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Book Club - Weather: A Novel · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and SMITHA and a loup of stuff
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Speaker 1: I've never told you are production by Her Radio.
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Speaker 2: And for this edition a Feminist Book Club, we are
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Speaker 2: doing an environmental slash, kind of apocalypse, kind of survival theme.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, survivalist theme. Like, there's a lot of things.
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Speaker 2: There's a lot of dark themes, speaking of which there
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Speaker 2: are some mentions of death, end of times.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't think of anything else.
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Speaker 2: I was very pleasantly surprised that the dog did not die,
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Speaker 2: So I was very scared of that.
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Speaker 1: I love that because you're what the content warnings you're
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Speaker 1: giving is preparing people for something completely different than what it.
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Speaker 3: Is I think.
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Speaker 1: But you're right that they're in there. You're not wrong,
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Speaker 1: I would say. I would also add like mental health.
1:01
Speaker 1: There's a lot of mental.
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Speaker 3: Heal health and addiction. There's definitely.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so a lot of the things is very like
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Speaker 2: I feel like it's my mind. But anyway, we're talking
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Speaker 2: about the book Whether a novel by Jenny affhil So.
1:14
Speaker 2: The book was a seven year process apparently, and it's
1:17
Speaker 2: like a before and after reaction to the election of
1:21
Speaker 2: Donald Trump. So I was like, yeah, okay, this makes
1:25
Speaker 2: in that context, this book makes a lot of sense
1:28
Speaker 2: and according to this is according to several different accounts
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Speaker 2: about this book. For the book, off Phil took the
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Speaker 2: time to research the climate crisis for the novel, Like
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Speaker 2: she gets pretty technical and scientific and a few things,
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Speaker 2: but like not over the top where it feels like,
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Speaker 2: you know, it's too much. It doesn't feel sci fi.
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Speaker 2: I'll say that although I was looking for a sci
1:49
Speaker 2: fi book originally, this is technically kind of hmm.
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Speaker 1: I feel like we did the sci fi thing with.
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Speaker 2: The movie okay maybe, but it was like it was
2:01
Speaker 2: under that categories.
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Speaker 3: I was like, okay, we'll do that anyway. Back to it.
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Speaker 1: Cli Fi, that's what you called it, cli Fi, That's
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Speaker 1: what they called it.
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Speaker 3: I was very surprised. I was like, that's a name.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's cli Fi and it's there's I did not know,
2:13
Speaker 2: and I'm like, well now now I know. Anyway, so
2:16
Speaker 2: back to this, uh. For the book again, she did
2:18
Speaker 2: do that research, which I feel like with her research
2:22
Speaker 2: it does the happinesses, the halplessness, the helplessness, both of
2:27
Speaker 2: those things kind of like makes sense. With that as
2:31
Speaker 2: well as the fact that she looked into survivalists and
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Speaker 2: climate activists and groups, and she actually I think joined
2:37
Speaker 2: and participated with the Extension Rebellion, which is a environmental
2:41
Speaker 2: group in the uk UH that participates nonviolent protests, civil protests,
2:46
Speaker 2: civil action is what it says. So I was like, oh, okay,
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Speaker 2: like she went, she went in. She also had two
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Speaker 2: other names for this book, learning to Die, and I
2:55
Speaker 2: was like, you know what, that's actually a really fitting title.
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Speaker 2: I like the title whether, but I feel like learning
3:00
Speaker 2: to Die made more sense.
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Speaker 1: Yeah again, listeners, you're gonna we're going to talk about it.
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Speaker 2: But.
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Speaker 1: What you think IMT is not.
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Speaker 2: And then the other book other title was American Weather,
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Speaker 2: and because during everything that was happening with the US
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Speaker 2: anything titled American, she was.
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Speaker 3: Like, I don't want it to be associated like that.
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Speaker 2: So I was like, yes, but I could see where
3:24
Speaker 2: she was coming with that as well, because there's a
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Speaker 2: line in there about American weather. So with all that,
3:31
Speaker 2: with the style of this book, we're going to just
3:34
Speaker 2: do a quick summary and explain her with like, I
3:36
Speaker 2: want to give you the details of the characters first,
3:39
Speaker 2: and then kind of how they relate in the book,
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Speaker 2: because everything is.
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Speaker 3: Chaotic. I feel like that's the best way to explain.
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Speaker 2: It still comes in the timeline, but it feels chaotic
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Speaker 2: because she I feel like she writes like I do
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Speaker 2: and also thinks like I do in that way of
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Speaker 2: like it's just constant thought and that thought overlaps with
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Speaker 2: a thought of that thought because.
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Speaker 3: It just spirals.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, where it started from point a and then went
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Speaker 2: into number three.
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Speaker 1: A point a to number three.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, she it's definitely. I don't think stream
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Speaker 1: of consciousness is quite accurate, but it's it's very much
4:17
Speaker 1: like there'll be a short paragraph and then a longer
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Speaker 1: one and then another short one, and they're just kind
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Speaker 1: of like random thoughts. Well they're not random, they're they're related,
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Speaker 1: but they kind of feel like, oh, where did this
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Speaker 1: come from? And if you think about it, you can see.
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Speaker 3: Where it came from the lineage.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, but it it was when I was reading it,
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Speaker 1: I was like, this is a hard book to describe.
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Speaker 3: Right, That's what it was like.
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Speaker 1: At the This is like a feeling almost, it's a thought.
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Speaker 2: It's constant thought, and I've had these thoughts. Yeah, no,
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Speaker 2: especially older. I was like, oh yeah, yeah, so we'll
4:55
Speaker 2: go ahead and jump into it again if you haven't
4:57
Speaker 2: read this. This came out in twenty twenty, so spoiler alert,
5:03
Speaker 2: and it's a very very short book, to the point
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Speaker 2: that people were like, it's almost not even a novella,
5:07
Speaker 2: it's so short. So if you want to go read it.
