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Nicola Willis: Finance Minister on National looking to introduce three new taxes · Best of Business

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks Be follow
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
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  Speaker 2: With us right now is Nikola Willis, the Finance Minister.
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  Speaker 3: Hime Minister, Hi, Heather, it's great to have you back
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: on the show. Than you've been unwell. Hi, I've missed you.
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  Speaker 3: I've missed you, have you though?
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  Speaker 2: It was very kind of you to say that. Listen.
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  Speaker 2: I want to talk to you about these taxes. Okay,
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  Speaker 2: So the Prime Minister said this morning there are three
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  Speaker 2: that he's considering making changes to, which is the fuel
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  Speaker 2: excise tax, the new bed tax, maybe a bank tax.
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  Speaker 2: Is that it? That's the exhaustive list.
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  Speaker 3: That is it. That is the exhaustive list. And what
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  Speaker 3: your notice is, there's nothing new there. Those are things
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  Speaker 3: that you've already heard from the government about and so
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  Speaker 3: we're simply being straight with people. It's already documented that
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  Speaker 3: as a cabinet, all three parties of the Coalition agreed
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  Speaker 3: with Auckland Council as part of our deal with them,
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  Speaker 3: that we would explore the option of an accommodation levy.
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  Speaker 3: That's already on the record. We've always been straight with
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  Speaker 3: people that the three year moratorium we put on any
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  Speaker 3: changes to fuel tax does need to come to an
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  Speaker 3: end at some time. The timing of that is yet
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  Speaker 3: to be decided by Cabinet. And then on bank taxes,
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  Speaker 3: as are three parties in the coalition, we agreed to
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  Speaker 3: a prudential levy which we announced at the budget, and
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  Speaker 3: at that time I was candid that I would keep
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  Speaker 3: looking to make sure there wasn't anything else that needed
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  Speaker 3: to be tidied up in the taxation of banks. So
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  Speaker 3: three issues we've already been very open and upfront about,
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  Speaker 3: and I can be very clear with you that there
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  Speaker 3: is nothing that we are considering that you haven't heard about.
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  Speaker 3: We are a party that believes in low taxes, as
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  Speaker 3: low as they can be, and we can keep that
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  Speaker 3: commitment because we're not out there splurging the cash, unlike
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  Speaker 3: the parties who oppose us.
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  Speaker 2: Okay bank tax what's the point of it.
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  Speaker 3: Well, the point is simply to make sure that the
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  Speaker 3: banks are facing fair taxation. And so while I've been
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  Speaker 3: behind the desk that ID have worked with them on
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  Speaker 3: a couple of issues. One was to do with where
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  Speaker 3: their branches are and how tax is treated there. They
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  Speaker 3: actually worked through a consultation process with them. Some changes
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  Speaker 3: have already been made. The second with the prudential levy,
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  Speaker 3: is bringing them into line with other financial institutions who
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  Speaker 3: pay for their regulation via the Financial Markets Authority and
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  Speaker 3: the Commerce Commission. In our judgment that it should be
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  Speaker 3: the same with the Reserve Bank. Fair enough, and so
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  Speaker 3: if you're.
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  Speaker 2: Going to yet another tax on top of the on
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  Speaker 2: top of the prudential levy, and you say that's about fairness,
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  Speaker 2: what is unfair about the situation with the banks at
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  Speaker 2: the moment they're paying the same as everybody else.
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  Speaker 3: Well, let me be clear, haven't decided to do anything extra.
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  Speaker 3: But given the experience we've had in government of when
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  Speaker 3: we did look under the hood of what's happening with
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  Speaker 3: taxation of banks, we did see those two anomalies and
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  Speaker 3: we do want to be clear that there aren't any others.
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  Speaker 3: There are still some features of our taxation of the
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  Speaker 3: four big Australian banks that are different from the way
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  Speaker 3: they are taxed in Australia. So I've been upfront that
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  Speaker 3: I'm continuing to look at that because the same principle applies,
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  Speaker 3: which is I don't want working New Zealanders facing higher
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  Speaker 3: costs because of new taxes, and so I have to
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  Speaker 3: work through that, look at that, make sure that that
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  Speaker 3: wouldn't be the result.
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  Speaker 2: Did you guys make a mistake yesterday and re announcing
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  Speaker 2: your budget responsibility rules?
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  Speaker 3: No, because those are critical to the foundations of our finances.
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  Speaker 3: And frankly, the fact that the opposition parties won't even
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  Speaker 3: commit that getting debt down is a good idea, won't
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  Speaker 3: even commit that getting the books back and balance is
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  Speaker 3: a good idea, and won't commit that only by keeping
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  Speaker 3: government spending under control can you keep taxes low? Is
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  Speaker 3: a glaring problem in the selection campaign, and I'm going
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  Speaker 3: to keep doing everything I can to shine a light
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  Speaker 3: on those issues because I think they're pivotal. I don't
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  Speaker 3: think any New Zealand that wants their government running up
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  Speaker 3: the credit card the overdraft and then turning around later
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  Speaker 3: and saying, oops, sorry, the debt collectives are here and
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  Speaker 3: we're all in trouble.
