Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / 3 Ways to Strengthen Your Marriage (even during a season of loss) | a timely COVID-19 conversation with Sarah Walton

Transcript

3 Ways to Strengthen Your Marriage (even during a season of loss) | a timely COVID-19 conversation with Sarah Walton · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Amy Wicks, and I love to talk about the gospel message your heart was created to hear.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: All things Enneagram and helping you be confident that you are the best mom for your kids.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a mountain mama who somehow ended up on a cul-de-sac in the Medwest.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: I was alone and without family or community.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: But the Lord, He didn't let me stay there.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: He helped me turn my broken-hearted moment into a wholehearted decision to get intentional with my faith, my marriage, and my kids.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: I share broken-hearted perspective with story, but with wholehearted purpose and plans so you can live a life full of confidence and abundance.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Think of this podcast as your on-the-go mom pal, mixed with a little bit of Enneagram coaching.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: So get to that pile of laundry or hit the treadmill or load up the kids in the car for that grocery run.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: And be ready to be encouraged and challenged while you listen.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: This is the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Hey friends, I'm so glad you're here today.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: This month we're focusing on wholehearted growth, even in the midst of the storm.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: I do believe that God is still at work in each of us as we navigate the unknowns, and I believe the Lord wants to deepen our faith in him in the midst of this crisis.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Even though if you're a lot like me and you're so over all of this and you just want normal again.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: It is hard.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: And as much as I don't like hard things, I know for a fact in these hard seasons, I experience the most growth.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: And sure, I do grow and can grow in times of plenty.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: But it is in the seasons of want the days that I desperately have to cling to him to get through.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's then that I find that my favorites grow deeper.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: As I talk to my friends near and far, I've heard a variety of stories about how they see the Lord used in the season.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: And for some, this time it's had the most impact on their marriage.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: For a few, it's really strengthened their relationship.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: But for others, what was already weak and difficult feels even harder.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Jeff and Sarah Walton are familiar with navigating really tough seasons of loss, hardship, and difficult health diagnosis.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Their new book releases in just a week, I think, or two.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: But together through the storms, biblical encouragement for your marriage when life hurts.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it is a timely word for many of us.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, they wrote it and planned its release way before COVID-19.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Sarah is on the podcast today to give us wisdom based on her experience and her story to reconnect with God and your spouse as we weather this stormy season.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: We are gonna learn how they apply the book of Job as they study and they share their stories about marriage.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: As well as three ideas that all of us that are married can apply to our lives today.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: Now, because we've been thrown into such a unique season, I wanted to highlight a few resources which I normally offer in the summer months.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: Which those summer months are gonna be here soon.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I promise I have some more videos for those months as well.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I revamped them for our quarantine weeks, and I'm using it myself for our daily routine.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: It really helps me.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: It can be a wonderful time to connect with your kids, but we need a little bit of help because we're not so used to like not having any activity of 50 minutes to keep us going.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: But it's a wonderful time to remind be reminded about what matters most.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: You can find these resources one of two ways, either here in the show notes.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: You can get the link to the quarantine daily routine, the 50 device report investors, and the seven days around the world.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Or you can even check out my Instagram profile where you can find all the links at Simply Wholehearted.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to have you follow me there and even send a direct message just to let me know how the content is encouraging you during this time.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Let's dive right into this conversation with Sarah Walton.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, um, we're in Chicago.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: So we are we've been out of school for um, gosh, what is it, three weeks now, I think.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um so you know, we're hanging in there, we're adjusting, we're trying to figure it out.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: We're my husband's actually been out of work since November.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: So that's not new.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so he's been home, but the kids just got out of school, and we're trying to figure that out.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: We have four kids, and we're trying to use all the e-learning is online.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we have one computer, and then my husband, Jeff, he's trying to use his for job searching.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like trying to I'm like trying to have this kid on the computer and tell the others, no, you're not gonna do that now.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta do this.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so and trying not to go crazy because I think I think it just this week I realized I was feeling kind of like that heaviness set in.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it I'm I realized how much I just miss people.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's what I feel I think I figured out is going on now.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: I just miss hugging people and face to face, and you know, so this is so unprecedented.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I just I don't think we have a framework for this.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do we do with not seeing people, not leaving our houses?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's just so strange.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: It really I don't know.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then we're trying to help our kids through it too.