Latest / From the Coach's Mouth / Episode 35: Carol Bruggeman

Transcript

Episode 35: Carol Bruggeman · From the Coach's Mouth

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What do we want our sport to look like in five years, 10
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years? And what do we need to do now to
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make sure that happens? And I think back to, you know,
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whether it's television and the exposure there a lot of the
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decisions made to to line those things up to make sure our game
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is is fun to watch and fun to play.
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So people want to gravitate toward it at.
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The field in your car or on the couch.
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Get your basket from the coach's mouth.
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Welcome to the From the Coach's Mouth podcast with your host Jay
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Bolden and Ken Krause. Hello everyone and welcome to
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the From the Coaches Mouth podcast.
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Jay and I are here today looking at a beautiful day outside and
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looking at some great stuff coming in from over the weekend.
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Jay, did your daughters team play this weekend?
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Yeah, they did Ken. They did it.
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They did a great job. It was a nice tournament.
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It was held, you know, they everybody got a chance to play,
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be a part of it. I think at that 11 U age is
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super important for all of them to keep, you know, rotating kids
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in and out, batting all the kids through the lineup.
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Those are things that are important at that age.
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So everybody feels a part of the game.
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So, yeah, and they did really well.
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And that's the thing like, you know, letting these kids play,
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letting them to show you what they can do.
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You know, the wins and losses really honestly don't matter.
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It's more about the development and the the growth and keeping
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the kids, you know, excited and happy to come back and play.
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I think at this age is the most important thing.
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So yeah, that. Was very Ted Lasso of you.
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Yeah, yeah. True, very true that Ted Lasso
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is great. I mean, we can all learn a
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little bit from the Ted Lasso series.
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So I think that that's, especially as coaches, I think
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that's that's huge. How about you?
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What did you, what did you do this weekend?
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Do you have any any lessons or work with any kids?
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Yeah, I had some lessons yesterday.
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It was a great day for it. It was funny because it started
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out, you know, where I had a hoodie on.
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Kind of took that off as I was going along, and I was just in
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the Raglan shirt. And even by then I was thinking,
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yeah, you know, I'm starting to regret the long pants.
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Probably should have worn shorts and just dealt with it early on.
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But. Yeah, I actually, yeah.
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I went out to Illinois State out there in Bloomington yesterday
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to watch some of my kids throw DePaul played Illinois State.
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So I have a pitcher at Illinois State and I've got 3 at DePaul
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and I wore jeans and I'm like, man, this is a mistake.
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I should have brought a pair of shorts.
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It was hot. And so, yeah, it was, it was
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definitely a warm one yesterday, but I'm so happy for the fall
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weather here. But yeah, me too.
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Enough of us rambling. Why don't you introduce or give
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some information about this amazing guest that we have here.
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I mean, you know, it's not every day you're surrounded by Hall of
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Farmers, but this is this is pretty awesome.
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So let let people know little information about this amazing
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guest we have Ken. I sure will, although a little
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information is probably not an exactly a, a good description
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for what I'm going to do, but I I do think it's safe to say that
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today's guest is directly or at least indirectly had an impact
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on everyone listening to this podcast today.
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The Charter Oak, Iowa native has been a player, coach,
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broadcaster, speaker and author, as well as serving in various
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leadership roles in the National Fast Pitch Coaches Association.
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More on that in a bit. After a very successful playing
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career as an infielder at the University of Iowa, she began
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her coaching journey. There isn't a graduate assistant
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under the legendary GAIL Blevins.
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She then went on to coach under another legend, Carol Hutchins,
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at the University of Michigan before being tapped to launch
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the softball program at the Big 10's Purdue University in
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Indiana. While at Purdue, she led the
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brand new program to 21 wins in its first season and went on to
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average 32 wins per season during her tenure, while also
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assuring that every player who competed all four years
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graduated. From there, our guest went on to
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coach at Louisville where she helped guide the Cardinals to 9
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NCAA Division One regional appearances while setting school
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records twice for total wins. While she was coaching there,
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she became involved with the NFCA as well, serving as Board
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President, Past President, 4th Vice President, and Division One
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representative at various points in her coaching career.
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In 2007, she left coaching ranks to take on a larger role in the
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sport versus Interim Executive Director at the NFCA and then
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becoming its official Executive Director in 2016.
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During that time, she has led the NFCA to an incredible number
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of achievements, growing its rank significantly, expanding
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membership among travel and high school coaches, acquiring the
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popular Mary Nutter softball clinics that were held across
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the country, overseeing the launch of the National Fastpitch
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Coaches College, and expanding the organization's annual
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convention to securing record setting attendance in 2024.
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She also helped the organization successfully weather the
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COVID-19 pandemic in 2020, taking advantage of technology
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to keep things moving forward and better deliver the
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organization's many services to all its members.
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A member of the NFC as Hall of Fame Class of 2023, today she
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serves as the CEO. Ladies and gentlemen, please
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give a warm from the Coach's Mouth podcast.
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Welcome to the amazing Carol Bruegemann.
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Welcome, Carol. Well, thank you very much.
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It is a pleasure to be here and any podcast that starts out
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talking about Ted Lasso, I am all in.
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So I I am, I love Ted Lasso and and I agree with you, Jay, just
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so many lessons and messages there.
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And it was just a lot of fun. So thank you for that warm
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welcome and introduction. Well, we're so happy to have you
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here, Carol. Both Jay and I have talked to
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you in the past and hung out with you a bit and we always
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enjoyed that. So it's great that you're taking
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a little bit of time to chat with us today.
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We know you're very busy. Well, thank you for allowing me
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to join and I just want to say thank thanks to both of you.
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Yes, I have had the pleasure of getting to know you over the
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last several years. And it's just so fun to see that
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as long as you've been in the sport, you're a lot like me.
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As long as you've been in the sport, you still have this
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passion, this joy, this energy around it.
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And anytime I can spend time with with two people like you
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who we really have that passion, that energy, just an exciting
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day. Oh my gosh.
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You know you can't see it if you're just listening to this,
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but we're blushing. Absolutely.
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All right, Carol. So we do want to get started
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with this. So my first question is, how
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does a nice girl from Charter Oak, Iowa end up the Chief
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Executive Officer at the Premier Association for Fast Pitch
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Softball? Wow, we all we all certainly
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have our journeys and they all start somewhere and I feel very
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blessed to have started my journey in in in really small
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town western Iowa. And why I feel so blessed is
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feel like everyone has their roots and their wings throughout
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their journey. And, and that's where I really
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got my roots. Just just a just wonderful
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people in that part of the world.
