Latest / Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast, Helping you create a profitable, sustainable law firm you love / 225: Rachel King | The Lawyer King Shares Why (and How) She Scaled Up and Back Down Again

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225: Rachel King | The Lawyer King Shares Why (and How) She Scaled Up and Back Down Again · Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast, Helping you create a profitable, sustainable law firm you love

• 0:00
  Rachel: I think being able to be more accepting of different lifestyles, different work environments, all of it really helped with a work life balance. With your virtual firm, that is incredible for a work life balance. And we're seeing that that allows lawyers to continue on. If you don't figure out how you can practice law in a way that's going to allow you to be something other than a lawyer, whether you're a man or a woman, you're going to burn out and you're going burn out sooner than you wanted to. Right?
• 0:31
  I started burning out before my pocketbook said it was okay and I thought I have to do something different here.
• 0:38
  Intro: Welcome to the Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast. What if you could hang out with successful women lawyers, ask them about growing their firms, managing resources like time, team, and systems, mastering money issues, and more? Then take an insight or two to help you build a wealth generating law firm. Each week, your host, Devina Frederick, takes an in-depth look at how to think like a CEO, attract clients who you love to serve and will pay you on time, and create a profitable, sustainable firm you love. Devina is founder and CEO of Wealthy Woman Lawyer, and her goal is to give you the information you need to scale your law firm business from 6 to 7 figures in gross annual revenue so you can fully fund and still have time to enjoy the lifestyle of your dreams.
• 1:24
  Now here's Devina.
• 1:28
  Davina: Hi. This is Devina. And before we jump into today's show, I'd like first to introduce you to some of our sponsors. When prospective clients are looking for an attorney, they usually turn to Google first. Optimize My Firm helps law firms grow their practices and attract more right fit clients through on page and back end search engine optimization.
• 1:52
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• 2:13
  Davina: and no contracts.
• 2:14
  Davina: Contact them today at optimizemyfirm.com or click the link in the show notes.
• 2:20
  Davina: Rachel King, lawyer, veteran, entrepreneur, wife, mother, triathlete, ultramarathoner, yogi, in no particular order, lives in California and practices law in California, Arizona, Kentucky, and Texas. She opened her law firm in 2014 after owning multiple companies and achieving success by taking 1 to $1,000,000. To date, Rachel's firm has helped thousands of people and earns in excess of 7 figures annually. Rachel is a fierce legal advocate. She spent years building reputation as a fighter for clients' rights in the eyes of law and getting the main voice in the courtroom.
• 2:56
  Since opening her law firm, King Law Firm Attorneys at Law, in 2014, Ms. King has been unequivocally dedicated to working with her clients in a way that allows them to understand the legal system, the laws, and the process to reach their goal in court. Rachel also works primarily as a strategic litigator in elder abuse, undue influence, family law, conservatorships, guardianships, and will and trust contests. She's a participating member of the financial abuse specialist team in Orange County and works with Laura's house to provide assistance to those in domestic violence situation. She regularly speaks on related legal issues.
• 3:34
  She's been a guest on CBS more than once and was featured at LA Weekly as a top 10 industry expert. Rachel has also been highlighted by San Diego Woman Magazine, US Insider, SD Voyager, Canvas Rebel, and more. She intends to speak publicly to inform and educate in these highly emotional areas of law. And now she is a guest on the Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast. So hi, Rachel, and welcome.
• 4:01
  I'm so happy that you're here today. Before we jump in and get started, tell me a little bit about The Lawyer King and your law firm and how you serve your clients.
• 4:12
  Rachel: Where I find myself in 2023 and 2024 and as we move forward is a litigator in the high conflict emotional areas of loss. So think family law, trust contests, probate contests, elder abuse, conservatorships, things like that if they are in court, then I am really focusing my practice on that and I absolutely love it. It's been amazing to get here. And I think all of the previous things that I focused on at my firm and then as a lawyer have really made it so that I can do this area the best that I can be. Of course, always trying to improve.
• 4:52
  Davina: Yeah. Yeah. It's fascinating to me because when I was looking at your services and I noticed everything is litigation, it's so interesting because some people are love litigation. Other people like, oh my God, I never wanna litigate. I'm gonna do everything transactional.
• 5:08
  And here in The United States, if you're an attorney, you may have a blend of that. It's not like in The UK where they separate those out. So I'm really curious as to what it is that you love about litigation.
• 5:23
  Rachel: Well, love being in court. So I think that is really where it all started. And again, didn't start solely as a litigator. I started doing transactional, all different things, but I really enjoyed my court appearances. You start to love the things that you're really good at.
