Latest / Auto Collabs / A Job Your Mother-In-Law Would Be Proud Of with Matthew Haiken

Transcript

A Job Your Mother-In-Law Would Be Proud Of with Matthew Haiken · Auto Collabs

• 0:00
  So there's this principle that I, uh, Seth Godin, I think, is the first one who brought it up. [upbeat music] This is Auto Collabs. And he says- Always wear hats backwards in podcast. No.
• 0:18
  That's- [laughs] Well, that's, that's like the pregame. [laughs] I don't know if I've ever seen Seth Godin in a hat, but I did find out he rides a big Harley. Whoa.
• 0:27
  So I just picture Seth Godin on a Harley- Seth God- Wait, wait, wait. Seth Godin rides a big Harley? Rumor has it.
• 0:34
  And I just picture him with an orange helmet, riding through the streets of New York City in a suit, and it just sound- it just feels right. It just feels right.
• 0:42
  I picture him now wearing a helmet that is a replica of his bald head- No... so that no one can tell the difference. [laughs] No one can tell the difference. It's perfect. I- no, there's definitely goggles involved.
• 0:54
  It's not right for this. Oh, absolutely. There's definitely goggles involved. There's gotta be a stirrup.
• 0:57
  And it's, and, and there's actually a new, there's actually a new call, uh, album called Goggins and, uh, or, uh, Godin and Goggles. [laughs] Goggins and Goggles? Go- Goggins and Goggles. Go- Godin and Goggles. Oh.
• 1:07
  Godin and Goggles. Godin and Goggles. So back to that principle now- Godin and Goggles-... that I've derailed our whole conversation... all right, so [laughs] I, I do that all the time. I chase the squirrel.
• 1:15
  [laughs] But the, the principle is he says, he calls it find the others. Mm. And he talks about what happens when groups of...
• 1:23
  He talked about it when, like, the internet came out and all of a sudden, like, if you like to wear red hats, you can find other people that wear red hats, and you can g- organize a bus trip full of people that like to wear red hats and go a place, right?
• 1:34
  Yeah. In your red hats.
• 1:35
  And, but the bottom line is, like, when you start to find the others, a strange thing starts to happen and you start to believe in what you believe in even more deeply because you've connected with other people who believe the same thing.
• 1:47
  And today's guest, Matthew Hakken, came to us that way.
• 1:50
  We put out More Than Cars episode one, the pilot episode, if you haven't seen it, morethancars.tv, and he saw it, and he was like, "The, these are my, these are my people. Like, I believe the same thing." That's awesome.
• 2:02
  And so he reached out, and we've started to build this relationship, and you realize, man, there are people that believe these things all over the country that we just have no idea that e- we exist.
• 2:12
  And so, you know, that's Matthew. I don't know. Does anybody else wanna say anything, or should I just roll us into the interview? [laughs] Well, I was just- Roll it... thinking about- [laughs]
• 2:22
  I was just thinking about rubber ducks and Jeeps. You guys know the whole... 'Cause this is, like, kind of what you're- Oh, it's a whole thing. It's a whole thing. Yeah, absolutely.
• 2:30
  And I didn't realize it was a whole thing until I moved to the States, where, uh, where you, you pass a Jeep on the, on the highway, or you see them in a parking lot, and their whole dash- There's, like, 83 ducks...
• 2:39
  is covered in- Yes... rubber ducks. I do- I don't, I don't know what this is. What? Apparently
• 2:46
  if s- There's, like, there's stores that have, like, buckets of duck- rubber ducks in the front, and, like, Jeep, and Jeep stores, and people just come and pick a new one out. I...
• 2:54
  The funny part is I've seen the rubber ducks, but I've just thought, like, "That's a dealership. They're doing some kind of crazy promo." [laughs] Nope. No, no.
• 3:00
  You know, throw it in a kiddie pool, and they're gonna, like, put a percentage underneath of it, and that's your APR. No, it's- [laughs]...
• 3:04
  it's basically exactly what you were just talking about, and, and just adds validity to that thought process in my mind. When you s- if you're a Jeep...
