Latest / For Love We Heal Podcast / Relationship OCD (ROCD) vs Real Relationship Problems

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Relationship OCD (ROCD) vs Real Relationship Problems · For Love We Heal Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the For Love We Hill podcast.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: It is August 20th today, and today I talked to Grace about the difference between ROCD versus real relationship problems.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's a pretty big topic.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's uh highly requested.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: I get this question a lot, so uh I decided that we're gonna do an episode and break it down for you today.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's sort of understanding what is the difference, what's ROCD and what's a real relationship problem that um that's either worth addressing or significant enough to warrant actually leaving the relationship.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: So hopefully uh today you get some more clarity on that.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: Also, something else that you might be interested in checking out is a new video I've just put up on the YouTube channel, which is uh which is a video all about is this ROCD or am I just in the wrong relationship?
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I've just uploaded that today, so you can check it out now.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's on our YouTube channel.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: Everything will be linked down in the show notes.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um and uh I think that's it.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: So let's dive into today's episode.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody, welcome back to another episode of the For Love We Heel podcast.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, welcome back, Grace.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's been a little bit since we jumped on and did an episode, so I'm excited to to to uh to do this today.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um too.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's been a bit you've been quite busy, your client load has increased, and uh you got some other things going on, so uh it's kind of limited your capacity for the podcast.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: But and I actually haven't been on the podcast either in a while, so I'm glad we're jumping on doing this.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: I've had a lot uh going on.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: We're currently working on getting our uh or I guess I'm currently working on getting you know our ads up and running and stuff, and as well as uh starting a YouTube channel and everything.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: So uh uh so that's been taking up my time, but uh nonetheless, here we are to do um uh an episode called ROCD plus real relationship problems.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: And um I'm sure that many of you listening are aware that you might have ROCD, but there is also for most people real relationship problems that surface.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: And how do you differentiate between the two?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: Elaborate on that, Grace.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: How do you want to speak to that?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: So how to well, what I've seen, I'll just speak to what I've seen with clients and what I experienced myself, right?
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Is that a real relationship problem, and we'll we'll kind of dive into what that means and what that is, right?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Will surface.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then the part of you, right, usually that avoidant part of you will use it as evidence, will hook onto it as evidence of like, see, I have been lying to myself.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have ROCD.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: There is a like, there is a reason I should break up.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then the spiral, like it feeds that spiral instead of like um, I'll speak for Alex and and myself, because we've talked about this, right?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Now that we have effectively healed from ROCD and relationship problems come up in our relationship, is it stressful?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Of course it's right, it's a problem, it's an issue that needs to be dealt with.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: And for me at least, I'll speak for myself, I'm not coming at it from this like panic state.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not breaking up is not even crossing my mind.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: What's crossing my mind is, oh, okay, yeah, this is this is an issue.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: What are what are some things?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: What are some tools?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: What who can I talk to about this?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Do we have a therapist?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: Do we have someone we could do a couple couple sessions with?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Do we just need to sit on the couch and really talk and hear each other's?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: I know, Alex, you do a great communication, you share great communication practice with your clients, um, what they can do with their partner, how they can communicate.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: And like, like, what can we do?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not in this, like, oh my God, this is evidence that I never had ROCD and da-da-da-da.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, you will have relationship problems in your healthy relationship.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: There is no escaping that, right?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: And they might be big, they might be small.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're gonna help you today recognize.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think what we'll do, maybe Alex, is like we can talk a little bit about like what are some things that might be ROCD fueled, that might be issues that are not relationship problems, but just, you know, obsessions and things that maybe we can you we can help you let go of.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: And what are issues that need to be worked on?