Latest / Murders to Music: Crime Scene to Music Scene (Streamline Events and Entertainment) / Death Row: A Fantasy, A Murder and a Threesome- The True Story

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Death Row: A Fantasy, A Murder and a Threesome- The True Story · Murders to Music: Crime Scene to Music Scene (Streamline Events and Entertainment)

• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Murders to Music Podcast.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Aaron.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, and you guys are in for another great show.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: On tonight's show, I want to talk about the difference between man and woman, dog and cat.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Now, a lot of people in today's day and age seem to be confused, and they think that a man can be a woman, a woman can be a dog, a cat can be a man, and they're just getting it all mixed up, you know?
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that is what I want to talk about on today's show.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're with me, stick around.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Let's knock this conversation out of the park.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that is a complete lie.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: You see, that is the little test recording that I did before tonight's show, and uh I just wanted to include it because it's gonna be fun.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, so let's get on to tonight's show.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Murders to Music Podcast.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Aaron, I'm your host, and you guys are in for another great show tonight.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for coming back for another week.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Nick, if you're out there, bro, hopefully all is going well.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't heard from you in a minute.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Shoot me an email.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Look forward to hearing from you, and uh just hope life is good for you, buddy.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, so on tonight's show, there's a couple things that I want to talk about.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: And the first one is I just want to tell you guys a story.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: So this morning I had to get up early, right?
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: And for my current day job, I'm a factory rep in the commercial plumbing world, which doesn't sound sexy, and it's typically not.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: What it means is I teach, educate, train, and sell products in the commercial plumbing world.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lot of entertaining, a lot of relationship building, and that is a lot of fun for me.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so that's what I'm doing.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: So my partner that I work with every day invited me to go on a job walkthrough with him this morning down in Salem, Oregon.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: And we had to go to the Oregon State Penitentiary or prison.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that is where people spend a lot of time in jail for a lot of bad things, right?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I'm like, yeah, sure, I'll go.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've I've seen the prison, obviously.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: I've been there.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: I've just never been on that side of the prison.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: So why not go down and give this experience?
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: So we head out of town early, early this morning.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: We got an eight o'clock meeting down there this morning, and we're driving south.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: And as we're chitting and chatting in the car, you know, we're talking about one thing or another, and this podcast comes up.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: And as the podcast comes up, we start talking.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you know, I said, I'm gonna record an episode tonight on a murder that I worked many, many years ago.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Oh, he's like, You're gonna do one on a murder, huh?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Yeah, I said, you know, the last couple weeks have been pretty heavy.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I should do one on a murder just to lighten it up.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then I realized what that statement was, right?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: What world am I used to and do I live in when that comes out of my mouth naturally?
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: The last couple weeks have been heavy.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: So let me talk about a murder so I can lighten the mood a little bit.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was crazy.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: But then we go down to the Oregon State Penitentiary, and you know, the whole time I'm like, I've put a lot of people in this prison.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: There have been many, many people over the years that have been confined to the rest of their life in this prison because of a case that I worked.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought, I guess there's a chance I'm gonna run into somebody that I know when I get there.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: So we get there, and having to go through that process, if you've never been there in that capacity, you have to go through, first of all, a background check.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: They have to make sure that you're allowed to go in there and they run criminal history on you and everything else.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Then when you get there, they essentially have to take everything off your body that's worse than TSA, and they run you through a metal detector.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Then you have to give them your ID, sign in, get your hand stamped with a little uh stamp that is ultraviolet.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: Then we had an entourage of about 10 people escorting us through this prison.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: And as we got out onto the prison grounds, um, it was it was cool-ish, you know?
