Latest / Deeply Well with Devi Brown / Be Present With It All with Manoj Dias

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Be Present With It All with Manoj Dias · Deeply Well with Devi Brown

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Speaker 1: Mm from grandmothers who whispered in their baby girl in
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Speaker 1: two fathers on dimly lit street corners, instructing young soldiers
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Speaker 1: to always keep their eyes open. You be queen, you
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Speaker 1: were fired. You will pass through centuries on the hands
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Speaker 1: of your daughters. They called you wisdom. Proverbs on the
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Speaker 1: backs of diamond eyed school children who growing into hymnals
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Speaker 1: recited by amethyst holding urban philosophers who recited neighborhood commandments
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Speaker 1: out of the windows of restored Alchemedo chariots to keep
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Speaker 1: the warmth of their blood. Be wise, be smart, being black,
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Speaker 1: Opal Brown courts, bloodstone and prayer. Be every form of jim.
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Speaker 1: See king, told, scribe, scribe, told son, son, told wife,
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Speaker 1: wife told her daughter, and daughter told the ass is.
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Speaker 1: And the ancestors told me that you would come to
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Speaker 1: give wisdom thousands. They said you would come dropping dropping
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Speaker 1: the jim that got it. Hey, Welcome to another episode
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Speaker 1: of The Dropping Gym's podcast. I am your host, Debbie Brown,
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Speaker 1: and this is a show where we explore higher consciousness
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Speaker 1: for real life. So wherever you happen to find yourself
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Speaker 1: on the path, whether you're just beginning your beautiful spiritual journey,
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Speaker 1: whether you are deepening, whether you are an integration and
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Speaker 1: embodiment or whether you are in your beautiful mastery. Um.
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Speaker 1: This show has something for everyone and is filled with
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Speaker 1: opportunities to observe and explore ourselves with tenderness, with joy,
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Speaker 1: uh and with urgency. So today's show, we are really
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Speaker 1: going to be leaning into some of the house if
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Speaker 1: you happen to be catching the show. In May, it's
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Speaker 1: Mental Health Month and a lot of expansive conversations are
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Speaker 1: happening around mental health that has become gratefully a big
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Speaker 1: center piece of the ways in which we are looking
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Speaker 1: at ourselves and looking at society right now. And when
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Speaker 1: we think of mental health, I think sometimes it's considered
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Speaker 1: that it exists in a completely different category than our
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Speaker 1: spiritual well being. But the way that I see things
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Speaker 1: is always through a holistic lens and holistic approach, and
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Speaker 1: it's really about the integration of all of the things
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Speaker 1: for our highest good. So what are all the pillars
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Speaker 1: that we we can lean into as we remember our wholeness?
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Speaker 1: So when I think of mental health, I think of
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Speaker 1: it as encompassing our spiritual journey, our journey potentially in
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Speaker 1: therapy or with psychologists um our experiences with how we're
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Speaker 1: treating ourselves and our bodies and our ability to kind
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Speaker 1: of stand in our self awareness and to be with ourselves,
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Speaker 1: and some then I speak to on this show, but
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Speaker 1: I definitely am in conversation so often with many different friends,
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Speaker 1: especially in this wellness space, is around how there is
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Speaker 1: such a false narrative and belief in what wellness is
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Speaker 1: supposed to look like, that it is this you know,
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Speaker 1: destination you've arrived at and all of a sudden everything
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Speaker 1: is all good. But I think most teachers UM that
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Speaker 1: stand in their authenticity will be the first to tell you,
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Speaker 1: including myself, that it's less about being in positivity and
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Speaker 1: less about this perfection as it is about an acceptance
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Speaker 1: and an allowance of the natural ebbs and flows of
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Speaker 1: life and the natural weaving of our spiritual curriculum and
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Speaker 1: the lens of perception that we choose in each moment
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Speaker 1: to view it with, and how we allow it to
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Speaker 1: relate to our sense of self and our sense of worth.
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Speaker 1: So on today's show, I really want to kind of
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Speaker 1: sit inside the pieces about our self awareness and using
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Speaker 1: it as a tool of resistance, using our wholeness as
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Speaker 1: a tool of resistance in the world, and really using
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Speaker 1: our ability to check in with our bodies and our
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Speaker 1: ability to question our feelings and kind of stay steeped
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Speaker 1: and a joyful curiosity of self study as the way
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Speaker 1: in which we can begin to experience ourselves um for
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Speaker 1: long term lasting effects of peace, ease, and grace in
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Speaker 1: this uh constantly winding journey that we call life on
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Speaker 1: earth as human beings, as our beautiful spiritual souls exist
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Speaker 1: in this human technology, our bodies, and how to make
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Speaker 1: this experience of being alive on earth for our highest
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Speaker 1: good and for maximum connection to the divine and to
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Speaker 1: our ascension. So today's show is going to be kind
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Speaker 1: of stepping into all those things that I have a
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Speaker 1: really special guest, And what I really love about this guest,
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Speaker 1: who I'm gonna kind of deepen in my explanation of
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Speaker 1: in just a moment. What I really love about this
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Speaker 1: guest is not only is he deeply um within his
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Speaker 1: spiritual process and practice. He's a masterful teacher of his
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Speaker 1: work and of Buddhist teachings, but he's also a man
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Speaker 1: who is committed to feeling all the fields, which is
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Speaker 1: so radical in and of itself, especially um in society
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Speaker 1: up until this point, Uh, and especially in this country,
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Speaker 1: and especially when it comes to men of color. So
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Speaker 1: today's episode, I'll be introducing UH wonder full person who
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Speaker 1: I consider a great friend, a beautiful leader in this space,
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Speaker 1: and someone who deeply, deeply works this process and shows
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Speaker 1: up with the work. My special guest today's name is
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Speaker 1: Minoj Dias. So since first being introduced to the magic
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Speaker 1: meditation decades ago and embarking on his own journey, MINOJH
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Speaker 1: Dias has helped thousands of people to embrace stillness of
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Speaker 1: mind and body, enabling them to live fearlessly on the
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Speaker 1: path to a happier and more meaningful life. His teaching
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Speaker 1: and practice is informed by Buddhist philosophy, psychology, and social
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Speaker 1: justice principles, with an emphasis on promoting diversity and inclusion
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Speaker 1: in the wellness space. After training under renowned teachers, Minoja
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Speaker 1: has based himself between the US and Australia for the
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Speaker 1: past five years, teaching meditation and mindfulness across both continents.
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Speaker 1: In two thousand and fifteen, he founded a Space, Australia's
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Speaker 1: first drop in meditation studio, and he became the co
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Speaker 1: founder of Open California based wellness platform. He is also
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Speaker 1: the co founder of the Australian New Zealand arm of
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Speaker 1: every Man, a men's emotional intelligent movement. So welcome to
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Speaker 1: the show, my friend, minoj Dis Hello, Hello, my beautiful friend.
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Speaker 1: Nice to see your face, So good to see you.
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Speaker 1: It is so good to spend time with you. A
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Speaker 1: little background on me and Minose, we kind of met
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Speaker 1: through the Choper universe, UM, through a very wonderful mutual
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Speaker 1: friend of ours, and then we found ourselves one evening
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Speaker 1: in Venice having UM, a delicious chicken meal, also people
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Speaker 1: watching UM, but having really beautiful, beautiful conversation. And I know,
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Speaker 1: I felt like when we were sitting there breaking bread
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Speaker 1: and talking about the world and talking about our souls
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Speaker 1: and talking about God, I just felt, um, I just
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Speaker 1: felt deeply connected. And I've I've loved your work from Afar,
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Speaker 1: I love following you on social I've had the chance
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Speaker 1: to peek into some of your gorgeous meditations, and so
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Speaker 1: I'm really excited to have you on the show today. Uh, Debbie,
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Speaker 1: thank you. And I felt exactly the same way. And
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Speaker 1: I think I left because I just moved from from
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Speaker 1: Australia to l A and then you were like you
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Speaker 1: and Daline or actually like the first one of the
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Speaker 1: first people that I had had to know with in
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Speaker 1: the middle of COVID. Right. It was a bit weird
8:23
Speaker 1: at that time because no one was really eating out
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Speaker 1: and we just kind of had that little little meal
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Speaker 1: and it was a really beautiful moment. So yes, I
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Speaker 1: definitely feel the same way. Yeah, So how's your heart
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Speaker 1: right now? How are you feeling as we're coming on
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Speaker 1: the other side of what has been um for those
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Speaker 1: living in this moment in time, probably the most challenging
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Speaker 1: moment in human history for us, How are you feeling
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Speaker 1: coming into your new normal in this new country. Um. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: in the midst of this, I think it's it's holding
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Speaker 1: a lot, really, you know, like it's it's it's holding grief,
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Speaker 1: it's holding excitement, it's holding space. Um. But I you know,
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Speaker 1: it's hard to get so excited where so many things
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Speaker 1: are still happening all around the world, and you know,
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Speaker 1: we're now seeing things happening in India and Colombia, We're
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Speaker 1: seeing you know, ongoing police brutality, and it just sometimes
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Speaker 1: feels like it's so much, you know, it's so much.
