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How do the Pirates approach September if the skid continues? · Bucco Territory: A Pittsburgh Pirates Podcast

0:10
Speaker 1: What's up, everybody.
0:11
Speaker 2: Welcome back to another episode of Bucco Territory, presented to
0:13
Speaker 2: you by the Foul Territory Network.
0:15
Speaker 1: I'm Noah Hiles.
0:16
Speaker 2: Joining me as always are my co hosts Platinum Key
0:18
Speaker 2: AKA Mark and Josh Harrison.
0:20
Speaker 1: It's Wednesday, August twelfth.
0:21
Speaker 2: The Pirates began a three game series in Miami Tuesday evening.
0:26
Speaker 2: We are recording this Tuesday afternoon, so we don't know
0:29
Speaker 2: what happened. Regardless of what happened, even if if they
0:32
Speaker 2: won or lost, it's not really changing much about where
0:35
Speaker 2: they are right now. It comes down to winning series
0:38
Speaker 2: for them. They are in a position now where essentially
0:42
Speaker 2: to make the playoffs, and we kind of said this
0:43
Speaker 2: on last show episode.
0:45
Speaker 1: They're gonna have to win pretty much every series they play.
0:48
Speaker 2: And if you don't win a series, if you win
0:51
Speaker 2: one and lose two, then you're gonna have to sweep
0:53
Speaker 2: the next one. You're gonna have to win about two
0:55
Speaker 2: thirds of your games to really feel secure to get
0:57
Speaker 2: into the postseason.
0:59
Speaker 1: That's gonna be a tough thing to do for this team.
1:02
Speaker 2: So we're going to talk about just I guess talk
1:05
Speaker 2: more about the state of where they are, how they're
1:08
Speaker 2: in the midst of yet another collapse, and kind of
1:11
Speaker 2: keep hammering that point home because that's what we're witnessing
1:13
Speaker 2: right now again, even if they want Tuesday night, that's
1:16
Speaker 2: still kind of what's happening.
1:17
Speaker 1: Until it's not.
1:18
Speaker 2: We're gonna talk about O'Neal Cruz. He should be back
1:21
Speaker 2: sometime this week, maybe this weekend. Pirates fans should hope
1:24
Speaker 2: to see him back this weekend, what kind of impact
1:27
Speaker 2: he can have, And then we will wrap it up
1:29
Speaker 2: by talking about the month of September, which is still
1:32
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks away. But if this continues to
1:35
Speaker 2: go the way it's going, what do the Pirates do
1:38
Speaker 2: and how do they go about September? Do they keep
1:40
Speaker 2: fighting or do they wave the white flag? So guys,
1:42
Speaker 2: we'll start now with just this. I wrote a column
1:46
Speaker 2: that ran Monday. It was he got a lot of attention.
1:51
Speaker 2: Just late season collapses are what the Pirates do best.
1:53
Speaker 2: We talked about this a little on the show on
1:56
Speaker 2: Monday Show. How I kind of brought it up to
1:59
Speaker 2: Josh like it kind of was like eleven and twelve
2:01
Speaker 2: and sixteen through eighteen and Mark, obviously you were a
2:05
Speaker 2: diehard fan by the twenty twenty fourth season, and you
2:07
Speaker 2: know what that felt like, and it feels like this
2:10
Speaker 2: is happening once again. It's a little different because this team,
2:13
Speaker 2: on paper was much easier to believe in than the
2:16
Speaker 2: twenty twenty fourth team. Twenty eighteen was a little unique
2:21
Speaker 2: because that was the season after they traded away Garrett,
2:25
Speaker 2: Cole and Cutch, So it felt like there was a
2:27
Speaker 2: nucleus of guys that were trying and that you could
2:29
Speaker 2: believe them themselves. But it felt like the organization didn't
2:32
Speaker 2: really believe in the team really from the very beginning
2:36
Speaker 2: until it did, and then it tried to overcompensate by
2:39
Speaker 2: making one really aggressive trade and it didn't go well.
2:43
Speaker 2: Sixteen and seventeen, there was the belief, but it maybe
2:46
Speaker 2: was a wrong belief, like they got too high on
2:50
Speaker 2: their own supply and probably set your teams up to
2:54
Speaker 2: be in a position that wasn't as advantageous as it
2:57
Speaker 2: could have been. But this year, I mean it was optimistic.
3:01
Speaker 2: They made some really good roster additions, and if entering
3:05
Speaker 2: the year, if I would have told you that this
3:08
Speaker 2: was the offensive production that this lineup would.
3:10
Speaker 1: Have received, you would have never guessed.
3:12
Speaker 2: That the pitching would have been this bad and kind
3:15
Speaker 2: of caused them to fall apart.
3:17
Speaker 1: We would have expected the defensive woes.
3:19
Speaker 2: I think maybe we would have expected the bullpen to
3:21
Speaker 2: be worse than it was last year, But I don't
3:24
Speaker 2: think we would have expected to see the rotation reduced
3:27
Speaker 2: into what it's become and the bullpen to be that
3:32
Speaker 2: bad and just for it to kind of fall apart
3:35
Speaker 2: like it has in the final week of July now
3:37
Speaker 2: seven times in the last what sixteen years something like that. So, Mark,
3:45
Speaker 2: I'll just start with you as a fan, like, is
3:48
Speaker 2: it like it's got to be just hard to believe
3:52
Speaker 2: that it's happening again, right, just because it just it
3:56
Speaker 2: can go so quickly, it can just vanish away, just
3:58
Speaker 2: like you look at the Reds. It's been the inverse
4:01
Speaker 2: for them, like their season was over and then it sparks.
