Latest / Collectors MD Features / #18: When Collecting Becomes Compulsion: The Hobby Industry's Hidden Gambling Problem | Evive Live

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#18: When Collecting Becomes Compulsion: The Hobby Industry's Hidden Gambling Problem | Evive Live · Collectors MD Features

0:00
oh yeah my kid's just ripping pokemon cards oh
0:02
he's selling cards at a card show or online he's
0:06
learning how to you know transact he's learning
0:09
how to do business at a young age it's actually
0:11
a good thing when in reality they're just being
0:13
conditioned through influence through social
0:16
media that this is completely acceptable and
0:20
i wasn't the type of gambler that would you know
0:24
be able to lose a couple hundred bucks and then
0:27
walk away Anytime I started to lose, I would
0:30
double down. Hey, everyone. Welcome to another
0:32
episode of Evive Live. My name is Adam Lyons,
0:35
the host of the Modern Meeting Podcast. I am
0:37
here with Christina Cook from the Broke Girls
0:39
Society. Christina, how are we doing? We're doing
0:42
all right. We're doing all right. Yeah. I mean,
0:45
you know, if there's one thing that I love to
0:49
do, especially in the last four years of my recovery,
0:51
I love when I learn shit. I know that sounds
0:53
corny, but like I loved learning about. the world
0:57
of hobby breaking, ripping. Like it was, my head
1:03
is spinning, but it was, it was awesome to talk
1:05
to. We talked to Alyx Effron, the founder of Collectors
1:10
MD. Yeah. Yeah. I was absolutely fascinated by
1:14
the conversation because even though I've been
1:16
working in this space almost five years and I've
1:18
thought I've heard every story, it's just interesting
1:22
to see how gambling can translate into so many
1:25
different things. And it seems like it's just
1:27
so more acceptable, right? Like hobbies, hobby.
1:31
What is the definition of a hobby? Right. And
1:33
it's just like, so you never think about hobbies
1:35
being. Even though I will say I used to joke
1:40
that I should start a hobbies anonymous because
1:43
I but my version of that was just starting a
1:46
new hobby and then just moving on. But when I
1:48
would start that hobby, I'd buy everything I
1:50
needed for the hobby. I would get into it and
1:52
then build. I was just like, no, I need everything
1:56
to start it. And then I would never really get
1:58
into it. And then so like that's kind of my experience
2:01
with hobbies. But he really, really. opened that
2:06
book and showed us that no this is this is a
2:09
really really um serious topic yeah and and like
2:15
all I could think of was like you know because
2:18
I was coming into this conversation not knowing
2:20
a lot at all but by the end of it for me it was
2:24
just like it seems like it's been a perfect storm
2:26
of like social media gambling greed you know
2:31
money and you know like just like the immaturity
2:35
i mean the there's there's kids that are you
2:39
know there's no regular i mean this is the truly
2:41
the wild wild west when it comes to this this
2:45
whole this whole scene and it's just it's so
2:48
you know i said it on the interview i said in
2:52
the conversation with Alyx like it's just another
2:54
it seems like another thing that we ruined right
2:56
like i can remember growing up going to card
2:58
shows with my dad And, you know, like and then
3:01
I got the Beckett book and I would look up to
3:04
see how much my Cal Ripken rookie card was. I
3:06
mean, now it's just it's just a whole nother
3:09
world. And it's just it just seems chaotic the
3:13
way that it's the way that it's set up. Well,
3:16
if you think back to your own gambling harms
3:19
and when you were in that active addiction, like,
3:21
do you remember how chaotic? Oh, my God. So many
3:25
similarities. But even when he was kind of breaking
3:27
it down on the way that. that these places reach
3:32
out the emails that they send. It's very, it's
3:35
very gambling ask, you know, free incentives,
3:39
things like that, which very much mirrored the
3:42
spaces of like free bets, free play prizes, things
3:46
like that. If you spend so much money, you get
3:48
this. And it was just really fascinating for
3:50
him to kind of take us into that world and a
3:53
world that. And I'm going to be really honest.
3:55
I haven't really been too curious about until
3:58
hearing his side of things. And now, yeah, now
4:02
I'm in. It's like, now you can't not, not see
4:06
it. Like you, you see now it's just like, even
4:08
with my nieces and nephews, it's just like, now
4:11
I'm going to be hyper -focused on kind of what,
4:13
what they're doing. And, you know, we see things
4:16
like the little boo -boos and, and. I'll just
4:18
share this story and then we'll just get into
4:20
the episode. But I was at the mall recently with
4:22
my niece and she really wanted one of those little
4:25
boo -boos. I hope I'm saying them right. That
4:27
everybody was talking about. And they were like,
4:29
I didn't really know much about them because
4:33
I'm 47. But it really was like, we stopped at
4:37
this thing and he was like, you can buy one for
4:40
this amount or you can buy three for, basically
4:44
you get one free. Of course, my niece was like,
4:48
she just wanted one. And I was like, OK, I'll
4:51
get you one. But you don't know what it is like.
4:53
You don't know what one you're getting. There's
4:55
more that are more valuable or more desirable.
4:59
And it felt so much like gambling to me to buy
5:02
the three because you could get three of the
5:04
same things or whatever. And I said, I'll get
5:07
you one just because I'm I'm here to spoil you
5:10
today. Um, but it really kind of made me think
5:13
about the gambling aspect for me, like to buy
5:16
three, get two free. I mean, buy three, get one
5:19
free. And then, but you still don't know what
5:21
you're getting. So there's that element, right?
5:24
Yeah. My nephew, my nephews, my nephew does the
5:26
same thing. I remember, uh, we were at like a
5:29
family thing and he had told another one of my
5:33
nieces that he got a little boo -boo for Christmas
5:36
and the first thing they said was, Oh, which
5:38
one did you get? Did you get the special one
5:39
or did you get this one? And you, it's just hitting
5:42
me now that like, it's the same thing. God, same
5:45
thing. Well, I hope this, this conversation speaks
5:50
to you in the way that it did with us. It was
5:52
very informative and we appreciate Alyx coming
5:55
on. So let's get into this episode. Hey everyone,
5:58
another episode of Evive Live. This week we have
6:01
the founder of Collectors MD, Alyx Effron. Alyx,
6:06
welcome to Evive Live. Adam, Christina, thanks
6:09
so much for having me. Really excited to be here
6:12
and have this conversation. We've been doing
6:15
some amazing things with Evive and this has been
6:18
something I've been looking forward to for some
6:20
time. Yeah, so before we get into kind of your
6:24
story and everything, you got to tell us, because...
