Latest / The Curve / How to Financially Prepare for a Breakup or Divorce, with Helen Baker.

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How to Financially Prepare for a Breakup or Divorce, with Helen Baker. · The Curve

• 0:00
  You know, that feeling when you actually hit a milestone or you achieve something that you've been trying to for ages
• 0:07
  You may be doubted yourself, but you actually finally get there and this could be anything
• 0:12
  This could be landing a new job that you've been working really hard towards and writing down all the ones that you have and and and really making a
• 0:20
  Proper case of why you deserve to be paid more or promoted or it might be
• 0:25
  Starting a side hustle. It could be anything that takes time planning and having to back yourself
• 0:32
  And that's exactly how we think about saving and investing at the curve. It's how we teach
• 0:37
  Everywhere across our workshops and the investing club on the podcast building towards big stuff whether that be
• 0:44
  Growing your investment portfolio or
• 0:47
  Saving up to buy something that actually takes time and preparation and
• 0:51
  Confidence to get there. So while I was home in New Zealand as in while I'm recording this right now
• 0:56
  I have been so lucky to drive this incredible car around and
• 1:02
  It's fair to say Alexis has made its way onto my wish list and I didn't really ever think that
• 1:09
  Investing in a car like this would be something that I would consider or would put high on my priorities
• 1:14
  But the way that it's made me feel the confidence that I have when driving this car
• 1:19
  How safe I feel. It's just
• 1:21
  Yeah, I finally get it and so what we've done is created a step-by-step guide to help you to get from wherever you are when it comes to saving for something big like
• 1:30
  Alexis or something else
• 1:32
  To help you get from where you are to where you want to be because I think that
• 1:36
  You know just back to what I was saying at the beginning. It's like it's anything that's worth having
• 1:42
  It's going to take hard work and time and commitment and backing yourself to get there
• 1:47
  And so if you would like to know the best way to save and prepare and work towards
• 1:53
  You know a big ticket purchase like buying a car
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  Then we've created something to help and it's in the podcast show notes
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  It's totally free to download and because Lexus isn't just a car
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  So if you would like to download the how-to guide
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  It's in the podcast show notes, but otherwise back to the podcast
• 2:19
  Welcome to Raising the Curve a podcast designed to teach you everything that you need to know to be better with your money
• 2:24
  Come and learn alongside me. So if you're all right a total beginner from the finance expert Victoria Harris
• 2:30
  So I've asked all of the questions you wish you could so that finance and besting and growing you are actually makes sense
• 2:36
  Yes, it's expert education, but that with promise will not be boring and in the wise words of sheer my mom said to me
• 2:42
  You know sweetheart one day you should settle down and marry a rich man. I said mom. I am a rich man
• 2:48
  Come and talk and learn and laugh with us because together. We really can raise the curve
• 2:55
  We are about to talk to the most incredible woman
• 2:59
  Gosh, you really put it on be in my bonnet really yeah in terms of not even wanting to get divorced really
• 3:06
  Yes, I'll see it made me think if I got divorced
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  I know exactly what I need to do. Yes, but also just avoid it would be great. Yeah
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  Well, so the reason we so Helen Baker is who we are about to introduce you to and actually the
• 3:19
  The reason this was a bit inspired is
• 3:21
  Look if you have seen what's been going on in the media and
• 3:26
  AKA the Coldplay concert and the meme that is I think maybe the biggest meme of this year
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  Oh, different like which is whatever is name is like did you see Sophia Richie in her husband?
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  Yeah, it is
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  The baseball
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  But it's also now being called like don't get cold played. It's like it's becoming a verb. It's quite funny
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  So basically we thought look there's a lot of people that are going to either face a separation or divorce
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  Whether that be planned or not
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  Obviously for you know the couple of cold play that was not planned and they're all of a sudden probably by facing a
• 4:02
  Relationship breakdown. So we wanted to speak to an expert
• 4:06
  Who can help run you through the financial and practical and admin steps to get you into a place where if you are divorcing or separating from your partner
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  You've got all your things, you know lined up and ready to go and Helen Baker. She is a qualified practicing and licensed financial advisor
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  So she knows it
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  She's also the author of two books one of them is on your own two feet
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  And it's all about steady steps to women's financial dependence
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  And then the second one also on your own two feet is about divorce
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  Your survive and thrive financial guide right title. Did you when you were speaking to her? I was thinking like um
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  You know when you're over here in the UK a lot of people say things like oh see you're from Australia
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  I'm from New Zealand. It's a different country. Here in your accent. I was like the pearl the pearl of accent
• 4:55
  The pearl of acid
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  Yeah, it's um it was really really great conversation and so many good takeaways if you're
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  Unfortunately heading into divorce or you want to prepare yourself
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  You know financially to make sure that if you should
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  Hopefully not, but if you should eventually get to a divorce page. You've got all your ducks in a row
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  Yeah, lots of really good good nugget
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  I also think this is quite an important conversation like if you even if you're in a really happy relationship
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  Perhaps you have a friend that's going through something shit
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  If you can help them with like the practical action of all things that they need to do while they're struggling with the emotional side
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  I just think being aware of this regardless of how happy your relationship is you never know you could get co-played and I think that this is
• 5:43
  Very funny conversation. Yeah, so we will get into that um
• 5:47
  But if you would like to find out more about Helen Baker in the work that she does we'll put some links in the podcast show notes
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  So
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  So we have the amazing Helen Baker in the studio welcome Helen. Thank you. Hi. Can we start with just I guess
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  Winding back the clock a bit can you just tell us about your your journey? How did you find yourself
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  Working in the financial advice space you're particularly focusing on helping woman because
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  We love that we love that sort of very feminine audience
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  Yeah, but it's actually not my first career
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  So my background was originally
• 6:26
  Accounting management accounting inside corporates and then I actually lived and worked in London for a very long time working for some very big
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  corporates there around project management and so on and then I came back to Australia
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  And started to try to get a job back in Australia after a long time, which is quite hard actually
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  And then at one point I started being a general manager for a financial planning firm
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  And then when that all changed there was an opportunity be an advisor and I was thinking oh no
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  I don't want to do that. It's just like selling things for commission
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  But for me when I looked at it it was
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  You know fixing problems. It was finance. It was helping people to achieve their goals or to avoid a mistake
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  And it was about people
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  So I was like yep, I give it a go and what happened back then was you know
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  You never queued for the ladies toilets at a conference for advisors because there were so few female advisors
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  All of a sudden have gone to a talus with constant. It's like a sports game
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  Yeah, but the women's toilets are always there's no one there
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  It's great
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  And so from there it's become more and more of a thing that you know women really do like talking to women
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  They feel safer. They feel like they're comfortable enough to ask a question that they might consider
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  It's stupid which is not because we often just don't know what we don't know
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  So blurting it out and asking the question is good
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  And then from there it's just kind of grown and the on your own two feet brand has grown and the books have grown
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  And everything sort of grown to see how many more people we can actually get the message out
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  To because not everybody can get advice afford advice or need advice
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  It's big enough to charge the fees that
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  Advisors are stuck with because of the cost of the licenses every year
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  So and that's a kind of a global phenomenon
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  So there's opportunities for everybody to get some takeaway that helps them to get on and stay on their own two feet
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  I love the idea of on your own two feet. It's such a great tagline
• 8:24
  Yeah, it's really empowering
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  So what was sort of the moment where you thought okay, I need to really like go deeper into this
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  I need to sort of pursue that a whole financial planning and management side of things more because there's this huge gap of
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  Women who are being underserved and and don't have the right financial advisors to go to
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  Yes, I think it was a lot more clients that just kept on growing and growing in those similar questions that started to get asked and that's what made me think
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  Hmm, okay, if I put a book together that nails some of these things that helps people
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  That will certainly help a lot of people who can get started. What were some of those key questions
• 9:04
  But the divorce one it was predominantly around women coming in after they'd signed on the dotted line
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  So they would come in and say hey, this is what I walked away with you know
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  Can I still put my kids through school?