5:10
Speaker 2: It is available on different platforms if you can get
5:12
Speaker 2: it through your library through Lee FM. We have proteconist
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Speaker 2: Lizzie Benson, a librarian who has all the rambling, anxious
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Speaker 2: thoughts that I feel like I think most of us do,
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Speaker 2: especially now, especially as are considering things and what to
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Speaker 2: do and how to do things. She is our main
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Speaker 2: voice in this entirety and thoughts. We have her husband, Ben,
5:37
Speaker 2: so I guess maybe his name is Ben Benson, which
5:39
Speaker 2: is an interesting name, who is a PhD classic educator
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Speaker 2: that cannot find a job in his field, so he
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Speaker 2: goes into it. Their son, Eli, a young kid who
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Speaker 2: seems way more worldly than necessary, even calling out his
5:54
Speaker 2: mom saying like, are you sure you're my mom? Because
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Speaker 2: you don't feel like you're not good enough to be
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Speaker 2: my mom, which I was like, bat home, and so
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Speaker 2: I was like, well that's I mean. Her brother, Henry,
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Speaker 2: who is a recovering addict trying to live a normal life,
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Speaker 2: but is very fearful and codependent on Lizzie very much.
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Speaker 2: So we have Sylvia, an old professor who helped Lizzie
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Speaker 2: get her job even though Lizzie didn't have a degree
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Speaker 2: at the library. Is also a successful podcaster I know.
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Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I didn't even know this talking
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Speaker 2: about the climate crisis. Catherine, who is Henry the brother's
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Speaker 2: partner because he like we meet her as they meet
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Speaker 2: in their life and end of relationship, like it goes
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Speaker 2: all the way through. And we also have Will, a
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Speaker 2: war reporter who has a special friendship with Lizzie.
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Speaker 3: I leave it with that.
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Speaker 2: So in the book, we read the different thoughts that
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Speaker 2: seem to plague Lizzie as a woman, a wife, a neighbor,
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Speaker 2: a coworker, a sister, a mother, a daughter, a librarian,
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Speaker 2: and an overall concerned human like you see all the
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Speaker 2: aspects of like, oh.
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Speaker 3: My god, I'm failing all here.
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Speaker 2: Through it, we find out that she has concerns as
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Speaker 2: a parent interacting with other parents, which I love those
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Speaker 2: conversations going like yeah, I do that not necessarily with parents,
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Speaker 2: but like clients and such like I gotta avoid talking
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Speaker 2: to them or how do I talk to them?
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Speaker 3: Or how do I do these things?
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Speaker 2: Survival instincts, avoiding certain neighbors, especially with them being somewhat racist,
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Speaker 2: even though they would say they're not racist, but they're racist.
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Speaker 2: Trying to figure out could she survive in the end times,
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Speaker 2: which I thought was hilarious because she talks about using
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Speaker 2: gum as bait. Yeah I'm gonna remember that, by the way.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, that stuck out to me too.
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Speaker 3: I was like, oh, okay, okay.
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Speaker 2: Her brother is slowly recovering from his addiction. He started
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Speaker 2: a new job writing greeting cards, where he meets Catherine,
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Speaker 2: a very proactive person who is all about action, so
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Speaker 2: kind of the opposite of who he is, which is
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Speaker 2: kind of a concern for him. Who Lizzie is like,
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Speaker 2: you don't want to date your same person, difference is great,
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Speaker 2: And she talks about her and her relationship with Ben
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Speaker 2: and how they're different and how they ask each other
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Speaker 2: questions and everything is a nice little surprise, and then
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Speaker 2: with that they decide to get married, and then they
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Speaker 2: decide to have a baby. During this time, Henry is
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Speaker 2: struggling with a lot of dark thoughts about the baby,
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Speaker 2: dying like a lot of dark thoughts, and I'm like, oh,
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Speaker 2: I think parents go through those, but it got especially
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Speaker 2: dark of like he's talking about shredding the baby pieces
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Speaker 2: he's counseling, which eventually leads him to cheating on his
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Speaker 2: wife and therefore leading to them getting divorced, and he
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Speaker 2: gets supervised time with the baby Iris, who happens to
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Speaker 2: be Lizzy. Lizzie's become the rock for them, as well
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Speaker 2: as her mom as well, who is very religious, talking
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Speaker 2: about Holler activities, and he does relapse during this time,
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Speaker 2: but then he comes back and he goes and lives
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Speaker 2: at Lizzie's home. Ben is one who her husband thinks
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Speaker 2: about death as well, quite often thinks about the death
8:45
Speaker 2: of his family. Essentially, he talks about it constantly, but
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Speaker 2: also a great person is to balance Lizzie when she
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Speaker 2: gets off kilter as well, so they kind of do
8:54
Speaker 2: this back and forth, although he does get frustrated with
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Speaker 2: Henry living there because he is not a good roommate
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Speaker 2: as she puts it, as well as the darkness of
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Speaker 2: it all and again the end times about whether or
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Speaker 2: not how they can survive, what they should have, what
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Speaker 2: they shouldn't have, At one point they talk about lighters.
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Speaker 2: Having one hundred lighters is better than having one generator
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Speaker 2: because generators make too much noise and you can trade lighters.
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Speaker 2: So they had those type of conversations, and then we
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Speaker 2: have Eli, who's someone who questions a lot. I also
9:23
Speaker 2: likes to invent a lot, but also says, don't look
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Speaker 2: at what I'm inventing because you'll steal it, and I
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Speaker 2: need to have it for myself, but also wants to
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Speaker 2: be friends with people, and so he tries to get
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Speaker 2: his mom to do more so he can be friends
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Speaker 2: with one specific girl. It finally works awkward interactions, and
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Speaker 2: he's somewhat independent but dependent on his mother's an interesting dichotomy,
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Speaker 2: but also gets frustrated with her, like calling her out
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Speaker 2: for her getting on to him for losing a lunch
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Speaker 2: box and he's like, are you are you my mother?
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Speaker 2: Because you don't seem to be good enough to be
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Speaker 2: my mother. I'm like, well, damn well, damn me, Lie,
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Speaker 2: that seems unnecessary. But also she he breaks the rules
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Speaker 2: so he doesn't cry, and it's not sad a lot
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Speaker 2: so like for him, So all these things. Lizzie is
10:07
Speaker 2: soon offered a job assisting Sylvia, who is whose podcast
10:10
Speaker 2: Helen high Water has become successful and there's in need
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Speaker 2: of assistance, answering the email and going out on different trips.
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Speaker 2: I felt like this was you in a little bit,
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Speaker 2: Annie in that, like she was trying to take all
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Speaker 2: the mean messages or dark messages or sad messages because
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Speaker 2: it was really affecting Sylvia and actually was affecting Lizzie too,
10:30
Speaker 2: but it just kept her on like thought trains as
10:34
Speaker 2: or Sylvia was really collapsing, like I can't take this.
