Latest / The Epstein Chronicles / Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed MCC Lieutenant (Part 3) (4/29/26)

Transcript

Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed MCC Lieutenant (Part 3) (4/29/26) · The Epstein Chronicles

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:03
  Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
• 0:06
  where he left off with the unnamed lieutenant from MCC
• 0:10
  and his interview with the OIG investigators. Question. We're going
• 0:16
  to follow up with some of those more lines of
• 0:18
  questioning later on in the interview. So you don't recall, though,
• 0:22
  receiving specific instructions from Captain redacted or anyone else with
• 0:27
  regard to Epstein. You do you know he needed one
• 0:31
  and you did not get the email? Answer? These come
• 0:35
  all the time. Any inmate comes off of Watch, they
• 0:37
  send it out. Question and should everyone know if someone
• 0:40
  comes off Watch that they are required to have a
• 0:43
  cell mate? Answer? I'm not sure. I mean that's what
• 0:46
  they do. They come out anyone comes off Suicide Watch,
• 0:49
  you put them in with the cell mate question. Yeah,
• 0:53
  and that's pretty general common knowledge, correct? And where do
• 0:56
  you learn that? Is that from your daily operations or
• 0:59
  do you learn that in training as well? Answer? I
• 1:02
  don't know. I guess it's daily operations. Question. Okay, but
• 1:05
  most people should know that a person coming off of
• 1:08
  Suicide Watch is required to have a cell mate answer.
• 1:12
  I mean it depends I don't know. I know we
• 1:14
  get these emails though they send them out. Anytime an
• 1:17
  inmate comes off, you try to put them with a
• 1:20
  cell mate. But then again, like I said, in the Shoe,
• 1:23
  it's you know, because even if they come off Suicide Watch,
• 1:26
  they don't say like they come off and stay in
• 1:29
  the shoe for a year, they have to have a
• 1:30
  cell mate for a year. You understand what I'm saying. So,
• 1:33
  as far as the notice we get, But does everyone
• 1:36
  know that, I'm not sure about that question? But you knew?
• 1:39
  Answer yeah, question how did you know though? Answer? I
• 1:43
  got the email. Question Okay, so your knowledge is from
• 1:46
  the email. But earlier you said that anybody in the
• 1:49
  shoe anyway needs to needs a cell mate. Answer yeah,
• 1:53
  question all right, So he had basically two requirements to them.
• 1:57
  One there was an email that he received, all though
• 2:00
  the fact that he was in the shoe and he
• 2:02
  didn't have any of those special requirements like he was
• 2:05
  going to harm someone else or something like that, that
• 2:08
  he should have a cell mate. Answer right, question all right?
• 2:12
  And do you know if you ever communicated that to anybody?
• 2:15
  When you visited the shoe in July or August of
• 2:18
  twenty nineteen answer, I'm not sure. Question like the people
• 2:23
  that worked in the shoe, would have you been as
• 2:27
  the activities lieutenant if you're doing around there, is that
• 2:30
  something that you would address? Answer? Bring up? Yeah, if
• 2:33
  he had a cell mate though, yeah, bring something up
• 2:37
  if they didn't. Question, So you'd only bring it up
• 2:40
  if you knew he didn't have one. Answer, So like
• 2:42
  if you say, hey, guys, how many single cells do
• 2:45
  we have? Such and such? Hey, what's going on? Hey? Well,
• 2:49
  this is the reason question? And is that something when
• 2:53
  you would visit the shoe? Is that something you would ask?
• 2:56
  How many single cells do you have? Answer? Yeah? Question
• 3:00
  is that like one of the check the box things?
• 3:02
  Does everybody that visits the shoe he gets cut off
• 3:05
  by the lieutenant. I can't speak for everybody, but I
• 3:08
  know even as oh, I see we said, hey, you
• 3:11
  know the fine we have single cells maneuver to condense
• 3:14
  it for space stuff like that question? Okay, answer So
• 3:19
  I don't know if anyone indiscernible into it. Question, but
• 3:23
  that's what you would do when you were activities lieutenant.
• 3:27
  Answer sometimes question okay, answer if I seen someone without Hey,
• 3:33
  what's going on with this? Dude, Well, he's housed in
• 3:35
  discernible room. Question but when you would visit the shoe,
• 3:41
  was that something that you would address saying how many
• 3:44
  single cells do we got? Answer? I'm not a shoe lieutenant. Question, Oh,
• 3:49
  only if you're the lieutenant. Answer, yeah, question I'm talking
• 3:54
  about when you do your rounds. Answer, you do the rounds.
