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Hangin' Out with Bob ('All Star Wrestling' memories with Wayne and Al Damerow) · Hangin' Out with Bob

0:07
Okay, welcome to Hanging Out with Bob, a podcast
0:09
hosted by me, Bob at Home. Thanks for joining
0:16
us and let's get started. Alright folks, buckle
0:24
up. We're about to dive headfirst into a topic
0:26
so explosive, it's like a power body slam in
0:29
the middle of the ring. This is going to be a
0:31
no -holds -barred, no -disqualification podcast
0:34
about the old school days, the glory days of
0:37
professional wrestling. So let's ring the bell
0:39
and let the action begin. Today's podcast will
0:44
be a three -man tag team, if you will. That's
0:47
because today on Hanging Out with Bob, I'm teaming
0:49
up with not one, but two guests. Guests who happen
0:52
to be brothers, in fact. So let me introduce
0:54
them to you now. In one corner, out of Shoreview,
0:58
Minnesota, is Wayne Damrow, who's been a guest
1:00
on a couple of previous podcasts. Welcome back,
1:02
Wayne. Thanks, Bob. Good to be here. And in the
1:09
other corner, out of New Brighton, Minnesota,
1:11
is his brother Al Damrow. Welcome to Hanging
1:13
Out with Bob, Al. Thank you for having me, Bob.
1:19
All right, just some quick background on my tag
1:21
team partners. All three of us grew up in Columbia
1:24
Heights, Minnesota. The Heights. Wayne Damro
1:27
and I have known each other since we were both
1:28
nine -year -old boys. Wayne worked nearly 40
1:31
years with the Minnesota DNR in the forestry
1:33
department that included assignments all across
1:36
the state of Minnesota. He's married and lives
1:38
in suburban Shoreview. And Al, well, he's Wayne's
1:41
little brother, even though he appears to be
1:43
the taller of the two now. Al is five years younger
1:46
than Wayne and me, and when you're kids, five
1:48
years of age difference seems like 10. but now
1:51
some 60 plus years later as aging baby boomers.
1:54
Well, we're all on Medicare, right? That's right.
1:59
Al has retired from the U .S. Postal Service
2:01
where he worked for 35 years. Al now works for
2:05
his kids on a part -time basis. He lives in suburban
2:07
New Brighton, has five grown children and three
2:11
grandkids. So, on to our topic. Old school professional
2:20
wrestling. The glory days, as I like to call
2:22
it. And because the three of us were raised in
2:25
the twin cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul,
2:27
it meant the brand of wrestling that we watched
2:29
on TV was, I'm trying to channel Roger Kent here,
2:33
the AWA, the American Wrestling Association.
2:40
Some quick history. The AWA, the American Wrestling
2:43
Association, was a promotion based in Minneapolis.
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It ran from 1960 until 1991. It was founded by
2:51
Vern Ganya and Wally Carbo, names that the three
2:54
of us are very familiar with, more on them in
2:57
a bit. And for the purposes of this podcast,
2:59
I want to focus on the all -star wrestling shows
3:01
that we watched as kids in the 1960s and 1970s,
3:06
back in the days when there were regional wrestling
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territories all over the country. And the AWA
3:11
happened to be one of the most successful regional
3:13
wrestling territories in the business. The AWA
3:16
itself was born out of the Minneapolis Boxing
3:18
and Wrestling Club, originally founded in 1933
3:21
when our folks were kids. The Minneapolis Boxing
3:25
and Wrestling Club served as the Minnesota -based
3:27
territory of the National Wrestling Alliance,
3:30
or NWA, from 1948 onward, before breaking away
3:34
from the NWA and becoming an independent territory,
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the AWA, 1960. And what that meant for Wayne,
3:41
Al, and me as kids in the 1960s on Saturday evenings,
3:45
we would look forward to sitting down in front
3:47
of our TVs, our black and white TVs, to watch
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All -Star Wrestling on Channel 11, WTCN. The
3:55
legendary Marty O 'Neil was the ring announcer,
3:57
as well as post -match interviewer for the local
4:00
audience, while another iconic announcer, Roger
4:03
Kent, provided commentary for the syndicated
4:05
version. Just a quick aside, guys, and maybe
4:07
you already knew this. The AWA territory was
4:10
actually quite large. Besides Minneapolis and
4:12
St. Paul, All -Star Wrestling was shown in many
4:15
other cities, including Chicago, Denver, Green
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Bay, Las Vegas, Milwaukee, Omaha, Phoenix, Salt
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Lake City, San Francisco, and Winnipeg, Canada,
4:30
eh? Okay, Wayne, and now here's a question out
4:32
of left field for you guys. Did your mom... let
4:35
you guys watch All Star Wrestling while you were
4:38
eating your dinner? No. Maybe after he moved
4:44
out of the house or something, then she changed,
4:46
but no, we couldn't watch Star Trek and we couldn't
4:48
watch wrestling while you're eating dinner. I
4:51
said, I remember watching Kung Fu and wrestling
4:54
and all those different rules for different brothers,
4:58
I guess. See, I think shows like All Star Wrestling
5:02
are the reason TV trays were invented. Sure.
5:07
My mom knew that our dad and her boys like to
5:09
watch wrestling every Saturday night, so she
5:11
started serving us dinner on TV trays in the
5:14
living room. Pizza burgers, pizza, Swanson TV
5:18
dinners, yummy stuff. Banquet. Yeah, banquet
5:22
too. Cheaper. And beans and hot dogs. Yep, yep.