• 5:40
  And so as I had more and more cases that went to trial and I really learned the rules of evidence, You know, we learn the rules of evidence in law school and you maybe have an idea of them as you practice, but until you learn them in a trial setting, I don't think you really know how to use the rules of evidence. So the more and more experience I got with that, I just found that I'm really good at bringing evidence and telling a story in the courtroom. And I love the completion that comes in trial. As an attorney, we worked so hard from conception of a case till the very end resolution. And I feel like the opportunity to sit in a courtroom and put on a trial is like all of the hard work, blood, sweat, and tears research, it all comes together in a few days.
• 6:29
  I know some attorneys hate it, right? It's the most stressful thing. For me, I think it's the most fun and easiest part. It's like, all right, here it all is. I'm just going to go through and tell the story.
• 6:38
  And I think the telling of the story is so fun.
• 6:42
  Davina: Yeah, I think it's very interesting that you frame it that way too, that you're talking about storytelling. Storytelling is a lot more fun than I have to go and try to get this into evidence and do this and do the mechanics of it. Like, I think a lot of people, if you're not comfortable with the mechanics of it, it's like any sort of career or art form, mastery makes it a lot more fun because then you can do what was really intended with it. Once you've mastered all of the mechanics of something. You're really free to be the that you are.
• 7:17
  Wanna go back with and share your story of becoming a lawyer and what you did before you became a lawyer and what influenced you to become a lawyer because I listened to some other recordings that you've done and I find your story to be really interesting and fun to talk about. So let's go back to little Rachel. This is something where you always thought you would be a lawyer or what was that like for you as a child?
• 7:40
  Rachel: My dad is a lawyer, so I grew up around law. My parents are divorced and I had the very typical visitation schedule where I would spend holidays and half the summer with my dad and all the rest of the time with my mom. So when I went to my dad's house, he still had to work. But as a child, you just want the undivided attention. So it seems like it happened often.
• 8:03
  It may not have, but I remember so well that in the evenings and on the weekends, he would tell me the stories of his cases and then he would ask me like, so do you think that's fair? What do you think I should do? And even though I know that now as an adult, know I had zero say in what was happening. He really made me feel like when I would suggest to me that's a good idea, I'm going to do it. And again, I don't know how it played out, but that really had it resonate with me.
• 8:31
  I also will be very honest that I liked the power that came, and I noticed it as a child when my dad would say he was an attorney, kind of the power and the respect that automatically was demanded and given with that title. And I liked the possibilities of the lifestyle that you could have. You have the ability to have a lot of freedom to make a very good living. And so I think all of it together, I knew I wanted to be a lawyer from a teenager. Now that is not how it ended up playing out.
• 9:02
  Davina: Right. Right. Right. What did you end doing before you went to law school? Before you went to college
• 9:07
  Rachel: and law school? What did you do? That's the fun part. So I knew I wanted to be a lawyer. So I graduated high school, and I went straight to college.
• 9:15
  I learned in the first six weeks that I wasn't really ready for college mentally. I didn't go to class and that's problematic. So I stopped going. And the results, no surprise, except it was a surprise when I was 18, was that my parents stopped paying for me. And I found myself really thinking, Oh my gosh, what am I going to do with myself?
• 9:37
  I'm a very resilient person. I was surrounded by military friends. So I thought I'll go into the army. I And remember going into we go to MEPS when you are to the military entrance processing station, I think it's called, and talking to the army. And I said, I need to I don't have any money.
• 9:54
  I have no place to live because my mom had kicked me out. And they said, Okay, we'll send you to basic training in six months. And I said, Oh yeah, I have to be gone in two weeks. If I'm not gone in two weeks, I'm going be on the next plan. They said, Okay.
• 10:10
  And the reason I chose two weeks was because I figured I could call my mom and show her a military contract and say, Let me stay at your house just for two more weeks until I ship out.
• 10:19
  Davina: The logic. The logic. And
• 10:22
  Rachel: so it worked and I joined the army. I had a child very young, not part of my plan. I got married. I had multiple children. I realized shortly in a couple years into my military journey that I wasn't going to do a lifetime.
• 10:38
  I didn't want it to be a career. So instead, again, as a young mom, I focused my military time on finishing my bachelor's degree, got out, used my GI bill to pay for law school. And so by the time I became a lawyer, I was married with three children at a completely different phase of my life than many people that go the straight through path.
• 11:01
  Davina: Right, right, right. And a path that one would have imagined you have gone through admiring your dad as a lawyer. I imagine that that detour into the army probably really helped you in a lot of ways. Just from a maturity standpoint, I would imagine self discipline, those kinds of things going from 18 to that. What was that your experience or was it like, no, it was terrible?
