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3 Guys Before The Game - John Spiker Visits (Episode 462) · 3 Guys Before The Game

• 0:12
  Hey, hey everybody, Hello, Hello, hello, and welcome on in.
• 0:18
  It's time for three Guys Before the Game, Episode number four hundred and
• 0:23
  sixty two title John Spiker Visits. Oh wait a second. If you're one
• 0:31
  of our viewers, if you're watching, you're going to wait a second.
• 0:35
  There's only two. But you just said John Spiker visits. So where's like
• 0:40
  John Spiker? Oh for gott to tell you he's invisible now. So,
• 0:46
  as you can probably imagine, it has been a unique week for a bunch
• 0:52
  of different reasons, and we're gonna talk about that here. To start things
• 0:57
  off, we'll get into all of that stuff. Three Guys Before the Game
• 1:00
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  secure and efficient. They've been doing that for twenty five years. Three guys
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  also brought to us by our good friends at gomart Go for good times go
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  for Gomart. More on them coming up in just a little bit. And
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  by lou Wendell Marine Sales. Saint Alban's the premier pontoon boat dealer in the
• 2:46
  state of West Virginia. They feature the avalon pontoon boats and you can check
• 2:51
  them out at Loue Wendell Marine Sales dot Com. All right, so let's
• 2:58
  on jump in on all this stuff off here. Firstly, obviously, the
• 3:04
  Bob Huggins story from this week has been the story of the week, not
• 3:09
  only here in West Virginia but across the country, and that has been resolved
• 3:16
  to the point now where both the university and Hugs have issued statements regarding the
• 3:22
  punishment which has been handed down. That's one aspect of it. And be
• 3:25
  quite honest with you, we were gonna record yesterday, but we said this
• 3:34
  is probably going to come out in the afternoon, and so let's just wait.
• 3:38
  So we're recording this on Thursday. We recorded our John Spiker visits Tuesday
• 3:46
  Tuesday and he was fantastic, and we'll have that coming up. So that's
• 3:52
  your point to why there's not the third guy sitting here right now. What
• 3:53
  we're going to do for the first time, I think in four hundred and
• 3:59
  sixty two episodes, we're gonna we're gonna marry. We're gonna marry two episodes
• 4:04
  together, so we're gonna do that. Um. Also, it's been a
• 4:09
  busy, busy week because of the WV Coaches caravan. So Monday was Wheeling,
• 4:15
  Tuesday was Glade Springs, Wednesday was Parkersburg. Tonight is Martinsburg. So
• 4:21
  that's caused some craziness. Schedule eyes and then the other guy, the third
• 4:30
  guy of three guys, So how do we say this? Are you gonna
• 4:35
  announce this? Now? I am the hell with Hippa? Okay, I
• 4:41
  don't care. You know he's gonna come in here and say it anyway.
• 4:43
  Okay, Oh boy, Hoppy got a little bit of a problem. He
• 4:49
  got a little bit of a problem. In fact, ladies and gentlemen,
• 4:51
  I for the record, now, I just thought of something as I was
• 4:54
  going to tell you all this. This show physically is just going to hell
• 5:00
  in a handbasket. He comes in today like Festus and gunsmoke, limping in
• 5:08
  here, just coming off a massive calf injury now calf tear official diagnosis,
• 5:15
  calf tear. Then he popped his hammy last night, two different legs,
• 5:18
  two different legs, got a lot of problems. So he's walking around just
• 5:23
  a mess. Why do you think I asked Gary Jennings about the yoga routine,
• 5:26
  trying to get back on track. I want to start on that.
• 5:28
  I'm a mess. By the way, did you see what three guys did
• 5:31
  for Gary Jennings. It's undefeated, got him signed and love it. Good
• 5:36
  for him. Yeah, I got him signed. So he's with the Carolina
• 5:39
  Panthers and we wish him the very best anyway, and he real quick.
• 5:43
  He's he's due as we as he documented in the podcast when we had him
• 5:46
  on, he is due for some good luck. Yes, this is this
• 5:48
  is his time for that to turn around. Talent skill has been there.
• 5:53
  Now he's due for some luck to make that team. And he a year
• 5:55
  You're correct. So back to kurch Ofville. So, as was previously discussed
• 6:01
  on this program when he was here, he was going to go on a
• 6:03
  two week vacation, correct, He was going to spend nine days out in
• 6:12
  parts and a lot of the parts of nine days hiking on the Appalachian Trail.
• 6:17
  Okay. So he did that. He started like right near the border
• 6:21
  in North Carolina, and he sent us a video he sent for Brad and
• 6:26
  eye video when he got there, and it was like he was standing like
• 6:29
  at the top of like the North Pole. It was like horrifically windy,
• 6:33
  and you couldn't even hear him talking. Into the camera. That's how wind
• 6:38
  it cold. So I went, well, that seems to be a heck
• 6:41
  of a lot of fun. So anyway, like a day or two goes
• 6:44
  by, and then he says, yeah, it's going to go okay,
• 6:47
  it's going okay, okay. Fine. Then Saturday morning, afternoon, I
• 6:55
  get a picture of him at his house in his driveway, not supposed to
• 7:02
  be back yet, on crutches. Crutches, I said, foot wrapped up,
• 7:11
  looking very pensive. So I said what I said, dude, I
• 7:18
  mean, all right, fine, I mean he's closer to seventy than he
• 7:23
  is sixty. What do you so, why would you do that on the
• 7:26
  Appalachian I mean, what do you think you're gonna do on the Appalachian Trail?
• 7:29
  I mean like that, h that wasn't the Appalachian try, I said,
• 7:32
  excuse me, So he was. He took a day trip. They
• 7:36
  had an off day, kind of like a team. He took an off
• 7:39
  day from the trail, and they were visiting Thomas Jefferson's place, Manta Cello.
• 7:45
  They're in Virginia. Yeah, so he's over there at Monticello. It's
• 7:48
  like an off day for him, you know, probably a recovery day.
• 7:51
  And he's just like walking around there on a little path, like not the
• 7:58
  Appalachian Trail path, I mean like a path where millions of people I would
• 8:01
  assume through the years have walked, slips or something popped. His foot popped,
• 8:09
  his foot broken bone, right, he broke it. Done out d
• 8:16
  NP No, it would probably like DNH did not hike medical decision d N
• 8:24
  now d n H I n J did not hike. Injury out. Wife
• 8:31
  Karen rules him out, has to take him back home. Just a mess.
• 8:37
  He'll tell you more about that when he returns next week. I hope
• 8:39
  Paul as well needs some rest. Ice elevation yeah right, Yeah, he
• 8:45
  had thought about coming in today, but there were still in the ice and
• 8:48
  elevation boat. So a little buddy went down. Yeah, but I showed
• 8:52
  him, you did. I mean you're you're you're walking hurt, Okay,
• 8:56
  I mean it hurts, But I showed hip. Yeah. Mine was especially
• 8:58
  strenuous as well. Ben Over straight it popped. You could hear it.
• 9:05
  You could hear it. Yeah, it sound like it was it that or
• 9:09
  did it sound more like probably a little lader a little about it. Yeah,
• 9:13
  literally Benover walked to where I was gonna benover. Great to see it
• 9:18
  come to this, have some work coming on once on healed, Yeah,
• 9:22
  we gree dedication to the Yeah, getting back in chap We'll get you back
• 9:24
  to that. Okay. So because I've been on the circuit here this weekend
• 9:30
  that those caravans stops, I've had the opportunity and the pleasure to meet a
• 9:35
  lot of three guys people, a lot of three guys people. I met
• 9:39
  three people in Glades Springs gentlemen and his wife were sitting there. He said,
• 9:45
  Hey, I'm a three guys listener. Talked he and his wife,
• 9:46
  and I asked the wife do you think we're idiots? She goes, I
• 9:48
  don't think you're idiot. And the guy they were sitting next he said,
• 9:52
  I'm also a three guys listener, talked, chatted with him. He want
• 9:56
  and he's a business owner in Louisbourg. He wants to sell kerchivale. Awesome.
• 10:01
  Yeah, and then another guy came over at the same time. I
• 10:03
  had three different ones at the same time. Should it take it? Should
• 10:07
  have had their picture made? Should but I didn't do that. But anyway,
• 10:11
  so that's what we've been doing this week so let's jump in here,
• 10:15
  also getting a ton of food, because we haven't been on doing a show
• 10:20
  a lot. It's it's quite obvious that peanut butter is the theme, and
• 10:24
  we'll talk more about that coming up in a little bit, but first let's
• 10:26
  jump in here to the Bob Huggins story, which has become obviously the biggest
• 10:35
  story in the state this week. It's become a national story this week,
• 10:41
  and it had the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday life of the incident, the
• 10:48
  review, and the punishment which came down on Wednesday, and now we go
• 10:56
  forward. So with all that being said, your takeaway from obviously just a
• 11:05
  week that no one ever wanted to happen. So my takeaway is this,
• 11:11
  and it's it's based upon where we land and where we sit at this point
• 11:15
  which the decision has been made. I know there's been debate here for two
• 11:18
  or three days of what was appropriate, what isn't appropriate, what should happen,
• 11:22
  what shouldn't happen, and those opinions fell all over the places you would
• 11:26
  expect. What I'm looking at from this moving forward is let's dive into a
• 11:31
  couple of these quotes that are out here at least in part because I do
• 11:33
  think from a Bob Huggins standpoint of putting quotes out and it's on paper.
• 11:39
  We haven't heard Bob Huggins speak on this. We haven't heard Gordon Gees speak
• 11:41
  on this, and we haven't heard rend Baker speak on this. We've only
• 11:43
  seen written statements thus far. But the ones from Bob Huggins have been as
• 11:48
  about as straightforward as you can get, which was warranted in this situation.
• 11:52
  Same from the university, but let's pull a couple pieces out here as it
• 11:56
  relates to the decision that came down yesterday. First from the University, the
• 12:01
  university wrote, we will use this moment to educate how the casual use of
• 12:05
  inflammatory language and implicit bias affect our culture, our community, and our health
• 12:11
  and well being. That's important because of the stipulations that were put forth to
• 12:16
  Bob Huggins, both on the monetary reduction of his salary with those funds going
• 12:22
  to various groups around campus and around the state. Important at number two,
• 12:26
  the requirement for Bob Huggins that he meet with these groups to understand the issues
• 12:31
  that are going through and what those meant. If you go through Bob Huggins
• 12:35
  statement again just reading these in part. If you're listening to this program,
• 12:39
  most likely you have seen these in their entirety, but here's a couple of
• 12:41
  them that stood out. One says, I've had several conversations with colleagues and
• 12:48
  friends that I deeply respect and admire over the last twenty four hours, and
• 12:50
  I am keenly aware of the pain that I've caused. I meant what I
• 12:54
  wrote on Monday, I will do better. I am looking forward to working
• 12:58
  with WVUS, l GBTQ Plus Center and other state organizations to learn more about
• 13:03
  the issues facing the community. As a leader, I'm eager to use my
• 13:07
  platform to take what I learn and share it with a broader audience. So
• 13:11
  I think, as you look at this now moving forward, it has landed
• 13:15
  where it's landed, and now moving forward, can there be good that comes
• 13:20
  out of a horrific situation for a lot of people? And I think now
• 13:22
  it's incumbent upon first and foremost, obviously Bob Huggins to live up to what
• 13:28
  he said in those statements, that it wasn't just a statement in passing.
• 13:31
  And then you move on and you go off basketball season, and this stuff
• 13:33
  never comes. So it's incumbent on Hugs to go forth with this and show
• 13:37
  that he meant what he wrote, as he said verbatim, I meant what
• 13:39
  I wrote on Monday. Secondarily, I think it's incumbent upon the Board of
• 13:43
  Governors in President Gee to make sure and rend Baker for that matter, that
• 13:46
  those groups make sure that this stuff gets enacted and there can come some learning
• 13:52
  and some understanding and help these groups move forward in what their mission is and
• 13:56
  some understanding. So I think that's where I land today. We could go
• 14:00
  back and forth, we could take a million texts on should or should not,
• 14:03
  and we'll never get to a resolution. This was the resolution that was
• 14:07
  determined by the university, accepted by Bock Huggins. Now, I think this
• 14:11
  matters to do all of those parties involved, take what has happened and move
• 14:16
  to use a bad sports analogy, move the ball down the field, and
• 14:20
  advance all of this learning for people. There are a lot of people that
• 14:22
  are hurt by these comments, including some student athletes, faculty, staff,
• 14:26
  prospective students. Right, there's a lot of work to be done here.
