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Romans 7, varied perspectives, freedom, and the census · Goodlife Church Formation Podcast

• Jack: ⁓ welcome back to another episode of the Good Life Formation Podcast. Pastor Dave Mbex. Have I got you both twice like two weeks in a row, two episodes in a row? Rebecca Connett: Yeah, wow, right? DC: Yes, it's Christmas miracle Jack. Jack: It's Christmas miracle. ⁓ Dave, I'm sick of asking where you are 'cause you're always in your office. But Beck, where in the world are you? Look at if for those who aren't watching, you can watch on YouTube, Spotify, wherever else. ⁓ you're in some New York like loft, are you? Rebecca Connett: Yeah, I am. DC: looks impressive. Rebecca Connett: Yeah, I'm in a beautiful, my new office. Do love it? Jack: You are. Okay, that's the answer. ⁓ Dave, where in the world are you? DC: I am actually in my office here, Jack. Right behind me, this is what I'm working on right now. It's actually my message on the whiteboard for the coming Sunday on Romans chapter eight. I'm so much fun. Jack: I that's a smaller Okay. Okay. Rebecca Connett: Exciting, exciting. One of my favourite chapters in the whole Bible. DC: Yes, it's one of mine as well, so I made sure I got to preach it. Jack: Well, we spoke about this, Bex. I don't I don't think you were here. It seems like the easy chapters have been given like preferential treatment to to the favourites. Do you feel the same? Hmm. Rebecca Connett: Yeah, thanks for that. I felt that too. Yeah, I definitely felt like that. Yeah. DC: Rebecca Connaughton is my favourite. Rebecca Connett: So you gave me the hardest chapter of all. No, no, actually, I would actually dispute that. I don't think it's the hardest chapter in Romans. Jack: But he did she didn' DC: and you crushed it. Sorry, say again. Jack: Yeah, well it and Joel got Rones twelve. Rebecca Connett: Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah, but I don't actually think Roman seven is the hardest one. think later on is one of the harder ones, which I would have loved to have done as well. anyway, I only got given one chapter out of all of Romans. Feel very, very rejected and hurt by that. Jack: So he's the favourite. DC: That's true. And Kevin Wilcock. Jack: Yeah, right. Okay. ⁓ you can send DC: It's because we're very clever in regulating energy focus and the other things that are on your plate, my dear. and you have a whole sermon series coming up that you are doing. So we're letting you focus that way. Rebecca Connett: Okay. I do. Jack: There you go. ⁓ Bex and listeners, you can send an email to complaints at goodlifechurch.com dot AU and ⁓ that will that will get read by nobody, but you'll feel better if you complain there. Cause that's really what complaining is actually all about, right? It's getting it off your chest. Yeah. Great. Okay. Well, we did do rum seven yesterday at the time of recording. ⁓ Dave, give us a give us a mark out of ten and why? Rebecca Connett: Yes. Hahaha DC: you Rebecca Connett: Okay. Feel free. Mm-hmm. DC: Look, I would say, yeah, no, it's hard out of 10. I would say Bex's Rebecca Connett: I didn't know I was going to be graded. Jack: Can't use seven. Can't use seven either. DC: ⁓ I would say it's eight and a half and north. I'd be eight and a half and nine because of the, I thought a couple of things. First of all, it's almost like the analogies that Paul uses or to talk about death in so many different ways and how to actually unpack it in a way that makes sense. I mean, you do have to sit back through Romans seven and go, you know, which bit is that? Is death to what? And like it kind of cross, it's like a. It doesn't, it's not always nice. mean, if, Paul was getting a review on his writing style, it'd be like, geez, can you say that a bit nicer, please? But you can, the way that Bex unpacked it to go, that's why that, and then that's why this, and that's why it was really, really remarkable to actually really make it easy. And what we're trying to do is make the word of God understandable for people so they can apply it. We want people to not just be hearers of the word, but doers also. And I thought Bex just did that. in a really stunning way. I thought the ⁓ story about the rules on the wall back at Woolies, back at, where were you, in North of Auckland, the rules in Whangaparoa was the customer is always right and if in doubt, refer to rule ⁓ one. And then to say, here's the whole point of Roman 7, you are free if in doubt, refer to rule. Rebecca Connett: Bon Appetit! DC: One, I think that ⁓ was a great handle for everything to hang on and gave room for that to be understood and applied. So it's one thing to make it understandable, then another thing to make it applicable. And I thought Bex did a stunning job with that. Jack: Mm. Yeah, I agree. We actually have a similar version of those rules at home. It says ⁓ Christina is always right. And if in doubt, refer to a one. Rebecca Connett: Thanks, babe. Mm-hmm. I love that. I love that. Do you listen to that, Roger? Jack: Hmm. I'm not sure I do. DC: It's just like the other project. Jack: I respect the rule. Yes. No, it what what's the other one? It's like ⁓ if i something about losing an argument and ⁓ and you just move on to the next argument. There's a there's another one of those rules. Hey, your your slide skills have gone through the roof, Rebecca. Your your your artistic design. Thank so thank I'm thanking you for that. Rebecca Connett: You DC: . Rebecca Connett: you ⁓ look. Thank you. I'm thinking you for that actually. Look, it people who know, Jack's in my, I don't know, we call it special relationship, knows that it's based on just insults. Basically, it's insults. And so far be it from me. Far be it from me to DC: very special. It's definitely Jack's love language. That's no doubt. Jack: Roasting roasting in spreadsheets. Rebecca Connett: want to thank Jack for anything. ⁓ But yeah, Jack's got me on to ⁓ Claude and I'm using Claude to create my slides because it's so much quicker. I'm like, I want a slide that has to say this, this and this and I want it to look like this and it just doesn't. So. Jack: Bingo. I like that. Well, okay, what what didn't make it to the slides? Like how how what what didn't make it to the sermon? ⁓ yeah, give us a give us a peek. Rebecca Connett: Pages and pages and pages didn't make it to the sermon. Jack: How do you okay, so rather than we'll get to the specifics, but how do you decide what does and doesn't make it? Rebecca Connett: Yeah, my, the way that I prepare a sermon is I do a lot of research, a lot of reading, a lot of investigating, and then I do a giant big dump of everything that's in my thoughts, in my brains. I just dump it all out, either handwritten or into, you know, on computer. And then from there I create, and again, I apologize for everyone who's not watching, but