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As they say in Iowa, there's no strangers, just friends you
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haven't met yet. And I feel like that kind of
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mentality has just stuck with me really my entire career and just
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just learning the values that were instilled at that time in
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my life in that part of the country.
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Just hard work, learning, accountability.
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You earn anything you receive in life and owe a lot of that to my
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parents, of course, but also just the people that I was
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around and growing up. So I also feel blessed to grow
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up in Iowa because at that time, you know, I went to to
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elementary school and high school, elementary school in the
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70s, high school in the 80s. And back then Iowa was really a
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leader. They still are in terms of just
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women's equity, quick examples to to bring that to life.
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My entire high school career, which was in the early 80s to
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mid 80s, I wore metal cleats in high school and it wasn't even a
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big thing because you know, the boys baseball team did, the
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girls softball team did. It wasn't a big deal.
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And when I went to school at the University of Iowa, when I was a
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freshman, I realized very quickly I was the only freshman
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or any freshman from the state of Iowa, but I was the only
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freshman at that particular year from Iowa.
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And everyone, the first couple practices, all my colleagues, my
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teammates as freshmen were just talking about their cleats and
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wearing metal cleats. And oh, this is going to feel so
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awkward and so weird. And they were tripping around
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and oh, we're going to get hurt and all the things.
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And I was like, what is happening here?
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Like, but that was just the philosophy from the state of
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Iowa, from the educational components all the way down to
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athletics components. There was a a huge sense of
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equity. Like what we're going to do for
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one, we're going to do for all. And so the longer I'm on this
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journey, the more I appreciate that back in the days of West
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small town, western Iowa and just growing up in the state of
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Iowa that it was just the way it was.
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You treated people fairly, you treated people equitably.
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And you know, I always felt like I had a lot of opportunities to
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play sports and to do things. And so, you know, it just that
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led me to a love of sports. And even though I had a business
9:33
degree at the University of Iowa and I still rely on that and I
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still, I still enjoy that part of it.
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My real passion, my real love was in college or excuse me, in
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athletics and sports. And so that led to the coaching
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journey, which then led to to being the CEO of this
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organization. So a little bit of a long
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answer, but I do feel like that just those roots and that
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foundation really set the tone really for the for the entire
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journey. So Carol, I want to, I want to
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talk to you about that just real quick when I ask you a question.
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So we all know this, the the passion for softball was here.
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So when did that start for you kind of like what age and then,
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you know, were you a multi sport athlete back then?
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And and how was it balancing those things back in the back in
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the day back then? Sure I was I was definitely a
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multi sport athlete. Whatever sport was in season I
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was playing it. Or if my brother was he's I have
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a four year, my brother is 4 years older than me.
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Hung out with him a lot. But I played basketball in high
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school. Never met a shot I didn't like
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and fortunately a lot of them did go through the net.
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Not all of them, but I loved basketball.
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But at A at A55 on five feet, 5 inches on a good day, you know,
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my, my career choice of going softball was probably wise
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versus, you know, playing at the 65 young ladies in basketball.
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But I loved basketball. I ran track in high school,
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believe it or not, it was a sprinter and a hurdler and
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enjoyed that and played a lot of softball as well.
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But really what I played golf not competitively then, but you
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know, whatever was happening, I was all in.
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And I still am a big believer in the multi sport athlete.
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I know it's more challenging in this day and age and the, the
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pressures to specialize early and, and there's a lot of
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positives to that. But I, I still am a big believer
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in the multi sport athlete and all of the leadership lessons it
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teaches you. If it's not your primary sport,
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you know, how can you still contribute and lead and, and be
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a part of just your high school spirit and, and, you know, pride
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and all of those things, let alone just, you know, keeping
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your injuries down and, and training all parts of your body.
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But it was a multi sport athlete.
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But when I first really got interested in softball, I owe a
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lot of that credit to my dad. He was a men's fast pitch
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umpire. And as you all know, in the
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Midwest, it's still very popular boys and men's fast pitch
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softball. And I used to, you know, I guess
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my dad was in charge of me, you know, some of those nights and,
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and I would follow him to the ballpark and had my orders where
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I could go and couldn't go and where I could play and couldn't
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play. But I, I found myself just
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enamored with the game, watching these guys play in the they
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pitched and the way they hit very fast-paced game and spent a
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lot of time at the ballpark with that.
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And then when I had the chance to start playing some youth
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softball, very much was rec softball, very much was just,
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you know, kind of the local towns in the area, but fell in
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love with it very quickly. And then when I got to high
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school, you know, the, the career took off quite a bit,
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which then led me to the University of Iowa.
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But it was, it was just a lot of fun.
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Softball has always been fun to me.
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I, I was drawn to it because of the fast pace of the sport and
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just the amount of athleticism it takes.
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But most importantly, I just thought it was fun to hit the
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ball and play defense and play a lot of positions and, and be
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outside. You know, I, I really kind of
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live life outside. So just being outside was also a
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draw versus kind of staying inside with some of the indoor
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sports. So what was it like playing at
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the at Iowa at that time? I mean, like, did you guys have
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your own field on campus or did you have to go to a rec field?
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Once again, I was, I was very lucky.
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I, I, when I started my career at the University of Iowa, that
13:08
was the opening of the facility they still play in today.
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It's in Coralville, which is a suburb of Iowa City, just right
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down, you know, right, right close to campus.
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And I remember the grand opening of that field.
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It's really a four field complex, but the University of
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Iowa's main field is one of those kind of spokes on the
13:29
wheel of the of the fourplex. And so yes, we had our own
13:33
facility and it's again, it's still in use today.
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And so again, very, very lucky. We practiced right on campus.
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You know, the biggest difference is then with just the travel
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schedule, you know, we didn't really take a lot of big trips
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to play then, even though we were Division One college
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athletics, we we were playing outside of the Big 10 Conference
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and of course within the Big 10 Conference.
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But but it was more driving trips, you know, that, you know,
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flying across the country was not really a thing then for all
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sports, let alone women's sports.
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But we had a chance to compete for the Big 10 championship and
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had a chance to make runs in the NCAA tournament and do all those
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sorts of things. Every team had the opportunity
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to do that. So it was a really fun time to
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be a part of college athletics again.
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The longer this journey goes, the more I appreciate the
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opportunities I had when I was at school at the University of
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Iowa and then chose to go to Graduate School there.
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My, the athletic director at the time at the University of Iowa,
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who then became my Graduate School academic advisor, was
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Doctor Christine Grant. And Doctor Christine Grant, it
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was really the kind of the mother of Title 9 and the, what
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she did in college athletics. Again, the equity piece when,
14:47
when college sports went to 6040, we're going to have 60%
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participation and 40% participation, you know, for
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women, Christine Grant said that's not equal.
