Latest / Karl and Crew / Best Of-4th of July

Transcript

Best Of-4th of July · Karl and Crew

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  S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. It's Carl
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  S1: and crew.
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  S2: Come as you are an experienced guide, overcome what seems
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  S2: impossible and live as you never imagined.
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  S1: Delivering the truth daily.
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  S3: If it were possible to have every worldly gain available.
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  S3: And you're forfeiting your soul. There's no amount of gain
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  S3: that would make it worth it.
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  S4: Our own way never ever works. Because it's apart from
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  S4: the life source, which is God.
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  S5: For me, growing up, love was always conditional and can
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  S5: be taken from you. Christ's love can't. And he went
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  S5: to the cross with my mind and my heart that night.
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  S1: Now, from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl
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  S1: and Crew.
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  S2: You know, when you think about scarcity, there's a lot
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  S2: of things that may come to mind. And we are
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  S2: well aware of the fact that as we're talking with
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  S2: you right now, there's a lot of you that feel
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  S2: so alone. You feel so helpless. Whether it's financial, relational, spiritual.
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  S2: But our God is able. He's able to meet you
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  S2: right there. Coming up in just a couple of minutes here,
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  S2: we're going to have a special guest ducking in here
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  S2: talking about loss and what God can do.
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  S3: Rachel Faulkner Brown. She is a widow, actually, twice widowed
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  S3: by the time she was in her mid 30s. And
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  S3: the Lord has given her a tremendous vantage point and ministry.
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  S3: She wants to speak directly to those of you going
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  S3: through loss of any kind. That's coming up here on
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  S3: Carl and Crew.
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  S1: She was trying to earn her way to God, but
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  S1: God showed her she didn't have to. Ali is in
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  S1: the crew. It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
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  S2: It's an amazing phenomenon. But if we find ourselves in
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  S2: a season of scarcity, it's those touch points of God's
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  S2: love that bring abundance out of that. I mean, I'm
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  S2: just going to go back to Mark six in my head.
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  S2: This one chapter of the gospel of Mark is so
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  S2: loaded with God's provision showing up when the seas are
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  S2: raging out on the Sea of Galilee, and Jesus steps
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  S2: onto those whitecaps and he just says, don't be afraid, man.
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  S2: I'm here. He doesn't call him the storm first. He
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  S2: first announces, I'm here. And for some of you, you've
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  S2: got the scarcity going on in your life, and it's
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  S2: manifesting itself in different ways financially, relationally, spiritually. I want
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  S2: you to know you're strategically positioned for God to do
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  S2: something absolutely amazing in your life. I'm not overselling it here,
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  S2: am I, Rachel Falkner Brown. That's when God moves, doesn't he, sister?
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  S6: Amen. Yes. Oh my goodness. I'm over here. Like holding
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  S6: it in. I'm like, yes, God, yes!
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  S2: Rachel, pour out your heart, sister. I mean, you know what?
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  S2: Before we get into your story, I want you to
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  S2: speak to people that find themselves in a moment of scarcity.
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  S2: They might have, like you lost a spouse, they might
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  S2: be have lost a job. Really, your story relates to
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  S2: so many stories, Rachel, because God shows up when we're
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  S2: in the grind of life, doesn't he? Sister.
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  S6: Yes. Oh my goodness. Absolutely. And really, honestly, when you
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  S6: when you're in it, it's terrifying. And then when you're
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  S6: on the other side, you're like, oh my goodness, he
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  S6: was there. And so I just want to speak to
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  S6: the people who are in fear because I get it.
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  S6: I mean, I totally get it. And it's, you know,
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  S6: even though Jesus said it so many times, do not fear.
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  S6: That's a really natural reaction, right? I mean, it keeps
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  S6: us safe in so many ways. So, so don't discount
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  S6: yourself that you're not spiritual enough if you're afraid because
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  S6: it's very normal. I mean, look at the people who
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  S6: walked with Jesus in the boat in Mark five. They're
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  S6: they were just terrified. And they were with him. I mean,
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  S6: they were with him. We're like, you know, I feel
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  S6: like there's a special measure of grace and mercy for
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  S6: us when we're having to pray to someone that we're
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  S6: not with. Yes, we do see the Holy Spirit. And yes, we,
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  S6: you know, we do use our divine imagination. But at
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  S6: the end of the day, I mean, it's very normal. And,
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  S6: you know, I was with a widow last night on
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  S6: the phone. We have our new Bible study that just
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  S6: came out. And, you know, she's in debt. She has, um,
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  S6: an $84,000 college loan bill that she just got in
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  S6: the mail, a reminder of that bill last night. And she's,
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  S6: you know, we go into a Zoom room and it's
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  S6: she and I and she's just like, I can hardly
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  S6: even hear anything because all I know is I can't
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  S6: pay this bill. And God, I mean, the lack on
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  S6: her life. And I'm like, listen, that is nothing to God.
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  S6: Sometimes we just need the reminder. Honestly, y'all. I mean,
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  S6: sometimes we just need the reminder that what we feel
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  S6: like is so big is not big.
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  S3: Rachel Falkner Brown, our guest right now, she is the
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  S3: founder of Never Alone Widows, the largest Christian Widows ministry,
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  S3: 501 C three in the country. Give us a little
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  S3: bit of your story, Rachel. I mean, it feels cavalier
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  S3: to even sum it up in a sentence or two.
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  S3: But you lost you were twice widowed by the time
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  S3: you were in your mid 30s. I mean that that
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  S3: stops people in their tracks a little bit. Give us
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  S3: your story.
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  S6: Yeah. Um, well, I was widowed at 23. My husband
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  S6: had an aneurism on the basketball court doing what he loved.
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  S6: We'd just come home from church, and I remarried two
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  S6: years later. We had two kids together. Blair was a
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  S6: fighter pilot in the Air Force, flying the T-38 out
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  S6: of Columbus, Mississippi, and he and his student pilot crashed
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  S6: on the runway. And, um, the cable and the wing broke,
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  S6: and I was left widowed twice at 31. And so,
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  S6: you know, it's it's unbelievable. And I look back on
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  S6: it now, I didn't know anybody but Elizabeth Elliot, who'd
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  S6: lost two husbands and she was so far removed. And
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  S6: I mean, there was, you know, I could only read
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  S6: her books. It wasn't like I could call her up
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  S6: and go help me. Um, and there were no other
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  S6: young widows in my town. And so I just, I
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  S6: didn't have anybody to look to. And, you know, it's
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  S6: so funny. In Second Kings, it talks about and she
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  S6: had a, a home among her people. Well, I think
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  S6: it's why I started never Alone because I was like,
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  S6: I did not have a home among my people. I
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  S6: didn't even know people. So I was like, I'm going
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  S6: to give people people who are widows. And, um, yeah,
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  S6: it's just been, it's been an amazing ride. And I
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  S6: never set out to do this. I think I just
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  S6: wanted what I didn't have for widows. That's what I
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  S6: wanted for widows. And I never dreamed it would be
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  S6: what it is today with 90 groups across the country. And,
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  S6: you know, hopefully we'll end up with 500 before. the
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  S6: next few years.
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  S2: You know, it's it's interesting. Erica Kirk was speaking at
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  S2: this memorial, and she said she was talking about the
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  S2: emotions of going to the morgue to identify and look
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  S2: at her husband. She said there was a slight grin.
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  S2: There were some things that she saw, and she was
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  S2: filled with questions galore. But one thing that she said
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  S2: that really stuck with me, she said I had a
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  S2: depth of pain that I, I cannot describe. Rachel why
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  S2: is that so? Undescribable and can you put words to
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  S2: it at all, especially when you lost your second husband?
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  S2: What were. What was that I want I want you
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  S2: to take us there because some people are feeling that
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  S2: right now.
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  S6: I can um, I never saw Blair's body and so
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  S6: I did not have that experience. I did not see
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  S6: him till I got to the to the funeral home
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  S6: seven days later. Because he came, he became, I hate
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  S6: to say it, but he became property of the U.S.
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  S6: Air Force because of the way he died. And so, um,
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  S6: I did have that experience with Todd. I went to
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  S6: the E.R., I was in there on the gurney looking.
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  S6: I remember looking down at his basketball shoes. And honestly,
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  S6: Blair died with his boots on. Todd died with his
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  S6: shoes on, and he died doing what he loved, and
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  S6: so did Blair. And so the depth of pain for me, um,
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  S6: it was, I have to say, it was very similar
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  S6: to Erica. But at the end of the day, I
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  S6: think I had this knowing that they had really lived.