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: So you're trying to figure out yourself while trying to help not, you know, kind of handle their anxieties and help them figure out what to do with those and stuff.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: So it's been interesting to say the least.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: How about you guys?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's no guidebook on this, there's no handbook, there's no 101 how to deal with a pandemic in America and no school and everybody stuck at home.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's not, it's no fun.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's not, and it's definitely easy to fear.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's just there's all different levels to this that we're trying to figure out.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it is the timing.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: My husband and I were just talking about the timing of our book coming now is so like it gives me chills every time I think about it.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: And not only the timing of it, but the fact that we wrote it through Job, and that this is all of a sudden a time where people are facing loss of so much.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, even the fear of losing family members and friends, and I mean, there's just it it's like eerie.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: It is, but it's just a reminder of how much God is in so in control of all these little details.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it's been really it's been humbling in many ways, just to be reminded how much He leads us every step of the way in completely his timing.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just been such a reminder of that.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: So we're excited.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lot of unknowns, but we're excited about what he's what he's up to.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's definitely up to something.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think I was listening to a podcast the other day, and I I couldn't tell you who it was, but they were essentially replaying a sermon series that they had done through Job.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't remember how long ago he had done it, but and I just started listening, and I'm like, oh yeah, I think this would probably be good to engage in that story again with this in mind.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: So this might be the closest we felt.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I think highly relatable, though you guys have definitely gone through some storms, which I got your book and I were I was going to the way I had it scheduled to air, we weren't going to air this conversation until August.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that was just because I'm blessed with lots of opportunities to talk to a lot of people.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: But admittedly, because of the current situation, I have just been looking at the content I have and and really wanting to preach to myself and help my friends through this situation, right?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: When we we put our earbuds in, it needs to be relevant and we need to have something that we can tangibly apply to our lives right now.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: So when I started reading yours and Jeff's story and in the book Together Through the Storms, I thought, well, I think this is actually a very fitting topic for now because this moment feels incredibly hurtful on so many levels.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: So we need some wisdom on navigating this global storm as a married couple, not just individually, but how do we as a married couple weather this storm?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'll tell you honestly, we're trying to figure out how to do this right now ourselves.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: This is just so different than any.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we've gone through so much, but there's totally new things happening right now.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: So um, but I I think what's been so encouraging is we are seeing how what God has carried us through has prepared us in many ways.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really given us a heart to want to encourage other married couples that are maybe for the first time facing something really hard.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it it rattles you, it throws every aspect of your life in, especially for couples, we're all in really close quarters right now for the most part.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Or we maybe have a spouse that's leaving and doing a really difficult job right now because it's essential and there's there's other challenges.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I'm grateful my husband has a job, but it's really long days and it's hard because his experience and all of this looks very different than those of us who are at home.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's a different one to navigate for sure.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think what we be throughout all these years, which has always been the same, no matter what trial we all of a sudden get hit with, it is if we don't immediately go to the word and take those, uh, I mean, think of all the things that you're hit with.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Suddenly fear sets in, anxiety set in, um, maybe insecurities if we've lost something that used to make us feel kind of confident.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um the list is endless.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so if we don't have anywhere to go with that, if we don't know what to do with that, it's gonna come out in lots of ugly ways.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: So we've really tried to help encourage each other, even before we talk to each other.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: We need to both consistently be in God's word.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that, you know, our spouse may be at a different place spiritually.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: We can't, I I know there are gonna be people who are listening who your spouse either isn't a believer or they're just at a different place spiritually.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the good news is that our relationship with Christ is not dependent on a relation on our spouse's relationship with Christ.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, as much as it's a beautiful thing to share and not together and how God wants that for our marriages, and that is ultimately where we want to go if He allows that.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: We can't control our spouse.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so remembering that what can I control in this moment is where I take my own heart.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: We read scripture once a week, and then we're off and we're fueled for the week because anybody knows within 10 minutes we can be falling apart.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: I know for me, I am, you know, all of a sudden the kids are down, I'm feeling the stress, and I start quickly losing it, and I have to rehearse these truths again.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: So if we aren't giving ourselves that foundation to carry with us in the scripture as well as prayer and just saying, being honest with the Lord, this is new.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm feeling so overwhelmed by all this, I don't know what to do with this.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh Lord, give me what I need to walk through this, and give my spouse and I the ability to do this together.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's obviously, I think that that needs to always be the first thing, our first almost um reaction when battle comes is where do I run?