amazon, have it sent directly to my house, which is,
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 5: you know, a favor. I'll always be in favor of
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 5: very nice. If you want to buy your boy a book, yeah,
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 5: I'll give you my address and you can have it
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 5: shipped directly to my house.
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 4: I don't know why I blanked on that so long tubes.
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 6: I just couldn't replace it.
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 9: But yeah, I believe he was a pilot for Escobar.
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 9: Many drugs too, many years of drugs, allegedly.
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 5: Allegedly. Yes, so let's get to this now, Mary have
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 5: her stock in her book, she stumbled upon the story
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 5: of a lifetime. She had set out to make a
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 5: biopic of Jerry Cobb, one of a group of women
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 5: who passed the same tests as male astronauts on the
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 5: Mercury seven project in nineteen sixty. The women would never
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 5: fly into space, but they were talked or they were
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 5: hailed throughout the nation. Nevertheless, but the more Haverstick talked
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 5: with Cobb about and explored her life, the more she
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 5: realized there was a much bigger story, one that may
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 5: have changed the narrative in one of the biggest moments
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 5: in American history. This would be filmed, then became a
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 5: book called A Woman I Know, Female Spies, Double Identities,
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 5: and a new story of the Kennedy Assassination by Mary Harstick.
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 5: Harstick admitted there's a lot to unravel in this book.
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 5: Much of her research is over a ten to twelve
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 5: year period, was from CIA or Kennedy assassination files. She
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 5: talked about how a planned film about Jerry Cobb became
• 1:57:55
  Speaker 5: much more and led to the book. What I thought
• 1:57:58
  Speaker 5: she What I thought she was was this wonderful astronaut candidate,
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 5: tried to become an astronaut before women could and rejected
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 5: fought for female rights, which was an awesome positive story.
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 5: But I found that she had tremendous overlap biographically and
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 5: otherwise with a CI is by named June Cobb, who
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 5: actually grew up in the same hometown as Jerry. They
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 5: traveled the world almost in synchronicity, being same places the
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 5: same times, and I came to believe that this overlap
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 5: was just astronomically impossible to be something other than a
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 5: double identity. So basically I confronted Jerry with it. Did
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 5: she have a double identity with June Cobb, who, by
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 5: the way, has thousands of pages of files and the
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 5: Kennedy assassination documents. That's who the spy June Cobb is
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 5: she's someone all tied up with the Kennedy assassination investigation.
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 5: And so I went and confronted Jerry about impersonating June
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 5: at times or vice versa. What did Jerry Cobbs say
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 5: when confronted, Well, here's what's in chapter one of the book,
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 5: A Woman I Know. It starts with that conversation and
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 5: how Jerry placed herself at basically the scene of the
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 5: crime in Dallas when the day Kennedy died. She told
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 5: me an incredible story about how she was there in
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 5: a twin engine plane, had flown it in to cover
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 5: the event with media and cameras on board, but now,
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 5: for some bizarre reason, they did not go in to
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 5: cover the event. So now she's apparently sitting on the
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 5: air sitting on the runway, one of the runways at
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 5: Redbird Airport on November twenty second, nineteen sixty three, with
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 5: a group of people in her plane that she thinks
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 5: is media, but yet they don't get out of the
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 5: plane to go cover the event. The event being President
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 5: Kennedy in Dallas, they're just sitting there. And then she
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 5: was just desperate to get out of Dallas in the
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 5: wake of the assassination, which of course makes zero sense.
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 5: Jerry Cobb told Harstick that she was on the runway
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 5: at Redbird Airport in Dallas when Kennedy was actually killed.
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 5: Lee Harvey Oswald is rumored to have been out there
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 5: at that airport. There were many strange ties to that airport,
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 5: and Oswald was heading in the direction of that airport
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 5: as he was trying to leave Dallas. Maybe you can
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 5: pull up a map of Oak Cliff and kind of
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 5: see where the hell Redbird was. And while Joe does that,
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 5: I'll keep reading and we'll see if that is true.
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 5: He even had a bus ticket in his pocket that
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 5: could have potentially got him to that airport. That would
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 5: be his bus transfer pass. So there are many questions
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 5: before I found what I found about Redbird. What I
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 5: learned about Redbird was that it was a little executive
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 5: airport where private planes would come in and just like
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 5: what Jerry Kobb flew. And of course Jerry told me
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 5: the story in chapter one when she was trying to
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 5: get out of the air before Air Force one took off,
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 5: that would have shut down the airplay airspace when air
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 5: Force one took off, and she for some incredible reason
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 5: needed to get out of there, but unfortunately she was
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 5: waiting for something. And when she told me that story,
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 5: I could think of nothing other than a getaway flight.
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 5: I mean, what was she trying to escape that day
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 5: in Dallas. The book quotes extensively from CIE files and
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 5: a small group in the agency that was tasked with
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 5: killing Cuban dictator Fidel Castro. Halferstick was asked whether Oswald
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 5: acted alone, and she says, I do not believe that
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 5: he did. And that is my result of twelve years
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 5: of research on the topic, as well as conversations with
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 5: the woman I came to know, And basically, my views
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 5: are now in line with sixty five percent of the
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 5: American citizens who were recently polled who agreed with me
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 5: that there are just too many problems with the story
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 5: and that Oswald did not act alone, if at all.
• 2:02:22
  Speaker 5: All right, Joe, where are we at here? Right?
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 4: So we got Dallas here, we got love Field to
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 4: the north.
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 6: Let's see where, but we have.
• 2:02:44
  Speaker 4: Jesus Christ, where was it? I clicked out of it too.
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 5: I see Garland up there and.
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 4: It's south. No, I know, I'm just so that's sort
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 4: It's called right? Dallas? Yeah, and that's close to Walgreens
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 4: and subway but Oak Cliff right and south of Dallas.
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 5: So all right, but uh, make me get yeah, let
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 5: me do this a little bit, all right, that would
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 5: have been a long ass walk for him.