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Speaker 1: And then I just realized, like this is just life,
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Speaker 1: Like life has always being inherently unstable, and it's always
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Speaker 1: being full of ups and downs and pain and sorrow.
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Speaker 1: And we have this saying in Buddhism that life contains
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Speaker 1: ten thou joys and ten thous sorrows, and the very
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Speaker 1: much feels like that, you know, like I am also
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Speaker 1: holding space for new things and for love and for
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Speaker 1: um compassion and for friendship, which is all really beautiful
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Speaker 1: and and I also know on the other side of
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Speaker 1: that is the opposite. I really love that you anchor
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Speaker 1: the conversation and that to start, because I would really
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Speaker 1: love to speak to that I've been observing even within myself. UM,
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Speaker 1: and this is I mean, this is actually something I've
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Speaker 1: observed my whole life about me that I think I
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Speaker 1: used to think was just something I experience, but now
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Speaker 1: I'm knowing and learning that it's actually by design for
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Speaker 1: the human experience. UM. But that I exist in a
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Speaker 1: space where seven things are beautiful and terrifying all at once,
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Speaker 1: you know, and sitting even with that grief and I've
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Speaker 1: shared on the show before, UM, I think I get
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Speaker 1: paid a picture for how grief exists inside of me
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Speaker 1: because I'm I'm equal parts kind of exuberance, radiance, peace,
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Speaker 1: and grief all the time. And a lot of that
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Speaker 1: is from losing a lot of people to violence in
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Speaker 1: my life, and um, you know, all the things, all
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Speaker 1: the things, but it's kind of I experienced it like this,
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Speaker 1: like with my son right he um, he turns three
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Speaker 1: actually tomorrow he I grieve him every day because he
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Speaker 1: becomes a new person. But every single day I'm also
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Speaker 1: like enthralled and inspired with all the facets of police
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Speaker 1: becoming And both happened at the exact same time for me. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: And you set it right there in that last paragraph
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Speaker 1: where we're grieving and we're grieving moments that we didn't
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Speaker 1: know grief, right Like it was a year in which
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Speaker 1: we were grieving possibilities. Like we're grieving relationships, we're grieving
11:27
Speaker 1: um friendships, we're grieving the ability to go to the gym,
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Speaker 1: We're grieving what what might have been. And this has
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Speaker 1: obviously been more profound for for many of us, but
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Speaker 1: I think we're still living with the remnants of that
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Speaker 1: in our bodies. And just because we've got the vaccine
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Speaker 1: and life seems to go back to normal. It doesn't
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Speaker 1: mean the trauma of the grief has left us, So
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Speaker 1: now is the work. It's like, you know, my daughter's
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Speaker 1: in Australia and I spoke to her recently and she's
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Speaker 1: having a lot of social anxiety. It's like, I don't
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Speaker 1: know how to return to the world, especially if you're
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Speaker 1: locked up indoors for twenty three hours a day for
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Speaker 1: seven months, Like, how do you then go from that
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Speaker 1: to just life is normal and you know, everything is
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Speaker 1: back to normal where it's not for many of us.
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Speaker 1: And I think we'll start to understand that over the
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Speaker 1: next few months and years and maybe even lifetimes what
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Speaker 1: we have just experienced. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think for me,
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Speaker 1: my intention is really to keep my life closer to
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Speaker 1: what my pandemic life look like than actually trying to
12:35
Speaker 1: get back to what it was before, right, right, And
12:38
Speaker 1: it's it's it's so profound to we even say that
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Speaker 1: my view on the world, which is what you're saying,
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Speaker 1: has changed. And I kind of like this and that's
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Speaker 1: okay too, right, because it gave us, like I said,
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Speaker 1: ten thousand joys, ten thousand sorrows and lessons and also
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Speaker 1: trauma and I think part of our work as meditators
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Speaker 1: is the whole space for all of these things, not
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Speaker 1: just positivity and not just happiness, but also everything else
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Speaker 1: that surrounds that, because I believe that's how wisdom grows,
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Speaker 1: and as wisdom grows, compassion grows. And I want to
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Speaker 1: move through my life through with those two things, like
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Speaker 1: wisdom and compassion, and I know if I can, then
13:19
Speaker 1: I can face anything that comes my way. Mmmm, that's
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Speaker 1: so beautiful. Can you share with me some of your
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Speaker 1: Buddhist lineage? How did you find that particular path and
13:32
Speaker 1: why did it speak to you? Well, first of all,
13:35
Speaker 1: I don't think I necessarily picked it, but I was
13:39
Speaker 1: born into it. My family was. I was raised in
13:43
Speaker 1: Sho Lunka, and from a very young age, monks were
13:46
Speaker 1: in our house. We were doing ceremonies, and Shi Lunka
13:50
Speaker 1: itself is a very deeply Buddhist and spiritual place, and
13:54
Speaker 1: I wasn't necessarily drawn to their teachings from a young age,
13:57
Speaker 1: but there was just a fascination around their aura and
14:01
Speaker 1: their energy. They were always laughing, they were always calm.
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Speaker 1: They had funny faces with bald heads, and my dad
14:09
Speaker 1: told me the story, you know, when I was in
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Speaker 1: my late teens that he from a very young age,
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Speaker 1: I was drawn to them and drawn to the practice
14:18
Speaker 1: because I would see them walking on the sides of
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Speaker 1: the roads, and whenever I would see them, I would
14:22
Speaker 1: get up from the car, like when I was seated,
14:25
Speaker 1: I put my hands together like in a prayer position,
14:27
Speaker 1: and I would bow. And he used to get really scared,
14:30
Speaker 1: because usually what that means if a child does that
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Speaker 1: from a young age, is that he wants to become
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Speaker 1: a monk. He wants to take robes, and he wants
14:38
Speaker 1: to go down that path. So he used to joke
14:41
Speaker 1: around saying he used to get my mom to hide him.
14:43
Speaker 1: He's like, make sure he doesn't see, like you know,
14:44
Speaker 1: these months and it's ironic, you know, Like thirty odd
14:48
Speaker 1: years later, here I am being in a meditation teacher.
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Speaker 1: But there was always a fascination with what existed beyond me.
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Speaker 1: And I didn't know if that was God, I didn't
15:00
Speaker 1: know if that was consciousness. I didn't know what it
15:03
Speaker 1: really meant. But I knew that there was something bigger
15:06
Speaker 1: than me that existed in the world. At least I
15:09
Speaker 1: believe that, even if I didn't know it. But you know,
15:12
Speaker 1: when we migrated to Australia, I really lost a lot
15:15
Speaker 1: of that because the culture was very different. Um. And then,
15:19
Speaker 1: you know, I had a pretty normal upbringing. I mean
15:22
Speaker 1: I would say normal upbringing, but I had an upbringing.