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: I immediately run to the one who is my refuge.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then for couples, well, then after that, we also can't we do have to guard our relationship.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: So while Christ is first, we can't just then not talk to each other about it either.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so we have learned through many difficult and also handling it not well, um, just how you've done this perfect always, right?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, we have we have been to the bottom several times, and so this these have been hard fought truths that we have had to learn.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I think what we need to remember is that our natural tendency is to turn against each other when the things get hard.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's true.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's so interesting, right?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Especially I think, especially now, because they're primarily the other adult that we see the most.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, is that they are the ones that are gonna often take the brunt of the emotions we're dealing with, the the fears we're struggling with.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so the things we're doing good to not take out on our kids, our spouse gets, right?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, it's so true, sadly.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that is the reality though, if we're not careful.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, on one hand, we need to not view each other as though we're against each other.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: We need to continually remember look, this is something we are we are up against, and it's hard, but we are up against it together.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, it's really we're a gif, it's a gift we have each other to be unified in this.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we're alone in many ways and isolated in many ways.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: But what a gift that we have someone to walk through this with that can be by our side through it.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: So remembering that, yet at the same time not looking to each other to be the answer.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: That can be the flip side.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think that can be the other temptation.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm feeling anxious, I'm feeling overwhelmed by this, and then really unknowingly, I think I don't think we would let out the brunt of what we're dealing with.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we we want to run to each other in a healthy way, but we sometimes without knowing it end up putting too much on each other.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: We're expecting too much from the other person, which really isn't fair.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's not fair for me to expect Jeff to know exactly how I'm being impacted and how to deal with the specific anxieties I'm dealing with, or um, he can't take it away either.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: He can't promise me that tomorrow's gonna be better or that this is gonna happen or that this is not gonna happen.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of this and it's remembering that we aren't against each other, but it's also remembering that we can't solve each other's problems and we can't be everything for each other.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: So those have been really important to us.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then so important is just being able to extend grace to each other.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, think of how much is changing right now, and it's gonna be different for each of us.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, my my husband, he's dealing with going on five months of job loss, so he's wrestling with that day in and day out in ways that I can't always see.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas I'm dealing with suddenly schooling four children at home while a book is launching, while I'm doing other things that I had planned for the month of April, that is suddenly all of a sudden up in the air.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I deal with chronic illness.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just it's easy for me if I'm struggling with all these different things to um maybe have different challenges than Jeff may be facing.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I have to be understanding that though I'm feeling these things, he may be feeling something completely different.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: So if we're not talking about that, then there's naturally going to be things that erupt in between us because we're we're gonna misunderstand each other, or he may be reacting in a way to the kids.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: And if I quickly snap at that because I think, oh, you why are you getting so upset with them?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: before saying, Are you doing all right?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is something kind of weighing on you right now?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna get a lot further than me just snapping at him for yelling at the kids and vice versa, because we all have our moments.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um I had my moment last night, and I really did just need uh why don't you go take a break and I got it, you know, instead of the look of like, I know I'm being short-tempered right now, but I don't need the reminder.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly, exactly.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that's so important.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: We really have to give each other even just the space to grieve right now.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's so much change happening and there's so much loss.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's so important to acknowledge that with each other that this is hard.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: We can't just pretend everything's fine because it's not.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so we will we will do much better together, we will communicate much better together if we're first just kind of laying it out on the table, saying, look, this is the reality.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: We have to acknowledge this is reality right now, and then how do we move on from here together so that we're doing this in a united way rather than trying to figure this out separated?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that really guards us, I think, from a lot of the pitfalls that can happen right now.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so there's countless things, but those have been the things I think we're kind of rehearsing ourselves right now.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's really good.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Not only do we need to be checking in with ourselves and our kids, I think sometimes as moms in particular, we tend to think that way of asking them, how do you feel?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: What's your anxiety?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen a lot of even those memes floating around out there.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: But what you pointed out is are we giving that opportunity with each other?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're together so much, it's really easy to think, oh, we're just experiencing the same things, we're feeling the same way.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: When oftentimes because not only our personality is different, but our just our makeup is unique and and it's um a loss in a different way for each of us.