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ManTa1k133:From Prison To Prosperity · Military Broadcast Radio | MBR Talk

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dot US. Welcome to Man Talk 133 with
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Charles and Darl, the movement dedicated to empowering men,
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Welcome to Man Talk 133 with Shaw and Daryl.
2:11
Welcome everybody into the show this evening.
2:15
Hey bro, what's going on man? Hey, what's going on bro?
2:17
How you feeling man? How you feeling to it man?
2:19
We got a special, special guest on today.
2:23
Y'all we got Roy Chucky Bolus. We call him Chucky Brother
2:29
Bolus. Good How y'all?
2:33
Doing. Doing good, man, You know, You
2:36
know, I wanted to bring you on man, 'cause you have a very,
2:39
very intriguing story. I'm put it that way.
2:44
You know what I mean? Is a, is a, is a the reason why
2:47
I got a show from prison to Prosperity.
2:49
Prosperity because that's exactly from what I see happen
2:56
for you right so if you could man just tell them tell the
3:01
people a little bit about you and then we're going to get into
3:03
your story a little bit. I got some questions I got to
3:05
ask. You know what I mean?
3:06
I just got to all. Right, my name.
3:11
Is Roy Bolas and my story actually took a turn for the
3:18
worst. When I was young, I was a little
3:20
kid inspired by the individuals and the hood quote UN quote, you
3:26
know. Oh yeah.
3:28
Trying to learn what a man should be or would be by placing
3:33
my attention in the areas that actually can cause someone to
3:37
lose their lives. Fortunately, I didn't lose my
3:40
life, but I lost a good portion of my life when I was
3:45
incarcerated for attempting to be a drug dealer and would have
3:50
been a violent situation. And I ended up being convicted
3:54
of 80 years of life and after that 80 years of life.
3:59
I served 31 years. And what happened is during that
4:05
course of time, it would be fair to say that I've started to read
4:12
a lot, come across a mentor by the name of Eddie Ellis, who had
4:17
a profound effect on so many people inside, particularly the
4:23
youth. And what he did is send some of
4:26
the influential youth in the prison out to get the other
4:31
youth like me who were coming in that was slightly younger,
4:34
because they didn't want the guys running amok inside,
4:38
hurting one another and not understanding all of the
4:41
different reactions or the backlash of their actions when
4:45
they actually hurt one another or hurt the community and so on
4:49
and so forth. So he had sent some guys come
4:52
talk to me and put us all in the room, started asking us if we
4:58
actually analyzed the things that we were doing community
5:02
know that the families that are left behind that are hurting our
5:07
own families, families of other individuals, the havoc that was
5:12
being impacted upon all of those who were in those neighborhoods
5:18
and communities. And he gave me a list of books
5:21
to read. He kept teaching us.
5:23
He got all of the youth inside the room.
5:26
He was a, a strong pillar because he had actually went for
5:30
a master's degree. And as a part of his master's
5:33
degree, it was agreed upon that he thought a social program,
5:37
which was called resurrection and Resurrection actually had
5:44
the goal and objective of trying to raise the intellect of
5:47
individuals so they can be better, you know, not only just
5:52
for the time being, but for the rest of their lives.
5:55
So I was taken aback because I never, I, I, in fact, you would
5:59
never think that I had a doctorate degree or anything of
6:01
that nature because I hated. To read right, right.
6:04
And we're going to get into that too, because that's that's an
6:06
interesting part of your story. We're going.
6:09
We definitely don't get into that for sure.
6:12
Yeah. So man, yeah, go ahead bro.
6:16
Life, any change, I was thinking myself as well as many other
6:21
individuals and I just never looked back.
6:24
You know, I never looked back and I that I probably was going
6:28
to end up dying in prison. You know, so let me ask you this
6:32
so so let's go back to you say I think it was about 80 years or
6:37
something like that, I believe, right.
6:39
So being young, because these are some of the questions I had
6:44
to ask being young, being 18, I know being on the streets, you
6:48
know, tough guy, right? So what was it like going into
6:53
like Rikers Island and some of these other places as a as a
6:58
teenager, basically, right. Because now you going from, you
7:04
know, going in with grown men and killers from being on the
7:07
street to like, you know, being free.
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Now you're here with these grown men.
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How was that experience? Was it feel for I'm pretty sure
7:16
it was in the beginning, but what was that like?
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Because I know some people probably want to know like, Hey,
7:22
I know I do. What was it like at that age and
7:26
knowing you have that much time to do in a a a place like that?
7:31
Yeah, definitely helpless and hopeless situation and the
7:37
feelings that it's hard to even put it into words.
7:40
But you ever like find yourself in a situation where you just
7:46
felt that somebody had just snatched your soul out of your
7:49
body and that and you and you trying to grab on to something
7:55
to hold on to. And in my mind, I actually had
7:59
figured if they found me guilty, I'm going to find cyanide and
8:02
I'm going to bite down on the pill right there.
8:07
Because, right, the jails, the prisons, they're abnormal
8:12
environments, but the people that are contained therein, they
8:17
convinced themselves that it's a normal way of living.
8:20
And this where all of the different criminal propensities
8:24
actually take place. This is how they become criminal
8:26
minded and they become tenured. Someone, some will are willing
8:30
to accept it and they're in it and thrive in it.
8:34
And I knew that wasn't me. You know, my thing was young
8:40
dude and took the wrong turn. And I'm going to tell you how
8:43
twisted I was because I was actually prepared for
8:47
orientation in college a month after I had gotten arrested.
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So I was preparing to go to college.
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It has some screw, you know, when you have the older men
8:59
coming to tell you like, this is how you be a man.
9:01
This is how you get your respect.
