Latest / Love Matters With Leeza Mangaldas / Money & matrimony: How to talk bills with your bae ft. Shivani & Pawan Agarwal

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Money & matrimony: How to talk bills with your bae ft. Shivani & Pawan Agarwal · Love Matters With Leeza Mangaldas

• 0:00
  We need to understand that finances are very important portion of compatibility itself. Every
• 0:07
  married couple should be friends with each other. I mean they should behave like
• 0:12
  friends, because when you have that friendship, it's very very easy to have
• 0:17
  difficult conversations money. It's not something you're likely to talk about on the first
• 0:23
  date or even on the second. But considering how crucial financial compatibility is to
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  a happy and healthy partnership, the question is when and how do we have
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  these conversations. Hey everyone, I'm Evelyn Charma and this is Love Matters,
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  a podcast about relationship topics that matter to you and me, a collaboration from
• 0:50
  DW and Indian Express and today, dear listeners, we're talking about combining love
• 0:57
  and money. Awkward but pretty unavoidable if you want to be in a committed,
• 1:03
  long term relationship. Yet not something we talk about very openly because well,
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  no one really teaches you how to have these tricky conversations. But never
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  fear. That's what we're here for. We've invited the perfect pair on the
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  show today to help us navigate money matters in relationships and maybe even give some
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  tips to help you put that hot armed coin in the right place without further
• 1:30
  ado, Welcome to the show. Vanni and Pavan agerval Hi. Thank you,
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  it's my pleasure. Well, guys, for those who don't know Chavanni
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  and Pava too well, they have been together since twenty twenty. Chavanni works
• 1:48
  in the education sector and Pavan is a financial advisor. Together they have already
• 1:53
  co authored a book called The Little Book on Financial Clarity, which was public
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  in February twenty twenty two. And if I'm not mistaken, the book was
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  released at your wedding right. Yes, wow, that's a big review.
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  So you guys worked together for two years, and those two years you decided
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  let's write a book on financial matters together. How did that come abat?
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  So what happened was when we started dating. Dating, we started getting to
• 2:30
  know each other. We started talking about a profession work slowly and steadily,
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  like you rightly mentioned that if you want to have a long lasting relationship,
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  so you need to discuss the finances. So initially we started off with small
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  things, but as in when you know, Shivanni and we sat down,
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  we talked, and I noticed that Shivanni was missing the financial planning puzzle.
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  Shivani, why don't you add to it. Yeah, So one thing that
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  we realized when we were talking about a work was that I was working since
• 3:02
  a couple of years earning. I was having finance salary, but I still
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  had not figured out my financial planning aspect correctly. I was mostly dependent on
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  what my father, my brother, you know, we're taking care of.
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  So when we start, when we're discussing all of this, we realize that,
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  you know how, you know, grave this problem is. I was
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  earning money, but I was not knowing how to handle it. So then,
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  of course pub and started helping me out. I started understanding more concepts,
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  and in that process we also realized that this is a larger problem.
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  So when I helped Chivanni with her financial planning, she told me, she
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  asked me that, you know, why don't you help my friends also they
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  went to college together. And then I thought, okay, let me prepare
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  something, and I started preparing a document. And because I have been in
• 3:52
  the financial services industry for quite some time now, so I knew that there's
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  a gap. But I always thought the youth of the country, you know,
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  people who are doing their graduation and masters, they don't have this problem
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  because typically my clients are businessmen who are not so new to the education system.
