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Christy Piper: How to Write About Difficult Topics · The Daily Writer

• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Rider.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Each weekday we bring you a short lesson that helps you live out the four practices of a great writer.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Creativity, consistency, courage, and connection.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Here on the weekend edition, we take a deeper dive into those topics through conversations with writers, as well as teaching that helps us apply what we're learning.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: For more, you can visit us at dailyriderlife.com.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: When you're writing straightforward how-to content, or perhaps you're writing for clients, it's pretty easy to put your mind in third gear and follow a standard formula.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: But what happens when you're writing about highly emotional or sensitive topics?
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: How can you communicate effectively, but also do it in a way that honors you, the subject, and your listeners?
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, my guest today is here to walk us through this delicate situation.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Her name is Christy Piper, and she's a human dynamics, mindset, and relationship expert.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: She's developed strategies to rise above her circumstances and teaches that you don't have to stay stuck in the same predicaments in life.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Christy emphasizes that you can level up your relationships and get what you deserve, and ultimately you can choose your role in life.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Christy just released her first book, which is called Girl You Deserve More: How to Break His Spell Over You, Escape Your Toxic Partner, and Become Independent.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: And in our conversation, we're going to explore why writing about difficult topics is hard and how to write about those kinds of topics effectively.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Christy also shares what she's learned about book marketing from her recent book launch, so if you're an introvert who typically doesn't like marketing, you're definitely going to appreciate her advice and her strategies.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: I first got to know Christy several years ago when we were in the same group as part of a program called Tribe Writers, which was created and led by the amazing Jeff Goines.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Back when I first got to know Christy, I was really impressed with her communication skills and her kindness and her empathetic spirit.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you're definitely going to see all those in our conversation.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Now, before we get into the interview, I want to take a second to mention that Christy has made available a couple of fantastic resources.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, she's created a free download on how to write about difficult topics.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: And second, she's offering a free 15-minute consultation for anybody who would like further guidance on writing about difficult topics.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: And you can find links to both of those in the show notes.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: All right, let's get right to the conversation with the amazing Christy Piper.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Christy, welcome to the Daily Writer Podcast.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: It is a thrill to have you here.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks for taking time out to join me this morning.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's great to talk to you again, Kent, after so so many years.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: I know it has been a few years.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we are here to chat about your amazing new book called Girl You Deserve More: How to Break His Spell Over You, Escape Your Toxic Partner, and Become Independent, Heal and Become Your Best Self.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that that book title is great because it makes a great promise and it also dives into some really personal things that I know a lot of uh a lot of women are dealing with.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: So can you walk us through a little bit how this book came about and the story behind why you wrote it?
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so basically, I've always wanted to write books.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: I was actually one of my degrees in college was in creative writing, and I just figured I'd always write.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um I didn't know where to start though.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: I had so many different ideas for what I wanted to share with the world.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I I just take my past experiences and um, you know, try to analyze them and help others like who are going through the same thing or similar.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so I figured um, you know, this one could probably help people the most, and that's why I decided to start with this.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: So you're you're writing about some really difficult topics in the book, and obviously a lot of this is very personal for people.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you think doing a book like this well, maybe it's not harder necessarily, but what makes it difficult to write about challenging topics like this as opposed to something that's more say like a straightforward business kind of a book or a you know, seven steps to do XYZ type of a thing?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Is there something about this kind of a book that doesn't make it different or more challenging?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so one thing I would say is you have to kind of get over the experience, like emotionally in a lot of ways, before you can actually write about it.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, some people have asked me, hey, I want to write a book um about the relationship between me and my dad or something like that.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: And they'll ask me how, you know, but I sit down at the computer and I just get so angry when I start, like I can't even do it, even though I I want to share it with people and I know it'll help others.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Well, you know, you're not completely over that yet, and you have to go through that first, um, to where you'll feel comfortable actually sharing, um, first of all, and secondly, to where you're actually coming at it from a good angle and a good space, because if you're angry still, um, that's gonna come across in your writing.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: And people don't really want to read that, I feel like.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, for example, even when I was in the situations I talk about in the book, um, I would pick up somebody's book, and you know, sometimes it was a bestseller, like they've sold, you know, tons of copies.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: They write articles on medium all the time, and they're you know, a known expert, and everyone's like, oh, this is a great book, but I start reading it and I'm like, wow, this person sounds so angry.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't really know if I want to be taking advice from them, like, you know, like they're obviously not coming from a better place now.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I, you know, it's it's I feel like it's a turnoff for a lot of people.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: So is there go ahead.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, in addition to not being able to analyze the situation clearly.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, how can somebody capture the emotions of the moment and and really remember the things that they're going through in the in in the middle of that situation while also waiting to write about those?