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think when when your self-trust is eroded from ROCD from being separate from self, from your parts, from being blended with your parts, when that self-trust is eroded, it's hard to tell the difference between that.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I had a friend I remember when I was going through this who doesn't even like he's not like a practitioner or anything, he's just a friend who was kind of witnessing my journey.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, Grace, I think we I said this last time.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: He was like, make sure your concerns are fair.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't really know what that meant, but yeah, we can we can talk about that too.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that's yeah, that's kind of what I'm thinking to go into.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: How to differ differentiate between what's ROCD and your personal issues arising and what's actually needing to be addressed within the context of your relationship through communication, through repair, through boundary setting, etc.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: Because they're two separate issues, but they do kind of fire off one another.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: So what we're here to do is help you tease them apart and understand what to do in either scenario, whether it's ROCD symptoms surfacing or whether it's real a real relationship problem surfacing.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a tendency with folks with ROCD, as we were you were saying, Grace, to go, well, oh no, this thing surfaced.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, whether my partner um got really grumpy or angry or said something mean to me or yelled at someone in traffic, or um, you know, or spent X amount of dollars out without consulting us first, given that we have shared finances, or um, or my partner doesn't help around the house, or whatever it is, right?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: That we have to be careful not to immediately jump to, well, see, now that this was all right.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: My this I'm in an unhealthy relationship and we're not compatible, and I'm and you know, I should just leave and find someone that this would be easier with, that where we wouldn't be having these problems, where there'd be more compatibility and uh where we wouldn't run into these, right?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: So we're gonna be talking about that now.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so Grace, so talk let's let's talk about first what um what is more of the ROCD side of things, and then we can talk about is that how we should do it that way.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe we'll talk about ROCD first.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so talk to us about what is an ROCD specific issue that one that someone listening might be running into that is more so to be addressed internally, yeah.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, obviously we might need to express ourselves and and verbally process what's going on for us and not keeping everything in, but what's less of a uh, you know, uh an issue that's addressed between two people to figure out something to move forward together and what's something, you know what I mean?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: So speak to that.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, absolutely.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: First thing that comes up for me is I don't feel in love enough.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I don't know if I I'm having the thought that I might not love them and it's popping up a lot.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: I can't, I I feel I don't feel my emotions are not big enough when it comes to them, right?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you're remembering, listen to our episode a couple episodes ago about exes, why I want my ex so bad, right?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not feeling the same way I felt in other relationships.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, and then with that comes, I don't wanna, you know, I don't want to settle, right?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's like the the the big, big word, big, big fear.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to settle.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to hurt the other person if I'm not as in love with them as they are with me.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: ROCD.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Period.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: All of that.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Anything that you're like, I don't know if my emotion is right here.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if my emotion is not funny enough.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, silly enough, playful enough, smart enough.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: All of those things, smart enough.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um my partner, uh, my partner's awkward when we go and hang out with other people and they're not as social as I am, or not as playful or funny as I am, or that I would like them to be.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: If you listen to our last episode, I don't want to have sex with them a lot, or right now, or ever, like I don't feel like being intimate with them.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: I get that a lot with clients where they're like, I don't feel like being intimate with my partner, so why would I stay?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: What's the point?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because uh because society says if you're not having sex with your partner, your roommates, you know?
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so like that's another one that I would say is ROCD coded.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's something you need to address in your inner world.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: And with all of these ROCD concerns, like like you said earlier, Alex, like there might be a helpful process in like expressing them in a certain way, or like working through them with your partner, but but these issues on their own are not were are not like core relationship issues, right?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: When my friend said to me, Grace, make sure your uh concerns are fair, he was referring to, I don't know if my partner is attractive enough for me, I don't know if my partner is smart enough, ambitious enough, funny enough, nice enough to my family, like whatever, you know what I mean?
