Latest / Rugby Direct / Rugby Direct Episode 256: Taylor axed, Lakai starts - have the All Blacks got it right?

Transcript

Rugby Direct Episode 256: Taylor axed, Lakai starts - have the All Blacks got it right? · Rugby Direct

0:09
Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from Newstalk ZB. Follow this
0:13
Speaker 1: and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
0:16
Speaker 2: Strike down the middle.
0:20
Speaker 3: Drop it down and score. There's your bonus point. Try.
0:23
Speaker 3: He's pumped. Try. Game over.
0:28
Speaker 1: Get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct
0:33
Speaker 1: with Elliot Smith and Liam Napier. Powered by Newstalk ZB.
0:37
Speaker 3: Welcome into Rugby Direct, powered by Access Solutions, elevating you
0:41
Speaker 3: and your business to a higher level. Rugby Direct, back
0:44
Speaker 3: in Johannesburg for, I don't know how many times I've
0:47
Speaker 3: been zigzagging around this beautiful country, but, Napes, good to
0:52
Speaker 3: be in Johannesburg for the final leg of the South
0:55
Speaker 3: African part of the series.
0:57
Speaker 2: It is, Elliot. It's been, what, a six-week expedition, and
1:01
Speaker 2: this is the last leg in South Africa, at least,
1:04
Speaker 2: and a big old week at that.
1:06
Speaker 3: Has been. A lot of controversy and various other things
1:08
Speaker 3: which we'll get into. Again, Liam, you've gone down with Ildis. Second,
1:14
Speaker 3: third time this tour. What's gone wrong?
1:16
Speaker 2: She's been a rough ride, that's for sure. There's Barley Belly.
1:20
Speaker 2: I've had Cape Town Belly twice. I'm blaming your famous,
1:24
Speaker 2: favoured Vixie's restaurant.
1:27
Speaker 3: Cape Town's quite good. Well, I think it's good. I've
1:30
Speaker 3: come through unscathed.
1:31
Speaker 2: It's good for some.
1:32
Speaker 3: Three times in this tour having gone there.
1:34
Speaker 2: Yes, it's been a rough couple of days. I haven't
1:37
Speaker 2: ventured too far. So, yes, great country, great people, but
1:43
Speaker 2: the food on this trip has not agreed with me.
1:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you've got an extra week here as well,
1:48
Speaker 3: so good luck. Let's get into the All Blacks team
1:51
Speaker 3: named for this third test. And, Liam, a fair few surprises,
1:56
Speaker 3: I guess you could say. We thought that maybe the
1:58
Speaker 3: Cody Taylor switch out of the 23 might happen, but
2:03
Speaker 3: they've gone and done it. Obviously, Sam Derry comes in
2:06
Speaker 3: as well. Pete Lakai into the run-on side. Those are
2:09
Speaker 3: the big three changes in the pack. Your reaction to
2:12
Speaker 3: that All Blacks team?
2:14
Speaker 2: Big, brave, bold. Yeah, I like most of them. We
2:19
Speaker 2: advocated it. I think everyone wanted Armour to get a crack.
2:23
Speaker 2: how could you not after his performances off the bench,
2:26
Speaker 2: just as ball carrying punch power, um, the way he
2:29
Speaker 2: bends and breaks the line. And we've talked a lot
2:32
Speaker 2: about the fact that the all blacks pack has lacked
2:35
Speaker 2: that ball carrying punch. So he certainly brings that, um,
2:39
Speaker 2: a wee bit of a surprise, perhaps that Taylor's not
2:41
Speaker 2: involved at all, uh, with Samsoni Takiahoa coming onto the bench. Um,
2:46
Speaker 2: but I think he will bring punch as well. Uh,
2:50
Speaker 2: I'm a big Peter Lakai advocate. Um, I probably believe
2:54
Speaker 2: he's an eight. His best position's eight or seven. And
2:57
Speaker 2: there is a bit of a curiosity that his two
2:59
Speaker 2: starts for the All Blacks this year have come at six.
3:02
Speaker 2: His last one was the opening test of the year
3:05
Speaker 2: against France. But he'll roam the edges. He'll bring real
3:10
Speaker 2: ball carrying. He's dynamic. He can offload. He's got pace
3:14
Speaker 2: and a step. I think the changes generally speak to
3:17
Speaker 2: the All Blacks' desire to run the box off their
3:20
Speaker 2: feet at altitude. Sam Darius being brought in, I think,
3:24
Speaker 2: to try and shore up the line-out. I thought Josh
3:26
Speaker 2: Lord might come back. Him and Ethan DeGroote weren't considered
3:30
Speaker 2: because of concussion. Both passed the protocols, but they wanted
3:33
Speaker 2: to give him another week. The concern I have with
3:37
Speaker 2: Sam Darius perhaps is physicality, but I guess we're going
3:40
Speaker 2: to find out this weekend where he's at.
3:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, big test for him. First time he started against
3:44
Speaker 3: South Africa, but I agree the blueprint is pretty clear
3:47
Speaker 3: as to The way the All Blacks want to play,
3:50
Speaker 3: they want to start stronger than they have in the
3:52
Speaker 3: previous two Test matches so far in this series. Obviously,
3:55
Speaker 3: it's got them to 1-1 at this point, but they
3:58
Speaker 3: want to get in a better position by halftime than
4:01
Speaker 3: they have been in the last couple.
