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The Road Back from Rock Bottom: Improv, Writing and Vulnerability · No Shrinking Violets Podcast for Women

• 0:05
  Mary: Welcome to No Shrinking Violets.
• 0:07
  Mary: I'm your host, Mary Rothwell, licensed therapist and certified integrative mental health practitioner.
• 0:13
  Mary: I've created a space where we celebrate the intuition and power of women who want to break free from limiting narratives.
• 0:20
  Mary: We'll explore all realms of wellness what it means to take up space unapologetically, and how your essential nature is key to living life on your terms.
• 0:29
  Mary: It's time to own your space, trust your nature and flourish.
• 0:34
  Mary: Let's dive in.
• 0:35
  Mary: Hey, violets, welcome to the show.
• 0:41
  Mary: So I found an unexpected connection with my guest today when I listened to one of her past guest spots on another podcast.
• 0:48
  Mary: She is a fellow improver.
• 0:50
  Mary: I've talked a bit before on the show briefly, about my own experience with improv, where I met one of my past guests, nicole Wabi.
• 0:58
  Mary: I talked to her in episode 17, and that is actually my second most downloaded episode, so if you have not heard it, maybe go back and take a listen.
• 1:08
  Mary: It's one of my favorites, anyway.
• 1:11
  Mary: So back to improv.
• 1:13
  Mary: It was actually one of the best yet most intimidating experiences I've had in my life and I think it offers a lot of life nuggets that I'll talk about with my guests today.
• 1:24
  Mary: It's totally unscripted.
• 1:25
  Mary: You get a one-word suggestion from the audience and you build a first monologue, then random scenes from the themes in the monologue.
• 1:33
  Mary: You don't always know who will be on stage with you.
• 1:36
  Mary: You have to be open to whatever happens, be willing to follow the lead of your scene mates, even if it means abandoning your own ideas.
• 1:44
  Mary: You have to be 100% in the moment and you can't worry about what you look like to strangers on stage.
• 1:52
  Mary: There's no professional makeup artist, no practice lines, no predictable story, no choreographed marks to hit.
• 2:00
  Mary: I found myself screaming, dancing and even singing in scenes Spur of the moment.
• 2:06
  Mary: No time to worry about whether I looked a little bit ridiculous.
• 2:10
  Mary: You have to be all in for like 22 minutes.
• 2:13
  Mary: I need to be totally there for both my fellow improvers and the audience, who, amazingly, paid to watch me make shit up.
• 2:22
  Mary: Does it always go well?
• 2:25
  Mary: Nope, is the audience usually supportive even when it doesn't?
• 2:29
  Mary: Yeah, almost always, because in improv as in life, we are almost always harsher critics than the people in our audience, real or imagined.
• 2:41
  Mary: Okay, so my guest today, angie Hawkins, knows a lot about living as the real person behind the smiles and reels on social media that make us look like our lives are amazing, like the part of improv that many people misinterpret.
• 2:55
  Mary: You should always say yes and pretend everything is okay.
• 2:58
  Mary: Angie reached a point where she discovered that wasn't really living a healthy life.
• 3:03
  Mary: In improv, you say yes to the process, you go with the flow, but you don't pretend it's okay.
• 3:10
  Mary: You actually react authentically.
• 3:12
  Mary: And when we can do that, when we let go and call out the most insane moments of our lives, that's where the release is.
• 3:20
  Mary: And in improv, that's where the laughter is.
• 3:24
  Mary: Angie Hawkins is an inner glow coach, speaker and the author of Running in Slippers, a title that I love.
• 3:30
  Mary: It's a raw and vulnerable memoir about dropping the social masks and social media facades to connect through vulnerability.
• 3:38
  Mary: I'm going to ask her to share when she hit rock bottom, what led up to that and how she made it through, and we're going to talk about what she learned on the other side radical self-love, truth-telling and the courage to stop living for external approval and start living for herself.
• 3:54
  Mary: And, as you know, if you've listened to even one of my episodes, that is the very fabric of my message.
• 4:01
  Mary: Now Angie does the work that covers so many other themes in this podcast.
• 4:06
  Mary: She helps women stop people-pleasing, set boundaries without guilt and reclaim their inner light.
• 4:12
  Mary: Her coaching program Shine From the Inside is all about turning insecurity into courage and reclaiming your joy from the inside out.
• 4:21
  Mary: Welcome to no Shrinking Violets, angie.
• 4:24
  Angie: Hi Mary, Thank you for having me.
• 4:27
  Mary: I'm very much looking forward to our conversation because I think there's so much we can talk about.
• 4:31
  Mary: But I know you had some pretty hard things happen, so can you give us sort of an overview of what that rock bottom looked like and how you made your way through it?
• 4:41
  Angie: Yes, so, like many people through it.
• 4:51
  Angie: Yes, so, like many people, my issues, so to speak, started in my childhood.
• 4:52
  Angie: I grew up in a home that the way I would describe it as an adult was that it was emotionally neglectful.
• 4:57
  Angie: My parents took care of, you know, food, shelter, clothing, all the basic necessities, but I wouldn't say that I was emotionally tended to.
• 5:07
  Angie: So as a child, you know, as an adult, I can logically look at the situation and understand it, but as a child I interpreted that as I didn't deserve to be loved.
• 5:19
  Angie: So that was my internal belief growing up and for most of my life.
• 5:23
  Angie: And, as most of us know, your internal beliefs dictate your behaviors, which dictate what you bring into your life.
• 5:32
  Angie: So, needless to say, the way I lived my life for 40 years was a struggle, because I was always chasing, I was trying to earn love and approval.
• 5:45
  Angie: I overachieved at jobs that didn't respect me because I thought that that is what I deserved.
• 5:52
  Angie: I didn't think I deserved respect, I didn't think I deserved love.
• 5:56
  Angie: And I did reach a point in my 30s where I knew it wasn't working.
• 6:02
  Angie: I knew I wasn't happy and fulfilled, but I wasn't really sure why.
• 6:06
  Angie: So there were some half-hearted attempts to heal.
• 6:10
  Angie: I started doing yoga, I started doing more spiritual practices, which were well-intentioned, but the problem with just doing those things alone is it's still reaching for something outside of yourself.
• 6:24
  Angie: Things alone, as it's still reaching for something outside of yourself.
• 6:29
  Angie: And then, where things really started to escalate in 2017, my dad passed away and I had spent, and I was 37.