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: It was different than what I expected seeing this maximum security prison.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: They have a$500,000 outdoor garden area, Japanese garden.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: This Japanese garden has got bonsai trees that like the prisoners shape, and it's got bridges and it's got artifacts that were literally flown here from Japan to put into this garden.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: They hired this garden architect designer to come in and build this thing.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: They have what was called a zen pad, and it's a large gravel pad with a couple of very like, I don't get it, but concrete square blocks that they call art.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: But the gravel in that was like quarter minus P gravel, and it was all raked perfect.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: And in this gravel is where the inmates get to go and like draw pictures in the dirt, and it brings them centered and back focused and stuff.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I'm like, whatever, you know, you're in here for the rest of your life, whatever works for you.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: You're serving your time.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: So then as we're making our way through this prison and through these outdoor areas, we get to the building that we're gonna work in.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that building we're gonna work in was built in probably the early 1900s, so it's super old, and it was the original maximum security death row building.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that in itself just tells you the history that's inside of there, and it was cool.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: You go into it, and I'm used to the kindler, gentler, friendlier prisons, if you will, where you know you have like padded seats and everything else.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: This everything is concrete, brick, and bars.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's all it is.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Literally, you walk into the first door, and there's a corner in the room, and that corner in the room has an angled cell wall on it.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: So bars, floor to ceiling, that kind of cuts the corner.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: It leaves about a 36 inch by 36 inch triangle in the corner, and there's a cell door on it.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: It was right in the middle of the office space.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: That is literally where they put the bad people when they had to watch them.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you've got like a 36 by 36 inch a squared, b squared equals c squared, which is what your hypotenuse is, area that you got to like sit in for however long.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: But then we get back into these cells, and these cells are six foot by nine foot by about eight feet tall.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: They are nothing but a concrete formed bed or raised area along the left wall that leaves about 43 inches of space that is floor to ceiling height, and in that is a small toilet and a small lavatory, and then you have a slamming jail cell door.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: That is the extent of their prison room.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: And as you're in there, you can't help but feel like the heaviness of that.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: There have been people sitting there literally waiting to die.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a really, really different perspective being on that side, you know, and I did see somebody with the same last name as one of my suspects I put in there.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I kind of hung back to wait till the guy turned around and it wasn't my suspect.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: But it just goes to show you that that is the kind of life these people are living.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't feel bad for them, don't get me wrong.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: But it's just different seeing that side of it.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: We were able to get in, get our job walk done, and get out of there.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: And uh they didn't keep me, they didn't keep him, life is good.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the guy's got one set of rules, right?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: And as you're going in there and you're they're telling you what to do and what not to do, the the rule is you don't get to wear any blue.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing blue.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: No blue shirts, no blue jeans, no blue shoes, no blue socks, no blue underwear, nothing blue.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: That is the color that is designated for prisoners.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: So he tells me yesterday, he's like, hey, you know all the rules, right?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, yeah, got them, bro.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, all right, and I'm joking.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, so no prisoner costumes from Walmart, uh, no guns, no knives, no throwing stars, you know, ha ha ha ha.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: We laugh it off.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, today we get in there, we're about mid-walk, and I look over.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: He's got on gray pants, a blue long sleeve shirt, and blue shoes.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, dude, the only rule they gave you was to not wear blue.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Look at yourself.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna keep you, not me.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: We were able to get out of there.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't notice, nobody said anything, which I'm surprised because security was surprisingly tight.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: And uh anyway, that was my experience in this walkthrough.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: But it got me to thinking about one of the first murders that I worked, where somebody was sentenced to an extended period of time in jail.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll tell you what their final sentence was here at the end of this.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: So this murder goes like this.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: This was one of the first homicide cases that I worked when I got back to detectives.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it started, it started out like any other day.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: So this, our victim in this case, is a 35-year-old female.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna call her Susan.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: Susan is out and about, she's 35 years old, she's an employee at a major government power distribution center in our area.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: She has a master's in physics, and she's just out to go out to the bar to have a good time.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's a Friday or Saturday night.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: So she goes out to the bar and she's in the Portland area where she's at the bar.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: She's in a bar in kind of East Portland.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, unbeknownst to her, her life is about to change.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, it's about to end.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: You see, also at that bar were three other people.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: There was suspect number one, a 38-year-old male out of California, who had met up with a local friend of his who's a 30, or sorry, a 28-year-old male out of the Portland area, and a 40-year-old female out of the Portland area.