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Pope Francis Dead: Who will be the next Pope · The Infographics Show Podcast

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  Speaker 1: Welcome to beyond infographics. Today we're taking a deep dive
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  Speaker 1: into something truly significant happening right now, the passing of
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  Speaker 1: Pope Francis this past Monday, April twenty first, twenty five.
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  Speaker 1: You've probably seen the headlines, but we really want to
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  Speaker 1: get beyond that surface coverage. Our goal here is to
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  Speaker 1: understand the well the intricate process that kicks off now
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  Speaker 1: inside the Catholic Church, specifically how the next Pope gets elected.
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  Speaker 1: It's this really fascinating mix of you know, ancient traditions
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  Speaker 1: and modern realities. We're going to unpack it all.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is fascinating. What strikes you immediately is
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  Speaker 2: how precise the sequence of actions is. Right after Pote
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  Speaker 2: France has passed away, which was formally announced by Cardinal
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  Speaker 2: Kevin Ferrell, the Camera LNGO. Once the body was moved,
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  Speaker 2: a whole set of protocols just clicks into place. This
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  Speaker 2: isn't just morning, It's a well meticulously planned transition.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, really dig into that role of the camer LNGO.
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  Speaker 1: Cardinal Ferrell seems to have a huge amount of responsibility,
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  Speaker 1: like straight away.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely huge. His immediate duties start with formally declaring
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  Speaker 2: the Pope's death. Now that might sound a bit you know,
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  Speaker 2: procedural in our age, but it carries real ritual weight.
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  Speaker 2: Then he's got the critical job of informing key people.
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  Speaker 1: Like who who's first on the list.
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  Speaker 2: Well, the Cardinal Vicar of Rome for one, and then
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  Speaker 2: the diplomatic corps, you know, the ambassadors to the Holy See.
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  Speaker 2: That's handled through the Dean of the College of Cardinals,
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  Speaker 2: who is Cardinal Giovanni Batista Ree. Right Now, it's a
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  Speaker 2: very structured way of getting the word.
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  Speaker 1: Out, so it's not just a press release. There's a
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  Speaker 1: very specific order, a hierarchy of notification exactly.
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  Speaker 2: And beyond telling people, the camer Lngo has some very
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  Speaker 2: practical jobs too. He oversees sealing the papal apartment where
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  Speaker 2: Pope Francis lived in the Domo Sancte Marta, and his
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  Speaker 2: private study gets sealed and his personal paper secured. It's
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  Speaker 2: really about preserving the integrity of well everything during this gap.
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  Speaker 1: And does that extend into the big Vatican properties as well,
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  Speaker 1: like the palaces.
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  Speaker 2: It does. Yeah, the camer l Ango formally takes possession
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  Speaker 2: of places like the Apostolic Palace the latter in Basilica,
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  Speaker 2: even Castel Gandolfo, the Summer Residents. You could sort of
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  Speaker 2: think of him as the head caretaker.
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  Speaker 1: For a bit, a temporary steward.
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  Speaker 2: Exactly managing the essentials, but within really clearly defined boundaries.
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  Speaker 2: He can't overstep until there's a new pope.
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  Speaker 1: Right. It sounds like a real balancing act, holding authority
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  Speaker 1: but not you know, exceeding the mandate. Now, what about
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  Speaker 1: the funeral We heard Pope Francis had some specific wishes.
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  Speaker 2: Ah. Yes, this is where it gets particularly interesting. It
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  Speaker 2: gives you a glimpse into his personality, maybe even his
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  Speaker 2: view on tradition. The camer l Ango works with senior
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  Speaker 2: cardinals on the funeral plans. And yes, Pope Francis definitely
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  Speaker 2: wanted some changes from the usual customs, like what for example, Well,
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  Speaker 2: for instance, he apparently preferred being placed directly into a
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  Speaker 2: simple coffin for people to pay respects, skipping the whole
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  Speaker 2: lying in state on a formal litter. He also chose
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  Speaker 2: just a single plain wooden coffin, not the traditional three coffins,
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  Speaker 2: one inside the other. It feels very much in line
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  Speaker 2: with his focus on simplicity, doesn't it.
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  Speaker 1: It really does a tangible reflection of his whole pontificate
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  Speaker 1: kind of.
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  Speaker 2: Indeed, and there's more. He clearly stated he wanted to
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  Speaker 2: be buried in the basilica of Saint Mary Major. That's
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  Speaker 2: quite significant.
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  Speaker 1: Why significant? Don't most popes get buried in Saint Peter's
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  Speaker 1: most do?
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  Speaker 2: Yes? Saint Peter's is the traditional papal resting place. Only
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  Speaker 2: a few popes are buried in Saint Mary Major, so
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  Speaker 2: it makes his request pretty distinctive.