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  Speaker 2: Is the problem here not that you're going to say, oh,
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  Speaker 2: they're not prepared to do it, but you've had three
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  Speaker 2: years you haven't done it either, And all it's going
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  Speaker 2: to happen is every time you talk about this, everybody's
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  Speaker 2: going to point out and go, well, you failed too.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I'm sorry, but the last government tripled debt in
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  Speaker 3: real terms, doubled it as a proportion of the economy,
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  Speaker 3: And to somehow call a false analogy that I've done
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  Speaker 3: the same thing not true by any stretch of the imagination.
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  Speaker 3: If you look at the final year for which labor
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  Speaker 3: was responsible, twenty twenty four, net core crown debt that
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  Speaker 3: year was forty one point seven percent. The only year
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  Speaker 3: for which we have full financial results is twenty twenty five.
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  Speaker 3: Netcore crown debt for that year was forty one point
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  Speaker 3: nine percent, so zero point two percent higher on our watch, Heather.
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  Speaker 3: So to somehow say that that is the same as
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  Speaker 3: Grant Robertson, who doubled the debt from under twenty percent
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  Speaker 3: to more than forty percent, I just think is a really.
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  Speaker 2: Fine I think it's fair enough. Like what you're saying
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  Speaker 2: is they are really bad. We're only just a little
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  Speaker 2: bit bad. But you're still bad. You haven't managed to
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  Speaker 2: get us into surplus, which you promised you would do.
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  Speaker 2: You've hardly managed to bend down the debt curve, and
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  Speaker 2: you haven't got core crown expenses under thirty percent, which
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  Speaker 2: you said you would well.
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  Speaker 3: Unsurprisingly, I disagree with your analysis because I think given
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  Speaker 3: the situation that we have inherited, where one the Treasury
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  Speaker 3: had completely overestimated what would happen with the economy and
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  Speaker 3: our following COVID two, the global tariff for three global
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  Speaker 3: oil shocks are the most excuses.
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  Speaker 2: As well in the color they also make.
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  Speaker 3: What instead of make an excuse about and what I
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  Speaker 3: took complete responsibility for was our discretionary spending and my
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  Speaker 3: operating allowances far far smaller than any Grant Robertson ever delivered,
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  Speaker 3: and in fact was smaller than the operating allowances we
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  Speaker 3: campaigned on every operating allowance small In fact, last year's
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  Speaker 3: operating allowance was more than a billion.
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  Speaker 2: You never ranz never ran a Xero budget, and that's
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  Speaker 2: possible because bil English did it well.
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  Speaker 3: He did it before there was superannuation costs going up
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  Speaker 3: at an extreme rate. He did it at a time
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  Speaker 3: when the population needs and the health system went as great.
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  Speaker 3: He did it in a different time. And I stand
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  Speaker 3: by the fact that we have put more funding into
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  Speaker 3: the health system. We have put more funding into our schools,
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  Speaker 3: we have put more funding in for the police, for
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  Speaker 3: our prison serve.
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  Speaker 2: All the labor could run out. That's all I'm saying
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  Speaker 2: is that if you keep on, if you keep on
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  Speaker 2: running this thing with labor, you point one finger at them,
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  Speaker 2: full fingers point back at you, right.
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  Speaker 3: And I will keep pointing out to you that it
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  Speaker 3: is a false analogy to say that I am the
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  Speaker 3: same as Grant Robertson when those numbers are so materially different,
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  Speaker 3: and when they still have an eighteen billion dollar hidden
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  Speaker 3: bill of unfunded promises. So far they've come out with
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  Speaker 3: two major new taxes, capital gains tax and completely destroying the.
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  Speaker 2: Those well get brief for that. Listen, I have to
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  Speaker 2: ask you a question on behalf of her head stots.
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  Speaker 2: She says, there are thirty one councils who are obligated
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  Speaker 2: right now to go to their members of the rape
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  Speaker 2: payers and do what they call representative reviews, right, which
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  Speaker 2: is basically just asking them, hey, what do you think
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  Speaker 2: we should look like in the next few years. And
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  Speaker 2: she says it's utterly pointless and al waste hundreds of
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  Speaker 2: millions of dollars across all of the councils, because none
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  Speaker 2: of these councils are going to exist. Would you change
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  Speaker 2: the law to stop them having to do this?
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  Speaker 3: Well, that sounds like a very practical problem that Raheat
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  Speaker 3: is raising. I'm not the Minister for Local Government, so
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  Speaker 3: I'm not going to give you a policy announcement on
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  Speaker 3: the hope that I will certainly when I get off
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  Speaker 3: you send a message there with him, because it does
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  Speaker 3: seem like something if we can, if we can do
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  Speaker 3: something practical on that.
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  Speaker 2: We wanted to ask Simon about that, but Simon Simon
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  Speaker 2: doesn't like to come on the radio sometimes when there's
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  Speaker 2: difficult days like today. So if you pass that on
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  Speaker 2: to Simon, I'll owe.
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  Speaker 3: You every day is a good day. Heither there's a
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  Speaker 3: difficult day when you're getting to govern the country. That's right.
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  Speaker 2: You go tell us that. I thank you, Nicole. I
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  Speaker 2: appreciate it very much like after yourself, Nichola Willi's Finance Minister.
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