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: So the the three suspects are hanging out at the same bar, and they all end up at about nine o'clock at night, they all end up in the smoking area outside of the bar together.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: And as they're sitting there sharing their cancer sticks and their cigarettes, they get to talking, the three suspects get to talking to our victim in this case.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: And uh small talk happens, and these three are normal looking everyday people.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: They don't look like killers, they don't look like crazy.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: They're just three average everyday people.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: When we go out, we're social.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: We talk to people in the airports and in restaurants and in the grocery store every single day.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: And the conversation that was had between this foursome was no different.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: So as they're at that bar together, they hang out, they have some drinks, and a short time later, they decide to walk across the street to another bar.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the second bar they walk to is actually a strip club.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: So they walk to the strip club and the four of them go in, and when they go in, there is a ID scanner at the front door that the bouncers haven't everybody scan their IDs on.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: So everybody scans their ID and they go, they party at the strip club, they do what strip club people do, and then at the end of the night, shortly after midnight, 1 a.m., the four of them leave the bar together, and our victim decides to join the threesome and get into their car and drive away with them.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Now, we'll never know what the plan in the victim's mind really was.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: So the four of them drive to a remote area about 20 miles away, and this remote area is actually a popular lake.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: This lake is a recreate recreation area where they do jet moat.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: This lake is a recreation area where they do.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: This lake is a recreation area where they do water skiing, they do boat sports, there's a beach for people to lay out on.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's a really nice area.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: On one side of the lake is the public area, and on the other side of the lake are a lot of really, really nice homes that are all lakefront.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the area that we're in.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: They drive to that area, that park, and on the main road of the park, something occurs.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: So let me rewind this.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Here's how the call comes in.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: At about seven o'clock the following morning, we receive a 911 call that a body has been discovered, an adult female has been discovered shot to death at the entrance of this park.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: So patrol officers respond, detectives get notified, and we all go out there, and as luck would have it, there is a dead body, it's an adult female, and she's been shot in the head.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that is where the investigation starts.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: I get called out on this and I get assigned to be the warrant writer in this case.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: And the warrant writer's job is to write all of the search warrants and paperwork, affidavits, phone orders, all of the paperwork in this case, it's my job to write those documents.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason we do it that way is one person has continuity and consistency throughout the case so we know what all the facts are.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because if one person writes some of them and the other person writes the rest of them, maybe their information isn't exactly correct.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they didn't interpret things or hear things exactly the same way.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: And now when they document it in different ways throughout these legal forms and these search warrants, now that comes up for scrutiny down the road.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: So we assign one person to write all the paperwork so everything is consistent in the same tone, same writing style, et cetera.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: And in this case, that was my job.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I got to sit in on all the meetings.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: And granted, remember, I'm a relatively new detective to the unit, but I got to sit in on these meetings and be an active part of this investigation.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And this investigation was being ran by a different detective from a different agency.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: And uh he was relatively new to running homicides at that time as well.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: But this is one of those guys, we've all worked with them.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: They're smoking mirrors, right?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: It could be his first day on the job, and he makes it seem like he's been doing this stuff a hundred years.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the way this guy was, and that's the way he ran this investigation.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Not good or bad, it's just a personality.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: So through the investigation, first thing we have to do is identify who our victim is.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: And at this point, we don't know our victim.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: So we have get find her ID, figure out who our victim is, and uh we go back and talk to her family.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Family says, I don't know anything about it, don't know what she was doing, she didn't check in last night, she lives on her own, et cetera, et cetera.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: So then, remember, we don't know she was at the bars.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: So then we got to check her financials, and that takes paperwork to the bank.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: And sure enough, when we do that, we start to see these bar transactions that occurred the night before.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: And we realize that she's out and about drinking and having a good time.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: So we take these uh financial records and we go back to the bars that were noted on them, and we start talking to people and we start checking CCTV, and sure enough, we find her at that first bar out in the smoking area.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it was on that video that we were able to see the suspects meet up with her and engage in conversation.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now that we know what we're looking for, we follow her inside.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: She's captured by all the video on inside the bar.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: They're hanging out, they're talking, they're looking like they're long-lost friends.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: The foresome is, everybody seems to be getting along, they're high-fiving, they're hugging, life is good.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Drinks, shots, having a great time.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Then, as that bar winds down, we follow them on video from that bar across the street to a strip club.