• 14:30
  Both parties, at least from the written word, seem to be serious about
• 14:33
  this. Now we'll see if those actions back up the words, and it's
• 14:37
  just gonna be a matter of time as that proceeds. So that's the takeaway.
• 14:43
  I think Hoppy obviously has thoughts as well, and when we get back
• 14:48
  into the studio together next week, we will address it more. And I
• 14:52
  would think that there will be more as this goes on based upon what the
• 14:58
  university detailed and what hug has said that he is ready to do. It
• 15:03
  will have a carryover effect. All right, coming up, we're going to
• 15:07
  jump into our conversation with John Spiker and so let me do a little let
• 15:13
  me do a little bit of this on John Spiker. And this is good
• 15:18
  that he's not here because, as you'll hear when we start the interview with
• 15:22
  him, I was weary of doing the interview because he's unbelievably humble and as
• 15:31
  a result, you can't get into the true impact that he has had in
• 15:37
  his career. I mean, he is truly a West Virginia icon and a
• 15:46
  national treasure in his world of athletic training. So to put it into context,
• 15:52
  I mean he's the Johnny apple Seed of athletic training in the state of
• 15:56
  West Virginia. He created the athletic training program at WVU, built the curriculum
• 16:03
  which has become the WVUM Athletic Training Program, has become one of the nation's
• 16:08
  best, and it has produced people literally across the world at the highest levels
• 16:12
  of athletic training. He was the dude. He was also the dude.
• 16:15
  And so that's the academic side we're talking about. That's just one piece.
• 16:18
  That was the academic, But he was also the athletic trainer early on in
• 16:23
  his career at North Carolina for Dean Smith at West Virginia, from Bobby Bowden
• 16:30
  to Dana Holgersson. Now like the athletic trainer position, So let me try
• 16:37
  to put it like this. They're there before practice, and they're there after
• 16:42
  practice, and they're there when there isn't practice, and never mind during practice,
• 16:48
  not continuously seven it's seven days a week. It's seven days a week
• 16:53
  from literally from the first of August all the way till the season's over.
• 17:00
  So he has had access to all of those coaches and access to every Mountaineer
• 17:03
  player from Bowden through Dana Holgerson, close access, close conversations with almost every
• 17:08
  one of them. There's no one. No one today that's around here that
• 17:15
  has had that, that's still with us. No one. You can't say,
• 17:19
  well, don Neil is here at nineteen and now, so go keep
• 17:22
  going backward. Who who had direct daily contact with every Mountaineer coach and every
• 17:27
  Mountaineer football player from Bobby Bowden to Dana Holgerus. They know what the answer
• 17:32
  is, zero, no one. So we're talking about the lives that he's
• 17:40
  touched, the young student athletes that he has put on their way, healed
• 17:45
  physically and mentally, because his humble nature is his greatest attributes. And so
• 17:53
  like, if you could talk to any Mountaineer football player, We've got listeners
• 17:56
  that know a lot of four Mountaineer football players, they'll just say just say
• 18:00
  like, hey, what was it like with Spike And they'll just like they'll
• 18:03
  glow because he was the dude. He was the dude. So I start
• 18:10
  the conversation by telling him like, Dude, I don't know if I should
• 18:11
  have Yon here, because you're always like, well, actually it was this
• 18:14
  person or that personnel. Really you're the dude. National Hall of Fame.
• 18:18
  Just last weekend, one of six distinguished alumni here at West Virginia he's in
• 18:22
  the Order of the Vandelia, he's in the National Athletic Trainers Hall of Fame.
• 18:27
  He's like, he's the dude. I'm going to tell you he's the
• 18:30
  dude. He's the dude, and he's one of the best. So we
• 18:33
  were it was great to just kind of bounce stuff around with him. We
• 18:37
  went all over the place. We went, you know, like big favorite
• 18:40
  play, favorite player, greatest athlete, toughest athlete, biggest injury. We
• 18:44
  just jump all over the place. It was good practice insights because I think
• 18:47
  that's one of the parts where those folks that are around is you just mentioned
• 18:51
  it very well there every day, every practice, watching guys through all those
• 18:56
  years. No one has more contact with the athletes than the trainers then the
• 19:00
  athletic trainers do. Before we get into that, I told you so the
• 19:08
  folks at Gomart, right, did you know this? Mark this date on
• 19:12
  your calendar next week, a week from today. It's May eighteenth, as
• 19:18
  I love Rese's Day. Invented in nineteen twenty eight, Rec's is one of
• 19:22
  the top selling candies and Gomart has a coupon on their app where you can
• 19:26
  save two dollars when you buy four rece's products. That's enough for you to
• 19:30
  have one and then send one to each of the three guys, which is
• 19:33
  kind of nice. So download the app today. Go to gomart dot com
• 19:38
  slash three guys. So, when I was in Glade Springs the other night,
• 19:45
  my good buddy Coach Mark Montgomery, Sure Liberty, Raleigh, he sent
• 19:49
  us Swaga, Taylor, I sent you a pictures either. Yeah, there
• 19:52
  he is. So that's Coach Montgomery. So Coach Montgomery's on the left.
• 19:56
  Coach Montgomery's on the left, and and he gave me a pack of these
• 20:02
  recy big cups. But he also gave me a sleeve that had like six
• 20:07
  in them. So guess what I did on the way home. Did you
• 20:10
  already crush us all six? You didn't bring an m back? Nope,
• 20:12
  I'm giving you these though you got the big cups. Coach Montgomery, Liberty
• 20:17
  shout out, thank you very much. It always takes care of us.
• 20:19
  Receive this as well. Last week to the building, guys, I thought
• 20:23
  you'd enjoy some of the best Oh no, this is you. I thought
• 20:30
  I thought you guys would enjoy some of the best buck Eyes I've come across
• 20:33
  since moving from Tay's Valley to Columbus last summer. These are Anthony Thomas Chocolates
• 20:37
  Buck Eyes. I must say the peanut butter to chocolate ratio is that he
• 20:41
  said insert throat clock. Excellent or yeah, pretty good, Tony was great
• 20:47
  catching up with you on Monday night in Charleston. Lastly, yes, let's
• 20:52
  do meet up on a Tuesday at Daniels. Brad will be there, of
• 20:55
  course, prepping a mannequin or folding something. Hoppy will be nowhere near the
• 20:59
  joint tuesdays of Daniels Enjoy Jeff Deal fantastic, already had one of those.
• 21:03
  They are excellent. And then this and we talk about the peanut butter ratio,
• 21:10
  and then the rec cups. This is a three guys before the game.
• 21:15
  It says on this container, three guys before the game efforted from the
• 21:18
  love Joys and Collodin brought us some peanut butter fudge that basically is like,
• 21:26
  well, let me get the knife out, because we've already started on it.
• 21:30
  It's like it's like a it's like a recy cut. It's the whole
• 21:33
  thing's a recy cup. I think you're supposed to do that. Pit We
• 21:34
  should probably should have waited to eat till we were done. I don't think
• 21:37
  you showed the full picture. We're ready to go. Hey Taylor, you
• 21:41
  got that other picture before we rolled this bean videos. By the way,
• 21:44
  thank you to all of those folks. Love all of it. I'll eat
• 21:47
  all of it. Terrific. Oh yeah, Kirchival has made it to the
• 21:49
  Pacific Ocean. That is where is that? That is? Uh? That
• 21:55
  is what's the beat with the with an m? Well, what did he
• 21:59
  say it was? Is it? Is it Monterey? Is that what it
• 22:03
  is? That sounds right anyway? So that that's not it? Like,
• 22:06
  that's not a photoshop picture. Our boy, our boy Dave Um sent this
• 22:12
  one out and uh, this has been here. It is right here here,
• 22:17
  it is here, it is here. It is Huntington Beach, California.
• 22:21
  Okay, good, happy hour, May the ninth in Orange County.
• 22:26
  That's truly a Kirchivel can in the ocean and there near the ocean, near
• 22:30
  the Pacific Ocean. So from where to Welch Martinsburg to mat Jan and Huntington
• 22:36
  Beach, Kirchivel is present. And lastly, here's the picture of Kirchiell there
• 22:44
  he is on screen. I mean, we just feel certainly sending him sympathies.
• 22:52
  Thank you very much, Taylor, you can we'll get hope you'll get
• 22:56
  back here soon. I think the world that little guy and hate to see
• 22:59
  that happen. But you know it was at Thomas Jefferson, so it's a
• 23:03
  political thing for him, so it's probably like right, it's right in this.
• 23:07
  It's too bad that ruined the trip for him, though, Well,
• 23:10
  let's good. How did they get him out of there a life light?
• 23:12
  I think No, I've just made that up. I'm just just being since
• 23:17
  the car couldn't have been close, he has to just limp back. Well,
• 23:21
  no, you're not that far away when you're at Monticello. Now,
• 23:25
  if he was out in like six miles in, they probably would have had
• 23:27
  a Senate rescue crew out in there if he was on the Appalachian Trail.
• 23:30
  But this happened just probably like just outside of where the general people walk around
• 23:34
  at Monticello. We'll got the deal a ways away, isn't it on a
• 23:38
  broken foot? Way just to walk back on a broken foot. Karen probably
• 23:41
  put him on her on her back and carried him out of there. Probably,
• 23:45
  I don't know. They called medic or something. Three guys before the
• 23:49
  game were ought to us by Lou Wendell Marine Sales, the single largest pontoon
• 23:52
  boat dealer in the state of West Virginia. Can visit them at Lou Wendell
• 23:56
  Marine Sales dot com. Wind the Marine Sales. Now, it tis the
• 24:00
  season. You're going out yet? Boat just arrived from what I am told,
• 24:04
  So no answer, no out soon? What do you mean it just
• 24:08
  arrived? I was in storage they put for the winner. Are they ones
• 24:12
  that put like that big huge suran wrap around it? Do they do that?
• 24:15
  You ever see those? Yeah? No, just covered and it's somewhere
• 24:18
  elements. Those suran wraps are kind of neat to see when you're driving down
• 24:22
  the road. Right, You just wanted like, how do the hell do
• 24:25
  they get all that suran wrap on that thing? It's so nice and tight
• 24:27
  on that pontoon boat and they think it right from that like container wrapping around
• 24:33
  exact there to cut it off. Yeah, they go down to Sam's.
• 24:36
  They give them big roles, big roles of that suran rap. I haven't
• 24:38
  been out, but it's cunning. Sin okay, very good. Check out
• 24:41
  Lou Windaw Marine Sales in Saint Albans, lou Windaw Marine Sales dot Com.
• 24:45
  All right, without any further excuse me, without any further ado, let's
• 24:52
  jump in our conversation. John Spiker visits three guys before the game. Alrighty,
• 25:03
  it is time. Let's get this thing rolling. Our summer series continues
• 25:07
  here on three guys before the game. I must admit at center, I'm
• 25:12
  gonna tell you this. I was hesitant. I was hesitant. I wasn't
• 25:17
  sure. Was that I wasn't sure. I wasn't sure whether to do this
• 25:21
  or not for one reason like sometimes, as you know, when you go
• 25:26
  like should we bring so and so on to interview? Well, you know,
• 25:32
  great, but it doesn't speak that well, so it probably won't come
• 25:34
  across that great. So probably And that wasn't the problem. Let's just talk
• 25:40
  like he's not here. That wasn't a problem. That wasn't a problem with
• 25:42
  it. Right that My hesitancy was, and I've known him now almost a
• 25:49
  whisker away from forty years, is that he would be problem that you and
• 25:56
  I don't have. He'd be too humble. Well that's that's a fair point,
• 26:00
  right, And I thought, well, yeah, I thought, well
• 26:03
  we can come up with this great questions and stuff, and he'll go,
• 26:06
  well, actually that was this PERI, that was that person. So so
• 26:11
  here's the deal. You're on call. You better be braggadocious, cocky and
• 26:17
  arrogant. Is that fair? Fair for him? Fair? How are you?