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 4: Beckley right, Beckley here, you know, Zang's right. We talked
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 4: about that.
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 5: So you can vaguely say he was headed in that direction.
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 5: But that would have been a hell of a jont
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 5: a hell of a walk.
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's that's far.
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 5: He likely would have popped the bus to get there.
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 5: I don't think he would have tried walking all the
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 5: way there.
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 4: You can't walk. You can't walk there. No, love Field
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 4: is much closer, not not by much. I mean not
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 4: by much.
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 5: Maybe why like a third though, it's still a hell
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 5: of a hike.
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 4: No, yeah, on foot. No, I'm not arguing the on
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 4: foot thing at all. Yeah, it's not too far.
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 6: Let's see where's.
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 4: Where's Dealey's mm hmm somewhere.
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 5: That's right there where I missed it, right in the
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 5: middle six flour Muse, even Daily Plaza. It's in purple
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 5: to your left, right near to the big class.
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 4: Oh oh yeah, yeah, so he would have had to
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 4: gone you know, obviously south down to oakl U where
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 4: Tippett was waiting for him, and then down to the Yeah,
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 4: that's far all right, you think you need a ride?
• 2:05:25
  Speaker 5: Yeah? Now, from the Merry Haverstick book, in the first
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 5: chapter they talk about Redbird Airport and and and Jerry,
• 2:05:43
  Speaker 5: who she's talking to. Haverstick says, she impersonated you, implying
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 5: that June impersonated Jerry. And Jerry says, yeah, I heard
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 5: she did, like you use your name of pretending she
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 5: was you for her spying. Yes, that's something you heard
• 2:06:03
  Speaker 5: she did. Yes, And then she says. Hastick says, well,
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 5: there's our problem, Jerry, that's it. Our film does have
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 5: a problem. If June Cobb, lady impersonates you, that means
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 5: she's all tangled up with you and her spying. Jerry.
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 5: This June Cobb was a highly sought after witness in
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 5: the jfk assassination investigation, and the government never brought her forward.
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 5: She's some kind of deep ci a And if she's
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 5: flying around impersonating you, then we found out what's wrong
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 5: with the filmy and Jerry says, they can't stop us.
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 5: Let's ignore it and move forward. Hastick says, well, this
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 5: June Cobb, let me tell you about her. There are
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 5: thousands of pages on her in those government files, more
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 5: than almost anybody else I saw in the files. The
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 5: government didn't bring her forward, and I think she knows something.
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 5: All these men who looked into history they ignored her
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 5: to but she was right there when a lot of
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 5: things happened, and she well, there was some cat leg
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 5: break thing where I know she broke some ladies cat's legs.
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 4: But you know what I think, Jerry, Wait, she broke
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 4: the lady's cat's legs.
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 5: That's what it says, okay, And Jerry says what Haverstick says,
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 5: I think she knows who killed President Kennedy. Jerry was
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 5: still looking at me with fondness, and then Jerry says, yes,
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 5: but no one would ever believe her, and she was
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 5: still smiling. Mary says, well, I believe her, and Jerry says,
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 5: but she's told so many lies, and Mary says, I
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 5: would believe her. So she's trying to coax the truth
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 5: out of Jerry, because Jerry's saying the June impersonated her
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 5: at the airport. But for some reason, Harstick doesn't believe her,
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 5: and she says, you know what I think she did, Jerry,
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 5: what I think she flew a plane into Redbird Airport.
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 5: Jerry leaned in as if she hadn't heard me quite right,
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 5: and I was aware the people to my left were
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 5: within touching distance, still eating silently. We were two hours
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 5: into this by now, Halverstick says, Redbird the Dallas Airport
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 5: Redbird on the day of the assassination November twenty second,
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 5: the day Kennedy was killed. Jerry lurched back in her
• 2:08:22
  Speaker 5: chair and exhaled. I'd never seen such an intense reaction.
• 2:08:28
  Speaker 5: She looked like she'd been punched hard in the gut.
• 2:08:31
  Speaker 5: All the time. She had no problem with this conversation.
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 5: An agent visited me with strange warnings and tried to
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 5: recruit for the CIA, not surprising her own memorabilia are classified.
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 5: Ignore it and keep working. There's another lady who looks
• 2:08:45
  Speaker 5: like you, with the same last name running up in
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 5: every town you go to, who has the same illness,
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 5: and despite astronomic ods, was in one of the most
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 5: remote spots on the planet at the same time you were.
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 5: She doesn't flinch. All this tangled up with the case
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 5: the assassination. No concern there but Redbird pew. Jerry looked
• 2:09:06
  Speaker 5: up at the ceiling and was beginning to cry. Her
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 5: face was up, and she was fighting, fighting and winning
• 2:09:13
  Speaker 5: to fight the tears welling in her lower eyelids. Only
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 5: when she knew she could contain the tears that her
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 5: head come back down. She looked at me and rasped out,
• 2:09:21
  Speaker 5: it was me at Redbird Airport. I couldn't believe this
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 5: was happening. I certainly had no plan for how to
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 5: proceed from here. Was this a confession? Or was was
• 2:09:32
  Speaker 5: this a confession that she was June? Was she dropping
• 2:09:36
  Speaker 5: the pretense that they were not one? Was she admitting
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 5: some connection to the assassination? There wasn't a lot known
• 2:09:42
  Speaker 5: about this Redbird flight except the obscure story that a
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 5: plane sat waiting to take off in reving its motor
• 2:09:47
  Speaker 5: at an airport in the direction Oswald was headed. At
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 5: least that was a speculation that Oswald could have been
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 5: trying to get to this flight. None of this did
• 2:09:57
  Speaker 5: I mention. So Halvestix says, you were at Redbird Airport
• 2:10:02
  Speaker 5: the day Kennedy was killed, and she says, yes, what happened?
• 2:10:10
  Speaker 5: Jerry says, I flew in a charter. I had some passengers.