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  Speaker 1: Interesting And in today's world with cameras everywhere, what are
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  Speaker 1: the rules around images photos after the pope's passing?
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  Speaker 2: Good question. The Camera LNGO enforces strict rules there too. Generally,
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  Speaker 2: photos of recordings on the sick bed or after death
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  Speaker 2: are forbidden. If any photos are needed for documentary purposes,
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  Speaker 2: he has to give explicit permission, and even then the
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  Speaker 2: Pope must be shown in his official vestments. It's all
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  Speaker 2: about maintaining solemnity and respect, okay, And.
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  Speaker 1: All these immediate steps they lead into a formal morning period, right,
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  Speaker 1: the Novendial.
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  Speaker 2: That's right. The Novendial is the official nine day morning period,
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  Speaker 2: filled with specific rights and prayers and tradition says the
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  Speaker 2: Pope's burial should happen within six days of his death.
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  Speaker 1: So while all this is going on, the funeral plans
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  Speaker 1: the morning. How is the church actually governed? You hear
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  Speaker 1: the term saree vacante? What does that mean?
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  Speaker 2: Practically, say vacante. Yeah, it's Latin literally the seat being vacant.
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  Speaker 2: It just refers to this in between time, the interregnum
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  Speaker 2: between popes. During this period, the College of Cardinals as
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  Speaker 2: a group takes on some authority. They handle routine business,
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  Speaker 2: unavoidable matters, but and this is really important, they absolutely
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  Speaker 2: cannot make major decisions or change things the previous pope
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  Speaker 2: to preed. It's strictly about keeping things running, maintaining the
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  Speaker 2: status quo.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so it's like making sure the ship keeps sailing,
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  Speaker 1: but not changing its course.
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  Speaker 2: That's a great way to put it. Essential functions continue,
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  Speaker 2: but no new directions are set. Officials stay on, like
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  Speaker 2: the camer Lango and the major penitentiary. He deals with
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  Speaker 2: confessions in certain spiritual matters, but their powers are limited
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  Speaker 2: mostly from minor day to day things. Big stuff waits
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  Speaker 2: for the new pope. The heads of the Vatican departments
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  Speaker 2: of the diecasseries also stay, but they are reported to
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  Speaker 2: the College of Cardinals.
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  Speaker 1: Now, so the College acts like a collective caretaker board
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  Speaker 1: pretty much.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, the karen Legos, specifically with the okay from the
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  Speaker 2: whole College is tasked with guarding the rights and administration
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  Speaker 2: of the Apostolic Seat basically the Pope's office and the
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  Speaker 2: central Church government. And interestingly, the College of Cardinals also
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  Speaker 2: holds civil power over Vatican City state itself during this time,
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  Speaker 2: but they can only issue decrees if something's really urgent.
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  Speaker 1: Right, this all feels like it's building towards the main event,
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  Speaker 1: doesn't it the conclave to elect the next Pope. How
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  Speaker 1: does that whole process actually start?
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  Speaker 2: It starts with something called general congregations. Think of them
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  Speaker 2: as daily meetings for the entire College of Cardinals. Everyone attends,
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  Speaker 2: even cardinals over eighty who can't actually vote in the conclave.
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  Speaker 2: These meetings are led by the dean of the College.
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  Speaker 1: Cardinal ree and what's on the agenda for these big meetings.
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  Speaker 2: Several key things. They finalize arrangements for viewing the pope's body.
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  Speaker 2: They lock down all the funeral details, remembering that burial
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  Speaker 2: within four to six days rule. They also review any
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  Speaker 2: specific instructions Pope Francis might have left for them. They
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  Speaker 2: approve necessary Vatican expenses during this period, and they arrange
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  Speaker 2: for the destruction of the Fisherman's Ring and the papal seal.
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  Speaker 1: Ah. The Fisherman's ring, that's such a potent symbol, isn't
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  Speaker 1: it breaking? It feels very final.
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  Speaker 2: It absolutely is destroying. It officially marks the end of
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  Speaker 2: that specific papacy and practically prevents anyone misusing the seal.
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  Speaker 2: These general meetings also have a spiritual side. They choose
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  Speaker 2: two respected figures to give meditations talks really to the cardinals.
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  Speaker 2: These focus on the challenges the church is facing and
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  Speaker 2: crucially the need for careful discernment in picking the next pope.
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  Speaker 1: So it's a mix of very practical logistics and deep
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  Speaker 1: spiritual preparation. You mentioned particular congregation too, How are they different.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, those are smaller groups, kind of like executive subcommittees.