I actually, this is my, ⁓ you can't see, there you go. There's my map for yesterday for Roman. So I map it out and figure out how do I map it, what's going to go with what point. And that probably helps me then eliminate a fair chunk because if it doesn't actually work in my map, my really logical way of going through. DC: Yeah. Jack: Mm-hmm. Rebecca Connett: then it has to go. And then once I've got my map done, I'll then start just writing my preach and that's usually way too long. And so then I've got to go back and just cull like ruthlessly cull. And what's hard for me because I'm such a teacher, it's not that I want to say more. I just want to have about another 50 scriptures. So our guys who do our media know that whenever I preach is going to be 100 scriptures. And what they don't know is there's probably another 100 that I eliminated. ⁓ But I mean, I can talk about some of the stuff that didn't make it, I think is actually really important still. Jack: And so Yeah, well hold hold that. We'll get to those specifics. ⁓ Dave, I'm curious, do you have a part to play in the format like in the formation of vex messages? Or or vice versa. Like how do you guys fit do you write it together? Or is it just like the first time you hear it is on Sunday morning? How does that work? Rebecca Connett: Mm-hmm. DC: So there's a couple of things with it, Jack, if we're doing a series that is required to be ⁓ consecutive, like when we're ⁓ walking through, you know, it's nine weeks in Romans, which... which has meant we've had to actually make sure what do we really nail, what do we focus on, what's the key points? Because you're thinking this right away across nine weeks. How do I get the main chapters and the main verses really focused on that everything else kind of hangs upon, which means you are skipping. Sometimes with this series, we're skipping through two, three chapters on a week and other times we're doing half a chapter. So it's to really nail what's really necessary. And so I do need the preachers to keep to, here's the focus. And what we'll do in that journey, here's nine weeks, here's the verses you're given or the chapters you're given, but here's the main point that I need you to drive home because we're doing nine weeks of making sure we get the best out of Romans, not you just getting your best or what you think is the best out of that little section. So we're making sure we get the full picture. of what Paul's talking through there. So that's the first thing and Bex is walking that through as well. And she's got obviously room to push back or I'd prefer to do this and I have to go look really like the person before you did that or the person after you like it's also have no problem with people pushing back on that, but it probably structurally affects more things. So in this case, that's what we do. then and then and then I allow the preacher to go for it, get into the word, let the spirit of God breathe upon the word, we work with preachers that and we've talked about on Good Life Formation podcast previously, why we do certain preachers, why we have certain people with certain skill sets and where they get room. ⁓ But I let them jump into the word of God and let the spirit of God breathe upon it. And then certain preachers are still in review point, like they'll bring their preach to me and we'll walk that through. Bex will do that anyway. And I would say the way that we've helped Rebecca Connett: Usually at the end, usually once it's written, I'll bring it to you. DC: Yeah, earlier days when Bex was, I suppose, a fresher preacher, always great on the content, always great as a teacher, but wouldn't naturally, because she naturally reads the word and then goes, well, I've to do that. So she just applies it without thinking. There's a very short ⁓ distance between her reading it, getting a revelation and her just going, I've just got to do that. Like, that's how we live our lives. And so Bex doesn't naturally think. to give you when she's teaching it, the link to what to do next or here's the options or how to face your own internal battles with that. So that's been my journey of being. I work with all of our preachers on how they can be the better them as a preacher, as a communicator of the word of God. It's one of the things for Bex is to make sure like how many times I would say, she give me her message and I'm like, so what? She says, what do mean? I'm like. So what? So what now? Talk to me, the business person, the single mum, the young married couple, like the elderly person who's dealing with what they're dealing with. Like, how does this actually change their life tomorrow? Because if it doesn't, what the heck are we doing? I don't want heads full of knowledge. I want hearts full of revelation ready then to put faith into works. Because if we don't, our faith is dead. So that's been the journey. And VEX has gotten better and better and better with that. ⁓ And so some of the things then is the shaping of the crafting then of that. So it's just some refining. I mean, I was a part of Beck's message, ⁓ you happened to be in the room while I was reading it, Jack. And so I was like, focus on this, cut that, that was far too long for that bit, bang, like that's focus on this. ⁓ And then actually that key idea about the Woolies rules. ⁓ I said, you just need to be banging on that all the time. People are gonna remember that if that's the thing that you bang on, you are free if in doubt to rule. And so she had it, was just some of the crafting and the art around it, to bring out that gift is what I'm. Rebecca Connett: Mm. Mm. Jack: I love and appreciate that you yeah, add your thoughts and refinements to all of the other preachers. How do you get better, Dave? Who like who teaches you? Where do you learn rather? DC: what are you-? ⁓ ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Rebecca Connett: Dave's already 10 out of 10, he can't get better. Jack: ⁓ re really? Really. You're you're obliged to say that, I'm not. Rebecca Connett: Hahaha! Yeah, yeah, true. DC: look, I would have, I'm probably the hardest marker on myself. I really do look to it's interesting, Jack, because I've always thought everyone's got a quality that makes them ⁓ valuable to listen to. And so everyone's got their quirk, their perk, and you have to lean in on the things that make that work and the things, and you have to lean away from the things that distract from that. And so the way that I've had to learn is to realize, well, God's actually okay with me and I'm being the better me. I have certain things that I'm good at, things that I'm really good at actually don't serve my congregation. And so I park them, they get me preaching guest ministry, all of the tricks come out, Jack. And so the... I suppose the ability to hold attention, like people go, ⁓ you're an entertaining preacher. I'm like, the