Latest / World Ablaze with George Fontes / 11 - THE WORLD OF PODCASTING WITH MANUEL FONTES

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11 - THE WORLD OF PODCASTING WITH MANUEL FONTES · World Ablaze with George Fontes

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  hello hello hello welcome welcome world ablaze listeners um today we're gonna do something a
• 0:59
  little different, a little away from the norm. I usually do a lot of news politics. I do a lot
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  with society, but I want to try to get into doing more interviews and interviewing people who are,
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  I would consider maybe, I don't know, professionals in the field as in they know exactly what they're
• 1:17
  doing. They're a little unique and or have really unique insights into a particular topic.
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  and today he's been on the show before i have my brother manual fonts who has a few podcasts uh
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  his flagship the most notable at the moment will be the stretch goose podcast and i encourage all
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  of you to listen to that it is stretch goose podcast stretch goose spelled as one word and
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  you can hear that pretty much everywhere honestly uh was tracking what was it i believe top 100 on
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  good pods for a while and is currently only 30 downloads away from 3000. And I got to say that's
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  a little bit skewed because I've been doing it for quite a while and has basically tweaked and
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  rebooted the show many times. So those numbers are a bit skewed, but ever since he decided to
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  settle on a format and say, you know, I'm just going to fucking go for this. It's been tracking,
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  getting results. So we're going to pick manuals brain a bit on the podcasting world.
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  uh since every one of you are listening to this podcast you obviously have some interest in it and
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  it is a very very large medium today especially when it comes to information very few people are
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  watching the news as they used to and they're getting a lot of information from actual direct
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  interviews from reputable sources so with that being said let's welcome manual fonts to the
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  world of blaze podcast hello again hello hello again i feel like i just saw you i know because
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  i had i had you for an hour and 40 minutes on the other one right it was about a week or not even a
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  week shit yeah not that long ago um and and you're right those those numbers are skewed because
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  i i do have three or four different versions uh that those a lot of those downloads aren't recorded
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  because i switched platforms or you know switch different different um host hosting platforms is
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  what you call it there you go so i mean i'm sure those numbers are a little higher but the last year
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  of actual seriousness is where the those 2 000 downloads come from the out of the 29 70 that i
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  currently am on so that's that i mean for whatever that's worth anyway right so let's let's dive i
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  want to dive in. I don't think we talk too much about this. Let's dive into the podcasting world
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  as far as you're concerned. Let's tell everybody, when exactly did you get started? 2016, officially.
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  16. And was it Stretch Goose back then, or what were you doing?
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  It was Stretch Goose podcast. And then a month into that, I decided to do another one
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  based off of my rants so it became complaints and grievances and then i released stretch goose
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  sports and then i did stretch goose reviews everything so that was about all in 2016 2017
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  about four or five of those things were uh was each one of those on a different podcasting hosting
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  all of them were
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  I think it was all on
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  Podbean I think I had one on Anchor
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  and then I ported it back to Podbean
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  so I've never really gone past those two platforms really
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  but each time did you relaunch the show itself?
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  the only show that's still moving is Stretch Goose
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  the other ones basically were killed
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  so they were they were labeled as like stretch goose sports stretch because i had this weird
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  vision of making a stretch goose enterprise so it was like everything that was under the banner
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  so i was thinking stretch goose sports stretch goose the regular stretch goose reviews everything
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  stretch goose complaints and grievances it was it was going to be a whole thing and then i was
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  gonna i was really thinking about a network and then adding people to it adding other talent to
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  it but then i learned pretty quickly within that first year it's about building one before you
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  build the others and then you swing the bat a few times on how you want to do it now what what
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  formula works for you essentially right i i mean i'm obviously way newer to this and uh
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  my first experiences were actually on your show so the thing i found and something you brought up
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  was something that needs to be said more.
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  I see a lot of podcasters.
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  I mean, look, it's almost become an oversaturated medium.
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  But I find that most people, they crash and burn really quick
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  because they don't have the patience to stick to putting out a quality product
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  or even trying to be consistent.
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  And for some of us, it's hard.
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  You know, we have full-time jobs.
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  I know you do.
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  I have a full-time company and job.
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  um many other people have full-time jobs and they do all this on the side what what if what have you
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  what what do you have to say in terms of how do you how do you keep motivated and and and what
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  what should other people do to stay motivated on track because i found that even with any business
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  like we can call it a business if you want to it's really a hobby but it could be a business
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  but well you you do have to treat it as a business right well in some sense what i was gonna say is
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  it's really about longevity, right?
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  Like you got to be consistent and you got to have product out there for people to basically
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  consume.
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  Yeah.
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  So what do you, what do you say to people and how they get over that hurdle?
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  Well, the, the consistency is really what I'll say like, all right, I'll say it like
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  this.
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  If you really want to do it, you'll do it.
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  I mean, I know there's a lot of people that flirt with the idea and flirt with the, the,
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  the possibility of some mythical fame that might come from this but this has to be one of those
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  passion projects that you have to like you have to really want to do it this is how the best way
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  i can say to say that and it's in a lot of people will come into this thinking about instant fame
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  and then they find out that no one gives a shit about their three episodes and then they start to
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  go into the tank because then it gets in their head and so this is a grind this is something that
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  you have to want to be a part of and it has to be that passion for you have to have that burning
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  desire to actually want to sit here and if you're by yourself you are the editor you are the engineer
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  you are the voice you are the writer so you have to really be locked in to producing that and like
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  i said a lot of people aren't don't have that patience like you're saying and the motivational
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  side of it is is just is just that satisfaction of putting something out completing something
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  getting it on getting it out into the world you say in the end that um you have to decide that
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  you're doing this or realize you're doing this because you're doing it for yourself it is for
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  yourself right yeah i think you're right some people lose lose sight of it and they do want
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  the instant fame, the instant fortune that might come with podcasting or any kind of art form,
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  but they're not understanding that it's really something that is done because it's in you and
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  you want to do it. I agree with you. A lot of people jump on the bandwagon of podcasts and
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  thinking there just could be an instant celebrity. An instant hit. It's like if you're a band too,
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  you play your clubs, you got to put the grind in. If you don't do that, you don't expect to walk out
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  there with a hit single on day one no and even in bands i mean just just even one hit single
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  doesn't guarantee you longevity and success i mean you have to you have to build your catalog
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  yeah um and that's why i was kind of asking you know how you felt about things and how you would
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  motivate others i mean you just said how you what someone should do but you know dropping out early
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  is not not the way to go correct it's it's putting out content now are you finding not not not just
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  putting out content though what about consistency i mean what is let me back up actually what is
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  more valuable having a thousand shows i mean episodes for example or being consistent in how
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  you deliver that content you have to be it has to be the it doesn't there's not it's not about
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  the quantity it is always about the quality of the content so you you have to it you even if you
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  release once a week that's fine you know whatever you are able to do but that thing has to be 100%
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  nailed locked in finished because people aren't going to listen to your you know
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  bullshit if it has no realism to it or if it has no um like it's poor poorly written I guess like
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  story of sorts if you write like shit especially i can i know i i have a hard time answering this
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  very question because it's like you're just trying to grab the right words because i mean you could
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  you can put out a thousand episodes and five of them you know are okay is this the word you're
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  reaching for substance the why you see you he's the thesaurus but he's that thesaurus people
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  no not really well i'm not putting words in your mouth i feel that's what you're trying to get as
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  like yeah there's too many people that put shows out just because they want to put it out and they
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  want to put a thousand episodes out but the actual substance and everything that goes i mean is very
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  poor quality yeah and in truth you're you really aren't you think you're competing against everybody
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  but you're really only competing as yourself i actually i i'm happy you said that because
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  you know that's a really good point
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  I think people do
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  get in their head they're competing but
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  you're not going to win the Joe Rogan battle
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  no
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  everybody thinks that
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  oh well and I say everybody
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  because I've joined the
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  social medias which is something I fucking never do
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  and I've been on it for less than
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  six months and it ain't hard
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  to get 140 followers in six months
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  just by playing
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  with the algorithm so that's like
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  a cheap way of getting ahead
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  But then when you read the stories of a lot of these podcasters that are on there trying to pump their shit,
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  when they write down in their bio who they are, they compare their podcast to a famous person.
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  You're already setting the bar of failure.
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  Right.
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  You just got, your podcast does not have the budget.
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  Your podcast doesn't have the ability.
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  You know, and Joe Rogan has a $100 million deal.
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  Every time he turns that thing on, it's at least $9 to $10 million are listening that week.
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  Yeah, exactly.
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  You're never going to hit that number
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  unless you put the real work in.
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  So that's just...
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  That's the best way I can...
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  I mean, yeah.
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  No, agreed.
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  Everybody has delusions of grandeur, right?
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  Yeah, you're competing...
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  Your only competition is you.
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  And that's about...
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  You have to...
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  You have...
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  I mean...
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  You have to beat what...
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  you have to beat what you did last week is kind of a better way of saying it.
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  So it's about, it's almost a lesson in self-improvement, right?
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  And teaching yourself that you can actually complete something.
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  And then once you do that you feel satisfied and you want more of that Is there something to be said about being able to I mean with this medium I find you can actually say more than you usually can
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  when you're talking to a group of people out in the world, for example, you know, like you're out
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  with your buddies, usually some conversations and some things that you really want to say,
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  you almost want to hold back. And I find that with the podcasting, you can let loose a bit
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  because it's just you and the microphone, right?
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  There's no one there to slap you.
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  Well, there's that and there's,
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  I don't think there's any inhibitions
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  in terms of, oh, I should hold back
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  because I don't want to offend this person
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  or I don't want to get in this long,
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  drawn out argument over something
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  that I didn't intend to make an argument.
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  I just want to get my point across.
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  And in podcasting, it seems that that's out the window.
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  I mean, especially when you're doing the solo thing, right?
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  It's just you, the microphone,
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  and then you can release it out into the ether, as they say.
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  and if people listen great but there is a buffer of you know if someone disagrees with you they
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  want to call you an idiot or whatever they want to do they can't yell in your face um now is that
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  a good thing i mean what i guess i'm trying to do you do you find that that might over inflate
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  some people's egos because they don't always get that check yeah you know like that like you said
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  like a slap in the face.
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  Podcasting takes away your fear.
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  Yeah.
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  And sometimes it's bad because I've heard a lot of shows where these guys
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  just say shit to say shit.
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  Nothing.
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  There's no substance.
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  Nothing's backing it up.
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  It's just straight attacking for an hour.
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  And then they'll get like some feedback,
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  but it's like,
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  they don't really have to read the negativity.
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  They can just go right back to calling that guy names.
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  But then again,
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  the audience wins out because they stopped listening.
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  So I guess there's a give and take on that.
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  Yeah. There's always a chance of losing the audience. Um, so what, what do you think
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  someone should do to keep their ego in check when it comes to the podcasting world? Because
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  I think you're absolutely right. I I've heard a lot of podcasts. Now listen, I listen to the big
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  ones like you do. Everybody does. Right. And we can, if, if you, what you should be doing outside
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  of, you know, getting entertained and whatever satisfaction you get from, let's say, listening
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  to a Joe Rogan or, you know, whatever you listen to, um, you should also be paying attention to
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  what makes them better and taking notes and trying to improve yourself. But for those people who
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  tend to lose sight, as you said, they don't have fear anymore because there's no one there to
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  oppose them. Right. And then their egos get overinflated, which leads to a bad product or
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  a very toxic product so what can you say someone should do in this podcast training that keeps their
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  ego in check honestly i have no i that's a question that that's very hard to answer is
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  that just a matter of someone's personality yeah i mean if if they're a dick they're going to stay
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  a dick with no one in front of them i mean you're not wrong you're not wrong the question of keeping
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  people in check i mean i'm over here on the west coast and some dude in china calls me an asshole
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  what am i gonna i mean i'm still gonna be the asshole he's not gonna stop me
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  you're never gonna that no one's gonna stay in check on that that's it's not possible
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  you know and the only thing that's gonna check them is the audience if they don't like it they
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  won't listen they won't get the feedback they won't get the downloads they won't get the
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  likes subscribes and then eventually they'll run out of motivation it's the same thing when you're
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  watching tv and shit you know that no ratings no show true you know but especially for those who
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  are egotistical they're absolutely i mean here's the best egotistical show that got canceled maybe
• 16:47
  because of the strike but when all the late night guys went on and did a podcast together the fast
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  force five or the fuck that was i honestly don't even recall that well they had the writer's strike
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  and on the late night hosts
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  I thought were comedians that write jokes
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  but I guess they don't.