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This is what you do when you come from a broken home.
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And though my dad was there in my life and I saw him quite
9:09
often, unlike many of my other friends, he wasn't in the
9:12
household itself. So that left for the streets to
9:16
come in and say, hey, mom, dad is not here.
9:21
Chicks like you, right? How to get fixed.
9:24
You know, we can show you how to get the cars and all the name
9:26
brand and look, just yeah, come, let me show you.
9:29
And and that was it. So you take a young man who has
9:32
low self esteem and has no knowledge of himself.
9:35
He has no knowledge of the social, economic and political
9:38
ramifications surrounding him. He knows nothing.
9:42
And then here comes this dude knocking.
9:44
Say I'm going to show you how to be a man and that's how I got
9:47
hooked. And that's not to even shift the
9:49
blame on anything because when I'm giving lectures and speaking
9:52
to all of these brothers across the country and I only just all
9:56
different races, all different belief systems, when I'm
9:59
speaking to them, always tell them that you always have a
10:04
choice. Let me make it straight for you
10:07
because the quickest way that the criminal like to go is to
10:10
cut a corner and say, yo, I'm oppressed.
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I had to do what I had to do and all like right, I did. 31 out of
10:19
y'all cast are playing with it. Y'all playing for crumbs, Y'all
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doing 2 years, three years and you're crying like babies and
10:24
you keep coming back. You have a choice.
10:28
Don't. Get me wrong?
10:30
Because I mean, I, I mean, I we're the only one riding around
10:33
being shot down by cops. You know, obviously something
10:36
ain't right. You know what?
10:37
I mean right at at. Rate, you know something is
10:42
wrong, you know, the only ones who have a problem getting
10:45
certain loans and housing and and business loans and you know
10:49
all I mean, you just name it like Michelle Alexander book the
10:54
New Jim Crow. She just took the stats and she
10:57
applied the stats and showed that something was wrong with an
11:00
imbalance. So I'll give it to you inside of
11:03
that you have you know, that's the difference between me
11:08
Charles that never had went to president and had went through
11:12
any because he made a choice to do something.
11:14
You know all the Darrells or other guys who I.
11:17
Had said no I'm. I'm not going the way you're
11:20
going. You know, so you have.
11:22
But it's a very harrowing experience, man, I, I swear.
11:27
And now going back and thinking about that child in that
11:32
situation, it's something so demeaning, so, so scary, so
11:39
fearful. I recall one time my mom and dad
11:41
came to see me and I feel so on it.
11:45
And my mom trying to hold up her, her, her, her, but a
11:50
strength, you know, and my dad and thing, and they had us
11:54
talking through a phone and, and a window and everything just
11:59
came down on me, man. And I cried.
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I cried, man. And you don't do that in jail.
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You know what I'm? Right I.
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Mean in that small book, I was that little boy again.
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And the courts were determined to show that no, he's not no
12:15
child. He is a nuisance.
12:17
He's a he's a terror. He's he's one of those who don't
12:21
deserve to be. And and for that moment, I was
12:23
allowed to show mom and dad that I am still that little boy dead
12:31
to death. And I don't know what to do.
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And I'm trying to keep my school's together and not fall
12:38
apart. And mom, she she started crying.
12:41
She passed the phone off to my father.
12:44
He trying to hold it together. I found out later that he held
12:46
it together. And when he left and walked
12:48
through that gate, he let it go. I bet.
12:51
Yeah. So you don't think about that
12:54
type of pain because to see that pain in their faces, who could
12:59
not be affected? You, you got to have a cold
13:01
heart to not think about. You hurt the aunts, the uncles,
13:06
the parents, the grandparents, and they all come and still
13:09
trying to stand behind me. I got to a point where I told my
13:13
family, don't come to court. Don't no, we need to be there to
13:18
support you. I said, listen to me.
13:20
Don't come to court. I'm good.
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And I don't, I mean, I know it was God.
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It's, it's not your doctor. I don't know where, but I, I had
13:30
told them I humiliated this family, my community, you know,
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and you don't deserve to have to come up here and see this.
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And I and it hit me when I came off the elevator one time and I
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had shackles and a chain around my waist and, and, and our
13:50
handcuffs on my arms. And my mom and dad, soon as the
13:53
elevator open, they sitting there and they look like a deer
13:56
caught in headlights. Oh humiliated soul.
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And I'm like, they don't deserve this man.
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I got them sitting here you and and indirectly against them.
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And and I just told them I got it.
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I'm a ride out, ride out alone and and you're going to make me
14:15
weak if I see you. I need to be strong.
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And nobody can understand that, you know, and that's how I made
14:23
it. I did the whole thing and went
14:25
through trial, blue trial and everything and was found guilty
14:29
and had to go take my so to speak, OK.
14:33
Cool. So you know we're going to get
14:35
more into this. We got like a little break that
14:37
we that we coming up to. So but that's kind of giving a
14:42
glimpse of to the people of kind of what I want them to kind of
14:46
see, especially the young people when you looking at like Haiti,
14:50
there's no way you can really really kind of like make that
14:54
feel better, you know what I'm saying?
14:55
So we're going to jump back into more this right after this
14:59
break, y'all. Military broadcast radio, the
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station that's giving veterans a voice.
18:02
Find us on the web at MB radio dot.
18:06
Opinions expressed in this program are those of the
18:09
speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions
18:14
of any entities they represent. I'll come back to Man Talk 1 and
18:22
Dara, we back up with a, with a special Brother Roy.
18:26
Yeah, yeah, man. Yeah.
18:28
Well, Brother Roy, I'm going to tap in real quick, man.