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's a really good point to check in.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, um I would love to hear um for you to describe a little bit more about your book because Together Through the Storms was not written about this current storm.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's so applicable, like you said, based on the book of Job.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: But maybe tell us a little bit of how it was designed, some of the backstory, and then maybe even as us as readers, as we go through the material, what we can expect.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so this really has been forming over the last 15 years.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Not knowingly, of course, but sure.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: God has been doing these things that we write about in us for about 15 years.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, most probably intensely, the last 12 has been um the most challenging years for us.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Very, very different layered trials.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we had lots of different challenges, including also the neurological challenges with one of our children that have continued until this day.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: And gentle loss and financial loss, and I've lost a lot of my ability to walk with a degenerative ankle.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: So there's been a lot of loss layered on top of each other.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: And anybody who goes through trials knows those are the big things.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Usually the things that really wear us down are all the little things in between that on top of it.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and how those things impact everything else.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I think what really gave us the heart for this book um was coming to the point where we felt like we want to offer a resource for couples who are hurting and who are just navigating challenges in life.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: We've read lots of marriage books and they've all been excellent, but we didn't really come across any that just acknowledged how do the things that we deal with in life impact our marriage?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: How does all the from little things to big catastrophic things?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: How do those things impact our relationship and how do we navigate them as believers so that they don't destroy our marriage?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: How can they actually maybe strengthen our marriage as we turn to the Lord?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: But we wanted to be really practical about that because these are practical issues.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so um what we ended up doing is we want we wrote 25 shorter chapters just so they're a lot more digestible for people because you know we need that through challenges.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: We need we don't have lots of time exactly, and you don't.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like you when you're feeling really weighted down, you really can't digest a lot at once.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: You just you need nuggets that you can grab onto.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um wanted to give people something that they could just have a little bit at a time to be able to process.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so we have writ through 25 different chapters and we really covered quite a variety of topics.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, God has really taken us through a huge variety of um situations, yes, which has felt so so hard over the years.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: But what has been so neat is to see how he has used like every single ounce of it and given us um just such a beautiful picture of his redemption as we wrote this, because it we just started learning how much he's grown us through each different part of those trials we've gone through.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so this kind of feels like it was written in blood.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that sounds too grotesque, but it feels like a piece of us that poured out that God has been working on us level by level, layer by layer over the decade, and um, and now to see to be able to offer and to encourage other couples with what he's taught us and grown us in um has been such a gift.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so we didn't, we do include our story.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um we we certainly wanted it to be um just very clear that we're walking alongside of people through this, that we aren't on the other side, we haven't figured everything out.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: We are still navigating a lot of challenges.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: So we wanted the reader to know look, you're not alone.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: We are struggling just like you are in many ways, um, maybe in different circumstances, but um but this is what God is giving us even now in the storm.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so we want to encourage.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: People that are actually in the storm, or maybe just to even prepare them for the trials that may come.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so we cover everything from just when trials first hit, um, any size, you know, can be little things like just each other getting on each other's nerves because we're both sinners, or that we start battling, or um, a challenge with one of our children, or health issues, all the different kinds of things that can come in nature.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: They really do teach us a lot of the same things, and God gives us the same promises as we navigate them.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: So we talk about um when loss comes, any kind of loss.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, for us, it was majorly financial.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so we do want to encourage people in that area, which is very applicable right now.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: Now, um, and I I do encourage people um to read that chapter, especially with this in mind right now.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we've faced times of having plenty, and we've to face times of having um barely scraping by and being on food stamps.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so just giving things that God has taught us in both, and um, to encourage couples, especially right now, who are just facing a lot of uncertainty.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then chronic illness, um, we have a chapter for husbands, a chapter for wives.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we actually, after talking to a lot of people, decided to put two chapters in there on intimacy because if we are honest, intimacy is hard regardless, and then you add challenges in life, and that area is primarily one of the most attacked areas and can create a lot of challenges, and so we wanted to be kind of upfront about that.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: We're we're not um, we keep it um so it's very readable, it's not gonna make anybody blush.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's definitely gonna be very readable for the husband and the wife.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um and we really want to give a big picture of intimacy as a whole for couples.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that, and then we cover everything from just the challenges of um comfort, how do we comfort each other?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: How do we grieve differently than each other, lamenting um when God seems silent in our trials or just long seasons of waiting?