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  They have writers that do the jokes.
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  So they didn't have anything
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  so there was a work stoppage.
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  So they had to put out a podcast.
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  All five of them were on there.
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  Strike Force 5 on Spotify.
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  I never knew.
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  It's a pile of...
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  It sucks.
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  Because you realize how much talent they don't have.
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  Okay.
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  So it lasted I think five episodes.
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  Nobody listened to that shit.
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  and it just went away.
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  And these are famous comedians.
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  So, I mean, the audience will always win.
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  So is this an example of your ego getting in the way of the product?
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  Yes, because here you have people that have late-night shows,
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  and they have big egos.
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  They talk a lot of shit, and they're like,
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  oh, my name will get people to listen to this.
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  Strike force, whatever the fuck.
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  And nobody did.
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  So, I mean, the audience will always win.
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  and that's something you gotta keep in mind when you're doing this is the audience is going to
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  uh you know they're gonna win you know they like it they'll hear it if they hate it they won't
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  and it's up to you to to put you know so like when you kind of go off a little bit i guess but
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  so when you put out an episode and you get some feedback about this particular part in a good
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  way take that part and make that part of the next episode and then if you another good thing take
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  that part of that episode now you got two good things running in one episode and you just keep
• 18:30
  building on that and anything that's negative you try to not include it's kind of the audience
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  shaping what shaping your show i guess well that you know that's the thing and at what point does
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  your show become just what your audience wants you to do and then you're you become basically
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  a slave to the audience.
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  Right, but
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  sometimes
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  I found throughout the journey
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  obviously there's an
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  episode right now for this run
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  for the life of me, I don't know why it has
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  almost 500 downloads.
• 19:04
  All I did, I
• 19:06
  just talked about
• 19:08
  fucking
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  debit cards getting stolen
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  in California and I guess
• 19:16
  either that's a big thing
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  or was the title or what,
• 19:20
  but that seems to be a very positive episode.
• 19:24
  Like there are some episodes
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  where you're just like,
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  I don't know what the fuck it is,
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  but apparently you like that.
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  You know?
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  Right.
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  I mean.
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  So I'll get past this eagle thing,
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  but.
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  I understand.
• 19:34
  Well, see, I know this is,
• 19:35
  this, I don't know.
• 19:36
  It's just my opinions aren't.
• 19:38
  Well, I'm asking you.
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  You're here.
• 19:40
  I know.
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  We want to hear your views on this.
• 19:42
  You're the guest here,
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  but what I meant by getting past the eagle thing is,
• 19:46
  I believe we addressed it and I'm agreeing with everything you're saying. It's kind of hard to
• 19:53
  keep the ego in check when you have no one there to check you, especially when you're doing a solo
• 19:56
  podcast. I also think that most people that have these egos are also very much narcissistic and,
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  you know, they just want to hear themselves. They want to feel like they're above everybody and also
• 20:08
  they know more than everybody. So maybe just not just checking your ego. It'd be more about,
• 20:15
  you know maybe you also just have to stay an open-minded individual not just be closed off to
• 20:19
  just you know what you know in your own bubble get out of your get out of your bubble and maybe
• 20:24
  do some more reading and research and you know look for opposing viewpoints do you think a lot
• 20:29
  of people are afraid to do that because they don't want to be challenged or sound bad or make a
• 20:34
  mistake well yeah they don't want to have a lot of them don't want guests with them because they
• 20:40
  don't want to a lot of them don't want to be challenged knowledge knowledge wins out too so
• 20:46
  if you don't know anything you're going to sound dumb you'll end up losing yeah very true the only
• 20:52
  way to get better is to is to educate yourself and whatever like if your podcast is about bicycles
• 20:58
  you better know every goddamn thing about a bicycle basically kind of what i'm saying so
• 21:03
  that and not be afraid to admit your wrongs and mistakes i believe and that's another thing too
• 21:07
  none of them want to be wrong and there's no progress there well let's let's flip let's flip
• 21:12
  this let's get this away from the host side of it because let's say let's say you're genuinely
• 21:19
  trying to be a good podcaster which most of us i think the majority of us want to be
• 21:25
  and you're not trying to be egotistical you're trying to learn you're trying to be objective and
• 21:30
  and you're really going out your way to find opposing viewpoints and hopefully learn and grow
• 21:33
  but what about those guests who want to cherry pick and only want to go on shows that are i mean
• 21:41
  everybody wants to be seen in a good light and and i don't think anyone's here to make a guest look
• 21:45
  bad but they're really all about i don't know if it's a fit because xyz and a lot of times what i'm
• 21:53
  finding is it comes down to maybe your political views um whatever your view is on a certain topic
• 22:00
  let's just i'm not saying this is what we're talking about but let's say abortion just because
• 22:04
  it's such a hot topic everyone has it's either you know it's either one way or the other right
• 22:07
  it's not too much in between on that one right they're still afraid to be challenged and be on
• 22:12
  the show but i think that's a mistake because if you if you are a guest who's trying to build your
• 22:18
  career on being um on being someone who's who's who's considered an expert in a field right i mean
• 22:26
  they're trying to use a platform to build their name.
• 22:30
  Do you think it's also a mistake for them not to go on shows
• 22:33
  and be interviewed by people who may not see everything the same way they do?
• 22:38
  Yeah, if you want to move up, you better play the game, yeah.
• 22:44
  I would think that if you want to get your name out there
• 22:49
  and you want to build your brand, your audience, whatever,
• 22:52
  if you get an invite, you better take the invite to turn it down
• 22:56
  because you guys have a difference of opinion
• 22:59
  or your show is five downloads less than this show,
• 23:03
  I mean, that's kind of a short-sighted way of looking at it.
• 23:08
  I think everything is positive.
• 23:10
  If you go in, you make it look good for you,
• 23:14
  people will remember you, and then you'll be on the next one.
• 23:16
  And the next one, eventually, you'll get on stuff that matters,
• 23:19
  I guess, a little bit more to what you believe in.
• 23:22
  But I think it's best to put your ass out there
• 23:24
  than to sit there and stay home and go,
• 23:27
  no, I don't want this podcast,
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  or I don't want this podcast,
• 23:30
  because this guy's only got an audience of two,
• 23:34
  and this guy's got an audience of 10.
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  I'll just take the 10 over the two,
• 23:37
  but the two, that guy might have something.
• 23:40
  You just don't know.
• 23:41
  Get out there,
• 23:42
  because my audience,
• 23:45
  last time I looked at it,
• 23:46
  was I think 20, subscriber-wise,
• 23:50
  20 guys, I think,
• 23:51
  last time I looked.
• 23:52
  but i have more downloads than subscribers so somebody's listening so if and i find that not
• 24:00
  everybody always subscribes that you know yeah not everybody hits the button to get the notification
• 24:05
  and and with many of many of the apps we have spotify apple whatever it's gonna it's gonna try
• 24:11
  to predict your listening habits anyway so whether you subscribe or not let's say they listen to
• 24:16
  stretch goose and they don't subscribe but then they go through your catalog and they listen to
• 24:22
  another episode so let's say they listen to two or three and they're not subscribers the next time
• 24:26
  they go on to that app apple's gonna go hey you've been listening to this here's a featured episode
• 24:32
  or here's what's new so they're gonna get that feed anyway without them actually hitting the
• 24:35
  subscribe button yeah so so the numbers are again like kind of like when we started with the show
• 24:40
  with numbers are skewed that's one example of skewed numbers right um now going back to the
• 24:45
  guests though i think it's also the host response i'm sure you may feel the same way um because
• 24:51
  you're not a vindictive evil type of person but the host should it's also the host responsibility
• 24:57
  to do a little research on the guest right and also not be a dick as in going out of your way
• 25:04
  to make this person look bad right you you should have a respectful conversation and
• 25:11
  i have you found that to be an issue with many new podcasters or the podcasters who are wondering
• 25:18
  why they're not growing. I've heard some where it seems like their whole shtick is literally
• 25:24
  trying to make the person on the other end look bad and look stupid. What do you say to that?
• 25:33
  If I'm having a guest on, I would do about a week on it. I would try to learn as much as I can
• 25:41
  and ask questions based around that. So that way I look a little smarter. Not to go on their
• 25:47
  blind and have just a free because you basically offending the guest because it like oh let say I promoting a book but you didn read my book I mean that kind of a dick move Wouldn you read the book So we can go through some of these chapters or some shit like that
• 26:08
  You know, doing your homework is key.
• 26:10
  You know, you want to know everything.
• 26:14
  I mean, you can do some deep cut background stuff, too, if you find it and trip them out.
• 26:18
  Like, oh, you know that?
• 26:19
  I mean, that might bring in, you know, a friendship, which then leads to other things.
• 26:25
  You know, it's a network, anyway, to build on.
• 26:27
  And also treating a guest properly leads to a better overall product, right?
• 26:35
  A better podcast.
• 26:36
  And if others listen to you with the guest and it's a good, positive experience,
• 26:42
  more guests are going to be wanting to be a guest on your show.
• 26:46
  They'll be inclined to play, yeah.
• 26:48
  If you do it right and then you get a reputation of being good, they will come to you.
• 26:53
  so what I'm hearing from your perspective
• 26:56
  in the podcast world everything
• 26:58
  is don't be afraid to put
• 27:00
  the work in stay
• 27:02
  consistent and don't be a dick
• 27:04
  basically
• 27:06
  I mean
• 27:10
  this last run that I've been on right
• 27:14
  now I have been less inclined
• 27:16
  to do to try
• 27:18
  to do guests or any type of deep stuff
• 27:20
  because more for me it's a time issue
• 27:22
  you know but when i did you know yeah you the stuff i said is kind of where it goes you know
• 27:29
  you try to try to be as consistent as possible you try to learn you know as much about whoever's
• 27:36
  coming on um and ask questions that make sense don't just ask like what's your favorite color
• 27:41
  because who gives a fuck you know so what's your favorite color that's a dick move um
• 27:47
  uh well blue i guess fuck i don't know um just you know that boy that's a derail okay
• 27:57
  well so let's let's talk about let's talk about numbers look you're 30 away from 3 000 and i think
• 28:08
  everybody that listens to my show your show and whatever other shows that our listeners listen to
• 28:15
  need to put the word out and let's help you get to 3000. I mean, it's only 30 away. That's not a lot.
• 28:21
  I mean, that could be like a weekend's worth of people's listening or even like a one or two days
• 28:26
  of people listening on their way to work, you know, or in between their lunch breaks. So I'd
• 28:32
  like to see you to get to 3000 and, you know, it's been a long time coming because you've,
• 28:36
  you've had to retune your show more than once. So it's not, it's not like, I mean, you're probably
• 28:41
  way over 3,000 at this point, to be honest, but it just
• 28:43
  hasn't been recorded on this particular
• 28:45
  show, right? On Stretch Goose
• 28:47
  podcast, correct? Yeah, I mean, if I had
• 28:49
  to... all these
• 28:51
  fits and starts, I mean, if I add it all
• 28:53
  up, I'm probably
• 28:54
  conservatively approaching 5,000.
• 28:58
  That's kind of how
• 28:59
  I feel. Yeah, I feel that's probably
• 29:01
  about where you're at at the moment. But again, it's...
