Latest / The Green Runners Storytime / Damian Hall: Last Man Standing

Transcript

Damian Hall: Last Man Standing · The Green Runners Storytime

0:00
We love the trails, but we know our footprints leave a mark.
0:04
How do we protect the wild places we run in without losing
0:07
our minds or our hobby? I'm Laura Briggs, and this is
0:11
story time with the Green Runners.
0:13
Whether you're mid run or mid recovery, join me as I talk to
0:17
the Trail Blazers and everyday heroes taking imperfect actions
0:21
for a healthier planet. This isn't just about being a
0:24
perfect environmentalist, it's about moving in the right
0:27
direction. Let's get into today's story.
0:36
Damo, welcome back. For those of you who don't know,
0:39
you have just returned from a place where people pay $1.60 to
0:43
go through absolute torture. Can you explain a little bit
0:47
about the Yellow Gate and the Barclay Marathons to someone who
0:50
thinks that a marathon is just a long run on a Rd.
0:54
Hello, thanks for having me on. Yes, only a week and a bit ago I
1:00
had my third attempt at the Barclay Marathons.
1:05
There's a lot to say about the race, but there's probably the
1:08
simplest way to understand it is it's meant to be 5 loops in some
1:13
woods in Frozen Head State Park, Tennessee.
1:16
That loop change. It can change every year.
1:18
It's about a marathon, but no one really knows.
1:21
There's a lot of vert. We think maybe even 15,000 foot
1:24
of vert SO2 loops would be the same as UTMB and it's not
1:29
marked. So to prove we've done the route
1:32
we have to find books hidden mostly under boulders or in
1:35
trees inside the the the trunk of a tree and tear a page out
1:40
that corresponds with our bid bib number.
1:42
Bring them all back to camp. If we can do that within the 12
1:47
hour cut off for each loop, again, 12 hours for a marathon,
1:51
but many people aren't making that cut off, then we're allowed
1:56
out for a second loop. Yippee.
1:58
For for further, further sort of tormented torture.
2:03
There have been 39 editions of the Barclay Marathons.
2:05
Only 20 people have ever, ever finished it, but two green
2:09
runners have. John Kelly has finished it three
2:11
times. Jasmine Paris just as famously
2:13
finished it in 2024, the only woman to finish it with 90
2:17
seconds to spare. And I was incredibly lucky to be
2:19
that there that year to see that.
2:21
But yes, there's, there's lots more to it.
2:23
I mean, it does go under a prison at one point.
2:25
The prison is related to the origin story.
2:27
It. Yeah.
2:29
There's no website for the Barking marathons.
2:31
It's a bit of a secret how to get in.
2:34
Yes. Anything.
2:35
Anything else you want to know on that?
2:37
Yeah. What what I do, it's like you
2:40
said, nobody knows how to get in, but you've been invited to
2:44
do it and you are now what we might consider a Barclay
2:48
Marathon veteran. Does that mean it gets any
2:51
easier if you've done it more than once?
2:54
Cut yes, because so the book location, the route and the book
2:59
locations can change every year. I keep saying can because the
3:03
frustrating thing with this year 2026 is, is it was the same
3:08
course, 99% the same course as the previous year where no one
3:12
had even got onto loop 4. And they kept the same course,
3:15
which is basically two extra climbs after the 2024 edition
3:19
where unfortunately there were five finishes, which of course
3:22
made them think they should make it a bit harder.
3:25
Even the earliest of those finishers finished within an
3:28
hour and a half of the overall 60 hour cut off.
3:31
So even though there were 5 finishers and, and on paper that
3:34
makes it sound like it's sort of easy, it was still very tight
3:37
for all those finishers. Anyway, I digress a bit.
3:41
Yes, it should make it easier because you'll hopefully
3:44
remember most of the book locations and and maybe only two
3:48
or three or four change each year.
3:49
So you'd have a good foundation. And some of them haven't changed
3:53
at all in my sort of my three years, some of them have changed
3:56
a lot. So you do, yeah, you can do
3:58
homework and you try and remember and you take notes.
4:00
So it will help. It will help.
4:02
The way it doesn't help of course is thinking I know what's
4:04
coming and in a way that doesn't help.
4:07
Nothing you have said about the Barclays makes it sound easy, by
4:10
the way, just to put that out there.
4:12
So you've mentioned Jasmine Paris obviously in 2024 and you
4:16
secured a fun run as well. You had your Green Runners buddy
4:20
out there in 2024, so how did it feel returning to Frozen Head
4:23
this year as a solo representative of the Green
4:26
Runners? Was it harder to find that in a
4:28
grit without Jasmine by your side?
4:30
Well, I should say technically, yeah, I mean, John, John Kelly
4:33
is a green runner and he, he was there as well.
4:35
But yeah, it wasn't quite the same with that Jasmine.
4:37
I did sort of room with Jasmine both, both the, the two years.
4:40
We both do it together. And yeah, I do, I, I do miss
4:43
her. She's yeah, she's a phenomenal
4:46
person to be around. Really inspiring and she does
4:49
personify that element that as far as I can tell, everyone has
4:52
finished the Barclay marathons, is a engineer or a scientist.
4:55
And she is of course a vet with a PhD.
4:59
And I'll give you a couple of examples actually of how she
5:03
sort of gives it the right level of attention that maybe I
5:06
haven't. That isn't my background.
5:08
I'm just a daydreaming idiot really.
5:12
So for example, the pre yeah, 2024 we, we, when you're showing
5:16
the map for the course that year, the day before, you can we
5:20
all gather around and sort of plot our own map routes on the
5:23
maps that were available from the, from the park, the State
5:25
Park office. And you know, we did that for
5:27
about two hours. And basically I had sort of map
5:29
fatigue, but, and that was enough for me.
5:31
But she, I remember, I remember thinking, right, I'm off for a
5:33
drink and a snack and she was like, I'm just going to double
5:35
check all my bearings. Like, and that's probably not
5:38
1/2 hours work of, of basically maths, annoying, annoying maths.
5:42
But that was the extra level of detail that she would put in.
