Latest / The Breakfast Club / THROWBACK INTERVIEW: Malcolm Jamal Warner On The Cosby Show Legacy, Musical Expression, _Accused_ Show + More

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THROWBACK INTERVIEW: Malcolm Jamal Warner On The Cosby Show Legacy, Musical Expression, _Accused_ Show + More · The Breakfast Club

0:00
Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning, Breakfast Club.
0:05
Speaker 2: Morning, everybody is Steve j Envy, Charlemagne the guy.
0:09
Speaker 3: We got a special guest in the building.
0:10
Speaker 4: You know what's interesting, I was thinking about, you know, organically,
0:13
Speaker 4: who is going to be the first guest in the
0:16
Speaker 4: new Breakfast Club studio, Because to me, that's important because
0:19
Speaker 4: you're setting off a new generation, you're setting off for
0:21
Speaker 4: a new chapter.
0:22
Speaker 5: So who would be the first guest?
0:24
Speaker 1: And I'm on it, we should be on it.
0:27
Speaker 5: Come on, man, grew up on them, Come on man.
0:29
Speaker 3: Ladies and gentlemen, Malcolm Jamon want awake.
0:33
Speaker 1: You know you said first guest. I didn't really register
0:38
Speaker 1: before you started. Yeah, but now okay, I got it.
0:40
Speaker 2: You're the first guest that one new studio, Ye studio.
0:45
Speaker 2: Somebody you know them is still Huxtable. Ladies and gentlemen,
0:47
Speaker 2: welcome word, thank you, thank you. I want to for
0:51
Speaker 2: people that that don't know, I want to.
0:54
Speaker 5: The most important question. Have you played the Mega millions?
0:59
Speaker 3: I thought you gonna say how you feeling, how you're doing?
1:01
Speaker 1: How you I guess I need to you need to
1:06
Speaker 1: Billy one.
1:06
Speaker 3: Point three billion?
1:08
Speaker 1: Okay, I did one? I did. I don't know the
1:10
Speaker 1: last one was in Billions a couple of months ago.
1:13
Speaker 1: How'd you do well? I thought I was doing good.
1:16
Speaker 1: Like I went there, I was like, yo, give me
1:18
Speaker 1: uh So, my wife has numbers that are like her
1:22
Speaker 1: lucky numbers, so when the numbers get real big, she
1:24
Speaker 1: wants to play those numbers. So and there's like three.
1:26
Speaker 1: So the car took her and I was like, you
1:28
Speaker 1: know what, play these And I was like, I'm a splurge,
1:31
Speaker 1: give me three more. And I think I'm doing good.
1:33
Speaker 1: And this cat next to me and the next one
1:35
Speaker 1: he was like, give me two hundred. I'm like, it's
1:41
Speaker 1: like that. So I'm not you know, I'm I didn't win.
1:49
Speaker 1: I don't have my own breakfast club.
1:51
Speaker 2: So clearly you went to Dolls, nothing nothing, so you
1:55
Speaker 2: didn't do good.
1:57
Speaker 1: I might go back in though. I mean if it's
1:58
Speaker 1: in the Billions.
1:58
Speaker 3: Against Billy right now, now, you're from Jersey City.
2:02
Speaker 2: People that don't know how did you get your start
2:04
Speaker 2: in show business? Because we heard that you were a
2:07
Speaker 2: rapper at first. You were in a rap group almost
2:09
Speaker 2: signed by Deaf Jam at the time.
2:13
Speaker 5: Are you true to that?
2:15
Speaker 1: Yeah?
2:16
Speaker 3: How did you get your start with show business?
2:19
Speaker 1: I was doing basically community theater. My mother was always
2:24
Speaker 1: looking for me to looking for things for me to
2:27
Speaker 1: do outside of going to school and coming home and
2:30
Speaker 1: hanging out. Like I played basketball and that was my thing.
2:34
Speaker 1: I thought it was gonna be a basketball player. And
2:36
Speaker 1: then one season, one year basketball season was over, my
2:40
Speaker 1: mother's friend suggested this community theater and I asked him
2:44
Speaker 1: if I wanted to go. So I went down, auditioned,
2:46
Speaker 1: got in, and found myself doing theater and just absolutely
2:50
Speaker 1: loved it. So like at nine years old, I was like, oh,
2:53
Speaker 1: this is this is what I want to do and
2:54
Speaker 1: what it was it was really it was the first
2:57
Speaker 1: curtain call. Like the first player I did was called Alice,
3:00
Speaker 1: Is that You? And it was basically, uh, a takeoff
3:04
Speaker 1: of the Whiz like Dorothy gets the Odds and everybody
3:07
Speaker 1: thinks she's Alice from Alice in Wonderland, right, And I
3:10
Speaker 1: played the ten man. And I just remember the first
3:13
Speaker 1: opening night coming out for curtain call, coming out and
3:16
Speaker 1: people clapping and standing up, and I'm like nine years
3:19
Speaker 1: old and I'm like, yo, I.
3:20
Speaker 5: Got that bug.
3:21
Speaker 1: I can get into this. People stand up and clap
3:23
Speaker 1: for you. Yeah, I like this.
3:25
Speaker 2: And at the time, Jersey City wasn't Jersey City now
3:27
Speaker 2: with these big skyscrapers and people dying.
3:30
Speaker 1: To Yeah, it was different. It was a whole.
3:33
Speaker 3: It was nasty.
3:34
Speaker 1: No one was scrambling to get the Jersey City. But
3:36
Speaker 1: but but this was La. I left Jersey when I
3:38
Speaker 1: was five. My my parents separated, Uh, and my dad
3:43
Speaker 1: went back to Chicago. My mom took me back to California. So, uh,
3:48
Speaker 1: the acting thing started in La. But then when I,
3:51
Speaker 1: you know, years later, when I booked Cosby obviously moved
3:54
Speaker 1: back to New York.
3:54
Speaker 3: How did you book Cosby? What was that? That process?
3:57
Speaker 1: Like, that's funny. So my my well, my agent first
4:00
Speaker 1: submitted me. They were looking for a six to fifteen
4:04
Speaker 1: year old Jesus. Yeah, they all getting ready for the
4:08
Speaker 1: well because because you know, Innis was fifteen and was
4:11
Speaker 1: six two mister Cosby sun So in the original like
4:17
Speaker 1: in the original script, like there was this this running
4:20
Speaker 1: joke like you know, THEO would you know, get in
4:22
Speaker 1: trouble with something and Cliff would be like THEO stand up,
4:25
Speaker 1: and THEO stands up and he's towering over Cliff and
4:28
Speaker 1: cliffould be like THEO sit down. So they were trying
4:30
Speaker 1: to get that they couldn't find that kid, and literally
4:33
Speaker 1: at the uh so, you know, she submitted me. They
4:36
Speaker 1: didn't want to see me, and at the last minute
4:40
Speaker 1: she re submitted me because they couldn't find the guy
4:43
Speaker 1: and they were doing network callbacks. This is crazy because
4:45
Speaker 1: it was good Friday eighty four. I auditioned at six
4:51
Speaker 1: thirty on Friday afternoon and the network callbacks were that Monday,
4:56
Speaker 1: so they were already flying in somebody from Chicago, flying
4:59
Speaker 1: in somebody from New York. So I was literally the
5:02
Speaker 1: last person they saw. And when I went in for
5:06
Speaker 1: the network callbacks, I went in and I did the
5:09
Speaker 1: audition like you know, you see, you know, I was
5:12
Speaker 1: watching different strokes and whatnot, so you see kids being
5:15
Speaker 1: smart alex and talking back to the parents and rolling
5:17
Speaker 1: their eyes. So I was doing the scene like that,
5:19
Speaker 1: and in the room is you know network, you know, producers, studio,
5:25
Speaker 1: and I'm killing. In the room, everybody's like, I'm hitting
5:27
Speaker 1: all the all the beats and everybody's laughing and I'm killing.
5:30
Speaker 1: And I finished, and everybody's like cool except mister Cosby,
5:33
Speaker 1: and he's looking at me and he's like, would you
5:36
Speaker 1: really talk to your father like that? And I said no,
5:39
Speaker 1: He said, I don't want to see that on the show.
5:41
Speaker 1: So you go back out and you give me something
5:44
Speaker 1: else and come back later. And because it was the
5:47
Speaker 1: network callbacks, like everybody was there, so they had, you know,
5:49
Speaker 1: audition everybody for other parts. And finally I came back
5:52
Speaker 1: in and gave him one hundred and eighty degree turn.
5:56
Speaker 5: Well clearly he saw something men.
5:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And and you know they gave me
6:01
Speaker 1: a shot to come back and redo it, and that's
6:03
Speaker 1: how I booked it.
6:04
Speaker 4: You know, it's interesting about what you said earlier. You
6:06
Speaker 4: said that you was in theater at nine years old.
6:09
Speaker 4: So people see these gifty young actors on shows like
6:14
Speaker 4: Cosby back in the day, and we don't realize the
6:16
Speaker 4: background because nowadays it feels like it's no point of
6:19
Speaker 4: entry to you know, get on these TVs anything.
6:23
Speaker 1: Or social media or social media.
6:25
Speaker 4: You actually went and were perfecting your craft before you
6:28
Speaker 4: got to that point.
6:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I still do, like I've always every couple
6:30
Speaker 1: of years, I do theater, even when I was on Cosby, Like,
6:33
Speaker 1: I always go back to theater because that is the
6:36
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the that's the foundation, you know, So
6:38
Speaker 1: I always say like theater is my favorite platform. Television
6:43
Speaker 1: is my favorite paycheck, but theater is really like like
6:47
Speaker 1: that's I mean, that's that's that's the ship right there.