• 26:21
  Spike? Good? It's good. That's good to him. I mean,
• 26:23
  this is good, this is this is I've been looking forward to this
• 26:26
  very much, and so I started to in my mind think about all of
• 26:36
  the many, many things that you have done in your career and one thing,
• 26:42
  and we're gonna bounce all over as you will as a listener of this
• 26:45
  podcast, you know we may not be chronological or linear or that in our
• 26:51
  approach, but I had this thought the other day. You were an athletic
• 26:56
  trainer from Bobby Bowden through Dana Holgerson. Now let's stop and put that into
• 27:07
  perspective. Let me say it again. Bobby Bowden through Dana Holgerson. That
• 27:15
  means Bobby Bowden, Frank Signetti, Donnelin, Rich, Rod, Bill Stewart,
• 27:26
  Dana and the evolution of West Virginia football. Yes, and there you
• 27:33
  were day in, and I mean day in and day out, watching every
• 27:40
  single practice, having contact every single day with the coaches and the players that
• 27:48
  have come through and being there behind the scenes in the locker rooms. The
• 27:55
  public things that we know, the games, but the stories that go on
• 28:00
  behind all of that. And to add to that, before the football while
• 28:07
  at the University of North Carolina as a young athletic trainer, you worked for
• 28:11
  a coach by the name of Dean Smith. I've heard of him. So
• 28:15
  you you went, you you went go back to back there? Yeah,
• 28:21
  now you went. Dean Smith, Bobby Bowden, Bill Bill Dooley, Bill
• 28:27
  Dooley at UNC at the same time. Who later went on he was at
• 28:33
  Virginia Tach Vince's brother, Vince Dooley's brother. Is it Is it a correct
• 28:38
  statement that you attended the same churches as Bobby Bowden and Dean Smith? Yes?
• 28:45
  Yes, so think of so to me, I like, I don't.
• 28:48
  This is one of those deals like how do you eat an elephant?
• 28:51
  Like one bite at a time? Like where where do you go? Where
• 28:53
  do you go from here? Real quick? How the number of people that
• 28:56
  worked for or with Dean Smith and Bobby Bowden has to be what's your group
• 29:03
  there? It might be him, it might be you, Uh, probably
• 29:07
  you know, there was a two winning coaches and basketball one time, so
• 29:15
  that was is that the all time? Okay, so let's jump in on
• 29:18
  that deal. If I were to ask you, what was that one thing
• 29:23
  about Dean Smith that you think and stands out to you that made him as
• 29:30
  successful as he was. What would one thing be? Fairness? I mean
• 29:34
  just absolute believed in being fair at everything he did. But that does not
• 29:42
  mean he didn't hold people accountable. I mean that does mean he helped people
• 29:47
  accountable as a matter of fact. But he what he really wanted to make
• 29:52
  a point. He would talk lower. He went the opposite. He'd bring
• 29:57
  the team together like quieter I mean yeah, and he would talk lower.
• 30:03
  So you know, we'd better be here at one o'clock tomorrow. You know,
• 30:06
  it wasn't get your butt in here, wasn't that It was Yeah.
• 30:11
  So it's kind of like the parent that does that sometimes too. A parent
• 30:14
  can go like drop it all the way down, which flips the kid out
• 30:17
  even more than the high right, And when you go like, yeah,
• 30:21
  so here's what we're gonna do, and they go like, oh yeah,
• 30:26
  we better we better be putting another ear in there and listening. Really,
• 30:30
  when you say fair, does that mean he treated everyone the same or he
• 30:36
  treated people fairly? Well, let's just say when Phil Ford came as a
• 30:41
  freshman, uh, and he had to make time. He had to make
• 30:47
  time just like everybody else in the mile and the mile, and he literally
• 30:52
  dived across the line to make the time at the end cinders at all,
• 30:56
  I mean, and if he weren't ready to plu he wouldn't play. Now,
• 31:00
  Walter Davis the year before, about these names, Walter Davis comes in
• 31:07
  the year before and Holly acclaimed and you know this that's Hubert's uncle by the
• 31:11
  way, right, And uh, Walter was everybody knew he was a great
• 31:15
  player. But we had a guy named John O'Donnell who had started the year
• 31:18
  before. John was mediocre at best. You know, he was just a
• 31:23
  guy filled the role. He was a role player. Uh And uh Walter
• 31:29
  didn't start until we knew the defenses, and that was he wasn't going to
• 31:33
  Now I don't know how long he would have gone with that. He still
• 31:37
  had him in there and early enough to score seven points in seventeen seconds and
• 31:42
  beat the duke and a game. You know that was to me and as
• 31:47
  I said, bounce around. Growing up, I never saw a team like
• 31:52
  North Carolina make comebacks like North Carolina. Now, this is obviously a different
• 31:57
  game. At that point in regard to time and media timeouts, they didn't
• 32:01
  exist. Dean Smith was absolutely Mozart and Beethoven put together when it came to
• 32:08
  management of games. Every like they're they're down nine, you go like,
• 32:13
  they're gonna find a way one way to do that. This is before the
• 32:15
  three point shot. And if I say we, because I was there,
• 32:21
  if we got a one point lead, we knew we were gonna win.
• 32:24
  You just knew that you were in control if you if you ever took the
• 32:28
  lead, you might be behind. How Like you say, by nine,
• 32:32
  you catch up. But if you get that, you don't need to have
• 32:35
  a nine point lead for you to win. That's the chokehole. You just
• 32:37
  need to get ahead. The one point leads a chokehole. Yeah, okay,
• 32:40
  again, you had Phil Ford running four quarters. You know you had
• 32:45
  some stuff happening for gave us a four corners four corners earlier in the year
• 32:49
  before we had Mitch cup Check and ye were before that. Bobby Jones,
• 32:52
  Bobby Jones was good. Oh, Bobby Jones was the greatest, mean,
• 32:58
  one of the great dunkers. Like he he dunked angrily. Uh, a
• 33:01
  little bit of reflection like the nil stuff today. I mean they had an
• 33:07
  old car that they just passed around to each senior that was coming back.
• 33:12
  Jones had it one run, you're an old Chevy, and then cup Chack
• 33:15
  had it the next year. And I don't know, now were these violations
• 33:19
  at this time? Uh, I don't, I don't know. Somebody had
• 33:23
  guess it had to be someone owned it and they would just pass it on.
• 33:27
  Yeah, well that's futuristic things brown a car, Yeah, it's not
• 33:34
  understand transportation. Yes, so that's for our younger listeners out there. No
• 33:38
  shot clocks. So North Carolina was masterful at the four corners offense. They
• 33:43
  just want, like you said, you get the one point lead. They
• 33:45
  spread the floor. It's like you're not going to get the ball, but
• 33:46
  they pass cut and three point shot. Yeah, that's all okay. So
• 33:51
  that's Smith Bowden hold on before before we leave Dean Smith. So when we
• 33:55
  say Dean Smith to you, you're enduring image. What image of Dean Smith
• 34:01
  comes to your mind when we say it or you hear the name is something
• 34:05
  at practice? Is it on the bench? Is it sitting in his office?
• 34:09
  What image comes to mind of Dean Smith. We had a really tough
• 34:13
  situation one night in practice kid that really uh well, actually it was a
• 34:19
  first night of practice for this kid's freshman year and it's still Ford's classmate and
• 34:24
  uh cup Jack and uh ed stalls. So people had really got to his
• 34:30
  brain about the boy first day of practice. You mean I'm making through,
• 34:32
  you know, it's it's really hard, always scared to death and you know
• 34:39
  a lot of heats. There's there's so many emotion to that, you know,
• 34:45
  so uh yeah, he started really going to the tank quickly and so
• 34:49
  much. I probably should have react a little more quickly, but you know,
• 34:52
  I didn't want to be an alarmist with Dean Smith players, so uh
• 34:58
  but then it got really bad, and as crazy as it sounds now,
• 35:02
  I just threw him in the car. I said, come on, we're
• 35:05
  going, and of course he's really sick, and we gave him the hospital
• 35:10
  and he had three bags of fluid, and that's unheard of. I don't
• 35:14
  know that we ever gave anybody three bags of fluid here at w V immediately,
• 35:17
  so Tommy he was sick, and I had to call one physician on
• 35:23
  the way just to tell him, hey, we're on the way to the
• 35:25
  hospital, and got this and this and this and and didn't get the physician
• 35:30
  that wanted to be called in that situation. One physician didn't. He didn't
• 35:36
  didn't approve of that. But it didn't matter. I knew he had a
• 35:38
  life in dusk situation to what I thought we had. And just I mean,
• 35:45
  Dean Smith calls me daughter that night, tells you what a great job
• 35:49
  I got a manager coming over cleaning out your car. I just fantastic.
• 35:52
  And I said, well, I a problem with one doc and he said,
• 35:54
  don't ever worry about him again. Dan was fair, was there and
• 36:02
  the guy was still around. But yeah, he had That was a big
• 36:06
  mistake that doctor made because he wanted so badly to be there, he forgot
• 36:10
  about the kid's safety. Sure, absolutely, yeah, so, but Dean
• 36:15
  Smith was always very supportive. When I told him I was leaving to come
• 36:19
  to West Virginia, he said, well, I hope, I hope you
• 36:23
  can find a church you like as much as Binkley, which was named of
• 36:27
  the church that we both happened to go there too. I don't know if
• 36:30
  that's any that's fake or not, but I mean it really seems sincere to
• 36:34
  me because well, one Sunday evening, we both happened to be in this
• 36:39
  church service. And you know, it was basically not a church service.
• 36:44
  It was the community wanted to find out about the basketball team, That's all
• 36:47
  it really was. So Walter had actually had a thigh injury and they asked
• 36:55
  him about the thigh injury, and coach Smith so well, our trainers over
• 37:00
  there just ask him. So, I mean, I was a young guide.
• 37:05
  I don't know why he seemingly trusted me, but I got one really
• 37:13
  crazy story about that. I don't mean to talk so much about you and
• 37:15
  see, but but uh we had a an old time trainer there that uh,
• 37:22
  I mean really been around a long time, but he was kind of
• 37:27
  behind and in what was happening. And we had this sigh injury that I
• 37:35
  knew did not need the treatment that he was prescribing. Yeah, we go.
• 37:38
  So, I mean, Okay, what are you gonna do? We're
• 37:43
  trying to keep Dean Smith's player on the court or you know, we're not
• 37:47
  you know, what are you gonna do. So I would hook them,
• 37:51
  put the machine on, and then unplug it. And so we got the
• 37:57
  guy. Well, the guy never the old trainer never knew what we did.
• 38:00
  The old unplugged. Was that unplugged a step machine there? It was
• 38:05
  a diathermi accident and I want to diatherm to see. Yeah, you know,
• 38:08
  so that would rank right up there with unplugging the hydroculator. But that's
• 38:13
  that's that's a whole different story. So Bobby Bowden, Yeah, what's the
• 38:17
  one standout thing? Because you could make the case that Bobby Bowden learned how
• 38:22
  to be a head coach at West Virginia and then mastered the arts at Florida
• 38:28
  State Fair or not, Well, he had learned it before I got here,
• 38:30
  because keep in mind he had been a head coach what three or four
• 38:35
  years before. Yeah, so he was hunging auf Forgie the year before we
• 38:38
  got here. So uh, yeah, I guess you could make that case.
• 38:43
  I thought he knew how to be a coach though when I was here.
• 38:45
  I mean, he he really did. He he had a way with
• 38:51
  his players and his assistant coaches. H he was in charge, but he
• 38:57
  just kind of walked around like a little general on a field, you know,
• 39:00
  and had he's notepad and he's doing this and that. Could you tell
• 39:06
  did you sense at that time that this guy was going to become the winningest
• 39:09
  coach in the history of the game. Never would have dreamed it, not
• 39:15
  without no offense to him. I just hadn't thought of him being at that
• 39:20
  elite level. He probably didn't either, probably not, probably not. Why
• 39:25
  do you think it happened? Now? I know he goes to Florida State
• 39:28
  and wins all. What do you think it was that was able for him
• 39:31
  to sustain it? Well? I think I think Mama loved him. I
• 39:37
  think he got in the house and it was a great sell and uh so,
• 39:45
  you know, you only need a couple of Charlie Wards and all of
• 39:46
  a sudden it takes off and I don't know, I he he is there
• 39:53
  again, very sincere, very fair, believable, just really believable. Uh
• 40:02
  yeah. I never heard him say a curse word ever, not one.
• 40:07
  No. And Tommy, his son, tells, he's never never drank a
• 40:10
  beer in his life. I mean, it wasn't hard for him. That's
• 40:15
  just the way he lived. You know, he didn't he didn't have any
• 40:22
  vices whatsoever. Always funny because he was funny. Was he always funny?
