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The fate Alan Jones fears most · The Front

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: It's Wednesday, January fourteen, twenty twenty six. A split is
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: emerging in the federal opposition to the Albanese government's post
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Bondai massacre law reforms, with liberals to support measures to
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: crack down on hate speech and gun ownership, and some
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: nationals likely to oppose. Complicating things further Susan Lee's leadership
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: rival Andrew Hasty, is saying he can't vote for a
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: law that limits religious freedom. Kevin Rudd has suddenly quit
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: as Australia's ambassador to the United States, months after surviving
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: calls for his sacking and a public dressing down from
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump. Rudd is quitting to work for a think tank.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Foreign editor Greg Sheridan reckons Rudd was the only senior
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: government figure to be hardheaded about China, and his departure
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: leaves the quote marshmallow brains in charge. Those stories are
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: live now at the Australian dot com dot. The trial
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: of former broadcaster Alan Jones is already shaping up to
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: be the trial of the year, with Jones bleeding not
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: guilty to scores of charges of indecent assault. Today The
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Australian's Media Diary editor Steve Jackson joins me to look
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: at how the prosecution is framing its case, the stakes
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: for Jones, and how old fashioned media like radio are
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: handling this post shock jock era.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: Alan Jones, once one of the most influential media identities
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: in Australia, is now under arrest over allegations he and
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: decently hassaulted multiple young men.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Police executed a warrant at the eighty three year old's
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: luxury Sydney apartment at Circular Key this morning. Steve Jackson
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: edits The Australian's Media Diary. Steve, you've written a little
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: bit in twenty twenty five about Alan Jones, probably the
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: most famous radio broadcaster Australia ever produced. For most of
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: his career, someone who politicians feared, who audiences loved and loathed,
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: probably in equal measure. He was always controversial and in
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: the past couple of years, Alan Jones' worst nightmare has
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: come true. He has been charged with quite serious sexual offending.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Now in twenty twenty six he's going to face trial.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Where are those charges at and what are you expecting
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: in the next month?
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: You're right, Claire.
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: Alan Jones is someone who's been at the center of
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: the media landscape for decades in Australia, back to nineteen
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: eighty five when he first got his premier hitout on
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: two UI in Sydney. This year, he's going to be
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: at the center of the media spotlight for all the
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: wrong reasons. So he's currently facing twenty seven charges, twenty
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: five of those for indecent assault relating to nine victims
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: over the past two decades, and two more of unwanted
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: sexual touching.
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: What we're going to hear.
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: From May is the preliminary legal arguments around that case,
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: all of the allegations he currently denies, and then set down.
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: From August three, it's going to begin in proper what's
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: happened currently. He's had some of the more serious charges
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: dropped against him. They're the ones of aggravated sexual assault.
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: So it's going to be heard in the local court
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: for a magistrate instead of going up to the district court.
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: But it's still really serious. There's one hundred and thirty
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: nine potential witnesses going to be called and at this
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: stage the expectation is this is something that's going to
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: drag on in the courts for four months.
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: This is going to be the media story of the year.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: We've both covered matters in the local court that have
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: massive significance. Often, even though the local court is where
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: traffic offenses get heard, it's also where serious criminals alleged
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: appear for their first appearances. So if someone's arrested on
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: a terror charge, they might have their first appearance before
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: a magistrate at the local court if it's on a weekend.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: Local courts, though, generally just handle those small matters. If
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: a trial requires a jury, or if it's about a
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: serious offense like rape or murder, it is heard in
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: either the district or the Supreme Court. Big court rooms,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: big jury boxes, lots of seats for the media. How
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: is the local court in you south, Well, he's going
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: to handle.
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: This, well, you're right, And in terms of punishment, obviously
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: it's at a lower level. What we're going to see
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: is people are going to be vying for spots in
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: that press gallery every day.
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: Not everyone's going to be able to get in.
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: We might potentially see it relaid, as we know from
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: COVID via video link, so that everyone who has an
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: interest in it does have an opportunity because we have
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: an open judicial system here in open justice system has
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: an opportunity to follow the case because there is going
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: to be massive interest in it. Now it is being
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: heard in the local court. Because prosecutors are being very
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: careful with this case. They know how important it is.