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As long as you can watch our matches, you know,
5:28
that's all that matters. Those TV wrestling matches,
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by the way, were broadcast from a studio not
5:34
much bigger than my apartment here. That studio
5:38
was at the Calhoun Beach Club in Minneapolis,
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across the street from Lake Calhoun, where the
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lake is now called Paday Makaska. There might
5:46
have been a hundred or so fans in the crowd at
5:48
that studio, as I recall, but they were definitely
5:51
into it. Now, did either of you guys ever go
5:54
to those televised matches in the Calhoun Beach
5:56
Club? I didn't. I went to a couple and I think
5:59
a hundred would be pushing it. Really? When I
6:02
was there it was maybe 75 but they were loud
6:05
some of them were drunk and very enthused about
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it. Yeah I always wished I could have gone to
6:12
one of those tapings but it it just didn't work
6:14
out I never did so. Okay guys, I'd like to have
6:22
each of you talk about your earliest memories
6:24
of all -star wrestling on TV and name some of
6:27
the wrestlers that you really remember from the
6:29
60s and 70s. Go ahead and just rattle off some
6:32
names. For myself, my favorite memory of wrestling
6:36
is watching the matches with my grandmother and
6:40
watching her scream and yell and throw pillows
6:43
at the TV when anyone would do something to her
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precious veringanya. It was violent. We learned
6:50
some really good words that our mother was shocked
6:53
that we knew from grandma because someone would
6:56
hit Vern with the low blow. Personally, growing
7:02
up, I mean, Vern, yeah, I liked him, but I liked
7:06
Mad Dog Bashan. I liked the Kamelkoff brothers
7:08
in the 60s. They were a tag team. The Russians.
7:12
Yep. From South India. And I kind of liked a
7:20
couple of the guys that claimed to be from Canada,
7:22
Red Lions and Red Bastines, even though he was
7:26
born in North Dakota, he played off on the Canadian.
7:31
And he had to like Mad Dog Bashan and his, quote,
7:35
brother, the butcher. The butcher, yeah. Well,
7:37
and then they always say he was from Algeria.
7:39
Yes. And they were both from Quebec. Yeah. And
7:42
he also claimed to have fought in the French
7:44
Foreign Legion. Right. I like Baron von Raschke.
7:50
He was one of my faves. With the claw. And the
7:53
crusher, oh my god. He was iconic. He was huge
7:57
there in the early 60s. The crusher was probably
8:00
the most fun with his whole beer and stick and
8:03
his Milwaukee. My mother used to laugh at him.
8:07
First of all, the way he talked. He was over
8:09
the top. He was way over the top and he'd always
8:11
talk about that bum, that turkey neck. Speaking
8:15
of that, did you ever hear the song? Yeah, yeah.
8:19
Some guy did that song pretending to be the Crusher.
8:21
The group was called the Novas from Minneapolis.
8:24
It was like, do the hammer lock. Exactly. But
8:26
didn't the Crusher sewer, somehow they stopped
8:29
playing that? I'm not sure. Because I don't think
8:31
he got anything from that. Probably not. He just
8:34
released it and played it. So, well, I remember
8:38
the first wrestling match I saw on TV. I was
8:41
about eight years old. I was still living in
8:43
Northeast. We hadn't moved up to the Heights
8:44
yet. And my grandparents were over and we had
8:48
dinner and then we were watching the TV and the
8:51
All Star Wrestling came on. And I remember this
8:54
wrestler, he wore a mask and he had the letter
8:58
M on his forehead. His name is Mr. M. And he
9:01
was wrestling some other guy and they both looked
9:03
like they're pretty good wrestlers But mr. M
9:05
was kind of a rule breaker and I think at the
9:07
end he pinned that guy I think he was pulling
9:09
on his trunks You know that famous thing an atomic
9:13
wedgie and then but the best part about the wrestling
9:16
is I remember TV were those interviews right
9:19
afterward Oh sure, you know the purpose of these
9:21
TV matches were to promote the house matches
9:23
that were coming up, you know, they're going
9:25
to wrestle in the bigger auditoriums. But, you
9:27
know, he was being, you know, nasty and, and
9:30
he was looking right at the camera. He wasn't
9:31
really even talking to Marty. He was just, you
9:33
know, making his point. And he kept saying he
9:34
wanted to wrestle over in Ghana for the championship,
9:36
you know, so. And he was, he was a good heel,
9:40
you know, and, and Vern, of course, was anything
9:42
but a heel. You know, he was, you know, Minnesota
9:44
born, you know, he. Hero at the University of
9:47
Minnesota. Yeah, he played football. National
9:49
Championship wrestler. Yeah. National Championship
9:51
wrestler. And I think he even, I don't know if
9:53
he wrestled for the MPC team or qualified or
9:55
whatever it was, but he was, he did all the Greco
9:58
and. regular freestyle stuff. And I think it
10:01
was just natural to kind of ascend or go toward
10:04
professionalism because they can make some money
10:06
at it, you know, so actual big money. Yep. Yep.
10:09
Yep. I had a quick question for you guys. Do
10:13
you remember who Mr. M was? or you mean who?
10:19
I remember the character and I remember Dr. X
10:21
who came out who was famous for pulling the piece
10:25
of glass out from under his thing and giving
10:27
it to the foreign object but I don't remember
10:30
his name. Well I was only about nine or ten now
10:33
so you would have been really young then. I remember
10:35
Vern Gagne, well he lost the championship to
10:38
Vern Gagne at one point but then he regained
10:39
it back and I think during that championship
10:41
match Vern actually pulled his mask off. Okay,
10:45
and we found out the guy's real name was Bill
10:47
Miller That was his he was from Ohio or something.
10:50
He's a big guy. He was like six six to ninety
10:53
That's what he's listed as I think sometimes
10:55
his weights may have been a little inflated course
10:57
They had Greg I'm you listed as 240 Right. Yeah,
11:01
I think they took some liberties with the with
11:04
that stuff. Yes, I Just remember it was Bill
11:09
Miller He was born in 1927 and he passed away
11:12
in 1997 at age 69. So. Let's go. Let's talk a
11:23
little bit more about the format of those weekly
11:25
All -Star Wrestling shows. as you would call
11:28
the matches normally lasted just a few minutes.
11:30
They didn't really go for long because I think
11:32
the main purpose was to to plug the house matches
11:35
coming up, you know, and go to the interviews
11:37
and commercials. You can't forget the Geritol.