• 2:10:13
  Speaker 5: They were from Miami. I flew flights like that. They
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 5: hired me. They were from Life magazine and were going
• 2:10:23
  Speaker 5: in to cover the event. They had cameras and reporters.
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 5: Jane Riker, a Life reporter and friend of Jerry's, was there.
• 2:10:33
  Speaker 5: I still have the flight log I can give it
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 5: to you. We flew in that morning from Miami and
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 5: got there and sat in a plane on the tarmac.
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 5: We didn't get out though, You just stayed on the
• 2:10:43
  Speaker 5: tarmac and didn't go in. Yes, we were waiting and
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 5: sat there just waiting, and then we heard something. Something happened.
• 2:10:51
  Speaker 5: So you got there with the reporters and you waited,
• 2:10:53
  Speaker 5: but you didn't go into Dallas, and then you heard something.
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 5: It happened, Yes, And we were waiting, and I was
• 2:10:59
  Speaker 5: worrying about their airspace would close down. So you were
• 2:11:02
  Speaker 5: worried about that something like this would shut down the airspace,
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 5: and I wanted to take off before the airspace was
• 2:11:08
  Speaker 5: shut down. We were out on the runway. But you
• 2:11:11
  Speaker 5: heard the news, yes, that Kennedy was killed. Yes. How
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 5: did you hear the radio or someone came out and
• 2:11:19
  Speaker 5: told us? Do you remember exactly how you heard Kennedy
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 5: was shot. No, I'm not sure I think that's something
• 2:11:27
  Speaker 5: you would remember. But okay, he lost in thought and
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 5: I was having to jump in to keep her responding
• 2:11:34
  Speaker 5: to me. So you got the news about Kennedy, were
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 5: you upset? Yes, But I was more worried about the
• 2:11:39
  Speaker 5: airspace than Kennedy being dead. So again, it's a story,
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 5: and I don't know how much of it to believe,
• 2:11:56
  Speaker 5: and it seems like an odd event. But she says
• 2:12:10
  Speaker 5: she has the flight manifest and she says she named
• 2:12:14
  Speaker 5: somebody that was on there from Life magazine from Miami
• 2:12:19
  Speaker 5: who could be corroborated. I don't know if have herstick
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 5: ever corroborated this story with Riker. Of course, Riker could
• 2:12:24
  Speaker 5: have been dead by then, and that really doesn't mean
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 5: anything then, and again, we don't have anybody at Redbird
• 2:12:34
  Speaker 5: Airport reporting this suspicious activity to the FBI. We got
• 2:12:40
  Speaker 5: Skufuza Wayne in January talking about something that happened five
• 2:12:44
  Speaker 5: months ago that seemingly had nothing to do with anything.
• 2:12:49
  Speaker 5: But yet on November twenty second, you don't notice that
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 5: a plane full of motherfuckers landed and sitting on the
• 2:12:53
  Speaker 5: tarmac for hours, and that doesn't raise up anybody's hackles
• 2:13:00
  Speaker 5: to report that to the FBI. Come on, come on,
• 2:13:08
  Speaker 5: and again, if even if it's a true story, what
• 2:13:11
  Speaker 5: does it mean? Okay, it just shed happened to be
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 5: flying these people in from Miami from Life magazine to
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 5: cover the event, and for some reason they never got
• 2:13:23
  Speaker 5: out of the plane and they sat there for a
• 2:13:26
  Speaker 5: couple hours and then left.
• 2:13:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that doesn't make sense to me, None of it
• 2:13:33
  Speaker 4: makes sense. You know, reporters would have been at what field?
• 2:13:42
  Speaker 5: Then you know there was cia connections between you know,
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 5: Life Magazine, Claire booth Loose, these anti Castro Cubans exiles, yeah, and.
• 2:13:58
  Speaker 4: The like I think dr too right, right, Yeah, So.
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 5: There's all kinds of entertanglement here. It's just I just
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 5: don't know where to land on it. I mean, of
• 2:14:09
  Speaker 5: course later in the book, you know what, it goes
• 2:14:16
  Speaker 5: from sitting on the airport for hours and never getting
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 5: out of the plane to all of a sudden she's
• 2:14:19
  Speaker 5: a bubusky lady. So I don't know how you get
• 2:14:23
  Speaker 5: there from there. But there's there's something going on here
• 2:14:29
  Speaker 5: that smells fishy to me. And again, it's just a story.
• 2:14:33
  Speaker 5: We don't have to believe it one way or the
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 5: other until there's hard evidence. You know, does she supply
• 2:14:39
  Speaker 5: the flight plan? Does this woman run down her witness?
• 2:14:44
  Speaker 4: Right? Does the FAA in theory should have that flight
• 2:14:49
  Speaker 4: plan right, manifest of reporters, whatever.
• 2:14:56
  Speaker 5: Yeah, they should have all this stuff. But I don't
• 2:14:59
  Speaker 5: know if have her think that due diligence and running
• 2:15:02
  Speaker 5: all this stuff down, because I mean, that's how the
• 2:15:05
  Speaker 5: chapter ends, you know what I mean. And I was
• 2:15:09
  Speaker 5: trying to see if she footnoted anything in here to
• 2:15:14
  Speaker 5: where we could actually go back and look. So let
• 2:15:18
  Speaker 5: me look at the first chapter note section and see
• 2:15:22
  Speaker 5: if there's anything there, because it's not really footnoted on
• 2:15:30
  Speaker 5: the page. So let me take a look. See.
• 2:15:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I'm not sure if that's connected at Sally.
• 2:15:44
  Speaker 4: Do you think Life got their hands on those that's
• 2:15:49
  Speaker 4: why Life got their hands on the Superor film? I
• 2:15:53
  Speaker 4: wouldn't make that connection. And Paula also says Habrostek doesn't
• 2:15:59
  Speaker 4: believe Cob stayed in the plane, So it goes to
• 2:16:03
  Speaker 4: your I guess Bubushka lady or her bubush girl lady theory.