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  But when I interacted with her friends, I realized that somehow the financial
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  planning, the financial clarity is not there in the education system, that's right,
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  Yeah, yeah, So when I started putting together the document more so,
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  you know, after I think two weeks, I realized that it's becoming
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  very big for one or two our session, and it's taking a shape of
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  a book. And because Vanni had the writing experience, I shared that document
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  with her and that's when we decided, because that you know, if you
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  really want to help people and want to spread the message of financial freedom at
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  large, why don't we collaborate on a project and write a book about it
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  and we'll see what happens. We're not really sure that, you know,
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  we'll get the kind of response that we have received, but we just wanted
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  to do with whatever limited capacity we could. That's awesome, and as you
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  rightly mentioned, we reviewed the book or did the first appearance of the book
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  on our wedding day. So yeah, that's super cool. And I can
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  see that you have together. Then you've done a lot of hard work on
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  your relationship. When it comes to money and finances in in the time before
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  your wedding, since you released the book at your wedding, how important do
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  you think it is to discuss these kind of money matters well before you get
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  married. Oh, very important. I mean it's one of the things,
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  you know, Like people say that love is something that starts the relationship,
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  but then going forward to when you start a family and you stayed together day
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  to day, money is involved in as simple as you know, buying grocery
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  is all just having dinner. Yeah, yeah, money is involved, so
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  you cannot just shy away from it. So I would say it's really important
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  to talk about money way before you think about getting into a serious relationship.
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  So where where do you start? How do you approach this? How do
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  you like? You know? Because I guess a lot of people think like,
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  oh, no, you know, I'm going to kill our romance if
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  I start talking about such technical things. How do you you know? When
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  did you, for example, have the conversation about, look, I make
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  this much money and this is what I can contribute to our future family,
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  And then you know your partner said okay, and I make this much money
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  and I want to contribute this much. When did you have this conversation and
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  how did you bring it up? So I'll tell you in our case,
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  it happened after engagement. After we were engaged, we had a few subtle
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  things noticing. You know, things were discussed on a more simpler level about
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  what I just spending, habits or value of money, the value of money.
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  But once we thought that we should move ahead, we got engaged,
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  and I think after our engagement we had this discussion that how much do you
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  make? And I mean, I remember Chivanni had asked me that why do
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  you want to get married? I mean, it's a very simple question.
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  Why do you want to get married? Now? Were twenty six twenty seven?
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  So I told her that right now, currently, I think the amount
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  of money I'm making, I've reached a certain level where I can take care
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  of a family, I can start a family. So it was because of
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  this reason that I think now I should focus on my family life and personal
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  life. Okay, so you had a bit of a conversation about how much
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  each of you earns before engagement. Was it like over at dinner or like,
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  you know, how can you give someone advice, maybe a little tip
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  to someone who kind of feels like, Hey, in our relationship, we
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  should be at this point? Now, how do I bring it up?
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  I'll tell you. So what they're trying to ask is how do you get
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  the conversation started about such questions? Right am? I? Yes, yes,
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  I think you know, just jumping into the numbers is not the right
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  way. You know, tell me everything. How much do you make?
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  And this is what myself income is definitely not going to work out. But
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  what I would recommend is because you are thinking about, you know, getting
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  together and spending the live together, one thing that you can do is is
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  a very simple exercise as a couple, as a future married couple. You
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  can sit down, you can write down five things that you want to do
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  together in future, and then you have a financial number to it, and
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  then schedule it on your calendar, like you want to Europe Toodchiani in twenty
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  twenty seven, and I says how much money it's going to cost? And
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  we are going to save for this in so many years And because now you
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  have a shared vision, now you have a shared goal. Okay, So
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  financial stability is clearly a major concern for most people when building a relationship.
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  I know it was for me and there are a million things to talk about
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  when it comes to money and marriage, and so I want to cover a
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  few in this rapid fire round. And I want you guys to just say
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  one answer and we'll move on to the next one. Yes, oh no,
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  or you know are you guys, yes? Yeah, So I'm going
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  to read the line out and you guys just tell me one answer, okay,
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  and then we'll move to the next one. We won't dig into it
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  too deep, all right, all right? First, separate bank account or
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  a joint account. I'm joined, oh okay um. Second, track spending
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  in a shared spreadsheet or let it lose. You have to track it,
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  track it definitely, okay. Um. Third, make partner nominee of your
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  personal bank account, yes or no? Yes, m hmm. Saving or
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  investing investing, saving, don't into investments? Okay. I think you guys
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  need to get it more clear on this one in your relationship. Um.