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: They know this scrutiny that's going to be involved and
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: important not just for the prosecutors and the alleged victims,
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: but also for Alan Jones under our legal framework, for
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: him to have a fair go at contesting these and
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: proving that he's not guilty, because he's insisting he's not.
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: So they've been ultra careful. So the more contentious charges,
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: the ones that are more difficult to prove, the aggravated
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: sexual assault, they have been dropped and they're going with
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: what they think is the safest route to trying to
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: get a conviction against him. That doesn't mean that the
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: complainants who accused mister Jones of aggravated sexual assault have
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: dropped out.
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: That is not the case.
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: My sources say they are most definitely going to be
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: proceeding with giving evidence against mister Jones, but just those
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: more difficult higher end of the spectrum charges have been
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: dropped so that they have the safest, strongest case possible
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: against mister Jones. And that said, mister Jones's adamant that
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: he's going to fight all those and he believes that
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: he is not guilty and can win.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: In a few of our episodes of The Front in
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty five about this story, I've gone back and
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: listened to Alan Jones's old broadcasts and news stories about
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: things that he'd said, various controversies he had been involved
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: in over the years. He was such a huge figure
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: in Australian life and he was able to get politicians
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: into the studio and flay them, Julia Gillard, Malcolm Turnbull.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: He was ruthless and it made for great radio. That's
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: why audiences loved him.
• 6:01
  Speaker 5: The woman's off her tree and quite frankly they should
• 6:05
  Speaker 5: shove her and Bob Brown and a. I just wonder
• 6:07
  Speaker 5: whether Scott Morrison's going to be fully brief to shove
• 6:09
  Speaker 5: a sock down the throat.
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: I mean, she is a joke, this woman.
• 6:13
  Speaker 5: You're dope, clover.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: Or you died in the word dope.
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 6:17
  Speaker 6: I hope Scott Morrison gets tough here with a few
• 6:20
  Speaker 6: backhands hasn't got a clue this woman.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: But the disappearance of Alan Jones from the airwaves, which
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: has been prompted by these charges, I'm sure he would
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: have kept going forever if he could on one platform
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: or another. How has that left the radio landscape was actually.
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: Very interesting and a lot of it comes back to
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: the rise of the Internet. So we could see even
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: last month with the BONDEI terror attacks, the number of
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: people who are turning to radio as their priman U source,
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: which would have once been where you went to you know,
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: there's a terror attack. It's massive, it's happening in Sydney.
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: Got to tune into two GB, got to switch on
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: Channel nine. Those audiences no longer gravitate towards radio or television.
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: We know, and I've reviewed the minute by minutes of
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: the television coverage and the radio coverage and newspaper coverage,
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: and we know that people are now going to The
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: Australian or news dot com, dot you or any other
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: number of news sites for their rolling news coverage. There
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: were two hundred thousand people tuning into Channel nine on
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: that night of those attacks, and then we know news dot.
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: Com, dot you had an audience that surpassed that.
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: So what's happened in the past few years since mister
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: Jones was at the peak of these powers is we've
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: seen an eroding of the importance of live radio because
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: that is now being covered by digital news sites.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: Part of that, too, is that everybody wants to see
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: the video, right and now that we all have a
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: fantastic camera in our hands, we can shoot video of
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: something that's happening in front of us and share it
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: and you need to be able to see that to
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: understand this story for example.
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well exactly.
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: And we see more and more that mastheads provide an
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: all encompassing user experience. So videos online, there are people talking,
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: doing television and style reports online, there's audio of people
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: making phone calls, there's graphics. So what we're seeing is
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: all this is now being provided in one sort of
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: news source and it's easier, and people can scroll through
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: their phones and they can see in their social media
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: feeds the bits of coverage coming from different outlets.
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: So that power of.