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  S6: We had both, they had both really lived. And, and
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  S6: Charlie had really lived. And so yes, you are so
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  S6: you are absolutely shattered. I mean, my heart was on
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  S6: the floor in a million pieces and I was like,
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  S6: I there will never be a way to gather up
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  S6: all these shards. It's like when you break a glass
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  S6: and there's shards everywhere. You just got to sweep it
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  S6: up and keep going, right? There's no way to put
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  S6: that glass back together. Nobody's super gluing glasses, you know,
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  S6: and that's the way it feels. I mean, yes, Kintsugi,
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  S6: that's such a beautiful picture. But that isn't real reality.
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  S6: I mean, you know what I'm saying. Like it is
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  S6: it becomes reality. But in the moment you've just got
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  S6: to sweep up and, and take the next step forward. And,
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  S6: and that is, that is what we all do. That's
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  S6: what Erika did. That's what I did. And that's what
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  S6: widows do. I mean, we just we're shattered and we're
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  S6: never the same. We're never the same. Our brain changes
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  S6: that day.
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  S3: Rachel Falkner Brown, our guest right now coming up, that
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  S3: picture is, I'm sure, vivid in your mind right now
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  S3: of a glass shattering of shards being all over the floor.
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  S3: You know, maybe days later, you ever step on a
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  S3: piece of glass because it was remaining, it showed up.
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  S3: You hadn't been able to get up that piece. How
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  S3: does God bring abundance in a situation like this? More
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  S3: with our guests. Rachel Faulkner Brown coming up.
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  S1: Breaking chains and running free. You're listening to cast and Crew.
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  S2: The amazing reality is that when the chips are absolutely
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  S2: down and it doesn't matter what area of life. I
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  S2: want you to know something today, my friend. Our God
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  S2: is a God of abundance. Even in our weakness. He
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  S2: is strong. And I think that's the point, isn't it, Ali?
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  S2: I mean, that's the point of abundance is that it's
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  S2: not about stuff. It's about him, right?
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  S3: Because nothing can replace what's been lost, what's been taken
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  S3: from you. Rachel Faulkner Brown, our guest right now, tragically
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  S3: lost two husbands before she was in her mid 30s. Rachel,
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  S3: you you feel rightly that things have been taken from you,
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  S3: that your your husband, your dear husband. This happened twice,
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  S3: was taken from you. Does there ever come a point
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  S3: where you feel like, okay, I don't, not that you
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  S3: don't grieve the loss, but I feel like I'm whole again.
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  S6: Yes. Oh, absolutely. I, I do think, um, with a
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  S6: lot of healing and a lot of therapy and a
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  S6: lot of questions like what happened to me when I was,
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  S6: you know, as a young child, how did that I
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  S6: had no idea. Ali, honestly, that my 35 year old
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  S6: self was connected back to my ten year old girl,
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  S6: little girl. I never had had done any kind of work.
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  S6: I didn't go to therapy for 11 years. And I
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  S6: will say, I also didn't feel things deeply. I was
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  S6: just kind of a soldier. I was like, all right,
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  S6: let's just. Onward, Christian soldier and say this scripture. I
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  S6: was a Jesus girl all through and through, but I didn't,
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  S6: I was, I was like Pete, who wrote, um, emotionally
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  S6: healthy spirituality. I was, I was Pete, I was like,
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  S6: I got you Jesus. And I don't know how to
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  S6: feel true pain. I don't know how to grieve, I
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  S6: didn't grieve, I mean, it sounds crazy, but I flung
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  S6: myself into things and there were people who needed me. And,
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  S6: you know, the squadron was watching. My kids were watching.
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  S6: The church was watching. I'm like, oh, okay, I'll be
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  S6: all the things for all these people. And I honestly
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  S6: did not grieve till I remarried, um, really fully. I
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  S6: didn't grieve. And so I think, you know, through therapy
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  S6: and inner healing, I, we, you know, we love Jim,
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  S6: Jim Wilder and his approach, the Emanuel approach, where you, you're,
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  S6: you're with Jesus. I didn't know how to be with Jesus.
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  S6: I didn't know how to let him comfort me. I
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  S6: didn't know how to feel. So re learning how to
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  S6: do all those things, that was a huge solution. And
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  S6: it led to wholeness. Absolutely. You can 1,000% feel whole again.
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  S2: So let's go after this because a lot of people
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  S2: that are living in scarcity have stayed there a long time.
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  S2: And pretty quick they've got an incredible shrinking God, right?
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  S2: And it's not the God of the scriptures. How does God,
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  S2: in simple terms, meet with us in our emotional scarcity
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  S2: when we feel like, man, I don't even know if
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  S2: I'm feeling anything right now. What do you say, Rachel?
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  S6: Yeah. Well, it's so interesting because I was listening to
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  S6: a sermon last week and they said, do you feel
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  S6: anything when you eat dinner? You know, when you eat
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  S6: three times a day, do you feel your bones being nourished?
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  S6: Do you feel how it's like? That is such a
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  S6: good analogy because no, you don't. But that is the word.
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  S6: When you wash yourself in the word, something is happening,
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  S6: but you don't necessarily have to have this massive encounter
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  S6: with Jesus to to know that something's happening. You just
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  S6: have to trust God is doing something. Just like when
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  S6: I eat, I am fueling my body. Now I don't
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  S6: feel necessarily. Yes, I may feel tired if I don't eat.
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  S6: But you don't feel your bones being strengthened when you
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  S6: drink milk. I mean, you know, it's just that same principle.
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  S6: God is doing something, whether you know it or not,
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  S6: when you wash yourself in the word.
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  S3: You mentioned Rachel. You mentioned. I love that you mentioned
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  S3: the need that you felt initially to kind of for
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  S3: everybody else to be the strong Christian widow to, to
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  S3: soldier on, you know, and I think many people feel
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  S3: that that like, I've got to, you know, the people
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  S3: are watching for my witness, for my testimony just in
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  S3: our remaining moments. How did you get to that point
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  S3: where you went, you know what? I don't have to
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  S3: be that for people.
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  S6: Well, I got to that point by meeting people who
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  S6: were free because I was not free. Ellie, I had
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  S6: a secret, and I was carrying this secret from my childhood.
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  S6: I did not know what freedom looked like because my family,
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  S6: I mean, we were amazing people, but we just didn't
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  S6: talk about hard things. And I think when you press
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  S6: in to the hard things, when you say the thing,
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  S6: I mean, y'all, we work with women every day who
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  S6: are widowed, who've had abortions, who had an abusive marriage,
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  S6: and they couldn't say anything because their husband died, or
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  S6: they're like, it'll ruin my reputation and all of those things.
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  S6: You think it keeps you, you think it keeps you
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  S6: safe and it actually keeps you stuck. And, and for me,
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  S6: that was the road to wholeness. That was the road
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  S6: to abundance was being like, I have nothing to fear
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  S6: because I'm free. I have, I've totally let go of,
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  S6: of what people think of me. I do not fear people.
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  S6: And I think letting go of that changed me forever.
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  S2: Yeah. Rachel, you're spot on this notion that we need
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  S2: to put out a signal that we're okay and that
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  S2: our image kind of, uh, trumps our Circumstances. Yeah. It's deadly.
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  S2: Some of you are going, all right. How do I
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  S2: get more of this? I want God to minister in
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  S2: my scarcity to create abundance. We've got an answer for
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  S2: you right now.
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  S3: Yeah. Rachel has the ministry. Also, there's a podcast, a
• 15:54
  S3: book that she's written. Just text strength to (800) 555-7898, text
• 16:00
  S3: strength to (800) 555-7898.
• 16:06
  S1: Get to know the team behind the scenes. Follow Carl
• 16:09
  S1: and crew on Facebook and Instagram.
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  S2: Sometimes there's a central passage of scripture that when you
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  S2: see it, you go, whoa, that's a game changer. So
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  S2: let's just back up a little bit. It was called
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  S2: the King of Kings, the Prince of Peace. He is
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  S2: the Messiah. A crown would have fit on his head,
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  S2: wouldn't it, Ali?
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  S3: Oh, yeah.
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  S2: But he didn't take it. Isn't that wild? He did
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  S2: not take the crown. I mean, he was crowned. No
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  S2: doubt about it. But was it was after the crucifixion.