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: We see them go into the bar, and when they go into the bar, that's when they swipe their cards on the ID checker held by the bouncer.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's with that information now we go to that bar and we're like, hey, we need your information from that ID.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: And we're able to narrow it down, and we're able to narrow down who our suspects were and who our victim was.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: So that was super, super helpful for us.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: With that information, now we have something to go on.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: So now we got to do the suspectology.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: We've got to dig into these suspects and find out exactly who they are, what they're all about.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: So as we start looking at them, we realize that they've got no real criminal history.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the minor stuff, but nothing major, nothing that screams, I'm a killer.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't even know if they're involved in the murder at this point.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: All we know is she left the bar with them.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, for we can't jump to conclusions thinking that they're the killers because they could have likely taken her to a, you know, an overnight Denny's, dropped her off, and somebody else picked her up, right?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: So at this point, these are just persons of interest.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: We have to talk to them, see what their side of the story is, and we'll go from there.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: So we figure out who these people are, we start doing the uh suspectology on them, we go check out their houses, we don't see them.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: We see the car they leave in, we don't see that car at any of the places.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: We can see where their cell phone is at, and we can start pinging it and trying to determine where at in the world, you know, where in the world is Carmen San Diego, right?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: So at this point, to pause and recap, we have a dead body at the entrance of this park that we know got there sometime in the middle of the night.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: We have the victim meeting three people in the smoking area, hanging out with them, ultimately hours later, leaving with those three people in a car to never be seen again alive.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: We have the car and the three people identified.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: We go to their houses, we can't find them.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's where we are at this point in the investigation.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: So now we start taking a look at their cell phone records, and we find that their cell phones are pinging in a town about halfway up the Washington I-5 corridor.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: So between Vancouver, Washington, Seattle, Washington, they're in a small town, about halfway up the state, and uh, we know that's where they're at.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: We've got no ties to that area for them.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: We take a look at their victim or their suspectology, and we've got nothing that ties them to that area.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: So in our mind, it makes us think they're fleeing or they have fled.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: They're hiding out up there somewhere to avoid law enforcement.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: So as time goes on, we try to go up there, find them, talk to them.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: We can't find them, can't talk to them.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: In the meantime, this body that we have has been taken to the medical examiner's office, confirmed it's a murder by gunshot wound to the head, uh, large caliber handgun round is what it is.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: There were no shell casings found at the crime scene, so we don't have any way to track that.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: That also tells us they either policed the crime scene by picking up their brass or they're using a revolver, one of the two.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, with that information, the investigation continues.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: The next thing we have to do is try to identify where our suspects are up north so we can go talk to them.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: But then we realize that one of our suspect phone numbers that we've identified is actually pinging in California.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: When we start looking deeper into that suspect from California, we find out that he's got strong ties in California, and that's likely where he lives.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: So now we're starting to put the pieces of the puzzle together that after the murder, at some point, two of the suspects flee to Washington State.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: The third one flees to California.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, as information starts to come in, we ultimately get enough to write some search warrants for the car, the location where these people are hanging out.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: We're able to identify where they're hanging out in Kelso, a hotel.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: We're able to get search warrants for the suspect in California.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: We're able to get search warrants for their residence in California.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: All of that is important because we can't serve Washington search warrants in the state of California without partnering with a California magistrate to make sure that our criminal elements and elements are like the ingredients to a cookie recipe.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Chocolate chip cookies have six main ingredients.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: And without those six main ingredients, you really don't have chocolate chip cookies.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: You have something that resembles a chocolate chip cookie, but it's not actually a chocolate chip cookie.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: So you can't call it that.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: In the criminal world, we have a statute of murder, of manslaughter, of whatever it may be.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: And we have those six ingredients as well.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't have all six of those, then you really don't have murder or manslaughter or DUI or whatever it is.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: So not all laws are written equal between state to state.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: So we have to take our ingredients or elements of a crime in our state, talk to a California magistrate and a Washington magistrate, and make sure that our elements meet their elements and therefore is a crime in their state.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because if it's not a crime in their state, then we can't issue a search warrant to go and search his house for the crime of murder because it's not murder in that state.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: However, I digress.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what we're working on, and that's what we're working through in this case.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm able to connect with a California magistrate and a Washington magistrate, make sure that these elements are all what they should be, and write the warrant in such a way so it'll be applicable in their states and ultimately get search warrants in both of those other states.