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Emails: How to Find a Therapist · System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Over:
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to longtime listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: We have emails to read. Barbara says, I have been sitting back and listening to how you all are doing. It feels like progress from a listener standpoint anyway. One thing I have learned is as we try to identify who we want around us and if they are safe enough to be part of our external tribe, that even within the carefully chosen tribe, trust gets challenged. Sometimes those who add some fresh wounds to old ones doesn't necessarily mean it was done with ill intent.
• 1:40
  It hurts. Relationships can hurt, but it doesn't make them unsafe. It makes them human. I hope in building your tribe, you all are able to find those that don't just show up, but remain through those trials enough to grow on. I bet it won't be perfect.
• 1:58
  It will be messy, but worth every now time moment shared. I continue to pray for you, your family, and those friends who are there for you actively and in proximity. That is gold when someone's actions match their words that windows their soul. I think what you shared is really important. And actually part of what was hard last year was words were not matching behaviors or behaviors were not matching words.
• 2:29
  And that incongruence is such a relational trauma trigger that it was really, really difficult. And it took us a long time to figure out what was going on, what the trigger was, and how we wanted to respond to it. The other thing that we really went through last year had more to do with a misunderstanding about expectations and roles and the dynamic. Like, it was like a bad dating experience. I mean, it wasn't about dating at all, but where we thought one thing was happening.
• 3:04
  And so we were trying really hard to interact as if that were happening, but it turned out that was not happening at all. And so I think part of it was that we just felt foolish because we would not have behaved in such ways or said such things or done such things if we had understood more accurately what was going on. And so I think we just felt foolish and a little bit betrayed. And I guess part of what we learned is that just because people are good does not necessarily make them good for us or us available and in a place where it fits in with where they are in their lives. That's just relationships, and people are different.
• 3:51
  And I think learning that and navigating that is just fine and can even be without any drama at all, no negativity. It just is. Like, you can't force those things. You can't change those things. It just is.
• 4:07
  And so learning to accept that and grieving what we needed to grieve and then moving on and moving forward and figuring out what that looks like for us in ways that are healthy for us is really a huge piece of what we got out of last year because we aren't waiting anymore and we aren't trying anymore to be anything other than who we are. And I think that's pretty huge. Lucy says, hey, Emma, and all your lovelies. I have listened to your podcast on and off for a while now, having only recently come back to it as I find it a little difficult to listen to sometimes. That is totally true and absolutely okay.
• 4:54
  It is really difficult sometimes, and it's hard to do. It's hard to release. It's hard to share the things that we do, and I can't imagine trying to listen to them. There is no offense in that at all. I am glad you are taking care of you.
• 5:11
  They say, I have just listened to your episode, turn it off, which was a real difficult listen, and I am glad that you started the episode by saying you were okay after. I am struggling and have struggled with something for a long time. I have had no success with doctors and have no diagnosis, but can relate to DID in many ways. Although my system, we are all the same, we have the same names or variations of it, and we are all of the same gender, although we are different ages and different personalities, and an extremely good mask, the me who looks totally normal and altogether to everyone I know. I just wanted to say I have never in my life heard anything that mirrors moments I have where I am just so confused and angry with how I am feeling.
• 6:00
  It was like I was listening to a recording of myself when I lose it and just talk at myself. It has made me realize that maybe I really do have something like DID. I wish I were brave enough to talk to someone about it. Thank you for your podcast. It triggers and dissociates me a lot, so sometimes I feel that can only be a good thing in small doses.
• 6:22
  Absolutely. Good taking care of yourself. The podcast is just there. As long as we're able to keep it online and pay for the hosting of all the giant sound files, it will just stay there. And so take your time.
• 6:39
  Take care of yourself. That's always important. I'm so glad you shared your story with us and that you are pacing things well in a healthy way with good boundaries to take care of yourself even as you do listen. Good job, guys. Maria says, Hello, I love your podcast.