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  S4: That first crown of thorns.
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  S2: Yeah. He was crowned alright. It was there was a
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  S2: crown of thorns around him. But we look here at
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  S2: verse 45 in Mark chapter ten, and we find for
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  S2: even the Son of Man came not to be served,
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  S2: but to serve, and to give his life as a
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  S2: ransom for many. You know, the context here is that
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  S2: he says this, and the first time I heard these
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  S2: verses is when I was running for student body president,
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  S2: and everyone else that was running for student body president
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  S2: used this verse. And whoever would be first among you
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  S2: must be a slave of all. And he. We go
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  S2: back one more verse, but whoever would be great among
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  S2: you must be your servant. Those are easier words to
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  S2: say than they are to do, aren't they, guys?
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  S5: Yes, because our.
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  S3: Human nature is to push our way to the front,
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  S3: to be served.
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  S4: And.
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  S3: To serve.
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  S4: And when we're there, we try to prove why we
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  S4: should be there and exert authority and power over people.
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  S4: When we are in a leadership.
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  S5: And serving is hard. You know, some people are like,
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  S5: I don't want to do that.
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  S2: Yeah. I met with a group of leaders on a,
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  S2: on a call here probably two nights ago. My bride
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  S2: actually did most of the prep for it, but it
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  S2: was how to, how to lead a small group that's
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  S2: going to be effective and move people forward in their
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  S2: relationship with Jesus. And, uh, one of the points that
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  S2: my bride gave was how to handle messy people because
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  S2: she says everybody is. And we just had a good
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  S2: discussion about this because as much as these leaders are somewhat,
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  S2: you would look at them and go, pretty self-confident people
• 18:33
  S2: in this. And, uh, when you scrape below the surface,
• 18:35
  S2: you realize that serving the people that are in their
• 18:39
  S2: groups is very difficult because there's messy people, and sometimes
• 18:43
  S2: the very ones you're trying to serve are biting the
• 18:45
  S2: hand that's feeding them. Isn't that something?
• 18:48
  S3: I mean, we've all seen it. Maybe we've all done it.
• 18:51
  S2: Yeah. So we're going to talk about some of those
• 18:54
  S2: kind of nuances. What's it look like to serve when
• 18:58
  S2: you feel like there's no appreciation at all? Jesus faced that.
• 19:02
  S2: Hang on.
• 19:03
  S1: It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
• 19:06
  S2: So I was about two years old in my relationship
• 19:09
  S2: with Jesus Christ. I was at Multnomah Bible College, and
• 19:12
  S2: I had a couple of professors actually, that talked me
• 19:15
  S2: into running for student body president. I hadn't even planned
• 19:18
  S2: to be there more than one year. I was just
• 19:20
  S2: going to get a one year quick little certificate, do
• 19:23
  S2: my one year of Bible college, and then head off
• 19:26
  S2: to the mission field, building facilities, housing, whatever I could
• 19:30
  S2: construct with my carpentry construction skills. And these profs said, no,
• 19:37
  S2: we want you to run and the benefit of running
• 19:39
  S2: for student body president is if you won, you had
• 19:43
  S2: all your tuition paid for the next year.
• 19:45
  S3: That's a nice perk.
• 19:46
  S2: Which was a big deal. And lo and behold, I won.
• 19:50
  S2: And it was about two weeks into being studio president,
• 19:54
  S2: student government president, that I thought, what in the world
• 19:57
  S2: have I done?
• 19:58
  S3: Why? Why? What made you say that?
• 20:01
  S2: I can't even believe I'm reliving this. And I don't
• 20:03
  S2: think we've ever talked about it. I had a studio
• 20:06
  S2: office that was kind of an open door. It had
• 20:09
  S2: all glass, and it was right outside the cafeteria. And
• 20:13
  S2: I found out right away that being student body president
• 20:17
  S2: meant you were the complaint center for the entire student body.
• 20:22
  S4: That's hilarious.
• 20:23
  S2: No, I'm not joking. What are you laughing about?
• 20:26
  S3: Because I know exactly that that's true. I mean, no,
• 20:29
  S3: I'm feeling this with you.
• 20:31
  S2: Oh, it was painful. And because of where my office
• 20:34
  S2: was located, it usually related to the cafeteria food.
• 20:38
  S3: I was wondering, I was wondering if there was any
• 20:40
  S3: correlation there.
• 20:41
  S2: And I mean, I'm in that office for like, I
• 20:44
  S2: went and ate my lunch, hustled over to my office
• 20:48
  S2: and its glass door. And by the way, I wound
• 20:51
  S2: up about two months into my office, I asked facilities
• 20:55
  S2: if they could get me a solid door. I said,
• 20:57
  S2: I'm not able to get anything done with my V,
• 21:00
  S2: p and all my different officers in here. We're not
• 21:02
  S2: getting anything done because people keep sticking their heads in, going, hey,
• 21:05
  S2: I got a complaint. But but it was about two
• 21:07
  S2: days into this and a guy walks into my office,
• 21:10
  S2: he goes, you got to do something. You got to
• 21:12
  S2: help us here. I said, what's going on? He said,
• 21:14
  S2: have you seen that meat they're serving in there? There's like,
• 21:18
  S2: there's like rainbows on top of the meat. That can't
• 21:20
  S2: be good for you. Carl and I went back to
• 21:25
  S2: the head chef, bottle washer in the back, and I said, listen,
• 21:28
  S2: I got some questions from some students about like the
• 21:32
  S2: rainbow on the meat. They said, if they don't like it,
• 21:35
  S2: too bad.
• 21:37
  S4: That's a fun spot to be in.
• 21:38
  S2: Now I'm in a really good spot.
• 21:41
  S3: Okay.
• 21:42
  S4: Someone's gonna be upset.
• 21:43
  S2: Well, I went back and I said, listen, I, I
• 21:46
  S2: just and I was trying to be super diplomatic and
• 21:49
  S2: I and, and I was, I just said, listen, they
• 21:52
  S2: don't have a lot of money to work with back there.
• 21:55
  S2: And so you're going to be seeing a lot of leftovers.
• 21:59
  S2: And so I even took it further. I said, you're
• 22:01
  S2: not going to see a lot of new food, and
• 22:03
  S2: things that don't get eaten will show up in soup
• 22:05
  S2: dishes and things like that. So no, I'm serious about this.
• 22:10
  S2: This is the way it rolled. So I said, you know,
• 22:13
  S2: we're just going to have to suck it up. And
• 22:15
  S2: I said, we came here for a Bible education. And
• 22:18
  S2: here's the reality that didn't work for a lot of
• 22:21
  S2: these students. And I found myself being studio president going, wow,
• 22:28
  S2: you know, I campaigned on one of my planks was,
• 22:31
  S2: I want to serve you. But man, you're making it hard.
• 22:35
  S2: I mean, they complained about everything.
• 22:37
  S4: I can't serve you on everything. Yeah.
• 22:40
  S3: I think so many people have have felt that. I mean,
• 22:43
  S3: the the servant leader is a pretty common term. You'll
• 22:47
  S3: see that in a ton of job descriptions or mission
• 22:51
  S3: statements that were servant leaders. This idea that I want
• 22:53
  S3: to lead the way by serving you, serving others. But man,
• 22:58
  S3: when you get down into the to the nitty gritty
• 23:01
  S3: of that, it's often exactly what you're describing. It becomes
• 23:06
  S3: a place where people can air their complaints, air dirty laundry,
• 23:10
  S3: and you are supposed to fix it.
• 23:12
  S2: Yeah. You know who really servant leads around here in
• 23:16
  S2: a unique way. And I cheer for him and he's
• 23:19
  S2: God willing. He's not listening because I don't want to
• 23:21
  S2: make him blush. But Matt McNealy is a great servant
• 23:25
  S2: leader that we have for a boss here.
• 23:27
  S3: Yes he is.
• 23:27
  S2: Wouldn't you say that?
• 23:28
  S3: Yes.
• 23:28
  S4: Completely agree. Yeah.
• 23:30
  S2: I mean, I, I, I asked something of him yesterday,
• 23:35
  S2: and I said, I hate to even ask you this, and.
• 23:38
  S2: And his statement to me was, Carl, don't ever hesitate
• 23:41
  S2: to ask me for what you're really feeling. And I'm like, oh, boy.