6:50
Speaker 4: Have you ever just sat back and reflected on what
6:53
Speaker 4: you and The Cosby Show meant to black people in
6:57
Speaker 4: really the world from eighty four to I need to.
7:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I I mean we it's something that we
7:05
Speaker 1: still talk about, right, So, I mean, you know what
7:08
Speaker 1: I'm saying, we like like worldwide the culture, you know,
7:12
Speaker 1: because it's had a an indelible, irreversible effect, you know
7:19
Speaker 1: on the culture. So I mean it's something I'm very proud, like,
7:21
Speaker 1: no matter what, I'm very proud to, you know, have
7:25
Speaker 1: been a part of that and part of that, you know,
7:29
Speaker 1: just to have that kind of I guess influence if
7:33
Speaker 1: you will. And when I was younger, you know, it
7:36
Speaker 1: was always I was always trying to escape this role
7:39
Speaker 1: model you know title, because I was like, oh my,
7:42
Speaker 1: what use the role model? And my thing was always
7:46
Speaker 1: we always equate h perfection with role model. So I
7:50
Speaker 1: never wanted the pressure of being, you know, being seen
7:55
Speaker 1: as flawless because I just I didn't want that, Like
7:58
Speaker 1: that wasn't me. So I used to kind of kind
8:03
Speaker 1: of shy away from that, you know, that title. But
8:08
Speaker 1: and now that I'm older, not that I want to
8:10
Speaker 1: be considered a role model, but I do understand the
8:16
Speaker 1: you know, having the platform. I understand, uh, having the
8:21
Speaker 1: ear of young people like you know. Fortunately, I'm still
8:24
Speaker 1: at a place where I'm still relevant enough where you know,
8:28
Speaker 1: what I say can still have influence on you.
8:30
Speaker 5: Always listen to you because of that, sure.
8:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And and and that's something I take seriously.
8:36
Speaker 1: So I was, I was really fortunate because we shot
8:40
Speaker 1: Cosby here in New York, and you know during during
8:44
Speaker 1: the eighties, man, you know y'all didn't show that was
8:50
Speaker 1: actually that was actually so we shot in Brooklyn, then
8:54
Speaker 1: we shot in Queens, but that that stupe, that front
8:58
Speaker 1: stoop was actually in the village, in a village.
9:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna ask the THEO you being, you know,
9:05
Speaker 2: always looked at it steal.
9:06
Speaker 3: Does that ever bother you?
9:07
Speaker 2: Because with certain characters that we always look at, whether
9:10
Speaker 2: it's Steve Verkle, he's always gonna be Steve Verkle and
9:13
Speaker 2: you're always steal.
9:14
Speaker 3: Does that ever bother you?
9:15
Speaker 1: No, it doesn't bother me. But there's you know there's
9:18
Speaker 1: been this. I guess this this this wave of interpretation
9:22
Speaker 1: that it bothers me because somebody caused me THEO. I'm like, no,
9:24
Speaker 1: one name is Malcolm, but I've always done that, but
9:27
Speaker 1: some people they misinterpreted as like I get mad when
9:31
Speaker 1: people come to THEO. I think it's like no. And
9:33
Speaker 1: even when I was on Cosby, I wouldn't answer to
9:36
Speaker 1: THEO because as far as I was concerned, THEO was
9:39
Speaker 1: not going to be the end all be all for me,
9:42
Speaker 1: like at fifteen years old, to think like, oh, if
9:44
Speaker 1: this is going to be the height of my career,
9:45
Speaker 1: that's a depressing thought. When the show first aired and
9:50
Speaker 1: I'm fourteen, you know, the ratings are out the box,
9:53
Speaker 1: and my mom sat me down. She said, baby, it's
9:56
Speaker 1: great that this show is the phenomenon that it is,
9:59
Speaker 1: but you know how this business is, this show could
10:02
Speaker 1: be over next year. What are you going to do
10:04
Speaker 1: when the show's over? She said, I can type, I
10:07
Speaker 1: can always get a job, but what are you going
10:09
Speaker 1: to do in the show's over? So she impressed upon
10:12
Speaker 1: me the concept of longevity. So I wasn't you know,
10:16
Speaker 1: when I was on the show, I never answered the
10:18
Speaker 1: THEO and especially now you should know right like now,
10:23
Speaker 1: if somebody caused me THEO, they're being a dicky because
10:26
Speaker 1: they name.
10:27
Speaker 5: And I also don't think people look at you as THEO.
10:29
Speaker 4: Like I got get what I'm saying at this point,
10:32
Speaker 4: Like you've done You've done a lot other than THEO.
10:35
Speaker 4: I mean, you had a whole other show with your
10:36
Speaker 4: name in it. You know how long did it take
10:39
Speaker 4: you to it? Just to Life after Cosby show? Like
10:42
Speaker 4: how did things look in ninety two?
10:45
Speaker 1: Well, I'd always prepared for it. That was the thing,
10:47
Speaker 1: like I was, you know, from that conversation that my
10:50
Speaker 1: mom had with me, we literally spend each year of
10:54
Speaker 1: that show as if it were the last year because
10:57
Speaker 1: we didn't know. So I had always paired for Life
11:02
Speaker 1: after Kazi. So when the show was over, I had
11:05
Speaker 1: my own show for a half a season on NBC
11:08
Speaker 1: and then from that I went straight to theater. So
11:12
Speaker 1: I was, I've always I've always worked. No, there may
11:16
Speaker 1: there may have been, you know, longer stretches of unemployment
11:21
Speaker 1: than I would have liked, but we're talking like maybe
11:23
Speaker 1: you know, two three years, you know, But I always
11:26
Speaker 1: knew that the transition from being seen as child star
11:29
Speaker 1: to being taken seriously as an delt actor wouldn't necessarily
11:33
Speaker 1: be a smooth one. And that's why I started directing early.
11:36
Speaker 1: Like I started directing like sixteen. By eighteen, I was
11:39
Speaker 1: directing Cosby episodes. I was directing music videos. I was
11:43
Speaker 1: directing Fresh Prince of bel Air. So when I came
11:45
Speaker 1: off of Cosby, I think it was episode with one
11:52
Speaker 1: of the Ravens and Owns episodes.
11:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did you look at Bill Cosby as a
11:57
Speaker 2: father figure because you around him so much, did so
12:00
Speaker 2: much acting, like right, and and I mean you were
12:03
Speaker 2: a good actor, but it was believable. It seems like
12:06
Speaker 2: you admired him as a father when I when I
12:07
Speaker 2: would watch the show or even see you behind the
12:09
Speaker 2: scenes of the show whatever.
12:10
Speaker 1: Well, I was doing theater. I was perfecting my job, right, No,
12:16
Speaker 1: because I you know, I my father has always been,
12:19
Speaker 1: you know, an integral part of my life. So I
12:21
Speaker 1: have a father. He was you know, Misconstus was obviously
12:25
Speaker 1: someone I worked with, someone I respected, but Innis was
12:28
Speaker 1: also you know, a close friend of mine, so he
12:30
Speaker 1: was also like Inness's dad, got so it wasn't I mean,
12:34
Speaker 1: I would definitely say he was a mentor because he
12:37
Speaker 1: you know, he schooled me on a lot of you know,
12:38
Speaker 1: on a lot of things. But the I love the
12:43
Speaker 1: father's son relationship between Cliff and THEO, but that wasn't
12:49
Speaker 1: that wasn't our relationship. But you know, with Matt Coole,
12:51
Speaker 1: but it wasn't the It wasn't the father figure.
12:53
Speaker 2: Now as a mentor, did he school you on to
12:56
Speaker 2: contracts and negotiations? Because that thing it's still on now
13:01
Speaker 2: And I'm like, do you still get paid? And was
13:03
Speaker 2: everything taking care of the right way? Or is it
13:05
Speaker 2: you're a new actor?
13:05
Speaker 3: You got got?
13:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we got it and not once we got God,
13:08
Speaker 1: that's that's not that's completely unfair to say we got got.
13:12
Speaker 1: But I will say this, so, yeah, so we get residuals. Right.
13:16
Speaker 1: But the thing that that that people don't necessarily understand
13:18
Speaker 1: about residuals is every time an episode repeats, you get
13:24
Speaker 1: a percentage of what your original paycheck was. And that
13:28
Speaker 1: show has repeated forever.
13:30
Speaker 5: Correct.
13:31
Speaker 1: So let's say, to put things in perspective, about ten
13:35
Speaker 1: twelve years ago, I remember getting an episode check for
13:39
Speaker 1: sixty four dollars. I thought a residual check sometimes, Yeah,
13:45
Speaker 1: like I got at some point the sending the checkout
13:48
Speaker 1: costs more than what the check is correct. So for
13:51
Speaker 1: a period of time though, that lump sum was a
13:57
Speaker 1: nice padding. But then after a why you know, once
14:01
Speaker 1: it just keeps airing. It's not a whole lot. But
14:04
Speaker 1: when you have points when you got back in, that's
14:08
Speaker 1: when you're forever making money because when they syndicate the show,
14:11
Speaker 1: however many times they syndicated, you have a piece of
14:14
Speaker 1: the show, So you're getting that kind of money. We
14:16
Speaker 1: didn't get on the ship. We had no no backend.
14:19
Speaker 1: We didn't know about back in, and even if we did,
14:21
Speaker 1: we didn't have any leverage to negotiate back You.
14:25
Speaker 4: Said something that made me feel like I'm a fail
14:26
Speaker 4: of black history. Trivia question, Which show did you have
14:29
Speaker 4: on NBC for a half a season?
14:30
Speaker 1: Oh man, it was trust me in that a failure?