• 3:12
  'Cause, 'cause that community's tight anyways, almost like motorcycle culture. Right. You know, you, you pass a motorcyclist- Not quite waving to each other when we pass, but- R- Right Right... in a Jeep.
• 3:20
  Um, they put a, they put a, they'll leave a little rubber duck on your Jeep for you, and then that Jeep owner displays it on their dash. So it's, like, just a, I don't know. It, it, it's...
• 3:32
  I was gonna say it's dumb, uh, but it obviously works- It's not dumb... 'cause it's so widespread. It's really cool. So it's pretty cool. Uh- It's created a massive community... and that's what I was thinking about.
• 3:39
  We need... I just realized that I forgot, Michael, that you ride, and I ride, and Kyle runs, so that's a good combo. It's basically- You and I can ride, and Kyle can run alongside us.
• 3:48
  [laughs] I'll run alongside you guys. Not a problem. Well, with that being said- Hey, well, we hope you enjoy this conversation, uh, which is all about finding the others with Matthew.
• 3:59
  [upbeat music] Hey, Matt, thanks for giving us some time today. Uh, I'm really looking forward to seeing where this goes because, uh, if I've learned one thing about you, you are unpredictable.
• 4:10
  [laughs] All right, well, that, I like that. Hard to read. He's like, "Fair. Fair." [laughs] So let me ask you this question, though. Um, we are, we are fairly new friends, right?
• 4:22
  We've been, uh, both in the industry for a long time, and we just met, like, a couple of months ago. What, what was your impression when you saw us so do? [laughs] World. Like, what were you even thinking?
• 4:33
  So- I always wonder that... uh, so, uh, first of all, um, I tracked you guys down when I saw the first episode, um, that you guys launched. And- Oh, of More Than Cars? Of More Than Cars.
• 4:45
  And it, it, it just blew my mind, um, because for so long I would see all of these long form industry spotlight shows based on real estate, based on aviation, based on marine, and I'm just...
• 5:03
  I, I love automotive retail, and nobody could, could tackle it. And I saw your first episode, and I was like, just that's, that is what I imagined.
• 5:17
  Um, and I just went nuts, and I, I tracked you down on social media and said, "Hey, what's going on?" [laughs] Like, "I wanna meet you. Uh, I love what you did." And then I knew one of, I guess, I'm friendly with...
• 5:31
  Am I supposed to drop names or not drop names? Drop as many names as you want. Drop, uh, in succession in order, right? I've been friends with Liza for many years. We're in the same 20 group.
• 5:41
  And, um, I guess she's one of your early investors. And I wrote to Liza- Yeah... and I was like, "What is this? Please tell me all about it." [laughs] She's like, "You don't know?" And, um- [laughs]
• 5:52
  And then, you know, we, we jumped on and we talked. And, and, and I think I was more disappointed, like, where the hell have I been? Like, h- did I hitch myself to the wrong wagon?
• 6:01
  Like, if, uh, like I didn't even know you guys existed. And, and, uh, fast-forward to today- It's a common tale these days. [laughs]Fast forward today where, like, I am, like, all in. Oh, yeah, you are.
• 6:13
  Joe- Oh, you're done now... I don't even know- We've roped you into everything. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah, right. [laughs] So, yeah, that's- that's how we connected. That's it. Yeah.
• 6:20
  Before you know it, Colin and I are gonna show up, you know, looking for a couple couches to crash on. Be like, "Hey, Matt, uh-" [laughs] Anytime. We're in New York. [laughs] Anytime. Anytime. It's my pleasure.
• 6:30
  So- so real quick, I wanna hear from your perspective, 'cause you're like, "I've seen all these shows about different, you know, different verticals and the way they present their vertical, and then I saw More Than Cars, and it was the way that I imagined it."
• 6:42
  Like, when- when you mean that, the way that I imagined it, and the way that, like, that show in particular kind of mapped toward all the other things that you've seen out there for other, uh, for other industries.
• 6:55
  Like, can you... Like, describe that from your perspective- It, for me-... because I- I'm always interested, like- It's simple. Like, working in automotive retail is glamorous.