15:25
Speaker 1: And I started working and one day I was in
15:28
Speaker 1: marketing and advertising. One day I had a pretty serious
15:32
Speaker 1: and big panic attack. And that was like the catalyst
15:38
Speaker 1: for everything in my life. I went to different doctors
15:41
Speaker 1: and psychologists and healers and just tried to get well
15:46
Speaker 1: and tried to get better because at that point I
15:49
Speaker 1: developed an eating disorder. It was really anxious. I had depression. UM,
15:54
Speaker 1: I was misdiagnosed with a d h D and eventually
15:59
Speaker 1: ended up developed developing an addiction to prescription medication. And
16:03
Speaker 1: so I was in a really bad place. And every
16:06
Speaker 1: doctor I was seeing, a psychologist I was seeing, we're
16:09
Speaker 1: just giving me different opinions. You know. One it said
16:12
Speaker 1: it's just anxiety or it's just stress. One said it's
16:16
Speaker 1: a d h D. And another one it's like, no,
16:18
Speaker 1: it's depression, and take this medication and take this medication. Eventually,
16:22
Speaker 1: I was just like, intuitively, I had a feeling that
16:26
Speaker 1: I don't think it is like there's something else that
16:28
Speaker 1: was going on for me. And I'm sure all of
16:30
Speaker 1: that was part of my my suffering at the time,
16:33
Speaker 1: no doubt, But I just wasn't drawn to the medication.
16:36
Speaker 1: And I don't have anything against medication. I think it's
16:39
Speaker 1: really impotent and powerful and needed from time to time.
16:43
Speaker 1: But for me, I had a feeling that I just
16:45
Speaker 1: needed to just go somewhere. And I didn't go anywhere,
16:50
Speaker 1: but randomly I found myself one day in a yoga
16:53
Speaker 1: studio and this yoga teacher turned out to be a
16:57
Speaker 1: Buddhist meditation teacher, and and that very first class, he
17:03
Speaker 1: said that you are not your suffering, and you are
17:06
Speaker 1: you are not your thoughts. And that was a very
17:09
Speaker 1: profound moment for me, because, um, first of all, I
17:13
Speaker 1: started to notice my thoughts in that moment. I started
17:17
Speaker 1: to notice all the negative thoughts like you're you're useless,
17:21
Speaker 1: You're never going to get better again, Um, you're worthless,
17:25
Speaker 1: like your how are you going to look after your daughter?
17:27
Speaker 1: What are you going to have for lunch? And I
17:29
Speaker 1: always weird thoughts running through my mind. And then I
17:32
Speaker 1: noticed myself observing those thoughts. And then when he said
17:36
Speaker 1: that you're not you're suffering. I'm like, well, maybe I
17:38
Speaker 1: can observe my suffering the same way I can observe
17:41
Speaker 1: my thoughts. And you know that very first class, something
17:47
Speaker 1: began to click and I slept better than I ever
17:49
Speaker 1: had before. And I came back the next day, the
17:52
Speaker 1: next day, and the next day, and I ended up
17:54
Speaker 1: studying with him every day for five years. And I
17:58
Speaker 1: legitimately thought at one point, you know, was going to
18:01
Speaker 1: take rooms in and was going to be a monk,
18:03
Speaker 1: but decided against it. And I started teaching only because
18:07
Speaker 1: he asked me to teach one day, and the rest
18:12
Speaker 1: is kind of history. I guess, wow, wow, So there's
18:18
Speaker 1: a lot I want to dive into their um. First
18:22
Speaker 1: things first, because you took me on an epic journey.
18:24
Speaker 1: Just now, First things first, I think, you know, it's
18:31
Speaker 1: so interesting. So you were raised, you were raised Buddhist,
18:34
Speaker 1: and so that was your foundation. And I hope I'm
18:38
Speaker 1: going to be able to unravel this in the way
18:40
Speaker 1: that it's coming together in my mind. But I'm not
18:43
Speaker 1: someone that was ever raised with any religions or beliefs, right, um,
18:47
Speaker 1: not at all. I was aware of Christianity, I was
18:50
Speaker 1: aware of Catholicism. Um. I was born and raised in
18:54
Speaker 1: l A and so even though there wasn't like a
18:57
Speaker 1: back in the eighties, a robust meditation community, I was
19:00
Speaker 1: always seeing Buddhas everywhere, and I was always seeing different
19:03
Speaker 1: beliefs that play in different cultures. Um. So I was
19:06
Speaker 1: always profoundly, deeply intrigued by these cultural systems and by beliefs. UM.
19:15
Speaker 1: But my journey, I really found it because I was
19:17
Speaker 1: just in such deep longing for God um. And that's
19:21
Speaker 1: the resounding feeling I remember always feeling. It was this
19:24
Speaker 1: nine desire to know God more deeply um, and trying
19:29
Speaker 1: to find the pathways there. But you know, it's interesting
19:33
Speaker 1: because even though you Buddhism is such a gorgeous, such
19:38
Speaker 1: a gorgeous path, and you were raised with it, and
19:41
Speaker 1: you were raised with the knowledge of how to utilize it.
19:45
Speaker 1: Yet isn't it so interesting how even when we strive
19:48
Speaker 1: to raise our children in certain ways with these structures
19:50
Speaker 1: and beliefs kind of as humanity, we still find ourselves
19:54
Speaker 1: at the crossroad where we have to choose something for ourselves.
19:57
Speaker 1: And you ended up choosing the lineage that you actually
20:01
Speaker 1: was already so deep in your heart but it was
20:03
Speaker 1: still a very specific choice you made, and so even
20:07
Speaker 1: the system of belief that you were raised with, there
20:11
Speaker 1: was a moment where you received it more deeply, applied
20:16
Speaker 1: it potentially in new ways, and then cured yourself of
20:19
Speaker 1: your suffering. Um. So I would just love any thoughts
20:22
Speaker 1: or observations on that. Yeah, And so maybe I'll start
20:26
Speaker 1: at the end where I don't think I've cured myself
20:29
Speaker 1: from my suffering. I've learned how to relate to my
20:32
Speaker 1: suffering differently. And I think that's an important distinction, because
20:36
Speaker 1: we can think that meditation and spirituality can cure us
20:40
Speaker 1: of our ailments, and that's actually a way of bypassing
20:44
Speaker 1: the experience of itself. Right. You know, I still get
20:47
Speaker 1: anxious from time to time. I'm still neurotic from time
20:50
Speaker 1: to time. I get very angry often, you know, I'll
20:53
Speaker 1: binge ee, you know, I'll crave cigarettes. Like. All of
20:56
Speaker 1: that is is still very much in my experience, but
20:59
Speaker 1: now related to I've learned how to relate to my
21:03
Speaker 1: suffering and my thoughts around the suffering a lot a
21:07
Speaker 1: lot more differently. But I think also what's really interesting
21:10
Speaker 1: is I was although I was raised around Buddhism. Buddhism
21:14
Speaker 1: and Sri Lanka is more focused on the practice of it,
21:18
Speaker 1: so more around the worship, more around generosity and cultivation
21:23
Speaker 1: of generosity. There was no impetus to practice meditation like
21:27
Speaker 1: that just isn't part of the culture in a lot
21:30
Speaker 1: of Asian countries. Actually, But I think what you said
21:33
Speaker 1: is really true is that there's a crossroads in our
21:37
Speaker 1: life and we were each presented with with moments you
21:41
Speaker 1: know that they're defining moments in our life, and for
21:44
Speaker 1: me it was a divine or defining I'm not sure
21:47
Speaker 1: how to separate the two. It was a moment when
21:51
Speaker 1: someone was saying something very practical to me and it
21:53
Speaker 1: wasn't shrouded in Buddhism at all. Actually, he was like, hey,
21:58
Speaker 1: life contains suffering and I was like, sh yeah, it does.
22:02
Speaker 1: Like no one's ever said that to me like that before.
22:05
Speaker 1: And then it was like, you're suffering isn't personal, And
22:08
Speaker 1: I'm like wow, because you know, when we're going through something,
22:12
Speaker 1: it's like I am anxious, I am suffering, I am lonely,
22:17
Speaker 1: I am the victim. And that might be true, but
22:19
Speaker 1: then you realize so all of us, right, we're all
22:22
Speaker 1: traumatized to some extent. We're all going to experience this
22:27
Speaker 1: at some point in our life and that creates a separation.