• 40:27
  He could find humor in situations that weren't necessarily very funny. Dad Gummus knows
• 40:35
  that he came out with one of those things and that was the extent of
• 40:37
  it. Yeah, yeah, but he would he could dad gum you when
• 40:40
  you were trying to do something right too. You know, he was good.
• 40:45
  He was just really really good. It just appreciative now from a staff
• 40:50
  standpoint, very appreciative everything you did. You know, we had some guys
• 41:00
  I needed some rehab, I thought when I got here, and uh so
• 41:04
  it not a old stadium, you know, I didn't know to training,
• 41:07
  and i'd really was getting on some guys pretty good about you know, kick
• 41:10
  Carter, kick Harter and rehab you know, and and uh once away,
• 41:15
  I'd stick his head in there where you're working, boss, but young guys
• 41:20
  getting after and uh yeah, it brings back. You know, we just
• 41:25
  lost Dave and Hallinger and Dave was a He's had a lot of chronic knee
• 41:31
  stuff and we were able to get help him get through that period and had
• 41:37
  pretty good year. You know. That offensive line was really good. Yeah,
• 41:42
  with uh, yeah, Dave and Tom Brandner. It was, by
• 41:45
  the way, his son played at Duke a couple of years ago and he
• 41:49
  did great. And uh Lewinsky. Yeah, it's amazing when you think about
• 41:54
  it now of the technology, the medical technology exist that exists now that allows
• 42:01
  players to number one, know how to train and then be treated in a
• 42:08
  whole different way than they were when you first started out. I mean,
• 42:13
  are you know scoping people and all of those things. I mean it's night
• 42:16
  and day because a lot of times those major knee injuries were like a I
• 42:20
  mean that was a end career type thing, right, absolutely, and even
• 42:24
  a scope scope, the best you could do is get somebody back in six
• 42:30
  weeks because keep in mind, that's a cut in the skin, that's open
• 42:32
  surgery that's going in there and digging it out. Didn't have MRIs. You
• 42:37
  did manual technique to determine what was what you thought was wrong, and I
• 42:44
  think evaluation skills were much better than because you were dependent upon what you could
• 42:50
  find. Now it's oh well now they were in an MRI before they leave
• 42:52
  the field. Yeah seriously, Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right. Yeah,
• 42:57
  you've done this a couple of times now, and it's similar to win
• 43:00
  when your boil over here, it gets going on on numbers and hometowns of
• 43:02
  people. You've you've said names of former players a long way back, and
• 43:07
  you remember specific injuries. I won't ask you to do it, but if
• 43:09
  I started naming former Mountaineer players, is that what comes to your mind first?
• 43:14
  More than their number, more than they're playing. You have a catalog
• 43:16
  of their injuries. Now that's a great question. Some some I won't say,
• 43:21
  I'm as good as I'd probably disappoint you if we went through what about
• 43:23
  about what about Larry Holly? Larry Holly, I had some bad feet.
• 43:30
  Larry had some bad feet. You've ever seen? They were right there?
• 43:35
  He does he'd make a top five top five, Yeah, absolutely yeah,
• 43:37
  and he you know, he made it all the way through his season here
• 43:43
  had the big interception against pen and State same day it Rich intercepted one that
• 43:45
  same game, remember that four eighty four. So uh yeah, but then
• 43:52
  then playing uh in pro ball. He soon had a ruptut achilles, which
• 43:58
  was sure that you have bad feet, you have everything. It's gonna be
• 44:05
  an indicator problem. If your feet are a problem, it goes well.
• 44:07
  Once your feet turn one way, it tworks the killing the other way,
• 44:12
  and you know you're just setting yourself. Okay, let's do this. No
• 44:15
  Hippa rules at all. The statue of limitations completely over. What was Major
• 44:21
  Harris's injury in the Fiesta Bowl. Yeah, the second, second to third
• 44:27
  degree. There's first degree, second agree, third degree. A chromeo clivicular
• 44:31
  joint brains is where your clavical comes across and meets the scapuo and first degree
• 44:37
  it's just a sprain. But then then it starts raising over here my finger
• 44:40
  raising it up, but uh so it gets separated and uh even though that
• 44:49
  was his left arm, you're still just even take the snap. There's a
• 44:52
  lot of motion there. So it happens and you see it all the time.
• 44:58
  Now people land on her shoulder and so it can break the clavicle,
• 45:05
  or it can cause ac joint or chromeicivocutor joint disruption and that can be first
• 45:10
  degree, second degree, third degree. This was probably a third degree.
• 45:15
  It probably was. He tried to get it out. He he was tough
• 45:22
  with it. I mean he was a tough guy. I mean too he
• 45:25
  wanted to play. Yeah, and you guys tried, you tried at halftime
• 45:32
  as medically as much as you could do to dull the pain. Yeah,
• 45:37
  yeah, there was some things done then couldn't be done now probably, And
• 45:44
  he tried to go, did you know, like so you're trying to fix
• 45:47
  players on the fly in that game? Eighty eight Festival was amazingly physical.
• 45:53
  We had lost more guys, remember those offensive line in those concussions, guys
• 45:59
  getting just rocked. So when the game is happening and you know this is
• 46:05
  the quarterback and it's for the National Championship, do you have that voice that
• 46:09
  comes into your head that goes like we're screwed. Yeah, it's I you'd
• 46:15
  like to say, well, just let's just be a medical person and not
• 46:20
  be emotionally involved in a game. I could never do that. I mean
• 46:22
  it was you're you're doing you're kind of both, you know, And yeah,
• 46:30
  I mean I knew he had that injury. Uh. I wasn't sure
• 46:35
  of what degree it was until we got him inside, and you could just
• 46:37
  say that thing popped away up there. I mean they sometimes they're up there
• 46:42
  an inch you know, they're an inch above and they're separated out much it
• 46:46
  needs to be down there just doesn't work. You know, so sometimes they
• 46:52
  do surgery on them. Uh, usually they do. Now they put them
• 46:58
  down here. But yeah, it was not good. The only thing worse
• 47:00
  would have benefit had been his right arm. But still he couldn't. He
• 47:04
  just couldn't take the snaps. Yeah, and if he fell on it again,
• 47:08
  it just wasn't gonna be good. Stay on Major for a second,
• 47:12
  back up, because I think the other part of your experience is, so
• 47:15
  he saw all those games, but you saw hundreds or thousands more practices.
• 47:20
  Thousands, right, that's really yeah, really where the fascinating part of this
• 47:25
  comes in. When when do you remember Major and you saying not anybody's telling
• 47:30
  you, but you saying, oh my gosh, look at this guy.
• 47:34
  When did that moment hit? It was freshman red shirt year. Yeah,
• 47:38
  yeah, same same class, and they were both good, but Major was
• 47:44
  like ridiculous. It was just I'm really not sure why they red shirt him.
• 47:49
  Looking back, Uh, who was the quarterback? Just part of it,
• 47:54
  Mike Timko. So I don't know why they no offense to Mike,
• 47:59
  But I don't know why Major wasn't playing in number. He was immediate,
• 48:01
  Like first couple of practices you saw him take off you're like, oh my
• 48:05
  gosh. Well, here's the thing about Major. He wasn't super fast unless
• 48:07
  he gave him the ball, he runs fast. He needed to right exactly,
• 48:13
  he put shoulder pads on and give him a ball. Here out running
• 48:15
  anybody. Yeah, time Prince wouldn't impress you that much. Well, your
• 48:21
  time him in the forty might run four eight if he decides to. Well,
• 48:24
  dway Wallace always says he only he only turned his green light on when
• 48:30
  there was a competition, so they would have to customize drills to make it
• 48:35
  seem like a competition for Major, Like instead of just throwing these outs,
• 48:38
  now we're gonna put a garbage can over there. How many of you of
• 48:40
  those can you put into the garbage can? That to him was like,
• 48:44
  okay, we're playing like he he was not a weight room guy, right.
• 48:49
  Uh no, no, no, he just like, I don't need
• 48:52
  I don't want to play that game. I don't want to play that game.
• 48:54
  Um. He went in the weight room as he passed through on the
• 48:58
  way, Well, let me ask you mentioned Bowden and then coach Signetti came
• 49:05
  through and then they make the change to don Kneelan. So here we go
• 49:09
  you were in the old stadium. Now you moved to the new stadium,
• 49:13
  and now here comes this Don Kneelan guy, and things are about to get
• 49:17
  really interesting. He goes six wins his first year, then he goes nine
• 49:21
  nine, nine, and his second, third, and fourth. Yeah,
• 49:24
  that's pretty amazing. Eastern Independent back in that day, when did you go
• 49:30
  like, oh, this guy's got it. Oh, probably second year,
• 49:43
  probably second year. Let's see. Jeff was what his third year? Yeah,
• 49:47
  eighty two? Yeah. Wow? Why was he good? Why was
• 49:53
  Don Kneelen good? He was organized. Uh. You know when a new
• 50:05
  coach comes in, they come in with all this uh plan or this this
• 50:12
  uh it scares the players a little bit. They're not sure what to expect,
• 50:15
  and uh, you know he had that. He came in and you
• 50:20
  need to do it by way because I know, I've bet at Michigan.
• 50:22
  I know what I'm doing. So he kind of got their confidence there.
• 50:25
  He had a good coaching staff, Denny Brown and Bob Simmons and Mike Jacobs
• 50:30
  and Russ Jakes. Yea, yeah, yeah, a good bunch. Doc
• 50:36
  dune Lap, I mean you think about that, it's like the Who's who?
• 50:38
  Yeah, it was good. It was a good staff and uh so,
• 50:43
  but really, I you know, at eighty two he had Jeff and
• 50:47
  I mean we got excited about that eighty two season. You remember, we
• 50:51
  couldn't wait to play Penn State and he throws at pick six for didn't work
• 50:55
  out so well. Uh about then eighty three it was really good. And
• 51:00
  by the way, that's one of my favorite plays ever was the naked boot
• 51:07
  that hass ran against Pitt. Yeah, they'd beaten his eighth straight years.
• 51:10
  Yeah, that was that wasn't the same as the play with Major, but
• 51:15
  it was a great quarterback play. Yeah. Yeah. I would imagine for
• 51:21
  a guy that grew up in Preston County to see this program go from where
• 51:28
  it was in the old field to the new field and Don comes in and
• 51:32
  it was, like I said, nine, nine and nine. And then
• 51:36
  we had the Penn State victory in eighty four for the first time since the
• 51:40
  late fifties. And then to get to the National Championship Game and to have
• 51:46
  all of that success that had to be an unbelievably proud moment for ye.
• 51:52
  So much fun, so much fun. And yeah, so eighty three were
• 51:59
  pretty good. Eighty four we're you know that was the year we've the finally
• 52:04
  signed you beat those guys and uh yeah, eighty eight was ridiculous. I
• 52:13
  mean, do we have a do we have a close game? I mean
• 52:15
  we really didn't. Virginia Tech guy within twelve points Maryland Maryland here scored twice
• 52:20
  early and then just turned the table on him and then rolled him. Yeah,
• 52:23
  I mean we didn't. We just wasn't even close. And uh,
• 52:28
  Penn State, I mean we're up by how much at halftime? Thanks to
• 52:31
  Andrew Johnson of course, getting the last friend of the reference undercalled me this
• 52:38
  morning and said I want to eight eighty eight season starting center Kevin Cokin,
• 52:45
  who was just fantastic on crutches the whole week before the Syracuse game, and
• 52:51
  said, I don't care, I'm playing. And I would imagine through the
• 52:55
  year, Spike, you had guys that start on Sundays or Mondays that look
• 53:00
  like there's like so here it is the greatest Lazarus, the greatest Lazarus moments
• 53:07
  of all time. Who looked look they who looked like in your mind,
• 53:10
  you have some guys that went like I cannot believe that he was able to
• 53:15
  come back. Yeah. A couple we had Van Anderson defensive back. He
• 53:22
  was, you know, he's safety. Uh, getting ready to play pit
• 53:24
  up to the first game. Uh Anderson Richardson, Van Richardson, Van Van
• 53:30
  Richardson, Van richards or Van Washington Van Washington, Van Washington. Yeah,
• 53:37
  Van Washington. We've had Van. We have a lot of Vans through the
• 53:39
  the late, the late Van Washington. Who's passed away yet, that's right.