• 3:57
  You only say it if you know that's some one
• 4:00
  someone new comes in. Okay, you got space for him. No,
• 4:03
  right now, we've got to put him in a single
• 4:05
  cell or something like that. Question Okay, And were you
• 4:09
  ever the shoe lieutenant answer at MCC? Question? Yeah, answer,
• 4:14
  I don't think so. I was never shoe lieutenant. Question okay,
• 4:17
  but do you remember ever having a conversation with anyone
• 4:20
  in the shoe at MCC about Epstein and his cellmate requirement? Answer? No,
• 4:28
  question No, all right. So, referring to the duty assignment roster,
• 4:32
  who are the MCC supervisors on duty with responsibility for
• 4:36
  overseeing the shoe on August ninth, twenty nineteen when you
• 4:40
  were working, Answer it would be me and redacted. Question
• 4:44
  so the two of you would be responsible answer on
• 4:48
  day watch? Yeah. Question okay, And then would it be
• 4:51
  the same thing for the shift after you. Would that
• 4:53
  be the activities lieutenant and the ops lieutenant answer yeah.
• 4:57
  Question and is that because when the shoe lieutenant is
• 5:00
  not there, activities lieutenant and Ops lieutenant always have oversight
• 5:04
  of the shoe. Answer well, I told you we have
• 5:07
  to make around in the shoe. Yeah. Question, but that
• 5:11
  would be the lieutenants, They would be the lieutenants that
• 5:14
  would have oversight over the shoe. Correct answer, yeah, pretty much.
• 5:18
  Question Okay, on August ninth, what communication did you have
• 5:22
  with any of the other lieutenants with regard to Epstein
• 5:26
  being housed with MCC or the MCC shoe can you recall? Answer? No?
• 5:31
  Question And again, thinking back, this is like one of
• 5:35
  the biggest things that's ever happened when you were there,
• 5:38
  this guy dies. Can you remember any conversations you had
• 5:41
  the day before with anyone with regard to Epstein? Answer?
• 5:46
  I just know that he used to come to the
• 5:47
  legal all the time, attorney conference pretty much the whole day,
• 5:51
  and that's about it. Question And what about the time
• 5:55
  he would be moved from the attorney conference? Answer early,
• 5:58
  like probably eight in the morning. Question and who would
• 6:02
  be the person that would move them. Answer the shoe staff,
• 6:05
  get them out of the shoe. Question okay, answer he
• 6:09
  was in the shoe. Question as the activities lieutenant, did
• 6:13
  you visit him at all in the attorney conference or
• 6:16
  check on him? Is that part of your round process? Answer?
• 6:20
  It's not part of the rounds. But if you see
• 6:22
  him in there, if you're standing by the elevators or
• 6:24
  something like that. Yeah question okay answer, but you're not.
• 6:28
  You don't have to check. No question, all right. Did
• 6:31
  anyone ever provide you with special instructions with regards to Epstein?
• 6:35
  Answer special instructions? Question yeah, answer like something No, with
• 6:42
  special instructions like he gets cut off by the investigator,
• 6:47
  like conversations with Epstein. Hey, make sure you do this
• 6:50
  just Epstein. Make sure this is going you know, I
• 6:53
  guess specific instructions. Maybe special isn't the right word. Answer
• 6:58
  no question. But did anyone ever specifically say, you know,
• 7:01
  this is Epstein, We've got to make sure we're doing this.
• 7:05
  Answer No, not that I recall question No, did any
• 7:09
  lieutenants ever talk to you about Epstein's requirement to have
• 7:11
  a cell mate? Answer? I mean it's not like I said,
• 7:15
  we got the email. There's no one saying, Hey, by
• 7:17
  the way, from my understanding, didn't you have a cell
• 7:20
  mate up until this? I think he had a cell
• 7:23
  mate since he got out of the suicide watch, so
• 7:26
  I don't think there was a lapse in it. Question.
• 7:31
  So what about up until then? You're saying, what is
• 7:34
  your understanding of what happened? Answer? What happened his cellmate
• 7:39
  went to court and either went to transfer or got
• 7:41
  released or something and never came back. And then you
• 7:44
  know that night he went out, he went without a
• 7:47
  cell mate. Question. So we'll get into that. I'll ask
• 7:52
  you a couple more questions then, just to make sure
• 7:55
  that we stay kind of on page at the bottom
• 7:57
  of this page, you see, we're going to start talking
• 8:00
  about that inmate, and I'll just what you knew about that.
• 8:03
  You said lieutenants are responsible for conducting rounds. Are there
• 8:06
  responsible for conducting counts in the shoe? Answer no question No,
• 8:11
  so like just around nothing to do with the counts. Answer.