• 6:58
  My therapist said you have a community that I may join. I do not see that option on the website. I am looking for support throughout this journey of DID. Oh, so we talk about the community online, we just mean generally the dissociative identity disorder. Sometimes that includes OSDD, that's just not our experience, so I'm not as good about including that or referencing that, and I'm sorry for that.
• 7:27
  But I just mean the online support groups and resources. We did try to have a Facebook page and tried to just go that route and see if we could have a little bit of a safe place for people to share with each other some, but we don't have the time and energy during the pandemic while we are homeschooling sick special needs kids at home, because of the pandemic, there's just, we have to prioritize what's most important, and obviously they come first. And so we don't have the space left to be able to safely moderate that kind of group. And so we don't have that available at all ourselves, but there are lots of options online. What we have found about the online groups is that they were really helpful in the beginning.
• 8:21
  Just whatever social media you use or Facebook groups, different hosting sites, what we found is that they were very helpful in the beginning as far as learning the language of dissociative identity disorder and learning how systems work and sort of coming to an acceptance of those things, that was super helpful in the beginning. But once we sort of got to that place, we kind of had to back away from the groups, and we probably haven't been active in the groups for a year or two other than contact with friends we made through the groups. So just take care of yourself. You have to go in with your eyes open and being aware of good boundaries and your own safety and sort of the difference between your personal experience and the culture of online life that can develop, those are actually different things. And so you have to be sure that you're discerning that.
• 9:30
  But if if you can do those things, then the groups can be really helpful for a season, and there are good people trying to help each other in that way. So I would just be wary, be cautious, but there's a lot of good to it. So just look generally on whatever social media you use. Look for the groups or the hashtags for DID or dissociative identity disorder. There's not anything necessarily specific other than just what you can find out there.
• 10:02
  Thanks for writing, Maria. Lisa says, I wanted to get you something for your upcoming birthday and felt this subscription would be fun. You will get a small package in the mail at the post office box containing art supplies and a little snack once a month for twelve months. Oh my goodness, Lisa. That is so kind.
• 10:28
  I so appreciate you. That is super sweet. What a lovely way to try to celebrate the birthday. Our friend also sent us some salsa and some new pens for the notebook, and that was super kind of her. Thank you, guys.
• 10:47
  You just again, it's such a silly thing, but your support and your sweetness, that practicing of connection, even when we're terrible at it. I mean, we are a work in progress and learning to get better. It's it's it's really fabulous, and I I can't tell you how much we appreciate you. Thank you, Lisa. That's so very kind.
• 11:11
  Michelle says, Are you going to the Healing Together virtual conference next weekend? I would love to connect with you. I had to change counselors and it was an awful experience I'm still processing. Trusting a therapist is so hard, and the people in my life don't understand the grief of feeling betrayed and abandoned by a counselor. It seems like you would get it, and it would be nice to talk to someone who gets it.
• 11:37
  Anyway, thank you for sharing your podcast. Ugh. I don't even have words for this. My heart is still so raw. This just steps all over my toes, but in good ways with connection, I guess, of someone who understands attunement, attunement maybe, with someone who understands what that's like.
• 11:58
  It's really, really hard when something goes wrong with therapy. And when you can't figure out how to fix it, it is an awful, awful reenactment or re traumatization or I can't even. I can't even talk about it. It's hard. Yeah.
• 12:16
  I hear you. It's hard. Also, yes, we were at Healing Together conference. I don't know when this email episode is going to air, but it will either be airing right before or right after we share about our experience at Healing Together. So hopefully you can hear that.
• 12:32
  Thanks for writing, Michelle. Laurie says, I read a book and thought you might like it if you haven't read it. It's called A A Story of Harm and Healing and Psychotherapy by Annie G. Rogers. She's a therapist like you and also shares about her own work.
• 12:50
  I liked it a lot. Maybe she could come on the podcast. I enjoyed listening along. Thank you for sharing. You are often in my thoughts and prayers.
• 12:58
  That's very kind of you, Laurie. Thanks for the referral for a book. That sounds terrifying because, again, it hits so close to home. And I'd ugh, it hurts. Oh, the pain of it.
