Latest / The You Project / #1876 Discipline Is Freedom - Nicole Liddell

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#1876 Discipline Is Freedom - Nicole Liddell · The You Project

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I'll get atm. Welcome to another installment you project. The
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Coyle Adel from the Thriving Metropolis from the Sunshine State
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: is back the PhD wonder kinned lounder kinned the accidental
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: a little bit like Jumbo Harps the accidental PhD student.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: How are you?
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  Speaker 2: I'm good? I'm good.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Is it beautiful up there? Where it's down here on
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: the Thriving Metropolis and Melbourne? It's Tuesday night. I feel
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: like I'm back on radio. It's two minutes past six
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: and it's still about eighteen degrees. Actually, let me tell
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: you right now, I'm going to tell you at eighteen
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  Speaker 1: oh two in Melbourne, right well, in Hampton it's twenty
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: two degrees and it's like it's the most beautiful atom ever.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: What is it? What is it up there?
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: We're having Melbourne weather.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: It's like one minute it's sunny and then it just
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: pisces down with rain for about five minutes.
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  Speaker 2: Then it stopped. It's currently twenty one.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Well sucked in. You should move to the Sunshine Stadium
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: also known as Victoria. Anyway, enough for that. How are you?
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: How are things good?
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm good. Things are good.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Now this is your second time on the show. You
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: had a lot of good feedback about you last time,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: so let's not do obviously the previous show again. Yeah,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: anything that I fuck up, so just filling in. Do
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: you remember what number your last episode was, give or
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: take if? Well, we got lots.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Of red in ten seconds, all right.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: You did that and not talk, So we got lots
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: of We had lots of really nice feedback about Nicole.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: And I meet this with complete love and respect. I
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: love it when we get someone on the show that
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: no one's ever heard of in inverted comments, do you
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like, of course you know people
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: know of Like, you don't have a brand, you don't
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: have a profile, you're not famous. But we got more
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: good feedback, more positive kind of input about you than
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: probably ninety five percent of our episodes. And I think
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: that is because you're relatable and your story is relatable,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: and you know, lots of shit in your life, lots
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: of good stuff, lots of peaks and lots of troughs.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: And now at the right pole age of what are
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  Speaker 1: you now? Forty one? Fifty two? Fucking hell, you are
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: a dinosaur. Fifty two.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: I'm actually you know, I'm fifty two in a couple
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  Speaker 2: of weeks.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually did think you're any forties well, and
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: at fifty two, I nutlike someone else, we know you're
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: doing you're doing your PhD. But yeah, so go you.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: And I think one of the things I love about
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: this kind of format is that, you know, I love
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: I love talking to you know, people who are a
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: big deal and people have done bloody incredible stuff and
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: been at the Olympics and written amazing books and cubed
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: cancer and you know, yeah, Forest, and that's great, and
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: it really is. And those people are, you know, inspirational
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: in their own right. But I find, you know, like
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: people like you who really you were in a hard spot,
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: a real hard spot, and nobody picked you up, and
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: nobody like you just figured it out. So yeah, what
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: episode was it?
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: One seven two?
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: One seven two? All right, So if you like this episode,
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: which hopefully you will, go back and have and listen
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: to their original and you can hear the fully detailed
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: version of the cold story. But so, how's the PhD going?
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  Speaker 1: What's what stage are you at? How far in are you?
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  Speaker 2: I am confirmation is happening in June.
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  Speaker 3: I haven't got a confirmed date yet, but I'm hoping
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  Speaker 3: for the seventeenth of June for confirmation made. Confirmation report
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  Speaker 3: is out external reviewers, My ethics for my first study is.
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  Speaker 2: Out with the peer reviewer.
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  Speaker 3: I'm probably going to submit my first paper in the next.
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  Speaker 2: Three or four weeks.
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  Speaker 1: Wow. Wow, I'm about to tell people. Tell people what firstly,
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: what academic milestones are? Do you call them? That? Is
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: that what you call so academic milestones? And specifically confirmation
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: because ninety five percent of people, their idea of confirmation
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: is a different thing to what you're talking about.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's a really interesting one because I didn't
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  Speaker 3: It took me a little while to get my head
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  Speaker 3: around how the whole thing works. So I've been doing
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  Speaker 3: my PhD for twelve months, but I'm technically not a
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  Speaker 3: PhD candidate yet.
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  Speaker 2: Until I'm confirmed.
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  Speaker 3: So it's taken me twelve months to to get to
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  Speaker 3: get to the point where so the confirmation is basically
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  Speaker 3: you're putting your research proposal forward to external reviewers for
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  Speaker 3: them to say, yes, it's viable, you can go ahead.
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  Speaker 3: And so once you get confirmed, then you become a
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  Speaker 3: PhD official PhD candidate and that's when you do your
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  Speaker 3: actual studies.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yeah, and along the way. I don't know
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: how it is. Are you at the University of Southern
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Queensland or something, Sunshine Coast, Sunshine Coast and so like
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  Speaker 1: in my PhD there's four academic milestones and putting it
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: in I don't know about yours, but putting it in
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  Speaker 1: layman's terms and like easy understand language. It's like going
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: to court and you've got to stand before a bunch
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  Speaker 1: of people that you don't know, and you've got to go,
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  Speaker 1: this is what I'm doing it. This is what I'm doing,
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  Speaker 1: this is why I'm doing it, this is how I'm
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  Speaker 1: doing it, this is what it's been done. That's kind
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  Speaker 1: of related to my research. This is why the world
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  Speaker 1: needs my research. This is how it's different. And then
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: they bombard you with questions and you go, fuck, I
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: didn't think of that, and they go, you really should,
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: and then they ask you a few things that you know.
