Latest / Stream of Consciousness with Dan: Stories from the Midwest / Stream of Consciousness #67 - Kyle Knall

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Stream of Consciousness #67 - Kyle Knall · Stream of Consciousness with Dan: Stories from the Midwest

• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: All right, everyone, we are live with Stream of Consciousness with Dan.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: And today we've got a really special guest.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Chef Kyle Nall is here, a James Beard nominated chef who's become one of the defining voices in Milwaukee's food scene.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: From Birch to his work with Stonebank Farm and to everything he's building next, he's someone who brings a real sense of craft and care to everything he touches.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to dig into his story and his approach.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Kyle, how are you doing today?
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing great.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for thanks for having me on today.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's absolutely my pleasure.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh before we even dive into food, I kind of just want to talk about where you uh grew up, uh your hobbies, your interests, and just things that kind of grabbed your attention.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I actually grew up in Birmingham, Alabama.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so far far from here.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um but we'll there there's definitely similarities that we'll we'll get to.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: But uh so I grew up in Birmingham and started cooking when I was like 15 years old.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: My older brother um was a chef for like 26 years, and so I kind of got the hooked on cooking from him kind of right away when I was young.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I I knew before before chats about where I was gonna go to college or anything like that, I knew that I wanted uh to become a chef.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: So um I was lucky in in that uh with that to to figure that out early.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I spent like five years working in Birmingham um for my mentor Frank Stitt and ended up moving to New York City when I was 22.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um I actually followed my girlfriend, now wife at the time, um, who's from here, um, up to New York, and we were in New York for about 13 years.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I always like to ask this question to every chef that I've talked to uh was there a particular dish or memory or just smell that you remember where you really fell in love with food?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're definitely so like the food at Birch specifically, people talk about it being high in acid uh and really fresh and bright.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember a moment tasting the sauce that we would make at the first restaurant I worked in, and it was a pan sauce that we made for like a traditional veal picata.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it had white wine, shallot, capers, and butter, but it had a ton of lemon juice.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, when I tasted the dish as a whole the first time with all of this lemon juice in it, it really like I remember even like I remember when I was looking at in the kitchen of this restaurant that day, and I remembering I remember like that's that to me is insanely delicious, and I like food that tastes that bright.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then from then on, I think like lemon lemon juice specifically played a big role in how I cook, and uh but that that to me was the memory that I knew that I loved it so much.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's a that's a really neat story, and there really isn't much you can complain about with a little lemon juice capers and butter.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's about as good as it gets.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's white wine as well.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, so that's what you said.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: You uh did move to New York, but I I believe you attended culinary school in uh in Birmingham, right?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so was that always just I'm attending culinary school, no yeah, no second option.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I remember like I took a so I was working, I'd spent every day after school working at the restaurant where my brother was the chef, and I'd go there, I'd be there, I'd get there by 3:30 every day and set up the Garmouger station and work service and then go home at nine o'clock.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually took one college day, and it was to go to the culinary school, um, just to kind of do it.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Not not because I needed to say, okay, I definitely like it.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: I knew I was going there, but I was like, okay, I'll take a college day.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I went and toured this culinary school, and then I just went to work early that day um instead of going back to school.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: And um to me it was like no one and my sister went to college um around that time, but nobody had really gone to college in my family, and um I knew that um I definitely wanted to do something, and so I I I had my heart set on culinary school kind of right away.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think it was a great experience.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, chefs talk about culinary school um not being worth it and it being expensive.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: It is expensive for sure, um, and it took a long time for me to pay off, but I do think it gave me some like structure in life.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um specifically going to culinary school in the morning and then going to work at night kind of set me up, I think, for like this mental stability through my career that I that I can kind of live on now.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I want to dive a little deeper into that because as a non-chef myself, um, you know, we hear culinary school, but I I don't think many people really know what that actually uh looks like day to day.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: So could you kind of just describe what culinary school is like just to the average person?