14:33
Speaker 1: They they they dicked me on that too. It was
14:36
Speaker 1: a show called Here and Now. Remember that show. Yeah,
14:39
Speaker 1: it came on, so it came on, It came on
14:43
Speaker 1: Saturday nights. It was it came on after or came
14:47
Speaker 1: on before there was a show called out All Night
14:50
Speaker 1: with Paddle or so. Yeah, so we were with nut.
14:59
Speaker 3: Got it.
15:04
Speaker 4: So disrespectful, but he's said he gets mistaken from you
15:08
Speaker 4: sometimes recently happened and you're the only one like that happened.
15:13
Speaker 4: Not only that, all right, I'm about all night. I
15:16
Speaker 4: definitely remember that.
15:19
Speaker 1: So it was during that time. So this is something
15:21
Speaker 1: that's really interesting. So we had that show. The president
15:25
Speaker 1: of the programmer at NBC at the time didn't like
15:27
Speaker 1: the show, right, and didn't think the show was going
15:30
Speaker 1: to do well. And it was basically, you know, it
15:33
Speaker 1: wasn't THEO, but you know, my character worked in the
15:35
Speaker 1: community center in Harlem, and uh, the program of NBC
15:41
Speaker 1: didn't think it was gonna be a funny show, didn't
15:43
Speaker 1: think it was gonna work. We shot the pilot and
15:46
Speaker 1: they do what's called pilot screening Week where they get
15:49
Speaker 1: all their pilots, they scream them, then they get raided
15:52
Speaker 1: and then that's how they decide what's gonna go on there.
15:56
Speaker 1: My show came in number two. So really the only
16:02
Speaker 1: question was do we put this show, you know, on
16:07
Speaker 1: Thursday night before a Different World or after Different World? Right?
16:10
Speaker 1: Because for eight years, if my face is you know,
16:14
Speaker 1: if the America's used to sing in my face at
16:16
Speaker 1: Thursdays at eight o'clock. It makes sense that if my
16:19
Speaker 1: pilot does well, you're gonna put me on Thursdays, either
16:22
Speaker 1: at eight o'clock or eight thirty. The programmers still didn't
16:26
Speaker 1: like the show, and he put me on Saturday night,
16:30
Speaker 1: which is why nobody ever heard, because you know, my
16:33
Speaker 1: audience is not gonna be watching it on Saturday night.
16:35
Speaker 1: And then when the number one rated, the number one
16:41
Speaker 1: pilot they put in that eight o'clock slot, they canceled
16:43
Speaker 1: after two weeks. Wo, so like, okay, cool, they're putting
16:46
Speaker 1: number two in that slot, kept me on Saturday night.
16:48
Speaker 1: Then they put out a night in that slot like
16:51
Speaker 1: NBC just they were not trying to hear that show,
16:54
Speaker 1: no matter how well it did. So we got we
16:55
Speaker 1: got canned half a season in.
16:57
Speaker 4: I think NBC dropped the ball because you know how
16:59
Speaker 4: different world was Lisa growing up being in college.
17:02
Speaker 5: They could have did that with all the kids, like
17:03
Speaker 5: they could.
17:04
Speaker 4: Have did that with you growing up. I feel like
17:06
Speaker 4: your adult life should have been exploreding that way.
17:07
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting, different world. So let me go
17:09
Speaker 1: back this real quick. So, uh so what you don't
17:12
Speaker 1: know about that show?
17:13
Speaker 5: Here?
17:13
Speaker 1: And now, uh this cat named Dante Bizet was on
17:17
Speaker 1: the show, right, everybody knows himing as y'all seen Bay
17:21
Speaker 1: right now. Oh, Lauren Hill was on the show. What Yeah,
17:26
Speaker 1: Omar Epps was on the show. Yeah. Yeah, but they
17:30
Speaker 1: they NBC this did they didn't dig the show and
17:32
Speaker 1: so of course this is before they blew up. But yeah,
17:34
Speaker 1: but they were all on the show.
17:36
Speaker 4: If they'd have made one little adjustment that made you
17:38
Speaker 4: THEO on that show and you older, now, I bet
17:40
Speaker 4: you would have worked.
17:41
Speaker 1: You know what, it's possible.
17:44
Speaker 2: I want I want to ask you know, out of
17:46
Speaker 2: all your episodes, I'll ask Alla, So, my most memorable
17:49
Speaker 2: Cosby show is of course the Going to Control season
17:51
Speaker 2: one episode, and of course that's not the most memory.
17:55
Speaker 1: Maybe the two of them. That was episode eighth.
17:58
Speaker 3: I think it was okay, of course the end. I
18:01
Speaker 3: did the same thing when I got my Eric. So
18:04
Speaker 3: what was your favorite.
18:08
Speaker 1: All of those? But I think that at the top
18:10
Speaker 1: of this would be the pilot when THEO was getting
18:14
Speaker 1: d's in school and they did the whole Monopoly money thing,
18:18
Speaker 1: and you know, THEO gives that that was ther and
18:25
Speaker 1: you know, THEO gives this speech, you know, like you know, Dad,
18:28
Speaker 1: I just want to be regular people like I don't
18:30
Speaker 1: want to be a doctor like you. I don't want
18:32
Speaker 1: to be a lawyer like like mom. I just want
18:34
Speaker 1: to be regular people And why can't you love me?
18:37
Speaker 1: For me? It was like this beautiful heart held Remember
18:39
Speaker 1: I remember that. I remember the audience collapsed and the
18:42
Speaker 1: whole nine and Cliff looks at and it's still It
18:48
Speaker 1: was the dumbest thing I've never heard in my life.
18:51
Speaker 1: And so for me that was significant because it's set
18:54
Speaker 1: the tone for the show. Like any other show at
18:56
Speaker 1: that point, the music would have started correct, the father
18:59
Speaker 1: and son would have but he, you know, he went
19:02
Speaker 1: left with that, and I just love that because that
19:05
Speaker 1: said the tone that this was going to be a
19:08
Speaker 1: different kind of show.
19:10
Speaker 4: We're gonna talk to about other stuff other than copy
19:12
Speaker 4: As a fan, I gotta get the first time, no doubt.
19:16
Speaker 5: Did you ever keep the Gordon Guardrail show?
19:18
Speaker 1: I did not. I think it's in the Smithsonian if
19:20
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was. That was
19:24
Speaker 1: one of our That was that was definitely one of
19:26
Speaker 1: our our most fun and for me, most memorable episodes.
19:30
Speaker 4: You never get approached about doing a Gordon Guarntrail clothing line,
19:32
Speaker 4: Malcolm Jamal warns.
19:33
Speaker 1: Gordon, I'm surprised I have not, but I see there's
19:37
Speaker 1: a Gordon Guartrail like t shirt line out there. Yeah. Yeah.
19:41
Speaker 1: I was asking how much of.
19:42
Speaker 2: The show was free, free done and how much was
19:45
Speaker 2: actually written? Like were you allowed to go off script
19:48
Speaker 2: because some of that stuff just seemed like y'all were going.
19:50
Speaker 1: We we had to often go off script because it
19:53
Speaker 1: so it takes it typically takes five days to do
19:57
Speaker 1: a sitcom. We were doing the he got down to
20:00
Speaker 1: like three and a half days, and you know most
20:03
Speaker 1: of those uh storylines came from mister Cosby's monologues, right,
20:09
Speaker 1: So we were a very under rehearsed show. So when
20:13
Speaker 1: it was time to tape the show, oftentimes, you know,
20:17
Speaker 1: if mister Cosby had like a monologue or something, he
20:19
Speaker 1: wouldn't know the monologue, so he'd like he'd go left.
20:23
Speaker 1: And the fun part for us was when we when
20:26
Speaker 1: he went left, we had to go left with him. So,
20:29
Speaker 1: you know, for me it was great because it was like, oh,
20:30
Speaker 1: this is theater. Now we just you know, we're you know,
20:33
Speaker 1: you follow you follow the leader, you follow the followers
20:35
Speaker 1: what we call it, so uh, you know, and and
20:38
Speaker 1: I love seeing those moments with him, and him and
20:41
Speaker 1: Olivia were cool. But like those moments with him and Keisha,
20:44
Speaker 1: you know, because at the time, you know, Keisha was four,
20:48
Speaker 1: so she didn't know how to read, so she had
20:50
Speaker 1: to know she had to remember what to say, how
20:53
Speaker 1: to say it, and when to say it. Wow, and
20:55
Speaker 1: the wind was always based on the line before. So
20:58
Speaker 1: she's doing things with mister Cosby, She's waiting for her
21:00
Speaker 1: line and he's just talking and they would just make it.
21:03
Speaker 1: It was just really cool to watch her and if
21:05
Speaker 1: you go back, you could just see her little brain
21:07
Speaker 1: processing how to maneuver through you know, what's happening. So
21:12
Speaker 1: so though stuff was written, you know, there was stuff
21:15
Speaker 1: that had to be kind of off book because we
21:17
Speaker 1: were we were following him and Felicia was the best
21:19
Speaker 1: at that.
21:20
Speaker 4: You look at those episodes absolutely, do you believe Malcolm
21:22
Speaker 4: and Eddie gets overlooked when it comes to the conversation
21:25
Speaker 4: of like classic black scum.
21:29
Speaker 1: Ah, I don't know. I don't know, because people do
21:36
Speaker 1: talk about it a lot, you know, and that was
21:41
Speaker 1: an interesting time for me, you know, having come from NBC,
21:44
Speaker 1: where you know, everyone was made to be ultra aware
21:49
Speaker 1: of the images of black people were putting across the airwaves,
21:53
Speaker 1: and then going to UPN, where their whole approach was
21:58
Speaker 1: the antithesis of that. So that was it was a
22:03
Speaker 1: difficult shift for me because I was thinking that I
22:07
Speaker 1: was of the mindset that they knew where I come from.