• 53:43
  Yeah, Van Washington had a bad ankle and looked like there's no chance
• 53:49
  that's the game that Zerowe ran the first play. Okay, yeah up there
• 53:54
  and yeah, that was that was a surprise. I tell Another one was
• 54:00
  Oliver Luck. I said, we're getting ready play Virginia Tech. And you
• 54:02
  maybe heard Don say that he's talked about that other year because I think I'll
• 54:07
  a thood like two hundred and fifty yards a game. And that didn't look
• 54:13
  like that was going to go well midweek, but we just stayed on it.
• 54:17
  And you know, back then, you did stuff that still works.
• 54:22
  I mean, you do a lot of massage and you just try to do
• 54:25
  everything that doesn't irritate it, and everything in the world you can that you
• 54:30
  can do without irritating it and that's the art of rehab if you really get
• 54:34
  down to it. I mean that's you know, you can do nothing when
• 54:38
  that's not good enough, and you could do too much and that's not good.
• 54:42
  So the key is, okay, finding exactly what you can do without
• 54:46
  irritating it. Yeah, let's jump off the field here for a second.
• 54:52
  No, this will be your humble part, but I don't care define from
• 54:58
  it. You create the athletic training curriculum at West Virginia University, and that
• 55:07
  has become one of the most respected athletic training programs in the country. And
• 55:15
  there are literally hundreds of WV athletic training grads that are working in every line
• 55:23
  of professional and collegiate sport. All those are all fair statements, correct.
• 55:30
  Is that your most proud accomplishment that you were able to plan a seed and
• 55:35
  then watch it grow. I'm not saying you did the whole thing. What
• 55:37
  I'm saying like it was your impetus that created the program, which, as
• 55:45
  they say in Preston County, blowed up. I guess it is. I
• 55:51
  mean, yeah, that was that was neat. I got a call to
• 55:55
  dude, you are interested in having setting up an athletic training education program and
• 56:02
  organizing the athletic training services, which were frankly kind of a mess. Uh
• 56:08
  people in each training room. They weren't speaking to each other, and it
• 56:12
  was like, oh boy, it was a mess. North and South Korea
• 56:15
  can't have that sort of Yeah. So if it had been anywhere but West
• 56:22
  Virginia, I would not have come, because we really were enjoying Chapel Hill
• 56:25
  and I was working with good situation there and but it was so exciting to
• 56:35
  think coming back and doing something at a level that had not been done here
• 56:38
  and kind of frankly needed some help, need some organizational help. Whitey Glenn
• 56:45
  had been he'd had a couple of heart attacks and they're I don't I don't
• 56:50
  know what all had happened, but it wasn't good. And so we got
• 56:55
  an opportunity to come in and say, let's do let's use some common sense
• 57:00
  and get along here and get that going. But the academic program was I
• 57:04
  was able to hire h a guy that had gone to PT School with and
• 57:12
  he came. We hired two guys because people left when I came. I
• 57:15
  guess I guess that says something they saw that things were going to be done.
• 57:22
  Differently, and uh and then again White he had a heart attack and
• 57:25
  UH, so we hired two guys and Sam Kaigris was excellent and he worked
• 57:32
  basketball and he was here five years. Bud Tye came and he worked football.
• 57:38
  He worked two years and then he went to the NFL. But we
• 57:40
  were able to keep it really going. And the academic thing was one thing
• 57:47
  that I had had my physical therapy education had been a little tougher than anything
• 57:54
  I had had from an athletic training perspective, in that you know, you
• 57:58
  had cadavered out of me. You had been eco physiology, you had courses
• 58:01
  that I thought, if we're going to make this program elite, we've got
• 58:07
  to put some more meat in the academic program. And we did, and
• 58:15
  had had some real battles with at the Med Center to get cadaver anatomy,
• 58:20
  but Bill Douglas helped and we got that and we kept it and stays to
• 58:25
  this day, and we were the first program in the country to have that
• 58:31
  and helped us recruit. Yeah, you wanted people that wanted to see a
• 58:37
  cadaver. I guess I don't know, maybe that says something, but we
• 58:40
  had we had we only took about twelve a year, and so we were
• 58:46
  elite in that guard. So it was good. It was fun. Yeah,
• 58:50
  So I guess that was the proudest thing. But gosh, we still
• 58:53
  have people out there. Last year, last football season, we had three
• 58:57
  head athletic trainers. The NFL twenty two season, I mean Reggie Scott's head
• 59:02
  trainer. They won the Super Bowl. I mean we've had dozens of them.
• 59:07
  Jack Marucci is a grand Jack Marucci of Marucci bat fame, right.
• 59:13
  I mean you met Tom Colt many years ago, right, Yeah. All
• 59:17
  over the world with tennis and the whole thing. It's just like just tons
• 59:21
  and Drew um yeah. Within the NBA has been in the NBA. J
• 59:28
  Smith, Yeah, Casey Smith. I'm sorry, not Drewe Drew Sha who
• 59:31
  we know who was at He was at middle, he was at middle.
• 59:36
  He's at Casey Smith. I put those two together. Drew in, Casey
• 59:38
  leave middle. Yeah, he's out of middle. Yeah. I just someone
• 59:40
  did tell me his daughters a matter of fact, his daughter told me he
• 59:43
  was out of middle. Yeah. Yeah, shout out to middle. Can
• 59:45
  we stay in the middle so long? Yeah? Before yeah you do.
• 59:49
  Yeah, probably have to go. Um So Rich comes in Don leaves.
• 59:57
  There was no culture change then, was there? Oh gosh, you know
• 1:00:04
  Don had signed a You know, it's it always, it's always this way.
• 1:00:09
  I can't believe they signed that guy before. I can't believe they's got
• 1:00:13
  those guys side. Those guys are terrible. It was the same when even
• 1:00:19
  as much as Don respected Frank, he couldn't believe some of the guys Frank
• 1:00:23
  had or some of the guys Frank had went on to support Don get do
• 1:00:27
  very well. Absolutely, but coaches are always like And I remember Rich saying,
• 1:00:31
  uh, or even say who it was it was, if I could
• 1:00:37
  remember his name, Gavin gar in Justice, Yeah, Justice, they were
• 1:00:39
  gar in Justice. I mean he moved about as well as this sign over
• 1:00:45
  there. I mean he couldn't move me. Was you tight hips? Had
• 1:00:47
  bad hips? Bad hips? Yes, you're right, he couldn't bend so
• 1:00:52
  uh. Anyway, Rich said they couldn't believe that he was signed. And
• 1:00:57
  who was the kid from graft An area, Another really big kid, six
• 1:01:00
  seven kid, and he might be the one in Brad's question that would your
• 1:01:07
  question about who might have been really good if they could have stayed on the
• 1:01:09
  field. That was a kid. Uh. But anyway, Don Rich couldn't
• 1:01:15
  believe that some of the guys that Don had signed, and they go on
• 1:01:20
  and some of them played did well, and Garon Justice was an All Big
• 1:01:23
  East player by the time he left. Yeah, made himself a player and
• 1:01:27
  in coaching today, right, absolutely? And Cosey, where is you know?
• 1:01:30
  He's in Miami, in't he smu? Yeah he's in Miami now,
• 1:01:34
  Yeah, yeah, you're right. He has bounced. When did he go
• 1:01:37
  to some past offseason? Yeah? Yeah, he was at UNLV for like
• 1:01:40
  a coffee cup, right, and bounced all over. Let's stay in the
• 1:01:44
  Rich era for a second, because obviously so many great talented players came through
• 1:01:47
  then. So let's go back to practice again. I'm fascinated with the practice,
• 1:01:52
  right. The practice is where the stuff happens. Practice, best battle
• 1:02:00
  in practice that you've seen on the West Virginia practice field that obviously didn't show
• 1:02:06
  up in games because it was it was team on team the best day to
• 1:02:08
  day. You'd go out and say, Okay, they're going at it here.
• 1:02:12
  I'm watching this pac Man Jones versus Chris Henry. Oh that's a good
• 1:02:16
  one. That's a good one. Oh my gosh, so when they draw
• 1:02:21
  up, you guys would stop what you're doing and watch that one. Yeah,
• 1:02:23
  the mure you haven't got done note at that point. And isn't it
• 1:02:29
  amazing? Now Adam pac Man has Chris's um son. I mean he adopted
• 1:02:37
  um right, his son. I guess isn't that amazing? How that?
• 1:02:40
  You know, you talk about a relationship that goes all the way around and
• 1:02:44
  they were just I mean, but you talk about battles and you know,
• 1:02:46
  I mean, Chris has even like seven inches, but you know pac Man's
• 1:02:52
  I mean, he's just maybe the most elite athlete I've ever seen. There
• 1:02:54
  you go, Yeah, I want to talk about him so much on this
• 1:02:58
  program. I often say of all the greats, him returning a kick is
• 1:03:05
  right at the very top of my list of things I would want to watch
• 1:03:07
  again. Where he just fearless take it in, the the athleticism that he
• 1:03:10
  exuded. He could really do anything. Yeah, Boston College wasn't very fond
• 1:03:15
  of that. Yeah, that was one of the all time greats. So
• 1:03:17
  he asked you about major? When did you know about major? Because he
• 1:03:22
  got red shorted. When did you know that Pat White was special? Pat
• 1:03:30
  wasn't Red shirt right, No, well what was Pat White? Pat?
• 1:03:34
  Pat was? Yeah? Pat was? He was Ray schurt and then he
• 1:03:37
  was delayed because Adam Bank was he split time that first year? Yeah?
• 1:03:43
  Yeah, they did. Then got hurt. Pat got in. That was
• 1:03:46
  in? That was it? Did you know? Could you tell? Yeah?
• 1:03:52
  I yeah, Stu god dressed his soul. I thought, when are
• 1:03:57
  you ever gonna play the guy? You know? It's like Stuart was probably
• 1:04:01
  telling Rich the same thing, like, Yo, we gotta go with this
• 1:04:03
  guy, right, we gotta go with this guy. So yeah. Danny
• 1:04:08
  Loman, a mutual friend of ours, was shooting practice at that time,
• 1:04:12
  video every day and he would stand behind the quarterback and lift the camera as
• 1:04:17
  high as he could, like this was before we got fancy with drones and
• 1:04:21
  things like that, and he would hold it because he's athletic. He would
• 1:04:25
  run with the play. So if they ran sideways, he would go.
• 1:04:30
  He'd vertically go sideways because the coaches wanted to see that angle from above.
• 1:04:33
  And he came back from practice and he said, I'm just telling you,
• 1:04:38
  I go what he goes? Just Pat White? I go, yeah,
• 1:04:42
  he goes put it into contact and I go, what what? What?
• 1:04:45
  What? He goes put it in. He said, it's major esque and
• 1:04:50
  I went, what made your ass? Let's Blasphe me how he said,
• 1:04:55
  I'm just telling you this dude is special. And then it wasn't long and
• 1:05:00
  he exploded, Yeah, he was fantastic, super simple, super simple question.
• 1:05:05
  We talk about this a ton when it comes to recruiting. We always
• 1:05:10
  come back to one fundamental. It's always the players, no question. I
• 1:05:15
  mean, you can right, so the old thing, right, Donkeys never
• 1:05:17
  won to Kentucky Derby. And if you want to play at high level elite
• 1:05:23
  ball, you gotta have thoroughbreds. And so you go back and you look
• 1:05:27
  at those thoroughbreds that you had, you know, start picking the eighty eight
• 1:05:30
  team apart, start picking away the Pat White teams and you just go White
• 1:05:35
  Slate and ray Nod just start keep going right, Owen, all those guys
• 1:05:43
  you gotta have. Is that it is that what I mean, all the
• 1:05:45
  thousands of practices you just go like, you gotta have guys. Yeah,
• 1:05:50
  but it also builds though, right, I mean, because go back to
• 1:05:53
  immediately before that, and you've got to Rashid and a Quincy and a Grant
• 1:05:59
  Wiley. Thatge into when you got elite and you guys say always say the
• 1:06:01
  same thing about leading into the eighty eighteen push, right, I mean you're
• 1:06:04
  talking about some guys right there, just a threat. I mean Quincy Wilson's
• 1:06:09
  one of those guys, one of the all time great backs here that we
• 1:06:12
  talk about a lot, but probably not enough because there were so I mean,
• 1:06:15
  go ahead and try and name the best running back to come through here.
• 1:06:17
  Long conversation conversation with my son about this last which which which which sun?