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah those are not fair concerns, is what we would say, right?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: They're they feel very real and fair to your parts.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: I want to make sure we validate that, right?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: And not add shame to this pile.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: And like there, it's just some things to notice, things to notice.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because because then if we lean into more of the relationship, actual real relationship problem side of things, there could be a very um uh reasonable uh uh reason as to why you might not want to be engaging with them sexually, and that could be because of something that doesn't feel safe within the context of the relationship.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: Now, um, right, so that can kind of th what that topic can lean into the real relationship problem side of things, right?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: Because an intimacy problem can be your own block and fear of vulnerability and connection, right?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: And and or it can be something that you're it's not feeling good in the context of the relationship, and you don't have appropriate boundaries, or you don't feel like you can speak up for yourself or name your experience or ask for something different.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: So then you instead just cut it off.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: Part of you cuts it off completely.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: So just to name that piece, right?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: So when as Grace is saying, not smart enough, funny enough, attractive enough, I don't feel uh as in love enough.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you'll notice all these enoughs, right?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: These like there's an experience that you're having on your own that doesn't feel like you believe it should feel, to where you then draw the conclusion that it's not right.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: That is ROCD stuff.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's an internal problem that needs to be addressed within you, um, where you are working with your own protective parts around making space so that you can have more flexibility in in um being authentic and opening your heart and connecting, etc.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right, that's right.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: And once you do that, right, once you have addressed those inner things, because I have some people say, like, oh, well, you know, how do I know for sure that it's my inner world?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: How do I know for sure?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: That is always gonna, and that's RSD too.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's always gonna be your question to yourself if you're really blended with your parts in all of this is what if it isn't that?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: I know you guys are saying it is, but what if I'm different?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: What if I'm the exception?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Just know, just like lovingly know that that is that in itself, that questioning of whether it's RSCD or not, whether you're the exception or not.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: That is no matter whether the person is, Alex and I say this all the time, no matter whether the person you are with is your is the person you're gonna be with long term or not, addressing the inner thing still has to happen.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: It still has to happen.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I say to people when they're like, oh, well, what if it's not my inner, you and I have talked about Alex, like what if I discover that you know they're not right for me?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: I completely understand that fear.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to hold you through that.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna be gentle in doing this work.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: And no matter what the outcome is, you have to do the inner work first.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah before you can know anything about your dynamic with your partner.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's an important thing to talk about, right?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Is like you might not be able to see any of your relationship issues clearly until you do the inner work.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: And and it's clear that you what you will discover if there are if there are issues, you will discover issues and not a magical answer.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's not they will be they will be observable, measurable, objective things that you can identify that say, this feels good, this doesn't feel good, and if it doesn't feel good and it's unhealthy, how do I address it?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: Can I address it?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: And how do we work on it?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's you're not gonna you're not gonna do the work and suddenly realize you're in the wrong relationship, and I'm releasing a YouTube video today that says is it ROC or the wrong relationship?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: So check that out on YouTube for Lovely Hill channel.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um there's no wrong relationship.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right or wrong is a moral judgment.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: So and moral judgments shouldn't be used to determine relationship suitability unless it's a moral issue, like if your partner is morally, you know, corrupt, that where but moral judgment should not be used to make decisions on your relationship.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: So right and wrong needs to be completely thrown out and replaced with healthy and unhealthy, and uh healthy and unhealthy is observable.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: So cut it out.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'll put it gently, cut it out because you're not there's no there's no sudden, you know, surfacing of this grand epiphany that you've been on the wrong life path all along.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: Just doesn't happen, right?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: It never that does not happen.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: It just doesn't happen.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: It can't be too hyper-vigilant.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, it doesn't happen.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Second of all, part of what you are working on right now, if you're listening to this podcast, likely is hyper-vigilance.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's anxiety and hypervigilance.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: You're not missing something, y'all.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: You're not missing something.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, you're seeing things that maybe aren't objectively measurably there, right?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Which we, you know, I want to make sure I just did a um just did a little workshop with David Bedrick.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: He's just one of my favorite practitioners, and he is all about shame, right?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: And and how shame can affect.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so check out his work if you haven't like how shame is so pervasive.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to make sure, you know, we're not adding shame to the same like cut it out or you're too hyper-vigilant.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: We're because we're kind of shaming.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: I don't I don't want to bring shame in.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that this is a tough love moment when when Alex and I are speaking this way.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: We want you to know that like we're not trying, if you're feeling shame, that's valid.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, I'd love to, I'd love to just say that like we have been, again, in the depths of this ourselves, and we know how hard it is.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: And some of the things that helped me when I was in the depths is that friend of mine that was like, Grace, cut it out.