• 23:45
  S4: I've got for Matt. Uh, he, I told him that I,
• 23:49
  S4: I was needing to have my brakes replaced on my
• 23:51
  S4: car and he said, well, why don't you get the
• 23:52
  S4: pieces and come on down to my house and we'll,
• 23:55
  S4: we'll change them. And he's driving me to the or
• 23:58
  S4: picking me up from the airport in a week. Uh,
• 24:01
  S4: you know. Yeah. And, and my wife and my little
• 24:04
  S4: girl were, were all gonna put the car seat up
• 24:07
  S4: in his car and he's gonna take us home and,
• 24:09
  S4: and he's like, if you ever need me to do
• 24:11
  S4: that and I'm free, just ask me and I'll do it. Wow.
• 24:15
  S4: So yeah, great servant heart.
• 24:17
  S2: What a guy. What a guy. And so the question
• 24:24
  S2: comes in what area are you leading? Because we're all
• 24:28
  S2: leading somewhere, right, Ellie?
• 24:30
  S3: Yes. You could be leading in a workplace. You could
• 24:32
  S3: be leading at home. You could be leading in a
• 24:35
  S3: small group, many different contexts where each of us are
• 24:38
  S3: called to lead.
• 24:39
  S2: And our big idea out of Mark 1045 today is
• 24:42
  S2: that he came to serve. And the question is, when
• 24:49
  S2: you have a position of power, whether it's a parent
• 24:52
  S2: or you're a teacher or you're running a division at work,
• 24:57
  S2: this is meddling right now. But what if you had
• 25:00
  S2: a total mental shift today on this one? A total
• 25:04
  S2: change in heart. And you said, you know what? I'm
• 25:06
  S2: going to go in today. I'm going to talk to
• 25:08
  S2: my kids today. I'm going to talk to my class today.
• 25:12
  S2: I'm going to talk with this little group that I
• 25:14
  S2: lead at the Walmart Greeters today that I work with.
• 25:19
  S2: I'm going to serve. I'm not going to flex muscle.
• 25:22
  S2: How world, how much would the world change if we
• 25:25
  S2: all had that perspective shift today?
• 25:27
  S3: Yeah. And knowing that there's going to be a cost
• 25:31
  S3: attached to that, that you're your approach to leading by
• 25:36
  S3: serving you very may well become the dumping grounds for complaints.
• 25:41
  S3: And so some of the dying to self, I think,
• 25:43
  S3: is accepting that it's going to be hard.
• 25:46
  S2: Yeah. So what's the takeaway? Well, first off, if you're
• 25:50
  S2: young and you're in school, don't run for student government president.
• 25:54
  S3: Okay. That's a good.
• 25:55
  S2: One.
• 25:55
  S4: One good lesson.
• 25:56
  S2: Or if you do, brace yourself. But the bigger lesson
• 26:00
  S2: today is if you find yourself in any position of power,
• 26:06
  S2: take a moment and think about what Jesus modeled for us.
• 26:11
  S2: For even the Son of Man came not to be served,
• 26:15
  S2: but to serve and to give his life as a
• 26:18
  S2: ransom for many.
• 26:21
  S1: Take your next step with Jesus. Today you're listening to
• 26:25
  S1: Carl and crew.
• 26:26
  S2: Abundance out of scarcity. It's everywhere in the scriptures. It's
• 26:30
  S2: the widow's mite. It's the Macedonian believers who didn't have much.
• 26:35
  S2: But when they gave, it just overflowed. And this. That's
• 26:40
  S2: the that's the gospel. That's the gospel. The good news
• 26:44
  S2: of Jesus Christ is that while we were yet sinners,
• 26:47
  S2: Christ died for us. While we had our backs to God.
• 26:52
  S2: Jesus came to deliver us. He's our Messiah. But then
• 26:56
  S2: you run into people with all kinds of life situations.
• 26:59
  S2: And sometimes if you're going to read a verse to them,
• 27:01
  S2: you better give some context here, because to somebody who's
• 27:05
  S2: unmarried or a widow, you might be tempted to just read. Well,
• 27:09
  S2: let me read to you what Paul said, first Corinthians seven,
• 27:12
  S2: verse eight, to the unmarried and the widows. I say
• 27:14
  S2: that it is good for them to remain single as
• 27:17
  S2: I am. I think it's better to read on a
• 27:20
  S2: little bit. Right. Lisa, what do you say? Special guest
• 27:22
  S2: Lisa here with us. What do you say, Lisa.
• 27:26
  S7: Probably good to read on. Yeah. Um, you know, not
• 27:28
  S7: everyone's called to singleness. Not everyone's called to marriage. And
• 27:32
  S7: so I think we have to think that through.
• 27:35
  S2: Yeah. So but let's go after this because we, we
• 27:39
  S2: don't want to be verse clippers and verse slappers. No way.
• 27:44
  S2: But Lisa, what Paul said, we can't skip past that.
• 27:49
  S2: There is a beauty in singleness. Paul championed it. What
• 27:53
  S2: is the beauty of singleness that people sometimes are begging
• 27:57
  S2: to get out of when God's saying, enjoy the season,
• 28:01
  S2: find the abundance in this season. What is it?
• 28:04
  S7: Yeah. Well, there's just a uniqueness in our ability to
• 28:08
  S7: devote ourselves to the things of God. And I think
• 28:11
  S7: that's something that we have to latch on to and remember.
• 28:14
  S7: And it doesn't mean, again, you highlighted it well, Carl,
• 28:17
  S7: that some people are going to have shorter seasons of singleness.
• 28:20
  S7: Some people are going to have longer. What I know
• 28:23
  S7: today is I'm single and I have to steward that
• 28:26
  S7: in the way that God is calling me to steward it.
• 28:29
  S7: And for me, it means showing up at focus on
• 28:31
  S7: the family and working with young adults and singles and
• 28:35
  S7: pouring into them and being honest in my relationships and
• 28:39
  S7: being faithful to my church. And that's, that's a unique calling.
• 28:43
  S7: Maybe in the way it's lived out for singles, of course,
• 28:46
  S7: we're all called to serve the Lord and show up,
• 28:48
  S7: but I think that's something that singles can get excited about.
• 28:51
  S3: Lisa Anderson, our guest right now, she's the director of
• 28:54
  S3: Boundless and Young Adults at Focus on the family. As
• 28:57
  S3: she mentions, she also hosts The Boundless Show, a national
• 29:00
  S3: radio program and podcast. You know, when you think about singleness,
• 29:05
  S3: sometimes it's required that we strip away some of the
• 29:08
  S3: wrong thoughts, wrong attitudes on marriage. I know you addressed
• 29:13
  S3: that in your book. What are some of those wrong attitudes?
• 29:17
  S7: Yeah, I think I mean, I think that one of
• 29:19
  S7: the biggest ones is just that marriage is going to
• 29:22
  S7: solve all your problems, you know, and sometimes I tell
• 29:25
  S7: that in the converse to singles and I say, look,
• 29:27
  S7: do you realize that your singleness is not the biggest
• 29:30
  S7: thing about you and marrieds who are listening? Your marriage
• 29:33
  S7: is not the biggest thing about you either. We are.
• 29:36
  S7: We are children of God. I'd love to go into
• 29:39
  S7: Galatians where it talks about, you know, man, I've been
• 29:42
  S7: crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ
• 29:44
  S7: lives in me. And we're trying to label people by, oh, well, okay, well,
• 29:49
  S7: you're a, you're a pair or you're a spare. I mean,
• 29:52
  S7: all the weird platitudes we can get in the church. Yeah.
• 29:55
  S7: Let's just throw out some of those. Um, but anyway,
• 29:58
  S7: I literally had a woman at church mention that, so
• 30:01
  S7: I had to bring.
• 30:02
  S8: It up, you know? But I'm sorry.
• 30:04
  S7: Um, it's just, it's not the biggest thing about us.
• 30:07
  S7: And another thing that I think is, is, um, false
• 30:10
  S7: that so many singles buy into is this idea that
• 30:13
  S7: being single means being alone. And that's just not true
• 30:16
  S7: because not everyone is called to marriage, but everyone's called
• 30:19
  S7: to relationship. And so what does it look like for
• 30:21
  S7: us as singles to be pouring into community to be
• 30:24
  S7: looking for those who are holding us accountable, who we
• 30:28
  S7: have the opportunity to serve and give to. We're all
• 30:31
  S7: called to relationship, and sometimes I feel like singles can
• 30:34
  S7: do friendship even better than marrieds, because we have to
• 30:37
  S7: work so hard at it. So this idea that marriage,
• 30:40
  S7: you know. Well, I'm going to I'm going to grow
• 30:42
  S7: up once I get married, I'm going to actually serve others.
