Latest / CRYPTO 101 / Ep. 668 Navigating Crypto Market Volatility with Trading Strategies from IG North America (Tasty Trade)

Transcript

Ep. 668 Navigating Crypto Market Volatility with Trading Strategies from IG North America (Tasty Trade) · CRYPTO 101

0:08
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, everybody.
0:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to another episode of the crypto one-on-one podcast.
0:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm your co-host, Bryce.
0:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Join as always by my good buddy Brendan.
0:17
[SPEAKER_01]: How you doing, brother?
0:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing good.
0:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Doing good.
0:20
[SPEAKER_00]: We got a familiar face over here for everyone that likes to tune into our summits that we do a couple of times a year.
0:26
[SPEAKER_00]: You're probably familiar with JJ Kenahan.
0:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually got the interview in last time he's been around in the markets for thirty plus years now.
0:35
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to recognize some of his work, but I mean, Bryce, this is this is a really exciting one for me because I remember talking to him last time and immediately afterwards, I guess JJ, you don't know this.
0:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I shot Bryce and Tivo a message.
0:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, we got to get him on the pod because he got back.
0:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Didn't get a chance to listen to him.
0:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody needs to.
0:54
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't want to glaze it too much, but this seriously was one of my favorite summits that we did in recent years.
1:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you.
1:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks, guys.
1:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I hope I can live up to the expectation.
1:05
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I think what you're really introducing me is saying he's old, so he's seen a lot.
1:10
[SPEAKER_01]: He's in a lot of price action, just a market veteran who's like he's, you know, ran market making entities.
1:17
[SPEAKER_01]: You're currently the CEO of IG North America, which is the parent company of tasty trade and tasty live.
1:24
[SPEAKER_01]: But we want to kind of, you know, just catch you up with our audience and get our audience acquainted with you, like Brennan said, you know, you gave a great introduction at one of our live summits that we did a few months back, but we'd love to kind of get acquainted again.
1:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So JJ tells a little bit about who you are and
1:40
[SPEAKER_01]: what you're building.
1:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Certainly.
1:42
[SPEAKER_02]: So I started my career as I believe you referenced as a market maker at the CBOE in the we'll just call it mid-eighties and traded at the time in the OE axis is the S&P-one hundred, which was the busiest pit in the world at one time was six hundred people jumping up and down yelling and screaming for a living.
2:01
[SPEAKER_02]: It was really a fantastic place to be as a young person.
2:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, you know, that pit change ended up in the SPX.
2:10
[SPEAKER_02]: and pitch trading in general change.
2:12
[SPEAKER_02]: So when Tom Saznovs got shared and started to think of Schlimp, I went and worked with those guys.
2:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, upselling, think of Schlimp, TD Ameritrade.
2:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I stayed at TD Ameritrade for sixteen years and did just about everything you could do in the trading business from running the think of Schlimp platform to doing government relations.
2:32
[SPEAKER_02]: to managing an advisory service, so it was really an amazing, amazing run for me.
2:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And we had just had great team of people over there.
2:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Tom and Scott, meantime, started tasty trade.
2:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And so in twenty-twenty-two, they asked me to come board and be CEO after they had sold it to IG, be CEO of the North American side of the company, which is, you said, Bryce, tasty trading, tasty FX, tasty crypto, tasty live.
3:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, and it's been a crazy ride since we last talked to.
3:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, a lot has happened.
3:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this year went a lot different than a lot of people expected.
3:13
[SPEAKER_00]: At least a lot different than I expected.
3:16
[SPEAKER_00]: We started off with what felt like three gut punches with all of these different Blacks on events.
3:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember the not the open AI.
3:25
[SPEAKER_00]: It was the deep seek.
3:27
[SPEAKER_00]: One was like the initial one and then we had tariffs.
3:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Then we had all these other things.
3:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we plummeted down and everyone thought the world was ending.
3:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Now everything's hitting you all time highs, whether you're looking at Bitcoin or the indices, everything's hitting you all time highs and recovered.
3:42
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's been this wild ride since we last got to talk.
3:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And me and you both, we like to live in this world of trading and investing in all this.
3:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess what has changed for you since we last chatted?
3:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think to your point, last time we chatted was sort of right around the time, you know, that the president
4:08
[SPEAKER_02]: unveil the tariffs and so there was a lot of I don't like used the word panic but there was a lot of consternation shall we say in the market as you said selling off and now you know as you just said we're near all-time highs it really is amazing and I think that some rules of investing and you know Brendan you and I talked about this when I was on with you some rules of investing though across no matter what the product I don't care if you're somebody who's
4:34
[SPEAKER_02]: trading, you know, a doge digital asset or somebody who's trading Apple stock.
4:41
[SPEAKER_02]: It's all about not being all in or all off.
4:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you were the type of person who had too big an investment when we sold off, you probably hit the panic button, got out and now you're sitting here kicking yourself saying one of two things.
4:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to hit it and I'm not really going to do it again or they screwed me.
5:02
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a part of manipulation.
5:05
[SPEAKER_02]: No, you achieve something great.
5:06
[SPEAKER_02]: You screwed yourself.
5:07
[SPEAKER_02]: But anyway, it really, it goes to show I think to some of the basic rules of always being probably a smaller investor slash trader than you think you need to be.
5:18
[SPEAKER_02]: And also that way.
5:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Downward movements, if you're to long, you can bite more things if you want to with a better price rather than saying, oh my God, I have to panic.
5:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, you guys have done this quite a while now, you know, you're young guys.
5:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I know that at some point you learn that lesson and we all know that's a painful, painful lesson.
5:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, oh my gosh, it really is.