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We're going to go 5050 at Iowa with participation.
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And she did, she made it work, you know, so I had a great
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experience at the University of Iowa, very competitive
15:07
environment. The AIAW was just phased out
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right before I came into the University of Iowa.
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So I always played under the NCAA.
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There was a lot of transition going on during that time, but
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also a lot of opportunities that that opened up.
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So being around GAIL Blevins, being around Christine Grant,
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just some, you know, you mentioned it, Ken, when you when
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you introduce GAIL Blevins legendary.
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I mean, these are these are legends and big part of my
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journey was just being influenced by those mentors and
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and kind of setting me on the path.
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So I want to ask you, Carol, after you played there, you
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became you talked about becoming a graduate assistant.
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Did you know when you're playing days were over?
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Like I want to be a coach. Is that what what it was?
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And you just jumped right in or was there you were going to
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Graduate School for something different, looking for a
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different career path. Well, that's a great question.
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I feel like at some point in time, everybody comes to that
16:02
fork in the road and you're like, wait, am I going to do
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this or that? And, and that was really a fork
16:07
in the road. I, I had a business degree from
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Iowa. I loved the, the Business School
16:11
there. I actually had a couple
16:13
interviews for jobs, kind of business, accounting, finance
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jobs. And I remember going to the
16:19
interviews and, and they went well and was offered the
16:22
opportunity to start a career there.
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And I, I just couldn't do it. I mean, you don't know who gets
16:27
excited when it's like, here comes the auditor to your
16:30
business. You know, no one gets excited
16:32
about that. And that's where everybody
16:34
started at that time in the business world.
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And I just, I just couldn't do it.
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I was drawn still towards sports, towards athletics.
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And when I remember visiting with my parents a little bit.
16:46
So I was really torn. You know, I just finished this
16:47
degree. I had these opportunities, but
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it just didn't feel right in my heart.
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And I remember them saying, you know, we'll just, you know,
16:54
let's, why don't you go to grad school?
16:55
You can never go wrong getting more education like you can
16:58
never go wrong. And and it'll, it'll sort itself
17:01
out. And they couldn't have been more
17:02
right because when I took the opportunity to go to Graduate
17:06
School, I chose a different route than business.
17:08
I went into athletic administration and coaching is
17:11
actually my masters. I had the chance to coach every
17:13
day with GAIL Blevins, just really immersed myself in that
17:17
sort of arena in terms of the the curriculum and then also
17:22
just being around a lot of coaches.
17:24
And from that point on, I just never looked back.
17:27
It had had just a great opportunity there to to learn
17:30
from GAIL Blevins and then I knew my my fire was lit that I
17:34
wanted to be a a collegiate coach and and on the rest is
17:38
history. So you found your passion there?
17:42
There is no doubt about it. Found the passion and then that
17:45
just led to being around a lot more amazing people like Carol
17:50
Hutchins at the University of Michigan.
17:52
I mean, Hutch is still a dear friend of mine today.
17:55
And when I first had the opportunity to be I was actually
17:58
her first full time assistant. And when I say that I was her
18:02
first full time assistant, had a graduate degree at Iowa and the
18:06
salary $12,000. As you all know, all well when
18:09
you took your first your first job somewhere, but but I
18:13
wouldn't have traded it for the world.
18:14
I had a couple other jobs to make it happen.
18:16
And at the time, Carol Hutchins was still the Carol Hutchins you
18:20
know today. She just didn't have all those
18:21
wins under her belt and now she's the winningest coach in
18:24
Division One history. You know, that just
18:26
springboarded a few more opportunities.
18:28
You mentioned it can led to the starting the program at Purdue,
18:33
coming to the University of Louisville, having a lot of
18:35
success on the field. And so just being able.
18:38
I think coaching is, is really a very selfless profession.
18:42
You know, it's really not about you.
18:43
It's about the lives you impact and just watching them grow on
18:49
the field and then watching them grow in life.
18:51
And so that's, that's really what led me to coaching and,
18:55
and, and why it was such a fulfilling part of my career.
18:59
Carol, I I wanna. I wanna ask you a question here
19:01
that we didn't really send to you, but it's one that I think
19:04
is is very important to. I know you talk a lot about
19:07
being under Hutch and working under her and I'm and GAIL gave
19:10
you tremendous lessons that you, but you also have a very good
19:15
coaching tree as well too. I remember coming down there in
19:18
2014, I asked if I could come to a practice down there in
19:21
Louisville and you brought me out in the middle circle and I
19:24
met this team that had Brittany Duncan there.
19:26
Whitney, who else was on the Jordan Mcnairy?
19:29
And I'm thinking those are three names that are Division One
19:31
collegiate coaches just from that 2014 time when I was down
19:35
there. And I'm sure you've had prior
19:36
coaches when you were at Purdue and so on and so forth.
19:39
But what is it like for you now seeing all of or seeing a lot of
19:45
your former players go on to be really successful, high level
19:48
Division One coaches? What is that like for you?
19:51
It's just it's a lot of fun and and you know, any player you
19:54
coach, you just want them to be happy and fulfilled in their
19:57
career, whatever that means for them.
19:59
But yeah, when they when they make that choice, like, hey, I
20:02
went through this experience and and I think this is something
20:05
I'm passionate about too. I don't want it to end and I
20:07
want to continue to give back. It's a lot of fun.
20:10
I tell you what it what it's really done is it's.
20:13
It's really kept me very connected with those young
20:16
ladies, very connected with all the players I've coached.
20:19
But you just kind of have that special bond or you'll get a
20:22
note, you know, after a big win or, you know, tough loss or just
20:27
like, what was this drill we did?
20:28
This is what we need to do, But I can't remember how it goes.
20:31
And I'll be like, all right, here we go.
20:32
But you're right. Just I think about Lacey Wood,
20:36
who's now Lacey, sure, her merry name.
20:38
She's an associate head coach at Pitt.
20:40
She was the first all American in Louisville history and and
20:43
doing really big things there. It's really her whole journey.
20:46
She's currently at Pitt. You mentioned Whitney Arian,
20:49
she's now has her first head coaching job at Bellarmine
20:52
University here in Louisville, Division One job and just very
20:56
proud of her and and all the things she's doing.
20:58
Cassie Stanfill, you may remember her Jay from from the
21:02
Louisville day is she's the head coach at Austin P University
21:05
doing huge things. So yes, I could go on and on.
21:07
It's and then I have a lot of former players who are high
21:10
school coaches, travel ball coaches, equally as important at
21:15
that grassroots level and and the tone they're setting.
