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101: Secrets to Successful Leadership & Communication w/ Amy P. Kelly · Harder Than Life

• 0:04
  I'm Kelly Siegel, and this is Harder Than Life, a podcast about self-love, self-awareness, business, and health. We tell outrageous stories and boil everything down to simple, practical advice you can start using today. Let's get living. Welcome to the Harder Than Life podcast. I'm your host, Kelly Siegel, and today we have an incredible guest who truly believes in the power of people and their potential to grow.
• 0:26
  Joining us is Amy P. Kelly, Vice President of Consulting for the John Gordon Companies, co-creator of the Power of Positive Team Training Program, and co-author of Difficult Conversations Don't Have to be Difficult and the Energy Bus Field Guide. Amy is a dynamo in the world of HR and talent development known for building award-winning cultures and leadership programs.
• 0:50
  Her middle name, Pauline, symbolizes the inner power we all have to fulfill our purpose. Today, she'll share her insights from her book and her transformative, You Grow Girl, Women's Retreats. Get ready to be inspired and empowered. Welcome, Amy. Thank you. Sorry for that long introduction, but...
• 1:13
  I met you at an event and we immediately connected. I bought this book. If you guys are watching, it's sitting in front of me, difficult conversations will have to be difficult. I bought it, handed it out to all of my entire staff at National Technology Management. And it led to a difficult conversation that ended up being a separation from some people in my company. And we are now six weeks post that and better off for it. So I thank you. This book is simple and easy to read. I read it in two days and blasted it all over.
• 1:43
  So I'm going to start off with what inspired you to write the book, Difficult Conversations Don't Have to be Difficult. A life of learning, for sure. And the thing that inspired me was while we were working on –
• 1:56
  the power of a positive team kind of training and consulting programs for organizations. One of the catalysts to the book was in the chapter about positive teams are always striving to get better, which is a fundamental of all of us that want to get great and exceptional at what we do in any facet of life or work. I noted that John said, John Gordon, the author of that book,
• 2:26
  I completely agreed. And I said, John, why do we have to call them difficult? And we started to have our own challenging conversations like it's in the book. You know, I already wrote it and it's true. And he's right. It's not that they're not challenging. It was that if we're talking about mindset and we've already labeled something as difficult, we're going to bring that mental posture into the discourse and it's going to affect the communication. Yeah.
• 2:50
  That was a piece of it. And then the other thing was I noticed that in research, it says 70% very well mind quotes this, and I'm happy to share it with the listeners, the research. They talk about 70% of people at work say they completely avoid anything that is hard or difficult when it comes to communication. So think about the impact to innovation, creativity, relationships, engagement. And it fascinates me because I've certainly –
• 3:18
  failed in some of my more important conversations over my career and life. And it's just such fertile ground for people who want to get better. And the book was a way to continue to study and bring that optimization ingredient forward into the work that we do with teams and organizations of all kinds.
• 3:41
  I find that these labels in business, because, you know, I run a multimillion dollar IT firm and we were busy as can be because of cyber attacks rampant everywhere. And our service absolutely guarantees they will not get any cyber issue. So I find when we put these funky labels like you have me thinking about it since the day we met.
• 4:01
  Now that I call it harder than life, it's like, oh, am I automatically making this a stigma? And when we when we label something hard, we make it hard. When you say it's difficult, we make it difficult. It's really just not. It's not that it's difficult. It's just it hasn't been had often enough to be like riding a bike.
• 4:20
  Well, first, you're right. Labels do matter. And there's a lot of research around how we label things that can unintentionally impact our own freedom in things and our communication. So when we label something, we may infringe on our ability to communicate successfully, as well as, again, unintentionally infringe on other people's freedom in the communication. But going back to the name of your...
• 4:46
  of your podcast and of this, the reality is things are hard and we've got to be aware of the mindset even more than the label. It's the mindset that you bring into it. Our words do impact our mindset and what we say and what we do about things and what we
• 5:02
  People say, oh, well, what are you telling us to call them, Amy, if they're not difficult? Because we talk about that in the workshops. We talk about the things that, you know, what would we call them instead? And they said, okay, so if you're saying we call them growth conversations, or even there's a lot of great work on crucial and courageous conversations, does that in and of itself change the outcome?
• 5:24
  No. However, it draws attention to the connection between our mindset and what's going to happen inside the discourse. That's what's important. And so I don't think your listeners come to your podcast thinking that you're saying that it's a as you know, it's a kind of a fortitude of strength about the commitment to the challenges of life.
• 5:54
  serious conversations saying, I have to go have a difficult conversation. Well, that label does matter because those are the ones that going back to where you said, why did you write the book? Those are the missed opportunities that create excellence that we're avoiding. 70% of people avoid it.
• 6:16
  I got to put you in my pocket and carry you around. The way that you articulate things is just beautiful. Guys, if you're not following her, she's on Instagram at Amy P. Kelly, the number one. Amy P. Kelly, number one. And then she's big on LinkedIn, Amy P. Kelly.
• 6:31
  And she's brilliant. This is this. We all need this. If you run a company, I highly recommend buying the book, several of them and giving them to everybody. It is a simple and easy read. If you're not a reader, this is an easy read, guys. I'm a huge reader. I read I've read all of John's books, which, by the way, how how much did he have writing in this book? I know he. So how much did you write? How much did he write?