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  How does this all work and you'd sort of look that they're the assets that they took away or the way that they set up
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  Actually cost them money because they had to be sold because they weren't the right asset
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  So the shares or the investments were not appropriate for them
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  And then in Australia we have capital gains tax issues when these things happen
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  So people you know go through the process of the legal action
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  I need to walk away with less than what they anticipated they were going to walk away with
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  Can I just pause you for a second for anyone that's like what do you mean they were wrong?
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  Would an example of that being say it's a young mum she's 45 and the
• 9:54
  Investments are her long-term kind of like retirement amounts
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  But
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  90% are an incredibly low risk investment that
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  Are not going to be getting her the returns that she needs to be able to retire when she 65
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  Therefore she needs to sell those and reinvest in different things that are more appropriate for
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  Who she is how old she is and what she's trying to achieve in her life and therefore she gets whacked with the capital gains tax because
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  Rather than taking the things that are appropriate for her
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  Or structuring it in a way that she's able to kind of be picky about what actually she would want in her portfolio
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  She's kind of like this is what I've got and then it's not quite right
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  So they end up worse off because they have to be sold and reinvest is that kind of or on a house
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  In a house is often the one the houses often the big ticket item where you know
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  It was bought for this it's being sold for that and that's that's a big one
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  One of the other mistakes is taking the actual house where you live which
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  Can often make sense because you know that keeps the kids in school
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  It means you keep your social circle the same
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  But generally that is at the expense of having any other investments or superannuational pension funds set aside for you
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  Which means down the track you have a problem and so is that the people that are inheriting a house
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  But they're not getting any other assets. So yeah, is that what you mean?
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  So that's your only asset right yeah, rather than like structuring the deal where it may have been like okay
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  You know what you can take the I don't know the smaller beach house or or we can sell the family house and divvy up their assets
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  And then or you can have
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  Some retirement savings over here. You can have half the pot that we put aside
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  So it's just not very balanced
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  It's basically like it's just easier to say you get the house and the kids can stay in there and I'll take everything else and actually
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  Thought of the next step of like okay, but if we need to sell the house and we have to pack capital gains
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  Then what I actually get is less and like all of that yeah, and then you know things happen like you know
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  Does that mean now that you've got to spend whatever little bit you had on the side
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  Repairing the roof or repairing these things and then you know
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  Can you afford to do that? Does it mean now that you can't even take the kids on holidays? You can't have a holiday yourself
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  There's a lot of impacts that will happen
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  For people based on those decisions
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  So it's not necessarily wrong in every case, you know for some clients. We here
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  I have a plan for one in particular where
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  They are holding on to the house and fortunately property prices have increased a lot for her
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  But the intention is once they're through school is to downsize that property and release some extra cash
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  In order to do that, but it does make it tight from every day living
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  It means she has to work it puts a lot of pressure on other areas of her life
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  In order to do that. So again, it depends on
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  Everybody's situation
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  But there's multiple mistakes other ones are just thinking well the lawyer will tell me if this is not a a good idea to take these assets
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  And that's not always true either because lawyers cannot give financial advice
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  So they can give you legal advice and so they look to partner
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  But they were people who were saying how you need to go and see Helen or you need to read this book
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  But a lot of times people didn't do it and so these were the things that end up catching people out
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  There was majority of your work to try and prepare
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  Women particularly to have structured and be in like the right
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  Frame of mind have the right checks and balances in place should their relationship break down
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  They're not left in a situation that is like less than compromising is the whole idea of your work
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  That you're trying to get people before or yeah preferably before
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  Because even if it's clean and simple at least they know because
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  Generally women who've walked in you know, they they're overwhelmed
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  They feel sad they you know their heads down
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  But when they leave that you can see hope in their face their heads are held high
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  They're confident they're excited about their future
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  They're what I call armed and dangerous not in a bad way, but in an assertive way
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  So can't get the wool pulled over your eyes when the spouse might say oh no
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  You can't have access to that that doesn't count that's mine
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  You know understanding what goes in the asset pool and understanding which ones make sense for you
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  And then we do often some scenarios
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  What if you took that that that because when you have to negotiate
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  They may come back with something different to what you're expecting and you could go yeah, okay
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  That's still okay for me. It's not as perfect as number one
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  But number three still works for me. There's a great quote
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  And I think it's the reason that I've been single for so long
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  Is that the biggest financial decision you're ever making your life is who you marry or who your partner is
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  Do you do you agree with this? I've even heard that one. That's good
• 14:45
  I mean we often use the you know man
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  It's not a financial plan and some guys will say to me how and that's really mean and I said you know what it's not
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  Because you don't want somebody pretending to be in love with you for your money
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  You want someone to be in this relationship because they actually really love you
• 15:02
  And we want the women in the relationship because they actually love you
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  But they can stand on their own two feet too. So it's a win-win
• 15:10
  It's not anti-banned. It's like you know go the girls. It's quite interesting. I heard this
• 15:15
  This is a slight pivot and really not in line with your work at all, but um
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  I heard someone saying this the other day where they were talking about that
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  It was actually it was on a driver's CEO
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  Podcasts and it was a divorce lawyer and he was talking about the
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  Economic exchange but also just the energetic the exchange in general that happens but in a partnership
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  It's economic in different ways and you know someone might have money someone might have looks
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  Someone might have skills to do exercise ed someone might have this you know and it's
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  Being clear about what that exchanges and are you happy with what
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  You're getting a return for what you're giving and are you being clear about it because there's a lot of young woman or
• 15:58
  Young men or whatever that are with someone where you might from the outside look and be confused or judge mental
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  But I think as long but it has whole concept was like if you are
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  Clear and honest and open about what the exchanges
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  No one's getting the wool pulled up. You're being quite clear like for example if someone's 24
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  And as with a billionaire who's 500 kgs
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  Maybe for her that is the exchange she wants and he also wants that and that works for them
• 16:29
  You know, but it's also them saying will come divorce
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  If something happens
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  What is it that you're expecting from me and exchange for what you've given up to be in this relationship and vice versa?