• 11:27
  Rachel: Well, was certainly days in the military that I didn't enjoy, but I will say my recollection and my takeaway from my time in the military is nothing but positive. I learned huge life skills, integrity, things that really carry through so much farther than serving in the military. And the discipline, embrace the suck attitude, and sometimes life just sucks. And so I think all of that really helps me get through. Again, I enjoyed my time.
• 11:57
  I think if I could do it again, I would still join the military. And I'm so grateful that they paid for my law school, and that's huge. That's huge right now.
• 12:08
  Davina: And the conversation that I have with so many younger lawyers now dealing with law school debt, like a lot of times their options are limited because of the amount of debt. That's Although it wasn't like an intentional choice, I don't think based on what you're telling, it worked out well for you, right? To be able to have that, right?
• 12:25
  Rachel: Oh, a 100%. And interestingly, this isn't really with military, but the fact that I went into law school, when I entered law school, had a six year old and a 10 old, and then I had my third child in law school. And a lot of people, they don't expect that when they know me now. They're kind of surprised with that. Having children and being at that point in my life with my military history and being a mom and a wife really I think added to my success in law school because I was forced to compartmentalize.
• 12:56
  I would look at kids, well they weren't kids, they were adults, but younger people in law school and think, man, you get eight hours in the library, that is awesome. I have like two hours in the library and then I have to go and change a diaper or make dinner or something. And that's such a valuable skill, I think, in law just generally because if you can't compartmentalize, you're going to drown in the legal field. So having that and really learning to hone it, I was forced to compartmentalize when I was in law school because of where I was. And it has been something that I've carried through and I think has led to my success.
• 13:32
  Davina: I have always really admired women who started law school pregnant and had a child. Some start law school pregnant and end law school pregnant with a second, right? I had friends in law school who did that and I'm like, how are you doing this? Because I do not have children and I was going home every night, just staying up for hours, reading all these chapters and eating chocolate covered almonds and gaining 30 pounds in law school. That's what I did, right?
• 13:59
  I think I gained 10 pounds just studying for the bar. I have such anxiety around it. And I went to law school in my late thirties and became an attorney in my forties. How old were you when you went to law school?
• 14:10
  Rachel: I started law school at 27, and I took the at 30. I think I took the bar right before I was 30 or when I was 30. Can't remember. Turned I aged up. Yeah.
• 14:21
  Davina: Excellent. The thirties, I think, are really the years when people are most passionate about their careers and most really sort of put in all of that energy, thirties and forties, get to your fifties, start getting a little tired. But tell me, what was your career path once you graduated law school? You worked someplace else for a while. When did you start your firm?
• 14:42
  Again, I
• 14:42
  Rachel: grew up in law, so I was around and I helped in my dad's law firm. During law school, I had interned at few law firms. I actually worked for my law school for a period of time in a clinic and doing some different things. So all of that, I think I was a previous business owner. I already owned businesses.
• 14:59
  So I think you couple all of that together. And when I passed the bar, the only thing I wanted to do was open my own firm. And that was for a lot of reasons. But the primary driving force was I'd gotten out of the military and gone straight to law school. And quite frankly, I was so tired of commuting.
• 15:16
  The thought of going and working for another law firm where somebody else dictated my time, I was over it. And I thought, I'm going to practice law the way that I want to. I'm going work how I want to, and I'm going to figure out how I can balance all of the roles that we play, being a mom, a woman, a wife, all of them, a lawyer, a business owner. So that was my direct path out of law school. It was super scary, but again, I had experience owning companies, so I treated it just like any other business that I'd had.
• 15:49
  And I relied very heavily on my dad to kind of guide me with how things go. I was fortunate that we had Google when I started. So I used Google a lot. I took it one day at a time but I did it really because I wanted to be in control. I feel like I brought the millennial into law.
• 16:09
  I was kind of on that cusp and I thought I'm not going to go do law the way any any of the previous generations are. I'm going do it the millennial way. And that's what I did. And it worked out fabulously.
• 16:20
  Davina: What job, this is a little side note, what businesses did you have before you started your law firm?
• 16:26
  Rachel: So when I was 12, I started a babysitting company that is very similar to the babysitter's club. After that, then I got into teaching swimming lessons and lifeguarding. And I started, I think I was 16, maybe 17, I started a at home swimming instruction company. Again, I had my lessons and then I had other people that worked for me that would do the lessons.
• 16:50
  Davina: You not only started your own business, you actually hired people. So you didn't just like do freelance work and get paid. You started businesses where you hire people who work for you.