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Cut it out.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: You're wondering if your partner's smart enough, attractive enough.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do you what do you mean?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Those aren't your values.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's not what you really care about.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: What is going on here?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: Look at it.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of my clients have immense guilt about uh attraction obsession, right?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because they're like, I'm shallow, I'm and and that's just adding shame to the pile, right?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of focusing in on like what's wrong with me, I didn't know I was so superficial, I da-da-da-da, I feel so guilty, I'm a bad person.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Let's instead of like let allowing shame to kind of rush in, let's look at why.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, let's look at what's important about being shallow.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, let no one ask that.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: When have you ever heard that?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: What's important, what's useful about being shallow?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: Because because you wouldn't be shallow if you if you're watching, I have my fingers doing what is this, air quotes or something?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: What's that called?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, air quotes.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, air quotes.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, right?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because everything that we would call path pathological or you know, um not coming from a wise, compassionate stance is protection.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: And shallowness and focusing on attraction, for example, is protection.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: So instead of sort of saying, Oh my god, what a I'm such a terrible person, you know, how how I can't I can't believe that I'm laying next to my partner every night having these thoughts.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: How what kind of person am I?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm such a terrible person for doing that.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and and and I'm staying with them too.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: To add it on top of that, I'm staying with them.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, if they only knew what was going on inside of my head, they you know, they'd be so upset and I would hurt them, and that's all the shame, right?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: But what what most of us aren't doing, which makes sense because when that shame takes over and the critic comes in, we're berating ourselves for being a certain way, and we're not, we don't have any room for curiosity.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: But the practice is spending time being mindfully aware of the parts of us that are focused on attraction or that are giving us breakup urges or that are making us feel disgusted with our partner.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: We have to practice be being mindfully aware of the parts as a way to get curious about them and discover what they're trying to do for us and how they're trying to protect us.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: And just a plug for the group, um, the group program, Alex, and your, I don't know if you want to talk about your app.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think that it's really hard to kind of sit in your own head and do this, right?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: So this might be a good moment to just talk a little bit about that and then we'll we'll go back into the the topic at hand.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I sent Grace the app uh and I just I just developed an app using Claude.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it's a web-based app.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's not on the App Store yet.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna be probably doing that at some point.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: But uh it's web-based now, but it saves all your info so you put your your email in or whatever, it's connected to your own account.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but what what you get with the app is you get an uh the the a the IAI model in it is trained uh using IFS, so it guides you using the IFS model, which is the model that you know we primarily use with our work with clients, uh along with you know somatic work and and you know and all that.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: But the app guides you step by step in toward getting to know these parts and understanding them and actually you know working toward healing what they're protecting and the shame underneath and whatever else is you know underneath.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: So in the app, you get you know, you get a guided inner work, you get a symptom checker.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're like, oh, I'm like having this weird thing going on for me, you type it into the symptom checker and it breaks and it gives you the specific parts that correlate to that symptom that you're having.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: So that you're not like, well, I feel this, I feel this uh this urge to leave.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: It must be my intuition telling me to leave.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: You put if you put urge to leave, it will direct you right to the the breakup urge part, and it will give you exactly the protective strategy, what it's protecting underneath, and then it will invite you into a session with that specific part that you've identified in the symptom checker to actually get curious about it and get to know it.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: There's a ROCD assessment in there, there's a parts map.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: So every time you have a session, it populates your parts map that you can sort of topically see what's going on.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's really, really cool.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: I really encourage uh, you know, if uh you to you check it out.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I've just the the Prices of the the course and community have increased.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: I've now broken it into two different parts.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a foundations course where you get my 12-hour course, you get the app, and you get a private WhatsApp group.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then the circle side of things is in addition to all the foundation foundation pieces, you get weekly support groups with me.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: What we're actually doing now is uh if you can't make a support group, the the teaching, the teaching component, the guided practice component, and the Q ⁇ A are all recorded now.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: So you can now go back in and watch the recording.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: What's not recorded is the personal sharings and group processing stuff.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: So for so uh for the foundation it's 47 a month, for the circle, it's 97 a month.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: So uh you'll you'll get a free seven-day trial on either of those.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: So come in and check it out.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um and especially the app, I think the app's just such a such a useful tool because you can literally carry it around your pocket all the time.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: So whenever you're struggling with something, pull out the symptom checker, uh, pull out the the guided the guided work and do a little session with the part of you that's activated, right?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um so uh so I invite you to check that out.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: Grace, you you messaged me after I sing that.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, how the hell does it do that?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: What did you say?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: How does it do this?