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that can be difficult.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: I would say if they're not in a place to write it yet, they can start taking notes about it.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: So while they're in the situation, they can keep a diary, take notes about it, or even like when they're still angry about it for sure.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um but you'll you'll still remember things later on.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when you're doing your outline for your book, like you will remember the most important things, and then you'll start remembering details, they'll come up.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I even if you didn't write a thing down, I still think you would remember a lot of the important information.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it sounds like that journaling could be a great tool to use while you're going through a situation so that you you can remember basically the details, feelings, emotions, situations, so that when you write that eventual book, you'll have all that to draw upon.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: Would you say that's that would be a good strategy is is journaling, keeping track of those emotions, um, those kinds of things.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Journaling, um, if you want to do it daily, or even just keep if you know you're a writer and you know you want to write about these in the future, even just having um, for example, in my phone, I just have a notes, I use the notes app and I have different folders for ideas, like on different topics, and I just kind of make notes in those throughout the day or the week, whenever something comes up, or I remember something, um, or even if it's happening right then.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you're walking through a bookstore or even just walking down the street and you'll see something that'll remind you of an idea and you'll just write it down then.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: How do you know when when the time is right to start thinking about writing a book around a difficult topic?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say you're you're in a, of course, in your in your situation, your book is about how to basically escape a toxic relationship.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: But what about some other situations?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say somebody is battling an addiction of some kind, maybe they're battling depression, maybe they're going through a horrible financial crisis or relationship crisis.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, maybe they're going through a job search that's not turning out well, or whatever this, whatever the situation may be.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: How can someone know when it's the right time to start a writing project?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: If if you haven't maybe totally gotten over those emotions or it's still a little bit raw, would you recommend waiting a while?
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you think there is some validity to still maybe diving into it even though you're not totally quote unquote over it?
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah, I would say, I mean, maybe you'll never be totally over it.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, am I totally over it?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really know.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what's a hundred percent over it?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, right.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: So in that case, I would just um if you feel the need to share, like you can start writing, I would just sit down and start writing and see what happens.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're able to start getting through the words and you're not getting like really triggered or upset, I think you know that's a great time.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it actually does help to have those emotions because it can fuel your writing a little bit.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, if they're overwhelming to where if you think about it or talk about it, you're sobbing or um, you know, getting really distracted with those emotions and that's getting in the way.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, you look at your writing and you see it's really angry.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's not, I don't think that that's a good place to be coming from.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: So that's how you know if you need to wait a little longer.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's that's great advice.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I have a friend right now who is working on a book about it's about a topic that she's not writing directly about this um abusive relationship that she's just gotten out of.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: But the topic of the book is related to it.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't really say anything more than that because it's her own, that's her own story to tell.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: But one thing that I know she's wrestling with right now is how much detail to include in the book about certain situations or certain people or things like that.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have any thoughts on how much detail to include about other people, about your own situation, about your own journey?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because those details can really make a story great.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: It can help people, but but then there are other times where including details might be dangerous to yourself.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they could prompt legal action, I suppose, in some situations.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have any thoughts on how somebody can think through that potential mess of how much personal details should I include when I'm writing about these hard topics?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, first of all, I didn't use anybody's name.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: So every name you see in there is fake.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I made a key of like who's who before I even mentioned the name.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I could keep track of everybody, first of all.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, another thing is don't worry about that in the draft.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, don't worry about embarrassing yourself and revealing too many details when you're first writing things down because that can get in the way of even starting.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: You'll think, oh my gosh, yeah, you know what I'm talking about.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um so you'll be thinking, what can I?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, this is gonna be embarrassing.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I don't know if that person would want me to say that.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so you get like really self-conscious, and you know, when you're trying to get your ideas down on paper, that's not productive whatsoever.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so during the first draft, what I would do is just write the key for the names out when you when they come up in the story, you know, for examples that I used in my story.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I mean, I do use myself, but that's the only person you're gonna know who the real identity is.