• 6:57
  Well, it was definitely a partnership, a partnership. And we believe in what he says. I love when he said from no one creates success alone. We all need a team to be successful. And as trite as sometimes that might sound, it's the reality. So I would write something that I thought was, you know, very powerful and he would elevate it and vice versa. And so it was a collaborative effort.
• 7:21
  And, you know, I was even in a workshop with an executive board the other day, and one of the members of the board said, it's really, you know, everything in the book goes the best way it could possibly go. And I said, you're absolutely right. It's not meant to...
• 7:37
  you know, peel back every layer of all the ways this could go wrong. It is meant to ignite the conversation about the importance of conversations. It's a tool to get people talking and to understand. When we talk, you see on my T-shirt, if you're looking, you know,
• 7:54
  Or if you're just listening, my T-shirt has the star three model that's in the book. And the first letter, S, stands for small ego, big mission. And if you can't get beyond the S, you don't even go into the conversation. And that's what I said to this executive team. And what I say to myself all the time is if we haven't put ourselves in a
• 8:13
  posture of not wanting to win the conversation. Most people go in, they want to win the conversation because it's great to win the day, but you don't want to win the conversation. That's not how you elevate results on teams and in organizations and in families and in communities. So you have to ground yourself in that idea of small ego, big mission, be clear on what we're doing together. That matters before you even start the dialogue about it. Um,
• 8:42
  So yes, it's a short story. It's intended to be that way. You can get on a plane. I gave it to someone. We had a long plane ride and he was actually able to finish it on the plane ride. He was excited about listening to what the CEO did with her team and how they overcame some of their own communication challenges that were holding them back from elite performance.
• 9:02
  So don't go into the star method yet because I'm going to ask questions about it. But I want you to see. I don't know if you can see. Oh, maybe you can see it. Look at the notes. Success requires help. I had that note in my I just read that in another book. So I'd spoiler alert because, you know, I read all John's books and I obviously know John and you now and I his last book was the one truth. And you have.
• 9:29
  T plus Ruth are the two main characters in the book and it together. It's a truth. So is it seems like that's kind of the oneness that he was talking about in the one truth. Is that a coincidence or am I just making more of it? No, it's,
• 9:48
  It's really interesting. You brought that up before and I love it because you can even see that this is a really important piece of jewelry that my husband got made to me and it's a circle of unity and there's a circle on the front of one truth. And I think that the reason that I'm so much of a champion and a supporter and an ambassador for John's work is that we have a lot of alignment organically.
• 10:12
  And that truth aspect wasn't related to the one truth. It was because Ruth was a woman that was getting focused on herself.
• 10:28
  And there's actually, for me, there's a biblical connection to the character of Ruth in the Bible. And then needing someone else other than herself, she meets that character, T, and it becomes truth, which is the kernel of a lot of difficult conversations, challenges, in my opinion, and what I've been researching this. What I mean by that is...
• 10:52
  If when I go into teams and companies and I look at the research, when people are asked, what do they want from a team? What do they want from an executive leader? In the top five is always, I want someone who tells me the truth and I want someone who has integrity and does what they say they are going to do. Now, when you ask people, how often do you tell other people the truth?
• 11:12
  It is not 100% of the time. And there are some times when we just need to be quiet and we don't need to say everything that's on our mind. And this juxtaposition of the desire to build trust through truth and the concern that we're going to kind of injure a relationship if we were to tell the truth. That is powerful opportunity.
• 11:39
  Why does that exist? It's because we haven't spent the time building relationships. Because if I were to come to you and tell you the truth, Kelly, after we had a relationship and we were consistently communicating, there would be fertile ground of receptivity for you to potentially hear what I had to say, even if it was challenging for you, even if it was harder than life and vice versa. However, if we don't have a relationship, it is harder for people to share the truth with each other.
• 12:09
  And so going back to why did we write this book? You know, you're saying truth and Ruth. It all goes together with definitely John's other work. The Power of a Positive Team was the book that I got to help write the training program for. And going into my background is more corporate America, but getting to see schools, schools,
• 12:31
  Corporations, elite sports teams and athletes and mental coaches and finding, well, this commonality of wanting to get better together, the thing that existed, that piece of opportunity was tell the truth. How do you have the conversations where you might be holding back on the truth?
• 12:53
  Some people can't handle the truth. That's famous line from the movie. They can't handle the truth. I, you know how many times I've gotten myself in trouble? I can't lie, Amy. I don't know how. And even if I did, I just can't because I couldn't remember it. You know how many times I've got to put my foot in my mouth by just saying, hey, you know what? You're lazy.
• 13:15
  or you don't have what it takes to be successful. And there's some, it's the age old line from Caddyshack, the world needs ditch jiggers too, what the judge said to the, you know, and he's right. I mean, you just, there's no, you have to work your tookus off in this world and you're gonna meet many, many challenges. There's gonna be lots of adversity. And just when you think you've made it, you're gonna get your teeth kicked in and go backwards.
• 13:41
  So I just tell you, since I've done this harder than life, my business has increased tremendously because I just, I spend all the time cultivating a relationship, understanding people, what makes, what's important to them, help them get that. And then we can have these quote unquote, you call them difficult. I love the growth conversation. I've actually been switching them to growth. And really, it's just uncomfortable because they haven't been had enough.