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, how does it know?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's very, it is very like Alex said, it's trained in the in the IFS model, and it really knows to direct you in that way out of your thoughts and into your parts in a very kind, gentle way that is it, it's what we it's what you know.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: I wish I had it when I was going through this, really.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Me too.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um I really do.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's why I made I made it that way.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: I I made it, I made it to cover all the bases, and mind you, there's still gonna be I'm gonna be adding to it and editing it and everything as we go, and you'll get all the you'll get all the changes at to the app as it develops more and more.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: But I developed it to be what kind of provides the missing paint pieces to what, you know, because you and I had nothing when we were going through this.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean, you know, besides the work, um, you know, if with our therapists and stuff, but you know, between sessions it can be really helpful to have that.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, yeah, before we transition, yes.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry, I'm like switching topics, but yeah, no, I think you should have because we've been talking about the we've been trying to sell the course for like five minutes now.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and break.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: But but yeah, it's it's so helpful.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I want people, you know, I just I want people to have as much help as they can as they're going through this because they're probably listening to us talking about all these things and being like, okay, well, how do I do the inner work?
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: What do you so this is some of the how.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: This is some of the how.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's all of the how.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's all of the course and and the community and the app.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and then obviously the you know, generally that's not gonna be everything that you need.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, working with, you know, someone one-to-one is gonna be probably key, especially when you're working down the layers of wounding, like to where OCD is in, like those core shame wounds, can be really challenging to both get to and work with.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really helpful to have a practitioner that are actually guiding you, but you can do a lot in the course and community.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: So uh so do check that out.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: And we uh we have you covered in case you do want to do the one-to-one work as well, which all the all the links to everything is gonna be in the show notes.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: So awesome.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: But uh let's move on.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: So now we're kind of switching to real relationship issues.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, oh, you know what?
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: Really quick before we do, there was just one thing I forgot to say about the ROCD side of the house.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that is just something I want to leave people with before we transition over is either by yourself or with a practitioner or a therapist, drilling down to the core fear of that that is behind your obsession, like or behind your your compulsion and or your whatever's happening in your mind is so important.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when we say the inner work, that's just the piece of it I didn't mention.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: Quick example, attraction, right?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm worried that my partner's not attractive enough.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and what would happen if you chose a partner who's not attractive enough?
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: What does that mean?
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it means that I'm settling.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh, what does that mean?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, then that means I'm wrong.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, you're wrong.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: What if you're wrong, what what happens?
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: And eventually I won't spoil it.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: I won't spoil it, but you'll get to the core wound.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: And Alex, you talked in the last episode how you touched your like exile, you're like uh for like the first time in a long time or in ever.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: And you've been doing this work for a long time.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it takes time, but there is just know that there is a wound under your like quote air quote superficial attraction issues, right?
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, yeah.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I just want to say that before we switch up work because I think that's important.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's great.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's there's more of the attraction thing, but uh, we're not gonna have time doing that.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we'll do a whole episode on that.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: We I think we have already, but maybe we'll revisit it at some point.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe we'll do that, yeah.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what are real relationship problems?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, real relationship problems.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll just mention some of the things that come up in sessions with um with clients.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: One is lying.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think that there are lots and lots of levels of lying.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, obviously, there are levels of lying that are abusive, there are levels of lying that are withholding information, white lying about like household chores, money things.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: That is and and productive lying.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: Productive lying?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me about that.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: Good lying.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: Are you like, wait a second, actually?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: What is good lying?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: What are you talking about?
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: When is it ever okay to lie?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: Well, well I think that there's way there's there's times that we're not going to be truthful to be kind.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like like honestly, like I mean, if your partner asks you, like, how they um you know, like let's say you have a breakout or something of like acne or something, and your partner says, How I feel so insecure, like how am I looking?