5:42
[SPEAKER_01]: It's where you learn everything in markets though, is from getting those wounds, you know, and from kind of letting those wounds scar over and heal.
5:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And like you said, we're young, but crypto trades, you know, eight times as fast or eight times as much, you know, trading minutes in the year, then there is a normal stocks because it's twenty four seven three sixty five, whereas I think stocks are like two hundred and fifty two days out of the year, whatever.
6:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it is interesting just, you know, crypto's really, I've already got some grades.
6:14
[SPEAKER_01]: My wife's pointing out a couple of grades in my hair.
6:15
[SPEAKER_01]: She has a man.
6:16
[SPEAKER_01]: This crypto stuff is really taking an idea, man.
6:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go on.
6:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, hey, the only other thing I'll add, Bryce, and again, you know, I think people tend to sometimes get discouraged when they're investing in anything and that's part of the natural cycle.
6:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, one of the things having done this for a long time, you will make the same mistakes occasionally.
6:38
[SPEAKER_02]: But you want to get them down to occasional rather than often and keep in mind, no product owes you anything.
6:45
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't owe that you should make money from it.
6:48
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just think some of those things, you know, we all fall into this.
6:52
[SPEAKER_02]: You guys do an incredible job on this podcast.
6:55
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know that there's people who join all the time.
6:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And part of the natural cycle of investing is trying.
7:01
[SPEAKER_02]: They say don't have a motion.
7:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's kind of crap.
7:04
[SPEAKER_02]: It's money.
7:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Everybody has a motion when it comes to money.
7:07
[SPEAKER_02]: But the best way to do it is to keep yourself so that you, you, you, you, you lay out worst case scenario upfront and be used.
7:14
[SPEAKER_02]: They kind of small.
7:15
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you don't have those gray hairs like Bryce.
7:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Look at me almost looks twenty-five.
7:21
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, unfortunately, Bryce, I'm younger than you, and I'm in the same photo.
7:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that a barber a couple of weeks ago, and they were talking to me about, I was like, all right, you know, I'm not talking to you.
7:32
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, the the volatility certain certainly works in both ways, right?
7:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Good and bad.
7:39
[SPEAKER_00]: But looking back on this JJ,
7:42
[SPEAKER_00]: What is like the proper way that people could have handled this situation?
7:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Because as much as we hate to say it, there's going to be more events like this in the future.
7:49
[SPEAKER_00]: There's going to be more just unforeseen catalysts.
7:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And crypto, like Bryce said, and moves it in multiples of what a lot of people are used to.
7:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that can be really scary because in the track by markets, you saw the markets move up and down, twenty, thirty percent.
8:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And crypto, you saw the markets move down, like sixty to eighty percent.
8:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And for a lot of people, you know, they were going into this thinking, oh, it's going to be a positive year for regulation and this and that.
8:13
[SPEAKER_00]: They got caught off guard and it hurt and it was scary and then they went down.
8:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people probably sold it went back up.
8:20
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, should I follow back in?
8:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Looking at situations like this one for future reference, like what is the proper way to handle those?
8:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Because like you said, like emotions do get involved as much as you can try to suppress them.
8:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you mentioned position sizing, right?
8:36
[SPEAKER_01]: That was the main one that I kind of took away from everything you've been talking about.
8:40
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah.
8:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely, but it's him.
8:43
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that we'll say that you're somebody, and again, I know you have a lot of newer people who are really trying to learn.
8:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, I really appreciate how much you guys are helping people understand.
8:55
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a difficult.
8:55
[SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, it's not only younger people.
8:57
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of what people might be trying to figure this out, too, because it's a different way of investing, which is great.
9:03
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think the biggest rule.
9:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry.
9:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I was just going to say, like, I wanted to emphasize that point because there are a lot of folks that are like my dad's age, right?
9:12
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you know, you know, he's trying to really start to rock this stuff.
9:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're the people with all the money.
9:18
[SPEAKER_01]: like people that are our age or that are you know in college or just graduate we got no money so it doesn't matter you know we're gonna get on board whether we want to or not because it's gonna be the application of the future the people with all the money um... the age uh... i guess that called the baby boomers right they've got you know all the wealth and stuff like now they're realizing you know we can't buy bonds anymore
9:38
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, stocks are, you know, we could buy stocks here and there through ETFs and the market, but crypto's the exciting stuff.
9:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Cryptos with the volatility isn't people are really starting to get in, and a lot of our subscribers are, you know, forty, fifty, sixty plus that are really trying to figure out, all right, this is a new, a new thing to invest in, but I just wanted to emphasize that point because people feel like they're alone, they don't get it, they're just getting used to the internet and so on and so forth, but
10:02
[SPEAKER_02]: You're totally wrong.
10:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I love that you're talking about that phrase and I always find it exciting when I do talk to people my age who may not be in the markets, et cetera.
10:11
[SPEAKER_02]: And one of their first questions was always, so what is this Bitcoin?
10:14
[SPEAKER_02]: How does it work?
10:15
[SPEAKER_02]: And so being able to have something like yours, what do you guys do and say here?
10:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Here, go get educated and to your point.
10:23
[SPEAKER_02]: These are people who are willing to try things and do have some money where if it goes against them, it can be like, okay, I learned something from it.
10:31
[SPEAKER_02]: lot, you know, back to where I was starting on, and what should you do position sizing?
10:37
[SPEAKER_02]: One of the things I like to do in the way I advise like my own children, et cetera, is we'll save, you had three thousand dollars to invest, and that's what you were going to put into one of the crypto assets.
10:46
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll save Bitcoin because it's the most wide retraining.
10:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And say, okay, Bitcoin trading around, again, you solve ease of math.
10:55
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll call it a hundred thousand, even though we know it's higher.
10:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And you say, OK, I want to have an average price of buying Bitcoin at ninety thousand dollars.
11:04
[SPEAKER_02]: So I would probably break up that three thousand dollars in the five six hundred dollar increments.
11:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Say I'm going to buy some of the hundred.
11:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to buy some at ninety five.
11:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to buy some at ninety eighty five eight.
11:16
[SPEAKER_02]: If it continues to go down, it's not terrible.
11:19
[SPEAKER_02]: It's opportunity.
11:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't think people think that way.
11:22
[SPEAKER_02]: What they what they'll send me.
11:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, what if I buy it at a hundred and go straight up?
11:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And as I always say to them, so that your biggest problem in investing so far is that when you buy things, they go up to quickly,
11:36
[SPEAKER_02]: So again, one of the things I think you really have to get comfortable with, and it's a complete different mindset, but this is how professional it's trade every day.
11:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Movements your friend.
11:46
[SPEAKER_02]: The only way movements your friend is if you have money to do something when things go against you, starting out with an average price in your head that's a lower than when we're trading now, really will help your investing entrepreneur.
11:57
[SPEAKER_01]: That's totally right.
11:58
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the things that Brandon and I preach a lot to some of our folks that are, you know, in some deeper level of subscription services to our technical analysis research is the anchored volume weighted average price.
12:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And so using this anchored volume weighted average price is a great way to have not just some arbitrary number in your head of like, hey, I want to get this arbit because I'd like to buy Bitcoin at fifty thousand dollars, but
12:20
[SPEAKER_01]: that might not be realistic and so this sort of calculation that you could run and anchor it to certain pivot points like you know election night which really move the market or you know inauguration day or that you know liberation that you anchor it to these sort of
12:36
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... key pivot points to the market you can kind of see the average price at the market participants paid since this moment in time and you could say okay well that should be a support or that should be a resistance and then if it comes down and kind of holds up a support we're gonna we're gonna buy there or that resistance kind of holds up as resistance maybe we're gonna short there and uh... there's a lot of interesting things that come with that and i i like it a little better than just your
12:59
[SPEAKER_01]: static, you know, simple moving averages, you know, just because this is the average price the last twenty days.
13:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that twenty days is arbitrary.
13:05
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, TA a lot of it is self-fulfilling.
13:08
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people use TA so that's why it works and so on and so forth.
13:12
[SPEAKER_01]: But, I wanted to kind of, you know, in the same vein of that discussion, you know, you've obviously, you know, spent twenty one years as a market maker, you know, you've done, you know, thirty years in the markets.
13:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Is there any?
13:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't want to say silver bullet.
13:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't call the, you know, AVWOP a silver bullet.
13:29
[SPEAKER_01]: But are there any strategies or time tested sort of tactics?
13:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe because we've talked about risk management, but like any tactics or indicators that you might use open interest tracking, you know, COT, anything like that.
13:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I like what you're doing with open interest because to me, I've always wanted to be the smallest fish in the biggest pond.
13:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I never want to go trade something that nobody else is trading because the people who are there than are all professionals.
13:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to trade with the other retail traders, not that I know more than anybody and anybody who thinks that's it.
14:00
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just
14:01
[SPEAKER_02]: If there's more people there, there's more markets being made, and you have last, you know, we can call it slippage, you can call it, but I want between bit and ask.
14:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll use it an equity example just for these spiders.
14:14
[SPEAKER_02]: If you go and trade that ETF, they're penny-wide all they want.
14:17
[SPEAKER_02]: You're not giving up much in and out.
14:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, some of the cryptos that are less traded, you might see, you know, markets that are
14:28
[SPEAKER_02]: five, six dollars wide.
14:30
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not talking necessarily about Bitcoin, which is, you know, a hundred thousand dollar product, where you would expect to see a larger.
14:35
[SPEAKER_02]: But you will see some of these are three dollars.
14:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And they still have dollar wide markets.
14:41
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not good for you as a consumer, so to speak.
14:46
[SPEAKER_02]: You want much harder, hard to possible.
14:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And Bryce, if I go back to what you just brought up on the V-Web, I do love that.
14:53
[SPEAKER_02]: But one thing I would say to people and I'm sure you guys experience it.
14:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I'd love to get your take on that as how many people to you have have wrote into you guys or you know I emailed you whatever it may be and say hey you were right but I just didn't do it this time.
15:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I wasn't disappointed because that's actually the key.
15:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
15:13
[SPEAKER_01]: No, we've seen that.
15:13
[SPEAKER_01]: We've seen that.
15:14
[SPEAKER_01]: We've heard that in our forums, all that kind of stuff.
15:18
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, because we caution people like, hey, crypto trading is risky.
15:21
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, you know, a lot of, you know, all this is probabilistic.
15:24
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to use your stop losses and all that kind of stuff.
15:27
[SPEAKER_01]: But sometimes people, you know, they're just falling along and in their mind, they're like, oh, yeah, like that makes sense.
15:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll go and do that.
15:33
[SPEAKER_01]: But then they never do and then they missed out.
15:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, we see that I think a lot of it is that self-discipline.
15:38
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the most important things as a trader or as an investor.
15:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Brennan, I mean, you're in these markets every day.
15:46
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think on this?
15:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, it's fascinating.
15:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And I like a point that we said earlier that there's people from all ages.
15:55
[SPEAKER_00]: We see a lot of, I don't want to say like an older crowd over here, but definitely like a more mature crowd.
16:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd say the majority of, at least the inside of our audience tends to be people who probably aren't like, eighteen, twenty, maybe early thirties.
16:13
[SPEAKER_00]: But there are a lot of mouth there.
16:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what you see a lot of, especially on social media these days.
16:18
[SPEAKER_00]: The cool thing is that we have seen the technology behind trading just evolve at such a rapid rate, and we talked about this, and you've preached about this a lot, but you say that technology has leveled the playing field here, or it is leveling the playing field.
16:37
[SPEAKER_00]: What specific tools or platforms have been game changers for retail traders and your rise over the last couple of years?
16:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'm going to be a little biased there, because obviously I started with thinker swim.
16:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, I was going to stay straight.
16:52
[SPEAKER_02]: But what here's where I will say, if you really want to see the influence of and you guys both touched on this a little bit.
17:00
[SPEAKER_02]: If you want to see the influence that crypto has actually taken into the more general market, think about the fact of twenty four hour equity trading now.
17:11
[SPEAKER_02]: That is a eye product of, I think, price you quoted the hours that everything is trading earlier.
17:17
[SPEAKER_02]: That is a one hundred percent byproduct of the fact that people realize that there's no reason we should be shutting down.
17:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, I've been of the opinion that within five years will be trading on weekends on the equity side.
17:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I just think it's a natural, we've seen that we can do it in crypto.
17:37
[SPEAKER_02]: There's no reason you won't be able to do it in equities.
17:39
[SPEAKER_02]: People may not love it.
17:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And the bigger problem, the reason you can get things done quicker on the crypto side is people have this question for me a lot.
17:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Why can they move so fast in the crypto world?
17:51
[SPEAKER_02]: It takes the equity world, so long to get it done.
17:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Two primary reasons.
17:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Number one, the equity marketless face is steep and regulation.
17:59
[SPEAKER_02]: from where it came.
18:00
[SPEAKER_02]: That that I'm saying crypto doesn't have regulation around that it does and I think the nice thing is people are becoming way more comfortable with that fact.
18:08
[SPEAKER_02]: But number two, I don't know of a crypto company and I'm sure there's some money edge that I'm just not familiar with.
18:16
[SPEAKER_02]: That their technology is not fairly new and really being kept up at a quick pace.
18:23
[SPEAKER_02]: You go back to some of these old brokerage firms.
18:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And they've been around the long time.
18:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Their technology is, you know, steeped in the seventies.
18:33
[SPEAKER_02]: So because of that, it just takes a long time for them to get things done.
18:37
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's the only thing in my opinion that will actually keep us from going to weekend markets is the fact that some of these older firms with older technology also have great influence.
18:49
[SPEAKER_02]: and it takes longer to get anything done on that side of the business.
18:54
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure you guys get this question actually probably a fair amount also, but it is one thing I think people have to be very conscious of.
19:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and Brendan maybe you could lead us in a discussion about tokenization.
19:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I just wanted to bring up one point because I feel like there was this moment where it must have clicked for, I think Larry think primarily right CEO, founder, black rock, something clicked.
19:17
[SPEAKER_01]: two years ago or three years ago, when he realized, I just wish I would be able to talk to him one day, what was that moment where you realized, oh my gosh, my entire business of asset management of which I'm the largest is about to become tokenized.
19:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And now, you know, he's spinning up all these different tokenization funds, the Bitcoin ETF makes more money for him.
19:37
[SPEAKER_01]: than his SMP ETF, which I thought was pretty crazy, or whatever they call it, their large cap, sort of index.
19:46
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's got higher management fees and all that kind of stuff, and it manages much smaller amount of money, but he could see the sort of pathway forward, which is gonna be tokenization in real world assets.
19:57
[SPEAKER_01]: In twenty four seven trading, and he probably was like, oh my gosh, I got to get on board and lead this charge rather than resist it.
20:05
[SPEAKER_01]: but I don't know, I just kind of saw the lights go on with him like, I don't know a couple of years ago, and then he went full, full head of steam towards RWA's and stuff.
20:14
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think Bryce to your point that switch, you know, as you said, with him, perhaps Jamie Diamond, what has really done for, you know, if you really tie a lot of the things you guys have talked about, talking about older clients, talking about those guys coming in.
20:31
[SPEAKER_02]: You needed that sort of stamp of approval in my opinion, but this could say, okay, this isn't the scam.
20:39
[SPEAKER_02]: This is real.
20:40
[SPEAKER_02]: These are regulated markets.
20:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that that has one hundred percent helped the growth over the last couple of years.
20:49
[SPEAKER_02]: As you do have older people, as you guys, as you said, who have money, who are coming in either experimenting or have experimented on our expanding their trading because they have more money to do so.
21:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And that has probably been from the retail side, the greatest reason we've seen so much growth and so many coins, you know, the variety of coins expanding, which I do believe we'll get to a
21:16
[SPEAKER_02]: And area, it'll probably take a little bit longer.
21:18
[SPEAKER_02]: You'll have coins just like you have stocks.
21:21
[SPEAKER_02]: They'll just continue to grow.
21:22
[SPEAKER_02]: They'll be a hundred of them that have really nice liquidity.
21:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Right now, I don't think I'd be comfortable saying that they're probably more than you guys know better than I. I don't know where I would say that there were more than about fifteen that had really good liquidity at the moment.
21:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
21:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, it's probably why we haven't seen super small cap ETFs yet, Bryce, is because they know, like, had it probably a little bit more maturity and stuff.
21:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that they will come with time and it looks like they're all in the way, but for the moment, you know, even a lot of the crypto ETFs, even the ones that are still being applied for and aren't even approved.
21:57
[SPEAKER_00]: For the most part, they're the large cap ETFs.