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then when I start thinking about a friend, I'm like, oh yeah, that that story, okay.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Her name's gonna be Jennifer, okay.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I just keep track of all that on a separate sheet.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: That is genius.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: I have never heard of that before, but that could be really, really helpful.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you should like put together a course on how to do this, honestly, because that is such a helpful strategy that, and and you could apply that to a lot of different things as well.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, anytime that you're using uh stories in a book that do involve details of other people, but you can't reveal their names.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that that could apply.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: Gosh, I'm thinking of a couple clients that I'm working with right now where they're wrestling with what to what to include, what not to include in terms of uh like financial details of of things or uh business dealings that they've had.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they don't want to embarrass somebody or you know, embarrass themselves in some situations.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really good.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you sharing that.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: Now, one thing that I also want to ask about is um how you actually got through the first draft of this book.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: So this is not like a short little book that's you know like 50 pages stretched into 150 or something like that.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: This is a a legit full-length book.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I hope that you don't feel insulted with me saying that, because there are a lot of books, and I'm not picking on this space, but there are a lot of books in the business and relationship space that are kind of like, you know, this could have been boiled down to like 30 pages and it would have been a lot better.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: But this is a true full-length book packed full of lots and lots of good stuff.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: So walk us through uh your timeline of creating the outline and the idea for this book, but also creating the first draft because that's where a lot of people can easily get hung up.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would say the planning for this book, um, you know, I did an outline and I tried to follow it, but I what I realized was there's so many other important things in it, um, or that I didn't even put in the outline that need to be in the book.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so I kept adding and kept adding and kept adding.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I wouldn't say that this was the ideal process, but with this type of topic and the scope of what I wanted to cover, um, yeah, it would have been really hard to get everything down on the outline, you know, within the first before even starting it.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes you don't even know, yeah, you don't even know what needs to be in there until you start writing about something else on the outline.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Then you go, Oh, yeah, I should have included this other thing.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then of course, there's a lot of sections that are related, um, and you don't want to repeat yourself.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I did definitely repeat myself a few times.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I caught myself.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you'll catch yourself in future drafts again, like during the rough draft phase, you're just putting everything down on paper without um, you know, overanalyzing what you're writing because you don't want to stop the flow of ideas, right?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so that's something you don't really worry about during I at least I didn't worry about during my first draft.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: I just got all the ideas down.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: I kept adding to my outline, um, you know, without apology.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then I took some time away from it, um, you know, to make sure everything was in there.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I did end up adding a few other sections um during my second draft for sure.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like I, you know, I took a few weeks or it might have even been like over a month away from the draft.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then when I came back to it and I just reread everything, I was like, okay, um, I repeated myself here.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: I need to add this part here, or I didn't talk enough about this part here.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so really like the second draft and the third draft is really where it's starting to really come together.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and don't be afraid to add more information in later.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then also, like before I sent it to the editor, I realized, oh my gosh, my book is too long.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was over 60,000 words.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, it ended up being really long.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I ended up taking out like a couple of entire sections, and I know at least one of those sections could just be like a book in and of itself.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: A shorter book, but definitely still like a full-length book.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, it was really hard to decide what was necessary in this draft.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, in this um in this specific book in the series versus what else I could leave out for another book.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: So you would say that getting that all-important first draft was really a critical step for you?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like in your mind, when you got that first draft done, was that something where you sort of feel like, hey, this is um this project is is locked in in the sense of you you're really feeling good about it, you feel a sense of accomplishment, you can kind of take a little bit of a breather.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: Does getting that first draft really help you in that regard?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: I would say it helped a lot, but I knew it still needed a lot of work.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: But like I would definitely say getting that first draft down is the biggest challenge.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: And after that, you just know it's just a matter of time before you publish.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, for sure.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, another thing that I had um for my specific topic, um, you know, you said like, is you know, it being harder uh since it's like around an emotional topic instead of like, oh, how do you do like X, Y, and Z?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you have to figure out like how much motivation you need in there and then how many like logistical steps to put in there.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, okay, so is it all logistical steps or is it like mostly motivation, or is it half and half?