5:46
And I, you know, I didn't realize the first year, but she,
5:49
she and others would straight afterwards, you know, take all
5:52
sorts of notes and do drawings of, you know, because, because
5:56
you don't definitely know you'll be in the next year, even if you
5:58
want to. And then even then it is a whole
6:00
year. So the chance of remembering,
6:02
you know, all the exact things are slim.
6:04
So she was doing her homework. One more little example is in
6:08
that year, 2024, I remember there were four of us coming
6:12
down a spur. You're often in the woods coming
6:13
down a spur, but is it the right spur?
6:16
And I remember we're expecting to see a river on a right.
6:19
So there was 3 blokes and Jasmine.
6:21
So we were all like, yeah, that's all right.
6:22
And Jasmine. No, no, the river's gone the
6:23
wrong way. So we had all been happy to see
6:26
a river and that was satisfied, like ticked our box.
6:29
You know, we're OK, we're fine. But she had, she was thinking,
6:32
you know, even harder than us. And she was like, actually, that
6:34
river isn't the right river. So we had come down the wrong
6:36
spur. So yeah, I'm just, I guess,
6:39
yeah. Praising Jasmine but showing the
6:42
extra level of thought and detail that needs to go into
6:44
maybe finishing the Barclay and maybe why I haven't been able to
6:47
yet. Gosh, it really pays to do your
6:48
homework, doesn't it? So you told us about the books
6:51
and the the pages that you have to find when you're searching
6:54
through the route. What was the specific title of
6:57
the book that eluded you this time on Luke Loop 3?
7:00
We want to know if it's sitting in your Never read again pile.
7:04
One second I, I don't, it was that, to be honest, it was
7:11
actually more the weather this year that defeated me and that
7:14
and that I got, I was on loop 3. I think in the end I got nine of
7:20
the 16 books and I was at 1 and I was basically just too cold.
7:23
So too wet and cold and, and, and it was getting wetter and
7:26
colder and darker. And I, I guess ultimately I
7:28
feared for my, feared for my safety.
7:30
Matthew Blanchard was sort of saying, yeah, he was terrified.
7:34
I don't know if I was terrified yet, but I was trying to be
7:36
sensible, so I can't. I can't remember which book it
7:39
was, but I can read out a few titles here.
7:41
We've got M is for Malice. These are literally, yes,
7:47
covered in mud from A Time for Mercy.
7:51
Now, I think that was near the end of the loop.
7:53
Some of them, unfortunately, just dropped down behind again.
7:58
It's muddle over it, deliberate intent.
8:02
I don't know if that's a legal term from over there.
8:07
Why people break with communism? Gosh, some classic titles.
8:13
Yeah, so quite unusual. There was one on leadership in
8:15
there and the page I tore out had a next to the next page was
8:18
a picture of Yoda. So.
8:21
So there is there's definitely sense of humor and there were
8:23
definitely lots of yes, 01 more here.
8:26
Sorry. Some of some of them have fallen
8:27
off off my desk on the floor. One more ready to die.
8:31
Oh, the most apartment. Yes, and we.
8:33
Probably at that moment. I have seen in the past, yeah,
8:35
there's been a marathon training guide, which has been quite
8:38
funny. And yeah, first aid, a first aid
8:41
in the outdoors guide. Yeah.
8:44
And and the year after Gary Robbins was 6 seconds late to
8:50
finish, which is about is that 20/17/2018 the first book the
8:56
next year when Gary Robbins was back.
8:58
So he was 6 seconds short. Technically he'd actually come
9:00
the wrong way, so he wouldn't count.
9:01
It'd be 6 seconds short. And the the first book the next
9:04
year was called 6 Seconds. No, yeah, although I love that
9:09
level of humour in a time when you must just really have had a
9:13
sense of humor failure as well. I love that you mentioned the
9:18
weather, Damo, and how absolutely awful it was.
9:21
We've seen, you know, some images from Frozen Head, and it
9:24
looked absolutely bleak. What's it like running through
9:29
that kind of quagmire? What do you do to get through?
9:32
You took your shoes off at one point.
9:34
Was that because of the weather? So.
9:36
Yeah, I should, I should clear that up.
9:37
All I was doing there was yeah. So the only course change this
9:40
year was the campground had to be slightly different.
9:42
So it wasn't the traditional yellow gate because the that
9:45
campground is being renovated and we're in a different, a
9:47
smaller campground. It was probably more intimate
9:49
and probably some of us thought even a bit better, but it's like
9:52
50 meters away. But you had to cross a river.
9:54
There's a perfectly good footbridge, but they decided the
9:57
runners would not like the footbridge.
9:59
That was the official line. So at the end of the first two
10:02
loops we went and I did have, my feet were still dry.
10:05
If you're careful that you cross lots of rivers, etcetera, but
10:07
they're usually rocks. And if you're careful, even
10:09
going into the prison of the water there, if it's not too
10:11
bad, you can sort of use your poles and there's a bit of
10:14
concrete in the middle. You can kind of dance along and
10:17
you can. So you can just about keep your
10:19
feet dry and of course, wet feet equals blisters basically.
10:23
And and your feet, there's enough that the terrain is so
10:26
uneven and so steep that your feet are getting ground up quite
10:29
a bit anyway. But I just thought I'm not
10:31
getting wet feet unnecessarily and I want to use those same
10:33
shoes the the brutes next loop. So I just thought I'd take them
10:38
off for that river crossing and then on the 3rd going out for
10:42
the 3rd loop, we had to start with the river crossing.
10:44
So I did start the loop barefoot.
10:46
And I did ask Carl, technically, do you think I'm the only person
10:49
ever to start a barking mouth and loop barefoot?
10:51
And he said, yeah, I think you are.
10:52
And some of the other runners just use plastic bags basically.
10:56
I don't know which is, you know, better necessarily.
10:58
That might be quicker, I guess, but you're more likely to maybe
11:02
get a hole in one. But yeah, I just thought keep
11:04
your feet dry, less chance of blisters.
11:06
And yeah, one of the one of the front runners actually did have
11:08
macerated feet by the end. I don't, I don't know if it was
11:10
down to that or not, but I was perfectly happy with that.
11:12
But the weather, I mean, I've definitely faced far worse on
11:15
the Spine Race. I guess ultimately it's
11:19
embarrassing to me. But yeah, I should have taken an
11:20
extra mid layer out with me on that 3rd loop.