• 16:42
  And having decided that early which I was just like oh I quite like kind of makes sense
• 16:46
  Kind of makes sense because it's sort of being like let's put some numbers around this
• 16:50
  For what this actually feels like for both of us. What would you exchange? What would be you? I don't know
• 16:57
  I honestly don't know because I guess because I'm not in a relationship right now
• 17:00
  I don't have the thing but it just made me it made me think differently about people that look at like inverted common gold diggers
• 17:07
  And think actually hold on a second
• 17:10
  He's choosing this because that's what he wants and he values and he's putting his value in
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  Her beauty and her youth and her energy
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  And she's putting value in the security and his money and what does that mean if they split up?
• 17:23
  How much of that is she entitled to and I think that's the question right making sure that
• 17:29
  When things when or if things do end that one is not left with
• 17:35
  The rough end of it. Yeah, you they've talked about it
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  Yeah, and they know and it's really clear so that should that happen
• 17:41
  It's not a question markable my exchange or my value was this because you've talked about it
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  Why do you think it is so hard to talk about
• 17:49
  finances in a relationship and causes so much ikeness so much tension yet it is literally
• 17:55
  Fundament it's like the one thing you could do to kind of just ease a lot of
• 18:00
  Things within the relationship but nobody wants to do it. It's so
• 18:04
  Weird. I think it's a couple of things, you know
• 18:06
  We were brought up not to talk about politics, religion, sex and money
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  So a lot of people have been brought up that those are the things that you just don't talk about
• 18:15
  But I think we're becoming more liberated and happy to discuss those
• 18:19
  I think we probably just don't know what are the questions to ask and understand what are the issues
• 18:24
  We're trying to protect ourselves from so going back to
• 18:27
  That relationship you were talking about before
• 18:30
  It might be discussed and agreed and then there's the documentation part because when things can go wrong
• 18:37
  It's like well you said this and I said that but nobody's documented anything
• 18:42
  It's become very emotional no one wants to part with their money the other person may now have children and that's a different dynamic to what they walked into
• 18:50
  So there's things to consider all the time but it's you know some people will talk about having a finance date where that's what they do discuss on
• 18:58
  Or give it a piece of time every month or whatever and look at it
• 19:03
  To me it's about getting the same goals and having similar values
• 19:07
  So that you can go in the direct path whereas often you'll find
• 19:11
  One's a spender one's a saver that's difficult because you've got this push and pull that's happening and it's awkward
• 19:18
  But there things that you can still work around about how you manage those kind of things
• 19:22
  But yeah, it's you kind of want to get it out on the table maybe not on the first date
• 19:27
  But it's interesting you say the spender and the saver is you know an awkward uncomfortable dynamic because I almost think
• 19:34
  You know in my 33 years of dating you know my my big career
• 19:39
  I would say that I've come to the conclusion that actually
• 19:42
  Having someone chaotic and loud and spontaneous and
• 19:47
  Barn and blah blah blah is probably not the kind of person that I should be with and actually the polarity of someone that is
• 19:53
  Stable and secure and consistent so your time is
• 19:57
  I guess I just didn't general. I think I realized that you know, it's not necessarily opposite to track. It's more the fact that
• 20:06
  If you're both good or bad at the same things who fills the gap and actually being able to have a team or a teammate who
• 20:14
  Is good when you're not so strong? I think it's quite positive and and I'm talking more like in a
• 20:19
  Personality matching situation here, but then if we were to side step into finances if you have to
• 20:25
  Incredibly liberal spenders
• 20:28
  Isn't that in itself kind of dangerous like isn't it good to have someone that can rein the other in and someone that can like say
• 20:35
  Live a little sometimes like I think it comes down to the goals though
• 20:38
  Yeah, you know if your goals is to spend on nice things or you both value nice things and you want to spend
• 20:44
  Then you'll both be happy
• 20:45
  Do you know what I mean? Where is if if you're in a relationship dynamic with a spender and a saver
• 20:49
  One and you're not aligned on your financial goals
• 20:53
  That was when it causes tension because it's like one is out there spending
• 20:57
  One is out there saving and you haven't had that discussion on like what are the bigger things that you're trying to achieve?
• 21:03
  Is it that you want to buy a house in three years time? Okay, we've got X amount to spend and we've got X amount
• 21:08
  We need to save therefore there's kind of guard rails
• 21:11
  Do you know what I mean? And you're both prioritising your both prioritising but you can both also lean into kind of I guess different
• 21:19
  Parts in terms of spending and saving
• 21:21
  But if you haven't had that discussion the net causes tension because one of you might be
• 21:25
  One of you's assuming the other on spending too much
• 21:27
  But you haven't actually figured out what that bigger goal is or what you're trying to achieve like you're fighting about the smaller thing
• 21:33
  Opposed to like zooming out. Yeah, no, I just think you know if you have two spenders
• 21:38
  You'll probably have a very good time
• 21:40
  But at some point you'll run you'll run out of money or you won't have enough for the future
• 21:45
  And when you're far from the future you probably care less
• 21:49
  But that's when the dynamics change over time people shift, you know
• 21:53
  I remember meeting with there were two people within the space of two weeks who said similar things
• 21:58
  It was like my 20s was for fun
• 22:01
  My 30s was for my career
• 22:04
  And in my 40s, I want to maximise the opportunities that I have because I don't want to work until 70
• 22:11
  And that's absolutely right like different decades you'll want to do different things
• 22:15
  You'll also want to do different things if you're in a partnership or whether you're single
• 22:19
  So those things will change all the time and whilst you can be the spender have fun not have anything for the future
• 22:26
  If you're both the savers you probably do nothing go nowhere
• 22:29
  You know not having a great time and then have this big chunk of money and you know
• 22:34
  The big level are in the future is obviously the relationship but also health can change
• 22:40
  So it's important to make sure that you find a nice balance between hey we got to live a little
• 22:44
  But we got a plan for the future too
• 22:47
  And if you kind of know what that looks like and you get an idea about if we do this this is in this for the future
• 22:52
  This is what our long term will look like so we can kind of get on with enjoying this now knowing
• 22:57
  That's what we're going to work towards big picture. I think that's the key question though and we get asked that a lot is like