• 14:08
  And to me, if you say them with so much love and so much compassion, you can, I've said this to several people. There's certain people that can tell you to F off and you're going to say thank you. And that's because they said it with so much love and so much compassion that you're listening to them.
• 14:29
  One of my colleagues and friends likes to emphasize this, and I've heard it from other people, but she's a real proponent of this, and her name is Petra Krebs, and she calls them, they don't have to be hard conversations, they're heart conversations.
• 14:46
  And yep, my point is, it's a matter of your heart. And going back to John Gordon, that you will hear me quote him all the time because I absolutely agree with him and I'm just so grateful for his mentorship. When we're having conversations, like you said, you're lazy. OK, well, that's kind of we don't want to call people out. We want to call people up.
• 15:10
  So how do we tell them, you know, which I've had to, I've been on the receiving end of all kinds of feedback, then truth that I did not care for. And I,
• 15:22
  Some of it was the stylistic delivery and some of it was because the heart was not something I could interpret as believing in me and believing in my best. I sensed I was being called out, not called up to greatness. And so you're right about there are people who could tell me that was horrible. It didn't go the way you wanted it to. We need to do this and all kinds of other potential expletives. And I would be fine.
• 15:52
  excited. And there are people that, you know, same, same, same information that would not respond that way. And it does have to do with something that other than the HeartMath Institute and them measuring about feelings and heart math, I don't know how to quantify the fact that we understand that.
• 16:13
  the feelings of someone else's heart. We're not always right, but I know if you care about me and believe in me, I do. You can, we could argue about it all day, but I would just say I would know that and you would know the same thing. So inside those conversations, telling the truth with the heart for someone to be called up is a very different experience than being called out.
• 16:34
  I wrote that down immediately. Heart conversations, call people up. You know what the beauty part about being a podcast host is we get to learn every day. You're going to be episode 101. We're just putting the finishing touches on our 100th episode. We're doing a compilation of a bunch of people. And...
• 16:52
  I get to learn. So this is fantastic stuff, guys. I'm intentionally, usually when I read books, I deep dive into specific things. I'm intentionally not doing this because it's such a quick read. I want everybody to go out and read this, guys. It is so worth it that I'm scooting around the points because the one thing I will say is,
• 17:15
  is that this T character, and I'm not going to say who she is or what or anything, I'm not going to ruin too much of the book because it is such a quick and easy read, that this T who is there to help Ruth, who's the CEO,
• 17:26
  has been there for a long time and she ignored her. And this T knew everything about Ruth and Ruth didn't know anything about it. And all too often that happens. I used to run my company years and years ago. I didn't know any of my employees. Now I know every single one of them, all their kids' names, everything that makes them tick, personally, professionally. I want to know what
• 17:50
  what drives them so I can help them achieve it. So this is a masterclass. I really, really appreciate you. Would you take, and I said, one of my questions was here, a key strategy from the book, but really this star three method is one of the key methods. So would you just enlighten the listeners what it is? Sir, and...
• 18:11
  Yes. So star three, the R, the three is an exponent because there are three R's and the S stands for small ego, big mission. And the reason that's important heading into a conversation is we've touched on it already. When you go in about yourself, people can feel it. It's not going to go well, especially if it's a more challenging conversation and you're not in the right, again, the right posture as a participant in the conversation with an individual or a team.
• 18:41
  Small ego, we is greater than me. It cannot be about me. We are not trying to win. We are trying to work together, we. And it goes back to, there are so many times when, specifically in corporate America, where people will say, I've got to go talk to that person who's not doing da-da-da-da-da. And those things are important. All those things that maybe aren't happening. Right.
• 19:05
  If you stop and you think about, okay, our mission and our vision for this organization is this thing that we're moving toward, this North Star. How does this conversation fit into that context? Not about blaming. It's about attacking the problem, not the person. And so starting with the small ego, big mission, I always tell everyone that's there for a reason, that S. Many times you don't even have to have the conversation.
• 19:34
  Even if this whole book is about difficult conversations don't have to be difficult. I've had multiple clients say, we spent 50% of this workshop before we even got started talking about conversations. It made a huge impression on me. I said, yeah, because a lot of times if it's about you, you may need to have a conversation with yourself first. So the S really stops you and says, is this about we or is this about me?
• 20:02
  And those things are important. Mindset work is what allows us to know and to discern what are the conversations that really have to be had? Because many of them start with, oh, I needed to have a conversation with myself.
• 20:18
  And so starting with the S is about grounding in small ego, big mission. And then the T is that element of truth, you know, tell the truth to get better together. And that is very, it is somewhat scary for people because they feel like they're in a, they're taking a risk. Even though people say they want the truth, it's risky.
• 20:40
  Because many people, like you said, they can't handle the truth, right? And I've been there. I wasn't able to handle the truth a few times. And it still is something that needs to be in the right environment with the right ingredients that we're talking about. But it is the thing that people are asking for. So if you come in with small ego, big mission, and it is about we, and it's not about blame, then telling the truth is not coming from a place of calling someone out.
• 21:07
  It's about that end result. And so when you get to the A, it's something that is a fundamental. And I love fundamentals. I hear on this show you reinforcing fundamentals. They're there for a reason, and it's assuming the best. The A is big. It's assumed the best in people. No matter what the evidence you think you have to the contrary, no matter what they may have done,
• 21:30
  in order to still believe in them, to have them actually have a proper conversation and a team conversation, you have to assume the best. And so then when you get to the R's, the three R's, or the first one is rules of engagement. And so having agreed upon rules of engagement is we sit down with sports teams, corporate teams, you know, education teams and talk about in your particular context, right?