21:17
And so it's yeah, it's a it's a lot of fun.
21:20
I think what it's helped do is post coach player relationship
21:24
is just kind of strengthen that bond because we have that common
21:28
passion involved in terms of helping people and coaching
21:30
people. So, you know, like at convention
21:33
and things you run into some of these folks.
21:35
And I always wondered, you know, because I know my feeling when I
21:40
run into players that, you know, had played for me.
21:42
And now we're, you know, they're adults and it's just it's a
21:45
different relationship, Is it, you know, kind of funny you ever
21:47
think about that sometimes that, you know, or they even from
21:50
their point that here they are, you know, they used to have to
21:53
do what you were saying and, you know, maybe they were a little
21:56
afraid of you or they get mad at you sometimes.
21:58
And now, now here you guys are having a drink somewhere, just
22:02
hanging out. Yes, well said.
22:06
I think where I see it the most is like players weddings.
22:09
You know, when you go to, you go to a former players wedding and
22:13
it's just such a fun celebration and they're so happy and you're
22:16
happy for them. But yeah, this the stories, when
22:19
you go back to their playing days, that their take on the
22:22
stories of how a practice went and your take of how a practice
22:27
went very, very different, you know, very different.
22:31
Like, well, when you said this, I'm like, oh, you know, I didn't
22:34
say it like that, you know, or vice versa or, you know, yeah,
22:38
they're, they're a lot. They're a lot of fun, that's for
22:41
sure. But somewhere along the way and
22:43
all those stories, there's still just a great, you know, mutual
22:46
love for one another and respect for one another, but also just,
22:51
you know, a shared experience, which again, when you have
22:53
shared experiences with people, there's always lessons in there
22:56
too. Lessons, I mean, I've learned
22:58
probably more from the players I've coached than than any
23:01
textbook I've ever, ever studied, but just the lessons
23:04
that they stick with them too. You know, I'll, I'll get some
23:07
sort of a, a note. I got one about a year ago from
23:11
a young lady named Lauren Devich who played at Purdue.
23:13
She's now a lawyer and four kids and one of her, her kids play
23:17
softball and she was talking about travel and road trips with
23:21
these young kids. And she's like, I can hear it
23:23
in, in my head coach, be like, be on time and be flexible.
23:28
Like be flexible. Things aren't going to go
23:29
perfect. So that is the message.
23:31
I'm constantly saying like it's not going to go perfect.
23:34
You have to be flexible and be patient, Be flexible.
23:37
That was kind of our our two things when we traveled then at
23:40
Purdue. And it just, it just, it just
23:42
makes me smile and kind of warms my heart.
23:44
I'm like, well, I guess first of all, I was glad that was kind of
23:47
a timeless lesson because it is a timeless lesson, but that
23:50
she's now imparting that into her players.
23:53
It's a lot of fun. Yes, yes.
23:55
So you take over the program at Purdue, Did you start that
23:59
program, Carol? Was it already started?
24:02
No, it was a brand new program and I was still coming up the
24:07
ranks. I was, I was the ripe old age of
24:09
28 when I took over the program, which probably wouldn't happen
24:13
today, you know, just a little different time and, and era.
24:16
But yes, it was a brand new program.
24:18
No field, no uniforms, no players, nothing but an
24:21
opportunity to start a Big 10 program.
24:24
And it was really tough for me to to leave the University of
24:26
Michigan and and to leave Hutch. We had one back-to-back Big 10
24:30
championships, the first two Big 10 championships of her career.
24:33
At the same time, you know, it was it was just a really great
24:37
opportunity. And again, starting a program in
24:42
1990, four, 1995 was very different than when you look at
24:45
a Clemson who started the program, you know what, 5-6
24:49
years ago, just a different model and, and different
24:52
resources and different things. And I'm, I'm so happy for John
24:55
Rittman and, and that program. If you've never been to that
24:58
facility, you need to go. It's, it's just a great
25:00
environment and great facility. But then it was just, it was
25:04
very different. If they wanted, Purdue wanted to
25:06
play the first year, we weren't playing in the Big 10, but they
25:10
wanted to play and, and I literally started June 1 and
25:12
they wanted to have fall ball, you know, in August and
25:14
September. I'm like, wow, how are we going
25:16
to get players here? So we had, we had two
25:19
scholarship players that we had two scholarship players that
25:22
first year. Just kind of some oddities.
25:25
One young lady had committed to Cal Poly and Cal Poly had
25:28
dropped their program. And I knew the coach there,
25:30
Carol Spanx, who's also in the Hall of Fame, and she had called
25:33
me and said, this young lady, you don't believe this, but her
25:35
grandfather swam at Purdue. Like, she's in LA.
25:38
But her family has these ties and like, well, we need players.
25:42
And I trusted her a lot. And so we had we had two
25:44
scholarship players and the rest were all walk ONS.
25:46
We had a ginormous tryout at a rec field because our field
25:49
wasn't ready and off we went. So you know, you had mentioned
25:52
those 21 wins in the first year. Can believe me?
25:55
We earned every one of those wins because it was a it was a
25:58
really unique group of players that had to come together
26:02
quickly and it was a lot of fun. And then from that point on, you
26:05
know, we were full big 10 member and and off it went.
26:08
But yes, a lot of lessons learned there and starting a
26:11
program when you really have a blueprint and you can start from
26:14
scratch, you know, what kind of uniforms do you know, do you
26:17
want to wear? What type of equipment do we
26:19
want? You know, who are we going to
26:21
hire as a staff? Like what's our what's our
26:23
traditions? What are they going to be?
26:25
You know, what's our philosophy? So that was really a fun
26:28
exercise also, you know, just a lot of hard work went into just
26:32
building that foundation. And now the time the facility we
26:37
had was, it was a nice facility, but the facility they have now,
26:41
they just opened, you know, several years ago is absolutely
26:44
fantastic. They just hosted the Big 10
26:46
Championship last year. And I'm so happy for that
26:50
program to have a facility that really matches the passion, the
26:53
enthusiasm around that softball program that they have.
26:56
So what gave you the confidence to be able to start a program
26:59
like that at the age of 28 years old?
27:03
I think what gave me the confidence was Carol Hutchins
27:05
give me that push. You know, like she she had some
27:08
long, long talks with her and you know, we all get close to
27:13
our players. You guys do as as well.
27:15
And and I remember her saying, you know, these players are
27:18
always at Michigan are always going to be in your life.
27:20
You know, you're always going to have those connections.
27:22
But you know, every four years, all new players.