6:27
I had baseball cards when I was a kid and that's
6:30
about it. But give us the cliff notes of what
6:33
is Collectors MD and what is the problem that
6:37
you're trying to solve in the space? Yeah. So
6:42
I didn't start Collectors MD because I was anti
6:46
-hobby, anti -gambling, anti -collecting, anything
6:50
like that. I started it because I love collecting.
6:53
I love the hobby. I've been doing it my whole
6:55
life. I grew up, you know, with a grandfather
7:01
who was an avid watch collector. Like he loved
7:06
luxury watches and I would always marvel at them.
7:08
And, you know, it was always just kind of rooted
7:10
in my, I think my DNA. And so as I got a bit
7:13
older, I got into things like memorabilia and
7:16
sneakers, obviously watches too. Fast forward
7:20
to the pandemic, everybody was on lockdown, the
7:23
sports card hobby. absolutely exploded. And it
7:27
became this phenomenon of sorts where people
7:30
were able to sort of interact and connect with
7:33
one another virtually. And it was actually, you
7:37
know, in theory, a beautiful thing. There was
7:39
connection, camaraderie, excitement around shared
7:43
passion, things of that nature. And so, you know,
7:47
by becoming more involved in this hobby. I saw
7:51
firsthand how easily it can slip from that passion
7:54
into just unrelenting pressure. You know, so
7:59
through my collecting journey, I know the rush
8:02
of the chase, the satisfaction of, you know,
8:05
the hit or the purchase, the way timing, scarcity,
8:08
and community validation can really just, you
8:11
know, light up your brain. But I also live the
8:13
other side, the creeping normalization of overspending,
8:18
the rationalizations, the feeling of just, feeling
8:21
like you have to be in control while quietly
8:24
feeling like, you know, you're really out of
8:26
alignment. You know, nothing catastrophic had
8:29
to happen for it to be a problem. It was subtle,
8:32
it was quiet, and that's exactly why it became
8:34
so dangerous. And what I realized is that modern
8:37
collecting isn't neutral anymore, right? It's
8:40
fast, it's frictionless, it's algorithm driven.
8:44
And it's just increasingly built around gambling
8:47
mechanics. You have speed, you have randomness,
8:50
you have social pressure, you have constant access.
8:53
And when those systems collide with things like
8:57
stress and identity and loneliness or financial
9:00
vulnerability, the outcomes can be really harmful,
9:04
even if they don't look so dramatic from the
9:07
outside. When I went looking for support, there
9:10
was a gap. traditional gambling resources didn't
9:15
really fully fit. I would go to GA meetings and
9:17
I would just feel out of place. You know, I had,
9:19
I had a gambling problem too, a severe one, but
9:22
you know, the two sort of were intertwined and
9:26
they kind of fed, fed each other in a way. And
9:30
so I'd sit down in a GA room, I'd start talking
9:32
about joining breaks and just buying box after
9:35
box. And we're not talking about $30, $50. you
9:39
know, boxes that you see in Walmart or Target,
9:41
we're talking about high -end hobby boxes that
9:46
cost anywhere from a couple hundred bucks to
9:48
upwards of $10 ,000, a pop, like we're talking
9:51
about a pop, right? And, you know, people buy
9:54
them in high volume. They go one after another
9:57
the same way a compulsive gambler would just
10:00
keep gambling, right? And so, you know, hobby
10:04
spaces don't want to talk about harm. And collectors
10:09
who are struggling, you know, feel isolated and
10:11
ashamed and unsure whether their experience,
10:14
you know, counted or matters. And so Collectors MD
10:19
really exists to fill that gap. It's not about
10:21
shaming the hobby or telling people they need
10:24
to quit collecting. It's about giving collectors
10:26
language, support and structure, whether that
10:29
means learning to collect more intentionally,
10:32
stepping away entirely. Or just finally being
10:36
honest about what something is costing them emotionally,
10:38
financially or relationally. Right. With their
10:41
with their relationships at its core. MD is about
10:45
one thing. It's just helping people to stay connected
10:47
to themselves while navigating a system that's
10:49
just designed to pull them out of alignment.
10:52
Yeah. Yeah. And so forgive my ignorance. I know,
10:55
Christina, you probably know a little bit more
10:57
about collecting than I do, but there was at
10:59
least like. 10 or 12 words that you just said
11:01
that I kind of know what it is, but I don't know
11:04
what it is. So, you know, and I'm sure I'm not
11:06
the only one listening right now who is very
11:08
curious about this, especially like maybe some
11:10
of these parents out there that have young kids.
11:12
Cause so I guess let's start with, you know,
11:16
you were mentioned that it's like fast pace and
11:18
high pressure. So just, you know, explain to
11:22
us, like we're five years old, like what exactly
11:24
does that mean? Like, like what, what are, so
11:27
people are trading like on the internet. I know
11:29
I sound ignorant and stupid right now. I just
11:31
don't, I've never. I'm going to come in with
11:33
my thought and see if it kind of lines up, but
11:35
like the pressure of like a bid or, you know,
11:39
only having so much time to get that bid, make
11:42
sure you get the right amount of money in the
11:43
bid for whatever the, the box or that you're
11:46
doing that. That was my thought, but I'd love
11:48
to hear that explanation to see if I'm even on
11:50
the same. Yeah. Like what's a bid. What's a box,
11:52
like a box of what, a box of cards or a box.
11:55
okay okay yeah i'm gonna take a step back um
11:58
and talk about breaking because that's where
12:00
this is all uh sort of happening it's where the
12:05
a lot of the problems a lot of the harm is taking
12:08
place and so breaking in layman's terms is when
12:11
people um an individual or you know a card shop
12:16
opens sealed boxes of trading cards we're talking
12:20
about You know, anything from sports cards to
12:22
TCG, which includes like Pokemon and Magic the
12:25
Gathering and Yu -Gi -Oh! And then there's, you
12:29
know, franchises that have trading cards now.
12:33
Think Disney, Marvel. I mean, SpongeBob has a
12:37
product of its own now that's become incredibly
12:39
popular. And so these individuals are basically
12:42
opening up these high -end, expensive sealed
12:45
boxes live on a stream. and then selling spots
12:49
to viewers ahead of time. So instead of buying
12:54
an entire box by yourself because it can be so
12:56
incredibly expensive, you're basically buying
12:59
a piece of it. And it's usually tied to something
13:02
like a team or a player or a random slot. And
13:05
when the cards get opened, when the box gets
13:09
opened on camera, whatever hits from your spot
13:12
belong to you or assigned to you, the breaker
13:15
then sends them to you. Oh, okay. Let's say you
13:19
buy the Knicks or you buy a random team in a
13:22
break and you get assigned the Knicks, right?