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um, I mean, it started with fundamentals in cooking, you know, you learn how to make stock, you don't do knife cuts.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um and to me, it's like it was almost like starting in the kitchen.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, like you do these things over and over and you build repetition, and then you move on to your next semester and you learn about sauces and you make those, and then what you can build off those, and like it's really learning the history and the fundamentals, um, and getting a little repetition with those.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then you know, there's business parts where you learn about food cost, and um, you know, there's stuff about health department and stuff like that.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: So um it kind of gives you a little taste of every little part of what you would kind of learn in a restaurant.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that was a good explanation because, like I said, uh no idea what culinary school would look like.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: It does sound like fun though.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not it sounds like a lot of work, but it does sound like fun.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, I mean it it was, it was I enjoyed it, and I made some great friends, and you know, I think it's I think it's a I recommend uh if I could hire young individuals out of culinary school, I would do that over anyone else anytime.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Gotcha, okay.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I do want to also emphasize more on Frank Stitt because he's I mean kind of a beast.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: So just how cool was that to uh you know, kind of work with him and uh what what did you think he taught you and just what did that experience look like?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so like growing up in Birmingham, especially I think just growing up in Birmingham, you kind of know who Frank Sid is, and especially if you get into the culinary arts, you definitely know who he is.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but he plays such a big role in the city that, like I said, even if you aren't uh into cooking or even eating out, you know who he is because of um what he's done for the city.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of look, I always kind of talk about him sometime.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: He's almost like a political figure in the city, which um I hate politics and I hate I don't want to compare him to to that, but he hold he holds that weight for really the state itself.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so all that being said, like okay, I'm gonna be I want to be a chef, what am I gonna do?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go work for Frank, and that's why I stayed in Birmingham and went to school.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um but working for Frank I think gave me the foundation on how I who I wanted to be as a chef.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, obviously I learned how to cook delicious food working for him, but the foundation of how to buy ingredients, who to buy them from, uh how to cook in the season, but almost most importantly, how important the whole experience is in a restaurant.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: So how important a wine list is, how important hospitality is, how important discipline across the whole restaurant from front to back is.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um he cared so much, he cares so much about that.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think that really gave me like the backbone to well, I definitely felt that when I moved to New York to work at Grammar City Tavern, I felt like I had a strong core to move on and definitely be challenged there by all means.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a hundred percent uh different challenge, but it gave me like the strength and like the core to go on and do that.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's awesome that you got that experience so early in life, and that's actually a perfect segue into your leap to New York.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously, you're you know working with Frank and probably being very successful, and um, yeah, what kind of inspired that move to New York?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I so I I think as as we chat through this today, you'll there's some like moments that you'll notice that were uh based on like I wouldn't have stayed and worked for Frank probably for many years, um and loved it.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I followed my girlfriend at the time to New York, and so she my wife, Megan and I started dating, and uh soon after she said, I'm moving to New York.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: You can come if you would like.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I looked at it as like I loved her and I was like, sure, let's go.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm this it would be a good opportunity to move and do something else.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so like I I was lucky enough.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: I never really left a job that I didn't like where I wanted to go find something new.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: So like when I left working for Frank, I was extremely happy and I would have stayed, but I was going for like a new opportunity and and moving to the city.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: So um when we moved to the city, I started working at Gramercy the first week I was there, and like I had heard about Gramercy Tavern.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: I had never been there to eat.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Frank had recommended I interview with them, and um yeah, I I took a trail there, like an interview, and um a week later I started working there.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Man, that's so cool.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so what just again for the for the non-chef, how different is the New York food scene than you know, Birmingham, Alabama?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because I would imagine it's probably very different.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I you know, it's different and it's similar.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I don't think, especially nowadays, when people think of these big cities, they think it's a hundred percent like the restaurants are on a different level.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: And definitely there's some are by all means.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um but like Birmingham is very lucky to have really incredible restaurants that most cities don't have.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's because of the foundation that Frank kind of um put down there and everybody that had worked for him.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but restaurants definitely have like a step up and a step up in like uh energy and push.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: So like, you know, from the amount of people you're cooking for um to the energy and the focus that you have to have kind of 24-7.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's what's really different in working in a in a restaurant in New York City.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: And let me give me one second.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: It was that were you working with um was it Mike Anthony?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, Michael Anthony.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: So what was that like?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, he's another super chef.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: He uh it's funny, many people that know both of Mike, that know both Mike and Frank, I love talking with because um they are two of the most genuine and humble and talented chefs, I think, like in existence.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think what they have both done um for industry is just tremendous, but they actually cook with the same kind of thought and care.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Their food is different, but it's ingredient-driven.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um and like I said, it's cooked uh with with a lot of thought and focus.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so like moving to work for for Mike, it felt I wouldn't say comfortable.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: It felt like um, yeah, it felt like I understood it and it was the next step up, you know.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like um, it was a great transition.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: I always say like it sucked that I worked at Gray Mercy first in New York and not somewhere else, because like once you kind of work at Graymercy, um, it's kind of the best of the best.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's hard to like do something after that.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: So again, I said I was gonna throw you a curvebolt, but you've already looked at my outline, and I'm sure you're gonna knock this one right out of the park.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's really the foundation of cooking.