4:04
Speaker 2: But it's just hard to believe that both things can
4:08
Speaker 2: happen at the same time, that you can fall apart
4:10
Speaker 2: and then catch magic.
4:12
Speaker 1: So I mean, are you feeling.
4:13
Speaker 2: Any better now after an off day or is it
4:17
Speaker 2: just really kind of sinking in that, like, hey, this
4:19
Speaker 2: is the reality.
4:20
Speaker 3: Though, yeah, it's more the latter. It's definitely like just
4:23
Speaker 3: sinking in that. Yeah, this season has just gone off
4:27
Speaker 3: the rails yet again. I mean the fact that they
4:30
Speaker 3: lost nearly forty percent of their playoff odds in fifteen
4:33
Speaker 3: days is that that's a punch to the gut. So
4:38
Speaker 3: as a fan, you're like, you're trying to still like,
4:40
Speaker 3: you know, there's still a chance they could still string
4:42
Speaker 3: together some wins. It's baseball. Things can happen quickly both ways,
4:45
Speaker 3: like you said, But at the same time, the bats
4:49
Speaker 3: have fallen off, the pitching's falling off all of a sudden,
4:51
Speaker 3: the bullpen is like maybe when I'm most confident in
4:56
Speaker 3: it's a weird feeling, like we traded for Luke Weaver
4:59
Speaker 3: and he's appeared in what one game?
5:01
Speaker 1: Now use them?
5:04
Speaker 2: Yeah?
5:04
Speaker 3: They had like he literally just hasn't been They haven't
5:07
Speaker 3: been able to use him, and so it's so frustrating
5:11
Speaker 3: because there was so much talent. There is so much
5:13
Speaker 3: talent on this team. They have I think like the
5:15
Speaker 3: sixth most war like F War and baseball. They have
5:18
Speaker 3: more f War than the Cubs. But we're below five
5:22
Speaker 3: hundred and not even in like a wild card spot
5:25
Speaker 3: right now, So who cares about how much talent there is,
5:28
Speaker 3: they just haven't been able to piece it together. And
5:30
Speaker 3: so that's been the most frustrating part is on paper,
5:33
Speaker 3: you'd think with this kind of offense, they should be
5:37
Speaker 3: competing for a playoff spot in the thick of it.
5:39
Speaker 3: And so the fact that yet again it's just like,
5:42
Speaker 3: is this franchise curse? Like was PNC Park built on
5:45
Speaker 3: like Indian burial grounds or something like it? Just how
5:48
Speaker 3: can this keep happening? Things have to break for the
5:51
Speaker 3: Pirates in our favor at one point, right like one
5:54
Speaker 3: of these years things have to click, and you thought
5:56
Speaker 3: this year may have been that year with how much
6:00
Speaker 3: I mean, there's still more talent on this roster than
6:02
Speaker 3: there's been a long time. So things are bleak. Uh
6:08
Speaker 3: need a bit a big, big series against the Marlins
6:10
Speaker 3: otherwise it's uh, it's there's not a lot of people
6:14
Speaker 3: are going to be hanging in there.
6:17
Speaker 1: Yeah.
6:19
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was just gonna say, you speak on talent.
6:25
Speaker 4: Talent is one thing, and coming to this, you know,
6:28
Speaker 4: the beginning of the season, offense was addressed. You know,
6:32
Speaker 4: from the previous year, you know, offense was pretty much
6:35
Speaker 4: non existent, and you know we knew coming into the
6:39
Speaker 4: season defense was going to be a challenge, but was
6:41
Speaker 4: hoping that offense was going to be able to outweigh
6:43
Speaker 4: that with pitching. But what you've gotten is, you know,
6:47
Speaker 4: the pitching has been inconsistent, both starting and relieving. So
6:51
Speaker 4: when the offense has you know, kind of hit his
6:53
Speaker 4: dry spell, it just hasn't looked like a good brand
6:57
Speaker 4: of baseball. And here it was early part of the season.
7:00
Speaker 4: You know, offense was clicking, pitching was you know, doing
7:04
Speaker 4: what it could to stay in the game, and you
7:05
Speaker 4: know the bullpen wasn't clicking.
7:07
Speaker 5: So at some point it's like you need all.
7:09
Speaker 4: Three phases, you know, to to work together, and unfortunately
7:14
Speaker 4: you just haven't had that this year. And you don't
7:16
Speaker 4: want to be in a position you look at, you know,
7:19
Speaker 4: how many games that they've lost that they could have
7:20
Speaker 4: potentially won.
7:22
Speaker 5: Yes, you you you.
7:24
Speaker 4: Sit here and say, man, for me, it is reminiscent
7:28
Speaker 4: of some of those eleven and twelve years when when
7:31
Speaker 4: we were you know, in a position, you know, late July,
7:35
Speaker 4: early August, and then you know, things happened really quickly.
7:37
Speaker 4: And when you have teams like this, unfortunately you go
7:42
Speaker 4: through spells like this where some teams just need to
7:45
Speaker 4: learn how to win.
7:46
Speaker 5: But I think some of these.
7:49
Speaker 4: These games that they needed to learn to win were
7:51
Speaker 4: not necessarily them needing to learn to win. It was
7:54
Speaker 4: them needing to learn how to control, you know, the
7:57
Speaker 4: moment of the game and not you know, make those
7:59
Speaker 4: mental mistakes. And sometimes you'll have that when you have
8:03
Speaker 4: some inconsistencies where you got guys plan out of position,
8:05
Speaker 4: you got some injuries. But you know, at this point
8:09
Speaker 4: of the season, those can't really be excuses. And unfortunately,
8:13
Speaker 4: as I said, they just haven't pitched well, they haven't
8:16
Speaker 4: played defense well, and they haven't hit well, especially in
8:19
Speaker 4: these moments where it really matters, where every game matters.