27:24
So where do you want to be like you're kind of ready for this
27:27
next step? And she gave me a little bit of
27:30
a gentle nudge and, and I thought, you know, if I'm going
27:33
to go be a head coach, I, I played at Iowa in the Big 10.
27:37
I coached in Michigan in the Big 10.
27:38
I'm from Iowa, I'm from the Midwest.
27:40
I just felt like, you know, this really checks a lot of boxes.
27:43
If you're going to start your career somewhere, why not in the
27:45
Big 10 as a head coach? And so I'm not sure.
27:49
I was always confident, that's for sure.
27:52
There there was, I was confident in the fact that I, I knew the
27:56
game and, and I knew the big 10 and, and I was excited about the
27:59
opportunity. But boy, that confidence was
28:02
challenged in the first year when you just had to make a lot
28:04
of decisions on, on, on all the things.
28:07
But I but I appreciate the the vote of confidence from Carol
28:10
Hutchins and the Nudge. So after Purdue, you went to
28:13
Louisville, you were coaching there for a while, and then you
28:16
became involved in the NFCA as well.
28:19
How did that kind of come about? Well, I just, you know, when I
28:22
was at Louisville, yeah, when I was at Louisville, we, we really
28:27
had a lot of success on the field and we won a lot of
28:29
championships. We went to a lot of the NCAA
28:31
tournaments. We hosted a lot of NCAA
28:33
tournaments. It was a lot of fun.
28:35
And while I was at Louisville, I just felt like, you know, I I
28:39
love what I'm doing and I love this lane of like one team, one
28:41
institution, one goal, fighting for the national championship or
28:45
a conference championship. But I just, I found myself kind
28:49
of, you know, always interested in what was happening with the
28:52
sport as a whole. Like, how do we change the
28:54
rules, you know, and how, how does recruiting, you know, the,
28:57
the, the calendar work and what kind of educational professional
29:01
development opportunities are there?
29:03
Like if I want to get better, I've, I've coached now a long
29:05
time, like where do I go to get better?
29:07
And besides just talking to colleagues.
29:09
And so I always kind of had just kind of wanted a little bit more
29:14
while I was still coaching. And so I remember sitting with
29:17
Margot Yonker, who is a Hall of Famer, She coached at Central
29:20
Michigan University. I remember sitting with her
29:23
while I was still coaching at Purdue, even.
29:25
And we were at at an NFCA convention, which looked very
29:28
different than they do now, much smaller, much more intimate.
29:32
And she said, you know, I think you'd be you'd be great.
29:34
You should really consider a role at the NFCA like Division
29:37
One Rep or just just get more involved.
29:39
And I'm like, oh, what does that entail?
29:40
And she told me about it, she kept following up with me about
29:43
it. And so I said, sure, you know,
29:46
one of those nudges of confidence again.
29:48
So once I got involved, I, I was so excited because it just
29:53
really opens up your, you're, you're able to take off your
29:57
institutional hat or your travel ball organization hat.
30:00
And you know, you, you still wear those, of course, that's
30:03
your primary role, but you're able to really take that off and
30:07
put on your softball hat and say, what do, what do we want
30:10
our sport to look like in five years, 10 years?
30:13
And what do we need to do now to make sure that happens?
30:16
And I think back to, you know, whether it's television and the
30:19
exposure there, a lot of the decisions made to, to line those
30:23
things up to make sure our game is, is fun to watch and fun to
30:27
play. So people want to gravitate
30:29
toward it so that that's where the rules come in.
30:31
And just the gosh, the things we've done just recently,
30:35
whether it's a pitch clock or, you know, I could go on and on
30:37
video review, just things that are, you know, less timeouts per
30:41
game. So we keep it moving along, you
30:43
know, for the fans and for TV and for the players.
30:45
So we've done some. I was just always interested in
30:49
that and got excited about that. And then that led to a lot of
30:52
involvement, you know, speaking at a coach's clinic or being a
30:56
convention speaker or whatever it might be.
30:58
And so I realized that excited me just as much after coaching
31:02
for 25 years. You know, that excited me.
31:05
It was the first thing that really excited me as much as
31:08
coaching for 25 years and, and realized I I can still be a part
31:12
of the sport. And now, now my team is not just
31:15
one team, one institution, It's anyone who loves softball.
31:18
And so, yeah, our our team here at the NFCA is huge and we serve
31:23
a lot of people around the organization and that's a lot of
31:26
fun. So Carol, what, what exactly
31:29
does the Executive director do in the NFCI?
31:32
Don't think a lot of people understand that.
31:33
I'm sure it's probably everything, but just give us a
31:36
little little little bit of a of a kind of some of your duties if
31:39
you don't mind. That is a great question, one
31:43
that I've always found a little bit challenging to answer, but
31:46
I'm going to do my best. First of all, what does the the
31:50
CEO of the NSCA do? You wake up every day and your
31:52
focus is on softball and the sport and the coaches within the
31:56
sport and the student athletes within the sport.
31:57
So that's pretty fun. You know, there's a lot of
32:00
people who wake up every day and have other things that they have
32:02
to do are on their mind. So the fact that, you know, I
32:06
work in softball and I work in people is it's probably the
32:09
first way I would answer that question.
32:11
And then and then to dig a little deeper, it's really
32:15
leading the efforts and the relationships with all the
32:18
people in softball. So whether that's being a bridge
32:22
with the NCAA and all of our divisions and coaches that are
32:25
impacted by the NCAA, the NAA, the NJCAA, the high school
32:30
federations, all the travel ball organizations, which there's a
32:33
lot of them right now and growing, which is good.
32:37
So it's just making sure those relationships and the, and the
32:40
bridge is there for for everyone to make sure they can continue
32:43
to grow in their own way. I also spend a lot of time
32:48
visiting with companies around the sport.
32:50
You know, you think of the Wilsons, the Rawlings, the
32:52
Mizuno's, the, the places who host a lot of tournaments, visit
32:57
Saint Pete, Clearwater, they they want softball teams to come
33:01
down there and enjoy their facilities.
33:03
So that's probably been a big part of of this role that has
33:07
expanded tremendously in the, in the 10 years I've been in this
33:10
role, because softball has grown so much, the exposure has grown
33:14
so much, there's there's potential resources that can be
33:19
had around the sport. And so therefore, there's been a
33:22
lot more companies who've invested in the sport of
33:25
softball, which is very exciting.
33:26
So I spent a lot of my time with official sponsorships,
33:30
partnerships, being giving access front to those companies
33:35
to the decision makers in softball so they can all make
33:37
decisions together and helping to grow the sport.
33:40
So I also spent a lot of my time with education and professional
33:44
development. What we talked about a little
33:46
earlier like where do coaches go to get better?