• 21:57
  We acknowledge that there are some things that are specific to the context that teams operate in. What are some things that you would add to rules of engagement? So you know what I can expect from you when we have these conversations, and I know what I can expect, vice versa. And an example of that is John and I agreed one of our rules of engagement was we aren't going to call each other up because this used to happen. And we still laugh about it. He would call up and he would say, we have to have a difficult conversation.
• 22:25
  And I was like, I just want to hang up right now, you know, kind of. I don't want to have what you've already decided this conversation is going to stink. And I'm not sure what's going on. And we laugh about this because it was positive intentions. He wanted to get better together. And I knew that. So we had them many times. But we also have another rule of engagement in our John Gordon companies where we do not have meetings after the meeting.
• 22:50
  So it gives that rules of engagement in the three R's is the opportunity for people to say, in our environment, these are things that are important to us to be successful in our communication. And the final two R's are when it comes to.
• 23:04
  The second one is respect. Respect the person. And the interesting thing about respect is we talk about respecting the team, respecting the process of getting better together because everyone won't always do this perfectly. You won't always have someone who is an artist at conversations. And we need to give them...
• 23:27
  you know, grace and room to grow and respect them. And even talk about what does respect mean to you and what does respect mean to me. But it drives down to the final one. And I love the bookends of the S and the final R because you start with yourself and you examine, is this about me or is this about we? And do we need to have this conversation? And you finish with, remember what matters most, relationships.
• 23:51
  And I used to have some fun with Don because I said, I can't go in and tell these leaders who are having incessant pipeline meetings with stakeholders and shareholders that we've got to be all about relationships. They're not going to want to work with me. I have to talk about EBITDA and bottom line results. And the truth is, no one wants to work with you if you don't have a relationship with them. They don't.
• 24:16
  I would go up against anyone with that. They don't. They're looking for another job. They may be there doing the thing to get paid until they find somewhere where they have a better purpose and a better relationship with their employer. So remember what matters most, relationships.
• 24:33
  Yeah, I had, what's the guy's name, Dropping Bombs, Brad Lee on, and he said, value the relationships, relationship over money all the time. You're going to make money, value the relationship over it. So you went down the mindset work and all too often, you know, I'm of an age now where
• 24:54
  I remember you couldn't, you didn't bring emotions to work. It's leave that stuff at the door. We come in here, we work our nine to five, we grind, grind, grind, grind. And we go back home and no matter what's going on, it doesn't matter. And that's not the case anymore, especially post COVID. So what, how do you, how does the book manage, say, address managing emotions during these discussions, as well as the role of empathy in these conversations? So kind of two questions, but kind of one in the same.
• 25:23
  Yeah, absolutely. It is wonderful. I've had a lot of discussions about this and I'm writing something about this topic right now that I'm super excited about.
• 25:33
  Work is and always has been personal. When people say it's not personal, it's business, baloney, baloney sandwiches. It is always personal if you care about what you do. And the whole COVID has allowed us to not be considered unprofessional if we want to talk more about that relationship. And there's more research to show that work is personal. You can be professional.
• 25:58
  And be personal. Because you talked about emotions. We do need to manage our emotional energy. And there's a great book called The Molecules of Emotion, which we could have a whole different episode about that, so I won't go into it.
• 26:12
  Yes, our emotions are great things and we do need to manage them. They're a part of our commitment. And yes, they shouldn't distract and be destructive, but they're there. And you mentioned the tone of our kind of the way we enter into communication, having an element of empathy.
• 26:31
  That's a key piece of not having emotions escalate. If we don't have empathy, you will have, most of the time, emotions escalate because people don't feel heard, valued. They are not going to feel like they are being listened to. And so emotions become more of a distraction.
• 26:51
  because it's painful. People feel pain when they don't feel valued or heard and to varying degrees, of course. So in the book, we, we mentioned you, you, we started with mindset and our role in managing our emotions, um, in our emotional intelligence as a component of that, some of the things that Ruth does, and we do this and she, she breathes, she has a breathing practice.
• 27:16
  You know, you can use NSR. NSR is notice, shift, rewire. You use mindset techniques to be in a better position, to not have your emotions hijack the conversations and communications.
• 27:31
  in a counterproductive fashion. So if we're coming in with the right mindset, we're less likely to be hijacked and we're also less likely to cause the type of reaction from the other people in the conversation where their emotions escalate in a counterproductive way.
• 27:50
  So we don't go into the mechanics in the book of those things. We, we, we show through the demonstration of what the characters do, some of that. And then John's work is so powerful because of that simplicity. He's taught me so much because if that book had been written just by me, Kelly, it would have been like 6,000 pages.
• 28:11
  And no one wants to read that. And John has taught me that. I'm like, look at all these pages. Look at all this information. And it's all great information. But to start the interaction between someone who wants to grow and develop in a certain area, you don't start with 6,000 pages. You start with an opportunity that's accessible and can be practical.