22:30
Speaker 1: And that for me was just someone saying something very practical.
22:34
Speaker 1: I didn't decide at that moment I'm going to reconnect
22:36
Speaker 1: to Buddhism. It was much later on where I just
22:40
Speaker 1: studied with various teachers and it made so much sense
22:43
Speaker 1: to me. And that's really what I take from these
22:46
Speaker 1: teachings that it just makes a lot of sense, and
22:49
Speaker 1: it's it doesn't require me to give up any other belief.
22:54
Speaker 1: It doesn't require me to take on this as being
22:57
Speaker 1: true and everything is being false. It's like this is
23:01
Speaker 1: just a recipe for how to navigate my mind and
23:05
Speaker 1: my life. And that just felt very, very serendipitous to me.
23:12
Speaker 1: I love that so much. UM. I still relate to that,
23:15
Speaker 1: and it changes the perspective of how we approach any
23:20
Speaker 1: and everything, you know, it puts us more instead of
23:22
Speaker 1: these like passive participants, we become active participants in our lives,
23:28
Speaker 1: are co creators, you know. I think UM meditation for
23:33
Speaker 1: me really expanded my knowingness of the choice, the power
23:38
Speaker 1: of choice that I hold UM and my ability to
23:41
Speaker 1: pivot whenever the hell I want to, you know, like
23:44
Speaker 1: your ability to just pick and choose what is for
23:47
Speaker 1: me and not take things I don't even take my
23:50
Speaker 1: own criticisms of myself personally, you know. And really it's
23:54
Speaker 1: the beauty of mindfulness, right, It gives us, It gives us, uh,
23:59
Speaker 1: that gap, that space between a stimulus and a response.
24:03
Speaker 1: And I think what you're talking about is just your
24:05
Speaker 1: wisdom in knowing that, over the years of your own practice,
24:09
Speaker 1: you've created these moments of gaps between stimulus and response,
24:14
Speaker 1: and you get to choose wisely at that moment. You know,
24:17
Speaker 1: you get to choose something that leads towards happiness and
24:21
Speaker 1: away from suffering. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You have a book
24:27
Speaker 1: that is coming. Um may to be exact, your book
24:32
Speaker 1: Still Together will be hitting shelves. It's available for preorder now.
24:35
Speaker 1: Everybody listening, so please go on this page, going Amazon,
24:39
Speaker 1: go to wherever you connect with your books. Um. Still
24:42
Speaker 1: Together is a title, and I know you know the
24:44
Speaker 1: background on the book. It takes an active approach to
24:47
Speaker 1: reclaiming true and deep connection in our day to day lives,
24:50
Speaker 1: looking at the feelings associated with disconnection. This guide presents
24:55
Speaker 1: steps through meditation and mindfulness practices to address these feelings.
25:00
Speaker 1: Oh the world needs this. Yeah, I mean the irony
25:06
Speaker 1: of writing a book about connection when I'm disconnected just
25:10
Speaker 1: wasn't It wasn't lost on me, you know, and speak
25:13
Speaker 1: to that. Yeah. I mean. So, I don't know if
25:17
Speaker 1: I've said this to you personally before, but I signed
25:20
Speaker 1: the book deal in and as you probably know, I'm
25:25
Speaker 1: very unorganized. So I signed it and I'm like, Okay,
25:28
Speaker 1: I'll have some time to write it. And literally seven
25:30
Speaker 1: months I didn't touch it. I'm just living my best life.
25:34
Speaker 1: I was in New York City. I was like, just
25:36
Speaker 1: life is great. And then around January and of January
25:40
Speaker 1: my publishers like, hey, like, can you what's happening with
25:43
Speaker 1: the manuscript that you're going to get it through to us?
25:45
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I'm going to start it as soon
25:47
Speaker 1: as I get back to Australia, which was the next week.
25:50
Speaker 1: And I just got back to Australia and that's when
25:54
Speaker 1: COVID like really spread into Australia and the US and
25:59
Speaker 1: we went into lockdown and so we were only allowed
26:03
Speaker 1: out for one hour a day. Uh And for seven
26:06
Speaker 1: months I was living by myself and then all of
26:09
Speaker 1: a sudden, I was like, I've got to write a
26:11
Speaker 1: book about connection when I'm disconnected with one, and it
26:17
Speaker 1: really helped me. But it also it also really inspired
26:22
Speaker 1: me to practice what I was writing, you know, because
26:26
Speaker 1: it wasn't just I was writing it to sell a book.
26:29
Speaker 1: It was like, I'm writing this to actually kill myself,
26:33
Speaker 1: and you know, it just took on a life of
26:36
Speaker 1: its own, to be really honest with you, and a
26:39
Speaker 1: lot of the book explores the way that, you know,
26:41
Speaker 1: in modern life, we disconnect, you know, we disconnect from
26:45
Speaker 1: each other, We disconnect from our bodies, and when our
26:48
Speaker 1: bodies are feeling and we disconnect from the present moment,
26:52
Speaker 1: and that has consequences and ramifications. And then it's it's
26:57
Speaker 1: a call to arms too to reconnect, especially to reconnect
27:01
Speaker 1: with people that we don't agree with or we don't
27:03
Speaker 1: think that we have anything in common with. And it's
27:06
Speaker 1: also a call to arms to reconnect with our bodies,
27:08
Speaker 1: because we tend to as a culture, focus a lot
27:12
Speaker 1: on the mind, you know, our mind, like where it
27:15
Speaker 1: was so obsessed with happiness and productivity and focus and achieving.
27:21
Speaker 1: We completely disconnect from the neck down and from the feeling,
27:25
Speaker 1: from the intuition, from the sense of coming home. And
27:30
Speaker 1: we realize in a year like one matraumatized, the healing
27:35
Speaker 1: begins in the body. It doesn't begin in the mind,
27:37
Speaker 1: because we can tell ourselves, yes, life is going back
27:40
Speaker 1: to normal, but really the body hasn't caught up yet.
27:44
Speaker 1: And for me, that's where I've had to do a
27:46
Speaker 1: lot of the work with my trauma is to create
27:49
Speaker 1: space for compassion to to exist for for the pain.
27:55
Speaker 1: M Yeah, yeah, I think so many people listening to
28:03
Speaker 1: this show especially can really relate to that. A conversation
28:06
Speaker 1: that we have quite a bit here is reconnecting to
28:09
Speaker 1: your body and also um understanding what has kept us
28:15
Speaker 1: separate because you know, I think, especially here, like sometimes
28:19
Speaker 1: our disconnection from our body is one million percent rooted
28:22
Speaker 1: in trauma. But then also you know, for a lot
28:24
Speaker 1: of us here in America, when you live in this
28:26
Speaker 1: system of structural, systemic oppression since the dawn of society here,
28:33
Speaker 1: you know, when you are anything other than white, you
28:36
Speaker 1: have never felt safe in your body. Potentially, you know,
28:40
Speaker 1: and you take on this against us of always imagining
28:43
Speaker 1: that it's you or something wrong with you, And I
28:45
Speaker 1: think it hits every facet like um, there's so many
28:48
Speaker 1: conversations happening around this of even being performative with our
28:52
Speaker 1: bodies in so many different ways, from athleticism to even
28:57
Speaker 1: the way we experience sex, like it just being performance,
29:00
Speaker 1: or even noticing that you're not presently in yourself even
29:05
Speaker 1: when you are in movement and flow with your body. Um.
29:09
Speaker 1: And it's such as someone who has come back into
29:12
Speaker 1: their body, and that's been a huge, huge challenging part
29:16
Speaker 1: of my work with my own journey. Can you speak
29:20
Speaker 1: to what it feels like to be in your body
29:24
Speaker 1: the way that I've been experiencing it. It's just like
29:28
Speaker 1: it is just it's a safety I never knew I
29:31
Speaker 1: had access to. It is a stability and a piece
29:35
Speaker 1: I never even knew was an option until I felt it.