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: You look great, you look beautiful.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: You're not gonna be like, Well, I noticed that you have acne, so you're looking a little uglier than you were yesterday.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and everything's like I see where you're going.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: If they're feeling insecure and they're coming to you and they're feeling insecure, you don't tell them that that they're yeah, actually, I was thinking the same thing.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, maybe it's not so you're absolutely no, you're perfect in every way.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: Even if you're not feeling it.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and I think that's useful advice because people with ROCD tend to want to be like, they feel like, well, I don't want to lie.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: They have an honesty thing.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: People with RCD tend to have a like an honesty value, which is a wonderful value.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't, it doesn't mean you need to share every thought, everything.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that that's yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because that this is another, this is an example of like, we might have said, oh, lying is a real relationship issue.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: This type is not that's right.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: That is not what we mean.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: What what and so that I'm glad you brought that up because some people might be like, see, I knew that, you know, it's like, no, no, no, that's not what we mean.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: What we mean is like, I'll give a couple specifics.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, spending money, you like you said, Alex, buying something expensive without consulting your partner if you share finances.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, telling your partner that you did the dishes, and then your partner comes home early from work and sees that you didn't, right?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like white lies or withholding information.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't lie to you, I just didn't tell you, right?
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's about a practical, it's about something in your household, in your finances, in your relationship, right?
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: This can be an issue because even our ROCD aside, it kind of creates hypervigilance in people, right?
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: Where they're like, okay, if they're lying, what I hear a lot from people is like, if they lied about this, could they lie about something bigger?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so it erodes trust over time.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: Now I don't want you to hear that and be like, oh my God, my relationship's doomed.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's no trust.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: No, that it can be rebuilt.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'll tell you from personal experience.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'll have to, I won't go into too too detail because I'd have to get consent from my partner to share our specifics, but like we have been through this.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, where like we went through a period where this was happening, and it was more like trying to protect the other person from being disappointed.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: And we worked through it.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: And we and I feel both of us, I could say, feel completely different now.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like we really, really trust each other.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's just, it is, it's a fixable thing for sure.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: But it can, it can turn into an issue that is, you know, that can feed our OCD, but is not necessarily like you're not making it up if your partner is lying to you.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't mean your relationship is doomed.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean let's see, you know, let me let's talk about like quote, air quote ambition drive.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about that.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because I there is a good one.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: There is a pattern for those of us with ROCD, like it's not everyone, I will say, right?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: But there is a pattern in that I'm seeing with clients that like they are kind of the like-oriented, hyper-vigilant, it's oftentimes breadwinner partner.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: And their partner is a little more laid back, a little more chill, a little less like um there's a little less urgency.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: There might be some depressive stuff.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: And they might be labeled as like you might be labeling as them as like lazy or lazy or not ambitious enough or not making enough money or not career-driven enough, right?
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: This is this is a tough one because ROCD, a lot, like some of this is absolutely ROCD, right?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: And some of it might be something you actually want to address in your relationship.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: If you are feeling like, you know, I'm carrying a lot of the financial and maybe household load here.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm it's feeling unbalanced to me.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: That is an issue to address, right?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's measurable.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's what are you doing?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: What am I doing?
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: How can I help?
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: What help do you need?
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: What help do I need?
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it is it's a measurable thing.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: It is not confronting your partner and saying, hey, I need you to be more ambitious.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: I need you to be more driven.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: You're not going to get anywhere.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's the ROC.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: Than you are.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: You need to be different than you are.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's the behaviors, the outcomes, right?
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like, my partner and I have been through this as well.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: And what's so so wild about it is at one point we both felt like the other one was doing not doing enough household chores.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: It was like that Spider-Man meme where we were like, uh, you know, we were like having a serious conversation, and we both were like, I don't feel like you're doing enough dishes or laundry.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, You think I'm you're not.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's like a and those types of things happen when there's not communication between you.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then what was so beautiful about that for my partner and I is we're like, oh my God, okay, what can I take from you?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: And what can you take from me to make this feel a little better?
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it took some time, but like that's a measurable issue that you can work out together.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: I I want to read you everyone something.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: I was in the YouTube video that I I uh I just did, but um let me see.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so let me just read this.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: John Gottman, widely known for his work on marital stability and divorce uh prediction, talks about the masters versus disasters of relationship.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: The masters aren't the ones who don't fight, everyone fights.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: The masters repair, they reach out, they reconnect after a rupture.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: Rupture repair attempts predict long-term success even more than compatibility.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: Most people think compatibility and success of relationship means finding someone who matches you perfectly by having the same interests and personality, but research says that's a myth.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: Gottman found that 69% of conflicts in any relationship never get resolved.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: They're permanent differences, and every couple has them.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: He points out that most of what couples fight about come from stable differences in personality and desire, which are not solvable problems, right?