alternative is boring. Like I want to hold attention. And all of those things these days are actually allocated time, stories, funny things. And anything that's distracting off that general gist, I shoot them very, very quickly. Rebecca Connett: Mm. DC: I've got to shoot that squirrel really quickly. I'm probably a hard marker myself. I go through, I have to go, all right, if I was coaching this person, what would I say? And so I sit back after hearing it. And that refining process of being the better me, something that I do leading into a message, but then off the back of it. ⁓ If I'm preaching twice on a Sunday, I will listen to it on YouTube, on a drive somewhere, I will spend time going through, okay, fix that, do that, I'm already refining. ⁓ Rebecca Connett: Yeah. Jack: Mm. Nice. Yeah, I that's actually a very good skill. It's a tricky one to learn of like if if I was critiquing this, what would I say? And it's I'd say a really healthy one for those who maybe are leading a Kinect group or a Bible study or a pre-service meeting or a youth meeting or speaking at Creative. Like if you're a good life for listening along, critique yourself as if you would critique someone next to you. It's a a help healthy skill to develop. Rebecca Connett: Mm. DC: The interesting in this situation, Jack, is that sometimes people have got opinions, but they really don't understand good communication, or they don't understand the word of God, or they don't understand the pastoral context or the apostolic direction, all sorts of different things. You need people who actually have the context of a range of different, like if someone was to say to me, hey, let me talk to you about your communication style. you don't have to be great with the word of God or understanding pastoral context, because they're just talking about communication style. But preaching is a mixture of all of those things. And so looking for people with success in that area. And so what I'll do is I will lean into that. And truth be told, with my role, ⁓ I do have to be across, quite, I'm. I have to be quite the generalist. I'm not a specialist. I have to be quite general at a lot of different skills to be able to do that. The trick is to sit back and to not have demo love. Like I loved what I said there. That was fun. Like actually go, did that work? Like actually sit outside of it and give a critique like it's not you, that you're doing it. You want that person, you love that person. You believe in that person. You want them to get better and you want the gospel to be preached better circumstance. Rebecca Connett: I think also because Dave preaches probably the most at Good Life, ⁓ know, people can love my teaching style, ⁓ but if they had me every week after a while it would get old, but because Dave is preaching all the time and he's got to preach to everyone, all the different, you know, everyone's different preferences, where they're at. He's across at pastoral a lot more than I am. And so people might go, ⁓ I'd prefer more teaching, right? But what they don't understand is because he's preaching all the time, he's got to hit all the different people with all their different needs and all that kind of stuff. So I can almost come in as a bit more of a specialist and just do my thing, which some people froth off because they love teaching, but Dave's got to touch everyone. including the ones who don't love the deep teaching or the ones who are fresh or the you know, so I think that's that's probably a greater skill that Dave has ⁓ that people probably don't appreciate because they hear him a lot. Does that make sense? Jack: Yes. Absolutely. And I think to ⁓ yeah, to bring a lighter kind of anecdote to that, it's like, well, ⁓ Bex, you're the you're the wagyu, right? And Dave, you're just the sausage and veg. It's like you can't have wagyu every night. Right. It would it would become a little bit ⁓ unpalatable. But it's nice once or twice, every now and then. Rebecca Connett: Exactly. DC: Can I be slightly better than sausage and ⁓ Jack: No. Peas and carrots. Rebecca Connett: You're the healthy, you're the good food that we actually just need day in, day out. Jack: Don't try and justify this. DC: ⁓ The problem is behind the scenes we just want to shred each other but then Rebecca Connett: It's a compliment they've taken. Jack: Right, right. Yeah. You're just just meat and two veg. Anyway, Bex, what didn't make you mentioned there's a couple of ⁓ scriptures that didn't make it. ⁓ yeah. What how how do you what were they? What what got left out? Rebecca Connett: Ahem. Mm. Well before I talk about the scriptures that didn't make it, probably one of the big points I wanted to make that I didn't, I wanted to make actually in my introduction was around the whole thing of, you know, we are breaking Romans down across nine weeks, 16 chapters across nine weeks, and so we're having to look at it in bite-sized chunks and dig deep. And that's really helpful and really important because people, you know, like I said yesterday, people will read Romans 7 and go, I have no idea. But once we've dug deep and pulled it apart and broken it down to simple bite-sized chunks, they can go, ⁓ I get it now. The flip side of that is that Romans is a letter, right? The books that Paul wrote, all of them are letters. And if you think about when you receive a letter in the mail, you don't just read one paragraph of a letter and then put it down. And letters are not written in chapters, right? You get the letter, you read the whole letter. And books like Romans and all of Paul's letters and all the letters, the epistles in the Bible are actually designed to be read in a sitting like you would a normal letter and Jack: W sorry to interrupt, w when did those chapters and verses get inserted for our study purposes? Yeah, yeah. Rebecca Connett: ⁓ much later, I don't remember when but was like a thousand years later. DC: ⁓ Jack, it was the Illuminati, it was a conspiracy. It's got something to do with the moon landing as well. Jack: I was hoping you'd say that. Did so Bex, did you say a thousand years later? Rebecca Connett: Hahaha think it was around a thousand AD. Yeah. I could be way wrong. Jack: Right, because before that not many people could read, right? Like a lot of it was just verbal prior to that anyway. Rebecca Connett: And it's just convenient, like, because that's how you can, you know, we know where you're reading from, right? I could be wrong on that date. That's just off the top of my head. My memory is around a thousand, but I could be wrong. DC: You're never wrong, babe. Don't doubt yourself. You're never wrong. Rebecca Connett: So the point with Paul in particular, because he is so worthy, ⁓ because he's so worthy and he's building a case, he's like a lawyer. He goes, I'm gonna talk about this. And he knows he wants to get to here, to the end point of his