22:00
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, things that have tens of billions, hundreds of billions are trillion in market cap, like Bitcoin, Ethereum, you see Solana, XRP, like all the big ones because they know that's where there is the most liquidity and volume and probably attention as well.
22:16
[SPEAKER_00]: But going back to what we were saying just about tokenization, it has been fascinating to see BlackRock get on board and launch a fun.
22:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe Van Eck got on board and launched a fun.
22:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And most recently, the most interesting
22:32
[SPEAKER_00]: use of it has been from Robin Hood.
22:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So it will have been about a month ago from the time that people are watching this.
22:40
[SPEAKER_00]: But Robin Hood came out and they said, we are going to be creating a layer two and we're going to be tokenizing the stock market and both the publicly traded market.
22:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're also going to be looking at even trying to tokenize privately traded companies.
22:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And open a, I did not like that.
22:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I told her tweets.
22:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I just saw a statement from them.
23:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I believe yesterday, they are less than happy to your hand.
23:04
[SPEAKER_00]: They are.
23:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And they were basically saying that it's not actual equity and stuff.
23:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And
23:10
[SPEAKER_00]: which is very important to understand.
23:12
[SPEAKER_00]: We were actually talking about this internally because you know Aaron used to be here on the podcast he was talking to us about this and it's definitely important to understand and I think that there's going to be a lot of of kinks that get solved in this process but it's very early on and the reason that I bring this up
23:29
[SPEAKER_00]: is because Robin Hood is the first major player to say, we are going to be tokenizing pretty much the entire stock market.
23:36
[SPEAKER_00]: And what does this do?
23:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, this gives people all over the world.
23:40
[SPEAKER_00]: They always say, hey, Europe is going to be able to have like just a new era of access to US equities.
23:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're also going to be able to trade these with the goal of twenty four seven.
23:52
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to start, I think, twenty four five.
23:54
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to try to move to twenty four seven after everything gets figured out.
23:58
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's
23:59
[SPEAKER_00]: fascinating.
24:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And so my question for you is like, how do you view all of this?
24:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you've been in the markets for thirty years.
24:06
[SPEAKER_00]: You've done a lot of work.
24:07
[SPEAKER_00]: What does this all mean to you?
24:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Is this a good or a bad thing?
24:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I've just seen a lot of mixed reviews.
24:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's really exciting to your point.
24:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's going to take us longer to get there.
24:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Actually, then we thought I saw something today that you, one of the regulatory bodies, had some questions about it again.
24:27
[SPEAKER_02]: So these types of things, I think Brendan always take a little bit longer than you think they're going to.
24:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And it, you know, Robinhood leading a good for them, but it means that it's going to be very expensive to do because it means a lot of your legal teams are going to be involved for a long time.
24:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm doing this kind of stuff.
24:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, if you think about the technology, you think about where we're going, it does seem inevitable.
24:50
[SPEAKER_02]: However, you bought up a really, really important point about what is the actual value of it?
24:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
24:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's going to be the part that's the most difficult to get over perhaps with the regulators and with the understanding of the general public.
25:07
[SPEAKER_02]: So don't get me wrong.
25:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm all for this.
25:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it totally makes sense.
25:12
[SPEAKER_02]: But there's going to have to be a level of education that's done here that's much beyond regular stocks.
25:20
[SPEAKER_02]: It's almost think about it.
25:22
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a derivative.
25:22
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's like an option.
25:24
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to do a lot of
25:26
[SPEAKER_02]: education when people start trading option.
25:28
[SPEAKER_02]: So anything that's a derivative product of the equity itself takes a lot of understanding so that people can actually understand the risk that they're taking, but it completely makes sense.
25:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, it's just amazing how fast over the last year and part of it, you guys brought up earlier, new administration, et cetera, how fast all this stuff is moving.
25:52
[SPEAKER_02]: But again, the regulators,
25:55
[SPEAKER_02]: over the last forty eight hours or seventy two hours seem to have really spend like whole hold on what's going on much of it to your point could be around the comments from open AI but I think the next couple of weeks this is going to be a really interesting summer it's not the go fishing and forget about it this is going to be a really really interesting summer
26:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you know, I think to that point, I think regardless of what OpenAI and even like bigger companies are institutional might think, I might have a hot take here, but I don't think that the average retail trader cares.
26:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's very important for them to understand, right?
26:36
[SPEAKER_00]: They need to understand that this is not equity that they don't get voting power, like they don't get any of the shareholder stuff that would come with owning the actual stock.
26:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think understanding that is essential because people need to be educated and they need to know what they're getting into.
26:53
[SPEAKER_00]: The same like they would with any other kind of contract or leverage or spot or whatever it may be.
26:59
[SPEAKER_00]: However, I don't think.
27:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've seen that's the biggest drawbacks people are going to say, oh, it's not equity.
27:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think most of retail cares if it's equity or not.
27:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's my hot take because when you look at a lot, especially retail, especially younger traders, they just want exposure.
27:16
[SPEAKER_00]: They just want to make money.
27:18
[SPEAKER_00]: They want to get in.
27:18
[SPEAKER_00]: They want to make their bag.
27:19
[SPEAKER_00]: They want to get out.
27:20
[SPEAKER_00]: If they can get in and, you know, long a synthetic or a tokenized version of a stock, make money off of it because they weren't able to in the past, I think they're happy.
27:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And the same sense that I think that if they can jump in and get access to open AI, you know, five years from now, three years from now, all of a sudden, they are just doing wonders.
27:39
[SPEAKER_00]: They're the just go-to company of the world because of what AI has grown into.
