Latest / Under Pressure: Compressor Talk / Pioneering the Barnett Shell: A Legacy of Innovation

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Pioneering the Barnett Shell: A Legacy of Innovation · Under Pressure: Compressor Talk

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: This is Under Pressure, Compressor Talk by Midwest Compressor.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Strategies, systems, and stories from the compressor world.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: With your host, David Abshire.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: And now, on to the show.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Good afternoon.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: This is David Abshire on the Under Pressure podcast with Midwest Compressor.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: And today we have Clay O'Neill.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Clay, thank you for joining us this Friday afternoon.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: My pleasure.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Clay, can you start by walking us through how you first got into the oil and gas industry?
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it was kind of a funny thing.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: My dad was a ranch manager on a ranch around Whitney, Texas, and uh the guy who owned the ranch happened to be CEO president of Pennsyl at the time.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I had just finished my freshman year at tech and thought I had a pretty good GPA.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: It was just a little under three, but my parents didn't agree with me, so they decided that I didn't need to go back for my second year.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I managed to get a golf scholarship to Hill Junior College in Hillsborough to pay for my schooling.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: But at the end of that year, uh I had gotten kind of burned out on everything, and I just decided I just wanted to go find something else to do other than schools.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I had applied and thought I had a pretty good chance of getting on the Alaska pipeline when they were building it back in 77.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Bill Litke is the guy who owned the ranch, one of the Lidke brothers.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: I guess at some point he and Dad had a conversation.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: Dad brought up what I was going to do, and he said, Well, he doesn't need to go up there.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'll just work something out and we'll uh he set it up where I could go to work offshore.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: So uh that's what I did.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: I laid out for a year uh doing that.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um ended up going back to school at tech and working summers offshore.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: And after about the second summer of doing that, I was I'd I had changed majors.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: I I'd originally started out pre-law and changed majors, and then after my second summer working, it finally dawned on me why don't you try to do something in the petroleum business that you're out here doing what you're doing?
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: So uh I switched over to petroleum engineering and and finally got out of tech in in uh in 85.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: I started 75, I was on the decade plan and uh went to work uh for Pogo Producing uh little company down to Houston.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how have you been in uh business long enough do you remember them?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I remember Pogo.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I do.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: Well uh Bill ended up when when uh Penn's oil and uh split, he took Pogo and so he was running that.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: So that I I was really lucky when I got out of school in '85 because that was when the pen bank went bust and just really bad downturn.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: But I got on with Pogo and was with them for 16 years.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh left them, went to work for Mitchell Energy, who were busy in the Barnett shell at that time, but it was all vertical.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: So it really wasn't a a big deal, but it was a big, you know, big plate for them.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: Devin came in and bought Mitchell about three weeks after I went to work for Mitchell, after being assured that Mitchell was not on the market to anybody.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: So uh anyway, ended up moving up to Oklahoma City uh to the Devin headquarters, and after uh they had had Mitchell for about a year, uh it kind of started dawning on everybody uh that 1% rate of rate of return that they had on the barnett was not what they were hoping for.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh they put a little think tank together.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I was invited to be on it to try and figure out what what can we do to get better production out of out of the barnett.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: And after throwing all kinds of ideas around, we figured out we've got to go horizontal.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's about the only thing we can do that we haven't already tried.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: So myself and another engineer named Jeff Roberts, we drilled the first six Barnett shell horizontal wells.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: Nice.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: Which, when I think about it, is kind of a big deal because everything that's going on today probably would have started at some point, but it it started at that point with with Jeff and I.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: That that's something you know you think about every once in a while, you know, it started something pretty big here.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, we drilled the first six, the completions on them were different because we really didn't know what we wanted to do for sure, but finally ended up with the plug and perf method is kind of the tried and true way to go.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's what people are uh they've I know they've tried all kinds of different ways with packers and whatever, but I think a lot of people are are going back and decided that the the plug and perf is is really the best way to go on horizontal completions.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: So uh anyway, did that.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: I stayed with Devin for I think uh about another year, went to work for uh three other companies after that that were also in the barnet, and you know, we're looking for people that could get them in and show them how to do it and whatever.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um and uh finally ended up with a uh my last 16 years, I ended up with a little company here in Fort Worth, Finley Resources, and um did a lot of things with them.