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  And then finally, the number one financial red flag in a relationship. So
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  for me, the red flag is when the people involved in that relationship,
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  the couple, they don't talk about money. They If I had met Sivanni
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  and there was absolutely no community or no conversation about money and the financial aspects
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  because it's a it's an important part of life. So for me, that
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  would have been a red flag because I would want a partner who sits with
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  me, talks about it, plans it, and you know, design that
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  aspect of life together. Right, that's a that's a good answer. Yeah,
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  I think Chivanni also has a red flag. So I would say when
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  you know, money in the relationship becomes like a means or the only means
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  to show love affection, or it's like a gesture showing thing, you know.
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  So I think that's a very big red flag. Relationships are way beyond
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  just the money aspect. You know, what I thought was a red flag.
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  But then you know, my husband and I are deep into our relationship,
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  have the second child come. Anyway, I think it's a red flag
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  that you spend money on coffees every morning, coffee machine. But anyway,
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  that's just on a side note. Well, now for a couple of scenarios
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  that are a bit more complicated. Okay, what if the two people in
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  a relationship have really different ideas about how to spend or safe money, Like
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  what if you don't agree with your partners spending habits, like you know,
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  spending money on coffee every day rather than getting a coffee machine. Are you
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  doomed or how can you sort this kind of you know issue? And so
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  definitely you're not doomed because different people bring different flavors to the relationship, so
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  it's good that you one person is different from their partner. So there's no
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  problem as such as long as there is trust and that space is given where
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  the person can spend and save accordingly. But of course there are a few
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  ground rules that as a couple you both have to agree on and then just
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  stick to it. I mean, of course you trust your partner, that's
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  why you are in a relationship, and that trust should also be extended to
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  the financial aspect too, right, right, maybe making budgets could be a
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  good idea about and when he gets listening, yes, what else? What
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  else? Are some tips of how to tack all this kind of issue.
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  So, like I was mentioning earlier that you know, every couple should at
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  least sit together once a month and make a monthly budget, decide what are
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  the expenses going to be and also and more importantly, decide where are they
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  going to put their surplus money? Surplus investments in Yeah, so that they
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  both are on a regular basis communicating, and they both can somewhat come the
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  future old yeah, and they both can somewhat come together, you know,
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  from their different point of views and have a more common, more aligned way
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  of spending and saving. Yes. Yes, In fact, this will also
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  bring in discipline automatically. So if somebody you know has a problem, that's
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  maybe the partner is not you know, maybe spending on something which they do
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  not like. If you're already saving for something, like you know, you're
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  investing in something, so already things are in check. Yes. Yeah.
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  Well my husband and I, for example, we got married, um well,
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  he was already in his mid thirties, I in my early early early
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  thirties, but both of us m had, of course, you know,
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  more than ten years of our careers and independent lives and independent fine financial situations.
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  Um. And so we decided to do a bit of a marriage preparation
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  course in our engagement, um, which kind of brought together our cultural backgrounds
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  and you know, brought up all the ikey and difficult conversations basically before you're
• 15:18
  married, which I highly recommend, I highly recommend finding you know, a
• 15:22
  great marriage coach, as I like to call her, um to be that
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  independent partner in your marriage. Was just you know, so for you and
• 15:35
  tries to help you figure things out because I feel like if you consult friends
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  or family, they're usually on your side and not on the relationships side.
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  Absolutely, and they should they love you, you know, absolutely, and
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  so yeah, our marriage coach also had a couple of um topics that we
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  discussed around finances, and I think that was a really great way for us
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  to start our marriage life together because I feel like nobody prepares you really for
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  this chapter in your life. But yeah, I think it's amazing that you
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  guys wrote this book because that's also like so easy guys. Um, you
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  know, if you have someone who's getting married, please gift them this book.
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  Yes, this should be in everybody's um you know sort of wedding presents
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  list and just generally, you know, I mean couples can pick up this
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  book. It's such a great starting point to start off a conversation on finances.
