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Mini: Nail Biting · Why We Do What We Do

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You're listening to Why We Do what we Do. Welcome
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: to Why We Do what we Do?
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Mini.
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: I'm your host Abraham and I'm Shane. We are a
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: psychology podcast. We talk about the things that humans and
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: non human animals do, and sometimes we talk about the
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: habits that we do that we maybe wish that we
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: wouldn't do so much because they kind of suck in
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: our bad.
• 0:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and so today we're gonna cover nail biting, which
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: is something that I do often.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, same, same, It is going to be some personal
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: journey going on here during this small discussion, which if
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: you're joining us for the first time and you hear
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: me say Mini, and you're like, I thought this was
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: called why we do what we do, not why we
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: do what we do? Mini, It's because we do these
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: short form episodes once a week in which we do
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: quick dive into a topic, get in there, explain it
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: to the best of our ability, and then get out
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: and let you go on about your day and your
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: week until our full length episode, which will come out
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: on Wednesday. Because we released like that, like clockwork, so dependable.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: We is, yes, yes, we is.
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: But yeah, if you're joining us for the first time, welcome.
• 1:18
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• 1:21
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• 1:31
  Speaker 3: tell a friend, and I'll talk more about those at
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: the end of this discussion. I think that's about it
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: before we dive into our topic. Unless I'm forgetting anything.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: No, I think that covers it. I think we can
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: get right into.
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: It, all right, let's do this rock and roll, all right.
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: So, if you are not familiar with what nail biting is,
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: nail biting refers to the act of putting your fingers
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: in your disgusting mouth and chewing on your nails with
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: the skin around your nails.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Some people consider it gross. I do it. You probably
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: do it too.
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: I do it.
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: Abraham and I both do it. As a matter of fact,
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: I know I've had this habit for as long as
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: I can remember. Yeah, and this will be maybe TMI
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: for some folks, but I learned that when I was
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: younger and I was breastfeeding, I would scratch my mother
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: and so she would give me a blanket to hold
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: onto while I was breastfeeding, and I would like twist
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: on the blanket and like manipulate the blanket in my hands.
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: And that led to a habit that created, like I
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: twist my pillowcase corners until they come off. Wow, And
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: I do that, Like I do this all the time.
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: So like I'm always kind of like playing with my
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: skin around my nails or like my nails themselves. Like,
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: so I I have maybe a larger habit. That's maybe
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: you know, this isn't therapy, but I have a larger habit.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: I should probably look at.
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: My story is weirdly similar to yours. My mom would
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: also she didn't tell me I scratched, but she would
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: give me a little fuzzy things to manipulate with my hands.
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: And anyway, I also I don't twist much, but I
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: do manipulate the life out of like a like a
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: soda can. If I drink like a sparkling water or
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: something that can, ye, I'll like just mess with the
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: luminium on it for some reason. Yeah, So I do
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: still manipulate quite a bit. And I think part of
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: my learning to drum and now I drum on everything
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: has distracted my hands to doing that.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: Interesting, we have similar stories there and the nail biting,
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: and yes, I'm similar also picking up my nails and
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: the skin around my nails. It's really bad. Yeah, And
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: the problem for people when they do this, it can
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: range from just minor pruning, so you sort of will
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: shape your nails after a bad clipping up through things
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: that are more severe and actually look like self harm,
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: which could be removing your nails entirely or peeling back
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: a lot of skin around that area around your nails.
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: Mine is not that I'm not removing my nails, but
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: there's a lot of damage to the skin around my nails.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No, me too.
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  Speaker 4: I have like no fingertips, yeah, like the very tips.
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: My fingers are like a big callus.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: You know.
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  Speaker 4: I was thinking about this too as I was putting
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: this together, I was like, where did I learn to
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: bite my nails? Because nobody in my family bites their nails.
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: And then I realized, oh, my dad does. My dad
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: bites his nails, so I watched him do it. And
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  Speaker 4: then one time when I was younger, my mom was
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: clipping my nails and actually accidentally hurt me, like clip
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: the skin because I moved or something, and so she
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: was afraid to clip my nails with a nail clipper,
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: so she would she would bite my nails to clip
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: my nails. When I was really young. I remember that
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: until I was old enough to keep my hand steady
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  Speaker 4: and do it myself.
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: Oh wow.
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: So it was like one of those things where I'm like, oh,
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: I know where this comes from. I can like trace
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: my roots back like I can do like a twenty
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  Speaker 4: three a meter my fingernail biting behavior.
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: You know, I actually know where mine comes from. Different
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: different onset for mine. But let's uh, let's get on
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: topic here. If it share No, no, no, that's okay.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: I was, We'll figure it out.