• 28:32
  So I always say God gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason. We have been told you should listen 70% of the time and talk 30% of the time. And I've been told that in sales, but I believe that to be in anything. So what role does listening play in difficult conversations based on your insights? Completely accurate on your assessment. When we're workshopping through, you notice that
• 28:59
  As Ruth, the main character, shifted from being about me to about we, she started to listen to what was really happening with other people. And this is my ratio. I'm always shooting for 70-30.
• 29:14
  70% listening. And, you know, because, and the only reason it's even 30 is just that to be a productive participant, I feel like there needs to be some engagement. But if it was 90-10, I feel that's a huge victory because it's about the other person and in coming to a place where there is better alignment. And so active listening is,
• 29:35
  since you've mentioned it, not only in the book, but in, I've worked with executives where their goal over a period of three years, their one goal was becoming a better listener. It's a never ending fount of opportunity for people. Because again, it goes back to, we're not there to win the conversation. We're there to nurture the relationship and people want to be heard and understood.
• 30:02
  I'm sure you've been on podcasts where the host talks too much. If you go back to my first podcast, to my now hundredth, I listen a lot more and I let people finish. And I get so excited about life. I don't mean to be that way, but now I just sit, sit back. I was in our quarterly training session, quarterly planning session yesterday. And our implementer says, all right, Kelly, I want you to let everybody talk today. And I said, and he looked at me and goes,
• 30:31
  You were the calmest and kept everybody on because like, it's like roles were reversed. And it's been since I've been really working on listening twice as much as I talk.
• 30:44
  So it's important. Again, God gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason. All right, we're going to get one more question about the book, and then I want to flip to a couple of other things. I just think the world of you, you're brilliant, and I love brilliant minds. So I'm going to pick your brain on some personal stuff. I want to talk into this You Grow Girl thing.
• 31:04
  And then I'm going to highlight again what the star method and the set S are. There was so many actual things you get. People are getting a masterclass of this thing. And remember, you can hire them to come in and train you. There's certifications. I'm going to take it. And I'm always, I'm going to learn it all. Sponge. I want more, more, more, more, more. And those of you that follow me and listen to me, you know that my first personal development book was the energy bus. So John and I.
• 31:29
  you know, becoming friends and friendly is a dream come true. I have access to, you know, one of my very first, you know, the energy bus, it just speaks for itself. It's so good. If you haven't read it. And by the way, I said this before, we need to get a compilation of his best selling books. And I would buy those and hand them, I would hand them out to every single one of my customers.
• 31:52
  Well, just so you know, sorry, Kelly, there are, you know, the box sets now. I love those because there are box sets of John's books that and I know you're talking compilation, but it is nice to give the fables in a set or to give some of the leadership books in a set. They're all related, but it's nice to see that they're what you only get them on Amazon or can we get them on John Gordon dot com?
• 32:15
  We, I don't know. We point people, John often says, he said, you know what? I don't sell my books. That's what my publisher does. And, you know, they're out there, but they are on Amazon. They're in other booksellers and retailers too, but that's where, and also we have quite a few clients that if they're making bulk purchases of things, we have some partnerships that, you know, it's, it's not an official partnership with the John Gordon companies, but some retailers that do work with companies who want to make bulk purchases. Yeah.
• 32:44
  So the last question about the book, and then we're going to flop all over the place. What is one actionable tip from the book for preparing for a difficult conversation? Have the conversation with yourself first. How do you keep from going into a spiral? I will role play that conversation and then just I'll get myself in such a spiral that I'll forget what I was even trying to get accomplished.
• 33:11
  Well, marry that tip that I netted out with the model, and I believe you'll avoid the spiral. So connect the conversation with yourself with walking through the star three model, and that will help you come to a point, an outcome that's tangible and say, I'm stopping there. And that way you're not going to get hooked into that downward spiral approach.
• 33:40
  Yeah, again, to reiterate what star three is, small ego, truth, assume the best in people, rules of engagement, respect the person and relationships. And then she threw in the great nugget, the NSR, notice shift and rewire. Let's just get in a masterclass. I love it. Thank you. You're brilliant. When I met you, it was like, I could talk to you forever. I can learn from you. And I've owned a business for 27 years and I'm learning nonstop. So
• 34:08
  When I met you at Amber Lee's event in in Dallas, one of the books was about this you grow girl. And I somehow it got pulled out of my bag and I didn't get to keep it. And Rachel Luna is like, I got one for you. And then she kept it. So I never got to read it. So what are some of the key themes and topics covered in the you grow grow girl book?
• 34:35
  Well, first, I will definitely make sure to send you a book and a journal. And you can read it and then gift it to someone that you think would benefit. When it comes to You Grow Girl, the subtitle is about plant and pursue the power of you. And there's a structure inside the book called Cultivate. And each chapter in the book and the corresponding journal is...
• 34:57
  goes through that cultivate structure in order to prompt growth. And it's based on myself and the co-author, Julie Nee. We've worked together for almost, well, going on 10 years, but it's in between eight and nine right now.
• 35:13
  and just have a positive passion, kind of like you, you know, we're positively obsessed with growth and development and how that makes lives and the world better. And so the book goes through some of the things, you know, I'm a 50 year old woman, love it and feel super young and, and, and just happy about that. I have twins that are 21. I have a 16 year old son, a 15 year old son, an amazing husband, Jim Kelly. And so what was really cool was I felt like,
• 35:41
  I have learned a bit at this point in my life. You know, I've taken some punches and I've come back every single time, just, you know, harder than life. And we put together some of those lessons learned and into the structure in the book. And then Julie laughs at me, my co-author, but our journal is so intentional because each of the letters, you've got 10 days to consistently put some practices into place.