• 17:02
  Rachel: I probably shouldn't. Didn't do any of it the right way. Right? I had my friends come along and like, I paid them cash and stuff. But yes, and other people that I would recruit to handle the overflow, babysitting jobs I couldn't do or swimming lessons that I couldn't do.
• 17:21
  And then I took a bit of a pause after that again, college and the military kind of took over. And then when my husband got out of the military in about 2010, we started a company called DIY Barbecue doing outdoor barbecue islands. And I really ran that company all the way up until I graduated law school and became or started my own firm.
• 17:43
  Davina: So running that company, having babies, going through law school at the same time, did you sleep during that period of time?
• 17:49
  Rachel: Piece of cake. You know what? I did, I guess. I'm alive. But I it's a story that I shouldn't say, but I do.
• 17:57
  I don't remember much about that time of my life. Right? I remember bits and pieces. My daughter had turned one year old during this time. I can't remember what I was doing.
• 18:06
  Maybe I was studying for the bar or running. I don't know what I was doing, something. And I got a call from my mom at like two p. M. I'd already talked to her at like nine a.
• 18:13
  M. And then she called me at two p. M. And at the two p. M.
• 18:15
  Call, she said, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry, Rachel. I said, are you sorry about? She said, I forgot it was Abby's birthday today. She's one. And I dropped my phone and I was like, oh my god, I forgot that it's my one year old's birthday.
• 18:26
  So that's kind of where my head was at during that phase of my life.
• 18:32
  Davina: I think, well, fortunately, she was probably too young to even remember that. If you've never told the story, she wouldn't have remembered it. But I can imagine that because I can't imagine going through law school with young children, having babies and also running a business at the same time. Had to be really challenging. What year did you start your law firm?
• 18:50
  2014. 2014. And tell me what kind of how you started it. Did you immediately hire people? Did you start out just working with just yourself?
• 19:02
  Or what how did that go?
• 19:03
  Rachel: Yeah. So I'm a big believer in starting a company with as little money. I don't think you need a lot of money. When I started my law firm, we were on a very tight budget. We didn't have any money really at all.
• 19:15
  I think I had $1,800 that I was going to dedicate to starting this law firm and I had to figure out how to use it. I knew that my time would be better spent outsourcing certain things like starting a website. I didn't need to learn how to right away or create a website. So that $1,800 got me business cards. It got me a website design.
• 19:36
  And I think it might have gotten me some access. I can't remember what some software program. I can't remember what I was using at the time. And then I took my feet to the pavement and I said if I was working full time, I would be at my job for eight hours. So for eight hours a day, I need to be going and telling people I'm a lawyer.
• 19:57
  And then somebody will hire me, right? And that's what happened. So I got one client and then for the time that I wasn't working on my client's case, I'd go out and use the rest of the time to spread the word that I was a lawyer. And I did that. I would say it took me about a year till I had so much work.
• 20:14
  Was getting challenging to answer my own phones and do things like that. So I hired my first staff member, I believe, about a year in. Very scary. It's very scary to do. And so you're starting a company and you haven't pulled the trigger, it's worth it, but it's hard.
• 20:31
  And then it's kind of been a domino effect. Shortly after hiring my first employee, I hired a second employee, had attorneys and paralegals and the whole nine yards working for me.
• 20:41
  Davina: And so how many do you have now?
• 20:42
  Rachel: So actually, last year, we scaled back quite a bit because I kind of took a shift. Maybe it was two years ago. I took a shift and I went completely litigation. So now we have six people working for me, and I have no attorneys right now. I am really trying to change how litigation is done, and I want to find an attorney that will practice litigation the way I think it should be done, which is storytelling.
• 21:10
  I think you should tell a story. So that's kind of where we are at now. Think my highest employee rate was like 12, so I think I've had up to 12 people.
• 21:19
  Davina: So I want to come back to the storytelling, but first I want to just jump back for So I want to ask you, what did you do to spread the word? What tools did you use to spread the word? Were you social media? Were you meeting in person? What kinds of things were you doing?
• 21:37
  Rachel: I didn't have any money. So I looked at a whole bunch of different options, but then I ruled them out quite quickly. So I looked at radio and radio was very expensive. I looked at SEO ads online that was very it was out of my budget. I had $1,800.
• 21:53
  So I literally hit the pavement. I went and I went to every chamber event that existed, every networking event by private companies. I would go as many times as I could until I had to join. I met people. I went to bar meetings.
• 22:09
  I tried to find anybody that would potentially have a connection with somebody that wanted to be a lawyer or needed a lawyer. And I verbally spread the word. I did a little bit of social media. I dabbled into social media, but I didn't really get into that until I think year two. Starting in year two of owning my firm, I made it an effort that every year I would try a different marketing strategy to not get rid of previous ones, but just try something new.