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: And I've never felt as a professional speaker, I've never
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: felt more inadequate, more insecure, more stupid, more And you
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: know what's interesting, Nick.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: Is that, I mean, you've seen me speak many times, right,
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  Speaker 1: I'm okay, I'm not saying I'm the best, but I'm
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  Speaker 1: okay at it. And put me in front of a
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  Speaker 1: thousand people, I'm calm and I'm confident. Put me in
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: front of three thousand, I'm calm and confident. Right, Put
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  Speaker 1: me in front of four professors or three or whatever
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  Speaker 1: it is and a couple of external people, and I
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: felt so underprepared, so underwhelming for them. And anyway, I
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  Speaker 1: got through all there's four of them in my course.
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  Speaker 1: I got through all four. But I found it terrifying.
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: But yeah, well, I mean, I think the scary thing
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  Speaker 3: is that you're presenting a gap in the research and
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  Speaker 3: the people that you're sitting in front of experts in
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  Speaker 3: that field. So you're kind of saying, like, I'm you're
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: new to a field of research, and you're trying to
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  Speaker 3: tell people, you know, the people that have been doing
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  Speaker 3: it for years, that there's a gap and you want
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: to fill it.
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  Speaker 2: And so.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is, Yeah, but you'll be fine.
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  Speaker 5: And also they know you're you know, you're a brand
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  Speaker 5: new student. They don't expect you to be them, you know.
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  Speaker 5: And the people that reviewed me, they were you know,
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  Speaker 5: they were not. I mean, the funny thing is.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: The like I was, I didn't think on any level
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: I was anything special anyway, which is neither sh but
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: is more of you know, like I often go somewhere
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  Speaker 1: and I'm talking and you get fussed over and you're
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: the guy, and people you know look after you a bit.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: So there's a little bit of a tension all that.
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  Speaker 1: And it's funny in this situation. You are, well, you're
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: slightly more than a number, you know, your student even one, three, two,
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  Speaker 1: four six, and you're doing you know, a doctorate in
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  Speaker 1: this or a PhD need that, blah blah blah, blah blah.
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  Speaker 1: And the appointment time is twelve thirty and we've got
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  Speaker 1: this long in these people and ready set. And by
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: the way, I don't know about you, but we have
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: we have to do a twenty minute PowerPoint presentation. I
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  Speaker 1: fucking power point, right, I'd rather punch myself in the face.
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  Speaker 1: I'm no good and all of the things, all of
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: the things that I'm good at or that I'm skilled
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  Speaker 1: at because I've done it for a long time, are
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  Speaker 1: redundant in that situation. So being funny, building connect building rapport,
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  Speaker 1: freestyling and living, you know, just reading the room. It's
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  Speaker 1: all doesn't mean shit, Like just tell shut the fuck up.
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  Speaker 1: We don't care how funny you are. We don't care
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  Speaker 1: if you've got a million followers on this or that.
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  Speaker 1: We don't care. Just tell us about the research. We're busy,
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  Speaker 1: We're busy. Hurry.
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  Speaker 6: So yeah, yeah, So it's nerve wracking, But I'm also
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  Speaker 6: excited to get past confirmation because it means I can
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  Speaker 6: get stuck into the start recruiting for the studies.
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  Speaker 1: And what are the misconceptions that people have had? I
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: could bang on, but it's it's about you. But that
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: where that people don't understandably, by the way, this is
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: not being critical of anyone, because I didn't understand it.
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  Speaker 1: P actually really actize that. I'm like, oh, this is
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: I don't really know what I thought. But what are
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  Speaker 1: some of the misconceptions that people have when they ask
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  Speaker 1: you about your research or the PhD journey? Or because
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  Speaker 1: I've been asked some hilarious questions.
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  Speaker 3: I had a friend like, so, I started the PhD
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  Speaker 3: in March last year and she said to me, just recently.
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  Speaker 2: Have you have you finished that yet?
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  Speaker 6: No?
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  Speaker 2: And I think in her.
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  Speaker 3: Mind it was just an assignment, you know, like I
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  Speaker 3: was a twelve thousand word assignment or something or I
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  Speaker 3: don't know, and I went, no, it's a it's a three.
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  Speaker 3: She goes, oh, it's an actual degree. I'm like, yeah,
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  Speaker 3: it's a it's a minimum of three years and I've
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  Speaker 3: got to conduct you know, three or four research studies
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: and write papers. And she's like, oh, so, and like
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: you said, I didn't I didn't know. I didn't even
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  Speaker 3: know the difference between a postgrad and an undergrad degree.
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: So I the PhD for me, I had no idea
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: what it was. But fortunately, working in the research center
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: at the Union during my undergrad I kind of.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Surrounded by people who have PhD, so.
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  Speaker 3: I kind of, you know, I did have a little
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  Speaker 3: bit of an advantage there because I was, you know,
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  Speaker 3: surrounded by people in who were doing it.
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  Speaker 2: So and still am.
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  Speaker 3: So I've still got lots of people that I can go, hey,
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: how did you navigate this?
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: But yeah, which is really good.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: And I think what people a lot of people don't realize,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: neither did I right as a PhD student, especially when
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: you're doing it it's a research PhD. Where like, there
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: are no classes, there is no there are out a
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: whole of that. There are no terms, there are semesters,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: you don't have teachers per se, there are no exams,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: you don't hand it work. You kind of do, but
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: you don't really And it's like, oh is people when
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: people go to meet, oh is do you have UNI
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: this week? Like when that's like.
• 11:59
  Speaker 7: I go home, Easter Saturday is just Saturday, you know,
• 12:05
  Speaker 7: it's like yeah, people around. There are literally people in
• 12:11
  Speaker 7: my lab, the you know, brain park, the neuroscience neurocyc lab.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: There are literally people at UNI on Christmas Day. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: we're working.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, all the public holidays we've had.
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  Speaker 3: I got excited about them because it gave me more
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  Speaker 3: time to work on my PhD.