• 36:07
  So 10 times the nine letters, you've got 90 days, a full quarter of application. And there is definitely plenty of research that says when you consistently apply something for that amount of time, you will see results. And so it's about women's journeys through life and their growth and development. And I am for men equally to women. And many of the stories, too, are about men who've helped me grow in my life and in my work.
• 36:35
  And there are some things that I think, you know, you and John Gordon, just to use them as an example, we're going to have some different conversations than a mom of, you know, four and a woman. And I'm going to have some different conversations with the gals that are going through things that I'm also going through as a woman leader. So it really wanted to bring together that community in a positive way for women and men.
• 37:01
  I love it. I have a 15 year old daughter. So you have four boys. I have a 15 year old. I have three boys, one girl. Oh, did I misunderstood? So it's okay. My twins are boy, girl twins, but it does. You hit the jackpot. So you, you keep your, you've done this so many times that you keep answering the next question I'm about to ask you. I was going to ask you daily practices, but you just nailed it. So, um,
• 37:26
  And by the way, I love here's a cheat code because about 80 percent right now we're men to women. And I got to tell you, men, if you are you want to understand women better, read their stuff. I read Rachel Luna's book, Permission to Offend. I've read every Brene Brown book because I want to know how I can communicate better with women. We're different. We're different.
• 37:51
  Read their stuff. Same thing for Republicans and Democrats not to get in the freaking political rave. We have to know what the other other side thinks so we can relate to them or else you will have a big ego and you will be right against the and against the star. You will have many difficult conversations if you don't do that. For sure.
• 38:13
  And heard it from the beautiful, I can't believe you have two 21-year-olds. That's, I'm sorry, a 21-year-old. That's unbelievable. You look younger than, you look very young. You'll look 21 to be completely boned. I know that sounds funny. But can you explain a particular exercise or chapter from the You Grow Girl book that resonated most with the readers? And I asked this because I didn't get to read it and I apologize.
• 38:41
  That's okay. One of the things that I've seen resonate with, we really are dedicated to all ages and stages. So you mentioned children and having a 15-year-old. My daughter and her twin brother are 21, and my daughter graciously came out and said to me,
• 39:00
  mom, they need a speaker for my women's conference. I said, are you sure you want your mom to come do that? And she was so excited. And it was the first time I realized what I'm about to share with you about your question, because I've seen this resonate in corporate America with groups, with individual executives, you know, C-level women in executive roles, community events. And it's not that complicated.
• 39:25
  But it's a big thing, so I'm going to drop the bombs here. First, we talk about just encouragement and the role of encouragement in life. Encouraging others is kind of level one, right? And we talk about this in the book and in the journal. What kind of encouragement can you give today? The next level two is receiving encouragement.
• 39:47
  Being gracious and prepared. If you were to say, hey, Amy Kelly, you know, I really do like your book, Difficult Conversations Don't Have to be Difficult. Guess what? I'm going to plant my feet and I'm going to say thank you.
• 40:00
  I'm not going to say it was all John Gordon, even though it was a team effort. But my point is, I'm not going to diminish that. I'm going to receive it with strength because it gives other people the ability to receive encouragement as well. And then level three is one of the other things we say, okay, you know what? You're giving encouragement. You're receiving it. You're well, guess what? The example here is my son, Samuel.
• 40:26
  He was at my friend's house and I went to pick him up because she was watching him. And my friend came out. She was very excited. And she said, Amy, you're not going to believe your son is so amazing. And I said, okay, I thought you were going to tell me that something else because he was usually causing problems.
• 40:42
  And she said, no, he did the project that we were working on. And then he was tapping me and he said, hey, Kendall, say Sammy, good job. Say Sammy, good job. And the third level of encouragement that we practice is asking for it.
• 40:59
  There is nothing wrong with saying, hey, Kelly, you know what? Today, I'm not doing so great. And I need a little bit of your encouragement to remind me about what we're doing or what I'm doing. I don't want to go to the gym or I don't want to go to work. Can you encourage me?
• 41:15
  Don't just depend on yourself. Practice asking for encouragement too. That is so strong. And so that's level three. And we have different affirmations in the journal. We have different places to practice gratitude. We even have coloring because there are coloring pages because that's a wellness practice that is well documented.
• 41:45
  We've got to ask for it too. Give, receive, ask. I got to tell you what, I just, I'm going to ramble for a second because my mind works in this weird zigzaggy way. So what I'm, I can't believe we talked to all this time. We haven't talked about vulnerability because that's kind of where we're getting at. We talked with, you got to tell the truth and keep your word to yourself and everybody else.
• 42:09
  to develop this relationship, this closeness that then you allow to be vulnerable and have these and it's, you're on this circle of vulnerability truth that just, once you get on it, it's hard to get off, but it's hard to get on that darn thing because we all are taught to hold our emotions in. So, yeah.
• 42:32
  My takeaway from this is follow these methods. And it's always, who says this? Seek to be interested than interesting every time. And you will be better off. And then listen, and you're gonna be really, really well. And not all of us are as brilliant as Amy. And I just, you guys get a masterclass today. This is, if you run a company, or you don't run a company, you're a company of one, yourself.