8:21
Speaker 4: But when you're down to the last six weeks, there's
8:24
Speaker 4: no more no more room for error, I should say so.
8:28
Speaker 5: And that's that's that's who they are.
8:30
Speaker 1: That's the point that I was going to make.
8:32
Speaker 2: It's just like and that is just the reality of
8:34
Speaker 2: this organization. The way that they've performed in the past,
8:38
Speaker 2: and the way that they've behaved in the past when
8:40
Speaker 2: it came to operating in the off season, and just
8:43
Speaker 2: the decisions they've made. They've given themselves very little wig
8:47
Speaker 2: will room.
8:48
Speaker 1: Yep, they've made it.
8:49
Speaker 2: Harder for themselves to acquire talent in recent years, and.
8:53
Speaker 1: Now this is the first year where they've.
8:56
Speaker 2: Behaved with a true competitor's mindset, And you can even
9:00
Speaker 2: argue that that's a stretch.
9:02
Speaker 1: Like their payroll still is.
9:04
Speaker 2: It just isn't high enough to where a team in
9:07
Speaker 2: that market size that's actually serious about winning can get
9:11
Speaker 2: there now if you want to spend more money and
9:13
Speaker 2: build it up and then reduce it once you're confident
9:17
Speaker 2: that your analytics department can continue developing these young studs
9:21
Speaker 2: and live a little bit below the budget like we've see.
9:25
Speaker 2: We've seen Cleveland do that, We've seen Tampa do that,
9:28
Speaker 2: like the A's did that for so long. Hell, the
9:30
Speaker 2: Pirates tried to do that when Josh was there, right,
9:33
Speaker 2: they built it up, and then they thought they had
9:35
Speaker 2: it all figured out and we can we can money
9:37
Speaker 2: ball this, and then it turns out.
9:38
Speaker 1: So, I mean, sometimes you're right.
9:39
Speaker 2: Sometimes you do have the game figured out and you
9:42
Speaker 2: have your formula right and you could stay ahead of
9:44
Speaker 2: the curve, but that's not always a guarantee. And the
9:47
Speaker 2: Pirates for a very long time. It really comes back
9:52
Speaker 2: to what they did after the twenty twenty four season.
9:55
Speaker 2: The fact that they did not add anything to that team.
10:00
Speaker 2: The twenty twenty four season should have been their twenty eleven. Yeah,
10:03
Speaker 2: it should have been their first little taste. You had
10:06
Speaker 2: your young core up there, like they were a little
10:09
Speaker 2: competitive in twenty three, but by July they were out
10:12
Speaker 2: of it. Twenty twenty four was their first year. They
10:14
Speaker 2: bought it the deadline, but they ran out of gas.
10:17
Speaker 2: But they had they had their formula. It was that rotation,
10:21
Speaker 2: and that rotation was so cheap, and they could have
10:24
Speaker 2: made a loud trade then they could have made no
10:27
Speaker 2: hern signing then, and they did nothing. They just bet
10:31
Speaker 2: on these guys to get better. And that was a
10:35
Speaker 2: wasted year. And now that wasted year kills this team
10:40
Speaker 2: because you don't know if you're gonna have Ryan o'hearan
10:42
Speaker 2: next year, you don't know if there's gonna be baseball
10:45
Speaker 2: next year, you don't know if there's gonna be something
10:47
Speaker 2: to build from next year.
10:49
Speaker 1: And if you had just taken last.
10:52
Speaker 2: Year a little bit more seriously, and I'm not saying
10:55
Speaker 2: that to the front office.
10:56
Speaker 1: The front office did what they could, but the.
10:59
Speaker 2: Only re these investments and these more aggressive trades at
11:04
Speaker 2: the deadline and even in the off season.
11:06
Speaker 1: Happened was because twenty twenty five.
11:08
Speaker 2: Was an embarrassment, and it shouldn't have taken an embarrassment
11:12
Speaker 2: for a franchise to get off its ass and do
11:16
Speaker 2: a little bit more. To be humiliated by off field
11:21
Speaker 2: gaffs pr mistakes on the field, having to fire their
11:25
Speaker 2: manager that early, having so many just embarrassing headline after
11:28
Speaker 2: embarrassing headline, getting absolutely embarrassed in press conferences at the
11:33
Speaker 2: end of the season. It shouldn't have taken all of
11:36
Speaker 2: those things, plus potentially a lockout on the horizon and
11:40
Speaker 2: some incentive from the commissioner's office that go a little
11:43
Speaker 2: further for you to.
11:44
Speaker 1: Want it a little bit more.
11:46
Speaker 2: And yeah, when you try, your odds are better, but
11:50
Speaker 2: it just goes to show everyone else is trying as.
11:53
Speaker 1: Hard as the Pirates.
11:54
Speaker 2: Yeah tried this year, and they've been trying, not everyone,
11:58
Speaker 2: but the teams that you're competing with, the Diamondbacks, the Padres,
12:02
Speaker 2: they've all been trying like this for years, and some
12:06
Speaker 2: of them already inherently have more resources than you. So
12:10
Speaker 2: you're gonna have to expect that it's maybe not gonna work.
12:14
Speaker 2: The first time you do this.
12:16
Speaker 1: And that's dejecting because I still think there is a
12:20
Speaker 1: bright future here.
12:21
Speaker 2: I mean, you look like the pitching's going nowhere, Connor
12:24
Speaker 2: Griffin's gonna be here. There are good prospects on the horizon,
12:28
Speaker 2: but you're really only losing law. But who's to say
12:33
Speaker 2: they're gonna match that level of investment Again, that's what's dejecting.