22:10
Speaker 1: They knew I was on the show that made history
22:13
Speaker 1: where black people, that showed that black people could be
22:15
Speaker 1: funny without being stereotypical. And you know, when I got
22:20
Speaker 1: to up and I realized they weren't interested in any
22:23
Speaker 1: of that. And you know, and for eight years I
22:25
Speaker 1: watched mister Cosby like all of the things that all
22:29
Speaker 1: of the stereotypical things that we did not see on
22:31
Speaker 1: that show was not because the writers were not writing.
22:35
Speaker 1: It was because mister Cosby is like, no, that's not
22:37
Speaker 1: what we're doing. That's not the tone of this show.
22:40
Speaker 1: That's not who the hucksbles are, We're not doing that.
22:43
Speaker 1: So I saw him do that from season one to
22:46
Speaker 1: season eight. So I figured, Okay, I'm at UPN. I
22:49
Speaker 1: know how it works. But you know, I was not
22:53
Speaker 1: Bill Cosby, and we were not doing Cosby numbers, so
22:55
Speaker 1: nobody really cared about what I cared about in terms
22:59
Speaker 1: of trying to you know, not be you know, not
23:02
Speaker 1: do the same typical black sitcom approach. And you know,
23:06
Speaker 1: I fought with writers, producers, Studio Network, and you know
23:13
Speaker 1: the show was not as you know, it was not
23:18
Speaker 1: one hundred percent what I wanted, but you know it
23:22
Speaker 1: wasn't as you know, stir it because they were trying
23:26
Speaker 1: to make it that.
23:28
Speaker 4: I love talking to you know, people from that era.
23:31
Speaker 4: You know, we had Kadem Hardistan and Jasmine Guy here,
23:34
Speaker 4: Erica Alexander's been up here and I asked him all
23:36
Speaker 4: the same question. Do you think it was an intentional shift?
23:40
Speaker 4: I'm just gonna say by day because I don't know
23:42
Speaker 4: who it would be to change that kind of content,
23:44
Speaker 4: because when you think about that era, it was all
23:47
Speaker 4: positive black content, intentional positive black content. But then it
23:50
Speaker 4: just seemed like it just shifted. You think that was
23:53
Speaker 4: purposely done?
23:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. It was like a like a reaction
23:58
Speaker 1: to like we had this couple of years of like
24:00
Speaker 1: you know, family and positivity and and and and not
24:03
Speaker 1: just in black sitcoms and sitcoms period, like you know,
24:06
Speaker 1: it was the it was the family values, was positivity.
24:09
Speaker 1: Then there was a Simpsons and there was Roseanne, right,
24:14
Speaker 1: so that kind of kicked off. It was almost like
24:16
Speaker 1: there was a backlash to the family values and positivity.
24:20
Speaker 1: So I I wholeheartedly believe it was it was intentional.
24:25
Speaker 1: Now when it comes to when it comes to to
24:27
Speaker 1: black sitcoms, you know, I think the thing that everybody
24:32
Speaker 1: missed was, you know, people looked at the Hucksaboys and
24:35
Speaker 1: was like, oh, this was this is an upper middle
24:37
Speaker 1: class black family. So we can do black sitcoms and
24:40
Speaker 1: we can give these you know, black characters, uh, professions,
24:45
Speaker 1: but the execution of the comedy was still the same.
24:49
Speaker 1: Like the thing about what made cause me different is
24:51
Speaker 1: the the comedy wasn't predicated upon being black. Black sitcoms.
24:58
Speaker 1: The comedy is predicated upon being black. So I think
25:01
Speaker 1: that's the missing piece that the you know following black
25:05
Speaker 1: black sitcoms missed out on. They're like, okay, well let's
25:09
Speaker 1: make them a professional. But it can still be you know,
25:12
Speaker 1: we can still jig. You know, you just never.
25:15
Speaker 4: Understood how things went backwards because copy shows big as
25:19
Speaker 4: hell in a different world, all of you know, Martin,
25:21
Speaker 4: all these shows big, living single, and we go back
25:24
Speaker 4: to we go back to nonsense, like I feel like
25:27
Speaker 4: you would build U pun that.
25:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was, it was. I definitely hardly agree.
25:32
Speaker 1: It's a intentional I was going to ask.
25:40
Speaker 2: Talked about it before, about the influence, but you know,
25:43
Speaker 2: looking back at it now, do you know, do you
25:45
Speaker 2: guys know that you guys and this was maybe what
25:47
Speaker 2: you were setting out to do, you guys, You guys
25:49
Speaker 2: raised so many families of what to do, how to act,
25:52
Speaker 2: how to talk to kids, how to have difficult conversations,
25:55
Speaker 2: how to you know, speak to each other. And then
25:58
Speaker 2: even with a different world, like I tell everybody that
26:00
Speaker 2: was the reason why I went to Hampton.
26:02
Speaker 3: University because of a different world. Was handled yet to me?
26:05
Speaker 3: You know, so do y'all look back and say, damn,
26:06
Speaker 3: we raised the generation?
26:08
Speaker 1: Yeah? But that was that was his intent. Like, he
26:12
Speaker 1: was very clear on what he was doing. He was
26:15
Speaker 1: very clear that he wanted those shows to be timeless.
26:19
Speaker 1: That was something he talked about consistently because there were times,
26:22
Speaker 1: you know, I'm fifteen sixty, I'm trying to use you know,
26:24
Speaker 1: whatever slang we were using at the time. He was like, no,
26:27
Speaker 1: that's going to date the show. Let's make up our
26:30
Speaker 1: own slang. So in twenty five years, when people are
26:32
Speaker 1: still watching the show, the show is still relevant. So
26:37
Speaker 1: you know, our credit to him because that's what he
26:40
Speaker 1: that's what he set out to do.
26:41
Speaker 2: How did you feel when, like I was said, a
26:43
Speaker 2: couple of years ago, they tried to take the show off?
26:47
Speaker 3: It bothered me because although.
26:48
Speaker 2: Everything that was going on the show was so positive
26:51
Speaker 2: for our culture. So how did you feel when they
26:53
Speaker 2: started taking the shows off of syndication and were threatening
26:56
Speaker 2: to pull the shows of different networks?
26:57
Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, I mean, you know real, you know the
27:01
Speaker 1: real it hit us all financially because now we weren't
27:04
Speaker 1: getting those residuals. Yes, with that lump, you know you're
27:08
Speaker 1: talking about you talking about eight years of residual So
27:11
Speaker 1: that's still a nice little padding. So it's interesting. I
27:14
Speaker 1: did in twenty fifteen, I put out my third record,
27:18
Speaker 1: right and on that record, I mean I got I
27:20
Speaker 1: got Leila Hathaway, I got Robert glasper letacy No this
27:24
Speaker 1: that was that's this one that's out now. That was
27:26
Speaker 1: called Selfless. So Layla Letters, Stokely, Rassam Patterson, Robert glasper
27:31
Speaker 1: Like the album is like it's a banger. I could
27:34
Speaker 1: not book any press unless I agreed to answer at
27:39
Speaker 1: least one question about Bill Cosby. It was the only
27:42
Speaker 1: way I was gonna be able to get my record covered. Wow,
27:45
Speaker 1: So I do this? Uh crazy? This this this interview
27:48
Speaker 1: with with ap Right. We spend twenty five thirty minutes
27:51
Speaker 1: talking about my career, talk about my music like it's
27:54
Speaker 1: a dope interview. And then at the very end, the
27:57
Speaker 1: last question she asked me is what do you think
27:59
Speaker 1: with the Cosby controversy that the legacy of the show
28:03
Speaker 1: has been tarnished? So I said, well, yeah, of course
28:06
Speaker 1: it's been tarnished because they've taken it off the show,
28:09
Speaker 1: and whenever we talk about stereotopical black images on television,
28:15
Speaker 1: we've always had the Cosby Show to hold juxtapose against that.
28:18
Speaker 1: But we no longer have that. The next day, all
28:22
Speaker 1: of the headlines read, remember, Malcolm Jamal Warner says the
28:26
Speaker 1: legacy of the Cosby Show has been tarnished. That's not
28:30
Speaker 1: even what she said. Yeah. So then I remember a
28:34
Speaker 1: couple months later seeing Keisha on some talk show and
28:37
Speaker 1: they asked her the same question, and she said, no,
28:41
Speaker 1: it's impossible to tarnish the legacy of that show, because
28:44
Speaker 1: there's a generation of kids who sought out higher education
28:49
Speaker 1: because of that show. There are generation to kids who
28:51
Speaker 1: grew up and got married and had loving families because
28:55
Speaker 1: of that show. There's no way that you can reverse
28:58
Speaker 1: the influence that that show has had on the culture.
29:02
Speaker 1: And so now I'll always bite her, I always bite
29:05
Speaker 1: her response now, But yeah, I mean, it's it's it's
29:09
Speaker 1: it's undeniable and it's irreversible. You know, it's had a
29:14
Speaker 1: you know, a huge impact on on on our culture,
29:18
Speaker 1: and it had a huge global impact on how black people,
29:23
Speaker 1: you know, saw themselves.
29:25
Speaker 4: I was going to ask you, you know, what's the
29:26
Speaker 4: pros and cons of having your name and the title
29:30
Speaker 4: of a sitcom and reference to Malcolm Andnetti.
29:32
Speaker 5: But to me, it's the same thing with that. I
29:34
Speaker 5: think if that.
29:34
Speaker 4: Show was called The Huxtables, it wouldn't even be a conversation.
29:37
Speaker 4: I think if it was called the Huxtables, people would
29:39
Speaker 4: easily be able to separate the art from the artists.