10:38
Speaker 2: Also her interacting with tech dudes, which she really, really
10:41
Speaker 2: really hated, so the broad of questions started getting to
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Speaker 2: Sylvia as well as Lizzie, which eventually leads Lizzie to
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Speaker 2: stop answering Sylvia's calls and Sylvia going off the grid
10:53
Speaker 2: to get away from it all, including the insufferable tech
10:56
Speaker 2: pros and in the world questions and dudes coming up,
10:59
Speaker 2: being like I have a Russian and a statement.
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Speaker 3: I love that moment, and I'm like, yeah, that's about right.
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Speaker 2: She meets Will, who seems interesting based on his own
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Speaker 2: attitudes towards war and endings, and then though they never
11:12
Speaker 2: go beyond dreams and talking, she does find some comfort
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Speaker 2: in his company while Ben and Eli are visiting Ben's
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Speaker 2: sister because Ben is now frustrated and needs to get
11:21
Speaker 2: out of the house because there's too much happening. Yeah,
11:25
Speaker 2: but nothing be goes of it. Will has kind of
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Speaker 2: like disappeared, probably going off to more war reporting.
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Speaker 3: So in the end, everything goes on as normal. End
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Speaker 3: of story. Yes, so there you go again.
11:42
Speaker 2: I'm not putting to justice, and I've left out several
11:45
Speaker 2: key characters in here, including the driver that she called
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Speaker 2: in because she feels guilty that he's going to lose
11:50
Speaker 2: his business if she stops using his service, even though
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Speaker 2: it is very inconvenient. So all those different things a
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Speaker 2: lot of good things. How did you feel about this
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Speaker 2: book any.
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Speaker 1: I felt like I was reading someone else's diary that
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Speaker 1: I could relate to very closely, because it is a
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Speaker 1: very It is like jumping from here to here, to
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Speaker 1: hear to hear, but you can trace where all of
12:20
Speaker 1: it is going. I guess my overall takeaway from the
12:25
Speaker 1: book is this feeling that I have, and I think
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Speaker 1: a lot of us have, that there's just a lot
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Speaker 1: we can't control, and like learning how to die whatever
12:38
Speaker 1: the original title is like what do you do when
12:42
Speaker 1: you feel like everything's ending but you have to go
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Speaker 1: on as normal. It reminds me of I had to
12:51
Speaker 1: write this report on a French book in college called
12:55
Speaker 1: The Stranger and at the end, like all this horrible
12:58
Speaker 1: stuff happens, and at the end and the guy looks
13:02
Speaker 1: at his watch and it's like, oh, it's one PM
13:04
Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, because it's a man made structure in
13:07
Speaker 1: the world continues and you have to keep going even
13:11
Speaker 1: though all of this horrible stuff has happened and continues
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Speaker 1: to happen. So I don't want to make this sound
13:21
Speaker 1: dismissive at all, but this book was like a feeling
13:23
Speaker 1: to me. It was like a five yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it.
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Speaker 2: Is it definitely. It gets into like that monotony. Yeah,
13:34
Speaker 2: but the monotony.
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Speaker 1: Is hair, yeah, and like your relationships and like as
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Speaker 1: you get older, you are talking about death more and
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Speaker 1: you are thinking about like, well, I guess gum my.
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Speaker 2: Use is the thing you and I've talked about, Well
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Speaker 2: what could we contribute, which was one of the conversations
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Speaker 2: she has with will if the end of times?
14:00
Speaker 3: What do you bring? She's like, I can tell stories.
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Speaker 2: I'm really great at that, Like she starts off with that,
14:06
Speaker 2: but I think like my partner and I've talked about
14:08
Speaker 2: what would it look like going out the grid, how
14:10
Speaker 2: do we prepare? We've talked about solars We've talked about generators,
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Speaker 2: We've talked about leaving where the best areas is.
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Speaker 3: For possible survival, all those different things.
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Speaker 2: Like, there's definitely that depth of conversation about what happens
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Speaker 2: when the government, if the government.
14:28
Speaker 3: Becomes a dictatorship.
14:29
Speaker 2: As we're slowly maybe seeing what she's talking about in.
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Speaker 1: Scenes first Donald Trump, she's reacting to not current.
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Speaker 3: No, and I'm sure our books have gotten even darker.
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Speaker 2: We're going to talk about the many themes because there's
14:54
Speaker 2: tons of things we're gonna pull out on here. I
14:57
Speaker 2: did we did want to put some quotes in here,
14:59
Speaker 2: and we'll tell feel about it. It's a little a
15:03
Speaker 2: little bit out of context. But at the same time,
15:05
Speaker 2: the context is not always necessary with this book because
15:10
Speaker 2: she tells jokes. She tells riddles a lot in here,
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Speaker 2: Like a little jokes about a man and so and
15:16
Speaker 2: so came into a bar type of conversation.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and then she was kind of like the insets
15:22
Speaker 1: of the like what does this mean like like a
15:25
Speaker 1: QA almost Oh yeah, so yeah. I mean a lot
15:29
Speaker 1: of things could be taken out of context with this book.
15:33
Speaker 2: So one of the big things obviously is doom. Yeah,
15:37
Speaker 2: that's one thing. And this is the quote there's a
15:39
Speaker 2: period after every disaster in which people wonder around trying
15:42
Speaker 2: to figure out if it's truly a disaster. Disaster psychologists
15:46
Speaker 2: use the term at milling to describe most people's default
15:49
Speaker 2: actions when they find themselves in frightening new situations. So
15:54
Speaker 2: like being in the middle of it, which I feel
15:55
Speaker 2: like you don't realize you're in the middle of it
15:59
Speaker 2: because is coming.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I think we've talked about this a
16:06
Speaker 1: lot before in our trauma episodes, plenty of episodes. But
16:11
Speaker 1: I think when something bad happens, a lot of us
16:15
Speaker 1: have a I do. I have a processing period of
16:20
Speaker 1: I don't know how bad it is yet, So I
16:23
Speaker 1: don't know how bad whatever has happened. It could get
16:27
Speaker 1: worse what I'm thinking it is, or maybe it's not
16:31
Speaker 1: as bad as I think it is. But there is
16:33
Speaker 1: that period where you're kind of in a limbo state
16:39
Speaker 1: and not sure, right, I.