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: Live radio, it's really really dissipated since mister Jones was there,
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: and it just doesn't exist anymore. Yes, at major news events,
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: they still have peak audiences, but we've seen a massive
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: eroding of that. So if mister Jones was still on
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: air to this date, the powers that he once had
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: would already be diminished. There are still politicians that think
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: it's important to go there, but we also know that,
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: like advertised, as we know, they have a very specific demographic,
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: and it's usually an older demographic. It's rusted on demographic
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: that has always voted liberal, always voted labor. They're swinging
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: voters and the ones people are trying to get they're
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: not gravitating towards talk back anymore. That is an outdated
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: medium for younger audiences.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: AM radio, where Jones and Pivolet John Lawes once held
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: sway Ray Hadley, seems to now be accelerating to the
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: pace of change over that we've often seen in FM radio.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: So they have a wacky duo of you know, Jacko
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: and Claire hosting the morning show. Then they dumped them
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: after six months if it's not working. That pace now
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: seems to be happening in AM where you don't have
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: characters who you can expect are going to be on
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: air for the next thirty years.
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: These radio networks, they're not making the big Bucks that
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: they once were. We see nine Radio, the biggest national
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: talkback network in the country. It's got outlets in Sydney, Melbourne,
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: Brisbane and Perth. Adelaide's overlooked, but like always Adelaides overlooked,
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: but we're seeing that that's a company now that makes
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: an inventor of eight million dollars and so the money's
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: just not there.
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: They're not investing in big stars. They've got a couple.
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: They've got the guys in Melbourne at Th for our
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: w Breakfast and Morning, and in two GB you know,
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: Ben Fordham still on Big Bucks for Hadley's replacement, Mark
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: Levy not on the same crazy sorts of money. And
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: in Bridge and Perth it's more like we need someone
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: who's that guy standing in the corner.
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: Yep, you're good enough, You're on.
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: Because they don't have the money to invest in big
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: name stars, and internally, that's what they're saying, is that
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: it's no longer about big name stars on Big Bucks.
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: They're just trying to reduce their costs and unfortunately those
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: names they're now trying to gravitate towards television. But they
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: don't even have the same amount of money because we're
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: seeing in TV news anchors, they're also copying pay cuts.
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: So it's just not that big force of personality anymore.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: That accelerates the decline, doesn't it If you don't have
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: big personalities and it is just the guy in the corner,
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: and then next week it's me and then I get
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: dumb to next week it's you that's going to compound
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: those issues, isn't it decline? Is this the end of right?
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: Yea, well, and it's really self feeling, right because, as
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: you say, Claire, particularly with someone like Alan Jones or Ray,
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: love them, hate them, but care right. So I think
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: for everyone who used to tune in to listen to
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: mister Jones, for example, for every person that you and
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: him because they loved him, probably two people were tuning
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: in because they hated him and wanted to rail and
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: get Oh you know, I really disagree, and but people
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: cared what they're saying. Now, do you want to tune
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: in someone don't even know who they are? Don't really
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: why do I care about their opinion? So it's that
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: old expression in the media, you're only as good as
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: your last story that is gone.
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: You're only as good as your next story.
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: So unless you keep delivering and that you have a
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: great show every day, those audiences, they'll just wander off
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: somewhere else to someone who does have a great exclusive
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: every day. So that's the pressure on them to retain
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: the audiences. And it is getting tougher, right because newspapers
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: used to come out once a day and it was great.
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: You read the newspaper in the morning and I know
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: everything for the day because I know I've read everything
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: in there. You can't keep on top of it anymore
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: because every minute there's a new story online and it's immediate.
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: So that one power that they had being the fastest
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: medium to get live and to get to audiences. Now
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: everyone's in that same market.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Coming up.
• 11:58
  Speaker 5: The bank robber, the Hell Helicopter, and the future of radio.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: I remember when there was a helicopter landed in a
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: prison yard and took a prisoner away. It was the
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: famous Australian bank robber, I think, and his girlfriend hijacked
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: to helicopter, flew into the prison yard and took him away.
• 12:27
  Speaker 5: This is a very daring, almost Hollywood style escape.
• 12:31
  Speaker 6: Police say thirty year old Lucy Dudco charted a helicopter
• 12:35
  Speaker 6: for what was supposed to be a joy flight over
• 12:37
  Speaker 6: the Homebush Olympic site. She then asked for a closer
• 12:40
  Speaker 6: look at nearby silver Water Jail.
• 12:42
  Speaker 7: Silver Water Jail in nineteen ninety nine, when he's then
• 12:45
  Speaker 7: a girlfriend hijacked to helicopter pilot at gunpoint and forced
• 12:49
  Speaker 7: him to land inside the prison grounds before they made
• 12:51
  Speaker 7: it an escape. Now they spent the next forty five
• 12:53
  Speaker 7: days on the run before police caught up with him.