• 30:45
  S7: Once I get married, I will actually do important things
• 30:48
  S7: and be about things of the Lord when I get married.
• 30:51
  S7: That is nowhere in Scripture. Singles cannot get a pass
• 30:54
  S7: on that.
• 30:55
  S2: Love it. Lisa Anderson, our guest right now. Lisa, you
• 30:58
  S2: embody a metaphor. I'm going to give you to the
• 31:01
  S2: tee and I want to cheer for you. But I
• 31:04
  S2: was a singles pastor in little Rock, Arkansas many years ago.
• 31:08
  S2: And we it grew to 500 and it was a force.
• 31:11
  S2: First off, let me tell you this they were the
• 31:15
  S2: dominant share of volunteers in children's ministry, and they did
• 31:19
  S2: it shoulder to shoulder. It was a party every weekend.
• 31:22
  S2: It was a. They were a force to be reckoned with.
• 31:25
  S2: But this is what I told him all the time.
• 31:27
  S2: I said, listen, guys, if you're going to stand put.
• 31:30
  S2: Looking around, where is that special someone. You're missing out
• 31:35
  S2: on what God has in two ways. One is, you're
• 31:37
  S2: not getting on with the abundant life that God called
• 31:39
  S2: you to. And number two, if you're standing there looking
• 31:42
  S2: for someone that you ain't going to find the right one,
• 31:45
  S2: you got to get running toward the cross going. Hebrews
• 31:48
  S2: 12 here, set your eyes on Jesus. Run in such
• 31:51
  S2: a way as to win the prize. Because if you
• 31:54
  S2: look up while you're running toward the cross, that person
• 31:57
  S2: that's running stride for stride with you and you go, Shazam!
• 32:01
  S2: Look at her or look at him. That's that's the
• 32:06
  S2: that's the ticket, isn't it? Lisa, we got it. Let's
• 32:10
  S2: get going. Because who we're going to find on that path,
• 32:13
  S2: if God brings us one, that's the partner to find.
• 32:17
  S2: Speak to that for a little bit, because I see
• 32:19
  S2: a lot of singles get stuck in their singleness, looking
• 32:23
  S2: around rather than moving toward the cross.
• 32:26
  S7: Yeah, well, and I think that's something what you're talking
• 32:28
  S7: about is something that singles often forget, and that is
• 32:31
  S7: you can completely be sold out and rock out a
• 32:35
  S7: season of singleness and be serving and be loving others
• 32:39
  S7: and growing, unlike singles. Now is your time to get healthy.
• 32:44
  S7: Be that person. You know, again, healthy people attract healthy people.
• 32:48
  S7: So this is an opportunity for you to plug into
• 32:50
  S7: a church, get mentors, get a therapist, get a pastor
• 32:55
  S7: and his family alongside you, do all the things. And then,
• 32:59
  S7: but it's okay. You can rock out singleness and have
• 33:03
  S7: your hands open to marriage at the same time. We
• 33:06
  S7: think of it as this either or of like, oh, well,
• 33:08
  S7: I can't be. I can't show interest in other people
• 33:12
  S7: or act like I care about marriage or even desire
• 33:15
  S7: marriage or want to pray for marriage. You absolutely can.
• 33:18
  S7: If God has called you to marriage. You are supposed
• 33:21
  S7: to pursue that intentionally. I tell my young adult guys
• 33:24
  S7: you know who listen to me, I say, Proverbs 1822 says,
• 33:27
  S7: he who finds a wife, finds what is good and
• 33:30
  S7: will find favor with the Lord, not he who sits
• 33:33
  S7: around assessing women to see if they're good enough, and
• 33:36
  S7: then may ask them out on a non-date, you know,
• 33:38
  S7: to see what happens. So there's an intentionality to.
• 33:42
  S8: It that has to.
• 33:43
  S7: Happen. And you can do a both and you can
• 33:45
  S7: be healthy, you can be growing, you can be serving
• 33:48
  S7: the Lord. And that may transition into a marriage season.
• 33:51
  S7: When you, as you said, Carl, find that person who's
• 33:54
  S7: doing the exact same thing. And, and just the other
• 33:57
  S7: thing I want to highlight quickly is that this is
• 34:00
  S7: not like, again, an either or in the sense of like,
• 34:03
  S7: single people have to be completed or, you know, marriage
• 34:07
  S7: means that you've arrived or you're quote unquote marriage material.
• 34:12
  S7: I think we can agree, Carl and Ellie, that, um,
• 34:15
  S7: we know some unhealthy married people. So it's not like
• 34:18
  S7: God's putting a stamp of approval on you. Like you're okay.
• 34:21
  S7: You're worthy of marriage. So let's get it done. But
• 34:24
  S7: you single people. Lisa, sorry, you're still a project. Um,
• 34:28
  S7: God has something for all of us, and he's going
• 34:30
  S7: to use us, and we're responsible to steward those gifts.
• 34:34
  S3: Lisa Anderson, our guest right now. You know, it seems
• 34:37
  S3: that the dating landscape has changed quite a bit. The
• 34:40
  S3: the ability to kind of meet people organically, naturally seems
• 34:45
  S3: to fallen out, have fallen out of favor as so
• 34:47
  S3: much of our world is lived online in digital spaces.
• 34:52
  S3: How do you talk when you minister and speak with
• 34:55
  S3: young adults? How do you help them? Because it feels
• 34:58
  S3: like it's kind of full of landmines with all of
• 35:00
  S3: the swipe left and the online dating, how do people
• 35:03
  S3: meet good Christian people, even who are eligible to marry?
• 35:08
  S8: Well, where.
• 35:08
  S2: Are they, Lisa?
• 35:10
  S8: Where are they?
• 35:11
  S7: Here's why it's so telling. Anytime I talk to married
• 35:14
  S7: people and I talk about the dating scene or my
• 35:17
  S7: experiences in it. They're like, oh yeah, you know, if
• 35:20
  S7: something were to happen to my spouse, I a spouse,
• 35:22
  S7: I just couldn't do it. They're like, so they're so dejected.
• 35:26
  S7: They're just like, there's no hope for me. I wouldn't
• 35:28
  S7: be able to re-enter the dating scene. And there's some
• 35:31
  S7: truth to that because it's kind of like a free
• 35:32
  S7: for all. It's a little crazy. And you mentioned the
• 35:34
  S7: digital landscape and dating apps and all the things of like,
• 35:38
  S7: you feel like if you're going to go out for
• 35:40
  S7: coffee with someone, you better do a background check. You
• 35:43
  S7: better give them five compatibility tests. I mean, it's nuts.
• 35:47
  S7: I remember my mom, you know, my mom met my
• 35:50
  S7: dad at a Christian college, stalked him at a few
• 35:52
  S7: basketball games, went to a senior banquet and got married.
• 35:55
  S7: And she's like, Lisa, it's not that hard. Okay, what
• 35:58
  S7: are you doing? And I'm like, mom, it's super hard.
• 36:01
  S7: Trust me, it's super hard. So here's what I'm telling
• 36:04
  S7: young adults. I mean, I think first of all, we
• 36:06
  S7: have to pray. If you're not praying about who your
• 36:09
  S7: eventual mate is, you need to not even get started
• 36:12
  S7: because there, there is prayer that is needed around. One
• 36:16
  S7: of the most important decisions of your life. So just
• 36:20
  S7: start praying. Then you need to get a team around
• 36:22
  S7: you because dating is not a solo sport. You will
• 36:26
  S7: start dating someone, you will be totally into them and
• 36:28
  S7: you will lose your mind. Okay. You will not have objectivity.
• 36:32
  S7: You will think they are so amazing. You need people
• 36:34
  S7: who are going to help you look for potential matches, vets,
• 36:38
  S7: potential matches, bring up red flags, tell you when you're
• 36:42
  S7: acting crazy. And so that team is important. And here's
• 36:46
  S7: something aggressive that I say. I mention it in the
• 36:48
  S7: Dating manifesto, my book. I say you get three people
• 36:52
  S7: on your team who are truth tellers, who are going
• 36:54
  S7: to tell you what's straight. They have wisdom. They have discernment.