4:03
Speaker 2: Well, they've only scored first in one of Dave Rennie's
4:05
Speaker 2: five Tests, the victory over Ireland at Eden Park.
4:09
Speaker 3: Speaks to the All Blacks' issues. Last year, it was
4:13
Speaker 3: the third quarter when they fell apart this season. time.
4:16
Speaker 3: They're struggling to get into the game and so they're
4:18
Speaker 3: going to have to figure out a way to do that.
4:20
Speaker 3: I think Amua's selection is a smart one. I think, look,
4:25
Speaker 3: obviously last week there were line-out issues. The All Blacks
4:28
Speaker 3: line-out operated at 83%. There were issues when Taylor was throwing.
4:32
Speaker 3: There were issues when Amua was throwing as well. So
4:35
Speaker 3: it's a real issue for the All Blacks getting that right.
4:38
Speaker 3: And when you've got Eben Etzebeth, Norkia, Peter Steftetoy getting up,
4:42
Speaker 3: you're dealing with players that have got around 400 caps
4:50
Speaker 3: worth of experience, maybe just slightly under that combined, they
4:53
Speaker 3: know their way around the line-out. So the All Blacks
4:55
Speaker 3: have got to find ways to be better. They say
4:57
Speaker 3: today that they have looked at that this week, but
5:01
Speaker 3: the pressure will be on more with the line-out because
5:03
Speaker 3: it's been an area where we can run a little
5:06
Speaker 3: hot and cold.
5:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, there's been so much focus on the scrum,
5:09
Speaker 2: hasn't there, and so much chat. around the tactics and
5:15
Speaker 2: the bickering. But it was the line-out, as you say,
5:17
Speaker 2: that was a fundamental failure from the All Blacks last week.
5:22
Speaker 2: It wasn't just the ones that the box snaffled. It
5:24
Speaker 2: was the disruption that they caused throughout. Even the ones
5:28
Speaker 2: the All Blacks did win, it was largely scrappy. And
5:31
Speaker 2: what the box did well is they actually largely closed
5:34
Speaker 2: off the back ball for the All Blacks. And so
5:37
Speaker 2: they said... gamble and throw to the back, and we're
5:40
Speaker 2: going to have our best line-out jumpers there, or you
5:43
Speaker 2: can throw to the front. And what that does is
5:46
Speaker 2: all rugby attack coaches will tell you that they want
5:48
Speaker 2: to go to the back to launch set-piece platforms. So
5:51
Speaker 2: very smart, technically, from the box, and they were very
5:54
Speaker 2: effective with it. So like you say, the All Blacks
5:57
Speaker 2: are talking about their adjustments. Maybe that's a few specials.
6:00
Speaker 2: Maybe that's a bit of... Quick throws, front ball to
6:05
Speaker 2: the props, getting set early, I'm not too sure, but
6:09
Speaker 2: they do need to get it right.
6:10
Speaker 3: I think it's getting set early. They've talked a lot
6:13
Speaker 3: about not wanting to waste time in matches, and this
6:18
Speaker 3: isn't wasting time necessarily because the line-out is set ready
6:21
Speaker 3: to go, but they seem to, whether it was getting
6:24
Speaker 3: the calls last week, whatever it was, but I often
6:26
Speaker 3: think just bang, bang, bang, getting it in and throwing
6:30
Speaker 3: is the best way to go about it. It's easier
6:33
Speaker 3: said than done, I know that, but it feels like
6:36
Speaker 3: they're a little too ponderous, perhaps at line-out time last week,
6:39
Speaker 3: so they need to find a way to try and
6:41
Speaker 3: solve that. So I think on Moore's selection as well,
6:44
Speaker 3: it actually is interesting to see how that goes with
6:48
Speaker 3: the scrums, because I think his frame suits scrummaging against
6:51
Speaker 3: a guy like Malcolm Marks, and we saw that with
6:53
Speaker 3: that big scrum back in the first test, and the
6:55
Speaker 3: way that he operated there as well. So I think
6:59
Speaker 3: that's going to be interesting to see how that goes.
7:03
Speaker 3: Another wee stat is that it is Dowery, Lakai and Oumuwa's,
7:08
Speaker 3: all of theirs, sixth test start.
7:11
Speaker 2: Okay.
7:12
Speaker 3: So that's a nod to the, perhaps the lesser experienced players.
7:16
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
7:17
Speaker 3: At a big game like this.
7:18
Speaker 2: Or it's one of the most experienced Springbok teams in history.
7:21
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, Oumuwa's been around the All Blacks camp
7:24
Speaker 3: on and off for nine, ten seasons now. Debut in 2017.
7:28
Speaker 3: Darry's been around a couple of years. Lakai's been around
7:30
Speaker 3: a couple of years. But in terms of starting games,
7:33
Speaker 3: this is a big moment for all three of them.
7:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was wondering where you were going with that.
7:38
Speaker 2: But it's a very good point because Rennie's 10 years
7:41
Speaker 2: in its infancy, right? But the series is locked at 1-1.