29:39
Speaker 1: You know, I felt the essence of what you just said.
29:42
Speaker 1: I felt that in my body and just how you
29:44
Speaker 1: said it, And that really speaks to it. You know,
29:47
Speaker 1: like when you are in your body, you're communicating on
29:50
Speaker 1: a whole different level and you're receiving on a whole
29:53
Speaker 1: different level, but you're also safe to be yourself. And
29:58
Speaker 1: I think for black and brown for here, but also
30:01
Speaker 1: probably throughout the world. It doesn't feel safe to be ourselves.
30:05
Speaker 1: You know, we are constantly comparing ourselves to culture and
30:11
Speaker 1: what culture tells us we have to look like, and
30:13
Speaker 1: how culture tells us we have to present ourselves, and
30:17
Speaker 1: how culture tones our emotions and our feelings, and so
30:23
Speaker 1: being in our body is a strength and it's a courage,
30:27
Speaker 1: but it's also a deep love we have for ourselves
30:31
Speaker 1: because we can respect ourselves and us to stay in it,
30:35
Speaker 1: you know, and we'll never abandon ourselves. I think that
30:39
Speaker 1: is the most profound lesson I've learned that when I
30:42
Speaker 1: am not in my body, my body, I am abandoning
30:46
Speaker 1: myself in thought, in my deed, or in my action,
30:50
Speaker 1: I am abandoning myself. And I think about what it
30:54
Speaker 1: would be like to abandon my daughter, and it just
30:57
Speaker 1: breaks my heart and it just breaks my and I'm like,
31:01
Speaker 1: I do that to myself so much. I do that
31:04
Speaker 1: to myself so much. And if there is someone with
31:07
Speaker 1: a big personality and a big energy and then I
31:10
Speaker 1: shrink and I change how I speak or change how
31:13
Speaker 1: I show up, I'm abandoning myself if someone makes me
31:17
Speaker 1: angry and I don't express that in a healthy way.
31:21
Speaker 1: I abandoned myself when I'm presented with love and I
31:25
Speaker 1: can't receive that love, I'm abandoning myself. And we all,
31:30
Speaker 1: I think we'll have different variations of this, But the
31:35
Speaker 1: greatest work of our time, I think, is to remember
31:39
Speaker 1: that we are whole and we are complete, and despite
31:43
Speaker 1: what the world tells us, hold that thought. We are
31:47
Speaker 1: coming right back. You know that is the work, right
31:58
Speaker 1: because I find you know, and I probably say this
32:02
Speaker 1: every episode, So apologies listeners if you're tired of hearing this,
32:05
Speaker 1: but um, you know it, there's so many conversations happening
32:11
Speaker 1: about mental health, so many conversations happening about mindfulness. Um,
32:15
Speaker 1: and they're expansive, and there's so many facets, Like it's
32:17
Speaker 1: such a it's such a vast umbrella with so many
32:20
Speaker 1: different lanes underneath it and and so many different pathways.
32:23
Speaker 1: But the work is really rooted in that experience of oneself,
32:34
Speaker 1: in the fullness of that, So really understanding that like
32:38
Speaker 1: on Earth as souls, right, I think we've all kind
32:41
Speaker 1: of established that baseline of were spiritual beings having a
32:43
Speaker 1: human experience. So shout out to our humanity here on earth,
32:47
Speaker 1: you know, as as we're kind of steeped in that
32:51
Speaker 1: it's utilizing the gifts and the best assets. Like our
32:56
Speaker 1: body is actually our technology, right, like just the way
33:00
Speaker 1: you know, a computer we view as a technology and
33:03
Speaker 1: and the piece to get the things done that we need,
33:06
Speaker 1: whether that's connection or work. As a human being, our
33:09
Speaker 1: body is our technology, and so really understanding how to
33:13
Speaker 1: be with it and utilize it for your highest good
33:17
Speaker 1: as part of what this experience is meant to be.
33:20
Speaker 1: I'm curious, you know, as we kind of talk about that, um,
33:24
Speaker 1: just to reflect back to how we started this piece
33:26
Speaker 1: of the conversation, Like in this leg of my journey,
33:28
Speaker 1: I'm even noticing, you know, this is my soul's house.
33:33
Speaker 1: This this this bag of bones that I'm in, this
33:36
Speaker 1: is my soul's house. And so part of my healing
33:39
Speaker 1: now has really just been and honoring that, and so
33:43
Speaker 1: you know, really creating ritual around that, really knowing how
33:46
Speaker 1: to be with myself and you know, as as as
33:49
Speaker 1: a man, I'm curious of what that feels like for you,
33:53
Speaker 1: because I think for women were encouraged right to be
33:56
Speaker 1: with our bodies, or we're encouraged to be sometimes very
33:59
Speaker 1: hyper aware of our body these whether that is, you know,
34:01
Speaker 1: from an aesthetic standpoint sexually, but our bodies are always
34:05
Speaker 1: at the forefront of our mind um and the forefront
34:07
Speaker 1: of everyone else's mind all the time, right, And so
34:11
Speaker 1: even in reclaiming that, that's been so powerful because so
34:14
Speaker 1: many women and girls are trained to look at their
34:17
Speaker 1: bodies um, just in the way it's received by the
34:20
Speaker 1: people viewing them outside of ourselves. So that reclamation um,
34:26
Speaker 1: sometimes that really looks like even relearning how you want
34:31
Speaker 1: to move or what is maybe perceived performative femininity versus
34:36
Speaker 1: the deepest part of how you internally want to express
34:40
Speaker 1: with your essences. So I'm curious how that feels for
34:44
Speaker 1: you or or how you have observed that, either in
34:46
Speaker 1: yourself or with all of the men that you really
34:49
Speaker 1: help heal. I want to take a moment to see
34:53
Speaker 1: how that land, because you just dropped some gems right there, um,
34:59
Speaker 1: you know with Really it's so wonderful to speak to
35:02
Speaker 1: anyone that's fully embodied. And I think whenever we speak,
35:06
Speaker 1: I feel that you know from you like you you
35:09
Speaker 1: feel this in your bones, and it's not performative and
35:11
Speaker 1: it doesn't come from the head. It comes from the body.
35:15
Speaker 1: I think as men were not trained how to be
35:17
Speaker 1: in our body. We're so trained to think our way
35:21
Speaker 1: through things, you know, and that's why we cause the
35:25
Speaker 1: majority of the harm in this world. It's because we're
35:28
Speaker 1: so cognized. We think from the head. We don't think
35:33
Speaker 1: from the body, and we're not We're not allowed to
35:37
Speaker 1: feel anger, We're not allowed to feel softness, we're not
35:42
Speaker 1: allowed to feel compassion. We don't know this because many
35:45
Speaker 1: of us aren't given that opportunity in our childhood. You know,
35:50
Speaker 1: we don't have the best role models. And I think
35:54
Speaker 1: our work is as men is not to throw out
35:58
Speaker 1: this idea of masculine because yes, there's toxic masculinity and
36:04
Speaker 1: all of that, and I don't disagree with that, but
36:07
Speaker 1: I think it's to evolve, and it's to also recognize
36:10
Speaker 1: the harm that we cause to ourselves and when we
36:13
Speaker 1: do that, we cause to everyone else around us. Right,
36:18
Speaker 1: And a lot of the work I've done with men
36:20
Speaker 1: around the world is to invite them to stay in
36:23
Speaker 1: the body when things get uncomfortable, you know, and and
36:27
Speaker 1: to be able to acknowledge that and to be able
36:30
Speaker 1: to use the rage that's coming up, because you know,
36:33
Speaker 1: rage isn't bad. Like I grew up with a very
36:36
Speaker 1: very angry father and he yelled and he you know,
36:40
Speaker 1: he used to spank me and my my bro and
36:43
Speaker 1: you know, I love him to death. He's like an
36:44
Speaker 1: amazing father, but you know I experienced that, and now
36:48
Speaker 1: in my relationship, any time my anger comes up, I'm like, well, bad,
36:53
Speaker 1: get that. Get make sure that's under control. Don't be
36:57
Speaker 1: your dad. And even of the intention is pure, the
37:02
Speaker 1: the output can be quite harmful to ourselves. Because anger
37:05
Speaker 1: isn't bad. Anger is a message, right, Anger is it
37:09
Speaker 1: telling you something. But the work is to create space
37:13
Speaker 1: for that and then to use that anger in a
37:15
Speaker 1: way that doesn't harm others. Right. And that's where men
37:19
Speaker 1: have to really begin to re learn our relationship to
37:23
Speaker 1: emotion and to feeling and to hold space for each other.