12:36
Speaker 1: It's well, they went all in and the attendance only
12:39
Speaker 1: went up so much, like.
12:42
Speaker 2: Who knows, and they've just given themselves such a small
12:48
Speaker 2: margin of error. And when you have that small margin
12:52
Speaker 2: of error and something goes wrong, there's nothing you can
12:56
Speaker 2: do to fix it. And too much went wrong for
12:58
Speaker 2: them this year. And that's spend the case in prior
13:01
Speaker 2: collapses too. They did not have a large margin of
13:04
Speaker 2: air in twenty twenty four or even I think the
13:08
Speaker 2: first couple collapses during Josh's time eleven and twelve, they
13:12
Speaker 2: were building up to something, and then they built up
13:14
Speaker 2: the thirteen through.
13:15
Speaker 1: Fifteen, But then after that it's like, yeah, they stopped.
13:18
Speaker 1: They stopped building and they were just cool with trying
13:22
Speaker 1: to get some lucky breaks and sneak in into the
13:24
Speaker 1: wild card. Because they felt they had that foundation that
13:26
Speaker 1: was good enough and were this case.
13:30
Speaker 2: They still haven't built it yet and they're building forward,
13:34
Speaker 2: but you can't just expect it to all work out.
13:37
Speaker 1: And that's kind of the story of this year's team.
13:40
Speaker 2: So, unless you guys have anything to add, real quick,
13:42
Speaker 2: I think we're good on this.
13:43
Speaker 1: Yep, good, all right, We're gonna take a.
13:46
Speaker 2: Quick break when we come back. O'Neil Cruz will be
13:49
Speaker 2: joining the team sometime this week. Probably we're gonna talk
13:51
Speaker 2: about what he could do to help the pirates next year.
13:53
Speaker 1: On Bucco Territory.
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Speaker 2: Sorry, I was taking a drink out of my water bottle.
15:00
Speaker 2: I thought there's a little bit more from our pals.
15:01
Speaker 2: Got brund there, all right, Onneil Cruz. He'll be back
15:04
Speaker 2: sometime this week. The pirates could use some offense. Uh,
15:09
Speaker 2: they could just use any help anywhere. We've seen Spencer
15:14
Speaker 2: kind of struggle. Yeah, we've seen Spencer kind of struggle
15:17
Speaker 2: a little bit since coming back, because that is tough. Josh,
15:21
Speaker 2: you've probably been in that spot where the boys are
15:24
Speaker 2: scuffling without you.
15:26
Speaker 1: You want to get back, you know, you need to
15:27
Speaker 1: get back.
15:28
Speaker 2: Can you just speak to how difficult that is to
15:32
Speaker 2: you know, have that weighing on you.
15:34
Speaker 1: You see your team struggling.
15:36
Speaker 2: You you know you're a better team when you're out there,
15:40
Speaker 2: but you need to get out there when you're physically
15:43
Speaker 2: able to help.
15:44
Speaker 1: Talk about that.
15:49
Speaker 4: Unfortunately, I dealt with that one too many times.
15:53
Speaker 5: And it's it's an internal.
15:56
Speaker 4: Struggle because one you you know, you want to get
16:00
Speaker 4: back and help your team, but so you want to
16:03
Speaker 4: make sure you're healthy and good to go, but at
16:05
Speaker 4: the same time being a competitor. I know myself, I
16:11
Speaker 4: was never one hundred percent when I came back, and
16:14
Speaker 4: I'm sure most most people are probably closer to one hundred.
16:16
Speaker 4: Some people are gonna come back when they feel they're
16:18
Speaker 4: good to go. Everybody's paying tolerance is different and knowing
16:22
Speaker 4: their bodies, and there's a difference bent injured in being hurt,
16:25
Speaker 4: and you know, you want to check a lot of
16:28
Speaker 4: different boxes when you're doing these, you know, rehab games
16:31
Speaker 4: and you're working your way back, because they're gonna be
16:34
Speaker 4: things a lot of people you know on the outside
16:37
Speaker 4: don't really think about. And it's more than just getting
16:39
Speaker 4: that bad and you know, running basis, especially you know,
16:43
Speaker 4: on the defensive side. I can remember a couple of
16:47
Speaker 4: cases where I tour my UCL ligament and my thumb
16:49
Speaker 4: and then I broke my hand twice. So it was
16:53
Speaker 4: more than just base you know, base running and hitting.
16:56
Speaker 4: I had to you know, make the catch and make tags,
16:59
Speaker 4: impact other ways that you know affect you.
17:02
Speaker 5: Know, a hand injury.
17:03
Speaker 4: So in O'Neill's case, he plays the outfield. But at
17:06
Speaker 4: the same time, there's differences where you know, impact of
17:10
Speaker 4: the ball on certain hard hit balls, running to the wall,
17:13
Speaker 4: maybe having to brace yourself. There's more ways than just
17:17
Speaker 4: swinging a bat and being on a basis, and you
17:20
Speaker 4: want to check these boxes. And I know at one
17:25
Speaker 4: point I had came back from I think a broken hand.
17:28
Speaker 4: The boys were struggling a little bit, and I remember
17:30
Speaker 4: coming back after like three rehab games from like I
17:33
Speaker 4: think I was slated at six to eight weeks on
17:35
Speaker 4: the broken hand. I think about week five I was back, like,
17:38
Speaker 4: you know what, the doctor said, it's not going to
17:40
Speaker 4: break again. You know, it's you know, past that point
17:43
Speaker 4: of being able to be broken. And I'm like, as
17:46
Speaker 4: long as I can wear a protective hand thing now,
17:50
Speaker 4: you know, put me in there, and I remember coming
17:52
Speaker 4: back getting to hits the first game and you know,
17:55
Speaker 4: gave the team a little little boost, and I still
17:58
Speaker 4: needed to catch up to the speed the MLB game.