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so there's a lot that we cover in here.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's a couple chapters for on kids, um, challenges with kids or child loss.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then really relating to Job and what does the story of Job teach us?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: You may not think uh marriage book, you think of Job.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right, not off the top of your head, but that makes so much sense.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we have actually Job has been such a lifeline for us for many years because suffering, if you think about suffering in the Bible, your mind is gonna go to Job.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Job is the is the book of the Bible that helps us wrestle the most with the really deep, challenging questions of suffering.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so we found ourselves going back there over and over and over, and so many deep lessons that we glean from Job.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, you might find it interesting how many things that you can apply to marriage in Job.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: We found it so fascinating as we went.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so you think about what's going on now, so much loss happening in so many ways.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, here's a man who lost everything, and how did he hold on to his faith in the Lord?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: How did he continue to go on and not turn away from the Lord?
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that's there's so much hope we can hold on to in those chapters.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of how it goes.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's journaling pages at the end, there's some reflection questions.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: So we'd love it for couples to do it together if they can.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but again, like I said earlier, that may not be possible for some, and that's okay.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it's written so that each individual, the husband and wife, can read it alone and take a lot from it and apply it personally.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: And Lord willing, if your spouse can do it, that's that's even better.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um so there's questions you can ask and talk through together too, if if you're able to do it.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: So now here it's simply wholehearted.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a certified Enneagram coach.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: So we love to talk about how this helps us in our wholehearted relationship, not only with God, but with ourselves and with each other.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I have been so grateful for how the Enneagram has helped my marriage.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Have you guys, you know, dove into the Enneagram at all?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: Have you explored that?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know your personalities or anything?
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not really.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I there was one point where we started to a little bit, um, but I haven't done a lot in it.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I do know some friends that have done quite a bit in it.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I know we're different.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: That I can certainly tell you.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um I can see, um, I do know that when we did it, I remember seeing how God had really taken us from very different extremes in personality and in different, you know, we just different challenges, different weaknesses, different strengths.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I did see how much actually through the years that he's taken us through, um, how much those began to complement each other more and more.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: And started to somewhat um blend us.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that makes sense.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like absolutely the polars kind of started to come together and started to blend each other, where I am starting to reflect a little more of his character traits and vice versa, um, which while at the same time keeping our distinctive um weaknesses and strengths that really complement each other.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: So from that standpoint, it has been really um interesting to see uh, which really just shows in general how the Lord so purposefully puts us together and wants to do that.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: He even uses us in our relationship with our spouse to sanctify, like through him, it's sanctifying us by having someone who is different from us and has different strengths and weaknesses.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: And how much he can use that.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so rather than seeing those things as negatives, seeing how he can actually use those to grow us, um, which we have certainly seen.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: I like to say we learn to not just tolerate the differences, but we learn to celebrate them.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that that really helps.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: That was a mindset shift for me as well.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: I I guess I will have to gift you.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: I have created a two video guides uh that are less than 30 minutes, and they the first one kind of takes you through understanding if the Enneagram is something that's worth exploring for you.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then the second one kind of highlights the two best aspects of it of what we can learn about our personalities ourselves and then how we interact with others and how um how each of us handles conflicts differently and how we make decisions differently.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: So those are kind of fun.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll I'll just have to give those to you.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now I have your email address, I'll I'll send them to you and you guys can with all the free time that you have, maybe after you get the book launched.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: That you can explore it.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: But I I think it's so true.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: The Lord always I love the conversations with couples once they go through the Enneagram and they're like, oh, it's crazy to see how our personalities, you know, why they hit the way they do and what connects, you know, the way that it connects.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: And and there's no bad combination.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: They all have their challenges and they all have their strengths, and and ultimately it's learning how to how to work with those and to grow from one another for sure.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: True.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, while we wait for your book, because this is gonna air where, you know, a few weeks before the actual release, but we can pre-order it on Amazon.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what are the three ways that we can strengthen our marriage in the middle of this crisis?
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: What are you shared a lot of how we navigate this storm, but maybe three practical takeaways that we can go show our love or you know, just work on strengthening?
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I'd say we were actually just talking about this and a couple of the things that we have been trying to implement um are one is consistently a little bit of what I was sharing earlier, but consistently having time um every day if possible, but every couple days where we're kind of um coming back and establishing again, all right, where are things at right now?