16:42
Speaker 2: Mean, it's kind of like that conversation when people talk
16:45
Speaker 2: about I couldn't handle that situation, and you don't know
16:47
Speaker 2: what you can handle until you're in it, and you
16:49
Speaker 2: really don't realize how bad it was.
16:51
Speaker 3: Until after the fact.
16:53
Speaker 2: Like I think people who are in like different situations
16:58
Speaker 2: where they've been violated or they've been harmed or something,
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Speaker 2: they don't realize it was harmful and they're like because
17:04
Speaker 2: they just put it aside.
17:07
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And the context of this book, I think
17:14
Speaker 1: the interesting point she's making is that for a lot
17:19
Speaker 1: of us, who I mean, she's pretty well off, like
17:22
Speaker 1: she's doing generally fine in the context of this world
17:28
Speaker 1: that we live in, but she still has this feeling
17:32
Speaker 1: that the world is ending. She still has this all
17:37
Speaker 1: of these overwhelming emotions. There are just things that every
17:41
Speaker 1: day she thinks about, and I believe a lot of
17:47
Speaker 1: people can relate to that in terms of it does
17:51
Speaker 1: feel like we're in a disaster, but also the world
17:54
Speaker 1: keeps moving, right, Yeah, that sensation is very hard to reconcile.
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Speaker 2: Right, yeah, right, there's so obviously the doom of it
18:10
Speaker 2: all again is like it kind of ties in with
18:12
Speaker 2: everything else because we wouldn't talk about spirituality, but like
18:15
Speaker 2: letting go of death. She talks about the character Margo,
18:18
Speaker 2: who is a Buddhist who helps meditation, and everything is
18:22
Speaker 2: like very like, no, you're not doing these things. These
18:25
Speaker 2: are these things happening to you type of conversations and
18:27
Speaker 2: how you handle it like allmost but it does kind
18:29
Speaker 2: of like trying to equate doom as just a state
18:33
Speaker 2: of being.
18:34
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, yeah, yeah it does. But it's also especially
18:42
Speaker 1: interesting because she has a kid, which I know we've
18:45
Speaker 1: talked about that before, but having these interactions with her
18:50
Speaker 1: child when she is having these interactions with the world,
18:57
Speaker 1: are these thoughts you know, uh, the world and how
19:02
Speaker 1: do you how do you talk to a child about that?
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Speaker 3: Right? And she does. She's like, do I talk to him?
19:08
Speaker 3: Or do I just leave it be?
19:08
Speaker 1: Yeah? Exactly, like do I ruin everything right now? Or
19:12
Speaker 1: is it gonna ruin everything if I don't tell him?
19:15
Speaker 1: Which is better choice?
19:19
Speaker 2: And then another thing we have is the survivalist ideal.
19:22
Speaker 2: She supposedically writes survival instructors have a saying get organized
19:25
Speaker 2: or die. Who's not talking about the chaos in her
19:30
Speaker 2: time and like things that need to be done, and
19:33
Speaker 2: the fact that her husband's just like no, yeah, this
19:35
Speaker 2: is what you do. She's like, wait, how do you
19:36
Speaker 2: clean up spices? And like he's like, that's what you do.
19:39
Speaker 2: She's like, I guess I've never noticed it until you
19:41
Speaker 2: were gone. But he was part of that key factor.
19:45
Speaker 2: But also he's so organized that it's almost unnerving. I'm like,
19:50
Speaker 2: what is he organizing for? But yeah again. She also
19:56
Speaker 2: she and Will have a conversation about if they could
19:59
Speaker 2: survive because she talks very dupe and gloom and he
20:02
Speaker 2: loves it. Apparently Will likes it, which is that part
20:04
Speaker 2: of that attraction to them is that she can be
20:08
Speaker 2: that gloom oh my god, and he seems to be like, yeah,
20:12
Speaker 2: okay type of talk. And at one point they talk
20:15
Speaker 2: about what does what does she bring? And She's like,
20:17
Speaker 2: a lively conversation, I can do these things, and then
20:20
Speaker 2: talk about how she can she knows about spitting enough
20:24
Speaker 2: to attract fish.
20:27
Speaker 1: She the fishing thing was a whole. She went down
20:30
Speaker 1: a rabbit hole catch fish.
20:34
Speaker 3: I will never forget it. I will remember that gum thing.
20:37
Speaker 2: That's really like, that's one of the survivalist things to
20:40
Speaker 2: have because it can help from hunger pain as well
20:44
Speaker 2: as fishing.
20:47
Speaker 1: I've heard mixed things about the chewing of gum for hunger.
20:51
Speaker 1: I've heard it can actually make you hungrier in the
20:53
Speaker 1: long run because you're chewing and you're not getting anything.
20:57
Speaker 1: But anyway, I do know it's a you know, I
21:03
Speaker 1: grew up next to his survival, right, That's.
21:05
Speaker 3: What I'm saying. I was like, Okay, let's see.
21:07
Speaker 2: But then she talks about how out of shape she is,
21:09
Speaker 2: and she's like, yeah, I'm gone, I'm done. She talked
21:12
Speaker 2: about she can't grow up with a certain amount of
21:14
Speaker 2: steps because they're going hiking, and she's like, yeah, I'm dead.
21:17
Speaker 3: It's over. There's nothing to survive.
21:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know at a certain point.
21:26
Speaker 2: Because she also talked about the bear out running the
21:29
Speaker 2: bear and the dude was like, I just need to
21:31
Speaker 2: outrun you.
21:32
Speaker 1: Yeah.
21:34
Speaker 3: She had a lot of quotes in there. Yeah.
21:37
Speaker 2: Then we have technology as a thing. So that's a
21:39
Speaker 2: big theme obviously with the in the world. Who's who
21:42
Speaker 2: has the right to stay and what happens and and
21:45
Speaker 2: all these things, And this is one of the quotes.
21:47
Speaker 3: I thought it was interesting.
21:48
Speaker 2: Somehow I get seated halfway down the table from her, Sofia,
21:51
Speaker 2: I am trapped next to this young techno optimist guy.