37:27
Speaker 1: You know, I think that's something that's been really profound
37:30
Speaker 1: for me. I joined a men's group, started a men's
37:33
Speaker 1: group in two seventeen um, and we just spoke about
37:38
Speaker 1: our feelings. And the first, the first few times we
37:41
Speaker 1: did that, it was like weird. And but then he realized, like, Okay,
37:45
Speaker 1: here is another man watching this other guy completely breakdown
37:51
Speaker 1: in tears, and he's not going over to him. He's
37:53
Speaker 1: not saying it's okay, it's all right, just cheer up.
37:56
Speaker 1: He's just silent, and he's just holding space for another
38:00
Speaker 1: man to feel these feelings. And UM, I have personally
38:05
Speaker 1: very very grateful for experiences like that, And I think
38:07
Speaker 1: there's a lot of deep work we need to do
38:09
Speaker 1: as men, for sure, to to reclaim ourselves and to
38:13
Speaker 1: reclaim our bodies and to honor the women in our life.
38:16
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, thank you for saying that. Yeah, sometimes it
38:21
Speaker 1: feels like, you know, and this might be really rooted
38:24
Speaker 1: in my human experience, but sometimes it does feel like
38:28
Speaker 1: as we're all diligently doing the work, we can still
38:31
Speaker 1: UM only raise our collective consciousness as high as men's
38:36
Speaker 1: healing will allow, you know. And I think women were
38:40
Speaker 1: naturally for many of us. Even if even if we
38:43
Speaker 1: don't you know, UM in this incarnation are not able
38:47
Speaker 1: to become fully embodied and expressed. Our training is and
38:51
Speaker 1: NURTURANCEUM our training is in at least some level of
38:56
Speaker 1: transparency and openness. We are. We're even UM pretty enthusiastically
39:01
Speaker 1: guided to start gossiping really young, constantly talking about shared
39:05
Speaker 1: experience or opinions or thoughts or how we're experiencing ourselves. Um,
39:09
Speaker 1: and that that is an extended to men there on
39:11
Speaker 1: the complete other end of the spectrum, where it's like suppress,
39:15
Speaker 1: suppress all the feelings all the time. Don't even be
39:19
Speaker 1: extra happy when you feel happy, and definitely don't um,
39:23
Speaker 1: don't express when you're feeling sad, discomfort, excuse me, disappointed
39:28
Speaker 1: or shamed. How how does a man begin his relationship
39:31
Speaker 1: of settling into his body like in a moment where
39:35
Speaker 1: that sacred rage or that anger is coming up? How
39:39
Speaker 1: how can someone begin to shift into that role of
39:43
Speaker 1: observer and just being with themselves and that being enough
39:50
Speaker 1: with tenderness. I don't know if there's any other way
39:54
Speaker 1: like it's it's with tenderness. It's like that recognizing that
40:01
Speaker 1: this is hard for all of us. We're all traumatized,
40:04
Speaker 1: like we're all we're all in pain to some degree,
40:08
Speaker 1: even if we don't know it, and if we don't
40:09
Speaker 1: know what it means, we're in more pain that we
40:12
Speaker 1: then we actually you are aware of and we have
40:15
Speaker 1: to be gentle with ourselves. We have to be curious
40:18
Speaker 1: with ourselves. We have to reach our for help. You know,
40:22
Speaker 1: I think the combination of meditation and therapy for me
40:26
Speaker 1: is being a game changer. It's genuinely changed my life
40:30
Speaker 1: and in terms changed my relationships, you know. And I
40:34
Speaker 1: couldn't have done that alone with meditation, and I couldn't
40:37
Speaker 1: have done that alone just with with therapy. I think
40:40
Speaker 1: friendship is also a mirror as well, you know, having
40:45
Speaker 1: men around me that can speak about what they're feeling
40:48
Speaker 1: and they aren't afraid to hold me accountable to a
40:52
Speaker 1: higher standard or a higher version of myself, that is
40:55
Speaker 1: being tremendously helpful. And then also like recognizing that women
41:03
Speaker 1: are such a what women are such wonderful teachers, like
41:07
Speaker 1: they genuinely they genuinely are. And I look at my
41:11
Speaker 1: mom and you know, I've got to love relationship with
41:14
Speaker 1: my mom. Wonderful woman and the amazing woman that Over
41:18
Speaker 1: the years, you realize how your parents have traumatized you
41:21
Speaker 1: in different ways. But then you you remember how much
41:26
Speaker 1: they had to hold right, they had to hold They
41:31
Speaker 1: had to hold their sons, they had to hold their husbands,
41:35
Speaker 1: they had to hold culture, they had to hold the patriarchy,
41:40
Speaker 1: and on top of that, they had to you know,
41:42
Speaker 1: look good and be skinny and you know, put on
41:45
Speaker 1: makeup and do all of this, and if you can
41:48
Speaker 1: reflect on that, you realize that there's just a natural
41:52
Speaker 1: empathy that just grows, like genuinely, Like when I look
41:55
Speaker 1: at my mom now, I'm just like, wow, Mom, Like
41:59
Speaker 1: you just did the best that you could. That holy
42:02
Speaker 1: Holy Moly held so much right. And I think just
42:07
Speaker 1: remembering our humanity and moments like that and remembering um
42:13
Speaker 1: suffering of another naturally softens you. It naturally softens you.
42:20
Speaker 1: That was beautiful. Yeah, I think all of us needed
42:23
Speaker 1: to hear that as that reminder, you know, especially especially
42:27
Speaker 1: those of us that connected to the lifelong path of
42:30
Speaker 1: doing the work, because I do think that sometimes we
42:33
Speaker 1: get a little bit, uh, we're really feeling ourselves right
42:39
Speaker 1: as we're healing, and we get that, we get this
42:41
Speaker 1: kind of momentum going and it's just like, yeah, look
42:43
Speaker 1: at me, like slaying these dragons, meeting these monsters. I'm
42:47
Speaker 1: so strong, I'm healing my lineage, breaking through ancestral trauma.
42:51
Speaker 1: And you know, it's like we're giving ourselves these pat
42:53
Speaker 1: on the backs, which we're deserving of because the work
42:57
Speaker 1: is work, um, and it takes, it takes it a man.
43:00
Speaker 1: It's amount of courage to face yourself. But our collective
43:05
Speaker 1: consciousness has risen to a point where it's also allowed
43:08
Speaker 1: us space to do that in a way that other
43:11
Speaker 1: generations didn't have. And so extending that grace that you
43:15
Speaker 1: just really beautifully shared to your mother, and and specifically
43:20
Speaker 1: in recognizing the fact that there were so many facets
43:24
Speaker 1: of things that she had to hold, and there were
43:29
Speaker 1: so many, um potentially layers of against us that she
43:35
Speaker 1: held for herself from all the views of society on
43:39
Speaker 1: top of her own spiritual curriculum. And so to acknowledge
43:42
Speaker 1: that it is so powerful, and I think so many
43:44
Speaker 1: of us, you know, it's it's a constant ebiflow of
43:48
Speaker 1: making peace with that, you know, because yeah, so beautifully
43:53
Speaker 1: said Debby, And you know this is you talked about
43:55
Speaker 1: collective consciousness. And I think the way it is going
43:58
Speaker 1: to continue to rise is to recognize that each of
44:02
Speaker 1: us is a byproduct of causes and conditions like we
44:07
Speaker 1: we really are. Like if if you know, if I
44:11
Speaker 1: was born in in in l A, I would have
44:15
Speaker 1: had a very different experience by the nature of how
44:18
Speaker 1: I look compared to if I was born in Sri Lanka.