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh drilled a horizontal well up in the Wyoming uh in the teapot formation, which was kind of important at that time because teapot that that uh that we owned was produced pretty heavily, so it was under pressure.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: So we basically proved you can drill a uh a horizontal well and under pressured sandstone and actually make a pretty good well.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: The other thing I was taken care of, uh well, I actually took care of everything for them, everywhere they had Oklahoma, Texas.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: Up in Utah, we bought some properties from Delta back in 2008.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: Uh when we got those properties, the production there was about 80 barrels a day in the Uinta basin.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: And before I retired, we'd we had, and this was drilling vertical, what we call vertical horizontal wells.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: They were S-shaped with stack pays.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: So we and we would do six, eight fracks in each completion.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: So got production up to 10,000 barrels a day.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: Nice.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: And for one day, and it and then it started dropping off.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: But but it's it's hung into seven, eight thousand barrel a day range on the on the verticals.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: Now they also one good thing about uh what we were able to do with getting production up that high is that that uh we got big enough or we're making enough money that we could get kind of we went after Crescent Point and bought their UN to basin uh production for about six hundred and fifty million dollars, which at the time I was pretty impressed with that.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: That was that was really something being a part of you know, being able to do something like that.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: So anyway, that that part was all horizontal drilling.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: CH4 is another company in Fort Worth that went in partners with us on it.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think the three years since I've been retired, they've kind of taken over everything up there.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: And uh if anybody's listening that's got some deep pockets, crescent point stuff is up for sale if anybody's interested.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: So you've described yourself today, Clay, as a true, you know, cradle to grave operation that's near.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: What does that actually mean in practice from your perspective?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well, when it it's just uh from the time the geologist has a little idea in his head that he wants to drill a well somewhere, whether it's onshore or offshore, you know, he he has to do his mapping and get with the land people to see, you know, what's available, where we could put it, and I would be involved with that.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: And when they finally made the decision where they wanted to put it, then I would go out in the field and meet with the surveyors, and you know, we would walk around and and and see where it staked out, make sure that it was a doable location onshore.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, offshore it's pretty much a doable location.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: You just had to put your buoys where you where you want the well to be.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, we would make sure everything was was good to go and meet with the landowners, try and establish uh relationship with them.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then once all that was done and was uh picked out, build a location, I would take care of bidding out all the work, all the equipment.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: We get the drilling rig in.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I designed the well.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I actually went out and sat on it and in uh you know, the whole time we were drilling it, did the completion, planning, follow through.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: If we made a well and it went on production, then I would look after the production and take care of you know communication with the gaugers and and uh uh people involved with that.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: If it was not a good well, we had to plug it, uh, which happened a lot back in old days.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: It didn't happen a whole lot now, but uh I would, you know, I would take care of plugging the well, make sure everything was done to regulation on it.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: And and again, dealing with the landowner to make sure everything was done the way they wanted as far as the surface conditions and things like that.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's cradled grave.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: You get it from birth to death.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: So how is the all-around operations role different from how engineering roles are structured today?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think most companies like to uh to hire people that specialize.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: You'll you'll have somebody that's that's uh the most of them, I guess these days just pretty much let let the land people deal with the land issues.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: Drilling people, I'm not sure where they uh actually would take over, but that that's all they would take care of is just the drilling.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: And when you you know set casing, if you make a well, then immediately you turn it over to your completion people, completion engineer, and he takes it from there, and then uh you know they they've got bigger companies have people specialize at the in the PA part of it.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's all compartmentalized and and uh which I never really liked that because to me it was it was if you got something, you know, I wanted it all the way through.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_02: That way, you know, I had control over it and and uh knew what was going on.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas today you get to a certain point, you just shift it over to somebody else and you get on to whatever else is down the road.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, absolutely.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: I I agree a hundred percent for sure.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody has their little specialized niche anymore that they do, and then once it gets to that point, they're like it goes to the next guy.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: And and and you know, kind of the problem I always had with that is that if you're drilling a well and you're responsible for the completion of it, then you're gonna make sure everything you do in the drilling is is going to lead to you know good success on the completion end of things.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna make sure you get the best cement job, uh, you don't skip steps on that.