• 1:06:26
  That one that does a basketball thing that Yeah, that son that does
• 1:06:30
  a basketball He loves to get into those conversations. Yeah, and where's he
• 1:06:32
  where's he stand on this? Adrian Morrell? Really, I think that was
• 1:06:40
  the worst red shirt ever that they didn't red shirt him, that he played
• 1:06:45
  about eligibles first year, Well he played the hand. No, they blew
• 1:06:49
  a red shirt on Ah. Yeah, they blew a year. They could
• 1:06:51
  have red shirted him. He should have had a whole other year. But
• 1:06:55
  anyway, that's as we say, So Zach, Zach goes, what do
• 1:06:58
  you talk about a jump cut? Thank, Adrian Morolica? Jump cuts?
• 1:07:02
  Do you remember that? You know you talk about Chuck Hawley being the only
• 1:07:08
  guy I'd ever won MVP and Super Bowl when they lost. But you know,
• 1:07:12
  I just remember Adrian a Haven one hundred and fifty yards. He gets
• 1:07:15
  the Penn State the game. Rodney would have fumbled down there late, gonna
• 1:07:19
  wait room side. Yeah, and uh so we lose that game. We
• 1:07:24
  should have we would have won that game. So he had a buck fifty
• 1:07:26
  and the fifty game. Yeah pretty good. Yeah. But when you look
• 1:07:32
  at Divine and Tavan and Slayton and Avon and Zara Way and Crazy, it's
• 1:07:40
  crazy. It's it was right there. I want to hear something else.
• 1:07:44
  Crazy. You attended during your matriculation of schools Penn. You went to Penn.
• 1:07:49
  I've heard of that place. Yeah, you went to Penn. Yeah,
• 1:07:53
  you walked across the campus every day. And their campus is basically it
• 1:07:58
  shares the Drexel camp. That's that's correct. Your son's now the head basketball
• 1:08:02
  coach at Drexel University. How crazy is that? It's it's it's pretty much.
• 1:08:09
  You know, when he gets named the job, the job, moving
• 1:08:14
  up to the press conference, and uh, I thought, oh this would
• 1:08:18
  be great or be in familiar territory. The only thing I recognized the only
• 1:08:26
  thing was thirtieth Street station, where I took some train into every day.
• 1:08:29
  I used to go there. Here it still looks the same pretty much,
• 1:08:32
  and but every building on the Drexel campus is different. It's don't you know,
• 1:08:39
  you just I was just getting walking up by Ben Franklin Statue. That's
• 1:08:43
  where I was going. I was just cutting a cross and going up there,
• 1:08:45
  and yeah, it's it's really odd to be on the same ground.
• 1:08:51
  But yeah, both of your boys had high level are in the sport world.
• 1:09:00
  So Timmy plays at Purdue, transfers to Washington University, plays there.
• 1:09:08
  Zach Ithaca gets into the coaching world. Greg Marshall Winthrop, John B.
• 1:09:15
  Line here Steve at Cornell becomes the head coach at Army like six seconds before
• 1:09:21
  the regular season began. He takes that thing over, wins more games than
• 1:09:26
  Shashevsky and Night at Army. Now at Drexel a couple of years ago,
• 1:09:29
  gets him into the NC Double A Tournament. I mean, I asked you,
• 1:09:33
  okay, what's your most proud accomplishment. I would imagine as well,
• 1:09:36
  when you look back at it, those may have been like, wows you
• 1:09:42
  look at it? Now I go like this isn't this amazing? You know?
• 1:09:45
  I remember being on the BC football trip and getting a call from Tim
• 1:09:51
  that it made the team as a walk on, right, and I was
• 1:09:59
  kind of floating. Matt Painter at that time is on the team, right,
• 1:10:02
  Yeah, yeah. Matt Painter and Tim remain good friends. Uh every
• 1:10:10
  time they play anywhere near he takes his oldest Cannon's thirteen year old and they
• 1:10:18
  go over to practice or whatever. And uh and of course Zach knows him,
• 1:10:23
  because every coach knows. Everybody's unbelievable, and there's nobody they don't know,
• 1:10:29
  yes, and uh so yeah, but uh yeah, Painter was there.
• 1:10:33
  And Tim always said Matt Painter was as smartest coach Katie, and he
• 1:10:38
  loves coach Katie, but he say he was the smartest basketball player he was
• 1:10:41
  ever around. He just knew, he just knew everything. He got it,
• 1:10:45
  he had it, he had it. And I think his dad was
• 1:10:47
  a coach and something. He just always had a yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 1:10:53
  that was that was good. What haven't we asked you that you prepared
• 1:10:59
  to be asked that you need to get out who is the best player?
• 1:11:02
  I was standing on the sideline for the other team I thought, you guys,
• 1:11:05
  oh that's a guy. Hey, I did think about that. Okay,
• 1:11:09
  best player on the opposing sideline that you watched, all right, this
• 1:11:12
  will be a good one. I don't know how you came up with an
• 1:11:14
  answer on this. Go ahead. Well, I was thinking of it.
• 1:11:17
  Are we looking for the guy that affects every play or so is this?
• 1:11:24
  And that's a position wise, So if you're gonna take the guy that scares
• 1:11:28
  you every offensive play, that's the guy we're looking for. It's gotta be
• 1:11:31
  Doug Flutie. Yeah, you're right. I mean every dag on snap he's
• 1:11:36
  like, oh, where's he gonna go next? And but not not to
• 1:11:44
  say door set who gets the ball most of the time. Anyway, when
• 1:11:46
  they handled him, so it was he was never he's never been hit yet.
• 1:11:55
  Nobody's ever hit the guy. I swear to good is he could be
• 1:11:58
  in a car wreck and not get hit. I mean, it was unbelievable.
• 1:12:00
  It's just he got dragged down. You know. We we thought we
• 1:12:04
  did a great time, great game with him. One time we held him
• 1:12:08
  to one hundred ninety nine yards. That's what we had. Our goal was
• 1:12:13
  to get hold him under two hundred remember that game? Yeah, yeah,
• 1:12:15
  and so we did. We had one hundred ninety nine best environment you ever
• 1:12:23
  remember inside the new stadium. Oh, well, do you mentioned eighty four?
• 1:12:27
  I'd see to me, I think eighty four bcs off the chart,
• 1:12:30
  crazy loud, Where do you think? And there's been so many Well,
• 1:12:34
  isn't it funny that eighty four the Penn State BC games were back to back.
• 1:12:40
  Yes, and throw Syracuse was in the three in that span as well.
• 1:12:44
  Yeah all the score course forgotten about that. Yeah, but uh yeah
• 1:12:47
  those back to back. A daughter, Heather, was babysitting for for Craig
• 1:12:55
  Walker up at Tanglewoods, which is what two blocks from the stadium if that.
• 1:13:00
  Yeah, and I remember her talking about how the house shook, the
• 1:13:02
  windows shook. I like that windows shook. Yeah, of course I asked
• 1:13:08
  her what play it was and she didn't know. But down the distance what
• 1:13:13
  happened was babysitting. Yea, but yeah, that was that was loud butt
• 1:13:21
  Miami ninety three. Oh that was pretty lou Yes, it was Walker Walker
• 1:13:28
  Sideline Walker. Yeah, yeah, those are good ones. Um. So
• 1:13:33
  this does not involve training athletic training, but it is the change of the
• 1:13:40
  game. Just give me some general impressions of the transfer portal. Does it
• 1:13:45
  frighten you because you can't build like you used to be able to build teams
• 1:13:49
  like we mentioned eighty eight team or the eighty eight team. A lot of
• 1:13:53
  those very productive players were on the bench on that BC game in eighty four
• 1:13:58
  as true freshman race shirts, and then eighty five, eighty six, eighty
• 1:14:02
  seven, eighty eight. I'm talking about the Undrew Johnson's of the world.
• 1:14:06
  Many of the guys on that offensive line, they were all true freshmen.
• 1:14:11
  That doesn't happen again ever, because of the portal. Yeah, sure,
• 1:14:16
  yeah, Well, if you want it to be the way it was,
• 1:14:19
  it's not gonna be that way, right, Yeah, it's just not Does
• 1:14:25
  it disappoint you, well, I think yeah it does, just because you're
• 1:14:31
  used to be in another way. I don't I have to just to be
• 1:14:34
  able to enjoy it. I don't enjoy it as much. Each day before
• 1:14:39
  a player would go to practice, you're on the in the room with them
• 1:14:45
  taping ankles, and I would imagine that through the course of years, the
• 1:14:49
  wisdom that you were able to provide them, or building of confidence or hang
• 1:14:56
  in there. I mean those would be some unbelievable conversations through the years.
• 1:15:02
  Yeah, because I think that's what probably one of your greatest strengths positive hanging
• 1:15:09
  there. You become friends with him, Uh, you try to encourage him.
• 1:15:15
  Yeah, I'm gritting because I just so much. You remember Pat McAfee
• 1:15:23
  and how was that? Uh? Pat told me once that he knew he
• 1:15:32
  wasn't gonna live past thirty five, but he was gonna have a great time.
• 1:15:38
  I think he's made that, right, think he's past thirty five,
• 1:15:41
  past that. Yeah, he was an electric wire back then, right,
• 1:15:45
  he was like always popping and having fun. Oh yeah, he was great.
• 1:15:50
  He was great. It's drove Donnie in Well, no, he rich
• 1:15:58
  he's rich. Yeah, yeah, he kind of drove rich crazy. But
• 1:16:03
  I think Rich, I mean Rich obviously a smart guy and knows, okay,
• 1:16:06
  this guy's really good. So yeah, he certainly tolerated him. But
• 1:16:15
  yeah, I don't know. I don't know if McAfee would have come back,
• 1:16:21
  even though he's just a kicker, you don't get they don't usually leave
• 1:16:26
  early. But I don't know if he would have come back. If Richard
• 1:16:29
  had come back, he was happy to be kicking for stud the last year.
• 1:16:33
  Yeah, interesting, quietest locker room before game? You ever remember Penn
• 1:16:39
  State eight. I've heard that dead quiet, Yeah, confident they just knew
• 1:16:50
  it wasn't They were not scared. Everyone not scared. So that's a weird
• 1:16:55
  thing. Like you mentioned Dean Smith earlier, how we talked quiet when a
• 1:16:58
  locker room is like before a game, you go like, whoa antennas go
• 1:17:03
  up? Yeah, you just never know or I never knew, oh whether
• 1:17:11
  it was going to be really uh, it didn't. Are they ready to
• 1:17:16
  play or are they sleep? You know? Or or you never know?
• 1:17:19
  You never know. Is there ever a correlation between practice week and performance or
• 1:17:25
  not? Well, the coaches say there. That's a good question because coaches
• 1:17:28
  always say that, don't they Coaches always say that by that, Yeah,
• 1:17:34
  I think, uh, I think, you know, particularly if there's a
• 1:17:39
  strategy involved, you'd like to know that they understand that defense you've put in.
• 1:17:44
  You know, you'd like to know that they really know what they're doing.
• 1:17:49
  So yeah, I think I buy that a little bit. Okay,
• 1:17:53
  So how about like kind of the opposite of that, the all time shocking
• 1:17:57
  result in a game based on practice and everything leading up to it. Looked
• 1:18:01
  like it was leading the other way. Now I know there's something in the
• 1:18:05
  back of my mind like that situation. I can't remember right now what what
• 1:18:12
  that was. I want to throw one at you. I'll give you the
• 1:18:14
  same one because I think there's one Music City Bowl. Yes, that would
• 1:18:18
  be one. There'd be no reason whatsoever that that team would go out there
• 1:18:21
  and play to win. I would have to say, that is it?
• 1:18:25
  That is it? Coaching change was coming. Oh, staff was leaving.
• 1:18:30
  Still had to play in a game. Bowls had not been kind to West
• 1:18:32
  Virginia for a number of years. We practiced on some high school field over
• 1:18:36
  there was a mess. Uh yeah, it was cold. Hall was a
• 1:18:42
  cold cold. Wait. We didn't even get out of there that next day,
• 1:18:45
  dude, tons of ice? Yea is I told my wife that the
• 1:18:50
  other day. No, we didn't. We were there all day. Yeah,
• 1:18:53
  well we were out exactly a little bit exactly. But what's the number
• 1:18:59
  one? For me? Most all time? Bizarre? That is that?