• 23:05
  How much should I prioritise now versus the future and it's such an individual question right like how to prioritize or use the resources
• 23:11
  You have for the life you're living currently versus the future life that you want to live like traveling now because you don't have kids right versus
• 23:19
  Squirreling money away for your time like it's just a constant
• 23:24
  Guilty spending money, but then not save it. I don't know. Yes. Can't yeah
• 23:28
  That's the big one, but I always say to people you know
• 23:31
  You kind of work in brackets
• 23:32
  So yes, you've got this young period where but loose and fancy free and you may or may not have a mortgage
• 23:39
  This things that you might be wanting to save for down the track
• 23:41
  But this traveling or having good time is the priority right now
• 23:46
  Then generally when you're having children you kind of knuckling down you might even just go to one salary
• 23:51
  Because you want to stay at home spend more time with the kids
• 23:55
  And then you're probably saving nothing at that point in time, but you know you're not and that's a part of the deal
• 24:02
  Knowing that when the kids get off your hands then you're going to go hard and really crack
• 24:08
  The whip and put away as much as you can and if you can do bits along the way
• 24:12
  That's obviously a benefit because time is your biggest friend when you're investing because it compounds on top of each other
• 24:18
  And it keeps on growing
• 24:19
  Same as a mortgage or you're trying to pay a bit more to get rid of it quicker
• 24:24
  But just also being a little bit kind to yourself being aware
• 24:27
  But you know it's not all about down the track because we've got to have some life along the way
• 24:32
  Otherwise like these things like divorce often happen because people become disillusioned unhappy
• 24:39
  Even unfaithful because they're not having a good time as it is and we're so stringent and we become boring
• 24:45
  So we've got to find a piece of action that makes us happy
• 24:49
  Ties in with our goals ties in with our values knowing this is what we're agreeing to at this stage
• 24:54
  It will change then we'll change to that then we'll change to that
• 24:57
  I like the twenties is to have fun 30s is for your career and 40s is to
• 25:02
  That taking it seriously. I've got a few more years
• 25:05
  To take it seriously. I love that that's the bit you talk from that
• 25:07
  I know I'm not exactly like that simple. Yeah
• 25:10
  I think what you said really you said, you know when you have kids, you know
• 25:14
  That's the point where you you're not really saving and then after that you're nuking down
• 25:18
  I'm like it's all downhill from here
• 25:21
  Yeah, it's not enough, you know because it's like having kids is firstly
• 25:25
  Exoresting and expensive on top of that to know that you don't really have much fun money
• 25:30
  But your money's not on investing
• 25:32
  Then after they've left and you're finally like God I can breathe stunning
• 25:36
  Then you have to go head down, but like it's just exhausting, isn't it? Yeah, sorry to sound like depressed
• 25:42
  But like it's like it's these are our best days. Sorry, but what I'm trying to say here is like
• 25:48
  I think that that balance piece is like more important than ever throughout all those stages because even when you have kids and you're not able to
• 25:56
  Save for example because so much is going on your kids what you said there about but that's also when people become unfaithful
• 26:03
  Because they're unhappy because they're so restricted because the pressure of raising kids
• 26:08
  You're not actually future like future proofing your finances because you can't and you don't have money to have fun
• 26:14
  Like it is a really difficult balance and that's why I think I don't know
• 26:18
  I guess like the more financially independent you could be or also perhaps if you were to save and invest earlier
• 26:25
  Even though we've just said the 20s of what loosen fancy free
• 26:29
  If you were doing a little bit earlier surely that makes it easier by the time you're having kids and then
• 26:34
  Yeah, do you know what I mean? Like if we were investing from when we were 15
• 26:38
  Even if it was just a small amount by the time you have kids. It's not this
• 26:42
  We're so stretched. We can't afford to go to the movies to go for a holiday to help alleviate the stress or like something like that
• 26:49
  Yeah, and I think like in a lot of the countries that are listening to your wonderful podcasts is
• 26:55
  They're certainly in Australia and the UK has it with pensions as well. We call it superannuation in Australia
• 27:01
  So now 12% of your salary goes into superannuation
• 27:06
  So you're technically as long as you're working you are technically still investing and investing in a tax free
• 27:13
  Eventually it becomes tax free but a tax favorable structure along the journey
• 27:18
  So you are actually still doing some investing even though you might pause the investing that you're doing on top of
• 27:24
  That for a period of time
• 27:27
  But I think this is where the financial advice bit works the best
• 27:31
  We might sit down with clients and go if you do xyz. This is where you end up if you do xyz
• 27:38
  A
• 27:39
  This is where you end up and if you can see that hey having a good time and doing some extra things that we didn't plan on or doing a
• 27:46
  Renew or doing those things
• 27:48
  Can I still get pretty close to where I'm at you probably go ahead and do it. It's when the gap is so
• 27:55
  You know distorted that you go. Yeah, we really need to think about what we're doing and and maybe we do have to do this
• 28:02
  So maybe I have to keep working or I don't or those sorts of things
• 28:05
  But working from a place where you can see what the numbers look like
• 28:09
  See what the trajectory looks like and then make quality decisions again that your goals and values are aligned to
• 28:15
  Then you're on the path you're on the agreed path that you've decided to do together
• 28:20
  And I think that's right. It's having that visibility
• 28:22
  You're having having that view of like this is what my life will look like when I'm
• 28:26
  65 all this is what my life will look like when I'm 65 which could be scary
• 28:30
  But you'd rather know now than when you're 64 or yeah, yeah
• 28:34
  People will always say oh, I wish I met you five years ago or wish I met you ten years ago
• 28:38
  And I think yeah me too
• 28:39
  But the thing is for a lot of people you still got time to make a better
• 28:44
  Position them where you are right now and use the smart, you know
• 28:47
  There's a lot of strategies that we have certainly here in Australia
• 28:51
  Where you can put money into superannuation you get tax deductions for that
• 28:56
  There's things that you can do that make the overall
• 29:00
  Outcome not just about investment but about strategies well and underpinning
• 29:05
  Everything that you build on top with what I call those five foundations
• 29:09
  No one's ever passed that test in like 16 years
• 29:11
  So there are things that people need to do in there
• 29:15
  But it's all got to work together
• 29:17
  So that should you lose your job you've got a plan if a health event comes you've got a plan
• 29:22
  And that's the thing that then you can rest easy you don't need to stress and that's important
• 29:27
  We don't need women's stressing because we do
• 29:30
  If I say to women what's the most important thing about money to you?