29:42
Speaker 4: So what do you think the pros and cons of.
29:45
Speaker 1: Probably that, really, you know, I think probably anybody who's
29:50
Speaker 1: who's having their own show and their own sitcom, because
29:52
Speaker 1: because also, remember you know, so many sitcoms are usually
29:56
Speaker 1: based around the stand up and you know, either they
30:00
Speaker 1: can handle the job or they can't. You know, that's
30:02
Speaker 1: that's what the success of the show depends upon. So
30:04
Speaker 1: I think for any stand up to have your own
30:06
Speaker 1: show and have it be your name, like, that's the dream.
30:11
Speaker 1: But I think to your point, that's that is that's
30:13
Speaker 1: a huge con But of course no one goes into
30:16
Speaker 1: it thinking that there's going to be the end result
30:20
Speaker 1: of that.
30:21
Speaker 5: I remember they did that with The New The New Roseanne.
30:24
Speaker 4: Relaunched all the Connors after when she got into the
30:28
Speaker 4: Earth situation. Now, are you still cool with cockroach called
30:31
Speaker 4: Anthony Payne.
30:34
Speaker 1: We're cooler and we're cooler as adults than we were
30:37
Speaker 1: during that time. No, we didn't at all the young
30:41
Speaker 1: ego and yeah, yeah that's what it was. Yeah, and
30:45
Speaker 1: it was and it was yeah, yeah, it was. It was.
30:50
Speaker 1: You know, we talked about earlier the original callbacks for
30:58
Speaker 1: Cosby the so they flew in an actor from Chicago
31:02
Speaker 1: and flew in an actor from New York. Carl was
31:05
Speaker 1: the actor they flew in from New York. So had
31:09
Speaker 1: I not auditioned for the show, Carl would have played theel.
31:14
Speaker 3: So look at you every day and see you took
31:16
Speaker 3: my part.
31:16
Speaker 1: And then I got to come back and play your
31:18
Speaker 1: best friend. Damn. So you know, I think, on one hand,
31:23
Speaker 1: you know, that may have had something to do with it,
31:28
Speaker 1: That was part of it. And he decided he had
31:32
Speaker 1: a huge ego, you know, Yeah, he had a huge ego.
31:36
Speaker 1: So and I didn't come from that kind of place.
31:39
Speaker 1: And you know, the way and the way I felt
31:42
Speaker 1: then and the way I feel now, you know, based
31:46
Speaker 1: on my career, if anybody, you know should walk around
31:49
Speaker 1: with a huge ego, it should be me. And if
31:52
Speaker 1: I don't roll like that, I don't really I have
31:54
Speaker 1: very little tolerance for people who roll like that. So
31:57
Speaker 1: we never really really we just never really got along
32:01
Speaker 1: back then. But you know, we're grown now, and you know,
32:04
Speaker 1: and Carl's been through a lot, like his journey is
32:07
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's been you know, he's had a journey,
32:10
Speaker 1: and as adults, we've been able to like sit down
32:13
Speaker 1: and have conversations and we're in uh, we're in a
32:17
Speaker 1: very cool grown man place now. Uh. Then we were
32:22
Speaker 1: you know, then we were teenagers and you know.
32:24
Speaker 5: I feel like you had to be broken up with
32:25
Speaker 5: something the way he signed it, I.
32:26
Speaker 4: Had to be broken up before.
32:30
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no, it wasn't that bad bad.
32:32
Speaker 3: You just speak to anybody from the show anymore, and
32:35
Speaker 3: you know.
32:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, Keisha, I mean, Kesha was my girl when she
32:40
Speaker 1: was four years old. It's always my lome. You know,
32:43
Speaker 1: we both live in Atlanta. Uh. Just Saturday, her and
32:47
Speaker 1: her husband over at our house. Her daughter is a
32:51
Speaker 1: couple of months older than my daughter, and our daughters
32:55
Speaker 1: absolutely love each other. So it's it's very surreal because
33:00
Speaker 1: like we'll look at at our darteris's player and look
33:02
Speaker 1: at each other like, yo, this is but yeah, dope, yeah.
33:06
Speaker 1: So she's when I talked to the most. But we're
33:09
Speaker 1: all we're all cool. I mean, we had an experience
33:12
Speaker 1: that no one else in the world has had, so
33:17
Speaker 1: that experience has really bonded us forever. So even if
33:21
Speaker 1: we don't, you know, if we don't talk for a year,
33:24
Speaker 1: you know, whenever we talk, it's just always it's always
33:26
Speaker 1: love and.
33:27
Speaker 5: Never will have again.
33:28
Speaker 4: Because I tell people all the time that eighties and
33:31
Speaker 4: nineties celebrity was different, Like there's not too many people
33:34
Speaker 4: black all white that was that famous in the eighties
33:37
Speaker 4: and nineties. Who aren't icons you, Mike can run play
33:40
Speaker 4: an office.
33:43
Speaker 5: Jo like you.
33:44
Speaker 4: Possibly, what was the difference between now and then celebrity wise?
33:48
Speaker 1: Social media? Social media changed the whole game. Like for
33:52
Speaker 1: me what I started to say earlier, growing up here
33:57
Speaker 1: in New York in the eighties, being on that show,
34:02
Speaker 1: for me, what it was the time of my life.
34:07
Speaker 1: And partially because I I'm you know, I'm fourteen, fifteen
34:12
Speaker 1: years old, I'm in the area, I'm in pseudient fifty four,
34:15
Speaker 1: I'm at Latin Quarter like, I'm in all these places
34:17
Speaker 1: I'm not supposed to be. So there was so much
34:21
Speaker 1: of the being the celebrityhood if you will, that I
34:26
Speaker 1: enjoyed so much. But because of not just the success
34:30
Speaker 1: of the show but what the show represented. I also
34:34
Speaker 1: understood that when I walked through the world, I was
34:36
Speaker 1: not only representing my mother and my father, I was
34:38
Speaker 1: also representing the show and everything this show stood for.
34:41
Speaker 1: So it allowed me to not be a knucklehead, like
34:46
Speaker 1: be able to enjoy everything but responsibly and you know,
34:55
Speaker 1: do stuff under the radar. But in whenever it was
34:58
Speaker 1: whatever I was doing under the radar wasn't like knucklehead
35:00
Speaker 1: stuff and you know, my parents had instilled a foundation.
35:06
Speaker 1: You know, my foundation of who I was was very strong.
35:10
Speaker 2: I was gonna ask you you never got caught up
35:11
Speaker 2: in the drug world or alcohol because Studio fifty four
35:14
Speaker 2: Last quartersback then was.
35:16
Speaker 1: No I could be around it. But it just wasn't
35:19
Speaker 1: That wasn't me. I mean, you know, look, my father
35:22
Speaker 1: named me after Malcolm X and the Maajamal like my
35:25
Speaker 1: father was not playing. So that's why I say, like,
35:28
Speaker 1: like before the fame, my foundation was so solid that
35:34
Speaker 1: I could be I could be around all that stuff
35:36
Speaker 1: and not have to participate in that, so to be
35:39
Speaker 1: able to enjoy everything that being famous had to offer
35:44
Speaker 1: without being a knucklehead. And again, being in New York
35:47
Speaker 1: is different from growing up on television in LA because
35:51
Speaker 1: in LA, your best friend is on the same lot
35:53
Speaker 1: on stage next door, whereas here in New York there
35:56
Speaker 1: weren't other shows here, so I wasn't hanging out with actors.
36:00
Speaker 5: Now.
36:00
Speaker 4: I got to give all props to your parents though,
36:01
Speaker 4: because you know, even when you talk to somebody like
36:03
Speaker 4: Kim Field is the same thing.
36:04
Speaker 5: She gives all her credit to her her mom. Because
36:07
Speaker 5: y'all had every y'all had every right to wild out.
36:11
Speaker 5: Y'all are the biggest things moving.
36:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, but we also we also came on the heels
36:17
Speaker 1: of Gary Todd Bridges and Danna Plato, so like we
36:22
Speaker 1: overlapped their you know, their journey. So for I just
36:29
Speaker 1: felt like, well, we got no excuse. You learned from that, Yeah,
36:32
Speaker 1: like we're seeing like it's like you hear about stuff
36:35
Speaker 1: and throughout history, but this was happening right now, Like
36:39
Speaker 1: I'm looking at Todd Bridges, So there was really no
36:41
Speaker 1: excuse for us to wild out like that. But again
36:45
Speaker 1: I also say because we lived in New York and
36:48
Speaker 1: not LA, we weren't hanging around other Hollywood kids. When
36:52
Speaker 1: we were shooting in Brooklyn the NBC studios on Avenue
36:55
Speaker 1: M and E's fourteenth Street, they didn't have a commissary,
36:59
Speaker 1: so at lunch we had to go out into the
37:01
Speaker 1: neighborhood and get whatever we're gonna eat. We moved to
37:04
Speaker 1: a coffin the story. Their commissary was whack, so we
37:07
Speaker 1: went out into the neighborhood and went and got we
37:10
Speaker 1: would get our lunch. So it was just a very
37:12
Speaker 1: different experience that we had being able to grow up
37:18
Speaker 1: in New York rather than grow uping television.
37:21
Speaker 2: And you said something earlier and I wanted to ask
37:23
Speaker 2: you about and you were saying that when you were
37:24
Speaker 2: promoting your jazz album. A lot of these outlets were
37:27
Speaker 2: saying that the only way that you can come up
37:29
Speaker 2: here is if you asked a question. If your answer
37:31
Speaker 2: question about Bill Cosby. How were you able to navigate
37:35
Speaker 2: all those questions? Because although you have your own stuff
37:38
Speaker 2: going on, you're doing plays, you're acting, you're doing movies, sitcoms.