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: So this is what we're talking about like tidy, not tidy.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: If one person wants to be around friends or family a lot, maybe the other person needs more space, one's uh, you know, early, one's late, right?
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_02: So now what I go on to say is what happy couples do is talk about it, you know, ideally with some humor and affection.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: Ideally, we get there, instead of trying to win and they find workarounds, right?
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: So the compatibility side of things is more built and negotiated rather than like found, right?
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: Now that doesn't mean that like let's let's do another because we could talk about this for hours because there's so many little nooks and crannies that like the applicable, non-applicable things that are now like let's say you're with a partner and they like they literally just don't want to leave the house.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like let's say they don't wanna like they they want to sit at home and they wanna either watch TV or play video games all the time and you come to them and you say, Hey, listen, like I'm okay, like you know, obviously as as I do my work, I need to be I need to let you be you.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: But this this dynamic in which you stay home all day, I I wanna be more outgoing, like I want to be doing things, and I want to have a partner to share that stuff with.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: That might not be rigid all the time, you need to do everything with me, but and let's say the partner says, I'm not interested in that.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: I the I this is the lifestyle that I want to do.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna sit home, I'm gonna play my video games, and it's reasonable to say I don't want that in my life, to where then you can decide whether or not you want to stay or leave, right?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: So it might not be that you always need to like like there's a gray area where it's not always compromise because you also don't want to compromise on what things that are really important to you and what you value.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: If you value being outgoing and traveling and doing things and whatever, and you're not rigid, and your partner's not gonna do that with you, and you want a partner that does, well, then you have a decision to make.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not speak to that for a minute, Grace.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have any thoughts on that?
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: What's what's bringing what this is bringing up for me is the willingness anchor that I talk about a lot.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you we both talk about the willingness anchor.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: I get this question what's the anchor?
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: What's one of the anchor thoughts I can return to with ROCD?
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't provide a lot of these because I think it can feed it sometimes, but the willingness anchor is a decent one.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: Is my partner willing?
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because here is what is happening 99% of the time.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'll just say with my clients, I would venture to say it's with most people with ROCD.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: They are trying to work out in they're trying to solve this, this quote, real, because I guess it's not quote, it is real relationship issue in their own mind.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: They're sitting here trying to think, is my partner can they change?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: Are they just gonna play video games all day?
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: How can I like passively let them know that I don't want them to do that?
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, they should just know to not do that.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: They are not sitting down and having the conversation you just said.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's not happening because I can tell you 99% of my clients, when they do have that conversation, their partner responds with, oof, you know, I'm sorry.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: I I do really love video games, but I care about you and I care about what you want.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: And they are willing.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: They're willing, right?
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: And you will never know if your partner is willing if you don't have that conversation.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it has to come from a place of, again, like like Alex said, objective truth.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: You for the past few weekends have stayed in.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: I want to go out.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about this.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: Not like you seem like a person who like making big judgments about the person to them.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's not gonna be how you want to have that.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm just I was smiling as you were talking, Alex, because I was like, I don't think I have a single client whose partner would be like, No, no, that's right.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm staying inside.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: Those people are not usually the our clients.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: No, they're not usually the partners of our clients.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly, exactly.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, and and I know you know this, but to make it really dramatic, like, and to to like maybe this leans into where we were talking about what what does what would be good reasons to actually say adios, you know?
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: Because Yeah, like what would be exactly right in the case where they're not willing to change, and that doesn't mean you're asking them to completely change who they are as a person, but if they're not willing to meet you where you're at and work together to find a balance to where it works for both of you in the relationship, if they are unwilling, then you have a real decision to make.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why willingness is such an anchor that I use.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to be very clear willingness is not, I'm gonna change this behavior right here, right now, and you're never gonna see it again.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because I can hear people's parts being like, well, how do I know if my partner's willing?
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: They say they are, but they're still playing video games every weekend.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't mean they're not willing.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: That means they might have an addictive thing going on.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: They might have a double moon-seeking thing.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: They might have a, do you know what I mean?