21:54
Speaker 2: He explains that current technology will no longer seem strange
21:58
Speaker 2: when the generation who didn't grow up with it finally
22:01
Speaker 2: ages out of the conversation dies. I think he means
22:04
Speaker 2: his point is that eventually all those who are unnerved
22:07
Speaker 2: about what is falling away will be gone, and after
22:10
Speaker 2: that there won't be any more talk of what has
22:13
Speaker 2: been lost, only of what has been gained.
22:15
Speaker 1: Ohly, that is so bleak, Yeah.
22:20
Speaker 2: Because they all talk about like who survive and essentially
22:23
Speaker 2: those who like embrace technology are the only ones worth surviving.
22:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, And in the post Trump landscape that she wrote
22:36
Speaker 1: us in, this is a very relevant conversation. But it
22:42
Speaker 1: does feel Yeah, anybody who would not agree with us,
22:48
Speaker 1: just let them die will die out and then.
22:54
Speaker 3: And then we're here.
22:55
Speaker 2: But also like I feel like in tandem because they
22:57
Speaker 2: talk about they can't wait till they are like lifeless
23:01
Speaker 2: and they're just you know, beings a part of the
23:03
Speaker 2: tech world essentially, but then at the same time they're
23:06
Speaker 2: so impatient for this like neutrality. On top of that,
23:12
Speaker 2: it's interesting because Sylvia says the only way you can
23:14
Speaker 2: protect her son is being rich, which.
23:17
Speaker 3: Is exactly also the tech ideas.
23:22
Speaker 1: Sylvia was such an interesting character to me, uh, because
23:26
Speaker 1: she was very She has this podcast, she gets these
23:30
Speaker 1: tech broue comments, she gets these interviews, but she was
23:36
Speaker 1: somebody who I think was seeing she was trying to
23:42
Speaker 1: have these important conversations, which was also but she was
23:45
Speaker 1: also seeing it's not going anywhere, and these tech bros
23:49
Speaker 1: are winning, and they're the ones that I'm talking to, right,
23:52
Speaker 1: And the people who are writing in are also.
23:55
Speaker 3: Not really no, they're just about save me.
23:59
Speaker 1: Yeah. And so in the end she ends up like
24:02
Speaker 1: she stops the show and ends up gardening and is
24:08
Speaker 1: basically like, well, the world is ending anyway, Like I
24:13
Speaker 1: tried my past.
24:15
Speaker 3: I'm done.
24:16
Speaker 2: World done right with that? Going on talk about progress,
24:21
Speaker 2: there's a couple of quotes. It says, a desire for
24:24
Speaker 2: small government is nothing new. Of course, at the end
24:26
Speaker 2: of the nineteenth century, a US government officially proposed closing
24:30
Speaker 2: the Office of Patents. Everything of importance had already been invented,
24:34
Speaker 2: he said.
24:36
Speaker 3: And this is really.
24:37
Speaker 2: Early, like like nineteen I want to say forty, so
24:40
Speaker 2: d's when that was stated.
24:43
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh.
24:45
Speaker 2: Interesting, when they were trying to save money in the government,
24:49
Speaker 2: and I'm like we are the opposite, like we're not
24:52
Speaker 2: having small government, we're having we're having small amount of people.
24:57
Speaker 2: They want a small dictatorship, but they want to have
25:00
Speaker 2: the most power, which is interesting. And then another quote,
25:04
Speaker 2: and then it is another day and another and another,
25:07
Speaker 2: and I will not go on about this because no
25:08
Speaker 2: doubt you too have experienced time just and this is
25:13
Speaker 2: I think that conversation, uh, is it with Margo One
25:20
Speaker 2: of the conversations with Margo maybe where it's just like
25:24
Speaker 2: and it is and just is like even when tragedy happens,
25:27
Speaker 2: it is it just goes on and on and on.
25:30
Speaker 2: Oh no, I think it's actually with the never mind, No,
25:32
Speaker 2: it's with the driver that's you boo friends, the older man,
25:36
Speaker 2: and he just goes on and on and on and
25:38
Speaker 2: that's it.
25:40
Speaker 3: That's the experience. That's progress.
25:42
Speaker 2: And I'm like, all, damn, yeah, damn, bro, I sorry.
25:49
Speaker 3: It's pretty bleak.
25:53
Speaker 1: A lot of it is, yeah, but it is. You know,
26:00
Speaker 1: I would love if listeners wrote in about this. I
26:03
Speaker 1: just feel like I was relating a lot, because you know,
26:06
Speaker 1: you have these moments that are like when you tell
26:10
Speaker 1: them to somebody, they feel small, but in your head
26:13
Speaker 1: they feel bigger, like this represents more to me than
26:17
Speaker 1: it sounds when I'm telling you. But those kind of
26:24
Speaker 1: experiences you have that are, oh, I just talked to
26:28
Speaker 1: this random person, but that conversation reflects so much about
26:35
Speaker 1: how you feel in the state of the world as
26:37
Speaker 1: you view it.
26:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is.
26:42
Speaker 2: And I only put one quote for anxiety and overthinking
26:45
Speaker 2: because the entirety of the book is anxiety and overthinking.
26:49
Speaker 2: But she writes, my brother told me once that he
26:52
Speaker 2: missed drugs because they made the world stop calling to him.
26:57
Speaker 3: And there are those moments like we have.
26:58
Speaker 2: Those moments are just like we want to stop thinking,
27:02
Speaker 2: We want to stop it. She kind of talks about
27:05
Speaker 2: social media in that same way, like the dredging, the
27:08
Speaker 2: being trained to just click buttons and not having any
27:14
Speaker 2: kind of patience and just feeling like, you know, the constant.
27:16
Speaker 2: But at the same time, that's one more thing that
27:20
Speaker 2: helps you stop thinking about the world.
27:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, essentially.
27:25
Speaker 2: And I think he was the epitome of overthinking and anxiety.
27:31
Speaker 2: I feel like, especially when it came to the child,
27:35
Speaker 2: iris the baby and all the things that he could
27:37
Speaker 2: do wrong and making mistakes and being a father or
27:42
Speaker 2: having a kid. I don't know being a father, I
27:44
Speaker 2: guess it could be the same one the same, but
27:46
Speaker 2: I feel like having a kid, being responsible for a kid,
27:50
Speaker 2: him losing sleep, him not being able to sleep, feeling
27:53
Speaker 2: like he's going to fall off, or like constant.
27:57
Speaker 3: Yeah.
28:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, And this is something I believe a lot of
28:04
Speaker 1: us can relate to as well as when you have
28:08
Speaker 1: those anxiety issues, well you have anxiety and someone else
28:14
Speaker 1: in your orbit has it to a much higher degree,
28:20
Speaker 1: it can be really difficult to walk the line between
28:27
Speaker 1: I understand you and also I I don't know, like
28:36
Speaker 1: not not a pep talk, but you know, like trying
28:40
Speaker 1: to be like, but it's not that bad, right, because
28:44
Speaker 1: it can be really complicated when you have those emotions
28:48
Speaker 1: as well and you have those feelings as well. And
28:51
Speaker 1: he was living with Lizzie and so just that whole
28:58
Speaker 1: thing was I feel like that was a really difficult
29:05
Speaker 1: relationship for them both.
29:09
Speaker 2: It was interesting too, because his Catherine character was the
29:12
Speaker 2: opposite of both of them in that she was like,
29:16
Speaker 2: I need to take action, we need to do this now.
29:17
Speaker 2: At one point she was talking about how do you
29:19
Speaker 2: feel with the current issues of things, and like.
29:24
Speaker 3: Lizzie takes it broad like broad broad like, well, all.
29:27
Speaker 2: This is happening, and this is happening, and there's no
29:29
Speaker 2: real way of saying anything is good, So I don't
29:31
Speaker 2: know why you're asking me this, in which Catherin.
29:35
Speaker 3: I was talking about politics.
29:39
Speaker 2: Like she was very like, She's like, oh okay, like
29:42
Speaker 2: y in tune, so much so that it gave Henry
29:46
Speaker 2: even more anxiety because he didn't want tell her anything,
29:48
Speaker 2: because she would want to put things into action immediately
29:50
Speaker 2: to solve it, and he didn't like that. Again, the
29:54
Speaker 2: opposite of who he was speaking of, which we're going
29:57
Speaker 2: to talk about. Obviously, there's different forms of relationships here.
30:00
Speaker 2: Here's a couple of quotes. Here's one says she's talking
30:03
Speaker 2: about to Tracy, who was a bartender who was watching Will.
30:07
Speaker 3: And Lizzie Floyd.
30:08
Speaker 2: She's like, get that girl, go ahead, why don't you
30:10
Speaker 2: sleep with her? You have you have free time, whatever,
30:13
Speaker 2: And Tracy says, sure, sure, I suppose I could go
30:16
Speaker 2: for someone safe, but I've never felt like this before, never,
30:19
Speaker 2: And then and then her response Lizzie's responses, but no
30:22
Speaker 2: one is safe.
30:23
Speaker 3: I want to tell her what is safe?
30:25
Speaker 2: I got a question mark like in actuality, what you
30:28
Speaker 2: think is safe is never safe?
30:30
Speaker 1: M hmm. Yeah. Anyone can hurt you. I've leave that firmly.
30:39
Speaker 1: Anyone can hurt you. Even the people who you care
30:44
Speaker 1: about can hurt you the most because they grow the
30:46
Speaker 1: most about you and you care about them the most.
30:49
Speaker 2: People who are supposed to be safe are usually not
30:51
Speaker 2: the safest, whether it's the not chosen family, like your
30:55
Speaker 2: family family. And then another quote, This is when Ben
30:59
Speaker 2: is trying to convince her to leave for a couple
31:01
Speaker 2: of weeks, just for a little bit, a couple of months,
31:04
Speaker 2: I think, and her He's like, what's keeping you here?
31:07
Speaker 2: He says, please, I think, But no, I can't even
31:10
Speaker 2: look at him.
31:10
Speaker 3: All these people. I have so many people, you wouldn't
31:13
Speaker 3: believe it.
31:13
Speaker 2: And she's thinking about Sylvia, her mom, her brother, her
31:16
Speaker 2: brother's child, Iris, like all of these people who depend
31:20
Speaker 2: on her. In her mind, the driver, even she considers
31:23
Speaker 2: the driver who she's like, what happens to him if
31:26
Speaker 2: I don't use his business Like it's a constant state
31:29
Speaker 2: of being, of being like I have to be everything
31:31
Speaker 2: to everybody. I can't take breaks.
31:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, And once again I think a lot of listeners
31:40
Speaker 1: can relate to that, because if you care about people
31:46
Speaker 1: and our current state of affairs. Everything feels very precarious. Uh,
31:52
Speaker 1: and you are constantly thinking about, oh my god, this person,
31:55
Speaker 1: how can I how can I help them? How can
31:59
Speaker 1: I help this person? And the driver. You know, even
32:05
Speaker 1: if it's not somebody who is your family or found family,
32:09
Speaker 1: it is somebody in your life that you've grown to
32:14
Speaker 1: care about enough that you're worried about their state of
32:19
Speaker 1: affairs and what will happen to them.
32:33
Speaker 2: And then she talks about marriage and being because I'm like,
32:37
Speaker 2: I'll relate to this in a way like I have
32:39
Speaker 2: a great relationship, but also like at the same time,
32:42
Speaker 2: you're like a little bit change. They write funny how
32:45
Speaker 2: when you're married, all you want is to be anonymous
32:48
Speaker 2: to each other again. But when you're anonymous, all you
32:50
Speaker 2: want is to be married and reading together in bed.
32:54
Speaker 3: Well yeah, even though you are like, I need a break,
32:57
Speaker 3: but I miss you, I need you here.
33:00
Speaker 1: Yep, grasses are a screener. It is.
33:03
Speaker 2: It is like conversation and her and Ben's relationship, like
33:06
Speaker 2: he reminds her, He's like, She's like, I would love
33:09
Speaker 2: to be in love. He's like, you are in love
33:12
Speaker 2: with me. I'm right here, and like you would think
33:16
Speaker 2: he would be infanded, but he's not. He's like, oh,
33:18
Speaker 2: you know, come on now, calm down, everything's good here.
33:21
Speaker 2: And they do have a good relationship once again. But
33:24
Speaker 2: sometimes it just feels stale in comparison to especially when
33:27
Speaker 2: your concentration is how do we not die?
33:30
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, and you can when your thoughts are how
33:35
Speaker 1: do we not die? I think some people do reach
33:38
Speaker 1: for excitement, and that can be I need to break
33:43
Speaker 1: from you, let me flirt with this will guy right.