18:30
I'll do your thing. I'm on, I'm gonna, you know, I'm
18:33
gonna kind of piggyback off, you know, you and Charlotte whatever
18:35
'cause you know, we interview you.
18:37
The people want to, you know, they want to hear your story.
18:40
We want you to get your story out.
18:42
So, you know, I'm gonna kind of like lay back.
18:45
I'm gonna ask you, you know, just a few questions here and
18:46
there, but the people want to hear you, you know, your side
18:49
and stuff like that. But I'll go back to what you
18:52
said earlier. I feel you about the when you
18:54
said you was like, you know, when you was crying, like with
18:58
the visitation or whatever. Because it was like when I go
19:01
back when I was working and I first got the military I was
19:04
working in at Caledonia Shark and the test of that state
19:08
bridge down here, right. And I used to have to witness
19:12
that, like the guys get visits and they get ready to leave.
19:16
They only got like a couple of hours visit visitation, right?
19:19
And their kids be leaving and they be crying and all this
19:24
stuff. Man, I'll be like, man, I, I and
19:27
the outside of God, I think that's what kept me out of
19:30
there, out out of there, because I actually worked in there for a
19:32
few years. So I kind of saw what it was
19:35
like, you know what I'm saying? And I was like, man, I don't
19:38
know. How do you guys, you know,
19:39
handle it? You know what I'm saying?
19:40
And I'm like you too, I probably would have been looking for that
19:43
cyanide pill, you know what I'm saying?
19:46
So or try to jump the fence or something.
19:48
But I think like you said, man, as far as like, you know, you
19:53
say trying to be a man. I think with these young guys
19:56
too, it's kind of like they see their easy money or the quick
20:00
fix, you know, and that's where they get out there so quick on.
20:04
It's so quick. We'll take on that.
20:06
Just quick fix that easy money, you know?
20:12
Yeah. I agree.
20:18
Later on one of my main arguments and trying to find way
20:22
out was that I had to study on the prefrontal lobe of the brain
20:29
developed. The brain is inside of the
20:32
adolescent, adolescent, well, the late teens, so they say
20:39
usually between 13 and I think 19.
20:42
And what happens is there the the scientists and the courts
20:48
were coming to the conclusion that how do you sentence these
20:51
young people like, and they can't think past go that, and
20:55
I'm paraphrasing, it's a injustice to actually sentence
21:01
them in this manner. If they can't think of the
21:05
consequences, they can't really ponder the actions.
21:08
They might know right and wrong, but they don't know the depth
21:12
and read that. I said that is me on steroids.
21:17
Like I didn't even I couldn't even the backlash behind it.
21:23
I didn't think about how just to be a drug dealer, you might end
21:27
up having to carry a gun illegally.
21:29
You might end up having a transport, some type of product
21:33
from point A to point B, and you could get caught up like you.
21:37
You just think about that. And it's so bad that over the
21:42
years they used to tell me the prisons would come up to me
21:45
like, you don't belong here. And I'm like, no, he's like, yo,
21:52
I've been doing this for such a such amount of years.
21:56
You do not belong here. You know, and it, and I, I mean,
22:00
it was a compliment, but at the time it was an insult because
22:03
I'm like, you know, I hope y'all ain't looking.
22:08
But what they were saying is that we, for the most part, made
22:12
this a part of our lives. You know, you and they're trying
22:16
to make it seem like you're one of us.
22:20
I did read that research in the course a hold of it.
22:23
I was like, this is what I've been trying to explain from the
22:26
very beginning because I didn't have that through juvenile
22:31
delinquent facilities and foster homes and the stuff that make
22:35
your heart hard hearted or abuse or sexual abuse or emotional
22:40
abuse or physical abuse that a lot of the kids get and these
22:43
adoption during these adoptions. And I didn't have that because
22:48
the ultimate destination is prison with most of the guys.
22:53
And when I'm going to the prisons and speaking to the guys
22:56
in prisons across the country, what happens is I find out that
22:59
a lot of them have taken that same journey.
23:03
You know, mom is either a prostitute or she's strung out
23:06
on drugs. She ends up dying.
23:08
Dad's nowhere to be found. So the family don't want to be
23:12
bothered with the child. The system have to step in the
23:15
system come and get them, put them in foster care.
23:17
They grow up in foster homes, which are like training grounds
23:20
for prison. And they got to hold their own,
23:24
join a gang while they're in the foster home or the the juvenile,
23:28
the Lincoln facility. And all they learn is
23:31
institutionalization. All they learn is that to be a
23:35
man, you have to be violent. If you're not violent, you're
23:40
weak and you're going to be prey, you know, So be as violent
23:43
as you can. No room for tears.
23:45
There's no room for processing your feelings.
23:48
There's no room. And me, since I didn't come up
23:52
through there and I had so many friends that came through there,
23:54
I was just kind of like how you say promoted or skipped, you
23:59
know, get a chance to go from first grade to 12.
24:03
I went 12 prison wise, you know, so I was violent situation and
24:11
to felonies and never had a chance to get misdemeanors,
24:14
never had a chance to go to juvenile delinquency or nothing
24:17
on in there. So my education had came real
24:21
quick. And on top of that, you know,
24:25
there were there was like a, how could I say actions and, you
24:30
know, that wanted to hurt me and, you know, and then I had to
24:34
find a way to hurt them back before they hurt me.
24:36
And so there was a lot of pressure going on.
24:39
But that one moment in the booth with mom and dad was that time
24:42
when the little kid came out and those they were.
24:47
I'm confused. I messed up.
24:50
This is not what I wanted to be, you know, And I know I messed up
24:53
big and I don't know if I'm going to make it.
24:57
And I know you expected more of me.