33:48
Well, the answer should be the NFCA.
33:50
And so we have a variety of virtual education.
33:54
We have a lot of our in person events.
33:55
You mentioned one of them. We got our big convention coming
33:58
up in in December and that we've set records the last two years
34:03
for convention. Who knows what will happen this
34:05
year, but we're on track to continue that trend.
34:09
You know our biggest? It's in Las Vegas, so it
34:11
shouldn't be too hard. It's in Las Vegas, so it
34:13
shouldn't be too hard to get people there.
34:15
Yeah. And all direct flights lead to
34:17
Vegas, don't they? So it's really easy to get to
34:20
Las Vegas. So yeah, it's a lot of event.
34:24
We do a lot of events. We do a lot of the sponsorships.
34:27
We do a lot of education. And the last thing I'll say
34:30
probably spend a lot of our time on is, is our awards and our
34:33
recognition. So we're really proud of our
34:35
scholarship programs for coaches to attend our convention.
34:39
We're really proud of the the NFCA All American Awards, which
34:43
are like the North Star because they're voted on literally by
34:47
the coaches, the entire country and our coaching staff of the
34:51
year awards, the field of the year awards.
34:52
We do a lot of awards recognition and we're really
34:55
proud of that as well. It's it's the one place where,
34:59
you know, coaches, we don't like the recognition, you know, we
35:01
want to give it all to our players or we just get a little
35:03
uncomfortable. And at the NFCA, we say, well,
35:05
this is the place where we can say well done and say it
35:08
publicly like, you know, you, you were voted by your peers as
35:11
the coaching staff of the year for your division or your region
35:13
or so we're we're pretty proud of that too.
35:16
And I'm proud of all our coaches.
35:18
So you had a title change this year.
35:20
You went from executive director to chief executive officer.
35:23
What was the reason behind that? Is that something that just
35:26
helps you to have conversations in the corporate world, or is
35:30
there something else behind it? Absolutely nothing else behind
35:34
it and and the job did not change one bit.
35:38
Our Board of directors and really our really a lot of our
35:42
coaches that serve in in some leadership roles just felt like
35:46
that particular title executive director was a little bit lack
35:50
of better terms outdated and can be a little confusing.
35:54
Like like executive director can be a little bit confusing.
35:57
So where, where CEO seems to be very clear, clear cut and, and
36:02
just more, I guess 2025, so to speak.
36:05
So it was really just a, a bylaw change and a, and a title
36:09
change. Personally, I'm not even, I'm
36:11
not even used to it yet. I'm, I'm getting used to it.
36:13
It went in effect in January. So it's been like, I guess 10
36:16
months. But yeah, it's, it's a little
36:18
easier to say. I will say that when I'm
36:21
introducing myself or someone's introducing just to say CEO, but
36:25
no change, just more of a a modernization of the title
36:29
leadership role of the organization.
36:31
Yeah, maybe a better descriptor of what what it is exactly you
36:34
do. Yes.
36:36
Carol, with all of that that you're doing, I still see that
36:39
you still get out there and do a little bit of coaching.
36:41
Some teams will bring you in from time to time.
36:44
Do you do you miss that? I mean, I've had the the the
36:46
privilege and pleasure of watching you present at an NFCA
36:50
convention or not convention, but what do you call?
36:54
Them the coaching clinics. Coaching clinics.
36:56
Thank you, Ken. Duh.
36:57
Need another cup of coffee. But I've had the pleasure of
37:00
seeing you, seeing you present and took a lot away from what
37:04
you're doing. Do you miss presenting?
37:05
Do you miss being on that field? Or you just get just enough to
37:09
keep you, keep you happy. Once a coach, always a coach.
37:12
There's no doubt. I mean, I still think like a
37:14
coach. I certainly answer to that
37:17
title, which I think is the coolest title of all time.
37:20
I yeah, I, I think like a coach, act like a coach.
37:23
There's no doubt. I think that's helped me in this
37:25
role. I think it would be really tough
37:28
to be the NFCACEO without having a coaching background.
37:31
You're leading coaches, so it'd be hard to create curriculum
37:36
and, you know, design rules changes or help with rules
37:39
changes or help with just legislative things if you hadn't
37:42
kind of walked, walked in our coach's shoes.
37:44
Do I miss it? Of course, of course you can't
37:46
spend 25 years of your life coaching and being on the field
37:50
and interacting without, without missing it.
37:52
You can't invest that much. And then, you know, in a, in a
37:55
heartbeat, say I, I'm just done. I miss, I don't miss it.
37:59
Yes, I do miss that daily interaction with the players.
38:02
I miss that one team, one goal that we're talking about.
38:04
Like, you know, you're, you're kind of marching toward a, a
38:07
championship journey, but you are so right in that I still
38:12
have the opportunity to do that. I, I, I go out a lot of local
38:16
players that still live in the Louisville area that do coach
38:19
high school ball, travel ball. I'll go out and help them run a
38:22
practice. Just watch their practice, give
38:24
them feedback, talk to their coaches.
38:27
I still enjoy that. I, I do a lot of zoom calls with
38:30
teams with various things. So sometimes it's not on the
38:33
field, but it's more culture things or standards things or,
38:37
you know, what do you want your team to look like and why?
38:39
And, and, and with coaching Staffs as well.
38:42
So yes, I still get to, you know, get involved with the
38:47
coaching aspect of it, which I absolutely love.
38:49
And at the same time, I just feel like this point in time in
38:54
my life and along the journey being able to serve in this role
38:58
as CEO, my just whole world has expanded the amount of people
39:03
that I've been able to interact with at all levels of coaching.
39:07
And you know, all the, the, the company side of things and the
39:12
all, as I mentioned before, the organization's, the NCAA, all
39:15
the travel ball organizations just feel like that as we used
39:19
to call the Rolodex, right? There's no more Rolodex anymore.
39:22
It's just all in your phone. But you know, the, the contact
39:26
list has just really expanded. And I only share that because I
39:30
feel like I've grown so much because that contact list has
39:34
expanded. I'm just visiting with people
39:36
from all walks of life around softball, including USA Softball
39:40
and, and being on the the selection committee for a short
39:43
period of time. Just just all the different
39:45
opportunities that have been afforded around the sport have
39:48
just really helped, you know, help me grow as a professional,
39:51
which in turn hopefully helps grow the game.
39:54
So, you know, I, I, Jay's been around for a long time.
39:57
I've been a member for nearly 25 years.
40:00
Looking forward to that 25 year award.
40:02
And I've seen a lot of changes along the way.
40:05
I think one of the big ones that you've helped to drive has been
40:08
more involvement in getting more of the travel coaches and the
40:12
high school coaches and all that.