13:24
The New York Knicks. You're only going to get
13:26
Knicks cards from that particular box. If nothing
13:30
good comes out for your team, if there are no
13:32
Knicks cards at all, you still paid, but you
13:36
don't get anything back. If a big card does get
13:39
hit, it feels like a huge win, right? And so
13:41
that's why people compare breaking to gambling.
13:45
It's one in the same. I mean, that literally
13:47
is gambling from what you're telling me. Well,
13:50
the definition of gambling is when a person stakes
13:53
something of value on the outcome of an event
13:57
or a thing and with the hope of winning something,
14:00
right? So when we look at the definition, that's
14:02
exactly what it is. You know, the consideration,
14:05
right? What you're putting up for to get something
14:08
of value, right? The chance, the chance of getting
14:11
something valuable. Right. And then the prize.
14:14
Exactly. Yeah, you're paying for uncertainty.
14:17
The excitement is all in the reveal and the outcome
14:20
is completely out of your control. It's fast
14:23
paced. It's social. It can feel harmless because
14:26
it's, you know, really disguised as this nostalgic
14:29
childhood hobby. But it can also, you know, spiral
14:33
out of hand very, very quickly, especially because
14:35
it's designed to keep people engaged and just
14:38
chasing the next hit. Christina, you brought
14:41
up the whole concept of auctions. We're talking
14:44
about eBay. There are a handful of other platforms
14:48
that utilize the auction style transactions to
14:52
purchase a product. Now, a lot of these live
14:54
streaming platforms have adopted the auction
14:57
style. So when a breaker or an individual is
15:02
filling a break, they're usually selling the
15:05
teams at auction. So you have all of the teams
15:09
on the board. Hoping you get one of the better
15:13
teams for, you know, the respective products.
15:16
So, for instance, you know, today's latest Topps
15:20
Chrome Basketball 2025 -26 edition, the big chase
15:25
is Cooper Flagg because he's the hottest rookie
15:27
in the NBA right now. So you want to get the
15:30
Dallas Mavericks, right? And so in a random team
15:33
break, if the Dallas Mavericks are still available,
15:36
people are going to be paying a premium at auction.
15:41
For a random team or a chance to get the Maverick.
15:44
So it's like you're gambling before you even
15:47
get to the actual, you know, gamble. Right. And
15:51
so there's another thing that I want to touch
15:53
on real quick. And that's sudden death auction.
15:56
And that means that the clock doesn't reset after
15:59
somebody bids. And that's usually what happens
16:02
in a traditional auction. When the time runs
16:04
out, it's over. Right. Instantly. That creates
16:07
this constant fear that any pause. means you're
16:11
going to lose. There's no breathing room. There's
16:13
no recalibration. There's no moment to, you know,
16:15
sort of step back and ask if the bid, you know,
16:19
still makes sense or if it aligns with your purchasing,
16:21
you know, decisions. And so this triggers a panic
16:25
response, a panic response, right? Not a buying
16:28
decision. The brain shifts from like a valuation
16:31
to complete survival mode. It's like bid now
16:34
or it's gone forever. And so that urgency just
16:37
overwhelms boundaries that might exist in much
16:41
calmer environments. Right. And then they also
16:45
kind of punish restraint. Right. Waiting, thinking
16:48
or trying to stay disciplined actually increases
16:50
the chances that you lose. So the system rewards
16:54
impulsivity and really just like penalizes intention.
16:59
And so over time, this kind of. it trains people
17:03
it conditions them to act faster and just think
17:06
less so you mentioned that you know you grew
17:10
up collecting so like growing up collecting like
17:13
this was not a thing you go to card shows right
17:16
and you just like like but so when this started
17:21
who started it like is this independent people
17:24
that are just buying something or is it now like
17:27
companies that are that are organizing these
17:30
these streams That's a great question. And it's
17:33
something that comes up a lot. People are like,
17:35
how did breaking come about? Honestly, I think
17:38
I don't know exactly who started it. I can't
17:40
tell you who the founding father was of break
17:45
culture or the pioneer. But it started out as
17:49
like a concept, right? You have these expensive
17:52
boxes. And this was probably around, I would
17:55
say like 2009, maybe early like 2010s. Where,
18:01
you know, you have these expensive boxes at the
18:03
time people were chasing, like, you know, rookie
18:05
LeBron James or maybe Kobe Bryant or, you know,
18:08
some of the players that were relevant and sought
18:12
after them. And so they just, you know, decided
18:15
like, hey, what if we came up with this concept
18:19
where people can share a box and buy into a portion
18:23
of it as opposed to having to buy the entire
18:25
box? Somebody came up with the idea. It was.
18:29
increasingly popular i would say over the span
18:31
of a decade and then like i said before when
18:33
the pandemic hit that was really when breaking
18:37
organically just caught steam and became again
18:41
a phenomenon and so these apps capitalized on
18:45
that momentum and so Whatnot was formed Fanatics
18:50
got involved they bought tops they um entered
18:55
sort of the hobby space i mean they were already
18:58
into collectibles it just sort of made sense
19:01
for them um from a business standpoint now there's
19:04
Fanatics Live which is a dedicated live streaming
19:07
platform just for card breaks there are a handful
19:10
of others eBay has one now it's called eBay Live
19:13
so it's quite literally everywhere uh but it
19:17
really happened you know organically i think
19:20
you know because of the pandemic and now it's
19:23
a mainstay it's it's the way people you know
19:26
purchase cards these days. Yeah. And I think
19:30
it's interesting before we jump on, before we
19:32
jumped on to record, we were kind of talking
19:34
about podcasts and you had mentioned Brian Hatch,
19:37
which is a good friend of mine. And it's interesting
19:39
because he did an episode where he talks about
19:43
what he considers a relapse because of his card
19:47
buying and very similar kind of what you were
19:50
talking about and how he kind of really connected
19:53
that with his own. recovery from gambling and
19:56
that behavior. And then you were talking about
20:00
how it correlated, right, with your own gambling
20:03
behavior. And of course, this is, it might look
20:06
like a different behavior, but it's still the
20:08
same kind of, it belongs in the same circle.
20:10
And it's interesting how just compulsion in general
20:13
sometimes can belong in the same circle. Like
20:15
I get people who reach out to me, not necessarily
20:17
for, because I work mainly in the women. you
20:20
know, with women in this space, like other things
20:23
like jewelry and very, very similar where they
20:27
spend so much time and money, like even bath
20:30
bombs. I had somebody reach out to me and I'm
20:31
not comparing what you're talking about to bath
20:33
bombs. I'm just comparing kind of the compulsiveness
20:36
of like how things can in collecting. And so
20:40
they would do these auctions of these bath bombs
20:42
and you would dissolve the bath bomb. And there
20:44
could be, I know Adam's like, what? There could
20:48
be the potential. of a real jewelry piece like
20:53
a real like uh sapphire ring in the thing so
20:57
it's like you but this this particular woman
21:00
who reached out she had spent thousands of dollars
21:02
trying to get like it's mostly costume jewelry
21:06
but then you get like a really real gemstone
21:08
ring right and but you but she was on like tech
21:13
talk and Facebook forums, and she was spending
21:17
her paycheck on the compulsiveness of this thing.