11:23
And Ali Bailey was crewing me and she was like, take an extra
11:26
layer. And I was like, no, no, I'm
11:27
fine. I had a really thick waterproof.
11:30
I had a nice warm sort of base layer and I'd AG lay for my mid
11:34
layer. And for a lot of the time that
11:35
was great. But basically it was this sort
11:37
of just cold rain. It was often sleet.
11:40
And then we had this Thog fog with the Barclay fog roll in,
11:43
which is just just kind of smothers you and just creeps
11:46
into you. That steals the visibility a
11:48
bit. And I think hours and hours of
11:50
that. And yeah, the water was just
11:51
getting through and you're just, after a while, yeah, you're just
11:55
wet. And the same happened.
11:56
It was kind of, I didn't realize, of course, that Matthew
11:58
Blanchard had dropped out when I got back to camp.
12:00
It was kind of reassuring that, you know, another runner in a
12:04
very similar situation to me had called it quits earlier than me
12:07
and decided that they didn't feel safe.
12:09
So it what, you know, they've always, always a bit of you the
12:11
next day going. Was I being a wimp?
12:12
You know, was I? But but, you know, there were
12:15
two of there were three of us out there.
12:16
Two of us decided we weren't really safe or didn't have the I
12:20
guess didn't have the equipment is the truth of it didn't carry
12:23
the equipment for the conditions.
12:24
But also the margins are so small.
12:25
And then the other guy, Sebastian Rayshawn, again, we're
12:28
back to plastic bags, which, you know, maybe not, maybe not a
12:31
preferred topic for the green runners, but but he has this, he
12:34
did the same at the Spine Race. He has these waterproof, some of
12:36
these plastic sort of rain bags and actually got it out of his
12:43
pack for him. And I think it has, he has his
12:44
sponsors on it and stuff. So he's well prepared.
12:47
And maybe that's something I need to think about wearing a
12:49
plastic bag more. And well, of course,
12:50
historically, John Kelly in 2017 when he first finished the
12:53
Barclay Mathers, he had a plastic bag he'd found in the
12:55
woods wrapped around his person. So there was a theme.
12:58
There was a theme, yes, but then there was us thinking you were
13:01
going to be running the whole thing barefoot at one point.
13:03
It just goes to show though, doesn't it, how important your
13:06
crew is and obviously at this point you did not listen to your
13:09
crew and obviously regretting it now.
13:12
How important was the crew to you?
13:15
Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's two or three different sort of
13:18
layers of, of support, really. And I've been very lucky in the
13:21
past. I was crewed to previous years
13:24
by people who are now really firm friends that, you know, but
13:29
they were basically Canadian strangers to me beforehand.
13:32
And I turned up the first year without Conrad.
13:34
Jasmine's husband was going to crew both of us, which could
13:37
have been tricky. And then, you know, another guy
13:40
was there. But actually you only have one
13:42
crew person and getting to camp is very limited.
13:46
You allowed? Yeah, 40 runners and 40 crew
13:48
people and then probably 5 or 6 staff and 5 or 6 media.
13:53
And. And so there is actually, unlike
13:57
most races, there's actually a whole list of I was getting a
14:00
lot of offers of people would vote very kindly come to America
14:02
or already in America with crew me.
14:04
I was not sure of options. So yeah, you feel very lucky.
14:07
People just love being obviously seeing the being there for it.
14:11
So previous two years yeah Jodie and and then his wife Corinne
14:15
kindly crude me and they were just phenomenal.
14:17
I'd I'd have good fun though when it's Canadians because like
14:19
things like squash means a totally different thing.
14:22
Obviously bum bag Fanny. Yes, yes.
14:25
They were very confused by squash Fanny bum bag or Fanny
14:29
pack quite you know what else? The tea.
14:32
They weren't really tea drinkers either.
14:33
So I made them I I just to sort of tease them a bit.
14:36
I said each tea it needs to be night left for 93 seconds and
14:39
people told me they were they were genuinely timing it and
14:41
getting worried. So I felt bad about that
14:44
afterwards. I was, you know, I, I can't
14:46
tell, I'm in such a state, I can't tell.
14:50
But this time, yeah, I was very lucky had Ali.
14:51
So obviously I know her a lot better.
14:54
And you've got Yeah. So you get, I guess the
14:56
emotional support as well of seeing a really familiar face
14:58
who's going to support you and and sort of be your cheerleader.
15:01
But then also she was incredibly good in in practical terms of of
15:05
sort of, yeah. Having having warm food and and
15:08
unlike other sort of the the easy thing about crewing at the
15:11
Barclay is there's only one place to be.
15:12
You don't have to move anywhere. But the uneasy thing is, yeah,
15:16
you've no idea when people are coming in, so they have to be
15:20
kind of ready. And I've told, you know, and I
15:21
said it's going to be 5 to 10 minutes turn around.
15:23
There's just no time with the cut offs.
15:26
There's no time to waste. So both my 2 transitions were 5
15:28
to 10 minutes and, and, but both times she was, yeah, she was
15:32
there ready with, with warm things, all my kit ready.
15:37
And yeah, we achieved really quick turnarounds both times.
15:41
So, yeah, no, really grateful for for her support.
15:44
I mean, she was having a great time anyway, you know, best best
15:46
friend and Keith Dunn and, and hanging out with Laz and David
15:49
Miller was there as well. And, and I think you do actually
15:53
have to be a bit careful about telling the wider world who was
15:56
there because you're allowed to turn up.
15:59
Partly why the nicknames, partly why he doesn't give names away
16:01
early Keith Dunn, and partly why there were nicknames is that
16:03
you're sort of allowed to turn up and have a bit of a nightmare
16:05
and disappear again. That's kind of allowed.
16:08
But I think it's well known that, yeah, Emma Stewart was
16:10
there. I mean, she didn't have a
16:11
nightmare. She did really well for the
16:12
first time. But Emma Stewart was there and
16:14
her partner James, who Ali knows well.
16:17
And yeah, David Miller, the photographer was there.
16:19
And then, yeah, you know, John Kelly and the Canadian gang.
16:23
And then we had the French, you know, the French gang as well.