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I need you to name the five mother sauces in French cuisine.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I t I I'm not gonna knock that out of the park.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um I've stumped I think two or three chefs on here on this, so don't feel bad.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm told I am I I didn't research it I because I wanted to leave it so that this was an honest reaction.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think if I had a if I had like a a thing of like uh a sheet with 12 sauces on it, I could pick them.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I actually have no idea.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean like sauce American no uh Espanol.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, that's one uh vegetable.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, that's the other.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mean it's holidays.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um The last two always get me because I don't think I've ever made those.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I I I know one I I know I would assume one has like a chicken sock and like a roux.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a it starts with a V.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: A bullet.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then the last one what does it start with?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um well it just starts with sauce, which doesn't really help, but it also has roux in it, and it's a it's a well technically a fruit, and it starts with a tea.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Sauce American.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, sauce tomate or tomate.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Sauce tomate?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, sauce tomate.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm I'm not familiar with that one at all, but uh made my day.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so but I always like to ask that because it's it's so funny because I asked one of these chefs and he like couldn't name one of them.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: I won't give I won't give his name out to marathon.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: But um, so no, I'm actually gonna even go a little bit more off script.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: I like to do kind of like a Mount Rushmore of like whatever, whoever I'm interviewing.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I just kind of want to do like the Mount Rushmore of chefs.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: So if you could just we can go back and forth just listing our you know, just our favorite chefs, if that sounds fun.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um so my four would be it's interesting.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: I've I've been asked this before, and I I immediately want to say Mike Anthony for your extent.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that like that kind of defeats the question a little bit.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um but if I was to like if I was a if I was 17 years old and wanted to be a chef, and I looked at this information on let's say 100 chefs, and I really studied it.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I I mean Frank Stit for sure, because Frank Stitt changed to me.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't just change, like he developed food in the South, you know, and um for me living in New York when people would talk about southern food, their perception was always fried chicken and and stuff like that.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I always like struggled with that because like Southern food's not about that at all.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: And and Frank really showed that that it wasn't.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I would say Frank, I would say Alice Waters because um I mean obviously her the time and place that she built Chapanese, um you know Thomas Keller for sure for like being an American chef, and Daniel Belud.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not familiar with that one.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Daniel Belud, he had restaurant in Yo, and uh I don't know, he probably has like four dozen restaurants across the city and like across in the world.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well I'll give you my four, and again, I'm not really in the culinary scene, so I get most of my info off of Food Network.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: But um I think my four is Jet Tila.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: I just think he's very creative.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I've just heard nothing but good things about him, and I love watching him cook.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um number three has absolutely got to be Bobby Flay.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he he's just not afraid to take on any challenge.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: He's just been so successful.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh again, just love watching him cook.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: And number two is a is a guy I actually interviewed two days ago.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: His name is Justin Warner.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: Are you familiar with him?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, he again just a super creative kind of when he's cooking.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then this is actually a really deep cut.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: So when I really first fell in love with food, my dad and I would always watch the show Iron Chef, the original Japanese Iron Chef.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I would just absolutely love watching Chen Kenichi cook.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: I thought he was hilarious and just so incredible.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I just thought that was gonna be fun because I know we'd have very different answers.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm kind of shocked.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: But uh I I I appreciate that, and I think they're I mean, they're all very I think they're all pretty awesome, yeah.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: But so yeah, so we're gonna move on from New York, and uh your credit card miles have got to be piling up.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: You've gone from Birmingham to New York, and now you're in Milwaukee.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: So what pulled you there?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we our son was born in New York right before COVID, and we thought it would be an opportunity to find a community we wanted to be a part of for our kids to to grow up in, but for us to have somewhere that we feel like felt like we could we could you know make an impact.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so we moved here in 2020 and um really kind of fell in love right away.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: My wife's from here originally, so that was our kind of connection.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, we I mean we we love everything about it for for sure.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, where'd she go to school?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: She grew up in Brookfield.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm I'm a uh Scottnie through and through.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um my parents live there now, so uh I'm definitely gonna tell them to check out your restaurant when they're in the Milwaukee area.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: They live in Broadhead.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, where's that?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's a it's kind of like by Monroe-ish area.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: But um so yeah, so I just thought that's that was really what drew me to you was how you got to Milwaukee.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: And were you nervous?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: Were you scared, or were you just I can do this, we've we've got this.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, Mike Anthony from Grand Merced always said, like, as a chef, you always have to be able to start from scratch, like no matter what.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can build a restaurant and it be about uh, you know, you could be there for 10 years and all of a sudden you have to leave and restart.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so to me, like Moving here was kind of the same thing.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was definitely a little nerve-wracking because we had a family of our son.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't just me, my wife, it was more about our family.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so it was a little nerve-wracking, but it was to me exciting and an opportunity that we were excited to be a part of.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you're and in Milwaukee and you start Birch.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: What was the inspiration behind it?