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  Like if you don't know how to have this conversation, just get the
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  book and you know, work through it together. Um. So, yeah,
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  what if I have more questions? Obviously, what if one person in
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  the couple earns more than the other, which is usually the case, one
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  will earn more than the other. Um, do you think all bills and
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  costs should be split evenly or according to earning power? Yeah? What do
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  you think? You know? How Yes, so this is a tricky one,
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  and I think this is like an unswered question which everybody has probably these
• 17:19
  days in their mind. Yeah, so just to first like answer your question,
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  like what's the way out? One of the options could be because this
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  would really depend from couple to couple. We also speak with a lot of
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  people around us, UM, and you know, it really depends on case
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  to case. However, one of the like things that work out pretty well
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  is if there are two people who are earning in different you know, proportions,
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  but you have like a common percentage of your income. Yeah, so
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  say both of them can contribute to ten percent. Because see the tables cannot
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  turn any time today. X could be you know, earning more to more
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  or the other partner might be earning more, so that would would be like
• 18:07
  a parity for the couple. Nevertheless, I would like to mention what we
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  kind of believe in is that you know, when you enter a relationship or
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  when you're in a relationship, you really don't think about splitting costs because relationship
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  is way beyond just that numerical number. So as long as each one of
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  you are contributing to the life that you're making it, and it could be
• 18:37
  in monetary non monetary ways, let's not you know, go there. So
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  I think it's more on the communication. I know it's getting repetitive in terms
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  of how you're talking about communication, but that's the key, right because absolutely
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  everybody comes from a certain value, you know, mindset of the money also,
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  So yes, well let me throw in um one more angle and make
• 19:04
  it a little bit more difficult for you. Bring it on all right?
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  What if you know, say, um, girl meets boy, um,
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  they get married, turns out boy um. You know. I mean in
• 19:18
  India it's a very common thing to have shared family accounts. And now you're
• 19:26
  marrying into a family that has a shared account already. Okay, not with
• 19:30
  you, not for your family, but you know his family has a How
• 19:34
  do you now decide? Okay, you know, how much do you actually
• 19:38
  bring into this marriage? How much do you earn? How much am I
• 19:41
  bringing into this family, How much did I give to my family? Um,
• 19:45
  what what about family shared accounts? So you know what we tell our
• 19:52
  clients and what we tell are the people that we coach and mentor is first
• 19:56
  to have separate bank accounts. If guy is getting married, because now he
• 20:02
  is an adult and of course he's making his own money, he has his
• 20:04
  business, he has his salary, he should have his own account where his
• 20:08
  income is getting in. And likewise we also tell the girl that who is
• 20:14
  marrying should have her own personal account after marriage, together they should have their
• 20:19
  one joint account where every month, like Siwani said, a certain predecided percentage
• 20:26
  is you know, put aside by both the people, by both the partner,
• 20:32
  by the girl and the guy. So this is how the raw structure
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  or skeleton of the accounting and the you know it happens. So this way
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  what happens is the guy is also knowing how much he is earning apart from
• 20:47
  his family, and the girl who is getting married, she also knows how
• 20:51
  much she is getting in her account by her job or by her business or
• 20:55
  by a profession. And together they are contributing to a share joint account and
• 21:00
  they both know what's their share of contribution. That's lovely, Evelyn. Your
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  question is quite interesting because however, we you know, easily say this in
• 21:12
  a complex family structure, this might not be possible. So I completely understand
• 21:18
  you know, where this question is coming from, because this could be a
• 21:21
  common scenario and a lot of family a lot of families. I have so
• 21:25
  many friends who have I'm sure the family accounts and it's not just say you
• 21:32
  know, they're you know, daily wages that go into these accounts, but
• 21:37
  it may also hold assets and you know, investments and all that stuff.
• 21:42
  Yes, So how do you bring up this kind of conversation with exactly?