• 12:29
  Speaker 8: Yeah yeah, yeah, it's yeah, so the idea that and
• 12:33
  Speaker 8: then they're like, well how do you get And you go, well,
• 12:36
  Speaker 8: you're trying to explain to people that we actually design
• 12:41
  Speaker 8: this whole kind of research process and find you.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: Know, driven by questions that really haven't been answered in
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: this area or fully answered, or we're expanding on someone
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: else's work or opening kind of a relatively new door.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh, so you design the study, you get
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: ethical approval, you find a venue, you get your participants,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: you do the thing, then you get the data. Then
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: you try and figure out what the fuck that data means,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: and then you want to write about it and then
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: you hopefully you find something interesting and valuable. If not, well,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: you know, it is what it is. And then yeah,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: but the idea that you rock up and you do
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: a you know, you sit in a lecture and take notes,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: or you know, you hand in an assignment at the
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: end of every semester or this or that. Yeah, it's
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: a very very you know, I think in general terms,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: I don't know too much about too many of the
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: other kind of areas of research, but especially in science,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: especially in the space that you and I in's like
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: you're doing it's primarily aren't you right, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: you've got to. I mean, you've just got to be very,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: very self motivated. And I think I also think and
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: this is encouraging for people who think I'm too dumb
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: to and I'm not saying it's it's definitely not easy,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: of course, but you don't have to you think, oh,
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: you must be a genius to do a PhD. No,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: you've just got to be resilient and you've just got
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: to and you've just got to be able to do
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: the work. And it's like I think it's more about
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: your capacity to do work and get uncomfortable and keep
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: doing work and keep getting uncomfortable, and keep asking questions
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: and getting a bit embarrassed and getting a bit insecure
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: and learning a bit and you know, rather than are
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: you a genius and can you get a doctorate in whatever?
• 14:41
  Speaker 6: Yeah?
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: I know, I one hundred percent agree with that.
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's got anything to do with I mean,
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: obviously you have to have a level of intelligence and
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: you know, to have you know, some critical thinking skills
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: and all that sort of thing. But it's more about
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: being organized. Can you manage your time? Can you get
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: up every time you get knocked down? Which is a lot.
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: It's a real test of I think it's a real
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: test of I want to say resilience, But it's more
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: than that.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: It's like.
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: If you're if you're doing a PhD because you want
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: to be a doctor, or you're doing it because you
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: want to be able to have that conversation at a
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: barbecue and say, well, you know, then you'll you'll probably
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: not do it, like, you probably won't finish it because
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: if it's for the external thing, then you'll you'll fall
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: over before you even get through the first eight months,
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: because if you're looking for external validation and pats on
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: the back, you're just not going to get.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Und People have already said to me, can we call
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: you doctor Hart like joking but kind of serious but joking.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: I go, no, you can't. And even when you can,
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: you can't. I don't want anyone. I'm not being self
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: deprecating or humble. I do not want anyone to call
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: me that. Like it's okay, I'm glad, I'll.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Get Hopefully it feels a bit, doesn't it.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: I don't want it at all. Like, it doesn't. It
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: doesn't doesn't suit my personality, doesn't suit me. You know,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: if I'm being brutally honest and transparent, it certainly doesn't
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: hurt when you're working with organizations and companies to go
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: oh with. You know that our next speaker is doctor
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Craig Harper, bah bah bah cool to an audience who
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: don't know you, and then that's cool, but in my
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: general life and fuck no, I don't. I don't want that.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: So and I think that's you.
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you use it as a leverage, so you know,
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: it'll it'll look good on my resume, it'll look good
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: on my LinkedIn profile. It'll you know, if I want
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: it's the credibility.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: To get me.
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: If I want to get to somewhere, and having that
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: helps me get there, then you know, then I'll call
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: myself doctor.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: But that in that moment just remind us. So you
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: anything I fuck up, just correct me, right. But I remember,
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, when you did your undergrad one
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: of your friends kind of loaned you a few bucks
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: to be able to even apply or something because you
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: were in I think we call it technically up financial
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: shit creek at the time, and your life wasn't going great.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: You were carrying a few pounds and you're making no
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: money and you're feeling like dogshit, which is understandable. When
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: was that? What year was that? So twenty twenty five,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: now what year was that?
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: I would say it kind of hit a real peak
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: around twenty fifteen twenty sixteen, So I started my undergrad
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: at mid twenty sixteen, and I was pretty much, yeah,
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: that was I was at that point where people were
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: buying groceries for me, because wow, that's where we were.
• 18:17
  Speaker 9: Yeah, would you say, I mean, how without going over
• 18:22
  Speaker 9: too much stuff that we've covered, but it was quite
• 18:25
  Speaker 9: a while ago, so and I interviewed you, and I'm
• 18:27
  Speaker 9: still foggy on shit, but I've interviewed a million people since.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: But how would you describe your situation or your life
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: at that time.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: The first way that comes to mind is helpless, like hopeless,
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: you know, like just I'd probably say defeated, like there
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: was this real sense of like is it you know,
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: like just I couldn't see a way out? Wow, yeah
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: it was.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: I was going to say I was going to do
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: something sorry to go and finish that apologize.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: No, I was just gonna say it was pretty bad,
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: Like I did.
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: Feel like, I mean, I think I've always had this
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: kind of I've always had an internal drive to want more,
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: but I was feeling like no matter what I did,
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: nothing was changing.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: At this stage. You're in your forties, you're forty two,
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: it's true.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah around there, and.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: You don't have a degree, and you've got no dough
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: and people are buying their groceries and you were not
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: super healthy physically at that stage.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: No, And I wouldn't say my mental health was very
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: good either, to be honest.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we were Okay, okay, did you ever get
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: feel free to not answer anything you don't want to answer.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Did you ever get diagnosed with anxiety or depression or like,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: was that ever a thing for you?
• 20:08
  Speaker 6: Yeah?
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: I had.
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: I was diagnosed with CPTSD, which along with that was
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: the anxiety and some depression as well.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: So but it was TSD.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: So complex complex post traumatic stress.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Wow?
• 20:27
  Speaker 6: Yeah?