• 13:13
  Like, there are days where I think we're doing really well, and we get up and we do our little workout and we do our little scripture study and prayer time and have our quiet morning before the children wake up. We get as much work done as we can before they're up, And then we have breakfast with them, and we do our family scripture study. This is an insight into our little boring days in quarantine, you guys. And then getting them started at school so that we go back to work while the husband helps him with school a little bit. And I just think if I can keep going through the motions, then everything will be okay.
• 13:53
  And other days, it all just spins in my head. And I think, if I hadn't have done this or if I would have done this like that whole bargaining stage of grief, right, if we would have only done this or I should have done that or I shouldn't have done this. Like, there's no way to fix what happened, and we can't go backwards. There's no way to reclaim what was good that almost happened. It's like everything just slipped through our fingers.
• 14:23
  Like, you know what it's like? This is ridiculous. But the husband, he watches that glassblowing show because he likes weird artsy things. But one year for his birthday, we gave him classes for glassblowing. Okay?
• 14:41
  So he's gotten to do that in real life, and we have, like, trinkets all over the house that he's made. And he would do it more if we did not have children and could just throw money into crafty things. So he's not gotten to do that since we had children, but he used to do it. And there's some kind of show now that is like the baking show, except it's about glassblowing. I'm sorry, I don't even know the name of it, but the husband loves this show.
• 15:10
  It makes me so nervous because when they almost get their project right and it's almost finished and it's a time limit, they have to get done on time, and then they drop it and the glass just shatters everywhere. Like, I am hiding under the covers like it were a monster movie. Like, it just, it crushes my heart. And I feel like that's what happened to therapy. I feel like in therapy, we were making such good progress and things were going so amazing and I was in such a good place and our system was open and our system was vulnerable and then it just shattered.
• 15:48
  And I'm just now getting to a place where I'm even able to talk about it. And now we've lost this therapist, and I just, I can't. I wanna start crying, and I have to read emails. So I just I I can't. I'm done.
• 16:06
  I'm so done. I'm over it. I don't know what we're gonna do. Like, we're safe. I don't want people to panic.
• 16:14
  It's just it's a hard thing, and that's part of life. Right? Like, hard things happen, and this is just a hard thing. One more hard thing, you guys. And so we do what we do, and we will figure our way out through it because that's what we do.
• 16:37
  Graham says, emotions, big feelings. Okay. Focus. Get a drink of water, took a break. I'm back.
• 16:49
  Here we go. Graham says, hi, system speak. Thank you for your hard work and humanity, also for your permission for the use picture of your journal from the DID Awareness Day episode that I have used during my training of professionals who conduct adventure therapy for our complex kids. I played today for the first time, less than three minutes of you describing what it is like internally when everyone is trying to cope with the outside world. The participants were moved beyond words to receive this tiny glimpse of lives lived after trauma.
• 17:28
  Today, another 12 professionals have learned from you and will spread love, acceptance, and dignity amongst our young people. Our best wishes to you all and your family. Oh, that's so very kind. I'm glad that's going well. He says, PS, please return to Australia.
• 17:47
  Oh my goodness. I would go with nothing but a backpack right now if I could get away with it. We don't have much COVID, and you would be safe and welcome. But not Sydney is too big a city. Go north to the sunshine State.
• 18:03
  Oh, I love it. PS, John Mark, we could use some ideas when our training dog if you have the time. That's funny. I love that link. Thank you so much.
• 18:15
  That's super sweet. And we absolutely returning to Australia maybe for a conference or a visit or something will be one of our goals post pandemic, it would be lovely. It really would be lovely. And at the same time, there was a long pause there, but I was just thinking about the reality of I also literally don't know how to leave my front yard anymore. Like, I tried a couple times and those were emotional experiences that have not gone well.
• 18:48
  And so I need to try by myself. I sometimes can take the children to the park, so we're making progress. But I don't know, guys, the pandemic. I can't even. Thank you, Graham, for sharing and for doing what you do, especially for kids.