37:41
Speaker 2: You know, you have your music, but you almost gonna
37:43
Speaker 2: want to be like, I get it, but this is
37:45
Speaker 2: what I'm here for.
37:46
Speaker 3: So how did you navigate through all that without you know,
37:49
Speaker 3: going down those those lanes by.
37:52
Speaker 1: Turning the you know, by whatever the question is, answering it,
37:57
Speaker 1: you know, the best way I could, Like I didn't
37:59
Speaker 1: want to.
38:00
Speaker 3: They want to know did you see him this?
38:01
Speaker 1: Yeah?
38:02
Speaker 3: What about this?
38:02
Speaker 5: You know?
38:03
Speaker 1: And the reality is I'm not in a position like
38:05
Speaker 1: whatever it is you're trying to ask. I don't know.
38:08
Speaker 1: I was. I was when I was a kid, and
38:11
Speaker 1: again I you know that was that was Inn's dad,
38:14
Speaker 1: you know, So I am not in a position to
38:18
Speaker 1: defend him at all. And there's no need for me
38:22
Speaker 1: to try to throw him under the bus because the
38:25
Speaker 1: rest of the world is doing that. And you know,
38:28
Speaker 1: like like you know, the real shit is I know
38:31
Speaker 1: what everybody else knows, and everybody else knows what the
38:35
Speaker 1: press has told them. So I don't really have I
38:40
Speaker 1: don't really have a real ground to stand on to
38:43
Speaker 1: speak on it as much as anybody else does. You know.
38:46
Speaker 4: So, and you might be biased because you didn't you
38:49
Speaker 4: saw a whole different side of him that none of
38:51
Speaker 4: us are privy too.
38:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, and and and I saw ah, I saw
38:58
Speaker 1: a very human side of him, like what everybody else
39:00
Speaker 1: is like, you know, he's America's famous, you know, favorite dad,
39:03
Speaker 1: and you know they they as people do with celebrities,
39:09
Speaker 1: you know, they put us on a pedestal. And again
39:12
Speaker 1: that's why as a kid, I don't want to be
39:13
Speaker 1: considered a role model, be perfect, cause I'm like, that's
39:15
Speaker 1: not me. But that's what we do to people. So
39:18
Speaker 1: while everyone is you know, I'm like, he's a man,
39:23
Speaker 1: he's got he's got his own got his own faults
39:25
Speaker 1: and whatever. False I saw though, it wasn't that. I
39:28
Speaker 1: you know, like mm hmm, I saw a man. So
39:32
Speaker 1: it's a different It's a different experience for me, uh
39:35
Speaker 1: than it is for everybody else.
39:37
Speaker 4: I've always loved how black your name is man, and
39:40
Speaker 4: finding out that you named after Malcolm Xican.
39:42
Speaker 5: You said, I'm not familiar with Ma's.
39:47
Speaker 1: He's a renowned jazz pianist, but he's a if you
39:52
Speaker 1: could be a jazz pianist and be militant as fuck,
39:55
Speaker 1: that's a ma. Yeah. Yeah. My dad was. My dad
39:58
Speaker 1: was I He used to go to Chicago during the summers,
40:04
Speaker 1: my dad, and during my summer vacations. He had this
40:07
Speaker 1: thick book called Great American Negroes and there, you know,
40:10
Speaker 1: chapters on Langston Hughes, Richard Riot, and Ray McLeod, film
40:13
Speaker 1: Mary Anderson. And he would make me read these chapters
40:16
Speaker 1: and write book reports. And this is during my summer vacation.
40:21
Speaker 1: I'm six, seven, eight, nine, ten years old. I'm like,
40:24
Speaker 1: I don't want to, but it's my dad, so I
40:26
Speaker 1: have to. But he was he was hardcore on making
40:29
Speaker 1: sure that I under that I understood my history and
40:33
Speaker 1: understood where I came from. And also he was he
40:38
Speaker 1: went he went to Lincoln University and he was there
40:41
Speaker 1: with Gil Scott Herron and Brian Jackson Jesus, and my
40:44
Speaker 1: dad went to Lincoln because Langston went to Lincoln. So
40:50
Speaker 1: the whole poetry thing that I do like I was
40:54
Speaker 1: really I was. I was a poet before I was
40:55
Speaker 1: an actor because my father was instilling all of these
40:59
Speaker 1: things in me, and he was doing it through the arts.
41:01
Speaker 1: Like my favorite book. I remember being in fifth grade
41:04
Speaker 1: and I used to carry around this book Poems on
41:06
Speaker 1: the Life and Death of Malcolm X. And I used
41:08
Speaker 1: to have it on my desk at school and kids
41:11
Speaker 1: would like laugh and tease me, like, oh, somebody wrote
41:14
Speaker 1: a book about you. Ha ha ha. And I'm in
41:16
Speaker 1: fifth grade and I'm realizing, wow, these not only do
41:19
Speaker 1: these kids not even know who Malcolm X is if
41:22
Speaker 1: they're reading poetry, they're not reading poetry as sophisticated as
41:27
Speaker 1: I am. And it was then like that was when
41:30
Speaker 1: it registered for me what my father was doing. Like
41:33
Speaker 1: all those summers of not wanting to read these books
41:36
Speaker 1: and write these book reports, I understood what he was
41:39
Speaker 1: instilling in me. And then when I was about fifteen,
41:43
Speaker 1: you know, you know, the show's popping, and now you know,
41:46
Speaker 1: I'm going to schools, I'm talking to kids, I'm in churches,
41:48
Speaker 1: I'm talking to kids, and it was that's when it
41:51
Speaker 1: hit me how my dad named me and what he
41:54
Speaker 1: was doing, because now I'm having this influence talking to
41:58
Speaker 1: young people. I remembering fifteen years old. I called my dad.
42:01
Speaker 1: I was like, yo, man, you set me up and
42:04
Speaker 1: he laughed. He was like, you're damn right for greatness. Yeah,
42:07
Speaker 1: and he didn't even know. You know, he didn't know
42:10
Speaker 1: that I was going to have this platform or what
42:12
Speaker 1: my platform was going to be. But yeah, he set
42:14
Speaker 1: me up for great whatever my path was going to be,
42:16
Speaker 1: he set me up for that.
42:17
Speaker 4: Why why when it came to musical expression, it was
42:20
Speaker 4: jazz because you you know you you're a hip hop baby,
42:23
Speaker 4: like you came up in the hip hop here, like.
42:25
Speaker 2: You just heard you about a month ago. He was rapping, Yes,
42:30
Speaker 2: what was that the legends.
42:32
Speaker 5: When he was naming all the names.
42:35
Speaker 1: Okay, so put it spoken word for that, but that's
42:38
Speaker 1: a plan for DMX. But he was rapping that's not me,
42:40
Speaker 1: that's not me. That's that's what you mean. No, that
42:44
Speaker 1: was that's this this cat on Instagram cash flow Harlem.
42:48
Speaker 1: He put that video out right and I would see
42:50
Speaker 1: this video and people were doing these remix videos. So
42:52
Speaker 1: you see the video on one side and you see
42:54
Speaker 1: people just kind of yeah, nobody saying the names. They
42:58
Speaker 1: just kind of nod. And one guy he was counting
43:01
Speaker 1: the names, but then he'd lose count, like that's it.
43:03
Speaker 1: And I was like that's it. So I was like,
43:05
Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna take the time. I'm gonna memorize
43:08
Speaker 1: what he's doing, and then I'm gonna make it a challenge.
43:11
Speaker 1: Nobody took me up on the challenge, but the video went.
43:15
Speaker 4: Viral because that's the first time I never I never
43:17
Speaker 4: eve knew somebody else made it.
43:18
Speaker 1: I thought that was not me. That was not mean wow, No,
43:22
Speaker 1: but why jazz though? So the jazz. So it's when
43:27
Speaker 1: I started my band. You know, I was always doing
43:30
Speaker 1: already doing poetry, right, I was in the spoken word scene.
43:34
Speaker 1: I was doing spoken word with other bands and whatnot.
43:36
Speaker 1: But when I started my band, it was to I
43:39
Speaker 1: was playing bass. It was the kind I wanted to do,
43:41
Speaker 1: like this jazz funk kind of thing, and then ultimately
43:44
Speaker 1: I ended up infusing my poetry with my own band.
43:49
Speaker 1: And neo soul you know, was big at the time,
43:53
Speaker 1: and you know, people because of the spoken word and
43:56
Speaker 1: what I was doing, they want to call it neo soul,
43:58
Speaker 1: And at the time, I was like, nah, neil soul
44:01
Speaker 1: is a fad. When that, you know, I don't want
44:02
Speaker 1: to be associated with a fad because when that runs out,
44:05
Speaker 1: you know, people might not be as interest as what
44:08
Speaker 1: I'm doing. If I call it jazz funk, then I
44:11
Speaker 1: could It's something I could grow into. So when I'm
44:14
Speaker 1: fifty sixty years old, I can still be doing that.
44:18
Speaker 1: And at the time, I mind you, I'm twenty six, twenty,
44:20
Speaker 1: I'm like twenty eight. Now. At the time, I was like, besides,
44:24
Speaker 1: no one's gonna want to hear a dude rapping at
44:27
Speaker 1: fifty years old. Now, well, now, fast forward, fast forward.
44:33
Speaker 1: You know, cast is still dice. But at twenty eight,
44:35
Speaker 1: we get at twenty eight, we didn't see it. We
44:37
Speaker 1: couldn't see that, correct. But so the jazz funk spoken
44:42
Speaker 1: word was just kind of my way of having this lane.