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't mean they're not willing.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: There still is willingness.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: If your partner says, Oh, I get it, hears you, and says, I'm willing, let me try.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't mean they're gonna change.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: It it's there's still willingness.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I just want to point that out for people's parts.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: We do have these impatient parts that have a lot of urgency and really want these issues to be fixed right away.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that is, I have so much conversation.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_02: And that's your own work too.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: And that's it.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: Because then you have to sit with the chaos inside of you and the anxiety around it not being a certain way and it not being the way that you you believe you need it to be.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_02: Because we're searching for a sense of security in that, right?
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: We don't feel like we can be at rest or be at peace until all of our ducks are in a row.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: And with OC, and with OCD, it's always searching for something that's wrong and attempt to solve it because it's trying to make sure that we feel okay.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: Because most of us, I would say all of us with ROCD, inside somewhere, we just don't feel okay.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: And and this will go counter to you know what a lot of popular like OCD work says.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: ROCD is a complex trauma problem.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_02: When when we're sitting with people like in the in our support groups and with our clients and stuff, they're telling us about all these things, what's going on inside of them, even before we get to the childhood stuff people that are riddled with shame and anxiety and doubt and lack of identity and no self-trust, that's complex trauma.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say, yeah, exactly.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's happening in in real time, and it's really it's just it's really hard and really painful.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's one of the hardest things ever.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, it's so hard because what it is, what it is, is it's you've entered a relationship with someone who's emotionally available, and it's triggered your whole system to where all that trauma is surfacing, and now you have to deal with it.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like I feel, and I'm not in the depths of ROCD, and I love my partner to pieces, and we have two beautiful children together, and we're our life is amazing.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_02: And when we're what I'm left with is the stuff, my stuff, which I'm no longer projecting onto my partner.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's the key, right?
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, exactly.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: You're still you still have your stuff, and now it's more clear.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: In doing this work, you will come, you will find you you when I say an inner clarity, I don't mean the answer.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't mean whether you're in the wrong or right relationship.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: Whether that's not the type of clarity I'm talking about.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: There is an inner clarity of like, oh, I know what it's like to be me.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: I know what my wounds are.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because I've investigated them.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: I know what it feels like to be blended with my parts, and I know what it feels like to be in self.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: That that is the type of clarity I'm talking about, where you rebuild your self-trust.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so when relationship problems come up, real problems, another one we didn't talk about, we we won't have time to get into, is like family stuff.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe your partner's family isn't treating you the way you want to be treated.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: And in my view, Alex, you tell me yours, I guess, but like in my view, it is part of your partner's responsibility to make sure their family's respecting you, right?
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: That is a real problem.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's there's so Alex and I could list a ton, and and you will be so equipped to handle them and to work through them together once you've really done all this inner work.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: Gosh, I mean, we could go on because we didn't even talk about what are reasons to leave.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: But uh, you know, so that'll have to be a little bit more than a little bit.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_02: We did a little bit.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: We did a little bit willingness one, you know.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, outside of physical abuse and emotional abuse and work with a therapist if you're unsure if you are being abused, right?
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's very, that's very, that is not something Alex and I talk about a lot, right?
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's because that's not our that's not what we're coaching.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: We're not coaching people who are being abused.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: That is, of course, a reason to leave if there's actual physical or emotional abuse, right?
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and a lack of willingness.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, there's nuances, but I think that the, I think that those are really the that's what I would say are the big things.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_02: Lack of empathy, no empathy, no accountability, and no willingness.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, those are things to look at for sure.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, you know, um, yeah, I hope this was I hope this was helpful.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: I know we we told some stories, we um we had an ad break, um, but I think yeah, we covered most of what I was thinking.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, hope it's helpful for everyone.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: So uh we'll see everyone in the next episode.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the uh this will be up today.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: You'll know because you'll be listening to it when you listen to it, but okay.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then uh the YouTube, the YouTube video that we talked about, uh ROCD or Intuition is going to be up as well.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're listening to this, it's likely that that's on YouTube.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I will link the YouTube uh uh our YouTube channel in the show notes.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_02: And uh hope everyone has a great day, and we'll see everybody in the next episode.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: Bye, everyone.