• 2:16:11
  Speaker 4: Let's see, Cob could have been the preggers in the theater.
• 2:16:22
  Speaker 4: That's a good room, Paula. You never know. I don't
• 2:16:28
  Speaker 4: know why a pregnant lady would be seeing war as
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 4: how in the middle of the early afternoon.
• 2:16:36
  Speaker 5: But I mean, there's a note here that says that
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 5: she was arrested Cob and Wriker together from the book
• 2:16:44
  Speaker 5: Woman into Space on page sixty nine to seventy two.
• 2:16:49
  Speaker 5: I don't know what that means. Doesn't mean she was
• 2:16:52
  Speaker 5: on the flight.
• 2:16:55
  Speaker 4: Same day, nineteen sixty nine to seventy two. What you said,
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 4: sixty nine to seventy two.
• 2:17:08
  Speaker 10: Yeah, pages oh, oh, okay, okay, I'm sorry. That's her
• 2:17:15
  Speaker 10: citation for got it, got it, Neman Riker, got it.
• 2:17:24
  Speaker 5: Viola June Cobb testimony before the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on
• 2:17:29
  Speaker 5: Internal Security March thirty, nineteen sixty two, that she was
• 2:17:34
  Speaker 5: also employed by Life magazine for Jerry Jerry Cobb to
• 2:17:40
  Speaker 5: Jean Ross Howard a letter dated July twentieth, nineteen sixty.
• 2:17:45
  Speaker 4: Five, I said, it's not likely, Sally, that pregnant woman
• 2:17:54
  Speaker 4: watch war war films in the middle of a Friday afternoon.
• 2:17:59
  Speaker 4: It's not like it's not normal. Not saying it's not possible.
• 2:18:06
  Speaker 4: I'm saying it's not.
• 2:18:07
  Speaker 5: Normal, especially in nineteen sixty three. Correct, But uh, I mean,
• 2:18:17
  Speaker 5: so what does this all mean? Once again, Joe, we're
• 2:18:24
  Speaker 5: left with more questions than answer. I think you start
• 2:18:29
  Speaker 5: to look at some of these allegations in a logical
• 2:18:31
  Speaker 5: manner and put them into context with what we can
• 2:18:35
  Speaker 5: prove and do. Know, some of this stuff starts to
• 2:18:40
  Speaker 5: fall apart of the seams, some of these allegations. And look,
• 2:18:44
  Speaker 5: I didn't even bring up who's that Skafuza.
• 2:18:54
  Speaker 4: Which one?
• 2:18:54
  Speaker 5: There's a lot in the abort team Tosh plumbley. Oh yeah,
• 2:19:01
  Speaker 5: I didn't even bring that up because it's not even
• 2:19:04
  Speaker 5: worth looking at because I don't believe the worth the
• 2:19:07
  Speaker 5: guy says some of you may do and you may
• 2:19:11
  Speaker 5: be like raw, you know, could being in that sole
• 2:19:13
  Speaker 5: You should look into his story more well, because I'm
• 2:19:18
  Speaker 5: thinking he probably flew into Red Bird too. I'm sure
• 2:19:21
  Speaker 5: that's part of his story and all that ship. But
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 5: I didn't even want to go there, James. True, it's
• 2:19:40
  Speaker 5: kind of sure.
• 2:19:42
  Speaker 4: You're not wrong. Uh uh, not that I would know,
• 2:19:49
  Speaker 4: but I imagine you're not wrong. I'll trust problem that one.
• 2:19:53
  Speaker 5: Uh you know, I've lived it twice, trust me, he's
• 2:19:56
  Speaker 5: not far off the mark. But again, they don't have
• 2:20:02
  Speaker 5: to be pregnant to be crazy either.
• 2:20:04
  Speaker 4: So yeah, but yeah, I mean, I agree with you,
• 2:20:11
  Speaker 4: like kind of more questions than answers. I really don't
• 2:20:18
  Speaker 4: know where to land on it yet. Like I said,
• 2:20:21
  Speaker 4: the book is coming in the mill, missus Haversticks. I
• 2:20:26
  Speaker 4: ordered it today on Amazon and I'm looking forward to
• 2:20:29
  Speaker 4: getting it. But I really, you know, until I read it,
• 2:20:33
  Speaker 4: I don't really know.
• 2:20:37
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, to me, a much more plausible scenarios.
• 2:20:42
  Speaker 5: CIA doesn't give two shits about Lee Harvey Oswald, to
• 2:20:45
  Speaker 5: be honest with you, especially after he's been set up
• 2:20:50
  Speaker 5: and pinned for the assassination of the president. Do you
• 2:20:53
  Speaker 5: really think to see, I really gives two craps about
• 2:20:56
  Speaker 5: getting this guy out of the country. Be much easier
• 2:20:59
  Speaker 5: to kill him.
• 2:21:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah, right, And even.
• 2:21:05
  Speaker 5: If he does talk, he still doesn't know who set
• 2:21:08
  Speaker 5: him upright, because you've used cutouts along the way, and
• 2:21:14
  Speaker 5: anything he says can be denied, you know, because he
• 2:21:19
  Speaker 5: doesn't know anybody's real names. He doesn't know how to
• 2:21:22
  Speaker 5: really get in contact with anybody that the CIA or whatever, FBI.
• 2:21:27
  Speaker 5: You know, it's yeah, it's just these giant plans that
• 2:21:35
  Speaker 5: people come up with and think they've stumbled onto some
• 2:21:37
  Speaker 5: kind of miraculous information. Well, this proves that Lee Harvey
• 2:21:41
  Speaker 5: Oswold was trying to get out of the country. He
• 2:21:42
  Speaker 5: must have known about something about the assassination. He had
• 2:21:47
  Speaker 5: to be in on it somehow, you know, or the
• 2:21:51
  Speaker 5: super secret CIA was trying to fly him out. And
• 2:21:54
  Speaker 5: you know, I don't buy that. I just don't think
• 2:21:57
  Speaker 5: that the CIA would be worried about getting his dude
• 2:22:00
  Speaker 5: out of the country. I just don't if that's the
• 2:22:03
  Speaker 5: scenario you're going with.