• 22:37
  And so I really pushed social media and blogging and organic SEO starting in year two. Year three, I finally bit the bullet on radio. I hated it, so I got out of radio. And I've kind of slowly progressed through the way. I still believe in marketing.
• 22:56
  I think every company still needs to market even when you get the phone calls ringing naturally, being relevant and advocating for your own company and spreading the word. That is what a business owner does.
• 23:09
  Davina: Absolutely. Well, storytelling. It's another form of storytelling. But it's harder storytelling, I think, for lawyers, because or for anybody who owns a business because you have to talk about you and you have to tell your story. And until you sort of get comfortable with that, your story and your firm story and how you serve and how you serve your clients and why you do it and what it means to you and all of that until you get comfortable with that.
• 23:34
  I think it's always harder when we're talking about us and our thing as opposed to telling a client's story. And so a lot of lawyers sort of stumble over that. They hate marketing because they're really having to talk about themselves in a way and they'd rather sort of talk about their clients. You probably having had an example of that with your dad, your dad probably having his own firm, you saw that and saw what he did or maybe he told you that that's what he did. What advice did he give you when you started your own firm?
• 24:03
  Rachel: Oh, well, he told me that I should, it was funny actually, I still do it to this day. Maybe that's why I have the clothing that I have. He said, Don't forget that you're a woman, you don't need to be a man. And I think that's an interesting thing. But I think what he really meant is so many women, and again, this was a while ago, so many women were entering the legal field and wearing the all black suits and really not kind of embracing the fact that they were a woman and that you don't need to, it doesn't give you any more sense of authority.
• 24:31
  That was one thing. Said, You don't need to change who you are. So I have really fun suits. I like to be trendy and dress nicely. And then other than that, he told me that he really, I guess, taught me about communicating with clients.
• 24:50
  And whenever he would talk to clients, he always seemed very down to earth. And he had a chair that was a normal chair. And I took some of that when I was starting my firm. Again, was pretty lucky because I came in right before the millennial crew. I'm the oldest millennial and I got in kind of right then.
• 25:09
  And so I took this idea that I'm going to practice my way. I'm going to wear what I want to wear. I'm going to have the kind of office that I want to have. I'm going to speak how I want to speak. And I'm going to present law as though I'm an equal for my clients rather than this marble table with a huge executive chair.
• 25:32
  I don't want that. I didn't like that and I didn't want to present that. So as I was marketing for myself, I was trying to be very authentic and it was really I shouldn't say it was accepted in the legal field. I got a lot of pushback from attorneys, but it was really accepted in society. So just being authentic and practicing how I wanted to naturally resonated with potential clients.
• 25:54
  And they liked that I was a regular person starting a business, acting as a lawyer, a mom, a wife, like all the things.
• 26:02
  Davina: That's very interesting because you mentioned generation a couple of times. So I'm the first year Gen Zer. I mean, Gen Xer, first year Gen Xer. So, and so a career not in law. My first career was in the 80s and 90s.
• 26:18
  And in the 90s in the corporate world, you and eighties, you remember the big shoulder pads of the
• 26:23
  Rachel: eighties, right?
• 26:24
  Davina: Earrings, all that. You definitely had to bring masculine energy. So if your dad's probably closer to my age, came up seeing that kind of thing. And that is what women had to do during that time. There wasn't the option of being different because if you wanna be accepted as a lawyer, you had to come in and bring masculine energy because there just were so few women.
• 26:47
  You wouldn't be accepted that way. I've heard stories. I've had people tell me stories of people coming in and saying, I don't want the woman as my turn. So you really had to bring that kind of energy to it. And so it's wonderful to see generations progressing millennials now Gen Z being coming along at the right time, having shoulders that they've stood on to be able to do some of the things because that's ultimately what people are working for was to be able to evolve and everybody sort of be their own authentic self.
• 27:18
  But you actually couldn't do that in early Yeah.
• 27:22
  Rachel: Like I said, I got a lot of pushback from lawyers. I had one lawyer tell me, you will never be successful if you dress like that. I think I was wearing tights, black slacks, and boots that were just under the knee and a pretty sweater. But I wasn't going to court. I was just like walking around my office and he was older.
• 27:39
  I thought, how dare you? I mean, I look and what I wear have anything to do with how good I am. And I think my stance on that was just at a time where people were ready for it. They were ready and willing to accept, and they almost found it more relatable. And I think because of where I was in history, the fact that I said, I'm not going to wear the black suit.