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: No, I think it was good.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: So anika phagia I always have a hard time with
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: these words that we like to put a bunch of
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  Speaker 4: Greek and Latin together. Yeah, anika phasia or a meetsophagia
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  Speaker 4: whatever is a type of self grooming that includes biting
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  Speaker 4: both your fingernails and your toenails. So this is a
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: thing that people do fingernails and toenails, which can lead
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: to infection. So like, if you're biting your nails and
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: you're causing self harm, you're opening wounds, you're doing that.
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  Speaker 4: They it can cause some problems, and it can also
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  Speaker 4: be considered an indicator for other mental health statuses, which
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: we'll talk about. But nail biting itself doesn't actually meet
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: a diagnostic criterion. It's usually maybe a symptom of something
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  Speaker 4: larger or something something different. But that's kind of what
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: was going on here. It's like, we're talking about chewing
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: your fingernails, chewing your toenails and what that might include.
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  Speaker 3: So let's just get right into it. Why does this
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: thing happen? Why do we even bite our pickaud or
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: to our nails? From an evolutionary perspective, doesn't make much sense.
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: I mean, we can't really think of a reason. But
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  Speaker 3: we're also not evolutionary biologists, so we don't necessarily know.
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: I will say that I think one thing is it
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  Speaker 3: is fairly common for all not all, but like a
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  Speaker 3: lot of species who have a part of their body
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  Speaker 3: that grows really fast, particularly if you think of like claws, fingernails, hair, Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: to trim it back as it grows. So animals have
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  Speaker 3: claws will often scratch at things, and that kind of
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  Speaker 3: at the end of it will help sort of keep
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  Speaker 3: it at length if you will, so they're not growing
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: into these harsh circles. Sure, beavers will chew on wood apparently,
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: as I understand it, that helps grind their teeth back
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: a little bit.
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  Speaker 2: Their teeth.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, there are some horses. I believe that wild horses
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  Speaker 3: that when they chew grass, their teeth essentially will grow
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: and definitely and so chewing grass helps keep their teeth
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  Speaker 3: at a manageable sort of length. So I think there
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  Speaker 3: is some precedent for when you have a part of
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  Speaker 3: your body that grows fast to try and grind it
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  Speaker 3: back a little bit, or have a way of pruning
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  Speaker 3: it back a little bit. But there are some things
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  Speaker 3: that we also know specifically that might be unique to
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  Speaker 3: humans as far as their reasons for biting their nails.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, so humans might buite their nails for because they're
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  Speaker 4: nervous and it's self soothing behavior. Maybe they're having an
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  Speaker 4: emotional response and again they're self soothing. They've got anxiety
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  Speaker 4: related to imperfect nails. And this comes up with folks
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  Speaker 4: that might identify as having OCD, a certain type of
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  Speaker 4: OCD in a certain type of compulsion there. Yeah, people
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  Speaker 4: do it because they're bored. People do it because they imitate.
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  Speaker 4: There's lots of reasons why so. People do it because
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  Speaker 4: they like the way it feels, they like the way
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  Speaker 4: it tastes, you know, stuff like that.
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  Speaker 2: So you might see that come up a little bit too.
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  Speaker 3: We also know that many folks who bite their nails
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  Speaker 3: do it without thinking about it or even realizing they're
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  Speaker 3: doing it. Sometimes they might do it to self soothe
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  Speaker 3: they get attention from others, while others might do it
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  Speaker 3: instead of aggressing against someone else, so like they are
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  Speaker 3: feeling worked up, but rather than act on that, they
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  Speaker 3: are sort of like biting their own nails instead. Then
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  Speaker 3: think of there's actually quite a few instances of people
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  Speaker 3: who will do some form of self restraint when they
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  Speaker 3: are otherwise upset or agitated, which might look like squeezing
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  Speaker 3: themselves very tight, or biting their hand or biting their fingernails.
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  Speaker 3: So there is an element of like giving yourself something
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  Speaker 3: to do when you're at a sort of heightened state,
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  Speaker 3: if you will. And so this is an opportunity for
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: you to find something to do while we run an ad.
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: Perhaps during the AD you were chewing your nails. I know,
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: I was no I wasn't. But let's continue on where
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: we left off as it relates to nail biting behaviors.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I mentioned this earlier.