44:23
Speaker 1: My parents if they weren't immigrants, would have a very
44:26
Speaker 1: different effect on me if they stayed in Sri Lanka, right,
44:31
Speaker 1: and each of us we can't we can't always choose
44:34
Speaker 1: the conditions that were raised in or that we experience.
44:38
Speaker 1: And if we can see that this is my work.
44:41
Speaker 1: I know with the people that I disagree with, the
44:43
Speaker 1: people that have the complete opposite opinion about me on
44:48
Speaker 1: any level, if I can understand, like they are not
44:51
Speaker 1: a bad person, they are just a byproduct of the
44:54
Speaker 1: causes and conditions that they experienced, there's healing in that moment.
44:59
Speaker 1: There's the space for understanding. And I genuinely think only
45:04
Speaker 1: understanding will heal our society. It's understanding and empathy. And
45:09
Speaker 1: if I can sit in front of someone and feel
45:12
Speaker 1: their pain and here they're suffering and they have the
45:17
Speaker 1: complete different opinion to me, like there is a moment
45:20
Speaker 1: there of connection because at that moment, me and this
45:24
Speaker 1: person are bondering, bonding under the fact that we both suffer,
45:28
Speaker 1: and there is common ground right at that moment and
45:31
Speaker 1: with common ground like we heal mm hmm mm hmm.
45:36
Speaker 1: That's so good. There was so much there that was Yeah,
45:42
Speaker 1: let's play this back a few times, everyone and take
45:44
Speaker 1: a few notes. Um, specifically, when you said each of
45:47
Speaker 1: us is a product of causes and conditions. Wow, yeah,
45:54
Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a journal to that. Later, Um, could
45:57
Speaker 1: you tell me a little bit more about your book
46:01
Speaker 1: Still Together that is in stores available for preorder. Now,
46:05
Speaker 1: you know, speaking to this connection specifically, you're exploring ways
46:09
Speaker 1: in this book that we feel detachment from our lives,
46:13
Speaker 1: our goals, and our friendships and how to begin to
46:16
Speaker 1: reclaim ourselves through human connection. Why is the human connection
46:21
Speaker 1: such a necessary tool and how do you explore that
46:23
Speaker 1: in this book? Well, in my in my research, I
46:27
Speaker 1: really explored Maslin's hierarchy of needs, right. I looked at
46:30
Speaker 1: that and you know, friendships and social circles, it's it's
46:36
Speaker 1: up near the top of the pyramid. And I make
46:39
Speaker 1: a case that I think this is as important as
46:42
Speaker 1: food and water. And the reason I say that is because, Okay,
46:47
Speaker 1: we might not die if we don't see a friend
46:50
Speaker 1: for a month's time, you know, but I think we
46:54
Speaker 1: have we suffer psychologically in that in that moment the
46:57
Speaker 1: ability to as as as infants, to have a parent
47:03
Speaker 1: that mirrors your emotions and your needs really changes the
47:07
Speaker 1: course of your life. Right, that's connection right there. And
47:11
Speaker 1: as adults, the ability to have friends that do the
47:14
Speaker 1: exact same thing, or a support system and do the
47:17
Speaker 1: exact same thing can heal you. And I'm not talking
47:21
Speaker 1: about the kind of friendship where everyone is giving you
47:23
Speaker 1: their opinion of how you should do this and how
47:25
Speaker 1: you should do that. We need those friends too, But
47:28
Speaker 1: I think human connection is the foundation to our happiness.
47:32
Speaker 1: I don't think it's possible to be truly happy without that, right,
47:37
Speaker 1: And so many connections, I'll speak for myself, um, aren't authentic.
47:45
Speaker 1: You know that they're sometimes relationships or connections of convenience. Um,
47:50
Speaker 1: And that's okay too. Like a lot of my high
47:52
Speaker 1: school friends, we catch up every now and again, and
47:55
Speaker 1: it's fun and it's easy and it's simple. But I
47:57
Speaker 1: don't have those heart to heart moments with them, right,
48:01
Speaker 1: I don't have those experiences where I am genuinely getting
48:05
Speaker 1: a sense of this person's heart at that moment. And
48:09
Speaker 1: I think that's a as a byproduct of social conditioning,
48:12
Speaker 1: Like we we aren't trained to do that. We don't
48:17
Speaker 1: slow our mind enough to be present with someone and
48:20
Speaker 1: so um, yeah, I mean this. This book leverages mindfulness philosophy,
48:25
Speaker 1: Buddhist psychology. It looks at some research around connection and
48:32
Speaker 1: you know, our attachments to things like money, and our
48:35
Speaker 1: attachments to our mobile phone and technology at large. And
48:39
Speaker 1: it doesn't actually tell you don't do this, because I
48:43
Speaker 1: don't believe in binaries like that. It's more an invitation
48:47
Speaker 1: to consider the impact this is having in your life.
48:49
Speaker 1: And if it's having it's having no impact at all,
48:52
Speaker 1: then that's great, then life is good for you. Um,
48:56
Speaker 1: keep doing what you're doing. But it's also an invitation
48:59
Speaker 1: to big curious if they if you ever feel like
49:02
Speaker 1: there's something missing in your life, and that's an invitation
49:05
Speaker 1: to explore what connection means to you. So something just
49:11
Speaker 1: came up for me, actually, and what you said that
49:14
Speaker 1: that is really beautiful to savor. Um, what I'm hearing
49:18
Speaker 1: and what you're saying about connection is also it's so
49:21
Speaker 1: necessary for us because that is how we also experience ourselves.
49:25
Speaker 1: We can learn who we are and make the pivots
49:30
Speaker 1: or make the refinements really based on that mirroring and
49:34
Speaker 1: that reflection from another person. And what's what's really beautiful
49:38
Speaker 1: about that to me is there's a book called Conversations
49:41
Speaker 1: with God of referenced on the show I Love Love
49:44
Speaker 1: that book. But something that really struck me that I
49:48
Speaker 1: had always thought my whole life but I didn't have
49:50
Speaker 1: language for was in the book. Um. The author is
49:54
Speaker 1: channeling with God and asks, you know, why why do
49:56
Speaker 1: we exist? Why did why did you even create human beings?
50:00
Speaker 1: And in the book, God responds by saying, Um, I
50:03
Speaker 1: longed to experience myself and what I'm hearing in even
50:09
Speaker 1: the beauty, and I don't even think I had. You know,
50:13
Speaker 1: I've always been aware of the beautiful, reflective, mirrored nature
50:17
Speaker 1: of relationship. But I think this really just anchored for
50:22
Speaker 1: me the deeper understanding of how necessary connection and community
50:28
Speaker 1: is because it is also what allows us to experience
50:31
Speaker 1: our own selves. Yeah. You know, the Buddha has um
50:37
Speaker 1: three jewels that he talks about that we take refuge in,
50:41
Speaker 1: and you know this is sometimes in in Asian countries
50:44
Speaker 1: represented by an umbrella, because we take refuge under an
50:47
Speaker 1: umbrella when it's raining. I've got a tattoo of my
50:49
Speaker 1: arm which has it like an umbrella, and we take
50:53
Speaker 1: refuge in three things. The Buddha Damasanga and that that
50:57
Speaker 1: essentially represents the is someone's ability to awaken, just like
51:03
Speaker 1: the Buddha did, someone's ability to overcome suffering. The Dama
51:08
Speaker 1: represents the way things are like so a set of
51:12
Speaker 1: teachings that guide us throughout our life. And the sun
51:15
Speaker 1: girl represents the community and just this teaching on a refuge,
51:22
Speaker 1: like we can take refuge in our friends and our
51:25
Speaker 1: community when times are hard. We can take refuge in
51:28
Speaker 1: God or spirituality or consciousness or any belief system when
51:33
Speaker 1: times are hard, and we can take refuge in the
51:36
Speaker 1: understanding that we will one day overcome. That has just
51:40
Speaker 1: been so profound and I have, for the longest time
51:44
Speaker 1: have been teaching that meditation isn't going to save your life.