• 19:06
  That's amazing. The healing that you're bringing and the quality of life that those kids will have in their future, it's an example of how you have healed them from trauma that no one will ever even know because it didn't happen. It gets exponential, the work that you're doing. Thank you so much. Kate says, Sasha, it was great to hear your voice again.
• 19:33
  I hope you and Doctor. E and all the others are more up to date on 2021. Well, we're better at faking it. No. We're I'm all over it.
• 19:45
  Everything's good. Everything's good. Right? Perfect. Life is great.
• 19:48
  I'm just kidding. More stuff is going on. Of course, it is. But we are working through things, and we are trying. Thank you so much for checking on us.
• 20:00
  It was just good practice at getting oriented. It was just good practice. Leon says, hello, system speak. I just finished listening to your most recent email episode prior to sending this. A listener asked about transcripts, and y'all put out a request for people who have some time and energy to dedicate to writing them.
• 20:24
  I have never done a transcript before, but I'm willing to look into the process and to make sure I do it correctly. This podcast has helped us in our journey more than I have words to say, and I would be honored to make it more accessible for others to help them too. We have been listening since 02/2019. Oh my goodness. Thank you so much.
• 20:45
  Someday we hope to be in one of those future email episodes. Oh, well, buddy, you're here now. Good job. Thank you for writing in. When we find the words and the courage, you did it.
• 20:58
  You did it. Like, this counts, guys. There are so many things we have wanted to say, but sharing with the world is intimidating. Still, we want to make an effort to connect and be a part of something important to us. Our first instinct is always to hide.
• 21:13
  I hear you. I feel that. Absolutely. I get it. I get it.
• 21:18
  Even if you decide not to accept the offer, it feels like a start you have given us. Thank you all for all that you do and take care of yourselves as best you can. Our world is truly a better place with you in it. That is so kind. I will email you and we can talk about transcripts.
• 21:36
  Thank you so much. Catherine says, Hello. I just recently started listening to your podcast at the recommendation of my therapist as I was diagnosed with DID about four months ago. In your most recent podcast, I heard that you were looking for people for transcribing. I am disabled, which leads me to having days that I can't get out of bed that I could listen and type.
• 22:02
  And so I would I would love to have a way to do something that would support the podcast. Thank you so much. You guys are so stepping up. I can't even tell you how grateful I am. I will message you as well.
• 22:14
  Thank you. Tamara says, I want to recommend to you to interview another podcaster called Laura Mae Northrop. She makes the podcast Inside Eyes about healing from childhood sexual abuse using psychedelics. Oh, I guess that's in response to the other emails. So there you go.
• 22:35
  The people who were asking about psychedelic therapy, since I know nothing about this and probably am not allowed to explore it at this time in my life. I'm not hating, I'm just saying I'm not in a place. Let's just not introduce any more variables right now. But for those who are asking it about it, there is a great resource that they just said. I have not previewed this or know anything about it, but you're welcome to look that up.
• 23:05
  By the way, I love your podcast and signed up for monthly donations. I really appreciate what you're doing. That's so kind, Tamara. We thank you for your support, truly. Erica says, I discovered your podcast and you mentioned you are from Oklahoma and Kansas.
• 23:21
  Oh, and then they say where they are. I am desperately seeking help from a psychologist for DID treatment. Can you please send me a list of referrals? Thank you so much and have a great weekend. You know what?
• 23:32
  I cannot because, my therapist died. Oh, it's not funny. It's terrible. I'm trying not to cry. Okay, so here's the thing.
• 23:45
  I don't have a list of referrals because I've tried really hard to find someone and it's hard. I'm sure they are out there. What I would tell everybody else is that there are a few options to start a search. It doesn't mean that's where you're gonna find your answer, but someone who knows somebody who knows somebody might be able to help you find someone. The number one place to start with is the ISSTD website.
• 24:11
  You can search for therapists there. Number two, you could go to something like Psychology Today and search in what your parameters are as far as insurance and trauma or whatever and see who comes up in your area. Now, here's the thing you need to know about Psychology Today. Like, guys, they don't actually vet anybody. How Psychology Today became the source of let's search for therapists there and we will get safe people, I don't know how that happened other than Psychology Today, like getting a lot of money from all of us having to pay every month to have our names there because it's not vetted at all.