11:41
Yeah. Yeah. Gerospeed. It was, I think he based
11:46
it off Geritol, but it was for basically for
11:49
geriatrics. Yeah. The people, well, they knew
11:52
their demographics. I read somewhere that Verne,
11:56
this is before the days of online sales, obviously,
11:59
but he sold Jera Speed like at one place in downtown
12:02
Minneapolis. I mean, how many people are going
12:04
to make a point of going downtown and buying
12:06
Jera Speed? The marketing, you wondered about
12:09
who were the marketing people. I don't remember
12:14
seeing it in supermarket aisles. I don't know.
12:16
Maybe he couldn't get it sold at pharmacies or
12:20
anything like that. But Jera Speed. Yeah, and
12:24
he did the isometric thing too, Wayne, you alluded
12:27
to. He kind of pushed that. I remember him doing
12:29
that. Yeah, and suddenly you're going to be a
12:32
bodybuilder, you know. What made the, and you
12:37
guys know this too, what made the TV show so
12:41
entertaining though was its predictable unpredictability.
12:46
you know, would go all haywire, you know, there'd
12:48
be a guy wrestling and all of a sudden his enemy
12:50
would interfere with the match or he'd come in
12:53
the ring and start fighting him or, or a guy
12:55
would be doing interviews. And during the interview,
12:57
the other guy would come in and then they'd start
12:59
fighting and Wally Carbo would get called in.
13:02
There will be fines and suspensions. And who
13:07
can forget how easily distracted the referees
13:10
were, where the girl on the side would stand
13:12
up and distract them, while the other guys would
13:14
get them and just knock the guy down and cheat
13:17
like mad. And the ref would never notice. They'd
13:19
never see him pull those objects out of their
13:21
trunks. In fact, they'd knock Dr. Ritchell and
13:24
the guys. He'd actually put some piece of metal
13:26
in his forehead. He'd put it inside the mask,
13:28
and then when he hit, the guy would knock him
13:30
out and stuff, and the ref never saw it. They
13:33
weren't using the replays. Okay, but again the
13:39
purpose of those TV matches were to promote the
13:42
the house shows because and if you remember back
13:45
then they never televised those I mean the whole
13:47
idea is to get people to go to the games or to
13:49
the matches I should say and They did pretty
13:53
well. In this one book, they talk about the size
13:56
of the crowds. Yeah. And anywhere from 6 ,000
14:00
to 10 ,000. Yeah, yeah. People would go see wrestling.
14:03
Did you guys ever go to the auditorium to see?
14:06
I went a few times. I was in high school once,
14:10
and I think I went to a couple times other than
14:12
that. But yeah, they were they were full. Yeah,
14:16
I went two or three times. We'd get a couple
14:18
of friends and we'd go out. Did you buy the tickets
14:21
there? You didn't get them in advance? No. Yeah,
14:24
because you just decide to go spur them on. What
14:27
are we doing? Hey, let's go out and watch them.
14:28
It's like, see who's who's going to whoop on
14:31
who? Yeah. Yeah, that's that's what I did. And
14:33
it was interesting because, you know, the ticket.
14:37
booth or ticket window, it was just packed inside
14:39
that foyer when you go inside. And it was great,
14:42
I went in the wintertime, it was freezing, it
14:44
was like today, it was cold. So we were inside,
14:46
it was nice, but it just walled all people. I
14:48
gotta believe the fire marshal would say, yay,
14:50
this is dangerous. And the ladies were by far
14:54
and away louder at the matches I was at. They
14:57
were more into it, they're screaming for blood.
15:00
I even saw some women fighting. They might have
15:04
been drinking too, but they were fighting in
15:06
the crowd. Wrestling matches would get you worked
15:10
up in a frenzy, it really would. But I did that
15:14
maybe a few times, I didn't go every time. When
15:19
they used to plug those matches, I can remember
15:21
Margie O 'Neal or something would say, you know,
15:24
don't walk, run to get your tickets or something.
15:26
Cause you know, it's like, if we don't get there
15:28
soon, we're not going to be able to see it. So
15:30
they made it seem like that was the only show
15:31
in town. So I had to go. In fact, I remembered
15:34
that that same card that I went to one of the
15:37
matches included a wrestler named Black Jack
15:40
Lanza. Oh yeah. He had a black cowboy hat and
15:43
a black vest. He even had more black chaps and
15:46
yeah, he had like black. like custom -made cowboy
15:50
boot wrestling shoes. I mean, they were wrestling
15:53
shoes, but they had kind of the texture that
15:56
you'd see like in the high -top cowboy boots.
15:58
That was part of his whole schtick. But you know
16:00
who his manager was that night? It was hilarious.
16:02
Bobby Heenan? Bobby the Brain Heenan, yep. You
16:10
can't find two more different people than those
16:12
two. But he was perfect. He'd interfere all the
16:15
time, especially as a manager. The manager would
16:17
distract the referee. You mentioned him a little
16:22
while ago, Al. Let's talk about Dr. X, another
16:25
masked wrestler. And I can still remember him.
16:28
Do you remember before we actually saw him wrestle?
16:31
He was actually in the crowd. at the Calhoun
16:34
Beach Club. He was wearing a suit, but he had
16:36
that crazy X mask on. And he was just watching
16:40
the matches for like a couple weeks. And then
16:42
the third week, he interrupted Marty O 'Neill
16:45
or something during an interview part. Marty
16:47
was probably talking about some card coming up.
16:49
And he just came in and said, I want an opportunity
16:52
to wrestle here, you know, in this stuff. And
16:54
Molly Carba said, we can't just put you on or
16:57
whatever. You know, we'll talk to you next week.