21:21
And she was like, I don't fit in anywhere. I
21:23
don't know where to go. That's why I'm reaching
21:25
out to you. And it just really hit me that when
21:29
you said you came into this space, because I
21:30
imagine just hobby stuff in general always kind
21:34
of feels safe. Oh, that's a hobby, right? Or
21:38
that's something. And so it's like when you go
21:40
and the hobby turns into harm. not being able
21:44
to find spaces that meet those needs is a very
21:48
real thing. Yeah, Christina, you're absolutely
21:54
on point, right? People love the element of excitement
21:57
and chance because it taps into something very
22:00
human, right? We're talking about anticipation
22:02
and possibility and, you know, this brief escape
22:06
from reality, from certainty, right? And so that
22:10
moment before the outcome lands is is just really
22:14
powerful and it's where the hope and the potential
22:18
and the anticipation really you know thrive and
22:22
um you know i think it's like the imagination
22:24
sort of filling the gap in a way and so the unknown
22:28
creates this emotional lift even if the result
22:33
result itself is is smaller fleeting right our
22:36
brains are just wired to respond to this you
22:39
know maybe Right. The possibility that something
22:44
special could happen that this time could be
22:46
different. Right. And so I think excitement and
22:49
chance also kind of compress time. They pull
22:53
us fully into the moment, you know, and it kind
22:57
of dulls some of the harder parts of life like
23:00
stress or boredom or doubt or depression or,
23:04
you know, loneliness. Right. And for a few seconds,
23:09
like the world narrows to. whatever outcome you're
23:13
seeking. And that focus can feel like relief,
23:16
which is why I think it's so compelling and why
23:19
it shows up in so many different places, right?
23:22
The games and the sports and the entertainment
23:24
and the collecting and the bath bombs. I mean,
23:27
the key distinction isn't whether excitement
23:29
and chance are, you know, inherently good or
23:33
bad. It's how often they're used, how fast they
23:37
repeat and whether they're supported by somebody's
23:40
boundaries. Right. Without friction or the opportunity
23:44
to take a step back, pause and reflect, take
23:47
personal inventory. What starts as fun can can
23:50
very quickly shift into something that just runs
23:55
on compulsion instead of like real choice, real
23:58
intention. You know, people don't love chance
24:00
because they want to lose control. They love
24:03
it because it's just it offers like that that
24:06
possibility, that excitement. And, you know,
24:09
I think the work is just making sure, you know,
24:14
people are aware of this. Right. So that they
24:17
don't quietly become dependent on it because
24:20
it can happen without you even realizing. And
24:23
that's a huge part of this. A lot of these activities
24:26
like something as, you know, something as small
24:31
as buying a bath bomb on TikTok can very quickly
24:35
sort of manifest into. a real addiction. And
24:40
I'm not saying that applies to every single person,
24:42
but there are a lot of people that, you know,
24:46
they find themselves in a situation where they
24:50
didn't think that they were addicted or that
24:52
they have had an addictive personality. And next
24:54
thing they knew, all their savings is gone. Their
24:58
lives are being compromised. You know, divorce
25:01
is on the table. They're having to sell their
25:03
belongings or their homes. They're looking at
25:05
bankruptcy. These are real life stories that
25:07
we see every single week in our peer support
25:09
meetings over cardboard, right? It's one thing
25:12
to lose yourself in something like gambling,
25:16
which has been around forever, where like, you
25:18
know, you hear the story is as old as time. Somebody,
25:21
you know, goes on tilt and throws away everything
25:23
on, you know, blackjack or through sports betting.
25:28
But like, we're talking about opening up packs
25:31
of Pokemon cards, right? Things that children.
25:35
are involved with. And that in itself creates
25:39
a sense of guilt and shame. People have a really
25:42
hard time admitting they have a problem with
25:44
something like that because they don't want to
25:47
look in the mirror and say, wow, I became addicted
25:51
to a toy, right? So it's all about just spreading
25:55
positive awareness, letting people know that
25:57
there are other people out there just like you
26:00
who are experiencing these very problems. And
26:04
rather than struggling alone in isolation, you
26:08
can heal in community. And so that's why this
26:11
space is so important. Yeah, we know all about
26:14
that. Yeah, we do. So I want to talk about the
26:18
warning signs that you've observed in your time.
26:22
But also, I want to go back. You alluded to it.
26:26
If you don't mind, tell us a little bit about...
26:29
your experience both with this and with your
26:32
gambling and you said that they kind of intersected
26:34
and at what point did you realize oh like this
26:37
this might be an actual problem yeah it was around
26:41
um the fall of 2022 where right before i got
26:47
married i got married in november of 2022 actually
26:50
on my birthday um so Quick sidebar, I no longer
26:54
get to celebrate my birthday. It's been replaced
26:55
by my anniversary. She ensured that you would
26:58
never forget the anniversary. That's exactly
27:00
right. Smart lady. Brilliant. Anyway, around
27:07
that time, I was living life in the fast lane.
27:10
I was gambling. I was winning. I had a ton of
27:16
money that I was making on the side from. playing
27:20
live blackjack. And, you know, I was also doing
27:25
well in my career. So I felt this sense of entitlement,
27:28
I felt like, you know, I had earned the right
27:32
to buy nice things and shower myself with gifts.
27:35
And, you know, given the fact that I've always
27:39
been kind of a compulsive person, in terms of,
27:44
you know, just becoming overly excited or overly
27:49
passionate about specific things. You know, at
27:52
one point in my 20s, I had over 500 pairs of
27:55
sneakers. No single person should ever own that
27:58
many sneakers. But I was so, you know, enthralled
28:01
by sneaker collecting, I just lost myself. And
28:05
so that was an issue in itself. But again, fast
28:07
forward to 2022, I was gambling, but I was also
28:11
joining these high -end breaks and buying. you
28:14
know, these expensive boxes for myself on live
28:17
streams and just sort of, it became a cycle where
28:22
I would buy into, let's say a $2 ,500 break.