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: And so did you also feel free to I what
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: I love about these conversations and hate like I don't
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: want to go anywhere you don't want to go, so
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: shut me down with Yeah? Did you did you ever
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: think that it would get as good as it's got?
• 20:50
  Speaker 6: Now?
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: I know that your life's not seamless and perfect, but
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: like I've known you on and offer like we've never
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: been best is, but we know each other and you know,
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: like I've known you for quite a while. You came
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: to some of my events. You live in Queensland and
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: comes to Queensland talking with I think you drove me
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: to or from the airport at once or like, so
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: we know each other, but me you've seen I don't know,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: there's an energy and a lightness and an optimism and
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: a confidence about you that you know, not lego, but
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: that just you didn't have.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: I was thinking about this today because I was having
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: a chat with my son, because we have some pretty
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: deep conversations, and I just I feel like I've just
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: earned my.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Place at the table now, like I just of life, yeah, like.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: And not from yeah, just because I've not for there's
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: nothing magical about it, all fantastical about it. I've just
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: it did the hard things and it paid off. And
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: so there's this intrinsic kind of thing that comes along
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: with that that you can't money can't buy, yes, and
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: it's just this Yeah, I don't know how else to
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: explain it. It's like the intrinsic reward for me is
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: more than anything external. So any label, any amount of
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: money or any you know, accolades is nice, but it
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: actually it's just that's just the cherry on top for
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: how I feel like you're kind of you know, maybe
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: cry out, but yeah, So there's this this intrinsic kind
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: of thing where I'm like, I deserve to be here.
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: I've earned my place at the table of life because
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: I've done it and no one can take it because
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: you know that I have a lot in my life
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: felt like things get taken from me, you know, and
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: it's if if you have a really solid sense of self,
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: then it can't be taken.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: You can't.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know if this is exactly the right question,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: but it's in the ballpark, and it's going to sound
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: like a cynical, even negative question. I don't meant it
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: to be. But is it nice to not Is it
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: nice to be able to not depend on anyone? To
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: be totally self sufficient? No, I'm not saying you don't
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: want anyone else in your life where you're not might
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: not fall and live happily ever after. I'm not saying that,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: but just to be totally practically, financially, emotionally self sufficient,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: where yeah, of course you want you know, you want
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: connection and love and socialization and whatever may it come.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: It's good not to be dependent on someone.
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent. And this was the exact conversation
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: I was having with my son earlier. And it's like,
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: sometimes I do I mean, I've been now I'm probably oversharing,
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: but I've been single now for probably close to i'd say,
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: eight nine years, so there are times where I go
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: it would be nice, but it's.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: Not like my life is so.
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: Full and rich and anything that or most things that
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: I would get out of a relationship, I get from
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: my friendships or my connection with my children, or the
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: valuable work, you know, the research.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: That we're doing. And there's so much that I am.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: I'm like fully independent, but not so independent that I'm
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: an island and I'm disc connected from people, like I
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: have some really meaningful, rich relationships with people, and my
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: life's good, like I'm and I was talking to a
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: friend of mine the other day, you know, like the
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: reality is that the choices that I've made and where
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: my life has been over the years, financially, you know,
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: I was married, we had property, we had you know,
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: we had a we were building this financial future.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: It fell apart, it all went to shit.
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: Then there's a good chance I may not ever buy
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: property or own my own home again. And there's a
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: good chance that I will not ever get you know,
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: in being in a long term relationship again. But none
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: of that that doesn't even matter, because I'm still the
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: happiest I've ever been because I don't know, it's just
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: like those other things are are.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: Good, but it's not that I think.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: Also, and this is two fucking old single people talking,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: So don't pay attention to anything we say, and also
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: don't consider it advice for sure.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: No it's not no, no, not it no.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: But I think one of the interesting things is in
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: our culture I'm speaking generally, but we assume that being
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: in a relationship is better than not. Well, have you
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: had a look around? I mean, are you paying attention?
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: Because there are a lot of fucking horrible, toxic, unhealthy,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: destructive relationships and that's not being negative, that's being an observer.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: There are also some beautiful, amazing, you know, loving, compassionate
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: and passionate relationships too. But what it is to say,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's just saying that you know this plus
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: this doesn't necessary verily automatically equal that you know. And
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: so the assumption that Nicole, oh, you're this or you're that,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: but how much better would your life be with you know,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Brian or Dave or Scott or Barry, And the answer is, well,
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: it could be fucking worse, you know. Yeah, yeah, I
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: mean I don't know. I'm the same. It's like, you
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: know what I get this that such a waste, such
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: a waste. Ah, I'm like, what do you mean? And
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: then like you know, I literally had a lady tell
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: me this right about two years ago, like well meaning,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: And I said to her, you know, she she kind
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: of cornered me at the cafe. I literally sit in
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: the corner with my coffee and she's nice and she
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: didn't you know, And I said to her she was
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: drilling me, which I fucking hate. But anyway, oh, why
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: had and how coming? Didn't you ever? And wasn't there anyone?
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: And none?
• 28:03
  Speaker 6: All that?
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Right, I'm like, fuck, I don't want to be rude.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: And I said, look, honestly, I said, you might not
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: believe this, but I really like my life. I have
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: great friends, I have great connection, you know, like I
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: have purpose. I try to live my values. My work
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: is very meaningful. I have you know, da da da.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: And I said, I'm you know, I'm really really good.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: And she goes, you tell yourself that.
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: Like.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: She was trying to tell me that I'm pretending that
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: I'm happy. She goes, no, you just tell yourself that
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: to make yourself feel good because you don't want to
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: deal with I'm like, oh my god, anyway, I'm not
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: going to think what they're going to think.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Well, And it's interesting because a lot of people go.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: There must be something because you know, it's women are
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: supposed to want to be single or to be okay
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: with being single. Yeah, there must be something wrong with you.