17:00
We'll call you, that kind of thing. Well, what
17:02
happened was one of those matches, Vern Gagne
17:05
was wrestling. It was in the studio match. And
17:08
during the match, Dr. X, who was sitting in the
17:11
front row. Of course. In his suit. He jumped
17:14
into the ring, came up the top rope or something,
17:16
attacked Fernganya and was just throwing him
17:19
into ring posts and body slamming him. He even
17:22
put the figure four leg lock on him, I don't
17:24
know. And so then when they found out this guy,
17:29
that was the start of it all. And he actually
17:32
had a really good run. He was the champion a
17:34
few times and he eventually became a good guy.
17:36
I mean, he became a crowd favorite. They hated
17:39
him at first. When I saw him, he'd have this
17:42
strut in the ring. Oh, he was a bad guy. Oh,
17:44
he was perfect. But then he's like the crusher.
17:47
The crusher's a bad guy at first. And then suddenly,
17:49
everybody loved him. And by the way, that figure
17:52
four leg lock really, really hurts. I put that
17:56
on someone one time, and they were literally
18:00
crying. And it's like, this is pretty cool. Somebody
18:05
put it on you, too. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
18:08
Don't even think that you tried. We used to wrestle
18:11
a lot at home. Yeah, I tried to try to hold you
18:14
out. An actual figure for a leg like I think
18:16
it would almost be impossible to break. You almost
18:19
feel like your knee is going to dislocate or
18:20
something. I think the Hulk had it put on him
18:23
once and at his peak and he was able to reach
18:27
the rope. Yeah, and somehow they'd find ways
18:31
and especially in later years, but it's back
18:33
back in the day Somebody put that like you were
18:36
done. Yeah, you'd you'd tap out in a hurry fact
18:39
I think he may even have offered people like
18:41
ten grand anybody that could break the hold I
18:43
can remember one time George scrap iron good
18:45
desk. He just tried it He goes I'll try it and
18:48
he puts a the hold on him. And of course he couldn't
18:50
break and I get and dr. X wouldn't let go He
18:53
just kept putting it on. I mean, he can always
18:54
go back always felt better. Yeah, even more leverage
18:57
or force So George didn't get his 10 grand. And
19:04
he probably could have used it. Yes, yeah, the
19:06
jobbers didn't make a lot of money. It was a
19:09
tough life for those guys. Okay, here's my second
19:12
trivia question. Do you know who Dr. X, what
19:14
Dr. X's real name was? I knew it at one time.
19:17
It might be in your book. I don't remember. But
19:19
his name is Dick Beyer. That's right. He was
19:22
born in 1930, died in 2019 at age 88. but he
19:27
had a good long wrestling career. Let's talk
19:35
just for a minute. We'll give them some equal
19:36
time that let's talk about the jobbers because
19:38
there were a couple three at least that I remember
19:40
really well and I can remember my dad be watching
19:44
wrestling and it's you see it's the scrap iron
19:47
Gaddafi or Kenny J side buster side buster and
19:51
my dad always go is he gonna lose to You know
19:54
because they don't normally would always have
19:56
the winner be introduced second. Yep That was
19:58
almost always a deal just to kind of build up
20:00
and you know, if it's a good guy the crowd would
20:03
cheer for the bad guy that booed and then the
20:05
rest was like they were offended and they'd start
20:07
yelling at the crowd just to get them going.
20:11
But I was trying to think of some other guys.
20:14
This came a little bit later in AWA, but I remember
20:17
a guy named Jake the Milkman Millerman. He always
20:20
lost. But there were some other guys. There was
20:22
a guy named Nacho Barrera. He would always get
20:26
beat. You could almost tell by looking at them
20:29
when they came in the ring. Nothing fancy. They
20:32
didn't have their hair dyed. They weren't wearing
20:34
makeup faces. It was just basically trunks and
20:37
boots. Go in another night and get the crap beat
20:39
out of you. They were actually... I think I've
20:44
heard... wrestlers say that those guys really
20:46
helped them because they could really sell the
20:48
moves and they were good at taking falls so you
20:51
could body slam them and they make it really
20:53
good and it made the the winners look even better
20:56
so they performed a valuable service as jobbers
21:00
you know to have them there so I remember Pat
21:02
Royce he talked about this one of his sports
21:05
talk shows but he said that he remembers this
21:07
is back in his drinking days 40 some years ago
21:09
but Kenny was a bouncer at some bar and nobody
21:13
would give him any trouble. I mean, they knew
21:15
that if it came down to it, he could throw you
21:19
out before you knew what hit you. I met Kenny
21:22
one time back in the 80s. It would have been
21:27
86, 7, 8, somewhere in there. I got invited to
21:32
be a guest on a wrestling show. It was hosted
21:36
by Slick Mick Karch. I was on the new channel
21:39
41. Yeah. And a friend who delivered mail to
21:43
because Mick's day job was with, I think, the
21:45
gas company. And he delivered there and he asked
21:48
me if he wanted to be on. And I got asked to
21:50
be on the thing. And we went on there. And then
21:52
the format was you'd stand there. They'd interview
21:55
you a little bit and then you'd meet a couple
21:57
of wrestlers. You'd introduce a match and you'd.
22:00
move on. And it was a lot of fun. But anyways,
22:03
the wrestlers that we got to meet that day, one
22:06
was Nick Bachwinkle. And Nick, who was at that
22:09
time a golden boy, he pulls up wearing in a big
22:13
gold Cadillac, gets out wearing a beautiful suit.
22:17
He's got a championship ring on he's got all
22:19
sorts of gold chains and stuff and tan. And then
22:23
right after that, Kenny J pulled up driving about
22:26
a 1966 pickup truck and he gets out wearing jeans
22:30
and an old shirt that he probably got at a Walmart.
22:33
Staying in character. And he comes in and Nick
22:36
goes, hey Ken, how you doing? And Kenny goes,
22:38
how you doing, Nick? And they shake hands. They
22:40
go in, you know, just buddies and doing their
22:42
job. Each had their role and each knew their
22:44
role. But Kenny J, even then, I mean, I'm 6 '3",
22:48
190 and he probably was... 50, 60 pounds heavier
22:54
than me. He could have thrown me through a wall
22:56
without breaking a sweat. So yeah, I can see
22:58
where he'd be a good bouncer. Those guys always
23:01
had big necks, too. No matter if they were jobbers
23:04
or winners, they were built for wrestling. I
23:07
could have been a wrestler. I'd have got killed.