• 29:03
  I mean, if we're talking
• 29:04
  statistical stuff, a lot of
• 29:07
  that shit, I don't even buy to begin
• 29:09
  with. Yeah. I wanted to dive into that with you because I know you have a lot of opinions about it
• 29:14
  and, uh, you said something very, I've always said this and I think you, you said it earlier
• 29:19
  right now today on the show, something about treating the podcast like a business, right?
• 29:26
  A lot of people wonder, why am I not growing? Why, why is my audience not getting bigger?
• 29:31
  And a lot of people have the idea of, I want to make this my job and I want to monetize this
• 29:36
  and make an income,
• 29:38
  what do you have to say to people
• 29:40
  who don't understand that
• 29:42
  if you want to make an income on something,
• 29:46
  you have to actually treat it like a business?
• 29:50
  You just answered your own goddamn question.
• 29:53
  I mean, maybe, but you have insight on this.
• 29:58
  I mean, you started in 2016,
• 30:00
  so I'm sure along the way you could definitely expand on this, right?
• 30:03
  I mean, I'm trying to be very general.
• 30:05
  I want to open the floor to you.
• 30:06
  on this because you've been doing this a long time and uh you've taken from what i've seen you've
• 30:11
  taken the opposite approach of many other people you're trying to do the organic slow growth
• 30:15
  consistent because you're trying to put out quality over quantity you're not trying to rush
• 30:20
  things and a lot of people try to rush things and they burn out and they don't understand that
• 30:28
  you have to treat this like a business as in you have to put the time you know you said it earlier
• 30:35
  you have to make sure your quality of product is good and that's not just the content i mean the
• 30:40
  content is extremely important because if you don't have anything valid to say or you don't
• 30:44
  have anything anyone wants to listen to they're not gonna listen to you but also when it comes to
• 30:48
  the quality of the production i think a lot of people fall short on that but i just want to give
• 30:53
  you the opportunity to understand on the business aspect everything from think from what your
• 30:57
  thoughts are on monetization advertising uh production you know microphones all that crap
• 31:02
  what do you think what do you have to say to someone getting into it it doesn't cost that
• 31:08
  fucking much don't listen to all the hype about this it really doesn't i was doing it with a usb
• 31:14
  mic stuck to a 300 computer and uh and i even gone through the app on the phone for the first year
• 31:21
  and the kind of quality sound wise you know a little below average but it was clear it was loud
• 31:28
  you can hear it i mean and that was less than 150 bucks total but you know when you're you know
• 31:36
  you're playing you know paying the the hosting fee the usb mic you know you can get them back then
• 31:43
  80 bucks whatever but you can get them now for maybe 25 dollars you know so as far as how much
• 31:50
  does it cost is it's all horseshit when you all these guys that are on social media or on youtube
• 31:56
  talking about the cost of this stuff.
• 31:58
  90% of what you hear is bullshit.
• 32:02
  You know, you don't need a boom arm.
• 32:04
  You don't need a fucking super duper mixer.
• 32:07
  You know, a little small, you know, single channel.
• 32:11
  If it's just you, just plug one mic in.
• 32:13
  If you want to get a mixer, if not,
• 32:14
  straight into the fucking computer.
• 32:17
  And it's really cheap to start.
• 32:19
  Now, if you want to start getting crazy with it,
• 32:22
  you know, if you have the means to,
• 32:25
  or just for the fuck of it,
• 32:27
  yeah, you can go with the arms
• 32:28
  and the bigger mics and stuff
• 32:30
  and sound a little bit better
• 32:32
  or excellent
• 32:33
  depending on what tier.
• 32:35
  But as far as cost,
• 32:37
  that's all horseshit.
• 32:37
  So cost of entry isn't high.
• 32:39
  No, it's not.
• 32:40
  Unless you're me.
• 32:41
  I'll just blow money on it.
• 32:42
  Yeah, well,
• 32:43
  that's because you,
• 32:45
  you know,
• 32:46
  million dollar host over here.
• 32:48
  Yeah, right.
• 32:50
  No, but yeah,
• 32:52
  I agree.
• 32:52
  It's not that expensive.
• 32:53
  It's really not.
• 32:54
  And even a good quality mic these days doesn't cost that much.
• 32:58
  And I think that to start, it really, like you said it, what do you want to achieve?
• 33:07
  If you just want your voice on there.
• 33:09
  Plug your ass into the cell phone.
• 33:11
  Yeah.
• 33:11
  And even if you get a cheap little mixer, most of them have USB on them and they'll mix everything down to a two track, right?
• 33:18
  So you just got to like pretty much live mix your show on the mixer.
• 33:21
  you can go to audacity for free and you're you got to record that's that's true the software is free
• 33:27
  90 of the software out there is open source and free so there's no true there's no fucking reason
• 33:33
  to go spend two three hundred dollars on engineering software well no there isn't um i mean you got to
• 33:39
  be i don't know i i can't speak i i have a different perspective based on just my personality
• 33:44
  that's well you're asking about cost and start so that's kind of i mean no you're correct i'm not
• 33:49
  disagreeing with you whatsoever.
• 33:50
  So at what point do you think...
• 33:53
  So the only...
• 33:54
  Well, let me back up.
• 33:55
  It seems like the only real
• 33:56
  consistent cost is your hosting, correct?
• 33:58
  Yeah, you have to pay someone.
• 33:59
  There are some free hosting programs,
• 34:02
  but are they not also limited by hours
• 34:04
  or how many you can put out?
• 34:06
  Well, there are some that do it for free,
• 34:09
  but they don't provide
• 34:11
  the deep dive analytics type stuff
• 34:15
  or they don't do video.
• 34:17
  I don't know if you're into video,
• 34:18
  but there's stuff like that they take away and entice you to buy the full thing.
• 34:25
  So like Podbean is $14 a feed, and it provides about as, again,
• 34:32
  the fucking analytics side is as best as it can be, I guess.
• 34:37
  I don't know how, in my opinion, it's not the deepest thing ever,
• 34:40
  but it provides some, so you can see certain country downloads,
• 34:45
  things like that but yeah there's there are spotify folded anchor into their thing that's free
• 34:53
  rss.com has a free you know uh entry level one but like i said it's like so many hours per
• 35:01
  you know month or some shit so i mean there's there's free and then there's it depends on how
• 35:07
  high up you want to go i guess so it doesn't cost much to get into it sounds in the beginning the
• 35:13
  most valuable thing is your time yeah you got you got to put you got to put the work in at what
• 35:18
  point do you think it's like at what point can you sit back and and decide now it's time to put more
• 35:28
  money into this um no no when it's time to spend oh it's uh i i you know i
• 35:38
  well for me for me it was time to spend when i started to get the attention because now it's
• 35:46
  like okay when i noticed the upticks and it's like well people are listening i do have a confirmed
• 35:52
  subscriber here and there so people are they want to hear what i got to say so i guess i should
• 35:56
  probably make this a little bit better than sounding like a garbage can so so when when
• 36:02
  that happened what did you what did you find was the first priority for you in terms of
• 36:06
  stepping things up?
• 36:08
  Space.
• 36:09
  Because I was doing it in my office.
• 36:12
  So was it important to have not just,
• 36:14
  like you mean your own space,
• 36:15
  like a dedicated space?
• 36:17
  Okay.
• 36:17
  Because I was doing it in the office
• 36:19
  and then when I needed to do more of it,
• 36:23
  there wasn't the time
• 36:24
  because people live there too.
• 36:27
  So then it was,
• 36:27
  I'm going to build a 60 square foot studio
• 36:29
  in the backyard, which I did.
• 36:32
  And then that gave me,
• 36:33
  when they go to sleep,
• 36:34
  I go out there at night and I knock it out.
• 36:35
  and then once you get into that and you start insulating it it turns into a studio then it's
• 36:39
  like you know it's kind of weird to say but it's like you're sitting there and you're like
• 36:43
  yeah this looks stupid if it's a well-built building and i got like this weird ass mic on
• 36:49
  on a stand with like a laptop so i better make it look like a studio i don't know in my head
• 36:55
  just kind of had that that's just a preference thing i guess i don't know so so so part part
• 36:59
  part of stepping up the quality is you know a lot of people overlook a dedicated space
• 37:04
  you're so right like not having the the dedicated space where you feel it's your own and you can let
• 37:11
  loose in that's extremely important and not just to have in the space but the vibe of the space
• 37:17
  right that helps that helps motivate you yeah and how you feel and how you want to approach
• 37:22
  you want to dress it you want to dress that space up to reflect you at whoever you may be you know
• 37:27
  for me,
• 37:28
  I'm a toy collector.
• 37:29
  So it's stuff with toys and art things.
• 37:31
  And,
• 37:32
  you know,
• 37:33
  it's,
• 37:33
  it's a peaceful place to walk in.
• 37:37
  Well,
• 37:38
  crawl into it.
• 37:38
  It's a small,
• 37:39
  but you know.
• 37:40
  So what about,
• 37:41
  what about stepping up production quality?
• 37:44
  When do you think it's time for someone to start spending money on that?
• 37:47
  Well,
• 37:47
  production.
• 37:49
  And hold on before you answer,
• 37:50
  I'm going to bring this up because there,
• 37:52
  there are podcasters and we'll get to the numbers thing.
• 37:56
  So I'm going to say alleged numbers that have allegedly large numbers and amount of followers that have horrible, I mean, horrible audio quality and are still getting away with it.
• 38:10
  What's your thoughts on, on that?
• 38:13
  That they suck at their job?
• 38:15
  No, aside from that, like what's, what's your thoughts on actually putting time into your audio quality?
• 38:22
  Those are guys faking it and making it.
• 38:24
  But I mean, once you get to a certain level,
• 38:29
  you can't do it all by yourself.
• 38:31
  So you're going to have to find people.
• 38:33
  You're going to have to cut the jobs up.
• 38:36
  And when I hear the same show as you hear,
• 38:38
  it doesn't seem like they are.
• 38:40
  It seems like you got one guy with his hand on the mixer
• 38:43
  and he's talking into a mic kind of above the mixer.
• 38:46
  Then he disappears, which means he's leaning over
• 38:49
  to pull a cord or some shit.
• 38:51
  And then the other guy tries to talk over
• 38:53
  and it just sounds muffled.
• 38:55
  It sounds like they're in a fucking bathroom somewhere.
• 38:59
  Right You know once you get to a certain level you got to chop the the jobs up so you gotta find someone who really good with the production stuff or at least marginally okay you know to where
• 39:11
  you can hand them the audio file and you know that they're going to put it together
• 39:14
  you know so that for me i don't have that but i'm also not in a giant space so i'm not that
• 39:21
  far from anything so when i when i do it i'm doing all of it but it's all feeding in at one take
• 39:27
  so I'm able to move things
• 39:30
  because I'm not that far away.
• 39:34
  Actually, that's an important thing you said.
• 39:37
  Being able to understand
• 39:38
  when it's time to delegate jobs
• 39:40
  and responsibilities to people who specialize
• 39:43
  like the production person
• 39:44
  or whoever's handling the recording and editing side
• 39:47
  and then allowing you just to be the host.
• 39:49
  Just to write it and yak about it.
• 39:51
  Yeah.
• 39:52
  But I got to say,
• 39:54
  what about the equipment?
• 39:55
  There are control freaks out there
• 39:56
  I just won't give it up.
• 39:58
  True.
• 39:58
  But what about the equipment itself?
• 40:00
  Because there's only so long that I think you can go with using cheap microphones and, you know, cheap interfaces because quality in is quality out.
• 40:08
  I mean, literally.
• 40:09
  Yeah, I mean, obviously.
• 40:10
  And I'm just saying this because it comes from my background, you know, as a live sound engineer.
• 40:16
  And I've recorded a couple of albums with bands.
• 40:18
  So I've been in the studios and I've had real equipment in front of me.