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, no unknowns.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: Today you you can tell them how you want it, but how it actually is when you get it may be two different things.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly right.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: You got a whole new set of problems you got to take care of.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, absolutely.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, Clay, what was it like drilling some of the first hor horizontal wells uh, you know, when no one really knew the playbook yet in the barnett shell?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you guys kind of led the way.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm sure it was pretty exciting, you know, had a little bit of adventure to it as well, and uh and some big risk, right?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of tension.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of lot of tension because like I said, they they did not like that 1% rate of return.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: And if they couldn't uh uh or if we couldn't come up some way to make that better, uh there's probably gonna be a lot of us be looking for jobs somewhere else because they just they weren't gonna continue throwing good money after bad.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: But it it was uh luckily with the barn net, it's the formations that you drill are are uh hard enough that once you get the hole drilled, it's almost like you've already got casing set.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: So we on the first uh I think two or three wells, uh we went ahead and set intermediate casing, and then uh after talking to uh uh our drilling manager, finally came to the realization you don't need intermediate.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: You can just set surface and then just drill your hole, you know, up to T D and uh you know, just run your production casing and you're you're good to go.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: The first wells that we completed um did them all with cement packers.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: So we had basically open hole completion below the packer, which would uh was set just above uh where the curve started, you know, to get into the barnett.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: So starting off that way, completions weren't that good.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: We thought the completions were great because compared to the vertical wells, you know, they they were fantastic.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: But compared to what we ended up getting after we started running casing and cementing it in place where you could do the multiple, many multiple fracks up along the well board, so just nine-day difference.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, again, you're it was just you know, do and learn.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: And it developed pretty fast.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you're also involved in the early plug and perf completion work.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Why was that work such a turning point for you?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: Because you could uh you could do the multiple fracks.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: And we we did the first ones with uh coil tubing, and that evolved to doing them all with E-line, electric line.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: But you could you could individually treat you know certain parts of the weld bore, work your way back up it uh where you're just adding each zone.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas if you if you didn't do that, you could you know you could run in and and shoot holes, but if you didn't have a way to isolate what you had shot, well that's pretty much it.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: You you just perforated and fracked all that you could.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: So we generally started out doing about four fracks over about a uh 1,500 foot lateral.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'm sure anybody listening to this that's drilling horizontal w wells today is laughing at the 1500 feet, but we thought that was really stretching it, you know, pushing the balloon.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, you do about four uh fracks in that fifteen hundred foot length.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: Well, today if if you were doing one, you could you'd probably do about twelve to fifteen fracks in that fifteen hundred foot lateral.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: So that evolved pretty quick to get him out of the, you know, getting to the most frags that you could do on it.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: So it it was it evolved and turned over pretty pretty fast.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: In two or three years, it was you'd really ch saw a lot of changes in how things were done.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: So later in your career, you led major production growth projects.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: What a what accomplishments are you most proud of?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think I think doing the first horizontal, if you're talking about everything, or are you just talking about production?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I would say probably I would say probably everything.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, I would say everything.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: Being being in the barnet shell, seeing that get developed to become what it has become and how it has led to everything else in the oil field today, uh worldwide, is is actually when you think about it, it's kind of breathtaking.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: And the other one was was taking that uh uh the production up in Utah uh to the levels that we did.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we we really jumped on that pretty hard.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: We could tell that that was going to be that had the potential to be a really, really good area.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: And uh in fact, I understand that that uh Finley is getting ready to start drilling the horizontal wells in the original area where we were drilling those vertical wells, which is going to be kind of exciting to see how those turn out because we're never really sure if we had enough pressure to make that work, but I understand that they have drilled one or two or uh some people offsetting us have drilled a couple of them and they have worked pretty well.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: So nice.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: Pretty excited to see how that works out.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm retired, but I still keep in touch with everybody.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, of course.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: And what area uh what basin is that gonna be in?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Is it gonna be up north in the Utah area?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and you went to basin up in the uh Vernal Roosevelt area.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that that field, everybody that I know has been up there, they've had great success, uh, of course.