• 24:55
  They don't confirm anything at all. All the information on there is stuff you put in yourself. So whether people review it or not, but it just because it's there doesn't mean they're safe people or that they know what they're doing. So it is a resource as a starting place where maybe someone you contact would know someone who's good at that, but it doesn't necessarily mean just because you find them there that they're a good therapist. I could do a whole episode just on the lousy therapists that we have found or the terrible responses we have gotten trying to find a new therapist.
• 25:30
  So that's another idea. The third idea that I would suggest is you could look up on the EMDR website, like EMDR IA or something like that. You could look up for one of those therapists, find an EMDR therapist who, again, I'm not saying you should do EMDR, but maybe they would know someone who could work specifically with whatever your issues are. So that would be my recommendations for the three places anyone, at least in The States, could find a new therapist. This email says, We've been wanting to write to you for quite a while now, and I finally decided that I need to go ahead and do it.
• 26:15
  I wanted to let you know, first of all, that your podcast is our absolute favorite. Aw, that's so nice. And we listen to a lot of podcasts. So does my husband. My husband always has a podcast going, like all the time.
• 26:29
  We listen to a lot of them that entertain us, some that educate us, but yours also inspire us, encourage us, validate us, and challenge us. Oh, you guys are going to make me cry. You have dropped so many truth bombs on us that have helped us to see things in a different light and helped us to understand our own DID system better. One of the things that I think is really special about your podcast is the fact that you can speak about DID from the perspective of both a survivor and a mental health professional. I guess it depends on who's talking to you.
• 27:09
  That's huge because it means that you can help, and I believe you have already started to help to bridge the gap between those two groups. I cannot begin to tell you how much our system and me specifically appreciates that. We know how much therapy can help us if we have a therapist who understands DID, as we have for several years now. But before we met that therapist, we spent about nine years with five different therapists who misdiagnosed us and gave us advice that was not only unhelpful, but at times harmful. Oh my goodness.
• 27:47
  I hear you. This is so common, and it is so wrong and unfortunate, and I am so sorry you have been through this. We believe that they weren't trying to harm us. They just didn't know enough about DID to recognize it when it was literally staring them in the face. That's why your podcast is so important to us and why we believe it is important to the world.
• 28:12
  There are a lot of DID survivors out there who have a mistrust of therapists due to being misdiagnosed and a lot of therapists out there who can help their clients better if they understand more about DID and trauma in general. Because of this, I was excited when I heard on your latest episode, your call for people to help you transcribe your episodes. I feel like that's something that I and others in our system would like to do as a way of giving back to you and your podcast that has helped us so much. Oh my goodness, another one. I'm gonna cry the way you guys have stepped up.
• 28:48
  I am so, so grateful. This means so much to me that we can get some of these transcribed so the podcast is more accessible to more people. Thank you. I will message you about that. Bell says, I've been following and listening to your podcast avidly since I found out about it.
• 29:08
  You've helped me to learn more about my system and to understand it better. You often give me words for feelings I felt for so long, but couldn't understand. That means the world to me. Your interviews and personal podcasts have taught me so much, and I'm so thankful that you continue to do them for us all. I love hearing about toxic positivity and how pervasive it is.
• 29:32
  It's been so validating. You mentioned previously a few times on the podcast about how grounding could be harmful to people with CPTSD or DID, and it really piqued my interest. I haven't heard much about that. I'm still a little confused, but hope to hear more about it someday. Thank you again for all you do.
• 29:53
  We've wanted to email you guys for a while, but we always get scared. I hope you have the best day you can have today. Belle, that's a great question. So a couple things. Like, I'm not sure.
• 30:02
  I'm sorry. I can't remember everything, but I'm not sure what was referenced. But one thing is that often survivors, which is a term we are reclaiming, the term survivors, by the way. I we are totally in that movement and and helping give people courage to do that because it's such a powerful experience. But as survivors, we often confuse the difference between grounding and orienting, which are different things.