24:59
You know, those tears said so many things because that was
25:02
probably the only time. In fact, it was the only time
25:07
that I cried while I was inside in front of my mom and dad.
25:12
The only time that tears came down my face was after a guilty
25:15
verdict and they were sentencing me to the rest of my life
25:18
inside. But it was the glamour.
25:22
I realized that I was suffering from low self and a lot of guys
25:27
can't say that you know when they're coming through because
25:30
that's basically what it is. Yeah.
25:33
Yeah, nothing. That you come from an area that
25:35
is nothing. You come from a demographic
25:37
where they are nothing, you know, and you don't learn
25:41
anything about yourself. And then all of a sudden you got
25:44
to find a way to validate yourself.
25:45
It's a human thing. They try to, you know,
25:49
particular demographic is suffering from something that
25:51
nobody else is suffering from with the bell curve theory and
25:55
all of this stuff that I had to study that was eating me up
25:58
inside, you know, and but you know, God don't make mistakes.
26:01
I learned it for a reason because there was a mission for
26:04
me, you know, and did learn. I said this is a human thing.
26:08
This is not a race thing. This is not a class thing.
26:11
This is not a gender thing. All human beings want to be
26:14
validated somehow. Yeah, that's true.
26:18
That's true. So I got.
26:21
Screen where we come from. But you know, it's just a human
26:24
thing. Yeah, yeah.
26:26
So let me go back to OK, so you so now you have this 80 year
26:33
sentence. You see mom and dad, you know,
26:37
you get the crying out the way, you get the thoughts of wanting
26:40
to take yourself out out the way.
26:43
Now you did 30 30, right, 3031 somewhere in that area, right.
26:49
So how did you navigate like through this?
26:54
Like it's like a I'm, I'm pretty sure it's like this concrete
26:57
jungle where you got to watch yourself all the time, your head
27:01
on a swivel all the time. How did you navigate through
27:05
that without having to join gangs or, you know, and still
27:10
keeping your focus because we're going to get into your education
27:12
piece and how you, you know, they got the degrees and stuff
27:16
inside of there, but how did you navigate through that part of
27:19
it? So once I couldn't find my
27:22
cyanide right, got enough heart on those strings, you know, and
27:35
I had to kind of take the inventory of what was to come.
27:43
I figured that I'll just pull every iota of strength from.
27:48
And. And try to stay the course and
27:52
try to keep hope, you know. And when I got from the 'cause
27:57
you go to a county jail, like the process is you get arrested.
28:02
Once you get arrested, you go to a precinct.
28:04
Once you go to a precinct, you end up going to the county jail
28:07
and then the county jail you trial.
28:09
And then once you blow trial, they take you and they send you
28:12
to state, which is called the big house.
28:14
A lot of people call the big house once they prison.
28:18
That's where you have guys raping young guys.
28:23
You have guys killing one another over nothing or drugs or
28:26
debt or I mean, and they sent me to one of the worst, you know.
28:31
I mean, I tell you, man, when I backtrack, I tell you, if nobody
28:35
believe God is real, I love because you cannot have any
28:40
nation for my life. And the way it happened and the
28:42
way it played out other than God, because they sent me to one
28:45
of the worst prisons ever. And in this prison they were
28:51
killing each other up. I mean, the if the officers
28:54
didn't find a way to get you and cripple you and lame you or make
28:58
you lame or, or make the, the, the prisoners were definitely
29:02
vying for a way. Give me an excuse, you know,
29:05
and, and I had to embrace the abnormality, serve myself.
29:15
It sounds like an oxymoron, but it, it, that's exactly what
29:18
happened. I, I case in point, I had a guy
29:21
come with me one time and said, look, if somebody put a cupcake
29:23
on your bed, you got to get a knife and stab them.
29:28
Get a knife and stab them for giving me some cupcakes.
29:31
Right. Yeah, normal world, you know,
29:35
and I'm. Young and I'm.
29:39
Why would I say like, because in here what they do is they give
29:44
you things and they tag, they tack on interest to it.
29:49
And once usually you can't pay the interest.
29:53
So they gave me an example. Somebody keep putting a cupcake
29:55
on the bed or something for you every night or whatever.
29:58
And then somebody will pop up in front of yourself and was like,
30:00
hey, you got those cupcakes? What I'm saying, you know, I
30:02
figured you were hungry. You just coming through family
30:05
and come up here. Yeah.
30:06
What so have you? And and he's like, yo, so when
30:08
you get time, I need you to give me a cup back.
30:11
And you also probably going to have to give me $100 because,
30:16
you know, Yeah. And and so, and then it becomes
30:19
let me get $100 from, I don't know, but you better get my
30:22
money to me. Hey, check it.
30:25
Hold on for one second. We'll be right up against the
30:27
break because this is some of the stuff that I wanted to hear
30:30
about. So we'll be right back after the
30:32
break, right? OK.
33:59
Military broadcast radio, the station that's giving veterans a
34:04
voice. Find us on the web at MB radio
34:07
dot. Opinions expressed in this
34:10
programme are those of the speakers and do not necessarily
34:15
reflect the views or positions of any entities they represent.
34:21
Come back to Man Talk 133 with Charles and Sarah.
34:24
We got Chucky up here and we were just talking about them
34:27
cupcakes. Yeah, we say the honey bun.
34:33
Yeah, the. Interest.
34:35
Pardon me. But but you know what, man, I
34:41
was thinking about what he was saying as far as like, we're
34:44
going to get to the cupcakes, but I just wanted to put it out
34:46
there like he's talking about the prison, the guys, it's
34:50
nothing but the guys, right? The fellows, right.