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard a lot of good stories about you know production up there, so it's definitely made some really good wells.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: I th I think the horizontal wells, uh, you know, thousand, two thousand barrels a day is pretty average.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a really good oil.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh a lot of people not really familiar with it, but it's it's it's a waxy oil.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's about 30, 30, 30, 35 percent wax, uh, which kind of like a heavy oil, you know.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: If the temperatures you have to heat all your tanks that you produce into uh you know, at 100 degrees you can kick it like a football.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: I got you.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, but above a hundred degrees, it's liquid and it's uh it's just a really good oil.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: The refiners up there in in uh Salt Lake City really, really like it.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we've uh uh before I retired, we started railing oil from down there to the Gulf Coast to a couple refineries down there.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: They really like it.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um so anyway, it uh I'm not sure what the production is up there now.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: I th I think it's it's somewhere between 20 and 25,000 barrels a day for Finley's stuff.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: Nice.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: Two or three other producers up there are doing probably pretty close to that too.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: So what's one of the major misconceptions people outside the oil and gas industry have about the oil and gas?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: That we're dirty and we don't care.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: Which, if you think about it, we have to make money to stay in business.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: You can't make money if you're doing stupid things or you're not paying attention to taking care of things so you don't get sued or you don't have to pay for mistakes.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: So and they think we're greedy, which they're right, we are.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody's greedy, every industry is greedy, they want to make money.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: But the oil business being greedy at the same time makes us safe because we don't want to throw money away that we don't have to.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: So we're not gonna ignore landowner issues, we're not gonna create issues because we're too lazy to do it the right way.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not saying that every company is that way, but every company I ever worked for and myself, I know for me, would never do anything that's gonna cost something that we don't want to pay for.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, to to keep from doing that, you've got to follow regulations, you've got to follow rules, and you got to do things the right way.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, yeah.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: Just have a misconception.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: We're just out there to all we want to do is tear up somebody's property and uh, you know, leave it in the worst possible shape and and uh just you know, leave landowners crying.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: I I've I've developed some of the best friendships in my life, landowners that I've dealt with.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, yeah, I completely agree.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: I I think people from the outside that look in, you know, they think we're there to tear things up and harm the environment and be, you know, the movies that they've seen it, you know, come out of Hollywood that gives this misperception of oil and gas and what we're trying to do.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: And really, you know, the evolution of technology over the last 20 years that I've been in the business and just seeing, you know, how we operate today and how much cleaner we operate, how much more efficient.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, the regulations have gotten more stringent on us in oil and gas.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: And we just do a great job in the United States.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think about other countries that I've got to see how they operate and do different things and be aware, you know, we have all these regulations here in the United States, and you go to these other third world countries.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, there's no regulations, you know, they're just they're doing whatever they want and and operating however they want.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, there's all these other things that fall into play, especially outside the United States.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: But here in the U.S., we we do a great job of producing oil and gas, and it's something to be proud of.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm super proud to be in the industry, and anytime I get an opportunity to shine a positive light uh about what we do and explain it, especially to the uneducated, right?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: The the folks that don't know where energy comes from, where their electricity comes from for that matter.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, most of the electricity that's produced comes from, you know, natural gas.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: When you start trying to explain that to folks, it's hard to, you know, get them to understand that, of course.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there there are always uh it it's it's a uh a a human-driven industry.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: So there's always gonna be some mistakes made.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: So people are gonna screw up.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I mean the the biggest one here lately was the BP fiasco.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I I don't know if you've read much on that or or looked into it much, but uh I have and I and I was pretty amazed at some of the things that that that uh it wasn't a a BP generated thing, it was the people they had out there that just chose to ignore some things that that that you learned in basic wealth control school that allowed that to happen, which just kind of blew my mind.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: But but you know, that's the problem with dealing with these kind of things.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: If you do make a mistake, boy, it can really multiply and you can really really end up with a with a big problem.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: But luckily, that happens very few and far between.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: But unfortunately, with the news people and everything today, something does happen.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: It gets spectacular pretty quick.