40:14
Why was that so important to you rather than just keeping it
40:17
focused on the college coaches, which is kind of where the NFC 8
40:20
started? Yeah, I think, you know, there's
40:23
some coaches associations that do not have high school travel
40:27
ball members as as part of it and and they have all kinds of
40:30
reasons why. But for us it was it's just
40:33
really important. We all coach, we all have a lot
40:36
to offer. I know at our coaches clinics,
40:39
our collegiate coaches are learning just as much from high
40:42
school travel ball coaches as the high school travel ball
40:45
coaches are learning from the collegiate coaches.
40:47
So that is a very, very important part of our
40:50
organization because the one thing we take a lot of pride in
40:53
in the sport of softball is the ability to collaborate.
40:56
And when you grow the game through including grassroots
41:01
coaches, with collegiate coaches, with professional
41:03
coaches feel like it, that collaboration only increases.
41:08
And so we, we love the fact that if you're interested in coaching
41:12
high school or any level of softball, that you can be a part
41:16
of our organization. Again, what last year you guys
41:18
were in Dallas for the NFCA convention, which is every year,
41:21
it's a huge, huge things for all of these coaches.
41:25
This year coming up, it's in Las Vegas.
41:28
So when and why should our listeners be planning on
41:32
attending? Like why, Why should you go to
41:33
the NFCA convention? Give some, give our listeners a
41:36
little bit of like what happens at this convention for those
41:38
who've never been. Well, you've got coach in the
41:41
title of your podcast, so that means that, you know a lot of
41:44
coaches are listening in. So if you're coaching softball
41:49
and you're a part of softball, the reason you should come to
41:51
Las Vegas is these are your people.
41:54
These are your people. Everyone's passionate about
41:56
softball, everyone's passionate about coaching softball.
41:59
And so the energy, I always tell people you have to feel and
42:03
experience the convention. It's not just something you show
42:06
up to and and attend. You have to feel it and
42:08
experience it. To do that, you have to be there
42:11
just walking around the halls and in all of the rooms and in
42:16
our mentoring session with all of the legends of the game and
42:19
all the rookies of the game is there's just an excitement and
42:22
an energy around that. The second, the reason you
42:25
should come to the the convention is it's a terrific
42:28
place for professional development.
42:30
The amount of speakers we have, the amount of, as I mentioned
42:34
before, the mentoring sessions, the softball summit, which is a
42:38
chance for everyone to get in the same room and talk about the
42:40
biggest issues of the day. Just there's business meetings,
42:44
there's pleasure, there's parties and there's tons of
42:47
professional development. And on top of all that, this
42:50
year in Las Vegas, we will have the largest number of companies
42:55
and the largest number of booths in our exhibit hall.
42:57
We have almost, we're getting real close to 200 companies in
43:01
our exhibit show, which has just been unheard of.
43:03
So you can get a lot of great deals.
43:06
You can get all of your, everyone's budget's a little
43:09
more tight this year. I understand that.
43:10
So that's a great place to shop and and just see the newest
43:13
technology out there. So it's everything you could
43:16
dream of and more. If you're a softball coach and
43:19
you just want to be around some of the best in the game, but
43:22
also just the energy and excitement of networking with
43:25
like minded people, it's it's definitely the place to be.
43:29
Yeah, I, you know, looking at those booths and going through
43:32
there all the time, I remember I always had to try to hide it
43:35
from my wife. So I had to spread it out across
43:37
a few different credit cards. So besides the convention
43:40
itself, what other education and networking opportunities are you
43:44
offering? Well, throughout the entire year
43:47
we we have a year round mentoring program where we match
43:50
three people, you know, a pinnacle member, somebody who's
43:53
been around a long time, a mid tier member, somebody who's been
43:56
coaching 5 to 15 years and then a rookie.
43:58
You know, if you've been coaching less than five years
44:01
and we have a year round mentoring program, it's one of
44:04
the most fun things I've been a part of.
44:06
We've had it now for the last probably five years.
44:09
And so it's just a way to connect people and mentor
44:13
throughout the entire year. That's one of our, one of my
44:15
favourites. You mentioned it, We have our,
44:18
our coaches clinics. These are 8 regional clinics
44:21
across the country. They're, they're short, they're
44:23
like a short mini version of the convention where we bring in
44:27
collegiate coaches. The majority of the audience is
44:29
high school travel ball coaches. And it's a chance to learn and
44:32
grow and also network in a, in a shorter time frame.
44:36
And gosh, we have virtual education on every topic you
44:42
possibly could want. So we have virtual education
44:45
surrounding, you know, pitching, hitting, catching, defense, you
44:50
name it. We've got a lot of virtual
44:52
education and webinars as well. So if you want to learn
44:56
something, if you you join the NFCA and get into your coaches
45:00
box, which is the the back end of of our, of our website kind
45:05
of behind where you have your membership.
45:07
There's everything and anything you could want to learn about
45:09
the game, practice plans within that coaches box.
45:13
Awesome. Yeah, and don't forget the
45:15
national fast pitch Coaches College.
45:17
I love that. Yes, the NFCCS, I agree with
45:20
you, Ken. They're one of my favorite
45:21
things I've ever done as an instructor.
45:23
They're not one of my favorites as as the CEO and and the reason
45:27
they've become some of my favorites is you get the
45:29
classroom time, but you also have the on field time so you
45:33
can bring it to life. You kind of talk about the
45:35
strategies and watch some videos and really kind of hash through
45:39
whatever the topic is, if it's hitting, whatever it might be.
45:42
And then you get to go to the field and and have players there
45:45
and watch the instructors coach and teach them and bring it to
45:48
life. Absolutely.
45:49
And, and I have to share this one.
45:51
I think you were one of the instructors there.
45:53
I think it was you and Cindy and Hutch down in Florida.
45:57
And it was like if you ever wondered what it was like to
46:00
play for, for Hutch, we went out to the field and everybody did
46:05
the, you know, they went through all the defensive stuff 1st.
46:07
And I've told the story before, but I just love telling it.
46:10
Go through all the defensive stuff and everything.
46:11
And they said, OK, now we're going to go to the offensive
46:14
part. So the girls over there who were
46:16
just volunteering to help out with this, you know, wasn't
46:19
anything, you know, that they had to do.
46:21
They were just there out of the goodness of their hearts.
46:23
You know, the players at the school start getting their
46:26
helmets and their bats out. And the hutch is just steaming.
46:30
And she's over there. And, you know, I was standing
46:32
fairly close to her. And she goes, if this is my
46:34
practice, they would have already had those out.