7:44
Speaker 2: This is the biggest test match probably the All Blacks
7:47
Speaker 2: have played since the Rugby World Cup. The only comparable
7:51
Speaker 2: one would perhaps be defending Fortress Eden Park against the Box. But...
7:57
Speaker 2: with everything on the line, Rene has turned to youth.
8:00
Speaker 2: He's dropped a Test Centurion and brought in guys with
8:07
Speaker 2: single digits of Test. So it's a massive vote of
8:11
Speaker 2: confidence in youth and it's also rewarding form. And I
8:14
Speaker 2: think he's done that with selections throughout this year. If
8:17
Speaker 2: you play well, if you knock on the door hard enough,
8:20
Speaker 2: you will be rewarded in most cases.
8:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely. And I think with the selection for Derry,
8:28
Speaker 3: I would love to see him bring a little bit
8:30
Speaker 3: more physicality. I thought he carried well in the two
8:32
Speaker 3: games he had in July, France, and Italy. He wasn't
8:36
Speaker 3: required against Ireland, and he hasn't been seen in a
8:39
Speaker 3: test match since. But I think he's a strong carrier
8:41
Speaker 3: of the ball. I think the line-out probably operated his
8:44
Speaker 3: best when he was on the park in July as well.
8:48
Speaker 3: So I'm intrigued to see how he goes. And Laka...
8:52
Speaker 3: I tend to agree with you, and the size factor
8:54
Speaker 3: probably worries me a little bit in that loose forward trio.
8:58
Speaker 3: Dave Rennie conceded today, obviously he's not the biggest player,
9:01
Speaker 3: but believes that he can run both sides of the ball,
9:08
Speaker 3: both attack and defence, and put the spring box in
9:10
Speaker 3: some awkward areas. So, yeah, let's hope that they do so.
9:13
Speaker 3: The back line, unchanged. Is that a surprise for you
9:16
Speaker 3: at all?
9:17
Speaker 2: No, I didn't think they would change the back line.
9:20
Speaker 2: I thought they may look at the bench options look
9:24
Speaker 2: I think the attack is functioning pretty well isn't it
9:26
Speaker 2: was it nine tries to four and really talked about
9:32
Speaker 2: the cohesion the combinations and when they do get quick
9:37
Speaker 2: hands and they do overload edges and and get space
9:42
Speaker 2: they're working really well so I'm not too sure What
9:46
Speaker 2: changes would you have made to that back line?
9:48
Speaker 3: Well, I can't see any. I mean, there's none that
9:50
Speaker 3: I would make.
9:51
Speaker 2: Lee Ricard was thrown in to start, and he was
9:53
Speaker 2: one of the All Blacks' best.
9:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I can't see an argument to make it.
9:57
Speaker 3: I think they've got their 9 to 15, the best
10:01
Speaker 3: players in each position as it stands currently.
10:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, the only issue, and it's a big one, is
10:05
Speaker 2: the high ball.
10:06
Speaker 3: Yeah.
10:06
Speaker 2: And that's a riddle the All Blacks cannot solve, not
10:10
Speaker 2: for a change in coaching regime. It looked as though
10:14
Speaker 2: they'd made some gains earlier this year, but coming up
10:17
Speaker 2: against a team as proficient and effective as a box
10:21
Speaker 2: with their kicking game and their aerial contesting, They've gone
10:25
Speaker 2: backwards at a great rate of knots, haven't they? Leroy Carter,
10:28
Speaker 2: I thought was good, has just catch it. He sort
10:32
Speaker 2: of followed through at times, but it remains a massive
10:36
Speaker 2: issue and the All Blacks know it's coming again.
10:39
Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't know how you solve it quickly.
10:42
Speaker 2: Neither do I.
10:44
Speaker 3: I don't know whether they need an AFL skills coach
10:47
Speaker 3: or somewhere in that because it's an area we don't
10:49
Speaker 3: see enough at Super Rugby level, then This is an
10:53
Speaker 3: old argument, but when you get to test level, opposition
10:56
Speaker 3: teams are going to kick at you and kick repeatedly,
10:58
Speaker 3: and the All Blacks just aren't equipped to deal with it.
11:00
Speaker 3: So whether it's a specialist coach, whether it's... I don't know,
11:03
Speaker 3: but they need to find a way to get more
11:06
Speaker 3: of that ball. I don't like the rule changes that
11:09
Speaker 3: have been in for a couple of years. I think
11:10
Speaker 3: it makes it a lottery, makes it a skittery type
11:14
Speaker 3: of game. I don't think it's a great look for
11:16
Speaker 3: the game. I'm not sure why World Rugby's done this,
11:18
Speaker 3: but they have. And I think ideally you bring back
11:23
Speaker 3: the escort, but it has turned it into a lottery
11:26
Speaker 3: and the All Blacks have to deal with it.
11:27
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it promotes kicking because, as you say, it's
11:31
Speaker 2: a 50-50 contest. So the team kicking the ball has
11:36
Speaker 2: a great chance of getting it back. So why would
11:38
Speaker 2: you not? So if you're receiving it, it's a lot
11:41
Speaker 2: more difficult. So that's where the All Blacks are struggling.
11:44
Speaker 2: Just going back a little bit with Sam Derry, one
11:47
Speaker 2: of his good skills is– soft hands at the line.