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're exactly right.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: So you you mentioned concerns about young engineers and in the industry today.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think that they misunderstand about succeeding in the oil and gas business?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I have a list of things written down here.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think most of them come out with uh entitlement attitude.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I've I've done my work, I've got my degree, so I'm coming out of school.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: I deserve an office, I deserve a title, I deserve a secretary, and I deserve a lot of money.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: And had done nothing to earn that.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: The best advice I got when I got out, I finally got out of school and went to work was uh one of my uncles, my dad's youngest brother, got me a side said, look, I'm just gonna tell you this one thing, and you remember this, and things should be okay, but you right now are lower than whale poop on the bottom of the ocean.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's what you are until you prove that you're not.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: And most of these kids coming out today don't want to put the time in, they don't want to put the work in, they don't want to put the sweat in to do that.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the kids that want that would that will work during the summers and and not just trying to get office jobs during the summer, but actually get out in the field where you have to beat on something with a hammer, or you got to dig some dirt dirt with a uh uh a shovel, get an understanding of what what it is like at the lower levels and what what real work is.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because when they get later on, when they do get in those offices and they're looking after these people, it really helps if you've been there and done some of that so you got an understanding of what those people are going through when you tell them this is what I need you to do.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I think that empathy factor really really matters a lot.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't think I don't think that's I don't think that's a big thing in front of them uh these days.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but what I what I would tell them uh is is develop the best work ethic that you can starting out.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's what people are going to notice.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: Make sure your word means something and and and that you earn respect from people.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you don't expect it, you earn it.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: But the biggest thing is just make sure that your word means something.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: If you tell a service guy, you know, this is what we're going to do, this is how we want it done, this is what I expect from you, you stick with your end and And make sure they stick with theirs and that that makes things work out.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: Always be respectful to people no matter what level they are, because they can always be of some assistance to you and you're not better than them just because they're having to dig the ditches for you.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that's that's something I've noticed uh you know the last three years before I retired that it just I don't know, they just just uh seem to think they're up uh uh up in the clouds and they don't have to worry about you know everything that's going on below them.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, listen to other opinions.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, sometimes other people are smarter than you.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I found that out a lot in my career.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it it uh you know they may not it may not be something different from what you're thinking, but it might be something that's gonna add to what you're thinking, you know, to make everything better.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the other thing I would stress is is that when you if when you get into the job you're drilling or doing completion or production, always watch your costs.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: Keep up with that.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: Management will respect that probably more than anything else, that that you're watching your costs.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: You're not underspending just to underspend, but you're watching what you spend to make sure it is the right amount that you need to spend.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: And that that will stick with stick with people.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess the last thing would be, you know, be serious about your job.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: You're you're getting paid a pretty good salary uh if you're in the oil business, but you know, you're got a pretty pretty important job.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: But at the same time, keep your sense of humor.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's not all life and death, you know, and it's okay to laugh at things every once in a while, you know.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: So it's I had a great time working in the oil business.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's it's hard not to be, or not to have a good time.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: Things have changed a lot in the last ten years, but um a lot of good people out there.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: If you just treat them right, they treat you right, it's not a bad business.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I completely agree a hundred percent, Clay, with everything you said.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, the work ethic is so important anymore.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, I've got kids in college, of course, and when they come out, you know, I've definitely explained to them, you know, the entitlement stuff that we see uh with some of the younger generation coming out, like somebody owes them something, and I always like to show my kids a blank piece of paper I hold up and I say, this is what everybody owes you, and it's nothing.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, that's that's where you start.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I definitely appreciate your response to you know, treat everybody the same no matter who it is.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something that I definitely take to heart very much being a leader, you know, I definitely make sure that I recognize uh from the lowest to the highest and I treat them all the same.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something too that says about your character, of course, Clay, and of course about your success in in the business, right?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, just how you treat people says so much about the person that's in the role and whatever it is, whether they're the janitor or the head of the company, it don't matter, right?