28:26
I then feel like I needed to recoup that money,
28:28
whether I hit a card, work that or not. And so
28:31
I would hop onto live blackjack on one of the
28:34
apps, win the money back that way. And I wasn't
28:37
the type of gambler that would, you know, be
28:41
able to lose a couple hundred bucks and then
28:43
walk away anytime i started to lose i would double
28:46
down and it would just you know happen over and
28:51
over again where i put myself in these situations
28:53
where i'd run out of money and you know a particular
28:56
sitting i'd lose thousands of dollars upwards
28:59
of ten thousand dollars and there were times
29:02
where i would just keep going until everything
29:03
was just completely gone and you know i hit these
29:07
rock bottom moments throughout my uh you know,
29:10
the throes of my addiction where finally it came
29:14
to a halt and I realized that I had a serious
29:17
problem. It was actually a weekend in April of
29:20
2023 where my wife was on a bachelorette party
29:24
and I just went like balls to the wall, all out,
29:28
a 48 hour bender where I just was nonstop gambling.
29:32
And I lost more money than I had ever lost in
29:35
one particular sitting. we don't necessarily
29:37
like to talk about the amounts you know it's
29:39
kind of arbitrary everybody's financial situation
29:42
is different different amounts affect different
29:44
people but i could tell you it was a lot of money
29:46
and so i thought it was all over that that i
29:50
think it was like a friday morning at 6 a .m
29:52
where i had basically gambled away a last dollar
29:56
to my name i had extended into you know um uh
30:02
cash advances through credit cards and maxed
30:05
out credit cards just you know to try to um fuel
30:10
the cycle and it did not end well and so i called
30:14
my dad just in this like state of panic and um
30:17
he came scoop me up from my apartment in jersey
30:20
city where i was living at the time and i was
30:23
quite literally paralyzed to the recliner in
30:28
their living room for that entire weekend just
30:31
anticipating what I was going to tell my wife
30:33
when she got home from this trip that following
30:35
Monday. And it was hell. I was beside myself.
30:40
I didn't know what to do. And so at that point,
30:44
you know, my parents helped me in finding an
30:48
outpatient facility here in New Jersey called
30:51
Right Choice Recovery. And I got into that program.
30:54
I self -excluded. I stopped gambling. You know,
30:59
I started to slowly pick back the pieces. But
31:02
the reality is you can't self -exclude from collecting
31:07
or from buying, right? Unless somebody cuts you
31:09
off completely financially or you turn over your
31:12
finances to a loved one, right? And so I was
31:15
still buying the cards. I was still joining breaks
31:17
and I wasn't really getting better. It just seemed
31:21
like I was getting better because I was going
31:22
to this outpatient facility and going to GA meetings
31:27
and things of that nature. And so it really just
31:30
got to a point where I decided so many people
31:34
are being affected the same way that I am. I
31:36
need to create a space that I wish existed when
31:40
I was really at the lowest of my lows. And so
31:43
that's how Collectors MD was born. I'm just,
31:46
I'm smiling because, you know, the first three
31:48
quarters of that sentence is exactly how I felt
31:51
after, you know, once I entered recovery. So
31:53
that's awesome. Same. I wasn't seeing myself
31:56
in the rooms and I wasn't hearing, I wasn't seeing
32:00
women experiences in the room. So it was like
32:03
very much of, let me try and create a space where
32:07
I feel welcomed and where my story can be somebody
32:15
else's story. You know what I mean? Like, even
32:16
though. I think anybody who struggled with addiction,
32:19
we can all connect on this level of it's taken
32:23
over our life. It's rewired those pathways in
32:26
our brain to, to focus on the, the reward center,
32:30
everything like that. We can all focus on like
32:32
those types of things, but there are so many
32:34
individual parts of our story that sometimes
32:38
is more relatable to women or more relatable
32:41
to men or more relatable to somebody who's in
32:43
the collectible world. Right? Like, and so I
32:46
think. spaces that match our own experiences
32:49
are very very helpful along with just broadening
32:53
out and being curious about other people's experiences
32:55
as well just like this is a fascinating conversation
32:58
for me because like yeah i knew Hatch's story
33:01
and kind of what he struggled with but i don't
33:03
think i really understood it you know and kind
33:06
of the connectedness and the way that you're
33:07
explaining it really opens that up absolutely
33:12
Yeah, you brought up some really great points
33:14
there, Christina. And there is one other component
33:15
that I'd be remiss not to share where it really
33:19
came full circle for me. And so while I was working
33:24
on building Collectors MD, let's say about six
33:27
months ago, I went back to Right Choice Recovery
33:30
to connect with the owner, Rob Sackowitz. And
33:34
let him know what I was doing, really, you know,
33:36
just taking my addiction and sort of turning
33:38
it on its head to help other people. Really,
33:40
that's step 12 of the 12 -step program is paying
33:42
it forward and, you know, helping other people
33:46
who are suffering with compulsive gambling overcome
33:49
their addiction too. And so, you know, we were
33:53
talking about ways we could potentially collaborate.
33:56
And, you know, after meeting with him several
33:59
times, he was like, you know what? I'd really
34:01
love for you to... lead some group meetings here
34:03
if you're open to it. And so since September
34:06
of last year, I've been running two meetings,
34:09
Monday and Tuesday nights at Right Choice Recovery,
34:11
leading, you know, groups for around gambling
34:15
addiction. And so it's kind of like a full circle
34:17
moment going from being a client there to now,
34:20
you know, leading group meetings. And again,
34:22
it's just, I've dedicated my life, my career
34:26
to this journey, to this world where I just,
34:32
feel this unrelenting urgency to grow Collectors MD,
34:37
to help spread the message, not to, you know,
34:40
make money or, you know, gain followers or grow
34:45
like a company or a brand, but more so because
34:49
there are tens of thousands of people struggling
34:51
with this type of addiction that have zero idea
34:54
that real tools, resources, and support are available
34:59
for free. Yeah, so we're not people who bash
35:05
industry or whatever, but I'm curious where the
35:09
exploitation happens on this side of the collectibles
35:15
industry. Like, where are the things that really,
35:17
like, we can name the things on the gambling
35:19
side where it's obvious, right? So kind of give
35:23
us some ideas of what that looks like on the
35:26
collectible side and how they kind of compare.
35:30
You know, collecting, I was talking about this
35:33
before. Collecting used to be slow. You know,
35:35
you would save up. You would go to a local card
35:38
shop. You would trade cards or, you know, items
35:41
with your friends. And, you know, maybe you would
35:44
buy a card or two here and there. Today, collecting
35:48
happens online in real time with constant notifications,
35:52
instant payments, and live auctions running around
35:55
the clock, right? The hobby didn't. just move
35:59
online, it adopted the same mechanics used in
36:02
gambling, gaming, and social media. And so what
36:05
that means in plain terms is this. People are
36:08
no longer just collecting. They're chasing, they're
36:11
reacting, they're spending faster and more often
36:14
than they plan to. Sometimes without even realizing
36:17
how far it's gone until it's too late and real
36:20
damage has been done. And so, you know, Collectors MD
36:24
exists to say something very simple and very
36:26
important. collecting itself isn't the problem
36:29
it's the way the modern system is built so we
36:33
focus on three things the first thing is education
36:37
we want people to understand why the hobby feels
36:40
so you know hard to control now the speed and
36:43
the randomness and the you might win big this
36:45
time type of feeling and the constant 24 7 access
36:49
all these things push the brain into impulse
36:51
mode and once people start to understand that
36:54
the shame starts to lift and clarity really comes
36:58
back. The second is support. We run weekly peer
37:02
support meetings for collectors who feel stuck,
37:05
overwhelmed, or out of control. You know, some
37:08
people do want to stay in the hobby, but with
37:10
structure and boundaries. Others need distance
37:13
from it entirely. And so we make room for both
37:15
lanes, intentional collecting and abstinence.