33:46
Speaker 3: Right, and he just to hit that boundary just a
33:49
Speaker 3: little touch.
33:50
Speaker 2: Also, she does talk about being old now, like she
33:52
Speaker 2: talks about how she's so old at her job that
33:55
Speaker 2: the kids have started wearing her clothes again and now
33:58
Speaker 2: she's in fashion. She's like, oh my god, now look
34:00
Speaker 2: like I'm trying to be with it like them, I
34:02
Speaker 2: need to go back.
34:03
Speaker 3: But I was like, yeah, yep, it comes.
34:08
Speaker 2: From And then also talking about the fact that she
34:12
Speaker 2: has arthritis in her knee and she swore to God
34:15
Speaker 2: it wasn't because she's too young.
34:19
Speaker 3: Maybe if you're my age, maybe.
34:20
Speaker 2: Not, but just saying, but like having that excitement of
34:27
Speaker 2: this man who's attractive, who as she found out like
34:30
Speaker 2: dates women who are so attractive finding you attractive. It
34:33
Speaker 2: was just like feeling wanted in that way is a
34:37
Speaker 2: new high. Yeah again, a new connection and knowing that
34:42
Speaker 2: it's fleeting because he was leaving.
34:44
Speaker 3: She knew that too.
34:45
Speaker 1: Yeah.
34:46
Speaker 2: Not great emotional affairs are not okay, I do not
34:49
Speaker 2: conn I'm just saying yeah, in that relationship, and then
34:55
Speaker 2: we have that like the spirituality and morality Okay, it's
34:58
Speaker 2: all within this book obviously, just like seees out between
35:03
Speaker 2: the meditation moments between her talking about what she should
35:06
Speaker 2: do shouldn't do, between not being racist, between like but
35:10
Speaker 2: at the same time being prejudiced because or being scared
35:13
Speaker 2: to talk to someone who has a different language because
35:14
Speaker 2: you don't like know that fear in itself.
35:18
Speaker 3: So many things in here.
35:20
Speaker 2: But here's a quote, and I love this quote because
35:22
Speaker 2: you're talking to reference to the dog. My mother told
35:25
Speaker 2: me once that each thing, each being has two names.
35:28
Speaker 2: One is the name by what she's just known in
35:30
Speaker 2: this world, and the other is a secret name that
35:32
Speaker 2: it keeps hidden. But if you call it by this name,
35:36
Speaker 2: it cannot help or respond. This is the name by
35:38
Speaker 2: which the creature was known in the garden. Of Eden,
35:41
Speaker 2: and then she tries to find the name of the
35:43
Speaker 2: dog m hm, because she's like, I know you have
35:48
Speaker 2: a different name. I need to find out this name.
35:51
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie. I did say that something was
35:52
Speaker 2: gonna happen with a dog. I was like, why are
35:54
Speaker 2: you focusing so.
35:55
Speaker 3: Hard on this dog?
36:00
Speaker 1: Been trained?
36:02
Speaker 3: Where the dog gets hurt?
36:03
Speaker 2: Oh no, it's okay, yeah, anyway, but let's find that
36:08
Speaker 2: levels because her mom is very spiritual, very religious, to
36:12
Speaker 2: the point that she goes to churchyard there one day
36:13
Speaker 2: and her mom is so proud, so proud and so
36:17
Speaker 2: excited she's there.
36:19
Speaker 3: But obviously that's not her thing.
36:21
Speaker 2: They do a lot of meditation, specifically Buddhist meditation, which
36:25
Speaker 2: is like an interesting form of meditation as in fact,
36:29
Speaker 2: this is one of the mantras that she has from
36:32
Speaker 2: the meditation. So it's breathing in. I know that I
36:36
Speaker 2: am of the nature to grow old, breathing out. I
36:39
Speaker 2: know that I cannot escape old age, breathing in. I
36:43
Speaker 2: know that I am of the nature to get sick,
36:45
Speaker 2: breathing out. I know that I cannot escape sickness. Breathing in.
36:50
Speaker 2: I know that I am of the nature to die
36:52
Speaker 2: breathing out. I know that I cannot escape dying.
36:54
Speaker 3: Breathing in.
36:55
Speaker 2: I know that one day I'll have to let go
36:58
Speaker 2: of everything and everyone I love, breathing out. I know
37:01
Speaker 2: there's no way to bring them along like they.
37:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, did it have to be that dark? Once again?
37:12
Speaker 1: Very bleak.
37:14
Speaker 2: I feel like one of the parts that she's saying
37:16
Speaker 2: this is she's watching or her husband is watching over
37:19
Speaker 2: talking about how they she watches them, and he watches
37:21
Speaker 2: them in their sleep to see if they're dying and
37:25
Speaker 2: can't reconcile the fact that he can't stop them from dying. Yeah,
37:30
Speaker 2: and this is the mantra that he has to stay
37:32
Speaker 2: in order to let it go.
37:35
Speaker 3: Yeah.
37:36
Speaker 1: Uh once again, Yep, it's a it's I feel like
37:43
Speaker 1: it touches on that once you get older, suddenly death
37:49
Speaker 1: feels much more prescient than it feels like. I remember
37:55
Speaker 1: when I was young, I was like, ah, I was
37:58
Speaker 1: the I was the person who's like, I'll be fine,
38:01
Speaker 1: And now it's like, well, I could swallow something incorrectly,
38:06
Speaker 1: that will be the end of me. And so there
38:10
Speaker 1: are a lot there's a lot of that kind of
38:13
Speaker 1: thought throughout the book of Just You can't really stop it.
38:21
Speaker 1: You can't stop it.
38:23
Speaker 2: She has a quote in here, young personal worry, what
38:26
Speaker 2: if nothing I do matters? Old personal worry? What if
38:29
Speaker 2: everything I do does? And I'm like, yeah, yeah.
38:34
Speaker 1: Yep, yep. Although I would be interested if younger listeners
38:42
Speaker 1: right in, hey, young, I think in the state of
38:45
Speaker 1: our world ending, what feels like constant barrage of world
38:52
Speaker 1: ending news if that feeling is still the same, But
38:56
Speaker 1: I would say that resonates with me of like, yeah,
39:00
Speaker 1: when I was young, I was like, oh, sure that
39:03
Speaker 1: And now I'm like, oh no, everything everything, Yeah.
39:11
Speaker 3: And this is another quote there.