• 2:22:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I I don't know. To be honest,
• 2:22:10
  Speaker 4: you know, we kind of presented a little bit of
• 2:22:13
  Speaker 4: both sides of the story. We went back and forth
• 2:22:16
  Speaker 4: and debated and good you know, in good faith and
• 2:22:22
  Speaker 4: all that good shit. I don't know, man, I don't
• 2:22:25
  Speaker 4: know where to land on it. Just kind of like
• 2:22:28
  Speaker 4: we always do at the end of these episodes, like
• 2:22:32
  Speaker 4: raises more questions than answers. Did he want to get
• 2:22:36
  Speaker 4: out of the country? Did he I know he was framed,
• 2:22:41
  Speaker 4: I'm sure of that, But.
• 2:22:48
  Speaker 5: There's a difference between wanting to get out of the
• 2:22:50
  Speaker 5: country after the assassination or wanting to eventually get to
• 2:22:54
  Speaker 5: Cuba in Russia because that's been planned for the entire year. Yep.
• 2:23:01
  Speaker 5: Well it's been a thing before the assassination. Yeah. When
• 2:23:06
  Speaker 5: you conflate it to be a thing after the assassination
• 2:23:12
  Speaker 5: to want to get out of the country, then you're
• 2:23:17
  Speaker 5: also pinning him with pulling off the crime and getting
• 2:23:20
  Speaker 5: away and having four knowledge and having the c I
• 2:23:24
  Speaker 5: want to help this guy out to get him out
• 2:23:25
  Speaker 5: of the country, which I doubt they would do. But again,
• 2:23:31
  Speaker 5: just my two cents on the thing. You know, I
• 2:23:35
  Speaker 5: feel like we shouldn't just get on here and pair
• 2:23:38
  Speaker 5: it other people's research. You got to put your own
• 2:23:41
  Speaker 5: spin on it. You got to point out the warts
• 2:23:43
  Speaker 5: and all in the theory. And look, Larry Hancock, it's
• 2:23:47
  Speaker 5: brilliant as a researcher, you know. And I'm not trying
• 2:23:52
  Speaker 5: to pooh pooh his theory, but you know, it's an
• 2:23:54
  Speaker 5: old theory, an old dirt theory, if you will, and
• 2:24:00
  Speaker 5: the things that make you go ah just aren't there
• 2:24:04
  Speaker 5: for me. You know.
• 2:24:10
  Speaker 4: That's fair enough.
• 2:24:10
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 2:24:11
  Speaker 4: I don't fault you for it, and I honestly don't
• 2:24:15
  Speaker 4: know where I stand yet on it. Man.
• 2:24:19
  Speaker 5: I definitely think he should have brought the information out
• 2:24:20
  Speaker 5: and make it known if this is what it's something
• 2:24:23
  Speaker 5: that he learned. You know, I don't even know if
• 2:24:27
  Speaker 5: Larry believes the story or not. This is just simply
• 2:24:29
  Speaker 5: them relaying some research in a story with a couple
• 2:24:36
  Speaker 5: supporting documents. They don't really support the narrative. But okay, yeah,
• 2:24:44
  Speaker 5: I mean, was it narcotics?
• 2:24:46
  Speaker 4: Was it gold dust?
• 2:24:48
  Speaker 6: I mean, I.
• 2:24:49
  Speaker 5: But again, that has nothing to do with what he's
• 2:24:52
  Speaker 5: talking about. Those were mystery calls he got from people
• 2:24:56
  Speaker 5: early in sixty three who wanted him to do something,
• 2:25:00
  Speaker 5: and we have. You're just conflating that it has something
• 2:25:02
  Speaker 5: to do with the assassination. It might have nothing to
• 2:25:05
  Speaker 5: do with the assassination.
• 2:25:08
  Speaker 4: Well, I'm not conflating it. I'm just I'm just bringing
• 2:25:14
  Speaker 4: up the different points.
• 2:25:15
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 2:25:18
  Speaker 4: But I mean, I don't even know if he left
• 2:25:21
  Speaker 4: his ring there, you know what I mean, right, the
• 2:25:26
  Speaker 4: leaving your wedding ring for Marina the morning of the assassination,
• 2:25:31
  Speaker 4: when you stayed there on a Thursday night, which usually
• 2:25:34
  Speaker 4: don't do. Like, who knows, you know what I mean? Like?
• 2:25:40
  Speaker 4: Is that made up? Is that not?
• 2:25:42
  Speaker 5: I don't know, I have no idea. Well, yeah, he
• 2:25:47
  Speaker 5: left it there, but again, and you can verify it
• 2:25:51
  Speaker 5: by looking at his rest photos. Does he have the
• 2:25:53
  Speaker 5: ring on? No, he's got a his USMC ring on,
• 2:25:57
  Speaker 5: and he's got his Brave ID bracelet. This is a
• 2:26:00
  Speaker 5: three dollars ID bracelet. Doesn't what we're on. So you
• 2:26:05
  Speaker 5: can infer from that that he left it somewhere, and
• 2:26:08
  Speaker 5: he probably left it where he stayed the night before,
• 2:26:10
  Speaker 5: which was at Ruth Payne's house. But now the reason
• 2:26:13
  Speaker 5: that he left it, if you want to complete that, well,
• 2:26:16
  Speaker 5: he knew what he was going to do something and
• 2:26:18
  Speaker 5: leave you can, you can say that, but you got
• 2:26:23
  Speaker 5: to remember that him and Marina were not getting along
• 2:26:26
  Speaker 5: at this time. They were separated, they were living apart, Okay,
• 2:26:32
  Speaker 5: they had just had a baby, and things weren't getting
• 2:26:34
  Speaker 5: better right, And and you know, Marina's got Ruth in
• 2:26:39
  Speaker 5: her ear saying, what a piece of shit this guy is.