16:25
So I was just chatting to Ali last night actually about what
16:28
camp was just she said it was just this wonderful, supportive
16:31
place. Like it doesn't feel like a race
16:33
because almost no one finishes. So you're you're not really
16:36
competing that against each other that much.
16:38
So she said that Leo people sharing food she had problems
16:41
with. We had problem buying, buying
16:44
gas, whoops, fossil fuels. But you know, you've got to got
16:47
to make my tea somehow. And, and we bought a, you know,
16:51
bought a little new cooker, but that didn't work very well.
16:54
But then, so, you know, someone just stepped in and offered
16:55
their cooker even though, even though they had a limited, you
16:58
know, limited supply things. Like that camaraderie?
17:00
Yeah, Camp. Yeah, they were lovely.
17:02
Yeah, it was a really. There's a really lovely vibe, so
17:05
I'm told. That's fab.
17:06
So while you're out there in the woods by yourself, what's your
17:10
brain doing? Did you have any strange
17:12
hallucinations this year while you were running out there?
17:14
I was starting to hallucinate, and normally it starts with, I
17:17
guess trees and rocks sort of turning into shapes, maybe dogs
17:23
or people. But nowadays it's so sort of
17:27
common for me that it's a bit like, oh, here we go again.
17:30
Just an everyday occurrence. You kind of is, kind of is.
17:34
So it's not as exciting. My best exciting, most exciting
17:37
ones have probably been at the Tour de Gym where it was sort
17:39
of, yeah, inflatable Penguins and inflatable sharks.
17:42
But out here it was just, it was just the weird shapes to start
17:45
with. And probably often, yeah, I'd
17:47
love to know more about what's going on psychologically.
17:50
But probably often you're a bit lonely and you kind of want to
17:52
see another person. So it might be that that's that
17:56
that's happening. I remember one year, my first
17:58
year actually, I had a lot of sort of audio.
18:00
I've forgotten the proper term, but like audio hallucinations
18:04
where you just hear, yeah, you kind of, a lot of the time it
18:07
was rivers, because there's a lot of rivers and you, you think
18:09
they're people talking? Or actually, I asked a French
18:11
runner to turn his radio off once.
18:13
Of course, you're not allowed radios or any electronical
18:16
items. So it was just the the noise of
18:17
the stream. But I thought it was French pop
18:19
music. So yes, it was starting to go a
18:23
bit weird, but it didn't go fully weird.
18:24
I wasn't out there long enough. Good to hear that it didn't go
18:27
fully weird, I suppose. And we've asked our community at
18:31
the Green Runners on socials what they wanted to know.
18:34
So I've got a few questions for you that have come directly from
18:38
our members. So this one's anonymous, but
18:42
they would like to know what is it about the Barclay Marathons
18:45
that made it be the event so that you took your first flight
18:49
of the year? Oh yeah.
18:52
I mean, it'll be my, yeah, my only flight for running for the
18:56
year. And I've, it's the only thing
18:57
I've flown to in 7-7 years. I mean, I'm quite lucky.
19:01
I've, when I look at the race, you know, the big races around
19:03
the world and you know, I have done most, most of the ones I
19:06
can think of that I want to do. But yeah, for running, I pledged
19:09
to fly only, only once a year maximum.
19:11
And, and, and my average now is sort of what every flying once
19:14
every two years. But there's just some, there's
19:18
something special about being there.
19:20
There's a, there's a wonderful little community feeling it, it
19:23
does feel exclusive, I won't lie, because just not that many
19:26
people can go there. They're not allowed to that many
19:28
people in the it's ecologically sensitive and there's fears
19:31
about poaching and creating fresh trails and and so on.
19:34
So it is very limited. So I feel very lucky to, to take
19:39
part and for me it's like the ultimate puzzle in in in the
19:42
sport because I can't do it. I'll keep well, I think I'll
19:46
keep trying. And it's just like I've done.
19:51
I guess I'm drawn to, I guess I love 100 miles, but probably
19:55
love a bit beyond 100 miles. Adds an extra element of
19:58
adventure. So I've done Tour de Geon 3
19:59
times, I've done the Spine Race, started it five times, finished
20:03
at four. And the truth is, and even UTMB,
20:06
I've probably had my best run. I've had all of those.
20:09
I feel like I, it's not necessarily about winning or
20:12
finishing, it's about coming away and thinking actually that
20:14
was the best I could do. And I feel like all three of
20:16
those races I've done my best, but I haven't yet at the
20:19
Barclay. And, and it is just this huge
20:20
puzzle that is really eluding me of.
20:23
And the thing I find hardest isn't the physical elements.
20:26
I feel like I, I feel like I physically can do it.
20:28
It's being able to make calculated, good, precise,
20:33
calculated decisions when you're very, very fatigued.
20:36
And I'm finding that I'm finding that pretty hard.
20:39
So yeah, it's elude. It's eluding me.
20:42
And it's just, yeah, it's special and it's the biggest
20:44
puzzle out there. I think it's the best answer.
20:46
So yeah, I won't fly for anything else this year.
20:49
And I actually can't think. I've got to be careful.
20:51
I won't make an absolute pledge of this, but I can't actually
20:53
can't think of anything else I'd fly for.
20:54
And obviously Europe, most of Europe is, you know, I found,
20:59
you know, the Channel Tunnel and then trains is pretty accessible
21:03
that way. But yes, it's just kind of the
21:05
ultimate, the ultimate puzzle. So Catherine has asked, if you
21:10
weren't really good at running, or if you couldn't run because
21:14
you were injured, what would you do instead?
21:20
Well, well, before, I probably think I would go back to what I
21:25
did before I sort of discovered that people ran these long
21:28
distances and and I really, I was AI was a trekker or a hiker.
21:32
And I guess I did do a bit of mountaineering, but it's so hard
21:37
to get to do mountaineering and expensive.
21:40
But I did love. Yeah.
21:41
I'd already hiked the pen on way.
21:43
I'd hiked the coast to coast. I'd hiked being trail and the
21:47
Everest base camp trek. So I was already when I
21:51
discovered ultra running and then discovered it actually
21:53
wasn't that different. You just, you just jogged,
21:55
jogged the flats and the downs. Really.
21:57
Yeah. Yeah.
21:58
And carried a bit less kit. I'd probably go back to that.