• 6:34
  Angie: So I had spent 37 years like stuffing my emotions, numbing my emotions, not really feeling my feelings, and for the first time, I was actually faced with feeling my feelings and I couldn't handle it.
• 6:47
  Angie: I I went through this period of really profound grief and also, that was at this he passed away shortly after a breakup, so I was dealing with two very hard things at the same time, and so, as part of this, I did start doing some soul searching.
• 7:03
  Angie: I'm like, ok, I'm not happy, what can I do to improve my life?
• 7:07
  Angie: And I was living in Chicago.
• 7:09
  Angie: I decided to move to Hawaii, which, again, I think, was well-intentioned in the sense that I was trying to do more and be happy, but again, it was reaching for something outside of myself.
• 7:22
  Angie: I was reaching for a location to make me happier.
• 7:25
  Angie: I wasn't looking within.
• 7:27
  Angie: So, as you can imagine.
• 7:29
  Angie: I got to Hawaii and I'm still, you know, repeating the same patterns and behaviors, and the reality of living here just wasn't matching up to what I was expecting Because, again, I was putting the pressure on living here to being the thing that made me happy.
• 7:45
  Angie: But when I moved here, I was very fortunate because this was in 2018, before remote work was the trendy thing to do.
• 7:51
  Angie: I was very fortunate because my job let me move here and still keep my job.
• 7:56
  Angie: However, there was a huge management shakeup at my job and for the first year that I lived here, I lived in constant fear of getting laid off, and again, this was at a time where remote work was not trendy, so I felt like if I lost my job, that would be devastating.
• 8:13
  Angie: I had a really hard time making friends when I first moved here, which anyone who's ever gone through that experience knows that it's lonely and isolating.
• 8:22
  Angie: So, adding to the fact that I'm 4,000 miles away from my existing friends in Chicago made it even worse.
• 8:29
  Angie: Another thing that happened is that, to prove how committed I was to this decision, I bought a condo immediately when I moved here and I was so proud of myself, but then, a month after, I closed a shared pipe because I live in a building, so a shared pipe in the building backflowed into my bathroom sink and I wasn't home, so my entire condo flooded, which that would be stressful anyway, right.
• 8:54
  Angie: But like on top of all these other things, and there was like a two year period where it was just like situation after situation, like my grandma died, I did make some friends but then one of them ended up being very toxic, so it was just like a lot of stressful things after another.
• 9:11
  Angie: And then COVID happened, which I don't have to describe how stressful that is.
• 9:16
  Angie: But then during COVID, there was like a light at the end of the tunnel for me, because I met someone and I got into a romantic relationship with him and it was going well for six months and then he totally betrayed me because he had lied about something, and that was the straw that broke the camel's back for me, because I just had reached a point that I could not take it anymore, because it was like a lifetime of this exhaustion and overgiving.
• 9:47
  Angie: And then I had like these acute situations that kept happening and a human being can only take so much, so I actually attempted to take my own life and I was unconscious for a day and a half in my bathroom, I somehow managed to text a friend I don't remember doing this and I spent another day and a half in the hospital.
• 10:09
  Angie: And when I got out of the hospital you know because I was out of pocket for three days I turned on my phone.
• 10:15
  Angie: I had a bunch of texts and one friend was especially concerned because I was supposed to go.
• 10:20
  Angie: She was having a workshop.
• 10:21
  Angie: I didn't show up and she was texting me Are you okay?
• 10:24
  Angie: And I obviously wasn't.
• 10:26
  Angie: So I got home and I called her.
• 10:29
  Angie: I told her everything that happened and I ended with saying I can't believe I didn't die and her response was it's not your time and it was a cold chill ran through my body and in that moment I knew I had a purpose and I was determined to figure out what it was.
• 10:48
  Angie: And, long story short, that's how, what led to the book and my whole career path change and everything.
• 10:53
  Angie: Wow, yeah, that's a lot.
• 10:57
  Angie: That's a lot.
• 10:58
  Mary: Well, and I do think and I've said this before, I think life it starts.
• 11:03
  Mary: It'll tap you on the shoulder and then, if you're not getting it, it like gets louder and louder.
• 11:09
  Angie: Absolutely.
• 11:09
  Angie: Like I had to be punched in the face because I wasn't listening, like, if you read my book, it's like again.
• 11:16
  Angie: Like the lessons kept repeating and I was learning a little bit, but not enough.
• 11:21
  Angie: Yeah, and it took that and again.
• 11:21
  Angie: So after I got out of the hospital, I was like, okay, I need help.
• 11:23
  Angie: And it took that and again.
• 11:23
  Angie: So after I got out of the hospital, I was like, okay, I need help, and traditional therapy had never worked for me.
• 11:29
  Angie: So I decided to invest in a coach and he's the one who taught me like, like.
• 11:36
  Angie: Basically he didn't describe it as like, okay, I'm going to teach you how to love yourself, but he taught me how to behave in a way that was self-respecting and self-trusting.
• 11:48
  Angie: And then that in turn, changed my internal belief Like I do deserve to be loved, I do deserve to be respected.
• 11:55
  Angie: So and that was the first time in my life that I had actually done the inner work- yeah, yeah.
• 12:02
  Angie: So that's a lot to come back from that's a lot to work through, and that's why I like to because I don't necessarily like to, because this is my darkest moment of my entire life.
• 12:14
  Angie: So it's not that I enjoy talking about it, but I like talking about it because if I were to go into all of the details of my story, there are many points where you can tell I'm not going down the right road.
• 12:28
  Angie: But yet I wasn't willing to do anything about it, or I didn't know what to do about it, cause I think I already mentioned in my shorter version of the story like I knew I wasn't happy.
• 12:38
  Angie: I knew I wasn't fulfilled, but I didn't know how to change it.
• 12:40
  Angie: So I tell my story because first of all, I had to hit rock bottom, which is not pleasant, and then coming out of that takes way more time and effort than if you don't hit rock bottom.
• 12:52
  Angie: So I like to spread the message.
• 12:54
  Angie: So it's like, if you know that you're going down this path, stop it now, so that it's way easier.
• 12:59
  Angie: Don't do what I did.
• 13:01
  Mary: Yeah, well, and I love hearing the stories too, because I feel like you are in a way different place now.
• 13:09
  Mary: Oh yeah, yeah.
• 13:11
  Mary: So I think sometimes, when people hear things, it's like what?
• 13:15
  Mary: That's a lot of stuff, and then, as you talk about how you come through it, I think it's very hopeful.