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: Trying to establish a plan because this is also new that we're trying to figure out how is this gonna look?
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so having some kind of a plan um that's good, both with the kids, that's partly with the kids, but also just as a couple, uh, you know, he's home all the time, he is looking for jobs, but it looks different right now.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, what things can he take to try to help out with a part of the schooling for the kids, like something that he's stronger in math, or you know, how are we gonna handle um different roles that maybe are totally up in the air right now that used to be different?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so having a plan has been really helpful.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, we found ourselves stumbling into problems that we just didn't really think through.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then the second thing is finding ways to give each other breaks for for us at least, and for the many people that are at home all the time right now, or even if your spouse is out, they're I'm sure coming home exhausted with all the challenges they're facing right now.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: So thinking and talking to each other, like what would give me a break?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, would go into the room for an hour to be able to read while my husband takes care of the kids for that little bit, or giving him some time to go for a run and I can watch the kids or get dinner going or whatever.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, discussing that, like how can we help each other survive?
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you know, yes, I think we need that.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's the practical.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: How can we help take each other physically, emotionally, spiritually?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: How can we help each other through this?
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then lastly, is just finding ways to add some kind of fun.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's a lot of heaviness.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: So true.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: So we gotta get creative right now.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, we can't go out on a date like we usually would.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, how can we bring the date home?
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: How can we take turns planning a night?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, let's I'm gonna order something in, I'm gonna surprise you with what I'm ordering out.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna, I'm gonna pick a movie we're gonna watch, or I'm gonna pick a game that we're gonna do together.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: Something creative that brings something fun into the mix, even taking advantage of the fact that this is such an unusual time where we are together all the time.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: How can we take advantage of this?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: And um, we may never have a time like this again.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so thinking about how can we find some fun ways to implement maybe new routines that maybe will stick with us after this time goes on.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um that will brighten the mood.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: We just we need to keep having some joy brought in, find things to laugh about, watch a clean comedy together, you know.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, things like that that can help bring some smiles to our faces.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's so important right now.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, the other day I was like, I don't care what we do, but we have to find something fun.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, we're none of us are gonna make it.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's so true, and that's true.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: We talk about that in our book because it's so true, even when you have a lot of really heavy, hard things going on, that you've got to remember to laugh.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, God has given us that gift of laughter, and we may have to find ways to teach ourselves to laugh again, um, and find ways to help promote that a little bit, but it's it's such a healthy medicine for us to help keep remembering that there are good things in life too.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of hard, but there's a lot of good too, and to help us remember those.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I think it's really important.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: It I think, you know, when I do go to the grocery store and when I go out and about, I'm just thinking through how can I smile as much as possible because you know, sometimes you can almost sense the spirit of fear in the place.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, no, none of this.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna smile through this.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: There's still joy to be found.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: We're alive, the sun is shining, we're gonna be okay.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: But also, yeah, just as a family, that laughter, the laughter is such good medicine for our heart, and there are still plenty to have joy and to laugh and to celebrate.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: So um it's not always our responsibility, and that's like you said, let's talk about as a family, let's talk about with our spouses how can we laugh more, how can we have fun and and try to celebrate in the midst of this.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that's good.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Sarah, thank you.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I know we've had to deal with a lot of technical difficulties, but we didn't, and I've loved this conversation and I'm so excited for my friends, Celeste.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you so much.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: It was so fun talking to you.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: Are you ready to strengthen your marriage as you go through this crisis together?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: I am grateful for Sarah's ideas to invest in your spouse, even when it feels or if it feels easier to do nothing.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: I do believe that we will see the growth in God and with our marriage, even in the midst of so much uncertainty.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: You can get Jeff and Sarah's book Together Through the Storms, Biblical Encouragement for Your Marriage When Life Hurts on Amazon now.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd love it if you would give them a follow on Instagram and send her a direct message to let her know what you've learned from this conversation.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: And if you know a mom who could get some encouragement, please share this conversation with her to let her know that you are thinking of her.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: And next week, we will be back with another new and timely conversation.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: Be sure that you are subscribed so you don't miss an episode.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, until next week, let's pursue perspective, purpose, and plans for a simpler.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: Wholehearted life.