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: And what is Birch all about?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was it's it was the inspiration was it was a it was a restaurant that we actually purchased, and there was a wood-burning, it only has a wood-burning uh grill.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: There's no gas.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was pretty clear on what we obviously could do there.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so to us, it was it's about highlighting the best produce that the this amazing state has to offer.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and obviously that has ups and downs through the through the year, but um I think we've done a really incredible job kind of sticking with that, and um and so it's about like simple, delicious food that's um from the community and and it's bright and fresh and delicious.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, I can't wait next time I'm up there to stop by.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then you also do I think you're the culinary director at Stonebank Farm.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's a farm that I'm very uh tied close to that's about 30 minutes away.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um isn't it in Economwalk?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: We get uh a good amount of produce from there, we raise lambs there.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we do a bunch of different things with them, and we do uh like barn dinners there, dinners on the farm, and all all different kinds of things.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: And um to me, I actually started doing that before opening birch, and it was a great opportunity to kind of submerge myself into the agriculture in the state, and um yeah, so we do that, and then we just opened Cassis uh about three months ago, and good.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, I was just gonna say, yeah, I I I read that, so that's really neat.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I just wanted to touch a little bit more about the produce.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Is it just something about the land in Wisconsin?
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I've interviewed, you know, breweries and uh cheese factories, and I I truly believe we have some of the best produce in the country.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, for sure.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it it you know, I think it's like I think the ground it's obviously the land.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think it's the people who depest from the that the people have that grow um the produce.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think the seasons obviously like play a massive role in that.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's the rain that we get in April, it's the the cold weather, the cold ground that we have all year long, and it's all of those factors that that make it what it is.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: And this is like my my whole cooking career is built on the thought of the closer the amount of time that are things come out of ground, the the better they taste.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um and we had this moment yesterday, and I know this is true, but it was just still shocking.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like ramps come in the season, um, you know, the first thing in spring, and people, chefs freak out about the the wild onions that can only be found for like a month.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we as a as a kitchen team, we always go out and forage them ourselves, and we get it, we find we find enough that kind of support the restaurant for a few weeks.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we bought some this week from from uh a reputable purveyor, and they were probably from you know somewhere uh a few hours, if not a little farther away, but uh you know they were probably harvested a week ago, and the flavor difference between that and what we get ourselves is is just like mind-blowing.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, that kind of represents uh the idea of like making sure we're we're using everything from people that we know close by.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: The difference in the flavor is is mind-blowing, and it'll you you can't make simple delicious food without um without doing that.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's definitely a step that's mandatory in making food, I think, delicious.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: For for sure.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: So before we get into Cassis, I feel like the Milwaukee food scene is is really kind of catching fire.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh maybe it's always been good.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: I just I just remember downtown Milwaukee as a kid.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh my dad like wouldn't even let me go down there.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was kind of sketchy.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: And now I just feel like Milwaukee is is really exploding.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: So can you just talk about what kind of the Milwaukee food scene looks like?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I think it's really special.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, you know, they're being new here.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't obviously know really the history, but the Barladas played a big role.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I think Sandy D'Amato that opened Sanford's, um, which still is in existence and is owned by uh Sandy's protege, who is an amazing guy, Justin.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I I there's always this core that's been amazing in the city that has a great history.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um but now there is this like there's this new wave of restaurants.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: We've had two omakasi counters open in the past year.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I haven't actually been to either, but to me they look they look legit, and I'm super excited to try them.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's things like that that um is making the scene here super special.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: There, you know, but then there's a restaurant called Three Brothers, it's a uh restaurant that's in an old Paps tavern that the inside hasn't changed since it was a tavern, but they're serving some of the most delicious like food that uh their grandmothers made, and so it's this like kind of diverse the diversity that we have here is is what really makes it special.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I interviewed uh Gregory Leone.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: Are you familiar with him?