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  Speaker 4: Some other people may do this because it's part of
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  Speaker 4: a set of behaviors related to OCD or perfectionism, Like
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: they don't like the way their nail is shaped, they
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  Speaker 4: don't like the way it looks, so they kind of
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  Speaker 4: trim it down, they chew it up, and there's maybe
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  Speaker 4: or like hanging skin around and nail, so you might
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  Speaker 4: see that a little bit. So there's lots of reasons
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  Speaker 4: why humans do this. But have no fear because if
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: you're worried about doing this, if you are somebody who
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: is a nail bier who has this quote unquote habitual
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  Speaker 4: behavior and you're struggling with this and you're concerned, there
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: are ways that you can stop, and here are just
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  Speaker 4: a couple of them.
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  Speaker 3: One thing that you can do is because often what
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: might be happening in some of these situations that there
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: is some mental health situation that you were dealing with,
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: which is not going to be true for everyone who
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: bites their nails, by the way, but for those of
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: you for whom that is the case, you could go
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: to therapy that might help you sort out some psychological
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: issues and causes for nail biting triggers and urges. That
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: could even include some things like habit reversal. And I
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: guess to be fair, like there are people who help
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: in the space of behavior change even when you don't
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: have like an underline mental health condition. That that's perfectly
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: reasonable to want to change your behavior in a way
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: that's more valuable for you and not also have an
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: underlying mental health condition. That's fine. Like, there are people
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: who like wish they had better self control around sweets,
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  Speaker 3: And it's not like they can't control themselves, they just
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: wish they were better at it, and so they might
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: enroll the help of someone like a therapist to help
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: get them into performing in like a pattern that is
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: more adaptable for the lifestyle they like to have, or
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: someone who wants exercise more. Again, it's not like being
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: sedentary is pathological inherently anyway. Those are just some things
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  Speaker 3: I think as far as there is one strategy for
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: things you can do.
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, another one is practicing like actual self care and
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: relaxation during your day to day. You can do some
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: things like mindfulness practice you can do things like eating enough,
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: getting enough sleep, monitoring the stimulants you take, because sometimes
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: people might do that when they're over stimulated, they're feeling
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: like you know, like for me, if I am, I
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: know that when I'm overstimulated, I'll start tapping my foot
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: more or I'll start fidgeting more. So I'll start doing
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: that and noticing I'll engage in some of these behaviors
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: like that. So that may be something going on. And
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: if you're kind of attending to your basic needs, it
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: may alleviate the need to chew your nails.
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  Speaker 3: Fair enough, you can find a social support buddy, someone
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  Speaker 3: who will hold you accountable and I help identify and
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: pinpoint when you are biting on your nails or manipulating
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: your nails, which feeds into like an overall other strategy.
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna get you here in a moment, but yeah,
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: this one, I think you want to be make sure
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: that the expectations are really clear, because I've done this
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  Speaker 3: and found it horrifically unworkable. Because the person when I
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: was like, hey, I'm trying to quit butting my nails,
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: and they decided that what that meant is they need
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: to be like physically block me from biting my nails
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: or doing anything to them, and I really did not
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: like that. Yeah, so having expectations set can be an
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: important aspect of this if you are going to enroll
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: someone else, which could be really helpful, but know what
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: both of you expect from that contract.
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: Sure that makes sense. You can also apply a nail
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: biting deterrent polish to your nails, and this is actually
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: something that I've seen for thumb sucking as well. Yeah,
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: this is something that's like a little bit more I
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: don't want to say invasive, but like it can be
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: kind of unpleasant because the nail polish is bitter tasting
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: and it's gonna remind you that you don't want to
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: bite your nails all that much. You're gonna put your
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: finger in your mouth and you're gonna go like, you're
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: gonna think it's gross. So, but that is something that
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: is often used in this type of thing where maybe
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: somebody's putting their hands or their fingers into their mouth
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: for different things, thumb sucking, nail biting, you know, stuff
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: like that.
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: Unfortunately, some people will work through the bitter taste, so
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: this is not a session for everyone. But but it
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: might help. Yeah, at the very least, there's something called
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: the picture comparison procedure referencing Craig twenty ten, where the
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: interventionists and listed asocial support to compare images of non
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: nail bitten hands to their current hands. They could sort
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: of see the relation between what things look like when
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: you are treating them well and when you were eating
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: your fingers. Yeah, and that also had an incentive procedure
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: in place in which for an absence of biting you
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: would receive some reward. For those of you behavior analyst
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: nerds out there, this is a dro YEP or differential
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: reinforcement of other behaviors type procedure. In this the results
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: showed that the person biting the nails went from sixteen
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: episodes per day to less than two per day within
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: a two month period.
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so the rates dropped pretty rapidly. With that, it
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: was a dro with a token economy in place, so
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: like they earned tokens every time they didn't bite their
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: nails in an hour long period, so like it was
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: a for a full hour was their session, and it
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: was successful.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: It seemed so cool.