• 36:57
  S7: If all three of them agree that the person you're
• 36:59
  S7: dating is a loser, you cut it off, no questions asked.
• 37:03
  S7: You are going to rely on their wisdom because you
• 37:05
  S7: need it. Okay? Then you obviously want to become the
• 37:08
  S7: type of person you'd want to marry. That's a no brainer.
• 37:11
  S7: Grow into maturity. Figure out what your non-negotiables are. You
• 37:15
  S7: better be dating a person who's a disciple of Jesus
• 37:17
  S7: Christ and isn't just retweeting Francis Chan or some other pastor. Okay, um,
• 37:24
  S7: then you got to be willing to ask people out
• 37:25
  S7: and accept dates. Uh, this is like dating 101, y'all. Like,
• 37:29
  S7: and be willing to be set up. I'm a big
• 37:31
  S7: fan of the setup. Um, and then finally, you said
• 37:34
  S7: it first, Carl, go about your business and God's business
• 37:36
  S7: and see who's doing the same thing.
• 37:38
  S2: Boom. Lisa, you're on fire, sister. This is power. And
• 37:44
  S2: and I'll tell you my, the thrilling thing here is
• 37:49
  S2: if people, by the way, this accountability, you know, one
• 37:53
  S2: thing that we've lost in this fractured world that we
• 37:55
  S2: live in is not having close family, sometimes geographically near
• 38:00
  S2: us or people that love us. We've got to get
• 38:02
  S2: our posse around us. Because you're right, when we start dating,
• 38:06
  S2: especially if you start kissing. Oh.
• 38:09
  S9: Objectivity is hey, bye bye.
• 38:12
  S2: There goes objectivity. Oh, objectivity is gone. Oh, yeah. He's
• 38:15
  S2: a hunk of burning love. Well, he's got a rap
• 38:17
  S2: sheet a mile long and he's never repented of it. Oh,
• 38:20
  S2: but he's awesome. I mean, come on, people. So Lisa
• 38:25
  S2: is here to help you, and she has got some
• 38:27
  S2: amazing content. You'll find a link to The Dating Manifesto,
• 38:31
  S2: a drama free plan for pursuing marriage with a purpose,
• 38:35
  S2: and also tons of content on this one site. You
• 38:38
  S2: might want to hand this off gently to a son
• 38:42
  S2: or daughter or grandson or granddaughter. I don't know, how
• 38:44
  S2: do you do that? Well, by the way, Ali, this
• 38:46
  S2: link that we're going to send out.
• 38:48
  S3: You know, I always think carefully about how you share
• 38:51
  S3: these things. Yeah.
• 38:53
  S2: But if they know your heart.
• 38:54
  S3: And they.
• 38:54
  S2: Know your love.
• 38:55
  S3: Yeah, yeah. Yes. Share it with love and gently and
• 39:00
  S3: not with any sort of pressure. Yeah. Just text boundless
• 39:03
  S3: to 805, five, five, 78, 98 boundless to 805 five, five, 78, 98.
• 39:11
  S2: Yeah. That's great. Oh my goodness guys. Out of scarcity. Abundance.
• 39:20
  S2: Is it possible even in singleness? Yes. God is at work.
• 39:26
  S2: Let's get walking this running this path, this race of
• 39:30
  S2: faith and watch what God does.
• 39:33
  S1: Your spiritual pit stop to keep you going in the race.
• 39:37
  S1: You're listening to Carl and crew.
• 39:40
  S2: God did it. He sure did. Mike and Tyler, they're cheesy.
• 39:44
  S2: He's just singing the lyrics at Ali.
• 39:46
  S4: Ben Ali writes the songs.
• 39:50
  S10: I definitely she writes the songs that make the followers sing. Wow.
• 39:58
  S5: Wow. We're so sorry.
• 39:59
  S10: Give us a little morning. Give us a little bit,
• 40:02
  S10: a little.
• 40:02
  S4: Bit. You gotta give me some minutes and then I'll
• 40:04
  S4: get it to you.
• 40:05
  S10: Minutes.
• 40:06
  S4: Well, okay. Not like a minute. Give me.
• 40:08
  S10: I don't write.
• 40:09
  S3: Songs. I used to try to write some poetry.
• 40:12
  S10: Oh. Did you?
• 40:12
  S5: I could see that.
• 40:13
  S3: I wouldn't say they were great.
• 40:15
  S10: Oh, I bet they were good.
• 40:16
  S5: I agree.
• 40:17
  S3: With Carl.
• 40:18
  S5: They were.
• 40:18
  S3: They were simple, usually reflective. But no. No song lyrics.
• 40:22
  S4: Wow.
• 40:24
  S2: Were they? What were they like? What were they? What
• 40:27
  S2: was the topic?
• 40:28
  S3: Uh, my. The poetry.
• 40:30
  S10: Yeah.
• 40:30
  S3: Um, some of them were, uh, things that I'd read
• 40:34
  S3: in Scripture. So some of them were reflective on Scripture.
• 40:37
  S3: Some of them were just life experience stuff. There was
• 40:40
  S3: a I feel like there was a period of time
• 40:42
  S3: in my life where poems would come to me more easily.
• 40:46
  S5: I bet they were really good. Did you keep any of.
• 40:48
  S3: I did keep, yeah, I kept. I've got a little
• 40:50
  S3: book of.
• 40:51
  S2: Oh, well, you're coming in and reading someone.
• 40:53
  S3: No no no no no.
• 40:54
  S10: Are there two person.
• 40:55
  S5: Corner with Ali today?
• 40:57
  S10: Definitely don't think you want my little poems. Yeah.
• 41:02
  S2: A substitute songs for poems right here. I write the
• 41:06
  S2: songs of love and special things. Why is this song
• 41:11
  S2: sound so good to me?
• 41:12
  S11: It's a good song. Don't say old Ali. I won't.
• 41:15
  S11: Thank you.
• 41:16
  S5: Do you know who it is, Ali?
• 41:18
  S11: No, she didn't know. No, it's Barry Gibb. No. It's not.
• 41:23
  S4: Do you guys remember that?
• 41:24
  S5: It's not bad.
• 41:26
  S2: Oh, yeah, I do remember that.
• 41:28
  S3: What did.
• 41:28
  S5: I.
• 41:28
  S11: Miss?
• 41:29
  S4: It's okay. This was actually a day when Ali wasn't here. Uh,
• 41:32
  S4: we played this song a few months ago, and I
• 41:36
  S4: did not know that Barry Manilow and Barry Gibb were
• 41:38
  S4: two different people.
• 41:39
  S5: Oh, boy.
• 41:39
  S4: So I thought Barry Manilow was the guy from the
• 41:41
  S4: Bee Gees. And I was like, oh, he went solo
• 41:43
  S4: and he's got some range.
• 41:45
  S5: Oh.
• 41:47
  S2: And when he said this, the amount of tech support
• 41:50
  S2: in super di. How good was that?
• 41:52
  S5: I was laughing so hard. I was crying that morning.
• 41:55
  S5: I was like, okay, so this is Barry Manilow.
• 41:57
  S4: This is Barry.
• 41:58
  S5: Manilow.
• 41:59
  S3: Not to be confused with Barry Gibb Gibb.
• 42:01
  S4: Similar names, not similar styles.
• 42:03
  S2: Oh my goodness. We got to clear something up.
• 42:07
  S3: What's that?
• 42:09
  S2: Jesus is a profound teacher, correct?
• 42:14
  S3: Yes.
• 42:15
  S2: No question about that. Right. Most people would agree.
• 42:18
  S4: Yeah. Even unbelievers would say that.
• 42:19
  S2: Yeah. I mean, he was a phenomenally clear communicator. As
• 42:24
  S2: a matter of fact, a lot of what Jesus spoke
• 42:25
  S2: in the sermon on the Mount governs our morals and
• 42:27
  S2: ethics to this day. He undergirded, spiked, and even raised
• 42:32
  S2: the bar in the sermon on the Mount, on the
• 42:34
  S2: Old Testament Law, and made it inescapable that there's no
• 42:38
  S2: way of achieving those things apart from God's power. But
• 42:41
  S2: here's the question did Jesus ever really say he was God?