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: So it's almost it's almost now become a red flag
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: that I've been flying solo for so long.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean I think.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: It makes me less compliant, I think is what the
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: issue is.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Do you know what, like even the idea of I
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: mean this is weird, but you get to the point
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: where you're like, I don't want anyone sleeping in my bed,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: fuck someone else in man, Like, no, I've lived by
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: myself so long. Yeah, for me, I'm not weird at all.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: For me, I'm totally normal. But I could totally imagine
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: a fly and the wall. People would be like that
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: guy is a fucking weirdo. Like like, you know, I'm
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: so comfortable with shit that other people wouldn't be comfortable.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: And I'm so like you know, everybody, you know, nothing
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: nothing fucking completely weird. But just where Yeah, even even
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: having because nobody lives in my house except me obviously,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: so even if a friend comes and stays every now
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: and then, you know, like my mate, he lives in
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: the country, and of course I love having them down.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: But it's like, oh, it's really weird for me to
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: have another human in the house overnight. You know, you
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: just be used to whatever it is that is your
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: you know, your dad alcohol.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I hear got one hundred percent agree. And my
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: dog gets all my conversation, like, he's just my best friend.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: What did you get it?
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: What did you Is he a kelpie or a border collie?
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: He's a border Collie?
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, super cute. Hey. On Monday nights,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: I'm doing a mentoring program and you know, we've got
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: quite a few this program. We ended up with fifty
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: two or three people and it's it's ten weeks and
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: every week is a different kind of theme. And Monday
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: night sorry, first week, week one. It's called Life Design
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: one oh one, and we talk about this idea nicole
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: of you know, living consciously, like you know, planning your
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: life and not not so that everything's you know, like micromanaged,
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: and there's still time for fun and silliness and bullshit
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: and bit of Netflix and you know whatever, a little
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: bit of cake and a bit of coffee or whatever
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: the fuck it is, right, but also so that there
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: is an element of oh, all right, well, I'm forty
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: five and I'm not very fit or healthy. When I'm
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: forty seven, I would like to be much fitter and healthier,
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: and maybe in a better job, and maybe you know,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: and then building a bit of a strategy and an
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: operating system to support those goals and those aspirations and
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: those intentions. Right, I'm coming to a point, and my
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: experience and observation working with lots of people is that
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: many people tend to kind of just do what they've
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: always done, you know, with their body, with their food,
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: with their habits, with their career, with their even when
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: it doesn't really in inverted commerce work. So I want
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: to talk to you about this idea of intentional living,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: living with purpose, where you go, okay, what's working in
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: my life and what isn't? Like it doesn't need to
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: be come okay. And so like I would say to someone,
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: let's talk about you and food. Has that going if
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: ten out of ten is it's a really healthy relationship,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: one is it's fucked. What's your number? And they might
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: say five, and you go, all right, well, what makes
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: it a five?
• 32:43
  Speaker 6: You know?
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: And now you and money, or you and your mental health,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: or you and relationships you know or whatever. But do
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: you feel like you did life on autopilot for a while?
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Do you like people do do you think like just
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: do you know what I'm talking about? This idea of
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: kind of just like, I'll shut up after this. Many
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: times where somebody who's like ballpark forty or fifty sit
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: with me and they say to me, this wasn't my plan.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: And I see the plan and they say, what do
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: you mean? And I go, there's no fucking plan, right,
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: There's not a plan at all. There's just an idea
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: in the back of their head of how things would
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: turn out. Yeah, went about the idea of living with
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: intention and purpose and even goals and structure and all
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: that shit.
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So I think that whole thing about living sort of.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: What'd you say on autopilot?
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: For me, it had this When I look back, there's
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: this kind of sense that I was always just slightly
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: outside of myself, right, like just doing I don't know,
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: like just doing what everyone else was doing. Or yeah,
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: I didn't really have I didn't really have an idea
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: of what I wanted my life to look like. So
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: I kind of for me, it comes down to I
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: actually just want to live my best life. I'm now
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: more than halfway through, assuming I'm not going to live
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: past a hundred.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm more than halfway through.
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: And my son always says, oh, do what you want, mom,
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: it's your eighty years, you know. And I'm like, okay, Well,
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: if it's my eighty years, then I want to live
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: the best life possible. And in order to do that,
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: I need to have now healthy connections, healthy relationships, all
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: those things. So that was, okay, well, how do I
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: do that? Will I need to address my ship. So
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: we went and did that, and then it's like, so,
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: you know, I've lost in the last two and a
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: half years.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: I've lost thirty five kilos.
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: I've maintained my weight now for about twelve months, and
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: and I'm about to start working with a new coach,
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: and I'm going to do another prep and go into
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: another fatous kind of phase.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: And and I don't really need to. I don't really
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: need to. I'm healthy, you know, but I just want to.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: There's things that I don't want to get to eighty
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: and go I wish I had of Like that's what
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: drives me. And so living intentionally, it's like, and I
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: said this to my son, just tonight.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: You need to you need to work.
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: Out where you want to be and then do the
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: things to get there, like instead of looking for I
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: think the other thing that I used to do a
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: lot of was just looking for external validation in every moment.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: So everything that I was doing so looking for.
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: And you know, when I was talking to my son,
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: he's very smart, Like he's really intellectual. He's very insightful,
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: and he lives in his head and people tell him
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: all the time how clever he is, and and but
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: he lives in this intellectual space of getting the external
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: you know, validation for that, And I'm like, would you
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: need to get out of here?
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: And who cares? Who cares? And then what so you're
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: really smart? But then.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: Yes, what are you going to do with it? Well?
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: I think that you know when you're good at something,
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: and whether it's dance or whether it's spoil or whether
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: it's like you're a smarty pant or an academic genius,
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: or your sense of self and self worth and self
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: value and identity get intertwined with that. Yeah, you know,
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: so you.
• 36:38
  Speaker 10: Go, oh, you're the brilliant one, You're the Oh you're
• 36:41
  Speaker 10: the student, you're the star, this that, or you're the footballer,
• 36:44
  Speaker 10: or you're the netballery, you're the dancer, or you're the
• 36:47
  Speaker 10: and then so that gives you a level of social
• 36:51
  Speaker 10: currency and acceptance that you think you wouldn't have without it, right, Yeah,
• 36:57
  Speaker 10: you know.