• 40:20
  and um i do understand not everybody can afford you know a super high-end mic that costs four
• 40:29
  or five thousand dollars and honestly if you're podcasting i'm not necessarily saying there's a
• 40:33
  need for that type of microphone it's a little little bit much you know and you don't need to
• 40:39
  go there but when do you go from you know the the 80 usb mic to the five or maybe even 700
• 40:48
  broadcast mic uh you can find deals though i don't know if you want to go 500 broadcast mic
• 40:57
  understand okay so you're saying you don't the equipment doesn't matter
• 41:02
  no it matters it's i mean we're talking about overall price i mean i i mean i found my mics
• 41:11
  on a clearance rack for 100 bucks and i think they're i think they're pretty good
• 41:14
  you know, for what they are.
• 41:16
  I mean, they're not what I'm talking into now,
• 41:18
  which are obviously, you know, five levels up, but.
• 41:22
  Well, no, no, I wasn't trying to say that.
• 41:24
  I mean, you're just telling me that my shit.
• 41:25
  Well, I was just using an example of 80 to 500.
• 41:28
  I'm not saying someone has to spend 500.
• 41:29
  What I'm saying is, look,
• 41:31
  there's a definite difference between a $20 USB mic
• 41:34
  and a $200 mic.
• 41:36
  Well, fuck, yeah.
• 41:37
  Right?
• 41:37
  Yeah.
• 41:38
  So when do you think it's time for someone
• 41:40
  to move in the direction of the $200 mic?
• 41:42
  again when you when you're following is better there's no reason to to go in with a two three
• 41:49
  hundred dollar mic if no one's listening okay now i mean i'm i don't know if that's i don't know if
• 41:56
  that's helpful to the kids out there but that's just kind of how i view it i mean if you aren't
• 41:59
  if no one's listening right away and you're working on yourself and you're working on your
• 42:05
  product there's no reason to to me to go dive in with a two three hundred dollar mic and talking
• 42:12
  to nobody well you might as well get your your practice you're getting your practice in the first
• 42:19
  you know i don't know first run whatever that may be 10 episodes you're absolutely correct because
• 42:26
  even i started with a um i got a deal on uh you know i started with a condenser mic and i knew
• 42:31
  you know when it comes when it comes to this and this is basically just broadcasting right and a
• 42:36
  condenser mic is extremely sensitive picks up all kinds of stuff but i started with that just to test
• 42:40
  the waters it was a good one but i did get it on a deal i got a really good deal it's almost like a
• 42:45
  two for one i don't know if they're clearing them out or what they were doing i said hell i'll try
• 42:50
  that and i did get a few shows in before i realized this isn't working and a lot of that is because of
• 42:55
  me like because of my background but i even i didn't say hey i'm gonna blow you know two grand
• 43:02
  on a mic because you're right you don't need that but i believe that you should be able to split the
• 43:07
  difference if you can spend 80 but you know you know you can stretch to one fifth or two try it
• 43:15
  it's it might be worth that investment now do your research first don't just throw money away
• 43:19
  but get the best that you know you can afford because to me once you make that purchase you're
• 43:25
  pretty much done with it and you may never need to upgrade and once you get to like you said joe
• 43:30
  rogan's daggers well at that point you're it's a whole nother ball game the money doesn't matter
• 43:35
  right you can just go to town so you sounds like your message is put out quality content and stay
• 43:43
  consistent and then the steps to take to improve on let's say gear or anything else will come
• 43:53
  after your audience starts responding once you know that you're doing it right once you know that
• 43:58
  you have something that's working then you can in my opinion you know you can switch to your upgrades
• 44:02
  and start to sound a little bit better,
• 44:05
  add some more transitional stuff maybe.
• 44:10
  Once you know that you have a following of sorts
• 44:14
  and people like it,
• 44:15
  then that's my opinion anyway.
• 44:17
  So it sounds like nobody has a reason
• 44:18
  to be scared to get something started.
• 44:21
  No, because you don't know who's listening when you start.
• 44:23
  So who cares?
• 44:24
  Just keep going.
• 44:26
  You're right.
• 44:26
  And for your example of a podcast
• 44:28
  having only two listeners at the beginning,
• 44:30
  I mean, that one listener could be fricking Bill Gates.
• 44:33
  You never know who's out there.
• 44:35
  You never know who may be liking what you're talking about.
• 44:37
  That's why we're talking about the guest thing.
• 44:39
  It's like, don't be too choosy because you don't know.
• 44:41
  You don't know who the fuck's on the other end.
• 44:44
  That's a pretty good point there, actually.
• 44:48
  I mean, unless you are a science fiction guy,
• 44:51
  then I guess it wouldn't make sense to go do a video game podcast.
• 44:57
  No.
• 44:58
  I mean, I'm being...
• 44:59
  to stick to what you know, you mean? Yeah, but what I'm
• 45:01
  trying to say is if it's all science fiction,
• 45:04
  don't be too choosy with which show.
• 45:06
  Just jump on all
• 45:07
  of it. But if, I mean...
• 45:09
  Oh, you mean, for example...
• 45:11
  I should have said that in the beginning. It just kind of dawned on me.
• 45:14
  I'm like, well... So as a guess, if you're
• 45:15
  into gaming... Stick to gaming.
• 45:18
  But put
• 45:19
  yourself out there... To be on all the
• 45:21
  gaming stuff. And
• 45:23
  on the same side of that, or on the
• 45:25
  opposite side, I mean, the host should
• 45:27
  be...
• 45:29
  good enough to do the research on the guest and do the best to help that guest shine yeah
• 45:38
  okay so i i mean it makes makes a ton of sense to me like i said it just it just hit me right now
• 45:44
  and i should have said it with with that question now that we're i mean that's all good advice now
• 45:49
  that we're we're gonna stick on the business side a bit you have a lot to say about numbers i do and
• 45:56
  i'm not even gonna tee this up because i think you already know what you want to say about this
• 45:59
  so why don't you talk about analytics and data and i'll chime in here and there but i'm sure that
• 46:08
  you already got this down so i don't have to tee you up for anything really what what let's start
• 46:13
  with that i'm just gonna let you go so how do you how do you what do you say to people on how to
• 46:21
  accurately interpret analytics and data when it comes to their show and when you get there should
• 46:28
  they be discouraged by what they're seeing if it's not as high as they think it is they should
• 46:33
  never be discouraged by the numbers because none of those are numbers no matter what you're looking
• 46:38
  at is accurate because when you go to different when you go to different platforms they have
• 46:47
  different rules to count downloads they have different rules to count you know subscriptions
• 46:52
  and things. So if you go to Apple, they count a download as 30 seconds. So some guy could just
• 47:02
  go in, listen for 30 seconds, and it counts. And it's not a guy listening to the whole show. So you
• 47:09
  don't really know if that person ever came back or if you like, because Apple doesn't break it down
• 47:15
  by that guy listening again or being engaged again.
• 47:21
  So the numbers come in, but they're not 100%
• 47:25
  as far as who's listening and who's not.
• 47:29
  And that's what Apple does.
• 47:30
  And when you go to Podbean, Podbean is the same kind of deal
• 47:34
  where it's like 20-something seconds counts as a download.
• 47:39
  Okay, but then subscribe.
• 47:42
  So as I'm saying, these numbers are not,
• 47:44
  they're never going to be accurate they're never going to be on point because if you're on a pod
• 47:48
  being the platform you're on they don't get their updated downloads until 48 hours after whatever
• 47:57
  day you're looking at so you like one day i'll be looking and then it'll be you know three downloads
• 48:04
  then the next day no downloads next day no downloads and then the third day i'll get 60
• 48:08
  downloads so never don't don't be you know all upset about that when you look at it and when and
• 48:16
  the second thing is don't look at it every day or you drive yourself fucking insane um yeah it's not
• 48:22
  always accurately updated on time no and uh it also has to do with the fact that apple doesn't
• 48:28
  report to spotify because they are two different businesses spotify doesn't report back to podbean
• 48:33
  um iHeartRadio has a system but they they don't report every week they report every month
• 48:40
  so you may never know you don't know the exact number of downloads um that's that's one issue
• 48:47
  the other issue that that i have with it is if you want to make changes to your podcast
• 48:55
  when you go to port podcasts over from one platform to the other they they want um they
• 49:02
  want you to reroute it on a, you know, reroute the RSS feed. And that's all well and good,
• 49:09
  but some places only take certain files. So when I went in and I went to Anchor,
• 49:19
  they converted all my music, all my files to MP4. And I had them at MP3, I think, or something like
• 49:27
  that so when i when i went back to go to a different place and i was looking at going to
• 49:32
  rss.com they said oh you got to convert all your files to mp3 or we won't take it so then it becomes
• 49:38
  an email war with companies that don't give a shit about you because you're not joe rogan
• 49:41
  and you end up in a battle right so that's another problem is none of these guys are willing to leave
• 49:47
  your shit alone they automatically convert your files because they say it's the industry standard
• 49:51
  but yet another company will will be at a completely different format and they say it's
• 49:56
  the industry standard i like i said i just they don't talk to each other you know and that's that's
• 50:01
  an issue and i wish that they would because they're all reporting downloads shares subscriptions
• 50:06
  into whatever system you're supposedly on then i mean i guess they all should play in this you
• 50:13
  know together and they don't it makes you wonder how how you know that anybody's numbers are
• 50:20
  accurate and when it comes to monetization and advertising how to advertising advertisers even
• 50:26
  know that the numbers they're seeing are accurate on a show they only advertisers only go off
• 50:32
  downloads they don't go off of your subscriptions they don't go off your fucking okay my experience
• 50:37
  anyway i know there's probably a guy out there that's gonna be like oh no no no no no no they
• 50:41
  go off of this is it my experience they meet the first question out of their mouth is how many
• 50:46
  downloads do you have right so and then when you say x amount then they go okay well how what's your
• 50:53
  you know then they go and they say okay well if you only you got to be at this download tier in
• 50:58
  order to get this type of sponsorship or this type of thing so i mean i think it i don't know
• 51:06
  how they i personally don't think that they should be determining it that way
• 51:09
  because the downloads aren't accurately reported anyway um well it's like the um the podcast that
• 51:18
  says they have you know 10 000 downloads a day okay and we're talking about people who aren't
• 51:24
  you know we keep saying joe rogan but it's because almost everybody knows who he is but
• 51:28
  they're not joe rogan or even a tucker carlson right how is it that these certain people who
• 51:36
  honestly if they're so big most everyone hasn't heard of but yet they're supposedly doing 10 000
• 51:42
  downloads a day.
• 51:44
  That's another issue is you can pay for it.
• 51:47
  And that, and I think that dilute, that destroys the industry,
• 51:50
  the industry or the hobby or whatever you want to call it,
• 51:53
  because there's companies out there that you give them a couple of bucks,
• 51:57
  they will produce downloads on your system because they have a crew in the back
• 52:01
  that just downloads for the fuck of it.
• 52:03
  And if you want to do it for free,
• 52:04
  because this is how cheap this unpoliced it is.
• 52:09
  I can literally tell our mom to just turn on play for two hours
• 52:15
  and I'll get 130 episode download and it'll count.
• 52:21
  There's so much fuckery going on, you know,
• 52:23
  and I don't think that's right.
• 52:24
  I think there should be a way to track the IP addresses
• 52:31
  coming off of the thing.
• 52:32
  and it's like, okay, why is this IP address downloading 250 times tonight?
• 52:39
  There's got to be something going on here.
• 52:41
  They should be able to track that and shut that off, but they don't.
• 52:44
  They say they do.
• 52:45
  No, they don't.
• 52:46
  They don't.
• 52:46
  Because I actually had emailed Podbean directly
• 52:49
  and asked them about their analytics
• 52:50
  and wanted to know why there's jumps on certain shows
• 52:57
  that are suddenly featured and they have no followers.
• 53:01
  How does that work?
• 53:02
  I wondered that too.
• 53:04
  And they said, oh, our system is, you know,
• 53:06
  as up to date or what the industry standard.
• 53:09
  And then they said, well, if you want to be featured,
• 53:11
  you have to pay to be featured.
• 53:13
  So it becomes part of advertising budget, basically.
• 53:17
  Did they take that away?