• 29:33
  They will say security we are
• 29:35
  Technically wired as women falls security financial security
• 29:40
  It's important generally that we have a roof over our head, but we need financial security
• 29:44
  So making sure we know that then we can just get on with living and enjoying ourselves more
• 29:49
  Easy
• 29:50
  Sounds like a dream
• 29:51
  So easy
• 29:52
  Before we get into the idea of you know an unraveling marriage and or an unraveled marriage
• 29:58
  And what you should be doing
• 29:59
  Can we talk because there will be a lot of people who are listening to this who are
• 30:03
  Probably you know
• 30:05
  By and large and reasonably happy relationships and not planning on leaving and you know quite comfortable
• 30:11
  Perhaps have younger kids or are thinking about it at some stage in the future
• 30:16
  What would you say are some of the most important
• 30:20
  Conversations or questions to have within that relationship
• 30:24
  To ensure that you are a on the same page and be prepared should the worst happen one day
• 30:30
  Yeah, I think again it's coming back to understanding what's important about money for both parties
• 30:36
  You know what
• 30:37
  What do they value what was money like growing up for them and how has that affected them
• 30:43
  So you can find some people who money was very tight for them
• 30:46
  And so they therefore live very tight for others. It was like it was tight for them
• 30:51
  So now they just splurge and go wild
• 30:53
  They just don't want to be restricted anymore
• 30:55
  So people's responses to
• 30:58
  Past upbringing around money will determine sort of where they're going to go
• 31:02
  And again, it's getting those things out on the table
• 31:05
  So it's not you know, should we save an extra hundred this week? It's about
• 31:09
  You know, how do you feel about that? Is it more important that we
• 31:14
  Have some fun now, but we work longer. Is it more important that we go medium now
• 31:19
  But we want to drop our hours down the track. Is it more important to retire? How important is the house is it
• 31:26
  Really important to have a big house and we're happy with something else so we can travel more and defining what those things are
• 31:32
  And listening to what the other person is saying and then presenting different scenarios
• 31:37
  But you know, this is what I was thinking is that what you thinking so it's almost like understanding where you've come from
• 31:42
  And then understanding where you're wanting to go and how do you find something that feels good for both of you
• 31:48
  Yes, and finding where those differences are and are we agreed to be the differences because it's
• 31:53
  Even in some cases
• 31:55
  Not everybody wants to retire at the same time. I have people who'll say you know
• 32:00
  I'm happy to work longer. I enjoy it, but maybe not full-time. I'll go down to two or three days a week
• 32:05
  The other person is like no, we I don't want to do this past this age, you know
• 32:10
  Physically, I can't do it or whatever and then an agreement now that often changes because when the other person retires
• 32:17
  They're like hmm. I'm going to work and they're not so they want to back off
• 32:22
  But and things again things might change around
• 32:25
  Parents situations is a big one now where we're actually seeing
• 32:29
  Relationships break down and then women particularly struggling to find their own place to live
• 32:35
  So they're having to move in with their daughter or
• 32:38
  Situations like that. So it's you have to kind of think about your own situation and also what's happening
• 32:44
  Up and down the family tree as well and care is a big one as well caring for parents or grandparents
• 32:50
  What do you say to anyone listening that is like?
• 32:54
  Oh, that doesn't apply to me. I mean the I mean the best marriage or the best you know partnership
• 32:59
  We don't need it. We don't need to worry about it my husband or well my wife. They'll take care of me
• 33:04
  It's fine
• 33:05
  You know like what do you say those people that literally just turn a blind eye and think that
• 33:10
  You know, it's going to be
• 33:12
  Absolutely sunshine and rainbows for the rest of their lives
• 33:15
  Yeah, if it is sunshine and rainbows. I think that's fantastic. How do I love like?
• 33:20
  I still think you need visibility because you know
• 33:22
  I don't know if you've heard about the tradwife that started to become a bit of a thing
• 33:28
  Back up there again
• 33:29
  So again, there are situations where it works also playing to your strengths at times where you can't be across
• 33:35
  Everything someone might be very good at the finances someone might be very good at cooking and you delegate those away
• 33:41
  But it is really important to have the visibility for you to know what is going on because generally
• 33:48
  Again over periods of time. I've seen where one partner
• 33:52
  Has done nothing just put money in turn deposit so similar to what you're saying before low risk low return
• 33:58
  So they should have been in a better position and they're not or
• 34:02
  You've got the partner investing in all crazy stuff that has gone bust and your money has gone bust and you weren't aware
• 34:10
  So it's really important that you are across what's happening
• 34:14
  You understand the risks that are associated with that you understand what these outcomes mean
• 34:20
  And plan for some things that might change around anything whether it be health
• 34:25
  Again, having to care for a parent something like that. How does that affect your outcome and have those discussions
• 34:31
  If you're still fine after that great, but always maintain visibility. I think is key
• 34:37
  Imagine a few all of a sudden decided to ask your partner
• 34:41
  Hey honey, where is our money? What if we invest in it and they're like yeah, so we've invested um a hundred percent in this
• 34:49
  brand new coin in the crypto space
• 34:53
  And look no one's told me to invest in it, you know
• 34:55
  You just don't know unless you ask the question and you're making no effort to be
• 35:01
  Involved in those decisions or at least understanding what's happening
• 35:05
  It's also half your money, right? Well bizarre like imagine how scared
• 35:08
  I mean the amount of trust that we
• 35:11
  Push in is kind of scary sometimes like I think it's really beautiful that people are
• 35:17
  You know if you're listening to this and you're like yeah, we are really happy and we're in a relationship
• 35:22
  We've been together 20 years like I'm really comfortable that's amazing and we're not trying to like
• 35:26
  Discreate it that but it's more the idea that
• 35:29
  Money is so inherently personal and the way that you invest the way that you personally invest is probably going to be quite different to your partner
• 35:37
  Are you investing your way that's in a middle ground for both of you because
• 35:41
  Hundreds in crypto might not be aligned with your values or your risk tolerance
• 35:46
  But if you have no idea and you're not actively having a say and where it's being invested then
• 35:53
  If you do divorce or if something goes wrong or you lose all your money
• 35:56
  It's not really fair to be like that's your fault
• 36:00
  Because I feel like you have the responsibility to ask the question. Yeah
• 36:05
  Yeah
• 36:06
  And I think as well you know knowing what when we talk about those foundations number three is around
• 36:11
  Insurancees, you know what life
• 36:13
  Insurancees are in place if your partner who has taken care of your spouse has taken care of all of these things for you
• 36:21
  But did they actually ensure themselves? So I remember one of the first ladies that I met with
• 36:27
  Her husband had passed away
• 36:29
  He'd been invested in all sorts of stuff hadn't done the insurances and then you know lived in a house for 34 years that they had to sell
• 36:38
  Well the what the widow had to sell
• 36:41
  Um and move out now we got her set up in another house and set for life with the money that she needed but
• 36:48
  She had no idea what was going on and again if you can
• 36:51
  Part of it. I think one of the opportunities you have is like blame us
• 36:56
  So hey, I listened to this podcast and talked about
• 37:00
  Understanding what's going on with my finances. Can we go and sit down with an advisor together and just so I can get an idea of what's happening
• 37:07
  Get it out on the table
• 37:09
  So you actually see what's going on and that's another one where it's really good to be accountable to somebody
• 37:15
  There was one where the lady won't mind me saying this because she's asked me at various speaking gigs to speak about it
• 37:22
  But oh that's so cool by the way that she said that
• 37:25
  Because she wanted other people to learn from what she were having to her that's amazing
• 37:29
  Yeah, so her husband was a lot older than her
• 37:33
  And he was able to access into what we call our superannuation here in Australia
• 37:39
  And his business had got in a bit of trouble
• 37:42
  And so he was accessing the money out of that super to prop up the business
• 37:48
  And unfortunately after a while
• 37:51
  There was nothing left and the problem the business was still a problem
• 37:57
  And so you know another one where they actually had to lose their house
• 38:00
  managed to work some things that gets it sorted and rebuild going forward
• 38:05
  But it was that if he had been if they had been accountable
• 38:10
  We would be able to see the supers getting short smaller and smaller
• 38:14
  These investments are getting smaller. It's like ringing bells
• 38:17
  What's going on you know, so that can be a nice way if you
• 38:22
  If you're one of those people who's struggling to have the conversation
• 38:25
  You can bring it out in the open and just say hey, you know
• 38:28
  I just wanted to find out what's happening with this and stay accountable
• 38:32
  I like that blame
• 38:34
  Blame what I asked me like I listened to this great podcast and I said yeah
• 38:38
  Happy to be blamed. Yeah, yeah, make me the bad
• 38:41
  care
• 38:42
  So let's just say let's move on to the idea of someone's potentially in a slightly unhappy relationship
• 38:47
  And there's a part of them that's thinking I really don't want to be here
• 38:51
  I need to think about leaving and I
• 38:54
  Yeah, I don't
• 38:56
  I don't know
• 38:58
  How to do it emotionally, but I know I need to start thinking practically about the finances
• 39:03
  How could someone like quietly prepare
• 39:06
  financially if
• 39:08
  Either she wants to leave or she's suspecting that someone's going to leave them
• 39:12
  What are the important things to check do know
• 39:16
  Have done so again this come we'll come back to how much visibility you have how much knowledge do you know about what the actual situation is
• 39:25
  And importantly do you have access to your own bank account?