18:00
Speaker 5: I was out five weeks.
18:01
Speaker 4: But at the same time, you know, sometimes when you
18:05
Speaker 4: get one of your pieces back, you know them at
18:08
Speaker 4: eighty eighty five percent, you know, is better than what
18:12
Speaker 4: the team has been thrown out there. And that's no
18:13
Speaker 4: knock to the young guys, but that's just you know,
18:15
Speaker 4: a piece that you were counting on, just the physical
18:18
Speaker 4: presence of them being in there. That's somebody that the
18:21
Speaker 4: other team is like, Okay, we know what this guy
18:23
Speaker 4: can do, and if he's back, you know there's something
18:25
Speaker 4: in there that could still potentially be you know, a
18:29
Speaker 4: lifting moment for this team, and you don't want them
18:31
Speaker 4: to get hot. So I know he's trying to cross
18:33
Speaker 4: every box to make sure when he gets back that
18:35
Speaker 4: you know, he can play the last six weeks and hopefully,
18:38
Speaker 4: you know, helped his team, and especially at this time
18:40
Speaker 4: because my first time coming back was fifteen and we
18:43
Speaker 4: we had actually acquired a Ramas Ramiers, so that actually helped,
18:47
Speaker 4: you know, But you know, I came back from a
18:49
Speaker 4: thumb surgery within week five or six, and you know
18:53
Speaker 4: it took a full year for but I was like.
18:55
Speaker 5: You know, what if I can put the bat on
18:57
Speaker 5: the ball and I.
18:58
Speaker 4: Can you know, play through the pain, you know, I'm
19:00
Speaker 4: out there and I mean we went to the wildcard
19:03
Speaker 4: unfortunately lost, but you know there was something to play for,
19:07
Speaker 4: and you know, if you can be eighty eighty five percent,
19:10
Speaker 4: because once everybody leaves spring training, nobody's ever.
19:12
Speaker 5: One hundred percent anyway.
19:13
Speaker 4: So yeah, when people say you got to be one
19:15
Speaker 4: hundred percent, that that's not going to happen.
19:17
Speaker 5: You play too many games, you change too many cities.
19:20
Speaker 4: So once you get to that point to where you've
19:22
Speaker 4: crossed off those you know, minor details that kind of
19:25
Speaker 4: get overlooked, like impact with the wall and stuff. You know,
19:29
Speaker 4: I think he's going to be like, all right, I'm
19:30
Speaker 4: good to go and whatever I get in the speed
19:33
Speaker 4: of the game. You're gonna have more adrenaline in the
19:34
Speaker 4: big leagues too, So that helps as well.
19:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, Mark, I mean, what are you looking to see
19:41
Speaker 2: frimonial cruise when he comes back?
19:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, just this team needs help against lefties.
19:47
Speaker 3: O'Neill was finally really hitting left as well, so that
19:51
Speaker 3: kind of impact, but also just what he brings to
19:54
Speaker 3: the base pass. He is just going to cause chaos.
20:00
Speaker 3: We need that speed right now. If we want to
20:02
Speaker 3: get this offense going, maybe small ball is the best
20:05
Speaker 3: way to start getting things back going. Uh, get people
20:08
Speaker 3: in the rhythm again. And so having O'Neil Cruz on
20:11
Speaker 3: the base pass to play that small ball, get him
20:14
Speaker 3: a couple of steals, you know, go first to third,
20:16
Speaker 3: whatever you need from him. That's what I'm looking forward
20:19
Speaker 3: to getting him back. We'll see about like where they
20:23
Speaker 3: play him. I'm curious if he's gonna like resume center field,
20:27
Speaker 3: how much they're going to play maingam if they want
20:29
Speaker 3: to d him when he gets back. So I'm curious
20:32
Speaker 3: to see how they get him into the lineup. But
20:35
Speaker 3: I'm very excited to have him back, because boy, does
20:38
Speaker 3: this offense need a big shot in the arm, like
20:40
Speaker 3: a six foot seven side shot, and I think O'Neil
20:43
Speaker 3: Cruz can deliver that.
20:45
Speaker 5: Yeah, they.
20:48
Speaker 4: Mm hmm, yes, And I will say whether he's d
20:51
Speaker 4: h and where wherever you put him. As you mentioned,
20:55
Speaker 4: Spencer came back struggling a little bit. As you continue
20:57
Speaker 4: to piece the lineup and put pieces back in, and
21:00
Speaker 4: it can take a little bit of pressure off.
21:02
Speaker 5: Even though he's missed some games. As you mentioned, he.
21:05
Speaker 4: Was swinging it against lefties, and you hope he, you know,
21:07
Speaker 4: gets back to that form. But you know, just being
21:10
Speaker 4: able to slide one of your pieces back in can
21:12
Speaker 4: kind of maybe give the guys a little room and say,
21:15
Speaker 4: all right, let's take a deep breath and now we
21:17
Speaker 4: got you know, another guy back and hopefully that as
21:20
Speaker 4: you said, Linthden the lineup a little bit more.
21:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, you depended too much on Esmerlin Valdez, Ronnie Simon
21:27
Speaker 2: and Jared Triolo. Like it helps to get Spencer and
21:30
Speaker 2: O'Neill back, and even if they're not what they are,
21:34
Speaker 2: they're much tougher out compared to everyone else, and it's
21:39
Speaker 2: just I think it'll help.
21:41
Speaker 1: Yep. All right, we're gonna take another quick break.