• 13:24
  Angie: Yes, and that's my hope, because I think people see me now and they think like I'm all confident and I have it all easy.
• 13:30
  Angie: And it's like you have no idea.
• 13:33
  Angie: Even a few years ago I was a different person, and that's another thing.
• 13:37
  Angie: I wrote my book.
• 13:38
  Angie: I'm so happy with the timing of everything, because I wrote my book when I was still coming out of the trenches.
• 13:44
  Angie: And I have people.
• 13:52
  Angie: They read the book and they'll reach out to me like almost as if I'm still that person and they're like oh, I'm so sorry, Like things will get better, blah, blah, blah.
• 13:57
  Angie: And in my mind I'm like yeah, I know, because I'm like on the other side, because they haven't really seen the aftermath.
• 14:04
  Mary: Yeah, well, okay.
• 14:05
  Mary: So before we started, before I hit record, we were talking about our experience with improv and I think you took writing classes right at Second City in Chicago.
• 14:15
  Angie: Yes.
• 14:16
  Mary: And you did some improv right.
• 14:18
  Angie: Correct.
• 14:19
  Mary: So the one thing you just said struck me, because you know, of course you just heard my intro when you said people might think now either you're still that person or now everything's fine.
• 14:30
  Mary: And that makes me think about being on the improv stage, because people will tell me later like, oh my gosh, that was so good.
• 14:38
  Mary: And I'm like you have no idea what I felt like inside, like I wanted to vomit.
• 14:42
  Mary: So I think improv is such a great lesson for life.
• 14:47
  Angie: Yes, and I actually loved your introduction and how you described improv because you're absolutely right.
• 14:54
  Angie: Like when you're viewing it, it looks fun and funny and there definitely is an aspect that is but there is a lot of nerves and anxiousness and self-doubt behind the scenes.
• 15:06
  Angie: Even I've heard people who are amazing at improv.
• 15:11
  Angie: They'll even say like that they get nervous or I couldn't think of what to say, and you don't even see all that happening because it looks so flawless when they're performing.
• 15:20
  Mary: Yeah, yeah, and I think too, it's like I know that feeling of sort of scrambling, like you're trying to be very present because you have to be hearing.
• 15:29
  Mary: I mean the tendency is, let's think about what that you know.
• 15:34
  Mary: You can't be thinking about what's coming next.
• 15:48
  Mary: It's you know.
• 15:49
  Mary: And also all of that happening inside.
• 15:52
  Mary: People don't see that.
• 15:54
  Mary: They see the surface and think, oh, it must be easy, or she makes it look easy that look easy, yeah, and I always struggled with.
• 16:11
  Angie: I would say, um, a lot, or like I would do something to buy time, but then at one point a teacher called me out on it and I didn't have, didn't have anything to buy me more time, which actually increased my anxiety inside.
• 16:22
  Angie: But again it's like these are things that are going on behind the scene.
• 16:25
  Angie: And also I remember I had a lot of shame around improv and first of all, it was at a time I'm I wouldn't say I like it now or I'm totally comfortable with it, but I used to hate allowing myself to be seen.
• 16:43
  Angie: I'm a lot more comfortable with it now.
• 16:45
  Angie: I still can be anxious or in a state like that, it's even harder to think of something off the cuff.
• 17:12
  Angie: So and that adds to the anxiety spiral.
• 17:14
  Angie: But again, there were times yeah, there were times I would struggle and people could see that.
• 17:18
  Angie: But there were other times where people were like, oh yeah, that was funny, that was good and it's like.
• 17:22
  Angie: All I could remember was the anxiety and fear behind it.
• 17:26
  Mary: Yeah, well, and I the audience in at least where I took the improv classes I felt like the audience was very accepting and they would laugh.
• 17:36
  Mary: Sometimes they would laugh at things even when I was sitting in the audience.
• 17:40
  Mary: That I'm thinking you thought that was funny, but they were.
• 17:42
  Mary: They were very, very supportive.
• 17:44
  Mary: And I think it's also a lesson for us in that when we think people are looking at our lives, that they're much more judgy than they really are, that they're seeing it different than we're experiencing it, and that's another good point about it, because not even you're correct.
• 18:02
  Angie: The audience is usually extremely supportive.
• 18:05
  Angie: But not only that, but your fellow players are also extremely supportive, like if they see you struggling, they might step in, and it's which again like there's so many transferable skills for life.
• 18:19
  Mary: Yeah, well, and it's funny too, because I remember in our so I had a great group in Improv One and we it was a huge group very supportive but we didn't.
• 18:31
  Mary: It was I don't know if this is always the case, but there wasn't a lot of sort of molding us.
• 18:36
  Mary: It was giving us the broad strokes of you say yes and and you build on that and those kinds of things.
• 18:42
  Mary: And I remember in level two we deconstructed it and we looked at the structure behind what are you supposed to do to build a scene?
• 18:52
  Mary: And everybody was like knocked back on their heels Like wait a minute, I don't know how to do this.
• 18:58
  Mary: And it makes me think of like your situation with the coaching, like we sort of fumble through and stuff works, but then somebody gives us a framework and it's like, oh, this is so much more effective, because now I'm understanding why I'm doing these things and how I can respond in a different way.
• 19:18
  Angie: Yeah, and it also makes me wonder.
• 19:20
  Angie: I feel like improv should be taught in schools or something, because when I was working with my coach, basically his whole philosophy is doing the inner work to learn how to be a functional adult, because usually we're regressing to either being a child or a teenager and sometimes I'm.
• 19:41
  Angie: I would feel so ridiculous because it's like I'm in my 40s and I'm just now learning how to be an adult.
• 19:51
  Mary: Yeah, well, I think you were being an adult, but I think it's.
• 19:56
  Mary: We only know what we know.
• 19:57
  Angie: Right.
• 19:58
  Mary: And then there's a more effective way, and I did want to put an asterisk here.
• 20:02
  Mary: I like that you were able to say you know you tried therapy care.
• 20:08
  Mary: I like that you were able to say you know you tried therapy.
• 20:09
  Mary: And I bring up this theme kind of often because as a therapist and a coach, I want people to know that it's okay to say to a therapist, to your own therapist, this is not working.
• 20:16
  Mary: And if you have a certified coach with the right training, sometimes that much more structured way of dissecting things and kind of learning a different way can be really effective.
• 20:31
  Angie: Yeah, because I think my issue with therapy and I might have been going to the wrong therapist, but again, I didn't know how to choose a therapist.