• 7:04
  It should be something that you are proud to tell your mother-in-law about, okay? Mm. And it's not. It's not. People are embarrassed.
• 7:12
  P- people, you know, say, "Hey, I wanna get a job at- at a car dealership," um, I don't think it's something that they wanna shout through the rooftops. They'll, like, mumble it.
• 7:20
  They're embarrassed of it, and that's insane because everywhere I go, people wanna talk to me about cars and the car industry. And, you know, yesterday, I mean, everyone's coming up to me, "Tell me about the strike.
• 7:32
  Should I buy a car now?" Like, you know, we are l- leaders in our community, and, um, the stories that, um, that- that, you know, make up of our industry are amazing. Amazing.
• 7:48
  And w- you know, one of the metrics I always say, like, when- when I introduce myself and I say, "Hey, I- I sell cars," you know, and- and if people, like, huff and puff, you know, one thing I've always, like, leaned on is I was- I was like, "Do you know how many sports team owners own car dealerships?
• 8:03
  Do you know the-" I hadn't thought of that... "wealthiest two guys on the planet, like Warren Buffett and Bill Gates, are the biggest car dealers?" Like, we- Car dealers, yeah...
• 8:12
  we- like, everybody wants to be a car dealer, and we need to- we need to be proud of this.
• 8:17
  And- and we need to because we're in the people business, and, you know, we've got a lot of- a lot of competition coming down the pike.
• 8:25
  And everyone thinks that they're the smartest guy in the room and they can reinvent our business, and all the Wall Street people think they know our business, but at the end of the day, we're a people business.
• 8:34
  And for us to just keep growing and getting stronger and better, we need to attract the best talent to the industry. So you've been in- you've been in the industry how long then? Yeah, I need to know this one.
• 8:41
  So this is s- this is my 18th year full time. Um, my dad was a single point, um, car dealer operator who, um, had to beg, borrow, and steal to get his first opportunity to be a car dealer. What brand? Uh, it was Volvo.
• 8:58
  It was Volvo. He had... You know, my dad, um, wasn't very studious as a kid.
• 9:03
  He, his parents were very, very hardworking people and, um, he had a lot of jobs and odd jobs and jumped in and out of school and kept changing schools and getting thrown out of school and, you know, started as, i- in the lot as- as a- as a valet and then became a service advisor and then became a service manager.
• 9:24
  Wow. And, you know, th- this same story that you hear over, over, and over again. Worked his way up to becoming a- a general manager at a store, and the owner promised him some equity.
• 9:34
  The deal blew up and, um, he ended up leaving the store, uh, after relocating his family, which is... I have two older sisters and- and I wasn't even born yet, and had no job.
• 9:46
  And, um, it was the manufacturers that called him up and said, "Hey, we wanna find an opportunity for you." And he was like, "I- I got no money." They're like, "Don't worry about it.
• 9:54
  Let's just, let's just find an opportunity for you." And- Wow... he drove around looking, uh, looking for opportunities.
• 10:00
  I mean, but, like, you hear that story every day and, you know- You don't get that in other industries. No. Oh, are you kidding me? That doesn't happen. No. No. Are you kidding me? Well- Okay, so 18 years. This is my...
• 10:12
  This is, like, to go back to the original. So 18. Are you seeing an acceleration of those conversations?
• 10:19
  Like, those- those conversations with friends and family members and people that you happen upon that find out you're a car dealer, and- and are the conversations about auto and- Oh, yeah.
• 10:29
  And that- Because that's what I'm- I'm a curious person... I think- I think it's new. I mean, everybody always wants to know, like, "Oh, I love cars," or, "Tell me how..." When's the best time to buy a car?
• 10:37
  Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But now it's like, we've got s- textier things to discuss, like, "Tell me about electrification. Tell me about, you know, the future." Like, you know, it's all these- these...
• 10:48
  It's, I think it's become a little bit more glamorous. Oh, it's part of pop culture without a doubt. I mean, you look at, like, thing, even events like CES, right? 100%.