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, yeah.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: So he kind of echoed that that same sentiment.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so let's talk about Cassis.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um obviously you're having success at Birch, and you know that's enough work for one or two people who or whoever.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of drew you to starting that and what's the difference between Cassis and Birch if there is one?
• 29:00
  unknown: Sure.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Cassis is a like a large French fraserie.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we serve food like steak frites, steak tartare, um raw seafood.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: But it all started, it was this building in the third ward was being developed, kind of in the in the center of the third ward.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I was driving by one day and I called my wife and said, Hey, look, this building's being built.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: This would be an amazing opportunity for the city to have a large French browsery.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: For us, a browsery is about a place you can go anytime of the day and obviously have delicious food, but kind of be in a scene and be in a party.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it obviously like not everything works out.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's important to kind of look at opportunities when they come your way, and it worked out.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so it's a it's a big browsery that's open for lunch and dinner seven days a week.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and for us, it's a place that if you land in Milwaukee at the airport, if you've been traveling, if you're coming here to travel, you can, I think, always be able to come to Cassis no matter what time of day and and have a bite to eat and have a drink.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that was that was the inspiration behind it.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it's been a it's been a blast building it, and it's been it's been a it's been a great thing so far.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's super cool.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to uh share all of those uh websites and these episode descriptions because I want everyone to taste your food, and I want you to toot your own horn for a second and talk about what it meant being nominated for a James Beard award.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I think at the one uh probably the best moment in my uh career, um, you know, living in New York, we got I got reviewed by the New York Times twice, um, which was an amazing thing.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: We never got nominated for beard awards or anything, but working for Frank Stent and working at Grammar City Tavern, the Beard Awards have always meant so much.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, it was always something that after I left working for them, I felt like I was on the outside looking in.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I after having our first child, our son, um, and moving here, I kind of quit thinking about all that stuff, um, which was like really refreshing.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like I didn't pay attention to any of it.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: And one morning I was playing with our son, he was, I think, two at a time.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: Someone, a local writer, texted me and said, Congratulations.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, For what?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, for your beer nomination.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: And my uh my wife was at Target and I looked it up, and it was for my most outstanding chef in the country.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that was our second year that we opened Birch.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, it was the most proud moment for me because I realized that I had realigned my values a little bit, and it was our my life is about our family and our kids, and that's what makes me happy.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: And the restaurants do as well, no doubt.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it felt good to for it to happen that way instead of like chasing it and following it and all this stuff.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: It was just amazing to like as I'm playing with my son, not focused on it, this happens.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, that was the coolest moment.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: No, that is so freaking cool.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, your wife was at Target when it happened, because the wives are always at target.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm sorry, but um, so yeah, so before we sign off, I I just wanted to ask you, just for fun, you know, obviously you've lived in Alabama, you've lived in New York, you're now Milwaukee.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm just kind of cons uh curious, sorry, what do you consider yourself, you know, an Alabama, a New Yorker, or a Wisconsinite?
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think or on three.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I I think, and you know, we also opened a restaurant in New Orleans uh that we ran for three years, and and I'm bringing that up because uh when I worked for Mike Anthony, his goal was to create American food.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so when people ask me what kind of food my restaurant in New York was, the restaurant in New Orleans, what birch is, to me it's all it's all like American food.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, that means it's uh food that is you know being produced by the things that are grown in the community around you.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, I don't know, I think when you ask that question, to me, it's like I'm not an east coaster.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: I obviously grew up in the south.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but now I like you know, I we call Milwaukee home, and it's where our family's gonna grow up, and so um I'm a massive Bucks fan.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: And uh not a great not a great year for us though.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well it's starting to look up.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I I mean I I I call Milwaukee home, and so like I love the Midwest, and it's where I want to, you know, obviously uh be a part of, and so that I guess that's my my long answer made short.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm uh I'm a I'm a Wisconsinite now.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: That makes me so happy.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: So uh because I only lived there for about five years and then we've relocated to Kansas, but I'll always consider myself uh a Wisconsinite through and through.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's just there's something special about the state.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, for sure.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: But uh chef Kyle, seriously, thank you so much for taking the time to sit down and share your story today.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you've had a hell of a journey and uh you've done some incredible work.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: So for everyone listening, go check out Kyle's restaurant.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'll post every descrip or every website of his restaurants in the episode description.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and just in general, support the Milwaukee food scene.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much talent in that city, and Kyle, you're right at the heart of it.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: So again, thanks so much for being here today, Kyle.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks for having me.