27:44
[SPEAKER_00]: If people can get exposure to that, I think that that's what they
27:49
[SPEAKER_00]: they care about and there's probably recess associated and I've seen people say well there's a reason that it's a privately held company you know there's a reason that this isn't publicly traded but to my point and I want to get your opinion on this but like I don't I don't know if retail cares and maybe that's a good thing maybe that's a bad thing but you'll probably have more insight into that
28:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I actually don't think your point retail cares about the voting rights because their voting is pretty miserable anyways, but that's been something that the SEC has been trying to change over the last couple years to get them to vote and take more interest that way.
28:26
[SPEAKER_02]: If think the regulators absolutely care.
28:29
[SPEAKER_02]: about this and you know the one thing that it does make me question and again I don't know enough to I haven't dug deep enough into this but how does affect flow of stacks
28:44
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, again, I know it's a derivative, but it's still indirectly affecting how much shares are out there.
28:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, do you have more derivatives than you actually have stock outstanding?
28:59
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I do think that that is something that
29:02
[SPEAKER_02]: there has to be some sort of answer around.
29:05
[SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, I'm not trying to be a nacer.
29:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just trying to give you some of the things that I believe are being thought about right now for why.
29:12
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the last thing is more of a PR thing.
29:15
[SPEAKER_02]: And that is when we have a cell office going to be inevitable that people will lose some money, those people will come back.
29:24
[SPEAKER_02]: unfortunately some unscrupulous I will say attorneys etc.
29:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I may try to start suing everyone in sight and so with that you know that that's going to be a front page story on the Wall Street Journal that's always bad for a product long term because it hurts confidence and I think we're in such early innings with this
29:45
[SPEAKER_02]: You're as much as we all want to move fast whenever you have anything that hurts confidence in a product.
29:52
[SPEAKER_02]: It took the options market a lot of years after the crash.
29:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Take a few of the markets many years.
29:57
[SPEAKER_02]: People are finally like, okay, these are very good markets, very liquid markets, etc.
30:02
[SPEAKER_02]: This is early stages.
30:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I would just hate to see because as I said, I am a believer in a longer term.
30:07
[SPEAKER_02]: I just want people to be careful so that it's not where you lose people, you know, anybody over forty you lose fifty percent of that audience because they think they got screwed or something like that.
30:17
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's my only pushback on it.
30:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
30:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I think that it's, I think it's a totally fair point, man.
30:24
[SPEAKER_00]: There's, there's things that people need to understand when they're getting into this.
30:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And we have to look at it through both sides of the lens, right?
30:30
[SPEAKER_00]: There's good.
30:31
[SPEAKER_00]: There's bad.
30:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why we bring people like you on because we can have our opinions as natives.
30:36
[SPEAKER_00]: We're probably going to be a little bit biased here and there in the favor of the crypto market.
30:40
[SPEAKER_00]: But we do appreciate you.
30:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, just looking at it from both sides.
30:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think that's what people need to understand.
30:46
[SPEAKER_00]: They need to be educated.
30:48
[SPEAKER_00]: They need to understand.
30:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they can make these decisions for themselves.
30:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's where we want to get people to.
30:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm free markets for free men and all that.
30:58
[SPEAKER_02]: But people manage their own things.
31:01
[SPEAKER_02]: But I like how it affects the industry overall.
31:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Totally.
31:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And at the end of the day, it's a technology upgrade.
31:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And so regulators can't resist it.
31:10
[SPEAKER_01]: They just got to get on board and just like with the internet, it's the same thing.
31:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh my gosh, now we could email everything around.
31:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Now we could look at websites.
31:20
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, all right, well,
31:21
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to just have to have regulation form around that because that's just progress.
31:25
[SPEAKER_01]: It's inevitable almost in a sense.
31:28
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of what this tokenization theme feels like.
31:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I agree with you, Bryce, the one thing that would make me nervous though.
31:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, I don't want to get into a whole regulatory thing for sure.
31:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to make sure that it's one regulator, at least in the US for everybody because you don't want to get into that situation.
31:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I think one of the things that's held us back has been the state by state regulation.
31:52
[SPEAKER_02]: It's absolutely off.
31:54
[SPEAKER_02]: You guys, you guys know that probably better than I do.
31:57
[SPEAKER_02]: So if we can get one, that's the beauty of the SEC and the CFTC.
32:02
[SPEAKER_02]: It's one regulator for the entire country.
32:06
[SPEAKER_02]: It makes things significantly easier to get things done.
32:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes it seems like it's taking a long time, but it's sure better than going to a fifty different states to get this done.
32:16
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's the, that would be an overriding thing that I'd really like to make sure here point.
32:22
[SPEAKER_02]: It is a technology upgrade, but we know regulators sometimes can get no, you know, I won't say getting away,
32:27
[SPEAKER_02]: have their say there.
32:28
[SPEAKER_02]: So as long as we have one regulator federally, go awesome.
32:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's going to happen with the the Clarity Act, right?
32:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So we've got the Clarity Act.
32:36
[SPEAKER_01]: There's the market structure builds coming through, hopefully by, you know, September or something.
32:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I think people are saying it'll it'll come through.
32:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think, um, maybe September, right?
32:46
[SPEAKER_01]: What is that?
32:47
[SPEAKER_01]: What they're saying?
32:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we, I had the privilege of talking to representative French Hill couple of weeks.
32:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, wow.
32:53
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's, uh, head of the congressional, uh, house finance committee.
32:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And he is on board with this bill.
32:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I will say he truly understands crypto in a way that I did not realize that somebody was dealing with so many issues would.
33:07
[SPEAKER_02]: And so that, you know, very, very much on board to get this done and to give us to your point, clarity on everything.