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: And like, where are they at emotionally and mentally to where like I can reach them?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like what what slack do I need to help them pick up?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: What do I need to remind them of?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: Or are they just like totally ready to go?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, where is their mind space at?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something you really have to consider.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Man, that's that's true.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: This is so good because you've you've put you're giving us a lot of great tips, but I can also tell you've put so much thought into the reader's journey in this book about, you know, when they're in this part of the book, they're gonna be thinking about this, or they're emotionally here, probably.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's that's really good.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: And we can apply that to all different kinds of genres.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: Now, one thing that I want to ask about is your marketing for this book.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: And before I hit record on this, uh, I had to laugh a little bit because I know a lot of our readers are gonna, a lot of our readers, this isn't a book, this is a podcast.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I get for recording on Monday morning.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: My brain is not quite engaged.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: We're all writers, so that's good fingers, too.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for the thank you for the grace.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a writer, not a podcaster.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm basically a a ghostwriter and an author who happens to have a podcast, as opposed to a professional sounding podcaster who also happens to write books.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's like two different skill sets.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: And most of the time with this podcast, I feel like I'm sort of barely hanging on producing something that's hopefully uh hopefully decent.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: And this is why I have good guests like you, because it it elevates the quality of this show so much.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Ken, you're only so humble.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: Ever since I knew you from when we met like 10 years ago, I always thought like you're you're really talented and you always have so much to offer, but you're so humble.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, thanks.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so anyway, I'm I'm laughing because before I hit record on this conversation, you mentioned that we should talk about how to talk about book marketing for people who hate book marketing.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, you know, that's a really, really good phrase.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of our listeners are going to relate to that on some level.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love for you to talk about how you have thought about marketing this book and some of the things that you've done to help get the word out about it.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because uh how long has the book officially been out?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: About a month or so, three weeks, four weeks?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would say about three weeks.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you have an immensely impressive something like 60-some reviews on Amazon, which is really, really unusual for a book to have that many reviews that fast.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm super curious about what you've done.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so yeah.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: So um, as many of you guys know, um, being writers and authors, especially if you published a book so far, you probably realize that a lot of people don't like to leave reviews.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, they don't, I mean, they might have loved the book, but they don't really see it as vital.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: To the book's success, you know, they're not thinking like that because they don't know.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: They it's you know, they haven't done it, so they don't really know how important it is.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: They're just like, oh great, I love the book, and they might even send you that feedback, but they're not posting about it on you know Amazon or Goodreads.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: So what you really need to do if you want to have a lot of reviews, because there's something with the Amazon algorithm where if you get at least 25 reviews in the first week, they promote your book more or something like that.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't know like the secret sauce, but I know it's 25 reviews within the first week.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's like a magic number.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: So what you want to do is um assemble a launch team.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: And what I mean by that is hopefully everybody here has a community of other writers and authors that you converse with on a regular basis, um, sharing resources or just um, you know, chatting with, because it's really hard to go at this journey alone.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I absolutely agree.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, whenever you're getting ready to launch your book, um you can tell your fellow authors about it and say, hey, I'm launching this book.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um would you I wouldn't give an exact date because um a lot can happen.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um uploading it to Amazon, um, you know, something's up with the cover design or the formatting, and Amazon doesn't accept it.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's a lot of little issues you're gonna run into.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it can happen to all of us.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was gonna say, especially as a first-time author, but I mean, I'm sure um even you know, like even if after your second, third, fourth book, you could still run into an issue.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, uh yeah.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Amazon is super, super picky about stuff, and I'm actually glad that they are because you want your book to look really good.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: You want the formatting to be correct, but there are so many little things that have to be correct with the formatting, with the layout, with the cover, with the artwork, and all that, that uh that yeah, it's not unusual at all to have to submit a book two or three times to get it right.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so I wouldn't give them an exact date for that reason, um, unless your book is on pre-order, which I did do, but even still, you just never know.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so you just say, hey, you know, I have this book coming out, like um, if you would, you know, um, if you could support it by purchasing a copy um, you know, during the first week and leaving a review that first week, that would be really helpful.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then offer to do the same thing for them as well.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I mean this I wouldn't do this to people like you don't know um very well, right?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, even I think with you, like I reached out to you because I'd known you a while back, but I kind of after I did that, I felt pretty bad about it.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh wow.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I you know, it seems like all I'm doing is talking about myself, and that's like not really that great, even though I know like I have a lot to offer and I would do the same in return, like it still might come off as not so great.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I mean, I get I guess you could look at it that way in a sense, but I just felt like, hey, this is cool.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: She's got a book out.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it's awesome.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: And what can I do to to be supportive, you know?