end. But he literally in Romans, I mean, he starts in probably chapter one or chapter three, you could say, depending on where you wanna start it. And he makes his case over six chapters, right? Or across eight chapters. And so by just taking one bit, you're kind of missing the beginning and the end of the point he's actually making. ⁓ And so what I wanted to probably encourage people is, you know, not just with Romans, but with the other epistles, just read the whole thing or as much as you can in a single sitting, not to get the you're not going to understand all of it, but to get the overall gist of what he's saying, because that is lost sometimes. even in your own devotional time if you're just reading a chapter at a time and I love that I mean I like to do that but you will miss the the the whole picture of what he's building and I think that's an important thing people actually understand ⁓ yeah so that was one thing I did want to say ⁓ and then I wanted to talk about ⁓ DC: So, you suggesting that people should take time to read in a granular manner, the word of God, but then also to give time to do it differently to get like the large brushstrokes. I know for me every January I listen to slash read the whole Bible in a month. ⁓ And it's just, I do it chronologically as well, which is a little bit of a hack for those things. Rebecca Connett: helpful. DC: if you find it difficult, but man, ⁓ you get things very differently. You get themes across the board. If you do that with a book, you get the full theme, what really makes sense. Is that what you're suggesting? People should find a way to do both. Rebecca Connett: That's right, exactly. Absolutely. ⁓ One of the things that my mum did actually, and she's brilliant on this, is she did both of those things. on the really ⁓ digging deep side of things, she actually memorised not just whole chapters of the Bible, my mum has memorised whole books of the Bible. ⁓ So to really get, you know, yeah, pardon. DC: Seriously. Hold books. Rebecca Connett: Yep, whole books. She memorised all of Ephesians. Jack: Well like like f f for Lyman is like, you know, th is that really a book? Rebecca Connett: She did Ephesians, she did all of James, she memorized first and second Timothy. So not like, you know, 16 chapter books, but like five and six chapter books. Yep, she memorized them all. You know, and she studies, you know, bit by bit, chapter by chapter. But the other thing she did was she actually went and did a speed reading course so that she could speed read it. Because again, by speed reading, DC: research on Jack: All right. DC: Yeah Rebecca Connett: You get the whole gist at the same time. And I'm not suggesting you all have to do that, but you know, there's there's ways to do it. Or like Dave does, you know, listen to the whole Bible. So Dave's got the Bible in his ears while he's at the gym and he's listening to it on, you know, twice the speed. So it's really fast. But you get the picture of it you get the overarching story. And that's the thing with the Bible. There is this overarching meta narrative from Genesis through to Revelation. All connect. And when you get that You know, you get the gist, you don't get all the little bits, but you get that overarching picture of God's plan from Genesis all the way through to Revelation, which is so, powerful to catch. ⁓ in fact, one of the keys to good exegesis, which is, you know, good understanding of the scripture, is actually to do that, ⁓ is to sit down and read a book in one sitting, and then go back and break it down chapter by chapter. Jack: Hmm. Okay, I gotta maybe a slightly curlier one for you both. Through particularly through Romans seven, Paul talks about being, you know, dead to sin, but in the same way, like wrestling with sin. And so how do we how do we navigate those seemingly contradictory perspectives? Rebecca Connett: really powerful. Yeah, I love it. It's actually a recurring theme in the New Testament is to actually that death, know, Galatians 2.20, I've been crucified with Christ. It's no longer I that lives, right? Jesus said, take up your cross and follow me. There's another one I'm trying to think where it is now. I think it's Galatians 5 where he says, you you put to death the deeds of your flesh. And so there's this There's this concept in theology called already but not yet and already but not yet is basically talking about justification and sanctification. So justification, two big words, but justification is what happens to us at salvation, right? So at salvation, all of my sins are forgiven and I now stand before God, holy and righteous by the blood of Jesus, not by anything I've done. not by anything I could do but by the blood of Christ and so when when God the father looks at me he looks at me through the lens of the blood of his son and he sees me as holy and righteous right ⁓ the sin nature is dead everything is gone I am pure and that's why we can walk the says we can walk boldly into the very presence of God which in the Old Testament they couldn't do why not because of us but because of the blood of Jesus over us so we are already holy, pure, righteous, clean, all of that. And that's justification. And that is an immediate thing that takes place when we encounter Christ as salvation. Then you've got sanctification. so justification is like an immediate thing that happens. Sanctification is then a process for the rest of our life. And the Bible talks about being transformed into the image of Christ. day by day into the image of Christ and that is a process of sanctification and that's the process by which the Holy Spirit comes and you put a his finger on something go that needs to go right and that is us actually then going we are then submitting our will to God and God's coming along and going okay we're to deal with that we're going to get rid of that and that is that is literally us putting to death that sinful nature ⁓ which is dead it's gone it's it's over it's defeated but We still have habit patterns or whatever it is and God's going, okay, we're deal with that and you're gonna put that to death. And again, we can't do it in our own strength. We cannot do any of this without the Holy Spirit. But we actually then have a choice. We have that free will to go, am I gonna kill that? Am I gonna die to that? Or am I gonna keep that active in my life? And if I choose to keep that sin active in my life, it'll just get bigger and bigger and reassert its dominance. So there's your two things, justification and sanctification. And sanctification is us choosing to put that stuff to death and become transformed to the image of Christ. Jack: Dave, why do some people find it easier? Quote easier to I'll say not be tempted by sin, broad broadly speaking. Or why do why do some people find it easier to deal with sin and others feel like it is a daily struggle against