34:53
And I always tell guys that it kind of that kind of puts me in
35:00
the mind of like the, the infantry units, if I can use
35:04
military, because in, in like, he's not, you know, he's not
35:07
allowed. No women around.
35:09
When you do see women and nurses or whatever, you know, you, you
35:12
guys kind of flip the lid or whatever.
35:14
And then it's like in the infantry unit, like you can use
35:17
in the jail unit, you can look around, you know, who's the
35:21
leader, You know, who to stay away from, who, who who's half
35:25
crazy, if you want to use that word.
35:28
Yeah, who the alpha is. You kind of know all those
35:30
things like, yo, man, don't bother with this kid over here.
35:33
You know, he kind of like, you know, he the alpha, he kind of
35:35
off the whack or whatever. So it's count that kind of put
35:38
me in the mind of what he's what he's talking about, about when
35:40
he went in there and then he found his foot in.
35:44
And then like when the guys like, say outside of putting
35:46
cupcakes, you know, like, I understand that's what the, what
35:49
The thing is in in prison or whatever.
35:51
But outside of putting cupcakes on the bed and, you know, got to
35:54
stab somebody, you know, it kind of put me in the mind of like a
35:58
whole military mindset, you know, like with an all male
36:01
unit, you know what I'm saying? So that's what kind.
36:04
Of pissed me. Yeah, stay on your pivot even
36:07
though, you know, you're not in, you're not locked in behind
36:09
bars, but it's that same type of kind of mentality and you got
36:14
to, you can't be the weak link. You know, if you in the in that
36:17
infantry unit, you, you can't be the weak link.
36:20
You got to, you got to stand on your 10 and all this stuff like
36:24
like, like kind of like what Brother Roy was talking about.
36:26
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah.
36:30
Allergy too, though, because predominantly male environment
36:33
you're going to get a lot from flying all over the place and
36:38
definitely gets a little more exaggerated.
36:40
Definitely inside of the but that's a good analogy too.
36:45
You, you, you stay on your P's and Q's.
36:47
And then and as a child, I could feel myself, my, my mores, my
36:52
ethics, my norms. I can feel all of it changing,
36:57
you know, in order to survive. I can't keep the mind state that
37:02
I had prior to being locked up because I would die, you know,
37:08
or lose my sanity or, or I would become food, so to speak, like
37:13
they say. Yeah, I had to kind of like
37:17
morphs and become more aware of my surroundings, watch body
37:22
language, read body, you know, and fortunately I didn't have
37:28
her ever have to run into the cupcake situation, you know,
37:33
right. To aggress against me because I
37:37
would. I didn't have any.
37:40
Always been a skinny guy and light skin on top of that.
37:45
And so guys coming young like that.
37:48
You have predators that have been in there 15202530 years.
37:52
They try to plays and stuff. That's the whole purpose of the
37:57
cupcake. Oh, you can't pay me.
37:59
Well, you're going to either have to wash my clothes and
38:01
that's that's washing somebody's underwear is one of the most
38:05
humiliating things. You know.
38:08
You know, and if you're not going to watch my things, then
38:11
you might come and I'll be in your cell and you're going to
38:14
have to take care of me another way, you know, So when
38:19
individuals knew that, you know, I was a man like you, we we're
38:23
not going to have that, you know, and have to be aggressive
38:27
early on just a little bit. I didn't have to really worry
38:31
about that. And then my team also, because I
38:34
realized that there were individuals in there that I knew
38:37
that, you know what, like running crazy and everything.
38:41
And they knew that me, you know, not only had they run up against
38:45
me, they had to run up against guys who really do also, you
38:49
know, so, but inside it didn't make a difference really who you
38:52
knew because if you were weak and you weren't a strong team,
38:57
kick you out of the car. You know, you can't ride in the
38:59
car thing. So you got backbone and be a
39:03
man. And once that was taken care of,
39:06
you know, I started going through different phases and I
39:11
had to make sure that I was aware of who was who.
39:15
I had to be aware of how people react, how the guards react.
39:21
You know, what would be their response, how you can find
39:23
yourself caught up in a situation and you don't have
39:25
anything to do with anything because somebody stabbed someone
39:27
and then slid the knife by your feet, your feet in the line and
39:31
they come and get you. His hand, his hand, he just
39:33
dropped it on the floor and they started eating with the and, or
39:37
just fright you and whatever. But you had to be very, very
39:41
much aware. It was so much pressure, so much
39:44
stress for me for so many years because that I walked out of the
39:50
cell. It was like a chess board and I
39:53
refused to be checkmated, you know, and I had to that board in
39:58
a way that the average prisoner didn't learn.
40:00
And obviously I learned it by. Thought I learned it well
40:03
because I made it through unscathed and I ended up getting
40:07
out, you know, but it was a heck of a chess game and it can cost
40:11
you your life. You know that.
40:16
Staying the course and learning to be a man or be strong, It had
40:23
its fruit. Also, you know, I, I, I found
40:26
myself going to the law library a lot.
40:29
I didn't have time to run the yard too much.
40:31
I would get into stuff from early on, a little food, a few
40:36
scuffs, fights, fights, law library trying to fight for my
40:41
life. And a lot of the old timers were
40:43
well tenured criminals were like young blood.
40:45
You got to get to the law library.
40:47
Like, I'm not going to misguide you.
40:49
You need to be in the law. They on the loop.
40:52
Yeah, Yeah. And they put the they put the
40:53
fear guard in me, man, I was I was in that law trying to learn
40:57
all of this jogging with my high, you know, that old to law
41:04
school to learn and be able to articulate and all man.
41:08
And and I mean, it was just so hopeless and I feel so helpless,
41:12
but you know, stand behind me. I was able to call home.