22:03
I mean, I do like that we all feel we're time poor and yeah,
22:06
I've got kids and like, say the Southwest Coast Path, you know,
22:11
I did my, I did go and run that in less than two weeks, whereas
22:14
hiking it probably takes six weeks.
22:17
OK, You could say, you could argue you're not absorbing it as
22:20
as fully as if you're hiking it possibly.
22:21
But yeah, I think I would go back to that.
22:24
That's still a great, it's not really a sport, is it?
22:26
But it's, it's a, it's a great way to be outdoors and, and have
22:29
adventures really. I thought you'd say, oh, I might
22:31
train to become a scientist and that way you might actually
22:35
complete Barclays. I'll go and do work experience
22:37
for Jasmine and I'd be like the the vet in League of Gentlemen
22:43
and accidentally blowing up small mammals, OK.
22:45
Explode. Moving on.
22:46
Moving on. Right.
22:48
Alia would like to know. Well, she's talking about
22:51
progress over perfection, actually.
22:52
And she would like to know what have been the everyday things in
22:55
your running life, which is which have helped you to be more
22:58
green? In the running life, yeah, I
23:04
think it. Yeah.
23:05
It boiled down to three things to me when I looked into it for
23:08
my less less selling book. We can't run away from this.
23:14
Yeah, it comes down to three things for for a runner, really.
23:16
It's it's your travel, it's your kit and your fuelling.
23:21
Fuelling is a bit more tricky because obviously you're
23:25
fuelling throughout the day anyway.
23:27
You know you're going to eat if you're running or not or, or
23:29
you'd hope so. But the of those three, I
23:34
thought I can, yeah, I can definitely cut down on flying
23:36
and, and, and travel in general, but I didn't feel like I could
23:40
totally commit to like sort of never flying again.
23:42
I think I believe Xavier Thevenor, the French runner
23:45
who's won UTB 3 times, I'm pretty sure he said he would
23:47
never fly to race again, which is really impressive.
23:50
And we know that Finley Wilde hasn't flown for years and years
23:53
and years and, but he still goes out to say he's a gamma and
23:56
those sorts of races. So yeah, yeah, fully celebrate.
24:00
People have made that commitment.
24:01
I think it's, it's incredible. And but like, yeah, I cut
24:06
massively down. I thought, well, I pledged to
24:07
just fly once once a year, but it still felt a bit like
24:09
imperfect. And then with with with kit,
24:13
really it's, I guess it's obviously it's making things
24:15
last, but really it's the overconsumption.
24:17
So being an ambassador responsible athlete, it's I was
24:22
just uncomfortable saying, hey, everyone, buy this stuff, buy
24:24
this stuff. And especially this sometimes
24:27
was pressure. You know, you, you know, you
24:30
haven't really, you've only had it a couple of weeks.
24:32
So you don't really know if it's good or durable and durability
24:36
is a decent sort of thing to aim for, you know, kit the lasts and
24:41
can be repaired. But really, yeah.
24:45
So I've got a good understanding with my current sponsor now that
24:49
yeah, there's there's absolutely no direct pressure to say you
24:52
should promote this. And but I am still obviously,
24:58
you know, an ambassador for a sports web brand.
25:01
And yeah, I can't pretend I'm not pretending I'm being perfect
25:05
there. So I thought I felt with those
25:06
two, I was imperfect. I was doing doing a reasonable
25:09
amount, but imperfect. So when it came to the fueling,
25:12
I was like, well, what's it like to be vegan?
25:14
I'll try that out. And that apparently could reduce
25:17
your footprint from food by up to 74%.
25:20
I think people maybe underestimate the impact of beef
25:23
above all else. It's just, it's just huge
25:25
compared to any of the food stuff you can, you can consume.
25:29
So I just tried it for a bit and I was like, this is all right.
25:33
And it was actually kind of easier than I thought.
25:35
I mean, I did it right at the trendy time we're talking, I
25:38
think it is five years ago now. But you know, I was surprised
25:42
that, you know, motorway services or most cafes, most
25:45
restaurants now, 90% of the time there's, there's, there's
25:48
options for us, us, us annoying vegans.
25:52
And I was like, this isn't this isn't too bad.
25:54
And then I really monitored my, I did sort of regular blood
25:58
tests to really check. I didn't, you know, I was, I was
26:00
nervous about sort of underperforming as an athlete.
26:03
I was still good back then and there there was no real
26:07
difference. I do take some supplements,
26:09
B12D3, Omega-3 each day. And yeah, I'm lucky to sort of
26:14
work with Rene McGregor, sports, world renowned sports dietitian,
26:17
has done some great books. But that, that one to me was
26:21
kind of easier to be. It's still not perfect, is it?
26:23
But it's a big sort of commitment.
26:27
So that's the one. I was happy.
26:29
I have those three. I wanted to make one of them a
26:31
proper good big commitment. And I, I, I that one felt more
26:36
reasonable and realistic. So that that's the big one for
26:38
me, I guess. Yeah.
26:41
Good ones. So Nadine has asked how can we
26:45
translate the resilience we have through running to fighting for
26:48
the planets? And she says how do we find hope
26:51
in the dark? Damien, can you answer that
26:54
question? It's a bit deep.
26:56
Well. I tell you, one thing that
26:59
happened overnight actually was, was the Green Party got another
27:01
seat. I know we're not.
27:02
I know, I know the Green runners are a apolitical and we're not.
27:06
We're not openly sort of supporting one party over
27:07
another. But I was very happily surprised
27:10
to see that's the fifth Green MPI Believe.
27:12
And that was a really tightly fought seat.
27:14
And I think they overturned a 15,000 majority or something or,
27:16
or gained 15,000 votes. And that especially with the the
27:21
rise of the sort of the new right and the horrible stuff
27:26
that's going on there. And I was quite despairing about
27:28
all of that recently. But yeah, that that I think that
27:30
gives us hope. Looking for those chinks of
27:33
lights even when you feel that there's nothing to be done.
27:37
Yeah, and also going to be careful I say this, but I, I
27:40
occasionally get surprised I'll be out on the hill with someone
27:43
and, and you kind of think, oh, we're out running in green
27:45
places. They must think the same
27:47
political things as me, that they're good people.