sin? Why why is that, Dave? DC: ⁓ Look, there are many individuals' stories. And so what I, to answer your question is gonna create broad brushstrokes. There will be exceptions to rules in that kind of way, Jack. But that's understanding human nature and understanding the human soul is really key. ⁓ the way that I'm tackling things on this Sunday in regards to Romans 8 is to actually pull apart the timeline so you've got your life before you encounter Christ and some people accept Christ and some people don't. If you accept Christ, then you can go ahead the narrow path, is the, whatever you set your mind on, Romans 8 says, ⁓ if you set your mind on the things of the Spirit, you will fulfill the things of the Spirit. And if you set your mind on the things of the flesh, you will fulfill the things of the flesh and follow the flesh nature. is a broad path. really is a wide, there's so many options, but in the end it leads, it actually ends up leading to death. And eternity is the third part of the timeframe where you get in eternity, your choice on earth regarding Christ, but in completion, full fulfillment. So if you want Christ, if you want to live by the Spirit, if you want to live, you put to death the misdeeds of the flesh is what Pex was already saying. ⁓ Then what you walk into is that in fulfillment, you get the presence of Jesus, you get the Spirit of God, you get all of his promises in fulfillment. The journey then of ⁓ sanctification. is the journey of growing in Christ so that I'm getting closer to him and I'm getting more filled with his life and I'm getting more filled with his attitudes and I'm getting more filled with a new nature in Jesus name because I've put to death the old and I'm up like Romans 6. Baptism, immuneness of life. So the journey why some people struggle more and not is the journey of facing up to the difficulties that you have. What is your sin nature? If you look in James, everyone is tempted when they are drawn away by their own evil desires and enticed. So temptation's no problem because Jesus was tempted. But they're drawn away, there's an isolation. Some people never get over their isolation tendency. And that is a killer, Jack. You can actually address that. So what you can do is you can go, when I'm tempted, you can talk to a brother or sister in Christ. You can stop isolating yourself and get amongst fellowship. there'll be people that get amongst fellowship. And fellowship's not coffee after church, that's called coffee after church. A Christian fellowship is actually being open with brothers and sisters in Christ about strengths, weaknesses, openness, accountability. You don't just want your pastors accountable, you need to be accountable. You need to be accountable. And it might not be your pastors because like, depending on the size of the church, that could be impossible, but you've got to find wise mentors and you can address if temptation is drawn away. ⁓ Rebecca Connett: Hmm. Jack: Yes. Yes. Rebecca Connett: Hmm. DC: own evil desires entice. So what I've got to do is I've got to deal with my tendency towards being drawn away. That could be, you could go, well, you what, you two guys are introverts, I'm the extrovert. It's easier for you, Dave, because you can talk to everyone. But then can be, you can talk to a million people, but be so shallow, you're still drawn away, because you're actually too proud to be open. I've got a great friend of mine that I'm just waiting for the opportunity to get past the pride to actually, I think I can help this person remarkably, but I have no opportunity because any conversation is kept in the shallow and they're protecting themselves from that key issue. But my own evil desires is the next thing. I've got to understand what they are. So I don't have, I've said this publicly before on my platform, I have zero homosexual temptation. Rebecca Connett: Mm. DC: Like seriously, zero. To me, I just go, I have no one. It's another planet. But what I do have is heterosexual temptation. And I'm saying this in front of my wife, but she knows this already. So my heterosexual temptation would be for other women, not just my own wife. But am I just gonna go, well? Just follow it, Dave. Am I gonna get sloppy with that? Am I gonna click on the point? Am I gonna look at the girl who's got the low cleavage? Or am gonna, yeah, I mean, I'm at the gym, I'm running, I'm at the surf, what do I do? I'll find something else to look at. Why? I can't help the first look because it was just right there. But what I can do is go, turn, find something else to look at to keep my mind and my heart disciplined because I want to put to death the deeds of the flesh. So. People that follow these things down the track and then they'll go, well, my sexual proclivities, that becomes their identity. And it's upside down. So therefore, it's harder for me because I'm, you know, someone's homosexual. It's because you focus on it so long. Here's what I'm thinking. I've got such a life that I want to live with Christ. I've got people that I want to love. I've got people that I want to invest in. There's so many things that I want to do. And if I let the evil desires, If I focus on them for a second, I don't wanna give an inch to the devil. I don't wanna give an inch to that flesh nature. The issue is death and you can't double die. No one's got a heart of death. It's just death. I'm actually just dying to myself. So I've got to deal with the isolation. I've actually got to go, this thing's gonna die and then where's the enticement? And so I find myself in situations, I just refuse to be enticed. I'm like, I'm not gonna be in a place where that enticement happen. Rebecca Connett: Mm. DC: So if I'm traveling, there's things that I do and I just will not do. If I'm in Canberra doing chaplaincy in parliament, there is just things and places I will be and I will not be. And I stand alongside men and women of God to go, are you doing that too? Because I'm the person to make sure they're not isolated. And so really, Jack, ⁓ we all come from three different backgrounds. Bex was raised in the womb as a Christian. You were a rat bag and... I come from my level of rat bag and dysfunction. And so we all could have excuses of why X, Y, and Z, X is a pastor's kid. There was some really difficult situations right there. The answer is dying to self and being super, super vigilant on not letting these things come in. Rebecca Connett: Yeah. And I think sometimes we kind of go, well, why would God make it so hard? Like if we become a Christian, why doesn't he just take all that away? And I think, you you guys are the Jim bros. I'm not. But I think the Jim is a. Well, the Jim, the Jim analogy analogy is better, all right. ⁓ If if or even if you're like a soldier, right, if you never fight, you get weak. Jack: Well, it's I'm less of a gym bro and more of a bike bro. But