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  Speaker 2: They handle the more routine daily admin stuff that still
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  Speaker 2: needs doing. The camera Lango leads them, joined by three
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  Speaker 2: other cardinals chosen by lottery, one from each rank, bishop,
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  Speaker 2: priest and deacon, and these three rotate every three days
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  Speaker 2: right up until the conclave starts. Like we said, anything
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  Speaker 2: really important gets bumped up to the main General congregation.
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  Speaker 1: Got it? And what's the usual timing for the conclave
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  Speaker 1: itself to begin?
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  Speaker 2: Church law says it should normally start between fifteen and
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  Speaker 2: twenty days after the pope dies. That window gives the
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  Speaker 2: cardinal electors, the ones under eighty, enough time to travel
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  Speaker 2: to Rome from all over the world. The College can
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  Speaker 2: technically push it back a few days if there's a
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  Speaker 2: serious reason, but it absolutely has to start within twenty
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  Speaker 2: days of the pope's death.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so the stage is set, cardinals are gathering in Rome.
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  Speaker 1: Then what we're heading into the conclave itself, which is
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  Speaker 1: famously secret. And hey, if you're finding this deep dive
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: into the papal transition useful, maybe consider giving beyond and
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: for graphics of five star rating. It genuinely helps others
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  Speaker 1: find this kind of detailed discussion.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, the conclave, it takes place inside the Cystine Chapel.
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  Speaker 2: And when they say sealed off, they mean it. The
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  Speaker 2: location is completely cut off from the outside world. No phones,
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  Speaker 2: no Internet, no newspapers, nothing, total communication blackout. The cardinals
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  Speaker 2: themselves live in the Domas Sancte Marta that guest house
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  Speaker 2: inside the Vatican during the whole process.
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  Speaker 1: Wow, And how does it formally kick off?
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  Speaker 2: It begins with a special mass, the Mass pro Eligendo
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  Speaker 2: Papa for the election of a pope. After that, the
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  Speaker 2: cardinal electors process together into the Cystine Chapel.
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  Speaker 1: Who's in charge inside the chapel? Who runs the voting.
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  Speaker 2: Well, normally it would be the dean or subdeine, but both
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  Speaker 2: cardinal re and the subdeene are over eighty so they
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  Speaker 2: can't vote. So the presiding role falls to the most
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  Speaker 2: senior cardinal bishop who is eligible to vote right now,
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  Speaker 2: that's Cardinal Pietro Perilin. He oversees the voting sessions and
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  Speaker 2: he also administers the oath of secrecy to all the
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  Speaker 2: electors solemn moment, stressing how vital confidentiality is.
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  Speaker 1: That secrecy feels so central to the whole idea letting
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  Speaker 1: the cardinals vote without any outside pressure, I guess, So
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  Speaker 1: walk us through the voting itself. How does it work?
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  Speaker 2: Okay? Usually on the first afternoon they have just one ballot,
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  Speaker 2: one round of voting. Then on the following days they
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  Speaker 2: vote four times a day, two rounds in the morning,
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  Speaker 2: two in the afternoon. To get elected, a candidate needs
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  Speaker 2: a two thirds majority of the votes.
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  Speaker 1: Two thirds that's a high bar.
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  Speaker 2: It is after each ballot the votes are counted and
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  Speaker 2: then burned in a special stove right there in the
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  Speaker 2: Sistine Chapel. The smoke goes up a temporary chimney, and
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  Speaker 2: that's where the famous smoke signals come from. Black smoke
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  Speaker 2: fu moutin Era means no pope yet, white smoke fu
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  Speaker 2: Manabianca means success. A new pope has been chosen.
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  Speaker 1: That image of the smoke is just iconic, isn't it
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  Speaker 1: telling the whole world what's happening inside those walls. What
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  Speaker 1: if they don't reach that two thirds majority quickly? What
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  Speaker 1: if they get deadlocked?
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  Speaker 2: Good question? If there's no election. After three full days
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  Speaker 2: of voting, the process pauses for a day day set
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  Speaker 2: aside for prayer, reflection, and importantly informal discussion among the cardinals.
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  Speaker 2: The senior cardinal Deacon, currently Dominique Momberti, gives a short
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  Speaker 2: spiritual talk to It's designed as a moment to kind
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  Speaker 2: of step back, maybe rethink things, seek some guidance.
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  Speaker 1: A built in pause to break a potential impasse. What
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  Speaker 1: if even that doesn't work.
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  Speaker 2: If they go through another seven rounds of voting after
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  Speaker 2: that first pause and still don't have a Pope, there's
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  Speaker 2: another pause for prayer and reflection. If they reach a
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  Speaker 2: serious deadlock, specifically after thirty three rounds of voting in total,
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  Speaker 2: the rules change slightly. It then moves to a runoff
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  Speaker 2: ballot between the two cardinals who got the most votes
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  Speaker 2: on the previous round. But, and this is key, the
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  Speaker 2: winner of that runoff still needs a two thirds majority
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  Speaker 2: to be elected pope.