• 20:39
  Angie: But the few times that I did try to go to therapy, it was just me talking and them just basically nodding their head or maybe asking some questions.
• 20:50
  Angie: And I remember one therapist that I went to.
• 20:53
  Angie: I voiced my frustration with that, like cause I had been going to her for several months and my insurance didn't cover much, so I was paying, I think, like $150 each time I saw her and I was going, I think, weekly at one at the beginning.
• 21:08
  Angie: And you know, I, after like three months, I was like I need help and so far I've just been talking and you've just been nodding your head and I need advice or something.
• 21:22
  Angie: And she was like her response was basically like basically like well, I'm still gathering information, and it just felt like a scam to me and maybe it was because I was like I can't afford to just sit here and talk.
• 21:35
  Angie: I can talk to a friend for free, and whereas with my coach, like he would, actually he would explain things in a way that made sense.
• 21:43
  Angie: It wasn wasn't just me talking, he would explain things in a way that made sense.
• 21:47
  Angie: But the most valuable part of coaching for me is that every single session he would give me homework that I had to action on.
• 21:55
  Angie: And sometimes it was like scary things, like you have to set this boundary or something like that, but other times it was like just maybe a lesson in self awareness, like just start being aware of when you're behaving this way or finding yourself in a pattern.
• 22:10
  Angie: But regardless if it was difficult or not, I found that aspect to be extremely helpful.
• 22:17
  Mary: Yeah, a lot of therapists are not trained in being directed.
• 22:20
  Mary: When I was trained, like decades ago, it was sort of that thing like you listen and absorb and reflect, and then my first job was with high school students.
• 22:30
  Mary: I'm like I can't just sit here and reflect, like I need to do some education and you know, kind of putting a framework on it.
• 22:37
  Mary: So I just wanted to kind of touch on that a little bit, because I like to bring that theme in when I can, when people have had the experiences, because you're not failing.
• 22:47
  Mary: If you go to therapy and you're like, why am I not getting better?
• 22:50
  Mary: It's not you, it's the process.
• 22:53
  Angie: Yeah, or there may be therapists who do more of what coaches do, but again, I didn't know how to research that or what any of that meant.
• 23:03
  Mary: No, Okay, so I'm going to take a little side road because I know part of what brought about your book was like social media stuff.
• 23:11
  Angie: Yes.
• 23:12
  Mary: So here's where I am with this and I want to talk about it a little bit.
• 23:15
  Mary: So I think social media is a little bit poisonous.
• 23:19
  Mary: I think it's where our brains aren't meant to consume that information in that way and I think at least for me I feel unsettled if I'm on there too long.
• 23:31
  Mary: I also feel like we're sort of changing a bit in how much we tolerate it.
• 23:36
  Mary: We're still doing it.
• 23:38
  Mary: It's almost like an addiction, but we don't like it so we're trying to back away from it.
• 23:42
  Mary: So what brought up like?
• 23:44
  Mary: I think I don't know much about what the impetus was with social media and what you wrote about.
• 23:52
  Mary: So talk a little bit about where you think we are with this process of whole of using social media and being so visible.
• 24:01
  Angie: I don't remember the exact moment, but I do remember, around the time my dad passed away, I again, I was in this period of profound grief and I remember after about three months, it was like people just expected me to be over it and I wasn't, and like that was unsettling to me and I remember I.
• 24:30
  Angie: So this is 2017 and social media is different now, because now I see accounts like solely dedicated to grief, whereas, like back then, I was like desperately searching for grief and anything on Google or even in books was like there's like a what is it?
• 24:49
  Angie: The five steps or the five stages of grief?
• 24:51
  Angie: Oh yeah, I don't even remember and I remember I bought a book on that, but the book didn't explain that it's not linear.
• 24:59
  Angie: So, because I wasn't following the five stages exactly, it was confusing.
• 25:04
  Angie: Um, but I feel like that's when I really first started seeing the disconnect between real life and Instagram, because I was like basic, I felt like I was in this other reality because I was so depressed, I was so sad, and then I would turn on Instagram and everybody is living their best life and everyone's life seemed to be perfect.
• 25:28
  Angie: And I remember thinking like it was confusing because it's like, are they really that happy?
• 25:34
  Angie: Like is something wrong with me, which, like, added to my grief, probably.
• 25:38
  Angie: But and that was around the time I was actually really fortunate I signed up the sketch comedy writing program that I took at Second City Chicago.
• 25:48
  Angie: I miraculously signed up for that before my dad died and it actually was super therapeutic for my grief.
• 25:59
  Angie: And again, it's kind of weird to think about in hindsight because back then I was not confident, I was not outgoing.
• 26:06
  Angie: The only reason I signed up for this class is because I had an idea for a writing blog, because I was an avid writer as a child and all through high school and then I went to college and studied finance and stopped writing.
• 26:17
  Angie: But then, as an adult, I had an idea for this writing blog, but I was too scared to put myself out there because I wasn't confident in my writing abilities.
• 26:26
  Angie: So I was like I need to take a writing class, and the only writing class I could find that fit my schedule was the sketch comedy writing class, which I was at the time.
• 26:36
  Angie: Now I would sign up for a sketch comedy writing class in a heartbeat, but at that time I was terrified.
• 26:41
  Angie: I'm like what the hell am I doing?
• 26:43
  Angie: But it was so much fun because not only would we write things, we would act out each other's scenes, because our homework would be to write a scene and we'd act out each other's scenes, which is how I started taking improv classes.
• 26:56
  Angie: But anyway, just the whole writing thing was so therapeutic for me and helped me get through grief.
• 27:03
  Angie: But that writing class lit the writing, because we're all like born with this light inside of us and, like as a child, my thing that lit me up was writing and I had stopped doing that.
• 27:17
  Angie: So when I started writing again, that just like lit me up so much and I was like I want to start writing again, and also at Second City, because I went through the whole sketch comedy writing program, the whole thing, if you, because you have to get accepted to the higher levels, which I did and most people in my class did but once you're accepted into that, your class is writing and producing a show that gets performed on the Second City stage and that takes an entire year.
• 27:43
  Angie: But then, after that is done or was done, I was like I love writing, I want to do more.
• 27:49
  Angie: So I took it was like a memoir writing class at Second City and I took that and some of the pieces that I wrote it was about like some of the hard times in my life and it really resonated with my classmates and that was the first time that I realized, okay, people are going, other people go through hard things too, because, again, even in real life, we're all putting on our happy faces and pretending everything is fine.