• 2:26:42
  Speaker 5: He's no good, he can't take care of you and
• 2:26:44
  Speaker 5: your family. Blah blah blah blah blah. You don't need
• 2:26:47
  Speaker 5: a man. Look, I don't need a man. I got
• 2:26:49
  Speaker 5: rid of this Michael Payne bullshit. I'm doing it on
• 2:26:53
  Speaker 5: my own. We can do it on our own. Baby,
• 2:26:55
  Speaker 5: you know, just whatever bullshit he's in Marina's ear with
• 2:27:01
  Speaker 5: and you know they might have had a conversation, they
• 2:27:03
  Speaker 5: might have had a fight that night, and in the
• 2:27:06
  Speaker 5: morning he was like a fucking I guess things are over.
• 2:27:09
  Speaker 5: Here's your ring, bitch, I'm out type of thing.
• 2:27:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's hard to get in the
• 2:27:21
  Speaker 4: head of people almost sixty three years ago, right, Like,
• 2:27:28
  Speaker 4: we know their relationship was tumultualless, right, and they were
• 2:27:33
  Speaker 4: living apart, Ruth and Michael were living apart.
• 2:27:39
  Speaker 5: But it's not that hard Joe, when you're saying, okay,
• 2:27:41
  Speaker 5: you gotta put yourself why would what would drive you?
• 2:27:45
  Speaker 5: Joe Borelli, who's been having problems with your wife for
• 2:27:52
  Speaker 5: months and months and months now your wife has left
• 2:27:55
  Speaker 5: you and he's living with another lesbian with kids, right,
• 2:28:01
  Speaker 5: and it's in her ear and you go over there,
• 2:28:04
  Speaker 5: you know, at least once a week to see the kids,
• 2:28:06
  Speaker 5: you know, try to stab a little bit, you know
• 2:28:07
  Speaker 5: what I'm saying, Yeah, yeah, good graces, and it just
• 2:28:13
  Speaker 5: doesn't happen. You're still working a kafusa job. You're not
• 2:28:17
  Speaker 5: making a lot of money. Now the FBI is poking around,
• 2:28:22
  Speaker 5: you go over there and you have a big fucking
• 2:28:24
  Speaker 5: fight with her, and it seems like now it's shit's
• 2:28:29
  Speaker 5: really over because now you have another kid and she
• 2:28:32
  Speaker 5: doesn't seem to want to reconcile with you, and there's
• 2:28:35
  Speaker 5: nothing you can really do about it because you're just
• 2:28:38
  Speaker 5: a s kafuza working a shit dollar twenty five hour job.
• 2:28:43
  Speaker 5: You know, you can't say, look, I got a house now,
• 2:28:46
  Speaker 5: I can pay the bills, I can get you your
• 2:28:47
  Speaker 5: washing machine, I can you know, I'll give you the
• 2:28:49
  Speaker 5: life you always wanted, your American dream come back, baby.
• 2:28:52
  Speaker 5: You know right, you can't do that. So what are
• 2:28:57
  Speaker 5: the only options that would drive Joe Berelli to drop
• 2:29:01
  Speaker 5: his wedding ring and a fucking cup on his way
• 2:29:04
  Speaker 5: out the door that morning, is he's going.
• 2:29:07
  Speaker 4: To work some dope cubanas.
• 2:29:13
  Speaker 5: Either knew either You knew you had a fight. You
• 2:29:16
  Speaker 5: knew you weren't getting long, and you knew things weren't
• 2:29:18
  Speaker 5: going to work out. Yeah, and you'd finally had that
• 2:29:21
  Speaker 5: fight to where it was in your in your mind
• 2:29:25
  Speaker 5: a final thing like fuck it, I guess we're done
• 2:29:28
  Speaker 5: right at least for now, you know, maybe maybe the road,
• 2:29:31
  Speaker 5: but for now, all right, bitch, you want to be
• 2:29:33
  Speaker 5: like that.
• 2:29:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, who knows how many times he might
• 2:29:38
  Speaker 4: have left his wedding ring on the table after.
• 2:29:42
  Speaker 5: A fight, right, or they reconciled, right, they fell madly
• 2:29:47
  Speaker 5: back in love with each other that night. But yet
• 2:29:50
  Speaker 5: oswaldnew in his head what he was going to do
• 2:29:52
  Speaker 5: the next day and the implications of if he got caught, well,
• 2:29:56
  Speaker 5: you know, their relationship would be over forever. So he
• 2:30:02
  Speaker 5: puts his wedding ring in the cup because he knows
• 2:30:05
  Speaker 5: he'll never see her again, or he might never see
• 2:30:08
  Speaker 5: her again. But then you're implicating Oswald as the guilty party,
• 2:30:16
  Speaker 5: as doing the deed and getting caught ultimately, So there's
• 2:30:21
  Speaker 5: only two options really for putting that ring in the
• 2:30:24
  Speaker 5: cup to me, And when you weigh those two options,
• 2:30:29
  Speaker 5: what's the most likely If you don't believe Oswald did it,
• 2:30:33
  Speaker 5: then it's the first option. So see, when you break
• 2:30:39
  Speaker 5: these things down, Joe, it's not you know, you don't
• 2:30:43
  Speaker 5: have to sit here and say, well, I don't know
• 2:30:45
  Speaker 5: what this means. I don't know. We can figure out
• 2:30:48
  Speaker 5: what things mean by just taking it logically through what
• 2:30:54
  Speaker 5: people would do. Everything doesn't have to be a mystery.
• 2:31:00
  Speaker 4: Right, we know their relationship was tumultuals like they want
• 2:31:06
  Speaker 4: to wait from each other. Then they got back together,
• 2:31:09
  Speaker 4: then they went away, then they got back together. And
• 2:31:12
  Speaker 4: this happened like half a dozen times right throughout the
• 2:31:17
  Speaker 4: time they got back from Russia. Right, something new, really.