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: What what what goes around comes around usually.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: And when I was uh looking after the Utah stuff, again, I was looking after everything up there.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I would try to get up to uh Utah uh at least once once a month and once once every other month uh just to have a meeting with all the gaugers, all the field people, and made a point, you know, that ask me anything you want.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: We're here, you ask a question, we'll discuss if I can tell you about it, I will.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: If I can't, I'll tell you I can't.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'll try to tell you why I can't, but uh nothing's off the table.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: Let's let's talk about you get to know the people that that are working for you a whole lot better that way.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, Clay, from your experiences, what are the biggest differences between offshore and onshore operations, if you could explain that for some of our listeners today that maybe are not familiar with the offshore stuff compared to the onshore?
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that uh big you know, the first thing is uh the equipment's so much bigger.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: You're dealing with the jack ups and the semi-submersibles and submersibles and way out in deeper water.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: But the the the biggest thing is understanding logistics, timing on things.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: Because you most of your big equipment's gonna be coming out by boat, you know, depends on how far offshore you are, how many miles, and how long it's gonna take that boat to get out there.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: You're doing work on the well and you've got to time things where you know you don't get something out there, and all of a sudden it's gonna be sitting there for four or five days, and you're paying standby charges or whatever for the equipment for the people and and uh you know you you're flying people out by helicopter, so you've got to time all of that to get them out there at the right time.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh if you get casing or whatever, it's the same thing as come out there by boat, uh cement, you know, all that stuff.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's got you've got to s be able to sit down and write out everything that you're doing and time everything.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: Keep your fingers crossed that everything works out right because it's always gonna get screwed up.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna have bad weather or something's gonna happen with the well or whatever.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: But logistics is the biggest thing.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's where you you're gonna save or spend the biggest majority of your money because you you either planned it outright, things went your way, or it didn't, and boy, you got a big fiasco and you got the office downtown Houston breathing down your neck.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: And that's exactly uncomfortable.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I think that's that's the biggest thing.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: The other thing I told Josh, just kind of a runny joke when when we were out there was uh you know, if you're working on sh on shore, um something bad happens, you know, you've got that 40 acre choke out there, you good pair of tennis shoes, and you're you're out of danger, but working offshore, you're just you're sitting on that egg.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: And if it goes, you're you're kind of botched in.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a lot of places to run.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, Clay, what are the the daily challenges that you've seen in your career that operators and service companies usually wrestle with?