• 53:18
  Because I was going through the admin side of it,
• 53:24
  and I don't see that as something you could pay for anymore,
• 53:26
  as in trying to be featured.
• 53:28
  Last time I looked at it, it was on there.
• 53:30
  I haven't looked in, I want to say, six months.
• 53:32
  I'm not going to pay to be featured.
• 53:36
  No, I mean, you shouldn't.
• 53:38
  You've been around long enough that you don't have to.
• 53:40
  You know, and then I've also, you know,
• 53:41
  there's also like some of the sponsorships.
• 53:47
  I agree with advertising,
• 53:48
  but paying to move yourself up the rank,
• 53:52
  I don't believe in that.
• 53:53
  Those same companies you pay for, you know,
• 53:55
  downloads, you can pay for reviews,
• 53:57
  and they'll type it up on Apple.
• 53:59
  And this will kind of go to...
• 54:02
  i wanted to say it earlier but this is leading right into and this is the very thing that the
• 54:08
  celebrities do see that's exactly what i was just gonna say which destroys the end the that destroys
• 54:13
  the entire thing i was just gonna ask about that because because it's not even just a list celebrity
• 54:18
  i'm talking about like a c-lister they've got some following but all of a sudden they decide
• 54:23
  there could be a podcaster and overnight they're in the top 10 list yeah well there's this there's
• 54:28
  Just one Vanderpump rules for all.
• 54:31
  You know, this fucking girl, she left this show.
• 54:33
  She comes out and she's like, I have a podcast because I want to tell my truth on why I left because I need episodes of that.
• 54:40
  And within the second episode, you look down and she's already got 100,000 downloads.
• 54:47
  And she's got, you know, 300 reviews in less than three weeks.
• 54:53
  And you're like, how the fuck is that even?
• 54:54
  there's i mean i guess maybe people are just really want to hear you talk about why you left
• 55:00
  i mean there is something to be said about being a celebrity and you know that's going to attract
• 55:04
  attention but i think but but in in less than well i guess i don't know i i'm very finicky on
• 55:11
  this it's it's possible but there's there's a lot of there's a lot of people who you know like i said
• 55:17
  a c-list or um even a comedian that they don't have a lot of following but all of a sudden
• 55:24
  overnight they're you know top 10 top 100 even top 200 i mean that that is that is strange
• 55:31
  it's really strange to just suddenly start and be at that rank so are you are you saying that
• 55:40
  these people are just paying for that yep it's all fake yep and that does dilute the uh the
• 55:46
  medium of podcast because now you're suppressing a lot of really good content creators that have
• 55:52
  you know that are unfortunately not given a chance because now when you go on to apple or whatever
• 55:57
  you use to listen your podcast you're no longer in the conversation in terms of who they want to
• 56:03
  feature and say hey check this out it's similar to what you're listening to even if it is i've also
• 56:08
  found i don't know how you feel about this their content sucks i was just there's there's a show
• 56:13
  called smartless and they're all definitely smartless smartless yes these three these three
• 56:19
  comedians i forgot what that's nothing dude they get they basically get a distribution deal out of
• 56:25
  the gate because they are a fucking guy and an actor at some point so they've already they go
• 56:31
  into like iHeart or whatever and they're like here's my show we all know it may suck but my name
• 56:38
  is fairly big in the acting world
• 56:39
  so let's do a deal here
• 56:42
  and you get a bump, I get a bump
• 56:43
  and then you can cancel it if you think it's terrible.
• 56:47
  And Smartless is
• 56:48
  one of them.
• 56:49
  I've never heard of it.
• 56:51
  You want to throw up in a garbage can?
• 56:55
  Listen to that
• 56:56
  shit.
• 56:58
  There's got to be a lot of fuckery here.
• 57:01
  I'm sorry, but no one
• 57:02
  gives a fuck about Jason Bateman
• 57:04
  outside of his fucking movies.
• 57:06
  well i was gonna i was gonna say somehow somehow he's getting he's collecting cash
• 57:11
  from a podcast that is terrible right so what you said earlier about good quality content
• 57:19
  and that's how you build your audience your show and yet there there's i i am not trying
• 57:25
  to compare myself because i'm not i look i have like what 10 11 less than 20 episodes i just
• 57:31
  started. You have way more, but I will listen to some and I critique my own show a lot. Like I'm,
• 57:39
  I'm, I can critique myself and I'm one of those people that'll listen to another podcast and go,
• 57:45
  damn, that guy's good. What should I do to improve on? You know, it could be their approach, their,
• 57:51
  their attention to detail, how they research, anything like that. But then I hear some others,
• 57:55
  they might be in my same category. And I'm like, how the fuck is this guy so popular?
• 58:00
  And it's not just me trying to be a jealous asshole.
• 58:03
  Believe me, it's not.
• 58:04
  It's like literally, how is this person so popular?
• 58:07
  There's no substance.
• 58:09
  There's no, like there's nothing behind it.
• 58:12
  And I find this a lot with the celebrity crossover,
• 58:17
  the celebrity that crosses over into the podcast medium.
• 58:21
  So they're paying for this.
• 58:23
  They're literally, you know, using their team to promote them, say.
• 58:28
  so they're pumping the numbers
• 58:30
  so they can get advertisers
• 58:31
  I'm going to bring up another one
• 58:33
  she's out of the Daily Wire
• 58:34
  her fucking show is 100%
• 58:38
  reading comments
• 58:40
  that's it
• 58:42
  and she reacts to it
• 58:44
  there will be a
• 58:45
  YouTube video
• 58:47
  whatever like the Cat Williams shit let's say
• 58:49
  and then she'll just read the comments
• 58:51
  and react to those comments
• 58:52
  that's it that's her show
• 58:54
  and that's on the Daily Wire
• 58:58
  Yes, and in less than a year,
• 59:00
  she's over a million subscribers.
• 59:02
  But she has the Daily Wire behind her.
• 59:04
  Yes, they are bankrolling that.
• 59:07
  Absolutely.
• 59:08
  I don't think it's working.
• 59:09
  I've listened to it.
• 59:10
  It's a big company behind her.
• 59:11
  That's probably part of the reason.
• 59:12
  Yeah, well, that's what I'm saying.
• 59:14
  A lot of these, as we were saying earlier,
• 59:16
  talking about a lot of celebrities jumping into the game
• 59:18
  or a lot of companies pushing things.
• 59:20
  This is another one of those great examples.
• 59:23
  Her show,
• 59:24
  I fell asleep
• 59:28
  through an episode.
• 59:30
  I literally dozed off.
• 59:32
  It is not something that's going to grab
• 59:34
  everybody's attention, I'm sure, because
• 59:36
  a lot of the younger kids might be into this shit.
• 59:38
  But this thing, to me,
• 59:40
  was a fucking train wreck. I don't care.
• 59:42
  I can read the comments myself
• 59:44
  and I can process it
• 59:46
  how I wish to process.
• 59:49
  So
• 59:49
  for some
• 59:51
  reason this show is famous.
• 59:54
  Like I said, I can process and read the comments myself to whatever it is I'm watching.
• 1:00:00
  I don't really need, personally, I don't really need, you know, fucking Brett Cooper to agree or disagree.
• 1:00:07
  It's kind of a stupid concept that the Daily Wire has jumped on, but they've put so much, you know, fucking money behind her,
• 1:00:15
  and they shoved it up there to the, you know, by paying, I feel like when they do this shit,
• 1:00:20
  they pay for their everything to be a certain way,
• 1:00:24
  you know,
• 1:00:25
  through downloads and reviews and things just to get,
• 1:00:28
  to get the thing out there.
• 1:00:30
  That's kind of what I think goes on.
• 1:00:33
  And that's just an,
• 1:00:34
  that show is an example of,
• 1:00:36
  of that to me.
• 1:00:37
  And there are shows where you know that they're doing it.
• 1:00:41
  You know,
• 1:00:42
  like the,
• 1:00:42
  the most recent shit that I saw was when,
• 1:00:45
  uh,
• 1:00:47
  the Wondery network put out that,
• 1:00:49
  uh,
• 1:00:50
  thing where they're reading reviews.
• 1:00:52
  It's another review show.
• 1:00:53
  They're reading reviews,
• 1:00:55
  and then they're talking shit about it.
• 1:00:57
  And when they had it on launch day,
• 1:00:59
  I personally wrote a negative review of the show,
• 1:01:01
  and the show got completely deleted and rebooted,
• 1:01:04
  and then my review is not even up there.
• 1:01:07
  So I know that they're doing something
• 1:01:09
  behind the scenes
• 1:01:11
  to keep these shows in a positive light,
• 1:01:15
  even though they suck.
• 1:01:16
  Or the concept is ridiculous.
• 1:01:18
  this so you can't you can't get in the mindset of like you said earlier you're not competing with
• 1:01:25
  anybody because people people who start out in podcasts or even people that are are at our level
• 1:01:31
  you're not competing with these people because you just can't they're they have two there's too
• 1:01:36
  many resources behind them whether they're good or bad there's too many resources behind them that
• 1:01:41
  you're not going to be able to catch up to not overnight anyway i'm not saying someone can't
• 1:01:46
  have a huge podcast, become famous, and everything goes with it.
• 1:01:50
  But it's not an overnight success story.
• 1:01:52
  It also has to do with what your goal, I guess, is.
• 1:01:56
  If your goal is to have millions of people listening to you,
• 1:01:59
  you're going to be beating your head against the wall.
• 1:02:02
  Because there are so many companies that are diving into the space,
• 1:02:06
  and they all are getting financing.
• 1:02:09
  They're all getting bankrolled by other corporations that want a piece.
• 1:02:13
  and that's why you're seeing a lot of the more well-known voices if you will get bought up
• 1:02:19
  because if you know who that is you're going to go gravitate towards it automatically and then
• 1:02:25
  then you're going to get an audience quicker than it is to build up joey on the you know
• 1:02:31
  joey at the bottom there right and that's disheartening to a degree i mean and i think
• 1:02:37
  that's what turns a lot of people off yeah we're saying go for it it doesn't take much you know
• 1:02:42
  just, just go out and make it happen, do it for you because that's all you can do. Um,
• 1:02:48
  when the thing with podcasting in this medium I've seen is becoming too corporate, you know,
• 1:02:55
  it used to be just a similar to like blogging. It was very open, free form. Um, you, you were able
• 1:03:03
  to to just be yourself and really get your art out there good or bad but it still your artistic expression or you expressing yourself in a free medium And now it becoming so so corporate that they literally just suppressing all of the independent voices in a medium that was
• 1:03:23
  originally an independent medium. And then like your example with the bloggers, that was a space
• 1:03:30
  where you can, you know, you pay a little money, get your own website and you start writing your
• 1:03:33
  news articles the way you want to and what you think is good and what you think brings out you
• 1:03:40
  know a better perspective on whatever the issue is but then what it what ended up happening is
• 1:03:45
  the New York Times was losing on audience so what do they do they start buying up the bloggers
• 1:03:51
  because they have the resources to do it and then you then you destroy that free space because now
• 1:03:56
  you're pulling away the talent or the competition and that's how a lot of businesses get killed is
• 1:04:02
  they start buying up those businesses.
• 1:04:04
  Kind of like similar to,
• 1:04:06
  kind of similar to like,
• 1:04:08
  go to video games for a second,
• 1:04:10
  like Xbox,
• 1:04:11
  the Microsoft company,
• 1:04:13
  billions of dollars in software.
• 1:04:15
  They want to get in the video game space.
• 1:04:17
  They can't,
• 1:04:18
  they don't know how to do it
• 1:04:18
  because they suck at it.
• 1:04:19
  So what do they do?
• 1:04:20
  They turn around and buy up
• 1:04:21
  all these game studios
• 1:04:22
  for billions of dollars
• 1:04:24
  just to compete.
• 1:04:26
  And now they're at a level
• 1:04:27
  where they're kind of
• 1:04:28
  at the same level as,
• 1:04:29
  they're at a level of Nintendo
• 1:04:30
  at this point.