11:50
Speaker 2: And I think that, again, speaks to the All Blacks'
11:52
Speaker 2: desire to play at pace, to run the box off
11:55
Speaker 2: their feet. One point we haven't touched on is Fabian
11:57
Speaker 2: Holland to the bench. So no Josh Lord, but Holland's
12:01
Speaker 2: been one of the All Blacks' best. Were you surprised
12:03
Speaker 2: by that at all?
12:04
Speaker 3: A little, but I do wonder whether they think, and look,
12:09
Speaker 3: they're looking at the GPS numbers, whether they look and go,
12:12
Speaker 3: maybe the tank's just not quite where it is. Remembering
12:16
Speaker 3: he got injured in pre-season for the Highlanders. them playing
12:20
Speaker 3: two test matches back-to-back. He also played 80 minutes against
12:24
Speaker 3: the Bulls and 40 minutes earlier in the campaign against
12:28
Speaker 3: the Storm. I'm trying to think how much he... He's
12:30
Speaker 3: played a lot of rugby in a short space of
12:32
Speaker 3: time for someone that hasn't played much rugby previously this
12:35
Speaker 3: year to this point. So if they... I mean, ideally, hopefully,
12:39
Speaker 3: touch wood, neither of the starting locks get injured, but
12:42
Speaker 3: maybe he's got half an hour in him this week.
12:44
Speaker 3: Maybe they decide to rest him entirely next week, depending
12:47
Speaker 3: on the context of the series. I think he's been
12:49
Speaker 3: one of the All Blacks best in those last two
12:51
Speaker 3: test matches, but a little bit surprised, but I kind
12:55
Speaker 3: of think it's the right horses for courses approach here.
12:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he'll bring a lot of impact off
12:59
Speaker 2: the bench and the All Blacks will need that. They've
13:04
Speaker 2: won the last two quarters, so they're clearly targeting that again.
13:09
Speaker 2: Just in terms of those figures you speak of, the
13:12
Speaker 2: Box are running their veteran figures into the ground. We
13:16
Speaker 2: think about their phenomenal depth. Well, they haven't really used
13:20
Speaker 2: it in the series, so is that a risk? Are
13:24
Speaker 2: they going to fatigue? Because it's the All Blacks that
13:26
Speaker 2: are actually rotating more.
13:27
Speaker 3: It is, absolutely, and I don't think many would have
13:29
Speaker 3: expected that prior to the series. We saw what Rusty
13:31
Speaker 3: did last year between Auckland and Wellington, made mass changes.
13:35
Speaker 3: Wouldn't surprise me if they do that for Baltimore, even
13:37
Speaker 3: if they're 2-1 down, even if they have to win
13:40
Speaker 3: to get the series.
13:40
Speaker 2: I think both teams will rotate big time.
13:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, that travel factor is just going to be immense
13:45
Speaker 3: for a lot of players, and they're all on the
13:47
Speaker 3: same plane, but I think that you need fresh bodies
13:49
Speaker 3: when you get to Baltimore. So that wouldn't surprise me
13:53
Speaker 3: next week, but it has, yeah, it surprised me a
13:56
Speaker 3: little that they haven't changed things up. I think Russie
14:00
Speaker 3: or us has talked a couple of times about a
14:02
Speaker 3: World Cup mentality and what they're looking for. And obviously
14:05
Speaker 3: three quarterfinals, semifinals, finals games next year, also a round
14:09
Speaker 3: of 16 too, but you're going to have to have
14:12
Speaker 3: similar players. But I think, When you're facing the same
14:16
Speaker 3: opposition three weeks in a row, you do have to
14:18
Speaker 3: take a little bit of a horses-for-courses approach. So, you know,
14:22
Speaker 3: they're not presenting... Look, maybe they'll come up with some
14:24
Speaker 3: different tactics on the weekend. Maybe Tony Brown's going to
14:27
Speaker 3: get off the leash this week. Don't know. But they're
14:29
Speaker 3: not presenting different pictures to the All Blacks in terms
14:33
Speaker 3: of the personnel they're putting on the park. So, for me,
14:36
Speaker 3: I think that's a bonus for the All Blacks is
14:38
Speaker 3: that they know the way that these Springboks players are
14:41
Speaker 3: going to play. They haven't looked for a Hanekom. They
14:42
Speaker 3: haven't looked for changing up the second row. It's only
14:47
Speaker 3: been injury enforced. Yeah. They obviously did the prop thing
14:51
Speaker 3: or the front row thing last week. But yeah, I'm
14:56
Speaker 3: a little surprised that they've been so, not conservative, that's
14:59
Speaker 3: the wrong word, but so stringent in just picking the
15:02
Speaker 3: same players week to week.
15:04
Speaker 2: Well, it's a real deviation from what we've seen consistently
15:07
Speaker 2: from the box over the past year when they've won
15:10
Speaker 2: those 12 tests in a row. Yeah it's very intriguing
15:14
Speaker 2: and I guess the box are looking at it and
15:16
Speaker 2: going well we improved drastically from test one to two.
15:20
Speaker 2: We were far more efficient in our red zone conversion.
15:24
Speaker 2: We didn't get the scrum dominance we want but we
15:26
Speaker 2: made a mess of the All Blacks line outs and
15:29
Speaker 2: our power game worked even if we faded late in
15:31
Speaker 2: the game. So they're thinking that they can go step, step, step.