• 28:07
  I don't even maybe now I own one black suit. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to put a suit on every day when I go to work because I have kids and I don't want to all the time and I can't afford the dry cleaning bill. And all of these things I think people just thought, oh gosh, I love that. I just want a lawyer that's going to talk to me about my case, explain what's going on, and partner with me through this lawsuit instead of dictate and make me feel little.
• 28:38
  Davina: And there's a perception of people having a perception that lawyers think they're here and I'm here and coming into it and say, no, no, we're both here. I just happen to have this education and knowledge and I'm going to help you solve this problem. It's definitely a different branding. I started my law firm in 2007, I had a lot of pushback on things as well. Not so much how I dressed or whatever because I've always loved fashion.
• 29:06
  That's never Although I did, my first day at a law firm before I became a lawyer, I worked in marketing. And my first day, I showed up in a purple silk suit. And that was gorgeous. It was gorgeous. And everybody's shocked because the women attorneys did not dress like that.
• 29:25
  But I was in marketing. So I dressed completely, very bright colors, very have red hair, all of it. So I walked in and people were like, oh my god. But I definitely had pushback when I started my virtual firm before virtual was a thing was in like 2011. And I had someone say to me, that will never work.
• 29:44
  Your clients would not like that. And you see how time rolls along and things change. So that's the exciting part. The technology that's available now because of the pandemic and so many people working from home and how people are sort of creating more holistic lifestyles with work and home and all of that. All of that, it's amazing when the culture around us at large changes, what it can do and who drives it.
• 30:10
  You know, we're driving. You see a lot of women driving this because you have a lot of women who are saying, there's no place for me in this traditional corporate environment. I wanna go create something that is uniquely me. And I know there are enough people out there like me who will gravitate toward that. So it's very powerful.
• 30:28
  It's very powerful. I love that about your story.
• 30:31
  Rachel: Yeah, it really. Thank you. It really is. And I think burn, especially in the legal profession, burnout is extraordinarily high and I am not immune to that. I faced it in 2019 actually.
• 30:42
  I think the pandemic really helped me with my work life balance. But I think being able to be more accepting of different lifestyles, different work environments, all of it really helped with a work life balance. With your virtual firm, that is incredible for a work life balance. And we're seeing that that allows lawyers to continue on. If you don't figure out how you can practice law in a way that's going to allow you to be something other than a lawyer, whether you're a man or a woman, you're going to burn out and you're going to burn out sooner than you wanted to.
• 31:17
  I started burning out before my pocketbook said it was okay. And I thought, I have to do something different here. That
• 31:25
  Davina: was my first law firm. My first law firm, that was exactly what happened is I was setting up the traditional model. For me, it wasn't at the time of my life. It just didn't fit that me at that time of my life. Now for other people, it fits them.
• 31:41
  It depends on where you are in your life. And I think that to me is what's really great about now is that we have the flexibility to show up in different ways, right? Where there was a time when that wasn't an option. If you didn't get a job with a law firm, you know, you're starving living hand to mouth as a solo. So there's no solos going out and building million dollar law firm businesses.
• 32:05
  There wasn't anybody to support that. You just stayed solo your whole career and probably didn't make that much money if you didn't get in with a big firm. And now I love seeing women especially, of course, because that's what I'm all about is, you know, firms and creating million dollar firms and doing it in a really unique way and not a traditional way. Now there's anything wrong with the traditional way. Can work for some people.
• 32:28
  But I think our technology and the times we live in and all of that have helped bring that about. So it's very exciting to see that that is happening, you know, in the way that we work. And thanks to, you know, women like you who said, I'm not gonna put up with that. I'm gonna I'm gonna dress how I want to. What are talking about my clothes for?
• 32:45
  So tell me about you got up to about 12 people. What changed for you that made you I know you said you wanted to just kind of narrow down and focus on litigation, but was there a moment that you had a realization or was something happening or what made you think that?
• 33:01
  Rachel: When I started my firm, I said, I'm going to treat it like a law firm. I mean, a business. I'm not going to treat it as though I'm a lawyer. And that's one of the things I think leads to a successful firm is that you can't forget that you actually run a company and just get bogged down with the practice of law. Again, I was getting really burned out in about 2019, then the pandemic happened, I had to change.
• 33:22
  I was already on my way to becoming a virtual firm, being cloud based. The pandemic, of course, made that 100%. We transitioned completely. But when I got back from the pandemic and we started cranking again, I mean, we did really well over the pandemic, but when we started kind of coming out of it, I noticed very quickly that my balance was shifting because I was having to handle so many people. And I know 10 to 12 doesn't seem like a lot, but it's a lot when you're the lawyer and you're owning the firm and you're also practicing law.