• 39:28
  So I always recommend people have an emergency fund
• 39:32
  So it's important that you've got something set aside to either
• 39:36
  A allow you to go
• 39:39
  But ideally what you're trying to do is use that time to get advice before you go
• 39:44
  So you make wise decisions before you actually call it so it's back to that thing of being armed and dangerous in a good way
• 39:52
  Is knowing okay?
• 39:54
  This is the situation
• 39:55
  This is going to be what I'm going to do going forward so you need to get some legal advice
• 40:00
  Some financial advice and know what you need to know before you make the move is kind of good
• 40:06
  And it will help you get focused away from the emotions to the practicalities of doing it
• 40:13
  Bear in mind though that all of these assets form what we call the asset pool
• 40:18
  So they all count in terms of what gets divided where
• 40:22
  But you're technically just drawing on some of those assets that can be repaid back or adjusted down the track
• 40:29
  In order for you to get the advice and feel confident about the decisions that you're making
• 40:33
  I remember reading something about a famous divorce. I can't remember who it was
• 40:37
  But their advice was go and spend
• 40:40
  Spend heaps of money leading up the divorce it was it was that um actor from Yellowstone. Oh
• 40:46
  Yeah, yeah, and she was she was advised to go and spend lots and lots of money in the lead up to the divorce
• 40:52
  So that the I guess the the payout or the her living costs would be
• 40:57
  You're assumed to be as high as they were you need a new mesoride every month
• 41:01
  Yeah, yeah, okay, we need to we need to give you a monthly payment of a hundred grand
• 41:06
  You know rather than what you're normal so you know it's like 20 grand
• 41:08
  I mean is that probably not the best thing to do it sounds like a very American kind of approached
• 41:14
  It was definitely an American couple
• 41:16
  Yeah, I think what you know, I talked to clients about you know
• 41:19
  What is what is your spending plan? So I don't tend to use the word budget because budget feels a bit restrictive
• 41:25
  And we are going to have to spend money on the groceries go and holidays get ahead and so on
• 41:30
  So work out what that is work out what the costs are for the kids because often
• 41:36
  Generally speaking the children will be
• 41:39
  Having more time with the mum than they will with the dad
• 41:43
  And the dad will pay some child support
• 41:45
  But it's just generally nowhere near as near as what you need to help provide for kids
• 41:51
  So it's understanding again, what are the costs that you need to be planning for so that when you come to the negotiation table
• 41:58
  You can you know have documentation you've done your homework you are again
• 42:02
  I'm dangerous enough to say this is actually
• 42:05
  The cost because perhaps he hasn't got any idea you know what the costs are honestly
• 42:11
  Can you imagine can you imagine having four children
• 42:15
  And it costing you 2,000 a week to pay for their food their schooling their after school activities blah blah blah the doctor
• 42:24
  And having child support of $400 and then having to make up three quarters of that like I just
• 42:31
  I honestly makes me so angry to think that there's some people in that situation
• 42:36
  I panic even like thinking about
• 42:38
  Losing my income or being on loan cut like for my my own personal expenses and my dog
• 42:44
  But let alone like having three or four dependents where
• 42:49
  You know you might have to sell the family home which for them would be so incredibly
• 42:54
  Emotional and distressing you might have to you know imagine having to put them into different schools because you can't afford you like they lose their friends
• 43:01
  They've just be so many things that you would try
• 43:04
  Your utmost to do to not and you can see why some people go quote unquote a little crazy right because
• 43:11
  It is there is so much emotion in it and gills a lot of times and gills
• 43:16
  But also sorry. Why are we calling it child support like they're your children
• 43:21
  This isn't like the your ex-wife's children that you're supporting with a little bit of your pocket money
• 43:28
  I just think it's so messed up the whole
• 43:31
  rhetoric around kids and around whose responsible and around parental leave and around the financial support
• 43:37
  It is so bizarre that
• 43:40
  Majority of that risk even when you said kids generally will spend more time with the mom. It's like why well then they should get a lot more
• 43:47
  But also why is that like why is it that she's
• 43:51
  More responsible for the kids. It's just so messed up. I hate the narrative when you see divorces in the paper or whenever it is like even
• 43:58
  Jeff Bezos and McKenzie Scott and it was like she
• 44:01
  instantly became the
• 44:03
  One of the wealthiest women in the world because she got a payout from of Amazon. She is from the divorce
• 44:09
  And I was not even even was commenting being like oh she did nothing for that and she just got paid out like
• 44:14
  There is no way you can tell me that that man had whatever three or four kids
• 44:20
  And built one of the most successful businesses in the world and she did nothing without the support of
• 44:26
  A partner like like a wife like her that helped support and take care of everything else around that
• 44:32
  Like I was just say he would never get to where he is
• 44:34
  Anyway, it just really frustrates me when people say about divorces like she got half
• 44:39
  It's like maybe she should have got more to be honest
• 44:42
  Yeah, yeah, yeah
• 44:43
  And that's a big thing because like certainly here in Australia, you know
• 44:47
  We have the retirement gap from women having time off where to look after children just in even unhappy relationships
• 44:54
  You've got the gender pay gap where we still underpaid against what the men are doing for the same thing
• 45:01
  We have what I call career choice gap so women generally will be
• 45:07
  Working in jobs that don't pay as higher salary so the caring roles, you know the child care aged care
• 45:13
  etc
• 45:15
  And then we have the actual caring gap where we're giving up work in order to take care of
• 45:20
  Parents or grandparents and so on so by nature the caring piece of us
• 45:26
  Yeah, it really takes some sacrificial hits
• 45:28
  So yeah to your point
• 45:30
  It's probably like the camp should tilt further
• 45:32
  Because the husband's ability to recover financially is generally quicker because their salaries are high on
• 45:41
  I know sorry sometimes I think we need like a punching bag in this room to be able to like work our anger out on
• 45:47
  Now there's a few quick questions that we'd love to ask before we get through to like the idea of rebuilding and sort of
• 45:53
  Getting back on your own to feed it after a divorce or separation
• 45:56
  But in the middle of this so like let's just use the cold play example. We have
• 46:03
  You know the CEO of whatever that company was in the head of HR astronomer yep caught in the act
• 46:09
  They are all of a sudden very quickly no doubt going through some pretty
• 46:14
  awful at home
• 46:16
  Dynamics where no doubt that they're probably going to be separating from their partners. Who knows
• 46:20
  But let's just say that's happening. Why is it important to like cancel credit cards quickly or
• 46:27
  Start updating things like utility bill names and where you know like all of those
• 46:32
  Admin pieces
• 46:34
  Yeah, we just go through like what are the immediate admin things that need to be thought about if and when you're going through
• 46:40
  Perhaps a sudden divorce or a sudden separation
• 46:43
  Yes, so absolutely the ones that you mentioned I talk about
• 46:47
  stopping the leakage and
• 46:49
  Getting control over what you can get control of with the ultimate being that you are totally in control of your own
• 46:55
  Financial future however long that takes to get grasped across everything that you've got
• 47:01
  But the leakage sure the risk you know every bank would would have dealt with these before so you want to be able to
• 47:07