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, like one thing that I have learned that, and this is I don't want to go down a whole side road necessarily, but one thing that I think is important in our in our social media age and in an age where we all have lots of things happening and and we all have busy lives is I kind of think it's important to suspend judgment about people and about situations that we don't sometimes know the full story about.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and I've had, and I'll give you a perfect example.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I don't want to go down the whole side road and derail the awesome stuff that you're sharing with us, but um, so I have a prospective client that I was um that was about to sign a contract with me, and uh we had agreed, and she'd actually signed the contract, and I was waiting for the first payment, actually.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: This has been just a couple weeks ago, and um I was really excited about this book, and and this this person didn't they didn't answer like my follow-up emails for like several days, and I started to to kind of get a little irritated in my own spirit and wonder what like what what the deal?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: What's the deal?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: Why aren't they answering this?
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, are they disorganized or whatever?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, then it turns out they actually were involved in a personal situation that had like totally eclipsed their whole life in the the last the previous week, and so they had very, very good reasons for not emailing me fast.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I tend to be kind of impatient, so I'm constantly learning, you know, you can't you can't make assumptions about things, and it's best to not get been out of shape about stuff.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it's good to just say, hey, I'm glad we've reconnected.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: How can I help you?
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: And let's let's do this thing.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: So absolutely, and you know, you always had such a generous heart, and I think that that's the best way to keep it um for everybody listening.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's like people remember that, and even though people might ask you for favors, a lot of them are gonna do the same thing for you.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, when the time comes, absolutely, and they just remember you like, hey, you're generous.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: You I know he would do this for me, and I would do it for him too.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, and honestly, how long does it take to leave a review?
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if we're writer, if we're all writers, like this is a thing that we do.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it's like I sort of feel like if you have people in your circle who are launching books, you you kind of owe them to be supportive, unless they're a total jerk or unless it's a book that is like this horrible book or something.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think we kind of owe it to each other to be supportive because this is what we do.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you're a writer, you should write.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: And plus, there's a little thing where when you leave a review, uh many times when I'm doing a review uh on Amazon or somewhere else, I'll put the review, then under that I'll put my name and I'll put, you know, can't stand there's a ghostwriter or something like that.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, reviews can also be a way, they can be a way that you can promote yourself, not in like a weird way, but you can just say, hey, this is what I do.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: And reviews can be a fantastic way to connect with potential readers or clients or whatever.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, because if you leave really good reviews, they'll start maybe following your reviews and then they'll be interested in your books next or hiring you as a ghostwriter.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: So so you did the the 25 reviews launch week, then how did that get bumped up, bumped up to like 60 some reviews so fast?
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Was that just the Amazon algorithms, or did did you have additional people beyond the first 25 also leave reviews?
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so here's the deal.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I, you know, not everyone who you're gonna ask is gonna leave a review, and not because they don't want to.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, even if they mean they're well-meaning and they want to do it the first week, things come up.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, like things come up, they forget uh what happened to me was actually um I launched on a Sunday because I'd heard somewhere, oh, Sunday's a great day to launch.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so what I didn't think about is a lot of people aren't checking their email on a Sunday.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so I sent the email out on Sunday.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I, you know, I didn't send out a lot of emails or messages leading up to it, like, hey, my book my book launches in five days, it's in four days, it's in two days, you know.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't one of those people.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I didn't want to, you know, annoy people before they even had a chance to get the book or uh forget to get the book right.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just sent out the email and I'd noticed like, oh wow, a lot of people like some people were saying it was going into their junk mail because I used mailer light, um, which I hadn't really used before.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was like, oh my gosh, like people aren't getting this email.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I I panicked a little bit, but you know, people are gonna come through, like your fellow writers and authors and the people who want to support you will come through.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: So all it takes is um, you know, you can just reach out to them via um text message or LinkedIn message or um Facebook Messenger or whatever you have them on and and kind of say, Hey, did you get the email?
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so a lot, you know, that takes a little time, but they'll fish it out of their um their junk mailbox or whatever emails they just hadn't gotten to yet.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, just a little nudge um, you know, through another channel sometimes helps a lot.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so I actually ended up having about 80-ish people on my launch team.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, I I hit the 25 reviews during that first week.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, there's still some people who haven't had the chance to finish reading the book.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: They're they want to read every word of the entire book, which is fine.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, some people are like that.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I s I did send a review copy out ahead of time to most people who joined the launch team.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, okay, you can read this ahead of time that way, you know, if it takes you a long time to read it, or if you want to read every word of the book, um, you know, you you can do that.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: Still, you know, be ready, ready to go.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like that first day or week.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: That totally makes sense.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: I I guess it is funny, you know, the people who feel like you have to read a whole book to kind of leave a review.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's because I've been in this game for a while.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I just kind of um maybe it's because I also write a lot of book blurbs, like for many times, you know, for clients, I will write blurbs for their books.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then I mean it's such a common practice where a lot of times the blurbs you see on books are not actually written by those people.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: They're sometimes tweaked, sometimes not tweaked, but it's a deal where that's just part of the publishing game is you know, to get people to leave endorsements and reviews or blurbs for books.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, if you want something from them, a lot of times you have to say, hey, here's a blurb.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: Is this cool?