• 8:15
  Count is for officers. Question okay, and you don't need
• 8:19
  to oversee them as a lieutenant or anything like that.
• 8:22
  Answer You could take account, but usually you're doing patrol,
• 8:26
  you're not doing the count with the officers. Question right,
• 8:30
  so in physically presence in the shoe the only time
• 8:33
  that the lieutenant is involved, and actually with rounds, not
• 8:36
  with counts. Answer not with counts. Question okay? And did
• 8:40
  you conduct any rounds in the shoe on August ninth,
• 8:43
  twenty nineteen. Question you don't remember? Again, you're placing yourself
• 8:49
  back on one of the biggest incidences and you know
• 8:52
  all this circus that's been going on since that time.
• 8:55
  Answer yeah, I know. Question, So you can't really put
• 8:58
  yourself back to that day, like, Hey, what was my
• 9:01
  involvement with this? And did I he gets cut off
• 9:04
  by the lieutenant. No, I had no involvement with this. Question.
• 9:09
  Well that's what I mean. But you you were the
• 9:12
  activities lieutenant, you know, on the you know, the day
• 9:14
  before and specifically, like you said, on the day before
• 9:19
  when his cellmate was removed. So you can't remember? Answer
• 9:24
  if I did a round? No question okay, So you can't.
• 9:28
  Then do you remember having any conversation with any of
• 9:31
  the people listed in there on your shift in the
• 9:33
  shoe on that date, specifically with regard to Epstein or
• 9:37
  redacted his cellmate? Answer no, question all right, and it'll
• 9:42
  be like a redacted, Michael Thomas tovin oell redacted, redacted
• 9:46
  or redacted none of those people. Answer no. Question. Okay,
• 9:50
  so you didn't speak to any of those people about
• 9:53
  Epstein being required to have a cell mate since his
• 9:56
  cellmate was gone. Answer you were talking about that day?
• 10:00
  Question Yeah, on that day? Answer I can't remember. Question okay,
• 10:06
  all right. The people that are in the shoe are
• 10:09
  there responsible for conducting rounds and counts during their shift? Answer? Yeah.
• 10:14
  Question as far as the shift that you worked on
• 10:16
  day watch, what's your understanding of how many rounds and
• 10:19
  counts they should have done? Answer? There's no counts on
• 10:23
  day watch. Question okay, what about the rounds? Answer the
• 10:27
  rounds you're doing a certain shift? We go about so
• 10:31
  you do one, say like eight a thirty, you do
• 10:34
  one a thirty to nine, you do one. Question so
• 10:37
  every thirty minutes. Answer every thirty minutes, not to exceed
• 10:41
  forty minutes. They're regular rounds. Question Okay, and you're supposed
• 10:46
  to do one of those rounds with them, but you
• 10:48
  can't recall whether you did or not. Answer No, we're
• 10:51
  supposed to do rounds with them. No question. You're supposed
• 10:55
  to just do a round on your own. Answer yeah,
• 10:58
  question okay, answer to our round in the shoe? Question
• 11:05
  and can you recall if you did your round in
• 11:07
  the shoe? Answer? No, I can't. Question. You can't recall
• 11:11
  would it be abnormal if you didn't answer? I can't recall.
• 11:14
  Question You can't recall if it would be abnormal if
• 11:17
  you didn't answer? If I didn't do the round? Question
• 11:21
  right answer? Would it be abnormal? I mean I'm not
• 11:24
  the shoe lieutenant, That's what I'm saying. Question, But there's
• 11:28
  no shoe lieutenant. You said you know you or redacted
• 11:31
  would be responsible, So I'm saying, would it be abnormal
• 11:34
  if you didn't do it? So? Would it be normally
• 11:38
  have been done? I know you said that you're responsible
• 11:40
  for it. Answer No, the lieutenants are responsible. But if
• 11:44
  a Monday through Friday, if a shoe lieutenants there, there's
• 11:47
  no reason for me to go up there. Question but
• 11:50
  there is no shoe lieutenant. Answer right, So, but I
• 11:53
  don't recall if I did a round or not? Question? Okay,
• 11:58
  But the last question wasn't that saying wouldn't it have
• 12:01
  been abnormal if you didn't do one? I know you
• 12:03
  can't recall. Answer. Yeah, question, but should you normally have
• 12:07
  done it if there's no shoe, lieutenant answer yeah, question yeah, so,
• 12:13
  knowing yourself, you probably he gets cut off by the
• 12:16
  lieutenant if there's no shoe, lieutenant. Yeah, question, Okay, answer Okay.
• 12:23
  All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here, and
• 12:25
  then the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna
• 12:27
  pick up where we left off. All the information that
• 12:30
  goes with this episode can be found in the description box.