• 42:59
  Use these methods, people. This is good stuff. Buy this book, read it, and implement the vulnerability and the trust that Ruth gets away from. And I would like to point out, this doesn't happen overnight. Ruth was a good person, built her way up, and then just over time, you forget.
• 43:22
  I don't know if it's in here anyway. We got to remember to have fun, be happy and be present. I forget that all the time. And I will tell you the number one thing I still struggle to this day receiving. Still struggle. Yeah. And I love that you brought up vulnerability. My sharing around that is that.
• 43:45
  trust and vulnerability are inextricably linked. Like they are so linked. And it goes along with truth. When you tell the truth, you are inherently vulnerable.
• 43:58
  And so you're developing your vulnerability through sharing the truth. And the S and the T in the model help you get into more of a comfort zone with vulnerability because you're shifting from it's not about me, it's about we. And that humility leads to vulnerability. Right.
• 44:20
  And you're right. It takes practice. But another great thing that you said is once you unlock that, it's profoundly transformational and it just becomes more a part of who you are. At the end, when you were talking about the book, there are
• 44:40
  resources, even if we weren't to work together, which of course I would love to work with teams and organizations. There are, if you do get the book, there's a free action plan and there's also a T4 template. In the book, Ruth and the characters at the end decide to take some action on what they're going to do next. And they implement this thing we call the T4 action plan. And it's got truth, transparency, time, and then ultimately transformation.
• 45:09
  And if people are interested in doing that, when you buy the book, you can go to difficultconversationsbook.com and you're able to download those resources so that you could work on the application yourself.
• 45:23
  And in the back, it has the star model and a summary. This book is great, guys. If you're watching this on YouTube, you seem to have it up. It's a nice blue book. And like I told you, and I showed her, I bought several of these and handed them out. And I do that a lot. So I want to also give you a little praise before we hit record.
• 45:41
  You said that some great news that your publisher is going to put these books into bookstores. And one of the coolest things in the world as an author is to walk into a bookstore and see your book. So we share with the readers of all. How did that feel?
• 45:55
  Well, I go back to it is a men's gratitude. Just simply put, I mean, I was rejoicing and I let myself rejoice in the moment. It's really interesting and fun. And, you know, I actually said I talked about it to the gentleman that was sitting next to me on the plane. And I said, I'm celebrating. Are you interested?
• 46:15
  And why? His name was Brandon. And he said, sure. And we ended up having an amazing conversation. But it's fantastic. And it just goes to show you that, you know, John's generosity to partner on the mission of building positive leaders and teams who positively impact others and create a more positive world.
• 46:37
  May we all get to give each other the opportunity to feel that joy. I had profound joy. It was really cool. And I soaked it in. Earlier in my life, I probably would have tried to pretend like it wasn't a big deal. As embarrassed as I am to say that. But I was happy to humbly accept a really great moment.
• 46:58
  I'm extremely proud of you. And one more thing is you just touched on it. We never talked about was pay it forward. We were talking about John before and, you know, John Maxwell before him and Ed Milat before everybody pays it forward. And John is a patriarch of that and an example of that. And I've reached out to him for several things and he's always said.
• 47:19
  gracious to get back as busy as he is. So you've hooked on with a great mentor, a great partner, a great person. The entire family is fantastic. And we're going to switch into some personal stuff because I want to get to know you because, you know, even all the people in that room, I beelined it to you. I want to know who you are. So and you are as advertised. So thank you.
• 47:44
  Let's ask you some – I got a couple personal questions, and then we'll wrap this thing up. What is your favorite way to unwind after a long day? I like to play games with my family. We play – my husband and I enjoy almost any game, including Yahtzee, which my children will not play. They're like, I don't understand the point of that game. It's just – it's a great game. It's just for fun. But we play Ticket to Ride. We play Scrabble, and we play Uno, and just –
• 48:12
  I love the element of watching people and kind of interpreting their strategy about how they play games. It's so fun because their personality comes out. And especially having four children, my husband and I really enjoy seeing that element of the interaction. So that's one of my ways to unwind. I think every kid should have to play Scrabble so they can expand their mind, especially with the advent of all these devices nowadays. We just we've lost that.
• 48:40
  art of deductively reasoning and thinking and critical thinking and just just deep thinking with with difficult conversations right it's all through the phone all right this is a favorite that I ask everybody if you could have dinner with one historical figure and it could be any famous figure historical living or dead who would it be and why
• 49:02
  I knew this was coming and I wanted to give you something maybe, you know, that would be, oh, that's, I've never heard that before. I would just say I would definitely break bread with Jesus. That's who I would want to break bread with. And why? Because, I mean, for me, he's my Lord and Savior and I think that will be phenomenal. The list is pretty long and so I only get one. That's where I get to, that's what I would say.
• 49:26
  That's the most common one. And it's, it's, it's a good one. It's, you know, John is grew up Jewish. You know, I'm Jewish. So at the end of the day, the last supper, I would have been a great conversation to have. So, you know, tell me about your life. Anyways, that's a good, that's a good one. Thank you. Being in the upper room was an interesting place to be. I'm sure. What's a surprising fact about you that most people don't know?
• 49:53
  You know, one of those things is just, I'm 5'11", and that is obviously evident when you meet me, you know, your height. The, how hard that was as a girl being 5'11", by the time I was 12, it really was not a fun thing for me. Like, I was very devastated by being called Big Bird and Ostrich and Amazon, and, um...