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: For me it was it's kind of similar to him,
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: I guess. So all of his friends look go to
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: him for advice because he's so he's the wise one.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: And so I think for me, a lot of.
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: My life, my value, what I believed my value was
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: was in helping others.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: So I would seek help people that need to help. Yeah, right,
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: you get the external validation. And now I'm like, you
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: could make an appointment or you know, so yeah, the.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: I think an issue, Sorry, I think an issue is
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: I could be wrong. This is what I think about you,
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: and also I think similar about myself and even still right,
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: I don't think you understood your own potential.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: Nah, No, my dear.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: I think there was a massive chasm between what you
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: were capable what you are capable. And I think this
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: is true for many many people knowing you early days.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: I think the massive fucking gap between what you are
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: actually capable of. So let's talk about possibilities, power potential, right, yeah,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: and you're thinking about what's possible for you, right, And
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: I think that it's out and this is like a
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: cognitive mind fuck. But I think what gets in the
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: way is not our absolute potential or our IQ or
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: what we're capable of, but rather how we think about
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: all of that. Yeah, and you know, even myself, I've ah, yeah,
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: I've got shit genetics. I'm dumb on this. Like you
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: hear me talk about myself like I'm a piece of shit,
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: And that's kind of like I do that sometimes even now,
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: just in case I fuck up, I've given myself a
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: get out of jail card, right, Yeah, because I'm the
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: dumb one with not very good genetics. That's just fucking
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: his way through life.
• 38:58
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: But and I don't think you need to step into
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: ego or arrogance to go Actually, I'm pretty fucking capable.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: That's that's just true. And because I think that for
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: most people, most people can do some amazing shit if
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: they can lean into their fear, lean into the uncertainty,
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: lean into the unknown, go fuck, this is going to
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: be hard. And also that's fine.
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know that was it was actually, you know,
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: over the years you have, you have conversations with people,
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: and you know, there's things that stick. And I just
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: remember being at my lowest, you know, I'm being in
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: tears on the phone with my one of my closest friends,
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: you know, really not in a good space, and she
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: just said to me, she said those words, like she said,
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: when I look at you, I see someone who's really capable.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: And I just was like, there was this moment where
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: I was kind of.
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: Like a glitch in the matrix where I was like,
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: what like capable and me in the same sentence. And
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: she wasn't referring to anything in particular, but just you know,
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: I had just never considered myself capable of anything really,
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: and it was a real turning point. It was one
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: of those It was just a few words that she said,
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: but it stuck with me.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: I think our emotions hijack our possibilities, you know, you know,
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: whatever it is, self doubt for you, fucking or mind overthinking.
• 40:47
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: You said you said before I wrote this down that
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: you had to you had to address all your own shit.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: Could you tell us like what that involved? Like, what
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: what is this ship you speak of? Grasshopper?
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: Well, I think we spend a lot of our lives,
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: and I think it comes from childhood. I think, you know,
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: we don't no one wants to be wrong, no one
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: wants to get in trouble, and so, you know, looking
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: for that external validation to For me, it was I'm
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: and I think you know, growing up with a mum
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: with some pretty significant mental health issues, I was always
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: looking for someone to tell me I was a good person, right,
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: And so I would go out of my way to
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: be a good person and then get upset when people
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: didn't like I didn't understand why people didn't kind of
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: reflect that back or I wasn't treated the right way,
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: and then so I had to Really it's that whole
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: you know, people talk about it.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: It can be shadow work or meeting yourself.
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: It's almost like the metaphor is sitting in a room
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: full of mirrors. Like because none of us are perfect,
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: and we all have blind spots.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: And we all have behaviors.
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: That are unhealthy, we're all we've all got unmet childhood
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: emotional needs that we're trying to get met in adulthood
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: through fucking dysfunctional behaviors or whatever. Yes, you can't like
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: you're not human if you don't have any of those things, yes,
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: so instead of but we spend our whole lives running
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: from them or trying to prove that they don't exist.
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: So for me, it was very much about sitting in
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: a room metaphorically of mirrors and actually looking at the
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: parts of myself that I didn't fucking like very much
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: and actually just instead of rejecting those parts of myself
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: or berating myself or going into any level of self
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: loathing for not being perfect, it just was like, and
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: I think I mentioned to you last time we spoke
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: about that self compassion stuff, it's like, you did the
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: best you could with what you had, and now you
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: know better, you can do better, and having compassion for
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: those parts of myself that were just trying to survive.
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: They were just trying to get their needs met, so
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: you know, and it's okay. The way that you did it,
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: the way you went about it, probably not the healthiest way,
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: and you've probably done yourself some damage or maybe you've
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: hurt some other people in the process. But now that
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: you've looked at it and accepted it, and it's I
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: don't reject it, and now I kind of feel like
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: this whole thing around the confidence thing.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: It's like, I've looked at every.
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: Dark corner of my psyche, so I thing you say
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: to me is going to upset me. Like you can't say, well,
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: you're this or you're that, because I'm like, yeah, and
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: I kind of I accept that and I'm doing the
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: best I can to be better or whatever. So I
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: don't have I'm not at the effect of other people's
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: opinions of me anymore because I've seen the darkest heart myself.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's so brave. That is that is
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: a whole level of self awareness that a lot of
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: people don't get to. And you're very right, like it
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: ain't about self loathing. It's about self awareness, self reflection,
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and the reparenting, you know, like it's the it's
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: those parts of us that are doing like behaviors, those
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: dysfunctional behaviors.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: They're they're the child part of us.