• 33:57
  And I didn't want to fall back into that pattern of working so much that I didn't have the joy with my family or the time by myself that I really needed for my own mental health. I just decided I'm not going to do this. I guess the real turning point happened over time. But I looked at my books one day and I thought, Oh my gosh, I am literally working harder than anybody else at my office, which is fine because I'm the owner. But I'm making less than everybody else at my office.
• 34:33
  And I also see my work life balance is off. And at that point, I thought I'm going to not do that. I'm going to transition to doing the area of law that I want. I'm going to get rid of all of the things that I don't like. And that is having a whole huge staff.
• 34:49
  I don't like having a whole huge staff. And I knew that I liked litigation. So I'm going to create a trial. Everybody that works at my office is going to be an intricate part of my trial track so that we can always be the best that we can in court. And I'm going get rid of all of the fluff.
• 35:07
  And it was amazing. I'm so happy that I had an opportunity to see what it was like to have lots of attorneys, multiple attorneys and multiple staff and all of that. It was very fun. But the thought of growing and expanding to multiple states was super fun. I could have done it.
• 35:22
  But again, where I was at my life, I just thought, I don't want to do that. I want to have more fun, enjoy my work and my life. And you know what? I'm making more money now than I ever not only as my gross revenue, my profits are up. It was a good decision.
• 35:40
  Davina: Decision. There probably would have been a fix if you wanted to continue growing. But for you that fix was different, right? So you could have. Yeah, could have made a lot more because there are a lot of people out there who own large law firms who make a lot of money more than their staff done more than their attorney.
• 35:58
  No, I
• 35:58
  Rachel: thought it not normal. Right? I recognize that right away. Most of the time I was making more money. It was just this one particular thing when I was like, gosh, this is if you take my hourly rate, right, like how much I'm actually bringing home for how many hours I'm working, it ended up.
• 36:12
  Of course, I made more than my staff did. I just was working more than the eight hours a day. So I could have. And actually yesterday, I was talking to somebody and they said, well, don't you want to grow? Don't you want to expand?
• 36:25
  I know that I say millennial a lot, but I've sort of grasped, I pushed back so much on being a millennial and now I embrace it. The millennial in me doesn't want to be tied down to just being a lawyer. So I love what I have. I make a fabulous living. I do very well.
• 36:39
  I love all of my cases and my clients. But I have the flexibility to go invest in real estate and do these other side hustle kind of things that also bring me a lot of joy. And I think for coming back to work life balance, that really allows me to be a better lawyer because I'm not living this very stressful life twenty four hours a day. And for me, the thought of making 5,000,010 million dollars a year you know, in my own pocket, that's cool. But like, what am I going to do with it?
• 37:11
  I don't need it all. Would much rather be able to go for a run-in the morning and take some vacations when I want to.
• 37:17
  Davina: Well, and you still have a staff of sick. You know, like how many of those are attorneys? Or any of them attorneys or they not
• 37:23
  Rachel: right now. Right now, don't have an again. I'm trying to find an attorney that will love. So they
• 37:28
  Davina: gave us your model, right? So they will even still though you have a good sized staff. So I mean, I think that I say this because a lot of women lawyers listening to this, six people would be big for them. Right? So they're trying to say, well, how do I get the first one, the second one, the third one, do I?
• 37:46
  So six would seem like a lot. So to be twice that size and then choose to come back. So I'm just like putting it in relation to, six is still good. I mean, you're still running a good size small firm, right? Still making money.
• 38:03
  Rachel: I think for everybody that is listening that is on the fence on should I hire, should I hire? One of the things this is everybody runs their business differently. But one of the things that I've always looked at is it's going to take me six months of salary for this person to become profitable for the firm. So I always look at it. Do I have six months of salary in reserves and am I going to be patient enough to let this person work through six months pretty much at a loss to the company?
• 38:32
  Because once I get there, they're going to create a profit for the firm and give away all of the jobs that you don't want to. It took me a really long time to not feel bad for the fact that I don't know where the envelopes are in my office. I would feel so silly and guilty if I didn't know some of these kind of mundane tasks around the office, but I didn't want to know them. I don't care where the envelopes are. Put the envelopes wherever you want them to be.
• 39:00
  And I gave away for every single person that I've hired. I've given away the jobs that I don't care for. And it makes hiring and living through that six month time period a lot easier because at least you're not doing the stuff that you don't like anymore. And it frees up some of your own time until you can ramp up and have that person profitable and with a fully supported job description.
• 39:26
  Davina: I am a big proponent of having team and having staff and having people because, like, I'm not the best person for every job in my business. In fact, I'm probably not the best person for most of the jobs in my business. When you start doing for yourself though, you do things and you learn things and whatever. So I'm a big proponent of hiring and in my business, in this coaching business, I have a large team, but it's not in the coaching area. It's in other areas that I don't really like that I want a lot of support in because I don't want to learn it.