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Cost.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: Just you know, you you uh we uh operators want everything as as as cheap as we can get it.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: The service company wants to charge as much as they can, and it's it's just an ongoing battle between them.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: It it it and it all depends on how you handle it.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: Whenever we had problems when I when I was starting out, and actually I guess within uh up up to the last three years, uh you can generally work things out.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I mean you get a bid, you know what you're supposed to pay for things, and if something happens, uh you know, screws things up, you gotta figure out whose fault it was and whatever, but you can generally come to an agreement, okay, we'll we'll pay this, and and service companies say, okay, we're we're all right with that or whatever.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um I know I noticed over the last three years with the younger people coming out into the service companies, you didn't see that.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: It it was just, you know, this is what you're supposed to pay us.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't matter that our people screwed up or, you know, our equipment messed up or anything.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: This is this is the invoice, this is what you owe us.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: And uh so that that took some getting used to.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: It took a lot of yelling.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: And and and that that's one reason why I decided it was time to retire.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: I got just just wasn't the same anymore.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: Now you feel like you're a bad guy if you're really yanking on somebody that that you think's overcharge you for something.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's somebody's got to do it.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I I again it's it's it's it goes back to your word.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it's you know, this this is what you said you would do, and and if we had problems, we could work things out.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're not gonna do that, then um you know, why why do the business?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, yep, exactly.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, Clay, if you could wave a magic wand and fix one thing about the industry, what would it be today?
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, Josh asked me that earlier, and I really couldn't come up with anything too good, but I thought about it, and and I think what it would be was would be that we would have a better pipeline grid than we've got now.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: We'd have more pipelines available to get some of this gas that's being flared to sell and more pipelines available to move oil.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: That would serve two purposes.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: One, it would take some of the cost off the price of oil for the operators, and two, it would take a lot of traffic off of roads out in uh New Mexico and in uh West Texas without having all those trucks hauling oil.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: But to me, I I think just having the the pipeline grid that that that's needed would be a big, big help.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: I completely agree.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, lots of times we get to hear about you know different areas, of course, where oil goes from one shell all the way to another one and then all the way back to heat homes, and we hear all these different scenarios.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, obviously we know what that does to the cost, right?
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: It just raises the costs because we're having to use horsepower to move that oil and gas uh all around the United States in these different basins.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I completely agree with you know being able to have better infrastructure and newer pipelines and things like that to get it there more efficiently so we can drive the cost down, but of course too to make it more efficient for everybody that's you know involved in the business.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's just hard of permits and and you know, a lot of landowners they they watch the news and and their their ideas that we're just gonna go out there and tear up their their uh their property and and uh that you know it's dangerous.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh number of pipeline it's and that's you know, since all the business has been going or virtually non-existent, but you know, one one thing happens and it's uh again, it's it's in the news and they make it sound as bad as they can.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: So uh Yeah, I d I just wish it was easier to do that.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: I w I wish also there was uh permitting to get refineries in place wasn't as as onerous as it is.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, it's uh that's that that's probably one of the biggest reasons why uh gas prices are so high, we just are so high we just don't have enough refineries to you know to take all the oil that we have.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: No, you you're exactly right.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, lots of the permitting processes, of course, uh, you know, have slowed down those kinds of projects, you know, from the oil refineries, of course, the LNG, you know, offshore or onshore projects that's been delayed, you know, due to permitting.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: So anything, you know, of course, from that side that's slowed down progress in our industry, uh, you know, definitely hurts all of us where, you know, if we can open up the spigot and you know, be able to sell, of course, natural gas overseas like we've started to, and being able to get into new markets, and of course, too, being able to do the same thing with oil, it just it just helps the company or the country overall, of course, to be more economical.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: And all that money comes back into the U.S.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's you know it's it's spread out to everybody.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I always like to, you know, talk about that because that's one thing that when you know people think about oil and gas, uh, they don't think about all the tax dollars that go to the school systems, to the police officers, to the fire departments, uh, to the roads, uh, you know, all these all these big huge taxes that get put on oil and gas get spread out and of course employ tons and tons of people throughout the United States to be able to have a job.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it gets overlooked.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so one of the one of the things I heard early on in my career is is if you have the opportunity to speak positively about the oil and gas industry, you know, please do in whatever kind of setting it is because everybody has a different misconception of what we actually do and how we operate.