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: So now we send a team of detectives to Washington to arrest and detain the two suspects in Washington state, and we send a team of detectives to California to locate, identify, arrest, and interview the suspect in California.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Before we could get to California, we contacted local law enforcement and put them on the suspect's tracks.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: They were able to arrest him prior to us getting there.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: So when we went there, we were going there pretty much just to do an interview and serve a search warrant.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: And anybody that has confronted somebody for doing something wrong, you'll know that they lie to you.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: And they don't come right out and tell you the whole truth.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: And you may never get the whole truth.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: And as luck would have it, this was no exception.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: So we interviewed the people in Washington, the two suspects there.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: And they say, essentially, yep, met the person at the bar, took her to a restaurant or something, dropped her off, never saw her again.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: And with that cell phone data, we were able to say, Well, you're kind of lying because your data puts you into the area of the park.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: So we know that you were there, and we know that you were in the area where she died at about the time she died.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: The suspect in California says, uh, yeah, I live in California.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: I took the Greyhound to Portland to meet up with my two friends.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: We met up, we went out for a night.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, we met some chicky poo and dropped her off somewhere.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: Don't know what happened to her, and that's the end of it.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we're able to confront him as well.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: And during the service of search warrant and slash consent, uh, we were able to recover a 357 revolver handgun.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, with those items, we were able to say, you are more likely than not responsible for the murder of our victim, and we're going to arrest you.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: So they arrested him for the murder in California, and we arrested the two people in Washington state for the murder as well.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: Now, we got to extradite those people from those states because we can't just throw them into the back of a car and bring them home.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: We have to go through a court process.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: So that court process ultimately gets them back into the Oregon area where we're able to continue and further this investigation by talking to them.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: What we learn, here's the whole thing stripped down.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: We learn that these three people had been discussing what it would feel like to kill somebody.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: What it would feel like to take somebody's life.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: So California rides a Greyhound bus and brings his 357 with him to the Portland area.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: In Portland, they go out on the prowl.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: They go out looking for somebody that is worthy of their thrill kill.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's when they run into our victim at the bar.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: They decide she's gonna be the one, and they befriend her.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: They befriend her enough, they take her to another bar, everybody drinks, and they ultimately leave with her.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: They take her out to a remote area some ways away, and this is where things get kind of foggy.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody points the finger at everybody else, as you can imagine, which it always happens.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: But two of the people, a the 28-year-old man and the 40-year-old woman, say they go off to have sex in the bushes because there's nowhere more romantic than the threshold of a park with a 30-bush up your ass.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing better.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'm here to tell you.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: So they go off to do that, and they leave the 38-year-old male with the victim.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: They say they hear an argument.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: Something is happening, there's an argument, and then they hear a gunshot, and then they all come back together.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: The three of them do, and they get in the car and they leave.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: The male and woman who are out there making sweet, sweet love, they said, we never asked the other dude what happened to the girl.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: We never saw her, we just figured she walked away, which is bullshit, and we all know that.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: So the 38-year-old guy ultimately confesses to killing our victim.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Shot her in the head for nothing more than to experience what a killing would be like.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Let that set in.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: So then the three of them, this is where things get even better, right?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: You can't make this stuff up.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: The three of them end up going back to a residence together and having celebratory sex.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: The three of them.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: They have sex because they celebrate this kill that they just did.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: The next morning they wake up exhausted from killing and sex, and the homeboy jumps onto a bus, unasses the area, heads back to California.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: The other two are like, man, maybe we were sloppy and reckless in our endeavors.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: We should go hide out somewhere.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: So they head north and hide out in Washington State.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: That, at the end of the day, is what occurred.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, and this is relatively undisputed as far as evidence, right?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: Now, there's some things we can prove and some things we can't, and some things we don't need to.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Some people think that every time you have a case, you need to prove every single thing that happened.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: You don't.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: You have to prove those six ingredients were present.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: You have to prove those six elements were present.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: What happened in the in turn between those elements one and two, or on the drive from here to there, may not be important or germane to your case.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: It may not be something that really matters.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: It might be nice to know what they were thinking, you know, were they sexually gratified during the actual murder?