23:10
But they were built for that type of activity,
23:14
I guess. They were good at what they did. I remember
23:17
a funny line, Roger Kent. It was a match he was
23:21
announcing and Gadaski was wrestling and he said,
23:26
he commented on Gadaski, he had a bald spot on
23:29
top of his head. You know what happens to the
23:31
best of us, right? All of us. All of us, I guess.
23:38
And Roger Kent said he didn't lose that hair
23:41
from going bald. He lost that hair from getting
23:43
ripped off his head. I didn't say it like it's
23:50
the truth, you know? Roger Kent. And they used
23:54
to talk about all the wrestlers with their cauliflower
23:56
ears from the half Nelsons and stuff. And I think
23:58
that was some, there was something to that. Yeah.
24:01
Well, if you look at a different sport and different
24:03
time, but you look at MMA guys, seems like everyone,
24:06
those guys had the cauliflower ears just from
24:09
their heads getting squished and, you know, headlocks
24:12
and that kind of stuff. So. Let's um, let's talk
24:20
about some of the the bigger names you mentioned
24:22
red bastine and red I'm sorry red bastine. Who's
24:26
the other guy? Well, the guy he partnered with
24:27
put that was Billy Red Lion Billy Red Lions.
24:29
Okay, that's right. That's right. They both had
24:31
red hair. Yep So they kind of did okay, but I'm
24:33
just thinking that you know, we mentioned dr.
24:35
X by Jack Lanza vergonia, obviously the crusher
24:38
Bokwinkle mad dog the Sean mad dog the Sean Remember
24:44
Billy Robinson? Oh yeah, the gentleman. Yes,
24:48
the British guy, right? Yep, yep. And then Larry
24:51
Henning. Pretty Boy Henning. He had some Harley
24:55
races. Tag team partner. You're right, and later
24:57
Kurt was the wrestler. You're right, you're right.
24:59
But I remember Oahu McDaniel. Was he actually
25:02
Indigenous? I believe he was. He wore that headdress
25:05
and I thought, could he do that today? I mean,
25:07
now he's in his 80s if he's alive, but I thought
25:09
that probably wouldn't fly today, so. But I remember
25:12
Ray the Crippler Stevens, he and Bachwinkle tagged
25:15
him a lot. Yeah, they won the championship in
25:19
the early 60s. They were good. Ray was nasty.
25:23
Yeah, yeah. Tough, tough wrestler. I wouldn't,
25:25
like I said, I'd never get in a ring anyway.
25:32
You know, let's talk about Vern a little bit,
25:34
because I just find it interesting. My dad used
25:36
to always get the chuckle out of it. You know,
25:37
not only was he an accomplished wrestler, he
25:39
was a good wrestler by anyone's estimation. You
25:42
know, 10 -time, AWA champion, then he was a tag
25:46
team champion several times, you know, with the
25:50
Crusher, I think Mad Dog, but Sean. Do you remember
25:53
a guy named Moose Evans? He was a big guy. Yeah,
25:59
he's big, but he wasn't around very long. No,
26:01
he didn't stay in the AW long, but for a short
26:03
time he and Vern were tag team champs. But Vern,
26:07
like I said, he was an accomplished wrestler.
26:10
Um, but it was, it's funny because in effect
26:13
he was basically everyone's boss. Yeah. Cause
26:15
he ran the, he owned it. So anybody that would
26:18
come on TV and talk about what a bum vermin gun
26:20
is and hates him and all this stuff, vermin is
26:22
also paying or signing their paycheck, his paycheck.
26:25
So, you know, I just found it interesting. It
26:27
was probably one of the few jobs where you could
26:28
actually get a chance to beat up your boss. That's
26:31
true. But if you made him too mad, you might
26:38
find yourself wrestling up in North Dakota in
26:40
the gym somewhere. Right, right. Yep, yeah, he
26:43
controlled their careers. I mean, it must have
26:46
been interesting just at the politics, the skills,
26:49
but I mean, you really had to be... not only
26:51
a good wrestler, but you had to kind of sell
26:53
your character, whether you're a good guy or
26:55
bad guy, you know, you had to be a showman. Yeah,
26:58
exactly. Showmanship was everything. Being able
27:00
to conduct interviews that people would remember.
27:03
It was a skill. It was like acting, you know,
27:06
because they had to do so many different things.
27:08
In addition, just wrestling. So I was there on
27:11
the road a lot. Traveling a lot. Yeah. Yeah.
27:14
Yeah. And back in those days, I mean, they literally
27:17
would. play in a lot of small towns in Minnesota
27:19
and Dakotas and Wisconsin. So they were, they
27:22
were driving a lot, you know, probably during
27:25
the night, you know, they wrestle in the evening
27:27
and they have to drive through the night to get
27:29
home and, you know. dangerous roads. Several
27:33
wrestlers died in car accidents by falling asleep.
27:36
I remember Adrian Adonis. Yes. And there was
27:40
one guy, I forget, but in the 60s, he was supposed
27:43
to be wrestling in a championship match and was
27:47
on his way to Minneapolis to do that and the
27:49
night before he fell asleep at the wheel and
27:51
died. So, Vern had to step in. It was going to
27:54
be a title match and Vern stipulated he would
27:56
do it, but only if his title wasn't on the line.
28:00
And so it was Nick Bachwinkle against Verne.
28:02
That's where Nick beat Verne for the first time
28:04
and he didn't get to say, well, I beat the champion,
28:07
yes, but I didn't become the champion in that
28:09
match. Verne would have been fighting, it's like
28:12
Romeo something was his name. I don't remember
28:15
the full name, but the guy died in a crash like
28:17
that just because traveling from one match to
28:19
another. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, some of those
28:22
guys, they did like to drink. You know, after
28:24
they might've had a couple after the match and
28:27
they, Oh, I can drive home. You know, DUIs weren't
28:30
enforced like they were today either. So a lot
28:32
of, a lot of, uh, yeah, crazy, crazy lifestyle.
