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Katie Woolf spoke with Attorney General Selena Uibo · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Well as if the scandal which has plagued the Gunner
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: government for more than a week wasn't enough, The Opposition
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: now says the failure of the Gunner government to refer
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: for investigation allegations of threats and intimidation by a labor
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: staffer towards the Member for Braitlink, Joshua Burgoyne, is further
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  Speaker 1: proof of the toxic culture in the Chief Minister's office.
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  Speaker 1: I spoke to the Attorney General and Minister for Corrections,
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  Speaker 1: Parks and Indigenous Affairs earlier this morning, Selena Rubo, good morning.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Good morning Katy, and good morning to your listeners.
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  Speaker 1: Minister. Did a member of your staff threaten and intimidate
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  Speaker 1: the Member for Braitley.
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  Speaker 2: So, Katie, I understand that there was an interaction and
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  Speaker 2: exchange of words last week. I was unaware until emotion
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  Speaker 2: was brought before the House yesterday in Parliament by the
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  Speaker 2: Member for Braitling. It didn't name any staff members from
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  Speaker 2: any ministerial officers, but as soon as the motion was
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: brought before the House by staff member did identify that
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  Speaker 2: they had been involved in an exchange last week on
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  Speaker 2: Thursday evening. I was completely unaware that anything had occurred.
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  Speaker 2: The staff member took absolute ownership of the incident in exchange.
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  Speaker 2: They had not been aware that the Member for Braitling
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  Speaker 2: had been offended by the exchange. They unreservedly apologized and
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  Speaker 2: provided a statement which I read out in the House.
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  Speaker 2: Again the severity of a motion being brought before the House.
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  Speaker 2: The employee that members we were able to speak freely
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  Speaker 2: in the house. It is not a place that staff
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  Speaker 2: were able to speak to. So I read the statement
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  Speaker 2: on behalf of the staff member which had not realized
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  Speaker 2: that the interaction in the exchange had been offensive to
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  Speaker 2: the Member for Braitling and apologized for that.
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  Speaker 1: But did that staff member intimidate the Member for Brightley.
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  Speaker 2: Well, there's no clarity necessarily from the motion that was
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  Speaker 2: brought before the House yesterday. Katie and the staff member
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  Speaker 2: had provided in the statement that they didn't use the
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  Speaker 2: language that had been identified in the motion by the
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  Speaker 2: memphi Braitling. So again still recognizing that it is improper
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  Speaker 2: and appropriate for a staff member to speak to an
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  Speaker 2: opposition MLA, particularly if there's offense that may be caused.
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  Speaker 2: So just working through that yesterday as it came to light, Katie,
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  Speaker 2: so I TA Member is absolutely apologetic, but honestly had
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  Speaker 2: not realized that the exchange had caused the Memphi Braitling
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  Speaker 2: any offense.
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  Speaker 1: All right. The CLP opposition called for the matter to
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  Speaker 1: be referred to the Privileges Committee for disciplinary action, but
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  Speaker 1: the government did not allow this to happen and said
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  Speaker 1: the staffer had been dealt with internally. As the Attorney General,
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  Speaker 1: you are the first law officer of the Northern Territory.
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  Speaker 1: Why did you not deem this incident as serious enough
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  Speaker 1: to be referred to the Privileges Committee.
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  Speaker 2: Again, Katie, we were unaware that the motion was being
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  Speaker 2: brought before the House. That was yesterday morning. The motion
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  Speaker 2: was adjourned off so we could work through the wording
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  Speaker 2: of the motion. There were four points to the motion
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  Speaker 2: that was brought before the House by the Member for Braitling.
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  Speaker 2: As I mentioned, once the motion had been provided to
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  Speaker 2: the House, the staff member in my office had identified
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  Speaker 2: that it was them who had the exchange with the
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  Speaker 2: Member for Brailing. We had to work through what the
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  Speaker 2: details and the interaction the exchange were. Again, we only
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  Speaker 2: had the motion before us in front of the House.
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  Speaker 2: We hadn't had any identification of whel it was the
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  Speaker 2: member of staff had provided that information and worked through
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  Speaker 2: and gone through their details and their story, and it
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  Speaker 2: seems like it was a heated exchange of words and
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  Speaker 2: again there's no clarity from the member for brailing its
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  Speaker 2: words the effect of but there's no particular details in that.
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  Speaker 2: We wanted to get the particular details to see what
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  Speaker 2: type of consequence and the severity of the exchange.
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  Speaker 1: So how has that now so how has that staff
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  Speaker 1: member now journal process? How has that staff member now
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  Speaker 1: been reprimanded?
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  Speaker 2: That been provided a formal warning, Katie, which means if
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  Speaker 2: there are any further incidents then it would be a
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  Speaker 2: loss of a loss of the job.
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  Speaker 1: Minister. There have been some really serious allegations made about
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  Speaker 1: the team which you're part of over the last week.
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  Speaker 1: The COLP claimed that there is a toxic culture on
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  Speaker 1: the fifth floor of Parliament House.