• 30:38
  They can be reinforced through similar means or techniques or practices, but they are not at the same, like it's not the same goal or the same thing you're accomplishing. Grounded has to do with being back in your body and feeling yourself in the world around you. Orienting has to do with knowing who you are and when you are and where you are. Does that make sense? So that's part of it.
• 31:07
  The other part of it is that when we already dissociate so much, then some things like meditation or other practices, if you use them intentionally, that can be very helpful at times, but it can also make things worse sometimes because you're already dissociating, and that is a dissociative practice. It is a dissociative technique. So, like, that's a whole different podcast by itself, and maybe we can talk about that. But just in general, that's sort of the difference. But we can absolutely talk about that on a future episode.
• 31:50
  Thank you, Belle. Steph says, I know you probably get a million emails, but I just wanted to say thank you for your courage in sharing your story. After more than a decade of seeking mental health treatment, Starting with a diagnosis of schizophrenia, I've recently been diagnosed with DID. I'm trying to figure out how all of this fits for me and it's confusing and overwhelming. I don't remember trauma, so it's hard to make sense of it.
• 32:20
  I found your podcast and have been listening and thinking. It's been helpful because I have a little one, so don't have time for videos or reading so much. I'm also a practitioner in my country, and so I'm thankful there are people like you brave enough to fight the stigma about this. Oh, thank you so much for writing in stuff, and I'm glad you've found it. And I'm sorry that you have been through such struggle of the misdiagnosis, but so very glad that you've gotten an accurate diagnosis and that you are feeling connected to both that experience and to the help that you're getting now.
• 33:03
  And thank you for your tenacity through all of that and your courage in writing in to share with us. Bill says, It was wonderful meeting you at the Healing Together conference. I've been following your podcast for quite a while now and had a real fan rush getting to meet you almost in person. Your coming out to our colleagues was both a model and a challenge for me. I wish you well.
• 33:28
  Oh my goodness. You guys, I'm so stinking excited that he wrote in because we are a fan of Bill. So, the feeling is mutual, and I'm so excited that you wrote in, and we can write you back. I just want to tell you that you were delightful, except that he called on me to speak when we had to take turns and pick who went next. I was like, oh, man.
• 33:54
  Except that's okay because then I threw my friend under the bus too, so we're all even. Good job. Thank you so much for connecting. Seriously, I am delighted. I am delighted, and I will message you.
• 34:07
  Thank you. Laura says, Hello, my name is Laura. I too am a system. Here we have myself Oh, and then there's a lot of names. I just, for safety, don't wanna read all those names.
• 34:19
  We are new on this journey and only have been learning about ourselves and DID for about eight months. We have an amazing trauma therapist who has helped us navigate this world as a team and just started with a new psychiatrist, although she seems rather skeptical about DID, which of course makes us mad as we know we exist. I am hoping in time she will understand. Oh, that's Trixie, you guys. I'm so sorry.
• 34:46
  We are so relieved to have found your podcast and find ourselves relating to much of your content. We are so grateful for all you've done to show the world that DID is nothing to be ashamed of or afraid of and to help fight the stigma. When we found your podcast, we felt like for the first time we belonged somewhere. Up until then, we have just kind of felt like we didn't belong here, like we were just dropped on this planet with nobody like us. It was miserable.
• 35:14
  We attended the DID conference last weekend and found it so helpful and validating. Thank you for everything you do. Oh my goodness. That conference is amazing. And, yes, until you find people who understand, you always have that like Clarissa Pinkola Estes calls it the mistaken zygote syndrome, like, where you just don't belong, like the ugly duckling.
• 35:39
  Like, you can't find your place. But when you find people who know DID and accept you as you are for who you are, there is nothing like that feeling of belonging and safety and attunement and all the things required for relational healing. It is incredible, and I am so glad that you have found your way, and welcome. Thank you for your email.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: Thank you for listening. Your support of the podcast, the workbooks, and the community means so much to us as we try to create something together that's never been done before, not like this.