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: That is trying to be loved, accepted, the lude, you know,
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: So if we can have compassion for that part of
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: ourselves and it's not like it's not it's I don't know,
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: it's like, you know, I was talking about boundaries at
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: work today. You know how hard it is to set
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: boundaries with people. It's not It's actually not hard for
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: me anymore because one or two things is going to
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: happen when I set a boundary. The person's either going
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: to step up and respect it and understand that my
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: boundaries are coming from a place of self reverence and
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: mutual reverence.
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: So they're either going.
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: To step up and we're going to have a great
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: relationship or friendship or whatever, or they're not going to
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: like the boundary and they're going to fuck off.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: A worry.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: It's a win right the way, I'm good because nothing
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: changes for me.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, So what is the what is the balance between? Well,
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: where is the line between something I've been thinking about
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: later lately, and it's like, Okay, you did the work,
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: you got to the top of the mountain, you won
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: the race, you made the money, you built the business,
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: you got the PhD I'm talking about in general, right,
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: and then it's a now what a now what? It's like,
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: what is the what is the balance between? Yes, like
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: even me who talks all the time about for one
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: of a better, less wanky team, it's pretty wanky, but
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: we'll use it, you know, self optimization. How do I
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: get the most out of me my brain, my mind,
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: my talent, my resources, my genetics, whatever, my time, my money.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: How do I get the most out of me so
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: that maybe I can live a life or a version
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: of my life that's better than the current one, in
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: a version of a body that's better than the current one,
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: with an attitude or thinking that's healthier, you know, all
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. What's the balance between doing that
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: and also just having fuck off? Where it's just like
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: what or fuck? All days I should say what are
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: you doing? Fucking Like? I feel like sometimes even for me,
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: I have to go, hey, you don't have to be
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: productive today. You don't have to get anything fucking not
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: that many of these days for me at the moment
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: where I'm at. But you know, as soon as I'm
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: through this phase of my PhD stuff, you know, But
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: where the balance between being proactive and productive and effective
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: and high performing and ticking boxes and exploiting your opportunities
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: and your talent and fuck yeah, but also just laughing
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: at silly shits and being a normal, regular human. Is
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: there a balance for you? Well?
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: I think it comes down to what the what's driving it?
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: So when I first started my undergrad degree, I was
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: trying to prove that I wasn't all the things.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: That people said I was right because I got divorced
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: and my ex husband said to me, yeah, you're just
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: You're just going to be a single mum. That's all
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: you'll love would be. And I was like, fucking watch me.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: So yeah, so in interrupt and I interrupt. Do you
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: think that's a good thing? Rarely speaking when you're your
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: driver is basically to prove someone wrong.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: No, well, this is where I'm this is where I'm going.
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: So when when the drop, when the driver is where
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: you're running away from who you are rather than running
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: towards a better version of yourself. So there was a
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: point where I was pushing so hard to be different,
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: to prove whatever that I made myself really unwell right
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: because I was working, I was burning the candle at
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: both ends and fuck you all and I'm going to
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: prove you all wrong and blah blah blah, and all
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: I did was made myself really sick. That was when
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: I put on heaps of weight. I ended up in
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: hospital with a stomach hernia and like it was just
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: and then I shifted to I'm actually what I'm actually
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: doing is moving towards instead of moving away from from
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: a version of myself.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: That I loathed.
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm now moving towards a better version of myself.
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: And I don't know what that is, but let's just
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: see how it shows up.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: And so.
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: If I and now, my health is really important to me.
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: So I push and push and push, and then I go.
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: Then everbody goes or my brain goes, yeah, not today,
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: And so I just I won't.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: Right, I wait, right, I want you to, so you
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: tune into that, you know, for one of a game
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: like that in a wisdom, that kind of internal sat
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: nab that's kind of guiding you and gently kind of going, hey,
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: maybe not today, maybe tomorrow. So you pay attend to that.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And when I'm on, I'm on like when i'm
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: when I'm in, Like you said to yours, I actually
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: sat too many hours on the laptop yesterday. But I
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: was on a roll and I was and I was
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: in flow and I was being really productive and then
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: I was like, eh, I'm going to take it easy
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: today because I pushed yesterday. Because it's always going to
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: be there, like there there's no one's going to die
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: if I don't finish the PhD in three years. No
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: one's going to die if I don't. You know, what's
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: the worst thing that can happen?
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: And upset? Hey, can I give you a compliment?
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: Sure?
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: How many podcasts have you been on in your life?
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: Like episodes? Like so this is two on this one?
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I've done two with Tiff, Yeah, and I've done
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: maybe three others.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: So you've done seven interviews or podcast chats in your life.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: So you're very very good at this, and I should
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: probably tell you that off air, but I'm going to
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: tell you on here.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: Should I have my own podcasts.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: You should, Well, I tell you why you're great because
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: there's no bullshit, there's no person, there's no razzle dazzle
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: like I asked you, like look, and I'm not. I
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: mean most of my guests are somewhere close to that.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: But there are people that come on and it's it's
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: very nicely. I'm ungrateful. This is the problem in my mind,
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: I just ship comes out. No, But there have been
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: people on that I get off and I'm like, not many,
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: but that was bullshitty, Like that was just you know that?
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: So no, that was somebody doing a public appearance of
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: saying all the things they think they should say. But
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: what I love about you is, you know, so you're
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: on this academic journey, which is great, this personal and
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: professional development kind of path that you're on, which is amazing,
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: but you're also you've been an experiential learner at the
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: cold face of life, doing shit super hard. Right, So
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: I definitely think you you could do. Do I think
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: you should. I don't know that's up to you, but
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: could do? I think you could because I think what
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: people value, especially I don't know not all people, of course,
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: but I think my listeners value not necessarily me, but
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: they value conversations that they know. There is nothing scripted,
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: there is nothing choreographed. They clearly don't have a fucking plan,
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: which you said. I sent a message to you, said
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: do you want to do a podcast later? And you went,
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: you're funny or whatever. I went, well, whatever, you know,
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: I'm a little bit disorganized lately, like the next few
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: days a chuck a block with pre organized guests. But
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: and I said, anything, you have you got any ideas
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: for where you want to go what you want to
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: talk about? You went nope, And I went gide up
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: see you at six, right, and even before we started,
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: like we spot for one or two minutes, I'm like,
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: oh fuck this, let's just catch up. Let's catch up
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: while we record, right, Yeah, And you know, there was
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: no we didn't have any discussion about what we were
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: going to talk about. So you're very I just think
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: I want to recognize that, you know.