44:48
Speaker 1: But it's really what I do is really it's you know,
44:51
Speaker 1: it's so R and B and hip hop at the
44:54
Speaker 1: end of the day, because I'm not though I'm a
44:58
Speaker 1: jazz student, I'm not. I wouldn't consider myself a jazz musician.
45:02
Speaker 1: But I just wanted to use that title because I
45:05
Speaker 1: didn't want to get lumped in in neo soul. I
45:08
Speaker 1: didn't want to just call it because it's not just
45:10
Speaker 1: R and B. It's not just and it's not just
45:12
Speaker 1: spoken word. It's not just hip hop. It's really a
45:14
Speaker 1: combination of all of that. So when I describe it,
45:17
Speaker 1: I describe it as a jazz funk spoken word band,
45:20
Speaker 1: but it's probably more of a you know, R and
45:23
Speaker 1: B soul.
45:25
Speaker 4: Spoken word and Hiding Your play View is Grammy nominated, right, Yeah, yeah,
45:29
Speaker 4: how I feel?
45:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's dope. I got a Grammy in twenty fifteen
45:35
Speaker 1: with Robert Glasper and Laila Hathaway. I did not Yeah
45:40
Speaker 1: on Roberts Black Radio two album. He does a cover
45:44
Speaker 1: of Stevie Wonders, Jesus Children of America and Layla sings,
45:50
Speaker 1: and then I do a poem in tribute to the
45:53
Speaker 1: Kids from Sandy Hook And in twenty fifteen that one
45:57
Speaker 1: for Best Traditional R and B Performance. So for this album,
46:02
Speaker 1: Hiding and Playing View, which is my fourth album, for
46:05
Speaker 1: that to get Grammy nominated, you know like that, I mean,
46:09
Speaker 1: you know, it takes it to a whole another level. Like,
46:13
Speaker 1: of course getting a Grammy, that's amazing. It means everything.
46:17
Speaker 1: But to have my own work record and my own
46:20
Speaker 1: work that I did most of the production on myself.
46:23
Speaker 1: Even though I don't do this for validation, it's so validating,
46:28
Speaker 1: you know, and it feels congratulations.
46:33
Speaker 4: Now another thing that people might not know, The Magic School, Boss, Yeah,
46:36
Speaker 4: what made you get involved with the Magic School.
46:38
Speaker 1: I've been trying to do voice over, you know, also
46:41
Speaker 1: my whole career. So I get voice over work here
46:43
Speaker 1: and there, but it's a nut. I'm still trying to
46:47
Speaker 1: I'm trying, still trying to crack. But but I would say, uh,
46:53
Speaker 1: you know, I know you catch a busy, but whenever
46:55
Speaker 1: you get a chance, I implore you to listen to
47:01
Speaker 1: Hiding a playing review.
47:02
Speaker 5: I would love definitely because.
47:03
Speaker 1: It's a it's a it's an album that I say,
47:06
Speaker 1: it's it's an album that can shift the way we
47:12
Speaker 1: raise black boys on the album I have featured throughout
47:17
Speaker 1: the album. Is an award winning novelist and he's the
47:20
Speaker 1: assistant Professor of African American Studies at Clark Atlanta. Doctor
47:23
Speaker 1: Daniel Black and I have this one piece after this poem,
47:28
Speaker 1: Sante Son it's a long music bed, and I knew
47:30
Speaker 1: I wanted to get a statement from him because he's
47:33
Speaker 1: just a he's he's a beast. And we had this
47:36
Speaker 1: hour long conversation that I recorded, but he dropped so
47:40
Speaker 1: much knowledge that I had to put him throughout the
47:43
Speaker 1: whole album. And I would dare say I would go
47:46
Speaker 1: as far to say that The Hiding a Playing View
47:48
Speaker 1: is one of the most important albums to come out
47:50
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two, and a lot of that I
47:53
Speaker 1: attribute to him and the knowledge he's dropping, because, like
47:57
Speaker 1: the album opens, the first track is called love Song,
47:59
Speaker 1: and it's just him, and he says, the thing about
48:03
Speaker 1: a black boy is you don't necessarily want to beat
48:07
Speaker 1: a black boy. What do you want to do is
48:10
Speaker 1: you want to love him so divinely. You want to
48:14
Speaker 1: love him so fiercely that your disappointment will kill him.
48:19
Speaker 1: You want him, you want to adore him so much
48:22
Speaker 1: that the last thing he wants to do is disappoint you.
48:25
Speaker 1: Like that's how the album opens. So this is an album,
48:28
Speaker 1: as I said, it has you know it. It's an opportunity.
48:33
Speaker 1: It provides a shift in how we raise our black boys,
48:38
Speaker 1: which will then have a profound impact on how black
48:41
Speaker 1: boys relate to each other and black girls, which in
48:44
Speaker 1: turn have a even more profound impact on how black
48:47
Speaker 1: men relate to each other and how they relate to
48:50
Speaker 1: black women. And it can all be a significant step
48:56
Speaker 1: in our own self healing. So when I talk to
48:59
Speaker 1: people about the album, I say, this album is for us.
49:03
Speaker 1: It's for black boys, it's for black men, it's for
49:06
Speaker 1: black people. It's for non black people who have the
49:09
Speaker 1: foresight to see that our self healing is an invitation
49:13
Speaker 1: for them to examine their own necessary healing.
49:17
Speaker 5: Why do you call it hiding and playing view.
49:19
Speaker 1: Because it's something that we all do. There's a there's
49:24
Speaker 1: actually a poem the title track on album's called Hiding
49:27
Speaker 1: and Playing View, and that's the only piece without music.
49:29
Speaker 1: I just do that poem strictly a cappella and I
49:31
Speaker 1: talk about, you know, hiding and playing with you with
49:35
Speaker 1: something we all do. We all wear these masks, right,
49:38
Speaker 1: because we're all trying to hide what we think other
49:41
Speaker 1: people won't like about us. You know, like I spent
49:45
Speaker 1: you know, six years in a relationship, you know, halfway
49:49
Speaker 1: hiding because there were things I didn't think that you know,
49:52
Speaker 1: she would like about me, and and at some point
49:54
Speaker 1: I allowed myself to be disrespected, you know, but I
50:00
Speaker 1: look at it, I'm allowing myself to be disrespectable because
50:02
Speaker 1: I'm disrespecting I'm disrespecting myself because I'm hiding things about
50:06
Speaker 1: myself that I'm afraid that she's not gonna like. And
50:09
Speaker 1: in a relationship like that's the last place you should
50:12
Speaker 1: fear being vulnerable. So that that poem hiding a playing
50:17
Speaker 1: view is all about vulnerability and how vulnerability. You know,
50:24
Speaker 1: vulnerability is a scary thing, even when you're on the men.
50:28
Speaker 1: Black boys boast bravado not to seem broken, and often
50:32
Speaker 1: so do black men. So that poem itself, just in itself,
50:38
Speaker 1: I get so many responses from people who aren't black
50:43
Speaker 1: that that resonates. So it's an album that on the
50:47
Speaker 1: though on the surface it seems like I'm only talking
50:50
Speaker 1: about black boys, there is a universal reality to the
50:55
Speaker 1: album that, you know, the responses, like I said, I've
50:58
Speaker 1: been getting from non black people, it resonates with them too.
51:01
Speaker 4: I know, I know you probably got to go. But
51:03
Speaker 4: when it comes to healing, what was it therapy? Was
51:06
Speaker 4: it a spiritual leader?
51:08
Speaker 5: Was it just?
51:09
Speaker 1: What was it uh, people who are called spiritual leaders.
51:16
Speaker 1: My wife is a you got a masters's American Family
51:21
Speaker 1: Family Therapy, getting her pH d in clinical psychology. Yeah okay,
51:26
Speaker 1: and not even andy, and not even that, and not
51:29
Speaker 1: that she's been doing work on me, but just I
51:33
Speaker 1: you know, just I watch her, you know, and I
51:35
Speaker 1: watch her with our daughter. Uh. So that's what's helped me,
51:40
Speaker 1: like presently, but even before she and I met, you know,
51:43
Speaker 1: once I got out of broke up with my six
51:45
Speaker 1: year relationship, I spent like two years. I spent two
51:49
Speaker 1: years like a man who had been in the six
51:50
Speaker 1: year relationship. And then at some point I was like,
51:54
Speaker 1: I need to I need to stop, like I need
51:56
Speaker 1: to go on hiatus and not do any dating, you know,
52:00
Speaker 1: being in a relationship, not even dating, try not to
52:02
Speaker 1: have sex. But I had there was a space where
52:06
Speaker 1: I needed to get clarity for myself, and the only
52:09
Speaker 1: way I was going to get that clarity was by
52:12
Speaker 1: you know, sitting down and really dealing with you know,
52:16
Speaker 1: whatever thing's in here. Sure that I was busying myself
52:20
Speaker 1: from dealing with you could.
52:21
Speaker 4: Be keeping busy as a response to trauma a lot
52:24
Speaker 4: of times.
52:24
Speaker 1: All the time the time.
52:25
Speaker 5: Yeah, Yeah, all the time.
52:26
Speaker 3: So we got to talk about Accused.
52:28
Speaker 2: The reason you hear you got a new show on
52:31
Speaker 2: It starts January twenty second. Yeah, tell us about Accused,
52:35
Speaker 2: because it's not much on it. I looked at the trailers.
52:37
Speaker 2: We all looked at the trailers. We see you in
52:39
Speaker 2: an orange jumpsuit. So break down Accused.
52:42
Speaker 1: So Accused is a courtroom anthology series, so every episode
52:47
Speaker 1: is a standalone episode like Twilight Zone or Black Mirror.
52:51
Speaker 1: My particular episode is I play a man who's daughter.