• 42:49
  S2: And even if he did, what kind of claim does
• 42:53
  S2: he have to that role? Coming up, special guest Doctor
• 42:58
  S2: Del Rosario with us in studio to answer that question
• 43:02
  S2: and more about the claims of Jesus.
• 43:04
  S1: Hang on your shot of hope to get you through
• 43:07
  S1: the day.
• 43:08
  S5: You are so, so loved. God does not want you
• 43:11
  S5: to stay in your past. And I want you to
• 43:13
  S5: know and believe that today.
• 43:15
  S1: You're listening to Carl and crew standing on the rock
• 43:19
  S1: each and every day. You're listening to Carl and Crew.
• 43:24
  S2: Never forget the first time I heard the word apologetics.
• 43:28
  S2: And I thought, wow, is that a guy that apologizes
• 43:31
  S2: a lot? It's Carl here with Carl and crew. And, uh,
• 43:35
  S2: we have got a treat for you today. I was
• 43:38
  S2: at Sand Lake Baptist Church. I first heard the apologetics.
• 43:41
  S2: I must have been in third or fourth grade, and
• 43:43
  S2: I thought, that's a guy that apologizes a lot. That's
• 43:45
  S2: what he does.
• 43:46
  S3: Alli it definitely not. Doctor Mikel Del Rosario in studio
• 43:51
  S3: with us teaches apologetics, philosophy, ethics and Bible classes here
• 43:55
  S3: at Moody Bible Institute. Author of a new book out.
• 43:58
  S3: Did Jesus really say he was God making sense of
• 44:01
  S3: his historical claims?
• 44:03
  S2: Well, you don't apologize, but you do explain for the
• 44:06
  S2: hope that's within you. Right, my man?
• 44:08
  S12: That's right. Explaining our faith with courage and compassion. That's
• 44:11
  S12: how I define apologetics.
• 44:12
  S2: I love that. Okay. Why? I'm just going to jump
• 44:16
  S2: into the deep end right here. Why tackle the question?
• 44:20
  S2: Did Jesus really say he was God? Why? What's the
• 44:24
  S2: why behind it?
• 44:26
  S12: There's a huge need right now for this. I've had
• 44:28
  S12: so many personal conversations where people ask, why should we
• 44:31
  S12: believe Jesus is God if he never said he was God?
• 44:34
  S12: We have friends from Muslim communities and Jehovah's Witnesses and
• 44:39
  S12: other people who wonder, where in the Bible does Jesus
• 44:42
  S12: say He's God? And then other people who wonder, maybe
• 44:44
  S12: the Bible says it, but how do we know that's
• 44:45
  S12: really history? And Ligonier Ministries did a study showing 43%
• 44:50
  S12: of people who even say they are evangelical Christians and
• 44:53
  S12: go to church regularly agreed with the statement, Jesus was
• 44:56
  S12: a great teacher, but he was not God.
• 44:58
  S9: Wow.
• 44:58
  S12: 43%.
• 45:00
  S13: That's staggering.
• 45:01
  S12: So there's a huge need for this right now, because
• 45:03
  S12: Christians can easily be led astray or begin to doubt
• 45:06
  S12: when they read critical scholars saying, the Bible is not
• 45:08
  S12: giving us real history.
• 45:09
  S3: Okay, so then what? What do we know about Jesus's
• 45:13
  S3: claims about himself? Both obviously from Scripture, but also from
• 45:16
  S3: other historical sources?
• 45:18
  S12: Yeah. Well, in my book, I do look at sources
• 45:20
  S12: outside Scripture, but I like to zoom in to two
• 45:22
  S12: particular scenes, one in Mark two and 1 in 14,
• 45:25
  S12: because in Mark chapter two, the healing of the paralytic,
• 45:27
  S12: Jesus is forgiving sins. He says to the paralytic, son,
• 45:31
  S12: your sins are forgiven. The scribes who are listening are
• 45:33
  S12: the theologians in the audience. They understood he was making
• 45:35
  S12: himself too close to God. Taking God's prerogatives for himself.
• 45:39
  S12: He's speaking like God does. He's acting like God does.
• 45:42
  S12: They think, why is he talking like that? He's blaspheming.
• 45:44
  S12: Who can forgive sins but God alone? And then Jesus says,
• 45:47
  S12: so that you may know that the Son of Man
• 45:49
  S12: has authority on earth to forgive sins, and he heals
• 45:51
  S12: the man. He says to the man, get up and walk.
• 45:53
  S12: And when the man gets up and walks, it shows
• 45:55
  S12: everyone that Jesus, the Son of Man, does have authority
• 45:58
  S12: to forgive sins. And so this is really Jesus pointing
• 46:02
  S12: to his divine authority. It's not just a human claim,
• 46:05
  S12: it's a divine claim. And he does a similar thing
• 46:07
  S12: in Mark 14 as well. But that's just one one
• 46:09
  S12: key text.
• 46:10
  S2: Love it. Doctor Michael del Rosario with us right now.
• 46:13
  S2: Why do you believe there is a relative absence of
• 46:18
  S2: direct claims that Jesus himself is God from Jesus's mouth?
• 46:24
  S12: Well, we have very high elevated claims in the Gospel
• 46:27
  S12: of John, where Jesus says things like, I and the
• 46:29
  S12: father are one. Before Abraham was, I am, and the
• 46:32
  S12: Jews who are listening pick up stones to stone him.
• 46:34
  S12: But for some people they'll say, well, John was written
• 46:37
  S12: last way out in the 80s or the 90s. And
• 46:40
  S12: so how come we don't see any hint of a
• 46:41
  S12: divine claim in the earlier Gospels, in the Synoptics? And
• 46:44
  S12: that's why in my book, I tackle the gospel of Mark,
• 46:46
  S12: because that's the earliest gospel to be written. As far
• 46:49
  S12: as you know, the majority of scholars believe that that's
• 46:50
  S12: the earliest gospel written. So I show that right in Mark,
• 46:54
  S12: you have Jesus claiming deity by showing what he does
• 46:58
  S12: and by speaking like God does. And so this is
• 47:02
  S12: not an explicit claim. Like Muslims will say, why don't
• 47:05
  S12: we see God? Jesus saying, I am God. But he
• 47:09
  S12: didn't claim to be God the Father, and he wasn't
• 47:11
  S12: claiming to be a rival deity to God the Father.
• 47:13
  S12: He was showing his divine authority by what he was doing.
• 47:16
  S12: His talk is potentially cheap. Just Jesus was showing that
• 47:20
  S12: he was speaking like God does, forgiving sin and acting
• 47:22
  S12: like God does healing. Psalm 103 says, God is the
• 47:25
  S12: one who heals and forgives.
• 47:27
  S2: Yeah. And I'm wondering if that's that direct line or
• 47:30
  S2: dotted line, because in Mark eight, I've been recently in
• 47:34
  S2: this text here, and he asks Peter and the disciples,
• 47:39
  S2: who do you say that I am? And others had
• 47:41
  S2: already been saying, John the Baptist, he's a prophet, he's Elijah.
• 47:45
  S2: He says, but no, but who do you say that
• 47:47
  S2: I am? And and Peter responds, you are the Christ.
• 47:51
  S2: There would have been no disconnect between the messiahship of
• 47:56
  S2: Jesus and the father for that audience. Would there have been. Doc?
• 48:02
  S12: Well, he says, you are the Christ of God, or
• 48:04
  S12: you are the Christ, the son of the living God. Well,
• 48:06
  S12: who sends the Messiah? It's God. Yeah. And so when
• 48:09
  S12: Jesus is before Caiaphas in Mark 14 and they say,
• 48:13
  S12: just tell us straight right now, are you the Christ?
• 48:16
  S12: Are you the Son of God? And Jesus says, I am.
• 48:19
  S12: And you will see the Son of Man seated at
• 48:21
  S12: the right hand of the power and coming with the
• 48:23
  S12: clouds of heaven. Jesus is being very explicit here talking
• 48:26
  S12: about the Son of Man. Always uses it like a
• 48:28
  S12: title with the Son of Man. And he's alluding to
• 48:31
  S12: Daniel seven, where one like a son of man, this
• 48:34
  S12: human being looks like a human being, but he also
• 48:35
  S12: has divine characteristics. He's riding the clouds like a deity does.