28:36
So. Let's talk for a minute about a guy. He wasn't
28:43
a wrestler, but he was definitely a big part
28:45
of the WAA and that's Wally Carbo the promoter
28:48
I mean, I think he really was who he was. I mean,
28:51
I think he you know, he was an excitable guy
28:53
He was from Northeast Minneapolis, but he gets
28:55
so worked up You know the way he would yell at
28:57
wrestlers telling him they were fined or suspended
29:00
or what I love best about not only the fines
29:03
of suspensions But some out of the blue he'd
29:04
say next Card, you're gonna be wrestling. You're
29:07
gonna be forced to rest. Yeah, like Andre the
29:09
Giant or something. Just be outraged about King
29:13
Kong Fundy. Tell him to shut up. You know, it
29:16
just it was just hilarious when he come on. You
29:18
know, catchphrase, fines and suspension. Yes,
29:21
no one could say it was such outraged zeal. Yeah,
29:29
sometimes even the the dollars that they throw
29:31
around like I can remember they would have like
29:34
Battle Royals and the winner would get like $60
29:36
,000 which is considered a good payday, but I
29:40
can remember once Royce on the radio said I want
29:42
to see the certified check, because he wasn't
29:45
sure he believed that they really got that money.
29:47
It was just all in the name of promoting the
29:50
wrestling, I guess. Oh, I've got another good
29:53
trivia question for you. When Wally passed away,
29:55
it was in the 90s sometimes. He was 77. He had
29:58
a heart attack and died. But you know who gave
30:01
the eulogy at his funeral mass? He died near
30:04
someplace. Big Bachwinkle. Oh really? Yeah. And
30:08
I bet he did a really good one too. Oh, sure.
30:10
Well, again, he was smooth. He was a great guy.
30:13
From everything I've read about Bachwinkle, not
30:15
only was he a great wrestler, but a really good
30:18
guy. He was a heel, but that was his schtick.
30:22
That was his deal. He was a tag team heel. Yeah,
30:25
but he was a great guy. So he did the eulogy
30:29
for Martin. Like you said, Al, I'm sure it was
30:31
a great one. Wayne, I'm going to ask you if you
30:38
remember this because I know you were with me.
30:40
This had been about 1966 when we were like 13.
30:44
Okay. Now you would have been eight or nine.
30:46
They had a card up at the heists up at the high
30:47
school. Yep. Did you go to that, Al? Well, I
30:51
don't know if you remember that. I didn't go
30:52
to that one, but also when I was in junior high,
30:54
they had one up at the gym and it was pretty
30:57
well sold out. The highlight match was Kobayashi
31:00
against Paul Diamond. Oh, okay. And I remember
31:04
that going. What year would that have been? Yeah,
31:05
it would have been, I was in probably like. Mid
31:08
60s. Eighth grade. So like right around 70, 70,
31:13
71. Somewhere in the high school? Yeah. Okay,
31:16
yeah. Because we went to one in 66 or so I want
31:19
to say. I remember first time I heard about it,
31:22
there was this blue poster at the Danielson Drugstore
31:25
on 40th and Central. And it had a picture of
31:28
some guys and they talked about this card and
31:30
I can remember saying to my mom and dad. Oh,
31:32
I got to go and I'm sure we talked about it and
31:34
it was great because it was well attended. There
31:36
were a lot of people there. They opened the gym,
31:39
the wall that divided the gyms and the ring was
31:42
probably toward the center and then they pulled
31:45
the bleachers out on our side and we could watch
31:47
it and so there must have been, you know, at
31:49
least, well, I don't want to give a crowd size
31:51
because I don't know, but it was well attended
31:52
and there were some great matches there, but
31:55
the main event was the crusher against Handsome
32:00
Harley Race. And this guy's really put on a great
32:03
show. I bet the match lasted probably 20, 25
32:07
minutes at least. I don't recall who won though.
32:10
Well, the crusher. But it was great because it
32:13
was just back and forth. I mean, they'd get momentum.
32:15
But there was one scene that the one that cracked
32:17
me up was remember how when they'd open that
32:19
gym wall, that wall was kind of like an accordion.
32:22
And when you closed it, it would be compacted
32:25
against the wall. There was a scene where the
32:27
crusher had Harley racing a headlock. He ran
32:30
hardly into that where the dividing wall was
32:34
so it wasn't like cement it wasn't concrete but
32:37
smacked him into it, you know hardly races down
32:39
on the ground and and somehow the crusher picked
32:41
him up and they because they didn't want to get
32:43
counted out they got back in the ring and They
32:46
kept seesawing back and forth and finally at
32:48
the end the crusher Won the match of the pinfall,
32:50
but it was great because those guys really put
32:53
out They were just going at it like crazies and
32:56
the fans loved it. It just got I think they were
32:58
probably 500 to a thousand yeah, yeah, yeah,
33:01
yeah because you know as I recall they only had
33:04
the bleachers pulled out on one side and But
33:07
they had the bleachers and then those stands
33:09
above the bleachers in high school so you know
33:11
you got a pretty good size, but Yeah, they're
33:15
trying to think of other wrestlers. I can remember
33:16
that night. I remember tiny Mills was wrestling
33:18
remember him He's a big guy. He had long hair
33:20
long hair at the black tights. Yes. He wrestled
33:23
some guy called the Alaskan there were a couple
33:26
of big guys and then There were some other guys,
33:30
but, you know, some of them that were heels were
33:32
yelling with the crowd. I mean, guys would stand
33:34
up and yell and he'd be yelling back. And it
33:36
was, it was, it was a good show. That's the only
33:38
one I saw at the high school. I didn't see the
33:39
one you were talking about, but that was, that
33:41
was a fun memory. There were like seven or eight
33:44
matches. I think they had one match where there
33:46
were two women. Yeah. Back then, that was an
33:50
attitude. Yeah, there weren't as many women wrestling
33:52
back then. No, there wasn't, but it was pretty
33:53
cool. And then, like I said, the headline match
33:57
was Kobayashi, who had a thing called the...