15:35
Speaker 2: The All Blacks are looking at it going well we
15:38
Speaker 2: haven't been at our best, we came back and blew
15:41
Speaker 2: the box away in the second half of the first test.
15:45
Speaker 2: We were inaccurate, didn't convert our chances, let them get
15:47
Speaker 2: away in the second so we need to start better
15:50
Speaker 2: and that's why I think they've injected some fresh legs.
15:55
Speaker 2: But yeah it is surprising when you look at the complexion.
15:57
Speaker 2: If you said at the start of the series who
15:59
Speaker 2: was going to rotate more, it would certainly be the box.
16:02
Speaker 3: Absolutely. Let's just touch on the All Blacks bench. You
16:05
Speaker 3: mentioned earlier the around maybe Cody Taylor being surprised that
16:08
Speaker 3: he hasn't gone to the bench and they've decided to
16:12
Speaker 3: go Takeoho. I'm intrigued at this point in their career
16:16
Speaker 3: whether Taylor can be an impact player. We saw Kevin
16:21
Speaker 3: Miyalama do that very well in 2015 World Cup. He
16:27
Speaker 3: came on and played the last 20 and they went
16:30
Speaker 3: for an older head that way. I'm not saying this
16:32
Speaker 3: is the end of Cody Taylor's starting career by any
16:34
Speaker 3: stretch of the imagination, but Maybe this is the point
16:39
Speaker 3: where they do have to consider, you know, is he
16:41
Speaker 3: the out-and-out starter? If he doesn't start, is he a
16:44
Speaker 3: bench player? Those are all sorts of conversations because not
16:47
Speaker 3: every starter's a bench player.
16:48
Speaker 2: I think it's a real crossroads. It is for Cody.
16:52
Speaker 2: He's been a stalwart of this team. He was next
16:54
Speaker 2: in line to be captain if it wasn't Artie Sevier.
16:56
Speaker 2: Rennie rates him highly as part of the leadership group.
16:59
Speaker 2: But that just shows that nobody's position's safe. And... he'll
17:05
Speaker 2: be nervous because a lot of it will depend on
17:08
Speaker 2: how Amua goes this weekend. If he has a shocker
17:11
Speaker 2: at the line-outs, then Taylor's stocks probably rise again and
17:15
Speaker 2: you think, well, the All Blacks really need him. I
17:22
Speaker 2: think he can be an asset off the bench in
17:24
Speaker 2: terms of coming in and closing out a game, but
17:29
Speaker 2: he's not your Amua, Takiahou, punch impact type bench player,
17:36
Speaker 2: so it depends what you want. And I think an
17:39
Speaker 2: Amua Takiahou one-two punch is pretty compelling.
17:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is. Look, the caveat is getting that line-out right.
17:48
Speaker 3: Because if you can't throw, that's your core job. If
17:51
Speaker 3: you can't throw straight, you can't get the ball to
17:53
Speaker 3: your jumpers, then your value diminishes, doesn't it?
17:59
Speaker 2: It does. And also, look, the line-out is not... cumbersome
18:03
Speaker 2: on one player alone.
18:04
Speaker 3: That's right.
18:04
Speaker 2: And often the blame falls on the hooker when there's
18:07
Speaker 2: so many moving parts in a line-out. But if there's
18:10
Speaker 2: a common denominator consistently, then it's pretty hard tag to shake.
18:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, because there's so much on the hooker, even
18:17
Speaker 3: if it's not their fault that the ball isn't going,
18:20
Speaker 3: there's often not straight or whatever, or balking, whatever it
18:23
Speaker 3: might be, all that responsibility falls on the hooker getting
18:26
Speaker 3: their part right. So that's key.
18:28
Speaker 2: Look, Armour is capable. I remember the test in Dublin,
18:32
Speaker 2: I think. when the All Blacks won under Razor there
18:34
Speaker 2: and he came in to start and that's his best
18:38
Speaker 2: test performance, certainly starting.
18:39
Speaker 3: That was his last start?
18:41
Speaker 2: For the All Blacks and he nailed the line out
18:44
Speaker 2: and Ireland rate themselves in that capacity, they're probably not
18:47
Speaker 2: at the box level but he really stepped up so
18:50
Speaker 2: he is capable and this is a prime chance for
18:53
Speaker 2: him to show that.
18:54
Speaker 3: It is indeed. The rest of the bench, it was
18:56
Speaker 3: interesting to hear Dave Rennie's explanation on why Anton Leonard-Brown
19:00
Speaker 3: has been given the nod over, say, Rico Iwani or
19:02
Speaker 3: other players that.
19:03
Speaker 2: The drums are really beating there.
19:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, they are. And basically it comes down to work
19:08
Speaker 3: ethic and defence. And credit to Dave Rooney, like, I
19:13
Speaker 3: would have probably gone Rico Iwani, but he explained himself
19:15
Speaker 3: pretty clearly as to why he was of that view.
19:18
Speaker 3: And you can either take it or leave it. But basically,
19:20
Speaker 3: it's down to work ethic, defence. It's agreed that Iwani
19:24
Speaker 3: is the better X-factor player, but the overall package, they
19:27
Speaker 3: prefer what Leonard-Brown brings.