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: Did they actually see the murder occur or not?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: Those things might be nice to know, but may not be important to those six elements or ingredients of the crime that you were trying to charge them with.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: So as this goes to court, ultimately it unfolds like this.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: It unfolds that California boy, he took the brunt of this because he admitted to pulling the trigger.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: He got 18 years in prison on a plea deal.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Had he taken this to trial, the state likely would have won.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: And if the state would have won, then he would have got 25 years to life, meaning he got a life sentence with the possibility of parole after 25 years, which means he would have been in those same cells that I was in this morning.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: But instead of taking it to trial, the state offered a plea agreement because not every case is 100% clean.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: And when I say that, what you know and what you can prove are often two different things.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: And all you have to do is strike doubt in one juror's mind or one judge's mind before the whole thing goes away.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: So unfortunately, there was a couple of bumps in this investigative road where we didn't quite know everything we needed to know.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we knew it, but we couldn't prove it, right?
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: You you're following.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: So in order to preserve the case and find justice for our victim, the state offered a plea deal of 18 years in prison, and he could get out at 17 and a half years for good time.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: He is still in prison to this day.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: The other two, what happened to the other two, you might ask?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, here's what happened to them.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: They both got one year.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: You heard it right, one year in jail because we couldn't prove that they had prior knowledge of and that or that they witnessed the actual murder.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: We know that they did, based on statements from the shooter.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: But we couldn't prove that because their statements were they didn't know about it.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: They were off having sex with a bush up their ass.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: And they had no idea that she got shot.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: They thought she just walked away, and the gunshot was probably.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: Something unrelated.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: And we can't prove any different because we don't have any video or independent witnesses of those events.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: So they get one year in jail, they're now out of jail.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: They've been out of jail for over a decade.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: This kind of killing is something that we don't see every single day.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: And by that I mean this isn't just your run-of-the-mill murder.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: This is a sexually motivated murder or a sexual homicide offender or a lust murderer, is what this is referred to as.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: And the people who commit these murders get sexual arousal and gratification, or they fulfill a fantasy as a result of the murder.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that sexual gratification, arousal, or fantasy is the primary motivation for committing the crime.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: The sexual element doesn't always mean intercourse with the victim.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: In this case, it meant intercourse with the three of them.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: They thought about it, they fantasized about it.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: He got on a bus and he rode 12 hours carrying a handgun.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: They load the handgun, they go out onto the night to find their victim.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: They stalk the bars, they prowl around in the darkness until they find their 35-year-old, hardworking, masters of physics, government employee who is out to have a drink, and they befriend her in the smoking area of a bar.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: It is there where they put their fantasy into action.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: And every step of the way, they could have backed out, they could have changed their mind, they could have done something different, but they didn't.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: They continue to further that fantasy for the purposes of sexual arousal and ultimately gratification in a threesome when they were done.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: These fantasy-driven crimes usually begin as some elaborate power play or control or sexual theme or reliving some porn movie that they watched or a scene or an episode.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oftentimes these killers will take these sexual themes from pornography, be it rape, control, killing, murder, children, and they've watched it on porn so many times and they've gratified themselves so many times or with each other that that becomes not enough.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: So now they have to act this out.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: And over time, that fantasy becomes so strong that it spills into their real-world behavior.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then ultimately we have a case like this.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: In sexually motivated killers, the killers derive gratification a lot of the times, not from the sex act with the person, but more the control and domination that they have over them.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: As they're sitting there at a park in the middle of the night pointing a 357 handgun at the forehead of a 35-year-old innocent victim before they pull that trigger.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: It is that controlled, domination, and fear in the victim's eyes that fulfills their fantasies and their sexual themes and their gratification when that gun goes off.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: This is sadistic.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: There's voyeurism, there's a fetish in here somewhere.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: And these people continue to escalate their crimes.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: When I think about this type of crime, I think about people like Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer and the BTK killer.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: All of these people are folks who showed strong elements of sexual motivation that were intertwined with their domination control of their killers.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: In my career, this was the first and only time that I know one of my murders was sexually motivated in this profile.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's why this case sticks out to me.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron, why does this case stick out to you?