41:16
I was able to keep money in the camping, you know, the common.
41:19
I was able to people, you know, that cared about me and that
41:24
meant a lot, you know, But it was definitely a scary situation
41:28
and a lot of fear involved as well, you know.
41:33
So, so with all the fear and all of that that was involved in it,
41:38
let's go into the education piece.
41:41
How did you stay focused enough to get the degrees that you
41:46
have? I mean, you can outline the
41:48
degrees that you have because he's a very intelligent brother.
41:51
And then we can talk about, you know, what you did at the prison
41:56
with those degrees. You know what I mean?
41:59
OK, So what happened with me is that I, I was angry with myself
42:04
because I said if I would have known, I wouldn't be in here,
42:12
that I was bamboozled. I didn't know.
42:17
I mean, I knew right and wrong, but I didn't know all of the
42:20
surrounding ramifications of getting in, being subjected to
42:24
all these different type of people who were doing all this
42:28
craziness and all these the guards, the prisoners or
42:30
whoever, people who didn't care about you.
42:33
I didn't about the family. And we'll have to keep
42:35
travelling back and forth who are getting old over the years,
42:39
watching my little sisters and my little brother and all of
42:42
them growing up turning into adults and I'm missing all of
42:45
these different family gathering.
42:47
I didn't put that inside of the formula and the calculation and
42:52
I angry at myself. So I said I will never, ever,
42:56
ever put myself in a situation where I'm not aware of what I'm
43:00
doing, what the consequences will be.
43:03
That's just lack of intelligence, period, you know,
43:06
So I vowed to make sure that I learned everything that I could
43:09
learn. Once I started to read books,
43:12
the world opened up to me. Started to learn about
43:16
socialism, communism, communism, capitalism, investing, stocks,
43:21
bonds. I, I mean, the world just opened
43:24
up because Eddie had said, read this, understand the leaders are
43:28
understand who the followers are, you know, understand what
43:31
you want to do, how what you want to be.
43:33
And, and he convinced us because college at the time was free for
43:37
everyone inside. And he is like, you know, spend
43:41
time, go to college, you know, don't think that college is just
43:44
for somebody else. College is for you also.
43:46
And I went to college and started reading more books and
43:49
everything is open up. You know, it's like the Angel
43:52
started singing and everything. I just, it was so vast and when
43:57
I started going through different social awareness
44:03
classes like Resurrection, I realized that I was my turn now
44:06
as one of the older young guys to go out and get younger guys
44:12
and coming upon me to make sure that I represent the program
44:19
properly. So I couldn't talk one way and
44:23
then go out to the yard and walk the other way because there was
44:25
a check and balance and guys would be like, Yo, you're
44:28
supposed to be part of that. Why are you doing this?
44:30
And so I had to fix up my walk, tighten up my walk, kind of like
44:34
walk what I was learning. And, and, and then if I was
44:38
talking it, I definitely had to walk it.
44:40
And then one day there that it's your turn to actually become one
44:44
of the leaders in the in the program to speak to the younger
44:49
guys coming through. And I, I mean, I never had
44:54
public speaking. I remember the first time they
44:56
put me up to speak, my ass sweat running down my back.
45:01
Yeah. That's the only thing that I can
45:04
and I was like, and but it would get me groomed and it get me
45:09
ready and they decided to take the college program out of the
45:15
prisons and that kind of angry because what I did find out is
45:21
that the only thing that seemed to be efficiently reducing
45:26
recidivism was the college education and we had and
45:32
everything. But they were taking college
45:33
saying that taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for criminals to get
45:37
college. You know, and and I understand I
45:39
mean, I I got it. I mean, I'm out here now and
45:41
then you paying taxes all over the place and then you, well,
45:44
you want to take some of my taxes and and put these guys
45:46
through and they committed a crime.
45:47
But if it's a society that's trying to deal with a sickness.
45:52
And you? I try to exhaust every angry or
45:58
from every point of view that you can to try and help a
46:02
sickness and the sickness is criminality or drug addiction or
46:06
whatso have you. Why not exhaust everything that
46:08
you have to make the society better rather than be so selfish
46:12
and say no, I'm not paying for that.
46:13
But you have no answers. So what happens is these
46:16
individuals come back out and they're colder than they went in
46:19
before and they're going to repeat you.
46:22
Know we up against this last break.
46:26
Hey, once we come out the break, we're going to let you finish up
46:28
because I got like a couple more questions.
46:30
I got to ask these questions. So we'll be right back here
46:32
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47:33
station that's giving veterans a voice.
47:36
Find us. On the web at MB Radio.
47:41
Opinions expressed in this program are those of the
47:43
speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions
47:48
of any entities they represent. Welcome back to and Talk 133
47:57
with Chuck and we on with Chucky y'all.
48:00
He got a very interesting story. So he was talking before the
48:04
break. You know how they took their
48:05
education and stuff out. You know, I do believe you have
48:08
like a bachelor's, master's and what else you got, Chuck.
48:13
Yeah, so I ended up completing 2 masters and a doctorate degree.
48:17
Yeah, and. Cool.
48:21
What happened is that when they took the started taking the
48:24
college out, I was so upset that I had decided to go to the
48:27
library and read everything that I can read to help me to be able
48:31
to put myself through college because I didn't have a lot of
48:34
money. But I know I wanted to finish
48:35
and my grandmother had always wanted me to finish college.
48:39
And since I felt like I pointed out my biggest OK, I want to go
48:47
ahead and I'm going to learn everything that I can.
48:50
And I learned how to develop a program through working with
48:54
different colleges from inside and at the education department
48:59
inside the prison involved. And I put myself through school.