37:18
Intentional collecting is basically our version
37:20
of harm reduction. And then third, accountability
37:23
and prevention. We work with platforms, shops,
37:26
and community leaders to talk about real guardrails,
37:29
things like, you know, age protections and moderation
37:31
and transparency and slowing systems down so
37:34
that fewer people are getting hurt in the first
37:37
place. And so the key idea is that, you know,
37:40
people shouldn't have to hit rock bottom to realize
37:43
something is off, something is wrong. So I want
37:46
to illustrate to you some of the stuff that is
37:49
going on in the hobby. And again, I say this,
37:53
I want to preface by saying Collectors MD, we're
37:56
not a watchdog organization. We're not here to
37:59
call out manufacturers, platforms, individuals,
38:02
breakers who are doing things maliciously or
38:06
are preying on collectors or using exploitative
38:10
messaging. However, it is important to address
38:14
some of these things. So again, as part of that
38:16
educating, that awareness, people have a better
38:19
idea, a better sense of what's really going on
38:22
behind the scenes. And so there are a few platforms
38:25
and manufacturers that really take a page out
38:31
of the playbook of traditional gambling. And
38:34
so I'm not going to say the platform that sent
38:38
this message out to people. For those in the
38:41
hobby, in the collecting world, they might be
38:43
able to connect the dots. But I'm just going
38:45
to read you a marketing message that I received
38:48
from one of these hobby platforms. Hey, it's
38:54
the guy that does all the emails at said platform.
38:57
You probably think this is some automated email
39:00
trying to get you to come back and rip a slab
39:03
pack, huh? Well, you're absolutely right. Except
39:05
I wrote this email myself with a bit of help
39:08
from ChatGPT. I wanted to give you a 25 % discount
39:11
to get you back into the action. Specifically
39:14
use the word action. The code will only work
39:17
on gold, ruby, emerald, diamond, or legendary
39:20
packs. It would be really cool if you came back
39:22
and got a pack so that I can tell my boss I'm
39:25
doing a good job. If you don't want to, it's
39:27
all good. I'll start updating my resume now.
39:29
Click here to rip a pack. Oh, wow. I mean, that
39:32
just makes me so... Like manipulation. Angry.
39:35
Oh, my God. I thought it was like... tongue in
39:38
cheek and somebody you know uh signed off on
39:41
that and was like yeah that's totally totally
39:42
fine totally kosher to send out to our entire
39:45
you know email listserv um are there any age
39:50
regulations though like no because i mean i can
39:54
see a kid reading that and like oh my gosh this
39:56
person's gonna lose their job if i don't do this
39:59
or whatever and so like like most of us can read
40:02
that for what it is right Yeah. I'm sorry. Can
40:07
we just take a moment to pause? Because I think
40:09
sharing my screen here would be monumental. Like,
40:12
I really think it would help paint this picture.
40:14
I literally don't think we can. Can we? There's
40:16
a share button on the bottom. Try. Try it. Click
40:19
it and see what it, see what it, yeah, because
40:22
there is a share button. So. There we go. Oh,
40:24
look at that. There we go. Look at that. He's
40:26
teaching us something here. Yeah, go ahead. This
40:29
is a first on Evive Live. Here we go. Yeah, it
40:31
is. So it's Big Justice and AJ. AJ and Big Justice.
40:36
Oh, I hate these guys so much. They are brand
40:41
ambassadors for the brand I was talking about.
40:43
And at this point, I'm just going to go ahead
40:45
and show you. But yeah, they're exploiting the
40:50
child to promote this product. I mean, it's all
40:56
over. You can see here, here. I'll just show
41:00
the most recent one. to tell us which one is
41:08
the best. First Emerald Pack, here we go. Patrick
41:16
Bell with the red shiver. PSA 10. We got him
41:19
a Holmes right from the start. I'm not even joking.
41:21
This is a chase card. This was at the very top,
41:25
Dad. Wow. Oh, that's awesome. Color match. That
41:31
is a good first pack. One more Emerald. from
41:45
the elite series is that variation wow that is
41:51
sick rookie patrick mahomes and now the diamond
42:23
I mean, at least he's a good actor, I guess.
42:27
It feels scripted. Oh, yeah, I mean, it's...
42:31
So that happens, people can open virtual packs?
42:38
Yeah. You can get 20 % off your first part of
42:43
the Slap Pack purchase right now on Arena Club
42:45
by visiting arenaclub .com forward slash boom
42:48
and entering the code boom at checkout. Arena
42:50
Club gets a big boom! Why do I feel like I need
42:57
a shower? Like, that just felt gross. And that's
43:01
running rampant across the hobby. So that is
43:04
like a company then. So somebody's gone from...
43:09
Here's the saddest part about, and I'm only going
43:11
to call out Arena Club because they're, you know,
43:15
they're a huge part of the problem. I grew up
43:19
a diehard Yankee fan and Derek Jeter is one of
43:23
my favorite athletes of all time. Honestly, like
43:27
an idol to me. He is one of the co -owners of
43:31
Arena Club. And when that news came out, it really
43:35
just broke my heart because It made me realize
43:37
that this is so much bigger than anybody, you
43:41
know, ever fathomed it would become, right? Because
43:44
you have athletes and celebrities that are endorsing
43:47
this type of behavior without taking a moment
43:49
to pause and think like, I have a massive platform
43:52
and influence. Why don't I leverage that to help
43:55
people who really, you know, could use help?
44:00
You see the same thing with the traditional gambling
44:01
ads, all the celebrities endorsing these casinos.
44:05
The one caveat, though, is that with traditional
44:08
gambling, there's regulation and there's oversight.