51:49
Speaker 1: Meditation won't fix all of your problems. It's a combination
51:53
Speaker 1: of things. And a good diet is one. Having friends
51:57
Speaker 1: in the community is another one, you know, and having
52:00
Speaker 1: a therapist is also another one. Like all of these
52:03
Speaker 1: these things are so vital, but we don't live in
52:06
Speaker 1: a vacuum and we have to constantly interact with people,
52:10
Speaker 1: and so having a community and having a suner or
52:14
Speaker 1: friends that you trust um is vital for our spiritual
52:18
Speaker 1: well being. Mm hmm. I received. Yeah, yes, well, so
52:25
Speaker 1: I take back what I said at the top of
52:26
Speaker 1: this interview about wanting to now be isolated all the time,
52:29
Speaker 1: even in the new normal. I think, really, it's it's
52:33
Speaker 1: the shift of I'm only available for the deepest relationships,
52:39
Speaker 1: that's all I'm available for. Actually, yeah, no, it's it's
52:44
Speaker 1: it's profound and you know, I consider you like we have.
52:47
Speaker 1: This saying in Buddhism is called kalian a kalian amita
52:51
Speaker 1: mean spiritual friend. Um. A spiritual friend is someone that
52:55
Speaker 1: you can have conversations like we always tend to have
52:58
Speaker 1: when way together. And I can see to you that
53:00
Speaker 1: and there's something really healing from me and knowing that
53:03
Speaker 1: I have a friend like you that can explore these
53:06
Speaker 1: topics with you, know that we can we can geek
53:09
Speaker 1: out on this house and ours and ours and not
53:12
Speaker 1: have an answer, but just debate them, debate them, and
53:16
Speaker 1: and there's something really wonderful about that because we we
53:22
Speaker 1: sacrifice our spiritual well being in one life. And spirituality
53:26
Speaker 1: can mean anything to you, like it doesn't really, I
53:28
Speaker 1: don't really care what it means to you, But we
53:31
Speaker 1: sacrifice that because we disconnect from the bodies and our
53:34
Speaker 1: spirit is in the body, that spirit isn't in the mind.
53:38
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you so much for that, and I
53:40
Speaker 1: reflect that right back to you. We definitely our sole family.
53:43
Speaker 1: And you know, you know what's so amazing Minos in
53:46
Speaker 1: hearing you say that, I'll just this is the craving
53:49
Speaker 1: I have in my life right now for the people
53:51
Speaker 1: in my life is I just want to be like
53:57
Speaker 1: with people like you someplace and we're just quiet together
54:02
Speaker 1: to write like, I just I want to experience the
54:06
Speaker 1: people that I feel connected to in ways that are
54:10
Speaker 1: so far removed from the societal constructs of how we
54:14
Speaker 1: are meant to look at friendship or relationship, you know, like,
54:18
Speaker 1: can we just go sit somewhere and be quiet at
54:23
Speaker 1: the same time and that be enough and and find
54:26
Speaker 1: other ways to communicate with one another? You know what,
54:29
Speaker 1: what are you sensing in your body? What are you feeling?
54:32
Speaker 1: Can we just appreciate the what is in the moment
54:37
Speaker 1: and allow nature and all the outside influences to kind
54:41
Speaker 1: of inform the experience, Like I am craving that, I'm
54:44
Speaker 1: craving silence with people I care for. I'm craving, Um,
54:51
Speaker 1: I'm just craving relating to people in a way that
54:54
Speaker 1: are so fully deprogrammed from the lens that was thrust
54:59
Speaker 1: upon each of us being on earth and being in
55:02
Speaker 1: a society. Watch out, your DEVI and I are going
55:05
Speaker 1: to be running in a retreat very soon. The sounds
55:07
Speaker 1: like a retreat idea, you know. I think for me,
55:13
Speaker 1: it's not even that they have d programmed. It's that
55:15
Speaker 1: they have a desire to explore, you know, because I
55:20
Speaker 1: definitely don't think I've awakened or I've enlightened. I definitely
55:25
Speaker 1: have the desire to do that, you know for sure.
55:28
Speaker 1: And I think that desire is a healthy desire and
55:32
Speaker 1: having friends along the path makes it joyful, right because
55:35
Speaker 1: otherwise it's like real morbid sometimes sitting with your mind
55:39
Speaker 1: and noticing up all your trauma. I'm like, this is
55:42
Speaker 1: like boring, like but then you have a group of
55:46
Speaker 1: friends around you that that you can joke about it
55:49
Speaker 1: with and you can you can support you on the path.
55:52
Speaker 1: And you know, a yoga studio can act like this,
55:55
Speaker 1: and meditation studio can be that, an act can be
55:57
Speaker 1: like that, whatever it is. For whoever's listening to this, UM,
56:01
Speaker 1: I invite you to find your people. Yeah, just find
56:04
Speaker 1: your people and then hold them tight. M I love that.
56:08
Speaker 1: Find your tribe and also don't have any attachment to
56:11
Speaker 1: what that's supposed to look like, you know, like, really
56:14
Speaker 1: be open to the possibilities of who could show up
56:17
Speaker 1: in your life and whatever shape or form, and finding
56:21
Speaker 1: the ways that they can be. Um, you know, the
56:24
Speaker 1: synchronousities within which you guys were connected, and finding the
56:27
Speaker 1: beauty in it. But Nose, thank you for coming on
56:30
Speaker 1: the show. I am so grateful for your time always.
56:34
Speaker 1: I love I love chatting to you. We need to
56:36
Speaker 1: do this a lot more way more. Let's go be
56:39
Speaker 1: quiet together. Your books still together, everyone, make sure you
56:42
Speaker 1: grab that copy. And of course, um, how can everyone
56:45
Speaker 1: find you? How can they connect? Yeah? They can find
56:48
Speaker 1: me on open like I teach on their teach life classes,
56:51
Speaker 1: meditation classes. They can find me on the Instagram. They
56:54
Speaker 1: can find me on my website. I'm really bad at
56:57
Speaker 1: selling myself if you haven't picked that up. But if
57:04
Speaker 1: if whatever else said speaks to you, then I'm sure
57:06
Speaker 1: you'll find a way to to find me. Oh I
57:09
Speaker 1: love that. I love that. Yeah, follow him on Instagram.
57:12
Speaker 1: He also just did this really beautiful piece for Vogue magazine,
57:16
Speaker 1: So I really highly suggest everyone go check that out.
57:24
Speaker 1: At the end of every show, I love to ask
57:26
Speaker 1: the guests to provide a little soul work for the listeners,
57:29
Speaker 1: and so that can be either savored, thought journalinge, prompt,
57:35
Speaker 1: a quote that you love, but something that for those
57:39
Speaker 1: that feel called um, something that they can take away
57:42
Speaker 1: and spend some time with after this show ends. Being
57:48
Speaker 1: present doesn't mean feeling good mm hmm. And so that
57:56
Speaker 1: is more an invitation to consider when you are deeply
57:59
Speaker 1: present and it doesn't start to feel good, can you
58:02
Speaker 1: be okay with that? Wow? Mic drop wow that oh wow, Yeah,
58:12
Speaker 1: the way you phrase that love it. I will be
58:16
Speaker 1: spending time with that as well. Minos. I hope to
58:19
Speaker 1: see you soon. Thank you for coming to the show.
58:22
Speaker 1: Thank yeah. I love all the things that you do.
58:26
Speaker 1: Thank you, sister. I'll see you very very soon. Hey.
58:30
Speaker 1: Find me on social Let's connect at Debbie Brown. That's
58:34
Speaker 1: Twitter and Instagram, or go to my website Debbie Brown
58:38
Speaker 1: dot com. And if you're listening to the show on
58:40
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, please please please don't forget to rate, review,
58:47
Speaker 1: and subscribe and send this episode to a friend. Dropping
58:51
Speaker 1: Jims is the production of I Heart Radio and the
58:53
Speaker 1: Black Effect Network. It's produced by Triple and Me Debbie Brown.
58:58
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the I
59:01
Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
59:04
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.