49:03
And after I did that, I decided to open the same door for other
49:06
individuals who didn't know how to complete and they wanted to
49:10
do something better with that. And I never thought for like the
49:13
next 10 years, I'll be running a college program single handedly,
49:18
a Dean, a academic advisor and everything else for all of the
49:22
guys in there and the administration, they were so
49:26
astounded. And they were like, how did you
49:28
learn how to do this? How did you do this?
49:30
You, you, you incorporated the program hands down.
49:33
You didn't access for funding. Only thing you asked us to do is
49:36
just Proctor the exams. And I was trying to explain to
49:39
them how I did it, but it was adding to my, I didn't know at
49:43
the time it was adding to My Portfolio and to my resume for
49:47
the future. Because you don't.
49:50
And yeah, everything is self. Well, not everything because you
49:53
get some good guys in there that are not selfish.
49:55
But for the most part, the criminals are selfish.
49:58
It's like, give me and I'm not giving anything back.
50:03
My thing was that if I'm going to die in here, I'm going to
50:05
leave a legacy behind so that the youth, when they follow,
50:08
they'll have something, a blue follow.
50:10
That was my thing, and I was determined to do that.
50:14
I didn't think that I was actually pushing the door open
50:17
to be released, you know, by doing so much and trying to
50:21
educate so many. But what I did is I just took
50:25
the same paradigm that I have for myself and I incorporated it
50:30
for all of the other individuals who want to do something better.
50:33
I rewarded them to give me a classroom.
50:36
I took the classroom and in that classroom I was teaching classes
50:39
at night. And the program that I had was
50:43
not merciful at all. It was a simple program.
50:47
The college was like, OK, you're going to get the textbook on
50:50
your own. You're going to study the
50:52
textbook and then we'll answer the education department to be
50:56
proctored, it has to be proctored.
50:57
And then you send it back to us as you get the credit.
51:00
And if you don't, you fail. So earn like 10 books after
51:05
textbooks. You know, there was no study
51:07
lab. There were no professors that I
51:09
I could rely because I didn't have money for that.
51:12
I had to sit in that step. Well, all of this distraction
51:16
going on because I got guys on the gallery, they're blasting
51:19
music and boom, boom, boom, boom, and all of this stuff
51:24
yelling at each other and I had to get earplugs for the men.
51:28
And because no one was on the same wavelength that I was in
51:31
regards to education for the most part, just during time,
51:35
This is our lives, this is what it is.
51:37
And that's it. You know, So it was, it was
51:40
hard, it was painstaking to have to learn textbooks at the
51:44
textbook. And, you know, you had nobody to
51:47
rely on to clarify if you're making the right conclusion or
51:50
the wrong conclusions or is your comprehension law or are you
51:53
lacking interpretation? You know what I mean?
51:55
But I did it and I went all the way up and I said, hey, well, if
52:00
I got this master's degree, why not go for a second?
52:03
You want to, you know, go for a one and you won't, you won't
52:07
ever be able to go for a doctorate.
52:09
Just go for a second one. And so I enrolled again and
52:12
again step out on faith. And I'm a firm believer that
52:17
once you step out in faith and you will it and you on it and
52:21
you don't let nothing take you off your path, you will bring it
52:24
into fruition because that's where the money was going to
52:28
come from. I just enrolled in school and I
52:31
was determined to win. And I had master's degrees.
52:36
And then I said, you want a doctor.
52:42
And I just couldn't figure out how I would do a doctorate
52:46
without a computer, without an instructor.
52:51
I don't know, but I'm I know it was all gone and, and, but I
52:56
pulled it off. I had got one instructor that
52:58
was really determined to help me succeed and I had one relative
53:05
that was willing to work with me and go all out.
53:08
So that's how I actually got most of my work done.
53:11
But when it came to the writing and the reading, nobody can do
53:14
that. Only you can do that for you.
53:17
And basically how I pulled it off Lottery.
53:21
A lot of writing I wouldn't wish a doctorate on at my worst
53:24
enemy, man, I'm going to tell you.
53:27
I heard about that, yeah. While having this doctorate
53:32
degree, you know, so I ended up getting a doctorate in
53:34
educational leadership. I got a master's degree in arts
53:38
and a master's degree in science.
53:41
And currently I'm actually working on 1/3 master's degree,
53:44
which I'll be done with the next year because I had to go back
53:47
for a certain type of licensure in, in regards to my career.
53:51
But along the way I carried people and just opened up that
53:55
program and got a lot of the thugs out of the yard and got.
54:00
The. Other than wanting to act crazy
54:04
and always saying thank you so much, man, You just so you know,
54:10
and and I'm humble. I never thought I would.
54:14
Yeah. And that breeze actually
54:17
materialized. So let me ask you this So so
54:20
with tell the people how once you got out, so you did the 3031
54:27
once you got out, because some people think once you in prison,
54:31
that's it. Because once they once they say
54:34
you're ex-con, they can once they define you, they can
54:38
confine you to this little space.
54:41
Explain to the people how once you get got out after 30 years
54:45
of being in prison, what that degree where, where you taught
54:50
at you know, and how it helped you once you got out.
54:55
Well, your all your degrees, you know, together collectively.
55:00
So one of the programs that I ended up being one of the
55:04
leaders and president of what's called Pack project or
55:08
calculated inside. And what I did is I ended up
55:13
formulating, working with different people on the outside.
55:17
And one of those entities they, they so founded by my journey
55:25
that they had latched on. They latched on to a point where
55:33
actually when I exited the prison, they had helped me to
55:36
get a, a, a job and Yale University as a professor.
55:41
And that's just there for a short stint.