39:13
Speaker 2: I really liked it because it was just like if
39:16
Speaker 2: it didn't belong in the spiritualey but it feels like
39:18
Speaker 2: the comfort, the small comforts that she has. There wasn't many,
39:21
Speaker 2: but it's there's a heroic tower of folded things on
39:24
Speaker 2: the table. I spot my favorite shirt, my least depressing underwear.
39:28
Speaker 2: I go into the bedroom change into them. Now I'm
39:31
Speaker 2: a brand new person, and I was like, yeah, when
39:34
Speaker 2: you get into that like comfy but like clean, when
39:37
Speaker 2: you first take that shower and you feel refreshed, and
39:40
Speaker 2: then you're wearing everything clean, new, and like you feel
39:43
Speaker 2: like you can start over before you drop the food
39:46
Speaker 2: on your on yourself me specifically, but like it is
39:49
Speaker 2: like I am brand new.
39:51
Speaker 1: Hmm.
39:52
Speaker 2: It does feel nice. And I also love the line
39:54
Speaker 2: my least depressing underwear. I was like, yeah, because mer.
40:02
Speaker 1: Yep, I've worried about throwing away some underwear. Sometimes this
40:06
Speaker 1: doesn't look good. However, I do whatever I do.
40:14
Speaker 2: And then another one what it means to be a
40:17
Speaker 2: good person. A moral person is calculated differently in times
40:20
Speaker 2: of crisis than in ordinary circumstances. And then she talks
40:24
Speaker 2: about two situations where one is she pulls up a
40:27
Speaker 2: slide of people where they're having a picnic and they're
40:30
Speaker 2: just chilling and they're just hanging out, no big deal.
40:32
Speaker 2: But then you take the next line and you see
40:34
Speaker 2: children drowning and they do they're having a nice little picnic,
40:37
Speaker 2: ignoring that situation, and now they've become monsters. And I
40:41
Speaker 2: was like, yeah, and this is a Sylvia ism. I
40:44
Speaker 2: think we get to put it at that. And when
40:46
Speaker 2: she talks about so, she also has another one about
40:48
Speaker 2: a plotting and I was.
40:49
Speaker 3: Like what what.
40:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, where she explains the plotting happened because they were
40:54
Speaker 2: protecting themselves and I was like, interesting, we didn't have
41:00
Speaker 2: any other tactics to protect ourselves as humans, like bears.
41:03
Speaker 3: Can claude things, but applauding.
41:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, but I found that interesting because it does.
41:12
Speaker 2: She's like, circumstances change what we see are how we
41:16
Speaker 2: see a group of people. It's that level of understanding
41:19
Speaker 2: because you see, like people have you know, done amazing
41:22
Speaker 2: things and solving and crying all these diseases, but they
41:26
Speaker 2: went through testing on humans and killing people and using
41:29
Speaker 2: people of specific races as test subjects. Like that makes
41:33
Speaker 2: some monsters, Like at one point there were heroes. Of course,
41:36
Speaker 2: mine's a little darker, I guess in that real, but
41:38
Speaker 2: it's true. And you see what they've done to get
41:40
Speaker 2: to these answers, You're like, yeah, but that makes them yeah,
41:42
Speaker 2: cruel and monsters. Like there's this level of indignation and
41:47
Speaker 2: realizing the morality of it, Like, but what.
41:50
Speaker 3: If and how if?
41:52
Speaker 2: This book is a lot I will say it's not
41:54
Speaker 2: as dark as some of the other books that we read,
41:56
Speaker 2: Like I didn't go into a funk. I think it's
41:59
Speaker 2: like just lighthearted enough. She puts an enough little equips
42:04
Speaker 2: and kind of distances emotions from it because it's more thought.
42:09
Speaker 3: Than events and you know, feelings. But I enjoyed it.
42:14
Speaker 1: I agree, and I do think for better or worse,
42:20
Speaker 1: there is a sort of disassociation, dissociation that many of
42:27
Speaker 1: us can relate to, especially right now when you're going
42:33
Speaker 1: through when this is your life and every day you're
42:35
Speaker 1: trying to oh, I've got to do a podcast on cheese,
42:40
Speaker 1: which I had to do last week. But meanwhile, ron
42:46
Speaker 1: like having those. It feels odd to be continuing your
42:53
Speaker 1: life when all of these things are happening, and so
42:58
Speaker 1: there is there's a layer of distance, as you said,
43:01
Speaker 1: that I think spares you from as bleak as it is.
43:06
Speaker 1: It's not going to put you in a spiral, most
43:10
Speaker 1: likely because probably you're experiencing it.
43:13
Speaker 3: To fill normal.
43:16
Speaker 1: Yeah. Unfortunately, so well how we feel about that.
43:20
Speaker 2: But essentially yeah, yeah, but I did enjoy it.
43:25
Speaker 1: I mean, like I said, I felt like I was
43:29
Speaker 1: reading a diary of somebody that I felt, oh, yes,
43:33
Speaker 1: this also explains a lot of my emotions.
43:35
Speaker 2: Right, this is where I am as well, especially about
43:39
Speaker 2: like can I do this?
43:40
Speaker 3: What do I do? How do I handle this? Do
43:42
Speaker 3: I talk to this person? I'm going to hide in
43:43
Speaker 3: this hardware store. Now I have to buy a heart.
43:46
Speaker 3: Now I'm about to buy a hammer exactly.
43:50
Speaker 1: We've all been there. We've all been there well. Listeners,
43:57
Speaker 1: please let us know your thoughts and any any suggestions
44:01
Speaker 1: for future book club picks. You can email us at
44:04
Speaker 1: Hello at Steffannever Told You dot com. You can find
44:06
Speaker 1: us on Blue Scotch Mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram
44:08
Speaker 1: and TikTok at Stuff I've Never Told You. We're also
44:10
Speaker 1: on YouTube. We have some merchandise at Common Bureau, and
44:13
Speaker 1: we have a book you can get wherever you get
44:14
Speaker 1: your books. Thanks, It's always too our super produced Christine
44:17
Speaker 1: or executive and a protubutor Joey.
44:19
Speaker 3: Thank you and thanks to you for listening.
44:22
Speaker 1: Stuff Never Told You to production by Heart Radio. For
44:24
Speaker 1: more podcast from my heart Radio, you can check out
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Speaker 1: the heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
44:28
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.