• 12:56
  Speaker 7: He then spent another fifteen years in jail.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: As that store, he was being covered live on the
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: John Laws program in the most thrilling and dramatic way possible.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: You know, John Laws had people calling in from all
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: over Sydney describing what they were seeing. That form of energy. Now,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: where is that?
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: Well, that's exactly what we saw last month. If that
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: happened now, as you say, everyone have their iPhones out,
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: there'd be vision of it. Someone would have put a
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: drone up next to the helicopter. Instead of people calling
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: in and describing stuff, we would have seen it. Because
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: everyone is fast to react and it's not even about
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: getting exclusive vision. Now, because you saw the terror attack
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: last month, some French guy who filmed it from across
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: the Street. He's just put it on social media. That
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: vision would have been something that television networks would have
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: once upon a time paid one hundred thousand dollars for
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: because ah, this exclusive vision. Now it's just online. The
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: world owns it within minutes, and that's just that's the
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: mindset of people. And they've all got their phones and
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: they're not No one's calling up trying to sell it.
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: It's live and hey, I've got this news and it's
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: happening now.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: So what's the value add for legacy media outlets? Then
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: for sites like The Australian and for say Channel seven News,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: how do they make sure that people don't just consume
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: that on X.
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: Well, I think we're moving into an unprecedented era of
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: artificial intelligence where it is going to be impossible. It's
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: already difficult. In the next year, next two years, it
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: is going to be impossible to tell what is real
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: and what is fake online. So the jobs of journalists
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: and trusted news outlets is going to be more important
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: than ever. What we're going to see hopefully, and I
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: assume it's the same thing that happened with X. Initially
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: everyone was like journalism's dead, it's going to be citizen
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: journalists on x telling everyone what's happening live, and then
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: ultimately everyone we don't know which tweets are real, who's
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: disseminating this, who's telling us what's right, And it's going
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: to become even more important in the era of artificial intelligence.
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: There's going to be so many clips online, there's going
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: to be so much disinformation. The really critical thing is
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: going to be professional journalists sifting through it, going this
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: is real, this is not real.
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: You can believe this. And we saw that even.
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: With the terror attacks last month, we saw everyone saying,
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: is this real? Can we trust this? There is speculation
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: there's a third gunman in Dover Heights or Double Bay.
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: Trust me.
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: I was walking through Double Bay at the time and
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: everyone was screaming down from balconies, get inside, there's a
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: gunman in Doube And then you're like, well, but yes,
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: I've read the Australian, I've read the Daily Telegraph. The
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: two government have been apprehended, and that's a source that
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: you can trust. AI will just repeat stories that AI
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: has done and use itself as the source and become
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: self perpetuating. So that's where it's going to be really
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: important for journalists to really tell people what you can
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: trust and what you can't. With Alan Jones's case, there
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: are going to be people talking about rumors that they've
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: heard and once again become incumbent on the media to
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: handle that responsibly. What we're also going to see with
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: the Alan Jones case is that it's in the local
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: court and people are going to be saying, all right,
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: so what is it going to be a slap on
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: the wrist and four months and you know, in the
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: local court, what's the worst that can happen to him?
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: The worst that can happen to Alan Jones is the shame.
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: So you know, whether or not at the end of
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: this he gets found guilty or not. If he is
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: found guilty, whether he gets jail time a fine, that's
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: really irrelevant. We're talking about someone who is in the
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: Australian Media Hall of Fame. If he is found guilty,
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: he's off that he's in the Australian Sports Hall of Fame.
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: You know, is really successful. Wallaby's coach. Everything he has
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: will be taken away from him and for people in
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: these important positions, and the way he is setting himself
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: up in life is that his personality, his ego, his
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: reputation is the center of his universe. So the worst
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: thing that can happen Talan Jones isn't jail time.
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: It is the shame. Steve Jackson, thank you very much,
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: Thank you for having me on Claire.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: Steve Jackson is The Australian's Media Diary editor. You can
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: read all Jacko's journalism anytime at the Australian dot com
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: dot a u