55:46
And then I left that state and then I came on to another state.
55:51
But what it is is, and, and it is accurate too.
55:55
Shaw It's, it's, it's, it's definitely a force that does not
56:01
give those individuals a chance if they have something on their
56:05
records. I, I, I've seen it, I felt I'd
56:10
run up against it. But there's also something else
56:14
there that if you come equipped and you come right, sometimes
56:18
you can't be denied, you know, and then they're doors for you
56:22
again, That's the choice. You can have the choice to stay
56:25
in and be ignorant and do the crazy stuff, which won't pay off
56:29
at any time in your life, basically.
56:32
And or you can make the choice to say I'm ready.
56:35
I got a plan. I got to make a blueprint.
56:37
I got to make sure that I'm preparing to get out, to be the
56:39
father that I should be, to be the son that I should be the
56:42
brother or uncle that, you know, you have a choice.
56:45
But depending on the way that you attack it and you go about
56:48
it, that's what's going to determine your success or
56:50
failure. For the most part.
56:53
Even when I'm speaking to guys in prisons or that on parole or
56:57
probation now, always tell them if you don't plan, you plan to
57:00
fail and somebody has, you know, don't get it twisted, You know,
57:07
on these beds, you know, somebody got to help keep these
57:10
lights on. And if you keep playing, I'm a
57:13
willing player on the stage of decadence, then you are it tag,
57:17
you're the commodity. So you decided break the law and
57:21
keep playing games or you want to get your life together
57:24
because if not, you know, you can be accommodated and you can
57:27
sit up in there for the rest, you know, And I always like to,
57:30
when I speak to them, I like to speak where I can cut across the
57:34
nonsense because what I do know, and a lot of them always tell me
57:37
that they love it. They love it soft talk you know
57:42
it's so gentle and you know you don't have to and I'm like come
57:45
on let's not play these games. Are you worried about your kids
57:49
now if you were so worried about them, what you doing in here for
57:51
the third time you know you know I mean because y'all playing the
57:56
game and I did manipulation 101-201-3014 O1 So I'm the
58:00
master. Don't play no games with me.
58:03
Answer my questions, you know, and when I finished speaking,
58:08
they cried like that little boy that I was because they know
58:12
that they caught up and so that they have something going on in
58:16
their head that's not right and they're not willing to give they
58:19
all to get out and only thing they cried and they said, Yo,
58:23
I'm just grateful to even just being your presence and to hear
58:26
you speak because nobody ever spoke to me like that.
58:29
And I'm talking about there's all of them.
58:33
They they don't want to hear nothing, you know, but they're
58:35
like hunting you for six months. I know something different will
58:39
happen in my life, you know, and sometimes that's what they need.
58:42
You know, don't come in here and tell me that you want to be, oh,
58:47
mom, my mom, she's sick. And I would you worry about mom
58:50
when you were sticking up that grocery?
58:52
Yeah, Yep. Dad's starting to not be able to
58:56
walk no more when you were a pistol whipping that dude in the
58:58
movie theater. Come on, let's not play these
59:01
games. No right is right, wrong is
59:03
wrong. Crime is crime.
59:04
What are you going to do? How can you fix it up and be
59:07
better? That's what I'm here to tell
59:09
you, You know, So thankfully, I made the choice to do something
59:13
different and do something better and easy because
59:16
sometimes, honestly, I have to pinch myself.
59:18
I was sitting there and as a professor, and yeah, I was
59:21
sitting there like, am I really here?
59:25
Exactly right, right. Well, 'cause I got all of these
59:29
suits in front of me, they got Yacht Club hats on.
59:32
And where I come from, if you got a coat, you lucky they got
59:36
Yacht Club hats on. And I'm like, what the heck?
59:39
And but the way that I brought it, because the experience
59:45
Trump's the academia inside of the textbook and a lot of
59:49
situations, you know, and I know a lot of professors wouldn't
59:52
agree with me on that because they haven't lived what I lived.
59:55
But when I spoke to the student and told them, hey, close the
1:00:00
book for a minute, let me take you to the hood.
1:00:03
Why I got to tell my friend about this class.
1:00:06
He got to take this class because nobody and I'm about The
1:00:11
Dirty corruption. How different people empower it
1:00:15
can put people as drug dealers on the street and act like they
1:00:18
upholding the nobody wanted to talk about that.
1:00:21
Nobody talks about it, you know, and just to have that particular
1:00:26
opportunity to let them know this is what criminal justice
1:00:29
is. This is how we can correct it.
1:00:31
This is your obligation because some of you might be the future
1:00:34
vice president, present, attorney general, defense
1:00:38
attorney, corporate attorney, whatever.
1:00:41
Don't forget this moment 'cause this is a learning curve for
1:00:44
you, you know, And then we open up the up books and we get into
1:00:48
the books and. Well, hey, hey, we are like
1:00:53
completely out of time. So no doubt we definitely got to
1:00:57
do a Part 2 on this one because yes, Sir, of the questions that
1:00:59
I that I want to ask, I, I, I, hey, we got to get you back on.
1:01:05
Load the information, brother. Yeah, So we load the information
1:01:08
thing up, man. So man, we really, really,
1:01:11
really appreciate it. I'll be reaching out to you so
1:01:13
we can try to set up another time to come on to finish up
1:01:16
because I got, I got we can talk about this for like hours, but
1:01:20
they gave us an hour. So we're going to have to hop
1:01:23
off. Thanks for joining, man Talk 133
1:01:25
with Shaw and Daryl. And to next time, Chucky.
1:01:29
Thanks for coming on man, to late to next time.
1:01:32
God bless and we will catch up the next time.
1:01:36
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