• 2:31:21
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but this has been the longest period they have
• 2:31:23
  Speaker 5: ever been apart. You gotta figure they weren't together from
• 2:31:29
  Speaker 5: the end of September until November twenty second, so almost
• 2:31:34
  Speaker 5: two months they'd been living apart because from the time
• 2:31:39
  Speaker 5: he goes to Mexico allegedly until November twenty second, they
• 2:31:43
  Speaker 5: weren't living together. Marina was with Ruth the whole time.
• 2:31:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know what she was.
• 2:31:52
  Speaker 5: So he stayed at the YMCA, he stayed with Bledsoe,
• 2:31:57
  Speaker 5: then he stayed at the rooming gains Beckley.
• 2:32:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and we can guess what she was kind of
• 2:32:03
  Speaker 4: spewing in Marina's ear for sure, right, that's not that's
• 2:32:08
  Speaker 4: definitely not a mystery.
• 2:32:10
  Speaker 5: No, So you can you can kind of walk yourself
• 2:32:15
  Speaker 5: through these logical explanations of things and based upon your
• 2:32:21
  Speaker 5: belief whether or not Oswald was guilty in the assassination.
• 2:32:25
  Speaker 5: If you think he was, then this is the most
• 2:32:28
  Speaker 5: likely scenario. But if you think that Oswald was set
• 2:32:30
  Speaker 5: up as a patsy like he said he was, then
• 2:32:33
  Speaker 5: this is that most logical explanation, right. And when you
• 2:32:38
  Speaker 5: start getting into all these complicated scenarios where the conspiracy
• 2:32:43
  Speaker 5: has to grow exponentially in order for everything to fall
• 2:32:46
  Speaker 5: into place, the less likely it is to be true.
• 2:32:50
  Speaker 5: And that's the arc I take when I look at
• 2:32:55
  Speaker 5: things like this, There's just so much there's so many
• 2:33:01
  Speaker 5: there's too many moving parts, and there's not enough documentation.
• 2:33:06
  Speaker 5: There's not enough proof for any of these stories really,
• 2:33:13
  Speaker 5: even the ones you believe so badly.
• 2:33:21
  Speaker 4: I'm right there with it, buddy. I'm happy we had
• 2:33:24
  Speaker 4: this kind of you know, back and forth debate, as
• 2:33:29
  Speaker 4: I hope our audience does. You know, you kind of
• 2:33:32
  Speaker 4: saw the documents and we trust our very smart audience
• 2:33:40
  Speaker 4: to kind of make up their own mind. You know
• 2:33:42
  Speaker 4: what I mean, exactly.
• 2:33:47
  Speaker 5: Exactly.
• 2:33:48
  Speaker 4: That's that's why we do this. I mean, we did
• 2:33:51
  Speaker 4: not plan this, but it I could. I could go
• 2:33:57
  Speaker 4: either way on it, you know what I mean. I
• 2:33:59
  Speaker 4: really I can't get and least head sixty two three
• 2:34:03
  Speaker 4: years ago.
• 2:34:04
  Speaker 5: You're a fence sitter. You are such a fence sitting motherfucker.
• 2:34:07
  Speaker 5: Oh come on, Yes, you can get in his head.
• 2:34:12
  Speaker 5: You can put yourself in his shoes, Joe, and you
• 2:34:16
  Speaker 5: can think to yourself, Okay, I'm Lee Harvey Oswald. I've
• 2:34:20
  Speaker 5: been through everything this guy's been through, and in this
• 2:34:22
  Speaker 5: time of my life, this is where I'm at, this
• 2:34:25
  Speaker 5: is what I'm doing. Why am I doing this? That's
• 2:34:28
  Speaker 5: the question is why is he doing what he does?
• 2:34:31
  Speaker 6: Right?
• 2:34:32
  Speaker 5: It's because of the things happening to him in his life?
• 2:34:35
  Speaker 6: Right?
• 2:34:35
  Speaker 5: What is his you know everything about this motherfucker's life.
• 2:34:40
  Speaker 6: We do.
• 2:34:41
  Speaker 4: What is his true end goal? You know?
• 2:34:45
  Speaker 6: And and I.
• 2:34:48
  Speaker 4: It's a working theory, you know.
• 2:34:50
  Speaker 6: I don't know.
• 2:34:52
  Speaker 4: I know I'm a fence cutter, but I don't know.
• 2:35:00
  Speaker 6: So you do know.
• 2:35:02
  Speaker 5: You just don't want to say it out loud. That's
• 2:35:06
  Speaker 5: all right. I'll say it for both of us.
• 2:35:08
  Speaker 4: Okay, say it for both of us.
• 2:35:12
  Speaker 5: I just did. Okay, all right, folks, that's the pod.
• 2:35:17
  Speaker 4: That's a pod.
• 2:35:20
  Speaker 5: Eve and a half hours in.
• 2:35:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Again, we hope you learned something in terms of
• 2:35:31
  Speaker 4: January and uh and June or Jerry Cobb and Redbird
• 2:35:38
  Speaker 4: Airport and uh.
• 2:35:40
  Speaker 5: Look, Jerry Cobb on her own fascinating story, whether or
• 2:35:45
  Speaker 5: not you want to buy into all this June Jerry
• 2:35:47
  Speaker 5: Cobb Cia bullshit, that's on you. But Jerry Cobb on
• 2:35:53
  Speaker 5: her own is a very fascinating story. Again. And if
• 2:35:59
  Speaker 5: you think a woman flying a plane into Redbird Airport
• 2:36:02
  Speaker 5: in nineteen sixty three wouldn't have attracted some attention, you're wrong,
• 2:36:09
  Speaker 5: just saying. And you can get off the fucking fence
• 2:36:12
  Speaker 5: about that, Joe.
• 2:36:14
  Speaker 4: No, I do not doubt that whatsoever. That's not January.