21:43
Speaker 2: Then we will round out our show today talking about
21:46
Speaker 2: the month of September here on Bucke Territory.
21:49
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22:52
Speaker 2: All right, let's call spatas Bade. The Pirates are playing
22:55
Speaker 2: the Marlins this week. After that they have the Red Sox.
22:57
Speaker 2: They get a little bit of a break against the Tigers,
23:00
Speaker 2: although they struggle against bad teams too. Right now, then
23:03
Speaker 2: they get the Dodgers and the Padres and the Cardinals
23:06
Speaker 2: on the road to end the month of August. That
23:09
Speaker 2: is a brutal stretch, especially for a team that has
23:13
Speaker 2: not won a series since their first series post All
23:17
Speaker 2: Star Break.
23:18
Speaker 1: It's been about a month.
23:19
Speaker 3: Yep.
23:21
Speaker 2: Not trying to be doom and gloom here, but let's
23:24
Speaker 2: call it like it is. It's probably not gonna go well.
23:28
Speaker 2: It would be very easy to believe it doesn't go well.
23:31
Speaker 2: Assuming it does go poorly when you get to the
23:34
Speaker 2: month of September.
23:35
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna throw out some names and ask.
23:37
Speaker 2: You, guys, what do you do with these people when
23:42
Speaker 2: you get to the month of September. We'll start off
23:45
Speaker 2: with Connor Griffin. Connor Griffin, if he's healthy, do you
23:48
Speaker 2: bother playing him at all in the final month of
23:51
Speaker 2: the season, Josh, I want to hear your thoughts on this.
23:56
Speaker 4: I mean, he's so young, twenty years old. If there's
24:01
Speaker 4: nothing to play for. Just from personal experience, I've had
24:06
Speaker 4: three hand injuries, two broken hands, screwing my thumb and
24:11
Speaker 4: work my way back obviously in the middle of the season,
24:13
Speaker 4: sometimes towards later in the season. But if it's not
24:16
Speaker 4: worth it, hand injuries can be tricky. As I said,
24:18
Speaker 4: there's so many things that go into it. And obviously
24:22
Speaker 4: you want your you know, young superstar that you hope
24:26
Speaker 4: to be the face of the franchise to come back
24:28
Speaker 4: and you know, show just what he can do, especially
24:30
Speaker 4: in the last month.
24:32
Speaker 5: But at the same time, it's got to make sense.
24:34
Speaker 4: I'm not a big fan of putting people out there,
24:37
Speaker 4: you know, if they're not you know, fully ready to
24:40
Speaker 4: go where there could.
24:40
Speaker 5: Be more injury.
24:43
Speaker 4: And yes, you want to see kinder griffrom play you
24:46
Speaker 4: because he can give this team, as you say, Mark,
24:49
Speaker 4: you know, a shot in the arm and help these guys.
24:51
Speaker 5: But if things aren't going well, what do you really run?
24:57
Speaker 5: What's the point?
24:58
Speaker 4: And I say that because I don't know if you've
25:01
Speaker 4: all watched the series Quarterback on Netflix, and I remember
25:06
Speaker 4: Jayden Dames that was gonna be my you know what
25:09
Speaker 4: I mean.
25:10
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, so the score was out of hand.
25:13
Speaker 4: He was coming back, and it's like we're competitors, We're
25:15
Speaker 4: always gonna want to play. As I said myself, you know,
25:18
Speaker 4: coming back well ahead of you know what the slightest
25:21
Speaker 4: time to be out is. But at the same time,
25:23
Speaker 4: you know, you got to weigh the risk versus reward,
25:26
Speaker 4: and if there's not really a chance for playoffs, there
25:30
Speaker 4: are other ways you can have him still be around
25:33
Speaker 4: the team, and they have all these options that you
25:35
Speaker 4: can still make sure he's getting his work in, but
25:37
Speaker 4: without the stress of having to go out here and
25:40
Speaker 4: running the risk of you know what, let's go into
25:43
Speaker 4: next year hopefully there is the next year healthy and
25:46
Speaker 4: not trying to say we want to fulfill making sure
25:49
Speaker 4: you're on your feet and playing these games, because as
25:51
Speaker 4: I said, hand injuries are tricky.
25:55
Speaker 2: Just to build off that real quick Josh, I mean,
25:57
Speaker 2: I think it's also worth remembering this guy had a
25:59
Speaker 2: fore arm injury as.
26:00
Speaker 1: Well this year.
26:01
Speaker 2: Ye, yes, so right, it might not be the worst
26:05
Speaker 2: idea to just let him get some rest.
26:08
Speaker 1: I there were a way.
26:12
Speaker 2: To like maybe just let him hit, but it's still
26:14
Speaker 2: just like if you're hit in the hand with a
26:16
Speaker 2: pitch in September.
26:18
Speaker 1: What are we talking about? Like, what are we what
26:20
Speaker 1: are you doing out there to begin with?
26:22
Speaker 2: And it sucks because there is tangible value I think
26:25
Speaker 2: in just getting him more majorly playing times, you have
26:29
Speaker 2: to really weigh that cost and effect, and it's like
26:31
Speaker 2: he's already been injured twice this year.
26:34
Speaker 1: Are you going to risk a third one that could
26:36
Speaker 1: make you really in a tough spot next year. I
26:39
Speaker 1: don't know, Mark, And.
26:41
Speaker 5: I'll tell you when they know you have hand injuries. Hit.
26:44
Speaker 4: I was just gonna say, when they know you have
26:45
Speaker 4: hand injuries, Scott detective.
26:48
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'll ask you the same question Mark.