34:01
crab or inverted crab or something. And Paul
34:04
Diamond, he was kind of this young up and coming
34:06
guy from Florida. He had the good looks and everything.
34:10
And he did a Boston crab to win round two. Kobayashi
34:15
used a couple of dirty moves and got him in the
34:17
crab and he won with his version of it. So was
34:20
it a two out of three thing? It was a two out
34:22
of three thing. I don't remember seeing the two
34:24
out of three live. Yeah, that was an AW thing
34:27
too. I don't remember the WWF ever doing like
34:30
two out of three. Three Falls, but Vern would
34:32
do that once in a while. Maybe they didn't have
34:34
enough interviews for the TV tapings, so let's
34:36
just stretch this out for another 15 minutes.
34:39
Somebody called in sick, so I had to stretch
34:42
another match. That could be, that could be,
34:44
so. Okay, so we've been fun. It's been fun reminiscing
34:53
about the AWA, but you know, like that song by
34:56
George Harrison, All Things with Pass. And eventually
34:59
the AWA did go away. And I guess we could probably
35:04
think of a lot of reasons for doing it, but I
35:06
think if there was one thing that probably hurt
35:08
them more than helped them was, well, one was
35:11
cable TV. And because of cable TV, the World
35:15
Wrestling Federation, which had some pretty deep
35:18
pockets, spent a lot of money invading other
35:21
territories and coaxing wrestlers away from that.
35:25
And so, you know, Vern's organization really
35:28
suffered from that. And he lost a lot of wrestlers.
35:31
The biggest one that he lost is Hulk Hogan. Huge,
35:34
huge. And I don't know if he could have prevented
35:36
that the way things worked out. But you know,
35:39
he was bigger than Minneapolis. Yeah, yeah. And
35:42
wrestling became like a national sport. When
35:43
you got cable TV, you can watch it anywhere.
35:45
And that just really hurt the regional territories.
35:48
It just went away. But it was too bad because
35:51
I think they had a really good Good product.
35:55
It was very fun. It was fun. It was entertaining.
35:58
And it was a local based thing that I think people
36:01
felt a connection to that. It's kind of hard
36:03
to get excited about WWF with it. You always
36:06
thought that was an East Coast thing. It was
36:08
a big global conglomerate that was taking over
36:11
all these little ones like the Eastern Wrestling
36:13
Alliance, the Texas Wrestling Alliance, all those.
36:16
And this big bad guy, kind of like your Walmart,
36:18
just moving in and taking over the small guys.
36:21
Yep. I remember I saw promotion. I saw a card
36:25
at the Metrodome, about 85. It was Verne's answer
36:29
to WrestleMania. It was called Wrestle Rock.
36:32
And in the match, he ended up wrestling the Sheik.
36:37
But I remember somebody saying who he really
36:39
would have wanted to wrestle that match was Vince
36:42
McMahon, because he basically stole his business
36:45
and ruined his business, you know, bought him
36:47
out. So it was too bad. It was fun while it lasted.
36:53
Well enough that, um, you know, Wayne, you got
36:55
a good book about the golden age of wrestling
36:57
and that, uh, and we grew up watching it. So
36:59
it's a lot of, a lot of fun memories for guys,
37:02
I guess. I did read somewhere and maybe it's
37:04
in your book too. At one point, at least in the
37:06
twin cities that, um, they said all -star wrestling
37:10
was the second highest rated show in the twin
37:12
cities. Only behind 60 minutes. They've got some
37:17
numbers here at its peak. It earned a 25 rating
37:20
and a 64 share. I don't know what those numbers
37:24
mean, but it tells me it must have been really
37:26
popular. That sounds impressive. Another way
37:28
of measuring it is in the book where the number
37:32
of TVs tuned in to WTCN. Yeah. About an hour
37:38
before a match, there would be 60 to 70 ,000
37:42
houses probably watching news or whatever. 15
37:46
minutes before the matches were supposed to start,
37:49
it was up to 80 ,000. And when it started, over
37:52
90 ,000 people were tuned in. Oh man, that's
37:55
a big increase. Yeah, it really was. Yeah, it
37:57
was because of the wrestling. My dad liked watching
38:01
it, my grandfather loved watching it, and so
38:04
did we. I was gonna bring up something, I don't
38:11
know if you guys are aware of it. I was flipping
38:14
channels during football season, college football
38:16
season last summer. And on this channel, I think
38:20
they used to call it 45, but it's not really
38:21
45. It's a KSTP affiliate, I think it's called
38:24
KSTC. They have this half hour show on Saturday
38:27
afternoons at noon. It's the American Wrestling
38:30
Federation. And it's, it's a real small thing,
38:34
but it reminds me a lot of all star wrestling.
38:36
Cause they, they taped the matches like in high
38:37
school gyms and they've got these guys I've never
38:40
heard of, but they've, they've gone to wrestling
38:42
school and they're doing it. And the announcers
38:44
are way over the top, you know, and usually the,
38:47
usually the commentators is siding with the bad
38:49
guy and the wrestling is trying to, you know,
38:52
be a good guy and that kind of stuff. But the
38:54
taping I saw the last time it was actually taped
38:57
at Mersion hall, the field house. Really? In
39:01
Columbia Heights? Yeah, they put a ring, you
39:03
know, we used to go there for dances. We had
39:05
our high school reunions there. Yeah, reunions,
39:08
yeah. And they've got a ring kind of right in
39:09
the middle, and then you've got seats around
39:11
it. But it was so budget -conscious. They had
39:16
a camera. It looked like it might have been on
39:18
the announcer's table, and it must have been
39:20
like a tripod. It just showed the whole ring.