• 1:04:31
  but they ended up spending money to get there because they suck and they couldn't get it any
• 1:04:35
  other way so it really seems to to be able to if you want to be the competitor for example
• 1:04:42
  you got to really focus like you said earlier about quality content consistency but also when
• 1:04:48
  it comes to marketing maybe take the approach of owning your own backyard before you think you can
• 1:04:55
  own the world. Why not start promoting your podcast to your peers, to your friends, to your
• 1:05:01
  family, even if you want to do that, or other podcasters and start to really build that community.
• 1:05:08
  And then when you have a group of other podcasters that you're familiar with or that you have a
• 1:05:13
  camaraderie with, cross promote. To me, that'd be the only way to be able to stand out in this
• 1:05:19
  convoluted world of podcasting that, well, it has become convoluted anyway. It seems that that
• 1:05:23
  would be the the the pathway to success because you're not going to compete with you know i just
• 1:05:30
  said daily wire um or even fox that's gotten to the space yeah it's just not going to happen you
• 1:05:37
  don't have the money and resources but what do you think about just owning your own backyard i mean
• 1:05:43
  that was always something that in business i thought was valuable yeah be number one in your
• 1:05:48
  city and then go from there right your goal will be number one in your city don't be number one in
• 1:05:53
  California be number one in Fresno,
• 1:05:56
  you know,
• 1:05:56
  or your community.
• 1:05:58
  Yeah.
• 1:05:59
  Get,
• 1:05:59
  you know,
• 1:06:00
  if you,
• 1:06:00
  if you really want to interview people and have that kind of a podcast,
• 1:06:04
  go get your friend,
• 1:06:05
  interview your friend for an hour,
• 1:06:06
  interview your next friend,
• 1:06:07
  interview your mom and,
• 1:06:09
  and build and build it to something.
• 1:06:12
  So you can,
• 1:06:13
  can be number one in your city and get people in your city interested because
• 1:06:17
  you're doing it on a local level.
• 1:06:19
  Then you go,
• 1:06:20
  then if you want to go national or whatever,
• 1:06:21
  then you go from there.
• 1:06:22
  But,
• 1:06:22
  you're right you should be focusing on what's in front of you and not what's it like
• 1:06:28
  3 000 miles over there you know and and uh i'll i'll expand on that for example if you have a
• 1:06:36
  political commentary podcast where you interview politicians i mean you're not going to start day
• 1:06:40
  one and think you're going to interview joe biden or gavin newsom but you could interview maybe
• 1:06:46
  uh somebody city council yeah from the city council the mayor why not you know or even
• 1:06:52
  one of the employees of the city like the city manager or you know if you're able to do that or
• 1:06:57
  somebody else you know with within local government start there and then once the quality
• 1:07:04
  of your podcast and the quality of how you treat your guests comes together tightens up and gets
• 1:07:11
  out there, then higher profile guests will eventually follow.
• 1:07:17
  Yeah.
• 1:07:17
  Once they, once you, the main, I guess the main point of this entire discussion is put
• 1:07:24
  the work and get your ass out there.
• 1:07:26
  There's no other, there's no other way to get better without, you know, without doing
• 1:07:31
  it.
• 1:07:31
  There's no other, there's just no other way.
• 1:07:34
  There's no, there's no quick fix, you know, there just isn't.
• 1:07:39
  So if you're in this just for a quick buck, you might as well stop now.
• 1:07:43
  And well, if you're in this to make money, don't expect Manscaped to give you a big ass deal.
• 1:07:50
  It can happen.
• 1:07:51
  It can come.
• 1:07:52
  But it's, you know, you got to be realistic about your expectations.
• 1:07:56
  Is that correct?
• 1:07:57
  Is that what you're saying?
• 1:07:57
  Yeah.
• 1:07:58
  Don't expect them to hand you a $10 million deal, you know, out of the gate.
• 1:08:03
  you know whatever you're offered you take even if it's sponsorship from joey's car wash in town at
• 1:08:09
  least you have something something to attach to that'll build into something of course my my
• 1:08:16
  philosophy depends on your goals again like my personal goal is just to sit in front of the mic
• 1:08:20
  vent my frustrations and feel better so i don't have an advertising budget allocation because i'm
• 1:08:26
  not looking to do that.
• 1:08:30
  But I found that even organically it grows.
• 1:08:34
  So there's a give and take, I guess, if
• 1:08:38
  any of that just made sense. Anything else that we haven't
• 1:08:42
  talked about you kind of want to bring up?
• 1:08:50
  If you're interviewing,
• 1:08:53
  ask questions that fucking matter as well.
• 1:08:56
  At this point, that's one advice I would give.
• 1:09:01
  When you watch the Cat Williams thing,
• 1:09:05
  he goes to multiple places to get interviewed.
• 1:09:08
  And I know you do your research and you get your background,
• 1:09:11
  but don't ask the same five questions the last guy just asked.
• 1:09:14
  Because then it just sounds stale and it sounds very uninteresting
• 1:09:17
  because he's already answered those questions.
• 1:09:19
  So if you're following Cat Williams
• 1:09:21
  and he answers all that stuff on Shannon Sharp,
• 1:09:23
  don't ask him the same shit on whatever show he goes on you know it just doesn't
• 1:09:30
  you to me it turns people off so you know and if you're going to get into an interview
• 1:09:34
  challenge the guy a little bit you know it's like well this guy said you know this is what
• 1:09:40
  happened yeah but this guy said this what's your thoughts you know push him a little too you get
• 1:09:45
  you get kind of a it's a better conversation in my opinion right don't be afraid to try to break
• 1:09:52
  their walls down right yeah because find out what's under the hood if it you can tell in a
• 1:09:57
  respectful way obviously you don't go and say you know xyz i mean you you kind of do it in a in a
• 1:10:03
  calm and you know professional way but that's just my thing as far as that goes um another issue that
• 1:10:11
  that i think is is in is important is um
• 1:10:17
  I know people talk about editing like it's a big thing,
• 1:10:22
  you know, because, you know, take out the burps, the farts, whatever.
• 1:10:25
  But I would rather listen to an authentic conversation
• 1:10:30
  than the most robotic, overproduced thing ever.
• 1:10:34
  It's a turnoff for me personally.
• 1:10:36
  I'd rather hear you guys have a conversation.
• 1:10:38
  You blow a fart.
• 1:10:39
  You're laughing at it.
• 1:10:40
  Then you're getting back into the topic.
• 1:10:42
  And then this guy, you know, says, oh, I got to do this or that.
• 1:10:45
  and then he opens a bottle and you hear the pop
• 1:10:50
  and it's like, oh, it's like I'm in that room with you.
• 1:10:53
  But if I'm sitting there listening to you
• 1:10:55
  and I can hear a jump in the audio,
• 1:11:00
  okay, you just sliced out some minutes.
• 1:11:02
  What was wrong?
• 1:11:04
  Do you think it's getting to the point
• 1:11:06
  where it's becoming too polished,
• 1:11:07
  like people are trying to be too professional?
• 1:11:11
  Over-polished.
• 1:11:12
  Yeah, because you got something there.
• 1:11:14
  because it's it for i'll use bill burt um not bill burt bill maher as an example his podcast
• 1:11:19
  really seems nothing more than like another tv show the way it's put together yeah and it's it's
• 1:11:25
  very i think it's sad because it's like it's if this is if this is a space of you know for everybody
• 1:11:33
  then why are you doing it in a way that turns off a lot of people like that i i would think that you
• 1:11:41
  would want to be like okay well this is not my regular tv show i'm the celebrity let's just have
• 1:11:45
  an hour whatever is there is there and it's not what they do it's like oh we'll edit that or we'll
• 1:11:50
  cut that it's like why i mean it just it just to me it just makes it just doesn't seem real
• 1:11:57
  yeah podcasting was originally a raw form um and i think it should stay that way yeah and that was
• 1:12:03
  the appeal you feel like you were part of the conversation or in the same room like you said
• 1:12:06
  you know literally now i'll edit but i'll edit obvious mistakes you know i mean talking obvious
• 1:12:15
  audio whatever mistakes but i'm not messing with the content of the conversation i mean i cut dead
• 1:12:21
  spots i don't cut the audio yeah exactly or if you know i i got a thing like if i accidentally hit
• 1:12:28
  my mic or some loud noise i'll cut that out because it's just not comfortable for someone
• 1:12:33
  to hear in their headphones or what.
• 1:12:34
  No, yeah, but I mean, I'm talking like...
• 1:12:37
  But I'm not altering the conversation.
• 1:12:38
  And I think a lot of people do try to alter it
• 1:12:41
  to where there's context missing.
• 1:12:45
  And it's like you said, it doesn't sound genuine.
• 1:12:48
  No, and then the music they choose,
• 1:12:53
  it just seems like it's not...
• 1:12:54
  I don't know, I just have a whole thing on editing.
• 1:12:57
  I just don't think it should be something you do.
• 1:13:00
  You're not making a music album.
• 1:13:03
  So you know what I mean?
• 1:13:03
  It doesn't have to be super perfect.
• 1:13:05
  It doesn't have to have all the bells and whistles and stuff.
• 1:13:09
  I mean, obviously make it as clear as you can.
• 1:13:12
  Make the levels about the same.
• 1:13:13
  But don't sit there and start chopping six, seven, eight, nine minutes of audio.
• 1:13:18
  It could be good audio to somebody.
• 1:13:20
  You don't know.
• 1:13:21
  And that's just kind of my thing with editing.
• 1:13:26
  And I've experienced this.
• 1:13:27
  I don't know if you have yet.
• 1:13:29
  but there are some genuine assholes out there that are in this space.
• 1:13:35
  There are assholes everywhere.
• 1:13:36
  I know.
• 1:13:37
  We talked about it in the beginning,
• 1:13:38
  but I'm going to emphasize it because there are genuine assholes in this space,
• 1:13:42
  and I found a lot of them on Twitter.
• 1:13:46
  They all have suggestions, and their own shit sucks,
• 1:13:50
  and that really irritates me.
• 1:13:52
  They all tell you how you're supposed to sound,
• 1:13:53
  how you're supposed to use your stuff, what content,
• 1:13:56
  and then when you listen to their shit, you're like,
• 1:13:59
  you're no better than me or you're less than me in terms of what's going on.
• 1:14:03
  So why are you even trying to offer advice or they want you to pay them for
• 1:14:06
  the advice?
• 1:14:08
  Well,
• 1:14:08
  everybody thinks they're an authority.
• 1:14:10
  Everybody thinks,
• 1:14:11
  yeah.
• 1:14:11
  And it just,
• 1:14:12
  it drives me nuts and it just pisses me off.
• 1:14:15
  Cause it's like 90,
• 1:14:16
  90 to 95 of us are not famous on this in this space We all have our own little world You know if you want to be in that subject matter and cross cool
• 1:14:28
  But don't sit here and try to think you're better than me
• 1:14:32
  or five levels ahead of me or whatever the fuck it is
• 1:14:36
  because, I mean, we're all level in my opinion.
• 1:14:40
  I mean, there are just dicks out there.