26:53
Speaker 2: For Paul Schemes, what's his September look like if they
26:58
Speaker 2: are ten games out of the wild Card?
27:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and the way that, assuming that he's
27:03
Speaker 3: going to continue pitching where you can tell he's clearly struggling,
27:06
Speaker 3: something doesn't seem right. I mean, if there's nothing left
27:10
Speaker 3: to play for, I would fully support shutting him down
27:13
Speaker 3: and saying we tried this year, let's figure let's get
27:17
Speaker 3: a jump start on figuring out what went wrong and
27:20
Speaker 3: how to improve for twenty twenty seven, because I don't
27:22
Speaker 3: think he's going to be able to make those necessary
27:25
Speaker 3: adjustments while he's still pitching in the middle of a season.
27:29
Speaker 3: So the sooner that you can shut him down, the
27:32
Speaker 3: sooner you can hopefully get him right. Maybe I look
27:35
Speaker 3: like an idiot saying this. Maybe he came out against
27:38
Speaker 3: the Marlins and threw seven shutty like innings and looked
27:41
Speaker 3: great effishing again. But the way he's been pitching, I
27:46
Speaker 3: feel like that's probably not going to happen. So yeah,
27:48
Speaker 3: I mean, I think you he's your second most important asset.
27:53
Speaker 3: You first is counter Griffin. You absolutely have to protect
27:55
Speaker 3: counter Griffin if there's nothing to play for. And same
27:59
Speaker 3: thing with Paul. I mean, yeah, it's tough to shut
28:02
Speaker 3: him down. It does not great optics. I'm sure he
28:04
Speaker 3: won't want to get shut down, but if it leads
28:08
Speaker 3: to him getting back to cy young form in twenty
28:11
Speaker 3: twenty seven, I'm all for it.
28:15
Speaker 1: I would probably go a little lesser.
28:17
Speaker 2: I think I would go to a six man rotation
28:19
Speaker 2: in September, since you have that extra roster spot, and
28:22
Speaker 2: just basically map it out and like I would be
28:25
Speaker 2: calling up Harrington, but really anyone stretched out that can
28:29
Speaker 2: give me at least three ups, and I would sit
28:31
Speaker 2: down with everyone and be like, pretty much, every game
28:33
Speaker 2: is gonna be a bullpen game from here on out.
28:35
Speaker 1: We're just gonna focus on getting guys reps like.
28:37
Speaker 2: We're gonna have unless if you're pitching in the back
28:40
Speaker 2: third of a game, We're really gonna try to map
28:43
Speaker 2: it out where you know what your workday is and
28:45
Speaker 2: it's gonna be like spring training in a way where
28:48
Speaker 2: we're gonna get you through this season. We're gonna give
28:50
Speaker 2: you very specific things that we want you to work on,
28:54
Speaker 2: and if those things don't go well, then that's okay.
28:57
Speaker 2: That might be a tough sell because certain guys might
28:59
Speaker 2: be fighting for better numbers for arbitration, for incentive. Uh,
29:06
Speaker 2: but that's at least the plan that I would pitch
29:08
Speaker 2: is just kind of like, hey, it didn't go the
29:12
Speaker 2: way we wanted it to. We need we need to
29:15
Speaker 2: ease you into this offseason and we don't want you
29:18
Speaker 2: to make anything.
29:19
Speaker 1: Worse in this final month.
29:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I feel like that's a realistic and that's
29:25
Speaker 2: a reasonable ask I should say.
29:27
Speaker 1: And then my last I.
29:29
Speaker 4: Think I only shut them down. I was gonna say,
29:31
Speaker 4: I think you only shut them down if like something's hurt,
29:34
Speaker 4: But I don't say to your point, no, like if
29:36
Speaker 4: nothing's hurt yet, just limiting if it's like you're gonna
29:39
Speaker 4: be on a fifty pitch count whatever the case may be,
29:42
Speaker 4: like you say, or eighty whatever, because you still want
29:45
Speaker 4: him to try to work through these struggles. If nothing's hurting.
29:48
Speaker 4: But like, if you know what I mean, so yeah,
29:49
Speaker 4: I'll just say I don't. I don't think it's worth
29:51
Speaker 4: shutting them down unless he something's hurt.
29:54
Speaker 1: All right. My final question here, and this can be
29:57
Speaker 1: for all of us.
29:58
Speaker 2: If it's all if it's a over by September, are
30:02
Speaker 2: you opposed to seeing someone lose their job before the
30:06
Speaker 2: season ends, If it's Charrington, if it's Kelly, if it's
30:10
Speaker 2: Travis Williams. Just considering that come December first, there's going
30:14
Speaker 2: to be a lockout. I don't know if that prevents
30:17
Speaker 2: coaching hires. I don't know if coaches can get hired
30:20
Speaker 2: during lockouts or not. I would assume no because it's
30:23
Speaker 2: it's between the MLPVPA in the league, So I would
30:27
Speaker 2: think coaches should be fine.
30:29
Speaker 1: I think it's very hard to sign up for a job.
30:32
Speaker 4: I could be wrong, Yeah, I could be wrong, but
30:34
Speaker 4: I feel like when we had the situation the previous
30:39
Speaker 4: lockout twenty one, I want to say yeah. I want
30:42
Speaker 4: to say I know, for instance, there's no conversation between
30:45
Speaker 4: players and aidens and teams, but I feel like like
30:50
Speaker 4: organizational hires can still happen as far as that makes
30:54
Speaker 4: sense and stuff, you know what I mean?
30:57
Speaker 2: Now that said, you don't know what your budget's gonna
31:01
Speaker 2: look like because of this, you don't know if you're
31:04
Speaker 2: gonna be paying for a salary floor.