19:29
Speaker 2: He explained himself very well, didn't he? And how refreshing
19:32
Speaker 2: is it to have that honesty from a coach to
19:34
Speaker 2: come out and say, look, yeah, Rico's a freak with
19:37
Speaker 2: the ball in hands, but he can be exposed defensively.
19:41
Speaker 2: And we saw that in his last game against the Lions.
19:45
Speaker 2: Got stepped. It was a big break. And he got
19:48
Speaker 2: two tries in that game. So you've got to be
19:50
Speaker 2: able to do it on.
19:51
Speaker 3: Both sides of the ball.
19:52
Speaker 2: Look, I'm I probably wouldn't be selecting Leonard Brown I
19:56
Speaker 2: understand the defensive perspective but I want your bench to
19:58
Speaker 2: be coming on and delivering impact not I feel like
20:01
Speaker 2: Leonard Brown's a safe bet and his trump card for
20:04
Speaker 2: me was the fact he covered second and centre and
20:06
Speaker 2: you don't need that now with Quinta Pye and Geordie
20:09
Speaker 2: Barrett there you've got that cover so whether it's a
20:13
Speaker 2: Rico Awani or someone else I think there's room for
20:15
Speaker 2: someone to push for that and then a Josh Morby
20:18
Speaker 2: I think we're in agreeance that I don't see him
20:21
Speaker 2: as an out-and-out impact player either. Maybe he will prove
20:24
Speaker 2: us wrong and come on this weekend and come off
20:28
Speaker 2: the line and have a real impact. But I think
20:32
Speaker 2: an Amoni Narawa, even a Fihi potentially, has that more
20:37
Speaker 2: physical impact prototype to them.
20:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree. I think that's the kind of play
20:43
Speaker 3: you want. Broken play late in the game. tied defences
20:48
Speaker 3: to take on, you know, Josh Morby's got great footwork,
20:52
Speaker 3: but I just think a bigger ball runner and a
20:55
Speaker 3: powerful ball runner at that is something you need in
20:58
Speaker 3: that closing stage. I mean, it's hard to argue because
21:00
Speaker 3: the All Blacks have played their best rugby in the
21:02
Speaker 3: latter part of both of these games. So quibbling with
21:05
Speaker 3: the bench. Yeah, but Josh Morby wasn't used last week. Exactly. So, yeah,
21:09
Speaker 3: I would have gone a little bit different this week.
21:11
Speaker 3: Maybe a Fihi, maybe a, yeah, someone like that. that
21:16
Speaker 3: is capable of being that X-factor sort of player.
21:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think they are missing Caleb Clarke because
21:23
Speaker 2: just for a different dynamic in that back three, if
21:25
Speaker 2: you look at Damian McKenzie, Will Jordan, Leroy Carter, they're
21:28
Speaker 2: all small athletes. Will Jordan is very elusive, and to
21:33
Speaker 2: look at the bloke, I still don't know how he
21:35
Speaker 2: beats so many defenders and shakes them off. He's a
21:38
Speaker 2: freak with ball in hand, but I think if you
21:41
Speaker 2: had a Caleb Clarke per se, starting on the left
21:44
Speaker 2: wing and then you bring on Leroy Carter. Leroy Carter's
21:48
Speaker 2: not necessarily a big athlete, but he strikes me as
21:54
Speaker 2: much more of an impact player than the Josh Morgan.
21:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we're still stuck in the era in
21:58
Speaker 3: New Zealand of insurance policies on the bench and who
22:01
Speaker 3: covers what position in worst-case scenarios, where really I think
22:05
Speaker 3: you've got to forget about the worst-case scenario and think, OK,
22:08
Speaker 3: ideal scenario, how do we close out the game from
22:11
Speaker 3: minutes 55 to 80? What does our ideal blueprint look like?
22:15
Speaker 3: How do we accelerate our game plan or continue to
22:20
Speaker 3: bring our game plan to fruition through those closing 20,
22:23
Speaker 3: 25 minutes?
22:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's where Rico's value, I think, rises because he
22:29
Speaker 2: has the centre and wing cover where Lennon Brown's card
22:34
Speaker 2: has dropped in recent times. The only point I would
22:37
Speaker 2: make there is that The box were burnt in Test
22:40
Speaker 2: 1 with their 6-2 Esterhazen hybrid role because they lost
22:46
Speaker 2: a couple of outside backs and that really cost them.
22:48
Speaker 2: So there is inherent risk in not having all your
22:51
Speaker 2: bases covered, but I think Morby was a wasted player
22:55
Speaker 2: on the bench last week.
22:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would have been tempted to go 6-2 potentially
22:59
Speaker 3: this week. Not sure whether Ethan Blackadder is entirely fit.
23:04
Speaker 3: You reported that he was a bit under the weather.
23:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think.
23:06
Speaker 3: I.
23:08
Speaker 2: Think it was something different, but there's been a few
23:11
Speaker 2: All Blacks wearing masks. They've definitely had the flu through
23:14
Speaker 2: their camp throughout this tour, and I don't know whether
23:16
Speaker 2: that was a factor in his non-selection this week, but
23:21
Speaker 2: we've had Luke Jacobson, Jason Ryan told us before last
23:25
Speaker 2: week's game, Ethan DeGroote, I think Ethan Blackadder, so a
23:28
Speaker 2: number of players have have been sick on this tour.