• 10:56
  All of a sudden you- you see the swirling conversation around cars and tech and PlayStations and, like, all the integration of pop culture and automotive.
• 11:05
  We- we've been saying, you know, one of our little drums that we've been beating for the last year is, like, like, car culture, like, automotive hasn't been this attractive to the general public since, like, the '70s, right?
• 11:15
  When it was, like, muscle cars and... It's- it's a part of culture now. Yeah. Yeah. And- and, you know, that's...
• 11:20
  I mean, the strike is obviously it's just a, an economic thing, but you take that out of the equation and- and people have an interest. You know, you have a really unique spot.
• 11:29
  When I tell other dealers about you, uh, they get a little interested because you also have a Polestar dealership. Mm-hmm. Absolutely, and that's been crazy.
• 11:37
  And it's been crazy from the beginning, you know, for several- several things. First of all, we took over a former Tesla showroom, okay? Oh. So, um, so my Polestar space is in the mall at Short Hills.
• 11:50
  It's this uber luxury, um, shopping mall outside of New York City. And, um, we- we secured a spot and it, a- and then simultaneously, Tesla decided to leave the mall,
• 12:04
  um, 'cause now Tesla wants dealerships and EV startups wanna be in the mall. Ironic, right? [laughs] You're like, "This could just work out."
• 12:12
  Um, exactly.So we move into this Tesla space, and just, like, even uncovering, like, what was going on in this space, like the bulbs they used that weren't like the LED bulbs that the manufacturers mandate that we get for being green.
• 12:27
  I mean, these were, like, just cheap, down-and-dirty bulbs. [laughs] To then, um, it was just, it blew my mind. You're like, "You think Tesla-" Right, like that's the Tesla bulb? Yeah, exactly.
• 12:37
  Like, you were expecting something. You're like, no, they were like, "Let's be efficient with the bulb." Exactly. We don't have to. [laughs] I mean, genius. I mean, we should learn from that. Quick, efficient.
• 12:45
  Um, and then, yeah, learning how to staff and operate in a, in a mall was totally new to us. Yeah.
• 12:52
  And being all in on electrification and, and, and the, the ups and downs of the tax incentives and everything, I mean, um- Did, did people get confused?
• 13:01
  Like, were people, like, that walk by maybe familiar with the mall still think you were the Tesla store? They, they still are confused.
• 13:07
  I mean, they'll come in with a broken charger and be like, "Hey, my charger's broken. Can you replace it?" [laughs] We're like, "Oh, we're, welcome to Pulsar. We're Pulsar." "Yeah, I know.
• 13:13
  Yeah, yeah, but, uh, my, my Tesla charger's broken." Yeah. "No, no, we're not Tesla." [laughs] They don't even, they don't even, they just want- They just associate all electric with Tesla. Yeah, right.
• 13:21
  You plug the- Ex- exactly... you plug, these are the ones you plug in, right? Yeah. Right. I have a cord. [laughs] Yeah.
• 13:24
  And that'll show you that, like, the early, the early Tesla adapters were not, uh, they, product design they didn't care about, you know, they just wanted the product. They, they don't even look up and notice it.
• 13:34
  Um- So what, what's the experience been being a Puls- you know, aside from the, the retail space, what, what are, who are the consumers walking in? What are they looking for? Uh, what are the hang-ups, you know?
• 13:44
  'Cause, like, you're on the front lines of this EV, you know, EV revolution. Well, I think I, it's, it's really changed dramatically, right? So, uh, this is, uh, I think I'm going on my second anniversary.
• 13:54
  This is two years that I'm taking this Pulsar journey. Um, and in the beginning when we first launched, it was before the Inflation Reduction Act and those tax incentives. Um- Yeah...
• 14:05
  and it was during the time that there was major shortage of inventory, but we had a ton of inventory. So in the beginning, it was very interesting.
• 14:14
  We were getting these very sophisticated early adopter EV buyers that were basically like EV flippers. I mean, they knew everything. Huh.