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: Thank you, and I appreciate that because I think what happens, well,
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: what happened for me is I became so exhausted from
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: trying to be whatever I was going to be accepted
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: or what you know, like turning yourself inside out to
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: impress or to have you know, I mean I probably
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: did it with you you over the years, you know,
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: all the workshops and that. Yeah, I'm doing really well,
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: you know, like I don't even fucking care anymore. Like
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: it's just it's like it's exhausting. It's exhausting to live
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: life not being you and not being authentic. And I
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: have no doubt that my age has a lot to
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: do with it. And you know, they people joke around
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: how menopausal women kind of don't give it lying fuck
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: about anything, And it's because.
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: Our hormones change it. We're no longer as agreeable as
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: what we used to be.
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: And I'm sure that that has a lot to do
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: with it, but I don't think it's a given that
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: that's going to happen for people. And I think that
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: it is doing the work, and it is looking at
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: the stuff, And you know, I just want if I've
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: lived my whole life wanting people to see me and
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: recognize me for being a good person or being whatever,
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: then I have to show up but authentically. Otherwise, any
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: compliment I get, or any feedback, it's it's external feedback
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: I get. It's not really valid anyway, because if you're
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: not being authentic, then what are you getting feedback on?
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: Like, yeah, and you know the irony, the irony of
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: trying to impress people by you know, manufacturing some how
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: you think they will be impressed, Like, what do I
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: need to do to be impressive? Yeah? People see that now, Like,
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: and the irony is the thing that you want, which
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: is to be impressive. You're pretty much the opposite. And
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: then when you finally give up with being the people
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: pleaser and the whatever and you're like fuck it, I'm
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: just going to be me, Then people like you more anyway.
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and the people and the people that you
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: have in your life sorrow that as well. So like
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: my friendships are all really meaningful, genuine authentic friendships because
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: we're all we're all the same. I can't be around
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: I can't be around fake anymore.
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: I just look.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know it's that.
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: It's and perception management. So trying to manage other people's
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: perception of you is fucking exhausting.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: Someone should do a PhD in that.
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm doing, that's what that's what you're doing.
• 56:23
  Speaker 8: What you're doing, Yes, exactly, exactly understanding how it says.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: Now there would be reticent and meat. Let's see if
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: you can answer this in one minute, because I want
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: to kind of send you on your I don't want
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: to keep you forever. But you said ten to fifteen
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: minutes ago you lost thirty five kilos in the last
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: however long, and there are people listening to this going
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: ask her about that. How did you do that? And
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: also how does a menopausal woman lose lots of You know,
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying anyone needs to or sure, don't fucking
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: send me, but you did lose thirty five k's give
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: us slight the sixty second synopsis of how you did
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: that and why it worked.
• 57:04
  Speaker 11: This time, I was introduced to a completely different concept
• 57:11
  Speaker 11: of eating, which was not starving yourself.
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: Wow, took a thought.
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: So I gave that a god under a guidance of
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: some coaches, and was very kind of hesitant. But like,
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: I lost thirty five kilos eating around nineteen hundred calories.
• 57:32
  Speaker 3: But which is you know in my mind, you know
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: in the past you always had to eat twelve hundred
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: calories to lose anyway, So strength training, I was like,
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: I need as much muscle as I can possibly put
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: on my body so that I can eat more food.
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: And so strength training eating tracking my food.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: And I just enter up.
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: I just tell people why being muscle matters is because
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: must what we call metabolically active. And so what that
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: means is, let's say we had two identical Nicoles, and
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: let's say out about what you way, I don't want
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: to know, but let's say we've got a seventy kilo
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: Nicole who's strong and jacked and got lots of muscle,
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: and her twin sister, who's also seventy k's with the
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: same genetics, doesn't weight train. She's the exact same weight,
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: but her body fat percentage is higher and a lean
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: tissue percentage is lower. Same weight, genetics, same body. Essentially,
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: that's done different work. Well, the more muscular seventy kilo
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: version of Nicole needs more calories per day just to
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: break even, so muscle muscle is actually a metabolic advantage.
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: So yeah, so strength training tracking, Uh, discipline, doing the
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: things even when I didn't really want to do them.
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: Discipline is freedom for me now, so yeah, that's how
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: I did it, Just commitment.
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: That the show. Discipline is freedom.
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: Discipline is freedom. Consistent imperfect action.
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: Wow, oh hang on consistent imperfect action. I probably shouldn't
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: write this down as where, but anyway, fuck it. Hey,
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: how can people connect with you if you want to
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: be connected with or but I don't know, Like, I know,
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: I don't know on socials. I know you're on socials.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: I don't really most of my socials are private.
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: But I mean LinkedIn is probably if you want to
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: if you're interested in like where I'm going with my
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: research and all that sort of thing. So LinkedIn is good.
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: Nicole Adele on LinkedIn, you can send me a request
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: on Instagram Nick underscore Laddel, I'm not on there a
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: hell of a lot.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I realize I haven't asked you at all
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: about your research. Well, you'll have to come back and
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: tell us. I mean, I know we did the first time,
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: but just quickly before we tell people what your research is.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: About, it is, I'm looking at intimate partner violence, specifically
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: the use of technology to perpetrate intimate partner violence, and
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: I'm looking at how we systemically respond to it. So
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: we're looking at the system's responses to like what enables
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: it systemically and how we can address it.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: That is so important, that research and so unfortunately relevant.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah you all right, we'll say goodbye a fair bit.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: You're a gun. Congrats and and talk again.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: All right. Thanks Tops,