23:31
Speaker 2: Not Susie Stowell like myself.
23:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, no. Susie has resurrected herself and done a
23:36
Speaker 3: number on you. Just on the bench finally, Fahingon Nuku
23:41
Speaker 3: would probably be that ideal player to have on the bench,
23:44
Speaker 3: whether that's in a 6-2 split or whatever it might be,
23:47
Speaker 3: to come on and impact the game in the last 20,
23:50
Speaker 3: 25 minutes.
23:51
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah, he's the trump card that's yet to come back.
23:55
Speaker 2: And that's the prototype, isn't it? Just a guy that
23:57
Speaker 2: you can throw on with tiring bodies, smash through tackles,
24:01
Speaker 2: break the advantage line, float across the field wherever he wants,
24:06
Speaker 2: wherever you need him to be. He feels like a
24:09
Speaker 2: dead cert once he's back fit and firing.
24:12
Speaker 3: Yeah. Just before we wrap up, on the scrums, as
24:15
Speaker 3: we've talked about, being a tit-for-tat this week, Rusty Erasmus
24:21
Speaker 3: exploding at the Saturday media conference post-game. Did it again
24:25
Speaker 3: on Monday, took issue. Dave Rennie today at the media
24:28
Speaker 3: conference for the All Blacks, just dampening it down and
24:30
Speaker 3: not really wanting to give it too much more airtime.
24:33
Speaker 3: But this is all set up for, you know, we've
24:37
Speaker 3: all had our say, the coaches have had their say,
24:39
Speaker 3: but ultimately it's on Nika Amashikele on Saturday afternoon to
24:43
Speaker 3: adjudicate whether the Springboks are walking around or whether the
24:46
Speaker 3: All Blacks are seeing things that aren't there.
24:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. And Nika, he's... he takes a hard
24:56
Speaker 2: line stance generally on most things, whether it's the breakdown
24:59
Speaker 2: or scrum. So it's going to be very intriguing to
25:01
Speaker 2: see his interpretations. I don't see him taking any shit,
25:05
Speaker 2: but I feel like most things are a bit of
25:08
Speaker 2: a lottery with him. I couldn't predict which way it's
25:10
Speaker 2: going to go.
25:11
Speaker 1: Yeah.
25:11
Speaker 3: I find it hard to follow at the best of times. Um,
25:14
Speaker 3: he was the referee when the All Blacks lost to
25:15
Speaker 3: the Springboks last year, 43-10 in the capital. Not the
25:20
Speaker 3: refereeing at fault, but he oversaw that. Um, just to
25:23
Speaker 3: point that out. So the All Blacks have to be
25:26
Speaker 3: buttoned on for this one and make sure they're locked
25:29
Speaker 3: into his interpretations of the game, aren't they?
25:32
Speaker 2: They are, yep. That's going to be intriguing. One final
25:35
Speaker 2: stat for you. The All Blacks have won eight of
25:38
Speaker 2: their last 10 games at altitude. That's Pretoria and Joburg.
25:44
Speaker 2: So Soweto, Ellis Park, Pretoria. And I think, you know,
25:48
Speaker 2: there's so much made of altitude, isn't there, coming here?
25:51
Speaker 2: And you notice it when you're there walking up a
25:53
Speaker 2: few stairs on a treadmill, whatever it might be. But
25:57
Speaker 2: the style of rugby that the All Blacks want to
25:59
Speaker 2: play now and traditionally throughout history as well, it suits them,
26:04
Speaker 2: doesn't it?
26:05
Speaker 3: It does, absolutely, which is why I question the bench,
26:07
Speaker 3: get her back to the bench, because I don't know
26:09
Speaker 3: that that accelerates their game plan in the last 20,
26:12
Speaker 3: 25 minutes. Some players do. Yeah, but I'm not sure...
26:15
Speaker 3: A Takeo... Yeah. Xavier Noumeir, Fabian Holland, Sissiti. The backs,
26:22
Speaker 3: go back to the backs. I don't think that their
26:23
Speaker 3: backs can drive home that advantage at altitude. You know,
26:28
Speaker 3: Morby's a great stepper, and he's got a lot of pace.
26:30
Speaker 3: So maybe jury's out there, because we haven't really seen
26:33
Speaker 3: him off the bench. We didn't see him at all
26:34
Speaker 3: last week.
26:34
Speaker 2: I think, to your point, it's an insurance policy. So
26:37
Speaker 2: if Geordie Barrett-Quinterpie goes down in the 10th minute, Dave
26:42
Speaker 2: really wants a guy that's going to make the tackles.
26:44
Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh, totally. And he's the ideal person for that,
26:46
Speaker 3: Leonard Brown.
26:47
Speaker 2: Same for the back three, I think. Yeah. They're safe options,
26:52
Speaker 2: aren't they?
26:53
Speaker 3: They are. They are indeed. One more thing to finish.
26:56
Speaker 3: No flyover.
26:57
Speaker 2: No flyover. You're pretty hot on this.
27:00
Speaker 3: Oh, just the fun police.