• 28:18
  Angie: So that was my first real realization like, oh, this is relatable because other people go through hard things.
• 28:26
  Angie: So I had my idea for my book running in slippers.
• 28:29
  Angie: I was like I can write a memoir about all these hard things that are going on in my life, you know, and it's basically breaking out of this whole social media facade.
• 28:38
  Angie: But again, at that time I was terrified of allowing myself to be seen.
• 28:43
  Angie: I didn't believe in my writing abilities, like, basically, my self-worth was really low at that point, so it was just an idea that I had that never put into action.
• 28:52
  Angie: But anyway, that was a long answer to your question about, like, when did I first start seeing the disconnect between social media and real life?
• 29:00
  Mary: Yeah, yeah, it's.
• 29:02
  Mary: I think it's gotten a little better, but you're right Agreed In the beginning it was everybody, it was only.
• 29:09
  Mary: My life is amazing.
• 29:12
  Angie: Yes.
• 29:13
  Mary: And you know it's disconcerting and I think you know, having worked with college students, they would know and I don't, I've never done, I can't think of it right now the one where it's it shows up.
• 29:27
  Mary: You do a streak, it shows up and then it disappears.
• 29:29
  Mary: Oh, snapchat, yeah, see how old I am.
• 29:33
  Mary: I'm like I can't even think of the name.
• 29:34
  Mary: But it would be demoralizing for them because they would see, like these people doing these things or somebody you know.
• 29:42
  Mary: It was also hard because I think you can track what people are doing.
• 29:47
  Mary: They started to build in so many things to it.
• 29:50
  Angie: That's kind of weird.
• 29:51
  Mary: Yeah, it let people feel like they were not part of things in one more way.
• 29:57
  Mary: We can feel that way in real life sometimes and this is now we socially, yeah, but anyway, and I think now we've sort of overcorrected.
• 30:07
  Mary: Now we see a lot of people at their worst moments, or one of my things people go to TikTok or you know those kinds of things to get mental health information and I'm like it's great to like look for it, but be careful what you are ascribing to great to like look for it, but be careful what you are ascribing to.
• 30:31
  Angie: Yeah, you're so right, or like.
• 30:36
  Angie: Also, I feel like the when people try to portray their bad moments and I'm not minimizing that they probably are going through a bad situation, but I almost feel like sometimes it's performative for social media.
• 30:46
  Angie: You know what I mean.
• 30:47
  Angie: So even that is not really authentic.
• 30:50
  Mary: It's not authentic and I worry about the comments.
• 30:53
  Mary: I mean, even if somebody is truly struggling, then you have people that are the cruelty, I think, is what is difficult.
• 31:01
  Mary: So we're mired in all of these kind of issues with social media.
• 31:05
  Mary: That really can make things feel worse.
• 31:09
  Angie: Agree, and that's another good point, because I remember I used to love Instagram because, first of all, like back in 2017, and I remember 2017 Instagram period because I actually did start my writing blog and I started an Instagram account to support that writing blog and I actually grew that account to like 7,000 followers pretty organically and it was like but that was back in a day when Instagram was so positive, like you never saw negative comments.
• 31:43
  Angie: I don't think there were stories at that time and I don't think there were videos, it was just pictures, so you really had to express yourself in the caption or even in the like one picture.
• 31:55
  Angie: But now it's just like all over the place and there's so many opportunities to be criticized and negative and there's just so many ways that the content can go where.
• 32:08
  Angie: I think before people were just truly trying to be positive and spread good information and I don't know how it got to where it is now.
• 32:16
  Angie: I think it's all the extra features really.
• 32:19
  Mary: Yeah, yeah, and just people finding it and monetizing it and using it.
• 32:23
  Mary: You know we take things that are good and we often sort of bend them into uses that are not the best.
• 32:30
  Mary: So okay, question for you to ponder, because I have not read your book.
• 32:36
  Mary: I've read sort of the description of it and you've talked a little bit about it.
• 32:40
  Mary: But if you could go back to yourself I don't know however many years ago five years, 10 years and you could take one chapter and say to your younger self I want you to read this chapter because it's going to whatever give you hope, get you through this.
• 32:57
  Mary: What is one section of your book that you feel would have been most impactful to that person that you were?
• 33:06
  Angie: That's a good question, cause I actually started.
• 33:09
  Angie: Actually, I'll answer the question first and then I'll say what I was going to say.
• 33:13
  Angie: So my book doesn't really cover a lot of the aftermath.
• 33:18
  Angie: I'm writing a second book that does, because that one thing I regret about my book is that I don't think it totally does inspire hope.
• 33:27
  Angie: There is a little bit of the aftermath, but I do because of but again, I wrote it at a time where I was still coming out of the struggle, whereas now that I'm on the other side, it's like I want people to see, even if they unfortunately do have to go to rock bottom there is hope, I think.
• 33:44
  Angie: Ultimately, my answer is I think I had to go through what I had to go through to learn what I did.
• 33:49
  Angie: So I don't think I would have changed anything or given myself any kind of warning, because then that would have totally changed the trajectory of like the decisions I was making.
• 33:59
  Angie: If that makes sense and I know that may sound weird, but and the reason I was going to say another story is I actually just started taking a public speaking class.
• 34:09
  Angie: It's kind of like Toastmasters.
• 34:11
  Angie: It's like the same concept as Toastmasters, except it's not as like if anyone's gone to Toastmasters, it's like very rigid and controlling.
• 34:19
  Angie: So this is like a looser group.
• 34:21
  Angie: But anyway, one of the questions we do like these open question and answer things just to get comfortable speaking in front of each other.
• 34:28
  Angie: But someone was asked, like if you could go back and change one year of your life, what would you change?
• 34:33
  Angie: And it wasn't my question, but I thought about it and I was like I don't think I would change anything because I like I'm kind of woo, woo.
• 34:40
  Angie: I'm like I believe, like we're meant to walk a certain path and we are where we're meant to be.
• 34:45
  Angie: So I don't think I would change anything.
• 34:47
  Angie: Because it's like back to the future, like you go back and make one little mistake and it changes the whole trajectory of the future.
• 34:55
  Mary: Yeah.
• 34:56
  Angie: Sometimes good, sometimes bad, but I believe in divine timing and all of that.
• 35:00
  Angie: So I don't think I I would probably just give my.
• 35:04
  Angie: If I could go back in time and meet myself, I'd probably just give myself a hug.