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  Speaker 2: Is that true, Katie? I don't believe that at all,
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  Speaker 2: And I mean it's one thing to be saying comments
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  Speaker 2: about different teams on the outside, but we've worked extremely
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  Speaker 2: hard as a Labor government to try and differentiate ourselves
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  Speaker 2: from the CLP opposition and the previous chaos days. And
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  Speaker 2: we know, yes we were in the last term of
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  Speaker 2: Governor's Labor and of course we've had our rollercoasters along
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  Speaker 2: the way, and particularly internally with some of the public
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  Speaker 2: members of our team in the previous term and now
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  Speaker 2: what's happened last week. But we've absolutely worked extremely hard
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  Speaker 2: as team members and also our staff who have also
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  Speaker 2: been tainted by different accusations which in some instances have
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  Speaker 2: not been found true with evidence.
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  Speaker 1: Minister, with respect, though, we have got a situation right
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  Speaker 1: now where obviously you've had to just we're pressed for
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  Speaker 1: time today, Minister, we are very much pressed for time,
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  Speaker 1: so I want to get to the point here. We've
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  Speaker 1: got a situation where there's allegations now of one of
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  Speaker 1: your staff intimidating and threatening a member of the opposition.
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  Speaker 1: We also have other allegations that have been made throughout
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  Speaker 1: the last week. Is there a culture of cover up
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  Speaker 1: and bad behavior right now on the fifth floor of Parliament?
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  Speaker 2: No O, Katie, I don't believe that that's a true
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  Speaker 2: reflection of the culture we worked very hard to build
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  Speaker 2: up for the Labor government.
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  Speaker 1: All right, Minister, moving along, I do want to ask you,
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  Speaker 1: because we know that the coorp Oor position is obviously
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  Speaker 1: bringing this through Parliament today, do you support random drug
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  Speaker 1: testing for those working inside Parliament House.
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  Speaker 2: Katie, I think when we're talking about workplace responsibilities, you
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  Speaker 2: would think that that would cover, particularly under the Code
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  Speaker 2: of conduct when we employee staff, and I think that
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  Speaker 2: that's strong. I don't believe that gossip and rumor that
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  Speaker 2: then goes to I.
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  Speaker 1: Think we've sort of gone past the point of gossip
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  Speaker 1: and rumor.
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  Speaker 2: Unfortunately implicated because of you know, a couple of things
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  Speaker 2: that have come out and or accusations and allegations which
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  Speaker 2: haven't been founded in regards to evidence, that then all
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  Speaker 2: of all of the stuff, or all of the members
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  Speaker 2: of Parliament would then be tainted with the same brunch.
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  Speaker 1: So Minister, do you feel as though you feel as
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  Speaker 1: though you know what's come out in the media over
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  Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks is okay and appropriate?
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely not, Katie, That's not what I said at all.
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  Speaker 2: I'm saying when we're talking about codes of conduct of behavior,
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  Speaker 2: we have two issues. So the issue last year of
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  Speaker 2: the personal affair and the matter which obviously has played
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  Speaker 2: out extremely publicly, and you know, I feel for the
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  Speaker 2: member for Blaine's family in particular, that's one set. But
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  Speaker 2: when we're talking about, you know, our culture and toxic
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  Speaker 2: culture and the actions of staff members and members of Parliament.
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  Speaker 2: We hold ourselves to a high standard, Katie, and that
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  Speaker 2: is through and particularly with our staff, through a code
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  Speaker 2: of conduct. We hold ourselves to a high standard. And
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  Speaker 2: then saying just blatantly, oh, yes, everyone should be drug
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  Speaker 2: tested because of some perception that people are doing the
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  Speaker 2: wrong thing, and we absolutely don't believe that that's occurring.
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  Speaker 2: There's no evidence to the contrary. That's what I disagree with, Katie.
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  Speaker 1: All right, Minister, let's move along, because there is a
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  Speaker 1: lot that I want to talk to you about, and
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  Speaker 1: I know that you're very much pressed for time, and
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  Speaker 1: let's be honest, there are some pretty serious other issues
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: floating around the territory at the moment. One of those
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  Speaker 1: is Kakadu. Minister, are you concerned about these reports earlier
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  Speaker 1: in the week that the relationship between traditional owners and
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  Speaker 1: the management is still very much strained.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, Katie, We obviously were aware of the four Corners
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  Speaker 2: report which happened on Monday, but being a former local
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  Speaker 2: member for Jaburu and Kakadu, I've spent quite a lot
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  Speaker 2: of time, of course in that part of the Territory,
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  Speaker 2: and particularly last year when it came to a head
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  Speaker 2: when traditional owners were very explicitly unhappy with the management
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  Speaker 2: from Parks Australia, which is Auspitz or headed from Canberra.