• 1:14:42
  And, you know, there's a lot of tricky fucks out there with like,
• 1:14:46
  oh listen to me and then I'll rate you and then you rate me back or whatever and then they never
• 1:14:50
  respond or never do anything you know and then suddenly there's a bunch of graphic designers
• 1:14:55
  out there too that think they can make logos like everybody just seems to want a piece of this pie
• 1:15:01
  and I think it it's just it's sad and it's discouraging and I just wish a lot of that
• 1:15:07
  would change like just yeah actual real support versus you know uh building your it should be
• 1:15:17
  more supportive rather than hey look at me i'm better than you and i'm the one who has the answers
• 1:15:21
  to it all yeah a lot of these guys too there's some guys that are like i want to let's get a
• 1:15:27
  you know like a debate going i've had a conversation like that on and in in with uh with one of these
• 1:15:34
  fucking guys and it's like i that's one of the reasons why i don't do full i don't want to do
• 1:15:39
  full-scale debates because it's kind of like okay what are we gonna do you're gonna insult me
• 1:15:43
  you're gonna tell me how you're better and then then what i'm gonna tell you i'm better i mean
• 1:15:50
  we're not gonna talk about anything you're just gonna and then it's like oh no no no no no that's
• 1:15:56
  not what i want it's like well then what are you talking about and they just kind of then they
• 1:16:01
  stop responding because they know that you're kind of onto their shit because they just want
• 1:16:04
  to pump their fucking page yeah it goes back to what we brought up earlier about hosts who just
• 1:16:08
  you know want want to be on the other side just down on the other individual to make themselves
• 1:16:14
  look better yeah it's just saying it's like the art you know there's an art to to debating that
• 1:16:20
  has gone away i don't i don't do debates on my on my show and i know you don't either because
• 1:16:25
  people don't know how to debate anymore they think it's just about slinging insults because
• 1:16:29
  they see that's what politicians these days do.
• 1:16:32
  But that's not how you debate.
• 1:16:33
  That's not how...
• 1:16:35
  That's not what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to try to
• 1:16:37
  go back and forth and intelligently
• 1:16:39
  get your point across to the other person
• 1:16:41
  until
• 1:16:43
  one can
• 1:16:44
  concede to the other and say,
• 1:16:47
  okay,
• 1:16:48
  you got me. I don't know what else to say.
• 1:16:51
  You make a valid point,
• 1:16:52
  you win. Or you're right,
• 1:16:55
  but I still disagree. Let's go. Well, there's that too.
• 1:16:57
  And there's nothing wrong with disagreeing.
• 1:16:59
  There's nothing wrong with disagreeing whatsoever.
• 1:17:02
  It's, it's, I mean, these are like mine.
• 1:17:05
  These are, I guess you can call them minor quips.
• 1:17:07
  Cause I mean, you don't run into it all the time, but I have had a few of them.
• 1:17:10
  Well, it's, it's, it's, it is a, um, you're right.
• 1:17:15
  There, there is a, there is a certain level of toxicity in this world for in the podcast
• 1:17:19
  world.
• 1:17:20
  I mean, Oh, and another thing video.
• 1:17:22
  What's that?
• 1:17:23
  Not necessary.
• 1:17:24
  I was going to get to that.
• 1:17:25
  I mean, I don't need to see two dicks talking to a microphone.
• 1:17:27
  All right, so let's wrap this part of this up because you are going to run to assholes,
• 1:17:33
  and you're correct.
• 1:17:34
  There's a lot of toxicity in this.
• 1:17:36
  And I'm not going to make this about me because it's about you, but I'm just going to throw
• 1:17:40
  this out because like you said, there's a lot of guys that say, oh, you should use this
• 1:17:42
  and do that.
• 1:17:43
  With my technical background and my business background acumen, I can call these guys out
• 1:17:47
  pretty quickly.
• 1:17:49
  And I have ran across it a few times already, but if I had to give advice, it's not about
• 1:17:55
  me it's you know you're the guest but I just want to throw something out there maybe um okay
• 1:18:00
  ignore it just move on don't engage these people no I'm like I said I've had a few
• 1:18:09
  interactions I've read I read a lot because I get you know the whole inbox bullshit but
• 1:18:14
  that's just kind of one a couple of things I just had in my head
• 1:18:18
  you know i haven't responded to a single graphic designer in a year you know how much better is
• 1:18:26
  your logo going to be than mine you know it's like how about those uh and for 25 hours how about
• 1:18:33
  those professional podcasting people the coaches are hilarious podcast promoting people what do
• 1:18:39
  you think about those people oh they're full of shit they're paying for it there's no way you can
• 1:18:43
  get me a hundred thousand downloads on Apple
• 1:18:45
  in a week. Right.
• 1:18:47
  I don't buy it. But they said, oh yeah
• 1:18:49
  and a lot of them are from the Middle
• 1:18:51
  East area too. So I know
• 1:18:53
  those are the same guys that scam phone calls.
• 1:18:55
  So I don't fucking... I noticed that.
• 1:18:56
  I don't listen to any of that nonsense.
• 1:19:00
  That to me
• 1:19:01
  that... No.
• 1:19:02
  All right.
• 1:19:04
  So let's leave the
• 1:19:06
  toxic assholes behind us and don't engage
• 1:19:08
  them. Yes, but
• 1:19:10
  they will catch a few of you.
• 1:19:13
  Wow.
• 1:19:14
  Because that's, you know, some people fall for it.
• 1:19:19
  I don't know.
• 1:19:20
  That's all I got on that one.
• 1:19:21
  That's all you got on that one?
• 1:19:22
  Yeah.
• 1:19:23
  There's no other.
• 1:19:23
  There's nothing else to that.
• 1:19:28
  Yeah.
• 1:19:31
  You were about to say something earlier.
• 1:19:34
  You had something on the tip of your tongue.
• 1:19:36
  Uh-oh.
• 1:19:37
  Don't rewind the tape.
• 1:19:38
  No, no, no.
• 1:19:39
  It's not about that.
• 1:19:40
  I won't.
• 1:19:40
  I don't think I'll read.
• 1:19:41
  I think it had something to do with you're going back to numbers or something just a little bit earlier.
• 1:19:49
  And we kind of got cut off.
• 1:19:53
  Was that something you or did you get your point across already on that?
• 1:19:58
  I think I did.
• 1:19:58
  I think I nailed it.
• 1:19:59
  You know, there are there are entities that you can pay to get it done.
• 1:20:05
  There are just there's things you shouldn't worry about in that area.
• 1:20:10
  I think I've nailed it.
• 1:20:13
  They don't report
• 1:20:15
  information to each other accurately.
• 1:20:19
  They're all at different times.
• 1:20:22
  The IP addresses can never be
• 1:20:26
  100% identified.
• 1:20:29
  Well, let's talk.
• 1:20:32
  I want to go back to what you said about
• 1:20:33
  podcasts are overly polished.
• 1:20:36
  Do you think that applies to everything
• 1:20:38
  in terms of rawness?
• 1:20:40
  because what if you're trying to get into like the news space where traditionally a newscast or
• 1:20:46
  a news opinion type person has to kind of be polished uh do you think being raw applies to all
• 1:20:53
  all um categories well if you're doing a i'm just talking about the actual
• 1:20:59
  conversations of things but if you're doing like a oh i see so if you're doing like talking about
• 1:21:05
  don't mess with the actual content of the conversation yeah i mean if you're doing a
• 1:21:10
  true crime thing and you got to get all your you know all the information correct and you fuck up
• 1:21:15
  a couple times yeah you want to cut it record it do it again but if you're just having a guest
• 1:21:19
  you're having a conversation like this there's no reason to cut the audio got it you know there's
• 1:21:23
  no reason to like bring in an extra effect or whatever we're just you know there's you're you're
• 1:21:28
  just having a conversation okay so so you're not talking about rawness in terms of the the editing
• 1:21:33
  of leaving every mistake, blurb, whatever,
• 1:21:35
  and you're talking about rawness of,
• 1:21:37
  you know, leave the content of the conversation
• 1:21:39
  as it was meant to be.
• 1:21:42
  Like, if we're talking and you say something
• 1:21:45
  accidentally at a turn and you got to correct yourself,
• 1:21:48
  leave it in.
• 1:21:48
  Yeah, because a lot of those guys will cut that
• 1:21:50
  because they don't like that.
• 1:21:53
  But I have to just leave it.
• 1:21:54
  I mean, I want to feel like I'm in the room with you
• 1:21:56
  having this conversation.
• 1:21:59
  Right, and if you're correcting yourself
• 1:22:00
  as you're going along anyway,
• 1:22:02
  you know on the recording you're saying oh i well i didn't mean it that way you're right i i meant
• 1:22:07
  this then what was the point of the edit you know then leave it in anyway right exactly that that's
• 1:22:11
  that was that's what i'm saying about content got it uh you know in the audio like i said if you're
• 1:22:16
  doing a true crime documentary type deal you want to keep it in it you know cut it and do what you
• 1:22:20
  got to do because it's got to be you know on point if you're a news guy i guess i should have just
• 1:22:25
  said it by category but i mean if you're no we don't do all categories but but i'm saying you
• 1:22:29
  what I'm saying. I should have clarified
• 1:22:32
  this by category.
• 1:22:33
  It depends on your category.
• 1:22:36
  If you are in news,
• 1:22:37
  you want to make sure the information is accurate.
• 1:22:39
  If you're in a debate with someone on a
• 1:22:41
  political or a news level,
• 1:22:43
  I wouldn't cut the audio.
• 1:22:45
  Some guys do cut the audio.
• 1:22:48
  When you hear
• 1:22:49
  the audio of
• 1:22:51
  Ted Cruz,
• 1:22:55
  I know he cuts the audio.
• 1:22:56
  Oh yeah, he does.
• 1:22:57
  he 100% cuts the audio because there's a lot of pauses and a lot of static so i but but we're but
• 1:23:02
  that's a news-based conversational type thing if you're talking to a politician and you're talking
• 1:23:08
  about the hunter biden thing for example why are you cutting the audio just fucking let it go
• 1:23:13
  well let those guys let the talk happen that's funny because when it comes to those topics i
• 1:23:19
  know that um when you and i have ever ever gone down that road you know whenever i'm on your show
• 1:23:25
  or when you come here, we just let it fly.
• 1:23:28
  Yeah, and you don't have to like,
• 1:23:31
  that's another thing too.
• 1:23:32
  I think there's also over-preparing can get you stuck
• 1:23:34
  because then you have like a hundred notes in front of you
• 1:23:38
  and you got to hit them all
• 1:23:39
  or you got to go through them all.
• 1:23:40
  There are some that have it on a tablet
• 1:23:42
  and they scroll through it or whatever.
• 1:23:45
  For me, I just have name, like topic, topic, topic,
• 1:23:49
  but I have no notes under it.
• 1:23:50
  That was the next thing I was going to actually ask you
• 1:23:53
  was about preparing.
• 1:23:55
  That's one thing we didn't talk about.
• 1:23:56
  Like, how deep should you go?
• 1:23:58
  Should it just be an outline?
• 1:24:00
  Or, I mean, some people think
• 1:24:02
  they got to write it out like a script
• 1:24:04
  and they kind of stick to that.
• 1:24:06
  Yeah, there are show mappers out there.
• 1:24:07
  They will literally topic what it is,
• 1:24:10
  topic what it is, topic what it is.
• 1:24:12
  They write down whatever it is they're going to say
• 1:24:13
  and they repeat what's on the paper.
• 1:24:15
  Which, again, sounds like I'm fucking hearing
• 1:24:18
  a robotic show.
• 1:24:20
  but I think it's more a more natural thing is what I do to me anyway is I would just put the
• 1:24:27
  topic there and I might have an article but it's you know it's like a reference to the article and
• 1:24:32
  then I'll have it pulled up and I kind of read the bullet points before I start and then I press play
• 1:24:38
  and then I'm talking about what's there sometimes I will read the article you know verbatim because
• 1:24:43
  I didn't you know pull all the information onto something separate I just went you know
• 1:24:50
  with some of it and then I decided to add the information that the other guy already did
• 1:24:54
  but you try to you know also give credit to who wrote it you know there's things I do that way
• 1:24:59
  and then sometimes like I do with my son on that podcast is we just turn it on and go if we saw the
• 1:25:06
  movie you tell me what you think I do think there's no show notes no map no nothing we just
• 1:25:11
  fucking go for an hour and those those things are pretty off as fun as pot you know they're pretty
• 1:25:16
  fun obviously you sat in on one of them it's just fucking all over the goddamn place right and
• 1:25:21
  there no there there just no but those are those are fun because just free form it like whatever comes out and i i agree i agree with you on on the prep thing You can overprepare to where you can make your show stale And you make mistakes because you too busy staring at shit
• 1:25:37
  Yeah, you're too busy trying to be exactly what in your mind it needs to be.