• 14:25
  These people knew the time to buy a Bolt because they were giving away a complimentary home charger, and then they knew based on the market that they could get the Bolt, get the free charger, then trade in the Bolt, get more for the Bolt than they paid for it from new.
• 14:39
  Oh, they just were working it. Get the whole car. I mean, they worked this, the tax incentive- Wow... the 7,500 at the time. Um, they worked it brilliantly.
• 14:49
  And the, the, I mean, it was a- [laughs] It was fantasy land for us 'cause we had inventory, we had great value pricing, we were getting in the most beautiful trades you've ever seen in your life.
• 15:01
  [laughs] And we were, like, high-fiving each other. We thought we were the smartest guys on the block. [laughs] Obviously, you know, it's, it's- It's like when you have a first child- [laughs]...
• 15:10
  and that child just happens to have a pretty subdued personality. You're like, "What's, what's with all these other parents that suck," right? [laughs] Then you have the second one, and you're like, "Oh, okay.
• 15:19
  Maybe I wasn't that brilliant." [laughs] It, it, it's, it was crazy. You know, the market conditions were crazy, and then we navigated. So the, the, the earlier tax incentives go away. Um- Mm-hmm... IRA comes out.
• 15:33
  Manufacturers are still figuring out, do we give 7,500 on a lease? What's going on? Um, we have a, a major shortage of, of product, and, uh, it was super, super challenging.
• 15:46
  And it was, it was challenging in, in, in many ways, and still challenging because it's like, okay, um, I'm in a mall, I'm open seven days a week.
• 15:55
  Um, my traditional car guy and gal who's looking to, you know, sell a car for 10,000 over MSRP or something like this, uh, I can't attract.
• 16:05
  Um, the people that I'm getting are, are coming from these, um, startups that you would love. Like, we were getting, uh, you know, resumes from Peloton, resumes from Apple, re- r- Huh...
• 16:16
  you know, all these things that the manufacturers are, like, dreaming of. How do we get these people?
• 16:21
  We're getting these people in, and then we're figuring out, okay, these people might know tech really good, but they're really not that great at building relationships.
• 16:28
  They're not there to pick up the phone on the first ring after the sale when the customer has a question on DMV or a light just went on- Ah... or how servicing works. Interesting.
• 16:38
  So, like, it blew my mind with the people. Um, and, um, yeah, it- So where, so, so now what's the transition? Like, where- So, I mean, we're, we're-... where, where are you sourcing?
• 16:47
  We're, we're learning, we're still learning every day, you know? We're s- we, we really are. Right. Yeah. We're, you know, um, it, it, it is changing, right?
• 16:54
  Because, you know, what I have to say, when Elon bought Twitter or X as it is now, I mean, people are coming in all the, uh, all day long being like, "Ah, uh, screw Elon. We, we want choice. We want-" [laughs] "...
• 17:08
  we want a Pulsar." Ah. Um, a- again, like, so, like, I l- love this. Like, it, it's a startup. It, it- That's a constantly moving market. Just a moving target at all times. Exactly. Ex- Yeah...
• 17:19
  and that, that's why I signed up, and, and I love it because it's like, all right, we're gonna, we're gonna try to make it. You know, I was an early Fisker dealer when, when, um- Oh, no way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 17:29
  It was probably, like, the third brand I acquired that, you know, and that was just a major failure. But this is, this is a little bit different.
• 17:37
  I mean, I like to say, you know, a lot of the EV startups right now are still fantasy land. Like, if you look at the Rivians and the Lucids- Yep...
• 17:45
  you know, they're, they're, if, if you look at their sales numbers, they're really not selling a lot of cars. I mean, we're at least real life. We've got cars on the ground. We have real buyers.
• 17:52
  They're coming in every day. They're coming in for service every day. Mm-hmm. Um, and then, uh, a whole nother part of this, uh, is that, you know, Pulsar is, uh, on, is, is, you know, a, an online-first brand.
• 18:05
  So- Right... uh, it's negotiation-free, and the customer's journey really i- is, is their journey online. And, and- How does that handoff happen? Yeah. So, so, um-It's, that's, uh, an in- interesting question.