• 48:39
  S12: All the world's nations will worship him and his kingdom
• 48:41
  S12: will be unstoppable. Who is this guy? Jesus is connecting
• 48:44
  S12: that to Psalm 110, where he's seated at the right
• 48:47
  S12: hand of God. That's God's viceregent he has authority in
• 48:51
  S12: heaven to judge sins. And so when Caiaphas hears this,
• 48:54
  S12: he's like, we are God's representatives on planet earth, and
• 48:57
  S12: you're going to judge us. Who are you? How dare you?
• 49:00
  S12: That's the whole vibe I get in this scene. So
• 49:02
  S12: when you put these two things together, Jesus is claiming
• 49:05
  S12: to have authority on earth to forgive sins and in
• 49:08
  S12: heaven to judge sins. This is authority in heaven and
• 49:11
  S12: on earth over all of reality. This is what it
• 49:13
  S12: means to be divine, to be on the creator side
• 49:16
  S12: of the creator. Creature divide.
• 49:18
  S3: Doctor Mikel del Rosario with us right now, the book
• 49:21
  S3: is called Did Jesus Really Say He Was God? How
• 49:24
  S3: do historians investigate the claims of Jesus? They're not likely
• 49:30
  S3: to look first to the Christian Bible. Where are they looking?
• 49:34
  S12: Well, they would look outside the Christian Bible. For some
• 49:37
  S12: who want to start with the existence of Jesus. For example,
• 49:41
  S12: the Jewish historian Josephus, writing in the first century about
• 49:45
  S12: the Jewish role in Jesus death shortly after that, about 180.
• 49:48
  S12: You get Tacitus, who's a Roman historian, who's writing about
• 49:51
  S12: the Roman role in Jesus death. Both of them put
• 49:53
  S12: it under Pontius Pilate. And the time that Pontius Pilate
• 49:56
  S12: was the procurator of Judea. But this is really just
• 49:59
  S12: an invitation to look at the text itself, because even
• 50:02
  S12: atheist scholars and Jewish scholars know that Ground Zero for
• 50:05
  S12: talking about Jesus is the New Testament, the writings of
• 50:07
  S12: Paul and the Gospels. And so what they would do
• 50:11
  S12: then is say, are there things that help us increase
• 50:13
  S12: the probability that these things in the Bible really happened?
• 50:16
  S12: Even if a Jewish scholar doesn't believe it's the Word
• 50:18
  S12: of God? And something like multiple attestation is what they
• 50:22
  S12: call corroboration is the name of the game. So there's
• 50:24
  S12: a rule called multiple attestation. Can we find Jesus saying
• 50:28
  S12: things like this in more than one story, there's a
• 50:30
  S12: multiple attestation of theme that Jesus was known as a
• 50:33
  S12: miracle worker. For example, so many stories of Jesus healing people,
• 50:36
  S12: healing lame people. When John's disciples came to Jesus, Jesus made.
• 50:41
  S12: He said, go back and tell John what you've heard
• 50:43
  S12: and seen the lame walk. And so historians will say, okay,
• 50:46
  S12: there's all over the tradition. Jesus known as a miracle worker,
• 50:50
  S12: Jesus healing lame people saying, your sins are forgiven. In
• 50:53
  S12: Luke seven, he tells the lady with the alabaster jar,
• 50:55
  S12: your sins are forgiven. So even those who say, I
• 50:58
  S12: don't believe the Bible is the Word of God. They
• 51:00
  S12: might say, you know what? There's probably something historical here,
• 51:02
  S12: because there's so much in the tradition about Jesus being
• 51:05
  S12: known as a miracle worker and forgiving sins.
• 51:07
  S2: You know, Michael, I gotta tell you, it's I wonder
• 51:12
  S2: if probably how do I word this? One of the
• 51:15
  S2: big hiccups with the deity of Christ is that he
• 51:20
  S2: was fully human. And I know it was a hiccup
• 51:23
  S2: for some. And maybe as today, because in Mark six,
• 51:27
  S2: it talks about Jesus going into Nazareth and what tripped
• 51:31
  S2: up the all of these nazarites was that they hung.
• 51:38
  S2: They knew his sisters, they knew his brothers from the text,
• 51:41
  S2: and they knew his mom and dad. And they're like,
• 51:44
  S2: we know them. Isn't that funny that they rejected the
• 51:48
  S2: very miracles and workings of Jesus, and he couldn't do
• 51:53
  S2: much there. The text says, because his humanity, or I
• 51:57
  S2: should say those around him and his family got in
• 52:00
  S2: the way of his deity.
• 52:01
  S12: Yeah. We need to be able to defend both the
• 52:03
  S12: full deity of Jesus and the full humanity of Jesus. Interestingly,
• 52:07
  S12: throughout church history, there was a time where people actually
• 52:09
  S12: had to make an apologetic or a defense for Jesus humanity,
• 52:13
  S12: because some people said, well, maybe he's a spiritual being,
• 52:15
  S12: but he's not actually human. And today it's actually flipped
• 52:18
  S12: where a lot of people are, are like, well, sure,
• 52:21
  S12: he was a real human being. I can go there
• 52:23
  S12: with you. But was he more than a man? How
• 52:25
  S12: do you believe he's actually God Almighty? And so we
• 52:27
  S12: have to be able to defend both that Jesus is
• 52:29
  S12: fully God and fully man.
• 52:31
  S3: Interesting this shift. I'm curious, what do you what do
• 52:34
  S3: you think accounts for that shift to where it used
• 52:37
  S3: to be, proving that he actually was man, and now
• 52:40
  S3: it's proving that he's actually God?
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  S12: Well, I think in the ancient world, people understood there
• 52:45
  S12: is a supernatural world behind just what we can see.
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  S12: And today, with with naturalism, people are less likely to
• 52:53
  S12: start there, especially when you're talking about critical scholars doing history.
• 52:57
  S12: There's a suspicion of supernatural things. And so even just
• 53:00
  S12: to start with, the humanity of Jesus sometimes is a
• 53:02
  S12: is a hurdle. But once people get there now the
• 53:05
  S12: question is, who did Jesus claim to be? And is
• 53:07
  S12: there evidence that he was one claiming to be God,
• 53:10
  S12: and two, that he rose from the dead to prove it?
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  S3: The short answer is yes and yes.
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  S12: Spoiler alert. Yes.
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  S2: What does it matter? No, no. Let's put it to
• 53:20
  S2: the let's put it this to the great promise and
• 53:22
  S2: the hope when we see Jesus as really God, how
• 53:27
  S2: does that impact our day to day life?
• 53:29
  S12: Wow, what a huge question. As I was doing my
• 53:31
  S12: study writing this book, this really impacted me because Jesus
• 53:35
  S12: is either Lord of all or he's not Lord at all.
• 53:38
  S12: And so when we say Jesus is Lord, it should
• 53:41
  S12: remind us first of all, Lord Kurios in the Greek.
• 53:44
  S12: That is how the Old Testament translated into Greek in
• 53:47
  S12: the Septuagint, how they translated the divine name Yahweh. So
• 53:51
  S12: when we say Jesus is Lord, that means Jesus is
• 53:53
  S12: Yahweh God. And so what areas of my life as
• 53:56
  S12: a Christian do I still have to fully give over
• 53:58
  S12: to the Lordship of Jesus? Maybe this area or that area?
• 54:02
  S12: And daily I need to be reminding myself Jesus is
• 54:05
  S12: Lord over all of my life. And if Jesus can
• 54:08
  S12: forgive sins, if he has the authority on earth to
• 54:10
  S12: forgive sins like he says in Mark two, that's a
• 54:13
  S12: major step in coming to faith, isn't it? You have
• 54:15
  S12: to believe that Jesus has the authority to forgive your sins.
• 54:18
  S12: And Peter, on the day of Pentecost says, everyone who
• 54:20
  S12: calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.
• 54:22
  S12: He's quoting Joel. Then he calls Jesus Lord. He says,
• 54:25
  S12: Jesus is the Lord. You need to call upon for
• 54:27
  S12: the forgiveness of your sins. And 3000 people got saved.
• 54:29
  S12: It's the heart of the gospel. It's who Jesus is.
• 54:32
  S12: And it challenges us as Christians to.
• 54:34
  S3: The book is called did Jesus really say he was
• 54:36
  S3: God making sense of his historical claims? Our guest also
• 54:40
  S3: host a weekly podcast called The Apologetics Guy. You can
• 54:44
  S3: check both out. Just text Guy to 805 557898GUY. Just
• 54:50
  S3: spell it out guy to 805 557898.