31:07
Speaker 1: You don't know if you're gonna have.
31:09
Speaker 2: More attendance, revenue or share like the market share, like
31:16
Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff is all in flux. And
31:18
Speaker 2: then so that makes it very hard to sign up
31:21
Speaker 2: for a job when you're a GM when you don't
31:23
Speaker 2: know what your payroll budget's gonna be.
31:25
Speaker 1: When you're if you're a new manager, you don't know.
31:29
Speaker 2: What you're supporting staff, what resources are even at your disposal.
31:32
Speaker 2: And if it's a team like the Dodgers or the Yankees,
31:35
Speaker 2: it's like okay, well, like I know what I'm getting.
31:40
Speaker 2: But in a place like Pittsburgh, that's all very circumstantial
31:43
Speaker 2: and it could drastically change depending on how the CBA goes.
31:47
Speaker 2: So that's a tough spot to fill. And do you
31:52
Speaker 2: try to get a head start on it. I wouldn't
31:54
Speaker 2: be opposed to seeing it candidly, like if you know,
31:57
Speaker 2: if the pirates enter September and they know Travis Williams,
32:01
Speaker 2: ben Cherrington, Don Kelly, or really anyone anyone involved if
32:06
Speaker 2: they know they're not going to be back. And the
32:07
Speaker 2: same thing could be said for players at this point too.
32:11
Speaker 1: They're done.
32:12
Speaker 2: They're done if you know someone, if you know someone's
32:15
Speaker 2: not gonna be back on your team as a player,
32:17
Speaker 2: they shouldn't be playing for you in September of twenty
32:19
Speaker 2: twenty six.
32:20
Speaker 1: And that's a harsh reality.
32:22
Speaker 2: But like it don't wait till the final week of
32:24
Speaker 2: the season in DFA them like Rowdy Telez's situation a
32:26
Speaker 2: couple of years ago, but like just sit them down
32:28
Speaker 2: and be like, hey man, we're planning for the future.
32:30
Speaker 1: It is what it is.
32:31
Speaker 2: We could try to get you some at bats if
32:32
Speaker 2: you're close to some incentives, but like we need those
32:35
Speaker 2: reps to go to this guy because he's probably gonna
32:37
Speaker 2: be playing in your spot next year, or those innings
32:40
Speaker 2: to go to this guy like Gregory Soto, for example,
32:44
Speaker 2: would be a guy.
32:44
Speaker 1: It's like, you don't need these innings.
32:46
Speaker 2: We're gonna let someone else get better with those opportunities.
32:51
Speaker 2: But then like coaching and g like if they know
32:56
Speaker 2: if Nutting is confident that he's letting Charrington got the
33:00
Speaker 2: end of this season, which I've heard nothing to suggest
33:03
Speaker 2: that one way or the other. But if they get
33:06
Speaker 2: to September first, and Nutting knows that he's firing Ben
33:10
Speaker 2: at the end of the season, then he should just
33:12
Speaker 2: fire him in September and start to search. Now, Yep,
33:14
Speaker 2: that's how what you go, Like, what good does it
33:17
Speaker 2: do keeping him around for another month? I guess theoretically
33:20
Speaker 2: they could get hot, but if you're if you're firing him,
33:22
Speaker 2: that means like you're really dead exactly.
33:24
Speaker 1: That's my thoughts on it. You guys have anything to add, No.
33:28
Speaker 3: I think it's that time you say, period full stop,
33:31
Speaker 3: that your goal is to make the postseason, and you
33:34
Speaker 3: don't accomplish that goal, you need to be held accountable.
33:37
Speaker 3: So that's it's a pretty quick thought on that.
33:42
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean this unfortunate.
33:45
Speaker 4: You know, things that happen in the game on both
33:47
Speaker 4: player side and you know, front off the side. Me personally,
33:52
Speaker 4: I have never been in a situation where it's happened
33:54
Speaker 4: mid season my manager. Aerial changes have happened due to
33:57
Speaker 4: you know, health reasons or whatever. But at the same time,
34:00
Speaker 4: you know, we've all it happens yearly. You know, whether
34:03
Speaker 4: it's a GM, whether it's a manager interim managers. You know,
34:08
Speaker 4: when owners and stuff feel that the time is right,
34:11
Speaker 4: you know, that's ultimately their decision. And as you said,
34:14
Speaker 4: if he's thinking that and things don't go the right way,
34:17
Speaker 4: I mean some places are like, you know what, let's get.
34:21
Speaker 5: Ahead of it.
34:21
Speaker 4: And you know, with the uncertainty, you know, it's one
34:24
Speaker 4: of those things you darn if you do, you dar'n
34:26
Speaker 4: if you don't like it's just what they need to
34:29
Speaker 4: do is play better baseball. But that, as you said,
34:32
Speaker 4: it's gonna be tough. But yeah, September is going to
34:34
Speaker 4: be interesting.
34:36
Speaker 2: Yes, you know what's also interesting is this podcast and
34:40
Speaker 2: you can subscribe to it and have access at your fingertips.
34:44
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34:46
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34:48
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34:57
Speaker 1: You can support the show, fellas. Any final thoughts before
34:59
Speaker 1: we it up.
35:01
Speaker 3: Not me, I got your pet.
35:07
Speaker 1: I've just got an Argentina sure.
35:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, alright, Well for Platinum Key A K Mark.
35:17
Speaker 1: And Josh Harrison.
35:18
Speaker 2: I'm Noah Hayle, signing off, saying thanks for tuning in
35:20
Speaker 2: to another episode of Bucco Territory, presented to you by
35:22
Speaker 2: the Foul Territory Network.
35:23
Speaker 1: Take care,