• 21:48
  So I would like to mention there see that structure has been functioning since a
• 21:55
  lot of years. So if and especially because we're talking about Indian setup,
• 22:00
  yes, if a new if a girl is entering the family straight up questioning
• 22:07
  and you know, fighting against that structure is not the best way out.
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  Maybe you will get your way through, yes, but that not might not
• 22:15
  be you know, happy thing to do, right. I I think I
• 22:19
  completely agree with you and your structure. It's a very very smart way to
• 22:25
  approach it to you know, have both of the individuals that are starting a
• 22:30
  new family, set up their own individual accounts and decide how much are we
• 22:34
  both you know, earning. I think that is the best way to avoid
• 22:38
  any conflict. That's right, And that's a good conversation to have with your
• 22:42
  own family, you know. I mean many girls also come with their you
• 22:47
  know, shared family accounts and then yes, are they bringing anything in?
• 22:52
  How much or you know, it's such a lovely difficult conversation to have.
• 22:59
  And I to our audience after listening to this podcast, to not feel scared
• 23:03
  of this conversation. Yeah, and I hope this brings out more conversations around
• 23:08
  this and just we normalize these conversations rather than making a taboo or shying away
• 23:15
  from shying away from it and you know, name calling the different family relations
• 23:21
  that you have. It it's a very normal conversation. Yes, it's totally
• 23:26
  up to what the couple decides in so many situations. Yeah, it's just
• 23:33
  breaking this fear away from this conversation. So, Evelyn, I would like
• 23:38
  to add something you were talking about the fear of having this conversation. So
• 23:42
  there are two things. First, I believe that every married couple should be
• 23:48
  friends with each other. I mean they should behave like friends, because when
• 23:52
  you have that friendship, it's very very easy to have difficult conversations. Second,
• 24:00
  they should try to work on a project together. The reason I'll tell
• 24:03
  you, the reason I had asked Vanni to collaborate with me on this book
• 24:07
  was that we get to spend time together apart from our day to day work,
• 24:14
  and we spend time together doing something productive. And when you do that,
• 24:18
  you form a bond, which is, you know, a bond that
• 24:23
  you can talk about things and you can share things. So these two things
• 24:27
  I feel are very important. If two people are having good communication amongst themselves,
• 24:33
  they are able to communicate, you know, their mind out very freely.
• 24:37
  Even money conversation would become easier. Yeah, yeah, I think yeah.
• 24:41
  Building that pace of trust with having honest conversations in a relationship will make
• 24:48
  it much easier to talk about money. That's a very good point. People
• 24:53
  also need to understand what the other partner has in terms of their relationship with
• 25:00
  money in the past, how they have grown up with money, how they
• 25:03
  have owned money, or you know, I am a big believer in if
• 25:07
  you understand the other person's past with respect to a certain situation, or think
• 25:11
  it's easier to you know, go ahead with decision making. That's beautiful,
• 25:18
  that's so true. That's really understanding your partner's view on money because of their
• 25:26
  childhood and their upbringing and their struggle or their their journey with money so far.
• 25:34
  That's really interesting. And also maybe their dreams. You know, why
• 25:38
  have they been working and making money all this while? What did they want
• 25:41
  to do with this money? Yes, the Little Book on Financial Clarity,
• 25:48
  guys, make sure to get it. And thank you so much Chivanni and
• 25:52
  Bavan for your expertise in your time today and sharing so openly with us about
• 25:57
  your own personal journey money and especially in your young relationship. I'd like i'd
• 26:03
  like to say thank you guys so much for being on the show today.
• 26:07
  Thank you a pleasure, thank you, and thank you guys so much for
• 26:11
  listening. Remember, if you have any love and dating questions and stories to
• 26:15
  share, send them over to us at Love Matters at ew dot com.
• 26:19
  And if you like this podcast, don't forget to rate and review us on
• 26:23
  whatever podcast platform you're using right now, and of course share it with a
• 26:30
  friend. I'm Evelyn Sharma and I think Love Matters