53:00
Speaker 1: It's sexually accosted in a park, and I choose to
53:08
Speaker 1: meet out justice myself.
53:10
Speaker 3: Handle things on your own.
53:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we know how that typically goes, which is
53:15
Speaker 1: interesting because we always talk about, man, somebody touches my daughter.
53:19
Speaker 1: I remember saying that like ten years ago, before I
53:22
Speaker 1: even really thought I was ever going to really have kids.
53:24
Speaker 1: I remember saying, I'm like, man, yeah, man, you know
53:26
Speaker 1: I have a daughter. Man, I go to jail for
53:29
Speaker 1: my daughter. And they said yeah, and what good would
53:31
Speaker 1: you be to your daughter? Then? Right, And that's what
53:36
Speaker 1: changed my whole Like I was like, you're.
53:37
Speaker 2: Absolutely right, Like we talked that, but I still feel
53:41
Speaker 2: like that though I got four daughters.
53:43
Speaker 3: I still feel like that same.
53:44
Speaker 1: I got four daughters.
53:45
Speaker 4: You know, no matter how much therapy you do on yourself,
53:47
Speaker 4: no matter how much healing you get, you know, no
53:49
Speaker 4: matter how high you're emotional like you gets, I.
53:51
Speaker 1: Don't know what you're doing right right, And and but
53:55
Speaker 1: his point was when you're what good are you gonna
53:57
Speaker 1: be to your daughter when you're sitting there in jail,
53:58
Speaker 1: that facts like you're now you really cannot protect your daughter. Hey,
54:04
Speaker 1: you know like that that's what I'm saying, right, And
54:06
Speaker 1: he told me that like like ten years ago, and
54:08
Speaker 1: I was like, ah, that kind of changes doesn't make
54:11
Speaker 1: it any easier, but I mean, the feeling is still there,
54:14
Speaker 1: but it makes you really go like.
54:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you're only on one episode.
54:18
Speaker 1: It's only one episode, one episode, but it's a it's
54:21
Speaker 1: a it's it's a powerful episode. It's it's hard to
54:24
Speaker 1: watch because of the subject matter. And I think it's
54:29
Speaker 1: that's what it is with all the episodes. They're they're
54:31
Speaker 1: they're tough to watch because the subject matter is really tough.
54:35
Speaker 1: But the show it's really good and I'm I'm very
54:41
Speaker 1: proud of the work on the show. And again, it's
54:43
Speaker 1: just another side like with the resident as well. It's
54:46
Speaker 1: just another side of me that people don't normally get
54:50
Speaker 1: to see because of you know, most of the roles
54:53
Speaker 1: I get.
54:55
Speaker 2: I was going to ask before you get about of here,
54:58
Speaker 2: would you mind doing a poem?
55:00
Speaker 5: Why don't we just play one from you can do one?
55:02
Speaker 3: You can do one.
55:06
Speaker 1: Actually I'd like to do when you play.
55:08
Speaker 6: One morning, I appreciate it.
55:19
Speaker 1: Okay, this piece is Santa Sona about a guy and comrade.
55:31
Speaker 1: But you're still on that freedom ship word. Well you
55:35
Speaker 1: know what I mean, it's poetry. Well, still be on
55:37
Speaker 1: that weedam ship, that birthing inspirational couplets and breedom ship
55:42
Speaker 1: that I spit cats should heat them ship that words
55:46
Speaker 1: can't break my bones, but if you cut me homes,
55:49
Speaker 1: I bleed them ship atonement for the masters of hard
55:56
Speaker 1: asses and heads that tread on civil libertys in the
55:59
Speaker 1: most uncivilized the fashion is said to be dead. Can
56:03
Speaker 1: we afford to be dumb for free? See? That's the
56:05
Speaker 1: question I'm asking as I beg for an ounce of
56:08
Speaker 1: truth amongst the aloof surrounding me. My vices are proof
56:14
Speaker 1: that these demons keep pounding me. Reality keeps pounding me.
56:20
Speaker 1: Almost astounding me into the strange hypocrisy. You see, I
56:24
Speaker 1: preach the same hope that I'm losing daily. Like my religion,
56:31
Speaker 1: people are deep, I bear my soul. I stand on
56:34
Speaker 1: the precipice of this crossroads. It's like I want to
56:36
Speaker 1: give my life to the cause, But which one ignorance
56:41
Speaker 1: is running so ridiculously rampant. I can't tell if I'm
56:43
Speaker 1: hating or merely debating just for fun. But I do
56:48
Speaker 1: know my heart heaves heavy upon hearing the fluttering hum
56:52
Speaker 1: of the feeble footsteps of fear, stamping out the ferocious
56:56
Speaker 1: flames of our dog at desire and determination to outpace
56:59
Speaker 1: the haerldless prophecy our captors have programmed to be our
57:03
Speaker 1: faith and thus our fate. I know my soul soul
57:09
Speaker 1: rise with anxiety aches lies no longer need disguise when
57:14
Speaker 1: they start looking like the truth, Like how do we
57:17
Speaker 1: ignore cries of ill guided youth spitting dope bars of
57:21
Speaker 1: self hate overbeats that bang harder than strange fruit hags. Meanwhile,
57:27
Speaker 1: her breast hang and her booty bangs harder than the
57:30
Speaker 1: gun collapse of rival gangs fighting over territory they don't
57:33
Speaker 1: even own. And in magic cities everywhere. She feeds her
57:39
Speaker 1: babies based on her ability to shake what her mama
57:42
Speaker 1: gave her, because her pops was too busy breaking in
57:44
Speaker 1: his disappearing act to save her from these mean streets
57:47
Speaker 1: that eat the milk in one swallow. Lies no longer
57:50
Speaker 1: need disguise when the truth is viewed as hollow through
57:53
Speaker 1: the eyes that need it most. We descendants of stolen legacies,
58:04
Speaker 1: children of ancestors who cannot be broken, birthers, and bearers
58:10
Speaker 1: of a culture that has been repeatedly robbed and ransacked
58:14
Speaker 1: to feed the spiritually famine like a black woman's bosom.
58:20
Speaker 1: We who become a pre existing condition simply because we
58:24
Speaker 1: pre exist. We who realize we are worthy. We are
58:34
Speaker 1: the guardians. We are the gardeners. We are the soil,
58:38
Speaker 1: We are the toil. We are the protectors of our
58:41
Speaker 1: sieves who need to be protected, who need to see
58:43
Speaker 1: true love and black excellence redirected not through fame and fortune,
58:50
Speaker 1: but redirected through character. Indeed, and indeed, it is those
58:56
Speaker 1: who stand on the front line fighting for the minds
59:00
Speaker 1: of our young, black and gifted. It is you who
59:03
Speaker 1: are in inspiration to me because you are the revolution
59:07
Speaker 1: we do not see on TV. Sante SNA.
59:11
Speaker 3: Nice ladies and gentlemen, Malcolm.
59:16
Speaker 4: This interview, this whole conversation just is a reinforcement to
59:19
Speaker 4: just be intentional about your art.
59:21
Speaker 1: Yeah words about everything you've been.
59:22
Speaker 4: Talking about on the copy show to your spoken word.
59:25
Speaker 4: Just be intentional about your art because this.
59:27
Speaker 1: Is the way we reach people. Yeah yeah, and especially now,
59:31
Speaker 1: like you know, especially in the music business, you know,
59:34
Speaker 1: or really any art no one is making the money
59:36
Speaker 1: that they were making before and now with streaming, we
59:41
Speaker 1: don't make money off streaming, right, so this is an
59:44
Speaker 1: opportunity for artists to just really be about the art,
59:48
Speaker 1: you know, that's really all we have. Like what what
59:51
Speaker 1: legacy can you leave? And I'm just I'm just really
59:55
Speaker 1: big on you know, there's so much nonsense out there.
59:59
Speaker 1: We talk about the part of hip hop that's that's
1:00:03
Speaker 1: just trash, and I'm of the mindset of, you know,
1:00:07
Speaker 1: let them have that, Let's provide something else. Let's show
1:00:11
Speaker 1: let's show that there is another way, uh, you know,
1:00:15
Speaker 1: to express yourself through poetry. Let's show let's highlight let's
1:00:21
Speaker 1: highlight the dope ship you know, and if people you know,
1:00:24
Speaker 1: see enough of the dopeness. You know, they can make
1:00:27
Speaker 1: a choice.
1:00:29
Speaker 3: We appreciate you for joining us, brother, thank you for.
1:00:31
Speaker 1: Having me want to get into ah Man. I should
1:00:36
Speaker 1: have done hiding and playing view because that has doesn't
1:00:37
Speaker 1: have music. Sante Sona has music. What's your what's usually
1:00:43
Speaker 1: your timelinth on?
1:00:45
Speaker 3: We can't play a non minute song if you got
1:00:47
Speaker 3: a no, but like.
1:00:48
Speaker 1: This Black Blackfists beautiful, that might be like six minutes. Uh,
1:00:53
Speaker 1: we can play something dope, dope, we can play something
1:00:57
Speaker 1: we play it, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. See the thing
1:01:01
Speaker 1: about my you know, at least this partical loub it's
1:01:03
Speaker 1: hard to do snippets history. But you know what though,
1:01:06
Speaker 1: but honestly on the real what would be dope for me?
1:01:11
Speaker 3: Uh?
1:01:12
Speaker 1: If you'll listen to it and decide which one? Okay,
1:01:15
Speaker 1: it resonates with you enough to play enough? Yeah, I
1:01:17
Speaker 1: appreciate you, and gentlemen, I definitely appreciate it. Malcolm, welcome.
1:01:22
Speaker 3: This club.
1:01:22
Speaker 1: Good morning,