• 39:58
  I don't want run my Facebook ads. I want somebody else to do it and give me good results. And I actually have a background in copywriting and design, web design, all of that. I got a degree. So, I literally know but still, I'm like, I don't want to design a website.
• 40:13
  I want somebody else to do these things for me. Right? Much to your point there. Right? And I did for years do mine because I did it the hard way, the way everybody I started out.
• 40:22
  I had a finite amount of money, so I did what I had skills to do. That was part of my marketing initiative, you know, when I started. So where you start is often different where you wind up. But we're if you're looking to grow to a point where you create more time freedom, which when I pulled members of my group on Facebook and asked them, why did you start your law firm? The large majority of them started their law firm because they wanted flexibility.
• 40:47
  And it's because they're parents, they're mothers, quite frankly, and they wanted to have the flexibility. They needed it. A traditional law firm could not give them what they wanted, and that's why they started doing it. And so I'm just a huge advocate that you can do that and make a really good living too. You don't have to do that and stay at $50,000 a year.
• 41:08
  You can do that and make a lot of That's kind of what I'm on a mission to about. It's like, you can have that work life balance and not suffer financially.
• 41:18
  Rachel: Well, exactly. And like for my team, again, my goal when I kind of revamped was to make sure that every single person that works for me had a very specific role within representation of clients that are going to trial. Now, not all of our cases go to trial. I'm still a big advocate of settlements. But I think the better you are at trial, the more likely you are to settle and the better settlement you're going to get.
• 41:40
  So I made sure that every single person I hired added something to that. And the result is that if I am in trial, I have to be in person in court. But really the rest of what goes on, I don't have to be there. And if I'm on vacation and I turn off my cell phone, all of the people in the background are still generating an income for the firm. Or I get to be in New York.
• 42:06
  I went to New York a couple of, I guess, couple of weeks ago. And I got to earn my money while I was on the Upper East Side in Central Park reviewing some letters and signing some things. And that's amazing. So I don't think there has to be a compromise. And having people support you in your company, again, that profit idea, not only do they start increasing the money that the company makes because they are billable, but they're freeing up your time.
• 42:34
  So now you have more free time and you're making more money off of other people, and that is like a gold mine.
• 42:41
  Davina: Yeah. Yeah. And this is something you knew at 16 with your swim club your baby city club and your swim. I love that you leverage other people for this. You weren't just doing the work.
• 42:51
  You were like Okay.
• 42:52
  Rachel: The spoiler alert is that I really read that Tom Sawyer Huckleberry Finn book very seriously, and I learned from Tom Sawyer that if I have to whitewash a fence and you can pay other people to do it, why in the world would
• 43:05
  Davina: I know I do. I read that book, but I did not take that to her. I missed that lesson in that book. I would be the one painting the fence because I'm definitely the person like, I'm just gonna get in here and do it myself. And that's what I had to overcome was that high achieving woman.
• 43:22
  Like, I'm gonna go do everything myself. And when you get to running a business, you literally cannot do everything yourself and grow at the same time. You have to got some support if you want something that's sustainable and long term and all of that kind of thing. So I appreciate you sharing your story with us today. It's been so fun talking with you.
• 43:40
  I love your top. She's wearing this gorgeous top that's got lots of showmanship to it. There's some sparkle. There's some fur. I love everything about it.
• 43:49
  Yeah. So tell us how we can connect with you. I follow you on Instagram. That's how we met. But tell us how we can follow you, connect with you, learn more about you.
• 43:57
  Rachel: I'm on all of the socials at the lawyer king. So TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, all of them over there. And that will have all of my contact information. I'm on YouTube.
• 44:08
  Davina: I'd love a subscribe, a follow, a like, reach out with any questions. I'm happy to help how I can. I also want say that the name of your firm, The Lawyer King is, I absolutely love it. That's what caught my attention and following. So, I'm like, who is this the Lawyer King?
• 44:24
  That's so interesting. And then I saw your name was King. I'm like, oh, that's just brilliant. It's a fabulous name and it fits with your wonderful litigation work that you're doing out there. So thanks for being here and being on the Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast.
• 44:37
  Rachel: Yes. Thank you so much for having me. I always am happy to talk and I'm a lawyer, so we love talking about what's going on.
• 44:45
  Intro: If you're ready to create more of what you truly desire in your business and your life, then you'll want to visit us at wealthywomanlawyer.com to learn more about how we help our clients create wealth generating law firms with ease.