• 2:36:19
  Speaker 5: We said, hey, is this the FBI. There's some woman
• 2:36:23
  Speaker 5: out here flew in a plane. Now she's sitting on
• 2:36:25
  Speaker 5: the tar back for hours with a plane full of people.
• 2:36:28
  Speaker 5: I don't know what she's doing. I ain't never seen
• 2:36:30
  Speaker 5: a woman flying a plane here before.
• 2:36:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I mean even January planes back then. Bro.
• 2:36:38
  Speaker 5: And to have one land in your airport on one
• 2:36:41
  Speaker 5: of the runways for hours and you don't see nothing
• 2:36:43
  Speaker 5: or say nothing. Come on, man on the day of
• 2:36:46
  Speaker 5: the assassination bull shit.
• 2:36:50
  Speaker 4: I feel you, sir, I hear you, and real quick.
• 2:36:56
  Speaker 5: I just want to try something real quick, and we
• 2:36:58
  Speaker 5: may implement in our next week's live stream. Ooh, it's
• 2:37:02
  Speaker 5: hold tight.
• 2:37:04
  Speaker 4: Hold tight, hold tight, no pun intended.
• 2:37:08
  Speaker 5: Okay, oh, now check this out, Joe, what do you
• 2:37:13
  Speaker 5: think about this layout where the comments are on the screen.
• 2:37:21
  Speaker 4: Let me maximize my screen here, shit, I can't do it.
• 2:37:36
  Speaker 4: Oh maximize here we go. Well, okay, I like it.
• 2:37:45
  Speaker 4: I could see it a little better. Yeah when I
• 2:37:48
  Speaker 4: maximize it, of course, I'm Joey Tabs so uh.
• 2:37:53
  Speaker 6: But I like that.
• 2:37:57
  Speaker 4: Let us know in the comments if you like it
• 2:37:58
  Speaker 4: as well.
• 2:38:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Now this is this is rob experimenting with things,
• 2:38:04
  Speaker 5: and this is just the first of many experimental things
• 2:38:07
  Speaker 5: that we can do. But I'm just wondering if, if
• 2:38:13
  Speaker 5: this is what would be easier to keep track of things,
• 2:38:16
  Speaker 5: you know, because we can see him in real time
• 2:38:18
  Speaker 5: without having to open up another thing on the other screen.
• 2:38:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, see comments, it might be you know, live potting
• 2:38:29
  Speaker 4: is not the easiest thing. You have comments, you're highlighting,
• 2:38:33
  Speaker 4: You're trying to pay attention to your partner and what
• 2:38:35
  Speaker 4: they're saying. They're trying to prepare for your next segment.
• 2:38:39
  Speaker 6: But I like it. I do like it.
• 2:38:42
  Speaker 5: While your partner's saying something and he's not paying any
• 2:38:45
  Speaker 5: attention to what you're saying, and he's doing his.
• 2:38:47
  Speaker 4: Own sixty stop it, stop and stop.
• 2:38:59
  Speaker 6: See when you prepare.
• 2:39:00
  Speaker 5: Show, you're supposed to do it before the show, not
• 2:39:03
  Speaker 5: during this show.
• 2:39:06
  Speaker 4: See, there's something called improv and we do it every
• 2:39:11
  Speaker 4: week for two and a half, almost three hours.
• 2:39:16
  Speaker 5: I like it though.
• 2:39:18
  Speaker 4: People are saying it looks great, easier to read, So
• 2:39:27
  Speaker 4: I think that's a ya. But we'll we'll test it
• 2:39:35
  Speaker 4: out forget.
• 2:39:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah, jump right to it tonight because I didn't know
• 2:39:39
  Speaker 5: exactly if it were working out. I figured we'd tried
• 2:39:41
  Speaker 5: at the very end of the show. If it didn't work,
• 2:39:42
  Speaker 5: it wouldn't be a huge deal. But it seems to
• 2:39:45
  Speaker 5: be working okay, Yeah, so I think so we might
• 2:39:51
  Speaker 5: stick with it. Let's do it sweet, all right, grab
• 2:39:56
  Speaker 5: the damn dog, Dean, get your fat ass in here.
• 2:40:00
  Speaker 4: He did not talk for the record, but he said,
• 2:40:03
  Speaker 4: come to that's so.
• 2:40:05
  Speaker 5: Thank you guys here tonight and striding. Yes, he is
• 2:40:26
  Speaker 5: slam like button, folks that you're in here.
• 2:40:29
  Speaker 4: Yes, subscribing like hype it hype button. The quotation is
• 2:40:36
  Speaker 4: Jim Garrison's.
• 2:40:38
  Speaker 5: First one of the New year, folks. Get it started
• 2:40:41
  Speaker 5: off with a pang.
• 2:40:43
  Speaker 11: There's number seventy people here here watching tonight, so that's
• 2:40:48
  Speaker 11: a good way to start the year off. Yep, actual
• 2:40:52
  Speaker 11: life button every way out the appreciate it. Yeah, we'll
• 2:40:58
  Speaker 11: be back with the book review you.
• 2:41:00
  Speaker 5: We'll be back with a members only next Wednesday. I
• 2:41:06
  Speaker 5: believe all our holidays are done for a while. Yeah
• 2:41:13
  Speaker 5: you see Joe, he might be in Italy.
• 2:41:15
  Speaker 4: No, next time you'll see Joe, he won't have his beard.
• 2:41:22
  Speaker 5: Why is that? Joe too? Perfly ALEG, big bad Bob.
• 2:41:29
  Speaker 5: Don't get no complaints, So.
• 2:41:36
  Speaker 4: Send me your lotion formula.
• 2:41:40
  Speaker 5: It's called beard oil Man. All right, folks that.
• 2:41:47
  Speaker 4: Pace, Happy New York everyone, thank you for joining us.
• 2:41:50
  Speaker 5: Happy do you?
• 2:41:55
  Speaker 6: Yeah,