• 1:25:42
  When it comes to prep, it was a good point you made
• 1:25:46
  because if you're talking about topics and you want to reference things,
• 1:25:50
  you want to research that ahead of time.
• 1:25:52
  you want to have them prepped ready to go and ready to play and you know when to play them
• 1:25:57
  but your your your commentary i mean i personally don't mind taking notes on something and saying
• 1:26:03
  okay this is how i think of something or if i want to do a show i'll take i'll take notes in
• 1:26:08
  terms of the topics i want to go over and i might do prep on that yeah but i don't i don't do a full
• 1:26:15
  script because I personally believe in free form and leaving room for you to kind of ad-lib and
• 1:26:24
  just talk off the top of your mind. But if I want to make a point about facts and data,
• 1:26:30
  I'll have that up already on the screen so I can either reference it or if it's a clip,
• 1:26:34
  I can play it. And it sounds like that's the way you do it. So your advice really,
• 1:26:42
  and what you're saying is prepare, but don't over-prepare.
• 1:26:45
  Don't be afraid to kind of ad-lib
• 1:26:48
  and just shoot from the hip, so to speak.
• 1:26:51
  Yeah, I mean, I used to do that
• 1:26:52
  where I would have like 20, 30 pages written down
• 1:26:55
  of three or four topics.
• 1:26:58
  The total would be like that, 20, 30 pages.
• 1:27:00
  And then I found myself flipping through it and reading them
• 1:27:02
  just directly like a novel and I'm looking down
• 1:27:04
  and I hear the playback and I'm like, fuck, this sucks.
• 1:27:07
  Because it doesn't sound like it's coming from me.
• 1:27:09
  It sounds like I'm reading.
• 1:27:10
  sounds like i'm i'm you know pretending to be something well and speaking of writing how
• 1:27:18
  important are transcripts to you because that's something that's been coming up a lot lately
• 1:27:23
  if everybody needs to attach a transcript to their to their show i don't attach it i don't i
• 1:27:29
  don't either i just want what do you think though like you think it's needed i i did the transcript
• 1:27:34
  thing is is there it's an option that a lot of platforms have and i think it's there just
• 1:27:40
  more of a cover your butt type thing how do you mean well i mean that because if you say something
• 1:27:47
  and let's say the audio is gone okay they have it written down somewhere so they can say oh yeah
• 1:27:53
  well this happened on the show well it's actually what he said is in the transcribe of the notes
• 1:27:58
  whatever okay um that's what i think it is i mean i could be 100 wrong but that's what i think it's
• 1:28:04
  there for it's also for the legal side of things because a lot of it's coming from
• 1:28:08
  companies with lawyers so trans you know transcriptions and notes so if somebody sues me
• 1:28:15
  and then i say oh well you know it's this is the platform or museum a lot then they go to the
• 1:28:20
  platform they go well this is what was said kind of something for them too i guess i'm talking off
• 1:28:25
  top of my ass because i really am not a i really don't know i asked your opinion i mean that those
• 1:28:30
  are all valid no i'm just saying i'm not i'm not 100 sure the actual purpose of it unless
• 1:28:34
  unless it's all valid opinions.
• 1:28:36
  I,
• 1:28:36
  I just,
• 1:28:37
  uh,
• 1:28:37
  been coming across it myself and I,
• 1:28:39
  I,
• 1:28:39
  you know,
• 1:28:40
  I'm part of a few communities online and whatnot as well.
• 1:28:42
  And everyone's always talking about attaching transcripts and how it helps
• 1:28:47
  your SEO or,
• 1:28:49
  for,
• 1:28:49
  you know,
• 1:28:49
  the web to be able to find your podcast,
• 1:28:51
  you know,
• 1:28:52
  via certain words and keywords and all of that.
• 1:28:54
  Um,
• 1:28:55
  I don't have time for transcripting.
• 1:28:57
  I don't,
• 1:28:57
  I don't know if you do.
• 1:28:58
  I'm sure that probably is true.
• 1:29:00
  Yeah.
• 1:29:00
  Like it's more for Googling searchy type things too.
• 1:29:03
  Right.
• 1:29:04
  but if you know the show exists and you like it and you know the title,
• 1:29:11
  you don't need the fucking transcript in terms of searching for me.
• 1:29:14
  What about...
• 1:29:15
  All right, let's just let that die where it is
• 1:29:17
  because I'm on the same page with you,
• 1:29:19
  but this is about people hearing your opinion
• 1:29:23
  and kind of your journey in the podcasting world.
• 1:29:25
  I'm going to go ahead and ask you...
• 1:29:27
  I know how I feel.
• 1:29:28
  Uh-oh.
• 1:29:29
  What?
• 1:29:29
  Video.
• 1:29:30
  Does it belong?
• 1:29:31
  No.
• 1:29:32
  so i don't need to watch joe rogan in your opinion for three hours on the on the video
• 1:29:38
  why i wonder why why is it that everybody's starting to gravitate towards video i mean
• 1:29:46
  to me you've always had youtube for that that's kind of what that is you also have rumble right
• 1:29:52
  but that's where those videos are getting posted yeah but now you also see them like spotify you
• 1:29:58
  can have a video podcast correct you can you can go to spotify play your podcast and a lot of them
• 1:30:04
  have a video option yeah like i said you don't need it you don't fucking need video it's the
• 1:30:11
  true form of podcasting is audio yeah i mean it's it's really an evolution it's like revisiting the
• 1:30:17
  old radio show right well it's like i yeah it's like but but it's just what i said when you asked
• 1:30:23
  anything less restriction because we don't have too many rules in terms of i can say fuck fart
• 1:30:28
  shit whatever right not right now i'm sure it's coming i'm sure there's gonna be a well when when
• 1:30:33
  they start regulating it then you know it's a dead medium yeah that's when you that's when you turn
• 1:30:37
  everything off and you move on the appeal has always been the rawness the straightforwardness
• 1:30:41
  and feeling like you're really part of a real conversation i i think it's all about the audio
• 1:30:46
  um so in your opinion don't concentrate on the video just build the audio side no because like
• 1:30:52
  said when you asked me about you know what else do you have an you know complaint wise video i
• 1:30:57
  brought it up you don't need it because there's no first of all 90 of them are bad at it it's just a
• 1:31:04
  one shot straight on into your forehead and like a zoom call and you're hearing people just babble
• 1:31:09
  and it's like this is there's no entertainment value there you know i just don't i just don't
• 1:31:14
  understand it it's like if we were talking i have a camera staring directly in my face
• 1:31:17
  and staring into your face and it's a wider shot or the lens is wider and it looks like you're just
• 1:31:23
  in a giant spaceship and it just loses the appeal because now your eyes are going into the
• 1:31:28
  back of the room like what's back there what does he got over there and then you're not listening to
• 1:31:32
  what's being said i think it's just it's just a turn off to me so it's it's also it also goes i
• 1:31:40
  I mean, for me, video to me isn't needed also because many people listen to podcasts when
• 1:31:48
  they're on the way to work during their work.
• 1:31:50
  So, you know, like if you're a construction worker and you're out there doing whatever
• 1:31:54
  you got to do, banging a hammer away or whatever, you can have your earbuds on and listen to
• 1:31:58
  a podcast to get you through the day, for example.
• 1:32:01
  Many people do, let's say on their break, they'll throw a show on, on their lunch break
• 1:32:06
  to listen to stuff.
• 1:32:07
  so the video doesn't always seem to come into play because if you're if you're truly working
• 1:32:12
  or driving you can't be watching the video anyway so it's almost like an extra step that people
• 1:32:17
  they they over over consume themselves with as in oh man i i got to do the video because that's
• 1:32:25
  what people want and for a lot of people beginning in podcasting it's it's something that they need
• 1:32:31
  to just abandon and just concentrate on the audios.
• 1:32:34
  You know, with that being said,
• 1:32:36
  how would you approach podcasting
• 1:32:38
  in terms of the content that you consume?
• 1:32:41
  Like, do you primarily,
• 1:32:42
  do you ever watch video podcasts
• 1:32:43
  or you just concentrate on the audio ones?
• 1:32:47
  I never watch a video podcast.
• 1:32:49
  No, I don't.
• 1:32:50
  It's, like I said, it's stupid.
• 1:32:53
  To me, it's stupid.
• 1:32:54
  I mean, I can just listen to them,
• 1:32:57
  have their conversation in the car.
• 1:33:00
  But another thing too,
• 1:33:01
  are also guys that are video only shows that put the audio on podcast platform do the opposite
• 1:33:08
  they do the opposite which is stupid because you're playing a video or you're doing something
• 1:33:14
  and i don't know what you're doing good point you know i've noticed that yeah they're like i'm gonna
• 1:33:19
  play like they're making comments and laughing like and they'll literally say oh well if you're
• 1:33:24
  on the audio part you can't see this but if you go to this link yeah you can view it why the fuck
• 1:33:30
  what i do that i'm listening i mean if i wanted to do that i'd watch you but i'm not i'm over here
• 1:33:35
  in the car so it's really almost like if you're going to do this you should concentrate on two
• 1:33:39
  separate shows one that's video and one that's audio or don't do the audio just leave it just
• 1:33:45
  just video yeah it's like it's like when you again when another the big guy joe the joe rogan guy he
• 1:33:52
  does three hours of video yeah and he puts the audio version out and you're listening to the
• 1:33:58
  audio and it's like he goes oh pull up that information sir and put it on the screen and
• 1:34:03
  they started watching a video of whatever the fuck it is and they're laughing their ass off
• 1:34:06
  and i'm like okay that's 20 minutes i'll never get back like what the fuck is that why what i
• 1:34:12
  i already can't handle three hours of your bumbling nonsense anyway so so it really is about
• 1:34:19
  know your medium know your audience and how your audience consumes your medium if the audience
• 1:34:25
  consumes strictly video, then don't even put too much effort into the audio, the podcast side,
• 1:34:31
  in my opinion, because that doesn't make any sense. Because like I say, you don't understand
• 1:34:34
  what's going on. Right. And if you're submitting your shows to podcast aggregators, then
• 1:34:39
  concentrating on the video side is just a waste of your time. And then having things in the show
• 1:34:44
  that refers to video that that person obviously can't see is irrelevant and it really disconnects
• 1:34:53
  the audience from your show.
• 1:34:56
  Yeah, it's a complete
• 1:34:57
  waste.
• 1:35:00
  You're just wasting your time
• 1:35:01
  to me anyway.
• 1:35:03
  I think if you, you know, and also
• 1:35:05
  you're focusing on two things. Focus on one thing,
• 1:35:07
  get good at that, then maybe do the other thing.
• 1:35:09
  That's just kind of the way I see it.
• 1:35:11
  You know.
• 1:35:13
  All right, so
• 1:35:14
  we're going to wrap
• 1:35:17
  this up.
• 1:35:19
  In summary, I mean, there's a lot
• 1:35:21
  of good information here, so in summary, you've got to
• 1:35:23
  put the work in
• 1:35:24
  and
• 1:35:27
  concentrate on quality
• 1:35:29
  versus quantity in the beginning
• 1:35:31
  but be consistent about
• 1:35:32
  what your episodes are in terms of what you release
• 1:35:35
  correct?
• 1:35:36
  and if you're in that category do what's in that category
• 1:35:39
  right
• 1:35:40
  and then you also said
• 1:35:42
  stop trying to compete
• 1:35:44
  yeah
• 1:35:45
  well you'll drive yourself mad doing it
• 1:35:48
  just do your own thing
• 1:35:49
  alright I'm going to take us out here
• 1:35:51
  and I'm going to say for everybody,
• 1:35:55
  let's get him to 3000 downloads.
• 1:35:57
  Please go listen to Stretch Goose podcast
• 1:35:59
  available everywhere you listen to podcasts.
• 1:36:05
  Have a good day.
• 1:36:21
  Bye.