27:01
Speaker 2: You didn't shit your pants last week?
27:05
Speaker 3: No. I thought it was great. I was like, oh, jeez,
27:07
Speaker 3: that's low. But it's a perception thing, isn't it? You
27:11
Speaker 3: look and go, jeepers, is that coming? Oh, no, it's fine.
27:14
Speaker 3: It's 12 metres. It's no problem at all. I thought
27:17
Speaker 3: it was spectacular. I thought it was great. Really disappointed
27:20
Speaker 3: that the fun police have had their say. And I
27:24
Speaker 3: know the South African Civil Aviation Authority is having a
27:26
Speaker 3: look and various other things. But it feels like people
27:30
Speaker 3: have got up in arms in something that is now
27:32
Speaker 3: a tradition and unfortunately won't happen this week.
27:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, it'll be a great shame if... We never
27:39
Speaker 2: saw the flyover again. It was something that was iconic
27:43
Speaker 2: for Alice Park in particular. I think, I don't know,
27:46
Speaker 2: the last two times, three times that the All Blacks
27:50
Speaker 2: have played there, it's very traditional.
27:54
Speaker 3: There's maybe an argument that it's been overdone because it
27:56
Speaker 3: was that special Alice Park thing in 95 and they've
27:58
Speaker 3: resurrected it a couple of times since and now it
28:01
Speaker 3: was going to be at every game in the series.
28:02
Speaker 3: Maybe there's an argument it's overdone. That's probably the argument
28:05
Speaker 3: that you'd go with rather than, oh, yeah, we can't
28:08
Speaker 3: have fun anymore.
28:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, it certainly spooked a few people. It's made worldwide headlines,
28:14
Speaker 2: hasn't it?
28:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, you look through your social media feed and it's
28:17
Speaker 3: in the US, the UK. Finally, prediction-wise, I can't remember
28:23
Speaker 3: what you predicted last week. I've gone box, box. Look,
28:26
Speaker 3: I'm going to stick with the box, actually.
28:28
Speaker 2: Yeah. I just think if you told me at the
28:33
Speaker 2: start of the series, and this is not a knock
28:36
Speaker 2: on them, it's just that I think if you told
28:38
Speaker 2: me at the start of the series that the Obelix
28:41
Speaker 2: would field a team with George Bauer and Sam Derry
28:45
Speaker 2: starting and a couple of others maybe, yeah, I would
28:50
Speaker 2: have been pretty shocked. So it's intriguing how things have
28:53
Speaker 2: played out. I just think the Bucs probably sneak it,
28:59
Speaker 2: but I hope not.
29:00
Speaker 3: Of course. I picked the All Blacks by three for
29:03
Speaker 3: week one, four last week. I'm reverting back to the
29:06
Speaker 3: All Blacks by two this week in Sweden. They haven't
29:09
Speaker 3: lost this head-to-head in Sweden. I think the Boxer beat
29:12
Speaker 3: an Argentina there from memory, although I'd have to check that.
29:15
Speaker 3: But the All Blacks haven't lost there in two games.
29:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, they broke John Schmidt's heart, their infamous in his
29:22
Speaker 2: 100th test in 2010.
29:24
Speaker 3: The He's Got Dag match, yeah.
29:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, amazing Ma Nonu break with the one boot. Perfect start.
29:30
Speaker 2: long ball to Izzy Dagg who got roasted by Steve
29:34
Speaker 2: Hansen in the changing room for not putting the ball
29:36
Speaker 2: down earlier and then the All Blacks blew the box
29:39
Speaker 2: away in 2012 at the same venue interestingly the game's
29:43
Speaker 2: probably not going to sell out this weekend because ticket
29:46
Speaker 2: prices are too high at this stage Likely to still
29:49
Speaker 2: be close to $ 90, 000, but it's $ 94, 000. I think had
29:54
Speaker 2: they priced the ticket prices right, it would have sold
29:57
Speaker 2: out easily.
29:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it sold out twice previously. So, yeah,
30:01
Speaker 3: they'll be kicking themselves that maybe they didn't price this
30:04
Speaker 3: one right because... It's 94,000 people worth of ticket takings
30:09
Speaker 3: that they won't be able to get fully sold out on,
30:12
Speaker 3: but it's still going to be a pretty epic crowd nonetheless.
30:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's going to be a magic occasion and the
30:17
Speaker 2: series decider.
30:18
Speaker 3: Well, that's what you framed it as, so your last
30:21
Speaker 3: game of the series. So, yeah, it's the fight for
30:25
Speaker 3: Liam Napier's heart, really, isn't it?
30:28
Speaker 2: I like that, yeah.
30:29
Speaker 3: Oh, very good. Right, that'll do us for Rugby Direct.
30:32
Speaker 3: We will be back on Sunday. in your podcast feed
30:35
Speaker 3: before we go our separate ways and look forward to
30:40
Speaker 3: that fourth test. But as always, thanks to Mark Kelly
30:42
Speaker 3: for producing, and we are powered by Access Solutions, elevating
30:45
Speaker 3: you and your business too often.
30:50
Speaker 1: For more from Newstalk ZB, listen live, on air, or online,
30:54
Speaker 1: and keep our shows with you wherever you go with
30:57
Speaker 1: our podcasts on iHeartRadio.