44:11
And it's a part of the corporate responsibility
44:14
of these casinos and sportsbooks to provide tools
44:17
and resources, whether they want to or not, to
44:20
organizations or, you know, platforms like 800
44:24
Gambler and, you know, basically promote responsible
44:28
gambling. Right. That does not exist in. the
44:33
hobby environment whatsoever. There's zero regulation,
44:36
there's zero oversight, there's zero age gates,
44:38
there's zero guardrails. Anybody can just log
44:41
in, create an account, and just, you know, go
44:45
crazy on these repacks or joining breaks or whatever,
44:48
you know, whatever it is. And so kids are being
44:51
groomed and conditioned at such a young age that
44:54
this type of behavior is the norm, is socially
44:57
acceptable. I mean, you heard the kids say, like,
44:59
if Drake May wins the Super Bowl, This is a big
45:02
card. Now, I want to add one more note here.
45:05
When I first caught wind that they were creating
45:09
these ads, this was almost a year ago when I
45:11
first started Collectors MD, they were including
45:14
the value of the cards at the bottom of the screen.
45:18
So he'd like hit that card and it would say like,
45:21
you know, $500. And they had this ticker that
45:25
would show how much money they were up or down
45:27
based on their investment. And I left a comment
45:30
from the Collectors MD account saying something
45:33
along the lines of this is not okay. This is
45:35
conditioning children to think gambling is acceptable,
45:38
yada, yada. They stopped. I think that comment
45:42
got a couple hundred likes, a bunch of people
45:45
just supporting, endorsing the message. They
45:48
stopped doing it. And then on the following video
45:51
where they took that out, I commented again and
45:54
I said something along the lines of, you know,
45:57
glad to see that. this has been adjusted, but
46:00
still the message here is an issue. Anyway, AJ
46:03
and big justice and arena club liked the comments.
46:06
So, you know, I'm not going to sit here and say
46:08
that we were the reason why they stopped doing
46:12
that, but pretty, pretty. Yeah. It didn't hurt.
46:15
Yeah. We, I mean, I've, I have so many more questions,
46:21
but you know, we're, we're heading towards the
46:23
end here. Like a couple of like rapid fire things
46:27
real quick. Like, So where does the money go?
46:31
If, if I, if I don't get my team pulled, that
46:35
money just goes to the person who's running the
46:37
break. Yep. And, and so there's no like legalities
46:43
or they're not paying to, I mean, so Whatnot
46:45
requires, uh, the dealer, the, the breaker to
46:49
ship anything purchased. So a label is automatically
46:53
generated. If you don't hit any cards at all,
46:55
what they'll usually do. And I've seen, cases
46:59
where a completely empty package just shows up
47:02
at the door um but they'll take stacks of base
47:05
cards cards that are worthless that get thrown
47:07
in the garbage or donated and they just send
47:09
them to the individual so kind of a slap in the
47:12
face actually it's like it's like going on full
47:14
tilt losing a ton of money and then two weeks
47:17
later something shows up at your door to remind
47:19
you about it and then The other thing I had written
47:23
down was like, as far as like content creators,
47:26
like, like, like right now in gambling space,
47:28
like we have these YouTubers who, you know, have
47:30
all these sponsorships from the casinos and they're
47:32
not using their real money. Is that happening
47:35
in, in the hobby side of things where people
47:37
are starting to, you know, cause I know that
47:39
there's all these and I'm going to sound like
47:41
an old man, but like, you know, the discords
47:43
and the, and the things, you know, the people
47:45
are on Twitch and it's just them watching them
47:48
do other things, watching other people. You know
47:51
what I mean? Like, it's it's like you couldn't
47:54
imagine it's worse it's honestly worse than than
47:58
the gambling industry in terms of uh these influencers
48:01
that are opening boxes on stream this is just
48:04
like an opportunity for the manufacturers and
48:07
the platforms to get free ads right they send
48:10
them there's there's uh conspiracies that they
48:13
get at loaded boxes they open them up on screen
48:16
They hit the big card, and then the average collector
48:18
is seeing that and saying, wow, I want to hit
48:20
that card. So, yeah, it's a major problem, and
48:24
it's been going on for years. There are a lot
48:28
of watchdog creators, influencers that call out
48:32
this type of behavior all the time, but it's
48:36
not nearly as big in terms of the scale, the
48:40
number of people watching and following. compared
48:44
to like the number of individuals that are consuming
48:46
the content that's being called out. Yeah, it's
48:50
interesting because I was just filming a podcast
48:52
the other day and this kind of even reminds me
48:56
of what she was talking about on the social casino
48:59
side where she could go on these social platforms
49:02
like TikTok and Clapper and they would have these
49:05
live gambling sessions where you can... throw
49:10
money and, you know, they can gamble your number
49:12
or whatever, whatever the behavior is, or even
49:15
like pull tabs or like, and it's just so interesting
49:18
how social media has now, from what you're talking
49:22
about, from what she was talking about, from
49:24
what we see from influencers, just how much social
49:27
media is influencing. All of these different
49:30
spaces and really contributing to the harm and
49:33
the fact that there is no real regulation, there
49:36
is no like when we're talking about kids being,
49:39
you know, we know that in gaming kids are highly
49:42
shown gambling behaviors, skins in the game,
49:47
those types of things. And I certainly don't
49:48
want to talk about things I don't really know
49:49
that much about. But it's just really, really
49:52
interesting how even even in this space or all
49:55
these different spaces where social media really.
49:59
really impacts and really creates the space to
50:02
to experience more harm can we talk about that
50:05
for a second and then we'll we'll close out yeah
50:08
it's it's a great point i'm kids are so impressionable
50:12
and they're like sponges right they consume any
50:16
and everything around them and so when you have
50:18
these environments that you know on the surface
50:21
are are painted to seem normal like this is just
50:27
normal child behavior the biggest problem is
50:31
that the parents don't see it and i think the
50:35
industry kind of uses the whole childhood nostalgia
50:38
component to their advantage right because they
50:41
know that most parents are looking the other
50:44
way they're like oh yeah my kids just ripping
50:45
pokemon cards oh he's selling cards at a card
50:49
show or online he's learning how to you know
50:52
transact he's learning how to do business at
50:55
a young age it's actually a good thing When in
50:57
reality, they're just being conditioned through
50:59
influence, through social media, that this is
51:03
completely acceptable. Yeah, without any conversation
51:07
around the potential harms. And that's the thing,
51:10
too. It's like the kids are so much more technology
51:12
advanced. Like the kids coming up now just know
51:16
so much more. I mean, I was waiting for Adam
51:18
to say the Facebook. You know, these kids go
51:20
to the Facebook. Because that's, you know, that's
51:23
our age. It's just interesting how much we have
51:28
to stay ahead of that for the generations to
51:30
come and to be more aware of it. And it's just
51:33
like, and I know this sounds super Debbie Downer,
51:36
but it's like, what else can we fucking ruin,
51:39
right? Like, we're ruining social media. We're
51:43
ruining trading cards and collecting. Like, ah,
51:47
man, it's just so frustrating. What's the common
51:50
denominator, Adam? Yeah, it's this. It's this
51:53
and social media, right? It's just greed. Like
51:56
Derek Jeter, you really need to be the owner
51:59
of that. Right. I mean, oh, it's so, it's so,
52:03
it's so sad, but it brings me, let's, let's,
52:06
let's try to end on a high note. Let's come in,
52:08
let's come into the end. And Alyx, give us, give
52:10
us what gives, what gives, what gives you hope?