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: So when I was first learning about behavior change procedures,
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: I decided to put in a bunch of contingencies for myself,
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: but for me to be making database decisions and determine
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: whether or not my behavior change procedures were working for myself.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: This is like I'm an underground psychology learning about this
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: for the first time. I'm all excited to try and
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: stop biting manails and so this sure, I was collecting
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: data on my nail biting and during baseline, my nail
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: biting dropped to zero. And it was just because recording
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: data about my own behavior brought my awareness to that
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: behavior and ended up reducing the amount of biting that
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: I was doing, which goes back to as we mentioned
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: the habit reversal thing that is one of sometimes the
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: only critical element of habit reversal is just awareness training. Yeah,
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: not for everyone and not for all circumstances, but like
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: that was what all it took for me. And then
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: years later I started to pick up the habit again.
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: I once again started tracking my own behavior and it
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: once again dropped off to zero. It was like that effective,
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: simply to track my own behavior, my nail biting went
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: all the way down to zero. That was my anecdotal experience.
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying that's going to work for everybody, but
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: it is a very like low cost, low intrusive intervention.
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: I just carry out a little like little tiny notebooks
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: in my pocket and whenever i'd bite man nails, I'd
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: pull it out and I'd tally and that was it.
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: That was all I did. Yeah, and so I had this.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: This has worked incredibly incredibly well for me over the time. Yeah,
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: And so if people want to try and let me
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: know how it goes, feel free. Like I said, I
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: feel like I don't usually want to spense specific advice
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: like that on our podcast, but that one's like, what's
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: the harm? Who are you hurting here?
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not like an intervention.
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: It's like just collecting data and then that itself serves
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: as an intervention by accident.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. So and I'm not saying this is going
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: to work. It might not, but it did work for me.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: So I'm just that was my experience with it.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: But love that.
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: Do you have any any specific strategies that really worked
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: for you.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Nope. I still bite my nails. I still do it
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: every day.
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: I have learned that I have a threshold, so at
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: some point in time when my finger's hurt. I moved
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: to a different finger, so like that's I guess maybe
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: that's my thing is like I just move across my
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: fingers because I bite all of my fingers and all
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: of them so it's really mostly not my nails, though,
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: it's the skin around my nails.
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: Mine's the same.
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so that's that's my issue. I haven't really
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: figured out a solution. I noticed that I go a
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: long periods without it, but I do it pretty.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: Much all day. Okay, so I haven't really looked at
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: how to fix that.
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: Mine is pretty much concentrated on my thumbs. The rest
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: of it. My fingers might get some of it, but
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: my thumbs really take the brunt of the abuse. Your
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: poor thumbs, My poor thumbs, so which you know those
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: are important. I don't know. I should not, that should
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: not be so mean to my thumbs.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: But all right, did a whole episode on that.
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: We did do a whole episode on thumbs. All right, Well,
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: that was fun rambling sort of a discussion here, but
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: I think we're a good point to close out this one. Yeah,
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: nail biting generally not the greatest thing for you. There
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: are some reasons that we do it and some things
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: that you can do about it. And hopefully you got
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: something useful out of this. But is there anything else
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: you'd like to add or that I forgot before we
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: wrap up?
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: No, I think that covers it all right.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: As I mentioned at the top, if you want to
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: support us, one way you can do that is by
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: heading over to Patreon. If you do that, you will
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: get access. Depending on what tier at which you sign up,
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: you'll get access to things like early episodes, add free episodes, notes,
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: bonus content, some announcements, sometimes polls. There's also a disc
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: community that we have over there, and on our full
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: length episodes, I will read the name of all of
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: our supporters who are supporting us financially over on Patreon,
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: and we really appreciate all of you and all of
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: them who do that. In addition, you can reach out
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: to us directly tell me your experiences with nail biting
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: by emailing us at info at wwdwwdpodcast dot com. And
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: we look forward to hearing from people, so please feel
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: free to reach out. Well you really enjoy it. Thank
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: you so much to my team of people without whom
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: I could not make this podcast happen. Thank you for
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: your notes today, Shane, and for recording with me today anytime.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for having.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: Me, and of course thank you all for listening. All right,
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: I think that's about it. We're good to hop off
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: this one.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: I think we are all right. This is Abraham's Shane.
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: Why We Do What We Do Mini is out.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Bye. You've been listening to Why We Do What We Do.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: You can learn more about this and other episodes by
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: going to wwdwwdpodcast dot com.
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: Thanks for listening, and we hope you have an awesome
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: day