anyway, continue. Okay, sure. Rebecca Connett: And I think this is actually the gift of God that he says, you know what, I'm actually going to allow you to keep fighting that because if you never fight, you're weak, you can't fight. yeah, absolutely. Jack: That's James One, right? Rebecca Connett: And I think that's actually, that's the kindness of God that he goes, I'm actually going to allow you to build those muscles and learn how to do that and have victory because guess what? Now you can help someone else find victory in that area. And I think that's the strength of it. And I don't think we should get cranky at God. Why doesn't he just fix us? He's actually, this is the kindness of God. He wants you to be strong. DC: My total is the kindness of God. It totally is the kindness of God. I need him every day. So I need him every day because I want to be alive in him. I want to be death-debuted. So I'm getting tempted. The enemy is tempting me and I'm getting stronger every single time I'm exercising that muscle, getting stronger. Rebecca Connett: Yeah. Yeah. That's right. That's right. And speaking of that, probably one of the scriptures that didn't come, didn't make it yesterday because I was supposed to stay in Romans, speaks to that though as Galatians 5. And if you're okay, I'm gonna read a couple of verses. Verse 16, he says, and again, this is Paul. So I say, let the Holy Spirit guide your lives. Then you won't be doing what your sinful nature craves. Jack: Sure. Rebecca Connett: sinful nature wants to do evil which is just the opposite of what the spirit wants, the Holy Spirit. The Spirit gives us desires that are the opposite of what the sinful nature desires and these two forces are constantly fighting each other so you're not free to carry out your good intentions but when you are directed by the Spirit you're not under obligation to the law of Moses and we talked about that yesterday but then he says at the end of the chapter he says Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature to his cross and crucified them there. Since we are living by the Spirit, let's follow the Spirit's leading in every part of our lives. And that's basically what it is, right? I'm choosing to kill that and I'm choosing to follow Jesus. And that's actually what it is, you know, and as Dave said, I have to learn how to teach people how to apply that. But for me, I read that and go, yep, that's actually it. That is it. Jack: Yeah. DC: Verse 16, so I say walk by the Spirit and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. So the answer is, I will not gratify the desires of the flesh if I walk in step with the Spirit. So I'm often not focusing on the negative. I've to be sober and vigilant because my adversary, the devil, roams around like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. Whom he may devour is those that are walking in the flesh giving room for it. Rebecca Connett: Mm-hmm. DC: walk in the Spirit, he may not devour. So if you want to ⁓ walk in the Spirit, you won't gratify the desires of the flesh. So avoid gratifying the desires of the flesh by walking in step with the Spirit of God and the Word of God. That is, focus there. Keep all of your heart focused there and be attentive to the temptations or the difficulties of anything else. Rebecca Connett: which is it's such a simple thing. So many people are trying to do that but they're actually not spending time with God and I think we we underestimate the power of just day by day being in the word praying praying in tongues. I mean I know you know we're at Pentecostal Church. We fully believe in this but how often do we neglect that? Jack: Mm. Yes. Rebecca Connett: yet the Bible says when you pray in tongues it builds up, strengthens your inner man, your spiritual side to actually strengthen us for this fight. And I think just going for a walk and praying in tongues the whole time, underestimate the power of what actually is happening at that point to then stare down that sin DC: Mmph. Rebecca Connett: stare down that temptation and have the strength to say no, not by your own sheer willpower, by the power of the Holy Spirit within, you know, he doesn't demand something of us, and then not give us the ability to do that. He actually gives us the power to do it, he gives us the strength to do it. And there's such hope in that, right. Jack: ⁓ DC: Thank Jack: ⁓ but I I sense we're gonna need to do a series on Galatians at some point, Dave. Is it with the challenge not the challenge, but the point of that scripture too, right? Is like that we are to walk in step with the spirit. How many believers are trying to force the spirit to walk in step with what they want? Rebecca Connett: ⁓ yeah. DC: ⁓ say it again, that'll preach. Jack: Right. And I I think to sum it all up, like even looking at Romans seven that you touched on yesterday, Bex, it when you look at it in totality, there are parts where Paul ⁓ suggests, you know, back to what we're talking about before, that in some ways it's easy. Like I'm dead, my sin is dead and I am new. And it's very black and white. And then a couple of verses later, he's like, ⁓ I do what I don't want to do, and I don't do what I do want to do, and it's ⁓ all that to say, I wonder if he's going, There's room for us all here. Some struggle more than others. But where does he land? Yeah. Thanks be to God who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord. Is like there's room for us all, but ultimately it is the power of Christ and ⁓ and that is our great deliverance. Rebecca Connett: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. DC: Yes. How good is the freedom? How good is the freedom? Like how liberating is being free in Christ, not under the dictates of the enemy or your flesh. And then how good is it? It's just, it's not lost on me how good it is for my family. How good it is for my wife, how good it is for my kids, how good it is for my church and my community. This is life and peace in Christ Jesus and it's best for everyone. Rebecca Connett: Mm. Mm. Jack: So Dave, who who gets the layup of preaching Galatians five when that series comes around? DC: Galatians 5 is gonna be me. I am preaching Galatians 5. I'm not kidding. Rebecca Connett: That is so not fair. Jack: Right. That's not fair. I'll take two, actually. I would never get a tattoo. I'm not sure how it aligns with ⁓ some of the earlier books in the Bible. That's a conversation for another day. But if it if I was to ⁓ succumb to that temptation, it would probably be Galatians two twenty. That would that would be my tattoo. Rebecca Connett: Yeah. Galatians 220. Yeah. DC: I've been crucified with Christ. I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. And the life I now live, I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me. ⁓ gorgeous. Yeah, you can preach that. I'll get five. We'll leave the others to