39:23
There were no other cameras, no close -up shots
39:26
of the rest of the city. You just saw the matches.
39:29
And that was the whole, it was for a half hour,
39:31
just these two guys. But they kept getting interrupted
39:34
by farm equipments, tattoo parlors, bars and
39:39
restaurants, all to the north of here, like up
39:41
in Zimmerman and Monticello, Elk River. But I
39:45
found it interesting. They were taping these
39:47
matches in the heights at Mergent Hall. Is it
39:50
still on? It's on every Saturday at noon. Okay.
39:53
And there's nothing controversy about it, but
39:55
for some reason at the start of the show, they
39:57
run a disclaimer. You know, like the views expressed
40:01
in this show are not necessarily those of KSTC.
40:04
I'm like, where's the controversy? It's just,
40:07
it's, you know, it's wrestling, but I got a kick
40:10
out of the show, but it's for half hour. And
40:12
if you ever want to feel nostalgic, it's almost
40:14
like watching an old All -Star Wrestling. Okay.
40:17
Guys I've never heard of, you know, but it's,
40:19
it's good entertainment. So. One last thing if
40:27
you could I just want if you guys maybe tell
40:29
me who you're from back to this golden age We
40:32
were talking about in the 60s and 70s Who was
40:34
probably your favorite wrestler who you think
40:36
was the best wrestler at the time? It'd be either
40:39
a good guy or heel doesn't matter who you thought
40:41
were the The best well a lot of them went both
40:44
ways Yeah, you know there were bad guys. Well
40:47
crusher. He was sure really and dick the bruiser.
40:50
Yeah. Yeah, yeah but I like them as a tag team.
40:56
He'd put the stomach claw on. Yeah, didn't he
40:59
actually look for the camera? It'd be like he
41:01
put the claw on it and then he'd have those eyes
41:04
kind of bug -eyed. He'd look forever at the cameras
41:06
and then the cameras, you'd see him just, you
41:07
know, looking at the camera just like he was
41:10
possessed. So the crusher, yeah, he's definitely...
41:15
Definitely a good one. Who comes to mind? For
41:18
me, the single wrestler that I really liked,
41:21
definitely the bad guy was Nick Bockwinkle. I
41:24
always liked Nick because just when he got punched
41:27
or something, he could act it up and when he
41:29
could sell it, he could really sell that. And
41:32
when he got slammed into the turnbuckle, you
41:34
just knew he was just dying the way he carried
41:37
on. But somehow he would recover and they could
41:40
all recover. They always recovered. Yeah. And
41:42
then as far as tag team. I mean, the road warriors
41:46
I liked, but they were eighties, you know, we
41:48
don't want to have them. But going back to the
41:49
ones that I really liked, the Kamelkoff brothers.
41:53
Yeah. Yeah. They had the whole dirty communist
41:58
thing going. And it was a lot of fun just watching
42:01
them act and strut around and degrade the American
42:04
capitalist thing. And then they went home to
42:06
their houses in Milwaukee. Yeah, exactly exactly.
42:12
I I think I think vernganya and Nick Bakka were
42:15
probably the two best technical wrestlers I mean
42:18
they were so good. I mean they really knew how
42:20
to wrestle and then the crusher just his His
42:25
persona. He was just so popular. Oh my gosh.
42:28
And one other that you mentioned earlier that
42:29
I really liked and who was extremely good technically
42:31
is Billy Robinson. Yeah. He had all sorts of
42:34
moves and everything but once in a while his
42:37
famed British calm would get ruffled and he would
42:40
go dirty and he could he could get punch and
42:42
get nasty but most of the time he tried to come
42:44
across as a proper British gentleman but he had
42:48
good moves too. I probably we have I know we
42:51
mentioned him we didn't talk too much another
42:52
guy I think it was crowd favorite too is Baron
42:55
von Raschke. Yep. With his claw. From Germany.
42:59
Everybody's favorite biology teacher. From, was
43:02
it Bloomington? Bloomington, I think, yeah. And
43:03
then he'd drive the monorail at the Minnesota
43:05
Zoo for a while when he was retired. He was from
43:08
Nebraska. His name is Kenny Raschke. I think
43:10
he wrestled for Nebraska. And then he got into
43:13
pro wrestling and used up that German thing,
43:15
you know. He'd wear a monocle sometimes. Yeah,
43:17
a goose stamp. What was it? That's all the people
43:21
need to know. I don't think people need to know
43:24
exactly. And then I can remember Roger Kent said
43:26
that his clavo is so powerful that he's broken
43:28
coconuts with it. Sure you have. He did a great
43:36
commercial too, I think it was for Bernatel's
43:38
pizza or something, frozen pizza. And he was
43:40
in the grocery store in the frozen pizza aisle.
43:43
And somebody asked the guy if you wanted to try
43:45
Bernatel's and the guy said, no, I don't want
43:48
it. And he's wearing his clothes. All of a sudden
43:51
he puts on the clothes and goes, you can go try
43:52
it and you'll like it. And this guy's petrified
43:55
and he buys a pizza. Great stuff. Hopefully it
44:01
was a good payday. Best 50 bucks he ever earned.
44:05
Yeah, the Baron. Good guy, good guy. Well, this
44:13
has been fun guys I mean we could go on and on
44:15
if it'll if we scratch the surface and maybe
44:17
we can do another future podcast maybe focus
44:18
on one of these guys from the old days, but I
44:22
Appreciate you're getting together. It was fun
44:24
to get together and talk about some of these
44:25
guys. I think we made a great three -man tag
44:28
team Thanks for coming in guys And again, to
44:37
our listeners, thanks for hanging out with me,
44:39
Bob Edholm, and my guests, brothers Wayne and
44:41
Al Damro. We hope you join us for the next episode
44:43
of Hanging Out with Bob wherever you listen to
44:46
your podcasts. And until then, bye.