27:49
I can tell they're good people. And then they'll say something
27:51
and surprising, let's say. And you kind of think they, oh,
27:56
they see things differently. And that's, you know, that's OK.
27:58
And the world's better for that. But that does give me hope
28:02
because there is some there are people we've got a lot of common
28:06
in who obviously do see things a bit differently and how how do I
28:12
sort of say this, but that it gives me hope that there is a
28:15
lot in common with them. So I guess it gives me hope that
28:17
they may, I guess, ultimately change their minds and see make
28:22
make better decisions. Yes.
28:24
So I don't be, I don't be yes. And to patronize in there.
28:27
But but like, yeah, even some of those people who seem very
28:32
different politically, we do have things in common with them
28:35
And, and ultimately they are still good people almost always.
28:38
They care about things, care about other people and and and
28:41
so on. It's just, you know, politicians
28:43
in the media is it can be very manipulative and very clever.
28:45
Absolutely. Bringing it down a little bit to
28:49
to a more lighter topic. Trail runners clubs have asked
28:54
about tea. How much did you drink post
28:57
Berkeley to decompress? Well, I am in the habit now of
29:03
taking, yeah, taking my Yorkshire Gold tea bags abroad
29:09
because let's be honest, America does many things well, but tea
29:12
isn't one of them. I didn't Lipton was my least
29:16
favorite type of tea anyway. But over here, I don't think, I
29:18
don't know if it's obvious that it's AUS tea, but when you go to
29:22
America, it's it, it often says, you know, proudly American or
29:25
something and you go. That explains it.
29:27
Yeah, and especially Tennessee and me and John Kelly argue back
29:30
and forth. You know, he does like tea, but
29:33
it's it's iced tea. But it's not even iced tea that
29:35
he likes. He likes sweet tea.
29:38
So obviously, yes, sweet. And, and they sell it in the
29:40
supermarkets, you know, massive jugs of it in over there.
29:44
So sweet tea. And yeah, I mean, Tennessee is a
29:47
warmer place than here, and I can appreciate how that might
29:50
see appealing. But, yeah, cold tea.
29:54
So I don't know how many, but I must admit, Ally Bailey was very
29:57
supportive. And I was just, I was just a
29:59
pathetic Groani man wreck for at least two days.
30:03
And she did bring me endless cups of tea.
30:06
That's great support. Gold, yes.
30:08
That's great support. OK, last question from our
30:11
community now and this one comes from Underground Run Club, who
30:15
firstly want to say congratulations and then they
30:18
say how do you prep for the Barclay versus the Spine race?
30:23
And also, do you think there will be a next time?
30:28
I mean, I would just say Barclays, yeah.
30:29
It's still, it's still a significant itch that I would
30:32
like to scratch. How do you prep?
30:35
I think there's two main things. I mean, firstly, like anything
30:38
you're trying to get as fit as you can first of all, and get
30:41
your economy up and yeah, keep the speed work in there and
30:43
strength. And then you might switch to a
30:46
more specific phase. And really for Barclay, it's
30:48
steep, steep, steep. Vert, vert, vert.
30:50
It's hike, it is hiking, it's steep hiking, knee, knees,
30:55
sometimes up to the chest. So I would, yeah.
30:58
I mean, ban outbreak in the Yog is pretty good.
31:00
And it's rough terrain as well. You don't really want to be on
31:02
trails that much. I had a good day in the
31:05
Howgills. There's a orienteering.
31:08
That's the other thing to do as well is to practice orienteering
31:10
or for me at least there are some self sort of, there are
31:15
some navigation, sorry, orienteering routes you can go
31:18
and do now in, in some apps. And so there's nothing on the
31:22
ground, but when you get there, it's sort of when you get to the
31:24
right control, it beeps. So I went and did a long like a
31:27
six hour 1 in the dark on my own in the Hal Gills in the rain.
31:30
And there's a decent vert there as well.
31:32
So that was pretty good. And then, yeah, steep, yeah,
31:34
steep. Vert and orienteering really are
31:37
the two things. And barefoot, barefoot, barefoot
31:40
river crossings. I'm going back again.
31:43
You've talked about Barclay and wanting to to itch that scratch,
31:47
scratch that itch, the spine. You'd be doing that again.
31:53
I absolutely love the spine, the spine races, especially winter.
31:57
Yeah, I think I probably will to me, certainly this year.
32:03
I know some, I mean, somehow Sebastian Rachel, Yeah,
32:05
completed the full winter spine. And then I think it's only four,
32:08
maybe 5 weeks later. Yeah, I did 3 loops of the
32:10
Barclay. But of course he, you know, he,
32:13
he couldn't do 5, although no one could.
32:18
And I don't know if he has another job or not is the truth
32:21
of it. And I think he has at least one
32:24
child, but she's pretty grown up.
32:26
She was out of the Berkeley. So I guess what I'm trying to
32:29
say is, yeah, recovery is sometimes about lifestyle as
32:31
well. So I wouldn't, I don't think I'd
32:33
try and do a full spine and and then a Barkley personally, yes,
32:38
it's the sparkly. I'm quite proud of that one, the
32:41
sparkly. So they're only, I think they're
32:42
only, there's only sort of me, John Kelly and Sebastian
32:45
Rayshawn, who have come close to a sparkly double.
32:49
So now you have a new nickname. Yes.
32:54
So yeah, I'd love to do the spine again, but to me it
32:57
probably too close to the to the Barkley Marathons.
33:00
Although who knows when where they'll put it this time.
33:01
Probably June or something. So as we know, we're both
33:06
members of the Green Runners. I see how passionate you are
33:09
about the planet, but you have just flown to Tennessee.
33:11
As we've just discussed, some call this the climate hypocrite
33:15
paradox. So how do you respond to the Why
33:19
should I bother If a Green Runners leader is flying
33:22
comments, how do you come back at those?
33:25
Yeah, I guess I used to have a lot more sort of anxiety around
33:29
it and I didn't fly for two or three years at one point.
33:35
And I've discussed it with Jasmine as well.
33:37
And we, I think ultimately I think you've got to ask as well,
33:43
like, do we want elite sport? And I know, I know ultra
33:47
running's very niche, but do we want elite sport?