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  Speaker 2: I believe that Parks Australia have tried to make some
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  Speaker 2: adjustments to having some I guess local on the ground
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  Speaker 2: authority to that particular organization. But what I can say
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  Speaker 2: is that as a labor government, we are very strongly
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  Speaker 2: committed to the future of Kakadu and Jaburu and the
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: residents in that area. And we do have some great
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  Speaker 2: joint managed parks that are run through the Northern Territory
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  Speaker 2: Department of Parks and Wildlife. So again acknowledging there's probably
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  Speaker 2: a long way to go in terms of Kakadu, but
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  Speaker 2: the part that the Northern Territory Government plays, we're willing
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  Speaker 2: and committed to continue supporting the future of Jabru and Kakadu.
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  Speaker 1: Minister can I ask still in this vein there are
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  Speaker 1: there was obviously a lot of talk a few weeks
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  Speaker 1: ago about the introduction of those park fees for Northern
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  Speaker 1: Territory managed parks. Where are things at with that and
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  Speaker 1: do we know yet exactly what those charges are going to.
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  Speaker 2: Be, Katie. We do have some changes to the proposed
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  Speaker 2: fee structure for our parks, and I know we spoke
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  Speaker 2: in the past we were hoping that would be finalized
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  Speaker 2: by this time. We're still working through a few details,
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  Speaker 2: and in particular with our tourism operators and that industry
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  Speaker 2: sector who run businesses in our parks. So just making
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  Speaker 2: sure that we are touching all bases and and having
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  Speaker 2: their important feedback before we release our final fee structures.
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  Speaker 1: Has there been a decision made yet regarding windows on
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  Speaker 1: the Wetlands, Katie?
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  Speaker 2: The window on the Wetlands again a beautiful place and
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  Speaker 2: in a beautiful part of the Northern Territory. Still working
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  Speaker 2: through that. It's been temporarily closed, but we're looking at
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  Speaker 2: possibly having an expression of interest process for that particular
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  Speaker 2: facility release later on this year and then working through
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  Speaker 2: that application process of the EOI.
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  Speaker 1: All right, we'll keep a close eye on that one.
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  Speaker 1: Onto another topic, corrections. Last week we heard from Erina Early,
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  Speaker 1: the head of the United Workers union, that staff at
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  Speaker 1: the jail are unsafe and they may look to take
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  Speaker 1: industrial action. Have you met with staff and the union
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  Speaker 1: and what have they said to you.
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  Speaker 2: Ah, Yes, So I have met with the union, and
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  Speaker 2: I've met with the Prison Officers Association on a regular
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  Speaker 2: basis as well. Katie and I have met with Arena
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: and some of the union team. They've been very productive
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  Speaker 2: in our conversations and our interactions and particularly flagging any concerns.
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  Speaker 2: Our Acting Commissioner has worked with them over the last week.
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  Speaker 2: I'll be looking forward to an update next week. Last
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  Speaker 2: week and meetings again this week. So making sure that
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  Speaker 2: our corrections officers, who we know do a really tough
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  Speaker 2: job and a great job at that in venturing that
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  Speaker 2: they have all the support that they need, and particularly
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: if there are any concerns about safety or particularly staffing rosters.
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  Speaker 2: We know that there's been a lot of long hours
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  Speaker 2: and it's been a huge year, particularly last year with
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: COVID and some changes to be able to protect our
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: staff and the vulnerable population that are in the correction facilities.
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  Speaker 2: So working through any of those concerns and I feel
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  Speaker 2: like there is a very productive relationship there, Katie.
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  Speaker 1: All right, Minister, I'm getting the hurry along from your staff,
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  Speaker 1: so we are going to have to leave it there.
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  Speaker 1: But I think I've got you on Friday for the
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  Speaker 1: week that was in.
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  Speaker 2: STEINAI looking for to it. Katie, good on.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Your minister, thanks very much for your time today, Bet
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: thank you very much. Thank you. That is the Minister
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  Speaker 1: for well, she's the Attorney General, she's also the Minister
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  Speaker 1: for various other portfolios. Selena Rubo there, she's got Indigenous
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  Speaker 1: affairs as well as corrections and parks. Certainly a lot
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  Speaker 1: to cover off on this morning, and I tell you what,
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  Speaker 1: I know that there's going to be plenty of people
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  Speaker 1: with pretty strong opinions following on from that interview. You know,
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  Speaker 1: I had planned to spend quite a bit more time
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  Speaker 1: talking about corrections in Kakadoo. Unfortunately the Minister did have
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: to get to another meeting. But we know that, you know,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: this situation with the scandal that's been playing out in
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: the media over the last week or so has obviously
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  Speaker 1: you know, that's one side to the discussions that have
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: taken place. But then of course we hear yesterday in
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: Parliament the colp referring to Joshua Burgoyne Well allegedly receiving
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: allegations of threats and intimidation. I know it's my making
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: a lot of people question what kind of culture there
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  Speaker 1: is right now on the fifth floor of Parliament. Now,
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  Speaker 1: I've said it a few times this week, but I'll
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  Speaker 1: say it again. I know that there are plenty of
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: really great people that work inside Parliament House, particularly on
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: the fifth floor of Parliament, but I've got to say,
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  Speaker 1: when this type of thing continues and continues to be raised,
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  Speaker 1: you do need to question what exactly is going on
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: when you talk about leadership.