Bex. Jack: There it is. Very good. ⁓ okay. Well we've got a few more minutes. What what else is there's a few other things doing the rounds. There's a census. There's ⁓ there's there's government conversations around giving through trusts, there's a ⁓ what a men's event. I don't know what does that men's ministry have a ma have a name? Where what sh what shall we click on? Rebecca Connett: ⁓ hang on, Jack. Can you hear me? DC: Look, I'll do the MensaVet real quick. We were going to do it this... ⁓ Can now. Rebecca Connett: Hang on, before you do, can you guys hear me? I've had all kinds of internet issues during this conversation. So I've got one more thing to say about Roman seven. Is that okay? Is that okay? DC: ⁓ wow. Jack: ⁓ okay. We're not editing this, but yeah, keep going. Rebecca Connett: Okay, good. just there was one other thing I wanted to say that I didn't say is that the whole point of Romans, he wrote Romans because he was so stinking frustrated that he couldn't come visit them. He'd been trying to go and visit this church over and over and over again. He refers to it in the Book of Romans. We know about it from the Book of Acts. He was trying to get to Rome and he couldn't get there. He did this whole, you know, he actually got himself arrested because he was like, well, if I can't get there, then I'm going to go on the Roman Empire's dime, you know, when they arrest me and I'm going to appeal to Caesar and then they have to send me to Caesar, right? Because he wanted to get to Rome. Exactly. Or on a boat. But here's the point I want to make around this is that we sometimes forget that God doesn't just think in our timeliness, right? Jack: Cheap cheap public transport in the back of a wagon. Rebecca Connett: So Paul's frustration is actually our greatest blessing. If he had not been so frustrated that he couldn't go to Rome, he never like he never would have written Romans. We would not have Romans today if God had answered Paul's prayer back then, right? Because he he couldn't go is the whole reason he wrote Romans, which is why we have Romans, you know? And so I think that that just reminds me that I don't see the full picture that God sees and God's picture is not just in my lifetime. It's generational. It's long, you know, in our case, 2000 years. And so if there's frustrations in your life, understand that there's a bigger picture that God actually might be out working that you can't even conceive. Paul couldn't have conceived that in the year, you know, 2026 would be doing this series on Romans and being so blessed by it. out of something that he was so frustrated by. you know, Paul's frustration is our blessing, and I think that's really encouraging as well. There you go, that's my last thing that didn't make it. Jack: There you go. But well it yeah, it's it's deep, but it is helpful, right? Because it gives context. Like Paul's imploring it's his like his his final ⁓ not his final, but his one if you had to get one thing across, it's like this big this big letter. This is the one thing and it's it's all things in one. But ⁓ yeah, great. Okay. Dave, she she rudely interrupted you, Dave. We did let her. ⁓ but where were you up to, Dave? DC: That is G. at the men's bonfire, there'll be ⁓ gourmet sausage sizzle, like don't think Bunnings, but it's gonna be bigger than that. And I wanna share with all of the men. So all of the men from high school age up, we're gonna talk about some pretty serious men's stuff about actually walking this journey of flesh and spirit with some pretty unique men's ⁓ only topics. And so that will be on the 15th. was gonna be at Madowee on the 8th, but we've had to bump that for a couple of reasons. And so we'll be on the 15th at Cardiff at Brad Nancarrow's place. So registrations, just reach out to the office, send a text and email a carrier pigeon. don't know, men respond to the email that we've sent you. If you didn't get the email, then let us know your email address this Sunday, but we'll let you know the address there. I'm gonna talk men's stuff, because it's important for us to win in this area with some particular unique men's. type of topics. Jack: Okay. Cool. ⁓ Bex, you sent us you sent us all ⁓ an email, or I think it was you, y at least had your name on it, about the upcoming census. And you're probably going to send us another one about the upcoming. But okay, there is a school of thought that says I don't need to participate in elections. I'm just going to cop the $50 fine because it's not worth standing in line for a couple of hours with all the other, you know, ⁓ citizens, let's call them. Or I'm not going to pay for parking, I'll just wing it and I might get the sixty dollar fine or I saved six bucks. Or the census is coming. I don't want to give the government any more information than they already have. So how do you think about the census? And therefore how should we think about the census? Rebecca Connett: Yeah, look, the census is helpful and I will preface by saying I don't understand a bit of this, but it is helpful because it gives them a picture of groups in Australia and the percentage of people who believe certain things. And there is a push at the moment by some group, I don't actually know who it is, to encourage people who would have said, ⁓ yeah, I'm a Christian, but they're not actually church dollars. There's a push to make them say, identify as not Christian. And the reason for that is the government looks at that and goes, ⁓ okay, we can tailor, you know, for who's the biggest proportion. And ⁓ so when it comes to the census, it's really important we do it so that we can give, you know, the more Christians say, yes, I am a Christian. or I'm a Pentecostal, you know, then it actually gives them an idea of, okay, this is a major voting bloc, right, in this country. And so the bigger voting blocs get a bit more, they listen to, right? Yes. ⁓ And so I think that's where it's really important when it comes to politics wider, there has been such a lie. Jack: Representation. Representation. Rebecca Connett: And it's a lie from the pit of hell that Christians shouldn't be involved in politics. And it's so wrong. If you look at our nation, it was built by Christians. Our constitution is a Christian constitution. It's incredible. And the more apathetic Christians are, the worse our nation will be. And I actually have been thinking of pondering that, you know, even in terms of people, Christians will often say, you know, we need to repent on behalf of our nation for our sins or da da. But I actually feel like as a church, we need to repent for our apathy and our lack of engagement in the political square. Because if you look at our nation and you're not happy with the way it's going, you know, with the sexually explicit stuff they're teaching our children in schools and all that, we have been silent. there's been other