• 35:07
  Angie: I wouldn't tell any cautionary tales or anything.
• 35:11
  Mary: Yeah Well, and the one thing I want to bring up, because this is where our perception of ourself can be very different than others' perceptions.
• 35:18
  Mary: So for people who don't know, second City is kind of a big deal, like it was founded by, like what Amy Poehler, like big names in SNL.
• 35:27
  Angie: Oh no, it goes even further back, like Dan Aykroyd.
• 35:30
  Angie: I mean it's very rooted in SNL culture, yeah.
• 35:36
  Mary: Yeah, so your success with that.
• 35:38
  Mary: I mean SNL culture yeah yeah, so your success with that.
• 35:41
  Mary: I mean you know you can, when you talk about I did this and then you have to sort of you know, apply to get into the next level and you did all that.
• 35:45
  Mary: That's really an amazing thing that I don't know, that everybody knows.
• 35:50
  Mary: So, as you are doing this great thing and at the same time, really struggling at times, right and looking for like even after all, that you're like I'm going to go to Hawaii and I'm thinking, oh my God, like you had so many amazing things happening for you, but sometimes we can't see that.
• 36:08
  Angie: Yeah, and my struggle was in silence because even after I moved to Hawaii because I'm guilty of the social media facade to a little bit I try to be as authentic as possible.
• 36:22
  Angie: But after I moved to Hawaii, you know it's beautiful here so I would post pictures of me hiking or surfing, and my job at the time I worked in finance, so it's like I'm not going to post pictures of spreadsheets because that's boring.
• 36:37
  Angie: So I felt like I was genuinely being authentic, like this is what I do on my free time.
• 36:43
  Angie: I had people who honestly thought that I had retired and moved to Hawaii.
• 36:50
  Angie: They thought I was like living my best life.
• 36:53
  Angie: I actually took improv classes here because, like I said earlier, I really struggled to make friends.
• 36:59
  Angie: So I took improv classes here to make friends.
• 37:01
  Angie: By the way, if anyone does need to make friends, I think improv classes are like an amazing way because you will meet like the best and funniest people you will ever meet in an improv class.
• 37:13
  Angie: But and you know so I would post pictures with them.
• 37:17
  Angie: But even though I was taking the classes and I was spending time with these people, it took time to build those relationships, so I didn't feel like I was connected to that community.
• 37:31
  Angie: At the beginning, hey, I'm struggling, I don't think people are going to know because and even now on my Instagram, my whole theme of my Instagram is Instagram versus reality.
• 37:47
  Angie: So I post the picture but then I say the backstory.
• 37:50
  Angie: So it's like, hey, I'm going through this hard time.
• 37:53
  Angie: Sometimes it may be a happy story, but it's just expanding upon like this is what you see, but this is what's really going on.
• 38:00
  Angie: But even in trying to be as authentic as possible, people still misunderstand what's going on in my life.
• 38:07
  Angie: So I think, unless you're just completely blunt and straightforward about it, people aren't going to know.
• 38:13
  Angie: And that's another thing I've learned.
• 38:16
  Angie: I also have the accountability.
• 38:18
  Angie: Like if I'm struggling, it's also on me to let people know if I want that support, cause I actually I was just talking to someone about this the other day.
• 38:26
  Angie: I think it was after my suicide attempt.
• 38:29
  Angie: I was talking to my manager at work Cause I kind of just unloaded about him about some of my frustrations and he even said to me he's like you know, you deal with things in isolation and then you don't speak up until it gets really bad.
• 38:46
  Angie: He's like I need you to come to me when you start getting frustrated, and he was the first person who actually verbalized that to me, cause I didn't.
• 38:52
  Angie: I wasn't even self-aware enough to realize, even though it may seem obvious, I didn't realize that I was self-isolating and that I could come to him earlier.
• 39:01
  Angie: So, even having that self-awareness like I, can ask for help and support.
• 39:06
  Angie: I don't have to pretend that everything's fine, even when it's not.
• 39:10
  Mary: Yeah, I think you were good at it and I think sometimes we learn as kids how to survive.
• 39:17
  Mary: And sometimes looking okay is part of survival.
• 39:21
  Mary: And then invariably what I see and I'll tell you it was part of my experience too Part of me would be like, why can't people see like I need something, like help me?
• 39:31
  Mary: They're not.
• 39:31
  Mary: And then I got to a point where I'm like, well, wait a second, like you're not telling them you are giving every illusion that everything is fine.
• 39:40
  Mary: It's not their fault that they don't know.
• 39:43
  Angie: Yeah, that's so relatable because that I still catch myself thinking that like how do they not know?
• 39:50
  Angie: And it's like well, because I didn't tell them.
• 39:52
  Mary: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:53
  Mary: And I think that's something where, especially if, if, as a child, there wasn't someone that was going to help, it was like why would I even ask for help?
• 40:03
  Mary: I'm safer and stronger if I just take care of myself, right.
• 40:07
  Mary: And then you get to a point it's like wait a minute, as an adult, this isn't working.
• 40:11
  Mary: So there's actually people there that will help me if I reach out and let them know, like, here's what I or you don't even have to know what you need.
• 40:19
  Mary: I think it's important for people to know you don't have to go and that goes back to sort of the therapy.
• 40:25
  Mary: You don't have to walk in and say, here's what I need help with.
• 40:27
  Mary: It's like I have no idea what's going on, but my life sucks right now, yeah, yeah.
• 40:33
  Mary: So so I think that part of it is that sometimes, when you're so good at it because I think if somebody might have looked at the surface of your life and the things you were doing, it's like wow, like she's really rocking life and everything is great, and that's not the case all the time.
• 40:49
  Angie: Yeah, because I had mentioned like after my dad died, after about three months, everyone expected me to be OK.
• 40:55
  Angie: There is an aspect I still firmly believe that we live in a just get over it society, but another aspect was I wasn't letting people know that I still wasn't okay.
• 41:07
  Mary: Yeah, yeah, and it's so complicated with grief because people think if I bring it up, I'm going to remind her, and it's like you're not going to remind me because it's like there all the time I know.
• 41:18
  Mary: So that authenticness I think too as the other side of it for people to be able to say like hey, how are you?
• 41:23
  Mary: Like is everything, is there anything I can do, or how?
• 41:27
  Angie: about.
• 41:28
  Mary: I mean, I think even sometimes when you know somebody is struggling to actually say I'm going to bring pizza over tomorrow night, if that's okay, because sometimes when we don't know what we want and people say, well, I asked her to let me know if she needed anything, if you're not comfortable saying here's what I need, you're not going to do it.