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  Speaker 1: Still two thirds even in a runoff.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, that rule was reinforced by Pope Benedict the six
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  Speaker 2: to sixth. It emphasizes the need for a really strong consensus,
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  Speaker 2: not just a simple majority, even in a difficult situation.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, one more detail about the conclave. What about cardinals
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  Speaker 1: named in pector those secret appointments. Can they show up
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  Speaker 1: and vote.
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  Speaker 2: Ah and Piktor in the breast? No, those cardinals can't
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  Speaker 2: participate unless the Pope had publicly announced their name before
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  Speaker 2: he died. Their appointment isn't official yet, so they aren't
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  Speaker 2: part of the college for the purposes of the conclave.
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  Speaker 1: Got it. So let's say the voting happens, the ballots
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  Speaker 1: are burned and finally white smoke. What happens in those
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  Speaker 1: immediate moments after a pope is elected.
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  Speaker 2: Right, So, as soon as a cardinal gets that two
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  Speaker 2: thirds majority, Cardinal Perolyn, as a senior cardinal bishop presiding,
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  Speaker 2: goes to him and asks two crucial questions. First, do
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  Speaker 2: you accept your canonical election as supreme pontiff? And second,
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  Speaker 2: by what name do you wish.
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  Speaker 1: To be called? And assuming he says yes.
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  Speaker 2: The moment he accepts bam, he is immediately the Bishop
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  Speaker 2: of Rome, the pope, head of the College of Bishops.
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  Speaker 2: He instantly has full and supreme power over the church,
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  Speaker 2: and technically the conclave ends right then, unless the new
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  Speaker 2: pope decides to keep the cardinals.
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  Speaker 1: Together for some ree wow instantaneous authority. And then how
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  Speaker 1: does the rest of the world find out?
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  Speaker 2: That's the job of the senior cardinal deacon again currently
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  Speaker 2: Cardinal Manbardy. He goes out onto the central balcony of
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  Speaker 2: Saint Peter's Basilica and he makes that thing as announcement
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  Speaker 2: hub him as pop polm we have a pope. Then
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  Speaker 2: shortly after that, the new Pope himself comes out onto
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  Speaker 2: the balcony to give his first greeting and blessing the
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  Speaker 2: irby at Orby to the city and the world.
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  Speaker 1: It really is an incredible process. When you lay it
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  Speaker 1: all out, the sheer weight of history, the detail the
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  Speaker 1: tradition involved in selecting the leader of the Catholic Church,
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  Speaker 1: it's well, it's unlike anything else.
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  Speaker 2: It really is. It's a system that's been shaped over centuries,
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  Speaker 2: constantly trying to balance these ancient rituals with the practical
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  Speaker 2: needs of governing a global faith. What stands out most
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  Speaker 2: to you about it all?
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  Speaker 1: For me, I think it's that blend of the spiritual
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  Speaker 1: and the highly practical, almost legalistic. You have intense prayer
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  Speaker 1: and talk of discernment right alongside very specific rules about voting,
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  Speaker 1: ceiling rooms and destroying rings. It highlights that dual nature
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  Speaker 1: spiritual body, global institution.
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  Speaker 2: That's a very good point, and the whole thing really
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  Speaker 2: from the moment Pope Francis passed until that hobe miss
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  Speaker 2: Papam announcement, it's all geared towards ensuring continuity stability. It's
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  Speaker 2: a system designed to produce a legitimate leader, guided in
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  Speaker 2: their belief by the Holy Spirit. For what one point
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  Speaker 2: four billion Catholics around the globe.
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  Speaker 1: So just to bring it all together for everyone listening,
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  Speaker 1: we've journeyed through the immediate actions after the pope's death,
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  Speaker 1: looked at how the church is governed during the seat
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  Speaker 1: of Vicante, and walked through the detailed steps of the
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  Speaker 1: conclave itself. It's a powerful look at how tradition persists
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  Speaker 1: and functions even in our fast moving world, and it.
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  Speaker 2: Leads us with a pretty big question to think about,
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  Speaker 2: doesn't it. As this whole process unfolds, and considering all
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  Speaker 2: the challenges the Church faces today, what do you think
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  Speaker 2: will be the most pressing issues, the biggest challenges facing
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  Speaker 2: whoever emerges from that Cysteine Chapel as the next pope.
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  Speaker 2: Something definitely worth pondering.
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  Speaker 1: Indeed, Well, thank you for joining us on Beyond Infolks
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  Speaker 1: Graphics for this deep dive into a truly historic moment.
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  Speaker 1: We hope it's given you a much clearer picture of
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  Speaker 1: everything involved.