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I definitely, definitely appreciate uh all your hard work in the business.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm definitely thankful that you were able to come on this afternoon and visit with us.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, too, it sounds like you had a pretty amazing career.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I hope one day I'm able to look back and and talk about all the cool things like you was able to today and you know talk about some of the success stories as well.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: And the stories I could tell you.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think that's one of the coolest things uh is being able to get to visit with folks like yourself that's been in the industry and had a great career and can speak about it.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so with that being said, Clay, I definitely thank you today for coming on.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh definitely appreciate your time this afternoon.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things I like to do, of course, for any guest that comes on the podcast, we like to ship out a box uh Midwest compressor swag in it.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: So you'll get some cool Midwest compressor hats and stuff and just some full cool things.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Whenever you get a chance, if you can just shoot me an email, Clay, with your mailing address, I'll give it to the girls and they'll get it shipped out.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then also uh my guys will reach out before the podcast is published and let you know when it's gonna come out so you can keep an eye out for it.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: So when it goes live and gets published on LinkedIn and different places and platforms, you'll be able to go in there and listen and share with your friends.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: So definitely appreciate you coming on today, Clay, and you have a great rest of your weekend.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely, definitely my pleasure to be able to visit with you today.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: But I appreciate it.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: Really, really enjoyed it.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: Uh if you want to do this again sometime, just let me know.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like I said, I got a lot of good stories.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, well, I'm definitely going to keep that in mind because uh I'm always looking for good stories, especially in our business, because lots of times that's one of the things that you know really really gives me good good ways to you know give perspective on things to do and not to do in our industry, is by the folks that have these great stories and great successes, too, because that's one thing we don't share enough is our successes, especially in our business.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: So can I uh say one thing?
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: Getting back to you know, never knowing who's gonna, you know, amount to something or whatever, you know, depending on where they start out.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you ever ran across a guy named Richard Wright that was working for Pogo when I first started.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: He's he's out in Midland now, but he started out his career with Texaco.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: And when I started with Pogo, he was Pogo's drilling manager.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: And my boss put me with Richard for the first two or three weeks that I was there, and we went over Louisiana everywhere that Pogo had something going on, and Richard's just showing me what's what was what.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: But Richard started out as a galley hand for Texaco, and he worked his way all the way up through drilling manager uh with Texaco to Pogo uh to uh another company in Midland.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: He, to me, is the smartest guy I ever ran across in the oil field.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: He could pick things up from nothing, drilling, completion, production, just brilliant.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: And and he started as a galleyen.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: Nice, nice.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: So and I just had people, it it doesn't matter what you start out, but it's it's what you're willing to learn, what you're willing to do, to learn things, to get things done.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's possible for anybody.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: But Richard's a great guy, just like I said, one of the smartest people I've ever I've ever known.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, don't agree.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: School hard knocks.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, absolutely.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: And those and those are the guys that have the skill set that we're able to teach guys like us when we come in the business and educate us.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I always encourage everybody to listen to the guys that has worked their way up because that skill set and that knowledge, you can't you can't buy that and you can't replace that, right?
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like you can't, you can't, and that's why I've never understood people laying off people when you know times go bad, first thing companies do is lay off people, but you're laying off experience.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then when you have to gear back up and hire people, you're hiring inexperience and you have to go through the learning curve, and it's costing you probably more money than you save by letting those people go.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I definitely appreciate your time today, Clay.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, just when you get a chance, buddy, shoot me your email over and with your address, and we'll get some cool Midwest Compressor swag out to you.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you guys have a great weekend, and thank you so much again for jumping on today.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: I definitely enjoyed it, and I definitely enjoyed all the great stories.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was a pleasure meeting you today.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: I got I got more.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: All right, David.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, buddy.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: Bye-bye, bye-bye.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: This has been another great episode of Under Pressure.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: Compressor Talk by Midwest Compressor with your host, David Abshire.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, keep pumping.