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's the only one where there was a thrill kill based on a sexually motivated perpetrator.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: In these cases, I know that the victim selection, they may be chosen for some symbolic reason.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: Why did they choose her?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: She's innocent.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: She's not streetwise in this case.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: She wasn't aware of her surroundings.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: She's literally a 35-year-old master's government employee who's out having a drink and thinks that the world is made up of rainbows and butterflies.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: She has no criminal history.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: She has no reason to believe that she lives a high-risk lifestyle.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: When we do our victimology, we are often looking to see if our victims are a low, medium, or high-risk lifestyle.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: High risk lifestyle, homeless, prostitution, human trafficking, drug dealers, gangsters.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's your high-risk profiles.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: These people are likely to put themselves into a position to get killed or hurt.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: Low-risk offenders are 98.2% of the people listening to this podcast right now.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's the people that go to work every day.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: They work hard, they take care of their family, they go to the store, they buy their groceries, they try to get the best deal, they clip a coupon when they can.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's the everyday common folks, and that's what she was.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think the fact that they went home tells me and had sex, it tells me they have very low empathy for what they did, very low remorse, and they have no emotional connection to that victim.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: Can you imagine watching somebody get headshot from point blank range?
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I can tell you that the scene looked every bit like what you're picturing in your head.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then to go home, have that image in your head and have sex and intercourse and climax.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: I I I can't wrap my mind around it.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: If I have a stressful day, it's tough for me to have sex.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: You probably feel the same way.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, to bring this back around full circle.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: This morning, I find myself on death row.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: I find myself in the cells of people who are waiting to die.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: In this case, the people responsible for this murder of our victim should have found all three of them into those same cells that I was in this morning.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: This murder stands out to me because it's the only one I've ever had that I could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that this was a sexually motivated crime and that it was a thrill kill and there was sexual gratification at the end.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's crazy how my worlds are colliding.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: My old world, my new world.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm at uh death row.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm putting people on death row.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh kind of a crazy world.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: God's got a weird way of connecting all the dots.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's it, ladies and gentlemen.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: That is unfortunately a typical Tuesday.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: That is a everyday type of occurrence case investigation.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I say every day, not every day we're doing the sexually motivated stuff, but this is what we did in our world.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is what my partners still do.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: Chase down this stuff.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: This is why PTSD is so real.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is why darkness and depression is so real.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, this podcast is designed to be educational, entertaining, provide value.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: Tonight was a little entertaining, maybe educational.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really know, but I wanted to tell the story.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for listening.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, thank you, thank you.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: This next week, we are gonna have a recap.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: I am done.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: My weddings, I have one more wedding this week.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's on Saturday, and uh next week I want to recap my wedding season.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: I want to recap the highs and the lows.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'll tell you some funny stuff.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'll tell you about the mistress that wanted to leave with everybody in that place.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: And uh it's weird, you probably should invite your mistress to your daughter's wedding when your wife and your ex-wife are there, especially when the mistress is the one that broke up your first marriage and is about to break up your second.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh anyway, bad choices, right?
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: We all make bad choices.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: So that is coming up next week.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm hoping to have my son Keegan on there with me.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: He's been at every wedding with me, and uh he is the I gave him a promotion this week.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: He's the official vice president of my company.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't come with a raise, but a lot more responsibility.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where we're at.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for listening.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: Find me on Instagram at murders to music, email me murders to music at gmail.com.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's murders the number two music at gmail.com.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm on Facebook, all the socials, send me some messages, tell me what you think of the show, leave some reviews where you can.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you guys so much.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: Have a great night.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: That is a murders to music podcast.