groups that have not been silent. They've been very active, activist and they're pushing things through into our schools and into our legislation and into all these things and we've just Christians have just sat on their hands and gone ⁓ there's nothing we can do. That's just wrong. If you care about your nation, you gotta be involved. You've actually gotta be a voice and I think those early Christians who were drafting the constitution for a nation and what our nation was going to be would just be horrified if they saw Christians today go ⁓ no we shouldn't be involved in it. There's lives at stake here there are lives at stake and yes you can't institute morality you can't legislate that on an individual but for our nation you 100 % can actually say hey this is who we are as a nation this is we're going to actually be godly as a nation and the only way you're going to get that is for Christians to be involved. Not just politically with your vote, but with your letters, with your emails, with your voice, and with people actually Christians in parliament. We need it. ⁓ We need them in parliament as political representatives, but we also need men and women of influence in the ear of our politicians. And as I pray for our nation, I'm just finding myself drawn over and over again to pray that if you know the story of Esther, Jack: Mm. Rebecca Connett: praying for Haman's to be exposed. Now, in the story of Esther, Haman was evil and he was trying to commit genocide in the nation. He was an evil, evil man and his plot was exposed and so I'm praying that Haman's, now he wasn't the king, he was the voice and the ear of the king. So, I'm praying that Haman's get exposed and then I'm praying for Esther's and Mordecai's to rise and Esther and Mordecai again were not the king but they were in the ear of the king and by their influence and their voice in the air of the king, they brought righteousness into the nation. And so that's what I'm finding myself praying is not just for the politicians, but the esters and the Mordecai's, that people with the ear of the king to be able to have a voice. So very passionate about that. think our nation needs it. DC: The key thing is that if the godly disengage in the public square, all that's left is the ungodly. And there are some Christians that want to avoid anything controversial because lest we offend, there are some such, there are some absolutely horrendous policies or the way that our community runs that Rebecca Connett: Yeah. DC: If people think that's normal, we should be offensive towards that. If that's offensive for us to stand up for children, botched abortions, born alive, left to die in a bucket, for Christians to their hand up, well, we did not say something because we might offend. That little child deserves defense. That little child deserves defense. And if that means to raise that someone's going to get offended, well, so be it. And when the godly disengage from public discourse, Rebecca Connett: Mm. Yeah. DC: ungodly things happen that affect not just individual lives, they affect communities and they affect our nation. So the census is important to be involved. Politics is important to be involved. I am lining up currently a ⁓ beer with my local member because I said, could you cross the floor please on this matter? And they said, ⁓ they said, well, ⁓ Rebecca Connett: Yeah. Yeah. DC: look, I don't want to stand in anything to a woman's right to choose. And I said, what do you say we have a beer over this topic? And I said, how come? I actually sent it to email back going, how come you're just such a good bloke, but also you've got so many views that I think are just like so bad. And I said, you and I should ⁓ have a beer and talk about it. He goes, I'm in. So I'm like, I'm lining it up. But if the ungodly are the only ones involved, This is what happens. These decisions are handed down and it affects people. Rebecca Connett: Yeah, I think the thing about not wanting to offend is I believe it's a misplaced empathy. You know, it comes from a real really kind heart and a kind place because people genuinely care for people. But it's a misplaced empathy. And it's also a it's a it's virtue signaling kindness. So it's wanting to appear kind by not offending a person. But actually, the end result of not speaking out because you don't offend a person means babies die or kids have their lives destroyed. ⁓ And so you've got the compassion but it's misplaced that where it's aimed is the wrong place. And so I think we just have to keep that in mind. Right. With the way that we see all that kind of stuff. Jack: Yes. And I also think it's a s it's a skill deficiency in that it's it's there is an art and a skill to bringing challenging, sometimes uncomfortable or disagreeable topics in a way that doesn't create strife or discord and but that's a skill. And the most encouraging thing about that is skills can be learned and developed and practiced. So you don't have to sit back and go, I'm just an empathetic type and this is too hard, or I'm just a bulldozer, I'm a bull in a china sh. DC: Yeah. Jack: There are skills that we can all learn and practice that often happen rubbing shoulders with folks around a dinner table and breaking bread together. You practice those skills and it becomes much more palatable to have contentious conversations in a way that doesn't just blow up and you're worried about your security at home. Like you can have pleasant conversations to your point, Dave. Like you can disagree with people and still be able to share a drink. Like there is an art and a skill that you can. Learn. That's the encouraging piece. Rebecca Connett: So true. Well said. Jack: So census is coming. ⁓ put something on there, something Christian related. ⁓ check the emails from Bex last week. There might be another one. There might not. Who knows? Just it it matters that you identify as Christian, Pentecostal, International Network of Churches. Just identify, please. DC: Exactly. Jack: Okay. Well, I recommend done. It's time for a feed. ⁓ thank you. Looking forward looking forward to Romans eight this weekend, Dave. DC: It is. So am I. Can't wait, it's my favourite. I can't believe Bex didn't preach in that. Jack: ⁓ and folks, ⁓ jump in the jump in the comments, YouTube, Spotify, wherever you like. ⁓ happy to answer comments, ⁓ throw some throw some jibes at Dave. ⁓ maybe you can guess where he'll be. DC: We should be collecting curly questions and then see who's got the thing. Rebecca Connett: Yeah, I would actually love to hear what people would love us to speak about. think that's a great idea. Yeah. Jack: Curly questions? Hot takes, ⁓ anything, anything you like. So jump in the comments. We'll see if we can unpack them over the coming weeks. ⁓ thank you, Pastor Dave. Thank you, Pastor Rebecca. Bye-bye. DC: Thank you. Rebecca Connett: And he's on. Catch ya.