• 1:19:01
  Is it? Second? That's If that's one, then two has to be
• 1:19:05
  the Fiesta Bowl victory over Oklahoma. Yeah, Oh that's a good one,
• 1:19:11
  those two you know that game. I just I thought we had no chance.
• 1:19:15
  And uh, I just remember the first offensive series, Pat goes for
• 1:19:20
  about forty ups a far sideline. I'm se, holy Macar, can't believe
• 1:19:25
  that. You know, I didn't think we'd have a play like that at
• 1:19:29
  all because I just assumed they could stop anybody. M Then, do you
• 1:19:32
  remember Johnny Dingle, I mean that that All American tackle never blocked him one
• 1:19:41
  time and held him about one hundred and fifty times and still couldn't stop him.
• 1:19:45
  Play had his season right there? Yes, Sam Bradford did not have
• 1:19:49
  a good game and enjoyable game there. They were on him early and often.
• 1:19:55
  Eric Wicks, Yeah, yeah, Top five victory Sugar Bowl over Georgia,
• 1:20:00
  that's one of them. Fiesta. Someone said you called the fake punt
• 1:20:04
  from the sidelines. That's true that you did that. I put down the
• 1:20:06
  top plays ever here. Okay, oh yeah, let's go to maybe the
• 1:20:12
  first guy ever to come as prepared as Spike is well, because most of
• 1:20:15
  the time if anyone does show with notes that we take them away from them
• 1:20:17
  and say you're not using those, No, we'll let you do that.
• 1:20:20
  That's fine. Give me your Yeah. Top plays over two hundred and thirteen
• 1:20:25
  years of Mountaineer football. Give them to me. Wow. I mean you
• 1:20:29
  gotta have Quincy's Miami play. Yes, absolutely, unless you've got to have
• 1:20:34
  grand while he's stopping fourth down and dive over the line. Absolutely Black Blacksburg
• 1:20:41
  on the Weig Night game. That was crazy. Two teammates right there.
• 1:20:45
  Yep, go ahead. And you gotta give it to Rich Rodriguez for calling
• 1:20:47
  a fake punt. I mean that was a great play. I mean,
• 1:20:50
  pure onions bordering um. Yeah, can't now, I'm sure there. I
• 1:20:56
  mean there are a lot of other great I mean then you got the play
• 1:20:59
  major Yeah, yeah, yeah, how can you deny that? So what
• 1:21:05
  do you have? Yeah? What's your favorite running back play? The thing
• 1:21:11
  that kills Quincy's run is you didn't win the game. If you won the
• 1:21:15
  game, then that is like in a museum of its own. That's right.
• 1:21:20
  Conversely, Grant Wiley, right, you're basically you're determining the outcome of
• 1:21:30
  the game. Oh yeah, Phil Brady dom outcome. By the way,
• 1:21:34
  Phil recently texting me he wants to play golf um with someone at either at
• 1:21:41
  Pete Die before the Duquee game. If you remember Pete Die, call me
• 1:21:45
  and we'll get to Phil Brady, the fake pun guy, will be able
• 1:21:47
  to golf with you fair our listeners. I mean, they want to play.
• 1:21:50
  If you want to play with Phil, Phil wants to play for the
• 1:21:54
  ducuee, so he he impacts the outcome because if they get the ball back
• 1:21:58
  as a mountain, as a mountain your fan, you're throwing up. As
• 1:22:01
  a mountaineer fan, you just put the points on the board before their possession
• 1:22:04
  begins. You just give the points. No chance. It's right, exactly,
• 1:22:09
  no chance. So I go Grant and Phil, and then your other
• 1:22:13
  one was major, but major even though that play was unbelievable, it did
• 1:22:18
  not impact the ultimate outcome in the sense that it wasn't a one score game.
• 1:22:26
  Now, don't get me wrong, I'm just saying from the as far
• 1:22:29
  as outcomes go, the Phil Brady and the Grant Wiley, like we're determining
• 1:22:34
  plays, the other ones are certainly long in there. I'm just saying those
• 1:22:36
  are these Go back, go back to Phil Brady for a second, and
• 1:22:41
  your position relative to where Rich was on that call, because I think one
• 1:22:45
  of the one of the great underrated parts of that is there's got to be
• 1:22:50
  some secrecy to the play call because some some teams have sp scouts or spies
• 1:22:57
  watching the other sideline, watching for a change gin demeanor when a potential fake
• 1:23:01
  is on. Right, Yeah, you've heard urban Meyer talk about that,
• 1:23:03
  that he would look over and they'd have somebody watching, and you could tell
• 1:23:06
  when something was a little buzz on the sidelines. People weren't cool. But
• 1:23:10
  how many what was the demeanor in this on the sideline that obviously wasn't known
• 1:23:16
  by very many people. That had to be a select few that knew that
• 1:23:19
  was coming. Well, I heard it when you guys had Phil on the
• 1:23:23
  show, and I thought he said, you know, I'm not sure the
• 1:23:30
  offensive line even knew. You're right, Yeah, you're right. One of
• 1:23:33
  his personal protectors I think didn't know. Yeah, yeah, think about this.
• 1:23:39
  Think about this, Spike. How many great plays did you not see
• 1:23:41
  because your back was to the field. You're treating guys on the sideline and
• 1:23:46
  they're not stopping because Spike can't watch yet, Right, how many times have
• 1:23:50
  you had a roar and then you have to like, yeah, I remember
• 1:23:54
  being at Oklahoma and way back, well it was the host oder game two.
• 1:24:00
  Yeah, and you know that that place roars and you get underneath underneath
• 1:24:05
  those bleachers, talk about roar ohly, Michael. So we've got offensive guard
• 1:24:14
  in there with a sprain and I'm looking at it and trying to do my
• 1:24:17
  whatever I do, and I go back out, and I'm thinking this is
• 1:24:23
  gonna be really I didn't you know, you do look at the scoreboard either,
• 1:24:26
  I don't even know if I want to look. And you look up
• 1:24:28
  and they were only one score ahead. I thought, holy Michael, I
• 1:24:31
  thought we were getting killed. I just thought, of course, that's Oklahoma
• 1:24:35
  fans if they got a first down when they were going crazy. So it
• 1:24:39
  was, yeah, that was something. So what was that? I just
• 1:24:45
  said? I mean, I just those. I mean, I'm totally with
• 1:24:47
  you on all of those. Is there any others that you wrote down on
• 1:24:50
  your list as far as top plays or those four plays? I mean,
• 1:24:53
  I'm totally with you. I just remember, I remember some other great plays
• 1:24:57
  that weren't necessarily determined whether you won the game or not. But I mean,
• 1:25:03
  what's the best pass play you ever? Remember? One of mine was
• 1:25:06
  John Pennington's catch right before halftime. I'm with you. I'm with you on
• 1:25:11
  that one. That was that was BC at BC, which one Eddie Hill.
• 1:25:15
  Yeah, Eddie Hill at BC to win, to go undefeat because of
• 1:25:18
  impact, that has to be waiting. He got hurt on that play too.
• 1:25:21
  Remember look at the film with that. He limps off with the knee
• 1:25:25
  after that. Yeah, he got hurt coming off there. Yeah. Um
• 1:25:30
  don Neelan's game at Rutger. Yeah all right, this was this was the
• 1:25:36
  one to get Bowl eligible to eventually go to the Music City Bowl. Refresh
• 1:25:43
  me. There was craziness there. What was that deal that was? Well?
• 1:25:46
  I own another category. I have a category of pre replay and post
• 1:25:54
  repair hair. It comes old, Phil Braxton. I had uh needed replay
• 1:26:01
  versus glad we didn't never replay categories categories. Yeah, so you know I
• 1:26:11
  had needed to start off more positive. Needed to replay. I think maybe
• 1:26:17
  zero ways fumble against UNC in the Gator Ball percent might have needed that.
• 1:26:24
  That'd be number one on my list. Ninety six Miami punt block. That
• 1:26:27
  was an illegal forward pass after they blocked the punt. That's because they can
• 1:26:32
  score. Ryan Clement was playing with one arm exactly. If you remember,
• 1:26:36
  they don't score that if they're if you down them on the eight, I
• 1:26:39
  contend they don't get into the endzone. Totally agree that was but zero ways
• 1:26:43
  fumbles absolutely on there in that gud But yeah, yeah, Jack Holman from
• 1:26:47
  Miami got the ball involved in that play. They forwarded it, they ford
• 1:26:50
  the ball come back. Yeah, that's Phil Braxton at Rutgers makes a catch
• 1:26:59
  to either send the game into overtime. The ball hit the ground and he
• 1:27:02
  bounced up. Today that would have ruled it as an incomplete pass. You
• 1:27:05
  know, see I don't remember that. Oh yeah, I remember his foot
• 1:27:08
  being out of bounce trap. I remember I see it a trap. I'm
• 1:27:13
  sure you would know I see a trap. I know, I know it
• 1:27:15
  was not in our favor, and that's what I would say. Glad,
• 1:27:19
  no replay? Yeah, yeah him, but I think you know another game
• 1:27:25
  and I'm glad did never replay. Remember the BC game that then Foley was
• 1:27:30
  the quarterback. At the very end of the game, Tim Newsom, Yes,
• 1:27:36
  Tis tackles the guy. I think that would have gone for a score
• 1:27:41
  because that was play the game. Last play of the game. He dragged
• 1:27:44
  face masked him and just brought the and you looked at it. He goes
• 1:27:48
  up the receivers going up, he grabs him by the face mask and just
• 1:27:53
  brings him straight down incomplete bass. Yes, sir, absolutely true. Oh
• 1:28:00
  man, that was absolutely true. He go, I mean it does bounce
• 1:28:02
  him back. But hey, here's a really bad injury. Zach angling the
• 1:28:08
  punter for Fridgeport. That was a bad break we had. We had Tim
• 1:28:17
  Love get a neck injury that game too. Yes, you're right he did.
• 1:28:20
  And Tim Love was playing well at that time. Yep. There's a
• 1:28:25
  guy I thought would have never played. By the end, he was really
• 1:28:27
  good. Yeah, but that's a neck injury. He had to be transport
• 1:28:30
  in the hospital. I had to be in a hospital overnight. And Zach
• 1:28:34
  breaks, He's like a bad break, bad break. So he wasn't on
• 1:28:38
  the kick late in the game. Who kicked? I can't remember, well,
• 1:28:43
  you know what, I'm just thinking of this too, Spike, non
• 1:28:45
  player. But speak about bad, bad, horrible leg injuries. The late
• 1:28:49
  mister Daniels, our equipment truck driver, he took us. He got hit
• 1:28:53
  on the sideline and just really badly damaged his leg. Yeah, he had
• 1:28:57
  a tim Tim tip fracts and which so your lower leg is out to the
• 1:29:03
  side of about sixty degrees and yeah, that was that was really bad.
• 1:29:11
  That was. We had one of those also in a Maryland game with the
• 1:29:15
  guy from the chain crew over at Maryland. It's dangerous, man, I
• 1:29:20
  mean they come in. Yeah, I was really ticked because we had to
• 1:29:25
  take it was on our side. I was their chain grew and they didn't
• 1:29:28
  even come over and see what we're see what we're doing. We're taking care
• 1:29:31
  of the chain crew. Classic Maryland. We got guys getting hurt and we
• 1:29:34
  were taking care of their chain crew. Yeah, classic classic Maryland. So
• 1:29:40
  they had to take him off the field on an an ambulance, you know.
• 1:29:43
  I mean he was hurt. He was hurt, so the same injury.
• 1:29:45
  By the way, Hey, you remember the Maryland game when the student
• 1:29:48
  ran out of the stands and Keith Taparowski, they were in a huddle before
• 1:29:54
  the kids drunk his heck, he runs toward our huddle just before a kickoff.
• 1:29:59
  Taper rouse Ski sees him coming. Taparowski got like one of those old
• 1:30:02
  school La Oakland Raiders, like when the Raiders would put like the full thing.
• 1:30:05
  It was just like a basic He hit that kid, oh number thirty
• 1:30:10
  five, Yeah, yes, he hit him square in the head like that.
• 1:30:15
  My band got knocked out. I thought that was if you didn't treat.
• 1:30:18
  But anyway, fine play and here's another go back. Now I'm gonna
• 1:30:21
  get serious. I always remember you telling me this story. There's a certain
• 1:30:25
  injury that happens in football when a player injures their upper shoulder clavical area.