33:51
And I think hopefully most people would say we do, you
33:55
know, the bit, the some of the worst events environmentally on
33:58
the on the whole planet, Olympic Games and football World Cup.
34:02
But do we want those things? Like I think, you know, I think
34:05
most people say we do still want them if we can, you know, if
34:08
they're justifiable, could they be better?
34:11
Probably, almost definitely. So we so yeah.
34:15
I mean, sport is, is, is so powerful, more powerful than
34:18
than, you know, music or or or film or anything really
34:23
culturally. So it's sport is, is in in so
34:27
many ways. So sport is amazing.
34:29
Do we want elite sport? I think I think most of us will
34:32
say yes, but then, but then it's like, well, if, if there's an
34:36
elite sports person who, you know, voices concern, they're
34:39
automatically a hypocrite. So, but hopefully people can see
34:44
that I'm, you know, I've, I've, I've done, you know, there's my
34:47
own personal footprint, but then there's which has, you know,
34:50
been dramatically shrunk over the last few years seeing once
34:54
I've learned sort of which of the key aspects of that.
34:57
And you know, I've discussed that in a previous answer.
35:00
And then to me, it's more about your carbon shadow, your sort of
35:03
influence. So for me, that's sort of, you
35:05
know, Co founding the green runners are being involved that
35:08
although you 2 know, I don't really do any of the actual real
35:10
work, you 2 do. Thank you.
35:12
Thank you for all your work and and using influence and not had
35:17
not being afraid to speak up really and and knowing that when
35:20
you speak up, there will be, you know, somewhat in the corner who
35:23
goes and then and there. But you got a car once I I saw
35:27
you buy a new pair of trainers. So we can't be perfect.
35:30
Yeah, progression, progress over perfection.
35:33
But I yeah, the fear. I've definitely got other elite
35:36
athlete friends who care but don't want the hassle of
35:40
speaking out. They don't want And you know,
35:43
which is better if we all stayed quiet?
35:47
Yeah, where do we get to? And, And so, yeah, I'm, I'm,
35:51
I'm, I'll put my hands up and say to some people like
35:53
hypocrite. But some of that is, you know,
35:54
without being too argumentative, some of that is what about 3?
35:58
Which what about 3 is basically instead of thinking about your
36:02
own maybe ethics and behaviours, you do, you just point out an
36:06
inconsistency or an imperfection somewhere else.
36:08
And that's quite a common response.
36:10
That is, well, it's a very common response on social media.
36:13
And yeah, I mean, I used to bother me at the beginning.
36:16
It doesn't anymore because I know I, I almost see the green
36:20
runner stuff as kind of almost, almost offsetting occasional,
36:24
you know, occasional flights. So we really are talking 11
36:26
return flight every other year at the moment.
36:29
And, and I and I guess, yeah, if and if we can't be perfect as
36:32
well, be transparent, which is what we're doing right now.
36:35
And I've got a blog on my website about travel.
36:38
So. I mean, yeah.
36:38
And some people will think that's fine.
36:40
And some people won't. And you can't please.
36:41
You can't please everyone. But I'm, I'm happy that I'm
36:43
speaking up and doing the things I am.
36:45
And I want to look back, I suppose.
36:46
Yeah. In 1020 years, when your kids
36:48
go, your generation had the chance to do something, what did
36:51
you do? What will have more impact
36:54
actually, you know, me speaking up or being quiet.
36:58
Yeah. So I'm I'm happy with what I'm
36:59
doing ultimately. Well, as you say, these events
37:02
are still going to go ahead and it's better, therefore, 1 might
37:05
say, to have somebody there speaking up on behalf of green
37:09
runners everywhere as opposed to having nobody speaking up.
37:12
So it's kind of offsetting like you said.
37:14
Before, and I think, I think I can't remember the numbers, but
37:17
you know, Jasmine Paris, when she completed the Barclay and
37:19
she went out three times, yeah, we had a huge bump in membership
37:22
and interest, didn't we? So ultimately, you know, a lot
37:25
of good came from, you know, an unfortunate, you know, flight,
37:30
but it's not, you know, we're not.
37:34
And it was considered, you know, that's the other thing.
37:36
It's about considering the impact of what you're doing as
37:40
well, which a lot of people forget.
37:41
And, you know, the fact that you're taking the time to think
37:44
about what it, what it means and what its impact is, is, is
37:47
really big. It's a really big step for a lot
37:49
of people. Some people just would fly
37:51
without, you know, 2 seconds of thought.
37:53
And so it's just kind of changing that mindset slowly as
37:56
well. I I think as well perhaps.
37:58
Yes, yes. So I in April will be running
38:03
the as eco pilgrims the Camino de Santiago which is a Pilgrim
38:09
route across northern Spain. So I'm going to try and do it. 0
38:12
carbon, no flying, local food, vegan diet.
38:16
But I want to know damo after the Barclay marathons.
38:19
Does a slow pilgrimage feel like a valid form of adventure to
38:23
you? Oh yeah, absolutely.
38:26
I think that sounds brilliant. How long do you think it would
38:29
take? Well, there's some debate.
38:32
We've got a schedule for five days, which puts it about 40
38:35
miles a day, which I'm a bit scared of.
38:37
And then I've got another schedule for kind of seven,
38:40
which will make it far more enjoyable, which I'm gunning
38:43
for. But let's see.
38:44
Watch this space. Watch this space.
38:47
Also, I'm following a training plan that you very kindly wrote
38:50
me. So I'm permanently knackered at
38:51
the moment. Thank you ever so much.
38:55
I think, I think it sounds like a brilliant adventure.
38:57
I'm I'm already a bit jealous of it sounds, sounds great.
39:00
And that that I mean, that's why our sport is so brilliant,
39:02
right? You don't have to do an event
39:05
itself. You can just go and have an
39:07
adventure somewhere. And you know, it's not, you're
39:09
not going for a record necessarily.
39:11
You can just, yeah, I say relax. It will definitely be hard.
39:13
But yeah, that's what you can just have a, you know?
39:18
Yeah, have it. Mindful Adventure.
39:20
Yeah, no, it's it's brilliant, I think.
39:23
Yes, without, without stupid books and hidden in trees to
39:27
look for. I think that sounds.