46:39
Sounds right. Sounds about right.
46:42
So a little more insight on those.
46:44
So looking back on everything from the time you were player
46:48
from a grad assistant, how do you think the game has changed?
46:52
The game has changed a lot and it's changed in in all good
46:56
ways, which is why you can turn on the television now from
46:59
February, March, April and May or the OR your streaming choice
47:03
and watch softball because it's in such high demand, because
47:06
it's such a fun, fast-paced game.
47:08
But I will say how how the game has changed.
47:11
You know, we went from big picture stuff.
47:14
We went from a white ball that you could pick up in the third
47:18
inning and shake it and rattle it and hear what was happening.
47:21
There's no way you could hit it. It was just like falling apart.
47:24
So the offense wasn't, you know, if you were a 300 hitter when I
47:29
played in college or shortly thereafter you or something, now
47:31
it's a 400 hitter. You know, it's just more offense
47:33
in the game. So we went from the white ball
47:35
to a yellow ball change the core made the ball more lively, not
47:39
unsafe, just definitely more more lively.
47:41
There's a lot of standards around that, studies around
47:43
that, you know, moving the pitching plate, it was a 40 feet
47:47
forever. So we had 40 feet in the white
47:49
ball. And so the lot of two to one
47:50
games, one to nothing games. And now we went, we have 43 feet
47:54
a yellow ball. The core is better and now, you
47:58
know, our best pitchers can still win, but they might win 5
48:00
to 4, you know, six to three. It's just, it's just it's more
48:03
fun for the players, the fans, you know, the television
48:07
audience, the coaches that could go on and on.
48:09
So that that's I think the first thing we did was help the
48:12
offensive part of our game quite a bit over the years.
48:17
And I think taking the the tried and true traditions of our
48:20
sport, like we don't have a clock, you know, we're not like
48:23
basketball and football where there's a clock constantly.
48:28
But the games could get long, as you both know, because of lots
48:32
of time outs or lots of almost gamesmanship, stepping in,
48:36
stepping out, all of those things that just took a lot of
48:39
time. And for our game to be
48:40
television friendly, it has to fit into some pockets and
48:44
windows. I mean, that's just the name of
48:46
the game. Now that I've been on the
48:48
broadcasting side and learning more about that from ESPN, you
48:51
know that it's it's really important.
48:52
So our coaches and our leadership in the sport have
48:56
been open to making those changes so that we are more, you
49:01
know, continue to grow the game in the audience to, to a whole
49:03
new group of people. So we've had a lot of rules
49:06
changes with number of time outs and the pitch clock and, and,
49:11
you know, we've, we want to get it right.
49:12
So we've used video review, which sometimes challenges our,
49:16
our time constraints, but we've gotten a lot better at that.
49:18
So just feel like our stadiums are getting bigger, you know,
49:23
our, the amount of coaches that can coach on a college campus
49:27
that's enhanced. You know, it used to be 1, maybe
49:29
2 coaches and a staff meeting. And now you can have 15 if you
49:32
have a player development and a video person and a four coaches.
49:36
And so just the amount of staff and resources going into our
49:40
sport, which ultimately helps the student athletes, let alone
49:43
the Rev share the NIL. We just thrilled that that
49:47
women's sports are in that conversation as well, along with
49:50
softball. So there's just, it's, it's
49:52
grown tremendously. It's been so much fun to be a
49:54
part of, to just watch the sport elevate.
49:58
And I feel very, you know, one of one of the biggest
50:01
responsibilities that I wake up with every day or that I think
50:04
about every day is, you know, how can we keep softball a
50:07
priority sport on campus with all the revenue and all of the
50:11
expenses now around college athletics?
50:14
You know, you don't want to be the sport that's kind of on the
50:17
low end there that, you know, we don't need softball anymore.
50:20
We don't want that to happen. So how can we keep softball
50:23
priority sport and what can we do to keep keep the sport
50:25
thriving? And those are the questions I
50:27
asked every day and really wake up every day to to continue to
50:31
make those things happen. Because if our sport is where it
50:33
is now, 20 years from now, we're in trouble.
50:35
We have to keep keep elevating it, keep making it exciting and
50:39
and keep making things happen. Well, you've certainly done a
50:41
good job with that because you you look at those ESPN ratings
50:44
every spring and they keep growing and growing and, and
50:47
more and more people are falling in love with the sport, even
50:50
people that have nothing to do with it directly.
50:53
Carol, just just one last question for you here.
50:55
Oh, for first. Oh, go ahead.
50:57
Go ahead, Carol. Sorry.
50:59
No, I, I disagree with you, Ken, in that the audience just being
51:03
on on television and the exposure and the high level of
51:06
student athlete, the quality of athlete that's now playing
51:09
softball and we're able to showcase that on television.
51:12
I agree. When I'm traveling and, you
51:14
know, we just start talking or striking up a conversation or
51:17
just they'll, you know, see something with softball.
51:19
I mean, so many people that have nothing to do with softball,
51:22
like, Oh my gosh, I watched the whole month of May.
51:24
I never turned my station off softball.
51:27
And I'm like, this is great. You know, just yes, the amount
51:30
of people we've been able to touch to help grow the game has
51:32
been tremendous. So, Carol, thank you so much for
51:36
spending time with us today. I just have one more question
51:38
for you. That's it.
51:40
Again, we really appreciate not all everything.
51:42
We appreciate everything you've done for softball.
51:44
And I can and I could will say what you've done for both of us.
51:48
You've been a big influence with us too.
51:50
Just real quick one, do you have any hidden talents to share?
51:52
Do you like to share or something people would be
51:54
surprised to learn about you? Hidden talents.
51:57
Oh my goodness. Well, I guess that I'm just
52:00
really musical as well. I play the piano and I love to
52:03
play the piano. I love to sing.
52:05
I I don't sing as much outside of the shower now as I used to,
52:08
but but I used to, you know, be very did did that a lot singing
52:13
and I I played the trumpet for a long time.
52:15
So I just very musical was a musical family.
52:18
Still still love to play the piano and and that sort of
52:21
thing. So yeah, that's probably just
52:23
kind of a fun fact. Very cool.
52:26
We'll have to see if we can get you get a piano over there at
52:29
convention, get you up there. I'm ready.
52:33
I'm ready. Alrighty, great.
52:35
Well, Carol, thank you so much for joining us.
52:37
We know you've got a little time constrained here.
52:39
We appreciate all the time you spent with us.
52:41
So this has been fantastic. Thank you so much.
52:45
Thank you and thanks for all you both do to grow the game.
52:49
All right, well, that's it for us this week.
52:51
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52:54
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52:56
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