• 1:30:30
  The bone breaks and it could come across I'm going to do the super general
• 1:30:33
  terms. There could close off the windpipe and you guys have to go out
• 1:30:38
  there. Is that the most besides a neck injury? Is that the most
• 1:30:41
  fearful injury for an athletic trainer. It's a life or death thing. Then
• 1:30:46
  hip hipps no hippa. That's what Nate Darry had the cornerback. Yeah,
• 1:30:56
  ooh, scary as hell when you get out there because they're not breathing.
• 1:30:59
  Way don't know. Well, if they're not breathing, you're totally freaked out.
• 1:31:02
  But if they're struggling to breathe, you're still Yeah. So yeah,
• 1:31:09
  that can be a thing. See that, to me is something that goes
• 1:31:13
  on in these games that people have no real idea. They see a player
• 1:31:17
  get hurt and the athletic trainer makes his way out there and they're kind of
• 1:31:23
  like, Okay, someone's hurt, but your mindset is, I have to
• 1:31:28
  make an instantaneous evaluation of what it is that we're dealing with here, because
• 1:31:32
  not everything is a twisted ankle. And at that point, you literally how
• 1:31:36
  do you treat that. You reach in and you do what to get that
• 1:31:41
  breathing. You make sure they're breathing. First of all, you get your
• 1:31:45
  hand in there, and you make sure you get there and make sure they
• 1:31:47
  are breathing. And then if they're not breathing, you're calling for them.
• 1:31:55
  You're calling for all the help you can get the meantime, and you're getting
• 1:31:58
  them turned over and do whatever. I had an inner mural guy in North
• 1:32:01
  Carolina. In North Carolina, and we took care of inner murals on a
• 1:32:06
  field just up and so one night a week we would do that. I
• 1:32:10
  had two guys ran together, had head and stuff, and I got called
• 1:32:17
  up early, ran up there and he was not breathing, and uh,
• 1:32:26
  as I want to turn him over to start doing CPR. He started breathing.
• 1:32:30
  And so that's just about as close as I've ever I've never had to
• 1:32:34
  do CPR on the field with a player. Right then you have to prepare
• 1:32:40
  them and you know whatever. But we have had cervical spine injuries. I
• 1:32:45
  mean we had you know injuries. They're still breathing, but now you're dealing
• 1:32:49
  with a potential neck injury. You are, and so that's sometimes in practice.
• 1:32:56
  I mean we have gone uh. I remember one time going from the
• 1:33:00
  old stadium with a neck injury and holding guys had stabilized all the way to
• 1:33:09
  the hospital. You're no fun. No, absolutely yeah they did. The
• 1:33:16
  guy did. Okay, You're in just in one of those positions you have
• 1:33:21
  been throughout your career. You're in one of those positions where you say things
• 1:33:29
  to people that you might consider a passing comment that changes their lives. We
• 1:33:34
  talked about this on a recent show, and I think that you have no
• 1:33:40
  idea how many guys you've given a little bounce to because, as you know,
• 1:33:46
  moods and it's up and down and up and down. So I think
• 1:33:51
  like in that regard, both mentally and physically, like you have just saved
• 1:33:59
  and changed people. You'll never know the outcome. But I mean I see
• 1:34:02
  the former players when they when you're around and they talk about you, it's
• 1:34:05
  just like you forgot, like how many times they were hurting and you made
• 1:34:12
  them feel better and like Spike, like Spike save me, Spike, Spike,
• 1:34:16
  Spike save me. It's like that's that's the ultimate. When you're able
• 1:34:19
  to have a life. But then you're able to have a life where you've
• 1:34:23
  touched so many different people and help them. That's it. That's that's the
• 1:34:27
  big win. That's just it's just a blessing. It's just great. It's
• 1:34:31
  I mean, I've received the blessing too. I mean sure, yeah,
• 1:34:35
  it's just uh and and I will not be humble with this. You know,
• 1:34:43
  a lot of those are people who are in a medical profession. A
• 1:34:45
  lot of our athletic trainers out there, people change their career and help them
• 1:34:53
  go a different direction or maybe with with more emphasis in a direction or going
• 1:34:58
  or whatever. I think that's that's been very rewarding. Some of them go
• 1:35:03
  to on the medical school. Some of them we had, you know,
• 1:35:06
  meant several Japanese kids and uh, we had a gal that graduated, uh
• 1:35:14
  Sue Nie. She graduated from here and she went over there working some pro
• 1:35:17
  basketball thing. And you may remember that she brought her player back. We
• 1:35:25
  treated abut one general that it was in about that. Yeah, so that
• 1:35:28
  was quite a complem. I remember a hundred one hundred years ago you went
• 1:35:31
  to Japan and spoke Yeah, what we what were you what was your specialty
• 1:35:36
  there? What were you talking about there? Well, one of our graduates,
• 1:35:39
  MacOda to Shia, uh was from Yamagata Yamagata University, and uh they
• 1:35:45
  were thinking they wanted to do something academically the program. So MacOda got us,
• 1:35:53
  got me hooked up to go over there and speak about athletic sports,
• 1:35:57
  medicine education. Yeah, we made a Yeah, we went a few places.
• 1:36:00
  Not bad. Not bad for a little guy from Brandonville Pike is not
• 1:36:08
  too bad. Yeah, it's not bad. It was a pretty good gig.
• 1:36:11
  We went skiing. Yeah, we did some stuff. Awesome, man,
• 1:36:15
  Yeah it was good. And we went to Kyo, We went toky
• 1:36:19
  We went to all the big ones. How's this retirement thing going better or
• 1:36:25
  worse than my decision or my wife? Better or worse than you thought?
• 1:36:30
  Because you were you were about like you The only time you weren't working was
• 1:36:34
  when you were sleeping, So better than you thought. It would be probably
• 1:36:39
  a whole new world out there where you kind of like yeah, well I
• 1:36:41
  don't have the energy to do well. I mean it happens, which is
• 1:36:45
  not necessarily a bad thing. Yeah, it's it's okay, it's good.
• 1:36:48
  I mean I don't have anything. It's not that I have the energy I
• 1:36:53
  want to be doing something. Yeah, I'm kind of disappointed to myself.
• 1:36:56
  Well you don't do but here's a deal, dude, here's a deal.
• 1:36:59
  You burned it at about one hundred and thirty percent efficiency for like fifty plus
• 1:37:02
  years, Like it's normal now to go like you can't go maxed out like
• 1:37:08
  brand and I are thinking about retiring the next week or so. I might
• 1:37:12
  have already done it. So so we just wanted to do We try to
• 1:37:15
  ask as many people as we can, like, is it as good as
• 1:37:17
  we think it's going to be? Is it? Yeah? It's all two
• 1:37:20
  or three jobs, if you know, if you've got if you know,
• 1:37:24
  if you've got two or three jobs like I did, and like you guys
• 1:37:28
  do you probably got more than that. Uh well, then and you retire.
• 1:37:31
  You just kind of do it in a phase, phase it out,
• 1:37:34
  phase it out. Yeah. I so I yeah, I stopped, you
• 1:37:39
  know, yeah, teaching, and then I stopped eventually stopped football, and
• 1:37:44
  then I've stopped all athletic department there in fifteen, and then I stopped health
• 1:37:49
  works in eighteen, which which you found it found it health work. So
• 1:37:55
  um, okay, So you're telling us to do it in phases. I
• 1:37:58
  think phases a cold turkey. Absolutely, I would do it in phases.
• 1:38:01
  You gotta figure out, first of all, how many jobs you have,
• 1:38:05
  and how many do you have that I don't know, think don't I don't
• 1:38:11
  Well, besides his grub hub delivery or is uber driving, Well, he's
• 1:38:15
  got a lot of well, how many bets he put on grub House that's
• 1:38:18
  got scouting successful? Yes, you got a lot. Yeah, Okay.
• 1:38:26
  What's your biggest loss? Your most painful loss? Football? Obviously that's good.
• 1:38:32
  I mean there's one that one's like the tattoo you know that's just got
• 1:38:38
  that one won't go away. Um, it's a pit gain pit game.
• 1:38:42
  Obviously, Basketball would be an interesting study as to which basketball game hurt.
• 1:38:47
  Well, you know, I'll tell you which basketball got it? B Line
• 1:38:50
  Elite eight, Louisville Lewisville to go to the Final four. That one right
• 1:38:56
  question, that was how we were all there? Yeah, I would say
• 1:39:00
  I've often said about that personally, I thought so selfishly, I thought that
• 1:39:03
  was it. I'd never get to a final four as a member of the
• 1:39:05
  athletic department. Yeah right, So if twenty ten hadn't come along, that
• 1:39:12
  scar from Louisville would would be carry it forever still there getting to a final
• 1:39:17
  four selfishly personally helped. Yeah, yours, you got others, you got
• 1:39:24
  others well, I mean, thirteen to nine hurt so bad that I just
• 1:39:29
  don't even count that. I just that Pig game. But uh, the
• 1:39:35
  Notre Dame lost, if yous to Bowl was it was painful. The Miami
• 1:39:40
  ninety six game here, gosh, I walked. I literally walked home that
• 1:39:45
  night. I did not It was raining too, I didn't even want to
• 1:39:49
  get Maybe it was I didn't want to fight traffic. I don't know.
• 1:39:51
  It was like, you literally walked home. I did. Yeah, But
• 1:39:56
  you know, it's pretty good, pretty good, pretty good. Miami lost
• 1:40:00
  down there. We talked about the Quincy run, that that loss was a
• 1:40:02
  hard one to stomach. Oh yeah, fourth down conversion to Kellen Winslow junior.
• 1:40:06
  It would have meant for that program at that time with Rich that that
• 1:40:11
  one's way up the list. Yeah, it has been. Uh, it's
• 1:40:19
  a great you're a great story. You're a great story. Hey, let
• 1:40:24
  me give you one other crazy thing here, Howard Humble over here, go
• 1:40:27
  ahead, what is it? Meadowlands just crazy situations? No, no,
• 1:40:33
  meadowlands. We get an ACL on the tunnel before the game, before you
• 1:40:40
  get on the field. The Ferry first series, Mike Logan breaks his arm
• 1:40:45
  and the first quarter John Browning hurts his knee. So that's a great start.
• 1:40:49
  Probably weren't gonna beat in Nebraska that but that was that was the day,
• 1:40:54
  handsful early, you could tell good day. And that was also sour
• 1:40:57
  Bruns punt. Oh yeah, that was great. That was so runs one
• 1:41:00
  hundred and seventy seven yard punt in that game and that was heragged about punch.
• 1:41:06
  And that was the national championship Nebraska team. Not then Don did not
• 1:41:12
  want to play that game. And because we were coming off the ninety three
• 1:41:16
  season where we lost so many guys and everybody, Don said, we got
• 1:41:20
  no business playing these guys. Now, this is not good, not good,
• 1:41:27
  and it was he was right, not good. Yeah, pregame injury,
• 1:41:30
  pregame injury. Those are signed. He was bouncing up and down in
• 1:41:33
  the tunnel in his knee pop yeah good and logan tu yeah, well this
• 1:41:43
  is this is fun, buddy. This is a delight for us. That
• 1:41:47
  is from Bobby Bowden to Dana Holgerson and everything in between, from Dean Smith
• 1:41:55
  with a sprinkle of Dean Smith and little Dean Smith in there. It's uh,
• 1:41:59
  this is as they say, what a run, what a run.
• 1:42:01
  But you know, Bill Stewart, you know what a what a experience that
• 1:42:09
  was. That was That was just a great experience. That was absolutely all
• 1:42:15
  right, Spike, thanks so much for being with us. Thank you.
• 1:42:17
  There he is our summer guest, continues mister John Spiker. Three guys before
• 1:42:25
  the game. Time to hit that music. Baboom ba boom ba, boom
• 1:42:28
  ba boom ah. There it is. That's it. Three guys before the
• 1:42:32
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  about these reseats. They gotta. Gomart checked us up on May the eighteenth,
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  Here at three guys before the game, and if you don't have the Gomart
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  Visit Loue Wendell Marine Sales dot com. Tis Pontoon Boats season. We're out
• 1:43:44
  back again sometime next week for our guest John Spiker and the Senator Brett Howard.
• 1:43:50
  Producer Taylor Kennedy also special assistant to the producer. In this episode,
• 1:43:57
  Malachi Ruffin over on the other side of the board. Great potential there with
• 1:44:02
  Malachi, we feel yeah, yeah, first guy we've ever had. They
• 1:44:05
  can go four four forty in the studio or out seeing