• 18:17
  So, um- [laughs] I was then- He's like acquiring- Remember the two years thing? [laughs] Yeah. Right. It, but it's ever changing. Well, that's a big topic of conversation, right?
• 18:26
  How do we hand off from digital to in-person? And you feel like with a digital first brand, maybe you have an insight or two 'cause it's designed for the handoff. The insight is, um, it's constantly changing, okay?
• 18:41
  [laughs] In the beginning, these early adapters that I told you about, they could complete the sale from A to Z, okay? Mm. They could do it. Um, and we'd wake up in the morning and we'd have- Tech savvy- Tech savvy-...
• 18:52
  great credit Not... Well, let me tell you about credit, okay?
• 18:56
  [laughs] Um, bad credit, near prime, not subprime, but near prime credit, loves a brand that does everything online because they no longer have to come into the store and face rejection. Ooh.
• 19:10
  So we had a lot of near prime credit in the beginning, um, because they just wanted to see if they'd get approved.
• 19:18
  I mean, they could sit at home in their pajamas and see if, you know, the deal's gonna get hung or if they're- So for, so near prime is like, and like, I just wanna make sure because there's a lot of people that might not know, like that 630 to 680 type- Yeah...
• 19:30
  type range- Yeah... ish. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I think I, you know, I'm not the first to say this, I think there's a lot of used car independence and they, they see the same thing.
• 19:38
  You know, if their digital retailing, uh, was strong, if they had the tools in place, they would see a lot of near prime.
• 19:44
  I think, I think Carvana was really successful with this because in that market, because people didn't wanna go into a traditional dealership and face rejection. So- Mm. Wow... that's, that's one thing.
• 19:53
  But we'd wake up in the morning and we'd get the orders and we'd high five each other, "Yes, we're awesome."
• 19:59
  Um, and then it really kind of dried up because people really weren't willing to hit that button, um, without someone kind of holding their hand. Yeah.
• 20:10
  So we would get a lot of inbound phone calls, "Hey, I'm about to place this order on this car. Can you walk me through it? Can you help me hit the button?" Um,
• 20:21
  so it's, it's all over the board and, and I, I think at, at the end of the day, you know, uh, uh, you gotta, you gotta be a chameleon. You gotta be able to do both. Um- You still, right. There's still no...
• 20:34
  Uh, people still buy the cars, right? And people are in all kinds of situations with all kinds of emotional attachments and all kinds of challenges. So, like
• 20:44
  buying a car online only, you're just show- you're just, again, like a, a proof case that it's just not a, it's not... I don't think it's ever gonna be a reality.
• 20:52
  Well, there, uh, there, also there were all these struggles that we had. So for example, um, the, the, the, we have a central stock, um, methodology, a pole store where we don't stock cars, okay? It's centrally stocked.
• 21:07
  Um, but we do have some cars that are on the ground and those cars, and I think, uh, there's a lot of Ford stores out there that could experience the same thing. Customer orders a Lightning, Lightning falls through.
• 21:17
  Okay? It's supposed to be central stock online only, so now it's sitting on the ground. Okay? So then you start to build up some sort of ground stock, and because it's like an online negotiation free, um, process,
• 21:33
  cu- customers would go anywhere for a certain color or certain option. You know- Mm-hmm... EVs are built for leasing, and we do a lot of leasing.
• 21:40
  So having a trailer hitch on a car that's pre-installed at the port, that means that that trailer hitch could get residualized fully and it's a lot cheaper than installing it at the service department paying full price if you lease it.
• 21:51
  Right. So, like, you would see a customer that would s- go, you know, five states over because that car on the ground had the trailer hitch. Wow.
• 22:00
  So it really, it, Hometown Motors went away because these, and these consumers are so smart. Their inventory systems on Reddit were better than any manufacturer I've ever seen. [laughs] They knew- Unreal... they knew.
• 22:16
  And that's why, like, we need, we need these people to, like, incubate these ideas because these, these Reddit groups, right? They had all the inventory on the ground of every store when that's not publicized ever.