• 50:19
  But it started what we're talking about today. That's why I bring it up is I don't belabor that, but it helps me understand that different things are always strengths. Is that how you became so extremely brilliant and articulate? I mean, I find you there's a whole other podcast that we're going to have another time on that. But is did you was your coping mechanisms, the books?
• 50:47
  I don't know that it was, maybe that's something that I'm not fully in touch with, that it was coping. I definitely loved books and my mom instilled that in me. We read together and we colored pictures about the stories from when I was younger and certainly appreciated the ability to transport yourself to anywhere and anything through books and
• 51:09
  Um, my coping mess method, unfortunately was to lash out at people who hurt me. And I had to learn super hard lessons because, um, you know, early in life, I, my mom would say, you know, so-and-so said, you said that. And I said, I did.
• 51:26
  She was like, I can't believe you said that to them. And I said, well, they hurt my feelings. And I just would unload, you know, unload the worst thing I could think of to say back to them. And I saw how destructive that was. So you can see the connection to difficult conversations. But my coping mechanism was more to melt down and try to hurt people back, which, ugh.
• 51:45
  Not five foot eleven. You were probably a little bit scary to them. Jeez, I was I was called Smurf. I was the opposite. I was teeny tiny. Now I'm the biggest guy in the room and it creates it creates a conversation. So I love that. So thank you for sharing that. And I find you incredibly magnetic and positive and loving. And I feel loving energy, especially when you get with your partner, Julie. She is the two of you. When you went on stage, you could feel it.
• 52:13
  So do more of that. I want, I want access to more of you guys. So if, if anybody has a chance to see them on stage, do it. All right. This is going to be a tough question because we have books. What book has been the, had the most impact on your life other than any of John's?
• 52:30
  Well, because of the comment that I already made about who I wanted to have supper with, and I would say the Bible. And what I'll tell you is when I read Les Trangers by Albert Camus, it's The Stranger. And it's an existentialist kind of book. And I realized early on, you know, because it was very tempting to buy into what I don't really consider a positive philosophy. Yeah.
• 52:56
  At this point, existentialism, I'm not, I don't, we don't want to go deep into this. And so all the existentialists out there, I'm not criticizing you. I'm just saying that book, while it was beautiful in some very disturbing ways, it made me realize the power of communication and to use it for good.
• 53:16
  I think it was John that said this. I don't know. It's when you're in the personal development space, everybody is positivity doesn't guarantee success, but negativity guarantees you won't take it. So it is John. I mean, he has, I love John's,
• 53:37
  Just his quotes, because I've seen I've had the honor of delivering his work many times at this point. And I love to see that is one that people that resonates with people and also where there's a void in communication, negativity will fill it.
• 53:53
  Boom. I'd like to end it right there, but I have two more questions. Oh God. I love that one. By the way, if you could travel anywhere in the world right now, where would it be? Where would you go and why? Or what's next on the, on the travel list with, with Jim Kelly? Well, Jim Kelly and I have our 25th wedding anniversary next year. And he, you know, I'm looking around. I don't think he can hear me at it.
• 54:18
  My dream and my plan is to take him to Ireland. His whole family is Irish until this Lithuanian and Swedish lady came into the picture. And my son, I want to go to Ireland with him. It's not officially planned yet, but it's definitely, I've written it down and I've taken some steps toward that.
• 54:38
  That is beautiful. You're beautiful. Guys, go out and buy the book. Follow Amy P. Kelly. It's people doing these good things, spreading this positive mental attitude out there over and over and over. The book is simple and easy to read. Order it on Amazon. Order several copies. Give one to a friend. If you guys look over my shoulder, I always have the four agreements. That's one of my go-tos along with the energy bus. And this is a new staple to it. Is there anything that I haven't asked you that you feel compelled to share?
• 55:05
  What I would like to share is just to reiterate what you said earlier about the potential when we listen to men having conversations that are important to them and women having conversations that are important to them, how much can be learned on both sides. It goes back to the whole point of us dialoguing around difficult conversations don't have to be difficult.
• 55:27
  But seeking out, you know, Thomas Williams, who is one of the other speakers, an ex NFL player, an amazing businessman. He talks about running towards the roar. I think you've other people do. I think you even have said that. And with conversations, too.
• 55:44
  Run toward that material that maybe isn't something about you, right? To better understand other people. And just emphasizing that would be my final comment. Run toward that information and let it help transform how you interact with others. I would love to go to Ireland with you and have a beer and relax and listen to you talk for hours. Your brilliance, your beauty.
• 56:09
  It transcends everything. Thank you for spending this time with me. And thank you listeners. You're going to be episode 101. We're blowing up. We're headed to number one on the Apple self-improvement podcast on the list and as well as the education. So you're going to help us get there. I appreciate you. I can't wait to see you in November. I will see you in person again. And hopefully I'll be taking that training soon. Thanks for being on. Thank you, Kelly.
• 56:36
  Please rate and share this podcast. I'm active on all social platforms and love to hear from my Segal supporters. Each and every episode is sponsored by my company, National Technology Management, the easiest and best IT company to do business with, delivering peace of mind with technology every day, even simplifying cybersecurity. Visit TrustNTM.com for more info. Until next week, be harder than life.