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: Can we put your name on this?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: Or can you tweak it?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I think that is disconcerting to a lot of people because they feel like it's not like legit, but you know, that's just kind of how the game is played.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: And and if if somebody wants me to leave a blurb for a book, like if they're asking me for an endorsement, not a review, then a lot of times I'm like, hey, yeah, send me something and I'll I'll redo it or a little bit or something.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that that is helpful for sure.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: So you've done an impressive job with with marketing this.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's a great launch team.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and I'm sure though that it was exhausting following up with that many people and just trying to stay on top of all this.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: It was, especially for me.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I'd never done anything like this before.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm not a very self-promotional person at all.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't yeah, so everything about this was really new to me.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, you know, just but just remember like where you were at.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like if somebody was asking something like that of you, um, you know, I just try to remember like, don't take anything personally and people forget, people have their own life going on.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and they appreciate the reminders.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, some people were saying, like, oh, I don't remind people because I don't want to bother them.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I was like, you know, some people need the reminder and they appreciate it because they promised something and they wouldn't have promised if they didn't want to do it.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, that is so true.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, we have a lot going on, and people do forget things, and sometimes you gotta follow up two or three times.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's like my wife asking me, Hey, can you like pick up your shoes?
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, two three days go by.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, can you pick up your shoes again?
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we all just we all just forget things, and that's part of it, and that's okay.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Christy, this has been a blast.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm loving loving your ideas about marketing and and book launches.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a couple final questions here as we start to wrap this up.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: The first thing is uh any advice that you would give people who are uh considering writing a book that is about a difficult or a challenging topic, any kind of words of wisdom or any inspiration or encouragement that you would really like them to focus on?
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um so as far as if you're ready to write it yet, I would say yeah, just like what we kind of already discussed.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, see if what happens when you start writing about it, because sometimes you don't really know until you start writing about it or talking about it, then you'll be like, oh, like that's still bothering me, or oh, like it actually feels pretty good now.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can do totally do this.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then once you have written it out, you know, revisit it a little bit later, at least a few days later, and see like, is this how's the tone on this?
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it doesn't have to be perfect, but if it's sounding angry, I don't think that's a good thing at all.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I totally agree.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's totally yeah, that's gonna come through to your audience and they're probably gonna be turned off by it.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: And if they're not, it's like I don't know, just consider who you want your audience to be.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what what what mind space do you want them to be in, too?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's very true.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's very true.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: I hadn't thought about that.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um then let me follow this up with another question, which is any advice that that you would give people for hate for people who hate book marketing, they don't they just want to write the book, they don't want to have to promote it or mess with all the stuff.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: They they feel like those things are a distraction and or an irritation.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: Any thoughts that you would give those people who maybe feel that way about their book marketing?
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: So just think of it from the perspective of when you wanted to help somebody with their book.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, whether it was because you were a big fan of theirs, just a friend, or you just wanted to support them because you thought it was important work.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um just think about how you felt and what how they how you would want them to follow up with you and don't see it as a nuisance.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you don't want to be sending them messages every single day, but like a couple of reminders is really good.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and just just remember the message.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that goes too with like, um, even if you are having a hard time writing something down, like the last question you asked, like just remember the mission and the audience.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, always keep that top of mind.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who's my audience?
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, what is my mission?
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I just remember how much you're gonna be helping the people, and it's not about you at all.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: And as soon as you, you know, recognize like this isn't about me, this is about the message, this is about helping people, like that's gonna shift a lot of things inside for you and how you um, you know, put yourself out there and market the book, but also don't go the opposite way and you know, just go over the top because I did do that a little bit too.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: I did um, you know, post some posts on maybe Facebook or something saying um I feel like I was talking about it too much, and it made me like really uncomfortable.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like I took a step back, I'm like, oh wow, that was like I I I really just had to take a few steps away for like days and just be like, okay, I'm not doing anything with this book marketing thing because it just felt so uncomfortable to me and so um foreign, really.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, just remember what the mission is, um, who the audience is and who you're gonna be helping, and just um, you know, do things for other people.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like I know you talk a lot about um, you know, on the Daily Rider, like just providing value for others.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: And something I do for others is um so I subscribe to this um service called Help a Reporter.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: So these yeah, yeah.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: Have you heard of that?