• 22:27
  They outlined all the doc fees for every, every, every space. So, like, they know the Florida dealers have a 995 doc fee, and the New York dealers have a 175 doc fee. I mean, these consumers are super smart. Wow.
• 22:40
  They know all these, uh- You're like, have them build the digital retailing tool online. Yeah. It's recruiting. It's like CIA, right? It's like recruiting.
• 22:46
  You're gonna find the people that are breaking your stuff the most, and then you're gonna hire 'em. [laughs] I, I, listen, I've always embraced them.
• 22:52
  I've had people that are on our team, and they wanna fight the, that, that, that lease hacker guru that knows rates and res- like, like, you know- Yeah... I always try to train, like, like embrace 'em. Great.
• 23:02
  Just kinda embolden him. [laughs] You did your homework. Right. [laughs] Let's make this quick and easy. But yeah, so I mean, and I'm learning every... I, I have so many learnings regarding this.
• 23:11
  Uh, one, one major learning, um, was really the difference between being brand dedicated EV and let's just say the typical Mercedes-Benz store, uh, especially when their EVs first came out.
• 23:26
  Like, I was hearing horror stories from customers saying nobody knew how charging worked, nobody knew the car. And, and I've said it, it's because, like, five-car Fred turned into the EV specialist and- Mm...
• 23:38
  you know, that, that was the person who was responsible for, for educating this consumer on EVs. Um, and it made that customer experience kind of, uh, not, not amazing.
• 23:49
  And in our store, you know, because we're all EV, you know, everyone knows EV, we're brand dedicated EV, um, it's not like, you know, a tug of war process.
• 24:00
  And, and, and I think to this day, you still see that in a Ford store, you'll see that in a Kia Hyundai store, you'll see that in a Mercedes-Benz store where, um, you know, they, they've got, you know, a small group of people that know and like to sell EVs because the masses are still, um, selling ICE cars.
• 24:18
  Mm-hmm. Real quick, okay, a- as we end, I've got one last question.Are you considering the mall/alternate retail shopping environment for other manufacturers that you currently have or wanna have in the future?
• 24:33
  Do you see a path for that, or is it unique to the Polestar EV brands? The mall is media. Okay? The mall is media. And, um- Come on. Put that on a shirt and print it Just when I thought I couldn't love you anymore.
• 24:49
  [laughs] It is. But the, the, the problem is this, right? The eyeballs that are at our space, they might necessarily be my customers, right?
• 25:04
  'Cause, 'cause, like, this is a mall right outside New York City.
• 25:08
  It's a, it's got a huge international population because people, before people fly back to Europe or Asia, they'll, they'll, they'll stay at the hotel there and do some tax-free shopping before they go home.
• 25:21
  Um, they might be, uh, on a layover. You might have people that are coming through the New York area and they're, this is a layover before they go to we- the West Coast. Mm-hmm.
• 25:30
  So it's media, but it's not my, like, my local media. So I, I think there definitely needs to be some, uh, I think there's value there. But I think it needs to be a, a, a co-opt among the entire network.
• 25:42
  Because to have one dealer be responsible for this geographic location, it's really spray and pray. You know? Mm-hmm. And, and there's some really...
• 25:51
  So I also, I learned some really interesting things, and there's a, some really interesting, um, tools out there that track, you know, where the people come from, where they go afterwards, that we don't really use in automotive retail.
• 26:05
  But all the, all the big box retailers use it. Yep. Um, so I mean, it's, it's long-winded. Like, it's, it's, it's fantastic, but it's really, it, it's not my local, um, it's not my local traffic.
• 26:18
  So I think we all need to share. Right. You're not putting Lincolns in there. No. I mean, I, I'm not. I mean, again, and maybe it's just geography.
• 26:26
  Like, if, if I was in another part of the country, um- Where the mall was the center point for the community, right? You'd reconsider. Exactly. It'd be a different, it'd be a different- Exactly... conversation.
• 26:33
  But where I'm, I'm, where I'm at, no. But yeah, I mean, right now, for a new brand that nobody really knows what it is- Yeah... I, I understand why they wanna be there.