39:28
I think that sounds very nice indeed.
39:30
Very sensible. Listen.
39:32
How can runners that are listening right now apply our
39:36
green runners pillars, which is how we move, how we kit up, how
39:39
we fuel and how we speak out to their own adventures?
39:42
What's the best way to do it? I mean, my favorite pillar was
39:48
has always been the how we speaking out because that always
39:50
seemed more to me more significant.
39:52
And that comes comes primarily from the excellently named.
39:59
I'm going to get this wrong. She's a Canadian scientist,
40:02
Professor Catherine Hayhoe. I think it is.
40:06
And she said the number one thing we can do is talk about
40:08
it. And so I would just encourage
40:09
people not to be frightened to say, you know, did.
40:13
Whether it's social media or, or, or amongst friends or family
40:15
or just, you know, just share that you made a good decision,
40:18
you know, a lower carbon decision or you decided actually
40:21
you didn't need, I don't know, to buy something new yet.
40:24
You know, maybe you're going to wait for three months or, or,
40:27
but I'd probably travel, yeah, making good travel decisions or
40:30
deciding actually you don't need to do that race.
40:34
Just trying to share that really.
40:35
I, I think, I think that's the biggest thing speaking out.
40:38
I would urge people to yeah, just speak up more and we don't
40:42
yeah, we don't want to be too annoying or too what's the word
40:45
kind of, you know, think we've solved the world by, you know,
40:48
doing 11 little thing, but just let's just make this stuff
40:50
normal, you know, But at the same time, don't be frightened
40:55
of, you know, it's not reasonable yet to all never fly
41:00
again. And for example, like when it
41:02
comes to my children and their holidays, yeah, we don't fly
41:05
every year. But it's like it doesn't feel
41:07
like we're at the stage yet where they shouldn't.
41:09
I'm going off a bit of a tangent, but where they
41:10
shouldn't be allowed to see other parts of the world like we
41:13
have. I mean, yeah, you could argue
41:15
flights should be much more expensive and there should be a
41:17
carbon tax and things like that. But.
41:18
But at the moment, yeah. What am I guessing at?
41:22
Yeah, I think, I think share. I just think speaking up and
41:24
sharing. Having those conversations.
41:26
Yeah, yeah, because you don't have to be vegan, you don't have
41:28
to never bind your kit again. You don't have to stop racing.
41:30
I'd still, I'd still encourage people to pursue their dream
41:33
races or challenges, but I think, yeah, just talk, just
41:38
talking. About it, it's progress over
41:39
perfection, which we say over and over again, don't we?
41:42
No, nobody's perfect. We all make decisions that
41:45
impact the planet, but it's how we approach it, how we think
41:49
about it and and having those conversations.
41:51
Now I'm going to ask you, where do people go if they want to
41:53
join the green runners in the hope that you're going to
41:55
seamlessly reel off the website here?
41:58
But I can always help. I mean, I'm hoping it's
42:02
thegreenrunners.com. It is.
42:03
Yes, people should go to thegreenrunners.com You can sign
42:07
up as a member which is £2 a month with a £20.20 not £20.20
42:13
transaction fee. So £2.20 a month to join the
42:16
Green Runners. And I only hesitated because I
42:17
know we've revamped the website in the last few months.
42:21
It looks very snazzy. So that's quite a dad word,
42:24
wasn't it? Snazzy.
42:25
I have turned. 50 Snazzy, snazzy, funky, trendy.
42:28
I don't know any of the new words, but yes, sick I think is
42:32
is 1 potentially. But by joining Green Runner,
42:36
we're building stronger communities with more resources
42:39
and that money covers our core costs like website and insurance
42:42
and all the boring stuff as well.
42:44
And it brings hopefully, you know, grassroots, grassroots
42:47
action and brings volunteers together.
42:50
So if people want to know a little bit about you, Damo, in
42:54
more depth, including your coaching and your writing, where
42:57
should they look? Oh yeah, it's I'm sure people
43:00
listening to this have had quite enough.
43:02
But I do have a website Ultra Demo and I think on Instagram
43:06
I'm Ultra under score demo. I only worked with that because
43:09
my name was already gone though. It's not me trying to be one of
43:11
those, you know, but if you'll forgive a horrible bit of self
43:15
promotion, I've got a book coming out on 9th of April
43:18
called Run Forever, which is about sort of how to how to age
43:22
optimally as a runner. And I also have, I feel really
43:27
awkward saying this as well, but a speaking tour in April and May
43:30
around the country, 19 dates where I will talk about, I don't
43:36
know, share my adventures of my running adventures, including
43:39
the Barclay. And yeah, some of the some of
43:42
the green stuff, but also some of the sort of anti aging stuff
43:45
as well. No idea quite well, I'll say
43:48
yet, but hopefully it's worthwhile.
43:50
But thank you for letting me mention those things.
43:52
Absolutely. And your book Run Forever,
43:54
that's kind of aimed at kind of more mature runners, you said.
43:57
So obviously one that I should be purchasing.
44:00
Masters, yeah, I'd say masters athletes, but actually, yeah,
44:03
anyone in their 30s, thirties and onwards really a starting
44:08
will be starting to have some physiological ageing, even if
44:11
them detected it yet. And it's some of the solutions
44:14
that aren't that shocking, but but what what happens to your
44:18
body if you don't do those things is pretty shocking.
44:21
So yes, there's and for most of us, we do need to train a little
44:25
bit differently as we age. But but they're also, we're a
44:28
pioneering generation and they're all sorts of impressive
44:31
masters athletes out out there. But I mean, not least, you know,
44:35
Jasmine's in her 40s now. And I, yeah, I've interviewed
44:39
sort of Anna Troop and Nicky Spinks and Joe Pavey and Debbie,
44:43
Debbie Martin, Debbie Martin Kasani.
44:45
There are all sorts of yeah, impressive in Keith, impressive
44:49
Masters athletes kicking, kicking butt, and long may that
44:52
continue. Sounds absolutely brilliant
44:55
Damo. As ever we are in all of your
44:57
dedication to Bog bothering and saving the planet.
45:00
Thank you so much for the chats and keep wearing that green
45:03
runners badge with pride. Thanks for talking to me.
45:07
Thanks ever so much.