33:12
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think it'll be a best thing for the industry if this passes.
33:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, man.
33:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm really, really hopeful that happens.
33:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of people are feeling pretty positive.
33:22
[SPEAKER_01]: But I want to make sure that we spend some good time talking about what IG North America is doing in the marketplace where you guys sit and kind of the different touch points for the market that you guys have.
33:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell us a little bit about the business.
33:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the crypto business is expanded significantly.
33:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, we were subject to something called SAB-one-new one, which I won't even go into.
33:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure you guys covered it at some point a while ago on a podcast.
33:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Basically, if you didn't cost the assets and use the third party, you know, we use zero hash.
33:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Then you were subject to an additional level of money that you had to put up even though it was already funded by the customer funded by zero has.
34:06
[SPEAKER_02]: We also had a funded, it was a terrible use of capital.
34:10
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the only time in my life I've ever had a product where I was trying to
34:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Not advertised and not really at least anywhere and yet it does show the hunger for crypto because people were still using it.
34:22
[SPEAKER_02]: But you know, it's one of those things.
34:26
[SPEAKER_02]: So that finally came off able to really expand the business, the business continues to increase significantly.
34:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, you think about the type of trader that's at our shop, they trade equities, but they really, you know, more than eighty-five percent of the trades are still at options and futures.
34:45
[SPEAKER_02]: So, these are people who crypto is a natural addition to their portfolio, be it as an investment or as trading, they understand complex products already, they understand complex relationships.
34:58
[SPEAKER_02]: So, to them, crypto is just, it's another trading product, which is absolutely awesome.
35:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, again, and you guys have bought it up, and I love that you guys, you know, the two times I've had the privilege of being out with you guys, I always talk about the education.
35:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I do think it's important that they continue to get more and more educated as to how these products can work.
35:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And even what I like is all the emails we get on the back end of how is this actually happening?
35:26
[SPEAKER_02]: How am I buying this?
35:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And so the more people understand that stuff, the better.
35:30
[SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, the tasty business, tasty crypto, is continuing to expand really quickly.
35:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And we continue to add coins just over the last three months.
35:42
[SPEAKER_02]: We've added twenty points.
35:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And for folks who are listening, can they, you know, go create a tasty account, kind of wherever they are in America, anywhere in the world?
35:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And could they think of it as a wallet or as an exchange or both?
36:00
[SPEAKER_02]: We do both.
36:01
[SPEAKER_02]: We do have a lot.
36:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, you know, no problem to use that, you can actually fund your, if you want to fund your trading account to trade other products with your wallet, you can do so.
36:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And so again, they'll be sorry about this.
36:31
[SPEAKER_02]: That's incredible.
36:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Man, I got to get an account.
36:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I would love, and I'm hoping that this is one of the things that I can help you.
36:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Please let me know.
36:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was going to say I'm going to follow up with your assistant here in email and get an account.
36:43
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll get a referral link for our community or something like that because if you guys do those, I'm not sure.
36:49
[SPEAKER_02]: We absolutely do that, please.
36:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I will make sure the person, you know, if it's possible or I'll make sure we put them to put it together.
36:56
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll do.
36:57
[SPEAKER_01]: That'll be awesome.
36:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
36:59
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got a little lightning round that we like to do.
37:01
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll close it out here with just some fun.
37:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, obviously nothing that we ever say on this shows investment advice.
37:08
[SPEAKER_01]: These are all just our own personal opinions, but you know, for your own style, are you a day trader or a swing trader?
37:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Probably more day.
37:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Day trading.
37:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
37:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So do you go to position?
37:19
[SPEAKER_02]: How about day depending on the product futures?
37:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Day.
37:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Options and equity swing.
37:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
37:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Perfect.
37:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Love it.
37:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Spot or leverage?
37:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Leverage only because I have more experience in the futures market than you know, I've traded them for so many, many years except for of course crypto.
37:42
[SPEAKER_02]: technicals or fundamentals.
37:45
[SPEAKER_02]: More fundamentals but there's a third choice which is probabilities which is what options are based on and really that's what I look at.
37:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell us a little bit more about that.
37:54
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to double click.
37:55
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we're going to take a step out of the lightning round.
37:59
[SPEAKER_02]: If you think what options are on the giant probabilities that tell you the probability of an option being in the money and expiration day.
38:06
[SPEAKER_02]: So whenever I trade anything, I look at what are the probabilities of where they will say stack for ease of this
38:15
[SPEAKER_02]: stock underlying is going to be.
38:17
[SPEAKER_02]: You can use it for crypto too.
38:18
[SPEAKER_02]: You look at the crypto options and say, okay, here is maybe I'm looking out the September.
38:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Here is the probability that Bitcoin will be trading at a hundred and twenty by
38:31
[SPEAKER_02]: September, maybe it's a, you know, right now just off the top of my head.
38:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I believe it's about a forty one percent.
38:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So that means it's a forty one delta option.
38:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
38:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
38:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And the probabilities are a little different than I, but thumbnail, it's delta.
38:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, if you just look at, we, we have probabilities on a platform, probabilities in the money, because it overlays volatility, but delta in, in probabilities are going to be, you can, as I said, Brian, please, let it go.
38:54
[SPEAKER_02]: That, that, Delta's is our thumbnail.
38:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And so you can say there's a forty-one production probability that will be there.
39:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, do I think that probability is high enough in order for me to go out and pay whatever the premium is right there to be in the money on September.
39:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And to your point, what's my, what's my holding period?
39:14
[SPEAKER_02]: If I wanted this call a three dollars and we're gonna go this five dollars while I sell it.
39:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Or if I'm buying the spot of Bitcoin itself, okay, I think that that probability makes sense.
39:25
[SPEAKER_01]: to pay this price.
39:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Love it.
39:28
[SPEAKER_01]: That's awesome.
39:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
39:29
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll go back to the lighting round.
39:31
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got chart chart indicators like RSI, Mac D or pure price action.
39:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this is a good one.
39:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Buying your winners or buying your losers.
39:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure what you mean by that.
39:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Basically, like double down on a winner or double down on a loser.
39:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I see, I'm more probably buying your losers.
39:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
39:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And to get a better dollar cost average kind of on the thing that you were going to say, I go on with an average price and I also playing the probability game.
40:07
[SPEAKER_01]: love it and there's so many ways to play this game.
40:09
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the beauty of it.
40:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And a couple more questions.
40:11
[SPEAKER_01]: What's more important finding the perfect gem for a ten X or mitigating risk every day?
40:17
[SPEAKER_02]: mitigating risk every day.
40:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Got to say in the game.
40:21
[SPEAKER_00]: That is where I see people go so wrong in crypto.
40:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
40:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Is they see these people posting PNLs.
40:28
[SPEAKER_00]: They hear the story of this person put a thousand dollars in and they became a millionaire.
40:33
[SPEAKER_00]: everyone goes wrong because they're so focused on finding the hidden gem in crypto that will hundred x thousand x ten thousand x et cetera and they don't mitigate risk yeah i just wanted to stress this because i could not agree more on any point of this entire podcast that risk mitigation is what separates the people who succeed long-term and the people who are short-term winners and don't succeed long-term don't totally
41:00
[SPEAKER_01]: and there's so many different levels of risk like I was talking to somebody recently who lost a big chunk of change and he was in a market neutral trade okay how do you lose a bunch of money in the market neutral trade well
41:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Protocol risk, the protocol went defunct.
41:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Somebody had some kind of back door, or the bridge was too centralized.
41:21
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a hack, and now he's stuck out a bunch of money.
41:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And so people think, you know, he needs like, you know, very smart guy.
41:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't my math.
41:28
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't my programs.
41:29
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just risk that I didn't really account for because it was an abnormal risk kind of thing.
41:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, so there's just so much risk.
41:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I guess people are forgetting the lessons that we learned from FTX and Genesis and BlockFi and Voyager and
41:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And the list goes on on.
41:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Bull markets tend to do that, Bruce.
41:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, it's so true, man.
41:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's why history rhymes, right?
41:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Because people kind of forget the problems of the past.
41:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, last question I have for you is really just about tasty and the powerful tools.
42:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Is there one in it?
42:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, this part of the lightning round is there one tool that you guys offer that kind of makes it makes the retail trading experience much more powerful or do you have like a favorite aspect that you want to shout out about the platforms?
42:15
[SPEAKER_02]: The analyze, so it gives you the ability to analyze your position to add a calm fake positions to it to say, okay, if I were to do this, what does it mean to my overall position?
42:27
[SPEAKER_02]: What does it mean to my buying power?
42:28
[SPEAKER_02]: How much am I account am I using up to do this?
42:31
[SPEAKER_02]: So it allows you to plan through as much as humanly possible beforehand.
42:36
[SPEAKER_02]: We're talking about mitigating risk.
42:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, there's no better way to mitigate risk than to run through some really bad scenarios.
42:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, whenever I make a trade, I always start with what's worst case scenario, because once you understand worst case scenario, we talked about emotions.
42:51
[SPEAKER_02]: It takes a lot of the emotion out of it.
42:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you'll still be pissed when you lose money.
42:56
[SPEAKER_02]: At least you won't make a decision.
42:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, oh, my god, I have to do this right now.
43:00
[SPEAKER_02]: You'll have planned it through.
43:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And to me, it's one of the most important things you can do.
43:05
[SPEAKER_02]: No, actually no matter what level of trader you are.
43:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I could have said it better.
43:09
[SPEAKER_01]: We always say one of our monsters is plan your trade and trade your plan.
43:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Just to that point.
43:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And one of the other things we also say is logic and emotion never occupy the brain at the same time.
43:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And so if you're feeling really emotional, my wife loves this one.
43:22
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're feeling really emotional, you're probably not acting super logical.
43:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you really can't bring that emotion into the markets because it'll cloud your
43:31
[SPEAKER_01]: your judgment and you'll make less money.
43:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And we all want to just make money here.
43:35
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't want to get to to emotional.
43:38
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what you said.
43:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been married over thirty six years.
43:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't use that one too often at home.
43:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Love it.
43:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, JJ, we appreciate all of your wisdom that you've shared with us, both about the markets and marriage.
43:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And all such things.
43:55
[SPEAKER_01]: But no, we're really excited.
43:57
[SPEAKER_01]: We're definitely going to follow up.
43:58
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll get a referral link for our community and spread the good word about tasty crypto and all things you guys are building.
44:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Where can people kind of follow your journey or you on LinkedIn or Twitter or anything?
44:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm Twitter.
44:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm at the JJ, can I hint?
44:14
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I am on LinkedIn, JJ King ahead, but I post a decent amount of code.
44:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I write a column three days a week for Forbes.com.
44:27
[SPEAKER_02]: So Monday, Wednesday, Friday is a really column for them.
44:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow, that's awesome.
44:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Lots of places to find JJ and to follow along with him.
44:35
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll have links to that in the show notes, so please follow along and JJ, until next time.
44:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Guys, I always, always upload, I really appreciate you having me back.
44:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Have a great weekend if I don't talk to you for a bit, have a great summer.
44:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Amen.