52:13
I want to show you, I want to show you one more
52:15
thing and maybe you can squeeze this in with
52:17
the email that I sent to Arena Club. And I apologize
52:19
if this is getting like choppy or confusing.
52:22
But again, I have to share this. This is really
52:25
important because it's another exploitative marketing
52:29
email that was sent out to customers around October.
52:33
We can't get in trouble for this, right? For
52:35
like showing all this stuff? No. Because I'm
52:40
not showing the name of the provider, but I'll
52:44
just say that they are the biggest in terms of...
52:50
having equity in the industry uh so this is the
52:54
email i personally received mind you i i stopped
52:57
buying on this platform you know a long time
53:00
ago i can't even access this account that they
53:02
sent this email to because i you know um i either
53:07
deleted it or i asked them to you know ban me
53:09
or whatever the case may be anyway it says you've
53:11
earned this an exclusive offer built for our
53:14
top collectors spend rip get rewarded from wednesday
53:18
october 22nd through Saturday, October 25th.
53:21
Keep in mind that's only three days. Spend at
53:24
least $10 ,000 on live breaks and you'll receive
53:26
$1 ,000 in rewards. That's for doing what you
53:30
already love. No opt -in needed, no hoops to
53:32
jump through. How it works, make purchases or
53:34
rips totaling $10 ,000 or more during the promotion
53:36
period. Check your order history to track your
53:39
progress. Receive your $1 ,000 reward code via
53:42
email on Monday, October 27th. Important. This
53:45
offer is exclusive to you as a recipient of this
53:47
email and is not transferable. All purchases
53:50
made during the promotional period will count
53:51
towards the offer. Orders made before or after
53:53
the promotional window will not count. So when
53:55
I first saw this and I saw the important, I'm
53:58
thinking to myself, please be a disclaimer. Please
54:00
be a disclaimer. Please be like a warning sign
54:02
or something. And of course it's not. Anyway,
54:04
who in their right mind is spending $10 ,000
54:07
on live breaks in three days? You know, Adam,
54:10
you laughed, but this is the norm. There are
54:12
people that spend upwards of $50 ,000 a night
54:15
on Whatnot. It just takes me back to the days
54:20
of like spending hundreds and hundreds and thousands
54:23
of dollars at a casino just to get a free air
54:25
fryer. Like that you could have gone to Walmart
54:28
and bought for 40 bucks. Like that's how that
54:31
math is math into me, right? The company that
54:33
sent that email also owns a casino and sports
54:36
book. So to my knowledge, what they did was.
54:40
they tapped into that marketing team and just
54:42
repurposed it right what's so funny to me too
54:47
is that everything that we've talked about today
54:49
the person then has to like resell that card
54:51
right it's not like they're winning money right
54:54
it's way more complicated than that it's yes
54:56
you're right it's not liquid at all um but yes
54:59
you the whole process is first you have to hit
55:02
the card and and we're talking about layers and
55:04
layers and gambling somebody recently called
55:05
it gambling inception uh which i really liked
55:08
because there's so many layers to actually finally
55:11
getting the card but then you get it and forget
55:14
about the card you hit it has to be in good condition
55:17
because if it's not in good condition it's not
55:20
going to grade well and if it doesn't grade well
55:21
you're not going to maximize your return on it
55:24
and the whole grading process takes It takes
55:27
weeks, sometimes months to get the card back
55:29
from PSA or Beckett or wherever. And then once
55:32
you finally do get it back, you now have to sell
55:36
it on a platform, whether it be eBay or Goldin
55:40
or Heritage or all these different auction houses,
55:43
or you go to a card show. But yes, it's a very,
55:47
very complicated process. And no, it is not liquid.
55:50
And what I always say is if you're in the hobby,
55:53
because you think it's an opportunity for you
55:56
to make money or win money, find another hobby.
55:59
Card collecting should be for people who are
56:03
passionate about card collecting, who enjoy the
56:06
cards, who enjoy the players, who enjoy, you
56:08
know, whatever category it is, if it's Pokemon
56:11
or Magic the Gathering, whatever it is. If you're
56:14
just in it because you think a Drake May rookie
56:16
card is going to sell better after they win the
56:18
Super Bowl on Sunday, find another hobby. knock
56:23
on wood yeah um yeah no Alyx this has been amazing
56:28
but really quick you just gotta tell us you got
56:30
we gotta end on a high note like based on the
56:32
last year of you building Collectors MD from
56:36
the ground up what are some things in the space
56:38
that gives you hope what gives me hope is the
56:42
support and partnerships that we've created within
56:47
the hobby not just on the recovery side you know
56:50
we've partnered with 800-GAMBLER and PGCC and
56:53
of course Evive and Gamban and open recovery
56:55
all these you know uh treatment centers and and
56:58
organizations that support us on the recovery
57:00
side within the traditional gambling space that's
57:03
incredible and i'm so grateful for that but within
57:05
the hobby we have a handful dozens of brands
57:09
that endorse our message And so we started a
57:13
movement, an initiative called Rip Responsibly.
57:15
And through Rip Responsibly, we're basically
57:18
spreading awareness around why it's important
57:21
to pause before you spend. Rip Responsibly, collect
57:25
responsibly, collect with intention, not compulsion.
57:28
These are all things that, mantras that we use.
57:30
And we've had some of the biggest brands in the
57:32
hobby. back it and buy into what we're building.
57:37
And so we actually have a whole program where
57:39
you could buy co -branded mats with your hobby
57:42
logo along with Collectors MD with the
57:45
#RipResponsibly. Those have been rolling out across
57:48
the hobby ecosystem. And my goal, my hope is
57:52
that as more and more hobby brands get behind
57:55
this and push this message forward, it will spread
57:58
like wildfire and it'll become a standard instead
58:01
of an option. Love that. Yeah. Love it. Thank
58:05
you so much. You really taught me a lot and I
58:08
really appreciate this conversation. Yeah, this
58:10
was great. Thanks so much for having me on. Any
58:12
opportunity to spread the message and just reach
58:15
more people that we can help, that's what this
58:17
is all about. Absolutely. Great. Thank you. All
58:20
right, Alyx. Thanks a lot. Thanks for being on
58:22
Evive Live. Thanks for having me.