• 26:44
  Um, if we weren't there, I probably wouldn't be the dealer. And, um, yeah, we'll see, we'll see what happens the next few years. Very cool. Very cool. Well, Matt, just a ton of insight. Super fun.
• 26:57
  You're gonna be at ASOTU CON, and, uh, obviously around, uh, around the ASOTU-verse on The Wheelhouse. If people haven't caught that podcast with Daniel Gover, uh, they gotta check it out.
• 27:07
  But thanks for sharing a little bit of time with us here on Auto Collabs. Anytime, guys. Thanks so much.
• 27:11
  [upbeat music] How about when Matthew says, "I don't consider my mall loca-" He's like, the mall location for him, he goes, "I consider that as media." As media. Oh. Interesting. That just made me fall over.
• 27:28
  [laughs] Man. Uh, th- you know, it's crazy actually, uh, the, uh, one of, one of my favorite things, I don't know if you know who Steve on LinkedIn is.
• 27:37
  And I just call him Steve on LinkedIn because he's always the- [laughs]... the antithesis to every conversation. I, I DM'd him- But- Oh, yes, Steve... and told him I would give him a free ticket to ASOTU CON.
• 27:47
  Just to show his real face? 'Cause I, you really, I, I- Yeah... I think he's somebody else. I don't know. But he, he- [laughs]... very respectfully declined. [laughs] Ah.
• 27:55
  So, uh, you know, his, like, one of his things that he always comes back to, he's like, "Well, do you put your building and your sign in your advertising dollars?
• 28:05
  'Cause it's the biggest advertising dollars you're possibly spending." [laughs] But, 'cause everybody puts it on the corner of a space, right? Yep.
• 28:12
  And it's like, oh, so you mean if I put a whole retail location in a mall where people are just passing by, and maybe- Oh... they can't do everything right there, and they can't test drive in it- Yeah...
• 28:20
  but it must be media because I'm driving traffic through it? Mm. Like, that's retail mindset right there. That is total retail mindset.
• 28:26
  Th- this is something, too, th- this is a, a call back/call forward to conversations that were happening six, seven, eight years ago, where many, uh, people in the industry were predicting smaller floor plans, smaller showrooms, maybe mall locations.
• 28:43
  And, and you're, so you're starting to see that. It's, it's kinda no surprise to me that you're starting to see that.
• 28:47
  I mean, when I was in New York recently, we, we stumbled upon this mall in a skyscraper in Hudson Yards. And sure enough, dealerships inside of there, and having this whole experiential- Yep... type thing.
• 29:01
  And so it, it just makes sense to me. And I love, I love Matthew's, uh, mindset around, uh, around how he's thinking about that. I love that Michael- Insert- Just, I love that Michael just brought that mall up.
• 29:12
  Kyle, the first time we ever, like, that was, like, our very first, like, let's conceptualize what we're gonna do together. Was that at a mall? Do you remember? We we- we went to that mall. Yep.
• 29:21
  I think we ate at Shake Shack. Absolutely. [laughs] Yeah, there's a Shake Shack in there. We did. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's the same mall. Yep. It's right, yeah, it's right next to the VanderMiere offices.
• 29:28
  That's exactly where we went. So, well, on- Pounding around on keys. On that note, our buddy Matt is right there. He's, I'm sure he's been there. But, um, we hope you had fun on this episode of Auto Collabs. We sure did.
• 29:37
  Make sure you follow Matt and everything he's doing, um, because he's been one of those sleepers in the industry that everyone's about to figure it out.
• 29:44
  Uh, so on behalf of Kyle Mountsier, Michael Cirillo, and myself, thanks for listening to Auto Collabs.
• 29:49
  [upbeat music] Sign up for our free and fun to read daily email for a free shot of relevant news in automotive, retail, media, and pop culture. You can get it now at asotu.com. That's A-S-O-T-U dot com.
• 30:02
  If you love this podcast, please leave us a review and share it with a friend. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time.
• 30:21
  Welcome to Auto Collabs. Welcome to Auto Collabs. [laughs] Kyle, are we recording yet? Are we rolling yet? Not yet.