• 41:46
  Angie: That's a really good point.
• 41:47
  Angie: I don't think I've had the chance to really implement that, but I did hear that at one point.
• 41:52
  Angie: Because you're right, if you ask someone, first of all, when you're kind of just stuck in that tunnel vision, you're not even thinking about what you need, let alone you don't have the capacity.
• 42:03
  Angie: Even if someone asks you that question, you don't have the capacity to like really think about it, and even if you do, you may not even know what you need.
• 42:10
  Angie: So yeah, yeah.
• 42:13
  Angie: Like just suggest something and the worst they can say is no, I'm not interested.
• 42:17
  Mary: Right, right, give them an out, but yeah, so anyway, what great topics we talked about today.
• 42:24
  Mary: So can you tell everybody a little bit more about what you do and where they can find you?
• 42:29
  Angie: Yes.
• 42:30
  Angie: So my inner glow coaching program is called Shine From the Inside and basically the entire concept revolves around what I was talking about earlier.
• 42:40
  Angie: We're all born with this light inside of us and cause you know kids like they run around, they're screaming, they're dirty, they don't care what anyone thinks of them, and then we grow up and society tells us how we should be or what we should be doing, and then we start dimming our light and we start shrinking ourselves to fit into spaces that may not be for us.
• 43:03
  Angie: So the whole shine from the inside concept is because I feel like a lot of self-help and I struggled with this in my own journey before I found a coach.
• 43:12
  Angie: It's a lot of self-help, is focused on fixing yourself, so to speak, but all of shine from the inside it's about just like rekindling that light inside of you and becoming who you are and when you are, when you seek your happiness and fulfillment from within, then you're naturally attracting the things that are meant for you.
• 43:35
  Angie: Because I think when we're no, I know, when we're seeking things externally like we're chasing, we're chasing.
• 43:42
  Angie: We may or may not get it, and if we do get it, it's it's not long lasting, it's just this short term hit and it's like that's not the recipe for happiness and fulfillment.
• 43:51
  Angie: So when you shine from the inside, you have this happiness and fulfillment that nothing can take away from you.
• 43:58
  Angie: Even if someone puts a negative comment on your Instagram, they can't take away that light from you.
• 44:04
  Angie: So that's one part of it.
• 44:07
  Angie: Another part of it is, when you're shining from the inside, other people can feel that because it's like the sun, you're radiating on the people around you, so you're inspiring other people to shine their lights.
• 44:20
  Angie: And this may be too woo woo, but I'm a firm believer.
• 44:24
  Angie: You're either contributing to raising the vibration of the universe or you're contributing to all the fear, propaganda and anger that's going on.
• 44:32
  Angie: So it's this ripple effect that you're also contributing to raising the vibration of the universe.
• 44:38
  Angie: So it's like this whole theory about you're basically being the sun.
• 44:42
  Angie: You're shining in your ball of bright light, and not only is that happy and fulfilling for you, but it's this ripple effect.
• 44:50
  Mary: Yeah, Wow.
• 44:50
  Mary: Well, I can see your passion just as you talk about it.
• 44:54
  Mary: It's similar to I talk about essential nature, that we all really know what we need.
• 44:58
  Mary: We just sort of lose our way and I could see that for you when you talked about.
• 45:03
  Mary: You were always a writer and then you got away from writing, but it's sort of kind of what your soul needs and it was part of what healed you and you right, you knew that, but you didn't.
• 45:13
  Mary: You had to be reminded in a sense.
• 45:15
  Angie: Yeah Well, my very first conversation with my coach, he was like if you could do anything and didn't have to worry about money, what would you do?
• 45:24
  Angie: So keep in mind this is like a week out of my attempt, and for like two weeks afterwards I don't even know how to explain it, the best way I can explain it it feels like you're walking around without skin because every little thing is jarring, even like a bird chirping, which would normally be a nice, pleasant sound.
• 45:46
  Angie: It's just like, oh my God, I can't handle this.
• 45:49
  Angie: So in this state I'm talking to my coach, probably holding on for dear life, trying to make it through the conversation, cause my only goal in those days was like I just need to make it through the day, like that's how severe it was.
• 46:01
  Angie: And so I can only imagine how I showed up on this call with him Cause I'm like holding on and he asked me this question like what would you do?
• 46:09
  Angie: And again, my idea for my book was just an idea and I, but I was like that was the first thing that came to mind.
• 46:17
  Angie: So I started telling him like, but I was like that was the first thing that came to mind.
• 46:20
  Angie: So I started telling him like I want to write this book that's authentic.
• 46:23
  Angie: And then I want to go on speaking tours and like, basically, have love tribes all around the world where it's a safe space for people to be vulnerable.
• 46:30
  Angie: So I'm telling him all about it and after I finished he was like do you realize how lit up you just got over that?
• 46:37
  Angie: And I did notice my state change and again it was probably more pronounced for him because again I'm like hanging on for dear life and now I'm all excited talking about your book, my book.
• 46:46
  Angie: But yes, it's, and usually the things that light people up are the things that we did in childhood, but we we've dimmed our lights because society told us it's unrealistic or whatever the reasons.
• 46:57
  Mary: Yeah Well, and when you talk about light, I think too sometimes you might be too bright for some people, and that's okay.
• 47:05
  Mary: Like you're not their person, then I had to learn that yeah.
• 47:08
  Mary: Yeah, you don't dim yourself to suit somebody else's environment.
• 47:12
  Mary: Yes, that's just so I you know.
• 47:15
  Mary: Shine as bright as you need to, man, because that's.
• 47:22
  Angie: And that's a good thing, because that was a hard.
• 47:23
  Angie: I'm glad you brought that up because it sounds super empowering and positive, and it mostly is.
• 47:26
  Angie: But there are people who will resent your light and you have to learn that.
• 47:33
  Angie: That's okay.
• 47:35
  Mary: Yeah, because I also say take up your space.
• 47:37
  Mary: And I think that when we stand really in the space that we should be inhabiting, it's very scary.
• 47:45
  Mary: It also know that it's kind of like when you put anything out on social media, even as someone who's trying to offer help, you get comments that aren't great.
• 48:04
  Mary: And when something means a lot to you and you have somebody write a comment about it, it's really that's, I think, that one of those challenges of like you keep standing right where you are because just it doesn't mean it's wrong if just because somebody else doesn't feel it's for them.