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: I have, I've used it before.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's really good.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: And like, so whenever when I do read through the whole list, if I think if I see an um a topic and I think of like one of my fellow authors, and I'm like, oh hey, like that would totally be perfect for them.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: I send it to them.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: And they really appreciate things like that.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: So like when you're doing things like that for them, not only does it um like help them out and create a lot of goodwill, um, but they'll also want to help you, of course.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it might remind them, hey, like, oh, I I need her a poster review or I really want to be on our launch team next time.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's good.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, like those little things, it's like so rare, like to like really go out of your way and um, or for somebody to really go out of their way and send those kind of leads to somebody.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it doesn't take that long, especially if you're reading through the list anyway.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, it could be like a huge lead for them and mean a lot to them.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, how many people actually do that?
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: So you're really like standing out exactly.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: And those little things make a huge difference.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh well, Chrissy, this has been a blast.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: I have taken a lot of notes here, and uh, I think most of them are legible to some degree.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: I hope that they are.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: So my writing, there's a reason I almost flunked handwriting in grade school.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, you can always you can always reach back out to me, and I'd be happy to share this and more.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: I have a lot of other tips that we didn't even start to cover.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is the best way for listeners to get in touch with you and to check out your book?
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so um my website is christypiper.com.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's c h r-i-s-t-y, p-i-p-er dot com.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it has information about me, um, a link to the book.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, my book is on Amazon and probably every e-reader platform there is, and coming soon to more bookstores.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's also available in paperback.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: Nice, nice.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: I love the fact that you have it.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it's in hardback and paperback, correct?
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's not in hardback yet.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, okay.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's coming next, though, and an audiobook next.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: I love all those formats.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's genius.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Chrissy, thanks again.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: This has been an absolute blast and a pleasure to reconnect with your book launch.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm excited to see what you're gonna be working on next as well.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: All right, yeah, it was awesome chatting with you, Kent.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you for the chance to speak to your daily writer audience.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: My pleasure.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I hope you enjoyed that conversation.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: I learned a ton from Christy.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I've got to confess that in the vast majority of the writing that I do for myself, but also for clients, we're typically writing about things that are not necessarily sensitive topics.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: I do a lot of business writing and some memoir type of things, but there's not a lot of times, honestly, where in my own content or clients' contents that we're diving into highly sensitive or personal topics.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: Now, there are exceptions occasionally, but for the most part, I'm writing about things like productivity and you know strategies for success and mindset and creativity and those kinds of things.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it was really interesting and really insightful to get to hear her perspective about this.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I learned a lot about how I should approach those kinds of topics in the future.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I would say my main takeaway from this episode is that we've got to put ourselves out there, even when our topic is personal or challenging.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: The reality is that even if you think you have something to share that might be a little controversial or it's sensitive or it's it's personal on some level, people need to hear your wisdom.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: They need to hear your encouragement because whatever it is that you're going through, there's somebody out there, I guarantee, who is experiencing the exact same thing or something very, very similar.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: So put on your brave pants, write about those things that sometimes are difficult, and take Christy's advice in what she has shared in this episode.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thanks so much to Christy for being a guest on this episode, and I also want to encourage you to grab her free download on how to write about difficult topics, as well as her free 15-minute consultation if you'd like some further guidance on this topic of writing about difficult subjects.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: And again, there's links to both of those in the show notes.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much, and I'll see you in the next episode.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for listening to today's episode.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: I want to take a moment to let you know about our daily writer membership community.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, one of the very best ways to develop better habits and impact more people's lives with your writing is to spend time around other successful writers.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're tired of feeling isolated and chasting success on your own, then I know you're gonna love the Daily Writer community.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: For years, I searched for the kind of writing community that I would want to join, but I can never find what I wanted, so I created my own.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the features include weekly writing sprints, monthly community calls, book discussions, calls with guest experts, and much more.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: For more info, you can visit dailywriterlife.comslash community.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, and I'll see you tomorrow.