  If there's mortgages or what we call offset accounts with money in them
• 47:10
  We want to start to minimize what that is. Yes money can come out
• 47:15
  Equivalent to each other to get the advice that you need
• 47:17
  But then you want to cap it because your credit rating is at risk if things keep going and more importantly
• 47:24
  If money has been spent and it's gone. It's gone
• 47:28
  So you can't get it back
• 47:30
  So you want to make sure that you're trying to stop that as quickly as possible and protect yourself
• 47:35
  So you maximize what the outcomes are for you going forward and then yes, everything that is personal to you
• 47:42
  Access to your emails access to your bank account access to
• 47:46
  Everything phones like you need to get control over those things and one of the things we have again in Australia
• 47:53
  And I think it's similar in the UK and as probably is in other countries around the world
• 47:57
  You must be able to get access to your own financial
• 48:01
  Money
• 48:03
  That you can have on your side if you do not it's considered financial abuse
• 48:07
  Which is a form of domestic violence or domestic abuse as they call it in the UK
• 48:13
  Which is a an offense a criminal offense
• 48:15
  So it is important that you do get that money if you don't you need to talk to a lawyer who can get a court order
• 48:22
  To get you money so you can stand on your own two feet
• 48:25
  Do you mean if that's like a joint account and then one partner goes and changes
• 48:30
  Changes that or freezes that that's that's when it's considered financial abuse
• 48:35
  Yeah, or when the situations where the other person has no access to the money
• 48:40
  There are dynamics where you know all the money is in one person's name perhaps you're not working
• 48:46
  So you don't even have an income stream for yourself that you could
• 48:49
  Transfer that your salary over to a different account and make decisions you have to be able to get access to your own money
• 48:56
  Good times and bad times whether you're in a relationship or not you must have that autonomy
• 49:02
  And so then why are things like canceling credit cards or
• 49:06
  Why is that not then you committing financial abuse against the other person?
• 49:11
  Well, you want to get on in touch and say like we need to cut these off
• 49:15
  But then the other person needs to have access and there needs to be agreements in place about what those limits are
• 49:21
  What it's going to be used for and this is where you will need sort of mediation or some legal advice
• 49:26
  Around what you can do to protect each other make sure you still got access to funds
• 49:31
  But capping any leakage that is happening both ways so when you say it's all right
• 49:36
  So just being super super transparent here is at the idea that okay, we're separating
• 49:41
  Which means our romantic relationship has stopped therefore our spending and our
• 49:46
  leakage and different areas needs to stop so everything needs to be paused
• 49:50
  We need to pause our credit cards. We need to pause any repayments everything needs to just be like settled
• 49:55
  We need to make sure that we both have a certain amount to be able to like live in function until we've sorted everything out
• 50:01
  But essentially it's like all businesses stopping right now until we are on the same page with what's happening with what
• 50:08
  Yeah, and agreement with the bank if there is a mortgage attached like what are your obligations do you still need to meet repayments
• 50:15
  Do you get a period of time where there's some reprieve
• 50:18
  What what are you going to do about that in order to make sure that it just doesn't run away with itself
• 50:23
  And then at that point it's like starting the conversations with external advisors or
• 50:28
  People who could help you to navigate the actual detangling of all of your assets and money
• 50:34
  But I'm guessing the idea is that you want to have already have predetermined how that's being untangled so that it's not then
• 50:41
  Emotionally charged and how are we doing this? It's more or less like here's our prenup or here's our contract that we've already agreed to
• 50:48
  And this is what's happening. Yeah, and again, it can be something like the idea is to be as amicable as possible because if you run down the legal lane for a very long time
• 50:58
  You just find yourself in mexican standoff when actually what you're trying to do is release the financial assets
• 51:05
  So you can get on with living your life. You don't want to spend two or three years in turmoil going around these things
• 51:11
  And some are uglier than others
• 51:13
  But generally
• 51:15
  You can get to a point where you're mediating and saying this is what I need this is what we're agreeing to
• 51:20
  We talk I talk in the book about the four steps that they have in Australia
• 51:25
  Around what are the things that they're looking for that determines whether you get 50 50 or 60 40 or
• 51:32
  All of those things so that you can then look at that asset pool
• 51:35
  What's in there? What percentage does that calculate to be what makes sense for me to keep
• 51:42
  Cell trade and when do I sell and trade because do we do that as a couple where the cost of the taxes together
• 51:50
  So I look at one of the couples that I had and it was amicable
• 51:54
  He earned significantly more than her
• 51:57
  So
• 51:58
  We managed it in a way where we sold assets that belonged in her name
• 52:03
  With a lesser tax but split the assets overall the right way
• 52:07
  But the overall wealth turned out better
• 52:10
  But you can only do that in an amicable way where everyone comes out better
• 52:14
  And at the end of the day, it's falling through to your children
• 52:17
  So you want the best outcome and do things in a smart way
• 52:22
  And then once you've gone through all that emotional
• 52:26
  legal financial turmoil
• 52:30
  How do you help women in particular kind of I guess rebuild and and and have find that that confidence again
• 52:37
  And that financial stability because that must be
• 52:40
  Super tough. They've had this really really steep learning curve in terms of you know learning about the finances and legalities and everything
• 52:48
  So how do you help them you know, I guess rebuild after that it would be so scary to go from being in this
• 52:54
  Dynamic where like particularly if you've not like worked a office job or not office job
• 53:00
  But you know like a salaries job
• 53:03
  For say 10 years and then you're having to go out and face the idea of how am I going to make money or how am I
• 53:10
  Even if you get a decent amount that
• 53:13
  Doesn't last forever like it would be so overwhelming or even to the overwhelming as of learning about
• 53:19
  Your couples finance as if you had no idea. Yeah, you know, you've just learned that hey
• 53:23
  We actually didn't have as much as we thought or we had way more and my partners in absolute
• 53:29
  DICK, you know, like it's it would be quite
• 53:34
  Emotionally
• 53:35
  Exhausted and actually having your life turned upside down and we're okay now
• 53:38
  I need to actually get on the job hunt and got you know like yeah
• 53:41
  Yeah, and one of the things that's nice in in Australia is number step number three in those four steps from a legal perspective is talks about future needs
• 53:51
  So if you haven't been in the workforce for a while
• 53:54
  Then it should tilt a bit more in your favor to give you the time to start training to find those jobs and you know allow you
• 54:02
  To get out there and and again earn money to be on your own to feet
• 54:05
  But it's about getting control over each step as you go
• 54:11
  There are things that you can do immediately and there are some things that you need to do over time
• 54:15
  And then you hit pause and then you wait until settlement. They're all different so the rebuild which is in my
• 54:22
  trajectory is stage four
• 54:25
  That's when you're starting to go okay full autonomy over everything. This is what I'm earning
• 54:30
  This is the assets that I have
• 54:32
  This is what I can save or this is what I need to meet my spending habit
• 54:37
  How do I rebuild myself from here? What do I do to make use of these investments?