• 48:24
  Angie: That's a really good point and I'm going to share a story.
• 48:27
  Angie: I don't know if this will help you with your book or anyone else, but in my book, because I do have experience writing.
• 48:34
  Angie: I also have a lot of experience reading.
• 48:37
  Angie: I'm very well aware of certain writing rules.
• 48:41
  Angie: Like you don't want to open up a book in a dark place because if you're a good writer, you're taking your reader into your emotions.
• 48:48
  Angie: So you don't want to like start off a book in a dark place because then that's setting the scene for the rest of the book.
• 48:54
  Angie: So I initially started off my book like in this happy place and then I went into my story.
• 49:00
  Angie: But my story goes into some deep dark places and I thought about it and I'm like I want people to be prepared for this because it's not for everyone.
• 49:11
  Angie: I like some books are for everyone.
• 49:13
  Angie: Like my book is not for everyone because it goes into some dark places in my life.
• 49:17
  Angie: And I was like you know, I want people to know what they're in for and I self published, so I was able to do this.
• 49:24
  Angie: I don't think a publisher ever would have went for this.
• 49:26
  Angie: But I started out my book in a dark place because I just wanted people to know what they were in for, and if they could make it past the first few chapters and stuck with it, then it's the book for them.
• 49:37
  Angie: The only negative reviews I've received are like oh, it started out boring, it started out too dark, blah, blah, blah.
• 49:46
  Angie: And so in my mind I'm like perfect, it's not the book for them.
• 49:49
  Angie: They shouldn't have continued reading.
• 49:51
  Angie: So that's a good way to filter out who's for you and who's not for you is just to like be upfront about who you are and what you're all about.
• 50:00
  Mary: Yeah, and it will resonate with the right people.
• 50:02
  Mary: And we also don't know what that caused in them, like what feelings came up.
• 50:08
  Mary: It could be way deeper than just oh, I don't like the beginning of this, so we don't have to take that on Like it's not our responsibility to figure out why that didn't work for them.
• 50:18
  Mary: So it's great that you, you went, sort of went in with that knowledge.
• 50:22
  Mary: And that's where I think, when we run up against a difficulty, to be able to say, okay, this is not unexpected, or okay, I'm going to, what can I learn from this, instead of like putting it around us, like a heavy blanket, like we have to drag around with us, it's like I'm just going to take that as some information and leave it Like it's not for me to figure it out.
• 50:46
  Angie: Yeah, and that's another thing.
• 50:47
  Angie: You definitely have to use discernment, because they could have said something like oh, it has a lot of typos, or something like that, which is actually a legitimate complaint, or something like that which is actually a legitimate complaint, and it's something that I could take action on and fix.
• 51:01
  Angie: But them simply saying that it's boring or it's too dark, like I don't feel, like that's on me, cause that was actually my intention to start out the book that way.
• 51:09
  Angie: Yep.
• 51:10
  Mary: Yep.
• 51:10
  Mary: Thanks for the accurate review.
• 51:13
  Angie: Yeah, basically.
• 51:16
  Mary: Well, thank you so much for being here today, Angie.
• 51:18
  Mary: I really appreciate it.
• 51:20
  Angie: Thank you.
• 51:21
  Angie: I always enjoy talking about improv too, so I like how you weaved that into the conversation.
• 51:26
  Mary: Well, and I'm going to put all your contact info in the show notes, because I know I didn't give you the opportunity to say where to find you.
• 51:33
  Mary: So go ahead and say that, but I'll put it in the show notes too.
• 51:37
  Angie: I think you asked me that and I just went on a rant.
• 51:39
  Angie: My Instagram is AngieHawkins808 and my website is runninginslipperscom, and that has information about my book and my coaching program.
• 51:47
  Mary: Okay, thank you.
• 51:48
  Mary: So again, I'll drop it in the show notes so people don't have to write anything if they're driving.
• 51:53
  Angie: I also have another thing to mention.
• 51:54
  Angie: Well, first of all, for my coaching program I do offer a free call, but in August I am running a special for a thousand dollars off coaching program for new people who sign up.
• 52:06
  Angie: So I'm also throwing that out there.
• 52:08
  Angie: If this doesn't get aired to the end of August and someone reaches out to me and says they've heard me on this podcast, I will find a way to honor it, because I know the timing might be off.
• 52:18
  Mary: Yeah, well, I'm going to tell you.
• 52:20
  Mary: Normally it would be off, but I was away for a couple of weeks, so this will air in August, because-.
• 52:26
  Angie: Oh, perfect, okay, so the sale still stands?
• 52:29
  Mary: Yep, I don't know the exact date, and this is we're going to be optimistic and think this podcast is going to last for a long time.
• 52:35
  Mary: So we're in August 2025 right now.
• 52:37
  Mary: But yeah, that will be.
• 52:41
  Angie: it'll air in August, so it's good, okay, perfect, so I am having a summer sale for the month of August 2025.
• 52:47
  Angie: It ends midnight.
• 52:48
  Angie: I'm in Hawaii, which is one of the last time zones, so I'll honor it until midnight.
• 52:53
  Angie: My time on the 31st.
• 52:55
  Mary: Okay, so that gives people plenty of time on the 31st, okay, so that gives people plenty of time.
• 53:02
  Mary: So if they go to your website, they'll find the discount code no.
• 53:03
  Angie: So the way it works now, I'm going to change it on August 1st.
• 53:06
  Angie: The way it works now, you have to fill out an application to be able to speak with me, but I'm going to change my website so that you can actually just set up a call on my calendar, because I don't want it to take too much time, especially for the people who may not have time to do it until the end of the month.
• 53:21
  Mary: Okay, perfect Okay.
• 53:23
  Angie: Actually, I might change my website today, because we're the only ones who know and it's July 30th.
• 53:31
  Mary: It is.
• 53:31
  Mary: It's July 30th when we're recording this, so I'm working on a tight time schedule right now, so that is going to be to the advantage of the listeners in your case, angie.
• 53:40
  Mary: So that's pretty cool.
• 53:41
  Mary: Yes, okay, and I want to thank everyone for listening.
• 53:45
  Mary: I would really love if you would take a second and review the show, whether it's just a quick click on the ratings or you take time to write something, because the more feedback I have, the easier it is for other people to find me on this show I have, the easier it is for other people to find me on this show.
• 54:04
  Mary: So, until next time, go out into the world and be the amazing, resilient, vibrant Violet that you are.
• 54:25
  Mary: Thank you.