• 54:41
  I've got or this money that I'm earning to help me build for the future and everybody's situation is different
• 54:48
  but
• 54:49
  to be
• 54:51
  When you're saying about the overwhelming which it is for everybody because it's very very very emotional and depending on whether you knew about
• 54:59
  This coming or whether you called it. It's still emotional and you want to step through and be kind to self
• 55:06
  I say
• 55:07
  You know, we take our car to get service. We don't service it ourselves
• 55:11
  We need to do the same to get the support that we need with our finances and have somebody step you through it
• 55:18
  So that then it's not overwhelming and you can actually see yourself achieving things
• 55:24
  Which builds your confidence and allows you then to get to that point where you are on your own two feet and staying there
• 55:30
  And you feel better you feel hopeful you feel like I've got my future planned
• 55:35
  I'm not scared anymore because I can see how this is all coming together and it's actually happening because I'm stepping through it
• 55:41
  God, I feel grateful to be learning thus though now and not in a
• 55:45
  peak emotional state of my family breaking up and having to think about
• 55:50
  I communicate to a six-year-old what's happening to mummy and daddy like I just feel so like at least you can focus on that and not
• 55:58
  Yeah, and I think that I
• 56:00
  I was thinking as you were speaking like the shift
• 56:03
  I think that's happened in me over the last four years from learning about money
• 56:08
  And investing and how to manage my pay when it comes in and all of that has given me this inherent
• 56:13
  confidence that
• 56:15
  I know I will be okay if I never fall in love or meet somebody who can be my
• 56:22
  Plan man or whatever that saying is about having a financial plan is having a man or whatever you said at the start of this conversation
• 56:28
  And knowing that I have the control to work harder to save more to
• 56:34
  Choose how I spend my money. I'm really grateful for this podcast and for the learning that we've done that
• 56:40
  I'm doing that now and not in a state of like heightened emotional stress
• 56:44
  But what are the mindset shifts or the transformations that you see in those women who
• 56:52
  Perhaps didn't have this before have gone through their divorce separation
• 56:58
  Come out the other side feeling more confident and and empowered what
• 57:02
  What is it that you see and like what is the really like obvious visceral
• 57:07
  Ways that they respond to the new found
• 57:10
  Education or confidence they then have run money
• 57:13
  Yes, so I think initially it's very overwhelming and they think oh I can't do it and this is really hard
• 57:20
  But when you start to map out with them what their values are and what goals they want to achieve for themselves
• 57:26
  Whether actually make decisions totally around what they want for going forward
• 57:31
  Sometimes if it's raw it's still a bit of a mist
• 57:34
  Through various values conversations you can get an idea about where they're going to head to anywhere
• 57:39
  So you can pull them through
• 57:41
  But the other part is around the investment. I remember one lady who I do everything on the whiteboard and when
• 57:47
  I was talking through different investments and how the approaches are and things to think about
• 57:52
  She's sat back initially with her arms folded thinking I won't get any of this
• 57:56
  But after the discussion she was like oh I totally get that
• 58:00
  So I couldn't run the seminar on it, but I get it and I think that's what
• 58:05
  What is great is that people are actually taking charge and getting knowledge
• 58:10
  To move themselves forward. So it's a it's a wonderful wonderful gift to give to anybody
• 58:15
  I remember someone said to me like work you've survived a hundred percent of your bad days
• 58:20
  So far you'll be fine. You know, I love that of course. Oh, that's a really beautiful way to look at it
• 58:27
  I love that. It's so true. I love that. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah
• 58:32
  Can we just finish with one final sort of as take away for anyone that's listening
• 58:37
  Or anyone that's engaging with your work in general. What do you hope for women to remember and take away when it comes the idea of surviving the split?
• 58:46
  Yeah, I think it's it's a big caplunk in your life
• 58:49
  But it doesn't have to define your life in fact for a lot of people
• 58:52
  It's the freedom to get on and live the life that they want because there's a lot of compromise that generally happens in relationships
• 58:59
  where you know sometimes maybe
• 59:02
  You you know sacrifice that or you became less than yourself and now you get to this point where you like
• 59:08
  Yeah, I'm doing me. I'm finding me again or I'm getting on my own to fit. I'm being able to achieve these things
• 59:14
  So I think that's the wonderful part of it is is getting to see people transform really it's like going from the little
• 59:22
  Chrysler's to the butterfly. Oh thank you so much for being on the podcast
• 59:27
  It was awesome to speak to you and meet you. Yes, and you're doing God's work over there. Yes, keep it up
• 59:32
  Please. Yeah. Yeah. No, thank you so much. How and that's I found that personally really helpful
• 59:37
  And I'm sure many many other women will so thank you anyone wants to find your work and communicate or reach out to you
• 59:43
  Where is it that they can find that or buy your books? Yeah
• 59:46
  Just on on your own to feet.com.au we have some bits on there and the books are all on the
• 59:52
  Amazon's we've got the audio book coming out for divorce if you just want to listen to it while you're running or something
• 59:57
  Don't want the book around your house lots of different options
• 1:00:01
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• 1:00:06
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• 1:00:10
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• 1:00:12
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